QuoteFlowing strong
Downtown retail surge brings more investors
Jacksonville Business Journal - July 6, 2007
by Christian ConteStaff Writer
JACKSONVILLE -- Jacksonville firefighter Mike Maloney couldn't think of a better place to launch his new pizzeria than Downtown Jacksonville.
He and his two firefighter/pizzeria partners, Jacksonville firefighter Capt. Jason Tidwell and former New Jersey firefighter Nick Delcalzo, are among a growing number of retailers and restaurateurs who are choosing Downtown over other parts of the city.
"We think it's going to be a prime location," the New Jersey transplant said of Jacksonville's core, "and so we wanted to get a prime spot while it's still cheap."
About 670,818 square feet of space is devoted to retail Downtown, according to the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission Downtown Retail Taskforce. An additional 57,300 square feet is under construction and 573,165 square feet is proposed. Construction of the proposed space would increase retail space Downtown by 85 percent.
Maloney hopes to open Nicky G's Brick Oven Pizza in a 4,000-square-foot space at 119 E. Bay St. by August. He intends to target Downtown workers during weekdays, families in the evenings and Downtown bar patrons on weekends.
Although it was once the department store center of Jacksonville, most retailers retreated from Downtown until the conversion of two historic buildings to apartments and the construction of four new residential projects since the early 2000s that added Downtown residents to the market.
Retail growth Downtown has been slower until this year when a credit union, a book store, a hair salon retail shop and two art galleries opened and one relocated. Five restaurants or coffee shops also opened and several existing restaurants extended their hours.
Tastings, a Wine Experience opened June 1 at 1515 Prudential Drive. In its first month of business, franchisees Peter and Elizabeth Miller doubled their expected revenue at the automated self-service wine bar by earning more than $62,000.
"Our business has been phenomenal," Peter Miller said. "I just think Jacksonville is one of the underrated cities in the country."
full article: http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2007/07/09/story2.html (http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2007/07/09/story2.html)
Its great that Doug reads the site. Maybe you should ask if he would like to advertise to help ensure that we remain a daily source of entertainment for him and his buddies?
QuoteAnd you and your bloggers are considered a joke by every successful businessperson in downtown that I have ever encountered.
Mark Rimmer doesn't like us for obvious reasons and the Jax Daily Record is just pissed off that more people read this site than their paper. :P
and clearly mean-spirited discussion, like those above, will continue to increase the "power" and respectability of this website!
I don't know Doug personally and I have nothing against him. If he wishes to advertise, even if it's for his enjoyment, I don't have a problem with it.
QuoteStephendare: Sadly my faith needs strengthening before I will be able to do this.
Don't we all. :)
I wouldn't go out on the limb and say what needs to change has been implemented. Relaxing the parking ordinance was a start, but if you really want to see the retail environment bloom there's still more that needs to be done. Installation of smart meters, parking garage signage and pedestrian/vehicular wayfaring signage and keeping BRT off downtown's main streets remain at the top of that list. With Suzanne Jenkins gone, that means we're going to have to explain from the beginning to Redman, why these things are important.
Here's a few...
Efficient permitting.
Less task forces, consultants, study groups, etc. more action.
better public park and open space maintenance.
Better utilization of existing mass transit options.
Embrace the concept of clustering and connectivity.
Enforce the 2000 Downtown Master Plan recommendations on zoning/site layouts,etc.
Better public coordination (The JEDC, DVI, JTA, Council, Mayor's Office, etc. should talk to each other about their plans and visions for the downtown core to make sure all developments complement each other).
The creation of a public agency who's purpose is to recruit business to the core only (similar to a mall's management office).
I'm sympathetic to all human conditions, but isn't there already a homeless shelter (IMSulzbacher)? Whoops, if I'm mistaken. Do we really need another one downtown, if I'm not?
I think that is his point.
That would be nice since the council may consider getting rid of them altogether.
I'm shocked......I thought the Downtown burned down years ago.
1901, 1902, are you telling me they're thinking about rebuilding it.
They should start rebuilding near the river.
That would be a perfect place to put the jail, courthouse and parking.
Oh boy. we have our very own troll!!!
What was the point of resurrecting this 5yo post, SD?
he's just trying to put digs on on certain posters (in this case, me)....but considering all of the new small busisnesses that have opened at the Landing and other downtown spots lately, it has very little value.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 15, 2012, 08:00:41 AM
he's just trying to put digs on on certain posters (in this case, me)....but considering all of the new small busisnesses that have opened at the Landing and other downtown spots lately, it has very little value.
What new small businesses? How about a list?
Is there a retail surge? Can someone put together a list of retailers in general downtown, as well as their websites. Add to that restaurants that don't include fast food or fast casual chains. Add to that galleries.
My thoughts and observations are that generally:
1) In Sunbelt CBDs residents and businesses come first, maybe some students.
2) Then come some support businesses like a pharmacy, an office supply store, some coffee shops, an urban grocer, some breakfast places, maybe a college book store that can serve the community, too.
3) Then as more residents come and downtown becomes more active and more on people's radar, a SLEW of restaurants open up. I feel like restaurants always precede retail. Add bars and clubs to this, as well.
4) Then finally with more residents and tourists the only missing ingredient is retail, but it's hard for people to make a transition from shopping in the burbs/neighborhoods to shopping downtown again. No city in the sunbelt really has "shopping" in a CBD yet.
Galleries follow 2 things it seems: the money (they need the wealthy to come in and buy art) and the hip art oriented areas, whether it's downtown or not.
Simms, hold off a brief moment and let him answer the question. These claims of downtown's retail meccadom by Tufsu often turn out to be hilarious. The last time we got into a debate over how downtown had scores of thriving restaurants, we asked him to back it up, and he posted a list that included the Winn Dixie and a convenience store as 'dining options.'
We don't want to interrupt the fun...
You couldn't call it a surge but 2 7elevens, dollar store, McDonalds are positive signs. Businesses that might consider SJTC won't be opening DT anytime soon.
^^^Meh, those don't mean anything. 7 Elevens are convenient stores that set up anywhere and everywhere they can. Convenient stores are useful, but they are like weeds and can survive literally anywhere.
McDonald's does not serve your typical downtown office worker or your typical downtown resident. I won't comment on who might be a typical customer of a McDonalds (is it standalone with a drive through or at the base of a building?).
Dollar store - again it's not like your downtown office workers and residents will be using it. No comment there either.
Stephen is right - it's pretty amazing, perhaps a unique fact, but downtown Jacksonville does not have a Starbucks. Starbucks is the convenient store of coffee shops...it can survive anywhere with ok fundamentals. Not that I'm a huge Starbucks fan, but it's amazing there isn't one in DT Jax and I think it speaks volumes to that submarket.
^^^Those Google searches are highly inaccurate, too. I just did a similar search "Starbuck Downtown Atlanta" and only half of the Starbucks showed up. There are 6 between DT and Midtown (4 in Midtown alone, 2 within 2 blocks of me and 2 more both 8-9 blocks down).
Of course there are 2 on Georgia Tech's campus - that helps (but one is in Tech Square in the heart of Midtown on 5th). 1 is in a mixed-use development along 14th called Colony Square (accessible from street). 1 is standalone with outdoor seating along 14th. 1 is on Peachtree, also with outdoor seating and is open and packed really late each night (it serves as its own activity center on that corner). I don't live DT so I don't know the dynamics of those, but every Starbucks in Midtown has outdoor seating, putting people on the sidewalks 7 days a week, and nearly 24 hours a day in the case of one.
The bulk of independent shops are in surrounding neighborhoods leaving the corporate places like Starbucks to be DT/MT where they pay $40-$50++ rent.
In DT Nashville there is Dunn Bros, Portland Brew, Ugly Muggs, Frothy Monkey, and other independent coffee shops in addition to a couple of Starbucks. Unfortunately most are not open past 7 or 8, but Nashville is getting there.
If there are no Starbucks in DT Jax, where do people get their coffee? Are there some good independent shops?
Here's a partial list.....of just those shops that have opened in recent months at the Landing
Lilie's Boutique
Ocean Water Bath + Gifts
River City Gourmet
Sub Culture
Cherish Couture
Pink Cupcake
AJ Reese
Karma Bazma
Aly Cat
And from what I understand, there's a 10th new shop opening very soon!
Wait a minute TUFSU there is nothing Downtown and no one wants to go there. I guess all those little shops I have seen opening at the Landing are imaginery. There is nothing there. Move on to the town center! And who the hell needs Starbucks for coffee? Chamblins is just fine.
And there are now nearly 20 night spots in downtown (including dining establishments)....many of them are new and small businesses
Considering the markup on Starbucks coffee and free rent, it's pretty amazing they didn't even stay three years at 11 E.
QuoteNo city in the sunbelt really has "shopping" in a CBD yet
While true for the most part, Charleston SC is a exception.
Quote from: vicupstate on July 15, 2012, 05:26:49 PM
Considering the markup on Starbucks coffee and free rent, it's pretty amazing they didn't even stay three years at 11 E.
it had more to do with the corporate downsizing of a few years ago (600 stores if I remember correctly) than the local store itself.
now the same can't be said about the Landing store which closed last year
^^^Like any downsizing company they shuttered poor performing locations. Starbucks has thousands of locations it kept, and it kept the strongest. The two in downtown Jacksonville obviously were in the bottom 600ish or so in terms of profit. I doubt rent was exorbitantly high (in fact it appears it was % rent at 11 East), so volume must have been very low at both locations.
That's simply a reflection of downtown if the city's most concentrated area of employment and residents within walking distance can't support the world's most popular coffee shop. That's what it boils down to, so stores at the Landing or not I agree with Stephen that there are fundamental problems downtown that need to be corrected.
And wasn't there a signage effort for the Starbucks at 11 E? I remember it had signage, but I seem to vaguely remember they had to go through Herculean efforts to get it and it was discussed on this board...
Actually Starbucks primarily closed stores that had been open less than 2 years
^^^You are correct. They closed stores that they opened in a time of massive risky expansion, so they were still underperforming stores. I don't think the Starbucks in the Landing was a young store, but it still ended up closing last year.
Still, as Stephen reports Starbucks wasn't paying anything to be at 11 East and it probably did not put a lot of money into the buildout, so it sounds as if the sales volume wasn't even enough to cover operating expenditures.
Just thinking logic here - Starbucks essentially had to buy out remaining term for the 600 stores it closed, so it had to weigh which stores it should close by comparing cost to close the store and cost to keep it open. In the case of 11 East it sounds like it was cost to close = $0, CF if keeping it open = -$x.
Ah man, that trip to Margaret Street, and Riverside is an arduous journey; It seems like forever to get there; By time I get to DT, in a car (which most caffeine addicted yuppies have BTW) or maybe even the bus trolley my Starbucks Coffee will be ice cold. ::)
Since when did Starbucks Coffee become the benchmark of a successful DT? That what be like arguing that Wal-Mart is the benchmark for a successful city hell, I'll pick that before overpriced yuppie and hipster laden Starbucks. They tried at 11 East, and it failed, whatdaya want?
Starbucks or lack thereof isn't a benchmark, but rather a vital sign - and that vital sign does not have a pulse. Ask yourself this - why would Starbucks keep a location in 5 Points, but not in the middle of the city's most concentrated and 2nd largest office market?
10 million people a year visit SJTC. 6 million a year pass through JIA. If only 25,000 people are employed in the CBD (Northbank), and they show up to work 250 days a year, that's 6,250,000 potential "customers", not including visitors and tourists. SJTC has several Starbucks. JIA has 1, I think it had 2 at one point. Downtown has 0. There is definitely something wrong when Starbucks doesn't want to open a coffee shop in your downtown, and the reason is not because of a plethora of competing Caribou Coffees (which would still spur them to open to give people options).
Similarly:
One of the city's few landmarks and last vestiges of history is gone, and potentially due to a misappropriation of city funds. YET, there is not a peep on this nor a public outcry over the missing money and the missing landmark. I'm talking the G&C Clock, and the vital sign is the public concern - there is no pulse again. (had the potential misappropriation held up a desired road project there would be news story after news story)
Similarly:
If the city even hints at throwing money at downtown improvements, such as the Northbank Riverwalk, there is public backlash. This is a vital sign reading the temperature of the people, and instead of being 98 degrees, their temperature is 89 degrees, completely backwards. The people should be running a fever to get this city back on track.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 15, 2012, 07:57:10 PM
Actually Starbucks primarily closed stores that had been open less than 2 years
Anither po-Tuf-kin village, when did the landing Starbucks open?
The Landing Starbucks was there for at least 10 years.
http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/food-and-dining/2011-03-18/story/starbucks-close-jacksonville-landing
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 16, 2012, 07:57:47 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 15, 2012, 07:57:10 PM
Actually Starbucks primarily closed stores that had been open less than 2 years
Anither po-Tuf-kin village, when did the landing Starbucks open?
how about you stop putting in digs for a minute and look at my earlier post, where I noted that the Landing Starbucks was not closed because of corporate downsizing, but because of slow sales at the store itself....as for when the store at the Landing opened, I believe Lake has answered that question.
I was not making any digs regarding the Starbucks issue. I was just noting that one store closed as part of corporate downsizing, while the other was closed because of poor performance of the local store itself.
I was also asked earlier in the thread to provide a listing of new small businesses that had recently opened downtown...so I did just that.
I am really sorry that you continually misunderstand or misinterpret things I say. And yes, I do feel that I have been and continue to be a strong advocate for making downtown a better place.
FFS, there is a stinking Starbucks in Julington Creek.
I do miss Caribou Coffee though, preferred that when I wanted to treat myself.
FWIW, even Macclenny Florida has a (rather busy) Starbucks now, I sometimes stop there in the mornings on the way to the courthouse over there.
What's the population of Macclenny again?
7eleven, dollar store and McDonald's will serve wokers and residents DT same as they would anywhere and arguably better than what they're replacing. That's positive.
Several of the largest office buildings within a block or two of the Starbucks at the Landing, whose workers could have supported the Starbucks, have coffee shops in the building. Speaking only for myself, if I wanted to buy an over-priced cuppa Joe, I spent my money at the coffee shop in BoA Tower instead of walking the block to the Landing. I know, it's only a block, but it's farther than in your own building.
Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.
Quote from: fsujax on July 17, 2012, 01:16:05 PM
Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.
I would hardly call downtown Macclenny much of a "downtown," period. But how does that change the fact that Macclenny Florida can support a starbucks and downtown Jacksonville obviously cannot?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 17, 2012, 03:03:01 PM
Quote from: fsujax on July 17, 2012, 01:16:05 PM
Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.
I would hardly call downtown Macclenny much of a "downtown," period. But how does that change the fact that Macclenny Florida can support a starbucks and downtown Jacksonville obviously cannot?
Well, 'Jacksonville' has plenty of Starbucks, so are we done comparing the two.
Quote from: fsujax on July 17, 2012, 01:16:05 PM
Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.
please don't confuse this discussion with facts
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 17, 2012, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: fsujax on July 17, 2012, 01:16:05 PM
Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.
please don't confuse this discussion with facts
You certainly never do...
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 17, 2012, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 17, 2012, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: fsujax on July 17, 2012, 01:16:05 PM
Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.
please don't confuse this discussion with facts
You certainly never do...
ouch
Quote from: fsquid on July 17, 2012, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 17, 2012, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 17, 2012, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: fsujax on July 17, 2012, 01:16:05 PM
Isn't the Starbucks in Macclenny right next to I-10 at the Super Walmart? I would hardly call that Downtown Macclenny.
please don't confuse this discussion with facts
You certainly never do...
ouch
Well you kind of have to know the history on this issue. For what must be five or six years now, Tufsu has been running around defending the policies that wrecked downtown, primarily because he and his company were riding the government gravy train. He argued there was no problem with parking policies, even as company after company moved to the suburbs citing that as the reason. Every time another small business closed, he would bash the owner of the business, saying its their own fault and they didn't know how to run a business. That's despite the fact that some of them actually wrote open letters about the city's policies being the reason they were leaving.
When people pointed out a few years back that downtown had become deserted, Tufsu jumped in with bogus figures claiming there were 51k workers there. The debate wound up showing there were more like 10% of that number and falling, and DVI had to come out in response to the embarrassment afterwards and admit that it's own figures had been bogus. So I guess Tufsu did unintentionally accomplish something on that one. Then Downtown used to have scores of restaurants up through the 90s, and when people lamented that they had left, Tufsu denied it and touted a list that infamously included the Winn-Dixie and a drive-thru fast food place as dining options. And even then, most of the other establishments on his list have since closed.
As you witnessed in this thread, when confronted with the reality that we're the only city of this size in the nation whose downtown can't even support a Starbucks, and that's despite giving it free rent, Tufsu of course rides in to claim that it's due to everything other than the actual reasons. Now that it's becoming harder and harder to obfuscate and deny reality, as downtown has continued its slide to the point where it looks like Raccoon City after the outbreak, Tufsu's just getting the dose of reality that's been coming to him for years, from the rest of us who've been treated as heretics for saying there's a problem and we should fix it.
Isn't there still a Starbucks in the Aetna Building?
There was as of two months ago.
Well Starbucks certainly hasn't heard about it, according to their store locator. Or are we talking about one of those independent coffee stands that just serves Starbucks coffee? If that's the case there's also a Starbucks in my house this morning. And the Aetna (Prudential) building is on the south bank anyway, not the core.
I just looked at their locator. Either it closed or the Starbucks near Avenues Mall on Southside Boulevard or it's also missing.
i think it is more like a Kiosk, that serves Starbucks, it isnt an actual storefront.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 18, 2012, 06:22:21 AM
primarily because he and his company were riding the government gravy train.
I really wish this was true....sadly I haven't done any work for the City of Jacksonville in the last six years.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 18, 2012, 08:23:55 AM
I just looked at their locator. Either it closed or the Starbucks near Avenues Mall on Southside Boulevard or it's also missing.
it is still there
Maybe what it boils down to is despite the fact that Maxwell House has big operations in the city and the smell of roasting coffee permeates the morning air all across town, Jacksonvillians just aren't big coffee drinkers!! Haha kidding, but seriously I want to know where downtown office workers get their coffee!
It shouldn't just be about Starbucks or independent shops, it's lamo if the only choices are lobby coffee stands or your office break room...where do people meet in the morning? What's the office culture like? Discussing peer cities only, when I visit Nashville or Austin I get a real hustle and bustle vibe in their CBDs, where there are plenty of coffee shops, independent breakfast places with local coffee roasters, and just a scurrying of office workers everywhere. Is there a morning "rush" like that in Jacksonville? Are there bars after business hours that are then packed with courthouse and office workers (like there are in Nashville and Charlotte)?
We can talk about residents and retail til we're blue in the face, but as an office submarket is there an office culture? There's always something interesting about various cities' office cultures (at least to me). A dense office district can actually put a lot of people on the sidewalks and create demand for certain segments of retail!
Here in Atlanta we have men's suit stores in DT/MT (Jos. A Bank just opened up a large Peachtree storefront downtown that looks more like a Brooks Brothers, Brooks Brothers is going in Midtown, local store H. Stockton is already Midtown, and even Men's Wearhouse is trying to sign a lease on Peachtree). Hey it's not glorious, but again is indicative of the "office culture". Similar things happening in Charlotte.
I guess my long winded question is:
Is downtown a 9-5 place strictly, or is it more of an 8-7 place. A good office submarket can actually be more than just a 9-5 place and hours of vibrancy can be extended. We should nail that part down first and then perhaps go for the residents and the retail.
Quote from: stephendare on July 18, 2012, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 18, 2012, 09:17:05 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 18, 2012, 06:22:21 AM
primarily because he and his company were riding the government gravy train.
I really wish this was true....sadly I haven't done any work for the City of Jacksonville in the last six years.
I'm sorry to ask this. But when you say this do you mean, you personally have not worked, or do you mean your company? And would that exclude fdot work that is being done within Jacksonville city limits?
my company has done very little (if any) work with the City itself since I've been in Jacksonville (6 years)....we've also done little to nothing with JTA....as for FDOT contracts for work inside the City, I'm only aware of one and its for resurfacing design.
Simms, there is no activity Downtown. the 3,000 workers leave at 5pm. then it's a ghost town. I dont know how any business survives, there obviously is no demand.
Quote from: fsujax on July 18, 2012, 01:12:55 PM
Simms, there is no activity Downtown. the 3,000 workers leave at 5pm. then it's a ghost town. I dont know how any business survives, there obviously is no demand.
Well, they don't survive.
As has been noted, downtown is indeed a ghost town. Even Starbucks closed, despite free rent.
Quote from: simms3 on July 18, 2012, 09:42:54 AM
Maybe what it boils down to is despite the fact that Maxwell House has big operations in the city and the smell of roasting coffee permeates the morning air all across town, Jacksonvillians just aren't big coffee drinkers!! Haha kidding, but seriously I want to know where downtown office workers get their coffee!
When I worked downtown at Ghyabi, Chamblins was my main spot. If I wanted a full breakfast with my coffee, I'd head over to Desert Rider or Akel's. If it were raining, I'd go underground to Benny's since that tunnel is accessible from the garage I parked in. Early on, a couple of times I stopped by the coffee shop in the BOA Tower. However, Chamblins eventually won me over because of their coffee card (buy 6 get one fee). This week, I've started my mission to invest 40 hour work weeks into Metro Jacksonville to take it to the next level. So far, I'm still stopping in Chamblins for my morning cup.
Okay coffee persons. After talking briefly with Jay at Bold Bean today, we've decided at Chamblin's to offer the Bold Bean coffee, starting with one or two blends initially and expanding with time. I remember when we sold their coffees before their location move. I loved their coffee at the time, and I suspect that it is even better now.
According to the informal voting, it seems that the Green Mountain French Roast just doesn't cut it as compared to the Bold Bean. We probably will not be set up with Bold Bean until the end of next week. I am now looking at their blend offerings to determine which to order. Any recommendations? We will probably experiment with their espresso too.
This move to Bold Bean, if it works out, will allow me to cancel my tentative plans to set up our own coffee roast room in the adjacent building which I recently purchased.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 18, 2012, 07:29:59 PM
This week, I've started my mission to invest 40 hour work weeks into Metro Jacksonville to take it to the next level.
the Mayor would be proud!
HEY RON! COLOMBIAN dark roast is a great standard. I don't know their offerings but coffee from Kenya tends to be naturally sweeter and perhaps less acrid. I highly recommend both!
Believe it or not Florida is home to a native coffee, Just the name sounds exciting and tropical. Actually, wild coffee (Psychotria nervosa) is a Florida native shrub that gets its common name from the small, red fruit it produces. The plant produces the chemical compound dimethyltryptamine, which is hallucinogenic. The scientific name Psychotria reflects this. The second part of the scientific name, nervosa, refers to the deep veins in each leaf.
Native Americans brewed wild coffee beans for ceremonies and medicinal purposes, but wild coffee isn't considered palatable today.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 18, 2012, 11:05:19 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 18, 2012, 07:29:59 PM
This week, I've started my mission to invest 40 hour work weeks into Metro Jacksonville to take it to the next level.
the Mayor would be proud!
Of course, we'll be looking at and taking advantages of the best practices from around the country. This will help us deliver that long awaited grocery store in downtown....I hope it's a Winn-Dixie. Combined, these will deliver us our NBA franchise which will defeat Lebron James, Dwade, Boshasaurus and Jesus Shuttlesworth. At that point we'll be a destination and not a pass through!
(http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/50864/2764029180104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
Nevado Del Ruiz, Colombia, seen from rift ridge.
COFFEE DRINKERS, Just a suggestion to BUY Colombian Coffee. Reason (besides the normal ones) is the Volcano known as 'Nevado Del Ruiz,' Ruiz killed 45,000 people in a mud flow back in the 1980's and once again it's exploded our of it's glacier. The Cities of Manazales and Pereria are THE coffee growing region of the nation, rich volcanic soil. Therein lays the problem, what blesses the Andes also kills people! I understand from family in Manazales that the city is basically shut down... (even the BRT shut down) all roads, airports and my railway are shut down. Ash is likely to fall over Bogota and the coffee region.
People purchasing coffee are providing jobs to an area that I suspect could be hard hit if this damn thing continues to act up.
I have a personal dislike for that volcano because it kicked me slap out of bed one morning about 4 am when it sent a weird earthquake shock wave through our area. The entire room felt like someone kicked the furniture a couple of meters to the side. I ended up on the floor! I had to drink coffee just to calm down! LOL
Ock, only you could conjure up a glacier, a volcano, a mountain view and an earthquake story to get us to choose your favorite coffee!
Quote from: thelakelander on July 18, 2012, 11:25:20 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 18, 2012, 11:05:19 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 18, 2012, 07:29:59 PM
This week, I've started my mission to invest 40 hour work weeks into Metro Jacksonville to take it to the next level.
the Mayor would be proud!
Of course, we'll be looking at and taking advantages of the best practices from around the country. This will help us deliver that long awaited grocery store in downtown....I hope it's a Winn-Dixie. Combined, these will deliver us our NBA franchise which will defeat Lebron James, Dwade, Boshasaurus and Jesus Shuttlesworth. At that point we'll be a destination and not a pass through!
well played sir!
Quote from: ronchamblin on July 18, 2012, 10:50:42 PM
Okay coffee persons. After talking briefly with Jay at Bold Bean today, we've decided at Chamblin's to offer the Bold Bean coffee, starting with one or two blends initially and expanding with time. I remember when we sold their coffees before their location move. I loved their coffee at the time, and I suspect that it is even better now.
According to the informal voting, it seems that the Green Mountain French Roast just doesn't cut it as compared to the Bold Bean. We probably will not be set up with Bold Bean until the end of next week. I am now looking at their blend offerings to determine which to order. Any recommendations? We will probably experiment with their espresso too.
This move to Bold Bean, if it works out, will allow me to cancel my tentative plans to set up our own coffee roast room in the adjacent building which I recently purchased.
Yippee! Thanks, Ron - I'll be coming in for my coffee card tomorrow!
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 18, 2012, 07:16:38 PM
Quote from: fsujax on July 18, 2012, 01:12:55 PM
Simms, there is no activity Downtown. the 3,000 workers leave at 5pm. then it's a ghost town. I dont know how any business survives, there obviously is no demand.
Well, they don't survive.
As has been noted, downtown is indeed a ghost town. Even Starbucks closed, despite free rent.
Last month I went to a concert then had food and went to a gallery. I could have sworn I saw people running for exercise and riding bicycles. It is disturbing to find out all those beings I thought were people were all ghosts instead. Does this mean I see dead people? Downtown Jacksonville needs help no doubt but lets not pretend there are not lots of things people enjoy there and does not have thousands of residents. The path to success is holding up the assets it does have AND work to make it better. That is my opinion
^I think those people you saw are actually holograms.
Quote from: John P on July 19, 2012, 03:57:49 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 18, 2012, 07:16:38 PM
Quote from: fsujax on July 18, 2012, 01:12:55 PM
Simms, there is no activity Downtown. the 3,000 workers leave at 5pm. then it's a ghost town. I dont know how any business survives, there obviously is no demand.
Well, they don't survive.
As has been noted, downtown is indeed a ghost town. Even Starbucks closed, despite free rent.
Last month I went to a concert then had food and went to a gallery. I could have sworn I saw people running for exercise and riding bicycles. It is disturbing to find out all those beings I thought were people were all ghosts instead. Does this mean I see dead people? Downtown Jacksonville needs help no doubt but lets not pretend there are not lots of things people enjoy there and does not have thousands of residents. The path to success is holding up the assets it does have AND work to make it better. That is my opinion
Then why have the businesses closed? Including Starbucks despite free rent?
A couple joggers does not a downtown make.
A fact all the closed businesses obviously figured out.
maybe you should take a visit or two downtown and see for yourself if it is in fact dead
update...here's what I saw at 10pm tonight (with nothing special going on) on my way home from the Landing
about 100 people on the Riverwalk near the Landing
100+ people in the Landing courtyard
Fionn MacCool's outside area was full
Hooters was full with 20+ people waiting in a line to get in
A decent crowd at Underbelly and at Northstar
A line waiting to get into Dos Gatos
Wow, that's a whole 220 people by your own count, Tufsu. On a Saturday night. Thank you for agreeing with me that there is a problem if what you listed is the extent of the activity you witnessed on a Saturday night downtown.
2.2/1000=.0022 ;D
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 23, 2012, 05:16:45 PM
Wow, that's a whole 220 people by your own count, Tufsu. On a Saturday night. Thank you for agreeing with me that there is a problem if what you listed is the extent of the activity you witnessed on a Saturday night downtown.
come on, now you guys are just being ridic....I mean really, Hooters alone seats over 200 so considering they had a line out the door, me thinks your # is a bit off.
nevertheless, I was riding my bike home and unfortunately did not stop at every downtown establishment to count the number of people (nor did I count the cars)....what I do know is that some of the places I passed were quite crowded...and here I'd been told that nobody went downtown.
why not just come on down and see for yourself?
Was in and around downtown while real estate shopping on Sunday and it's still stunning how dead the downtown of a million person MSA can be. I saw more people out on the street during siesta in a 30,000 person Spanish town than Jax's downtown on a Sunday afternoon. My realtor was complaining (before seeing a place in the Churchwell Lofts) that the only place he could find open to eat for lunch was Hooters, and even it wasn't that crowded.
Say that you live at a more affordable location than Bay St, like a Parks at the Cathedral townhouse. The closest food is going to be Winn-Dixie, the next closest thing is a Burger King, and the Burrito Gallery/Indochine is a half mile away. If that's what you'd call a vibrant downtown, I have some Ukranian farmland you might be very interested in.
To be brief, which is difficult for me, a vibrant downtown, that is, between Bay and Beaver, and Julia and Market, seems almost impossible as long as we do not have many small to medium places to rent for low cost, and as long as we have not reached a “threshold†of activity. With the large number of Bank of America type buildings existing, which alone forbids any vibrancy on the sidewalk, and with the momentum of almost zero activity in the core, the path to vibrancy seems way down the road, that is, if one is to wait for organic growth to begin.
No business would entertain seriously opening a business in the core at this point because they know the lack of foot traffic would doom them within months, a scenario I’ve seen about ten times on my street in only five years. The only reason that my operation is surviving in the core is because first, owning my building, I am not at the mercy of a greedy landlord demanding high rents, and second, we are fortunate in having a product that is not offered in abundance in the suburbs. Therefore, to some degree, people are forced to come into the core to browse our books, especially on Sundays. Our sales, both in the café and in the bookstore are up over last year by a solid 35 percent, approaching 40 percent. Our Sundays are becoming quite busy, with Saturdays following.
The threshold is the problem. How does it arrive? Theoretically, if we might introduce a fantasy, a foot traffic threshold could be forced if, by some great effort and ability, a revitalization Czar would distribute simultaneously to “each†of about forty small businesses, about $1,000,000 (to each) for their use in opening an operation in the core area. These business persons would have to be somewhat experienced so that the money would not be wasted on individuals who had dreams of being in business, but no real experience or ability to realize them.
The $1,000,000 given to each would allow them to optimize their operation so that success would be assured. It would help the new core businesses if they were to offer products, and satisfy needs, not well established in the suburbs, such as houses of prostitution ;D, thereby forcing outsiders to enter the city to get the products or services.
Having artificially caused the achievement of a threshold level of activity, the momentum of incoming businesses and residents would be established. We have seen recently, small centers of vibrancy emerge organically along Park and King, and Park and Stockton, partially as a result of the small to medium rental spaces available there, and the lack of large buildings forcing dead sidewalk areas.
An important key to success in survival in the city core is for new core businesses to offer services or products not available in the outer layers of the city. For example, the legalization of the drug marijuana in Florida, if it were to occur, which I expect to be the case eventually, will provide a great opportunity to revitalize the downtown core. This could be accomplished by simply allowing, if possible by legislation, the distribution and selling of the drug only in the city core. This would force people, at least those using the recreational drug, to visit the core.
Residents follow vibrancy, adding to the momentum, assuring that activity does not fall below the threshold. Exceeding the magic threshold assures an organic growth which, unless killed by stupid ordinances or excessive taxes, will continue to draw more businesses and residents.
You should have seen all the ghosts at River Fit Gym last night. People on the deck taking classes, having to wait for weights! I didn't realize ghost liked to workout!
Quote from: fsujax on July 24, 2012, 07:40:28 AM
You should have seen all the ghosts at River Fit Gym last night. People on the deck taking classes, having to wait for weights! I didn't realize ghost liked to workout!
well there was a zombie walk downtown on Saturday afternoon ;D
There are also several multiples more people in the Tinseltown movie theater on the southside on any given Saturday night than there are downtown on Saturday night. That's one movie theater, seats 2,000. And you guys are trying to say that a couple hundred people spread over a downtown in a city of a million people shows there isn't a problem with the policies down there?
I mean, you can try I guess, but your position has already collapsed in such epic failure, not unlike downtown, that I'm not sure what the point is. If you're trying to cheerleader, it's I'll-advised because failing to acknowledge the problem often prevents one from solving it. Ron Chamblin, one of those actual business owners Tufsu loves to tell that they don't know what they're doing, just weighed in above you to confirm everything we've said.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 25, 2012, 07:43:11 AM
There are also several multiples more people in the Tinseltown movie theater on the southside on any given Saturday night than there are downtown on Saturday night. That's one movie theater, seats 2,000.
really...what facts do you have to support this?
and no...Mr. Chamblin didn't agree with everything you said....I agree that downtown has its problems and that many of the policies in place do more harm than good....but to imply, as you have done, that there is NOTHING to do downtown and that NOBODY goes there is false....I think Chamblin's cash register receipts refute that argument completely.
Oh really, wise guy, what part did Ron disagree with us on again?
Quote from: ronchamblin on July 23, 2012, 11:50:04 PM
No business would entertain seriously opening a business in the core at this point because they know the lack of foot traffic would doom them within months, a scenario I’ve seen about ten times on my street in only five years.
Quote from: ronchamblin on July 23, 2012, 11:50:04 PM
Residents follow vibrancy, adding to the momentum, assuring that activity does not fall below the threshold. Exceeding the magic threshold assures an organic growth which, unless killed by stupid ordinances or excessive taxes, will continue to draw more businesses and residents.
Quote from: ronchamblin on July 23, 2012, 11:50:04 PM
To be brief, which is difficult for me, a vibrant downtown, that is, between Bay and Beaver, and Julia and Market, seems almost impossible as long as we do not have many small to medium places to rent for low cost, and as long as we have not reached a “threshold†of activity.
Again, this is an actual business owner Downtown, not some pie-in-the-sky planning discussion, giving you his honest observation from the front-row of what's going on down there. But I'm sure you know better than these actual downtown business owners.
If business is so bad for Ron, then why doesn't he just close up shop, why even bother renovating the building next door to him. I can't imagine him sinking more money into a losing venture.
If you want to go to church, there's plenty of that action downtown.
Quote from: fsujax on July 25, 2012, 08:59:26 AM
If business is so bad for Ron, then why doesn't he just close up shop, why even bother renovating the building next door to him. I can't imagine him sinking more money into a losing venture.
First, did you not read his post at all?
Second, I don't think getting snarky at one of the few people gutsy enough to be a Downtown pioneer is really going to help your case that Jacksonville's downtown is alive and well.
bativac....I don't believe that fsujax (or myself) are saying that downtown is well...but the only ones being snarky are those who say that nothing is happening downtown....now maybe they don't really believe that and have just chosen their words poorly.
I am not being snarky, I know Ron, he knows me and I support his business.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 25, 2012, 11:41:51 AM
bativac....I don't believe that fsujax (or myself) are saying that downtown is well...but the only ones being snarky are those who say that nothing is happening downtown....now maybe they don't really believe that and have just chosen their words poorly.
We haven't chosen our words poorly, you've just incorrect in your 6 years' worth of denials and attempts to misdirect any discussion about this topic. Downtown's problems are painfully obvious to everyone, as are their causes.
Okay guys! We get it that tufsu has been here spreading his evil for 6 years. No need to beat it to death. Arguments besides tufsu is in denial are welcome here, I believe.
Anywho, back to Starbucks! Coffee drinkers, do you typically get your coffee on your way to work, in the morning after a couple hours, in the afternoon to not slip into food coma, after, or all? I ask because my belief is that most people get their coffee (if its just one a day) in the morning before work. If you are commuting into town (as most are), would you be more likely to get it at the beginning or end of your car ride? It would seem to me that people buy coffee close to where they live, rather than close to where they walk (and once they are at work, if they need more, most places have their own or there's a in-house place downstairs). If thats so its more about residents downtown than workers. Same outcome of course, but its a different problem.
Also, anybody go to Jax City Cafe for coffee? They have great breakfast, so I would think the coffee is decent.
Isn't Starbucks coffee really bad from the perspective of someone that enjoys, say, Bold Bean?
Being from super-suburbia chain country in NJ, one thing that has struck me about Jax is the seeming inclination of residents towards non-chains, or at least more local chains. The place is still filled with chains, mind you, but less so than other areas, it seems to me. Or perhaps Riverside is just clouding my judgement.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 25, 2012, 08:37:54 AMI agree that downtown has its problems and that many of the policies in place do more harm than good....but to imply, as you have done, that there is NOTHING to do downtown and that NOBODY goes there is false....I think Chamblin's cash register receipts refute that argument completely.
I don't understand why some people think devaluing the positives and emphasizing the negatives is a good strategy, either.
Downtown is certainly lacking, yes. And it certainly does have more to do than most 1.5x1.5 sq miles (or whatever it is) areas of Jax. It's not a zero sum arguement.
Quote from: 77danj7 on August 06, 2012, 11:25:45 AM
Quote from Peter King's Monday Morning Quarterback after his stay in Jackonsonville last week to visit the Jaguars training camp:
QuoteCoffeenerdness: I'm not denigrating Jacksonville or anything, but I stayed at the Omni Hotel downtown late last week and went down to the lobby in the morning, looking to take a walk to get a coffee. "Where's the nearest Starbucks?'' I asked the parking guy in front. He said the nearest one was a little more than two miles away, and there wasn't one in the city's business district downtown. Amazed, I said, "Any other coffee bars downtown?'' None, the guy said, at least to his knowledge.
i. An American inner city, without a Starbucks. Now I've heard it all.Quote
Some of the downtown shops like Chamblins etc may need to make some information available to hotels and other businesses!
I'll bet the Omni has a concierge but Peter King chose to ask the parking guy where to get coffee nearby? Really? Also, wouldn't the Hyatt have been a better choice? I really enjoy the guy's writing and read him weekly during football season.
I'll bet the Omni has a coffee pot.
If that were what he wanted I doubt he'd have written the article.
In any event it hardly changes the fact that our downtown is alone among cities of this size in the country, where it cannot support a Starbucks. And that's despite giving it free rent.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on August 08, 2012, 10:41:20 AM
I'll bet the Omni has a concierge but Peter King chose to ask the parking guy where to get coffee nearby? Really? Also, wouldn't the Hyatt have been a better choice? I really enjoy the guy's writing and read him weekly during football season.
there used to be a Starbucks cart in the Omni lobby (maybe its still there)...and of course the adjoining office buidling has a breakfast/lunch vendor that also sells coffee
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 09, 2012, 09:25:33 AM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on August 08, 2012, 10:41:20 AM
I'll bet the Omni has a concierge but Peter King chose to ask the parking guy where to get coffee nearby? Really? Also, wouldn't the Hyatt have been a better choice? I really enjoy the guy's writing and read him weekly during football season.
there used to be a Starbucks cart in the Omni lobby (maybe its still there)...and of course the adjoining office buidling has a breakfast/lunch vendor that also sells coffee
Well OF COURSE!!! Again, visitors shouldn't be required to seek out far away, hidden, or unknown vendors just to get a cup of coffee. We need at least one decent coffee shop downtown and every employee at the hotels should be able to direct you to it.
Quote from: stephendare on August 09, 2012, 09:35:45 AM
It didn't serve espresso worth pouring into the eye of the devil, TUFSU. The man asked for a Starbucks, which was been very successful in branding itself.
People have an individual drink that they order. For example when I say Starbucks, I mean that I want a quad shot of espresso, with one pump of vanilla, and topped off with cold soy milk.
For my sister, it's a quad shot grande latte with 11 pumps do sugar free vanilla.
It's almost never just coffee as a.rule.
For some perspective on the King story - his columns frequently make it clear that he has a Starbucks-specific fixation and seeks out Starbucks, not local coffee shops.
He also has a habit of picking on Jacksonville (e.g., calling it "Hartford with palm trees" and openly rooting for the Jaguars to move to London so he can make Sports Illustrated-paid visits there), which is why I suspect I-10 East, understandably, angrily reacted to King's commentary.
Of course, that doesn't change the facts that it's highly unfortunate that downtown couldn't support its Starbucks stores and that the hotel employees couldn't point King to a coffee shop.
I don't read him, but if he has something against Jacksonville, he would have complained about something else instead, Starbucks in hand. That said, yes, it would be nice if downtown Jax could support a Starbucks. But, hey, Ron Chamblin will soon have (or already has) Bold Bean. Support Chamblins! Who needs Starbucks when we have Ron? Ron can pass out flyers to all the parking lot attendants and front desks in downtown Jacksonville. Problem solved.
Did anyone see the FOR SALE / LEASE signs at the old public library on Ocean Street? Looks like the grand vision is gone and the building is doomed until the next real estate cycle.....
^ here's an idea....why not sell/lease the building to Intuition Ale Works....it has a loading dock, removing a floor would provide the required ceiling height, and plenty of good space for a tap room...all within the burgeoning entertainment district.