Some small-market NFL fans will soon be severely disappointed when their team is moved to the new Los Angeles stadium.
http://www.playerpress.com/articles/caution-la-is-coming-to-steal-your-nfl-team-in-2011
Quote...Unfortunately for some fans of the game, LA’s gain will be your loss. The NFL has no plans to expand in the near future and LA’s stadium is expected to be ready for the 2011 season. So, fans of small-market teams should beware, particularly if your city is not willing to pay the ransoms necessary to keep your NFL franchise. I’ve heard chatter about Buffalo and Jacksonville. I’m sure there are other cities not willing or able to pay to bring their venues up to the likes of the new Dallas stadium or Houston’s Reliant. While others have experienced the pain of losing a beloved team to another town, I can only imagine the horror and severity of the suffering. In advance of this pending “crime,†I give you my sympathies and regards. All you small-market NFL faithfuls out there, take heed: Los Angeles is coming to steal someone’s team in 2011.
I doubt they could finish the stadium by 2011 as it still hasn't been approved yet, but it looks like it's not far off:
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/stadium-team-semcken-2573936-nfl-roski
Quote"We're going to be done by the end of September, one way or another, with approval for the stadium," Semcken said, saying he was confident the state Senate would approve environmental waivers on the project if there isn't a settlement with litigants by Sept. 29. "Then it's a matter of which (existing NFL) team is going to come.
QuoteNeither Semcken, nor Roski, would name which teams are on their list of possible tenants, but various published reports have included the Chargers, Raiders, Jacksonville Jaguars, Buffalo Bills, Minnesota Vikings and â€" uh-oh â€" St. Louis Rams as those possibly interested in relocating.
www.losangelesfootballstadium.com
I call not it for the Jags.
NOT IT.
Not talking about you David, but someone is really bored.
haha yeah, that guy is a bit out there, thought I'd throw those articles out there so that our fellow MJ'ers can disect it.
I haven't been paying attention to the L.A. NFL drama before, so it's hard for me to tell if they're really serious about this or if this is something that comes up regularly. Even if their new stadium does get built, I'd like to think Mr. Weaver will stick by his word to stay committed to Jax.
QuoteI'd like to think Mr. Weaver will stick by his word to stay committed to Jax.
The real question is... Will Jax stay committed to the Jags? The NFL wants a franchise in L.A. and they will help and promote any effort to get one there. If they build a stadium... it will be fairly easy to find an owner or group to purchase and move a team. The good news is there is a list of at least 5 other teams that look to be contenders for the move. Unfortunately... the Vikings look to be a good team for a few more years... the Bills are up and coming... San Diego's main issue is a new stadium. I think the possible movers are Raiders, Rams, Jags.
Good point Mr. Troll.
I'm going to attend the home games just as soon as I get caught up on other things. I sat through most of last season's home games in the stands, and that wasn't easy. But at the very least tail-gating and cheering when we did something right was enjoyable.
The city really does need to learn how to support them even when they're not at their best. This season will be the test of fan support for sure. I just hope this past Sunday didn't set the tone for the rest of the year....
I think this guy spent some money on a website to get people excited. From the reports I have read, none of the local people in and around City of Industry want the stadium and all that in brings. Also, the economic impact estimate is grossly over-estimated (see our own SuperBowl estimates) and frankly, I know where they want to put that stadium and no-one, and I mean no-one in LA is going to spend that time in traffic to go there.
This is similar to a "If you build it they will come" strategy. If you want to know how that works, as the Rays and the Dolphins.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on September 22, 2009, 07:10:48 AM
The good news is there is a list of at least 5 other teams that look to be contenders for the move. Unfortunately... the Vikings look to be a good team for a few more years... the Bills are up and coming... San Diego's main issue is a new stadium. I think the possible movers are Raiders, Rams, Jags.
Go back and look at every team that has moved. The Oilers, Rams, Raiders, Browns. All moved because of stadium issues. The Bucs almost moved to Baltimore in 1994 because of a stadium issue. The Seahawks flirted with LA in the late 90s until they got a new stadium. The Saints were considered a candidate to move until they got a new stadium deal. To say the Chargers main issue is a stadium is to name them as the most likely team to move.
Check out the slew of bad press slamming Jacksonville as a NFL town, all written in the last 24 hours :
NFL has no business being in Jacksonville (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-jaguars092109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
Blackouts, History May Ultimately Lead the Jaguars to Los Angeles (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/259113-blackouts-history-may-ultimately-lead-the-jaguars-to-los-angeles)
It's like these sportswriters want us to fail. A lot of them have always had it out for Jacksonville...
If LA wants a team, why haven't they bought the Rams?
The Wetzel article makes some great points... though his conclusion is premature.
Hmm, Los Angeles has had 2 teams before, and both left. IMO, they don't deserve another chance, they had them and blew it. The Chargers palyed one season there before they moved to San Diego, so I guess that can count as a 3rd team. Houston, which lost the Oilers when they moved to Tennessee, still got a new team before Los Angeles did. This shows something, and that is that the NFL is not willing to expand back into the L.A. market when it has a record of losing the teams. The only way, IF, BIG IF, the stadium gets built, which I doubt.
L.A. is a basketball town, not a football town, except for USC.
I really enjoy these slaps at our city's NFL team, as if these writers have nothing else better to do.
I am a faithful Jaguars supporter. I always support them win or lose. That's what this town needs to be. The Jaguars would mean so much good for the economy. Come on Jacksonville! Support your Jaguars. It's the only major league type team we have!
I guarantee there will be a team in L.A. in the next 5 years. There are 8 million t.v.'s in that market and that means lot's of revenue. The NFL knows it's the second largest t.v. market in the U.S. and they're chomping at the bit to get a team there.
Right now Goddell is looking at Jacksonville under a microscope. After the blackouts each week he's looking for an increase in ticket sales. He's diagnosing the fan base and he can't hear all the cheap excuses. If the ticket's don't sell and the game isn't on t.v. the team does not belong here.
If California wasn't in financial ruin I'm sure a stadium would already be under way and after this season lost revenue here I'm sure a deal would be in the works.
They may have lost 2 teams... but it was because of piss-poor stadium in a down-n-out neighborhood. If they can build something like Dallas, AZ or Indy they'll be successful... and we'll be SOL.
Why would the Jaguars move and not the Chargers (stadium issues) or the Rams (blackouts and seeking new owner)?
Because Wayne Weaver comes to the conclusion that Jax is not a viable market for an NFL franchise...
It's possible that both of those teams could move there... but Wayne Weaver is the most desperate. Even the teams that need new stadiums are selling more tickets than us and producing more revenue where they're at.
He has a stadium lease.
Quote from: David on September 22, 2009, 07:58:17 AM
Check out the slew of bad press slamming Jacksonville as a NFL town, all written in the last 24 hours :
NFL has no business being in Jacksonville (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-jaguars092109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
I think this is a fair article. It's not slamming Jax at all. It's just arguing the case that - as a matter of cold, hard demographics - Jacksonville is too small to sell-out NFL games during a recession (or with a bad team). So far, the facts support his argument. When 20,000-30,000 people just stop showing up, tired cliches of "let's support our team!" are totally irrelevant. It has nothing to do with local pride, and everything to do with macroeconomic forces too big for one company to overcome.
Now, it's a completely separate issue whether the lack of sell-outs is justification to move the team. But that's not up to any sportswriter, or any Jacksonville fan. That's up to Wayne Weaver and what he decides to do with his business.
So far, Weaver has been 100% explicit that he's staying in Jax. So this is all probably a non-issue.
Unfortunately for Wayne... he will be answering this question many times this year...
What makes people think that L.A. won't do again what they did in the past, even if it is a new stadium?
IMO, they don't deserve it as they had their chances, and lost them.
I don't understand why people don't support the jags. Sure, we're not the best in the NFL, but we're not too expensive either. Tickets start at $40. $40 for a whole day out isn't bad. You certainly can't go to any theme park for close to that.
I wish the NFL would go by tickets SOLD and not seats remaining. We're not that bad if you count how many we sell:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?year=2008
That's the real problem.
games to watch. Now that is taking advantage of the market. And LA has proven they are not a pro football town. Why did the Raiders and Rams leave? Fool me once, twice, thrice... Jax clearly has issues with the Jags but I think Goodell will give them a couple years to straighten out. I DO NOT THINK 46K at games will be allowed to go on indefinitely. The team has to turn around and the people who love the Jags and NFL football have to realize if they want the Jags to stay they have to support them. Just because the NFL doesn't move a team to LA doesn't mean it can't go to Portland, Salt Lake City, etc. Jax has population growth going for it and is still an up and coming city but the economy, team's fortunes and lack of excitement have created a perfect storm.
Generally, I'd agree coredumped. Jacksonville has held up extremely well in the absolute number of tickets sold. Last year Jax had a 65,000 average, for 19 out of 32, despite being the 29th or 30th smallest market.
HOWEVER, this year is supposedly different. Jax only got 46,000 for their first home game. If that trend holds up, Jax will be 32 out of 32 in every conceivable attendance category, whether percentage, actual, revenue, etc.
During the Fox Sports pre-game show on week 1, there was an interview done with a guy from the NFL who stated that the Rams had the best chance of being moved because they were actually for sale and nearing the end of their contract anyways. He also said the the most likely city to pick them up would be London, not LA. Apparently, London has been chomping at the bit for more exibition games and a team. The Brits must really be diggin on some REAL "football". :)
London? That'd be a f*cked up schedule and would drain the players everytime they have to go on the road. If you can call crossing The Pond a road game.
The Jags aren't going anywhere. I am so tired of hearing it. Just buy freakin tickets and go people! It's thats simple. Even when we lose, its still fun being at the stadium, eating, drinking and being with your friends.
Quote from: Joe on September 22, 2009, 09:57:28 AM
I think this is a fair article. It's not slamming Jax at all. It's just arguing the case that - as a matter of cold, hard demographics - Jacksonville is too small to sell-out NFL games during a recession (or with a bad team). So far, the facts support his argument
I agree with the point it's making about our relatively small size, but the headline "NFL has no business in Jacksonville" doesn't paint us in the best light. It's not exactly a feel good story ya know? BT nailed it I think, it's a bit premature to say the NFL doesn't belong here.
Quote from: coredumped on September 22, 2009, 11:07:48 AM
I don't understand why people don't support the jags. Sure, we're not the best in the NFL, but we're not too expensive either. Tickets start at $40. $40 for a whole day out isn't bad. You certainly can't go to any theme park for close to that.
$40 for a full day is inaccurate, and a theme park comparison doesn't work. $40 base ticket price, food, drinks, and one family member put your cost at $100, unless you make your kid, wife, girlfriend, whoever buy their own.
When was the last time you went to a theme park? This season, I agree with you. I am only going to 2 games because that's all I can afford. In a regular season(read: good economy), they want you to shell out for 3,4, or even 7 games. A theme park is a once a year type of thing, not 7 times in 5 months.
For this season, I say Yes, treat it like a trip to a theme park. Buy tickets to one or two games and buy them before Thursday, if only to try and avert the stigma that goes with a blacked out game. For the long term viability of the team, this strategy won't hold up.
It's soothing to read great, sensible, measured points all over this thread, which is a great relief compared to the constant hysteria of the Jaguar board.
As Joe and Coredumped said, 46k per game can't continue but we have done much better before. And we're also in a much better lease situation than, e.g., Minnesota or St. Louis or San Diego. It's my understanding that the NFL has made it more difficult to approve a move after the Browns to Baltimore incident; there must be three years in a row of losses (please correct me if I'm wrong). This year is obviously going to be a money loser as Wayne already admitted; let's hope we can get it turned around. Improved performance on the field will help, but of course this team is incorporating a lot of new, inexperienced players and it's going to take some time for several units to jell, most notably the offensive line. I expect to see a strong finish to the season but we may take some more lumps early.
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 12:44:36 PM
So, would it be a bad thing if the Jaguars went out west? Jacksonville seems to be fairly fond of Football, but LA seems like it would be even fonder.
Not really. Most people in LA don't care. Any team in LA would be fourth banana after the Lakers, Dodgers and Angels.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 22, 2009, 12:46:43 PM
Not really. Most people in LA don't care. Any team in LA would be fourth banana after the Lakers, Dodgers and Angels.
Correct, plus fonder isn't a word.
Ok, you made your point in the previous post jackass.
Anyways, abscence may make them miss NFL football, but that arguement is a moot point to the fact they've had their chanceS.
Ouch -
QuoteNFL HAS NO BUSINESS BEING IN JACKSONVILLE
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-jaguars092109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 12:44:36 PM
So, would it be a bad thing if the Jaguars went out west? Jacksonville seems to be fairly fond of Football, but LA seems like it would be even fonder.
having the team shut down the core city every time they play here, and cutting off all traffic in and out of the neighborhoods isnt really helping downtown much.
Do people really like the Jaguars here anyways?
Sounds like another entity we're all familiar with: FBC. Why can't they move to LA? 8)
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 12:44:36 PM
So, would it be a bad thing if the Jaguars went out west? Jacksonville seems to be fairly fond of Football, but LA seems like it would be even fonder.
having the team shut down the core city every time they play here, and cutting off all traffic in and out of the neighborhoods isnt really helping downtown much.
Do people really like the Jaguars here anyways?
The team is the only thing going on downtown on Sunday besides FBC.
No, there are many other churches meeting Downtown on Sunday's as well. Including Bethel. I can't believe someone actually brought FBC into this thread. It amazes me how certain subjects are brought into almost every thread. I hope the City hasn't wasted our money by installing those wonderful mast arms poles along Bay St.
Quote from: blizz01 on September 22, 2009, 01:30:29 PM
Ouch -
QuoteNFL HAS NO BUSINESS BEING IN JACKSONVILLE
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-jaguars092109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Whoa. He swung a few haymakers below the belt.
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 12:44:36 PM
Do people really like the Jaguars here anyways?
It depends on what you mean by "people"?
Quote from: fsujax on September 22, 2009, 01:56:59 PM
No, there are many other churches meeting Downtown on Sunday's as well. Including Bethel. I can't believe someone actually brought FBC into this thread. It amazes me how certain subjects are brought into almost every thread. I hope the City hasn't wasted our money by installing those wonderful mast arms poles along Bay St.
Believe it... If you stick around long enough, we'll be discussing trains on page 4... ;)
In all honesty, I think they'll replace the front office and ad department before they move this team. There are too many financial hangups with a move, including issues with the lease that the team can't afford to get out of. As a season ticket holder, there are some really serious issues going on with the organization. I'd make a list here, but just an example of one basic thing that management can't handle: They ran out of Bud Light in the BudZone at the HOME OPENER. Not to mention that they only issues 46k tickets for it and only 37k showed up.
I'm not about to give up my tickets, but I am sure that the letter I wrote to Wayne Weaver this Monday will be the first of many. My dad and I go every game, have for the past four years, and even though we really can't afford to do it, we make sacrifices and we go. We sat in the sweltering heat, paying $8 for a $2 beer, screaming and chanting and all we got was slapped in the face by what looked like a complete lack of enthusiasm on the part of the team.
The front office tried this upgrade thing a few weeks ago where season ticket holders could upgrade their tickets to "Cabana" level to gain access to the amenities at the Pepsi Plaza. It was a great deal, and it they did single game tickets for that, I would definitely be interested. But the lack of creativity on the part of the sales staff is a complete roadblock to anything getting done. I would be completely shocked if there is not a total shake down on the business side of things after this season, especially after the unnecessary and ultimately useless rebrand they did this past off season.
They showed a video, basically a team highlight reel, during halftime. I remember growing up and watching the team, heck, my room was painted with Jaguars colors and logo for 8 years. I made my parents do it the weekend the original logo was released. I was at the game when the Falcons missed the field goal and we went to the playoffs. All I could think about when they were playing the video is, "We shouldn't be watching this, we're at the game. The players, coaches and staff should be watching this."
Just the way I see it.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 22, 2009, 02:00:56 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 12:44:36 PM
Do people really like the Jaguars here anyways?
It depends on what you mean by "people"?
The Jaguars have been in the top five NFL markets in TV ratings and in surveys of % of people in the market who regularly follow the home team. Unfortunately, it's not translating into ticket sales this year.
There was a post here earlier by coredumped that showed the average attendance of all NFL teams in 2008 and we were several spots above cities mentioned in the yahoo sports article (Detroit being one of them). We do support this team and I think everyone here knows that. But when times are tough and you have to choose between paying bills or paying Weaver, the answer is simple.
When the economy was doing well and we were putting 70,000 in the seats, the NFL could have given a shit about the fans. Now that the fans are struggling, the sports writers want to jump on the LA bandwagon because the football writers haven't been to LA in 15 years. They just don't like us and that is fine. The Raiders and the Rams were constantly blacked out for poor attendance. Why do you think they left???
Now before everyone tells me about people sweating their ass off at Florida Field or Tampa Bay or Miami I know what you are saying. But until the Bucs got Tony Dungy, that team was as dead as dead can be. And if you read the papers there, you will see that if they don't improve this year, they will be hurting. They burned through the season ticket waiting list and there were hardly any takers.
The Gators are like the Packers...the whole state pulls for them and they are the dominant team outside USC. So I don't think they are worth doing a comparison.
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on September 22, 2009, 01:41:06 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 12:44:36 PM
So, would it be a bad thing if the Jaguars went out west? Jacksonville seems to be fairly fond of Football, but LA seems like it would be even fonder.
having the team shut down the core city every time they play here, and cutting off all traffic in and out of the neighborhoods isnt really helping downtown much.
Do people really like the Jaguars here anyways?
The team is the only thing going on downtown on Sunday besides FBC.
thats because the cops completely shut downtown down and force everyone to drive out of it without stopping.
You can't be serious.. Whats the excuse for the other 44 Sundays during the year?
The economy will heat back up to normal. Companies will lease suites again. Old and new fans will return to NFL football here. It's a tough year, but it will be OK. That is the beauty of sports, every year is a new hope. Jax isn't going to get any smaller, and the local economy depends on intermodal transport and moeny in the system. We will see better days soon for our economy (if we are not taxed to death) and the Jag's can only improve from last week!
Ugly as most of that game looked, if not for the blocked FG return and Nate Hughes' drop in the end zone it would've gone down to the wire.
Yeah - they might have even had to put back in their starting quarterback! ;)
I actually thought something must be wrong with Warner; as badly as the Jaguars were playing, it was inviting disaster to put in the backup with the score 31-10 and still in the third. Vic was all over the Cards for that one. At least someone got all over them... :-\
I think the sports section on Jacksonville.com says it all at the moment
http://www.jacksonville.com/sports
The gators having the sniffles dominates the page, while the Jags news is lumped in with golf and nascar.
nice!
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on September 22, 2009, 01:41:06 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 22, 2009, 12:44:36 PM
So, would it be a bad thing if the Jaguars went out west? Jacksonville seems to be fairly fond of Football, but LA seems like it would be even fonder.
having the team shut down the core city every time they play here, and cutting off all traffic in and out of the neighborhoods isnt really helping downtown much.
Do people really like the Jaguars here anyways?
The team is the only thing going on downtown on Sunday besides FBC.
thats because the cops completely shut downtown down and force everyone to drive out of it without stopping.
And your traffic plan is what...to steer all 70,000 to the landing? 99.9% are headed for the Interstate or a bridge. The traffic plan fits the market.
You mean 38,000 :)
Fl -GA is coming up...that's when we try to fit 38,000 into the landing. :)
Mmmm... I wonder if LA is the only city looking for a team. How many of the top MSA's above Jacksonville (#58) are missing teams? Any of these would be clear candidates IN ADDITION to LA. Las Vegas is frequently mentioned. There is also Orlando, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Memphis, Portland. Even San Jose, CA, if you could get all those Silicon Valley nerds away from their computers. :D The point is there is probably enough opportunities for more than one team to be in play at the same time.
The 100 Largest Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs) and Their Populations
Based on Year 2000 Census Data
1. Los Angelesâ€"Long Beach, CA 9,519,338
2. New York, NY 9,314,235
3. Chicago, IL PMSA 8,272,768
4. Philadelphia, PAâ€"NJ 5,100,931
5. Washington, DCâ€"MDâ€"VAâ€"WV 4,923,153
6. Detroit, MI 4,441,551
7. Houston, TX 4,177,646
8. Atlanta, GA 4,112,198
9. Dallas, TX 3,519,176
10. Boston, MAâ€"NH 3,406,829
11. Riversideâ€"San Bernardino, CA 3,254,821
12. Phoenixâ€"Mesa, AZ 3,251,876
13. Minneapolisâ€"St. Paul, MNâ€"WI 2,968,806
14. Orange County, CA 2,846,289
15. San Diego, CA 2,813,833
16. Nassauâ€"Suffolk, NY 2,753,913
17. St. Louis, MOâ€"IL 2,603,607
18. Baltimore, MD 2,552,994
19. Seattleâ€"Bellevueâ€"Everett, WA 2,414,616
20. Tampaâ€"St. Petersburgâ€"Clearwater, FL 2,395,997
21. Oakland, CA 2,392,557
22. Pittsburgh, PA 2,358,695
23. Miami, FL 2,253,362
24. Clevelandâ€"Lorainâ€"Elyria, OH 2,250,871
25. Denver, CO 2,109,282
26. Newark, NJ 2,032,989
27. San Juanâ€"Bayamon, PR 1,967,627
28. Portlandâ€"Vancouver, ORâ€"WA 1,918,009
29. Kansas City, MOâ€"KS 1,776,062
30. San Francisco, CA 1,731,183
31. Fort Worthâ€"Arlington, TX 1,702,625
32. San Jose, CA 1,682,585
33. Cincinnati, OHâ€"KYâ€"IN 1,646,395
34. Orlando, FL 1,644,561
35. Sacramento, CA 1,628,197
36. Fort Lauderdale, FL 1,623,018
37. Indianapolis, IN 1,607,486
38. San Antonio, TX 1,592,383
39. Norfolkâ€"Virginia Beachâ€"Newport News, VAâ€"NC 1,569,541
40. Las Vegas, NVâ€"AZ 1,563,282
41. Columbus, OH 1,540,157
42. Milwaukeeâ€"Waukesha, WI 1,500,741
43. Charlotteâ€"Gastoniaâ€"Rock Hill, NCâ€"SC 1,499,293
44. Bergenâ€"Passaic, NJ 1,373,167
45. New Orleans, LA 1,337,726
46. Salt Lake Cityâ€"Ogden, UT 1,333,914
47. Greensboroâ€"Winston-Salemâ€"High Point, NC 1,251,509
48. Austinâ€"San Marcos, TX 1,249,763
49. Nashville, TN 1,231,311
50. Providenceâ€"Fall Riverâ€"Warwick, RIâ€"MA 1,188,613
51. Raleighâ€"Durhamâ€"Chapel Hill, NC 1,187,941
52. Hartford, CT 1,183,110
53. Buffaloâ€"Niagara Falls, NY 1,170,111
54. Middlesexâ€"Somersetâ€"Hunterdon, NJ 1,169,641
55. Memphis, TNâ€"ARâ€"MS 1,135,614
56. West Palm Beachâ€"Boca Raton, FL 1,131,184
57. Monmouthâ€"Ocean, NJ 1,126,217
58. Jacksonville, FL 1,100,491
59. Rochester, NY 1,098,201
60. Grand Rapidsâ€"Muskegonâ€"Holland, MI 1,088,514
61. Oklahoma City, OK 1,083,346
62. Louisville, KYâ€"IN 1,025,598
63. Richmondâ€"Petersburg, VA 996,512
64. Greenvilleâ€"Spartanburgâ€"Anderson, SC 962,441
65. Daytonâ€"Springfield, OH 950,558
66. Fresno, CA 922,516
67. Birmingham, AL 921,106
68. Honolulu, HI 876,156
69. Albanyâ€"Schenectadyâ€"Troy, NY 875,583
70. Tucson, AZ 843,746
71. Tulsa, OK 803,235
72. Ventura, CA 753,197
73. Syracuse, NY 732,117
74. Omaha, NEâ€"IA 716,998
75. Albuquerque, NM 712,738
76. Tacoma, WA 700,820
77. Akron, OH 694,960
78. Knoxville, TN 687,249
79. El Paso, TX 679,622
80. Bakersfield, CA 661,645
81. Allentownâ€"Bethlehemâ€"Easton, PA 637,958
82. Gary, IN 631,362
83. Harrisburgâ€"Lebanonâ€"Carlisle, PA 629,401
84. Scrantonâ€"Wilkes-Barreâ€"Hazleton, PA 624,776
85. Toledo, OH 618,203
86. Jersey City, NJ 608,975
87. Baton Rouge, LA 602,894
88. Youngstownâ€"Warren, OH 594,746
89. Springfield, MA 591,932
90. Sarasotaâ€"Bradenton, FL 589,959
91. Wilmingtonâ€"Newark, DEâ€"MD 586,216
92. Little Rockâ€"North Little Rock, AR 583,845
93. Ann Arbor, MI 578,736
94. McAllenâ€"Edinburgâ€"Mission, TX 569,463
95. Stocktonâ€"Lodi, CA 563,598
96. Charlestonâ€"North Charleston, SC 549,033
97. Wichita, KS 545,220
98. New Havenâ€"Meriden, CT 542,149
99. Mobile, AL 540,258
100. Columbia, SC 536,691
Akron Jaguars has a certain ring.
I'll c/p a post I made concerning this subject on the Jags' MB, with a couple edits:
I'm a native. I love this city, despite the flaws, and despite how mind-numbingly asinine people can be.
That said, I've finally decided I'm out if or when those moving trucks leave the lot at the stadium.
I spent 2 weeks in CA at the beginning of this month. Stayed in SD, SB, Fresno (OK, it's a hole), and San Jose visiting family and friends of the wife. She's from there (UCSB alum). I don't need to tell you how nice it can be in some spots over there.
Wife kept hinting that she'd like to move back someday. I'm thinking to myself the whole time, "why do we stay in JAX?" September 13 rolls around and I don't have access to the game. I'm fiending; and I remember, "oh, yeah, this is why; the Jaguars." Without them, I'd be gone in a flash.
(Sure, most of my family is in Nassau County, but that's what holidays and airfare are for.)
I've watched this city for as long as I've been conscious enough to pay attention. Watched them squander almost every opportunity for greatness handed to them. City blocks of historic building stock razed on slick promises we'd have steel-and-glass jewel boxes, only to lie empty as parking lots. A Downtown that used to be among the liveliest, busiest and most fashionable in the southeast--with all the arts, culture, and recreation you could want--reduced to a wasteland and holding area for every bum and professional panhandler the region can ship us, and home to three social services agencies within a square mile and a mega church who has the rest of the area on lockdown, hoarding millions in assets and real-estate, tax free.
Citizenry that places no stock in education post high-school; high dropout, illiteracy, and teen pregnancy rates. It's almost celebrated, the ignorance in this city.
What's saddest is that there's a small core of people who genuinely care about this city and want to make it a better place to live, but they get drowned out by the people who aren't happy enough to have the lowest taxes for a medium-size city in the region. They want to lower taxes and completely cripple the city government's ability to provide even basic services.
On top of all that much more important stuff, they want to run out of town one of the city's greatest benefactors, who has defended us at every turn and has done his best, although it hasn't worked out that way just yet, to win a championship for this city and give us something to be proud of.
If the people who want the team gone succeed, **** Jacksonville. I'll be done too.
Quote from: stjr on September 22, 2009, 09:32:50 PM
Mmmm... I wonder if LA is the only city looking for a team. How many of the top MSA's above Jacksonville (#58) are missing teams?
The newer population figures put the Jacksonville MSA closer to # 40
Quote
39 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI MSA Greater Milwaukee WI (2008) 1,549,308 (2000) 1,500,741 +3.24% Milwaukee-Racine-Waukesha, WI
40 Jacksonville, FL MSA First Coast FL (2008)1,313,228 (2000)1,122,750 +16.97%
41 Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA The Mid-South TN-MS-AR (2008)1,285,732(2000) 1,205,204 +6.68%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_AreasAn increase of 18 notches in just under a decade, this is one of the reasons the NFL put a team here in the first place. Although our growth was slowed this year, it's going to pick up soon. At least that's in our favor, but the rest of it's up to fan support and the franchise itself.
Citizenry that places no stock in education post high-school; high dropout, illiteracy, and teen pregnancy rates. It's almost celebrated, the ignorance in this city.
[/quote]
Agree on many of your points, but the above is a bit of a generalization don't you think? My wife is from San Jose, CA. It has its problems as well.
^
Yeah, it may be a bit over the top, but that's why I acknowledged
Quotethere's a small core of people who genuinely care about this city and want to make it a better place to live
I'm aware no city is perfect, but honestly- outside of the denizens here, is anyone else fighting for this city to realize its potential?
You guys have it all wrong, either the Jags will move to a market that is more suitable for football, like, Chattanooga or Sweet Home, or else they will cut their losses and move to the municipal stadium in Daytona Beach.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Bhcgame.jpg)
Wow man, 10,000 seats and they even have club $$ seats indoors, just think, no more black outs...ever!
OCKLAWAHA
Now that I've made fun of Daytona Beach Municipal Stadium, let me say I have attended several college or minor league games there. This place SHOULD BE a required stop on every new urban planners college course plan. It is letter PERFECT and beautiful, both sides of the field are pretty much the same as you see in the photo. Parking, landscaping, concessions, restrooms, you name it, this place would be a star performer in a city like Jacksonville, that might be able to attract some other minor league teams, in other sports. It would certainly knock off the old demon of COSTS, and bring it down to size. If you EVER have a chance to see it, do so. You can exit at the LPGA interchange and head west, the stadium is a couple of miles on your left. Follow that road and it brings up up on US 92, which will take you back to I-95 (further south) or to I-4 westbound. Another idea of course, you could just stay on 92 South and follow it to Sanford, if you don't know what central florida commuter rail is all about!
OCKLAWAHA
Its also isolated so maybe its for rural planners? (just joking)
Nevertheless, its nice for what it is. I remember going to one of my friend's high school playoff games there in the mid 90s. They played Daytona Seabreeze. Seabreeze had a kicker with an unbelievable foot. His name was Sebastian Janikowski who now plays for the Oakland Raiders.
Quote from: DavidWilliams on September 22, 2009, 11:30:36 PM
Akron Jaguars has a certain ring.
Funny that you mention Akron. In fact, the Akron Pros were the first NFL champions back in 1920.
Just thought I'd throw that little bit of NFL history out there.
Another pair of solid posts from esteemed Jags MB poster BJORN TOURAQUE:
QuoteThis was supposed to be a town that was insane for football. This was the town losing it's mind for an NFL franchise from LA or Houston or Baltimore. It was always based on fan support. The Biggest Cocktail Party in the South, home of the Sharks, home of the Bulls and all of that garbage.
Oh, wait:
Sounds a bit familiar, doesn't it?
Ironically, there's always that big talk about how great football ratings are on television here.
No one ever said that Jacksonville was a great football town, but only if they had a proven winner. I never heard talk of Jacksonville getting a team because of possible corporate dollars. It has always been built on this myth of rabid NFL fans.
What we're seeing is that Jacksonville in anything but a great football town. In fact, it's pretty close to being an awful football town. Everyone who was at the Gator Bowl screaming for Bob Irsay should slapped in the mouth for being a liar. We had 25,000 people in the stadium celebrating getting a team and only had 38,000 for the season opener? Seriously? And it's not the fans fault?
And the fact that near everyone in this town and on this board seems to think that there is a magical clause that will keep this team here against it's will is in the same delusion that this is a great football town.
Anyone remember how wonderful the economy was doing in 87-91? You know, at the same time as Jacksonville promising to buy tickets in droves? You can all keep the economy excuses too, because that's crap. No one said that Jacksonville wouldn't buy tickets in a bad economy, the whole push for a NFL team started in the middle of the worst economy the country had seen since the Depression at that time.
I'm absolutely tired of the people in this town finding every reason under the sun to not support this franchise that they begged for, and then finding any reason that can to shift blame from themselves.
At least when LA lost their teams they had the stones to give them the finger on the way out the door instead of complaining about why it's not their fault they left.
And the second:
QuoteFor me, this is personal.
I'm one of those people that the city of Jacksonville was looking to attract and get here to grow this town. I bought into the Bold New City of the South and came here. I had several friends from Southern California that moved there(sic) businesses here and sold me on this place too.
I was told that this was 1960's Los Angeles. There was rampant growth, property was cheap, the women were easy and there was no traffic. I was told that, as I knew, I wouldn't make anything out of life in California and that I should come here and stake my claim. Guess what the tipping factor was for me?
Jacksonville had an NFL team.
I bought into the fantasy. I moved here after college. I started my business. I bought my house. I got a wife. And I'm raising a child. I've committed to my community and my city. I'm rehabbing a house in an 'up and coming' neighborhood. I put in the work.
I'm doing this because I want to grow my family corporation. I want to fulfill my dreams. I want to expand. That's what you're supposed to do in life, right? Never be satisfied, always go outward and upward, right?
Well, by this city sitting it's arse on the couch, they're telling me that everything I bought into was just a bill of goods. A sham. A temporary blip in this otherwise black hole of the world. If this city lets this team go away because they refuse to back a team that doesn't PROMISE them a win, then I have to realize that I bought into and spent the last 12 years working on a lie. And that makes me stupid for believing it. It tells me that I've been waiting for a payout that's never coming.
If all of these backward hicks in this town that I've been defending for the past 12 years let this go, then I am truly the stupid one.
Do you know the number one question I get asked when people find out I'm not a native?
"Why?"
Why am I here.
And I'm starting to understand why no one in this town can understand why I'm here. Because they just don't get it. They just don't understand what is happening. They can't fathom that things don't have to be the way they are. You can strive for better. If you can't make it here, where can you make it?
Do you know that most of the people I know with season tickets are not Jacksonville natives? Of the people I work with I can count only 3 of us that have season tickets. That's California, New Jersey and Chicago. One of them even takes their severely handicapped child to the game. They wouldn't miss one. How's that for an excuse not to go? Having a child that is severely mentally and physically handicapped and in a wheelchair for life. They are still there, and the locals can't be bothered to go? The same ones that demanded to be heard nationally? Filled the Gator Bowl cheering for one? Bold New City of the South?
So, yeah. I'm mad. I'm mad at every last "fan" that grew up in this armpit that won't go and support the one thing that they have. The only thing that they have. They can't understand how this team impacts their lives everyday. I'm mad that their apathy is going to effect me. I know it, I can see it. But they are all completely unaware of what happens to this jerkwater town with the Jaguars leave. Everyone here has forgotten what has changed in this town in the past 15 years.
And all they have to do is go enjoy a game of football 8 times a year?
I guess it's back to Auto Pawn shops and praying that 38 Special will do a reunion tour.
Idiots.
Quote from: ac on September 23, 2009, 08:47:14 AM
Another pair of solid posts from esteemed Jags MB poster BJORN TOURAQUE:
So, you couldn't be bothered to give us your own thoughts. You had to take them from someone else. Good job smart one.
I shared my own thoughts, several posts before. Am I now allowed to quote someone if they said it better? Pretty please? Way to read only the last 2 posts in the thread, troll.
Quote from: ac on September 23, 2009, 09:23:48 AM
I shared my own thoughts, several posts before. Am I now allowed to quote someone if they said it better? Pretty please? Way to read only the last 2 posts in the thread, troll.
You posted quotes from a message board full of prissy little boys who know little about football and a great deal about losing. Good work.
Welcome guesswho! It is considered bad form on Metrojax... especially on your very first post... to personally criticize other posters. Please feel free to add to the discussion... in a positive manner. :)
Don't hold your breath.
Sorry for inadvertently luring the troll over here, BT.
Hahaha, "guesswhoissmarterthanyou". Good luck on here with a name like that.
Quote from: ac on September 23, 2009, 09:23:48 AM
I shared my own thoughts, several posts before. Am I now allowed to quote someone if they said it better? Pretty please? Way to read only the last 2 posts in the thread, troll.
For the record: BJORN TOURAQUE is perhaps the best MB poster I have encountered. Funny, Knowledgable of many subjects, and a great writer.
I really should invite him over here, but I don't know if he would have an interest.
BJORN TOURAQUE is KARL TORP!
BJORN is a legend.
I don't know much about the guy, but I get the feeling that much of this is up his alley.
Tebow is a Jacksonville native, and STILL attends church at FBC downtown. He was in my daughters Sunday school class one day when she was visiting.
Wouldn't surprise me if HE didn't drop the JAGUAR word himself. Trilby, (Ocks younger daughter) came away saying things like, "Dad your crazy because this whole city is full of crazys... Tim actually LOVES IT HERE!, He doesn't want to leave, EVER!
Whats this about LA's new stadium being in COI? (city of industry?) Last I heard it was to be built between two hills (natural stands that don't fall in earthquakes) out EAST of town. In fact one of the websites puts it just off Metro-Link rail, and near Light Rail. For certain if trhey go through with this, with East Los Angeles, COI, and Pomona all filling that pass, Jacksonville will no longer be considered America's crime center!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 23, 2009, 12:25:10 PM
Tebow is a Jacksonville native, and STILL attends church at FBC downtown. He was in my daughters Sunday school class one day when she was visiting.
Wouldn't surprise me if HE didn't drop the JAGUAR word himself. Trilby, (Ocks younger daughter) came away saying things like, "Dad your crazy because this whole city is full of crazys... Tim actually LOVES IT HERE!, He doesn't want to leave, EVER!
Whats this about LA's new stadium being in COI? (city of industry?) Last I heard it was to be built between two hills (natural stands that don't fall in earthquakes) out EAST of town. In fact one of the websites puts it just off Metro-Link rail, and near Light Rail. For certain if trhey go through with this, with East Los Angeles, COI, and Pomona all filling that pass, Jacksonville will no longer be considered America's crime center!
OCKLAWAHAIn o5 I went to the playoof game in Foxboro MA. Stayed in Boston. Road the metro to the game. Convenient. It's almost like it was planned. ;)
I have been known to read Metro Jax quite a bit.
Thanks for the repost.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 23, 2009, 12:25:10 PM
Whats this about LA's new stadium being in COI? (city of industry?) Last I heard it was to be built between two hills (natural stands that don't fall in earthquakes) out EAST of town. In fact one of the websites puts it just off Metro-Link rail, and near Light Rail. For certain if trhey go through with this, with East Los Angeles, COI, and Pomona all filling that pass, Jacksonville will no longer be considered America's crime center! [/color][/b]
Ironically, I went to college at Mt San Antonio Community College in Walnut, which is pretty much where this is. This is what they call the San Gabriel valley. San Gabriel Valley alone is home to about 2 million people. City of Industry is kind of a misnomer like Commerce or Hawaiian Gardens. Industry is between Covina and Pasadena and sits at the intersection of I-10 and the 605.
The vast majority of growth in Southern California for the past 20 years has been just to the East in San Bernardino and Riverside County. California has spent billions of dollars building the transit infrastructure there between freeway construction, renovation and mass transit.
It makes perfect sense to build it there and I suspect that it will be eventually. No one wants to go through the nightmare of inner city LA traffic to go to a game at the Coliseum.
MetroJax now goes to 11! Welcome, sir.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 23, 2009, 01:48:58 AM
Its also isolated so maybe its for rural planners? (just joking)
Nevertheless, its nice for what it is. I remember going to one of my friend's high school playoff games there in the mid 90s. They played Daytona Seabreeze. Seabreeze had a kicker with an unbelievable foot. His name was Sebastian Janikowski who now plays for the Oakland Raiders.
Not to steer us further off topic but I played a bit of soccer with Sebastian beack in the day. Did my first two years of high school at Seabreeze (Go Sandcrabs!) and can attest to his kicking abilities. He was a natural soccer player and new little english at the time (from Poland). I used to watch him kick soccer balls from goal post to goal post. Needless to say the football coach decided to try him out with the pigskin and it paid off dearly. As far as I know he still holds a record for the longest field goal kick at Seabreeze (60+ yards I think) and possibly holds a state and NFL record as well. He was pick up by FSU out of highschool and then went to the Raiders.
And municipal stadium is where Seabreeze and Mainland highschools play their home games. Its also used for many other exihibition games as well. Beautiful stadium (for what it is).
Janikowski has been known to still play soccer. Usually in the Jacksonville area.
Guess he's sticking around - I hear that his new home is under construction now in the Mandarin area.
The TU's take:
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-26/story/what_if_we_lose_the_jaguars
QuotePossible blackouts all season. A home opener that drew 46,000 fans. A tight economy. And news of a stadium deal in Los Angeles.
Fans, sports radio talk shows and Internet blogs across the area are buzzing with this fear: Could the Jaguars actually pack up and leave Jacksonville?...
Good article... try this link instead.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-26/story/what_if_we_lose_the_jaguars
thanks, i'm not so good with the html code apparently!
can't wait to watch the game today, I still have a few shreds of optimism for this season.
Quote from: David on September 22, 2009, 07:58:17 AM
Check out the slew of bad press slamming Jacksonville as a NFL town, all written in the last 24 hours :
NFL has no business being in Jacksonville (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-jaguars092109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
Blackouts, History May Ultimately Lead the Jaguars to Los Angeles (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/259113-blackouts-history-may-ultimately-lead-the-jaguars-to-los-angeles)
It's like these sportswriters want us to fail. A lot of them have always had it out for Jacksonville...
Did anyone notice that only 40,896 attended the blacked out Detroit Lions game today?
No major city has an NFL-ready stadium (sky boxes, luxury items, etc.) ready to go for any other NFL team. Cheap money is not there either, so why would anyone want to rush out and get money to build a stadium? The average ticket price is rediculous and so the NFL is going to have to suck it up and endure like the rest of sports world and endure.
Quote from: Bjorn Touraque on September 23, 2009, 01:59:32 PM
I have been known to read Metro Jax quite a bit.
Thanks for the repost.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 23, 2009, 12:25:10 PM
Whats this about LA's new stadium being in COI? (city of industry?) Last I heard it was to be built between two hills (natural stands that don't fall in earthquakes) out EAST of town. In fact one of the websites puts it just off Metro-Link rail, and near Light Rail. For certain if trhey go through with this, with East Los Angeles, COI, and Pomona all filling that pass, Jacksonville will no longer be considered America's crime center! [/color][/b]
Ironically, I went to college at Mt San Antonio Community College in Walnut, which is pretty much where this is. This is what they call the San Gabriel valley. San Gabriel Valley alone is home to about 2 million people. City of Industry is kind of a misnomer like Commerce or Hawaiian Gardens. Industry is between Covina and Pasadena and sits at the intersection of I-10 and the 605.
The vast majority of growth in Southern California for the past 20 years has been just to the East in San Bernardino and Riverside County. California has spent billions of dollars building the transit infrastructure there between freeway construction, renovation and mass transit.
It makes perfect sense to build it there and I suspect that it will be eventually. No one wants to go through the nightmare of inner city LA traffic to go to a game at the Coliseum.
Thanks and WELCOME! Hey you left out beautiful downtown Paramount and Compton! Retch...
My wife and I met in Santa Clarita, lived in Newhall, Long Beach, Santa Clarita/Valencia, Fresno, and there are storys that I lived in San Francisco back in the day but damned if I can remember it. I used to drive along the old Pacific Electric Railroad up Alameda from Long Beach to LA, and dream that they would change the route back to Electric Rail. Then I left Ca. and damned if they didn't do it! THE BLUE LINE! Still haven't ridden it, but have to do so, I was on one of the last Red Cars, LA to LB back about 1963. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: thelakelander on September 27, 2009, 11:54:15 PM
Did anyone notice that only 40,896 attended the blacked out Detroit Lions game today?
Hah, I feel bad saying this but...GOOD!
I think that the yahoo (appropriately named) sports writer was a bit pre-mature on writing his scathing headline about us. We'll probably see more low attendance elsewhere this year.
QuoteAn early score in the game of returning NFL to L.A.
Here are some answers to the most pertinent questions about where the league is on the issue of returning to the nation's second-largest market.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/nationworld/wire/la-sp-nfl-farmer25-2009sep25,0,4311752.story
QuoteDoes this mean an NFL team is coming to Los Angeles?
No. It's another step in that direction. There is still a long way to go until that becomes a reality.
What does it mean?
Roski's site has a significant jump on any potential competitors, because even when the process is frictionless -- and it never is -- an environmental impact report takes at least a year to complete, and usually at least two.
These things weigh heavily in Roski's favor: He controls the site, is working with a cooperative city and has cleared the runway of the last significant legal roadblocks.
So what now?
Assuming he has the stadium financing plan in place, Roski needs to go out and convince an existing team that relocation is the way to go.
What's the big question for an owner considering such a relocation?
It boils down to this: Is the cost of privately financing an $800-million stadium, giving up a piece of your team and possibly paying a large relocation fee better than what you have now?
That's the leap of faith someone will have to make.
Which teams are most likely to relocate?
San Diego is the front-runner because the Chargers have a window each year to get out of their Qualcomm Stadium lease without the threat of a lawsuit. They also want a new stadium and haven't been able to get one done there.
Jacksonville can't get out as easily, but the Jaguars are in a dire situation. Even when they tarp thousands of seats, they can't sell out their games. Others who potentially could relocate down the road are Minnesota, St. Louis, Buffalo and Oakland.
QuoteWe'll probably see more low attendance elsewhere this year.
In addition to the Detroit game, The Raiders/Broncos game was blacked out as well - 45,602 attended. Anticipate the Dolphins game in Miami this week to be blacked out & probably the Bucs in Tampa Bay - AT LEAST.
It bites, but the reality is that this is probably just the tip of the iceberg........
From The San Francisco ChronicleQuoteThe Oakland Raiders lost horribly to the Denver Broncos 23 to 3 in a game where one had to ask "Where was everyone?" The game didn't sell out but I've never seen a Broncos - Raiders Coliseum contest where most of the third deck was empty.
I'm serious. It was that bad.
The official attendance count was 45,602 people in a stadium that can hold up to 65,000 people. That's 20,000 folks short of the madhouse level of fandamonium that normally goes with this contest and its all due to the economy.
It pretty much goes without saying or writing but the San Francisco Bay Area economy is in bad shape, along with the American economy. While the unemployment rate is officially over 12 percent statewide and about 10 percent nationwide, it's got to be worse than that in reality.
I've never seen a time where most of the people I talk to are looking for work, and its people who I'm used to seeing with money in their pockets. Does the NFL adjust to this?
No.
The Blackout Rule was designed for a different time when America was rich. Not today. The idea of The Blackout Rule was to get people to go to the football games by causing sellouts, then televising them.
That's not happening today.
The Blackout Rule must be lifted otherwise the NFL will find itself with a whole bunch of pissed off television execs and NFL sponsors. Jay Mariotti of ESPN and AOL is right: NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell should lift the rule for now and the future because its not clear when this economy's going to get better.
I like that idea. If i'm not at most of our home games, it's because I don't have the money for tickets and a lot of us are going to find other ways to watch it regardless.
Like Mtrain said, the NFL just needs to suck it up this year. Jacksonville's not the only one hurtin'.
It will be ugly this year. Tampa used to advertise a season ticket waiting list of 50k+ and now you can walk up and buy a seat.
Check out this website: http://www.losangelesfootballstadium.com/images
BTW Jacksonville, it is on the COMMUTER RAIL LINE... uh? hello? like Skyway? Streetcar? "S" Line?
OCKLAWAHA
They might want to update the timeline on their website:
September 2008: City of Industry is expected to review the supplemental EIR.
If approved by the City, construction may begin as early as Fourth Quarter 2008.
The Stadium would take 2 years to complete and the first season in the Stadium could be 2011.
Certainly MetroLink is up to the challenge, what an incredible rail system in the city of "freeways!" The location is really not in Industry, it's rather between City of Industry and Covina.
If this were a new stadium in Jacksonville, we wouldn't have leaped so far out, I bet our GOB's could find another location such as along MLK, or maybe Myrtle at Moncrief? Vanilla redevelopment you understand.
OCKLAWAHA
Tampa has QB issues, as good ol Byron SANDwich just got benched for the backup. Buc fan or Brown fan, its ugly with some teams so far.
More press rooting for the Jags to fail in Jacksonville:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/F162ADABCD45277B8625765300032BD5?OpenDocument
QuoteIf you are a Rams fan whose NFL obsession is worrying that your football team might ultimately break your heart and return to Los Angeles, please pay attention to this, because Jacksonville's NFL blackout misery could potentially turn out to be an absolute blessing for St. Louis
Things are going so badly in Jacksonville that the Jaguars appear to be the most likely existing NFL franchise that could bolt to more prosperous places. And if you are a Rams loyalist, you hope the Jags jump to the front of the line in the race to relocate to LA...
The Jaguars say they are a victim of a downturn in the economy. But the odd thing is, the economy hasn't affected the sellouts only 70 miles south in Gainesville
I originally blamed the poor attendance on the economy, but that was due to my own seemingly never-ending job search. Now that I’m on the verge of affording the 8 dollar beers at the stadium again, I am reluctantly realizing that…yeah we’ve got some fair weather fans. I enjoy college football like anyone else born in this town, but I just wish more people would support something that directly affects the community vs, a college town 70 miles away.
It’s more than just a game really, it puts us in an elite national club. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had friends in distant cities who are the furthest thing from a sports fan taunt me via facebook, text messages and phone calls. We’re talking art-school type people here. (my friends in Seattle basically took pity on us after last week, sparing me thankfully) My friends in Pittsburgh cursed the Jaguars name in 2007 after their playoff defeat, and a friend’s cousin from Tennessee texted him with a message that simply read “fuck…†during the Jags rout 37-17 of the Titans last month.
It really is about civic pride, and I just wish more of our fellow Jacksonvillians would show up and support a valuable part of our community. And besides, it’s fun. We really need to learn how to deal with losing better, we’ve been a spoiled team for far too long.
Post at NBC Sports site:QuoteUSF outdrew the Bucs this weekend
Posted by Mike Florio on October 18, 2009 7:24 PM ET
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers officially announced that 62,422 attended Sunday's game between the Bucs and Panthers at Raymond James Stadium.
According to Stephen Holder of the St. Petersburg Times, the actual attendance was on 42,487.
42,487. For an NFL game in a Florida city not named Jacksonville.
As Holder points out, the crowd falls well short of the 55,073 who showed up for South Florida's Thursday night game against Cincinnati at the same venue.
The development compels the NFL and/or the Buccaneers to explain how the team is managing to avoid local blackouts. At a minimum, the folks in Jacksonville could employ the same strategy.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/18/usf-outdrew-the-bucs-this-weekend/
QuoteJacksonville is Lagging
By Jim Thomas, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Oct. 18--It was a shocking upset 16 years ago when Jacksonville was awarded an NFL expansion team over Baltimore, Memphis, and the city widely acclaimed as the frontrunner -- St. Louis.
"As an upset, I put this right up there with the Americans beating the Russians in hockey at Lake Placid," former Major League baseball commissioner Bowie Kuhn said at the time. Kuhn, who died in 2007, was a Jacksonville area resident.
"St. Louis flat out blew it," then ESPN analyst Fred Edelstein said. "They took a mortal lock and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory."
Sad, but true. Because of stadium lease and ownership group issues, the would-be St. Louis Stallions never came into being. Jacksonville, which briefly dropped out of the expansion race in July '93 because of its own stadium lease issue, got its act together in time to be awarded the NFL's 30th franchise.
There were rave reviews for the northeast Florida city, and its passion for football, when the franchise was awarded in November of '93:
-- The late Lamar Hunt, then owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, called Jacksonville, "the new frontier."
-- "It's football country there," said Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones. "There is more growth potential there."
-- "We're talking about football fans here (in Jacksonville)," Denver's Pat Bowlen said. "We're not talking about bodies."
-- "The Southeast is a terrific area for sports and it's a terrific area for the NFL," said then-NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.
But 16 years later, where's the growth, where's the passion ... and most importantly, where are the fans?
On Sunday, the St. Louis Rams will make their first regular-season visit to Jacksonville, and will be greeted by empty seats. Even with a tarp that covers several thousand seats in Jacksonville Municipal Stadium, reducing NFL game day capacity to 67,000, there will still be about 20,000 empty seats for Sunday's noon kickoff (St. Louis time.)
The game is blacked out on local television in the Jacksonville area. In fact, every Jaguars home game so far this season -- two exhibition games and three regular-season contests -- has been blacked out.
Before the regular-season even started, Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver said all preseason and regular-season games would be blacked out in 2009. There were just too many unsold seats to think otherwise.
In their first two regular-season games, the Jaguars sold only 46,520 tickets for their home opener against reigning NFC champion Arizona. Two weeks later, 49,014 tickets were distributed for an Oct. 4 contest against AFC South rival Tennessee. A similar-sized crowd is expected for the Rams.
Can the Jaguars remain viable in Jacksonville drawing so few fans?
"That's the $64,000 question," Weaver told the Florida Times-Union last month. "We know that we can't be a viable NFL city if we only sell 46,000 seats in a 66,000-seat (sic) stadium."
Weaver announced that the Jaguars would consider playing games in nearby Orlando (140 miles away) if the NFL expands its regular-season schedule to 17 or 18 games as planned.
"I still believe this market is a great NFL market and will be a great NFL market," Weaver told the Times-Union. "I don't see this as an opportunity to play half our games somewhere else. Absolutely not. I see it as an opportunity to play some out-of-market games and develop a market that's close by if the opportunity is right."
Weaver's remark set off concerns that the team could end up moving to Orlando full time if the Citrus Bowl undergoes massive renovation or a new stadium is built there. Some have even worried that the team might move to Los Angeles if things don't improve in Jacksonville.
Other than playing perhaps two or three games a year -- preseason and regular-season -- in Orlando, Pete Prisco doesn't think the Jags are going anywhere.
"Wayne Weaver has more money than he could ever spend in his entire life," Prisco said. "And this is his legacy. If the team moved, Wayne Weaver's legacy is, 'All right, he had an NFL team, but it's gone.' But if Wayne Weaver dies and the team stays here, he's always the man that brought the NFL here. And he's big on that."
There isn't a neutral observer in northeast Florida who knows more about the Jaguars than Prisco, who now covers the NFL for CBSSports.com. As an employee of the Florida Times-Union, Prisco covered Jacksonville's expansion bid in the early '90s, and was the team's first beat writer for the paper. Prisco still lives in Jacksonville and has a popular sports talk radio show there.
So what's happened to the fan support?
"When they first got here it was all new," Prisco said. "They sold 70,000 or whatever tickets because everybody wanted to go there and pe part of it. It was a place to be seen. You had the wine-and-cheese crowd from Ponte Vedra -- you know Muffy and Buffy -- coming to the games."
The team experienced success early. In their second season, 1996, the Jaguars advanced to the AFC championship game under coach Tom Coughlin. From '97 through '99, they won two division titles, averaged 12 victories a season, and made the playoffs all three years. In short, they were a hot ticket.
But the watershed moment came at the end of the '99 season. The Jaguars were the best team in the AFC with a 14-2 record. They wiped out Miami 62-7 in the conference semifinals but were upset by Tennessee in the AFC title game. Otherwise it would have been the Jaguars, and not the Titans, playing the Rams in Super Bowl XXXIV.
Four straight losing seasons followed, with Coughlin leaving after a 6-10 finish in 2003. Attendance dropped, and then the economy went south.
"So it's a combination of the economy, no real stars to identify with, and the fact that they're not winning," Prisco said.
Under Coughlin's successor, Jack Del Rio, the Jaguars were 11-5 as recently as 2007. But they tumbled to 5-11 last season and are 2-3 entering Sunday's game with St. Louis.
When asked if he'd like to see more fans at home games, Del Rio quipped to St. Louis reporters: "Do I want the Rams fans to come? No."
But seriously ...
"We are working on the product on the field right now," Del Rio said. "I know Mr. Weaver is very passionate about having this team be here, and be a stronger part of this community."
As for St. Louis Rams fans in Jacksonville -- probably not going to happen.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/136622331
Funny, they're lashing out at us because they can't get behind their own team who hasn't won a game since last year.
Pete Prisco is the man. His 930am sports radio show in the afternoons is great.
the NFL is a business
if Wayne can make more money in LA then the Jags will go there.
Quote from: Sportmotor on October 19, 2009, 06:02:51 PM
the NFL is a business
if Wayne can make more money in LA then the Jags will go there.
http://www.costar.com/News/Article.aspx?id=A4F5E5F69832AEFF5105C2B7E826626E
I had a dream last night that a major earth quake struck California along the San Andreas fault line sending the state in to the Pacific... and my first thought was "Yay the Jags are staying put!"
I'm going to hell. 8)
WW wants this team to stay here if at all possible.
The last thing we need to do is to get a sense of resignation that the team is moving and stop buying tickets. People are starting to internalize the idea that it's a done deal and it's absolutely not.
I saw this happen in Baltimore when I was growing up. The circumstances weren't the same--in this case there was a noxious owner looking for any excuse to move--but the lack of ticket sales provided him cover. Fear of a move generated the lack of ticket sales and the lack of ticket sales led Maryland to resist funding a new stadium. It became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please, please, let's not let Jacksonville repeat this cycle. Don't give the Kornheisers and Silvers who have been trashing the city for years exactly what they want. Don't feed their pathetic, shallow desire to destroy a city.
Quote from: Shwaz on October 22, 2009, 11:54:29 AM
I had a dream last night that a major earth quake struck California along the San Andreas fault line sending the state in to the Pacific... and my first thought was "Yay the Jags are staying put!"
I'm going to hell. 8)
I wouldn't be so sure where your going for this one, one thing about it, it's sure as hell going to kill a bunch of fish! Besides the big one won't hit until 2010, just remember the Palmdale bulge is not all San Andres fault.
Oh CRAP now I'm going to hell... OCKLAWAHA
:D At least I will know someone else there!
The bill allowing the environmental exemption has been signed. The Jaguars are listed as one of the seven teams targeted for relocation.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nfl-losangeles&prov=ap&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nfl-losangeles&prov=ap&type=lgns)
"The firm has said the teams are in stadiums that are either too small or can’t be updated with luxury box seats or other revenue sources an NFL club needs to thrive."
Explain to me how the Jaguars fit into this description in any way whatsoever.
Here's the advantage that Jacksonville has over the other markets: Stadium. We have a modern, revenue generating stadium. San Diego, Oakland, Minnesota, and St. Louis do not.
All we have to do is fill the stadium, and this talk goes away.
Why drag a team all the way across the country when you have two team right there to begin with? I'd imagine Oakland and San Diego being the two highest on the list, after the Rams.
Exactly! Besides, there is already a fan base established. How many Jaguar fan are there in Cali?
^Well, under that argument, the Titans wouldn't be successful. Give someone a team, and they'll embrace it.
Bottom line - we need butts in the seats. No excuses.
Quote from: reednavy on October 22, 2009, 04:24:26 PM
Why drag a team all the way across the country when you have two team right there to begin with? I'd imagine Oakland and San Diego being the two highest on the list, after the Rams.
They just dragged themselves out to Seattle a couple weeks ago. It's not like Weaver is taking the stadium. I'm sure it's probably the easiest business to move. They players are the biggest assets and they follow the money. The facility will be waiting on a team with all equipment included and the new uniforms will be delivered from Reebok.
Quote from: Jason on October 22, 2009, 04:26:53 PM
Exactly! Besides, there is already a fan base established. How many Jaguar fan are there in Cali?
Not really... besides it's not about Jags fans in L.A. - there were 0 Jags fans altogether in 1995 and when the team was announced a few hundred thousand were born (where they all went I dunno) the same scenario could happen all over again in L.A.
I think the Chargers have the best chance of moving. Their lease allows it and originally they were the LA Chargers.
But,I truly believe that the NFL owners like having LA without a team because of the leverage it creates in negotiations with their current city.
Once LA has a team it will be hard to find another NFL city in waiting.
Plus LA has had it's chance and failed twice with the Rams and Raiders and in theory the Chargers.
There was an article in SI this week about LA getting an NFL team. They listed Jax at the 4th most likely team to move. The first thing they mentioned was their lease through 2029. The Rams are for sale and have an out on their lease in 2 years.
Rams go back to LA, they should feel right at home. Question all this talk about an LA team I wonder if this team starts off losing will LA resident leave the stars to watch a team lose week after week.
If LA gets an established team I hope it is from another small market or Oakland. Somewhere that won't be a threat to steal a team in the future.
I was at the game Sunday it seemed like more than 38 thou. Wow thats bad this why we are included in this talk. I hope the Jags sweep the titians,,maybe that will inspire more tickets sells for the KC game.
I think it is pretty safe to say, teh Jags aren't going anywhere soon. There are other teams in more dire straits than we are. Those listed, especially the Rams, Raiders, and Chargers. Ironically the 3 that have been in L.A. at some point in the franchise history.
I find it hilarious people in Orlando say they can have our team, um, that will NEVER happen, as Tampa Bay has a lockdown on the other pro sports. Orlando can keep dreaming more pro sports, it'll never happen, at least in our lifetime.
They have the mouse, they should be happy with that. :)
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 22, 2009, 11:12:20 PM
They have the mouse, they should be happy with that. :)
and the Magic
The new crap from the Orlando Skyscraper City pages is that the league is going to "SHARE" our team with Orlando. This ought to be pretty funny to watch, these bozo's are going for this story like they'll be selling Jerseys next week!
Anyway, what do we care, the Jags like us, nobody is doing really great right now and one of the first things to toss into the wind is entertainment, especially $50 dollar a pop entertainment. Not only that, but I hear that the CUBS are thinking of moving to town, now won't that be funny... Let's see do we keep em Cubs or change the name to "Red Caps..."
HA!
OCKLAWAHA
Share? Well, before that is even a possibility, they gotta get the Citrus Bowl in better condition, and that is a few years away at the least. So, don't hold your breath Orlando, you'll be waiting a while.
Look for the long term dollar. No investor who wants a growth in his/her investment in a franchise is going to move to a dead market. Los Angeles, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Memphis, Birmingham, OKC, etc... these are growth regions. We have a great team and a great owner, he knows as Buffalo, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati,etc slowly rust away, in a long deadly decline, the Sunbelt is still where it is at. In terms of growth, we are near the top in population growth, and THAT is where the future dollar is at.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 22, 2009, 10:59:07 PM
I was at the game Sunday it seemed like more than 38 thou.
I am with you. It did feel like more. I sat in section 217 and it was packed. My whole row was full.
Quote from: reednavy on October 22, 2009, 11:47:05 PM
Share? Well, before that is even a possibility, they gotta get the Citrus Bowl in better condition, and that is a few years away at the least. So, don't hold your breath Orlando, you'll be waiting a while.
well they have passed a bond issue for the Civic Center area which includes a new performing arts center, a new arena for the Magic, and about $175 million in upgrades to the Citrus Bowl
I'm aware that bond issue was passed a few years back, but they don't have the money right now to redo the Citrus Bowl. Building a new arena for the Magic was the main focus, with the renovations to the CB 2nd, and new performing arts center last. However, due to the recession, any talks of either are on the back burner for now.
http://www.clickorlando.com/money/18472089/detail.html?rss=orlpn&psp=news
Quote from: reednavy on October 22, 2009, 11:09:37 PM
I find it hilarious people in Orlando say they can have our team, um, that will NEVER happen, as Tampa Bay has a lockdown on the other pro sports. Orlando can keep dreaming more pro sports, it'll never happen, at least in our lifetime.
Don't laugh so hard about Orlando. The Baltimore Orioles fought endlessly to prevent MLB returning a team to Washington, and, guess what, Washington now has a team. Distance from Baltimore to Washington: probably a bit less than Orlando to Tampa.
Fact is, if the money, stadium, support, and demographics are present, sooner or later any sports league will tolerate a team in any city, no matter the proximity of another market. (See San Francisco-Oakland, NYJ-NYG, Baltimore-Washington, etc.)
However, those markets mentioned are more able to handle such, but Tampa is having issues putting butts in seats for NFL and MLB.
They have the governator behind them now!
QuoteINDUSTRY, Calif. -- Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Thursday he has signed a bill allowing the construction of a 75,000-seat stadium that developers hope will lure an NFL team back to the Los Angeles area.
Schwarzenegger said he signed the environmental exemption bill last week but saved the announcement for a news conference in Industry, where the stadium would be built about 15 miles east of Los Angeles ...
Majestic (the developer) has targeted seven teams it plans to approach after the Super Bowl in February about move to the Los Angeles area: the Buffalo Bills, Jacksonville Jaguars, Minnesota Vikings, St. Louis Rams, San Diego Chargers, Oakland Raiders and San Francisco 49ers.
http://www.nesn.com/2009/10/arnold-schwarzenegger-signs-los-angeles-football-stadium-waiver-bill.html
I was elected to leeeeead. Not to reeeeaad.
Don't forget all the jobs that building the stadium will create! Maybe we should build a new stadium for the Jags and put people to work for a couple of years? Maybe we can add a convention center next to it and get a 2 for 1 deal out of it?
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 25, 2009, 06:59:23 PM
Don't forget all the jobs that building the stadium will create! Maybe we should build a new stadium for the Jags and put people to work for a couple of years? Maybe we can add a convention center next to it and get a 2 for 1 deal out of it?
Actually, building a convention center attached to the stadium, say where the Pepsi party area is, may be worth further thought. You would have lots of parking, it might attract hotels that could serve all the venues (stadium, arena, baseball park, Jax fairgrounds), sustain year round food and entertainment establishments in the area, have access to the river front park across the street for complimentary river-oriented activities (such as the boat show, river boat rides, fireworks, etc.) and to the stadium facilities. It would also have reasonably good access from the bridges and interstate (via MLK Parkway).
And, the convention center could host tailgating,football rallies, and sports-themed events for big games at the stadium. The only issue would be when un-realted events conflict with the stadium but how likely is that?
So... I say give this a better look!
Since JaxPort appears to be the only ones getting state money, (600 million to dredge the St. Johns River), perhaps they can give the City a loan....Lord knows the taxpayer is tapped out with the new taxes, er fees.
Why would putting a convention center down by the stadium be any better than keeping it at the Prime Osborn....in fact, it would be further from the city center (although closer to the Hyatt) and not connected via the Skyway
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 25, 2009, 09:04:06 PM
Why would putting a convention center down by the stadium be any better than keeping it at the Prime Osborn....in fact, it would be further from the city center (although closer to the Hyatt) and not connected via the Skyway
I only brought the stadium location up because Mtrain speculated, in humor, on this idea, no doubt on the supposition that sooner or later a new and larger Convention Center will be desired. If so, keeping the smallish Prime Osborn won't be an option. Maybe you know otherwise?
As to the $ky-high-way, it may be news to you, but no one is using it at Prime Osborn (or anywhere else) so that won't be missed.
stjr - You need to identify sarcasm more clearly, or maybe I need to do so. Perhaps I should let everyone know that of the 600 million needed to dredge, 200 million will come from the state and so Jaxport will be on the hook for a 400 million loan.
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 25, 2009, 09:22:52 PM
stjr - You need to identify sarcasm more clearly, or maybe I need to do so. Perhaps I should let everyone know that of the 600 million needed to dredge, 200 million will come from the state and so Jaxport will be on the hook for a 400 million loan.
As they say, there is often some truth behind humor. I guess some work harder at looking for it than others. ;)
I think Jaxport should pass on the cost of dredging to its users in the form of fees. If we are such a great spot for shipping, efficiency wise, it should pay for itself. Need the money up front? Let them bond it against port revenues. Taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize it.
Don't forget the Cubs are going to move to Jacksonville, they just can't make any money in Chicago. Perhaps adding 5 more decks to the baseball grounds would get us up to the number of seats they will require. mtrain? You think we could get a 3 for 1 deal instead? With stjr's new convention center in the Pepsi place, can you imagine the crowds and traffic it would generate in that area. Hell's bells, we might even get our own version of the Peachtree Plaza Hotel, what would we call it? stjr, keep working on this friend and I'll start drawing up a Skyway plan to connect your Convention Center with the cruise ships at Mayport. They'll be so much to see and do downtown, we won't need to connect it to central station, we can save some money! We have PCT Trolleys you know!
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, you had me until you threw in the $ky-high-way. That's a deal killer! Replace it with street cars and we are on again. :D
LOL! ;D
I am working on a Skyway alternative, a plan that JTA won't be able to resist. Trolley Boats! It's a little technical but since it doesn't need railroad track, I know they'll go for it. We string +/- twin wires over the river from bridge to bridge. Where it sags too much, we'll anchor buoys to hold up poles and arms for the wires. The Trolley boats will look like an oversized Jon boat, with a Skyway like cabin on the deck, and twin Trolley Poles, say we could even claim we have DOUBLE Trolleys. Sleek and modern, they'll just hum along all day. Did some numbers for the FTA, and I think we could expect 60,000 riders per day... Okay, well maybe that's a bit optimistic, so what about 30,000 per day? This is the first mention of this top secret project, what do you think?
Back to my Rebel Yell...
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 25, 2009, 10:45:52 PM
LOL! ;D
I am working on a Skyway alternative, a plan that JTA won't be able to resist. Trolley Boats!
Ock, you are destined to go far. JTA never saw a bad idea they could resist. Only the good ones die with them. You are sure to get Trolley Boats approved. Whatever money you want, they will find it. By the way, will your concept support advertising? That would be the clincher. ;)
Quote from: stjr on October 25, 2009, 10:59:50 PM
By the way, will your concept support advertising? That would be the clincher. ;)
Poster boards, crayons and clothes pins, bet we'd sell a million of them! We don't want to get obscene with billboards or anything like that, so 10,000 standard poster board size ad's, dangling from the trolley wires, up and down the river. Wow, what a sight at night, with the reflection of all those downtown lights and the poster boards swaying gently in the breeze. Every business in town will want an ad.
Bottles empty, going to bed... now if I could just remember where it is... OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: David on October 25, 2009, 01:44:14 PM
They have the governator behind them now!
QuoteINDUSTRY, Calif. -- Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Thursday he has signed a bill allowing the construction of a 75,000-seat stadium that developers hope will lure an NFL team back to the Los Angeles area.
Schwarzenegger said he signed the environmental exemption bill last week but saved the announcement for a news conference in Industry, where the stadium would be built about 15 miles east of Los Angeles ...
Majestic (the developer) has targeted seven teams it plans to approach after the Super Bowl in February about move to the Los Angeles area: the Buffalo Bills, Jacksonville Jaguars, Minnesota Vikings, St. Louis Rams, San Diego Chargers, Oakland Raiders and San Francisco 49ers.
http://www.nesn.com/2009/10/arnold-schwarzenegger-signs-los-angeles-football-stadium-waiver-bill.html
I was elected to leeeeead. Not to reeeeaad.
Don't understand why LA would target any team outside of the NFC & AFC west?? Jacksonville's name is only included because the media does not like the NFL being there. Do you guys watch sports center at all??? Jacksonville really should support the NFL brand in Jacksonville, but it is lame that the media is always trying to overlook the Jags even when they are doing well, there is no coverage so....the long run thing to do is support the team NOW, instead of wishing they were the Gators.
Touchdown Jacksonville revived to keep Jaguars here
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-11-04/story/touchdown_jacksonville_revived_to_keep_jaguars_here (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-11-04/story/touchdown_jacksonville_revived_to_keep_jaguars_here)
QuoteTouchdown Jacksonville, the organization that helped convince the NFL the city was ready for a professional football team, is being revived to help keep the Jaguars in Jacksonville.
Carl Cannon, former publisher of the Times-Union who led the 1993 effort, has been tapped by Mayor John Peyton to revive the group and lead a grass-roots effort to sell tickets to home games.
“Jaguars ticket sales are down more than any other team in the league,†Cannon said. “We are at a critical point in the history of the Jaguars in Jacksonville.â€
At a news conference Wednesday at Jacksonville Municipal Stadium, Cannon said the Jaguars were the only team in the NFL to have its season opener blacked out because of anemic ticket sales. He added that there’s a possibility that all home games will be blacked out.
Cannon and other leaders in the group attributed the low ticket sales to the economy and not to the Jaguars’ 3-4 losing record so far this season. There are nine games remaining.
Former Jaguar Tony Boselli, the team’s first drafted player and who has remained in Jacksonville as a businessman and philanthropist, will be an important part of the ticket sales effort along with Chamber of Commerce leaders. Boselli unveiled the group’s logo, “Revive the Pride.†...
I like the idea of creating a more festive atmosphere for the games, like we seem to do for any college game that comes to town. This may actually lure more people out for the games & keep them downtown afterwards.
Unfortunately the game the Jags have played well in this season have been blacked out. The games that have been aired this season are the games they looked like the local highschool teams, maybe even worse. With the product that has been put out this season, the ticket sales will remain low.
The Jags should try winning prior crying about ticket sales.
So you'll buy tickets "if" they win? Just another countless example of what's wrong with the fan base here in Jacksonville. Your statement is the epitome of "fair-weather" mindset that thrives here.
Why is it so hard to understand that buying a ticket guarantees nothing. The only thing guaranteed is losing cycles. It's happened to the Colts Patriots Cowboys who were all dynasty teams at one time or another.
Be realistic. The product is the game it self... not the outcome.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on November 05, 2009, 12:12:41 PM
Unfortunately the game the Jags have played well in this season have been blacked out. The games that have been aired this season are the games they looked like the local highschool teams, maybe even worse. With the product that has been put out this season, the ticket sales will remain low.
The Jags should try winning prior crying about ticket sales.
They didn't have a losing record from 2004-2007 and had to tarp 10k seats. Don't try that lame excuse.
We have been middle of the pack in attendance for most of the time.
I do not mind the fact that winning attracts ticket buyers. I just do not like it when it is on a year to year bases. You will be up and down even if you have a good owner(we do). Pittsburgh Pirate fans should never go to the games their owners do not try to win or be competitive. That said it is a bad time to be losing in a small market with an extra large stadium.
@Jax Native
If it were that simple I’d agree, but I’m willing to fork over some money every now and then just to see the home team lose, so long as it decreases the risk of them moving. Because who knows how long it’ll take for them to win again. Maybe we need this as a city, as a franchise, to learn how to deal with them losing and still get behind them, so we can build that fanbase up.
I'm not saying we're that winning of a team either, haha because Lex and Terry this morning were talking about how the Yankees had just won their 27th world series and it's like "Meh, cool" to New Yorkers, then they said "yeah it's not like if the Jags had the Super Bowl, everyone would be in the streets shooting their guns in the air, it'd be a town full of Yosemite Sams. Then "taint" jumped in of course saying "in the air? shoo, they'd be shooting straight down Cesery blvd" which...doesn't do Jax any favors on air in terms of perception, but anyways...
Back on point: 40,000 in attendance is pretty weak by NFL standards, this can't continue for long. It'll wear even Mr Weaver's patience thin. I'm glad to see the city's taking this serious by reviving Touchdown Jacksonville.
wow...BIG article on ESPN.COM about the Jaguars...
Here is headline on the NFL Page.
"8 Blackouts...45,874 Average Attendace...1 Big Question...Is the NFL Viable in Jacksonville?"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&page=hotread8/Jacksonville/Main
My post wasn't about my personal reasons for not buying ticket. The reason I do not buy tickets is that I would rather spend quality time with my family and children on the weekends. Also after having to take a 20% income cut due to the economy, I would rather spend what little disposable income I have left on items the can be shared by the whole family rather than me sitting in Jax stadium getting drunk. I am a Jags fan, I used to have season tickets before having children, but now I have a life outside of Sunday afternoons watching football . . . and it's a lot less painful than wasting a lot of money tailgating, parking, ticket prices, in-stadium prices, losing 6 hours of your life you can never get back watching the Jags play rollercoaster/embarrassing football.
Most post was more in regard to the "fair-weather mind set" and 'lame excuse" you refer to. The people are so fickle when it comes to football. Let's face it they have been spoiled by the past successful college teams of region. Unless the Jags can have kick ass mentality and records of the Gators, the people of Jacksonville will want nothing to do with you. Basically Wayne Weaver is competing with Gainesville, Tallahassee and Athens for his market place dollar.
So everyone that has the mind set of jumping all over someone for not being a Jag's fan can go F themselves. There is more to life than being able to go to 8 NFL games a year.
Do you have a personal financial investment in the team? Do you make a living off the team? Probably not, so put a cork in it and let the millionaires market themselves! Football isn't life, just entertainment.
You people who cry about a football team are pathetic. Put your energies towards something productive in society!
Jaxnative, I’ve been in the same boat for awhile man. I'm just now coming out of one of the worst dry spells of income in my life. So yeah, that's not directed at you. It’s at those who are choosing not to come to the games this year, at all. Any of them.
There needs to be a balance to the arguments of "YOU SHOULD GO TO THE GAMES YEP EVERYONE! OTHERWISE YOU'RE NOT A SUPERFAN!" and "meh, they're losing, why bother!" mentality.
I view it more as a civic duty than an allegiance to a sports team honestly, that's how I stay pumped about it. Because I’m not your typical rabid sports fan. I'd rather spend some of my Sundays doing something as well, but I’m thinking 5 or 6 Sundays a year is a fair number to give to the Jags.
If all the people who had formerly supported the team would at least do that, i'm sure attendance numbers would look far better. All 10 games would be preferred of course but like you said, it's expensive and not everyone has the time to invest in a game.
Either way if this keeps up, it won't matter in a year or two. I'll have all my Sundays free.
When they win, the tickets are still sitting there. The first drop in attendance was in 99, when the team was 14-2.
So, JaxNative, the two are mutually exclusive?
No ticket-holding Jaguars fans have lives outside of the team? We care less about our families? The money's less dear to us? That's a bunch of hooey.
I know, I know- a couple guys said mean, mean things on a message board (the horror) and got your hackles up.
I think you should heed your own advice, and not be so defensive of your decision. You just don't want to go. That's fine. You don't need to justify it. Comments like the ones you're responding to are better left ignored, because neither of you will change the mind of the other.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on November 05, 2009, 12:51:21 PM
My post wasn't about my personal reasons for not buying ticket. The reason I do not buy tickets is that I would rather spend quality time with my family and children on the weekends. Also after having to take a 20% income cut due to the economy, I would rather spend what little disposable income I have left on items the can be shared by the whole family rather than me sitting in Jax stadium getting drunk. I am a Jags fan, I used to have season tickets before having children, but now I have a life outside of Sunday afternoons watching football . . . and it's a lot less painful than wasting a lot of money tailgating, parking, ticket prices, in-stadium prices, losing 6 hours of your life you can never get back watching the Jags play rollercoaster/embarrassing football.
Most post was more in regard to the "fair-weather mind set" and 'lame excuse" you refer to. The people are so fickle when it comes to football. Let's face it they have been spoiled by the past successful college teams of region. Unless the Jags can have kick ass mentality and records of the Gators, the people of Jacksonville will want nothing to do with you. Basically Wayne Weaver is competing with Gainesville, Tallahassee and Athens for his market place dollar.
So everyone that has the mind set of jumping all over someone for not being a Jag's fan can go F themselves. There is more to life than being able to go to 8 NFL games a year.
Do you have a personal financial investment in the team? Do you make a living off the team? Probably not, so put a cork in it and let the millionaires market themselves! Football isn't life, just entertainment.
You people who cry about a football team are pathetic. Put your energies towards something productive in society!
It may not be the reason for you not buying tickets but still an obvious example of your fair-weather mind set. The team isn't "crying"... they came out and said before the season even started that it was likely most games would be blacked out.
As for this round of excuses... is it a requirement to:
Tailgate before the game?
Get drunk at the game?
Spend money on concesions at the game?
No. No. No.
The Gators losing years well outweigh their winning seasons. Even this season the t.v. ratings for the Jags are almost 10 points higher than the Gator game's ratings.
Excuses are pathetic. Start a thread about baby Einstein DVD's or "play dates" Pops.
I don't wish to change anyone's opinion. Just wanted to illustrate the replies to my post were more about people reading between the lines and make more out of what was said. In short, there are many reasons why people do not attend Jag games don’t take it so personal that only 39,999 other people in the city cared to go the game with you. If Wayne wants to move or sell the team, it’s his business decision. Isn’t the saying “If you love something, sometime you have to let it go�
ac: It takes a lot more than mean spirited posts to get my hackles up - someone trying to be a tough guy when they sheepishly sit anonymously behind their computers is something I find quite amusing.
And no I’m not accusing you of not having a life outside of the Jags or caring less about your family or that money is less dear to you. Just that we are all individual spending our time here on earth as we see fit. There is no reason to ostracize someone for wanting to spend their time differently than you. If spending time at Jax Stadium watching the Jags gets your goat, then by all means knock yourself out.
I just get a little tired of people telling me I should be putting more effort to support a team that seams to be in need of putting in more effort in the management sector. Jack and the players are doing the best with what they have, but they aren't being given much by the GM in draft picks. Wayne needs to learn how to spend money on quality players rather than on hype.
Do you realize that Weaver hired a new GM this past offseason?
...and that 6 of our draft pick's are not only starting but playing well. hahaha
Shwaz: take the football out of your ass and grow up.
1) baby einstein dvd's are a sham, there is no proof to what they claim
2) play dates are for disgruntled mom's who have no friend and hate their lives.
. . . and that Mathis and crew still can't tackle.
. . . and that if it weren't for Jones-Drew the Jags would be even worse.
. . . and that Weaver will probably be hiring a new head coach in this upcoming offseason.
And the Patriots were worse without Brady. Your point?
my point is about as pointed as the current jags season. your point?
I take it you don't have one.
I live in Virginia. I love Jacksonville. I root for the Jaguars because they are Jacksonville's team. I never want to see this city get embarrassed and scarred by losing its pro franchise, so I buy season tickets. What I can't use I give to the USO.
I will never, ever understand the sector of the Jacksonville population that seemingly revels in pointing out the team's flaws and gleefully listing reasons to not support the Jaguars.
JaxNative- I read you.
It bothers me when I see people make the comments you have, because the effort to turn it around has begun. The problem is, a team can't whiff on a majority of its draft picks for 6 years straight and expect to play well. Conversely, they can't expect blind faith in the new front office regime.
However--like the posters before me have said--the GM was changed, and we appear to have had a solid draft for the first time in years. I can't blame you for your cynicism, but there appears to be light at the end of the tunnel. Personally, I don't think getting a new coach is a bad idea. We have emerging talent on offense to complement Mojo. We need a better QB to tie it all together. We also need to focus on D, clearly.
Quality of play aside, it's interesting that you stay home for your kids. Conversely, I buy tickets because of mine. I have a 15-month-old who I want this team to be here for, so she can have the memory of going to games with her dad that I have of mine taking me to my first game when the Bulls were here. Selfishly, of course, I want that memory as a parent as well.
I don't pretend to know what your work/life balance is, so stating you have 355 other days with your family each year would be calloused and assumptive. Clearly it's important to you to be home as much as possible, and I share that belief re: my family. However, Jaguars games are just about the only "me time" I get as a consequence, and I'm protective of that as well.
Income reduction is really an inarguable issue. No one can spend money they don't have, and to earn more requires more time away from home to afford something you admittedly don't enjoy anymore.
All in all, I'm saddened by folks in your situation who once saw value in going, but gave up, regardless of the reason.
I'm interested in what it would take on the Jaguars' end to restore that value for you. I've volunteered for the Champions Club, and if selected, I'm probably going to be talking to many folks in situations like yours. Rather than badger, I want to offer them solutions where possible. So if money were no factor, and the team shows improvement, what would it take to get you back?
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 05, 2009, 02:14:06 PM
I will never, ever understand the sector of the Jacksonville population that seemingly revels in pointing out the team's flaws and gleefully listing reasons to not support the Jaguars.
It all comes back to the inferiority complex that needlessly permeates this otherwise fine city. I think a lot of it is simply a defense mechanism. Accurate or not, people think they see the writing on the wall for the team's future in Jacksonville, and choose to turn their backs on the Jags before the Jags have the opportunity to turn their backs on them.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 05, 2009, 02:14:06 PM
I will never, ever understand the sector of the Jacksonville population that seemingly revels in pointing out the team's flaws and gleefully listing reasons to not support the Jaguars.
I think it happens in every sports town. It could be worse. We could be in Detroit, Oakland or Cleveland right now.
As a city, we do tend to "break up with the hot girl way out of our league before she can come to her senses and dump us" quite often; figuratively speaking.
Either that or we treat her like crap 'til she leaves.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 05, 2009, 02:29:43 PM
It all comes back to the inferiority complex that needlessly permeates this otherwise fine city. I think a lot of it is simply a defense mechanism. Accurate or not, people think they see the writing on the wall for the team's future in Jacksonville, and choose to turn their backs on the Jags before the Jags have the opportunity to turn their backs on them.
I hate to say it, but I think you're right.
I love Jacksonville so much...it's beautiful, people are extraordinarily nice, the history is fascinating, the climate is great...and yet it constantly seems to look down on itself. And with the Jaguars' situation, it's like people are absorbing and internalizing all the garbage that's been said about Jacksonville since 1993. Statements to the effect that ticket sales have always been this bad are being thrown around like fact, and a large segment of the reaction is a bunch of people either saying "you're right, we don't deserve a team" or "I can go to the game but I choose not to because the Jaguars are unworthy, here's a list of marginally accurate reasons why!" It's incredibly frustrating to me. I love everything about Jacksonville, I always have, I argued with anyone who would listen for years and years as a kid as to why it should have a team, and I'm watching itself shoot itself in the foot while I'm buying all the tickets I can to try to help.
Whether this ship sinks or repairs itself, I'll be on it to the end. I can only hope this turns around. I've rooted passionately for a number of teams in my life, but nothing in sports has garnered more passion from me than rooting for the Jaguars. I'm not from Jacksonville, I've never lived there, but it's my city, and whether the people in the uniforms are going 0-16 or 16-0, they represent my city.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 05, 2009, 02:34:10 PM
I think it happens in every sports town. It could be worse. We could be in Detroit, Oakland or Cleveland right now.
Those fans do complain more than we do, but they complain on the way to the game, during the tailgate, at the game, and then after with friends.
A little different, right?
I will probably be back when my children have grown to the point where I am not spending every weekend coaching their t-ball, football and soccer teams. When I am not coaching their teams on the weekends, I like to take them to do the other activities they enjoy, fishing and golf. During the week, I only get to see my children in the morning for about an hour and in the evenings for about three hours, so I really value my weekend time with them. Right now they and their interests control my life . . . and I would have in any other way.
With my son's interest growing in football, I may be back sooner than I realize.
On a side note, when I was going to the games, I still bitched about their performance. Complaining is human nature.
Also, the amount of money isn't the real issue, as is the value that you get for that money. I can get angry and let down for free in this world, no need to pay for bad emotions.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 05, 2009, 02:34:10 PM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 05, 2009, 02:14:06 PM
I will never, ever understand the sector of the Jacksonville population that seemingly revels in pointing out the team's flaws and gleefully listing reasons to not support the Jaguars.
I think it happens in every sports town. It could be worse. We could be in Detroit, Oakland or Cleveland right now.
Oh, sure, the volume of negative fans is enormous anywhere. I live in the Redskins' (secondary) market, where opinion shifts violently back and forth at light speed from Super Bowl expectations to "OMG WORST TEAM EVER!!!!111!" from one week to the next (although this year, for obvious reasons it's stayed in the latter category). But we have a much smaller margin for error.
What I'm getting at is in the wake of all this depressing news about the ticket sales drop, there's a disturbing number of supposed Jaguar fans who seem to go out of their way to list all the reasons not to buy tickets or support the team (that is, on the T-U forum and jaguars.com, not really this one). A lot of them are based on antiquated facts such as the departed GM or certain departed players. It's like it's become trendy in some circles to bash the team or to brag about having the means to buy tickets, but choosing not to. There's people on the Jaguar message board who never pass up the opportunity to mention that they are no longer ticket buyers, to rip on the stadium (which I think is quite nice, especially compared to the current and former Washington ones), to advocate for driving to Tallahassee to watch the game rather than buying tickets, even to speculatively crow about whether this could be the last season in Jacksonville coming up. It's self-cannibalization.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 05, 2009, 02:29:43 PM
It all comes back to the inferiority complex that needlessly permeates this otherwise fine city. I think a lot of it is simply a defense mechanism. Accurate or not, people think they see the writing on the wall for the team's future in Jacksonville, and choose to turn their backs on the Jags before the Jags have the opportunity to turn their backs on them.
Actually i've had to snap myself out of that exact line of thinking.
It's like "well they're leaving anyway, so why bother supporting them?"
If everyone does feel that way and acts on it by not showing up, it'll only accelerate their departure. I think we're at a crossroads in our relationship with the NFL right now but there's still time to turn it around. Plus, we're not the only team L.A. is looking at.
(the following is a loosely related side rant, sorry!)
A lot of people say there's no passion in pro-football, but i've seen some of the other team's fans and I have to disagree with that. Philly nearly burnt the city down after they lost to the Pats during the Superbowl here in 2005, ok so that's misdirected passion but still, a lot of cities do have a passion for their teams. Personally I feel more of a connection with a team that shares the name of the city I live in, as opposed to a college I never attended that's 70, 160 or 350 miles away.
Plus, unlike college games, most of the ladies at the NFL games aren't twelve-fifteen years my junior so I can let my eyes wander without having to guess how old that girl who looks 22 really is.
"If a woman tells you she's 20/and looks 16/she's 12. If she tells you she's 26/and looks 26/she's damn near 40"
JaxNative-
Hey, that's fine. I don't have the skill for coaching, but I'll be in the stands for mine when the time comes.
So, about seeing value: What will it take to restore value for you? What adjustment needs to take place?
As an aside, not intending to be judgmental, but for me I had to make an adjustment in my own thought process. I had to decide that no one can let me down or anger me without my consent. Sounds like self-help BS, and I'm not always successful at it, but I have certainly calmed down quite a bit re: the Jags and my Noles, and life in general.
Quote from: David on November 05, 2009, 02:44:14 PM
Actually i've had to snap myself out of that exact line of thinking.
It's like "well they're leaving anyway, so why bother supporting them?"
If everyone does feel that way and acts on it by not showing up, it'll only accelerate their departure. I think we're at a crossroads with our relaitonship with the NFL right now but there's still time to turn it around. Plus, we're not the only team L.A. is looking at.
Absolutely right. There is a window of opportunity to turn this around. There is enough money in Jacksonville to support pro football. There is enough passion in Jacksonville to support pro football. The team has had perfectly respectable attendance in most years before this one. There are plenty of people who care about the Jaguars.
This is a critical time for the team's future in this city. The last thing anyone should do is assume defeat and hand the Tony Kornheisers and Michael Silvers the victory they've sickly been pursuing since the beginning. No one is going to do an end-zone dance over my city's misery if I can help it.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on November 05, 2009, 01:53:28 PM
Shwaz: take the football out of your ass and grow up.
1) baby einstein dvd's are a sham, there is no proof to what they claim
2) play dates are for disgruntled mom's who have no friend and hate their lives.
Coming from a guy with a Ty Webb avatar I'll take this as a joke.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 05, 2009, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 05, 2009, 02:14:06 PM
I will never, ever understand the sector of the Jacksonville population that seemingly revels in pointing out the team's flaws and gleefully listing reasons to not support the Jaguars.
It all comes back to the inferiority complex that needlessly permeates this otherwise fine city. I think a lot of it is simply a defense mechanism. Accurate or not, people think they see the writing on the wall for the team's future in Jacksonville, and choose to turn their backs on the Jags before the Jags have the opportunity to turn their backs on them.
This is the only real excuse I've heard thus far! Disliking the Jags has become fashionable... and it comes from both transplants and natives.
Can't imagine Jacksonville without the Jags...but maybe that'll make room for an NBA team!!! YEA BOY!! ;D :o
Tony Kornheiser is an idiot. How can someone become a sports reporter when they have probably never played a game of organized sports in their life. I guessing he can not throw a ball of any sort more than ten yards. I assume the only balls he has played with are his own.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on November 05, 2009, 03:08:45 PM
Tony Kornheiser is an idiot. How can someone become a sports reporter when they have probably never played a game of organized sports in their life. I guessing he can not throw a ball of any sort more than ten yards. I assume the only balls he has played with are his own.
No kidding. And I grew up around DC, so I was stuck with him for years and years before there was an Internet.
His only topics are inanities about the handful of stars he does know, claiming not to know the players on any non-marquee team (inevitably: "Go ahead, name five (Jaguars/Titans/Bills/etc.). You can't!"), making cracks about Waffle House that betray the fact that he's never been inside one, hyping the Redskins to death when they win one game, beating the Redskins to death when they lose one game, and ridiculing the bad marketing departments of certain DC-area teams (fish in a barrel). Oh, and lies about Jacksonville.
Quote from: Omarvelous09 on November 05, 2009, 03:06:54 PM
Can't imagine Jacksonville without the Jags...but maybe that'll make room for an NBA team!!! YEA BOY!! ;D :o
That'd turn me from an NFL fan to an NBA fan...
anyone for having a UFL team?
Quote from: Omarvelous09 on November 05, 2009, 03:06:54 PM
Can't imagine Jacksonville without the Jags...but maybe that'll make room for an NBA team!!! YEA BOY!! ;D :o
Losing the Jags will most likely mean losing professional sports in Jacksonville for a long time. If we can't sell out 10 home games of the most popular sport in America there's little hope that we could sell out 41 NBA home games, 81 MLB home games or 41 NHL home games.
What owner would take that risk?
I haven't ever bought season tickets but I have been to many games. I guess I will buck up now hope my fellow Jacksons feel the same sense of urgency.
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 05, 2009, 03:38:57 PM
I haven't ever bought season tickets but I have been to many games. I guess I will buck up now hope my fellow Jacksons feel the same sense of urgency.
I did the same... spent a couple of years buying tickets day of and ended up buying season tickets. It's nice not having to scramble for a ticket even if there are plenty available.
Quote from: Shwaz on November 05, 2009, 04:02:22 PM
I did the same... spent a couple of years buying tickets day of and ended up buying season tickets. It's nice not having to scramble for a ticket even if there are plenty available.
Nice to have that same seat too...now I feel like I own property in Jacksonville. Nothing makes me prouder.
Front & center - ESPN.com cover story :
QuoteSmall crowds, blackouts cloud future
Jacksonville Jaguars fight to 'revive the pride' in face of dwindling support
Comment Email Print Share
Garber By Greg Garber
ESPN.com
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Jacksonville Municipal Stadium AP Photo/Steve CannonThrough three games in Jacksonville Municipal Stadium, the Jaguars have played to 68.3 percent capacity, the NFL's lowest figure. Jaguars officials project that all eight home games will be blacked out this season.
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The RVs -- some of them had been lined up for days -- rolled into Lot E of Jacksonville Municipal Stadium at dawn last Wednesday.
More than 80 hours later, The World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party, a teeming melting pot of red and orange and blue, finally kicked off. The University of Georgia sprinted onto the field with black helmets, but the University of Florida ran the Bulldogs out of the building, 41-17.
The uber-intense annual rivalry was witnessed by 84,604 fanatics and a national audience on CBS. Afterward, the temporary bleachers in the south end zone were removed, and covers were placed over some sections in the upper deck.
On Sunday, when the Kansas City Chiefs visit the Jacksonville Jaguars, the crowd is likely to be less than half the size of that swirling Florida-Georgia constituency. It will be the league-leading fourth blackout for the Jaguars, who might well complete the season without a home game on local television; the eight blackouts team officials foresee would be one fewer than the entire NFL total in 2008.
- EnlargeWayne Weaver
Kirby Lee/Image Sport/US PresswireSays Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver: "Can an NFL team survive playing in a 67,000-seat stadium with 42,000 fans? You can't."
Late last week, when Jaguars owner J. Wayne Weaver openly discussed the team's ticket issues in his exquisitely detailed office, his frustration surfaced only once.
"Sure, it bothers me," Weaver said, frowning and clasping his large, tanned hands. "It bothers me that we've become the poster boy for blackouts. Sitting here as the man in charge of this franchise, yes, it bothers me."
The Jaguars, who didn't have a game blacked out last season, lost 17,000 season-ticket holders this season. When a proposed 75,000-seat stadium in Los Angeles recently cleared the final legislative and environmental hurdles, in many minds, Jacksonville became the leading candidate for relocation.
Even with the tarps that reduce the official capacity of Municipal Stadium to 67,164, the Jaguars are playing to 68.3 percent capacity, the league's lowest figure, worse than the Detroit Lions (76.5 percent) and Oakland Raiders (77.8), whose on-field product is clearly inferior. Jacksonville's announced attendance for the home opener against Arizona was 46,520, followed by 49,014 versus Tennessee and 42,088 three weeks ago against St. Louis. Media accounts suggest the actual numbers were significantly lower. The average ticket price is $45, third-lowest in the league, but they're not selling like they used to.
There's a lot to like about Jacksonville, an attractive, still-growing city on the bank of the St. Johns River. This past May, Sports Illustrated, citing the city's 1,220 holes of golf, proclaimed it "Golf Town USA." It has Florida's agreeable climate -- without Miami's housing costs.
But is it a sustainable environment for the NFL? Was the franchise, based on the market, dead on arrival when it kicked off in 1995? The Jaguars, instructively, remain the only major-league game in town.
Relocation, relocation, relocation
An LA group with big plans to woo an NFL team eyes Jags, six others. Garber
Jacksonville is the largest city in terms of square miles (874.3) in the contiguous United States, but the entirety of its metropolitan population is only around 1.3 million, making it one of the league's smaller markets. And while Green Bay, Buffalo and New Orleans are technically lesser populated cities, they have successfully broadened their fan base to include outlying areas.
The effects of the economic downturn have been harsh in Jacksonville. The housing and construction markets have been hit particularly hard. Unemployment is about 10.5 percent -- still less than half of Detroit's -- but the Lions benefit from a population base of 5 million-plus and from the presence of 17 Fortune 500 companies, which helps ticket sales. As local business leaders point out, Jacksonville has two such companies, both outside the top 200.
For two years now, the stadium itself has gone without a sponsor's name. When the Jaguars acknowledged they might go black for the entire home schedule, the chorus of national criticism began.
- EnlargeTony Boselli
US Presswire"It's worked here before -- and it will work again," says Tony Boselli, the Jaguars' first-ever draft choice, in 1995.
Under the headline "NFL has no business in being in Jacksonville," Dan Wetzel of Yahoo! Sports wrote, "Jacksonville as a viable professional sports market isn't going to end well. Eventually everyone will have to admit it."
Jacksonville mayor John Peyton, who said he has read the stories, said the Jaguars' plight derives from the combination of a tough economy, a small market and a big stadium.
"[The Jaguars] are a part of the fabric here, an important economic driver," Peyton said last week, sitting in his downtown office. "It's a wonderful distinction to be one of 32 [NFL cities]. It's a pretty exclusive list of cities and brings credibility to the community."
Tony Boselli, a 6-foot-7, 320-pound offensive tackle from USC, was the first draft choice of the fledgling franchise, the second overall pick in 1995. He was voted to the Pro Bowl five times in seven seasons in Jacksonville, but injuries cut short his career. Today, he lives in the area and works as a broadcaster and entrepreneur.
"I have a great love for this franchise," Boselli said, "and it drives me crazy to see it trashed like this. Unfortunately, in this world, perception is reality.
"It's not fair for everyone to jump on bandwagon and throw Jacksonville under the bus. It's worked here before -- and it will work again. But yeah, we need to sell more tickets."
A monumental upset
At a hotel near Chicago's O'Hare Airport, representatives of five finalists -- the Baltimore Bombers, Carolina Panthers, Jacksonville Jaguars, Memphis Hound Dogs and St. Louis Stallions -- made their presentations to the NFL expansion and finance committees in the fall of 1993.
The NFL hadn't expanded since 1976, when the Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers came into being, but in 1995, two new teams would open for business. The Panthers were unanimously granted the league's 29th franchise on Nov. 1, and five weeks later, Jacksonville scored one of the bigger upsets in NFL history, on or off the field.
By identical committee votes of 10-2 -- the Giants' and Eagles' owners voted for Baltimore -- the Jaguars became the league's 30th franchise. The group that had temporarily dropped out of the process the summer before, the city with the second-smallest television market, stunned the major-market favorites in Baltimore and St. Louis.
- EnlargeTagliabue
Al Messerschmidt/Getty ImagesThen-NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue was an enthusiastic supporter of Jacksonville when it was awarded a franchise in 1993.
"It became clear to the committees that the Southeast has become a tremendous area for expansion," then-commissioner Paul Tagliabue said.
Kansas City Chiefs owner Lamar Hunt went so far as to call Jacksonville "the new frontier."
"We made a great case," said Weaver, who had built his fortune with a retail shoe empire in Connecticut. "We probably oversold it."
He was smiling when he said it, but today we know that Jacksonville was, in the best of scenarios, a reach. The Jacksonville decision and the current collective bargaining agreement, seen as too generous in the minds of some Pro Football Hall of Fame voters, might cost Tagliabue a bronze bust in Canton, Ohio.
One of those voters, who is familiar with the situation in Jacksonville and requested anonymity, called the move, in retrospect, "sheer lunacy."
Out of the box, however, the Jaguars were an astonishing success. The city spent $121 million to renovate the Gator Bowl, built in 1949. The Jaguars not only made the playoffs in their second season but also, like the Carolina Panthers, reached their conference championship game. The tandem of general manager Michael Huyghue and head coach Tom Coughlin guided Jacksonville to the postseason in four of the first five seasons and won 49 of 80 games.
"Initially, we were a curiosity -- people pinched themselves. They thought, 'Wow, we're special,' " said Huyghue, now commissioner of the United Football League. "Our messaging was on point, and we started winning quickly."
Jeff Lageman, a terrific pass-rusher, arrived for that inaugural season after six years with the New York Jets. He was the franchise's first captain and today he provides radio and television analysis of the Jaguars. Last week he emerged from a film-study session at the stadium wearing khaki shorts and boat shoes.
"In New York, you were one of many," Lageman said in a soft Southern accent. "Here, you were the only team in town. In 1996, we won our first playoff game in Buffalo, and then our second in Denver. Coming back, we got a hero's welcome. They were lined up on [Interstate] 95 on the way home from the airport.
"The excitement around this town was unbelievable."
In the fifth season of their existence, 1999, the Jaguars fashioned the NFL's best regular-season record, 14-2. But they lost to the Tennessee Titans in the AFC title game and began a slow descent.
"Sometimes," Huyghue noted, "you can be too good too early. There's only one way to go -- down."
AFC South blog
Kuharsky ESPN.com's Paul Kuharsky writes about all things AFC South in his division blog.
• Blog network: NFL Nation
A fourth consecutive losing season led to Coughlin's firing and he was replaced by Jack Del Rio after the 2002 campaign. The Jaguars won their only playoff game since the millennium in 2007 and are a middling 54-52 under Del Rio. The record was 5-11 in 2008. This season's 3-4 mark includes last week's 30-13 loss to the previously winless Titans.
"Losing hurts the franchise," said 1010 XL radio's Cole Pepper, who has covered the Jaguars for 14 of their 15 seasons. "I think it's lost a little bit of its novelty. With the city's demographics -- this is essentially a blue-collar town -- the margin for error is very, very slim."
Technically, the Jaguars are committed to play in Jacksonville for another 20 years. Weaver signed a lease committing the team to Jacksonville Municipal Stadium through 2029. As of 2008, the Jags had paid rent in excess of $20 million for 14 seasons of play. In the world of sports business, deals are not always deals; historically, money -- if there is enough of it -- has been known to override signed contracts.
While acknowledging the role of the economy and the NFL's decision to place the franchise in Jacksonville, critics believe the team's management is also open to question. Building a new stadium, they say, should have been a priority. Hiring a more effective general manager and head coach following the departure of Huyghue and Coughlin, they add, would have helped.
Jack Del Rio and Maurice Jones-DrewUS PresswireUnder head coach Jack Del Rio since 2003, the Jaguars are 54-52. Jacksonville's lone marketable star is running back Maurice Jones-Drew.
The Jaguars have only one star of marketable consequence, running back Maurice Jones-Drew -- who ran for touchdowns of 80 and 79 yards against the Titans in Week 8. Maybe that's why earlier this season the owner floated the idea of selecting the Jacksonville-raised Tim Tebow in next year's draft -- even though the Florida quarterback and 2007 Heisman Trophy winner is not considered a top NFL prospect. Weaver referenced Brett Favre and the new 7,000 season tickets sold by the Minnesota Vikings, but he was criticized in online forums and in the media for pandering.
Weaver's stadium office is a showpiece. The sleek wood paneling comes from his old office in Connecticut, where he ran the Nine West and Shoe Carnival store chains. He is surrounded by family photos, and there are civic awards (he and his wife, Delores, have reportedly donated more than $40 million to charity) and about 20 footballs on the shelves.
It has been written that the Jaguars, who already had suffered through three seasons of losing money since 2000, had another negative year in 2008. Now, after the defection of 17,000 ticket-holders, what's the situation?
Weaver, wearing gold Jaguars cuff links, fixed his visitor with a steady, blue-eyed gaze.
"I don't discuss financial details," he said firmly. "Look, Delores and I love this city. We live here. I'm committed to find a way to get back to where we're not blacking out games."
And then Weaver paused.
"Can an NFL team survive playing in a 67,000-seat stadium with 42,000 fans?" he asked rhetorically. "You can't."
A new initiative
2009 NFL BLACKOUTS
According to the NFL, in 116 games this season, there have been eight blackouts of local television because the contest did not sell out in time. Here are the markets affected:
Week Market
Week 2 Jacksonville
Week 3 Detroit, Oakland
Week 4 Jacksonville
Week 6 Jacksonville, Oakland
Week 7 Oakland
Week 8 Detroit
The late-night valet at the downtown Hyatt Hotel is not a foam-finger-waving zealot who lives and dies with the Jaguars. He has been to some games -- not lately -- but described himself as a fan.
"They need to win some games," he said last week, taking the car keys. "Hey, is it true they're going to go after Tony Dungy next year?"
A professional team's relationship with its city is a delicate ecosystem of supply and demand. An NFL telecast is essentially a three-hour infomercial that powerfully reinforces the brand. The impact of local blackouts can be just as powerful, in a negative way -- out of sight, out of mind. It is just one more hurdle the Jaguars face in trying to overcome the current disconnect. According to Channel 47, the CBS affiliate that has five home games on the schedule, Jaguars games generate nearly double the ratings of other NFL games.
In the minds of the locals, the arrival of the Jaguars created a new identity, forever removing the need to follow Jacksonville with "Fla." Today, the city's leadership is feeling the pressure. As Pepper puts it, "It would be worse for Jacksonville to lose the Jaguars then to never have had them in the first place."
A month ago, the mayor began putting calls out to area business leaders.
"Look," Peyton told them, "this team is important to the city. We've got to do something about this."
The result is a new campaign, introduced Wednesday, called "Revive the Pride." It's a grass-roots effort -- the original draft language refers to a "Teal Army" -- to begin to refill the stadium on Sundays.
"This is a private sector deal, supported by the city," Peyton explained last week. "They're going to go peer to peer to sell these tickets. They did it once. I believe we'll do it again."
Peyton was referring the impressive civic push that probably landed the Jaguars in the first place. Back in 1993, when Weaver was told by the city council he wasn't to get the improvements he sought in the Gator Bowl, he pulled the plug. Later, when local leaders approached him again, asking what he wanted, he gave them specifics.
"And," Weaver added, "we need to sell all those club tickets."
That's precisely what happened. Five-year commitments were secured for the 10,000 premium club seats -- in a span of 10 days. Of course, matching that in today's economic climate would be next to impossible.
Earlier this season, Weaver, citing a league plan to add two games within the next three years, said he would consider playing some games in Orlando (after Los Angeles, the largest television market -- No. 19 -- without an NFL franchise), a little more than a two-hour drive from No. 47 Jacksonville. Unlike the more popular teams farther north along the East Coast, the Jaguars do not pull many fans from beyond a 25-mile radius.
But what happens if the Jags' local fan base does not blossom soon? The NFL officially has little to say about possible movement for any of its franchises.
"We have not yet arrived at that question [of a team in LA]," league spokesman Greg Aiello said when the subject was broached. "As you know, no team has applied to the league for relocation."
Still, there is a growing sense of uneasiness regarding the Jaguars.
"It struck me when Arizona played in the opener with 40,000 in the seats," Lageman said. "I went home and watched the Cowboys-Giants game, and they had 105,000.
"Listen, we don't need to sell 105,000 tickets, but we need to do better. Somehow we need to make the market broader, maybe put training camp in Daytona or Savannah, Ga. A lot of people need to rally here."
Weaver finds himself in an awkward position. He and his partners paid $208 million for the franchise 16 years ago, and today, according to Forbes magazine, it's worth $866 million. That's a nice return on the investment, but it's still the 29th-valued team among 32. At age 74, will the native of nearby Columbus, Ga., take the money and run to, say, Los Angeles?
Most of the people interviewed for this story who have a good understanding of the dynamic say no. Boselli, who will be heavily involved in the Revive the Pride project, thinks the city will deliver.
"I don't see Wayne moving the team," he said. "No, I don't."
But, based on Weaver's insistence that the current situation isn't workable, it certainly seems possible he might sell the team if things don't change.
Says Huyghue, who still lives in the Jacksonville area, "I wouldn't close the book on Jacksonville."
Does he worry about the team's future?
"I do," Huyghue said. "Because numbers, ultimately, don't lie."
Weaver has heard this kind of thing a lot lately. He nodded his head and said he hopes the team soon will benefit from some second-generational loyalty.
He cited a father who brought his 14-year-old son into the office to buy his first season ticket. He talked of the 26-year-old father who recently took his 3-year-old son to his first game, and of his own 6-year-old grandson, who has been going to Jaguars games since he was 2.
"I'm optimistic we're going to solve our ticket problems we're going through," Weaver said. "But it's going to take the support of the community.
"Give us the time and tenure, and we can do it. We'll rival places like Pittsburgh and Green Bay in terms of passion and support."
Greg Garber is a senior writer for ESPN.com.
Quote from: Omarvelous09 on November 05, 2009, 03:06:54 PM
Can't imagine Jacksonville without the Jags...but maybe that'll make room for an NBA team!!! YEA BOY!! ;D :o
Yuck I hate the NBA >_>
I go to all the Jags games if work doesnt take me out of town. If the Jags leave oh boy, this place is boring enough. Lets see the Gator Bowl game and Fla/Ga thats it,,I am not a NBA fan, but would probably go to a few games. You can buy Jags tickets over the phone by calling the office. I ordered tickets for the KC game Monday and they arrived in the mail Wednesday.
Maybe the city should quit double-booking signature events as well. We're torn between the Jags game & the air show on Sunday.......
Keep in mind tha that the NFL schedule is not out until April - you can't not book anything in the fall because of that.
Those that want to go to the Air Show can go on Saturday. At this point, there needs to be no more excuses. There are 7 teams being courted by LA. 6 have stadium issues. That should be the hard part.
If nothing else, the Thursday night game against Indy on December 17th is a MUST SEE. This Sunday's game is Military Appreciation Day and a great day to be at the game AND show support for our Military guys & girls. If you can, buy a couple of tickets and donate them to the USO. For a young Sailor away from home, a pro football game is a big deal.
I'll be at the air show on Saturday, but on Sunday....I'll see you at the Jags game!
How do you donate to the USO, I can afford to buy atleast two more tickets for this game?
Keith, there's a "donate tickets" link in your My Jaguars Tickets account. Either that, or call the ticket office USO at (904) 778-2821.
Ok I see that now, thanks for the info!!!
Jax isn't only 2nd tier city with Pro Sports issues:
QuoteCOLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Columbus may have trouble holding on to the NHL's Blue Jackets because the club has been losing $12 million a year in central Ohio, according to a report released Thursday by a business group.
The report from the Columbus Chamber offers a variety of options for strengthening the hockey team's financial position, such as new taxes or fees to support it.
Other suggestions include allowing the team to renegotiate its lease for Nationwide Arena or trying to attract a second major tenant, such as a basketball team.
"It is important that our community retain this team," said Dave Blom, chairman of the Columbus Chamber board. "The Columbus Blue Jackets impact our regional economy, support thousands of jobs and bring millions of dollars in tax revenue that contribute to our quality of life."
Columbus Blue Jackets President Mike Priest said that the team's current economic model has "significant disadvantages" and that it plans to work with public and private groups to find a solution.
Priest said the Blue Jackets, now in their ninth season, have built and maintained fan and corporate participation that has supported the team.
"Public partnership in arenas and stadiums has been a critical element to ensuring healthy, competitive sports franchises in markets across the country, including Cleveland and Cincinnati in Ohio, and our priority continues to be to secure long-term financial viability in this great city," he said.
Nationwide is one of the few NHL facilities in the country that is privately owned -- largely because county voters wanted it that way. They have rejected arena tax issues three times between 1986 and 1997.
The team's owners unsuccessfully asked that the current state budget include a tax increase on beer, wine, liquor and cigarettes in Franklin County to raise $65 million to underwrite a county takeover of the arena.
Local voters have repeatedly rejected public financing of the center, and the tax increase was opposed by members of the beer and wine industry, including brewing giant Anheuser-Busch, which operates one of its 12 U.S. breweries in the city.
The Blue Jackets qualified for the first time last year for the NHL Western Conference playoffs, losing in the first round to the Detroit Red Wings.
The team came to town nine years ago through significant private funding -- much of it from the late John H. McConnell of steel finishing company Worthington Industries. McConnell died a year ago, leaving his son John P. McConnell at the helm of the business.
NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription
It's already a done deal in Wayne's mind. It's just a matter of when and where. See my comment in. "How 'bout them Jags."
More like a rant if you ask me. Unless facts are presented that this is even a possibility, everyone needs to STFU about moving already.
Quote from: GENTRY on November 12, 2009, 07:24:51 AM
It's already a done deal in Wayne's mind. It's just a matter of when and where. See my comment in. "How 'bout them Jags."
I guess I should not bother showing up for the remaining game then.
:(
Quote from: GENTRY on November 12, 2009, 07:24:51 AM
It's already a done deal in Wayne's mind. It's just a matter of when and where. See my comment in. "How 'bout them Jags."
Now that we have a mind reader on the forum getting to the bottom of things should be a snap.
Even Minnesota, you know, that team with a HoF QB, a All-Pro RB, and OROY WR is still trying to sell out some remaining games.
Cleveland is having major issues, same with Detroit and Oakland. Facing blackout week after week.
Even San Deigo is having a tough sell on tickets. They go right to the deadline before getting an entity to purchase remaining tickets.
The Bengals have had to get extensions as well.
Jacksonville has a high unemployment rate, coupled with the cheaper seats being 20$ higher than other teams cheap seats and you have a problem.
QuoteJacksonville has a high unemployment rate, coupled with the cheaper seats being 20$ higher than other teams cheap seats and you have a problem.
False.
The Jags are in top 3 cheapest tickets and overall gameday experience cost.
Quote from: jandar on November 12, 2009, 10:30:24 AM
Even Minnesota, you know, that team with a HoF QB, a All-Pro RB, and OROY WR is still trying to sell out some remaining games.
Cleveland is having major issues, same with Detroit and Oakland. Facing blackout week after week.
Even San Deigo is having a tough sell on tickets. They go right to the deadline before getting an entity to purchase remaining tickets.
The Bengals have had to get extensions as well.
We are missing sellouts by like 20,000 each game. No one has been near that bad.
Quote from: Shwaz on November 12, 2009, 11:04:08 AM
QuoteJacksonville has a high unemployment rate, coupled with the cheaper seats being 20$ higher than other teams cheap seats and you have a problem.
False.
The Jags are in top 3 cheapest tickets and overall gameday experience cost.
FALSE!.
The Jags have 50$ cheap seats.
The 3rd lowest includes the overall stadium, where our lower bowl is less than most other teams.
But on an individual basis, the nosebleeds average 15$ more than most other teams.
Go look it up.
The average premium ticket price is 230$ for Jacksonville. This ranks as the 11th highest in the league.
http://teammarketing.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/News/nfl%20fci%202009.pdf
Off of Ticket Master (which Jaguars.com refers you to) Retail Ticket Prices for the cheapest seat (standing only/party pass not included)
Jacksonville: 50$Oakland Raiders: 36$
Kansas City: 35$
Miami: 41$
Buffalo: 36$
Tennessee: 43$
Indy: 44$
Houston: 35$
Cleveland: 32$
Detroit: 50$
Minnesota: 15/30$
Carolina: 38$
New Orleans: 38$
Arizona: 50$
Seattle: 49$
St Louis: 40$
Care to tell me how the cheap seats are the 3rd lowest now?
Quote from: Steve on November 12, 2009, 11:22:13 AM
Quote from: jandar on November 12, 2009, 10:30:24 AM
Even Minnesota, you know, that team with a HoF QB, a All-Pro RB, and OROY WR is still trying to sell out some remaining games.
Cleveland is having major issues, same with Detroit and Oakland. Facing blackout week after week.
Even San Deigo is having a tough sell on tickets. They go right to the deadline before getting an entity to purchase remaining tickets.
The Bengals have had to get extensions as well.
We are missing sellouts by like 20,000 each game. No one has been near that bad.
See my post above.
BTW, we are only selling 5K less than a few teams at the bottom of the rankings as well.
he said 3rd cheapest overall experience...which includes tickets, parking, and food/drinks.
btw...tickets are as low as $40 if you buy them before game day
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 13, 2009, 03:00:08 PM
he said 3rd cheapest overall experience...which includes tickets, parking, and food/drinks.
btw...tickets are as low as $40 if you buy them before game day
Still higher than other stadiums.
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 13, 2009, 03:00:08 PM
btw...tickets are as low as $40 if you buy them before game day
Or the great marketing plan that they used. Offering discounted tickets to teachers.
I can get nosebleeds for 30$, thats worth that price.
The bottom line is, we have the 2nd highest metro unemployment rate in the NFL, coupled with the 16th highest cheap seat.
Boo-hoo. Are you really not going to the game because the ticket is $7 more expensive than it is in Charlotte? Give me a break. You just want something for nothing. You want other people to go to the games so you can watch it for free on tv.
Times are tough, yada yada yada... but I sincerely doubt the sales would explode if the tickets were $33 instead of $40.
Those 44 to zip lashings aren't helping either.
It's a combination of everything, I think the 2008 season just sucked the life outta the fans and the economy only amplified it.
Quote from: David on November 13, 2009, 03:09:57 PM
Those 44 to zip lashings aren't helping either.
It's a combination of everything, I think the 2008 season just sucked the life outta the fans and the economy only amplified it.
I agree with you, but we lost one game 41-0 and a couple of others by double digits. No need to inflate it when a lot of people are seemingly looking for an excuse not to go or to trash the team anyway. The team's 4-4, not an endless victim of beatdowns.
Quote from: Tripoli1711 on November 13, 2009, 03:06:06 PM
Boo-hoo. Are you really not going to the game because the ticket is $7 more expensive than it is in Charlotte? Give me a break. You just want something for nothing. You want other people to go to the games so you can watch it for free on tv.
Times are tough, yada yada yada... but I sincerely doubt the sales would explode if the tickets were $33 instead of $40.
I don't go because I have a student loan payment of 4K plus a year, and a wife heading back for her Master's Degree in Education, while saving for my son's college.
If I had more disposable income, I would go. I don't right now.
I actually went to every game for a few years. NEZ.
So STFU with the Boo-Hoo. My bills and such make me give up a few things. The Jags are one of them.
I watch it for free anyways. I have a nice HD stream I can watch every sunday, regardless of local showings.
I make good money, I also spend shitload of it on bills and taxes.
My posting was simply pointing out that Jacksonville is not the 3rd cheapest NFL team for the cheap end, where those with the least of incomes would be purchasing it.
QuoteThose 44 to zip lashings aren't helping either.
It's a combination of everything, I think the 2008 season just sucked the life outta the fans and the economy only amplified it.
This is true David.
Quote from: jandar on November 13, 2009, 02:57:51 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on November 12, 2009, 11:04:08 AM
QuoteJacksonville has a high unemployment rate, coupled with the cheaper seats being 20$ higher than other teams cheap seats and you have a problem.
False.
The Jags are in top 3 cheapest tickets and overall gameday experience cost.
FALSE!.
The Jags have 50$ cheap seats.
The 3rd lowest includes the overall stadium, where our lower bowl is less than most other teams.
But on an individual basis, the nosebleeds average 15$ more than most other teams.
Go look it up.
The average premium ticket price is 230$ for Jacksonville. This ranks as the 11th highest in the league.
http://teammarketing.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/News/nfl%20fci%202009.pdf
Off of Ticket Master (which Jaguars.com refers you to) Retail Ticket Prices for the cheapest seat (standing only/party pass not included)
Jacksonville: 50$
Oakland Raiders: 36$
Kansas City: 35$
Miami: 41$
Buffalo: 36$
Tennessee: 43$
Indy: 44$
Houston: 35$
Cleveland: 32$
Detroit: 50$
Minnesota: 15/30$
Carolina: 38$
New Orleans: 38$
Arizona: 50$
Seattle: 49$
St Louis: 40$
Care to tell me how the cheap seats are the 3rd lowest now?
Jandar False again.
No one is talking about premium ticket average and you're the one who brought up the Jags 'oh so expensive' bottom line ticket price. You obviously ignored the the report THAT YOU LINKED of average ticket price and then posted ticket master as a source.
If you refer to the 'Team Marketing Report" that was referenced for premium prices you'll find average regular ticket prices too. The Jaguars are 2nd to last at $57.34 which is $17.65 less than the league average.
For the record I did say 3rd cheapest in "overall gameday average cost" which is what you're missing... the big picture. Again. Looking at the report you posted you'll find the prices on everything from Beer to Parking to Ball Caps at or below the NFL average.
Why can't you see these prices as reasonable? Because you still can't afford to go?
I can surely understand if someone can't afford to go and I don't think anyone intends to be critical of fans who are in that situation. And I can understand casual fans to whom the Jaguars are not that much of a priority. But when there are a slew of comments saying "the Jaguars are too expensive and that's why I don't go," and then that commentator adds that he figured out a way to watch them for free, that's when Jaguar fans who are fighting to keep them in Jacksonville get frustrated with the sense of entitlement to a free product.
Quote
Why can't you see these prices as reasonable? Because you still can't afford to go?
Because I post the cheapest seats possible. Guess what, Jacksonville isn't the 3rd cheapest.
You are showing that you took some stats classes, you are spinning the numbers to your argument.
My numbers are not false, prove that the Jags have the 3rd CHEAPEST NOSEBLEED TICKET. They don't.
Read my post, Im busy paying off JU and UNF and St Leo as well as saving for my son.
^Stay tuned to the rest of the series. This question will be answered once and for all.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 13, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I can surely understand if someone can't afford to go and I don't think anyone intends to be critical of fans who are in that situation. And I can understand casual fans to whom the Jaguars are not that much of a priority. But when there are a slew of comments saying "the Jaguars are too expensive and that's why I don't go," and then that commentator adds that he figured out a way to watch them for free, that's when Jaguar fans who are fighting to keep them in Jacksonville get frustrated with the sense of entitlement to a free product.
I've been watching them for free for years.
If I don't plan on buying tickets anyways, there is no lost revenue from me.
I have bought way more tickets than alot of those that state that we need to buy tickets probably have.
My family has lived in Jacksonville and South Georgia for well over 160 years. This is my home.
I love the Jags, but the arguments people make that they are cheap are a true fallacy.
The NFL ranks near dead last for affordability for entertainment. This is a fact.
I go to a few Suns games a year. I detest MLB and their salaries, but enjoy watching the game, so i take my son to a few each summer. I can spend 30$ for he and I and have a great time.
I can go to a movie with my wife and son and spend 25$ on a matinee with popcorn and such.
Point is, the NFL is not a cheap experience, especially in Jacksonville. I'm spending at least 150$ for my wife and son and I for 3 hours of entertainment.
Do I still go to some games? Yup, I have been to two this year. But season tickets? Nope, my student loans say pay me off first please.
Quote from: jandar on November 13, 2009, 04:16:41 PM
Quote
Why can't you see these prices as reasonable? Because you still can't afford to go?
Because I post the cheapest seats possible. Guess what, Jacksonville isn't the 3rd cheapest.
You are showing that you took some stats classes, you are spinning the numbers to your argument.
My numbers are not false, prove that the Jags have the 3rd CHEAPEST NOSEBLEED TICKET. They don't.
Read my post, Im busy paying off JU and UNF and St Leo as well as saving for my son.
You say spinning I say showing the bigger picture.
You obviously have your monies spoken for with no disposable income left for Jags tickets. I'm not arguing against that. It wasn't about your situation, more directed to your excuse that our cheapest tickets were why we have blackouts obviously inferring that we are over priced. You have to consider the average ticket price and average gameday cost to be fair and going off the report you posted we are 2nd cheapest in the league in average ticket price and at or below average price on all other expenses.
Quote from: jandar on November 13, 2009, 04:23:32 PM
I've been watching them for free for years.
If I don't plan on buying tickets anyways, there is no lost revenue from me.
I have bought way more tickets than alot of those that state that we need to buy tickets probably have.
My family has lived in Jacksonville and South Georgia for well over 160 years. This is my home.
I love the Jags, but the arguments people make that they are cheap are a true fallacy.
The NFL ranks near dead last for affordability for entertainment. This is a fact.
I go to a few Suns games a year. I detest MLB and their salaries, but enjoy watching the game, so i take my son to a few each summer. I can spend 30$ for he and I and have a great time.
I can go to a movie with my wife and son and spend 25$ on a matinee with popcorn and such.
Point is, the NFL is not a cheap experience, especially in Jacksonville. I'm spending at least 150$ for my wife and son and I for 3 hours of entertainment.
Do I still go to some games? Yup, I have been to two this year. But season tickets? Nope, my student loans say pay me off first please.
You're right, it's not cheap, and I don't mean to be rude. I know there's a lot of people who want to go who can't financially justify going. I know there's a lot of people who believe that the cost of tickets is not worth the entertainment value of the live stadium experience, and everyone's obviously entitled to their opinion on the matter. (As you might guess, I love being able to go to the stadium.) Surely everyone who posts on here who's passionate about ticket sales understands all that too.
I've just been getting frustrated lately with a number of Jaguar fans who initially cite ticket prices as their reason for not going, but then it turns out they've been doing things like driving out to Tallahassee to watch the games, or ultimately reveal that their real reason for not attending is the opinion that only teams who stomp their opponent every week are worth watching. And some of them (on the Jaguar message board, I mean, not here) practically revel in the fact that they've found ways to watch the game for free and gleefully encourage others to not buy tickets. That attitude, I'll never understand because it will cost the city the team and I badly want them to stay. It was unfair of me to assume you were proposing the same. I've just gotten sensitive on the overall subject.
I wish you many more years in Jacksonville, many great experiences at Jaguar games or other venues with your family, and that all families in Jacksonville will always have the option to experience Jaguar home games.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 13, 2009, 03:20:30 PM
I agree with you, but we lost one game 41-0 and a couple of others by double digits. No need to inflate it when a lot of people are seemingly looking for an excuse not to go or to trash the team anyway. The team's 4-4, not an endless victim of beatdowns.
The game @ Seattle was our 2nd worst loss in team history, no need to inflate! That game was utterly devestating. I was literally depressed for 3 days, but went to the Rams game the next week and hung in for that nail biter.
That game against the Jets today gave me heart palpitations, very intense.
The season's barely over halfway over and we've already won as many games than all of 2008 combined. It can't be any worse than last year. So that's a ray of sunshine for all fans who feel defeated. The only way to go is up. :D
It is just entertainment. If you don't want to spend $100, don't go. I think the games are loads of fun and I enjoy the day. I think that the team builds a lot of civic pride as have the NFL teams in other cities that I have lived in. There will be bad years and good years, just like any sports team. Isn't that part of the fun?
For those of you that are not used to this board, don't let the negativity get to you. Many on this board wail about the failings of Jax, Jags, local anything, etc. This is a great city and the Jag's have outperformed most NFL teams and have certainly entertained us over the last fifteen years.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 12, 2009, 09:21:04 AM
Quote from: GENTRY on November 12, 2009, 07:24:51 AM
It's already a done deal in Wayne's mind. It's just a matter of when and where. See my comment in. "How 'bout them Jags."
I guess I should not bother showing up for the remaining game then.
:(
No. You most certainly should show up. I do. It's just unfortunate that we don't have enough devoted fans. I'm sure if you go to the games you can attest that it's really not that expensive. Jacksonville simply has a bad case of apathy when it comes to buying tickets. Think about how many big name talents don't tour through Jax. Think about how many big name talents cancel due to lack of ticket sales. Even though a promoter may cite a cold or sore throat as the reason for cancellation.
Go to the games. I'll be in the nose bleed seats LOL.
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 12, 2009, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: GENTRY on November 12, 2009, 07:24:51 AM
It's already a done deal in Wayne's mind. It's just a matter of when and where. See my comment in. "How 'bout them Jags."
Now that we have a mind reader on the forum getting to the bottom of things should be a snap.
UGH. I can't believe how many people are blind in Jax. Even the national sports commentators are bringing the subject up. I'll make it simple. Wayne Weaver owns a business. The business is not doing well. What does Wayne do?
A. Sell the business?
B. Close up shop and absorb the loss?
C. Go broke waiting for things to get better?
D. Take a chance in a market substantially larger?
Don't you remember the market size was the fear of the NFL from the start? How many games have you gone to? I'll show you my stubs. I'm not a mind reader, I'm just intelligent.
They've been talking about Jax for years, how is this any different this time? Seriously, what was the major shift to make trash talking about a Jacksonville NFL franchise be brought to the national level.
They did it when we got the team, the Super Bowl, and it is no different.
That said, you're part of the problem, talking about how they're leaving, it is a done deal, etc. Until facts are brought forward the Mr. Weaver is in deed moving the team, shut up about moving and spreading fear, that's all your kind of talk is doing.
Either put up or shut up, seems like a pretty simple thing to do IMO. I honestly don't really care for the NFL because I'm a college guy, but if I can, I go and support, even if I am a Titans fan. I support the team that is here, just like everyone else should be doing in any sort of way, whether it be at the game or just having a bumper sticker, let it be known.
Hell, yesterday I saw a man wearing a Jaguars visor up here in Murfreesboro, right outside of Nashville, and people actually recognized the logo.
Quote from: GENTRY on November 16, 2009, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 12, 2009, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: GENTRY on November 12, 2009, 07:24:51 AM
It's already a done deal in Wayne's mind. It's just a matter of when and where. See my comment in. "How 'bout them Jags."
Now that we have a mind reader on the forum getting to the bottom of things should be a snap.
UGH. I can't believe how many people are blind in Jax. Even the national sports commentators are bringing the subject up. I'll make it simple. Wayne Weaver owns a business. The business is not doing well. What does Wayne do?
A. Sell the business?
B. Close up shop and absorb the loss?
C. Go broke waiting for things to get better?
D. Take a chance in a market substantially larger?
Don't you remember the market size was the fear of the NFL from the start? How many games have you gone to? I'll show you my stubs. I'm not a mind reader, I'm just intelligent.
There is a serious problem but if you do not have inside info you may want to quit disparaging the motives of Jax's most benevolent citizen.
The only stub I saved was from the fisrt game.
Just an FYI- Touchdown Jacksonville! Is holding a "pep rally" at 5:30 tomorrow, 11/17, in the West Club area of the stadium. Open to all, park in lot J.
They'll be going over some of their plans and introducing a discount offer for the Colts game on 12/17, which is their focus for this season. Maurice Jones-Drew and Tony Boselli will be in attendance.
QuoteFor all our twitter & fb friends! Pep rally tomorrow 5:30 at the stadium! Mojo & Boselli will be in attendance! Park in lot J
http://twitter.com/TouchdownJax (http://twitter.com/TouchdownJax)
The Browns averted their first local TV blackout of their expansion era when they had to team with ESPN, Budweiser and a local TV station to buy up the remaining tickets for Monday night's game against the Baltimore Ravens. Wow - I think that a MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL game blackout would have been unprecedented.
Quote from: GENTRY on November 16, 2009, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 12, 2009, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: GENTRY on November 12, 2009, 07:24:51 AM
It's already a done deal in Wayne's mind. It's just a matter of when and where. See my comment in. "How 'bout them Jags."
Now that we have a mind reader on the forum getting to the bottom of things should be a snap.
UGH. I can't believe how many people are blind in Jax. Even the national sports commentators are bringing the subject up. I'll make it simple. Wayne Weaver owns a business. The business is not doing well. What does Wayne do?
A. Sell the business?
B. Close up shop and absorb the loss?
C. Go broke waiting for things to get better?
D. Take a chance in a market substantially larger?
Don't you remember the market size was the fear of the NFL from the start? How many games have you gone to? I'll show you my stubs. I'm not a mind reader, I'm just intelligent.
Not doing well? How much did Weaver pay for the Jags, around $200 million?
Their current value $800 million? I would say he is doing fine. He might be hurting in the short term but the value of his business has appreciated considerably.
Recently NFL teams have only moved because of stadium and city issues not ticket sales.
There is no doubt the Jags must produce a more consistent product on the field and do a better job marketing off the field.
As a Jax native I am shocked with the overall lack of interest in the Jags but Jacksonville has always been a walk up crowd and very band wagon oriented. Plus now with some many transplants there are not a whole lot of hard core Jags fans.
Overall it is hard for me to imagine a "realistic" scenario in which the Jags will move in the next 5 years. But if Weaver were to die tomorrow everything could change.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/6275/black-and-blue-all-over-stadium-hiccup
QuoteBlack and Blue all over: Stadium hiccup
November, 18, 2009 Nov 187:34AM ETEmail Share By Kevin SeifertAn interesting twist worked its way through Minnesota’s efforts to secure a new stadium Tuesday. It’s a pretty complicated bureaucratic issue, but Jay Weiner of MinnPost explains the bottom line here. Essentially, the commission that owns and operates the Metrodome has asked the Vikings to drop their primary leverage -- the 2011 expiration of their lease -- in exchange for financial breaks at the stadium.
That would come in the form of extending their lease at the Metrodome while seeking local options for new construction. If they do not extend, the commission proposes to reinstate rent charges that were dropped earlier this decade.
Vikings officials were livid with the request and called the offer a “non-starter.†A team spokesman said owner Zygi Wilf was “outraged†that the commission is seeking to extend its time in the Metrodome rather than working toward financing and building a new facility.
What does all this mean? From this vantage point, at least, it looks like the Vikings aren’t getting the speedy cooperation on a new stadium they had hoped. It continues to suggest they’re headed toward a crisis before this issue gets resolved. If both sides stand firm, the Vikings’ lease will expire without a new local stadium to move into, making them “free agents†if they seek to move elsewhere.
I'm a huge Jags fan. In fact, I learned of this site though Kristin aka Erasergirl on the Jags message board.
That disclosure is to qualify the following: NFL franchises are way out of bounds demanding new stadiums and upgrades from Municipalities. These expenditures are frivolous and quite unneccesary. To blackmail a partner city into going into massive debt to satisfy a singular franchise is beyond the pale.
Municipalities should unite against these franchises and say "You want it, You build it!" The taxpayers have already built at least one stadium for each team. These stadiums are fine.
The only reasons a municipality should build a new stadium are structural concerns or an opportunity to see real and short-mid term financial gain as a result of the investment.
Quote from: buckethead on November 18, 2009, 10:52:23 AM
I'm a huge Jags fan. In fact, I learned of this site though Kristin aka Erasergirl on the Jags message board.
That disclosure is to qualify the following: NFL franchises are way out of bounds demanding new stadiums and upgrades from Municipalities. These expenditures are frivolous and quite unneccesary. To blackmail a partner city into going into massive debt to satisfy a singular franchise is beyond the pale.
Municipalities should unite against these franchises and say "You want it, You build it!" The taxpayers have already built at least one stadium for each team. These stadiums are fine.
The only reasons a municipality should build a new stadium are structural concerns or an opportunity to see real and short-mid term financial gain as a result of the investment.
Buckethead, well said. I agree. Stadiums have become the nuclear arms race of sports. It's way out of hand. You are there to see a game, not tour a stadium "theme park" for which the game is secondary. In a way, I find it funny that people spend all the money to go to the stadium and then effectively glue their eyes to the stadium screens full of commercials as if they were at home still watching on TV :D
You both seem to be missing the point. You are 100% correct in the reasoning that cities should not be forced to build new stadiums... but... no one is forcing them. Of course they may just leave and go to a city that will build a suitable stadium. Citizens simply have to decide what they want. If the cost of a stadium is too high then you must not be too concerned about a team leaving. BTW... the HHH Metrodome is a dump.
QuoteYou are there to see a game, not tour a stadium "theme park" for which the game is secondary.
This may be factually correct... but in reality it is not. Most NFL and other sports rely on the "secondary" income streams from the other experiences at the stadium. Food, Bars, luxury boxes, museums, collections, exhibits, meeting and banquet facilities. Most new stadiums are doing business 12 months a year.
The 49ers STILL play at Candlestick or whatever they are calling it now. They are about to lose the team to the San Jose / Santa Clara area as voters there are ready to vote for a modern new stadium in the south bay. The team will of course move. They may be still called the San Francisco 49ers but they will be playing and practicing in San Jose / Santa Clara.
The Battle of the Bay aka the Earthquake World Series was hosted in part at Candlestick. If I were a San Fransiscan, I'd be outraged at the suggestion to demolish the stadium.
Fenway, Wrigley, Lambeau and other such historic venues show that historic venues can perpetuate tradition and build mystique.
VIVA SUPERDOME!
Quote from: buckethead on November 18, 2009, 05:53:28 PM
The Battle of the Bay aka the Earthquake World Series was hosted in part at Candlestick. If I were a San Fransiscan, I'd be outraged at the suggestion to demolish the stadium.
The Cow Palace, which I'd probably consider equally if not more historic, is on the chopping block as well from what I understand.
Okay, so we agree to a Super Dome of our own, (no more then 55,000 seats PLEASE) and the team agrees to stay long term. Sign on the dotted line. Question is, does the owner get a streetcar AND a Skyway link. Hum? I wonder... How quickly City hall could become transit savvy? Perhaps this could be a "hail Mary," pass for more then just a threatened teamless city.
Q. Ock, you wouldn't stoop to tipping off the Weavers of your transit scheme just to get them to demand it would you?
A. WHO'S STOOPING, HELL I'M JOGGING TO THEIR HOUSE!
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteFenway, Wrigley, Lambeau and other such historic venues show that historic venues can perpetuate tradition and build mystique.
Lambeau has been upgraded drastically and repeatedly over the years. It is state of the art. Luxury boxes surround the bowl. The Packer hall of fame is within the facility. High end gift shops and restaurants are well attended and used. Weddings, and banquets are catered within the building. These are all "secondary" revenue streams for the team and without them the team would have issues with survivability.
The 49ers, Vikings and others also want these "secondary" incomes and new facilities are the way to do it. I am sure some San Franciscans are "outraged" but definitely not enough to prevent the move to the south bay.
If L.A. commits to a new state of the art stadium... some team and owner will move there.
Just say hypothetically that the Jags move to LA. How long would it take LA citizens to get bored with them, if they continue to play the way they are, and stop attending games? LA has had NFL teams in the past and lost them. I remember the days when Jax did not have a team and other teams constantly talked about moving here in order to get what they wanted from their own city? If I remember correctly one of those teams was from LA?
Is this whole story just a bunch of hype in an attempt to energize the city and to get the people of Jax into the stadium? I believe so. Like I have always said, if you want to increase your fan base and attendance, you need to increase your on the field performance. You have to remember how long this city was without an NFL team. Many people in this city grew up loving football and our favorite football teams where either college teams or other NFL teams, because there wasn't a team in our city. It is hard to ask someone to quit being a fan of a team that they have loved since early childhood and start being a fan of a new expansion team. My early childhood heros were Jack Lambert, Mean Joe Green, Terry Bradshaw, Rocky Bleier, Mel Blount, LC Greenwood, and Franco Harris. To this day I still find myself rooting for the Steelers. Tampa went decades before they really got a true local fan base and that fan base came from finally having success on the field. The Jags need to realize that building a true local fan base and non-local fan base takes decades and I hate to say it, takes winning.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on November 19, 2009, 02:34:26 PM
Just say hypothetically that the Jags move to LA. How long would it take LA citizens to get bored with them, if they continue to play the way they are, and stop attending games?
How do you think they are playing?
Last year, bad.
This year, roller coaster, one game good, the next like they're a high school team.
Don't get me wrong, I root for the Jags every weekend they are on the field. And I even wear their swag around town. But you have to admit, some weeks they make it tough.
QuoteLA has had NFL teams in the past and lost them.
Why did the teams move from L.A.? Are you sure the fans were bored? The Rams moved... Ta da... because St Louis offered em a shiny new stadium. Why did Al Davis move from Oakland to L.A.? Because the Rams moved to a new stadium he figured L.A. would spring for a shiny new stadium for the Raiders. (They were playing in the freeking Rose Bowl) When that didnt happen he got Oakland to renovate the old stadium and he moved back.
It is all about those secondary money streams that only a new stadium can provide...
When LA commits to building a new one... some city in the NFL will lose a team to LA. GARE UN TEED. :)
Quote from: JaxNative68 on November 19, 2009, 03:00:37 PM
Don't get me wrong, I root for the Jags every weekend they are on the field. And I even wear their swag around town. But you have to admit, some weeks they make it tough.
I've never found rooting for a team that represents my favorite city to be tough. I don't care if they go 0-16.
(I mean, I
do care if they go 0-16--it just won't change the level of my rooting interest)
Maybe the new owners of the rams will move them back.
Just off the top of my head...
Baltimore Colts to Indy... new stadium
Cleveland Browns to Baltimore... new stadium
St Louis Cardinals to Phoenix... new stadium
LA Rams to St Louis... new stadium
Houston Oilers to Tennessee... new stadium
Raiders to LA and back to Oakland... hopes for a new stadium(and Al Davis is nuts)
Potential movers due to stadium issues...
San Diego, Minnesota, Buffalo?
Quote from: JaxNative68 on November 19, 2009, 03:00:37 PM
Last year, bad.
This year, roller coaster, one game good, the next like they're a high school team.
Don't get me wrong, I root for the Jags every weekend they are on the field. And I even wear their swag around town. But you have to admit, some weeks they make it tough.
They are 5-2 in the last 7 games.
And yet attendance hovers around 40k...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 19, 2009, 05:52:04 PM
And yet attendance hovers around 40k...
This is Jacksonville,,anybody know how many black outs the 0-16 Lions had?
three last year. And they were the WORST pro football team I ever saw
That really says something about Jacksonville,,really!!!!!!
Jacksonville can obviously do much better than 40k, but Jacksonville is a market completely unique to the NFL. You can't compare the Jags to the Lions, at least not in 2009. It's apples and oranges in many ways. The Lions have 70+ years of rich history, spanning generations of fans. More importantly, they have a metro area of nearly 5.5 million, along with 8 major Fortune 500 companies (with a combined revenue of nearly half a trillion dollars). The Lions avoiding blackouts is less an accomplishment than an inevitability, and in fact, Jacksonville drawing 40,000 to a game is probably a far more impressive statistic given the size of the market. Truth of the matter is, Jacksonville has to work much, much harder on a per capita basis than anywhere else in the league to make this thing work. Seems almost counterproductive to keep knocking the folks of Jacksonville by comparing Jags' home attendance to ___________ (insert massive metro here).
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on November 19, 2009, 09:35:05 PM
That really says something about Jacksonville,,really!!!!!!
Except that it doesn't, really. Consider, the Lions were founded (or at least affiliated with an organization) in 1930. So the team has been in existence for almost 80 years, with a following in one of the most populous urban areas for at least 50 years before their "decline" started. which means you have 2-3 generations that have grown up with cheering for the team, through the good times and the bad.
I can speak to this because I'm from Cleveland...the team that is currently fighting the '08 Lions for Steve's title of "WORST football team ever." But it would never occur to me to stop rooting for the Browns, because it's what I grew up with, it's what I knew, and what two generations of my family have ingrained min me. I'll be willing to bet that's the same for the majority of the original AFL/NFL teams.
So what you're comparing are teams that have built themselves into their respective civic consciousnesses (and civic areas that were considered dominant until a recent decline) for decades to a team that has existed for 15 years, in an area that's still building an identity. A lot of the current "teams that suck" have existed for so long that it doesn't occur to the fans to NOT support them. Not that they haven't had their rough areas, but the fans are still around. Compare - the Jags, still in the playoff hunt, might have every home game blacked out, to the Browns, a team that might never win another game this season and with late season games in less than ideal environments, but might not have a single blackout.
The only thing that compares is how established the fan base is. The short term view is "Jacksonville can't support an NFL team." The long term view is "How loyal is the fanbase after 50 years of existence?" Can we find that out now in an era of instant news, with multiple competing entertainment venues, in a region that has enough to enjoy outside of concentrating on its sports team? I'm not sure. But comparing the Jags to any team having issues that's been in existence for a significant period of time is utterly unfair. It's simply a question of whether or not the current economics of the league will allow a team like the Jags the time it needs to establish itself, or whether short term economic interests will win out in the end.
I'm not knocking anybody, but the excuses need to stop also. You mean to tell me we can't get 60 thou in that stadium. If not Jags pack up and go now. Stop with the excuses.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 19, 2009, 05:52:04 PM
And yet attendance hovers around 40k...
That is an indictment on this town not the team. They are winning.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Umyc50uTt0c
I can't believe he made a terminator reference...
"da day we will do here this cermonial signing of the legislation that will terminate the frivolous lawsuit and clear da way for thastruction."
for all of you that have sh*t on me for opening my mouth about not attending games:
My son has finally shown an interest in attending a Jag's game! That means, yes count them, two more, possibly three more, will be in the stadium for Jags/Dolphins game. And yes I know they play the Texans before that, but he wants to see the Dolphins, so I might as well give him what he wants for his first live NFL game. Hopefully the Jags will have an answer to the wild cat, and they should they are cats after all, not a water breathing mammal.
ac: watching my son enjoy his first live NFL experience, that is what I call value for my dollar!
Awesome, man.
I can't wait 'til my little one's old enough to go! At 16 months, she loves Jaxson and can already recognize the team logo, and signals "Touchdown!" I just hope the team can weather this rough patch, rack up the new fans and win back some more old fans along the way.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on November 23, 2009, 04:27:49 PM
for all of you that have sh*t on me for opening my mouth about not attending games:
My son has finally shown an interest in attending a Jag's game! That means, yes count them, two more, possibly three more, will be in the stadium for Jags/Dolphins game. And yes I know they play the Texans before that, but he wants to see the Dolphins, so I might as well give him what he wants for his first live NFL game. Hopefully the Jags will have an answer to the wild cat, and they should they are cats after all, not a water breathing mammal.
ac: watching my son enjoy his first live NFL experience, that is what I call value for my dollar!
Hope you have a great time! I will be at that one too, coming down from VA. I'll have a semi-casual Packer fan with me who I hope to convert.
Quote from: ac on November 23, 2009, 04:36:34 PM
Awesome, man.
I can't wait 'til my little one's old enough to go! At 16 months, she loves Jaxson and can already recognize the team logo, and signals "Touchdown!" I just hope the team can weather this rough patch, rack up the new fans and win back some more old fans along the way.
I've given plush Jaxsons to about all the children I know...he's a great ambassador to have on our side. I recently had a conversation about him with my best friend's three-year-old.
ME: What's his name? (pointing to Jaxson)
HER: Jaguar.
ME: But what is his name?
HER: JACKSONVILLE jaguar.
I felt like I'd accomplished something.
For all you worry-warts, you should see what the Minnesota Vikings are having to deal with in regard to their stadium issues. The Twin Cities want the Vikes to sign an extended lease, the Vikes said hell now, as if to push a new stadium referendum, and the Twin Cities went and rescinded a 4 million a year rent clause that the Vikes now have to pay. You think a few blackouts are an issue here? What happens when you piss off an NFL owner, do you think he wants to keep a franchise in that city?
Look for the Vikes to move before Favre retires again, or whenever LA opens their stadium.
Yeah but nobody's being blasted like we are though.
QuoteYeah but nobody's being blasted like we are though.
Does anyone here read the Times Union? Geez, Vic, the Jags beat writer wrote about the Vikes plight in the Sunday paper. Minnesota is mentioned along with a handful of other teams as having an issue this season. But when the colts moved from Baltimore to Indy, it was because the Owner did it, and got what he wanted.
Owners make the rules and Weaver plans to stay here, he is very happy in Jax. He has roots and ties to the community, and the City has bent over backward to help, as they should.
Nice, but the Jags and the fans are being blasted big time. Times Union - dont have money to waste. I read Vic on the Jaguars site.
You have to remember, everyone outside of Jax blasts Jax. And the Times-Union, what a worthless rag. Everything written in it has already been posted to other prominent news web sites days before. Honestly, I think the Times-Union writers get their info and write their stories based on other news websites. They are always two - three days behind everyone else.
Keith - 55 cents a day for a full year's subscription. A can of coke costs more. Stop being a cheapskate.
JaxNative - No one, not the Daily Record, MetroJax, Folio will tell you what you learn in the TU on a Sunday about the NFL as a league. Not pushing for TU Subs, but you would not have learned about the Minnesota story without help from the TU, so give them some credit. They do have some great local stories that no one else covers. Again for 55 cents a day, less than a cup of latte, which your body does not need, you can read about the local news and keep current with the world.
I dont drink coke, and I dont care if it was free!(Times Union)
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 26, 2009, 12:14:00 AM
Keith - 55 cents a day for a full year's subscription. A can of coke costs more. Stop being a cheapskate.
JaxNative - No one, not the Daily Record, MetroJax, Folio will tell you what you learn in the TU on a Sunday about the NFL as a league. Not pushing for TU Subs, but you would not have learned about the Minnesota story without help from the TU, so give them some credit. They do have some great local stories that no one else covers. Again for 55 cents a day, less than a cup of latte, which your body does not need, you can read about the local news and keep current with the world.
Or I can get the same news hours if not days before from online for free.
The only thing exclusive to the TU would be editorials.
Even the sports columns and such are released to the AP, or on their own website.
Do you know that Tarrell Brown (the 49'ers starting CB) might be demoted this week? What, the TU did not report it? Wow, its been on the wire for 10 hours now as of this posting.
Its like the Black Friday deals now. I don't buy the thursday paper, and abhor all the ads in the mail i get 2-3 days before hand.
I get a nice compiled spreadsheet with all of the deals. That allows me to look at them, price shop them with normal prices a week or two ahead to see if they are actually a deal. (most are not, moreso if you value standing in line for 12 hours to be worth a couple bucks an hour)
Time has passed the Times Union and most other newspapers by.
Why go to the TU for classified ads for jobs and such? I can get free ads from Craigslist (even ebay tries to sue them) and monster.com, hotjobs, etc.
The TU needs to be a niche player to survive. Get exclusive content that other sources won't have. That's why Folio Weekly still does well (at least I think so). The TU needs to stop being a national news source, and focus local only.
A report on TechCruch states it all:
QuoteIt’s not the “paper†part of newspaper that’s the problem, it’s the “news.†As in, newspapers are way too slow at delivering it in the age of the Internet. People are unsubscribing from newspapers because what’s the point of reading something in print a day after you’ve read it online?â€
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 24, 2009, 11:38:43 PM
For all you worry-warts, you should see what the Minnesota Vikings are having to deal with in regard to their stadium issues. The Twin Cities want the Vikes to sign an extended lease, the Vikes said hell now, as if to push a new stadium referendum, and the Twin Cities went and rescinded a 4 million a year rent clause that the Vikes now have to pay. You think a few blackouts are an issue here? What happens when you piss off an NFL owner, do you think he wants to keep a franchise in that city?
Look for the Vikes to move before Favre retires again, or whenever LA opens their stadium.
It would be sad to see such a classic NFL franchise like the Vikings leaving that city. They've got great fan support and tradition. True they've got some things to work out in terms of contract extensions for the dome and getting the city to support a new stadium but it wouldn't be right for them to move the team from such a great sports city. It would be a major blow to the league if we no longer saw a Vikings/Bears or Vikings/Packers matchup. Why don't you just move the Pats, Giants and Steelers while you are at it.
Quote from: midnightblackrx on November 28, 2009, 10:23:43 AM
[
It would be sad to see such a classic NFL franchise like the Vikings leaving that city. They've got great fan support and tradition. True they've got some things to work out in terms of contract extensions for the dome and getting the city to support a new stadium but it wouldn't be right for them to move the team from such a great sports city. It would be a major blow to the league if we no longer saw a Vikings/Bears or Vikings/Packers matchup. Why don't you just move the Pats, Giants and Steelers while you are at it.
It's amazing how the Pats have come to be grouped in with the other "heritage teams" in a remarkably short amount of time. In the early 90s they only had about 17,000 season ticket holders and blacked out every game, and were rumored to be moving to St. Louis. At one point Charlie Rice from Barnett Bank looked into buying them and moving them to Jacksonville.
Just more proof that winning matters!
just had someoen come back from LA today, there is a big buzz about them getting the Jags there apparntly. Atleast that is what the majorty over there seem to think that will be the best bet to get
Quote from: Sportmotor on November 28, 2009, 02:27:19 PM
just had someoen come back from LA today, there is a big buzz about them getting the Jags there apparntly. Atleast that is what the majorty over there seem to think that will be the best bet to get
And... there was a big buzz about St. Louis or Baltimore getting the Jags franchise... until it was announced otherwise.
Fact is, the fans and the press will be the last to know anything. NFL owners are a private club and make decisions behind closed doors. Buzz is just a rumor mill in high gear fanned by the media trying to attract eyeballs and I wouldn't put any stock in it whatsoever.
Support the Jags with ticket purchases and everything "may" be OK. That's the best we can hope for. If Wayne were to sell or lose control of the team by death or incapacity, no one could say right now what a future controlling interest would do regardless of our support and another city's desires.
I know that this is business and it is about money. But until proven otherwise, I'll take WW at his word that he will not move the franchise.
Quote from: NotNow on November 29, 2009, 11:43:28 AM
I know that this is business and it is about money.
Correct so how smart is it business wise to admit to moving a team next year, leaving even less fans coming to games and less money coming in for the remaining season.
I believe that WW is a man of integrity and that he would not stand up and lie. After all, he is not a politician.
For the Jags to move, they have to break the stadium lease.
To do that without paying a penalty (that could range from 100-200 million) they need to do the following:
Show that they have lost money for 3 straight years.
Good luck getting them to open the books. Sports writers would have a field day with any inside NFL info.
Someone could buy the team for around 8oo million, pay another 100-200 million in the penalty to the CoJ, and then move them to a new stadium.
So a new owner would be dropping over 1 billion before a stadium.
Not as cut and dry as people think.
The Jag's contract with the stadium is coming up soon.
Quote from: Sportmotor on November 29, 2009, 09:55:50 PM
The Jag's contract with the stadium is coming up soon.
like in 20 years?
Quotepay another 100-200 million in the penalty to the CoJ
Does that mean the City might have a surplus???? Damn, I forgot the underfunded Police and Fire pension funds.
I doubt that allowing a city auditor to view the books would also mean Sports Illustrated would get a look too. Paper Losses can be created pretty easily too.
That can be true Vic. However, imagine the backlash, if the NFL (with its revenue sharing and multibillion dollar TV contracts) has a team 3 years in the red.
This wouldn't just be a slap against Jacksonville, but against the NFL as well.
The team revenue from NFL contracts with TV is over 125 million a year. That pays for the players salary with left over to spare.
The ticket revenue is split 60/40 every game. So not only do the Jags get 60% every home game, they also get 40% for each of the 8 road games. (after misc fees, etc. each team gets about 33% total ticket revenue as the visiting team). (this does not include club seats, boxes, etc)
So, the Jags would need to show that they have outspent their share of ticket revenue. The players salary is already covered.
Quote from: vicupstate on November 30, 2009, 08:25:30 AM
I doubt that allowing a city auditor to view the books would also mean Sports Illustrated would get a look too. Paper Losses can be created pretty easily too.
Not so sure, Vicup. Anything the City touches is covered by the State's public records law as far as I know. I would actually expect it to be very public.
Just look how the NCAA lost out over their investigation of FSU. The law is very broad.
Yup, sunshine laws would apply big time to this.
More to the point of LA, I really think that the noise about the Jaguars is more of a smoke screen for another team.
San Diego could stay the same division, and keep most of the same fanbase by moving to LA.
100 miles away. The chargers have a 56 million buyout every year from Feb-May that decreases each year.
So yes, while the big attention is towards Jax and Minnesota and Buffalo, the local news in San Diego sees some things as well.
San Diego also has a marketing arm in the Orange County area.
Go read the San Diego Chargers forums. They are as concerned about losing their team as we are.
Even they faced a blackout yesterday with an 8-3 record and leading their division.
BTW, from a recent article:
QuoteSan Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders announced in April that the Chargers should be allowed to look around the county for a stadium deal because city officials need to focus on fixing a $1.43 billion employee pension fund deficit and other financial and legal matters
I don't believe we'll lose the Jags, but I definitely don't see Del Rio and Garrard sticking around longer than another 2-3 years. If Tebow does get recruited by the Jaguars, God help him not get hurt and get a coach who knows what to do with him.
I think Tevo...Tebow will make a good tight end.
At this rate I belive we will lose the jags eventually. Course if they keep playing like they did it wouldnt be a suprise.
Tebow as a tight end...glad someone else said it ;)
ESPN INSIDER has an article posted today from Adam Schefter titled "IT WON'T BE THE L.A. JAGS" - Jacksonville unlikely to move to Southern California, but unfortunately, I'm too cheap to pony up $2.50 to read it.............
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2ffeatures%2frumors
Haha. I just saw that on espn.com, and came straight to here hoping that someone had copied and pasted it. Hey, I'll throw in $0.25 toward the $2.50 we need. Maybe we can get a metrojacksonville.com espninsider account!
Can get the away games blacked out as well? That was a tough one to watch. I had to chew on my tongue to keep from blurting out what was truly on my mind in front of my young son.
^ It is a shame that on a game the majority can actually they lay an egg like they did Sunday...It's a hard pitch to make sales after that!
Found this clip today of the Director of Development talking about the new LA stadium and their immediate plans. He claims a 50/50 shot of a team (or 2) playing in the Rose Bowl in 2010 and he is 100% sure there will be a team (or 2) playing in 2011.
Notice the only substantial conversation of a possible team was the Jaguars complete with video clips of last weekends game.
http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/sports/nfl-football-future-in-los-angeles-20091201 (http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/sports/nfl-football-future-in-los-angeles-20091201)
They are the easy target but the truth is that it is much more likely the Rams or Raiders will move back due to their stadium issues and the fact that both teams are either fully or partially for sale.
I really hope so Copper... but if Weaver doesn't see a rise in ticket sales this summer it could very well be the death knell.
It seems L.A. is hell bent on using the Jaguars, when were the least likely team to go.
^We fill the stadium, the talk goes away - bottom line.
Quote from: reednavy on December 03, 2009, 12:58:59 PM
It seems L.A. is hell bent on using the Jaguars, when were the least likely team to go.
In the 80s, teams like the Oilers and Falcons used the threat of moving to Jacksonville to coax stadium construction and renovation out of their home cities.
Twenty years later, Jacksonville has a team but the city is still being used as a bargaining chip.
This is bizarre.
NPR's Neal Conan is in Jacksonville today, hosting NPR's national talk show from here, "Talk of the Nation" during this hour, 2 to 3 PM. Here is one of the features he is doing on the show as a result:QuoteDue to the NFL's blackout rule, Jacksonville Jaguars fans haven't been able to see their football team play on TV. Neal Conan and Florida Times Union columnist Abel Harding talk about whether the blackout rule gets fans off couches and into stadiums.
A replay of the show from NPR's web site will be available after 6 PM at:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121057843
QuoteMayor Peyton Proclaims Dec. 17 "Revive the Pride Day"
Council President Clark Dec. 17 resolution announced
JACKSONVILLE, Fla., Dec. 3, 2009 â€" Mayor John Peyton will be joined by Jacksonville City Council President Richard Clark and Touchdown Jacksonville committee members Carl Cannon and Tony Boselli at a press conference tomorrow as he proclaims Dec. 17 as “Revive the Pride Day.†Members of The Roar and Jaxson de Ville will also be on hand for the announcement.
WHEN: Friday, Dec. 4 10:30 a.m.
WHERE: City Hall â€" Atrium 117 W. Duval St. -- 32202
.
Council President Clark will also make a special announcement regarding a resolution he will introduce to the full Jacksonville City Council regarding Dec. 17 activities.
Revive the pride, did we ever have any to began with?
I'm not sure the people of Jacksonville really appreciate what they have with the Jaguars. It's really sad that people don't support the team.
I don't want to hear the excuse that there is not 67k Jaguars fans in this town because the Jaguars used to be 15th in overall attendance.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 03, 2009, 09:27:26 PM
Revive the pride, did we ever have any to began with?
just think for a minute...the Jags worst attendance has been this year and let's say they've drawn 40,000 per game....in a metro are of 1.3 million people
now for comparsion, Philly used to have problems filling 66,000 seats in a metro area of 6 million people...Tampa Bay is struggling this year in a metro area of 3 million...and Miami (metro area of 5 million) consitently has trouble selling out....San Diego, St. Louis, Detroit, etc.
So, proportionally....we're doing quite well!
You maybe right, but Jacksonville will always be the poster child to pick on. Who's getting the most media play out of this regaurdless of what other teams are doing. Guess we will see what happens next year. Really though people here have no pride in this city, so what chance does a football team has that wins ugly and loses badly.
QuoteSo, proportionally....we're doing quite well!
It's good to be #1 in attendance (per capita) - See, there's always a silver lining!
This problem cannot and will not be fixed with individual fans buying tickets. Sellouts were caused when BUSINESSES purchased blocks of seats and boxes. The empty seats and boxes are due to the consolidation of banks and local businesses, and piss poor marketing attempts of the Jaguars to sell to the local businesses.
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on December 04, 2009, 03:34:11 AM
Hey Wayne on your way out to "L A" don't forget Your Promise to the City of Jacksonville and it's people that you would STAY!
What about the City and the people of Jacksonville's promise to the Jaguars that the team would be supported here in Jax? The Weavers and the Jaguars have been loyal to Jax, but it's the people and "fans" that have not reciprocated.
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 04, 2009, 06:36:53 AM
This problem cannot and will not be fixed with individual fans buying tickets. Sellouts were caused when BUSINESSES purchased blocks of seats and boxes. The empty seats and boxes are due to the consolidation of banks and local businesses, and piss poor marketing attempts of the Jaguars to sell to the local businesses.
Could not agree more. In other NFL cities it is very difficult for the "common man" to get good tix to their games. Most NFL stadiums have huge blocks of their best seats purchased by businesses. The average fan is relegated the end zones or the upper bowls.
No wonder the endzones in most stadiums are rowdy.
There is a problem with how our city recruits business to town. Our plan is to try an attract business's who will take our money (JEDC) instead of those who want the best communities to operate from. Therefor we spend our money greasing corporate palms instead of investing in better quality of life in our city.
The companies who just want to be paid off to be here IMO would be less likely to invest in tickets that improve the Jacksonville experience. Those companies who place a higher value on the community in which they operate are more likely to participate in the goings on of the community.
To be realistic we are so far behind the curve in educating our work force, transit and cultural endeavors we will still need to be in the bribery game for a while. We do have some natural advantages the river, the beach, the golf, the weather, gateway city in Florida with less retirees than the other metros, the port and the military are a good start.
This city can be the guy who gets the girl because of what it has going for it and not because he paid her.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 03, 2009, 09:27:26 PM
Revive the pride, did we ever have any to began with?
Did you live here in 1993? How about after the Jaguars won at Denver in 96? We had more people welcome the team back to Jacksonville at 1am after that win than we probably will this Sunday against Houston.
Our Chamber/JEDC/DDA they all are challenged to get businesses down here. JeffreyS, I agree with you, they really stink at selling the benefits of what our great city has to offer. As a result, we see the Tampa, Orlando, Miami markets flexing their muscle in the legislature, and we, get the 4th serving, which normally is little if anything.
I googled the poulation rankings for cities, and Jacksonville a very suprising 11th in the nation in terms of population for the entire city (Duval County = Jacksonville). In the data I collected for our company to market to businesses, we saw that there are only about 300 companies in Jacksonville with more than 100 workers. That leaves a lot of small businesses and individuals.
We need to grow that number of companies with over 100 workers, that should be the goal of the Chamber/JEDC/DDA, give away money to bring in more companies, because the value of every $1 spent is that the money gets recycled into the economy 3-4x before it is saved somewhere else. We need more larger companies, because they affect every small business owner.
One of my tenants tells me she is working at a local restaurant and she is only bringing home 25 bucks a night in tips, this time last year she was at 100 a night. When individuals are scared, they ain't buying Jags tickets, so that is when Businesses need to step up to the plate and purchase them.
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 04, 2009, 09:28:43 AM
I googled the poulation rankings for cities, and Jacksonville a very suprising 11th in the nation in terms of population for the entire city (Duval County = Jacksonville). In the data I collected for our company to market to businesses, we saw that there are only about 300 companies in Jacksonville with more than 100 workers. That leaves a lot of small businesses and individuals.
I think there are alot of people employed by the military too.
QuoteI think there are alot of people employed by the military too.
Sure there are, more than 40,000 and the governments employ many people too, but its on the backs of businesses that brought the team here and will keep the team here.
Absolutely true. Barnett, First Union, and CSX put the famous 1993 club seat ticket drive over the top. Now that some of the companies that were driving forces behind getting the Jaguars in the NFL are subsidiaries of outside companies and/or have less local autonomy, much more of the ticket-buying burden has fallen on individual fans. The stadium could still be filled (or very close to it) in 2004-2008 under these circumstances but not this year. Getting the corporations more involved is crucial to leading the Jaguars' future in the city out of critical condition.
Quote from: blizz01 on December 03, 2009, 10:57:18 PM
QuoteSo, proportionally....we're doing quite well!
It's good to be #1 in attendance (per capita) - See, there's always a silver lining!
I was formerly in line with this way of thinking, but it is not actually true. The numbers for a Philadelphia or a Chicago are in a vacuum and do not consider other events. Yes, perhaps per capita we do the best with football attendance. For Philadelphia, factor in how many people go to the 81 Phillies games a year, the 41 76ers games a year and the 40whatever Flyers games a year. Then add in Temple, Villanova, UPenn, Drake and whatever the other "big 5" school there is and how many football and basketball games a year attend those. Then figure out your per capita statistics and it reveals itself as another Jacksonville excuse. There is no "comparatively we aren't doing that bad". We ARE doing that bad. People need to go to games, period.
FYI, the informal Philly basketball "Big 5" are Temple, UPenn, Villanova, LaSalle, and St. Josephs. Temple, Penn, and Villanova also field conference football teams. Drake isn't in Philly. You are probably thinking of Drexel. Not a member of the original Big 5 put now appears to play most or all of those teams anyway. There are also many other smaller colleges in and around Philly (in both Pa. and NJ) such as Philadelphia University (formerly Philadelphia Textile), Bryn Mawr, Haverford, and Swarthmore. And, major graduate and specialty schools, such as Jefferson Medical University.
So can we factor in Flagler College, Edward Water, JU and UNF?
Quote from: Tripoli1711 on December 04, 2009, 09:56:36 AM
Then add in Temple, Villanova, UPenn, Drake and whatever the other "big 5" school there is and how many football and basketball games a year attend those.
I assume you mean Temple, Villanova, Penn, LaSalle, and St. Joe's....they are the Big 5....and as STJR stated, some throw in Drexel too....personally I'd drop 'Nova since they aren't even in the City (and I hate the Big East)
Here are a few renderings of LA's proposed stadium, which will be about 25 miles east of downtown.
(http://static.losangelesfootballstadium.com/photo-1.jpg)
(http://static.losangelesfootballstadium.com/photo-2.jpg)
(http://static.losangelesfootballstadium.com/photo-3.jpg)
(http://static.losangelesfootballstadium.com/photo-10.jpg)
(http://static.losangelesfootballstadium.com/photo-6.jpg)
(http://static.losangelesfootballstadium.com/photo-4.jpg)
Jerry Jones eat your heart out. Nice!!! Who wouldn't want to play there. Will it happen though, and is LA going to support a losing team.
So, a bankrupt state is going to build this monstrosity and cough up a billion or so to purchase an existing team? Nice priorities California.
the bankrupt state isn't doing it...a billionaire owner is!
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 05, 2009, 09:18:11 AM
the bankrupt state isn't doing it...a billionaire owner is!
Surely the billionaire owner wouldn't be doing it without tax subsidies, correct? And tax subsidies are foregone tax revenues for the state.
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 05, 2009, 09:18:11 AM
the bankrupt state isn't doing it...a billionaire owner is!
Is he funding the stadium as well?
What is so great about those renderings is the amount of retail there...That is one thing that I wish could have been incorporated here
QuoteWhat is so great about those renderings is the amount of retail there...That is one thing that I wish could have been incorporated here
Great point Dan! This goes back to those "secondary" income sources that are so important to teams...
I'm sitting here thinking...imagine people who would go to a stadium like that for the retail and then get "pulled" into the gameday spirit...and maybe a few of them actually buy game day tickets if they are available because of that retail presence.
The design also reflects the difference in a city with a population of 1 million vs 13 million.
IIRC, Los Angeles has already failed to support two franchises previously.
QuoteIIRC, Los Angeles has already failed to support two franchises previously.
They were playing at substandard facilties... That is why they left.
^ Considering the Raiders left the L.A. Coliseum that stadium had to be even worse than substandard!!!
The raiders left Oakland after the Rams left because of the stadium... Al threatening the city of Oakland he would move unless they renovated the stadium. Oakland called his bluff. LA promised a new stadium but never came through with one. Oakland convinced Davis to move back with the promise to renovate the old stadium. They did but it is still a baseball stadium... it still lacks ameneties and luxury boxes and Al will always look for a better place to move his team.
"support" of the team by fans was certainly never an issue in Oakland... It could be argued that the Rams moved partly because of that but the real issue has always been the stadium.
More unsettling video from a LA news station:
http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/sports/nfl-football-future-in-los-angeles-20091201
They're pretty focused on our Jags in this news segment. They're also talking of building the stadium to house two NFL teams, not just one.
Please, they're lucky to get one, but certainly not two. The NFL would not allow that much risk with their track record.
It is amazing they're so focused on one team because of ticket sales, pfft. When other teams are in dire straights, you'd really think they'd look jsut down the road to San Diego.
Jax is just an easy target, and always has been. I watched the video and saw nothing unsettling. Plus, her facts are messed up, they haven't lost money every, yet. I find it just funny that they are certain this will happen when they have to find a team to purchase first. It sounds simple with money being thrown around, but it isn't that easy.
They have 3 teams within the state right now to pick, so search in your own backyard before talking about moving a team across the country.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on December 05, 2009, 10:09:56 AM
QuoteWhat is so great about those renderings is the amount of retail there...That is one thing that I wish could have been incorporated here
Great point Dan! This goes back to those "secondary" income sources that are so important to teams...
sure, but they have admitted the stadium will be built firsat followed by the other stuff....the same waqs promised in Philly and has not happened yet.
btw...yes, the ownership group will be building the stadium too.
Quote from: reednavy on December 05, 2009, 12:50:20 PM
Jax is just an easy target, and always has been. I watched the video and saw nothing unsettling. Plus, her facts are messed up, they haven't lost money every, yet. I find it just funny that they are certain this will happen when they have to find a team to purchase first. It sounds simple with money being thrown around, but it isn't that easy.
They have 3 teams within the state right now to pick, so search in your own backyard before talking about moving a team across the country.
heh, everyone is so picky about word choice on this site. We're all saying the same crap, just 50 different ways. I find it pretty "unsettling" though. Even if it's just propaganda. It's just the thought of those greedy bastards salivating over our team. It triggers off the 8 year old in me...it's like "NO LA! NO! CAN'T HAVE OUR JAGS! NO! MINE! We had them first, no fair!
I agree with going after the teams in their own backyard first. They should stop focusing on us so much and look at the other teams that are up for grabs.
Though I would certainly argue that expansion has really hurt the quality of play in the NBA, MLB, and NHL, it's a shame the NFL can't just make a one-time exception for LA. From a business standpoint, the NFL really does need a team out there. It's the second biggest television market in America and you've got to think LA would make a pretty great Super Bowl host city as well. With a sparkling new stadium and the billions upon billions of corporate dollars floating around LA, I do think a team out there would be a huge success and a great thing for the NFL. I just don't want it to be our team. On the same note, it would be heartbreaking to see teams like the Vikings or Bills ripped from their homes as well. Shame you've got to root for another city to lose their beloved franchise in order for ours to stay.
the Jags aint leaving! Stop the madness! look everyone. the nfl is perfect at 32 teams. the rotation n rivalries r great! ok if the Jags go to to La, will they still be in da Afc South or Afc West? If they go, it ruins the both rivalries wit Texans n Titans. y do u think they put mia in the Afc East instead of the Afc South? it makes better sense for a west team to move there. Rams, Raiders or Bolts....not the Jags! the media hates Jacksonville with a passion. The media dont want a team there
the media is trying to persaude everyone else to suddenly hate Jacksonville as an NFL city. We have been seeing this bias since 96. Its a Media vs Jacksonville thing n if u pay taxes in Jax, u should take it personal, even though its a business attack. St Louis aint selling out there games neither is Detriot, Buffalo, Cleveland or Oak land. Do they get attacked!? Nope! the media likes those markets. Citizens of Jax have to c the big picture. its not even about football, its about pride.
.....pride n lack of respect. The Media has no respect for the Jacksonville market. I think its time u people start hitting back.....Dont let the media bully u guys into depression. Love ur city, by loving UR team when they need it most. Can buy tickets, hey buy a hat or shirt or jersey. A small investment is an investment!! Im in Atlanta n i wear Jags shit everyday. own 3 skull caps, 2 hoodies, n a set of Jags gloves...invest yall. im 5 hrs away and doing it.
before i go, sorry bout da b2b post. im posting from my phone. In downtown people watching. bama n gator fans all over the place!! Go Bama!
Now will the local media get behind the Jags and prop them up, or will they continue to try to be Gainesville East and talk nothing but Gators and Tim Tebow?
From the NY Times:QuoteDecember 7, 2009
N.F.L. May End $100 Million Revenue-Sharing Fund
By JUDY BATTISTA
N.F.L. owners are prepared to end a small sliver of revenue sharing that helps shore up the league’s lowest-revenue teams.
The owners informed the players union that starting with the next league year in March â€" which would be the start of an uncapped season if no new collective bargaining agreement is reached â€" owners will not share a $100 million fund. Nine teams at the bottom of the revenue pecking order drew from that pool this season.
The $100 million represents a tiny fraction of the $6.5 billion â€" much of it money generated from television contracts â€" that all 32 teams share. The decision was first reported by ESPN on Sunday.
The players union plans to fight the move before a special master because it contends that the collective bargaining agreement gives it the right to approve or challenge any changes to the revenue-sharing model. The players union is concerned that even the loss of a relatively small amount of money could imperil the competitiveness of smaller-market teams like Jacksonville, Cincinnati and Arizona.
“Revenue sharing helps maintain the ‘any given Sunday’ dynamic in the N.F.L.,†the players union spokesman George Atallah said. “The amount of money some owners propose to pull out of the system in 2011 could mean the difference between playoffs and blackouts for many teams.â€
Not so, says management. It seems nearly certain that no deal will be reached to avert an uncapped year and a management executive said the supplemental revenue sharing applied only to capped seasons. Management claims that the special rules set out to govern an uncapped season should maintain competitive balance even without the supplemental revenue sharing.
Among those rules: there will be no salary minimum; players become unrestricted free agents after six years, not four; each team gets an additional transition tag; and the final eight playoff teams can sign free agents only to replace the ones they lose. Still, the move is sure to cost some players money. Without a salary floor, typically low-spending and low-revenue teams will spend little.
“We are simply going forward on the terms the union approved in March of 2006,†the league spokesman Greg Aiello said.
Aiello continued: “The union is just trying to make noise to get some attention. The C.B.A. has special rules to protect competitive balance in the uncapped year. There will still be billions in equally shared revenue in 2010.â€
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/sports/football/07labor.html
looking at the renderings that were posted . . . a playboy club in the stadium? mixing playmates and nfl players sounds like trouble waiting to happen!
Those stadium renderings are hard to believe. 25 miles east of downtown? I am not as convinced that the retailers would jump all over it. Either way, it looks like the ultimate exploitation of the American consumer culture.
I was about to post this link before it was posted in another thread, but i'm honestly weary of anymore gossip until we have solid proof of anything drastic happening.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Los-Angeles-announces-intentions-to-poach-the-Ja;_ylt=AvlS2fnMT3vM.2mArdJpW_xDubYF?urn=nfl,212070
my main concern is the following quote from the article about LA's intentions to poach our team:
QuoteI wouldn't worry too much about it just yet, Bills and Jags fans. Of course, it probably wouldn't hurt to start, you know, filling your stadium, either.
We have to rally around buying season tickets or at least half packs. My biggest mistake this past year was not buying season tickets when I had the money. By the time the regular season came around, I found myself in a money pinch when it came time to pay for the individual home games.
It'd be nice to see Touchdown Jacksonville or another group focus on selling season tickets for the 2010 season. I know I feel a lot less stressed out about going to the games (money-wise) when the tickets are prepaid, like they had been in the past.
We have a little over 8 months to make this happen. Hopefully we can win back some of the 17,000+ season ticket holders (including myself) that didn't renew for the 2009 season.
Well that 4 game bail out isn't going to help. I signed up for the elayaway for season tickets. With the monthly installments its a little easier than paying it all at once.
Some people won't sign up for a complete season though, so it's better to meet them halfway and persuade them to buy a half pack than not have them go to the games at all.
Personally, I'd rather have tickets to all games and sell/give tickets away to the ones I can't attend.
QuoteWe have a little over 8 months to make this happen. Hopefully we can win back some of the 17,000+ season ticket holders (including myself) that didn't renew for the 2009 season.
Agreed, and all the people who want to build a new rail system, it won't be worth dirt without the Jaguars, get your priorities in line.
WOW this topic took off...this will take a while to caught up
Goodell won't guarantee NFL L.A. returnQuoteCommissioner Roger Goodell still cannot guarantee that the NFL will return to Los Angeles.
At his annual Super Bowl week news conference Friday, Goodell said the league continues to work towards bringing a team back to Los Angeles, which has been without an NFL team since the Rams and Raiders left in 1995, but there are still several hurdles standing in the way.
"I don't think we can guarantee that a team will be there," Goodell said. "We are all working very hard to get a team back in the Los Angeles market because we know there are millions of fans there that would love to see NFL football as part of their community. I think progress is being made. The good news is clearance has been given to build a stadium."
The $800 million, 75,000-seat stadium to be built in the City of Industry, was unanimously approved by the City of Industry Council last year. It will be built and developed by Ed Roski's Majestic Real Estate Co. Roski plans to buy a team or acquire a major share in one before beginning construction and move it to its new home near the 60 and 57 Freeway interchange. Majestic Vice President John Semcken, who is in Miami with Roski, has said that it's only a matter of time before a team moves into the stadium and they've already begun the process of contacting teams. Semcken has stated he has "no doubt" an NFL team would be in Los Angeles by 2012.
Goodell, however, didn't sound as optimistic about the that time frame considering the economic climate and the ongoing labor talks between the league and players' union, which could cause a lockout in 2011 after the current labor pact expires.
"The key issue is the challenges of financing a facility in this environment with the labor agreement that we have," Goodell said. "The cost of building that stadium is almost entirely on the ownership and that is a big burden to pay in this type of environment."
The team that continues to come up in relocation discussions is the Jacksonville Jaguars, who had about 25,000 empty seats for most home games this season. It's a number that doesn't look to improve with about 17,000 Jacksonville fans opting not to renew their season tickets. Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver has told Goodell he can't have a franchise in the city if attendance continues drop as it has in recent years.
"We know what's going on in [Jacksonville] and what our fans and partners are facing with the economic challenges," Goodell said. "I've spent an awful lot of time with Wayne about what's happening with Jacksonville and how that's affecting the attendance and I think Wayne said it very well, despite the economy and despite other factors you can't continue to have an NFL franchise with 40,000 people in the stadium. We've got to try to continue to improve that. Wayne has been very aggressive in working with the business community and we will continue to support him in any way."
Another possibility may be the San Diego Chargers, who continue to push for a new home while playing in the antiquated Qualcomm Stadium, which was built in 1967 and is the NFL's fourth-oldest stadium. San Diego, which was once a regular destination for the Super Bowl, hasn't held one in seven years and won't until they get a new stadium. The problem is the city is saddled with $179 million in debt and building a football stadium isn't high on the list of priorities for tax payers.
"I know the Chargers are working very hard to get something done in the San Diego community. They have worked for eight years now to address their stadium issue and baseball has been addressed in the meantime," Goodell said. "That stadium does need to be fixed for the NFL, which means a new stadium. They have done a lot of work over the years and unfortunately it's hasn't produced a solution and that's disappointing everybody. It is a priority for the Chargers and the NFL."
Goodell also addressed the Rams' possible ownership change during his news conference saying the NFL is committed to staying in St. Louis and also said that the Bills, who have been targeted by the Majestic Group, would have to upgrade their stadium as well in the near future.
While he couldn't guarantee the NFL would return to Los Angeles, Goodell said the prospect of investing in a new football stadium in the second biggest market would be one of the aspects he would talk to the player's association about during their discussions as a way to increase revenue for both them and the league.
"Investing in a new stadium in Los Angeles will generate more revenue that the players will share in," Goodell said. "That's the kind of investment if we work together with the players association and the clubs where we can develop a relationship and invest in those kinds of facilities that will generate new revenue and allow the game to grow and allow us to get back and engage millions of fans in Southern California and that will be good for us and that will be good for the players."
*****
Arash Markazi is a reporter and columnist for ESPNLosAngeles.com*****
"It's a number that doesn't look to improve with about 17,000 Jacksonville fans opting not to renew their season tickets." - What a horrible freaking slant - That's last season's story line. There are obviously great strides being made already THIS season. That does it. I'm getting my pair.
lies lies lies. Weaver never told Godell that stuff! this reporter is lying! Man this is getting funny. The media is blood thristy. Those Weaver quotes are not true.
How can these journalist guys be so irresponsible? Aint it agaisnt the law to print false information as fact? The jags are not leaving Jacksonville, but these cookes keep pushng for it lol. I have never seen such effort to ruin a growing city! I can remember when Saints fans wore bags on there head in an empty dome. All you heard was crickets from the media, i remember when the oilers would have very empty seats....team left on their own, media was crickets again and happy the Texans filed the void. The media was upset when the Browns n Colts left their original cities, yet it worked out perfectly for all 3 markets. The media does NOT want an NFL team in Jacksonville. The local media needs to fight back.
It was the local media that brought it up this time....
from the profootball talk live blog...
"The next question, from Gene Frenette of the Florida Times-Union, focuses on the struggles of the Jaguars to fill their stadium."
Hopefully someone emailed that arrogant ass and told him to get his facts straight.
The Florida Times Union is about to go belly up. They only have about four staff writers, who aren't very good, and the rest are feebie articles from the community. I don't put any faith in what they print.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on February 06, 2010, 02:18:44 PM
The Florida Times Union is about to go belly up. They only have about four staff writers, who aren't very good, and the rest are feebie articles from the community. I don't put any faith in what they print.
talk about incorrect information...while the T-U's parent company has declared bankruptcy, the paper itself is doing ok...and there are "just a few" more than 4 writers on staff.
even with your corrections, it is still a poor read.
Dan Hicken made a great point last night on Sports Final.
Detroit has finished near the bottom of the NFL for attendance for like the last 5 years. The Jaguars are normally in the later teens in attendance numbers (this years being the worst, at 30)
Last year we were 19th, 2007 = 22, 2006 = 19,
Why isnt anyone talking about Detroit being moved?
because Detroit is one of the "legacy" franchises of the NFL...and because Dan Hicken is an idiot!
Middle of the pack in attendance?
And being perpetually lambasted as not supporting the franchise?
Not only that, but our support of NFL in general is very high. Last night they pulled a 50 share. Thats higher than the national average.
From what I understand, one reason attendance in Jax is extra-important compared to other cities is because (1) we haven't sold out all the club seats and suites that generate mega revenues and (2) being a smaller market, the Jags get a lot less in ad and promo monies for the team, facilities, and local media shows, royalties on souvenir sales, proceeds from concessions, parking, etc., naming rights for the stadium, and so on.
Other than network TV revenue and certain ticket receipts, I believe each team is on its own to generate additional revenue. As such, teams like Dallas have more money to pursue players, etc. making it hard for a team like the Jags to keep up. Thus, attendance and blackouts become even more important for our survival versus other larger market teams.
Quote from: Dan B on February 08, 2010, 11:50:01 AM
Not only that, but our support of NFL in general is very high. Last night they pulled a 50 share. Thats higher than the national average.
true...but we're a very small market...go back to the MJ series...I think we're like the 45th largest TV market.
That's a good deal of the problem from the NFL's viewpoint...why keep sharing TV revenues with a team from such a small market.
My .02:
Cooly - Wayne did say that. It was reported in the T-U and on Jags.com a few months back. I'll see if I can find the article, but I remember him saying it specifically.
Interesting, that Goodell is desperate for a team in London, but seems to have backed off the LA thing a bit. It may just be the labor situation however. Honestly, if this thing leads to a salary rollback, it could be a blessing in disguise for Jacksonville.
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 08, 2010, 01:02:51 PM
Quote from: Dan B on February 08, 2010, 11:50:01 AM
Not only that, but our support of NFL in general is very high. Last night they pulled a 50 share. Thats higher than the national average.
true...but we're a very small market...go back to the MJ series...I think we're like the 45th largest TV market.
That's a good deal of the problem from the NFL's viewpoint...why keep sharing TV revenues with a team from such a small market.
then you're saying it is a league business decision, not a team business decision . . . interesting.
The NFL and Goodell definitely want a team in LA - tufsu is right that it's all about the t.v. market... and with 8 million tv sets in LA it makes them bigger than NYC.
My take is... if the NFL wants a team there so bad why not expand with 2 new teams in LA. The divisions wouldn't need much realigning and everyones happy.
L.A.'s television market is not bigger than New York's, by any means or figures. NYC has nearly 2 million more in it's DMA than Los Angeles.
These figures are from 2009.
http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/us_hh_by_dma.asp
Quote from: reednavy on February 08, 2010, 05:31:03 PM
L.A.'s television market is not bigger than New York's, by any means or figures.
You're right... I'm wrong. NYC has over 7 million and LA is 2nd with almost 6 million. Still the NFL wants a share of those LA tv's.
Expanding with two new teams is a tough sell when so many teams are struggling to put a good product on the field, but it would definitely expand the nfl's tv revenue and I believe, bottom line, that is what the Goodell truly cares about.
If the LA developer is ballsy enough to believe a new stadiums is all that's needed to keep fans in the stands... let him take the risk.
it could possably work in LA's case. that is a city of being seen out at events, no matter what the event is. showing up at a glitzy stadium, even though your team has no chance at winning or has a lopsided losing record, just to be seen is what will keep those seats filled.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on February 08, 2010, 05:43:53 PM
it could possably work in LA's case. that is a city of being seen out at events, no matter what the event is. showing up at a glitzy stadium, even though your team has no chance at winning or has a lopsided losing record, just to be seen is what will keep those seats filled.
hmm, didnt work in the 90s, for whatever reason. Maybe cause there were two teams...or maybe because you cant fill an entire football stadium fair-weather fans.
Whatever the case, if a franchise succeeds there it won't be because of the see-and-be-seen folks.
Quotehmm, didnt work in the 90s, for whatever reason.
The reason was crappy stadiums...
Quoteit could possably work in LA's case. that is a city of being seen out at events, no matter what the event is. showing up at a glitzy stadium, even though your team has no chance at winning or has a lopsided losing record, just to be seen is what will keep those seats filled.
Hmm - someone should tell them that the Clippers and Ducks play there too.
Here we go again; more rumors. But these rumors are founded, gaining ground, and are fact as LA is indeed out to steal another NFL Team away from its present city and they vow to have a team in LA in 2011. Read the below URL and note with alarm that the Jags are in fact one of the teams that the Ownership group is trying to bring to LA.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AjAagrTBLbgFVbFXP5LiRntDubYF?slug=tsn-lagroupeyeingnflteam&prov=tsn&type=lgns
"HU"
They may be out to steal, but they've got a long way to go still, infrastructure and actually building the damn stadium.
Until one pile of dirt is turned, I'm not convinced, and Goddell apparently isn't either.
Seriously though, Raiders, Rams, and Chargers are likely highest on the list. San Diego may not want to sell, but the NFL doesn't approve of their facilities and the City of San Diego has no money to build another one.
I thought the new purchase deal for the Rams is taking them off the possible moving list. Even though the Vikings did well they have stadium issues which is what has precipitated almost all NFL moves.
Quote from: Shwaz on February 08, 2010, 05:28:39 PM
The NFL and Goodell definitely want a team in LA - tufsu is right that it's all about the t.v. market... and with 8 million tv sets in LA it makes them bigger than NYC.
My take is... if the NFL wants a team there so bad why not expand with 2 new teams in LA. The divisions wouldn't need much realigning and everyones happy.
I normally agree with all your post....but I say no on expanding...Everyone doesn't deserve a team. It is elite company. The media says Jax does not deserve a team, but Jax has one. 32 teams is perfect. I say let the Raiders 4 games in La and 4 in Oak.
I was reading about the Colts, Browns & Titans situations.....they all seemed to have an issue with the city....Weaver & Jax seem to have a good relationship. Indy didnt steal the Colts, the Colts were shopping around and chose Indy....Jags aint shopping around, but some other teams may be. Moving teams is a big mess...it ruins cities, distorts team historys & creates many problems. The Colts won 2 superbowls & only own 1 trophy....the Orioles have the other one and may sell it to the Ravens. Baltimore mainly got the Raven because of how Browns ownership felt about the Colts leaving and how it was done. Jags would not get the love in LA they get in Jax...That market is Raider Nation! Plus the Lakers & Dodgers play there....The Jags would rank lower than the Angels and higher than the Clippers. Its not about Helping LA its about HURTING Jacksonville. The Media wants to disable Jacksonville not help LA. I wish the citizins would see this!
The Titans having an issue with the City of Metropolitan Nashville, that is not true. However, they sort of have an issue with Bud Adams the last few seasons being all crazy, particularly the "Birdie incident".
Quote from: reednavy on February 16, 2010, 12:44:47 PM
The Titans having an issue with the City of Metropolitan Nashville, that is not true. However, they sort of have an issue with Bud Adams the last few seasons being all crazy, particularly the "Birdie incident".
i meant with houston man
Quote from: Coolyfett on February 16, 2010, 12:36:42 PM
I normally agree with all your post....but I say no on expanding...Everyone doesn't deserve a team. It is elite company. The media says Jax does not deserve a team, but Jax has one. 32 teams is perfect. I say let the Raiders 4 games in La and 4 in Oak.
I wonder how many people said that when the Jags where formed
Yet another NFL stadium plan for L.A.? Meh.
From the L.A. Times:
http://mobile.latimes.com/inf/infomo?view=SportItem&feed:a=latimes_1min&feed:c=sportsnews&feed:i=53330275
ESPN's Poll of the day - "How important is Los Angeles to the NFL"........17% say Very Important; Collective 83% responding with Somewhat Important or Not Important at All (55%)
BTW, 37% of Californians responded with Very Important.....
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=nfl&pollId=90823
Suck it L.A.
Cali already has three teams, only Florida has that many. They dont need to steal a team from some other state, but just relocate a team in Cali. Either the Raiders or the Chargers. The most practical seems the Raiders, since there is already a team pretty much representing that area, aka the 49ers. And San Diego is large enough to have a team, and its supports it. So the Raiders are the team to move, which they have done before. The Raider were originally from LA and they can go back to LA. Nuff Said.
Raiders suck anyways.
^^^Actually Mattius it's the opposite; The Chargers were originally from L.A., and the Raiders were originally from Oakland; The Raiders have moved from OAK, to LA, then back to OAK.
The Raiders are the obvious team. I don't think the NFL wants to abandon a market like St. Louis, Minneapolis, Jacksonville or Buffalo to put a fourth team in California. The Raiders can move and 49ers can have that market to themselves.
Love how in the Times-Union's quick links section at the top, there's a quick link for "Tim Tebow" but not for the Jags.
I don't think the NFL is ready to abandon us just yet. Jacksonville is already a ratings monster (#1 city watching the NFL draft, Top Five watching the superbowl) with the potential of growing even more...
what is your point? It isn't that hard to navigate the site.
Loves me some Tebow
we know, we know. :P
I love his future teammates, Stokley, Decker, and Quinn.
Excellent read - nice way to cap off the weekend -If only the writer could have correctly spelled FOOTBALL in the headline.......
When it comes to buying a fooball team, it looks like slim pickins for Majestic Realty's Ed Roski, experts say
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_15334692
Hehe - here's another blog posted in the LA Weekly (I think I'll pick up a decal):
(http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/assets_c/2010/06/no%20way%20la-thumb-160x148.jpg)
When It Comes To NFL's Jaguars Moving To Los Angeles, Jacksonville Says 'No Way L.A.'
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/sports/nfl-stadium-jaguars/
It will happen. If not L.A., it will be some other city. Sorry. Maybe if we generate more diplomas and jobs we could keep the Jags. Our NFL team has been a symbol of a city living beyond its means.
Not on Mr. Weavers watch.
Quote from: gridsketch on June 28, 2010, 10:04:43 PM
It will happen. If not L.A., it will be some other city. Sorry. Maybe if we generate more diplomas and jobs we could keep the Jags. Our NFL team has been a symbol of a city living beyond its means.
ok, wtf do diplomas and jobs have to do with the Jags?
Also, if you're going to talk about "living beyond their means", just look at all the foreclosed properties.
Quote from: reednavy on June 28, 2010, 10:14:02 PM
Quote from: gridsketch on June 28, 2010, 10:04:43 PM
It will happen. If not L.A., it will be some other city. Sorry. Maybe if we generate more diplomas and jobs we could keep the Jags. Our NFL team has been a symbol of a city living beyond its means.
ok, wtf do diplomas and jobs have to do with the Jags?
Also, if you're going to talk about "living beyond their means", just look at all the foreclosed properties.
I'm saying people's biggest complaint is they can't afford to go to the Jaguars games (food, parking, tickets). Unemployment, underemployment, low opportunity. People who don't have educations and work for minimum wage don't buy Jags tickets. We should have spent the 1990s and 2000s developing technology and medical industries through education and legislation. Then we can have football. Whatever happened to eating all your vegetables before dessert?
Quote from: gridsketch on June 28, 2010, 10:04:43 PM
It will happen. If not L.A., it will be some other city. Sorry.
That's all good if that's your opinion, but it really looks dumb to act like this is some kinda sure shot deal that's etched in stone.
I don't buy the "no diplomas, and jobs" argument either. Lots of people have disposable income; Ever been by franchise restaurants in this city lately near lunch time? They're usually packed. This city has more money than you think.
If anything should be the blame IMO is the stupid "college mentality" in this city; The sooner we grow up with the 'big boys", the more stable the Jags franchise will be, not unless you wanna see this city's infrastructure, and identity go to hell.
People who are struggling or impoverished weren't going to buy tickets anyway, and historically have not. While good points were raised about education and employment options, let's stop the "JAX is too poor" argument right now.
The economy is just another convenient excuse for people of means who really just want to sit at home in the AC and watch for free. Want more? Here's a (partial) list, borrowed from the Jags MB (http://forum.jaguars.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=685889&view=findpost&p=1274512):
Quote
* The team didn't draft Tebow
* The team refuses to guarantee they'll win every game
* The team didn't fire Del Rio
* The team didn't cut Garrard
* The team didn't fire Coughlin fast enough
* The team didn't hire Spurrier
* The team cut Brunell after treating him so badly
* The team drafted Byron Leftwich to replace Brunell
* The water in the fountains isn't chilled.
* Concession prices are too high
* Parking is too expensive
* It's too hot
* It's too cold
* It's too rainy
* It's too sunny
* The seats are too far away from the field
* The stadium sound system isn't very good
* The jumbotron isn't clear enough
* The stadium music isn't part of my playlist
* Jaxson DeVille didn't give me a free box of hamburgers
* I don't like Jaxson DeVille
* I don't like the Roar
* The Roar ignore me when I show off my body paint.
* I don't like body painters
* People get too drunk and obnoxious
* They cut off beer sales at the end of the third quarter for day games
* They cut off beer sales at halftime for night games
* They sell beer and I hate alcohol.
* Smokers leave me inhaling second-hand smoke on the ramps.
* They won't let me smoke in my seat.
* I hate the pat downs.
* They don't have enough security.
* I don't like the artwork on the tarps.
* I miss the frisbee dogs.
* The shuttle buses don't drop me off at my seat
* The escalators don't drop me off at my seat
* The elevators don't drop me off at my seat
* Wayne Weaver doesn't personally greet me when I come to games.
* The play calling is too predictable
* They run the ball too much
* They throw the ball too much
* I like to see high scoring offense and don't care about defense
* I like to see slobber knocking defenses and don't care about offense
* I don't appreciate having to be courteous to others around me when I attend games
* I don't appreciate people standing in front of me and getting loud at games
* I don't like the food they serve in the stadium
* I don't like Pepsi
* I don't like Budweiser
* I don't like the announcer
* I don't like the radio broadcast
* I hate Cole Pepper's sideline reports
* The halftime show isn't entertaining
* The pregame festivities aren't entertaining
* The post game festivities don't include personalized fireworks.
* The shuttle doesn't pick me up at my seat after the game
* The escalator doesn't take me from my seat to the house
* The people in the club seats don't stay in their seats
* The people in the club seats don't cheer loudly enough
* They don't have a big enough family fun zone
* They have too much of a family friendly focus in the stadium
* They don't defend our house as vehemently as I think they should
* The seats are too small
* I don't like teal
* My cup holders don't keep my drink chilled in the summer
* My cup holders don't keep my drink heated in the winter
* they don't use the all black uniforms any more.
* I don't like the glitter helmets
* I don't like the glitter color
* I don't like the logo
* I don't like the Santa hat on the logo
* I miss the Santa hat on the logo
* I don't like the fact that they don't paint the endzones the way I think they should.
* They don't let me call any of the plays
* The players never throw me a glove or other assorted gear
* They're all a bunch of gangster thugs
* They're all a bunch of choir boys
* I hate doing the wave
* I think we should be doing the wave when the offense is on the field
* I think we should be doing the wave the entire game.
* I hate the move those chains chant
* I don't like that our team doesn't have a nickname for the defense.
* I miss the fat cats.
* I didn't like the fat cats.
* I don't like the violence when Jaxson beats up opposing team mascots.
* I wish Jaxson would be more violent with opposing team's mascots.
* Tickets are too expensive.
* My seat doesn't have cushions attached.
* The stadium doesn't have a dome.
* The stadium isn't air conditioned
* The endzone doesn't have a pirate ship or other gimmick
* I never get picked for the pass, punt, and kick competition.
* I never get picked for the Winn Dixie grocery toss.
* I don't shop at Winn Dixie.
* I never get a shot at the Shoe Carnival contests.
* I hate Shoe Carnival.
* I don't ever see my text messages on the jumbotron
* There's a pixel out constantly on the jumbotron that isn't out on my home television.
* The flyovers are too noisy.
* The flyovers aren't flyovers, but fly bys.
* The fly bys are actually fly overs.
* The flyovers are too low.
* The flyovers are too high.
* Peter King didn't pick us to win the Super Bowl.
* Woody Paige called us the Jagwads.
* Vito Stellino doesn't put on a roar outfit and cheer for the team on Sundays.
* Vic Ketchman talks about the Steelers too much.
* Vic Ketchman is mean and won't answer my Ask Vic questions.
* Jack Del Rio is arrogant.
* Jack Del Rio throws players under the bus.
* Jack Del Rio is too honest.
* Jack Del Rio uses coach speak too much.
* I don't like the assistant to the assistant secondary coach.
* The players drive fancy cars
* The coach didn't sign my autograph at a Suns game.
* The team doesn't do enough in the community.
* The team didn't create a marketing campaign specifically for me.
* I haven't had a single player come to my door to beg me to buy tickets.
* They aren't making the scrimmage free for everyone to attend.
We need to stop falling into the Jacksonville trap of excusing thought and behavior that is harmful to our city because we "don't deserve" or "weren't ready" for something, or we "should have done (X) before we (Y)."
This low self-opinion is killing the city on a much larger and more important scale than that of an NFL team, and it negatively affects everything here. We need to support things of value in this
town city (we are a CITY!) instead of sighing, shrugging, and saying, "What do you expect? This is Jacksonville," as they all dry up and blow away one after another.
That type of repeated resigning ourselves to fate is just as destructive as any wrecking ball or dynamite.
We need to take ownership. This team (and this city) is OURS. We're the dog who caught the car. Now what do we do?
Quote from: gridsketch on June 28, 2010, 10:04:43 PM
It will happen. If not L.A., it will be some other city. Sorry. Maybe if we generate more diplomas and jobs we could keep the Jags. Our NFL team has been a symbol of a city living beyond its means.
If not L.A., then what other city?
Quote from: copperfiend on June 29, 2010, 08:21:03 AM
If not L.A., then what other city?
Las Vegas is in the hunt, but don't expect them to get anything I'm sure.
The NFL will never move to Las Vegas.
Where would the NFL put another team besides L.A......Memphis, Salt Lake City, Albuquerque?
The only options outside of LA would be outside of the country. I know Toronto has been mentioned but I doubt any team other than Buffalo makes that move. But Toronto would probably have to build a new stadium considering the SkyDome is 20 years old.
London is a popular city to discuss but that would be a logistical nightmare for the 10 teams that have to travel there. And what about a London-Seattle matchup. How long would that flight be?
Alabama could be a good spot for an NFL team to land.
Quote from: kells904 on June 29, 2010, 10:39:07 AM
Alabama could be a good spot for an NFL team to land.
Are you being serious?
Toronto only has about 50,000 seating capacity for football in the Skydome, and loyalty to the CFL probably would prevent the NFL from expanding to Canada. Anyway, Toronto is an integral part of the Bills' strategy to build their regional fan base and avoid blackouts by reducing the ticket-buying burden on western NYers.
I very much doubt the NFL wants anything to do with Memphis, which is slow-growth, already has a pro team that is about all it can support, and has bad blood with the league over the '76 and '93 expansions and the Oilers fiasco.
Salt Lake, Vegas, and Albuquerque do not have NFL stadiums by any stretch of the imagination. I don't think Albuquerque has the capacity to support a pro team, at least not yet.
Kells' mention of Alabama is not off the wall at all. Birmingham has a large stadium (Legion Field), a history of football passion (including strong USFL attendance), and a metro population not much smaller than Jacksonville's. Back in the 80s it was mentioned many times as a relocation or expansion candidate. The difference now is, Legion Field would need a major renovation or replacement to meet NFL standards.
The only other potential player for a team is San Antonio, which has an NFL-size stadium. I don't think San Antonio on its own can support a second pro team besides the Spurs, but if you factor in Austin, 75 miles north, the capacity to support an NFL team is there. But the Alamo Dome, despite being only 20 years old or so, is antiquated compared to modern NFL stadiums (including the not much younger but much more modern JMS). And you can't underestimate the powerful grip the Cowboys have on almost all of Texas. Embracing a local NFL team would not be a natural event. We complain about Duval natives who have clung to the Dolphins, but that's nothing compared to the Cowboys' hold over Texas.
The NFL definitely is not putting a team in a market smaller than Jacksonville.
The only other market I can think of is Mexico City but I am not sure you convince many free agents to live in Mexico right now.
San Antonio?
Quote from: copperfiend on June 29, 2010, 11:13:25 AM
The NFL definitely is not putting a team in a market smaller than Jacksonville.
The only other market I can think of is Mexico City but I am not sure you convince many free agents to live in Mexico right now.
I don't think so either, but kells didn't pull the Alabama idea out of thin air. Mexico City would make sense as a possibility (more so than London, I would think). The NFL has been trying to make inroads into Mexico for over a decade.
Quote from: copperfiend on June 29, 2010, 08:30:58 AM
The NFL will never move to Las Vegas.
For a fact? Vegas is in the hunt for pro sports teams.
In all honesty, I can't rule out OKC, they've got a lot going on for them right now and are clearly moving in the right direction. They do fall under the Cowboys huge umbrella though.
Hell, toss Portland, OR out there, but I doubt they'd give it much support.
San Antonio really isn't that much of a reach, they're also fairly close to Austin and they've been mulling the idea for a while now about pro sprts in the capital city. The stick in the mud for Austin is the Univ. of Texas, which is basically their pro team.
Quote from: reednavy on June 29, 2010, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on June 29, 2010, 08:30:58 AM
The NFL will never move to Las Vegas.
For a fact? Vegas is in the hunt for pro sports teams.
In all honesty, I can't rule out OKC, they've got a lot going on for them right now and are clearly moving in the right direction. They do fall under the Cowboys huge umbrella though.
Hell, toss Portland, OR out there, but I doubt they'd give it much support.
San Antonio really isn't that much of a reach, they're also fairly close to Austin and they've been mulling the idea for a while now about pro sprts in the capital city. The stick in the mud for Austin is the Univ. of Texas, which is basically their pro team.
That's for sure. UT dominates Austin's sports scene.
Portland has pro basketball and has actively pursued MLS and (occasionally) MLB. I've never heard it talked about as a serious NFL candidate for any reason other than market size. It seems to be Seahawks country to me, to whatever extent it pays attention to pro football. Not that 1980s attendance stats for a pseudo-pro league should be definitive, but Portland was at the bottom of the attendance barrel with its USFL team. 7,000 or so per game vs. 45,000+ in Jacksonville and at least quintuple digits everywhere else except Los Angeles.
OKC would need a stadium first. The Sooners' stadium is pro-sized for sure, but 1) too big for the market for the NFL and 2) possibly not up to NFL standards. And as many positive strides as the area has made, it already has one pro team and is smaller than Jacksonville. Tulsa might help as a secondary market but it's around 100 miles away (though I do know of Tulsans who attend Thunder games, and Tulsa did not do a bad job of supporting the short-lived USFL Outlaws despite some pretty dicey circumstances). And OKC is very much Cowboys country, yes.
Vegas would need a stadium too. Sam Boyd is nowhere close to NFL size or standards. I think the NBA would make more sense for Vegas.
Quote from: reednavy on June 29, 2010, 11:34:03 AM
For a fact? Vegas is in the hunt for pro sports teams.
This is from a couple of years ago but speaks of the NFL's attitude towards Vegas.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Feb-03-Sat-2007/sports/12371492.html
Even this past Super Bowl, the NFL was upset because a Kia commercial that aired during the game was partially filmed in a casino.
Thanks for having my back, Wacca, now I don't have to explain why I mentioned Alabama...since we're in the same area, we should hit Buffalo Wild Wings at least once this season so I'm not the only fool in there wearing a teal jersey. :)
Somewhere like Birmingham does make sense, but I don't see it happening; the NFL wants the TV ratings that L.A. would provide. And the international thing might just be a pipe dream for now. Brits do know about the NFL (they also know about our Tebow man-crush), but their football is king. And putting a team in Mexico is like trying to get 53 men killed. We all saw "Man on Fire", who the hell wants to deal with that mess? It's best that the NFL leave well enough alone at this point with the billions it's already making. Go international after you've already maxed your North American earnings, not before.
Quote from: kells904 on June 29, 2010, 11:59:07 AM
Thanks for having my back, Wacca, now I don't have to explain why I mentioned Alabama...since we're in the same area, we should hit Buffalo Wild Wings at least once this season so I'm not the only fool in there wearing a teal jersey. :)
Where do you go to BWW? The closest one to me is Newport News, but I'm usually at Kelsey's in Grafton. I'm the one in the teal wig and cat head hat to go with the teal jersey...
Quote from: copperfiend on June 29, 2010, 11:49:45 AM
This is from a couple of years ago but speaks of the NFL's attitude towards Vegas.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Feb-03-Sat-2007/sports/12371492.html
Even this past Super Bowl, the NFL was upset because a Kia commercial that aired during the game was partially filmed in a casino.
Oh yeah, duh, I forgot the NFL isn't a fan of the Vegas casino's and their betting on NFL games and such.
I'm trying to think of any other city that could potentially support a NFL franchise.
The San Antonio-Austin area would be about the only fit in the country to me. They're both big sports towns, regardless if it is pro in SA or the Longhorns in Austin and the their distance apart is easily traveled in about a hour up or down I-35. Besides SA and Austin, the only other viable market in any sense would be OKC-Tulsa, which can easily be traveled between in under 2 hours.
Louisville falls between the Benglas, Colts, and Titans.
Omaha falls under the Chiefs' umbrella.
Sacramento is a no go period.
Orlando will not get a NFL franchise or anything else for that matter.
Raleigh-Durham falls under the Panthers' market.
Columbus is split between Bengals and Browns, and their main NFL like team is the Buckeyes.
Milwaukee is too close to Chicago and Wisconsin has the Packers, not to mention the Milwaukee area is relatively stagnant.
Salt Lake City?
Quote from: BridgeTroll on June 29, 2010, 02:04:50 PM
Salt Lake City?
They don't bring a whole lot to the table either, they're Broncos country.
I think Reed is right that the only real possibility besides L.A. is San Antonio right now. Either market size, stadium size/quality, or both automatically disqualify everyone else.
The NFL probably does have their eyes on the SA-Austin area, which are both growing towards each other, and both are continuing to grow very well, with Austin's market leading the pack. The San Antonio tv market is #37 and Austin is #48, with Austin rapidly moving up the DMA chart.
While not likely in the near term, the NFL would be stupid to not be looking at these two metro areas as combined the hold around 3.8 million combined, according to 2009 estimates. Both have added over 200,000 each since 2006 estimates.
A correction to earlier, Austin and San Antonio are only about 1.5 hours apart, with San Marcos in Hays County being the rough halfway point.
Vegas is better off without a pro sports team because the law does not permit gambling on games and sporting events within Las Vegas. Therefore, casinos do better with teams in other cities.
Quote from: reednavy on June 29, 2010, 02:50:52 PM
The NFL probably does have their eyes on the SA-Austin area, which are both growing towards each other, and both are continuing to grow very well, with Austin's market leading the pack. The San Antonio tv market is #37 and Austin is #48, with Austin rapidly moving up the DMA chart.
While not likely in the near term, the NFL would be stupid to not be looking at these two metro areas as combined the hold around 3.8 million combined, according to 2009 estimates. Both have added over 200,000 each since 2006 estimates.
A correction to earlier, Austin and San Antonio are only about 1.5 hours apart, with San Marcos in Hays County being the rough halfway point.
Only thing is, I wonder whether they would ever be able to make a stadium happen. I lived in Austin for 3 years and while Austinites didn't seem to have a problem with making the 1.5 hr drive to support the Spurs, I am not sure if they would have the same enthusiasm for driving that distance to support a football team that was not "theirs." And I don't think San Antonio on its own can support an NFL team long-term on top of the Spurs--as I recall, the NFL concluded as much when San Antonio was dropped from the expansion derby in 1993, and I don't think San Antonio's subsequent growth exceeded projections at that time (though Austin's likely did).
The Alamo Dome has 70,000 seats and would be a tall order to sell out drawing from San Antonio alone, with its not being a particularly wealthy market, having one well-supported major league team already, and having many residents with long-standing loyalties to the Cowboys. Also, even though the Alamo Dome was built in 1990 or so, my understanding is that it's more utilitarian than NFL-caliber, so I'd assume it would need significant upgrades.
So that takes us back to building the stadium halfway between, around San Marcos, which would make a lot of sense. But then I could foresee an identity issue--whose team is it? Do you call it San Antonio-Austin? Does Austin, which probably has major league aspirations to go with its rapid growth, not get behind a team that it sees as really belonging to San Antonio?
Not that he's necessarily the most reliable source, but I can remember Ricky Williams' speculating on Austin's desire for a pro franchise of its own 8-9 years ago and proposing that the Saints (prior to their post-Katrina renaissance) relocate there.
Austin honestly does have the upper hand, a still rapidly growing city with incredible amounts of wealth, heavily driven by high-tech industries and UT. Austin is a rapidly growing tv market and there are little signs of Austin-Round Rock Metro slowing anytime soon.
Like I said, definetly not a near-term thing, but in the next decade or so, Austin could very well pop up on the NFL's radar better. It would make more sense in Austin as well, because they're a heavy sports city and can likely make it work.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on June 29, 2010, 01:09:43 PM
Where do you go to BWW? The closest one to me is Newport News, but I'm usually at Kelsey's in Grafton. I'm the one in the teal wig and cat head hat to go with the teal jersey...
I rotate between the BWW, Hooters, and AJ Gators scattered throughout the Norfolk/Va Beach area. Newport News isn't much of a stretch, though....but I don't know WTH Grafton is.
Quote from: kells904 on June 29, 2010, 05:48:02 PM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on June 29, 2010, 01:09:43 PM
Where do you go to BWW? The closest one to me is Newport News, but I'm usually at Kelsey's in Grafton. I'm the one in the teal wig and cat head hat to go with the teal jersey...
I rotate between the BWW, Hooters, and AJ Gators scattered throughout the Norfolk/Va Beach area. Newport News isn't much of a stretch, though....but I don't know WTH Grafton is.
I wouldn't have a problem going to the southside either. Grafton is on 17 halfway between Newport News and the colonial area of Yorktown. No one on the Peninsula knows where it is either.
P.S. I'm a hero member now...woo-hoo!
I don't think Orlando could be ruled out entirely. It's like a "clean" version of Las Vegas. Yes, its close to Tampa and Miami, but it would likely draw Orlando, Daytona, the Space Coast, and, yes, nostalgic Jax fans. The NFL has/had "close" teams elsewhere, including NYJ/NYG, San Fran/Oak, Wash/Bal/Phil, Indianapolis/Cincy, LAR/LAR/San Diego.
More importantly, every time Orlando played another NFL team, that visiting team's fans would make a weekend pilgrimage to Orlando to see the game and hit the theme parks. That might give them higher attendance than their local population alone would suggest. Add, that everyone in Orlando just about is from somewhere else giving visiting teams a built in fan base.
Of course, they need a new stadium, but if they want it bad enough, it seems they could be a contender.
With half time shows produced, on a rotating basis, by the theme parks, they could put on quite a show.
Not much sense talking about the Jags leaving. The only thing we can do is buy tickets and support our team through showing team pride.
Indy and Cincy have enough distance between them.
Orlando and Tampa do not, and The NFL will not give them a look until the Orlando-Kissimmee metro area adds another 2-4 million. Orlando's problem is that they can't find the cash to even renovate the Citrus Bowl, in addition to being only 80 miles from Tampa. The whole Orlando-Daytona-Melbourns region has only about 2.5 million people. Orlando is likely to never get another pro sports team unless someone or a group come forward with the cash to do so and build a new stadium.
San Antonio-Austin is a very viable pair of markets that continue to grow and I believe can support a NFL franchise, specifically Austin.
If the Orlando market cannot support Jacksonville, why would the NFL move there? It does not make sense.
Quote from: reednavy on June 29, 2010, 10:13:58 PM
San Antonio-Austin is a very viable pair of markets that continue to grow and I believe can support a NFL franchise, specifically Austin.
IMO those markets are too overwhelmed with Cowboy/Longhorn faithful. If you think that Jax is crazy about the Gators/Seminoles/Bulldogs, try Austin with it's beloved Longhorns; I know to never say never, but I don't see a NFL team going to any of those cities.
Quote from: reednavy on June 29, 2010, 10:13:58 PM
The whole Orlando-Daytona-Melbourns region has only about 2.5 million people.
Isn't this double Jax? We have a team with half the population. Why would this doubled amount then be inadequate?Quote from: mtraininjax on June 29, 2010, 10:17:08 PM
If the Orlando market cannot support Jacksonville, why would the NFL move there? It does not make sense.
I didn't know Orlando had a responsibility to support Jax. And, if it could do better, how much of that failure is due to the Jags not marketing well to the Orlando market?
Quote from: stjr on June 29, 2010, 11:35:29 PM
Isn't this double Jax? We have a team with half the population. Why would this doubled amount then be inadequate?
It may be, but look how close they are to another NFL market. That may not be the biggest thing, but unless they get a new stadium, ain't gunna happen. Even then, I doubt it.
You did not know that the games are blacked out in Orlando? 2-hour drive, so how would the NFL handle televising Tampa or Orlando games? That would be a cluster since they are within 2 hours of each other.
Would not happen, too much of a mess in NFL TV issues.
Quote from: mtraininjax on June 29, 2010, 11:39:24 PM
2-hour drive, so how would the NFL handle televising Tampa or Orlando games? That would be a cluster since they are within 2 hours of each other.
The same way the Redskins and Ravens are handled. Washington and Baltimore are closer than Tampa and Orlando. Somehow. the NFL makes it work.
Without a stadium in Orlando with luxury boxes, I am not worried about Orlando.
Alabama's new NFL team.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=D72EPFksUxE
"Roll'd" Tide!
Rick Rolled!!! Yesssssss!!! BTW he has a new song out.
Quote from: stjr on June 29, 2010, 11:48:25 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on June 29, 2010, 11:39:24 PM
2-hour drive, so how would the NFL handle televising Tampa or Orlando games? That would be a cluster since they are within 2 hours of each other.
The same way the Redskins and Ravens are handled. Washington and Baltimore are closer than Tampa and Orlando. Somehow. the NFL makes it work.
Well, Baltimore-Washington is a combined metro area of 8+ million people...versus just over 3 million w/ Orlando-Jax....or 5 million with Orlando-Tampa
that said, the 'Skins werent real happy when Baltimore got a team back....and the Orioles tried to block DC from getting baseball back too.
Quote from: mtraininjax on June 29, 2010, 11:39:24 PM
You did not know that the games are blacked out in Orlando?
they aren't....the blackout rule is 75 miles....so you can actually catch Jags games in Daytona
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 30, 2010, 07:47:24 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on June 29, 2010, 11:39:24 PM
You did not know that the games are blacked out in Orlando?
they aren't....the blackout rule is 75 miles....so you can actually catch Jags games in Daytona
You are incorrect.
Last year the games were blacked out in Polk.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 30, 2010, 07:47:24 AM
they aren't....the blackout rule is 75 miles....so you can actually catch Jags games in Daytona
Orlando is a secondary market of Jacksonville, so it is generally affected by a Jacksonville blackout. Daytona is part of that media market, and since it's within 75 miles of Orlando, it's affected (which would explain why Polk County is blacked out as well)
In the NFL, any broadcaster that has a signal that hits any area within a 75-mile radius of an NFL stadium may only broadcast a game if that game is a road game, or if the game sells out 72 hours or more before the start time for the game.
Has any heard of the "No Way LA" campaign?
I have not seen a bumper sticker yet, but this site has them available:
http://nowayla.com/
Quote from: aaapolito on July 11, 2010, 08:56:43 PM
Has any heard of the "No Way LA" campaign?
I have not seen a bumper sticker yet, but this site has them available:
http://nowayla.com/
What's with the bible references? I thought the NFL was a football league, not a religion. ;D
You can't tell alot of the hick Gator fans that. They can't seem to distinguish the NFL, from college football, and religion.
why drive more than 75 miles away from your home to watch a game on tv? wouldn't it be more cost effective just to buy a ticket in the cheap seats?
Quote from: JaxNative68 on July 14, 2010, 05:36:41 PM
why drive more than 75 miles away from your home to watch a game on tv? wouldn't it be more cost effective just to buy a ticket in the cheap seats?
Technically no.
Cheap seats: 39$
Parking: 20$ (or 5-7$ park & rides)
So around 50-60 for just one person.
Or 40$ for a tank of gas that goes 350 miles...
Food would be a wash in costs.
Just saying... It isn't too expensive, but not cheap either.
But there are many reasons to not have tickets.
My in laws had season tickets since day 1. But had to stop buying them when they were paying their kids colleges off. And then he had multiple transplants, which of course set him back.
I have 400$ a month in student loans to pay off. That will always come first for me. But it won't prevent me from going to a game or two this year if I get a chance, just cannot do season tickets.
Jandar...parking can be free. I never pay for parking Downtown on game days....but sometimes do pay to ride the Water Taxi. I feel your pain on the student loan payments!
wait...you mean you can park downtown for free?
for sure tufsu1....who knew?
well, i had to figure it out on my own.....then i spread the word to my good friends! many of whom have followed me on game days and no longer pay for parking!
Be prepared for a little bit of walk.
The good news? Either you can handle it, or you need the exercise! ;D
Quote from: buckethead on July 15, 2010, 09:31:55 AM
Be prepared for a little bit of walk.
The good news? Either you can handle it, or you need the exercise! ;D
Very true. Seeing the game live is much healthier than driving 75 miles to watch it anyway. Think; walking to the stadium, walking up to your seat, standing up and sitting down for 3 hours, then repeat the walk back to the car. All the while, you're breathing fresh natural air and sitting in the sun. That should be worth the $10-20 premium right there.
it is a great workout! plus you get to see some interesting parts of the urban core via foot.
I have done it for Baseball and Football games... :)
I can say its good to see the city pulling together to sell tickets. I work ar Prudential and they are cashing in on the Teal Deals, and they will be offering $300.00 season tickets at a discount to us for $100.00!! I already sent an email letting them know what I want. I could not pass up a great deal like this. Go jags!!
Awesome! This is what is needed. Small businesses, sports bars, etc can buy a set of season tickets and give pairs away as promotions or rewards to staff...
Quote
Technically no.
Cheap seats: 39$
Parking: 20$ (or 5-7$ park & rides)
So around 50-60 for just one person.
Or 40$ for a tank of gas that goes 350 miles...
Food would be a wash in costs.
Just saying... It isn't too expensive, but not cheap either.
But there are many reasons to not have tickets.
My in laws had season tickets since day 1. But had to stop buying them when they were paying their kids colleges off. And then he had multiple transplants, which of course set him back.
I have 400$ a month in student loans to pay off. That will always come first for me. But it won't prevent me from going to a game or two this year if I get a chance, just cannot do season tickets.
I am not made of money. I paid to park once last year, and that was the Indy game that my family threw a big tailgate at.
You can park free at the courthouse Downtown, or by the unemployment office near the homeless shelter. It is about a 10 minute walk. My overweight, out of shape, and unmotivated 62 year old father who has had 3 heart attacks in his life did that 10 minute walk once with me... and if he can do it, most any non-disabled individual can do it.
You can also park free DT and either take the free boatride or free shuttle at Hooters and London Bridge respectively. A pitcher of beer and a chicken strip sandwich is $13 at Hooters pre-game and that includes your boatride ticket that drops you off/picks up at the Landing/Metro Park. That not only saves money tailgating, it saves money to park.
The River Taxi also offers service, $5 each way.
The JTA shuttle usually also gives you a coupon for a free soda, popcorn, or hot dog at the game if you park and ride at the Kings Ave Garage or the Prime Osborne/Skyway lot.($7 park and ride minus the cost of $3 hot dog works out to be a $4 bus ride with free parking)
Additionally, I received about $136 in Jags Bucks from Gate gas station last year($2 for every 10 gallon fillup) so except for a few games where I had a bit too many liquor drinks... I didnt pay a dime out of pocket for food or beer in the stadium.
Also, I have already saved $95 at various establishments around town via the Teal Deals booklet... and Ive only used 5 of the coupons.
It is VERY easy to go to a sports bar or go to the grocery store and get food/beer and watch the game on tv and spend MORE money than if I just went to the actual game.
It's going to be a great season, fly-overs, move the chain chants, fireworks, relentlessly ridiculing the opponents, tailgaiting, grilling, cornhole.... GO JAGS
Excellent points fieldafm!
I've used 5 coupons for just over $180 in savings through the Teal Deals and I have a ton more that I'm looking forward too.
The best deal so far was my meal at Orsay. My gf & I had an appetizer, cheese plate ++ 2 entrees for $25. Unbelievable.
2nd best is the golf passes for South Hampton â€" $20 per player (4) easily saves the group $120 for weekend golf.
Quote from: Shwaz on July 15, 2010, 11:00:16 AM
Excellent points fieldafm!
I've used 5 coupons for just over $180 in savings through the Teal Deals and I have a ton more that I'm looking forward too.
The best deal so far was my meal at Orsay. My gf & I had an appetizer, cheese plate ++ 2 entrees for $25. Unbelievable.
2nd best is the golf passes for South Hampton – $20 per player (4) easily saves the group $120 for weekend golf.
Haven't used my Orsays coupon, but have used my south hampton and Bistro Aixs, not to mention dicks wings and a couple of others, The coupons are a really great deal
My fave so far is the free Jags polo when you spend $50, done and done.
Quote from: downtownjag on July 15, 2010, 11:11:52 AM
My fave so far is the free Jags polo when you spend $50, done and done.
I didn't see that one... where do you have to spend $50?
Quote from: Shwaz on July 15, 2010, 11:13:11 AM
Quote from: downtownjag on July 15, 2010, 11:11:52 AM
My fave so far is the free Jags polo when you spend $50, done and done.
I didn't see that one... where do you have to spend $50?
At Football Fanatics. Free polo with a $50 purchase.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 15, 2010, 10:10:46 AM
I can say its good to see the city pulling together to sell tickets. I work ar Prudential and they are cashing in on the Teal Deals, and they will be offering $300.00 season tickets at a discount to us for $100.00!! I already sent an email letting them know what I want. I could not pass up a great deal like this. Go jags!!
That is great to hear. I remember seeing a lament last season that Prudential purchased many tickets in the early days of the Jaguars but had moved away from that.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on July 15, 2010, 11:41:16 AM
Quote from: Shwaz on July 15, 2010, 11:13:11 AM
Quote from: downtownjag on July 15, 2010, 11:11:52 AM
My fave so far is the free Jags polo when you spend $50, done and done.
I didn't see that one... where do you have to spend $50?
At Football Fanatics. Free polo with a $50 purchase.
Thanks :)
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on July 15, 2010, 11:42:51 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 15, 2010, 10:10:46 AM
I can say its good to see the city pulling together to sell tickets. I work ar Prudential and they are cashing in on the Teal Deals, and they will be offering $300.00 season tickets at a discount to us for $100.00!! I already sent an email letting them know what I want. I could not pass up a great deal like this. Go jags!!
That is great to hear. I remember seeing a lament last season that Prudential purchased many tickets in the early days of the Jaguars but had moved away from that.
Yes I have heard that from the PRU old timers as well. However, Pru is not the mega insurance monster it used to be and I think that stopped because it was no longer fesiable. (money wise). But they way they did this time, we received an email about the deal and they wanted to know who would be interested and how many tickets we wanted to purchase. And depending on how many people respond, they will go through with it and make them avaiable to us. I commend though even in though times they are trying to support the team.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 15, 2010, 12:31:38 PM
Yes I have heard that from the PRU old timers as well. However, Pru is not the mega insurance monster it used to be and I think that stopped because it was no longer fesiable. (money wise). But they way they did this time, we received an email about the deal and they wanted to know who would be interested and how many tickets we wanted to purchase. And depending on how many people respond, they will go through with it and make them avaiable to us. I commend though even in though times they are trying to support the team.
Absolutely. They sound like great corporate citizens to me.
LOVE IT!
Jaguars to L.A.? Don't Take It to the EverBank! QuoteAri Gold is on a mission. As all Entourage fans know, the super-agent portrayed so winningly by Jeremy Piven is this close to a deal that would bring an NFL franchise to Los Angeles -- and would feature real-life players Casey Wasserman and Jeffrey Katzenberg as part of the ownership group.
In the most recent episode, Gold tells a group of moneymen, including San Diego Chargers linebacker Shawne Merriman: "I want, and everyone in this town wants, an NFL team playing in a brand-new state-of-the-art facility within five years, all right?... Now is the time for L.A. to have an NFL team."
While Left Coasters follow the slow progress of not one, but two proposals for an NFL stadium in downtown L.A., football fans on the other side of the country -- specifically those in Northeast Florida -- are breathing a sigh of relief.
On Tuesday, Jacksonville Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver put an end to years of speculation and head-shaking about the lackluster corporate bidding for naming rights atop the former Alltel Stadium. After three years with no partner, the Jags have closed a five-year, $16.6 million dollar deal with the Jacksonville-based EverBank. Under the terms of the agreement, Jaguars Municipal Stadium becomes EverBank Field, a well-run local banking institution gets its name on the national map, and the Jaguars (hopefully) put a stop to the never-ending speculation that the team is looking to pull up stakes and relocate to Los Angeles (or some other, larger city which can presumably fill the stadium in a tough economic climate.)
"EverBank's sponsorship demonstrates its confidence that Jacksonville is a viable NFL market," said Weaver.
Bringing further comfort to Jaguars fans, EverBank Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Rob Clements told reporters the five-year deal is no one-off, saying, "We have the firm expectation this partnership will continue."
Sorry, Ari. Looks like the Jags aren't trading coasts after all. Perhaps you should get on the phone with Oakland or St. Louis?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melissa-ross/jaguars-to-la-dont-take-i_b_662104.html
^^^Hahaha take that Ari! I hate your idiotic show, too!
+ 10
Who started this weak ass thread???? The ownage in it is too funny!
Quote from: simms3 on July 28, 2010, 01:37:32 PM
^^^Hahaha take that Ari! I hate your idiotic show, too!
+ 10
Yeah, That show is like sex in the city for men. "Sup Bro!" Hey brahhhhh" *chest bump. fist pound*
Things are looking a lot better for the Jags than they were just a mere 10 months ago (when i started this weakass thread :D )
2009 was awful. May that year be striken from memory.
Coolyfett: What makes it a "weak ass thread?" And agreed that 2009 never happened haha!
+ 1 for David :)
ha ha ha ha ha ha!! La What?
Everbank made it a weak ass thread....so blame then not me ha ha ha ha ha!!
Coolyfett walks away in a teal & black snuggie.....
For once, maybe Jax was "ahead of the curve" on something. But, now, we are not alone!QuoteJaguars singled out for tickets woes, but another Florida team is faring worse
Source URL: http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2010-08-26/story/jaguars-singled-out-tickets-woes-another-florida-team
By Vito Stellino
The team has struggled on the field and at the ticket office and is having problems avoiding TV blackouts. The downturn in the Florida economy has taken a toll on ticket sales. The team has slashed ticket prices to some of the lowest in the league and started a series of fan promotions to engage the fans.
Sound familiar?
Surprise! This isn't about the Jaguars.
It is about a Florida team having more problems selling tickets than the Jaguars â€" the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
The Bucs had a huge waiting list after they won the Super Bowl following the 2002 season, but it has now evaporated.
When the Jaguars play at Tampa Bay on Saturday night in the third preseason game for both teams, Raymond James Stadium isn't likely to be half full. The game will be blacked out in the Tampa-St. Petersburg area and in Orlando (but not in Jacksonville).
When the Bucs hosted the Kansas City Chiefs in their preseason home opener last week, they announced they distributed only 41,386 tickets, although the turnstile count might not have reached 30,000.
Unlike the Jaguars, the Bucs haven't announced how many tickets they've sold for the regular season, although one of the team owners, Joel Glazer, said in March that the team's season-ticket base was in the 40,000 range and that the team would probably be blacking out games this year.
They might only sell out two home games this year â€" against Pittsburgh and the Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints. Steelers fans usually gobble up every available ticket for their road games and New Orleans is both a division foe and the defending champions.
The Bucs have admitted that they avoided blackouts last year by writing a check to the league for the visitors' share of the unsold non-premium tickets (34 percent of face value), but team director of communications Jonathan Grella said that's not a sustainable practice.
The Jaguars did it for the preseason opener last week, but they distributed 62,044 tickets.
The Bucs have been on a roller coaster on the field in recent years, 5-11 in 2004 to 11-5 and back to 4-12 and 9-7 for two years and then 3-13 last year.
Grella also said the economy has ravaged Tampa, which has experienced the country's largest unemployment increase over the last five years.
"It's a perfect storm of economic hard times in conjunction with the on-the-field factor," Grella said.
Grella said the Bucs have reacted by trying to make their practices more spectator-friendly with everything from appearances by cheerleaders and the team mascot to autograph sessions before and after practice.
"It's the difference between somebody over for dinner and telling them to help themselves to the refrigerator," he said.
The Jaguars and Bucs aren't the only team with ticket problems. Grella said the Bucs' opener at Miami wasn't sold out even though the Dolphins lifted the blackout.
And two playoff teams, San Diego and Cincinnati, didn't sell out their preseason openers.
The number of blackouts around the league is increasing. In 2008, nine regular-season games were blacked out, a number that jumped to 22 last year (seven were Jaguars home games).
Another problem for the Bucs, Jaguars and Dolphins (who have had trouble selling out every game over the years): Florida and warm-weather teams - especially ones with nearby beaches - often struggle to sell tickets when they're not winning.
Marc Ganis, the president of Sportscorp Ltd., a sports consulting firm, said Florida took a major hit when the economy collapsed, especially the real estate and banking sectors.
He also said there are too many options in Florida and that Southern California teams tend to have the same problem.
"One of the big reasons is that there is so much else to do," Ganis said. "You can go play golf or tennis or go to the beach or go boating. In Chicago, if you don't go to the Bears game, what are your options? Watch it on TV."
Teams such as Chicago also have a tradition that stretches back almost a century with fans who were taken to games by their fathers and grandfathers.
One thing the Bucs don't face is any speculation that they're a candidate to leave town.
Along with St. Petersburg and Sarasota, Tampa is the 14th-largest TV market in the country and has a state-of-the-art stadium.
By contrast, Jacksonville is the 47th-biggest TV market, and that has raised questions whether the market can support a team.
All this frustrates former Jaguars All-Pro Tony Boselli, who has led the Team Teal ticket selling campaign. He believes the finger is unfairly pointed at Jacksonville at the same time other teams are having ticket-selling problems.
"I don't think it's fair to put Jacksonville in its own category when other cities have the same issues," he said.
Boselli said he thinks the positive reaction to the Team Teal campaign shows that Jacksonville can support a team.
"Look at the response when we have a terrible economy and the team is young and in a rebuilding process. That's why I am so bullish on Jacksonville being an NFL market," he said.
He added, "I don't have my head in the sand and I'm not saying everything is fine. We are a small market and you can't be indifferent."
And he said Jacksonville can't relax its ticket-selling efforts even if it sells enough non premium tickets to lift all the blackouts this year.
"This isn't a one-year thing," he said. "This is a forever proposition."
Looks at big media guys.........crickets churp churp churp.........Ima wear my Jags stuff every weekend this season.
Jacksonville gets singled out because we are an easy target. As bad as our attendance was last year (and it was pitiful), we still drew more fans than two other NFL teams.
The Daily Record today:
• The Jacksonville Jaguars said Thursday they need to sell an average of 6,385 tickets a game, consisting of single tickets and group sales, to lift the blackout. Single game tickets for the 2010 regular season home games go on sale at 9 a.m. tomorrow. But don’t look for single game tickets for the Sept. 12 regular season opener against the Denver Broncos in the general bowl. Fans wanting those are told to consider the Black “Half Pack†(five-game, half-season ticket) or single game seats in the Touchdown Club. Visit www.jaguars.com.
The "average" worries me a little in regards to the games against Houston and Oakland later in the year. The games against Denver, Indy, Philly and Tennessee are selling much better and should not be blacked out. But they weigh down the average. So I would not be shocked if the two I mentioned had closer to 10k left.
Quote from: 02roadking on August 27, 2010, 10:26:16 AM
The Daily Record today:
• The Jacksonville Jaguars said Thursday they need to sell an average of 6,385 tickets a game, consisting of single tickets and group sales, to lift the blackout. Single game tickets for the 2010 regular season home games go on sale at 9 a.m. tomorrow. But don’t look for single game tickets for the Sept. 12 regular season opener against the Denver Broncos in the general bowl. Fans wanting those are told to consider the Black “Half Pack†(five-game, half-season ticket) or single game seats in the Touchdown Club. Visit www.jaguars.com.
Im confused with all these numbers. Wayne weaver stated that we have like 2000 left to avoid blackouts, but, as mentioned, a few games are not looking to good. Im wondering where this 6,385 number is coming from.
FYI- Just a little something for giggles. Tampa is having a temper tandrum because their games are being blacked out. For thier home opener they drew a crowd of a little over 30,000. Which is sad. We had a crowd of 43,000 in mist of a storm. Im curious to see if the national media is going to jump all over tampa like they did us. Tampa local media is, but I wonder if the national media will.
The 6k number includes group sales. WW and the Jags set their group sales goal at 8k a game. The figure he gave was strictly single game tickets.
The jaguars had a goal of 8000 group tickets (to businesses, etc).
They took that goal of 8000 away from the number of tickets needed.
They have sold around 4000 group sales, give or take.
There are under 3K season tickets left, but these will go to half pack sets and single game tickets.
The Jaguars have to pay Everbank 100K a game that is blacked out.
http://forum.jaguars.com/index.php?showtopic=687325&hl=everbank
So it makes sense to buy the tickets at 1/3 cost to show the game once there are a certain amount left.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 27, 2010, 11:45:38 AM
FYI- Just a little something for giggles. Tampa is having a temper tandrum because their games are being blacked out. For thier home opener they drew a crowd of a little over 30,000. Which is sad. We had a crowd of 43,000 in mist of a storm. Im curious to see if the national media is going to jump all over tampa like they did us. Tampa local media is, but I wonder if the national media will.
I highly, highly doubt it. I've been out of the loop since I've been overseas, but is that Brett Favre crap still going on? If it is, that will get all the airtime. That and ESPN's "Tebow Watch". I've lost all respect for them. This is only the second story I've ever read that identified teams other than ours that had ticket sales issues. I also had a two-second conversation the other day with a Californian about the Jags. "Oh, they don't even have any fans," he said. Next subject.
Quote from: kells904 on August 27, 2010, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 27, 2010, 11:45:38 AM
FYI- Just a little something for giggles. Tampa is having a temper tandrum because their games are being blacked out. For thier home opener they drew a crowd of a little over 30,000. Which is sad. We had a crowd of 43,000 in mist of a storm. Im curious to see if the national media is going to jump all over tampa like they did us. Tampa local media is, but I wonder if the national media will.
I highly, highly doubt it. I've been out of the loop since I've been overseas, but is that Brett Favre crap still going on? If it is, that will get all the airtime. That and ESPN's "Tebow Watch". I've lost all respect for them. This is only the second story I've ever read that identified teams other than ours that had ticket sales issues. I also had a two-second conversation the other day with a Californian about the Jags. "Oh, they don't even have any fans," he said. Next subject.
This is truly going to be a trip. If we meet our goals of no black outs for the entire season, and other teams have a string of black outs, that will make the national media look like ass for even bothering us last year.
Im happy for the win tonight! go jags! There were so many times we could have loss. LOL
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 27, 2010, 12:16:06 PM
Quote from: kells904 on August 27, 2010, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 27, 2010, 11:45:38 AM
FYI- Just a little something for giggles. Tampa is having a temper tandrum because their games are being blacked out. For thier home opener they drew a crowd of a little over 30,000. Which is sad. We had a crowd of 43,000 in mist of a storm. Im curious to see if the national media is going to jump all over tampa like they did us. Tampa local media is, but I wonder if the national media will.
I highly, highly doubt it. I've been out of the loop since I've been overseas, but is that Brett Favre crap still going on? If it is, that will get all the airtime. That and ESPN's "Tebow Watch". I've lost all respect for them. This is only the second story I've ever read that identified teams other than ours that had ticket sales issues. I also had a two-second conversation the other day with a Californian about the Jags. "Oh, they don't even have any fans," he said. Next subject.
This is truly going to be a trip. If we meet our goals of no black outs for the entire season, and other teams have a string of black outs, that will make the national media look like ass for even bothering us last year.
People only talk about what they see & hear, if the media dont talk it, doesnt exist
Quote from: Coolyfett on August 29, 2010, 03:39:21 AM
People only talk about what they see & hear, if the media dont talk it, doesnt exist
Colleen Dominguez, Sage Steele, Rachel Nichols & Suzy Kolber...4 reasons to watch ESPN. Without them, they've got nothing.
Oh, and "Trickshot Magic" Billiards...5 reasons to watch ESPN.
Tampa Bay has issue's huh? But for some strange reason........they were just fine after winning the Super Bow! Am I the only person that see's a correlation between winning and filling the stadiums? They suffer the same issue that Jacksonville does............win and they will come! Lose and lots of luck because people will not pay to see a loser.......plain and simple! Business 101....from what I remember of it!
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 29, 2010, 08:22:30 AM
Tampa Bay has issue's huh? But for some strange reason........they were just fine after winning the Super Bow! Am I the only person that see's a correlation between winning and filling the stadiums? They suffer the same issue that Jacksonville does............win and they will come! Lose and lots of luck because people will not pay to see a loser.......plain and simple! Business 101....from what I remember of it!
Well, green bay hasn't been to the superbowl since 1998 and someone (literally) has to die in order to get season tickets there.
Fair-weather fans come and go, building a team with die-hard fans takes a long time. We're still a young team. If we can hang in there we'll have a good strong following of die hards.
coredumped..........you have a point! Green Bay dates back to the start and has the fan base to boot! But they also have a tradition of winning to match that time frame! The Jag's have not been around that long and have lots of work to do............but they have to win and establish a winning tradition! This is where we are lacking and we need to win more than we lose.........a record like last year 8 & 6 just won't cut it! We backed into the payoffs and it took help from other teams losing and winning in order for the Jag's to make it into the first round!
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 29, 2010, 04:35:09 PM
coredumped..........you have a point! Green Bay dates back to the start and has the fan base to boot! But they also have a tradition of winning to match that time frame! The Jag's have not been around that long and have lots of work to do............but they have to win and establish a winning tradition! This is where we are lacking and we need to win more than we lose.........a record like last year 8 & 6 just won't cut it! We backed into the payoffs and it took help from other teams losing and winning in order for the Jag's to make it into the first round!
I know they also played all their Games in Milwaukee for a LONGGGGGG time in their early years and that helped build their fan base. Thats why I was shocked however everyone kinda dissed us for the idea of playing out of market games in Orlando. Other small markets, including buffalo and Green bay, has done it. Why cant we?
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 29, 2010, 04:35:09 PM
coredumped..........you have a point! Green Bay dates back to the start and has the fan base to boot! But they also have a tradition of winning to match that time frame! The Jag's have not been around that long and have lots of work to do............but they have to win and establish a winning tradition! This is where we are lacking and we need to win more than we lose.........a record like last year 8 & 6 just won't cut it! We backed into the payoffs and it took help from other teams losing and winning in order for the Jag's to make it into the first round!
I know they also played all their Games in Milwaukee for a LONGGGGGG time in their early years and that helped build their fan base. Thats why I was shocked however everyone kinda dissed us for the idea of playing out of market games in Orlando. Other small markets, including buffalo and Green bay, has done it. Why cant we?
The contract between Jacksonville and the Jaguars that runs through 2030 and is a huge hurdle for any prospective owner to overcome and move the team is the reason all home games are played in Jacksonville.
The contract basically states that every home game for the Jaguars has to be played here at the stadium. This excludes us from being designated as the "home" team for London games, as well as any "home" games played in Orlando.
The Citrus Bowl also has too few Luxury Boxes and Club Seating to allow an NFL team to play there.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
I know they also played all their Games in Milwaukee for a LONGGGGGG time in their early years and that helped build their fan base. Thats why I was shocked however everyone kinda dissed us for the idea of playing out of market games in Orlando. Other small markets, including buffalo and Green bay, has done it. Why cant we?
One reason is the Citrus Bowl is a dump, so you couldn't play there anyway.
QuoteI know they also played all their Games in Milwaukee for a LONGGGGGG time in their early years and that helped build their fan base.
They
never played all their home games in Milwaukee...
QuoteThe first Milwaukee game was played on December 3, 1922, against the Racine Legion. The 1939 Championship between the Packers and the New York Giants was played at State Fair Park. The Packers won, 27-0. The Packers played their final game at County Stadium on December 18, 1994, against the Atlanta Falcons.
QuoteThe Packers maintain two separate season ticket plans, reflecting their time spent in Milwaukee: Gold package holders, made up largely of former Milwaukee season ticket holders, have a three-game package consisting of the annual Midwest Shrine preseason contest plus the second and fifth regular-season home games each year; Green package holders (made up of original Green Bay ticket holders) attend the annual Bishop's Charities preseason game and the remaining six regular-season contests.
:o I'm might have a man crush on Dan Hicken after listening to this clip of him gutting a SI writer aka the national media!
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=61&c=367&f=57154 (http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=61&c=367&f=57154)
Unfortunately, the article is already out there in print. People are going to read it and assume it is true.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 01, 2010, 02:42:51 PM
Unfortunately, the article is already out there in print. People are going to read it and assume it is true.
It was already the general consensus from the 1 million other articles pushing the same angle already out there... at least this time there was a rebuttal.
Quote from: Shwaz on September 01, 2010, 02:54:57 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on September 01, 2010, 02:42:51 PM
Unfortunately, the article is already out there in print. People are going to read it and assume it is true.
It was already the general consensus from the 1 million other articles pushing the same angle already out there... at least this time there was a rebuttal.
And who is going to hear the rebuttal? A few thousand people in Jacksonville as opposed to the millions that read the SI football preview.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 01, 2010, 03:06:21 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on September 01, 2010, 02:54:57 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on September 01, 2010, 02:42:51 PM
Unfortunately, the article is already out there in print. People are going to read it and assume it is true.
It was already the general consensus from the 1 million other articles pushing the same angle already out there... at least this time there was a rebuttal.
And who is going to hear the rebuttal? A few thousand people in Jacksonville as opposed to the millions that read the SI football preview.
Copper did I say 'this local radio-show clip is going to reverse the national image of professional sports in Jacksonville?
I give zero shits what someone in Idaho or anywhere for that matter thinks of the NFL in Jacksonville.
I'm just happy to see a national writer called out for an article detailing the imminent death of a sports team in a city he's never stepped foot in.
Quote from: Shwaz on September 01, 2010, 03:19:07 PM
Copper did I say 'this local radio-show clip is going to reverse the national image of professional sports in Jacksonville?
I never suggested you did.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 29, 2010, 04:35:09 PM
coredumped..........you have a point! Green Bay dates back to the start and has the fan base to boot! But they also have a tradition of winning to match that time frame! The Jag's have not been around that long and have lots of work to do............but they have to win and establish a winning tradition! This is where we are lacking and we need to win more than we lose.........a record like last year 8 & 6 just won't cut it! We backed into the payoffs and it took help from other teams losing and winning in order for the Jag's to make it into the first round!
I know they also played all their Games in Milwaukee for a LONGGGGGG time in their early years and that helped build their fan base. Thats why I was shocked however everyone kinda dissed us for the idea of playing out of market games in Orlando. Other small markets, including buffalo and Green bay, has done it. Why cant we?
I think the Florida preseason games should be played in orlando. Tb vs Jax, Jax vs Mia & Mia vs Tb should be played there.
just playing Debbie Downer then... cause yours obviously downplaying the interview because the 'millions of people that read SI' vs the few thousand that listen to the radio show.
Quote from: Shwaz on September 01, 2010, 02:38:09 PM
:o I'm might have a man crush on Dan Hicken after listening to this clip of him gutting a SI writer aka the national media!
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=61&c=367&f=57154 (http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=61&c=367&f=57154)
I just listened to that. Have new respect for Hicken. Great stuff.
Normally, I can't stomach Hicken and Prosser's show since Boselli left... but today I had the RARE opportunity to go into work late and happened to catch this very segment.
Wow, it was seriously worth all the Gator Homerism to have listened to them totally rake the SI guy over the proverbial coals.
The last thing the guy said was 'point well taken' and Hicken and Prosser split him a new crack and finally hung up on him, LOL. It really got my day off on the righ foot, and I had a pretty bad day yesterday so I wasn't expecting much from today... until I heard that. A sincere thanks to FSR for really turning me week around!!
Quote from: jandar on August 30, 2010, 08:15:17 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 29, 2010, 04:35:09 PM
coredumped..........you have a point! Green Bay dates back to the start and has the fan base to boot! But they also have a tradition of winning to match that time frame! The Jag's have not been around that long and have lots of work to do............but they have to win and establish a winning tradition! This is where we are lacking and we need to win more than we lose.........a record like last year 8 & 6 just won't cut it! We backed into the payoffs and it took help from other teams losing and winning in order for the Jag's to make it into the first round!
I know they also played all their Games in Milwaukee for a LONGGGGGG time in their early years and that helped build their fan base. Thats why I was shocked however everyone kinda dissed us for the idea of playing out of market games in Orlando. Other small markets, including buffalo and Green bay, has done it. Why cant we?
The contract between Jacksonville and the Jaguars that runs through 2030 and is a huge hurdle for any prospective owner to overcome and move the team is the reason all home games are played in Jacksonville.
The contract basically states that every home game for the Jaguars has to be played here at the stadium. This excludes us from being designated as the "home" team for London games, as well as any "home" games played in Orlando.
The Citrus Bowl also has too few Luxury Boxes and Club Seating to allow an NFL team to play there.
Per the Business Journal today, they are still trying to make the "out of market" in orlando happen. But they have outlined that there are alot of hurdles and will not be easy. Check it out:
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/08/30/daily32.html
It didn't say anything about the team trying to make a game in Orlando happen. It had one quote from Dan Edwards and lot of quotes from people in Orlando connected to the tourism industry.
They don't have a stadium capable of hosting NFL football. Huge hurdle. And there is a team playing an hour or so west of Orlando that has bigger ticket issues right now than we do.
T
Quote from: duvaldude08 on September 03, 2010, 12:43:27 PM
Quote from: jandar on August 30, 2010, 08:15:17 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2010, 08:03:13 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 29, 2010, 04:35:09 PM
coredumped..........you have a point! Green Bay dates back to the start and has the fan base to boot! But they also have a tradition of winning to match that time frame! The Jag's have not been around that long and have lots of work to do............but they have to win and establish a winning tradition! This is where we are lacking and we need to win more than we lose.........a record like last year 8 & 6 just won't cut it! We backed into the payoffs and it took help from other teams losing and winning in order for the Jag's to make it into the first round!
I know they also played all their Games in Milwaukee for a LONGGGGGG time in their early years and that helped build their fan base. Thats why I was shocked however everyone kinda dissed us for the idea of playing out of market games in Orlando. Other small markets, including buffalo and Green bay, has done it. Why cant we?
The contract between Jacksonville and the Jaguars that runs through 2030 and is a huge hurdle for any prospective owner to overcome and move the team is the reason all home games are played in Jacksonville.
The contract basically states that every home game for the Jaguars has to be played here at the stadium. This excludes us from being designated as the "home" team for London games, as well as any "home" games played in Orlando.
The Citrus Bowl also has too few Luxury Boxes and Club Seating to allow an NFL team to play there.
Per the Business Journal today, they are still trying to make the "out of market" in orlando happen. But they have outlined that there are alot of hurdles and will not be easy. Check it out:
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/08/30/daily32.html
It was written by an Orlando Business Journal, and those are linked to other business journals.
Look at the header:
Jacksonville Business Journal -
by Richard Bilbao Orlando Business JournalOrlando and the Jaguars can talk all they want, but the COJ needs to allow the break in the contract without ramifications.
I wonder if that quote from the Jaguars front office guy was even recent or from last fall when this was first casually mentioned.
I think it could be a good thing to play a home game in Orlando every year, even if the stadium is sold out on a season-ticket basis. I know the initial logic was the same as the Buffalo/Toronto logic, to reduce the local ticket-buying burden (especially if the regular season goes to 18), but expanding the Jaguars' footprint (pawprint?) is a more important consideration. We have no reliable secondary market. Metro Buffalo is smaller than Jacksonville but the Bills have secondary market support in Rochester, Syracuse, Erie, and Toronto. Metro New Orleans is about the same size as Jacksonville, but the Saints draw from other markets in Louisiana and Mississippi. Green Bay, of course, draws from Milwaukee and the rest of Wisconsin. Nashville and Indianapolis do not have much bigger metros than Jacksonville but have become statewide draws. Metro Denver in the 1970s was roughly the size of metro Jacksonville now, but the Broncos already had years of experience of reaching out to secondary markets throughout the Rocky Mountain region.
The massive early success of the Jaguars in just drawing locally may have precluded their making more extensive pushes to pull from secondary markets. (I notice, for instance, the steady decline in size of the Jaguars' radio network from 1995 to now.) Reaching out to Daytona and Orlando, or even Savannah and Charleston, should help take the pressure off Jacksonville over time to essentially support the team by itself--something no other small-market NFL city is called upon to do. Obviously, there is competition from the Falcons to the north, from the Bucs and Dolphins to the south, but the Jaguars probably need to throw their hats into the ring in some of these potential secondary markets.
Of course, the problem is that the Citrus Bowl is not up to NFL standards and the UCF stadium is not NFL-sized. Maybe a preseason game could shift to the Citrus every year? The Dolphins used to do it.
What we really need to be doing is advertising in the central Florida market this year for new fans to make some road trips to Jax. The Jags will be the Florida team on their TVs a lot this year.
I still don't understand why an 18 game season would make it more likely that a game could be played in Orlando. When it is approved, the preseason will be shortened to two games. So right now you are buying seasons for 10 games, two preseason and eight regular season. The per game price is the same no matter what. When the 18 game season starts, you will still have season tickets for 10 games, but will be gaining a regular season game. If anything, that will help season ticket sales.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 03, 2010, 02:59:59 PM
I still don't understand why an 18 game season would make it more likely that a game could be played in Orlando. When it is approved, the preseason will be shortened to two games. So right now you are buying seasons for 10 games, two preseason and eight regular season. The per game price is the same no matter what. When the 18 game season starts, you will still have season tickets for 10 games, but will be gaining a regular season game. If anything, that will help season ticket sales.
It might make it more likely that the preseason game is played in Orlando. Gaining a regular season game ought to help season ticket and single-game sales but might make the single preseason home game a colder ticket. I'm not sure how the half-pack concept would work in a scenario with 9 regular season games and 1 preseason game. (Hopefully we will be solid out on a season ticket basis by that point and make the half pack issue moot.)
I don't see them moving the only home preseason game out of town.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on September 03, 2010, 02:45:55 PM
I think it could be a good thing to play a home game in Orlando every year, even if the stadium is sold out on a season-ticket basis. I know the initial logic was the same as the Buffalo/Toronto logic, to reduce the local ticket-buying burden (especially if the regular season goes to 18), but expanding the Jaguars' footprint (pawprint?) is a more important consideration. We have no reliable secondary market. Metro Buffalo is smaller than Jacksonville but the Bills have secondary market support in Rochester, Syracuse, Erie, and Toronto. Metro New Orleans is about the same size as Jacksonville, but the Saints draw from other markets in Louisiana and Mississippi. Green Bay, of course, draws from Milwaukee and the rest of Wisconsin. Nashville and Indianapolis do not have much bigger metros than Jacksonville but have become statewide draws. Metro Denver in the 1970s was roughly the size of metro Jacksonville now, but the Broncos already had years of experience of reaching out to secondary markets throughout the Rocky Mountain region.
The massive early success of the Jaguars in just drawing locally may have precluded their making more extensive pushes to pull from secondary markets. (I notice, for instance, the steady decline in size of the Jaguars' radio network from 1995 to now.) Reaching out to Daytona and Orlando, or even Savannah and Charleston, should help take the pressure off Jacksonville over time to essentially support the team by itself--something no other small-market NFL city is called upon to do. Obviously, there is competition from the Falcons to the north, from the Bucs and Dolphins to the south, but the Jaguars probably need to throw their hats into the ring in some of these potential secondary markets.
What about Brunwick, Waycross, Valdosta & Savannah...Jax could get those towns before Atl
well Brunswick and Waycross are already in the Jax. TV market....Valdosta goes with Tallahassee
How about the people who live right here in Jacksonville go to the games end of problem end of story. All our problems lay right here in Jax not on the out skirts of town.
From CNNSI:
Rams' return to L.A. may have legsQuoteDowntown L.A. has proven capable of supporting teams, and the next step may be add a stadium complex. L.A. lost two teams 16 years ago, and might begin anew with two teams again, including the Rams. Stan Kroenke owns the Rams, as well as Denver's basketball and hockey teams. He will have to sell his Denver interests unless he becomes owner of the Broncos. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen is having health issues. Someone has suggested it makes sense for Kroenke to exchange franchises with Bowlen, taking ownership of the Broncos and allowing Bowlen to move the Rams to L.A.Quote
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/247190-rams-return-to-la-may-have-legs?eref=fromSI
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on September 06, 2010, 02:41:51 AM
How about the people who live right here in Jacksonville go to the games end of problem end of story. All our problems lay right here in Jax not on the out skirts of town.
Some of the problems lie in Duval county but not all. If it were up to just us, that means 1 in every 12 residents would have to attend a game. (going off the 850,000 population ranking) 1 in 13 if you include the 2010 estimate.
We need the entire region's help to fill that stadium.
Ok, we need 70,000 people of the 1.3 million people that live in jax metro to show up 8 times a year. That is a staggeringly small number.
That's 560,000 seats to fill. Some of those seats are season ticket holders and some are single or double ticket buyers. Either way, 560,000 is a large number in relation to 1.3 million. The number of seats to fill would be even higher if we had a pro baseball team considering how many games they have. I still think we can do it (Jaguars I mean).
Somebody please kill this thread. ::)
Oh my gosh...A write up about Los Angeles by Peter King on CNNSI and it doesn't mention the Jaguars. I'm in shock.
"This is the best chance Los Angeles has to get a team in a long time.
Nothing's going to happen until after the owners and players get a new collective bargaining agreement, but once that happens, I expect, as I said on NBC last night, the league to get cracking on bringing one of the 32 teams to a new stadium adjacent to the Staples Center and LA Live complex in downtown Los Angeles.
All along, what's held the NFL back is either that the league didn't really want to be at the Coliseum -- and USC wasn't crazy about having the NFL there -- or the league didn't want to be in the endless 'burbs of southern California. But the backers of the new stadium, Casey Wasserman and Tim Leiweke, are well-connected guys who want to build the kind of retractable-roof events center that could be used to attract the 2022 World Cup final (or some future World Cup) and Final Fours, as well as an NFL team. Influential owners in the league are excited about the Los Angeles prospect ending a generation-long drought in the city, and these are owners who -- I can tell you with certainty -- have not been nearly as excited about any of the previous L.A. ventures.
As for the team to play there, the obvious candidates are San Diego (likely the favorite, unless a stadium gets built there, which appears increasingly unlikely) or Oakland. I'd say San Diego's more likely, but this thing has a couple of years to play out. "
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/11/14/monday-morning-qb-week-10/1.html#ixzz15MNMMfgA
The Raiders belong in LA, but also belong in Oakland. The writer of this article seems pretty level headed. Not having a team in LA is not holding the league back lol. 3 more games for Jax, fill those games and its a peaceful offseason.
Amid L.A. rumors, Chargers owner to sell shareQuoteChargers minority stake for sale
SAN DIEGO( AP) -- San Diego Chargers owner Alex Spanos is looking to sell a minority stake to help with estate planning.
Attorney Mark Fabiani, who has led the Chargers' push for a new stadium since 2002, said Tuesday that the percentage to be sold will be determined by negotiations with a potential buyer. The 87-year-old Spanos and his wife, Faye, own 36 percent of the team. Their four children each own 15 percent. Two minority owners own the other 4 percent.
"To be clear, this is a sale of a minority stake only; the Spanos family will continue to hold a controlling majority stake in the team under all circumstances," Fabiani said in an e-mail to The Associated Press.
The sale was first reported by FanHouse.com.
Spanos, a billionaire developer who lives in Stockton, revealed two years ago that he suffers from dementia. His son, Dean, is president of the Chargers, the only NFL team in Southern California.
Fabiani said the sale of the minority share has nothing to do with efforts to get a new stadium built in San Diego. The team is currently exploring options to build a $750 million stadium east of Petco Park in downtown. The team could eventually seek hundreds of millions of dollars in public assistance.
The Chargers have long been rumored as a possible tenant if a new stadium is built in Los Angeles. The team began play in 1960 as the Los Angeles Chargers of the AFL. After attracting small crowds at the Coliseum, it moved to San Diego prior to the 1961 season.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/11/16/chargers-sale.ap/index.html
Plenty of buzz right now:
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/sports/Wheels-in-Motion-For-Chargers-Move-To-LA-108697669.html
nice to not even have Jacksonville mentioned!
When will they realize the fact that LA is not an NFL city. You put a team there, it will be gone within 20 years. That is the history, why do any of these people think it will turn out any different. LA is a basketball and college football city.
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/news/story?id=5868477
QuoteTwo L.A. groups approach Vikings
Two different groups interested in bringing an NFL team to Los Angeles have approached the Minnesota Vikings about possible relocation, Vikings vice president of public affairs Lester Bagley said in a chat on the team's website Tuesday.
"We have been approached by two different groups in Los Angeles -- the Ed Roski group and more recently by former Timberwolves CEO Tim Leiweke and AEG," Bagley said in the chat.
Bagley said team owner Zygi Wilf and Vikings management toured L.A. Live, an entertainment complex located in the city's downtown area, in 2009. According to Bagley, the group was looking for ideas on building a similiar entertainment district in Minnesota.
The Vikings are in their final year of their lease at the Metrodome and have been pushing to get a new stadium approved.
The Minnesota Twins and the University of Minnesota football team have moved out of the outdated building into shiny new facilities of their own. Since 2002, the Vikings have been playing in the Metrodome rent-free, a gesture made to acknowledge the building's difficulty in producing revenue.
Bagley said the Vikings have told both interested groups that the organization is "focused on resolving the issue in Minnesota."
"We feel solid momentum and feel we're well-positioned with the new legislature and governor," he said in the chat. "Instead of spending energy speculating on other markets, let's keep the focus on building a world-class facility for the community and the state of Minnesota."
Both the Rams and the Raiders were once a part of the nation's second-biggest market in Los Angeles.
Speaking at a fundraiser for downtown Los Angeles in early October, Leiweke said he was still working on getting an NFL team to the area. Leiweke also said he's committed to working with city officials and AEG's Phillip Anshutz to make a downtown stadium a reality.
Magic Johnson appears to be on board with Leiweke. On Tuesday, Johnson announced on "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" that he is partnering with AEG to bring an existing NFL team to Los Angeles.
Roski has permission to build an NFL stadium in Industry, Calif., about 15 miles outside of downtown Los Angeles.
Meanwhile, an attorney for the San Diego Chargers denied a report Tuesday by a Toronto radio station that Anschutz will buy 35 percent of Southern California's only NFL team.
The report immediately elevated speculation that the Chargers could be headed to Los Angeles.
The Chargers recently announced that owner Alex Spanos is looking to sell a minority stake to help with estate planning.
"There is no truth to the rumor out of Toronto that the Chargers have agreed to sell a portion of the team to Mr. Anschutz," Chargers attorney Mark Fabiani said in a statement late Tuesday night.
The report was on Fan 590.
Personally I hope the Vikings are not a candidate. The NFL loves Minnesota and the long history of football there. If they were to move out west it would only be a few years before talk began of what team would be moving the land of a thousand lakes.
Quote from: Shwaz on December 01, 2010, 09:11:15 AM
The NFL loves Minnesota and the long history of football there. If they were to move out west it would only be a few years before talk began of what team would be moving the land of a thousand lakes.
It would probably be the same with San Diego, since it is a big and growing market, and the Chargers have been around for as long as the Vikings have. It'd probably be a different story with Oakland or Buffalo; no one would be clamoring to move teams into those markets if the Raiders or Bills relocated. Not sure about the Rams. I've more than once seen flippant comments online saying "Move the Rams to L.A. and the Jaguars to St. Louis to correct both of the NFL's 90s mistakes," but I'll chalk that up to ignorance. St. Louis is a pretty big market, but not a fast-growing one, and its baseball team is first in its collective sports heart.
Anyway, I don't root for any team to move because it'd be hypocritical of me to do that, and I don't root for Los Angeles to ever get a team with the Roski group's condescension and glaring sense of entitlement.
keep in mind that the Chargers started out as the LA Chargers....moved to San Diego after their first year
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 01, 2010, 09:17:05 AM
Quote from: Shwaz on December 01, 2010, 09:11:15 AM
The NFL loves Minnesota and the long history of football there. If they were to move out west it would only be a few years before talk began of what team would be moving the land of a thousand lakes.
It would probably be the same with San Diego, since it is a big and growing market, and the Chargers have been around for as long as the Vikings have. It'd probably be a different story with Oakland or Buffalo; no one would be clamoring to move teams into those markets if the Raiders or Bills relocated. Not sure about the Rams. I've more than once seen flippant comments online saying "Move the Rams to L.A. and the Jaguars to St. Louis to correct both of the NFL's 90s mistakes," but I'll chalk that up to ignorance. St. Louis is a pretty big market, but not a fast-growing one, and its baseball team is first in its collective sports heart.
Anyway, I don't root for any team to move because it'd be hypocritical of me to do that, and I don't root for Los Angeles to ever get a team with the Roski group's condescension and glaring sense of entitlement.
I disagree that the NFL would want back in San Diego with a team so close in LA, the attendance they're having and also stadium issues.
I can understand what you mean, but Vic Ketchman has implied that the NFL would prefer not to leave San Diego and that the attendance is deemed to have something more to do with the stadium situation and the potentially-leaving cloud hanging over the team. (My assumption, which I didn't phrase well, was that SD and Minneapolis would potentially get new stadia in the works within a few years in the hopes of attracting a team--something like the Cleveland situation repeating itself.)
Also, SD fans are LOUD every time I watch a game, and always have been; sensitive as I am to people's misperceptions of Jacksonville's football passion, it's hard for me to perceive a lack of football passion there.
I definitely don't criticize their fans for lack of passion and you're probably right that it comes down to stadium issues... but from what I gather their is no current plan to build a new stadium there. Maybe Roski can take his business a little further south and build stadium / buy a minority stake in the Chargers?
I wonder if it would be logistically possible to build a stadium further south of LA to draw from both LA and SD, but considering travel conditions there, probably a nightmare.
Forget LA and the whole state of California. I just hope the Jaguars finish this season well and get another good crop of STH.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 01, 2010, 12:12:34 PM
I wonder if it would be logistically possible to build a stadium further south of LA to draw from both LA and SD, but considering travel conditions there, probably a nightmare.
that would be called Anaheim...where the Rams used to play
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 01, 2010, 12:56:40 PM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 01, 2010, 12:12:34 PM
I wonder if it would be logistically possible to build a stadium further south of LA to draw from both LA and SD, but considering travel conditions there, probably a nightmare.
that would be called Anaheim...where the Rams used to play
I was meaning further south and closer to the coast. E.g. going toward Oceanside but not that far south.
LA still wants a team??
They need to break ground on a stadium first. In my opinon, it was all blown out of proportion by the media. I honestly think the plan will eventually die off. The NFL is not really pushing for it anyways.
QuoteNFL wants LA to have a team.
Owners run the league, so if an owner wants to pickup and move the team or sell out, its their sandbox to play in. Weaver is not ready to sell yet, and he has a great stadium and new revenue from Everbank/BCBSF. I say we have the team for at least the period of the Everbank deal.
Now to sell the remaining tickets for the Raiders and Skins.
Well, its all over ESPN that because of the metrodome collapse the vikings may be heading for LA.
If Thats tru, thats not cool Viking fans are just as loyal as Bears & Packer fans, this better be like the Katrina thing with the Saints.
^^^It has nothing to do with loyalty though. If Im not mistaken, they were one of the teams who have been warned for awhile about their stadium issues for some time now. Business is business ya know?
It also kind of concerns me that the "dome" is so flemsy? Why didnt they build it with something that was more sterdy? Also, I could see the NFL being really concerned because had that happen during a game, that could have been mass confusion and a huge mess.
As badly as I want the Jags to stay here permanently, I refuse to root for another franchise -- especially one as important to a city as the Vikings are to Minneapolis -- to move to Los Angeles. All of the teams and cities on the supposed "chopping block" need to come together and say we refuse to be bullied by these arrogant pricks in L.A.They aren't entitled to a damn thing.
Anyone else see Gay Culverhouse's opinion of the Jaguars in Florida Trend?
"You look at the Jaguars and you know they are going to end up moving. People do not have the disposable income to support the team. My fear is the state of Florida is going to lose an NFL team and that does not bode well for the economy. It's a black eye. It's the mark of a loser."
http://www.floridatrend.com/article.asp?aID=54047
I don't agree with a team in LA either. But the reality is that stadium is a hazard. I hope they can pull something out the hat next year they may be doomed. At this point, from what I read on ESPN, they have only been talking to the chargers and raiders about moving to LA. And they have been having talks with Minnesota too. I am happy that we fixed our problems real quick. Naming rights deal + ticket sales= Revenue and a winning team all in one season. We are a long from selling out the stadium though. But we have drawn alot of fans this year. I have friend who always HATED the Jags and now they are going to games and buying seasons tickets next year. But I do agree, LA does not need or deserve a third team period.
Quote from: Scarlettjax on December 15, 2010, 09:23:20 PM
Anyone else see Gay Culverhouse's opinion of the Jaguars in Florida Trend?
She need to worry about all of those blackouts in Tampa and quit worrying about us up here in Duval. She obviously don't know what the hell she's talking about.
Quote from: Scarlettjax on December 15, 2010, 09:23:20 PM
Anyone else see Gay Culverhouse's opinion of the Jaguars in Florida Trend?
"You look at the Jaguars and you know they are going to end up moving. People do not have the disposable income to support the team. My fear is the state of Florida is going to lose an NFL team and that does not bode well for the economy. It's a black eye. It's the mark of a loser."
http://www.floridatrend.com/article.asp?aID=54047
I see her picture and she just screams major bitch to me, IMO.
Quote from: I-10east on December 15, 2010, 09:43:05 PM
Quote from: Scarlettjax on December 15, 2010, 09:23:20 PM
Anyone else see Gay Culverhouse's opinion of the Jaguars in Florida Trend?
She need to worry about all of those blackouts in Tampa and quit worrying about us up here in Duval. She obviously don't know what the hell she's talking about.
+10
Who the hell is Gay Culverhouse and who cares about her opinion? Some Tampa blowhard?
Nice photo, btw. I would've vetoed that shot...
Quote from: duvaldude08 on December 15, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Well, its all over ESPN that because of the metrodome collapse the vikings may be heading for LA.
Too funny, like the Lakers when they moved to LA in the 60's. The Vikes would just be following the pattern.
Quote from: I-10east on December 15, 2010, 09:43:05 PM
Quote from: Scarlettjax on December 15, 2010, 09:23:20 PM
Anyone else see Gay Culverhouse's opinion of the Jaguars in Florida Trend?
She need to worry about all of those blackouts in Tampa and quit worrying about us up here in Duval. She obviously don't know what the hell she's talking about.
I agree (+11) on the quit worrying about us approach, however, being a former President of the Bucs, she probably has some insights on what kind of demographics are needed to drive NFL Team sustainability.
So in response to that remark, I could only say our demographics currently fills the stadium, but not the boxes. Tampa's demographics fills the boxes, but not the stands.
Owners traditionally make more on boxes than on general seating (just look at the new Meadowlands as a gory example)
Sustainability is more suited towards television ad revenue today, so I think the Jags have it right. Fill the stadium, stay on TV, get the ad revenue and maintain exposure to your audience.
What I wanna know is where is Publix for Tampa? (FL's golden boy supermarket chain that can't do no wrong) How come Publix (Central FL Fortune 500 company) isn't picking up some slack and buying Bucs tickets to avoid blackouts similar like Winn Dixie did for the Jags? Publix is one of the few companies in FL that seem to be immune to the recession; They are still doing very well. Maybe I'm wrong and Publix did do alot for the Bucs, but all I know is that TB are having blackouts this year. Please nobody give me any BS about companies "spoiling" the fans because of them buying tickets; In the NFL, Green Bay is probably one of the few places were big companies aren't buying up loads of tickets. Contrary to popular belief Winn Dixie most likely saved the franchise here in Jax when they brought tickets, but all idiots wanna do is blame W/D for "spoiling" us; If you disagree with me, imagine the negative publicity Jax would have gotten with blackouts early in the Jags existence; You think the Natl' media was harsh last year! Atleast we (Jags) had a lil' history of selling out games before the economy hit us.
why does that article give me the following impressions about Ms. Culverhouse?
most of her listed injuries have come from bar fights and not horse riding.
she is delusional: 3 blood diseases from a 9/11 proximity. really?
she has had 1 to many brain injuries herself.
she goes both ways, not her grandson.
she doesn’t seem mentally stable enough to carry a concealed weapon.
her alter ego is Aileen Wuornos.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on December 01, 2010, 03:14:31 PM
They need to break ground on a stadium first. In my opinon, it was all blown out of proportion by the media. I honestly think the plan will eventually die off. The NFL is not really pushing for it anyways.
Not anymore because, Jacksonville shut the talk up THIS year. We will see what happens in the future.
^ remember how many times Jax was used by other teams posturing for their city to build them a new stadium before we had the Jags. I personally think it is all bs.
Time to bury this thread right next to the Blackout thread. RIP Blackout Thread,,,
http://jaguars.com/fuel/2010Season.aspx
Congrats Jags fans, all 8 games blackouts lifted.
Take that and stick it LA!
Nice! Any objections to closing this thread as well?
What say you!
As much as I disliked the use of the blackout thread for even positive Jags news and favored its closing, I do feel that this one has merit. LA looking for a franchise will continue to be a big story, and even with our success this year, the Jags will always be talked about as a possible candidate -- fairly or unfairly -- due to the size of our market. It's kind of nice to have this topic to keep up on the LA news and rumors.
Quote from: KenFSU on December 22, 2010, 10:22:48 AM
As much as I disliked the use of the blackout thread for even positive Jags news and favored its closing, I do feel that this one has merit. LA looking for a franchise will continue to be a big story, and even with our success this year, the Jags will always be talked about as a possible candidate -- fairly or unfairly -- due to the size of our market. It's kind of nice to have this topic to keep up on the LA news and rumors.
Well actually, form the last story on sport illustrated about a month ago, they have narrowed it down to the raiders and chargers. And they will definately be on the vikings tail after the metrodome collapse. But I doubt if it happens period for anyone. First off, there are in another group that wants to build a stadium as well, so thats an issue. Then too, honestly, no one wants to sell their team. I think the most likely candidates will be the ones with stadium issues to be honest. If someone was going to sell there team it would have happened by now.
Quote from: KenFSU on December 22, 2010, 10:22:48 AM
LA looking for a franchise will continue to be a big story, and even with our success this year, the Jags will always be talked about as a possible candidate --
With the Jags continuing to sell out, the "Jags to LA" crap is dead concerning anyone credible in the media. Only the anti-Jax trolls on sites like PFT will continue the LA Jag propaganda.
This is another tread that needs to be killed. I wish someone would lock it.
I think that people in Jax should be looking for a new owner loyal to Jax to buy the team when Weaver or his family finally sells it. He has made it known that when he gets too old and/or passes on, his family has no interest in retaining ownership. This is likely the biggest risk of all to the team staying in Jax. A new investor, paying much more for the team than Weaver did, will be much more hard nosed about the numbers than Weaver has been. Jax will really have its work cut out then unless such investor has an emotional commitment to the City like Weaver does.
Quote from: stjr on December 24, 2010, 07:17:19 PM
Jax will really have its work cut out then unless such investor has an emotional commitment to the City like Weaver does.
I think that the whole 'New owner is gonna flee Jax" thing is highly overblown, like we are some undesired city or something. Another thing that is overblown is the whole "If we lose the Jags, we're never gonna get another NFL team" Nobody knows that! If Charlotte can lose the Hornets to NOLA, and get another franchise (Bobcats), anything can happen. Of course I don't want the Jags to go nowhere.
If we lose the jags we wont get another team!
What kinda crystal ball do you have?
The Kind that says Jax wont get another team if we lose the one we have. Unlike L.A theres no big productions going on here, no large television market and so on and so on. I'm thankful we have a team, but listening to the way some people talk in this area they take it for granted. Its more than just winning games. Jags organization does alot for our community. If any one thinks that we could lose the jags and then get another team later, your dreaming and probably should put that bottle down.
Continue playing the "Jax inferiority complex card". It's all good, if the "inferiority card" will motivate Jag fans to go to games like it's the last NFL game played in this city, then that's cool. Of all the cities that lost a NFL team how many got another NFL team? Nearly all of them! The only one (besides LA so far) that I can think of lost it's status as a NFL city "forever" is the Canton Bulldogs, and the city of Canton has the NFL HOF! So continue to use words that hold no weight like "never". Notice the "never" argument always progresses in time; Jax will "never" get the Super Bowl; Then that turns into Jax will "never" get the SB again...and..so on...and so on until 50 percent of Jax residents gets high blood pressure. This has nothing to do with me being a "Duval homer", I'm just a person that's living in reality, and I know I can't play God.
Keep dreaming buddy! and you are a Duval homer, you take offense to every and anything negative said about Jax which many of them are very true. I think Weaver and the players have won many new fans this yr by getting more involved with the community and the thrilling victories at home this yr have certainly help. Along with the new payment plans for STH I think things will be even better for next season. Inferiority card has nothing to do with it. I was born and raised here so it will always be my home. Anyway Go Jags, lets get a win Sun.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 24, 2010, 11:48:48 PM
If we lose the jags we wont get another team!
I agree Keith. i dont think we would either. Being that we were blessed to even get a team with being such a small market, they probably wouldnt even think it would be worth giving a second chance. I agree with you. However, the jags are so Im happy!! Go Jags!
Quote from: stjr on December 24, 2010, 07:17:19 PM
I think that people in Jax should be looking for a new owner loyal to Jax to buy the team when Weaver or his family finally sells it. He has made it known that when he gets too old and/or passes on, his family has no interest in retaining ownership. This is likely the biggest risk of all to the team staying in Jax. A new investor, paying much more for the team than Weaver did, will be much more hard nosed about the numbers than Weaver has been. Jax will really have its work cut out then unless such investor has an emotional commitment to the City like Weaver does.
If Im not mistaken, I heard the wayne weaver was supposed to be putting some kind clause in the contract that whoever buys the team can not move for until X amount of years after his death. (or something like that.) Im going to try to find the article I was reading and post it.
I didn't say we will lose the team or that we wouldn't ever replace it again if we did lose it.
I merely tried to highlight what I think is the greatest risk to keeping the team we currently have. If someone pays $750 million to $1 billion for the team, the possible worth of it according to press reports, vs. the $125 million or so I recall Weaver paying for it, their economics are going to be much more stressed (not counting any new rules regarding allocating League and/or team revenues that favor larger markets). Unlike Weaver, they may require ALL the club seats and suites to be sold. I understand we are quite a bit short still in this area. These seats are not required to be sold to avoid blackouts so they are not addressed publicly as much as the non-premium seats. A new owner might also require that all the covered seats be sold as well. That's a far higher bar than we are currently meeting. Not saying we can't do it, just that's the greatest risk to maintaining the team in Jax in my opinion.
Looks like I pegged things pretty well based on these excerpted quotes from Wayne Weaver in today's Times Union article by Vic Stellino:QuoteWayne Weaver was candid in pointing out that avoiding TV blackouts by selling slightly more than 50,000 non-premium tickets doesn't solve all the problems. The Jaguars also have 13,000 premium seats, which account for almost 60 percent of the team's revenue. They need to sell 4,500 to 5,000 that went unsold last year.
"We've really struggled with our premium tickets," he said.
He said only about half of the club seats on the east side are sold, and the cameras are aimed at that side of the field.
"It's an eyesore," Weaver said. "We've got to figure out what is the sweet spot that is going to help sell those seats."
The Jaguars have reduced prices for most club seats and might try to get buyers to share unsold suites.
Overall, though, selling the non-premium seats and lifting the TV blackouts is a positive first step in securing Jacksonville's future in the NFL.
Weaver, who said he hasn't been approached by any representatives of Los Angeles, has said he and wife Delores plan to sell the team at some point in the future, but he hasn't set a timetable to do that.
If the team keeps avoiding the TV blackouts, it might be easier to find a buyer willing to keep the team in Jacksonville.
Weaver said he knows the kind of buyer he wants.
"Someone who shares our vision about the market and has a commitment to the market," he said.
http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2010-12-26/story/12th-man-responds-jaguars-complete-home-schedule-no
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 25, 2010, 05:38:15 PM
Keep dreaming buddy! and you are a Duval homer, you take offense to every and anything negative said about Jax which many of them are very true.
I'm stating facts, and you're saying an opinion. If you can show me the document in Roger Goodell's office that's saying "If the Jaguars leave Jacksonville, that city will NEVER get a NFL team again"; Your agrument holds weight if you can show me that document. Talk about recording everything that the national media blowhards say! Maybe I'm not so "homer" as you are "paranoid".
Some more rumblings coming from the "city of a-holes"
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/news/story?id=6078709 (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/news/story?id=6078709)
QuoteFarmers to sponsor LA stadium
EmailPrintComments
59
By Arash Markazi
ESPNLosAngeles.com
Archive
LOS ANGELES -- If the NFL does return to a proposed stadium in downtown Los Angeles, the league's newest venue will be called Farmers Field.
Developer AEG and Farmers Insurance Exchange announced the naming rights deal Tuesday in advance of a press conference.
They did not reveal terms of the pact, but sources told ESPNLosAngeles.com that it is worth $700 million over 30 years. A source told The Associated Press that the deal could be worth $1 billion if the stadium were to attract more than one NFL team.
The announcement will take place inside the West Hall of the Los Angeles Convention Center, a building AEG plans to demolish to build their proposed 64,000-seat retractable roof stadium, which would connect to the current convention center.
AEG president and CEO Tim Leiweke had said he needed this kind of "contractually obligated income" to make the proposed stadium a reality. It seemed like a daunting task when he first announced his idea for downtown stadium in April considering newly built stadiums such as Cowboys Stadium and the New Meadowlands Stadium have yet to secure naming rights deals.
Even with a naming rights deal in place, Leiweke and AEG still have several hurdles to clear before they can begin construction. The company must still pass an environmental impact review, complete the entitlement process and come to a long-term land lease agreement with the city. AEG is also asking the city to issue $350 million in bonds which would help build a new extension to the convention center that would replace the torn down West Hall and additional parking units. Leiweke has said ticket-tax revenue will pay off the debt and AEG would write a check for any shortfalls.
A competing proposal by billionaire developer Ed Roski of Majestic Realty to build a 75,000-seat open-air football stadium in the City of Industry is shovel-ready after getting two approved environmental impact reports. While Leiweke has promised no tax-payer dollars would be used in the proposed downtown project, his opponents in Industry are arguing otherwise.
"AEG is expecting taxpayers to dole out well over a billion dollars for a proposal that will compromise the City's general fund, the L.A. Convention Center, the new stadium and the financial success of any potential NFL team," said John Semcken, vice president of Majestic Reality, who has been working with Roski over the last 15 years to attract an NFL team back to Los Angeles.
Leiweke called the comments "fear tactics" and seems to have the support of city politicians, many of whom, such as Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, will be in attendance at Tuesday's press conference.
Earlier this month, Leiweke had hinted this agreement was forthcoming and that it would be the most significant sign yet that the NFL would finally be returning to Los Angeles for the first time since 1995.
"By the time we hit the Super Bowl we're going to have an announcement that proves to everyone once and for all that this project is going to happen," Leiweke said. "It's going to be private and it's going to be brilliant and it's going to happen."
Arash Markazi is a columnist and writer for ESPNLosAngeles.com.
QuoteThe announcement will take place inside the West Hall of the Los Angeles Convention Center, a building AEG plans to demolish to build their proposed 64,000-seat retractable roof stadium, which would connect to the current convention center.
When I suggested our convention center consider moving to the stadium area, I didn't receive the same reception. LOL. If great big LA thinks it's a good idea, maybe we should reconsider and take note.
It wouldn't be a terrible idea if there were plenty to do in the stadium district and a transit connection to link up the other DT hotels. Extend the skyway to the Duvault (via arena) and work with a private developer to build a convention center hotel that is easily expanded and... viola! You would still have to wait for the remaining development (ie. sports bars, clubs, restraunts, retail, residential) to follow but that would still be better than what exists at the Prime.
+1
LA will be home to the Chargers or Raiders. Book it.
When we get a new convention center on the site of the old courthouse, look for the city to float something, maybe bonds, not the other, and run it down Bay street to the arena. Take down the overpass and limit access from downtown on Bay to the access to the Hart bridge from in front of the gator bowl offices. Use the old pilings to support the station and build a station in front of the boat docks, the land is already city space. Model it after the system in Indianapolis. Its a no brainer.
Maybe it's Toronto we should be looking over our shoulder for...
http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2011/05/05/toronto-councillor-on-nfl-they-cant-keep-ignoring-a-market-this-size/ (http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2011/05/05/toronto-councillor-on-nfl-they-cant-keep-ignoring-a-market-this-size/)
Quote“They have to take care of the problem in Los Angeles first,†said the candid Ford, who is the brother of Toronto mayor Rob Ford. “Two teams are kind of in play here: Jacksonville’s number one; New Orleans is the other. So there’s two teams. Once they take care of Los Angeles, we’re going to fly over to New York, set up a meeting with [NFL commissioner Roger] Goodell and give him our pitch.â€
Why? This is nothing.
Quote from: copperfiend on May 05, 2011, 11:27:16 AM
Why? This is nothing.
I was being facetious. Toronto is nowhere near ready to start making their pitch to the NFL. Besides after what they did to us with Justin Beibier I think they may be blackballed.
I read on another site that tailgating is illegal in Toronto too.
Anyone who thinks that Jacksonville and New Orleans are the two relocation candidates, while giving no thought to the Raiders, Chargers, Vikings, and Bills, is not to be taken seriously. I hope this Ford fellow understands that the NFL isn't putting a team in a 50,000-seat tin can.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on May 05, 2011, 11:49:02 AM
Anyone who thinks that Jacksonville and New Orleans are the two relocation candidates, while giving no thought to the Raiders, Chargers, Vikings, and Bills, is not to be taken seriously. I hope this Ford fellow understands that the NFL isn't putting a team in a 50,000-seat tin can.
Then also, owners have to be willing to sell or have other issues ( such as stadium issues, etc etc.) and wouldnt Toronto be considered a small market like buffalo is?
I read this earlier this morning and kept on going. No reason to give it another thought. The slant that I get from it is that Toronto and the NFL are applying a little pressure to Buffalo - no more, no less. They're having the same ticket sale issues that the rest of the teams are having. If you don't want to read about it anymore, you and 10 of your friends should all go get season tickets - the speculation will stop.
New Orleans?!? Is he high?
QuoteToronto eyeballs two teams for possible relocation
Posted by Mike Florio on May 5, 2011, 7:20 AM EDT
Toronto has gotten a taste of the NFL over the past few years, hosting at least one Bills game annually. And it has made the powers-that-be hungry for more.
Councillor Doug Ford, the brother of Toronto mayor Rob Ford (wait, I thought their last name was McKenzie), tells Brad Gagnon of TheScore.com that Canada’s mega-city intends to try to lure an NFL team after the league puts a team back in Los Angeles.
“They have to take care of the problem in Los Angeles first,†Ford said. “Two teams are kind of in play here: Jacksonville’s number one; New Orleans is the other. So there’s two teams. Once they take care of Los Angeles, we’re going to fly over to New York, set up a meeting with [NFL commissioner Roger] Goodell and give him our pitch.â€
As Gagnon points out, Goodell has said that Toronto would need a better venue than Rogers Centre. “Their current stadium is a multi-purpose stadium, has a relatively small capacity by NFL standards,†Goodell said at his pre-Super Bowl press conference in February. “And so I think there’s some issues that have to be addressed up there, but it’s a great market.†But Doug McKenzie Ford has explained that a new waterfront stadium could be built.
Apart from the borderline ridiculous notion that the Saints would be in play to relocate (then again, things were tenuous at best for the franchise’s future in New Orleans before Katrina), the fact that the Bills aren’t on the short list is surprising.
“If we had our own team,†Ford said, “we’d treat it like it’s our own and build up a fan base.â€
Of course, this implies that a full and complete move by the Bills, instead of a shared arrangement with Buffalo, would be welcomed. It’s safe to say, however, that the folks in Toronto don’t want to be perceived as politicking to pilfer the Bills from Buffalo. That said, the ultimate unspoken goal could be to pressure the Bills to protect their regionalized turf by moving to Toronto in order to keep another NFL team from moving in next door.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/05/toronto-eyeballs-two-teams-for-possible-relocation/
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 05, 2011, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on May 05, 2011, 11:49:02 AM
Anyone who thinks that Jacksonville and New Orleans are the two relocation candidates, while giving no thought to the Raiders, Chargers, Vikings, and Bills, is not to be taken seriously. I hope this Ford fellow understands that the NFL isn't putting a team in a 50,000-seat tin can.
Then also, owners have to be willing to sell or have other issues ( such as stadium issues, etc etc.) and wouldnt Toronto be considered a small market like buffalo is?
Toronto is actually a pretty decent market, size wise. They've had trouble though selling tickets to the 2 Bills games a year they've been hosting.
People keep mentioning Jacksonville as a team to steal?? lol wishful thinking
One thing about it, we may talk smack our about team, but at the end of the day we love them and just want them to do well. No one is "stealing" nothing away from Duval. :)
Quote from: Coolyfett on May 05, 2011, 12:51:00 PM
People keep mentioning Jacksonville as a team to steal?? lol wishful thinking
Yep. And before Mike Smith (ex-Jags coord) got Matt Ryan and transformed him into 'Matty Ice' the Falcons were embroiled in a Mike Vick Dogfighting Scandal, Bobby Petrino Quitting (also an ex-jags coord. - I guess you get our good with our bad) the team in Atlanta wasn't looking too fantastic either.
Well nobody's stealing anything if the lockout occurs.
As long as people continue to show after the recovery Jacksonville experienced last year, they should be safe. Despite the hard-on Tony Kornheiser seems to have for the Jags, I think the Chargers, Raiders and Rams are FAR more vulnerable than the Jags. And if anybody goes to Toronto, it will be the Bills.
The Rams seem to be in good footing with their new owners. The team I would add would be Minnesota.
I totally forgot about them. Take that for what it's worth. ::)
I wonder hows Tampa's ticket sales look after their year of the "Great Blackout". We probably wont hear mcuh about it because they are not Jacksonville.
The zombie thread continues...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820472c7/article/aeg-has-talked-with-more-than-five-teams-about-relocation?module=HP_headlines
Quote
AEG officials met with the Vikings last month in Minneapolis, while in town for business on the Timberwolves' Target Center, which the group also manages. The Vikings are working on a project to build a stadium in suburban Minneapolis, and the AEG source indicated the meeting centered on the club planning an L.A. Live-like complex around the new facility.
But with the Vikings' lease set to expire at the end of the 2011 season, and the caved-in roof currently under repair at the Metrodome, eyebrows were raised when the two sides were spotted together at a downtown Minneapolis hotel. That said, the NFL would badly like to keep the Vikings in the Twin Cities, a market with a disproportionate number of wealth and corporate headquarters for its middling size.
The Jaguars have long been viewed as a favorite to flee, since Jacksonville hasn't grown in the way the NFL once envisioned, but their lease -- which runs through 2030 -- will be difficult to get out of. The Rams' lease has an out in 2015, if the Edward Jones Dome isn't replaced or brought up to a state-of-the-art level. The idea of the Chargers and Raiders moving has validity, but the state of California might not be as cooperative if it's simply moving a business rather than adding one. The Raiders came out in response to being mentioned among the teams that have talked with AEG, with CEO Amy Trask saying the "team is not for sale."
Yes and as we can see, LA is not having the best of luck luring a team. There's no "slam dunk" yet. I wonder when they are just going to give up? The only teams that will possiably move are the ones with stadium issues. Nobody else is selling their team. All the teams they approached made it clear, " we are not for sale", including WW.
IMO, nothing will happen until the NFL can expand evenly across all of the divisions and adding another 8 teams will not likely happen in the next ten years.
Don't know what else tha man can do or say....I wish that they'd just remove the comment sections for the readers @ the TU website, however - how have we been so much more fortunate here?
Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver repeats that he has no interest in moving team to L.A.QuoteLos Angeles officials can apparently cross Jacksonville off the list of teams that might consider moving there as long as Wayne Weaver owns the Jaguars.
“I have no interest [in Los Angeles],†Weaver said Tuesday as he repeated a statement he made in the past.
A Los Angeles official listed Jacksonville last week as one of five teams it has talked to, but Weaver noted that Sports Business Daily didn’t even mention Jacksonville when it reported on teams interested in Los Angeles on Monday.
“That’s the real story,†Weaver said.
Weaver added, “I have been consistent in saying I am committed to Jacksonville and have no interest [in moving],†he said.
The Jaguars have often been mentioned in the past as a relocation candidate because of their problems selling tickets.
They avoided TV blackouts last season with the help of the Team Teal initiative, but sales have slowed this year, apparently because of the lockout.
“We have to work hard and be more creative because we’re in a small market in a difficult economy with high unemployment rates and a housing crisis that is more difficult than in other cities,†Weaver said.
The Jaguars added many incentives, including a booklet with $3,000 in goods and services that expires June 30 and the Jaguars advantage reward program.
“Macky [Weaver, the senior vice president, sales and marketing] and his staff have done a great job,†Wayne Weaver said.
vito.stellino@jacksonville.com,
http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2011-06-14/story/jaguars-owner-wayne-weaver-repeats-he-has-no-interest
Quote from: blizz01 on June 15, 2011, 01:51:03 PM
Don't know what else tha man can do or say....I wish that they'd just remove the comment sections for the readers @ the TU website, however - how have we been so much more fortunate here?
Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver repeats that he has no interest in moving team to L.A.
QuoteLos Angeles officials can apparently cross Jacksonville off the list of teams that might consider moving there as long as Wayne Weaver owns the Jaguars.
“I have no interest [in Los Angeles],†Weaver said Tuesday as he repeated a statement he made in the past.
A Los Angeles official listed Jacksonville last week as one of five teams it has talked to, but Weaver noted that Sports Business Daily didn’t even mention Jacksonville when it reported on teams interested in Los Angeles on Monday.
“That’s the real story,†Weaver said.
Weaver added, “I have been consistent in saying I am committed to Jacksonville and have no interest [in moving],†he said.
The Jaguars have often been mentioned in the past as a relocation candidate because of their problems selling tickets.
They avoided TV blackouts last season with the help of the Team Teal initiative, but sales have slowed this year, apparently because of the lockout.
“We have to work hard and be more creative because we’re in a small market in a difficult economy with high unemployment rates and a housing crisis that is more difficult than in other cities,†Weaver said.
The Jaguars added many incentives, including a booklet with $3,000 in goods and services that expires June 30 and the Jaguars advantage reward program.
“Macky [Weaver, the senior vice president, sales and marketing] and his staff have done a great job,†Wayne Weaver said.
vito.stellino@jacksonville.com,
http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2011-06-14/story/jaguars-owner-wayne-weaver-repeats-he-has-no-interest
Good Job Mr. Weaver! May the rumors be put to rest. R.I.P. Los Angelos
It's about time those guys were told to shut up by Weaver. Unfortunately just repeating the "often mentioned" rumor about Jacksonville being a relocation candidate is easier for sports pundits than doing their homework. The team has a lease that lasts another 18 years and won't be easy to get out of, and an owner who has repeatedly stated he won't move, and who isn't going to sell for a while anyway.
Well atleast we were no given the worse franchise in Pro Sports title as the Bengels are. Were getting cut some slack somewhere. LMAO
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/290391-the-worst-franchise-in-pro-sports?xid=cnnbin&hpt=us_bn9
Jones-Drew would love to see the NFL return to Los Angeles -
Not necessarily the Jags, howeverQuoteEven Maurice Jones-Drew is in agreement -- the name Los Angeles Rams just sounds better. This of course, makes him one of the smartest men in the world. Move over Stephen Hawking, our world's brightest mind is Jones-Drew.
To be clear, Jones-Drew wasn't endorsing the Rams' return to Los Angeles during his visit to NFL Network on Monday, but he did say that if a team comes to Los Angeles, the name has to sing.
Jones-Drew said that the team could have any name really, even the L.A. Pooper Scoopers, just as long as it has the name Los Angeles.
Of course, it should be noted that the Los Angeles Pooper Scoopers -- then known as the Raiders -- already played in Los Angeles. But I digress.
Jones-Drew is in your proverbial catch-22 when talking about the NFL's potential return to Los Angeles. The former UCLA standout would love to see the NFL return to his hometown. The only problem, he plays for one of the franchises often rumored to be on the move, the Jacksonville Jaguars.Not that it weighs on his mind or anything.
"You really don't pay attention to it at all," Jones-Drew said. "For me it's win, win. I love Jacksonville. It's a great place for me to raise a family. I have three kids now. I'm married, I play golf. There is golf everywhere."To come back home to play in front of my family, so they don't have to travel 2,000 miles to see me play, that is something I would love as well."
You can see the dilemma. That is akin to having only one credit in the jukebox and trying to figure out which Lynyrd Skynyrd tune to play. (For the record, Jones-Drew sided with Skynyrd in our long-running argument on the "Dave Dameshek Football Program.")
Not only is Jones-Drew's current team one of those considered a candidate for relocation to L.A., the team he grew up rooting for -- the Raiders -- are also a a possibility. But he doesn't see that working out.
The region already had its chance with the Raiders once and blew it, he said.
"The Raiders have always been Oakland," Jones-Drew said. "They tried L.A. and it didn't work out. No disrespect to L.A. but Oakland Raiders just sounds better. I like the L.A. Rams. Oakland Raiders sounds better."
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Yes, it does sound better. But again, this wasn't an endorsement.
Jones-Drew did say that Los Angeles would be best suited for having two teams, that way the fans can glom on to the team that is actually winning. Similar to when UCLA and USC took turns being the dominant team in L.A. Although, he might want to pump the brakes a little bit. We've only had two professional football teams since 1995 (the AFL's Avengers and the XFL champion Xtreme), so let's not get greedy.
But Jones-Drew does agree that the time has come for an L.A. team.
"Everybody wants to come to L.A.," Jones-Drew said. "Whoever the face of the franchise is, he is going to have a lot of responsibility."
Especially if he is the head of the L.A. Pooper Scoopers.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82069c38/article/jonesdrew-would-love-to-see-the-nfl-return-to-los-angeles
I was gonna mention that story, blizz. MJD likes to be on the edge of controversy...
Looks like there's trouble in L.A. You lose two football teams and now the dodgers are in a mess? Sounds like s sports city to me. LOL
http://jacksonville.com/sports/baseball/2011-06-27/story/los-angeles-dodgers-file-chapter-11-bankruptcy-protection
The Dodgers are a mess because of a terrible owner. It has nothing to do with the fans in LA. They usually turn out in droves for the Dodgers.
I know I've heard it somewhere, but I'm thinking Mark Cuban to the Dodgers would equal Awesome.
Now if only the Marlins could get a new owner that didn't mind hanging on to talented players not name Hanley.....
The Marlins are moving into their new ballpark next year. That will give them some extra revenue to keep their own talent and maybe even sign some free agents.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 28, 2011, 12:52:44 PM
I know I've heard it somewhere, but I'm thinking Mark Cuban to the Dodgers would equal Awesome.
Now if only the Marlins could get a new owner that didn't mind hanging on to talented players not name Hanley.....
didn't cuban already try to buy the cubs and was denied by mlb?
Quote from: copperfiend on June 28, 2011, 12:10:58 PM
The Dodgers are a mess because of a terrible owner. It has nothing to do with the fans in LA. They usually turn out in droves for the Dodgers.
Absolutely. The whole mess with the Dodgers has nothing to do with poor fan support for the team. It's all ownership, and it's really sad considering the rich history of that team in Los Angeles. It's much more like the situation the Hornets faced before leaving Charlotte ten years ago.
Quote from: copperfiend on June 28, 2011, 01:58:34 PM
The Marlins are moving into their new ballpark next year. That will give them some extra revenue to keep their own talent and maybe even sign some free agents.
I would like to be optimistic, but I don't see a new stadium drawing and extra 35k to the ballgrounds on any given night. Their attendence is horrible and I have no clue how the city of Miami was shammed into plunking down the millions of dollars for that stadium.
That being said, Loria would get more respect from the fans if he didn't dump a player as soon as his rookie contract comes up. Win a World Series, firesale. Coach of the Year - fired. One of the best hitters and pitchers in the league in '07 - '08 - Willis and Cabrera - dealt for 5 or 6 rookies. (Granted that was the end of Dontrelle, but I digress) Uggla blasts 35+ homers for 4 years in a row - dealt w/ time remaining on his contract.
The only time that I get to enjoy watching the Marlins at their best is here in town - before they're set to get paid.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on June 28, 2011, 02:04:23 PM
didn't cuban already try to buy the cubs and was denied by mlb?
If the team goes through bankruptcy and is put up for auction, just like the Texas Rangers were, MLB does not get the same say in who can buy it. The judge presiding over the bankruptcy is there to ensure the creditors get the best deal, and really doesn't care who baseball does or does not want in it's ownership circle.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 28, 2011, 03:03:46 PM
I would like to be optimistic, but I don't see a new stadium drawing and extra 35k to the ballgrounds on any given night. Their attendence is horrible and I have no clue how the city of Miami was shammed into plunking down the millions of dollars for that stadium.
I think that was a big part of why their Mayor was ousted in the recall election earlier this year.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 28, 2011, 03:03:46 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on June 28, 2011, 01:58:34 PM
The Marlins are moving into their new ballpark next year. That will give them some extra revenue to keep their own talent and maybe even sign some free agents.
I would like to be optimistic, but I don't see a new stadium drawing and extra 35k to the ballgrounds on any given night. Their attendence is horrible and I have no clue how the city of Miami was shammed into plunking down the millions of dollars for that stadium.
Though I think the Marlins are bound to increase attendance with a new ballpark, it's hard to be too optimistic when a Miami Heat team with Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh can't even draw full houses in an 18,000 seat arena. A terrible sports town, though with Miami's weather and plethora of entertainment options, it's not terribly surprising either.
Lord I did I resurrect this thread LOL
not really, this thread has taken many turns but seems to be the much needed sports outlet for Metrojax.
We've long since stopped bashing the jags and have made the run to other teams, and now it seems that Miami bashing is in order. I'm all for it.
Quote from: KenFSU on June 28, 2011, 03:44:14 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 28, 2011, 03:03:46 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on June 28, 2011, 01:58:34 PM
The Marlins are moving into their new ballpark next year. That will give them some extra revenue to keep their own talent and maybe even sign some free agents.
I would like to be optimistic, but I don't see a new stadium drawing and extra 35k to the ballgrounds on any given night. Their attendence is horrible and I have no clue how the city of Miami was shammed into plunking down the millions of dollars for that stadium.
Though I think the Marlins are bound to increase attendance with a new ballpark, it's hard to be too optimistic when a Miami Heat team with Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh can't even draw full houses in an 18,000 seat arena. A terrible sports town, though with Miami's weather and plethora of entertainment options, it's not terribly surprising either.
Yes i think theres a point to a new ballpark. I went to the Mets new Citibank field and rooted the most for Mr Met!The park was great, i see no reason why the Marlin park wont be state of the art.
I guess the biggest difference was the Mets never had a problem filling Shea Stadium, they actually had a waiting list for season tickets. The Marlins fill Land Shark Stadium at about 20% capacity on most nights.
Is a bigger, better park going to attract that many more people?
I think if Loria would keep his ballers and try to contend for a World Series (kinda like they won in '97 when they had the best team that money could buy)...... That's what fills a stadium. I don't see our local AA club having any attendance problems.....
From profootballtalk.com: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/26/l-a-moves-closer-to-downtown-stadium-nfl-teams/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/26/l-a-moves-closer-to-downtown-stadium-nfl-teams/)
QuoteL.A. moves closer to downtown stadium, NFL team(s)
Posted by Mike Florio on July 26, 2011, 11:16 AM EDT
The folks at AEG wanted to reach a so-called “Memorandum of Understanding†with the Los Angeles City Council by July 31.
They got it done with five days to spare.
Per the Los Angeles Times, an agreement on a document that keeps the downtown stadium project on track for 2016 has been reached.
“[A]pproval of this MOU will represent a critical milestone in our efforts to break ground on this project within the next year,†AEG said in a statement. “We look forward to continuing to work with the City to take this project to the next step at the same time that we also increase our focus on other key objectives, including progressing design of the project and securing the commitments necessary to bring the NFL back to Los Angeles.â€
Potential candidates for a move to L.A. include the Chargers, Bills, Vikings, and Rams. The Raiders and 49ers also could be in play, based on the manner in which stadium efforts unfold in the Bay Area. The Jaguars also could be in the mix, despite consistent denials from owner Wayne Weaver of any interest in moving the team or selling it.
The Vikings could move to Los Angeles â€" or anywhere else â€" after the 2011 season. It’s the last year of their Metrodome lease.
It is believed that, eventually, two teams could land in L.A.
LOL they are too amazing. Two teams???? Yeah ok! And you see how they still tried to SQUEEZE our name in there.??? They thing is, WW is not willing to sell. However, they feel if they keep pressuring him, that he will give. And thats why they keep bringing our name up. I tell them to take their stadium and shove it!
Thanks UL ::)
We were trying to turn this around into a baseball thread. Sheesh. ;D
AEG is like an annoying telemarketer or sales person that will not go away. No matter how much you say NO. LOL but honestly buffalo is their best bet. Their owner is like 900 years old and their market is shrinking year over year. However, I think they need to leave everyone alone and wait until the NFL does another expansion.
We have every reason to be worried about this. The NFL's top priority is getting football back in LA. It hardly matters to us if this LA project doesn't work in the long run; if we lose the Jags, we'll never, ever get another NFL team, or any other big league team.
The mayor needs to drop his NBA pipe dream and focus on the Jaguars immediately. He needs to decide right now exactly how much of a priority keeping the Jaguars is, and act accordingly.
Quote from: Tacachale on July 26, 2011, 03:02:33 PM
We have every reason to be worried about this. The NFL's top priority is getting football back in LA. It hardly matters to us if this LA project doesn't work in the long run; if we lose the Jags, we'll never, ever get another NFL team, or any other big league team.
The mayor needs to drop his NBA pipe dream and focus on the Jaguars immediately. He needs to decide right now exactly how much of a priority keeping the Jaguars is, and act accordingly.
My point.... F@#k the media. They Media will talk as long as they feel. Even if something is not a story, they will make it into one. I dont buy into to the garbage. We have work to. Lets just support our team and stop worrying about what others have to say. If WW says were not moving, were not moving. Were locked into a contract until 2030. And we currently dont meet any other requirements to activate the move clause. That being said, Im not worried. The only way this teams leaves anytime soon is if WW sells. Point blank period. And I am sure Brown will be behind the Jaguars 100%. Selling tickets is important, and will always be important because we are a small market. We will ALWAYS have to prove we deserve a team, even if LA was not in the picutre (Whew) ok Im done :)
Mayor Brown is already stumping for Jaguars ticket sales, as of yesterday. There's only so much he can do since, y'know, he kind of has an entire city to drag out of the ditch.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 26, 2011, 03:35:56 PM
If WW says were not moving, were not moving. Were locked into a contract until 2030. And we currently dont meet any other requirements to activate the move clause. That being said, Im not worried. The only way this teams leaves anytime soon is if WW sells. Point blank period.
This is a long thread, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already or not, but Weaver is mortal. I mean, he won't live forever. And, unless it's been mentioned before, there is no heir to the team. Yes he loves the city, yes his legacy is tied to the Jacksonville Jaguars, yes they won't move while he owns them.
Until we prove we deserve a team, we'll always have to prove we deserve the team. Sellouts, consistent, in good times and bad. That's it. The power is with us.
Quote from: Bridges on July 26, 2011, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 26, 2011, 03:35:56 PM
If WW says were not moving, were not moving. Were locked into a contract until 2030. And we currently dont meet any other requirements to activate the move clause. That being said, Im not worried. The only way this teams leaves anytime soon is if WW sells. Point blank period.
This is a long thread, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already or not, but Weaver is mortal. I mean, he won't live forever. And, unless it's been mentioned before, there is no heir to the team. Yes he loves the city, yes his legacy is tied to the Jacksonville Jaguars, yes they won't move while he owns them.
Until we prove we deserve a team, we'll always have to prove we deserve the team. Sellouts, consistent, in good times and bad. That's it. The power is with us.
+100. Hey I wonder if Tony Boseli would consider being the heir, how cool would that be :)
We shouldn't underestimate the threat we're facing. We can't be complacent if we really want to be a viable NFL market. We have to turn it around if we want to keep this team.
And there's plenty the mayor can and should do beyond just encouraging people to buy tickets. Yes, he does have a city to run, but this is a huge deal. I hardly think he wants to be remembered as the mayor at the time we lost the Jaguars.
Who's complacent? For the most part in this thread, we're the choir.
We can't worry about what AEG does. We can only worry over and control what we do as individuals.
The Mayor has said repeatedly he backs the team and that the Jags belong in Jacksonville. He has publicly and privately offered his support, and I'm sure we'll hear more cheerleading as the weeks roll on. Not sure what more he can do, since the Jaguars (for the moment) have all the commitment they need from the city financially.
The lockout ended yesterday. Even the team has been loathe to make a hard push for tickets until yesterday because the lockout was such a touchy subject.
Even so, they're hitting the ground running, filmed TV spots today, and have print/billboard ads ready to go as well. Touchdown Jax/Team Teal are ramping up this week.
I know 3 people who are in the Champions Club who've been selling tickets like hotcakes over the last 2 days.
Trust me, we're going to hear about tickets and supporting the team from every direction between now and the start of the season.
Case in point -
Weavers announce $100,000 marathon challenge
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/401820/mark-woods/2011-07-26/weavers-announce-100000-marathon-challenge
^The comments about not being worried, how the LA plan won't work, etc. are what I was referring to regarding compla
Quote from: ac on July 26, 2011, 04:50:49 PM
Who's complacent? For the most part in this thread, we're the choir.
We can't worry about what AEG does. We can only worry over and control what we do as individuals.
The Mayor has said repeatedly he backs the team and that the Jags belong in Jacksonville. He has publicly and privately offered his support, and I'm sure we'll hear more cheerleading as the weeks roll on. Not sure what more he can do, since the Jaguars (for the moment) have all the commitment they need from the city financially.
The lockout ended yesterday. Even the team has been loathe to make a hard push for tickets until yesterday because the lockout was such a touchy subject.
Even so, they're hitting the ground running, filmed TV spots today, and have print/billboard ads ready to go as well. Touchdown Jax/Team Teal are ramping up this week.
I know 3 people who are in the Champions Club who've been selling tickets like hotcakes over the last 2 days.
Trust me, we're going to hear about tickets and supporting the team from every direction between now and the start of the season.
The comments about not being worried, how the LA deal is overblown, etc., are what I was referring to regarding complacency.
As for the mayor, there's plenty else he can do. He can make a case to the NFL about reviewing their blackout policy, for at least this season. The city could buy tickets to distribute to staff, the way it used to before Peyton ended the practice. Even buying a small number of tickets would send the right message to corporations who also do this. And of course he can resolve the stadium improvement issues and rental fees for the stadium.
Quote from: Tacachale on July 26, 2011, 06:07:31 PM
^The comments about not being worried, how the LA plan won't work, etc. are what I was referring to regarding complaQuote from: ac on July 26, 2011, 04:50:49 PM
Who's complacent? For the most part in this thread, we're the choir.
We can't worry about what AEG does. We can only worry over and control what we do as individuals.
The Mayor has said repeatedly he backs the team and that the Jags belong in Jacksonville. He has publicly and privately offered his support, and I'm sure we'll hear more cheerleading as the weeks roll on. Not sure what more he can do, since the Jaguars (for the moment) have all the commitment they need from the city financially.
The lockout ended yesterday. Even the team has been loathe to make a hard push for tickets until yesterday because the lockout was such a touchy subject.
Even so, they're hitting the ground running, filmed TV spots today, and have print/billboard ads ready to go as well. Touchdown Jax/Team Teal are ramping up this week.
I know 3 people who are in the Champions Club who've been selling tickets like hotcakes over the last 2 days.
Trust me, we're going to hear about tickets and supporting the team from every direction between now and the start of the season.
The comments about not being worried, how the LA deal is overblown, etc., are what I was referring to regarding complacency.
As for the mayor, there's plenty else he can do. He can make a case to the NFL about reviewing their blackout policy, for at least this season. The city could buy tickets to distribute to staff, the way it used to before Peyton ended the practice. Even buying a small number of tickets would send the right message to corporations who also do this. And of course he can resolve the stadium improvement issues and rental fees for the stadium.
The city buying tickets right now would NOT send the right message to Jacksonville. Unfortantely, we can barely afford to run the city let alone buy some tickets. Im sure when we get in the position where we have a surplus in our budget, that would be fesiable. The most I see him doing is maybe buying some out of his own pocket. And Everyone has been making their case to the NFL about the blackout policy. And theyve made it clear they are not changing it.
Maybe they should deduct the season ticket costs out of their paycheck along with their pension payments. It would only be about $15 every pay period and they would never know. They could be led to believe that season tickets are a perk for working for the city.
Then they would be more likely to pay for an additional ticket or two out of pocket for their family.
Are you reading this marketing department - you need lobbyists banging down the city pension people's door.
BTW, since I just generated several thousand, locked-in season tickets a year, ended the blackout worries and taken us completely out of the LA discussion - can you go ahead and comp the two that I'm already paying for?
Sincerely, NRW ;D
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on July 26, 2011, 07:38:56 PM
Maybe they should deduct the season ticket costs out of their paycheck along with their pension payments. It would only be about $15 every pay period and they would never know. They could be led to believe that season tickets are a perk for working for the city.
Then they would be more likely to pay for an additional ticket or two out of pocket for their family.
Are you reading this marketing department - you need lobbyists banging down the city pension people's door.
BTW, since I just generated several thousand, locked-in season tickets a year, ended the blackout worries and taken us completely out of the LA discussion - can you go ahead and comp the two that I'm already paying for?
Sincerely, NRW ;D
Heyyy your in the wrong business westsider. I like that idea LOL
Quote from: Tacachale on July 26, 2011, 06:07:31 PM
The comments about not being worried, how the LA deal is overblown, etc., are what I was referring to regarding complacency.
Oh, the LA thing is very real. Some town is going to lose it's team, possibly two. However, aside from attendance there are other teams with much more pressing issues re: facilities. As one example, the Vikings lease is up after this season and they want a new venue. Same with the Chargers. The Raiders and 9ers are making noise and there's no set plan for a Bay Area or Silicon Valley stadium just yet. Additionally, the Rams are very publicly up for sale.
We shouldn't rest easy, but all we can do is mind and take care of our own business. If/when we dodge the LA bullet, it'll then be London, Orlando, San Antonio, or one of the cities who just lost their team.
QuoteAs for the mayor, there's plenty else he can do. He can make a case to the NFL about reviewing their blackout policy, for at least this season. The city could buy tickets to distribute to staff, the way it used to before Peyton ended the practice. Even buying a small number of tickets would send the right message to corporations who also do this.
The league already is allowing teams some wiggle room concerning blackouts. I don't think we'll ever see the blackout rule completely removed.
As far as the city buying up seats, I disagree. The city should not be in the business of buying those tickets. It sends the wrong message when hard economic choices have just had to be made.
Additionally, the city released those seats to the Jaguars for resale earlier this year. Previously, the lease required those tickets to be held for the COJ and they went unsold and unused the last 2 seasons.
The Mayor should, however, continue to engage the corporate community to step up as they did last year. Many other teams have strong corporate support keeping them afloat.
QuoteAnd of course he can resolve the stadium improvement issues and rental fees for the stadium.
Wasn't that part of the motivation behind letting the team keep the entirety of the EverBank Field naming rights revenue?
Again, it's been barely 1.5 days since the lockout was lifted. Give it time.
You're definitely right about the other threats we're going to face even if we dodge LA.
As for the city buying tickets to distribute to employees as a perk, this would send exactly the right message. Many companies already do it, UNF does it; it's a great perk and it shows your company is a good local citizen. The city used to purchase a block of tickets beyond the 25 or so that were set aside in the lease deal; Peyton and the council ended the practice as a way of saving a couple thousand bucks. THAT sends the wrong message.
I'm not saying COJ should buy 17 thousand tickets, but buying a small number of tickets themselves would show they're serious when they ask other companies to do the same thing. Of course it's an extra cost in tough times, but it's nothing compared to what losing the team would do to the city.
And the stadium and facilities improvements were a separate issue from the Everbank naming rights deal, and they still need to be resolved.
Mike Bianchi: Forget Jaguars, maybe Buccaneers should move to L.A.QuoteJust a few days ago, as the babbling blowhards on a national radio show just began debating the topic du jour â€" which current NFL team would be moved to the West Coast now that L.A. has approved the framework for an NFL venue â€" the discussion reached a quick and unusually peaceful culmination.
I'm paraphrasing, but here essentially is how the conversation went:
"The Jacksonville Jaguars are probably already packing the moving vans for L.A.," one of the talking heads concluded.
"No question," said the other. "It's a no-brainer."
Question: When are those of us in the media going to lay off poor, little Jacksonville and the only big-time professional sports team that city will ever have? Why everyone does seemed determined to yank the Jags away from Jacksonville when there's another NFL team in the state with an even more embarrassing recent history of blackouts?
What about the L.A. Buccaneers?
When there is a discussion about moving a team to L.A., why aren't the Tampa Bay Bucs ever brought up? They are located in an area that is rapidly gaining a reputation as one of the worst sports cities in America.
The Tampa-St. Petersburg megalopolis is the 14th-biggest market in the country, but does not support two of the most solid franchises in professional sports. The Tampa Bay Rays have proven over the last few years that they are one of the most well-run franchises in Major League Baseball yet the fan base continues to be among the sport's worst.
The fan apathy toward the Bucs is even more baffling because Tampa has always fancied itself as a football town. But I would argue Jacksonville is much more passionate about its perennially mediocre Jags than the Bucs are about one of the hottest young teams in the NFL.
Here's all you need to know about how far the Bucs' popularity has fallen not only in Tampa but throughout Central Florida: As I am writing this column, the Bucs do not even have a radio outlet to broadcast their games in the Orlando market. Radio stations in Orlando used to fight over the Bucs, but now the team has gone through much of the preseason without its games being broadcast in this thriving market.
If you want to accurately compare the Bucs to the Jags then chew on this: The Bucs, who were one of the surprise teams in the league last year with a 10-6 record, were the only franchise in the NFL that blacked out every game. Meanwhile, the Jags, a team the media likes to point to as the dirty-faced posterchild for fan apathy, blacked out none of its games despite being in the nation's 49th-ranked TV market.
The Jags averaged 63,000 fans per game last season; the Bucs had the second-worst attendance in the league at only 49,000 per game. But because there's nothing sexy about Jacksonville â€" the team or the city â€" the Jaguars are an easy target.
The media-bashing started a few years ago when the Jags were forced to cover up seats at their stadium in an attempt to avoid blackouts. Everyone ignored the reason for the tarps â€" because Jacksonville was the smallest market in the league with one of the biggest stadiums (73,000). And the reason it had one of the biggest stadiums was so the city could accommodate the annual Florida-Georgia college football extravaganza.
Another fact everyone ignored: Even with the tarps covering seats, capacity dropped to 67,000 â€" which is still bigger than Raymond James Stadium (65,857) in Tampa.
"The media has a way of regurgitating the same old stuff without doing their homework," says Jaguars great and Jacksonville resident Tony Boselli, one of the key catalysts behind the Jags' successful season-ticket push last offseason. "When you really look at the facts and Jacksonville's entire body of work as an NFL city, it's been a good market."
The fact is, the Jags, Bucs and even the Dolphins have a lot of work to do this season to avoid blackouts. The rotten economy, coupled with the 136-day lockout during a time when fans and corporations traditionally re-up for season tickets, will likely have a devastating effect on attendance throughout the league.
Of course when the inevitable blackouts happen, the nation's media will automatically emasculate the poor, little Jacksonville Jaguars.
In reality, the L.A., er, Tampa Bay Buccaneers are the team everyone should be pointing fingers at.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-08-25/sports/os-bianch-nfl-blackouts-tampa-bay-08220110825_1_tampa-bay-bucs-nfl-venue-fans
"The Jags averaged 63,000 fans per game last season..."
I think the local media needs to be screaming that from the rooftops until this gets through to the national media. I don't see how you could make an argument of fan apathy and moving a team while knowing that figure.
IMO our local media is poision. When it something negative about the Jags, the report it then the article circulates around the web. When its something positive, they dont even mention it. For example, instead of highlighting how good our defense was against the Falcons, the headline read " Jags win: Garrad and Gabbert not impressive.". Am I the only one that see's something wrong with that picture?
UNF now has a "Student Section" at Everbank...
QuoteCome out on Thursday, August 25th, from 11am-4pm to purchase your tickets for any of the eight 2011-12 Jaguars regular season home games. Take this opportunity to come out and show your support for UNF SG and The Jacksonville Jaguars while meeting members of the ROAR and Jaxon-De-Ville, the team's mascot. UNF Student Government and The Jacksonville Jaguars have teamed up to create a UNF student section at all Jaguars home games. The seats are located in the 228 section at Everbank Field. Any current student with a valid Osprey1Card may purchase up to two (2) tickets for each game. Tickets are $20 each, cash and credit cards will be accepted. Please refer to the ticket rules and regulations on our homepage for more information.
We only have 2,200 tickets for the entire season! Get them while we still have every game available!
Brought to you by YOUR UNF Student Government
http://forum.jaguars.com/index.php?showtopic=696341
^I just commented in the other thread that they sold 1500 of those tickets yesterday alone. This was a smart move by the team.
I saw that. I hope the kids do some fun things with an entire section to themselves... huge banners, costumes. They could do some cool stuff...
Quote from: Tacachale on August 26, 2011, 11:19:43 AM
^I just commented in the other thread that they sold 1500 of those tickets yesterday alone. This was a smart move by the team.
I'm confused, did they essentially sell 1,500 tickets of the ominous 12k or whatever the number is to lift blackouts?
Quote from: downtownjag on August 26, 2011, 11:38:19 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 26, 2011, 11:19:43 AM
^I just commented in the other thread that they sold 1500 of those tickets yesterday alone. This was a smart move by the team.
I'm confused, did they essentially sell 1,500 tickets of the ominous 12k or whatever the number is to lift blackouts?
Sounds like it was 1500 throughout the season but I could be wrong.
^It's through the season. The student section is something like 250 seats each game; I understand that some games are already sold out. As successful as this has proven in the course of one day, I hope they expand the section in the future.
The new "Jungle"?
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 26, 2011, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: Bridges on July 26, 2011, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 26, 2011, 03:35:56 PM
If WW says were not moving, were not moving. Were locked into a contract until 2030. And we currently dont meet any other requirements to activate the move clause. That being said, Im not worried. The only way this teams leaves anytime soon is if WW sells. Point blank period.
This is a long thread, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already or not, but Weaver is mortal. I mean, he won't live forever. And, unless it's been mentioned before, there is no heir to the team. Yes he loves the city, yes his legacy is tied to the Jacksonville Jaguars, yes they won't move while he owns them.
Until we prove we deserve a team, we'll always have to prove we deserve the team. Sellouts, consistent, in good times and bad. That's it. The power is with us.
+100. Hey I wonder if Tony Boseli would consider being the heir, how cool would that be :)
That would be cool and I speculate it is in someone's plans. But he'd obviously have to be part of a team of investors.
Quote from: Bridges on July 26, 2011, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 26, 2011, 03:35:56 PM
If WW says were not moving, were not moving. Were locked into a contract until 2030. And we currently dont meet any other requirements to activate the move clause. That being said, Im not worried. The only way this teams leaves anytime soon is if WW sells. Point blank period.
This is a long thread, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already or not, but Weaver is mortal. I mean, he won't live forever. And, unless it's been mentioned before, there is no heir to the team. Yes he loves the city, yes his legacy is tied to the Jacksonville Jaguars, yes they won't move while he owns them.
Until we prove we deserve a team, we'll always have to prove we deserve the team. Sellouts, consistent, in good times and bad. That's it. The power is with us.
Even if there were an heir (such as Weaver's nephew Macky), they would have to pay potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in estate taxes.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 26, 2011, 12:50:05 PM
^It's through the season. The student section is something like 250 seats each game; I understand that some games are already sold out. As successful as this has proven in the course of one day, I hope they expand the section in the future.
Vic Ketchman implied last year that this is in the team's long-term plans. Apparently this was a successful strategy for the Steelers with Pittsburgh-area schools for some time.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 26, 2011, 10:48:46 AM
IMO our local media is poision. When it something negative about the Jags, the report it then the article circulates around the web. When its something positive, they dont even mention it. For example, instead of highlighting how good our defense was against the Falcons, the headline read " Jags win: Garrad and Gabbert not impressive.". Am I the only one that see's something wrong with that picture?
I'm not sure it would do any good if the local media were wonderfully supportive. The national media has had a bead on Jacksonville since the expansion process in 1993. After they were all embarrassed when Jacksonville actually got a team after all their ridicule, they held their fire until they were given the opportunity to start picking on the city again. It didn't happen in 1995-1999 since ticket sales were gangbusters and the team got good quickly. It didn't happen when the blackouts started in the early 2000s, possibly because many other teams had much more glaring problems, but the tarps and the Super Bowl punchlines then made anti-Jacksonville mania catch fire. Even in 2007, when the three blackouts were near-misses (games to which 62,000-64,000 seats were sold), the L.A. crap was already gearing up. Obviously 2009's debacle got loads of attention even though the Lions and Raiders had worse ticket sales, and 2010's revitalization was largely ignored, largely on spite.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on August 29, 2011, 11:41:33 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 26, 2011, 10:48:46 AM
IMO our local media is poision. When it something negative about the Jags, the report it then the article circulates around the web. When its something positive, they dont even mention it. For example, instead of highlighting how good our defense was against the Falcons, the headline read " Jags win: Garrad and Gabbert not impressive.". Am I the only one that see's something wrong with that picture?
I'm not sure it would do any good if the local media were wonderfully supportive. The national media has had a bead on Jacksonville since the expansion process in 1993. After they were all embarrassed when Jacksonville actually got a team after all their ridicule, they held their fire until they were given the opportunity to start picking on the city again. It didn't happen in 1995-1999 since ticket sales were gangbusters and the team got good quickly. It didn't happen when the blackouts started in the early 2000s, possibly because many other teams had much more glaring problems, but the tarps and the Super Bowl punchlines then made anti-Jacksonville mania catch fire. Even in 2007, when the three blackouts were near-misses (games to which 62,000-64,000 seats were sold), the L.A. crap was already gearing up. Obviously 2009's debacle got loads of attention even though the Lions and Raiders had worse ticket sales, and 2010's revitalization was largely ignored, largely on spite.
My point is, our local media produces stories that get circulated quickly. We already have enough bad press. No need for the local media to add on to it.
Do you think they are starting to come around a bit? I was astonished at the negativity I saw in the local press in 2009 re: blackouts, as well as some of the embrace of the "Tebow as savior of the franchise" concept. In 2010 it seemed the tone changed a lot, other than on pro-Gator strongholds like 1010XL, and Vito Stellino still seems a consistent pessimist. But I don't read the T-U et al often enough to consider myself qualified to conclude for sure that things are improving.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on August 29, 2011, 12:55:51 PM
Do you think they are starting to come around a bit? I was astonished at the negativity I saw in the local press in 2009 re: blackouts, as well as some of the embrace of the "Tebow as savior of the franchise" concept. In 2010 it seemed the tone changed a lot, other than on pro-Gator strongholds like 1010XL, and Vito Stellino still seems a consistent pessimist. But I don't read the T-U et al often enough to consider myself qualified to conclude for sure that things are improving.
I think it has turned around drastically acutally. Thats why I want the local media to tone it down. Our local media outlets have been the only talking about blackouts and pointing out all the negative with the team, and its only the PRESEASON. LOL
What's driving me nuts are the people who I know to be ticket holders, who should feel some personal stake in this, who are saying "Well, anyone watching THIS game wouldn't buy tickets!" every time something goes wrong in a preseason game. All they're doing is providing cover for the fairweather crowd.
I think most people who freak out about the preseason does not understand what the preseason really is. Its not for the starters of team to prove anything to anything, its time for the rookies to get some reps, and the undrafted rookies to complete for a spot on the roster. That's it. People, fans included, look too much into the preseason. It doesnt count for a reason. I have remained postive personally. The only bad I have really is that Garrad seems to be getting worse. The D-line is a killer when all the starts are in. (the ATL showed alot), and Blaine is firing it up finally.
You really need to put the duval teal kool-aide down if your not concern about what we've seen in the preseason. Going to be tough season for the Jag faithfuls. Not to mention the three primetime games. I really think we were giving those games to be embarrassed. Like we were last yr.
Well we made through the first primetime game and won. Neither offense did much so it wasn't much of an embarrassment. The other two, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
If saying something realistic and reasonable is "sipping teal Kool-Aid" then duvaldude is sipping Kool-Aid indeed. Keith, I never expect you to say anything halfway positive about the Jags, because you never do. Maybe you are sipping on some haterade moreso than anyone sipping on teal Kool-Aid. You're probably the type of fan that have us going 4-12 every year.
Quote from: I-10east on August 29, 2011, 11:04:53 PM
If saying something realistic and reasonable is "sipping teal Kool-Aid" then duvaldude is sipping Kool-Aid indeed. Keith, I never expect you to say anything halfway positive about the Jags, because you never do. Maybe you are sipping on some haterade moreso than anyone sipping on teal Kool-Aid. You're probably the type of fan that have us going 4-12 every year.
Why thank you I-10 East.. I am flattered :-* LOL But seriously there is no person, no sports expert than can predict what will happen with any team. That is what makes the NFL exciting. You never know what may happen. Im sure Saints fans had no clue that they would rise from the bottom to the top in one year and win the superbowl. And I checked their previous schedule, and they were MUCH worse than the Jags. They had even went 3-13 before. But now they are elite. the NFL is unpredictable and thats what I love about it.
^^^Well said.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/30395/bbao-growing-concern-for-vikings-owner
QuoteAs a team official noted "growing concern" from team ownership about the state's commitment to the franchise, Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton suggested he would support a voter referendum on the Minnesota Vikings stadium proposal. If Dayton follows through with that plan, the project would at least be further delayed and possibly threatened altogether.
It's important to add our traditional caveat that all stadium deals are complicated, and many evoke increasingly heated rhetoric. It's part of the game. But here is where the Vikings are now: Dayton said at the Minnesota State Fair that there are many unanswered questions about the team's $1.057 billion proposal for suburban Arden Hills and that he would be "supportive" of a Ramsey County referendum. "In a case like this, people should have their own voice," Dayton said. (Courtesy Minnesota Public Radio.)
Stadium supporters have often sought to circumvent referendums, believing it unlikely that that citizens will vote to increase their taxes no matter what the purpose. Indeed, Ramsey County Commissioner Tony Bennett said a referendum could be a deal-breaker for the project. It's worth noting that baseball's Target Field was approved without referendum in Hennepin County.
On the same day, Vikings vice president Lester Bagley had this to say about owner Zygi Wilf's attitude toward the stadium situation, via Judd Zulgad of 1500ESPN.com: "I am concerned. There is growing concern within our ownership, there is no doubt, about where this is headed and the fact that every year, we get to the end of the [legislative] session and there's a different reason why [it didn't get done]."
Again, much of what you just read, if you made it that far, is part of the process. But you can add the referendum issue to a series of hurdles that already exist, from a staunch anti-tax state legislature to the proposals of environmental studies that could delay the project. The Vikings' Metrodome lease expires Feb. 1, 2012.
Not to derail the thread but -- a billion dollar stadium?! Holy @#$!!! Even if the county is only paying half --!
Shouldn't really surprise you, should it?
Everyone in the NFL is now trying to keep up with the Jones' - literally.
There better get something done quick or they will be in LA. Aside from Minesota. Who else has stadium issues? Isnt it the Chargers, Raiders and 49's?
St Louis as well.
^^^Oh yeah forgot about the Rams. I will see this much, atleast WW and the city do what they can to make sure our stadium is up to part. In its 16 year history it has already been renovated/upgraded twice. Currrently he is trying to get the screens in the stadium upgraded from analog to digital, and wire the stadium for internet/wifi. An indoor pratice bubble is also going to be built for the team. Speaking of that, I noticed most team dont have a practice field at the stadiums.
When did they said they going to built an indoor practice bubble for the Jags?
guys worry about our own problems before worrying about other cities problems. The titans game is not looking good to be a sellout. Still don't get why peoples in this town won't support this team.
The most serious stadium issues are the Chargers and the Vikings. However, the Vikings are much better supported than the Chargers. The Raiders, 49ers, and Rams also have stadium issues, as do the Bills. The Saints also had stadium issues that have been resolved for the time being.
Basically, after this year, the Chargers are free to leave if they pay a (pretty steep) early termination fee. With no new stadium deal even on the table, they're in big trouble.
The Vikings' contract also ends after this season. They want a huge ridiculous stadium the locals are balking at, but both the ownership and the NFL would clearly prefer them to stay in Minneapolis. At any rate, they are much more likely to end up working a stadium deal than the Chargers.
The Bills' lease expires after 2012 but they too could leave after this season if they pay an early termination fee. There are no plans for a new stadium and the owner is 92, and they are starting to struggle with attendance. But of course Wilson is absolutely devoted to Buffalo.
The Raiders' lease expires after 2013, and there is basically no way Californians will foot the bill for a new Raiders stadium with public money. They're also struggling with attendance and have moved twice before. Their best hope for a new stadium in the Bay Area seems to be a shared one with the 49ers.
The 49ers lease expires after 2014; they just extended it from 2012. They need a new stadium that will be a difficult sell, but they are much better supported and in a much better position to get a stadium than the Raiders. They are very unlikely to move.
The Rams can also leave after 2014 if St. Louis doesn't provide improvements to the stadium. They have time to work on this, but anything could happen in two years.
As for the Saints, they got their improvements to the Superdome and renewed their lease through 2025. However, there are other ways to get out of contracts if you throw enough money around. That's also the problem we have with our otherwise strong lease.
The 49'ers play at Candelstick.. The stick is a dump... probably the worst of all the stadiums mentioned. The Niners are well supported but will likely move to the south bay... Santa Clara... just on the border with San Jose...
Quote
The 49ers need a new stadium. That much is clear.
But where will that stadium be? And who is going to pay for it? That remains unclear.
The team insists it can build a new home next to its current headquarters, in Santa Clara, opening in 2015. But they have raised only a little over $250 million to spend on a project that will come close to $1 billion to build, if not more...
(http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2011/08/03/ba-stadium04_PH_0503885589_part6.jpg)
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/27/SPV81KRMCC.DTL#ixzz1WWyeFXQ7
Quote from: Rynjny on August 30, 2011, 11:01:09 AM
guys worry about our own problems before worrying about other cities problems. The titans game is not looking good to be a sellout. Still don't get why peoples in this town won't support this team.
Are you supporting team?
Quote from: Rynjny on August 30, 2011, 10:57:09 AM
When did they said they going to built an indoor practice bubble for the Jags?
It was in the T-U about a few months ago. They wanted premission to close off one of those roads that cut throught the sports complex to build the bubble. The team is paying for it.
http://m.jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2011-06-18/story/new-mayor-alvin-brown-will-have-work-jaguars-stadium-issues
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 30, 2011, 02:19:29 PM
Quote from: Rynjny on August 30, 2011, 11:01:09 AM
guys worry about our own problems before worrying about other cities problems. The titans game is not looking good to be a sellout. Still don't get why peoples in this town won't support this team.
Are you supporting team?
Of course I'm supporting the team. I've purchase extra season ticket for donation. Did u do that?
Quote from: Rynjny on August 30, 2011, 02:42:17 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 30, 2011, 02:19:29 PM
Quote from: Rynjny on August 30, 2011, 11:01:09 AM
guys worry about our own problems before worrying about other cities problems. The titans game is not looking good to be a sellout. Still don't get why peoples in this town won't support this team.
Are you supporting team?
You better believe it! I was just making sure that you were supporter. LOL I have season tickets. I bought two single game tickets for the rams game and gave them to friends. And I just ordered an extra single game ticket for the Titans to give aways to someone. I wish I could buy more
Of course I'm supporting the team. I've purchase extra season ticket for donation. Did u do that?
Nice to see that we're both supporting the Jags, would hope there's more ppl that would do that.
Quote from: Rynjny on August 30, 2011, 02:51:19 PM
Nice to see that we're both supporting the Jags, would hope there's more ppl that would do that.
I am blessed to be able too. Last year I was not able to do this. I went to maybe three games last year because that is all I could afford. Things are better this year, So I am doing what I can now that Im able. the lock out messed everything up though. Even I had to scrap up money to buy my season tickets. The money I had set aside initalially for them had to go to bills. I could not hold on to 500.00 in hopes that the NFL would get their act together.
Man..an old dude on news4jax.com called me a clown, gook, slant eye for defending the jaguars and being asian..
Quote from: Rynjny on August 30, 2011, 09:19:01 PM
Man..an old dude on news4jax.com called me a clown, gook, slant eye for defending the jaguars and being asian..
you should go karate his ass ;D
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2011, 09:29:50 PM
Quote from: Rynjny on August 30, 2011, 09:19:01 PM
Man..an old dude on news4jax.com called me a clown, gook, slant eye for defending the jaguars and being asian..
you should go karate his ass ;D
Hey he said he's a veteran, man i got so much respect for veterans, but dude just cross the line..
It is someone posting on a local news or newspaper website, that's all that needs to be known.
The local newspaper/TV station comments sections are cess pools. At least channel 4 hides them by default.
Tisk Tisk Tisk. Looks like there are potential lawsuits flying around.
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/story/_/id/6900222/aeg-tim-leiweke-wants-legal-protection-los-angeles-stadium-plan
Here's another list that I'm glad the Jags didn't make - Even though the Bucs are popping up more and more, I don't wish the negative press on any of the Florida teams, really.
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ys-247wallstreet-pro_teams_losing_fans_091511
^Piling on the FL teams just shows that the sports press doesn't know or care what the economic reality is like in Florida right now. Numbers and assumptions are easier to put in print than actual research. But yes, I'm glad the Jags aren't on that list.
Quote from: blizz01 on September 16, 2011, 10:46:53 AM
Here's another list that I'm glad the Jags didn't make - Even though the Bucs are popping up more and more, I don't wish the negative press on any of the Florida teams, really.
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ys-247wallstreet-pro_teams_losing_fans_091511
Im glad they finally acknowledge it was never just a Jacksonville problem.
Ok. Now that Al Davis is dead, can't we assume that the Raiders, which are the obvious team to head back to LA, will finally pack up and return to their home? New ownership should have a new attitude. This could take a lot of pressure off our beloved Jags.
Quote from: ubben on October 08, 2011, 10:20:48 PM
Ok. Now that Al Davis is dead, can't we assume that the Raiders, which are the obvious team to head back to LA, will finally pack up and return to their home? New ownership should have a new attitude. This could take a lot of pressure off our beloved Jags.
So someone kills a few oak trees and you're all up-in-arms. An actual person dies and you're already trying to give his property away before his body turns cold.
Ubben. Stay in Avondale. Please don't cheer for the Jags. And I hope that one day you might understand the basic concepts of humanity and could please find it in your soul (if you have one) to put people ahead of plants and animals.
Al Davis, while not one of the more poplular owners of the NFL, still had conviction and priorities. They were all about running HIS business the way he wanted and that 'going vuhticaal' would win championships. May he rest in peace. And may he also kill one of the precious trees in your yard for your blasphemy towards a human being.
You're such a fucking hypocrite.
Al was also a champion for minorities within the NFL. He got a little batty in his later years, but I still love me some Al Davis.
FWIW, I don't think ubben intended any disrespect for him. He was simply being pragmatic. No need to mount the proverbial high horse.
Thanks buckethead. This is a thread about LA trying to steal the Jags and that is the issue my comment referred to. I stand by my comment.
Check this out: a list of likely relocation candidates that doesn't include Jacksonville. Someone finally got the message that there are (several) teams more in danger of moving than the Jags. About damn time.
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/nfl/post/_/id/240/nflla-four-corners
^^^ESPN LA's Arash Markazi (he's literally a rash) was the same idiot who said that the Jags makes the most sense to move to LA because of it's "small market size & lack of fan support". Never mind the other teams with more problematic ticket issues lately. That lightbulb in his dome finally clicked on that the Jags aren't going anywhere, whether he like it or not.
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
Go home immediately and tell your mother to give you a hug. Looks like you could use one. :)
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
WTF!!!You do know that Wayne Weaver is the freaking owner of the Jags, right? Why do you keep calling for someone to replace the owner? That's freaking asinine! That's like asking for Jerry to step down for the Cowboys. Keep dreaming buddy, because the owner as long as he's alive aint going anywhere! Now wanting a new coach for the Jags is a different story.
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
I can't think of many cities whose image would be helped by the Jaguars - maybe Camden NJ?
It's more the NFL that enhances a city's image than a particular team and it's success on the field. It's being mentioned in the national media and seen more often on TV.
We'd get more bang for the buck if we could get Florida to have a few home games here, in addition to the GA-FL game.
I was pretty sick yesterday and had to give away my ticket, but it looked like a pretty damn healthy crowd again yesterday, especially considering a) our slow start, and b) our opponent. I think I heard 61,000+. Nice work Jacksonville. We're definitely getting there.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 10, 2011, 08:58:34 AM
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
I can't think of many cities whose image would be helped by the Jaguars - maybe Camden NJ?
Pile on the Jags for losing if you must, but this is an organization filled with first-class people who are dedicated to the Jacksonville community and charitably inclined. I'm tired of the treatment of the Jags as a punch line within certain segments of Jacksonville.
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
Seeing as how the Jags have an all-time record of 134-125 during the regular season, your 'lose every week' statement is demonstrably false.
I pay to see a football team, every week, in my adopted hometown. Do you know how cool that is? I couldn't do that in any of the places I've lived previously - could you? I'm sorry you can't comprehend or appreciate that. Your loss.
Quote from: Doctor_K on October 10, 2011, 12:38:04 PM
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
Seeing as how the Jags have an all-time record of 134-125 during the regular season, your 'lose every week' statement is demonstrably false.
I pay to see a football team, every week, in my adopted hometown. Do you know how cool that is? I couldn't do that in any of the places I've lived previously - could you? I'm sorry you can't comprehend or appreciate that. Your loss.
+1000
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
Pathetic statement from a pathetic mind. Let me guess.... You can do it better?
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on October 10, 2011, 11:35:29 AM
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 10, 2011, 08:58:34 AM
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
I can't think of many cities whose image would be helped by the Jaguars - maybe Camden NJ?
Pile on the Jags for losing if you must, but this is an organization filled with first-class people who are dedicated to the Jacksonville community and charitably inclined. I'm tired of the treatment of the Jags as a punch line within certain segments of Jacksonville.
I agree Wacca. Their some cities who never had "winning teams" EVER. We have had our good years, and unfortunately we are seeing the bad now. Im also tired of the treatment as well. Its getting really old. Look at the Lions for example, their team has ALWAYS been the pits, and even with detriot losing population that have had the Lions back 100%.
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
You have no idea what that the presence of the NFL and this team has done for this city. If they left town, this city would be ripped inside out. Its not all about winning and losing on the field. The break their backs and pump millions and millions of dollars in this community. The Jags put this city on the map. Before we got a team nobody even knew where Jacksonville Fl was. They are ALL we have. I would not wish that fate on this city ever. So how about you leave!!
^^^ +1
This thread is full of win and awesomeness!!!! I love it. Everytime the jags lose this thread grows by 3 pages lol.
Quote from: deathstar on October 10, 2011, 02:50:17 AM
This team SUCKS. I for one don't give a DAMN if they were to leave or not. What person in their right mind plays to see a losing team, LOSE, every damn week? Do you pay for a half-assed dinner at Outback? Hell no.
Jack DeLOSERio and Wayne "We gotta..." Weaver, GET OUT, PLEASE.
Wait, people go to Outback for a decent dinner? That's news to me.
Outback Steakhouse, where the wealthy socialites go to wine & dine. LOL
So if your blooming onion doesn't meet your standard, you just don't pay for it? You sound like a pleasure to deal with.
Back to the original thread... I heard Sunday on one of the network broadcasts that the NFL actually wants two teams to move into the LA market. The thought is that LA can support two franchises. Not sure that's the case any more. Too many years without a team. Too much apathy in Hollywood. Then again, if USC continues to have a few more down years, then the NFL might be able to stoke that fire.
Perhaps calling for two teams is the NFLs way of nto having to decide which stadium deal they prefer. A "we'll take them both" situation is you will.
Concerning LA's "two franchises" you have to learn how to crawl before you can walk. They have enough issues just getting one franchise there never the less two. I think that it's insane for a questionable city that already lost three franchises to jump the gun like that, demanding two teams; Regardless of LA's impressive market size.
^They've been talking about two teams in LA for a long time now. The preference would be for them to share one stadium like the Giants and Jets do in Jersey. There have also been talks about the San Francisco and Oakland sharing the proposed new 49ers stadium in Santa Clara.
I seriously doubt that any more NFL teams (outside of NYG NYJ) will share any stadiums any time soon, if ever again in our lifetime. I also have heard dumb rumors about Chicago getting another team, which I don't believe. SF is definitely not down with sharing a stadium with OAK.
I heard they told Turk to kick himself to the curb, but when he did he only went 22 yards...
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on October 10, 2011, 11:35:29 AM
Pile on the Jags for losing if you must, but this is an organization filled with first-class people who are dedicated to the Jacksonville community and charitably inclined. I'm tired of the treatment of the Jags as a punch line within certain segments of Jacksonville.
Joking aside, this city cannot afford
any NFL team, much less this one.
Quote from: RockStar on October 10, 2011, 03:51:27 PM
I heard they told Turk to kick himself to the curb, but when he did he only went 22 yards...
Sweet!
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 10, 2011, 03:56:09 PM
Joking aside, this city cannot afford any NFL team, much less this one.
Well if that's the case, then there's quite a bit of NFL cities who cannot 'afford' their teams. I'm a lil' puzzled as to what you were getting at. ???
Quote from: I-10east on October 10, 2011, 03:49:45 PM
SF is definitely not down with sharing a stadium with OAK.
Actually, they are.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/19/MNN51KCC7J.DTL
It's been the Raiders who have been less interested (actually Al Davis appeared to have been okay with sharing, but he wanted the stadium in Oakland, not Santa Clara, where the 49ers are planning to move).
Quote from: I-10east on October 10, 2011, 04:11:30 PM
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 10, 2011, 03:56:09 PM
Joking aside, this city cannot afford any NFL team, much less this one.
Well if that's the case, then there's quite a bit of NFL cities who cannot 'afford' their teams. I'm a lil' puzzled as to what you were getting at. ???
Just some more defeatist nonsense, evidently.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 10, 2011, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: I-10east on October 10, 2011, 03:49:45 PM
SF is definitely not down with sharing a stadium with OAK.
Actually, they are.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/19/MNN51KCC7J.DTL
It's been the Raiders who have been less interested (actually Al Davis appeared to have been okay with sharing, but he wanted the stadium in Oakland, not Santa Clara, where the 49ers are planning to move).
According to this PFT article below, Mark Davis Al's son was more inclined to sharing a stadium with the Niners, but there are MANY obstacles ahead including city (OAK or Santa Clara) and the stadium's color scheme among others. SF doesn't seem too interested with sharing a stadium. BTW, Right on with the DD defeatist take.
www.profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/10/raiders-situation-shakes-up-stadium-shuffle/
Once again, if you want people in the seats, put a product on the field that is worth watching. Sunday was flat out embarrassing! Couldn't even beat a team that alway finds the banana peel.
So let it be written. So let it be done. Shahid Khan is one of the 4 horsemen of the move to LA apocalypse.
I'm inclined to believe that Los Angeles will score either the Chargers, or more likely the Raiders, long before any serious talk of a Jaguars move takes place again. Two teams in L.A. is a pipe dream that I can't imagine ever becoming a reality.
Also, LA is on the clock.
33 days left to find a team, or else this thread is A LIE.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 29, 2011, 01:42:02 PM
Also, LA is on the clock.
33 days left to find a team, or else this thread is A LIE.
Exactly! The last statment Goddell made about LA that he was not happy at all with the progress, nor was he did not favor niether of the stadium deals. The whole LA thing is almost a wrap ladies and gentlemen. Its time to lock this thread also.
I vote in favor to motion the locking of this thread.
-Josh
HATE THIS DAMN THREAD!!!!!
It's been 50 pages and well over two years.
Might as well see it through until December 31st at midnight, declare it a LIE, and then shut it down for factual inaccuracy :D
That said, until L.A. finds a team or every one of our games is a sellout, the story isn't dying.
Alot of teams are not selling out games are they moving also?
It's actually kind of funny to go back and read the original article.
The whole premise was based on the stadium being completed in 2011. They don't even have an approved design.
Much ado about nothing.
Time to shut this thing down.
Looks like most want it gone... consider it done!