"LET'S ROLL!"
(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/prints/pr09156.jpg)
The Florida State DOT has completed and submitted it's PRE-APPLICATION to the federal government for funding of the Jacksonville - Miami, Florida East Coast Route.
This is the line that crosses the river downtown, runs near Philips Highway to St. Augustine, and continues to hug the coastal areas all the way south. It hasn't had passenger service since 1968.
The Pre-Ap, has some interesting facts in it:
The request is for right-of-way (West Palm Beach), equipment, track improvements, signaling...everything.
The Florida East Coast is partnering with FDOT and AMTRAK to make this happen.
Track speed is estimated to be MAX. 90 mph.
The project includes TWO round trips per day.
Funding is sought for 8 new stations.
Parts of the formal application are done, others are not, much of it is just waiting to be updated from 2001 when this was tried under the BUSH "highway" administration.
They still plan to switch to the CSX in West Palm Beach, and tie into Tri-Rail connections, however our trains will go all the way into Miami.
JTA is on record with a supporting resolution, along with 66 others, mostly county and city governments. There are at least another 20 or so resolutions expected, (which are named) but the CITY OF JACKSONVILLE is MISSING as is DUVAL COUNTY... Hell we don't care, we just have the most to gain from this right?
The whole project is expected to be packaged and delivered to Washington, shortly.
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On another note there is a PRE-APPLICATION and a completed FORMAL APPLICATION for federal funding to purchase the 61 miles of the Central Florida Commuter Rail Corridor. This one is really juicy, in a typical FDOT is out of it's mind way.
Calls for every imaginable toy from Deland to Poinciana, then goes on to say it is part of the HIGH SPEED RAIL because people will travel on stage one (of the future Jacksonville - Orlando corridor) in regular Amtrak trains at 79 MPH, then get off in Orlando, where they will then take Light Rail to the Airport, then get off the Light Rail and transfer to the High Speed Line to Tampa. SAY WHAT? WTF?
So in a very weird sort of way, we are mentioned here and there throughout, but only as a sort of side note to the "real railroad". Funny thing is, they don't plan to connect their REAL RAILROAD (the HSR) to the rest of Florida's railroads. These folks obviously are suffering from Carbon Monoxide poisoning.
It doesn't mention the Orlando, or Tampa to Miami passengers in the Pre-Ap, one can only guess what those passengers are to do? Perhaps when they arrive in Orlando, change to Light Rail, change again to HSR finally getting to the bullet train, someone will push them out the door as it speeds down I-4 between every city both north and south. As it streaks over Highway 27, the survivors will be loaded on a greyhound for Miami? Great plan. OOPS guess I shouldn't joke about this, next thing you know... well... this is FLORIDA after all.
BUT HAVE NO FEAR - THIS SEAMLESS SYSTEM WILL STOP FOR MICKEY MOUSE!
OCKLAWAHA
Sounds too good to be true Ock! Oops.....hope that's not the kiss of death? Should be a real benefit to our world but the hell with the Mouse.....letem get their own line.....they can afford it!
Here is a link to the article we ran on this in July. You can read the pre-application for yourself:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-jacksonville-to-miami-passenger-rail-returning
Funding is sought for 8 new stations - Just pile on the debt spending....
There lies the problem......funding! No matter what system is used,pickup and departure points have to be added! There is plenty of rail out there and all of it travels into Jacksonville but nothing in the way of Stations exist. Rail was not considered a viable people moving conveyance but that preception appears to be changing. Urban area's were not and are not being planned to take that into account and once again.....lack of vision! One of these days someone might take that into account but I won't hold my breath!
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 30, 2009, 07:00:17 AM
Funding is sought for 8 new stations - Just pile on the debt spending....
So I take it you're against this?
I travel from Jax to Boca Raton and Miami several times a year and I would take a high speed train option over driving every single time.
Good. It's about time. Hope it comes to fruition and to operation.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 30, 2009, 07:00:17 AM
Funding is sought for 8 new stations - Just pile on the debt spending....
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 30, 2009, 08:03:26 AM
There lies the problem......funding! No matter what system is used,pickup and departure points have to be added! There is plenty of rail out there and all of it travels into Jacksonville but nothing in the way of Stations exist. Rail was not considered a viable people moving conveyance but that preception appears to be changing. Urban area's were not and are not being planned to take that into account and once again.....lack of vision! One of these days someone might take that into account but I won't hold my breath!
This is being calculated against adding lanes to I-95 from Jacksonville to Miami. The road is at capacity now, and is becoming dangerous. More often then not it apes I-4, and somewhere between the Gateway City and the Neon of South Beach, your likely to have to park for an hour or more. In my experience in Florida, there are 3 roads that rank as the worst I have ever driven, and all three of them are I-4! I-95 is moving up on my list of horrible roads pretty darn fast.
I believe the State is looking for around $70 million to finance what will be two daily trains each way. They plan to do this as an alternative to I-95 expansion, which frankly can't be done for less then BILLIONS due to right-of-way constraints. That $70 Million is about what we could dump into a SINGLE I-95 INTERCHANGE.
Once the stations are up, and the equipment ordered, all it will take to expand round trips will be locomotives and cars. We could buy at least 7, 5 car train sets for another $70 Million. I hope we follow California's lead in equipment and get serious about an "AMTRAK FLORIDA". QuoteAmtrak California Equipment
(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/1/5/5815.1052366220.jpg)
Many of the locomotives and cars used by Amtrak in California are common to the entire Amtrak system. They are found on Amtrak's "Basic System" trains: California Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Southwest Chief, and Sunset Limited.
But as Caltrans and Amtrak continued their expansion plans in the 1980's, it became clear that Amtrak would not be able to do so in California without outside help. The major transportation bonds of 1990 and 1991 provided funds for the California Department of Transportation to design and build equipment for California service.
Most of Amtrak California service is operated with this fleet. In order to meet continuing growth and demand for service, Caltrans has leased a number of reconditioned Superliner cars which have been painted in Amtrak California colors and operate with the original California Cars. In addition, one round trip on the Pacific Surfliner route operates with other Amtrak equipment.
(http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/paintschemes/6953A.jpg)
California Cars
Each of the 88 cars in the Amtrak California fleet is named for a prominent California physical feature. Cars in the 8000 series were the first order of equipment, which were delivered beginning in 1996. The second series of cars (beginning with number 6000), began delivery in 2001 and continued into 2002. The cars are of four types:
Dining Cars -- Cars containing a galley for food preparation downstairs and table seating for passengers upstairs.
Cafe Coach -- Cars with coach seats upstairs, and a snack bar downstairs.
Baggage Coaches -- Cars with seating for passengers and storage space for luggage and package express.
Coaches -- Cars with coach seating only
Cab Cars -- Two types: coaches or baggage coaches from which the train can be operated.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3205843672_1a391f6e1a.jpg)
Locomotive type
The locomotives commonly known as California Locomotives were built by General Motors Electro Motive Division (EMD) at the La Grange, Illinois and London, Ontario, Canada plants to specifications developed by the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans).
Their official designation is F59PHI , a streamlined and enhanced F59PH, a reliable and proven locomotive type. Maximum speed is 110 mph (177 km/h) from a single 3200 horsepower diesel electric power plant. Power for train lighting, heating and cooling does not come from this power plant, but from a separate plant generating 600 kilowatts of power.
Among the special features of this locomotive are a lightweight yet strong skin of composite materials and steel, fuel injection which results in low emissions (the cleanest burning diesel engines in America, some experts say) and reduced fuel consumption, and a cab isolated from the noise and jolting usually associated with locomotives.
The State of California Department of Transportation owns 15 of these locomotives, (and two General Electric Dash 8 locomotives purchased from Amtrak in 1994). Amtrak and several commuter agencies also have purchased F59PHI locomotives. You may see them in service in other parts of the state and the nation.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/34/102435335_92973ed56a.jpg)
mtraininjax, perhaps you and I could suggest a locomotive style and paint scheme for this new service?? hee hee!OCKLAWAHA
QuoteThis is being calculated against adding lanes to I-95 from Jacksonville to Miami. The road is at capacity now, and is becoming dangerous. More often then not it apes I-4, and somewhere between the Gateway City and the Neon of South Beach, your likely to have to park for an hour or more. In my experience in Florida, there are 3 roads that rank as the worst I have ever driven, and all three of them are I-4! I-95 is moving up on my list of horrible roads pretty darn fast.
Speaking of congested highways, I'd take I-4 during rush hour in Orlando over a congested I-95 in South Florida anyday.
As for the Amtrak/FEC project, Ock you're right. A $70 million investment in a rail line between Jacksonville and Miami is a drop in the bucket compared to just about any major highway project. The 46-mile Outer Beltway alone is roughly around $2.2 billion. As a fiscal conservative, I find it comical how people talk about how expensive rail is but have no problem investing billions more in highway construction.
new highways cost at least $10 million per mile....and that doesn't includce bridges and interchanges!
Gentlemen....I agree! Comparing cost for asphalt versus using rail that's already in place is a no brainer.....makes me wonder if Costco has an "Engine" cost plus deal or maybe we can strike a deal with the Canadians! Either way something needs to happen so I am glad that "Florida East Coast Trains are a coming"!
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 30, 2009, 08:45:12 PM
Gentlemen....I agree! Comparing cost for asphalt versus using rail that's already in place is a no brainer.....makes me wonder if Costco has an "Engine" cost plus deal or maybe we can strike a deal with the Canadians! Either way something needs to happen so I am glad that "Florida East Coast Trains are a coming"!
LOL! Costco geeze Louise
Actually, for the first time since the exit of Baldwin, Alco, Lima-Hamilton, and Fairbanks Morse, (leaving only EMD (GM), GE, and MLW - which was once Alco of Canada and went through names like a lizard with colors... Montreal - Studebaker - Worthington - MLW - Bombardier. Suddenly the market has changed and we have maybe from 5 - 10 old and new Locomotive builders in the market and each trying to find their own Niche. It should be a buyers market over the next few years and the new hybrids called "Gen-Sets" on the railroad are selling like hot cakes. Even tiny Brookville Locomotive Works, which for 100 years or so has built mine locomotives, and tiny 4 wheel dock switchers, suddenly is offering a full size line of Gen-Set road engines... Hey and they've got 100 years of experience to put into their product.
http://www.motivepower-wabtec.com/locomotives/commuter/mpxpress.php
http://www.getransportation.com/na/en/locomotives.html
http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/passen.jsp
http://brookvilleequipment.com/
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/automated-monorails?docID=0901260d8000a7e4
Just kidding STJR!
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/intercity-trains/multiple-units/am-96---belgium?docID=0901260d8000fc6c
That should be enough to give you an idea. If you, JTA, FDOT, etc... want a complete list I can work it up for you. Otherwise, this really does give one an idea of some of the cool new products that might be on the way to the Florida East Coast... But I still like that RED and Yellow paint!
Purple, Silver and Gold, was nice too! So was the deep forest green, cream and gold! and let's not forget the Green, Yellow and Orange of the old Citrus Scheme on the Seaboard!
JTA just for the record, and as an idea for the "S" line to the port, JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL used an
Orange and Blue scheme (God only knows where THAT came from!) Later engines were pretty solid Orange. OCKLAWAHA
If your talking about aircraft......got connections for that......Trains are something new for me. Color scheme and layout secondary to getting the silly thing in operation and making money! First one will be the key for sure to expansion.....enough riders and if it pays for itself then away we go!
(http://birminghamrails.com/images/image__1_-_acl_f_s_silver___purple___eylton_late__50s_jt.jpg)
The classic era of Jacksonville railroads
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 31, 2009, 06:38:39 AM
If your talking about aircraft......got connections for that......Trains are something new for me. Color scheme and layout secondary to getting the silly thing in operation and making money! First one will be the key for sure to expansion.....enough riders and if it pays for itself then away we go!
Like several of us have said on these forums, IT WILL NEVER PAY FOR ITSELF. At least not in dollars, however ANY income from rail is a better deal then the bottomless hole that we flush highway cash down.
As for the here and there remarks about colors and styles, sorry if I confused you. This is really just a bit of good natured fun that I'm tossing out for some grand old railroad buffs that read these pages. Memories of Jacksonville Terminal in it's hey days. OCKLAWAHA
Mass transit is always penalized for partially paying it's own way. If like roads and other services it was just a money pit with no returns people would not measure it based on monetary returns.
Properly run....rail atleast would be a break even proposition and with most of the rail system already in place a no brainer by my standards.....much cheaper than increasing roadways for sure! Ock I meant the "Costco" reference purely in jest......I did not know there were so many possible companies regarding engine and passenger car suppliers! Either way makes cents to me,we need to do it and soon!
Amtrak has already gone on record and stated that they could break even running s statewide corridor service, similar to what the do for California. Unfortunately, we're more interested in building a tourist train in the median of I-4, than getting something that would benefit residents statewide for a fraction of the costs.
Well ....if FDOT is involved you can just about bet it will be bloated and overbudget! Beginning to think that they should be excluded from any involvement regarding rail of anykind! Their domain is highway and they should stay out of the rail end!
I can virtualy guarantee that even the best run rail system would not "break even"....
For example, the DC Metro system, with high fares and even higher ridership, still doesn't even cover 60% of its costs through farebox revenues.....and guess what, in the wonderful city of Portland (you know the place that loves transit), their overall system recovers only about 25% of its costs through farebox revenues.
RIGHT TUFSU1. The national average numbers run like this, 75% of all Surface Passenger Transportation Cost is labor, and 25% of all income is farebox. These are the two biggest leaps for John Q Public, until they figure out that highways are ALL COST and NO RECOVERY.
Interesting because I was in the room with Lakelander when the Amtrak VP said they "Would break even" with 5 trains per route in Florida. That would equal 5 arrivals and 5 departures on every route?!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: thelakelander on September 01, 2009, 06:51:55 AM
Amtrak has already gone on record and stated that they could break even running s statewide corridor service, similar to what the do for California. Unfortunately, we're more interested in building a tourist train in the median of I-4, than getting something that would benefit residents statewide for a fraction of the costs.
thelakelander, please stop calling HSR from Orlando to Tampa a tourist train. I just talked with Nazih Hadad, Manager, Passenger Rail Development, who told me that ridership studies have shown it to be a 50/50 proposition in terms of expected tourist vs non-tourist ridership.
Besides for every tourist we take off the road, we find relief for a local commuter.
I am ALSO a strong supporter for the Jax-Miami FEC-Amtrak line:
QuoteThis is the Presentation I made, Jan. 28 in St Augustine, to State Senator Jim King, State Representative Proctor, and State Senator Tony Hill.
Maybe some of you can follow up, to show strong support for a rail project in our community that could quickly be realized.
Quote
Good Afternoon.
My name is Faye Armitage and I am speaking on behalf of concerned citizens in support of Public Transportation.
Before I even get into my specific suggestion for our area, I want to clarify how important transit is to any area, especially during periods of economic downturn. Just from an economic perspective, aside from the environmental perspective, providing rail transportation for commuters in our area is a must.
Rail consumes 21 percent less energy per passenger mile than cars, according to the Transportation Department. The huge potential for saving money on transportation would mean a great deal to people’s individual pocket books. It has been shown that in great transit areas people spend only 5 % of their income on transportation compared to an average of 20% or more currently spent by people to cover their transportation needs.
Money not spent on transportation needs will benefit our local economy as this money will be available for other consumption spending.
The projects that I propose will provide local construction jobs, and permanent jobs for additional support functions.
As many of you may be aware, and as has been reported in the Florida Times Union on Oct 24, Amtrak is planning to offer commuter rail on the Florida East Coast rail lines that parallel Interstate 95 from Jacksonville to Miami .
I am proposing that we ask Amtrak to plan for train stations in St Augustine and at the Nocatee/Racetrack junction.
For those who worry about lack of ridership, I’d like to point out that ridership increased about 13 percent in the past year while revenues have increased almost 16%. Even with gas prices having dropped since July, the ridership levels have not dropped off. So once people try it, people stick with it.
In summary my proposal would provide local jobs, and benefit many who commute into Jacsonville from the Julington Creek, Nocatee and St Augusutine areas, while having a positive impact on our environment, and reducing rush-hour congestion on I-95.
Amtrak wants to pursue this route, but it won't do it unless the state supports it and partners with Amtrak. Let’s get our local support underway and work with the Florida DOT to make it happen. I would like to ask everyone here to do their share to help realize the two proposed Amtrak Stations on Amtrak’s planned Jacksonville to Miami commuter route.
Thank You.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4616.0.html
It is what it is. However, I'm open to debating on how it will or will not work for everyday Central Florida residents and their commuting needs.
QuoteSo I take it you're against this?
No, not against it, just wanting to see how it is paid for. Maybe no one here noticed the AP story on the White House having 9 TRILLION Dollars in deficits, all on the backs of the American tax payers. I do not know one society that survives by passing the buck to the next generation. At some point, the investment in the US debt will stop and when the music stops, the nations without as much debt will all have the chairs.
Sure, this is only a few hundred million for our train tracks from Jax to Miami, but where does it stop?
All major roads built in the next few years, should and will be toll roads. I can see the turnpike being extended and the Sun Pass being used on every major road project. Once the 95 corridor is 6-laned, as it is finishing in Brevard County, but still 2 lanes south, I can't see a need to expand that to 6-lanes. Not even I-10 is slated for 6-lanes, anytime soon.
Would I like to see a fast 5-6 hour trip on a train to Miami, I would, but would the millions of $$$ be better spent on something that would benefit more people, more Floridians? Water, roads, Schools, Prisons, we only have so much $$$, is this more important than the other needs?
QuoteThis is called 'investment'.
I'll have to remember that in my time capsule for my kids, kids, kids, kids. I'll educate them on the costs of war in coins and lives. Of course, by then, you will have written a great book on the whole matter. If the Mexicans don't find more TP soon, they can use it for what it really is.
Okay, no BULL here (yeah, I know it's Ock...but HONESTLY). Perhaps it is time for a few of us on MJ to state our postion. Here is mine:
I am going on record as being AGINST the Phase I, Orlando - Mickey - Tampa, MM High Speed Rail project. I will also be adding the why, and how, of this over in my jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com blog. Unless the following corrections are made, I WILL NOT SUPPORT IT:
1. An immediate application for expansion of intra-state Amtrak corridor trains, 5 each way daily between:
JAX - DAB - WPB - MIA
JAX - TLH - PNS - MSY (New Orleans)
JAX - MCO - LL - TPA
JAX - OCF -(route split) 2 continue to TPA, 3 continue to MIA
TPA - LAL - MCO - MIA
PIE - TPA - MCO - DED (Deland)
TPA - LAL - WPB - MIA
MCO - GIF - WPB - MIA
This equals about 200 trains daily spread from Miami to Tamap to Jax to New Orleans.
2. A partner commitment from GADOT, ALDOT, MSDOT etc... for the following long distance Amtrak routes.
JAX - SAV - CAE - CLT - DCA - NYC
JAX - SAV - CHS - RIC - DCA - NYC
JAX - SAV - CAE - RDU - RIC - DCA - NYC
JAX - VLD - MCN - ATL -CHA - CVG (with endpoint splits to: CHI - DET - CLE - BUF)
JAX - VLD - BHM - MEM - CHI (with mid route splits to STL)
This 2 round trip daily schedule calls for about 20 new Longer Distance regional trains.
3. Use of the current trackage of CSX - NS - FEC, doing upgrades as needed.
4. Complete reopening of Jacksonville Terminal and demolition of the exhibit area for transpotation use.
5. If and when the MMHSR is built, it must originate on regular, central city, Amtrak Routes, only leaving this right of way between city pairs.
Until the population is "TRAINED" I will not support MMHSR in Florida.
ANYONE ELSE CARE TO JOIN ME? SPEAK UP!
OCKLAWAHA
I haven't reviewed all of the routes you listed, but I agree that Florida needs to get Amtrak corridor service up and running before high speed rail between Tampa and Orlando is discussed.
Amtrak can serve the entire state for a fraction of the cost.
Quote from: Lunican on September 01, 2009, 02:09:41 PM
I haven't reviewed all of the routes you listed, but I agree that Florida needs to get Amtrak corridor service up and running before high speed rail between Tampa and Orlando is discussed.
Amtrak can serve the entire state for a fraction of the cost.
So, you don't think we can accomplish both simultaneously? God knows we sure do need the jobs!
some folks on here are looking at potential competition for highways w/ rail in terms of time....I can assure you that the current CSX route from Tampa to Orlando could not be easily upgraded for even mildly high speed service...we're looking at around 2 hours from downtown Tampa to downtown Orlando...assuming no traffic (which is a big assumption on I-4), I can do that drive in 1:15
The reality is interstates already have all of the grade separations...which is why putting rail down the median of I-4 isn't such a bad idea.....just got to make sure there is connecting infrastructure at the stations.
Plus, think about all the people in their cars that would see a high speed train pass them at up to twice the speed!
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 01, 2009, 02:32:24 PM
some folks on here are looking at potential competition for highways w/ rail in terms of time....I can assure you that the current CSX route from Tampa to Orlando could not be easily upgraded for even mildly high speed service...we're looking at around 2 hours from downtown Tampa to downtown Orlando...assuming no traffic (which is a big assumption on I-4), I can do that drive in 1:15
The reality is interstates already have all of the grade separations...which is why putting rail down the median of I-4 isn't such a bad idea.....just got to make sure there is connecting infrastructure at the stations.
Plus, think about all the people in their cars that would see a high speed train pass them at up to twice the speed!
Thanks tufsu1,.......this is exactly why FDOT considers HSR as the SPINE or CORE system for Florida.
I am reminded of a quote I agree with whole-heartedly:
QuoteJust as the freeway spurred greater auto usage and auto centric development, high speed rail can and will spur more mass transit usage and rail connections to and from a major station.
We should not fear building HSR in cities without great mass transit systems. HSR can be the catalyst to improving mass transit.
Which does not mean we can't also be pushing for the Amtrak Jax-Miami FEC line simultaneously.
I will say when it comes to the I-4 corridor, we should place more emphasis on where commuters live and where they typically travel to, as opposed to what corridors have the most grade separations or can be designed for the highest speeds from point A to point B. This thing reminds me of JTA's first BRT North Corridor down I-95. Sure it gets you from downtown to Gateway the quickest. The problem is that no one lives on I-95 and their are no major destinations on I-95. Does time really matter if you don't provide efficient access to where your populace wants and needs to go?
The same applies to the I-4 corridor. Outside of tourist using this thing to get to the airports or Disney, its simply not set up for typical commuter uses because the actual cities outside of Tampa and Orlando aren't centered on I-4. Nevertheless, this does not mean I'm ready to lead a protest against the tourist train. If the Feds want to pay for it, so be it. However, I'm just pointing out the obvious from the perspective of someone who spent +20 years living there. As planners, designers and visionaries a lot of times we get caught up in the technical aspects of these projects. Sometimes, its best to sit back and look at these issues from an end user's perspective or a pedestrian scale level.
With that said, I can see how it will help a tourist get from OIA to Disney or I-Drive (assuming the mouse lets them have a station). But now for the tough questions. How much will the average fare be? How does it serve rapidly growing bedroom communities like Plant City, Lakeland, Haines City and the Four Corners? What can it do for the residents of Kissimmee or Tampa's booming suburbs of Brandon and Bloomingdale? Is this train supposed to relieve traffic congestion on I-4? If so, how can it be set up to remove local traffic these communities generate from the interstate on a day-to-day basis?
The other major problem I have with the fun train is costs. I believe its best to crawl before you run. In other words, maybe your first car should be a used one or fairly affordable instead of a lamborghini. The opposition to rail in this state is obvious. Dropping $3 billion on a HSR line that will not serve the daily needs of nearby residents is a huge risk to take for anyone who truly backs mass transit. If this thing fails, we can flush the idea of rail investment in Florida down the drain because it will set us back for decades. Don't believe so, then take a drive to downtown Jacksonville. The skyway is the perfect example of trying to run before walking, falling flat on your face and then being to scared to leave the crib again.
Well if FDOT is involved it will be bolluxed for sure.....only thing they are good for is asphalt and not too good at that looking at some of their designs for intersections!
Quote from: FayeforCure on September 01, 2009, 02:16:16 PM
So, you don't think we can accomplish both simultaneously? God knows we sure do need the jobs!
I don't even think we can accomplish one let alone both. There is very limited money available for high speed rail funding. If Florida actually gets any money, it would make more sense to provide 90mph service to the entire state rather than a super high speed line between Tampa and Orlando.
Well, well, well, now I'm 5 for 5? Wow, Lake, Stephen, damn we're good! Just looked at the details of the FDOT Florida East Coast phase in plan. I stated on this thread I wouldn't support MMHSR (Mickey Mouse High Speed Rail) until we have a network of corridors with 5 trains daily, EACH WAY with Amtrak or conventionall passenger carriers.
The State says it will ask Amtrak to split the Silver Meteor and Star in Jacksonville Terminal and send a section of each south on the FEC and the other section to Orlando and Tampa on the CSX. Then for good measure they think we need 3 more INTRASTATE trains, running from Jacksonville to Miami daily... Count em and weep, that's 5 daily each way!
(http://www.taplines.net/southflorida/image006.jpg)
(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/4/7/2247.1080712740.jpg)
Sanford, then and now on the South Florida - CSX.
They also claim the money they are asking for will get most of the route up to 90 MPH. TUFSU1 has stated that there is no way to squeeze any more speed out of the CSX from Orlando to Tampa. Sorry old friend, but if the one time narrow gauge line, with tortured and twisting curves, from Bunnell (Palm Coast) to Daytona, can be sped to 90 mph, we ought to be able to make the one time narrow gauge CSX line, from Orlando to Tampa, fly!
OCKLAWAHA
Ock............your Crystal ball must be really top of the line big guy!
Quote from: stephendare on October 12, 2009, 12:37:16 AM
You mean, the guy with 40 years experience knew what the hell he was talking about, but all the people with zero years didnt?
so the folks at FDOT have zero years of experience...but got ir right anyway?
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 12, 2009, 08:20:53 AM
Quote from: stephendare on October 12, 2009, 12:37:16 AM
You mean, the guy with 40 years experience knew what the hell he was talking about, but all the people with zero years didnt?
so the folks at FDOT have zero years of experience...but got ir right anyway?
Ain't that something!
We've been wanting to get the so-called "newbies" to support rail big time, and here they are,.........ready to go.
Hmmmm, fortunately the expertise sits in many places and that's the way it ought to be. It's a good thing so many are catching on. Even a fresh look is welcome, and in the case of innovation, it is absolutely indispensable.
That's why brainstorming has worked so well over the years. It takes the expertise of many.
This is an exciting announcement Amtrak expansion gives this state more bang for the buck.
Would this end up increasing the number of trains going to Savanna?
^^No, we need to also try and get the Palmetto expanded to Jacksonville. That is a NYC to Savannah train.