So...i live on Boulevard between 5th & 6th, a quiet block isolated by parks on either side. Ive lived here since i was 12yo..and I've seen the neighborhood grow immensely. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly...but I've always loved my neighborhood, especially with the current demographic.
My former Neighbor Ju'Coby Pittman of the Clara White Mission, moved out of her house a year ago (i think). Maybe a month ago..she had some work done to the house, and mentioned renting it to a client. A few days later.. i see this giant black piping clearly visible from the moon, in front of her house. After that, a re-zoning sign went up!! RED FLAG! after picking the brains of her contractors...i found out that she intended to use the house as an extention of the Clara White Mission, a special place for battered women & children.
After a while i got over it...i welcomed the idea, helping women and children is something I'm familiar with. The only thing that peeved me off, was that she didn't have the decency to let her ex-neighbors know what was going on with the house. SO....a few weeks later my neighbor Colatra Guyton and my mom were talking outside, and i knew it was something bad just from the little bit i heard. My mother comes back in the house, and tells me that she intends to turn her house into a shelter for Homeless Veterans!! My first thought was my mothers safety..then my own. I lived in springfield through the Schizo houses..and i was not about to let this happen next to my own home. My mother and neighbors attended the Jacksonville Historic preservation commission meeting last night....and she had the nerve to defend her decision. To add to insult...her friend "Mr. macho" stood there condemning us for not "supporting our vets, they fought for out freedom!"
The thing i don't understand is that this all seems like one giant conflict of interest...how can she head the mission, and then benefit from a government grant in a home she owns. After speaking with others at the meeting, we were told to rally the troops...because that's the only way to guarantee action from the city.
So your mom is wanting to turn your house into a house for vets??
I don't understand what would be wrong with having a place for homeless veterans.
Well sounds like she is just being swept up in the moment and idea of helping others and not really putting alot of thought into it.
Hopefully its a passing phase and urge but I would definatly be worryed about both of your safty. Alot of vets that are homeless have some serious phychological problems from some of the thigns they have seen and done.
Quote from: macbeth25 on July 23, 2009, 04:31:46 PM
I don't understand what would be wrong with having a place for homeless veterans.
I have no problem helping Homeless Vets...but not in the middle of a residential block.
I really don't understand why. Do you believe they will harm any one in any way? If you really have a problem with that situation, you might take it up with your zoning commission.
omg this is crazy. it is one thing to help homeless vets another thing to have a shelter next to you. i love our homeless vets but do not love them enough to have them live next to me.
This is one conversation which is not worth having. No further comments are needed.
Quote from: macbeth25 on July 23, 2009, 05:00:03 PM
This is one conversation which is not worth having. No further comments are needed.
Mac Beth you're obviously partial to vets from being in the military most of your life... but Omar has a valid concern. Imagine trying to sell your house with a shelter next door. We have plenty of old un used buildings in commercial areas that would be better suited for housing homeless.
I am a veteran. I try to help where I can. But I would also be concerned if this were planned for my neighbor's home. The homeless are homeless for a reason. Most often because of substance abuse. Mental health is also often an issue. The man has legitimate concerns, and Ialso see his point about how the government grant gets distributed. While this is a worthwhile and noble cause, safety and comfort of our citizen's must also be a concern to us.
Omni, you are stuck in the same conundrum many of us feel. Like you, when it comes to women and children, and veterans, I have a big soft spot. However, the place for that is NOT in the middle of a residential area.
Aside from that, you are correct, using your influence on a board to funnel money into your own property is a big conflict. I think perhaps the media would be interested to hear this, especially since Pitman was a former political candidate.
McBeth, when you get 5 or 10 treatment/homeless facilities within 10 blocks of your house, you will understand a bit more.
I have lived at Parks @ Cathedral on the block between Liberty, Market, Church and Ashley for 6 years. The homeless are out walking from shelters to services to meals all day and night and the Vet Center is 2 blocks away on Market. I've only had one argument with a homeless person and never any trouble beyond that. I'd prefer they weren't out on the streets so much but it's really not a big deal.
SPAR is aware & concerned about Ms. Pittman's plans. The LAST thing Springfield needs is more hpmesless/halfway houses, there are already plenty. The neigjhorhood already carries MORE than it's fair share of the homeless/halfway houses while other "urban core" neighborhoods are given a break because......well, because those communities just wouldn't have it. Springfield, as a community, doesn't have the socioeconomic ratio or numbers to have such power yet.
rest assured this would NOT be allowed to take place in San Marco, Riverside, Avondale, etc. Hell no. There would be chaos. In Springfield, however, it's much easier.
I wonder how much money Ms. Pittman will be making in this deal? I know she's not going to be donating her house, that's for sure.
Perhaps you should send your comments to Council Member Gaffney & let him know exactly how you feel about this.
Council Member, District 7
Johnny Gaffney
117 West Duval Street, Suite 425
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Phone: 904-630-1384
Email: Gaffney@coj.net
Anyone else we should contact to let our feelings be known?
Well, I guess we should have a 20 block section within the City Limits fenced and barbwired off, and just put all the social services in that area, homeless shelters, veterans homeless shelters, domestic battery shelters, food and clothing services, just put them all in there together like a military base (NAS Jax, Naval Station Mayport, NAS Oceana, etc.).
If they don't bother you don't worry about it. When crime increases or you can't live peaceably in your home, that's when you and your neighbors intervene and/or go to the Directors of these services and inform them of the problems you are having.
Just because a homeless shelter or some other social service opens near your home doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Sometimes I really believe that people are so squeemish about homelessness or neediness that they're afraid it might rub off on them and they'll become that way. Chill out everyone.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: Omarvelous09 on July 23, 2009, 04:16:15 PM
The thing i don't understand is that this all seems like one giant conflict of interest...how can she head the mission, and then benefit from a government grant in a home she owns. After speaking with others at the meeting, we were told to rally the troops...because that's the only way to guarantee action from the city.
I've included only a part of this post because I owe the group an apology. I was so busy being annoyed because it appeared several posters were against helping veterans that I failed to realize a major reason for the post concerned a conflict of interest.
Being homeless does not necessarily mean that someone is dangerous, but the poster certainly has the right to express concern.
fsu813’s comment sounds like a good suggestion and, as I mentioned earlier, zoning might be involved as well.
Heights and Macbeth. I dont think anyone has suggested that homeless oriented social services be shut down or discontinued, just spread out evenly. I know of 6 halfway houses within 6 blocks of my house, and 4 homeless shelters within a mile of my home. Can someone who lives in Southside Estates, or Lakewood say that?
bingo.
Whether you support homeless vets or not is irrelevant in this case. The use of this home in this manner is illegal under the current Springfield Zoning overlay, unless grandfathered in prior to the enactment of the overlay.
So not only is Ms. Pittman creating an ethical issue with accepting govt subsidy for donation/use of her own, personally owned property, she is attempting to skirt the law to suit her purposes.
This use is illegal in Springfield's Historic District, period.
Quote from: heights unknown on July 23, 2009, 10:45:56 PM
Just because a homeless shelter or some other social service opens near your home doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
So when exactly would having a homeless shelter near you be a good thing? I don't know of many realtors that would use that as a selling point.
What do you want to bet that a lot of these homeless "vets" are not vets at all. This is a common ploy by bums who want more sympathy. I've seen thirty-five year old beggars with signs that say "homeless Vietnam vet" more than once.
Zoo's right. This is illegal. It seems SPAR's on it but you did the right thing posting here to notify other community members. Be sure to post on the SPAR boards and contact Johnny Gaffney.
To all those who are hating on Omar wanting to be rid of this, this destroys property values. Let's just say hypothetically that the economy didn't turn sour and the housing market was still strong. Let's just say his house was worth $200,000 when he moved in. Let's say this goes in next to him. Let's say that a few years later he wants to sell his house for a lot more money (cause in our example the rest of the neighborhood has continued to bloom and property values have risen dramatically). Now most homes in the neighborhood are way above median value for Jacksonville. Think of the limited number of people who have the means to afford the more expensive homes. Do you think they are going to buy next to a shelter for vets even if they want to live in an urban area? Most won't.
I want none of this crap in Springfield. If you love it so damn much, call person who is running it and ask them to come to your neighborhood. Nimby? Damn skippy and I have no qualms with that accusation. In fact I don't even mind being called elitist for wanting to turn Springfield into another Avondale. After all, I'm just trying to maximize the return on my investment so I can live the American Dream and never have to work again. That's what capitalism is about. One person wins, but the other looses.
QuoteZoo: So not only is Ms. Pittman creating an ethical issue with accepting govt subsidy for donation/use of her own, personally owned property, she is attempting to skirt the law to suit her purposes
.
Ms. Pitman is not attempting to skirt the law. If she was, you wouldn't even know about this. She has made the
proper and legal applications for an exception as allowed by the Springfield overlay. Look up the law yourself. If you, the community, do not want the exception granted, then you need to tell the proper people and do so using facts, not false accusations.
Quote from: Deuce on July 24, 2009, 09:47:56 AM
That's what capitalism is about. One person wins, but the other looses.
Uh, that's not what capitalism is all about. Capitalism is win-win.
I see your point though an she should have discussed her plans with her neighbors first.
Not to get into a big discussion about political ideologies with you Sigma, but capitalism is not win-win. Maybe I oversimplified in my post. If a company expands it's market share without total growth in the available market, it does so at the expense of it's competitors. One company wins, the other loses. I'm taking the economist approach here, holding all other factors equal. A capitalistic economy is a zero sum game. In fact capitalism grew out of Feudalism, hardly a fair system.
This works the same in housing. Even if all homes are going up in value or down in value, some go up or down more than others. There are winners and losers in the housing market. I want to be a major winner. When the economy turns around, I want to see double digit growth for my zip code!!
Could someone besides Zoo or Strider, post the applicable law to what is going on with Omar's neighbor.
strider,
if it's not against the law, fine. But there is still a conflict of interest in 2 ways:
1) she'll be getting government funds for her own personal property. she's certainly not donating the property.
2) it's in direct conflict with what the community wants. the community overhwhelmingly does not support this decision and i hope that everyone makes that clear to her and our distirct councilman, Mr. Gaffney.
Councilman Gaffney
Office of the City Council
117 W. Duval St., Suite 425
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Phone: (904) 630-1384
FAX: (904) 630-2906
Email: Gaffney@coj.net
Assistant: Bridgette Green
&
Ju'Coby Pittman-Peele
CEO/President of Clara White Mission
jpittman@clarawhitemission.org
904.354.4162, EXT 103
Quoteif it's not against the law, fine. But there is still a conflict of interest in 2 ways:
1) she'll be getting government funds for her own personal property. she's certainly not donating the property.
2) it's in direct conflict with what the community wants. the community overhwhelmingly does not support this decision and i hope that everyone makes that clear to her and our distirct councilman, Mr. Gaffney.
1) If she is getting nothing more than anyone else would for "rent" or whatever and if she is doing it by the book, it is not unethical nor is it a legal conflict of interest. My point is that until you know, it is in your best interest not to accuse her. False accusations help the other "side" not you.
2) That is, afterall, the point of making something OK by exception only. If the community has factual and solid reasons (not false claims or accusations) for not wanting the zoning excemption, then the "powers that be" should find with the community. Make a lot of false claims and accusations as I have read here on this thread already and many previous times on this forum and others, and you will give the exception a good chance of being approved.
Another thing, should accusations prove to be incorrect, they sometimes result in legal actions. I never can remember the difference between libel and slander but either can be expensive. No, I am not saying that anyone is incorrect, only pointing out an obvious consequence should there be an error. I would imagine that posting what proves to be incorrect information on a public website such as this could have the same consequences as printing incorrect material in a newspaper or publishing it through other media.
QuoteI would imagine that posting what proves to be incorrect information on a public website such as this could have the same consequences as printing incorrect material in a newspaper or publishing it through other media.
Then they are certainly posters on this website that would be guilty of slander.
I do not want a single group home in this neighborhood! No gentrifying neighborhood grows by adding group homes! I know that I am not alone in this sentiment. Probably half the Springfielders on here agree with me, the other half don't.
I'm really not trying to be funny but where would comments on a website like this fall? Much of the activity here is conversational -- almost like you're in the same room and talking -- but it is being typed on a page.
If she's going to be receiving ANY funds from this then it's a conflict, period.
Good luck getting very far with a libel suit over a message board conversation of opinions having to do with the subjective 'conflict of interest topic' (ha).
Quote from: stephendare on July 24, 2009, 01:56:39 PM
well it would be libel.
And accusing someone of breaking the law, or being a lawbreaker would be libel. Libel suits are hard to win, but expensive to fight.
Stephen, many people get accused crimes they aren't convicted of but are not getting sued. I'm no lawyer, but it seems that the standard for libel is probably subject to more specific circumstances and would take into account context and intent thus creating the high bar you refer to for winning.
Also, public figures usually have an even harder time winning. Ms. Pittman might be, in some circles, considered a public figure, at least with regard to this event.
strj,
Considering she was in a recent issue of 904 Magazine with a full page spread, yes, she's a very public figure.
Quote from: stephendare on July 24, 2009, 02:13:00 PM
I should have been clearer probably. Since I didn't think libel had occurred, I didnt realize my comment would be taken so.
No qualms with your response. I was just trying to refine it a little bit.
Point is Jay Leno can say things on his entertainment shows that Brian Williams, on the same network, can't say on his show, the Nightly News.
Any chance of getting back to the topic of another group home trying to be rammed down Springfield's overflowing throat?
have I ever said that reading these forums are one of the highlights of my day at work!!!
Yes, isn't it? It is for a particular # of unrelated individuals. Doesn't that constitute a group? And I'm not that old Stephen and I carry a Glock not an axe. :)
Eye Bleach! Eye bleach! You'd have to real liquored up to want to kiss anyone of those! Stephen, where did you find those pictures?
Its too bad we dont have any lawyers posting on this thread to clear things up for us.
That said, Illegal, or not, I dont want another facility in the neighborhood. We simply have too many as it is.
Quote from: nvrenuf on July 24, 2009, 02:59:34 PM
Yes, isn't it? It is for a particular # of unrelated individuals. Doesn't that constitute a group? And I'm not that old Stephen and I carry a Glock not an axe. :)
I hope you're licensed to carry a concealed weapon and properly trained. I'm not too sure I would want you around me, though.
Quote from: downtownparks on July 24, 2009, 04:43:51 PM
Its too bad we dont have any lawyers posting on this thread to clear things up for us.
That said, Illegal, or not, I dont want another facility in the neighborhood. We simply have too many as it is.
eff lawyers, wtf do they know anyway!
I'm actually finding this very amusing at the moment. OMG say it ain't so another do-gooder is proposing another do-gooder dumping ground so they can feed off the government nipple (AGAIN)! I mean at this point its almost laughable. At least I will know that if this goes through then I can forsee the transformation of my own property in the future, from that of single family dwelling to "group" home. If this trend continues in SPR The property values will continue to fall and eventually we'll all be paying the city the pittance in property taxes that it clearly seems to want. My home once only paid 800 dollars a year to this city, wouldn't mind a bit if this happened again!
Quote from: macbeth25 on July 24, 2009, 04:50:58 PM
Quote from: nvrenuf on July 24, 2009, 02:59:34 PM
Yes, isn't it? It is for a particular # of unrelated individuals. Doesn't that constitute a group? And I'm not that old Stephen and I carry a Glock not an axe. :)
I hope you're licensed to carry a concealed weapon and properly trained. I'm not too sure I would want you around me, though.
Yes on both counts. Why have you or would you do something that would cause me to feel the need to use it?
It is far less likely that someone who doesn't carry a weapon will shoot me. You might not have a reason to use it against me but what if you feel you have to use it around me. I would be just as dead. There is no guarantee that when you're trying to defend yourself or trying to stop someone else that you won't miss or your bullet will not pass through your target or through a wall and hit me or someone else. Frankly, people carrying weapons frighten me.
Macbeth your argument isn't entirely logical but we are getting off track AGAIN. Does anyone know the result of the HPC meeting mentioned in the original post? I'll try to find what I can but my HPC contact is often incommunicado.
All I could find from the July 22 HPC meeting was a request for a Fire Alarm System.
4. COA-09-388 1541 Boulevard Springfield
Applicant: Ju’Coby Pittman Request: Fire Alarm System
Owner: same
Recommendation: Approve with Conditions
Commission Action:
why would someone need approval for a fire alarm?
QuoteStrider: Ms. Pitman is not attempting to skirt the law. If she was, you wouldn't even know about this. She has made the proper and legal applications for an exception as allowed by the Springfield overlay.
OK, so I have to admitt I was wrong. I was caught up in the Hub Bub about a group care home and incorrectly assumed that an application would have to be for an exception and so the house was zoned CRO-S. It isn't, this area on Boulevard is zoned RMD-S and so no exception is needed. A low density group care home is a permissible use in RMD-S.
Quote4. COA-09-388 1541 Boulevard Springfield
Applicant: Ju’Coby Pittman Request: Fire Alarm System
Owner: same
Recommendation: Approve with Conditions
Commission Action:
It does seem odd that as fire alarms would normally only require interior work that this would have to be taken before the commission. Perhaps there are accessability items also included in this COA that could be seen from the street. This COA would of course only be judged on the physical suitability and not use.
Call Charlie Wilson with the COJ Municipal Code Compliance office at 255-7049
Quote from: macbeth25 on July 24, 2009, 05:43:23 PM
It is far less likely that someone who doesn't carry a weapon will shoot me. You might not have a reason to use it against me but what if you feel you have to use it around me. I would be just as dead. There is no guarantee that when you're trying to defend yourself or trying to stop someone else that you won't miss or your bullet will not pass through your target or through a wall and hit me or someone else. Frankly, people carrying weapons frighten me.
If you are hold by a knife, would you want to defend yourself or hope someone can defend you? How often people are shot by properly licensed and trained people? How often people are victimized because they lack of means of defending themselves? I am properly permit and trained and carry a Sig. With the amount of group homes coming to my hood, I feel the need to carry it even stronger so I can protect my loved ones, my property and my dog.
Quote from: movedsouth on July 27, 2009, 06:06:47 AM
Yeah! Just double checked. Our home is RMD-S too!!!! (where is the best place to look up what you can do with RMD-S (Residential Medium Density - Springfield)
First go to COJ.net and go to the planning & Developement department, to current planning, then to zoning code (on the left), which takes you to municode. Search for Springfield, which will direct you to the overlay. Then look up what is permissible in RMD-S.
Quote(d) Special uses. Special uses include residential treatment facilities, rooming houses, emergency shelter homes, group care homes, and community residential homes of over six residents. New special uses are not allowed in the district and existing special uses must conform to the standards set forth in Section 656.369.
So strider is showing that the zoning density allows for the use, but zoo has specifically shown from the code that new uses are verboten. Zoo, is that from the overlay or is it a separate section of the code.
"not allowed" with the caveat that one can get an OK from the city if one shows a good heart and willingness to help the misfortunate.
I would also add that this city's enforcement of its "code" is shotty at best, so movedsouth roll the dice... might make enough to get your mortgage paid and have some left over for that weekly dinner at the Capital Grille. If you do get fined just let the fines roll up nothing ever happens anyway.
Man, some people know how to beat a dead horse beyond submission. Call 630-CITY (2489) and file a complaint with code enforcement. Get the ticket registered, then track it through the system. Council people are good too, but they are bit busy with taxes right now. The CITY system works well, especially with Code Enforcement.
Quote from: mtraininjax on July 27, 2009, 10:20:22 AM
Man, some people know how to beat a dead horse beyond submission. Call 630-CITY (2489) and file a complaint with code enforcement. Get the ticket registered, then track it through the system. Council people are good too, but they are bit busy with taxes right now. The CITY system works well, especially with Code Enforcement.
I also have found the code enforcement people to be very responsive, but they will only respond to a complaint ticket. Their job performance is rated on their ticket closure rate and they seldom to never start their own tickets. If no one complains with a ticket, nothing happens.
You can file them through the City system or online and track them online as well.
Quote from: zoo on July 27, 2009, 09:54:24 AM
Quote(d) Special uses. Special uses include residential treatment facilities, rooming houses, emergency shelter homes, group care homes, and community residential homes of over six residents. New special uses are not allowed in the district and existing special uses must conform to the standards set forth in Section 656.369.
This is because
a low density group care home is not a special use under the overlay. Read your quote above, Zoo. It states in part:
group care homes, and community residential homes of over six residents. A low density (6 or fewer) legal group care home is allowed in RMD-s or actually even under the normal codes without the overlay.
In some zoning codes, even higher density group care homes are allowed by exception. Of course, the density levels today are lower than they were when most of the actual special uses were opened and licensed.
>>I also have found the code enforcement people to be very responsive, but they will only respond to a complaint ticket. Their job performance is rated on their ticket closure rate and they seldom to never start their own tickets. If no one complains with a ticket, nothing happens.<<
Dog Walker I have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. Because I know for a fact that from Oct 1 2008 to 1 June 2009, Property Safety Code Enforcement Officers generated 44.9% of the total number of cases that they investigated. Their job performance is based on how many inspections they do per day, not how many cases they close. Now there are other Code Enforcement officers in COJ. Building Code Enforcement. Animal Code Enforcement. You may be speaking about one of those agencies. But not Property safety.
Jbroad, you are correct. I was speaking of building code only. In any case it wasn't criticism on my part, just repeating what I was told by a building code person. Frankly I think that all of those departments are doing a decent job with limited resources.
dw..Building Code Inspectors are measured by how many cases they close? That doesn't seem like a real good measurement to me, since all it would take is for an inspector to just say "the heck with it" and approve or disapprove something and close the case. But thats just me.
QuoteStrider knows that we see eye to eye on most issues, and Zoo knows that we often disagree with each other.
But in this case, on the code side, I have to agree with Zoo. New group homes were specifically not permitted in the springfield overlay
Stephen, wanna make a bet as to who is right and who isn't on this one? (Before you take that bet, go read the ordinance at municode---or just read what has been posted by ZOO & I both - it sort of says it all.) ;D
Quote from: macbeth25 on July 24, 2009, 05:43:23 PM
It is far less likely that someone who doesn't carry a weapon will shoot me. You might not have a reason to use it against me but what if you feel you have to use it around me. I would be just as dead. There is no guarantee that when you're trying to defend yourself or trying to stop someone else that you won't miss or your bullet will not pass through your target or through a wall and hit me or someone else. Frankly, people carrying weapons frighten me.
Most people who carry are typically more likely to not ever use a weapon. I carry becuase I have to and have instances while carrying where it has saved my life. People who register to carry shouldnt firighten you, its those who dont that should.
sport, very well put
Thank you
Quote from: strider on July 27, 2009, 04:16:58 PM
QuoteStrider knows that we see eye to eye on most issues, and Zoo knows that we often disagree with each other.
But in this case, on the code side, I have to agree with Zoo. New group homes were specifically not permitted in the springfield overlay
Stephen, wanna make a bet as to who is right and who isn't on this one? (Before you take that bet, go read the ordinance at municode---or just read what has been posted by ZOO & I both - it sort of says it all.) ;D
Its obvious Joe knows, because he has opened 5 of the things.
It doesnt make it any better.
I believe that this all skirts the intent of the back and forth that occurred over the overlay a year ago, and of the whole debate that was held when Joe, and his group of halfway houses contested the original overlay.
Joe, in his own special sanctimonious way, told everyone that the overlay redo would solve the problems he and other businesses were facing, despite protections in the overlay. It would let the legit businesses who has existed for years, continue to operate as they always had, and that no more special use houses would be allowed.
The second the legislation was signed and sealed, Joe rushed right in, and opened all of his properties as 'low density' facilities, because nobody caught on to the '6 residents' caveat.
Ju'Coby Pittman is just reaping the fruit of Joes labor.
So Strider (Joe) did not do that? Or he did but you feel this isn't the place to say so?
After reading through the code myself, it does seem that the under six low density is allowed. I hate to admit that as I don't want any of these use types in the neighborhood, either existing or future. I want to see families move in.
All of this leads me to other questions though. What's the required square footage of habitation, i.e. how many sq ft of bedroom is required per adult. Is that stated elsewhere in the muni code or is it in state fire code? If it's not included anywhere in the code then that is a major oversight in the drafting of the overlay.
Stephan, after reading your long statement twice, I was not able to find anything that answers nvrnef's question. I feel that your answer contains words such as "jackass neighbors", "personal venom" fits the bill of "personally attack"
Quote from: stephendare on July 28, 2009, 12:22:43 PM
surprised you didn't know that.
Stephen, it's your narcissistic condescension towards other posters that is just as bad as "name calling". I laugh at how you split hairs on this issue. Anytime you dish out remarks towards another, it should not be considered negative or personal, just "snarky". What a joke.
Moving on:
Strider is active in managing his properties and tenants. Any problems, and he will address it (and I don't mean by getting drunk in an SUV and running down anyone either).
To my knowledge, there are no problems with any property Strider manages. You can't say that for some of the other landlords or "managers". So personal reputation here goes a long way and should be considered with Pittman.
I will repeat - she should have discussed the whole issue with her neighbors. Especially in a sensitive community like Springfield where residents have invested heavily to turn around its blighted past.
Mental issues? Violent history? drug abuse? These questions, I believe, are the underlying concerns for any of these group homes. Residents have a right to be concerned.
I would much rather have a home next to me that Strider owns and manages, than say, some seedy, absent landlord who rents Section 8, or houses a bunch of loud partying college students.
OK...let me clear things up. As i stated in the original post, the hearing was in reference to the "Fire Alarm sprinkler system unit" two feet from the sidewalk. The information regarding the Vets home came after investigating the need for a sprinkler system that large.
In response to those who have labled me as someone who lacks compassion for the homeless/vets...you shouldn't make ignorant accusations about someone you don't know. Not only has my family been involved in local social services for decades, and i have personally worked with the Clara White mission since i was a teenager. My concerns are not only with the property value, but with the welfare of my mother and the other single older women who live on the block.
A veterans shelter is a great idea for springfield, especially with the VA hospital on the way...but there are many other buildings that are better suited. As to the codes that apply to the number of people allowed..the property has a separate apartment in the back. I've lived in springfield most of my life, and have seen many a "shelter" turn into a group home...and eventually into a hot bed for drugs use/sale.
Like i stated originally, during the meeting she had a representative speak regarding the matter of the Vet. Shelter....so its not like i pulled this out of my butt. Whether this is passed or not.. i just wanted to bring it to the readers attention. All i really have to say in my defense, is imagine if it was your home?
WOW, guess I shouldn't ask for clarification of a statement. ever. again.
Quote from: stephendare on July 28, 2009, 02:48:06 PM
I'm sorry Omar. I didn't see the post where said it was discussed at the meeting! :)
It's OK Stephen... i just don't want this thread ( like all others) to turn into a battle ground of personal opinion. My intent was to bring this info to the forefront of the community, even though it hasn't been officially proposed. As to the person who suggested that i wait until something bad happens to report it... You don't put your head up to a gun, and wait for the person to shoot before running. Especially since Ms. Pittman can't dictate who will be able to stay in the shelter....if she was able to do that i wouldn't mind as much.
Omar, your point is right on target. We have been told before whether with intended sincerity or not that 'special use home' X will only provide services for these incredibly wonderful people who only need a helping hand. Don't we all want to help? Then the next thing you know its pedophiles and people waving guns as they walk through our residential streets. And those were both in 1 'special use home' with supposedly onsite management and curfew that I'm referring to. I don't know about all the others in our small neighborhood.
"Il ne faut rien laisser au hasard."
It's just a touchy subject Omar - your concern is valid.
Quote from: stephendare on July 28, 2009, 03:17:29 PM
exactly Omar. way too much battlegrounding and attacking.
Why wouldn't Miss Pittman be able to say who stays there?
Well to my understanding...she would technically be leasing her home to the VA association.
Is there a non-attacking way to tell someone to blow it out their ass?
I guess there is. You just talk about them in a not-so-abstract third person, never quite replying, but leaving nobody with a doubt about who or what your talking about. Well done.
Omar, you have done nothing wrong, nor has anyone else (well, mostly). This is a big issue. Before the overlay was re-tuned last year, it seemed like this topic wasnt that big. We had river regions and the Jewish center issue several years ago, but most of the halfway house/rooming house issues that came up, dealt with fly-by-night operations that were illegal by any standard, or long standing businesses who have been in the community for years.
Now, since it has come up, its been a regular issue. Odd how that happens, isnt it?
Anyone who tries to spin this as a vet-hating issue, is being disingenuous.
Do you read your own posts? just wondering?
Omarvelous09 -- You probably know the story behind the picture you use -- but you might not know, and I'm sure most people don't, that the photo was taken by a photographer using a 4x5 speed or crown graphic camera with two-sided plates holding a sheet of film on each side. I used to use one of those in high school to take photos at football games. I carried more weight -- case, flash bulbs, extra film, etc. -- than the football players and theirs was more evenly distributed. I just had a strap around my neck holding that metal case. Devloping and processing that film and printing pictures for the newspaper were ridiculous. Now I use a digital camera and that's a lot more fun. Flags of Our Fathers (one of the sites you get if you Google is http://www.flagsofourfathers.com/ (http://www.flagsofourfathers.com/)), kind of tells the story but there are many other sites which do so, too.
The basics of what I could find in the Springfield Overlay (Section 656.369): 7 or more people makes it a 'special use' and no new ones are allowed, 6 or under are 'community residential homes' and are allowed subject to the following criteria:
(1) New community residential homes must be at least 1,000 feet from existing community residential homes.
(2) Principal and accessory residential structures must comprise at least 1,500 heated square feet.
(A) Chain link fences shall not be allowed in front yards or in side yards along public streets.
(B) The use shall comply with all applicable City property maintenance and unsafe building codes.
So if she is planning for 7 or more people - not allowed.
If 6 or under and there is another community residential home within 1000' - not allowed.
The house is 2176 heated square feet - no issue.
I haven't looked at the fence.
Question now is who determines how many are residing there? Ms Pittman based on a contract she provides to the VA or does the VA decide?
Quote from: nvrenuf on July 28, 2009, 05:36:48 PM
The basics of what I could find in the Springfield Overlay (Section 656.369): 7 or more people makes it a 'special use' and no new ones are allowed, 6 or under are 'community residential homes' and are allowed subject to the following criteria:
(1) New community residential homes must be at least 1,000 feet from existing community residential homes.
(2) Principal and accessory residential structures must comprise at least 1,500 heated square feet.
(A) Chain link fences shall not be allowed in front yards or in side yards along public streets.
(B) The use shall comply with all applicable City property maintenance and unsafe building codes.
So if she is planning for 7 or more people - not allowed.
If 6 or under and there is another community residential home within 1000' - not allowed.
The house is 2176 heated square feet - no issue.
I haven't looked at the fence.
Question now is who determines how many are residing there? Ms Pittman based on a contract she provides to the VA or does the VA decide?
Honestly i dont know that information yet. I was told that 4 would be in the main house, and 2 in the rear...The VA will be dictating who is allowed to reside in the house.
yo stephen, yes there are those types here in SPR (as you know) but those types are in every neighborhood. I lived in Neptune Beach before moving to SPR and let me tell you the venom there was just as bad, no it was worse because they have their own gov't and police allowing those with vendettas real power to make someone's life miserable. Go try to open a group home there, I guarantee if they couldn't tar and feather you, they'd trump up some charge and have you arrested.
I just hope one day a thread will actually stay on topic and posters will supply factual information. Too often every thread, regardless of the topic, gets turned into same discussion which gets rehashed over and over without any real outcome.
So back on topic.
There was a HPC hearing about a sprinkler system. One wonders why a huge sprnikler system with a large pipe up front is needed. What is the ultimate goal.
The overlay allows less than 6 unrelated people. Is this per building or per unit ? So if it's a duplex, would it be 12 people ?
PS: I agree that Striders properties are well managed. I have never had a problem with any of them. But that discussion does not advance this topic.
Quote from: AlexS on July 29, 2009, 12:39:08 AM
I just hope one day a thread will actually stay on topic and posters will supply factual information.
So how bout them jags? ;D
Anyone know the number of halfway houses / shelters that are already in the area?
fsu813, I think the SPAR office may have a list.
just wondering....i know Strider has a bunch.
Would that be a list of the actual legal halfway houses that were so hotly contested last year? Or these 'low density' halfway houses?
If my memory serves me, the legal halfway houses were The Dr Daniel House on Hubbard, the Alco house on 4th, The Joint houses at 7th and Pearl, and then Striders place near 8th and Pearl.
If you start including the low density homes, Im not sure there is any way to track them.
I'm fairly certain they have a list of all the legal ones and probably have a list of questionable ones too.
Is it just me or does it seem like everyone taking a crap in our house are people that don't live hear? What's worse it doing it under the context of "caring" blah, blah, blah they are all being well compensated for their "generous heart". Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with some good ole capitalism but let's putting chocolate on it doesn't make it any less a big ole stinking turd.
Yup. It'd be one thing if these people lived in the neigborhood, but they don't. That tells you what the really think of thier endevours.
At least in the old boarding houses, the owner lived in the same building. Maybe we should require all apartment owners or "group" home owners to live in or next door to their property. That would surely reduce the problems!
(ha) i'd guess the sincere compassion for these poor, hard luck individuals would suddenly run dry.....
Don't you mean "$incere Compa$$ion"?
Actually, several of the owners of the remaining rooming houses and half way houses do indeed live on site or at least next door. Just about all of them have several other interests in Springfield and/ or many have lived in Springfield in the past. If you have a business in an area, own houses in an area, you actually can care about the area as well. Many who know me, for instance, know I do care about the area and that we are in Springfield many times each and everyday, which is why I bother to post anything at all. I keep hoping some of you out there "get it" and we can all work towards a better Springfield. Instead, we are faced with comments like some of the posts above from some who don't have a clue of what they speak.
VanHorne had "interest" in and look how well that has worked for Springfield. The "used to"'s - gee, why not now? Spare us the concern, dump the garbage in your own yard.
Van Horne...hmmmm.....,let's see, a block plus of decently restored houses, several commercial properties still up and running that might otherwise have been torn down and how odd that when things were going good for him, he was the darling of Springfield. When things got rough, most turned on him. Some of the "bad press" may have been earned, but say what you will, the legacy he left Springfield was not all bad. I think that, at least when he is in a generous mood, even Stephen might agree with that.
What about all those empty new foundations scattered all around Springfield? If something happens to SRG, are you going to remember them the same way as Van Horne?
You also asked why I don't live in Springfield anymore? Several reasons, actually. Most aren't any of your business. What I have at my garage/shop wouldn't be welcomed in Springfield. Which is actually OK, as it wouldn't be appropriate in a historic area.
But we digress. Let's repeat: I keep hoping some of you out there "get it" and we can all work towards a better Springfield. Instead, we are faced with comments like some of the posts above from some who don't have a clue of what they speak.
My guess is that you feel "a better Springfield" includes all of your borading/halfway houses and more, while most everyone else thinks differently. i'm not saying you run bad houses, i'm saying they inherently come with baggage that most would rather not be around.
Sadly enough Springfield will not improve by posts on the forum board. Contemplate that !
AlexS, what you say is mostly true...but it can begin with a better understanding of things from sensible posts on a forum board, but it takes personal commitment and personal interaction to make a difference in the end.
Quote from: strider on August 05, 2009, 11:15:07 PM
AlexS, what you say is mostly true...but it can begin with a better understanding of things from sensible posts on a forum board, but it takes personal commitment and personal interaction to make a difference in the end.
Agreed. But what is the percentage of residents who read or post on the forum board ? And how many of these still have an open mind ?
I am so tired of people not even trying to invest the energy to research the facts. Most believe a party line from a "trusted" source.
Quote from: stephendare on August 05, 2009, 11:04:44 PM
enuff already: small people. small minds. small wonder.
fsu813: Everything comes with baggage. Rich people beat their kids. Fun people divorce. Quiet people go nuts and shoot thirty strangers at mcdonalds on a random thursday.
Are there statistics to back up the fact that EVERYTHING comes with baggage? Open minded, certainly. Also tired of people peeing on us and trying to convince us that it is raining.
Sometimes, AlexS, it isn't the ones that are posting on the forum that you must care about. It is the scores of people who read the forum and never post. Frankly, while it is important to reach residents of Springfield proper, it can be just as important to get the info out to those who have an interest in Springfield but may not live here. A look at the membership of MJ shows a wide range of people from city government to just the guy down the street.
I read and post to both try to provide information and learn myself. It seems easier sometimes to read about a subject then research it yourself rather start the research all on your own.
Yes, I agree, it can get tiring to deal with those like, say, enuffalready, whose entire MJ career has been one of implying bad things about people ( sort of name calling) and implying that someone is peeing on him/her. Sad, really.
Corrected per the post below. My apologies.
Quote from: strider on August 05, 2009, 11:52:24 PM
Sometimes, AlexS, it isn't the ones that are posting on the forum that you must care about. It is the scores of people who read the forum and never post. Frankly, while it is important to reach residents of Springfield proper, it can be just as important to get the info out to those who have an interest in Springfield but may not live here. A look at the membership of MJ shows a wide range of people from city government to just the guy down the street.
I read and post to both try to provide information and learn myself. It seems easier sometimes to read about a subject then research it yourself rather start the research all on your own.
Yes, I agree, it can get tiring to deal with those like, say, enuffalready, whose entire MJ career has been one of name calling and implying that someone is peeing on him/her. Sad, really.
No what is sad is people using people for the almighty dollar under the guise of caring. Take away the money and these concerned people would be nowhere to be found. You don't live here so quit trying to tell us what is or isn't good for us. I don't remember calling you a name but hey Joe you seem to know everything about me, yet you are so very clueless. Sad that someone like you that is so open minded is so quick to judge someone else so quickly.
Strider, your posts continue to be so condescending, I don't believe you have much of a chance of convincing others of the argument you believe in -- that the group homes, boarding houses, rooming houses, etc. (low density or otherwise) of today are the same places you describe in your trips down memory lane, and that you run them out of the good of your heart, rather than out of capitalistic interests.
A resident's "investment model" is dependent on factors that contribute to the increase of property values. While all property owners would benefit from this, it seems the model you currently espouse, which relies on property values remaining where they are so rents continue to be well below market-rate and subsidies for low-income/special needs housing can be received, is more advantageous to you. This places you, as a non-resident, at the opposite end of the model from residents.
You may not be a slumlord, and I'll give you props for that. But you are also no hero in Springfield to the people who actually live here -- you are a capitalist protecting your interests, simple as that. And just because others don't agree with your approach does not mean they don't "get it" or are not sensible.
Your insults may be disguised in more civil language than most personal attacks on this site, but a duck is a duck.
Quote from: zoo on August 06, 2009, 06:06:08 PM
Strider, your posts continue to be so condescending, I don't believe you have much of a chance of convincing others of the argument you believe in -- that the group homes, boarding houses, rooming houses, etc. (low density or otherwise) of today are the same places you describe in your trips down memory lane, and that you run them out of the good of your heart, rather than out of capitalistic interests.
A resident's "investment model" is dependent on factors that contribute to the increase of property values. While all property owners would benefit from this, it seems the model you currently espouse, which relies on property values remaining where they are so rents continue to be well below market-rate and subsidies for low-income/special needs housing can be received, is more advantageous to you. This places you, as a non-resident, at the opposite end of the model from residents.
You may not be a slumlord, and I'll give you props for that. But you are also no hero in Springfield to the people who actually live here -- you are a capitalist protecting your interests, simple as that. And just because others don't agree with your approach does not mean they don't "get it" or are not sensible.
Your insults may be disguised in more civil language than most personal attacks on this site, but a duck is a duck.
whoa...kudos.
I seriously doubt that Strider expects to be anyone's hero (except mine, of course, and at that he is very good).
I do think it is important for all who love Springfield to look at all of the factors which contributed to its downfall in years past, in order that we don't repeat it. That seems reasonable enough.
As far as his condescending tone...geez...quack quack everywhere.
Actually, Zoo, the word most used to describe me by many on these forums is sanctimonious. Please try to get it right. :-*
that won't make this issue go away.....
(http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/b/black-oak-arkansas/album-black-oak-arkansas.jpg)
Quote from: stephendare on August 06, 2009, 08:11:55 PM
You people are such interesting wonderful people. I wish you could stop being mean to each other over fairly mundane bullshit, kick back with a big freaking umbrella drink and listen to some nice acid jazz.
Stephen, nice to see your back on your medication...ROFL
for me it's SOCO and BLACK OAK ARKANSAS... Ahh JIM DANDY!OCKLAWAHA
Whoa! Thanks Ock! That was a blast from the past! :D
....and totally not on topic....
Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 06, 2009, 11:04:12 PM
(http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/b/black-oak-arkansas/album-black-oak-arkansas.jpg)
Quote from: stephendare on August 06, 2009, 08:11:55 PM
You people are such interesting wonderful people. I wish you could stop being mean to each other over fairly mundane bullshit, kick back with a big freaking umbrella drink and listen to some nice acid jazz.
Stephen, nice to see your back on your medication...ROFL
for me it's SOCO and BLACK OAK ARKANSAS... Ahh JIM DANDY!
OCKLAWAHA
All I ever think of RE Black Oak are those horrible JD Byrider commercials!!!
"JD to the Rescue....JD to the Rescue" ROFL
If so, I wonder why. ???
Quote from: Springfielder on August 07, 2009, 07:27:50 AM
....and totally not on topic....
Oh my god!
"ONE FOR THE BOX!"
This topic hasn't had a topic in two pages, except those that are writing about, those who wrote about, those who thought about, those who acted out, and... Well, hope you get the idea.
Don't insult me, hell, I have HIGH friends in places!OCKLAWAHA
Regarding Springfield -- Did anyone notice that article on the Fox News 4 website -- at least I think that's where I saw it -- about that police detective who shot at someone in Springfield (somewhere around Phoenix). One comment was that Phoenix wasn't in Springfield and the reporter was stupid. I can't seem to find the item now, but did anyone else see it?
Phoenix isnt in Springfield... Its in... wait for it... Phoenix. I think Eastside is also acceptable.
Right. That was the responder's point regarding the shooting. The story said Springfield and it wasn't there. Have you seen the story?