http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB123051100709638419.html
(http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-AO116_RUSPRO_NS_20081228191715.gif)
QuoteMOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.
[Prof. Panarin]
Igor Panarin
In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."
Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.
But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.
A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.
"There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.
Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.
In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin's ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country's top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin's English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.
Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."
Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.
Mr. Panarin's résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB's successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.
The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."
In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.
"When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise," he remembers. He says most in the audience were skeptical. "They didn't believe me."
At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.
He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.
California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.
"It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.
Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia's biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt "a pyramid scheme," and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington's role as a global financial regulator.
Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles."
The article prompted a question about the White House's reaction to Prof. Panarin's forecast at a December news conference. "I'll have to decline to comment," spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.
For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino's response was significant. "The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully," he says.
The professor says he's convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin.
What a crazy prediction. Based on his breakdown, he definately does not understand American culture.
If the country ever broke up, I think you would see a few states, like Florida and New York, split. I just can't imagine Central/South Florida going in the same direction as Mississippi or Alabama. Its also hard to imagine Deep South states like Kentucky, South Carolina or Tennessee aligning with the Northeast. That mix is like gasoline and bleach.
I agree with Lake. Any hypothetical breakup would be far more likely that the states would group into smaller independent country-states. A New England, a Carolina Virgina. I think that there would be a Republic of California (its already a bigger economy than Mexico and Canada) but it would be independent, not under Chinese control.
Politically, Kentucky and Tennessee are still way more southern, and would likely end up as part of a southern union, not an Eastern Atlantic US nation.
It sounds like he his basing this on a gut feeling more than solid understanding of the US sociological, political, and economic make up.
You've really outdone yourself this time Stephen! I guess I should start exchanging my dollars for pesos. Hasta La Vista!
Its hard to imagine a place like San Francisco wanting the Chinese to tell them how many kids they can have or when they can log on to the internet.
China presently holds a pretty big mortgage on this country. Maybe they will call the loan?
China needs us a lot more than we need China.
I think the idea that a break up of the US is imminent is farcical. Perhaps at some point in the future, but 2010 is quite a stretch.
What this really shows is that this guy is no expert on russia - US relations and does not understand this country at all. If the Kremlin relies on guys like this for analysis they are worse off than I thought...
Good lord we would have to be pretty bad off to aling under mexico influence.... I agree with BT and Lake on this one!
Clearly we would throw our cards in with the Cubans... :D
This Russian Professors assertions are not crazy at all. Anything could happen even what he predicts; but I disagree with the way it would happen or would unfold. If it happens, this is the way I think it will happen:
1) The United States collapses economically and financially
2) The U.S. Government becomes crises oriented trying desperately to solve or defuse the economic and financial crises
3) The whole nation states become distrustful of Washington with numerous states threatening to secede from the Union.
4) In the meantime, martial law is enacted because riots break across much of the nation which includes looting, carnage, race riots, and gang wars.
5) The U.S. Military, or what's left of it tries desperately to maintain order but to no avail; Civil and local police and sheriff call on the military and the guard for help, but this does not stop the rampant riots, looting and other crimes.
6) In the past the U.S. always intervened in other countries when they couldn't solve their own domestic problems, now the international community, led by the United Nations and what's left of the U.S. government welcomes outside help in any way, shape or form
7) While the nation is preoccupied with internal problems, terrorists attacks are sparked in several major and mid-sized cities
8) As a result, most of the nation's infrastructure (economic, financial, political, etc.) is decimated with no one communicating as in the past; for unknown reasons, most of the nation's satellites are not working; rumors abound that numerous satellites have been disabled by Russian and Chinese attacks.
9) With little or no communications, barely a cohesive military, and no law and order, the nation is attacked; from the west coast by chinese and russian troops, from the South by Mexican troops with rumors of Chinese control over these troops. The nation is trying despartely to fight off these invasions but to no avail.
This is what COULD happen; and if true, eventually, the nation would probably be taken over, yes, by foreign forces. You people will think I'm crazy, and some of you will get angry regarding what I am about to say, but the only solution is to pray for our nation, and turn back to God with all of our hearts. He (God) is who made us great and we have forgotten him and basically reject him as Lord and God over our nation. If any of you think this is crazy or far feteched, then watch what happens in the coming months. Pray for our nation.
Just remember, if we collapse in any way, shape or form, there will be a dominoe effect, in which if it starts, there will be no return to what we were.
Heights Unknown
Let us bow our heads in prayer to the flying spaghetti monster so that he may protect us.
All of this is a bit dramatic but I will agree with one point, which is anything can happen. There's a lot of "fall of America" conspiracy theories out there though. They've been around even in far more peaceful times in which the economy was florishing as well.
I think the root of this fear is because a lot of people are scared of what's going to happen to the country because a certain party is soon to be out of power...
That's just my take on things though.
This is exactly what the Russian Proffesor wants... everyone to start speculation and rumors among us of the U.S. collapsing into chaos.
Typical "war of the worlds" scenario
Our country has been through much worse and held together just fine
Russia has been through much worse times than we are currently enduring and even they held together for the most part.
This country will stay together if for only the sake of college football
Quote from: David on January 02, 2009, 11:43:49 AM
Let us bow our heads in prayer to the flying spaghetti monster so that he may protect us.
RAmen.
May be all be blessed by his noodley appendage.
Quote from: Shwaz on January 02, 2009, 12:43:45 PM
This country will stay together if for only the sake of college football
Can you imagine if the BCS was in the hands of the Chinese? A weapon like that used carelessly would destroy the world!!
This forum is a prime example of why American can survive in places other nations might not. We have left and right, black and white, gay and straight, religious and atheist. We even have an angry Bosnian, and we all manage (for the most part) to get along, ast least, nothing more vicious than your run of the mill family gathering, anyway.
I would imagine that Florida would be joining the new Southern nation under this scenario as we would be cut off otherwise and many people still have Southern affinities. I cannot imagine that Mexico would in any way control the South though. They cant even control their own country.
Quote from: David on January 02, 2009, 11:43:49 AM
Let us bow our heads in prayer to the flying spaghetti monster so that he may protect us.
hahaha. The atheists are so clever. ::)
They could control it if they were backed by a stronger power such as Russia or China, who are strong but not yet all powerful, but if this is a future scenario, those two powers could be much stronger at that time and back and support Mexico in taking over the southern part of the U.S. What we are discussing is unthinkable but possible.
Heights Unknown
Am I allowed to print a poem, in this thread, that I myself wrote to Atheists regarding the possibility of God's existence? It is not provocative or disrespectful, but MIGHT make everyone think.
Heights Unknown
I still believe that even if we did break up, and foreign powers (such as Russia and China) tried to take over, we would fight to the teeth to prevent anyone else from running whatever is left; yes we would be fractured, but it would sort of be a friendly fracture....i.e., you run yours and we will run ours, but no one else will run what's left!
Heights Unknown
Quote from: RiversideGator on January 02, 2009, 04:32:57 PM
hahaha. The atheists are so clever. ::)
Nah, just a lil devil's advocate action there. Even from the religious point of view, there's a lot of countries that think God is on their side, so.....he's gotta pick one you know? Or not intervene at all.
How about this: If you're the first person to post a comment on here after their official time of death, it is now your sworn duty to find out which country is the higher power's favorite and get back to us. Make sure you post it under the breaking news section.
Perhaps we should have troops on the border...
http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_11444354
U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible
By Diana Washington Valdez / El Paso Times
Posted: 01/13/2009 03:49:34 PM MST
EL PASO - Mexico is one of two countries that "bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse," according to a report by the U.S. Joint Forces Command on worldwide security threats.
The command's "Joint Operating Environment (JOE 2008)" report, which contains projections of global threats and potential next wars, puts Pakistan on the same level as Mexico. "In terms of worse-case scenarios for the Joint Force and indeed the world, two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse: Pakistan and Mexico.
"The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and press by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."
The U.S. Joint Forces Command, based in Norfolk, Va., is one of the Defense Departments combat commands that includes members of the different military service branches, active and reserves, as well as civilian and contract employees. One of its key roles is to help transform the U.S. military's capabilities.
In the foreword, Marine Gen. J.N. Mattis, the USJFC commander, said "Predictions about the future are always risky ... Regardless, if we do not try to forecast the future, there is no doubt that we will be caught off guard as we strive to protect this experiment in democracy that we call America."
The report is one in a series focusing on Mexico's internal security problems, mostly stemming from drug violence and drug corruption. In recent weeks, the Department of Homeland Security and former U.S. drug czar Barry McCaffrey issued similar alerts about Mexico.
Despite such reports, El Pasoan Veronica Callaghan, a border business leader, said she keeps running into people in the region who "are in denial about what is happening in Mexico."
Last week, Mexican President Felipe Calderon instructed his embassy and consular officials to promote a positive image of Mexico.
The U.S. military report, which also analyzed economic situations in other countries, also noted that China has increased its influence in places where oil fields are present.
That makes you nervous the US would be so well served if Mexico were prosperous.
The violence on our border is getting worse. Non corrupt Mexican authorities have little or no control of their side of the border.
Some how I missed this post when it originally came out...
But the break up of the States remind me of the Phillip K Dick novel, Man in the High Castle.
In that book it was a break up of the nation after WWII (lost by the Allies), with the Western States, Central States, and Eastern States. The Western States controlled by Japan and the Eastern States controlled by Germany... the Central States left to a no man's land type Wild West...
Anyway, the point is, while anything is possible. This Russian Analyst should just go ahead and write a Sci-Fi novel.... After all is he proposing this is going to happen soon?
I'll agree the dissolution of the United States is not totally unthinkable (after all we can look to history to see the collapse of the HRE and the British Empire) but the way people have spread out over our country and retained their ties to there home area, I think the dissolution would be harder to imagine, at least in the near future. Think about the amount of Jacksonvillians who live in NYC and LA (heck even Portland at this point) and maintain there strong connections to their friends and family in Jacksonville (the Internet is making this easier everyday with Myspace/Facebook/Twitter). I guess you could say the same is true within European even with the separate countries but in reality they are moving in the opposite direction of what this guy is proposing for the US... through the EU they are kind of combining.
Also, his theory of the grouping seems absurd, although you can't really argue against the idea that other countries already have an "influence" over parts of those sections.
Quote
Anyway, the point is, while anything is possible. This Russian Analyst should just go ahead and write a Sci-Fi novel.... After all is he proposing this is going to happen soon?
Harry Turtledove and his Southern Victory/Timeline-191 series of trilogies and tetralogies come readily to mind. Great and prolific alternate history writer.
Although I'm wary to rule anything out, his stuff's more believable than this. Particularly the bits about different (seemingly randomly selected) geographical parts of the country being under various countries' influences. I don't see Canada mandating anything in the upper Midwest. I don't see Mexico in control of itself, let alone the entire Southern US.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 15, 2009, 09:02:39 AM
"The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and press by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."
So how about we just legalize drugs here? Then their biggest customer base is eliminated. Then, we commute every drug conviction to time served. Thereby we remove billions in penitentiary funding, and only imprison real criminals who harm other people. We also tax the hell out of drugs, and bring to an end our “war on drugs.†Savings from prisons and the cessation of our "war on drugs" plus additional cash flow aids in economic recovery to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. No more (piss poor depiction of) USA breaking up, and no fears of Mexico doing the same in the immediate future.
Quote from: CMG22 on January 15, 2009, 07:50:52 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 15, 2009, 09:02:39 AM
"The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and press by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."
So how about we just legalize drugs here? Then their biggest customer base is eliminated. Then, we commute every drug conviction to time served. Thereby we remove billions in penitentiary funding, and only imprison real criminals who harm other people. We also tax the hell out of drugs, and bring to an end our “war on drugs.†Savings from prisons and the cessation of our "war on drugs" plus additional cash flow aids in economic recovery to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. No more (piss poor depiction of) USA breaking up, and no fears of Mexico doing the same in the immediate future.
I agree with the legalization of marijauana then tax the hell out of it, restrict the amount that can be grown at home, similar to the homebrewing legislation. Other drugs, would have to think about it.
Not that I have ever smoked any of it!!!!
Quote from: civil42806 on January 15, 2009, 10:48:16 PM
Not that I have ever smoked any of it!!!!
Honestly, I have never smoked anything aside from a hookah a few times (after being dragged to Casbah or Laylas). I just don't see anything wrong with people choosing to cause themselves injury...
The Monroe Doctrine is an American Doctrine which, on December 2, 1823, stated that European powers were no longer allowed to colonize in the Americas, or interfere with the affairs of the newly independent states of the Americas. The United States would not interfere with existing colonies or their dependencies in the Western Hemisphere. However, any attempt by a European nation to oppress or control any nation in the western hemisphere would be seen as an act of aggression and the United States would intervene. Thus all peoples of the America's shall have the eternal right of self determination of their political future. The USA will back this up with guns, bombs, ships, planes and whatever it takes to keep others from dictating doctrine to ANY American state or bodies of states. Cuba is free to self government and the USA stood down from the home grown revolution. Ditto in Chile, Bolivia, Mexico etc...
THE MONROE DOCTRINE was a masterpiece freedom. No where else has such a large group of people, spread over so many thousands of miles, been held together by the right to walk away.
FREEDOM! IT'S THE BIRTHRIGHT OF EVERY CITIZEN OF THE AMERICA'S
except:
South Carolina
Mississippi
Florida
Alabama
Georgia
Texas
Tennessee
Arkansas
North Carolina
Virginia
Missouri
Arizona
Maryland...
It's obvious that the Russian dude isn't up on Lincoln Double Speak!
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x22/charliehart11/Mark_s_CampQuantrill.jpg)
OCKLAWAHA
DEO VINDICE!
BUT OF COURSE - We Don't have any REAL independence movements in our country... That only happens in 3Rd World Countries like "Colombia"... oops, this list no longer includes ANY of the Colombian groups of the past. Just so we don't feel left out, here are OUR OWN pet groups.
United States (Caribbean)
Puerto Rico
Political party: Puerto Rican Independence Party (PIP)
Pressure group: Puerto Rican Nationalist Party, Pro-Independence Universitarian Federation (FUPI), Union of Socialist Youth (UJS), Movimiento Independentista Nacional Hostosiano (MINH), Socialist Front (FS), National Congress for the Descolonizations (CONADE)
Rebel organization: Boricua Popular Army (Macheteros), Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (FALN)
U.S. Virgin Islands and British Virgin Islands
Political party: Caribbean Virgin Islands Independence Party and the Union of Virgin Islands Party
United States (North America)
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us%7Dak-ip.gif)Alaska
Political party: Alaskan Independence Party
(http://msunderestimated.com/NewBlackPantherPty.jpg)
Black Belt (U.S. region)
Pressure group: RNA, New Black Panther Party
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Flag_of_the_UNIA.svg/120px-Flag_of_the_UNIA.svg.png)
Proposed state: Republic of New Afrika
California
(http://www.nexternal.com/boyles/images/California%20Republic1.jpg)
Proposed state: California Republic
Pressure group: Californians for Independence (now defunct)
(http://www.indymedia.org/images/2007/12/898424.jpg)
Lakota Sioux
Pressure group: Lakotah Oyate
Proposed state: Republic of Lakotah
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Flag_of_Maine.svg/687px-Flag_of_Maine.svg.png)
Maine
Proposed state: Republic of Maine
Pressure group: Free Maine
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/47/North_Star_Republic_Flag.jpg/200px-North_Star_Republic_Flag.jpg)
Minnesota
Proposed state: People's Republic of the North Star
Pressure group: North Star Republic
(http://edward.oconnor.cx/2008/01/flags/ri.png)
New England
Pressure group: New England Confederation Alliance
(http://edward.oconnor.cx/2008/01/flags/nh.png)
New Hampshire
Pressure group: republicofnh.org
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/US_51-star_alternate_flag.svg/180px-US_51-star_alternate_flag.svg.png)
New York City
Pressure groups: Peter Vallone, Free City of Tri-Insula
(http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/knights/images/ny_flag.gif)
New York State
Pressure groups: Joseph Sawiki (Western Long Island), Randy Kuhl (Upstate)
(http://ilination.net/ili-flag-medium.png)
Proposed state: Independent Long Island
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Vinland_flag.gif)
Newfoundland, Northern New England, Atlantic Northeast, Middle Atlantic States, Ontario, Canadian prairies, Midwest, Northern Western United States, and Pacific Northwest (Areas of North America [excluding The South ] primarily inhabited by whites)--Vinland
Pressure group: Various white nationalist, white separatist, and Neo-Nazi groups
Proposed state: Vinland
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg92/ChickasawWarrior/Chocktah20flag.jpg)
Oklahoma
Pressure group: Indian Nations Republic of Oklahoma represented by the five largest Native American tribes in that state.
(http://republic-of-cascadia.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/doug_flag_flat3.jpg)
Pacific Northwest + British Columbia, Canada
Proposed state: Cascadia (usually associated with political protest, not actual independence)
Pressure group: Republic of Cascadia, Cascadian Independence Project
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/southernpartyfl/BLOGS/2008-05-10-SPFLPolkBattleFlagatBeac.png)
The South
Pressure group: League of the South
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg/600px-Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg.png)
Political party: Southern Party
Proposed state: Confederate States of America
See also: Neo-confederate movement
(http://www.stainlessbanners.com/photos/sc-battle.jpg)
South Carolina
Proposed state: Republic of South Carolina
Pressure group: SC League of the South
(http://americancivilwar.com/statepic/tx_flag.gif)
Texas
Proposed state: Republic of Texas
Pressure group: Texas Secession
(http://www.nerepublican.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/free-vermont-flag1.jpg)
Vermont
Proposed state: Green Mountain Republic of Vermont
Pressure group: Second Vermont Republic
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Flag_of_Aztlan.svg/300px-Flag_of_Aztlan.svg.png)Aztlan/Southwestern United States
Proposed state: Aztlan, dependent on Mexico
Pressure groups: Chicano nationalism, La Voz de Aztlan, the Mexica Movement and the MeCha and La Raza activist groups.
OCKLAWAHA
Your UNRECONSTRUCTED Southron