Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside---January-2025/i-ZJqM4QW/0/NVZTCjPhcqnSpGvpQfczbvvKJQDFqRpFPHfXpS5hR/L/20250125_122833-L.jpg)
A year after a devastating fire destroyed the development before it was set to open, the RISE Doro multifamily project is under construction again.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/rebuilding-rise-doro/
Did this receive city funding the first time, and is now receiving additional funds?
Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on January 27, 2025, 08:31:54 AM
Did this receive city funding the first time, and is now receiving additional funds?
The original project was to receive a REV grant (property tax rebate). That never happened as the project never went online.
The new project will receive $1mm from the city to satisfy the lien for the previous demo (COJ paid for an emergency demo as soon as the fire was extinguished, so the bill is essentially forgiven), a larger REV grant (construction costs are higher, so I believe the REV grants are essentially the same %, just the dollar amount increased to match the higher construction costs) and now incentives to keep around a 1/3 of the units as workforce housing (a rebate to subsidize rents). Previously about 1/3 of the units were going to be managed by a rental management company and leased as STRs (STR would have resulted in higher rents than long-term leases). They essentially swapped out the STRs for workforce housing.
I am glad to see construction moving forward again....Does anyone know if they will use the same materials? hopefully they will use steel or concrete. I can't imagine them using wood again.
Quote from: Jones518 on January 27, 2025, 06:25:40 PM
I am glad to see construction moving forward again....Does anyone know if they will use the same materials? hopefully they will use steel or concrete. I can't imagine them using wood again.
In the photo essay, there's a lot of lumber stacked up.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside---January-2025/i-3QCP2bC/0/MvB5fhCMss4grpWN7bPb9nHw5qpqcqgMWt7PGrWsn/L/20250125_122818-L.jpg)
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 27, 2025, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Jones518 on January 27, 2025, 06:25:40 PM
I am glad to see construction moving forward again....Does anyone know if they will use the same materials? hopefully they will use steel or concrete. I can't imagine them using wood again.
In the photo essay, there's a lot of lumber stacked up.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside---January-2025/i-3QCP2bC/0/MvB5fhCMss4grpWN7bPb9nHw5qpqcqgMWt7PGrWsn/L/20250125_122818-L.jpg)
Ahhh, I see. I hope not... there should have been some sort of requirement to build with sturdier materials if they want to receive incentives. :-\
Of course they are using wood again. That's how the structure was designed. Any suggestions otherwise was just after fire lip service from the developer.
Is the rebuild the same as the original build? I thought it was ugly but that is just my opinion. If they had trouble renting up, maybe they took some hints from the market place?
Its basically the same except a significant amount of the units will be workforce housing.
I'd rather see the same materials with workforce housing added than upgraded materials with $3k rents and STRs.
Leasing has started (again!) https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2025/10/22/rise-doro-begins-leasing-apartments-nearly-2-years-after-devastating-fire-just-days-before-scheduled-2024-opening/
After the fire, I thought for sure this project would wither and die, resulting in another empty lot. Great work by all those involved and we should add these developers to the short list of people who can actually construct large scale projects in/near downtown. Maybe they are interested in taking on some other challenges.
Quote from: Joey Mackey on October 22, 2025, 12:55:04 PM
Leasing has started (again!) https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2025/10/22/rise-doro-begins-leasing-apartments-nearly-2-years-after-devastating-fire-just-days-before-scheduled-2024-opening/
After the fire, I thought for sure this project would wither and die, resulting in another empty lot. Great work by all those involved and we should add these developers to the short list of people who can actually construct large scale projects in/near downtown. Maybe they are interested in taking on some other challenges.
I can say that both the administration and DIA worked really hard to keep this penciling and that may have given the developer more confidence than they might have had a few years back, but this really speaks to their commitment to the project and getting it done. Great work by their team! And that in turn reflects how much more confident developers are in Downtown projects than in the past. Good mojo all around!
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2025, 10:46:11 AM
Quote from: Joey Mackey on October 22, 2025, 12:55:04 PM
Leasing has started (again!) https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2025/10/22/rise-doro-begins-leasing-apartments-nearly-2-years-after-devastating-fire-just-days-before-scheduled-2024-opening/
After the fire, I thought for sure this project would wither and die, resulting in another empty lot. Great work by all those involved and we should add these developers to the short list of people who can actually construct large scale projects in/near downtown. Maybe they are interested in taking on some other challenges.
I can say that both the administration and DIA worked really hard to keep this penciling and that may have given the developer more confidence than they might have had a few years back, but this really speaks to their commitment to the project and getting it done. Great work by their team! And that in turn reflects how much more confident developers are in Downtown projects than in the past. Good mojo all around!
I'd like to see some of that confidence to go into the Southbank around River's Edge. The lack of activity, or at least perceived lack, is a little brow raising.
Quote from: acme54321 on October 23, 2025, 11:32:32 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2025, 10:46:11 AM
Quote from: Joey Mackey on October 22, 2025, 12:55:04 PM
Leasing has started (again!) https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2025/10/22/rise-doro-begins-leasing-apartments-nearly-2-years-after-devastating-fire-just-days-before-scheduled-2024-opening/
After the fire, I thought for sure this project would wither and die, resulting in another empty lot. Great work by all those involved and we should add these developers to the short list of people who can actually construct large scale projects in/near downtown. Maybe they are interested in taking on some other challenges.
I can say that both the administration and DIA worked really hard to keep this penciling and that may have given the developer more confidence than they might have had a few years back, but this really speaks to their commitment to the project and getting it done. Great work by their team! And that in turn reflects how much more confident developers are in Downtown projects than in the past. Good mojo all around!
I'd like to see some of that confidence to go into the Southbank around Rivertown. The lack of activity, or at least perceived lack, is a little brow raising.
I think you mean River's Edge...i think we will see more activity in the River's edge area soon... developers may be stalling and waiting for rates to drop or until financing conditions improve especially when financial experts and the feds are pointing to more rate cuts. We will see....
To have townhouses with folks living in a few units, parks, and other infrastructure projects wrapping up..that's better than what it has been for nearly the 2 decades after the JEA generating station was tore down (vacant lots)....
DCPS literally just turned down an offer for Fleet landing to buy their building and redevelop that site. (A site next door to Rivers edge).
I believe we are very close to more activity in the Riversedge/southbank area especially with all the activity in San Marco and the riverfront....its only a matter of time at this point. The area is ripe for development.
Overall, I like what's happening downtown right now. Glad to see projects reaching new milestones getting closer to the finish line. It will be interesting to see how it all comes together over the next 5 or so years, with Many developments coming online in the next year or two. MOSH 2.0, stadium of the future, Four Seasons, new Jags headquarters, UF's graduate campus, Wholefoods, Gateway Jax's developments....the list goes on...there's real momentum downtown..
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2025, 10:46:11 AM
Quote from: Joey Mackey on October 22, 2025, 12:55:04 PM
Leasing has started (again!) https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2025/10/22/rise-doro-begins-leasing-apartments-nearly-2-years-after-devastating-fire-just-days-before-scheduled-2024-opening/
After the fire, I thought for sure this project would wither and die, resulting in another empty lot. Great work by all those involved and we should add these developers to the short list of people who can actually construct large scale projects in/near downtown. Maybe they are interested in taking on some other challenges.
I can say that both the administration and DIA worked really hard to keep this penciling and that may have given the developer more confidence than they might have had a few years back, but this really speaks to their commitment to the project and getting it done. Great work by their team! And that in turn reflects how much more confident developers are in Downtown projects than in the past. Good mojo all around!
I recall before the fire, Doro was slow renting up. What are people hearing now? I think between the building's design and location, it still would not be an ideal setup, but that's just my opinion.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 24, 2025, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2025, 10:46:11 AM
Quote from: Joey Mackey on October 22, 2025, 12:55:04 PM
Leasing has started (again!) https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2025/10/22/rise-doro-begins-leasing-apartments-nearly-2-years-after-devastating-fire-just-days-before-scheduled-2024-opening/
After the fire, I thought for sure this project would wither and die, resulting in another empty lot. Great work by all those involved and we should add these developers to the short list of people who can actually construct large scale projects in/near downtown. Maybe they are interested in taking on some other challenges.
I can say that both the administration and DIA worked really hard to keep this penciling and that may have given the developer more confidence than they might have had a few years back, but this really speaks to their commitment to the project and getting it done. Great work by their team! And that in turn reflects how much more confident developers are in Downtown projects than in the past. Good mojo all around!
I recall before the fire, Doro was slow renting up. What are people hearing now? I think between the building's design and location, it still would not be an ideal setup, but that's just my opinion.
They just started leasing and first move-ins are not until Spring 2026 so way too early to tell. They were 11% preleased at the time of the fire with move-ins starting that week which is about on-par with where other new communities in the area (UTW, Corner on Main, Artea) were during the same stage of their construction.
I will note their rents definitely seem a little steep with most studios at $1600+, 1 beds at $1700+, and 2 beds at $2200+ according to their website. This is a little more expensive than their closest competitor, UTW, which is 36% leased and about on par with what Artea and One Riverside are charging. Their lease-up will be interesting to monitor
Rise Doro is supposed to have its first residents moving in today. They did a tremendous job with the interiors and amenities (see photos below). This is a dream housing scenario for a lot of young professionals, especially ones new to Jax that are trying to meet friends and have an active social life.
It's still early, but their pre-leasing does not look promising. I posted this in another thread last week, but it appears as if Rise has only leased 2 of the 98 units available for move in on February 6th and 4 of the 127 units available on May 1st. They are offering 2 free months rent and a $1k credit. It does not look like any additional units have been leased since my post last week too. Here is their map of available units: https://risedoro.com/siteplan/
Intuition closing and the stadium/Daily's closure will no doubt hamper their leasing efforts, but I also wonder how much Downtown's office vacancy issues impact things. Probably sound like a broken record, but imo Downtown cannot simply build housing and draw residents without a strong office market. Especially with rents like this. I think there has been some school of thought in Jax leadership that remote workers and digital nomads would move to Downtown Jax in large numbers, but frankly Downtown does not have the food scene, nightlife, cultural offerings, etc to compete with the dozen or so other places in Florida and the Sunbelt that are more appealing to this demographic.
I hope the new DIA director reconsiders Downtown's recent strategy of prioritizing housing development while largely sidelining the office market.
Full gallery here: https://risedoro.com/gallery/
(https://risedoro.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/10_960_E_Adams_St_Jacksonville_FL_32202-Foyer-IMG_2411.jpg)
(https://risedoro.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/11_960_E_Adams_St_Jacksonville_FL_32202-Foyer-IMG_2444-1.jpg)
(https://risedoro.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/03_960_E_Adams_St_Jacksonville_FL_32202-Foyer-IMG_2396-1.jpg)
^I hope a lesson that we take away from both Rise Doro's struggles to lease, and Intuition's Departure, is that it does us more harm than good to mislead and burn earnest investors with nonsense like the DVI reports, leaving them holding the bag when the emperor turns out to not be wearing any clothes.
Look at the DVI's reports from the time that RISE purchased the Doro land, you can't blame for them thinking that the area was set to explode. As a city, we're out there positioning projects like Lot J, the Shipyards, and the Landing redevelopment as done-deal "pipeline" projects, when there wasn't even a redevelopment agreement in place for any of the land. It's bad business.
(https://snipboard.io/QmfO6x.jpg)
(https://snipboard.io/wfgXA8.jpg)
(https://snipboard.io/zmDroj.jpg)
The best part about that report is arguably the most catalytic project for the city, Gateway Jax, isn't even on their radar yet. Save for the four season (which isnt going to really do anything for the city as a whole) it's all still a pipe dream.
Fantastic point Ken. I do think there is a general lack of understanding market dynamics, deficiencies, and what it takes to create a truly sustainable downtown among many leaders in Jax. There seems to be a belief that you simply build residential anywhere and people will come.
Union Terminal Warehouse is a good example. Of the 228 total units, 132 are currently available, despite the project having been open for almost a year. The property is offering two months free rent plus a $1,000 incentive. And since some of the occupied units are affordable/workforce housing, the vacancy rate for market-rate units is likely even higher than 58%.
https://www.utwjax.com/apartments/fl/jacksonville/floor-plans#k=47714
By contrast, Vista Brooklyn has only 20 available units out of 308 and does not appear to be offering major leasing incentives. 220 Riverside has 18 available units out of 282, though it is offering some incentives. Clearly, there is market demand in Brooklyn, likely because these projects are within walking distance of multiple employers and are located in a far more walkable, active, amenity rich area.
Jax may simply be adding more housing than the downtown market can realistically absorb right now, especially without enough employers to support it and especially when some of it isn't within walking distance of jobs. You can keep delivering new units, but if there aren't more jobs and people downtown every day, demand only goes so far. Gateway Jax has an unreal land assemblage, great vision, and is executing the vision already, but I still believe the project only truly succeeds is if UF does follow through and brings the fully promised campus online. I just don't know where else the residents come from.
In summary, I think Jax's full effort should be focused on bringing more employment downtown and making sure the UF project is fully realized.
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 01:49:32 PMn summary, I think Jax's full effort should be focused on bringing more employment downtown and making sure the UF project is fully realized.
Fully agree.
And would also add that in addition to focusing on bringing more employment downtown, we need to focus on
keeping existing jobs downtown as well.
RE: Union Terminal being half-empty while Vista Brooklyn is nearly full. Wonder if that would be any different had JSO not moved 740 employees from the CBD to Brooklyn. Meanwhile, DCPS is pulling 600 jobs from downtown and relocating their headquarters to Baymeadows.
These are public-sector jobs actively being pulled from the CBD, at the same time we're investing billions into trying to create a more vibrant central core.
It would be challenging to administer, but I do wish their was some "incentive" mechanism we could leverage to protect existing business within the CBD while we wait for all of this new development to come online. 2028 seems to be around the time that a lot of things are going to finish. In the interim, it would be great to offer small retention grants to businesses considering relocation, and forgivable stopgap loans for businesses like Intuition and Bellwether that are just barely getting by.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 06, 2026, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 01:49:32 PMn summary, I think Jax's full effort should be focused on bringing more employment downtown and making sure the UF project is fully realized.
It would be challenging to administer, but I do wish their was some "incentive" mechanism we could leverage to protect existing business within the CBD while we wait for all of this new development to come online. 2028 seems to be around the time that a lot of things are going to finish. In the interim, it would be great to offer small retention grants to businesses considering relocation, and forgivable stopgap loans for businesses like Intuition and Bellwether that are just barely getting by.
I had the exact thought when Intuition announced their closure and love it in concept. It's such a slippery slope though where the DIA and/or City Council are forced to pick winners and losers. If you give the grant to Intuition and Bellwether and don't offer one to Dos Gatos or Cowford Chophouse, do they get angry and threaten to close too?
I don't have any inside info, but from reading Ben's closure email, my takeaway was that the decision reflected a lack of long term confidence more than short term cash flow. I think it ultimately comes down to the leaders of Downtown Jax demonstrating that there is light at the end of the tunnel for businesses currently struggling.
Rather than offer the cash grant to individual businesses, maybe a more equitable way to deal with the issue is to invest more money into programming special events in the next few years. With no Jags and concerts at Daily's, this is strongly needed anyways. Imo, DIA/DVI should come out with some kind of special branded events program to instill confidence in existing businesses. One thought is to have a concert series at Vystar Ballpark. If Black Sabbath could play at Wolfson Park back in the 70's, surely some acts could play at Vystar now.
I revert to investing in infrastructure rather than incentives. This includes streetscapes, security, green spaces, public art, urban core transit lines that loop the urban core and connect downtown to surrounding neighborhoods, etc.
If we are going to do incentives, instead of handing out tens and hundreds of millions to big projects, give those millions to small business that will employ more people and create granular character, energy and buzz that draws people in.
Do all of the above in a thoughtful, planned way, and Downtown and surroundings might actually take off.
Money for the stadium, Four Seasons, Brooklyn and Southbank developments, more apartments and hotels is a waste. None of these are going to sustainably bring more people to Downtown or make it more interesting. And, none would need incentives if there was already existing excitement before they arrived.
Gateway gets this on some level by promoting lots of street level retail and restaurants with a dose of nightlife and not just building apartments, hotels, offices. These smaller deals are what will drive the success of the bigger ones.
DIA has it all upside down. Small leads to big, not the other way around. You would think after 60 years of Downtown failing by betting on "mega projects" going back to the conversion of the riverfront from shipyards and port docks to mid-century urban renewal projects and massive block-reinvention programs like the River City Renaissance and Better Jacksonville Plan, we would have learned to try a different approach. Yet, here we are doing more of the same.
You can't force Downtown success. It needs to be organic. That requires an uprising by the little guys.
As we are aware, there's a new Leader at DIA; email, forward, zap these thoughts, opinions, etc. to him (if you haven't already done so). Someone recently stated in a thread and/or post, that "The Jaxson's" voice, nowadays is being MORE heard and considered at City Hall; they cannot do it alone (though they may think so). Use this wonderful medium as a line and voice (and advocacy) between City Hall (and DIA) and the Public (if this is currently not being effectuated).
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 02:48:30 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 06, 2026, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 01:49:32 PMn summary, I think Jax's full effort should be focused on bringing more employment downtown and making sure the UF project is fully realized.
It would be challenging to administer, but I do wish their was some "incentive" mechanism we could leverage to protect existing business within the CBD while we wait for all of this new development to come online. 2028 seems to be around the time that a lot of things are going to finish. In the interim, it would be great to offer small retention grants to businesses considering relocation, and forgivable stopgap loans for businesses like Intuition and Bellwether that are just barely getting by.
I had the exact thought when Intuition announced their closure and love it in concept. It's such a slippery slope though where the DIA and/or City Council are forced to pick winners and losers. If you give the grant to Intuition and Bellwether and don't offer one to Dos Gatos or Cowford Chophouse, do they get angry and threaten to close too?
I don't have any inside info, but from reading Ben's closure email, my takeaway was that the decision reflected a lack of long term confidence more than short term cash flow. I think it ultimately comes down to the leaders of Downtown Jax demonstrating that there is light at the end of the tunnel for businesses currently struggling.
Apparently, the city might be considering exactly that to keep EverBank from following Citizens to the suburbs.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/sources-city-offering-everbank-nearly-10m-stay-downtown-amid-safety-concerns/TPGHZHEL3ZHTTA7EZYFUSQZNX4/#j1byb0gy0abmgfha36t91kxi56cpn07s
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 07, 2026, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 02:48:30 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 06, 2026, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 01:49:32 PMn summary, I think Jax's full effort should be focused on bringing more employment downtown and making sure the UF project is fully realized.
It would be challenging to administer, but I do wish their was some "incentive" mechanism we could leverage to protect existing business within the CBD while we wait for all of this new development to come online. 2028 seems to be around the time that a lot of things are going to finish. In the interim, it would be great to offer small retention grants to businesses considering relocation, and forgivable stopgap loans for businesses like Intuition and Bellwether that are just barely getting by.
I had the exact thought when Intuition announced their closure and love it in concept. It's such a slippery slope though where the DIA and/or City Council are forced to pick winners and losers. If you give the grant to Intuition and Bellwether and don't offer one to Dos Gatos or Cowford Chophouse, do they get angry and threaten to close too?
I don't have any inside info, but from reading Ben's closure email, my takeaway was that the decision reflected a lack of long term confidence more than short term cash flow. I think it ultimately comes down to the leaders of Downtown Jax demonstrating that there is light at the end of the tunnel for businesses currently struggling.
Apparently, the city might be considering exactly that to keep EverBank from following Citizens to the suburbs.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/sources-city-offering-everbank-nearly-10m-stay-downtown-amid-safety-concerns/TPGHZHEL3ZHTTA7EZYFUSQZNX4/#j1byb0gy0abmgfha36t91kxi56cpn07s
Spend that $10 million to MAKE DT safe instead of cutting a check to Citizens.
Quote from: vicupstate on February 08, 2026, 11:20:30 AM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 07, 2026, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 02:48:30 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 06, 2026, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 01:49:32 PMn summary, I think Jax's full effort should be focused on bringing more employment downtown and making sure the UF project is fully realized.
It would be challenging to administer, but I do wish their was some "incentive" mechanism we could leverage to protect existing business within the CBD while we wait for all of this new development to come online. 2028 seems to be around the time that a lot of things are going to finish. In the interim, it would be great to offer small retention grants to businesses considering relocation, and forgivable stopgap loans for businesses like Intuition and Bellwether that are just barely getting by.
I had the exact thought when Intuition announced their closure and love it in concept. It's such a slippery slope though where the DIA and/or City Council are forced to pick winners and losers. If you give the grant to Intuition and Bellwether and don't offer one to Dos Gatos or Cowford Chophouse, do they get angry and threaten to close too?
I don't have any inside info, but from reading Ben's closure email, my takeaway was that the decision reflected a lack of long term confidence more than short term cash flow. I think it ultimately comes down to the leaders of Downtown Jax demonstrating that there is light at the end of the tunnel for businesses currently struggling.
Apparently, the city might be considering exactly that to keep EverBank from following Citizens to the suburbs.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/sources-city-offering-everbank-nearly-10m-stay-downtown-amid-safety-concerns/TPGHZHEL3ZHTTA7EZYFUSQZNX4/#j1byb0gy0abmgfha36t91kxi56cpn07s
Spend that $10 million to MAKE DT safe instead of cutting a check to Citizens.
The Council Members complaining that subsidies and incentives are still necessary in the CBD are the same Council Members who stripped homeless services and affordable housing out of the mayor's budget. Leading to truly insane, self-defeating situations like this. The DIA and city need to concentrate their full, undivided efforts on cleaning up and building out a vibrant CBD, hospitable to office workers, residents, and private developers. Everything else - Southbank and Brooklyn in particular - can wait. As Walter White famously said, half measures don't work. Get it right once, instead of another fifty years of start and stop. Broken record after all these years, but I'd take that $8 million in cash that we earmarked for a hospital's remote boutique hotel on the Southbank and invest it into JWJP and the surrounding blocks. And work outward from there.
Quote from: vicupstate on February 08, 2026, 11:20:30 AM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 07, 2026, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 02:48:30 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 06, 2026, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 01:49:32 PMn summary, I think Jax's full effort should be focused on bringing more employment downtown and making sure the UF project is fully realized.
It would be challenging to administer, but I do wish their was some "incentive" mechanism we could leverage to protect existing business within the CBD while we wait for all of this new development to come online. 2028 seems to be around the time that a lot of things are going to finish. In the interim, it would be great to offer small retention grants to businesses considering relocation, and forgivable stopgap loans for businesses like Intuition and Bellwether that are just barely getting by.
I had the exact thought when Intuition announced their closure and love it in concept. It's such a slippery slope though where the DIA and/or City Council are forced to pick winners and losers. If you give the grant to Intuition and Bellwether and don't offer one to Dos Gatos or Cowford Chophouse, do they get angry and threaten to close too?
I don't have any inside info, but from reading Ben's closure email, my takeaway was that the decision reflected a lack of long term confidence more than short term cash flow. I think it ultimately comes down to the leaders of Downtown Jax demonstrating that there is light at the end of the tunnel for businesses currently struggling.
Apparently, the city might be considering exactly that to keep EverBank from following Citizens to the suburbs.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/sources-city-offering-everbank-nearly-10m-stay-downtown-amid-safety-concerns/TPGHZHEL3ZHTTA7EZYFUSQZNX4/#j1byb0gy0abmgfha36t91kxi56cpn07s
Spend that $10 million to MAKE DT safe instead of cutting a check to Citizens.
Was thinking the same thing. Same council that cut taxes and now are too broke. same council that compares town center to downtown when considering incentives. Same council that follows DumpyTrumpynomics. God help us.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 08, 2026, 11:54:57 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on February 08, 2026, 11:20:30 AM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 07, 2026, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 02:48:30 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 06, 2026, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 01:49:32 PMn summary, I think Jax's full effort should be focused on bringing more employment downtown and making sure the UF project is fully realized.
It would be challenging to administer, but I do wish their was some "incentive" mechanism we could leverage to protect existing business within the CBD while we wait for all of this new development to come online. 2028 seems to be around the time that a lot of things are going to finish. In the interim, it would be great to offer small retention grants to businesses considering relocation, and forgivable stopgap loans for businesses like Intuition and Bellwether that are just barely getting by.
I had the exact thought when Intuition announced their closure and love it in concept. It's such a slippery slope though where the DIA and/or City Council are forced to pick winners and losers. If you give the grant to Intuition and Bellwether and don't offer one to Dos Gatos or Cowford Chophouse, do they get angry and threaten to close too?
I don't have any inside info, but from reading Ben's closure email, my takeaway was that the decision reflected a lack of long term confidence more than short term cash flow. I think it ultimately comes down to the leaders of Downtown Jax demonstrating that there is light at the end of the tunnel for businesses currently struggling.
Apparently, the city might be considering exactly that to keep EverBank from following Citizens to the suburbs.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/sources-city-offering-everbank-nearly-10m-stay-downtown-amid-safety-concerns/TPGHZHEL3ZHTTA7EZYFUSQZNX4/#j1byb0gy0abmgfha36t91kxi56cpn07s
Spend that $10 million to MAKE DT safe instead of cutting a check to Citizens.
The Council Members complaining that subsidies and incentives are still necessary in the CBD are the same Council Members who stripped homeless services and affordable housing out of the mayor's budget. Leading to truly insane, self-defeating situations like this. The DIA and city need to concentrate their full, undivided efforts on cleaning up and building out a vibrant CBD, hospitable to office workers, residents, and private developers. Everything else - Southbank and Brooklyn in particular - can wait. As Walter White famously said, half measures don't work. Get it right once, instead of another fifty years of start and stop. Broken record after all these years, but I'd take that $8 million in cash that we earmarked for a hospital's remote boutique hotel on the Southbank and invest it into JWJP and the surrounding blocks. And work outward from there.
This. 50% of the problem is lack of followthrough on the good projects and good decisions. Even when we aren't doing something as egregious as, say, demolishing the Landing, we're not continuing to invest in the things that work. Makes it tough to ever get out of the hole even when things are on an upswing like they are now.
I like riverfront plaza, but add up the price of demolition, lost property tax revenues, cost of new construction, etc and what is the total we have sunk into Phase 1 of a riverfront park? (Albeit, a world class one!)
I think it is interesting because the Landing was perfect shell for the "Food Hall" craze. it got demolished right before it could have become an "Armature Works" type place. Just insane.
Have we spent $50 million+ so far? What would $25 million have done for the Landing? Renovated entire thing easily.
Quote from: Jankelope on February 11, 2026, 10:13:03 AM
I like riverfront plaza, but add up the price of demolition, lost property tax revenues, cost of new construction, etc and what is the total we have sunk into Phase 1 of a riverfront park? (Albeit, a world class one!)
I think it is interesting because the Landing was perfect shell for the "Food Hall" craze. it got demolished right before it could have become an "Armature Works" type place. Just insane.
Have we spent $50 million+ so far? What would $25 million have done for the Landing? Renovated entire thing easily.
We were well into the food hall craze when the Landing was demo'd. The Jaxon posted this article and probably others too. https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/so-jax-may-be-the-only-city-to-demolish-its-landing/
I know before demo I mentioned multiple times that The Landing would be far more successful if modified with more outdoor seating, better views, and a better tenant mix. My pitch was to make it a Best of Jax type place and get many of the good restaurants from the beach or other parts of town to have a stall there. I still think that would have been one of the best bang for your buck type projects the city could do downtown.
Speaking of Riverfront Plaza and active food/dining on the water, what is the status of the Beer Garden?
Tearing down the Landing set downtown back by a decade. It was one of the dumbest DT development decisions ever made in Jax history by people elected to serve locally. As predicted back then, we'll spend more than $100 million on Riverfront Plaza when its all said and the space will still stimulate less consistent foot traffic. What should have been a simple retrofit of an already active space ended up being a big opportunity loss. It will take some time to regenerate what was lost, so it will be good for the council to stop looking at the bone headed moves in a vacuum.
Quote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 09:37:29 AMIt's still early, but their pre-leasing does not look promising. I posted this in another thread last week, but it appears as if Rise has only leased 2 of the 98 units available for move in on February 6th and 4 of the 127 units available on May 1st. They are offering 2 free months rent and a $1k credit. It does not look like any additional units have been leased since my post last week too. Here is their map of available units: https://risedoro.com/siteplan/
Been about a month since this last update on Rise. Leasing does not look like it has picked up at all. 225 units are still available. It appears that only 2 or 3 units that were available for move in in early February are currently occupied. Nearly a full month after opening. It also looks like only 2 units are reserved for the later move in on May 1st.
I also posted a month ago that Union Terminal had 132 units available out of 228 units. Since then, only 3 additional units have been booked, so there are still 129 units available now.
Not ideal.
Tsk, tsk, tsk; bad news bears. What seems to be the problem with the brakes screeching to a halt for people renting/purchasing these units/homes downtown or in the Urban Core?
Quote from: heights unknown on March 04, 2026, 11:13:21 AMTsk, tsk, tsk; bad news bears. What seems to be the problem with the brakes screeching to a halt for people renting/purchasing these units/homes downtown or in the Urban Core?
Quick answer, there's not enough to do in that size of downtown to draw in a crowd. Plus the fire doesn't help. Perception of a fire not too long ago will be a turn off imo. But give it time, as more people visit the VyStar Arena and baseball grounds, the more it will be aware of its completion and would consider moving in. They should really keep pushing marketing to get the word out that they're almost done. And have a top notch commercial space to draw in folks. They're basically in three middle of no where.
No other residential development outside of the 4Seasons and that's still a year away with only 26 condos. Kinda feels like Brooklyn all over again. In the end it will pay off, someone had to be the first and we def need Lot J to kick off. I don't really take what Mark Lamping says for face value. Sometimes it's a bit misleading, but Lot J seems to be a ways away. Hoping I'm wrong and it's not too long. You'd figure that they have something they're working on now, present it Q4 this year/ Q1 next year and go through the process.
Outside of the Jags, another proposal for residential dev has came up in that area in what seems like the most awkward location getting in and out. Good luck to anyone who chooses to live there. Just my opinion.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2026/feb/06/texas-company-buys-tailgate-bar-parking-near-everbank-stadium/ (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2026/feb/06/texas-company-buys-tailgate-bar-parking-near-everbank-stadium/)
Quote from: CityLife on March 04, 2026, 11:06:06 AMQuote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 09:37:29 AMIt's still early, but their pre-leasing does not look promising. I posted this in another thread last week, but it appears as if Rise has only leased 2 of the 98 units available for move in on February 6th and 4 of the 127 units available on May 1st. They are offering 2 free months rent and a $1k credit. It does not look like any additional units have been leased since my post last week too. Here is their map of available units: https://risedoro.com/siteplan/
Been about a month since this last update on Rise. Leasing does not look like it has picked up at all. 225 units are still available. It appears that only 2 or 3 units that were available for move in in early February are currently occupied. Nearly a full month after opening. It also looks like only 2 units are reserved for the later move in on May 1st.
I also posted a month ago that Union Terminal had 132 units available out of 228 units. Since then, only 3 additional units have been booked, so there are still 129 units available now.
Not ideal.
It's known that the rental market is currently softer than anticipated.
Quote from: fsu813 on March 04, 2026, 02:22:04 PMQuote from: CityLife on March 04, 2026, 11:06:06 AMQuote from: CityLife on February 06, 2026, 09:37:29 AMIt's still early, but their pre-leasing does not look promising. I posted this in another thread last week, but it appears as if Rise has only leased 2 of the 98 units available for move in on February 6th and 4 of the 127 units available on May 1st. They are offering 2 free months rent and a $1k credit. It does not look like any additional units have been leased since my post last week too. Here is their map of available units: https://risedoro.com/siteplan/
Been about a month since this last update on Rise. Leasing does not look like it has picked up at all. 225 units are still available. It appears that only 2 or 3 units that were available for move in in early February are currently occupied. Nearly a full month after opening. It also looks like only 2 units are reserved for the later move in on May 1st.
I also posted a month ago that Union Terminal had 132 units available out of 228 units. Since then, only 3 additional units have been booked, so there are still 129 units available now.
Not ideal.
It's known that the rental market is currently softer than anticipated.
Known by whom? Discussed publicly where? It is known that the U2C is worthless, but it is still discussed on here frequently.
No surprise to me on Doro.
As I have noted before, poor architecture/layout, high rents, bad location and orientation plus a softer rental market may add up to bad news for building occupancy. Just because you build it doesn't mean they will come.
Rise has other properties so this won't put them under but I could see them flipping this at a loss (Khan would possibly jump on a fire sale, no pun intended, given his command of the greater area) to not waste a lot of time on something that may take years to be successful. I am also guessing interest rates increased between the time they committed to this project and its completion skewing any expected results thus adding to any pain.
What happened to the ~100 AirBnb's? Lmfaoooo
The lure of this property for RISE was Lot J. They built it under the assumption that the city and Jags would be standing up the amenities nextdoor necessary to justify the high rents.
It's the same reason that MOSH moved across the river, the Orleck folks brought the ship to the Shipyards, and JTA ran a $60 million clown car line down to the sports district.
Broken record, but absent amenities (a managed Sports & Entertainment district like literally every other major city has stood up or is actively standing up alongside their new arena/stadium developments), this whole area is going to flounder.
Why in the world would someone spend Doro rents or Four Seasons room night dollars to stay in a sea of asphalt?
Agreed on Rise getting burned by the Lot J deal.
I think the Four Seasons may still do ok without Lot J because it will be an entirely self contained experience where guests don't ever have to leave the site. They also have such a healthy incentive package, that will presumably let them offer rates on the extreme low end for a Four Seasons. The ability to stay at a Four Seasons property for $300-$350 a night will potentially draw in local and regional guests. It's an affordable location for high-end small corporate retreats or conferences. It's a desirable spot for athletes training or rehabbing. And will be a go to spot for visitors of sporting events and concerts. But DT Jax is not really a $500-$1k a night hotel market, so it will be very interesting to see how they handle the rates.
I personally think a JW would have been a better fit for the DT Jax market and done more for downtown overall, but am more optimistic that Khan can make this succeed than some other projects DT.
This kind of development is complicated because "If you build it they will come" isn't always immediately true. Someone has to assume more risk on the front end. The real equation is "if you build enough of it close enough they will come" and that's a lot harder to do all at the same time.
Rise DORO will undoubtedly be fine in the long run, as I do believe that it is only a matter of time before we have a new Lot J-esque proposal, + whatever will be the Fairgrounds. I am hoping that the Fairgrounds isn't just more parking.
Quote from: CityLife on March 05, 2026, 10:07:45 AMAgreed on Rise getting burned by the Lot J deal.
I think the Four Seasons may still do ok without Lot J because it will be an entirely self contained experience where guests don't ever have to leave the site. They also have such a healthy incentive package, that will presumably let them offer rates on the extreme low end for a Four Seasons. The ability to stay at a Four Seasons property for $300-$350 a night will potentially draw in local and regional guests. It's an affordable location for high-end small corporate retreats or conferences. It's a desirable spot for athletes training or rehabbing. And will be a go to spot for visitors of sporting events and concerts. But DT Jax is not really a $500-$1k a night hotel market, so it will be very interesting to see how they handle the rates.
I personally think a JW would have been a better fit for the DT Jax market and done more for downtown overall, but am more optimistic that Khan can make this succeed than some other projects DT.
You're probably right on Four Seasons specifically. I used to do a lot of work with Visit Jax, and it was pretty crazy to see how many bed tax dollars for downtown events ended up at the PVIC and Ritz. Hopefully having a high-end hotel on the river claws some of those dollars back.
On JW, that's actually my prediction for the Gateway Jax hotel flag at Riverfront Plaza.
I think hotel on Riverfront Plaza would be great. I like the idea though of it being a mix of multi-family, hotel, ground level retail, rooftop restaurant.
Quote from: CityLife on March 05, 2026, 10:07:45 AMAgreed on Rise getting burned by the Lot J deal.
I think the Four Seasons may still do ok without Lot J because it will be an entirely self contained experience where guests don't ever have to leave the site. They also have such a healthy incentive package, that will presumably let them offer rates on the extreme low end for a Four Seasons. The ability to stay at a Four Seasons property for $300-$350 a night will potentially draw in local and regional guests. It's an affordable location for high-end small corporate retreats or conferences. It's a desirable spot for athletes training or rehabbing. And will be a go to spot for visitors of sporting events and concerts. But DT Jax is not really a $500-$1k a night hotel market, so it will be very interesting to see how they handle the rates.
I personally think a JW would have been a better fit for the DT Jax market and done more for downtown overall, but am more optimistic that Khan can make this succeed than some other projects DT.
Remember, the residents. JW doesn't have a residential component. Four Seasons (and Ritz) often does, and there are for sale options in the one in Jax. Those residents pay condo fees, which I can imagine are really steep.
Meaning....if the hotel is half empty it still has the condo fees coming in to help float the property.
Quote from: Steve on March 05, 2026, 12:00:14 PMRemember, the residents. JW doesn't have a residential component. Four Seasons (and Ritz) often does, and there are for sale options in the one in Jax.
I think JW is starting to lean a little more into hotel + residential lately, Steve?
A couple in progress for Florida right now:
This was the proposed Orlando project that is currently stalled: https://www.oftmw.com/post/jw-marriott-hotel-residences-mixed-use-project-to-rise-near-lake-eola-in-downtown-orlando
Clearwater JW has condos as well: https://www.oftmw.com/post/jw-marriott-hotel-residences-mixed-use-project-to-rise-near-lake-eola-in-downtown-orlando
The proposed Hard Rock also includes residential units.
Fair point - didn't realize that JW is getting into the residential game. You can tell by my answer the kind of hotels my work travel takes me too since I'm disconnected from that market a bit!
Though Shad Khan doesn't already own one of those!
Good point Steve on the condo aspect of Four Seasons. That likely makes it even more viable of a project.
I suspect that in addition to owning some units for himself and family, Khan will use some of the condo units for rentals for coaches and higher paid players. Also imagine he might be using hotel rooms for rookies, practice players, and players that are on the bubble of making/staying on the roster.
If you are a head coach or team owner, you want your players and coaches as close to the training facilities and offices as possible, and the Four Seasons is a great way to keep them closer. It's a great play by Khan, imo.
Four Seasons only needs Shad Khan. He and his business, friends and family cronies will ensure it is well used. He doesn't need the greater area to support it all that much. NFL owners and execs, national media, players, coaches, team sponsors, AEW, business partners, prospecting vendors, etc. will pay to stay there. It's like the Trump hotel model where anyone who wants an in with the Trump administration finds themselves patronizing his hotel.
Doro and other investors not connected with Khan have a lot more risk. It's why I suspect if Doro flounders, it will take Khan to rescue it if he chooses.
FYI - Artea on the Southbank (next to Rivers Edge) is less than 60% leased - and has been open for over a year. So let's be patient, and not overreact, with RISE Doro.
Corner Lot's First and Main is around 60-65% leased according to the property manager at SPAR's most recent community meeting in February.
I thought there was a more specific discussion about this, but couldn't find one.
The Jags and City cut the ribbon on the new office building - One Tower Court - at the Shipyards.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2026/03/25/jaguars-office-grand-opening.html?ana=e_JA_me&j=44918373&senddate=2026-03-26&empos=p8
QuoteHeadline: One Tower Court opens as Jacksonville's first new multi-tenant office building in nearly 20 years
One Tower Court is now open, delivering downtown Jacksonville's first new multi-tenant office building in nearly two decades and a tangible step forward for the Shipyards redevelopment.
Glad the first paragraph clarified.
QuoteA grand opening for the six-story, 137,000-square-foot Class A building was held March 25, with the Jacksonville Jaguars anchoring the project as its primary tenant. The team's business operations, totaling about 75,000 square feet across the second through fourth floors, will bring roughly 200 employees downtown — with room to grow.
Aren't those Jags employees already downtown, in the stadium and near by?
QuoteFoley & Lardner LLP will relocate its Jacksonville office to occupy the entire fifth floor, housing 44 attorneys and approximately 60 staff members. Timucuan Asset Management has signed on for more than 7,000 square feet on the sixth floor, with its buildout expected to be completed this summer.
Where are these businesses located now? Elsewhere in downtown, or coming in from the burbs?
Yes, the Jags employees were in the stadium previously. Foley and Lardner and Timucuan are both currently in the core, (FKA Wells Fargo and BB&T respectively, so we actually have a net negative in the core.
Quote from: Steve on March 26, 2026, 01:56:52 PMFoley and Lardner and Timucuan are both currently in the core, (FKA Wells Fargo and BB&T respectively, so we actually have a net negative in the core.
Classic. Better than leaving for Southside, I guess.
Subsidized a new product to drain already struggling privately owned properties of tenants in the actual downtown core. Will say it again, DT Jax could really use a real master plan to ensure public resources are strategically used properly, effectively and efficiently.
What Khan is building out is like Gateway, a "community" within the City. These are self contained bubbles with no connections to the greater core or surrounding areas. And, without connecting walkable pathways or viable mass transit, there will be even more separation.
As Ennis notes, no master plan to tie all this together. Synergies will be lost and everything in-between will continue to twist in the wind.
Since the topic of the Skyway has been popping up in other threads lately, I'll bring this up. Would a Bay Street extension of the Skyway toward the stadium potentially help with this? A lot of this is speculative right now, but you could connect everything from the sports venues, Four Seasons, MOSH 2.0, the Hard Rock Hotel, the convention center, Shipyards West, "The Elbow," and whatever they end up building on the old courthouse lot. All of that could be connected with a straight shot down Bay Street.
Personally, I think this would help the new development sites become more of a TOD-type situation if the Skyway extensions were already in place before construction begins.
In the long run, I think this would help DORO and the other Sports District assets feel more connected to the rest of downtown and not so isolated, as they are now.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 26, 2026, 10:12:56 PMWhat Khan is building out is like Gateway, a "community" within the City. These are self contained bubbles with no connections to the greater core or surrounding areas. And, without connecting walkable pathways or viable mass transit, there will be even more separation.
As Ennis notes, no master plan to tie all this together. Synergies will be lost and everything in-between will continue to twist in the wind.
I think it's apples to oranges to compare it to Gateway. Yes, Gateway is trying to build a self-sustaining area given it's mixed use, but the difference is the next developable block after Gateway is across the street. With the Four Seasons, it's down yonder and not walkable.
Quote from: Nmhatt on March 27, 2026, 07:40:36 AMSince the topic of the Skyway has been popping up in other threads lately, I'll bring this up. Would a Bay Street extension of the Skyway toward the stadium potentially help with this? A lot of this is speculative right now, but you could connect everything from the sports venues, Four Seasons, MOSH 2.0, the Hard Rock Hotel, the convention center, Shipyards West, "The Elbow," and whatever they end up building on the old courthouse lot. All of that could be connected with a straight shot down Bay Street.
Personally, I think this would help the new development sites become more of a TOD-type situation if the Skyway extensions were already in place before construction begins.
In the long run, I think this would help DORO and the other Sports District assets feel more connected to the rest of downtown and not so isolated, as they are now.
Yes, if the powers that be found the money and will. A "Gator Bowl" extension was part of the original plan. That little stubby piece along Bay Street at Hogan was put there just for a Gator Bowl extension. Other proposed extensions were north to the UF Hospital, south to San Marco shopping area, and southwest at least to Five Points. Ahhh, what could have been.
I knew about it as part of the original plan, but I think it's time to make it happen—especially with the discussion around revamping the APMs and expanding capacity. I'm not even asking for some of the other ideas you mentioned, like an extension to Five Points, but the "Gator Bowl" extension seems like an easy win, along with Brooklyn. One of the main complaints about the Skyway is that it doesn't go anywhere useful, and extending it down near the stadium would connect a lot of existing (DORO) and future assets.
Before someone says it, I know this is already the route that the NAVI runs, but if we're going to have an elevated guideway, it should at least go somewhere meaningful.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 26, 2026, 06:03:09 PMSubsidized a new product to drain already struggling privately owned properties of tenants in the actual downtown core. Will say it again, DT Jax could really use a real master plan to ensure public resources are strategically used properly, effectively and efficiently.
DIA is considering investing in a plan (of some kind) now, I believe.
Quote from: Nmhatt on March 27, 2026, 11:31:00 AM... but the "Gator Bowl" extension seems like an easy win.... One of the main complaints about the Skyway is that it doesn't go anywhere useful, and extending it down near the stadium would connect a lot of existing (DORO) and future assets.
Nmatt, welcome aboard!
The issue I have with extending the Skyway to the stadium, aside from my overall criticisms of it, is that, from what I have observed, it cannot meaningfully and timely transport large numbers of people in relation to the stadium's capacity, probably not even in relation to the smaller seating of the arena or even the baseball grounds. It couldn't even handle the much smaller crowds for One Spark back in the day. I waited an hour or so in a crowd to get on it and, if I knew it up front, I could have walked the travel distance faster.
Extending to assist the Doro clearly does not justify the expense. And, the Four Season's guests, being upscale and maybe VIP's, are unlikely to ride it or, again, to create meaningful ridership numbers.
While I am against expansion or more investment in the Skyway, going to Brooklyn appears to be the only option worth more than a second's thought before returning to the sane world ;D .
Jaxlongtimer, while I agree with the criticism for the most part I do want to double back a little bit.
While I don't know the true cost of what an expansion like this would be I think the catalytic influence would be worth it in the long run. I don't expect the system to whole sale support game day surge traffic but giving people extra options for transportation is always better.
I'm looking less at the sports venues themselves as much as the link between them and the rest of the city. If we are only talking about extending the Skyway only for what is there now I totally agree that it would more or less be pointless, but in conjunction with a master plan working around a Gator bowl extension you could get potentially be connecting a conversation center, (lot J style) stadium district, MOSH etc. all of which could benefit from dependable transit (not the NAVI).
If the expansion is made the city could encourage a "park once" approach so parking needs aren't as dramatic at any one location.
P.S.
if it was available I would absolutely park at the main street garage and take the Skyway to a Shrimps game to try and beat traffic just a little.