I have read that Taco Bell, Burger King, and Chick-fil-A restaurants of the future are expected to have raised kitchens and drive-thru lanes underneath the kitchen. I have read articles on all 3 of those fast food places talking about raised kitchens in the future.
For more urban environments sure. Not going to make sense to build in a suburban environment, other than maybe Chick-Fil-A. They have more than 2x the revenue per store than even a McDonalds. The majority of that revenue coming from the drive-thru. I don't think this is a serious trend for the short-term, but could see that changing over time.
Drive-thrus and urban environments don't really mix. Pretty sure the idea behind these elevated stores is to automate as much as possible, even if the companies don't come outright and say it.
Taco Bell opens futuristic two-story drive-thru complete with food elevators (https://www.today.com/food/restaurants/taco-bell-futuristic-drive-thru-rcna32393)
Chick-fil-A testing drive-thru restaurant where orders arrive in a chute (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chick-fil-a-drive-thru-new-restaurants-atlanta-new-york/)
Quite the contrary. Drive Thru's allow for more sales with a small footprint, often desirable for urban spaces. When parcels have acreage to them, sites often design dine-in areas. (This being true in a built out environment.) In-n-Out is a perfect example of this in reality. The Chick Fil A example also proves this concept & their restaurants have a legit need to be 2-story. Taco Bell is doing it for show. All fast food chains are moving towards autonomy and drop kitchens for delivery orders.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/03/business/burger-king-restaurant-redesign/index.html
Burger King talks about having elevated kitchens and elevated dining rooms.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 17, 2023, 11:30:51 AM
Quite the contrary. Drive Thru's allow for more sales with a small footprint, often desirable for urban spaces. When parcels have acreage to them, sites often design dine-in areas. (This being true in a built out environment.) In-n-Out is a perfect example of this in reality. The Chick Fil A example also proves this concept & their restaurants have a legit need to be 2-story. Taco Bell is doing it for show. All fast food chains are moving towards autonomy and drop kitchens for delivery orders.
I mainly meant in the context of an urban environment, creating something specifically and only for cars isn't a good use of valuable land. It creates traffic and takes up space that could be used for something more enjoyable like outdoor seating or a small park. You could create a even smaller footprint and serve just as many people if those people got out their cars. I know Jacksonville isn't there yet, but in general drive-thrus really should stay far away from urban neighborhoods.
I could see these making sense in very popular suburban locations, like the Town Center Chick-fil-A for example. But even then you'd have to completely change the access to the restaurant and probably end up making things more confusing. I'm sure these stores have their use somewhere, but I don't think they'll become the standard.
Land Use context completely agree! I was meaning economically speaking. I hate these slideshow websites, but it illustrates the idea well. Really only makes sense cost wise for a Chick Fil A. They sell 3-4x per location than Taco Bell or Bk.
https://www.qsrmagazine.com/slideshow/these-45-fast-food-chains-earn-most-restaurant/
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 17, 2023, 04:16:50 PM
Land Use context completely agree! I was meaning economically speaking. I hate these slideshow websites, but it illustrates the idea well. Really only makes sense cost wise for a Chick Fil A. They sell 3-4x per location than Taco Bell or Bk.
https://www.qsrmagazine.com/slideshow/these-45-fast-food-chains-earn-most-restaurant/
Chick-fil-A ranks number 2 in that list! Taco Bell and Burger King are included in the list, but you have to do a bit of sliding to get to them.
Quote from: Megabox on October 17, 2023, 04:31:13 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 17, 2023, 04:16:50 PM
Land Use context completely agree! I was meaning economically speaking. I hate these slideshow websites, but it illustrates the idea well. Really only makes sense cost wise for a Chick Fil A. They sell 3-4x per location than Taco Bell or Bk.
https://www.qsrmagazine.com/slideshow/these-45-fast-food-chains-earn-most-restaurant/
Chick-fil-A ranks number 2 in that list! Taco Bell and Burger King are included in the list, but you have to do a bit of sliding to get to them.
Yes, but Portillos isn't a national brand. Chick-Fil-A, with more than 2x fewer locations than a BK, Taco Bell, or similar, does more than 3x the revenue of a comparable "traditional" store per store. Chick-Fil-A does almost, or more than, 2x as much revenue as BK & Taco Bell with so many fewer stores. They are truly the economic king of fast food! (Most of that from drive-thrus, hence i see the need for them to go up!)
They will struggle to get two-story buildings approved if they are outparcels to an anchor tenant like Publix. There are typically strict regulations on height limits and view corridors in these anchored developments.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 18, 2023, 07:30:06 AM
Quote from: Megabox on October 17, 2023, 04:31:13 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 17, 2023, 04:16:50 PM
Land Use context completely agree! I was meaning economically speaking. I hate these slideshow websites, but it illustrates the idea well. Really only makes sense cost wise for a Chick Fil A. They sell 3-4x per location than Taco Bell or Bk.
https://www.qsrmagazine.com/slideshow/these-45-fast-food-chains-earn-most-restaurant/
Chick-fil-A ranks number 2 in that list! Taco Bell and Burger King are included in the list, but you have to do a bit of sliding to get to them.
Yes, but Portillos isn't a national brand. Chick-Fil-A, with more than 2x fewer locations than a BK, Taco Bell, or similar, does more than 3x the revenue of a comparable "traditional" store per store. Chick-Fil-A does almost, or more than, 2x as much revenue as BK & Taco Bell with so many fewer stores. They are truly the economic king of fast food! (Most of that from drive-thrus, hence i see the need for them to go up!)
Yes, Portillo's isn't national. I don't think there are any Portillo's locations in Jacksonville. According to a Google search, they have Portillo's in Orlando.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 18, 2023, 07:30:06 AM
Quote from: Megabox on October 17, 2023, 04:31:13 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 17, 2023, 04:16:50 PM
Land Use context completely agree! I was meaning economically speaking. I hate these slideshow websites, but it illustrates the idea well. Really only makes sense cost wise for a Chick Fil A. They sell 3-4x per location than Taco Bell or Bk.
https://www.qsrmagazine.com/slideshow/these-45-fast-food-chains-earn-most-restaurant/
Chick-fil-A ranks number 2 in that list! Taco Bell and Burger King are included in the list, but you have to do a bit of sliding to get to them.
Yes, but Portillos isn't a national brand. Chick-Fil-A, with more than 2x fewer locations than a BK, Taco Bell, or similar, does more than 3x the revenue of a comparable "traditional" store per store. Chick-Fil-A does almost, or more than, 2x as much revenue as BK & Taco Bell with so many fewer stores. They are truly the economic king of fast food! (Most of that from drive-thrus, hence i see the need for them to go up!)
I remember back when I was a kid Chick-fil-A was a fast food place that you only saw in mall food courts. Standalone Chick-fil-A's were uncommon. Then at some time standalone Chick-fil-A's outside of malls started appearing.
I ate at a fast food restaurant in Korea once... a McDonalds. There, the eat-in area was on the second floor and the kitchen and customer counter was on the first floor, the opposite of what is being discussed here. Customers got their orders and took their food up stairs or an elevator if they wanted to eat-in. Seems that might be easier than moving the kitchen upstairs. Plus, they had windows to look out over the tops of the surrounding area, a little like a rooftop arrangement 8). They also had a full fleet of motor scooters that made deliveries around the neighborhood.
FYI, this was like 10 years ago. Sometimes, if you want to see our future, go outside the U.S.
Gotta love the web! Found pictures of that store per below! Just as I remembered it ;D.
(https://10619-2.s.cdn12.com/rests/original/108_531504120.jpg)
(https://10619-2.s.cdn12.com/rests/original/405_503434583.jpg)
(https://10619-2.s.cdn12.com/rests/original/108_511035700.jpg)
(https://img.restaurantguru.com/r2ae-design-McDonalds-2022-09-934.jpg)
(https://10619-2.s.cdn12.com/rests/original/108_530428771.jpg)
Hey Jax, we do have these here in America and have had them for a while. They are only (95% of them) in NYC & Chicago. They are designed that way of course for ease when walking in at the street level. Most major Asian & European cities have these two stories McDonalds due to the tight spacing of these areas, walkability, and revenue.
In most US urban settings, the primary mode of transportation is still car transit. As unfortunate as that is to say... What will happen in the "future" is Chick Fil A sites in Atlanta, Tampa, Los Angeles, Miami... (higher priced markets) will start to build 2-story to meet the drive-thru demand to capture that revenue. Simply put, most fast food places do most of their revenue from the drive-thru. There will be some sites in which it makes sense to elevate on. I don't think it will be common, but time may change that.
To realestatejax's point, there's going to be some pushback with code in many locations, but some premier spots will fit the bill I'm sure.
I have read that the fast food chain Five Guys doesn't do drive-thrus even at standalone Five Guys locations. For some reason, that chain prefers not to offer drive-thru service.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 19, 2023, 11:21:19 AM
Hey Jax, we do have these here in America and have had them for a while. They are only (95% of them) in NYC & Chicago. They are designed that way of course for ease when walking in at the street level. Most major Asian & European cities have these two stories McDonalds due to the tight spacing of these areas, walkability, and revenue.
In most US urban settings, the primary mode of transportation is still car transit. As unfortunate as that is to say... What will happen in the "future" is Chick Fil A sites in Atlanta, Tampa, Los Angeles, Miami... (higher priced markets) will start to build 2-story to meet the drive-thru demand to capture that revenue. Simply put, most fast food places do most of their revenue from the drive-thru. There will be some sites in which it makes sense to elevate on. I don't think it will be common, but time may change that.
To realestatejax's point, there's going to be some pushback with code in many locations, but some premier spots will fit the bill I'm sure.
Megabox, understand. As you can tell from the pix I posted, this one isn't in an area as urbanized as NYC or Chicago. It actually is in a reasonably open area as I recall and it also has a drive through. Not sure the value of the real estate so that may have contributed to this design. My main point was having the eating area, not the kitchen, on the second floor given the prior discussion on this thread.
They are around, just not in Jacksonville. Our land values aren't at a level that would make this type of fast food design financially feasible. That's why you don't see it here.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 19, 2023, 06:09:28 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 19, 2023, 11:21:19 AM
Hey Jax, we do have these here in America and have had them for a while. They are only (95% of them) in NYC & Chicago. They are designed that way of course for ease when walking in at the street level. Most major Asian & European cities have these two stories McDonalds due to the tight spacing of these areas, walkability, and revenue.
In most US urban settings, the primary mode of transportation is still car transit. As unfortunate as that is to say... What will happen in the "future" is Chick Fil A sites in Atlanta, Tampa, Los Angeles, Miami... (higher priced markets) will start to build 2-story to meet the drive-thru demand to capture that revenue. Simply put, most fast food places do most of their revenue from the drive-thru. There will be some sites in which it makes sense to elevate on. I don't think it will be common, but time may change that.
To realestatejax's point, there's going to be some pushback with code in many locations, but some premier spots will fit the bill I'm sure.
Megabox, understand. As you can tell from the pix I posted, this one isn't in an area as urbanized as NYC or Chicago. It actually is in a reasonably open area as I recall and it also has a drive through. Not sure the value of the real estate so that may have contributed to this design. My main point was having the eating area, not the kitchen, on the second floor given the prior discussion on this thread.
I have no clue about this one, but the one's I went to in Europe were all near train stations. Possibly the case here too? I do agree with you in that they are built in different environments, I would argue they still serve the same purpose being in foot pedestrian heavy areas. (Given the high % of urbanization in Europe & SE Asia).
Quote from: thelakelander on October 19, 2023, 09:58:09 PM
They are around, just not in Jacksonville. Our land values aren't at a level that would make this type of fast food design financially feasible. That's why you don't see it here.
Yeah won't be seen here for a while. We have no shortage of 1-2 acre commercial parcels with good access... LOL. Hence the Car Wash BOOM!
Isn't the McDonalds off Sand Lake Road in Orlando two stories?
Btw, passed this Chick-Fil-A drive thru that was incorporated into a downtown Mobile parking garage yesterday:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Mobile---October-2023/i-rw4rbxj/0/77a7dd04/X3/20231019_142333-X3.jpg)
Incorporating drive thrus into parking garages to fit suburban places like this into urban areas makes sense.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 20, 2023, 10:32:28 AM
Isn't the McDonalds off Sand Lake Road in Orlando two stories?
Looks to be.. but that's a perfect example of a suitable site for one. Like one block from Universals Studios right off I-4. They exist already, but the vast majority are in NYC & Chicago within tight areas. I'm sure there are some in Miami already. There was one in Daytona at one point in time, but that has since been demolished.
The parking garage idea is actually genius for garage retail. Never seen that before, integrated I mean.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 20, 2023, 09:31:27 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 19, 2023, 06:09:28 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on October 19, 2023, 11:21:19 AM
Hey Jax, we do have these here in America and have had them for a while. They are only (95% of them) in NYC & Chicago. They are designed that way of course for ease when walking in at the street level. Most major Asian & European cities have these two stories McDonalds due to the tight spacing of these areas, walkability, and revenue.
In most US urban settings, the primary mode of transportation is still car transit. As unfortunate as that is to say... What will happen in the "future" is Chick Fil A sites in Atlanta, Tampa, Los Angeles, Miami... (higher priced markets) will start to build 2-story to meet the drive-thru demand to capture that revenue. Simply put, most fast food places do most of their revenue from the drive-thru. There will be some sites in which it makes sense to elevate on. I don't think it will be common, but time may change that.
To realestatejax's point, there's going to be some pushback with code in many locations, but some premier spots will fit the bill I'm sure.
Megabox, understand. As you can tell from the pix I posted, this one isn't in an area as urbanized as NYC or Chicago. It actually is in a reasonably open area as I recall and it also has a drive through. Not sure the value of the real estate so that may have contributed to this design. My main point was having the eating area, not the kitchen, on the second floor given the prior discussion on this thread.
I have no clue about this one, but the one's I went to in Europe were all near train stations. Possibly the case here too? I do agree with you in that they are built in different environments, I would argue they still serve the same purpose being in foot pedestrian heavy areas. (Given the high % of urbanization in Europe & SE Asia).
No trains near the one I shared, it's on an island off the Korean coast ;D,
Orlando's is next to an I-4 interchange. But that suburban market, with the amount of tourist it gets, makes it feasible.