Metro Jacksonville

Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 17, 2022, 07:24:02 PM
^ Some say Putin is actually trying to create a distraction to take the Russian people's attention away from all the things wrong in their country such as a lousy quality of life under Putin's leadership.  Supposedly, Putin, in support of this, has cranked up his propaganda machine to full speed telling Russians that Ukraine is a threat to Russia.

Putin knows Ukraine is no threat to Russia, It's the other way around. And, he may not like NATO at his doorstep, but NATO clearly has no intention or reason to "invade" Russia so Putin is just trumping up that issue.  NATO might even be willing to agree to hold back on stationing certain military assets in Ukraine as long as Russia was behaving, just to throw in a bone.

Some pundits believe Putin should be more worried about the rumblings in Kazakhstan, which, to date has had pro-Putin puppets leading the country.  The unrest there could be taken as a exemplar for the Russian people which is Putin's ultimate concern.

This is all about Putin maintaining his hold on power while overseeing a corrupt and murderous bureaucracy that he is plundering for his own financial gain.  It is amazing that for over 100 years, an otherwise very intelligent people, have tolerated so many terrible leaders that have turned around and abused them.  Unfortunately, there are some today in this country who feel we might be facing a similar fate going forward.

Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 18, 2022, 10:08:39 PM
If Ukraine has any decent military assets, even in a losing effort, they could extract a very heavy toll on Russia.  I note that Ukraine also has a population of about 43,000,000.  Compare this to Afghanistan that is about 39,000,000.  Russia never could tame the latter so I would imagine they could face decades of Western supported urban combat and militant attacks both in Ukraine and in Russia if they successfully invade.  I would be surprised if 100,000 Russian troops less their battle losses would be able to sustain a worry-free occupation.  Another war of wills like Afghanistan or Viet Nam.

Between heavy losses and ongoing attacks, along with global sanctions, I wonder if even Putin could survive the resulting turmoil within Russia. 

Putin's attempt to rebuild the USSR reflects a failure to learn lessons of the past.  He might get some of it done but it won't hold together forever.

Doesn't mean Putin doesn't take a plunge if his ego and power hungry desires block his common sense.  So far, I suppose, that has been how he operates, unfortunately.

QuoteThe Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.[1]

Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances
Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with the Republic of Belarus'/Republic of Kazakhstan's/Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons
Signed
5 December 1994.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 27, 2022, 04:33:20 PM
Russia and China... lying liars who lie...

Quote from: Snaketoz on January 30, 2022, 07:22:43 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 27, 2022, 04:33:20 PM
Russia and China... lying liars who lie...

There are many others that might be added to that list...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 30, 2022, 07:49:18 PM

Quote from: Snaketoz on January 30, 2022, 07:22:43 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 27, 2022, 04:33:20 PM
Russia and China... lying liars who lie...

There are many others that might be added to that list...

Who might that be?  Are they threatening a democracy in Europe or Asia?

Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 30, 2022, 10:54:00 PM
^ At a minimum, I would add Iran and North Korea. 

When it comes to being less than truthful, well, I think every country, including ours, has been guilty of that at times.  Some, obviously, more than others.  As such, today, I would say Saudia Arabia, Belarus, Afghanistan, Myanmar Venezuela, Cuba and Kazakhstan would be notable leading candidates to add to the list.  I am sure there are others, just not as obvious or prominent.  Certainly, any country with an oppressive government and/or dictator is a candidate.

Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 30, 2022, 11:10:27 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 30, 2022, 07:49:18 PM

Quote from: Snaketoz on January 30, 2022, 07:22:43 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 27, 2022, 04:33:20 PM
Russia and China... lying liars who lie...

There are many others that might be added to that list...

Who might that be?  Are they threatening a democracy in Europe or Asia?

The US Republican Party, although the continent would be North America.

Quote from: Snaketoz on January 31, 2022, 08:22:00 AM
"The first casualty in any conflict is the truth."

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 31, 2022, 08:39:45 AM

Quote from: Snaketoz on January 31, 2022, 08:22:00 AM
"The first casualty in any conflict is the truth."

Sooo... you believe Putin?  Got it...

Quote from: Snaketoz on February 01, 2022, 12:06:57 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 31, 2022, 08:39:45 AM

Quote from: Snaketoz on January 31, 2022, 08:22:00 AM
"The first casualty in any conflict is the truth."

Sooo... you believe Putin?  Got it...

Now, now, BT.  How can you come up with such a supposition? Was it meant to troll me, or are you hallucinating?

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 01, 2022, 03:48:42 PM

Quote from: Snaketoz on February 01, 2022, 12:06:57 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 31, 2022, 08:39:45 AM

Quote from: Snaketoz on January 31, 2022, 08:22:00 AM
"The first casualty in any conflict is the truth."

Sooo... you believe Putin?  Got it...

Now, now, BT.  How can you come up with such a supposition? Was it meant to troll me, or are you hallucinating?

Just trying to make sense  of nonsense...

Quote from: Snaketoz on February 01, 2022, 04:33:20 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 01, 2022, 03:48:42 PM

Quote from: Snaketoz on February 01, 2022, 12:06:57 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 31, 2022, 08:39:45 AM

Quote from: Snaketoz on January 31, 2022, 08:22:00 AM
"The first casualty in any conflict is the truth."

Sooo... you believe Putin?  Got it...

Now, now, BT.  How can you come up with such a supposition? Was it meant to troll me, or are you hallucinating?

Just trying to make sense  of nonsense...

You have it reversed.  You put your way of thinking into the many situations that seem to be above your head.  That was a quote from a California Republican Senator in 1918.  From personal experience, I have to agree with him.  I never mentioned anyone, especially Putin.  Where do you come up with this sort of stuff?  Must you critique many posters here with your rubbish?

QuoteOSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM) Daily Report 37/2022 issued on 17 February 2022
KYIV 17 February 2022

Based on information from the Monitoring Teams as of 19:30 16 February 2022. All times are in Eastern European Time.

Summary

In Donetsk region, the SMM recorded 189 ceasefire violations, including 128 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 24 ceasefire violations in the region.
In Luhansk region, the Mission recorded 402 ceasefire violations, including 188 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 129 ceasefire violations in the region.
A member of the armed formations threatened an SMM patrol at a training area near non-government-controlled Shymshynivka, Luhansk region.
The SMM continued monitoring the disengagement areas near Stanytsia Luhanska, Zolote and Petrivske. It recorded ceasefire violations inside the areas near Stanytsia Luhanska and Zolote.
The Mission monitored the operation of critical civilian infrastructure.
The SMM continued to follow up on the situation of civilians, including at four entry-exit checkpoints and the corresponding checkpoints of the armed formations in Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
The Mission visited a border crossing point in Kharkiv region, where it saw no change in the security situation.
The SMM observed gatherings in Kyiv and Dnipro.
The Mission's freedom of movement continued to be restricted, including at a heavy weapons holding area in a government-controlled area of Luhansk region, at a permanent storage site and a heavy weapons holding area in non-government-controlled areas of Donetsk region, and at a training area in a non-government-controlled area of Luhansk region. Its unmanned aerial vehicles again encountered instances of GPS signal interference, assessed as caused by probable jamming.*

QuoteMarinka, Ukraine – Valentina Gordeyeva realised something was coming when the tops of nearby fir trees started to shake but as she ran to shelter in a nearby shop, a shard of shrapnel pierced the soft flesh of her left hand.

"I was holding a bag and felt pain, and then I saw blood running down my bag," the 65-year-old said, her thumb and wrist now bandaged after she became one of four civilians wounded in shelling by Russian-backed separatists since Thursday.... 

Quote from: acme54321 on February 22, 2022, 06:11:07 AM
I guess this isn't a question anymore

Quote from: jaxoNOLE on February 23, 2022, 11:25:06 PM
Another historical quote:

"The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. Because the Cold War has been over for 20 years."

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 06:05:44 AM
Sorry Adam... HUGE difference.   Ukraine was a peaceful democracy not a dictator exporting terrorism. Ukraine has not invaded its neighbors nor has it committed constant genocide against its citizens... comparisons between the two countries is absurd and frankly bizarre...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:22:51 AM
In any event, Adam... you will always stick up for dictators and communists... And people like you are going to be the death of us all.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:28:11 AM
The entire world is condemning Putin except China, North Korea,... and Adam....

Quote from: Adam White on February 24, 2022, 07:30:35 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:22:51 AM
In any event, Adam... you will always stick up for dictators and communists... And people like you are going to be the death of us all.

I don't stick up for dictators or 'communists'. In fact, I have stated I oppose this invasion. But reading and logic were never your strong suit.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:38:35 AM

Quote from: Adam White on February 24, 2022, 07:30:35 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:22:51 AM
In any event, Adam... you will always stick up for dictators and communists... And people like you are going to be the death of us all.

I don't stick up for dictators or 'communists'. In fact, I have stated I oppose this invasion. But reading and logic were never your strong suit.

You really should direct your anger at Putin... lashing out at me is easier for you I suppose... have at it.  Equivocating Russian invasion of a peaceful democracy and anything you described above is just emotional silliness.

Quote

Quote from: Adam White on February 24, 2022, 07:41:46 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:38:35 AM

Quote from: Adam White on February 24, 2022, 07:30:35 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:22:51 AM
In any event, Adam... you will always stick up for dictators and communists... And people like you are going to be the death of us all.

I don't stick up for dictators or 'communists'. In fact, I have stated I oppose this invasion. But reading and logic were never your strong suit.

You really should direct your anger at Putin... lashing out at me is easier for you I suppose... have at it.  Equivocating Russian invasion of a peaceful democracy and anything you described above is just emotional silliness.

It's very "BridgeTroll" of you to completely miss the point of a post. And to twist someone's words. You're a regular Stephen Dare - but without the flair, sadly.

QuoteThe Cold War never ended. And what's happening in Ukraine is terrible.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:44:06 AM

Oh... I found is here you "condemned Putin"... strong stuff...

QuoteThe Cold War never ended. And what's happening in Ukraine is terrible.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:58:47 AM
Hmmm... ok... I  also have been critical of NATO.  Expanding into the Baltics was a overreach in my opinion and encouraging Ukraine was bound to be a problem...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 08:12:09 AM
There are many NATO forces and Russian forces rubbing elbows in the Mediterranean, Black sea, North Atlantic and Baltic sea... hopefully no one makes a mistake...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 08:24:21 AM
Actually... my hope is that Ukraine puts up a staunch resistance causing anti Putin general's and politicians to overthrow that maniac. Of course that has its own problems..

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:28:11 AM
The entire world is condemning Putin except China, North Korea,... and Adam....

Quote
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful," Trump told a conservative podcaster in an interview published Tuesday.

"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he's gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. ... We could use that on our southern border," the former president said, describing Putin as "a guy who's very savvy" and whom he knows "very, very well."

Quote from: Charles Hunter on February 24, 2022, 09:03:19 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:28:11 AM
The entire world is condemning Putin except China, North Korea,... and Adam....

... and the Former Guy isn't condemning his pal's actions

Quote
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful," Trump told a conservative podcaster in an interview published Tuesday.

"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he's gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. ... We could use that on our southern border," the former president said, describing Putin as "a guy who's very savvy" and whom he knows "very, very well."

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 09:07:54 AM

Quote from: Charles Hunter on February 24, 2022, 09:03:19 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2022, 07:28:11 AM
The entire world is condemning Putin except China, North Korea,... and Adam....

... and the Former Guy isn't condemning his pal's actions

Quote
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful," Trump told a conservative podcaster in an interview published Tuesday.

"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he's gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. ... We could use that on our southern border," the former president said, describing Putin as "a guy who's very savvy" and whom he knows "very, very well."

Hopefully quotes like that exposes that moron for what he is...

Quote from: MusicMan on February 24, 2022, 12:46:35 PM
Looking like Fox News is on board with Trump's assessment. 

Jeez, if we only had a strong Prez like Putin, imagine how cool that would be....

Quote"Biden said the new sanctions would affect the Russian space program. OK. It remains to find out the details: 1. Do you want to block our access to radiation-resistant space microelectronics? So you already did it quite officially in 2014.As you noticed, we, nevertheless, continue to make our own spacecraft. And we will do them by expanding the production of the necessary components and devices at home.

"2. Do you want to ban all countries from launching their spacecraft on the most reliable Russian rockets in the world? This is how you are already doing it and are planning to finally destroy the world market of space competition from January 1, 2023 by imposing sanctions on our launch vehicles. We are aware. This is also not news. We are ready to act here too.

"Do you want to destroy our cooperation on the ISS? This is how you already do it by limiting exchanges between our cosmonaut and astronaut training centers. Or do you want to manage the ISS yourself? Maybe President Biden is off topic, so explain to him that the correction of the station's orbit, its avoidance of dangerous rendezvous with space ..garbage, with which your talented businessmen have polluted the near-Earth orbit, is produced exclusively by the engines of the Russian Progress MS cargo ships. If you block cooperation with us, who will save the ISS from an uncontrolled deorbit and fall into the United States or...Europe? There is also the option of dropping a 500-ton structure to India and China. Do you want to threaten them with such a prospect? The ISS does not fly over Russia, so all the risks are yours. Are you ready for them?

"Gentlemen, when planning sanctions, check those who generate them for illness Alzheimer's. Just in case. To prevent your sanctions from falling on your head. And not only in a figurative sense. Therefore, for the time being, as a partner, I suggest that you do not behave like an irresponsible gamer, disavow the statement about "Alzheimer's sanctions". Friendly advice"

Quote from: acme54321 on February 26, 2022, 02:44:09 PM
Germany announced they were sending a 500(?) stinger missiles into Ukraine.  Poland too.  Extremely effective shoulder launched SAM.

Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2022, 05:44:13 PM
I'm more convinced than ever Trump would have endorsed this move by Putin. He idolizes the guy.

Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2022, 05:44:13 PM
I'm more convinced than ever Trump would have endorsed this move by Putin. He idolizes the guy.

Quote from: acme54321 on February 26, 2022, 11:26:32 PM
All I know is for the sake of our city in particular, I pray this thing doesn't spill out of Ukraine.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 27, 2022, 07:51:44 AM

Quote from: acme54321 on February 26, 2022, 11:26:32 PM
All I know is for the sake of our city in particular, I pray this thing doesn't spill out of Ukraine.

Ships from Mayport, and aircraft from NAS are mixing it up with the Russians all around the periphery of this  conflict...

Quote from: fsu813 on February 26, 2022, 06:35:08 PM

Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2022, 05:44:13 PM
I'm more convinced than ever Trump would have endorsed this move by Putin. He idolizes the guy.

Likely not endorsed, but equivacated. Much like he did with the Saudi murder of the Washington Post journalist.

Quote from: vicupstate on February 28, 2022, 12:44:26 PM

Quote from: fsu813 on February 26, 2022, 06:35:08 PM

Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2022, 05:44:13 PM
I'm more convinced than ever Trump would have endorsed this move by Putin. He idolizes the guy.

Likely not endorsed, but equivacated. Much like he did with the Saudi murder of the Washington Post journalist.

There was a book out last year that wrote that Trump privately indicated that he would seek to withdraw from NATO and the blow up the U.S. alliance with South Korea if he was re-elected. 

https://www.amazon.com/Alone-Can-Fix-Donald-Catastrophic/dp/0593298942 (https://www.amazon.com/Alone-Can-Fix-Donald-Catastrophic/dp/0593298942)



 

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 28, 2022, 01:17:42 PM

Quote from: vicupstate on February 28, 2022, 12:44:26 PM

Quote from: fsu813 on February 26, 2022, 06:35:08 PM

Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2022, 05:44:13 PM
I'm more convinced than ever Trump would have endorsed this move by Putin. He idolizes the guy.

Likely not endorsed, but equivacated. Much like he did with the Saudi murder of the Washington Post journalist.

There was a book out last year that wrote that Trump privately indicated that he would seek to withdraw from NATO and the blow up the U.S. alliance with South Korea if he was re-elected. 

https://www.amazon.com/Alone-Can-Fix-Donald-Catastrophic/dp/0593298942 (https://www.amazon.com/Alone-Can-Fix-Donald-Catastrophic/dp/0593298942)



 

To be very clear... Trump is a clueless moron. But up until a week ago most NATO nations were not contributing anywhere near their responsibility. Germany was the worst offender. Apparently Putin has fixed NATO impotence in one gigantic miscalculation...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 28, 2022, 01:17:42 PM

Quote from: vicupstate on February 28, 2022, 12:44:26 PM

Quote from: fsu813 on February 26, 2022, 06:35:08 PM

Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2022, 05:44:13 PM
I'm more convinced than ever Trump would have endorsed this move by Putin. He idolizes the guy.

Likely not endorsed, but equivacated. Much like he did with the Saudi murder of the Washington Post journalist.

There was a book out last year that wrote that Trump privately indicated that he would seek to withdraw from NATO and the blow up the U.S. alliance with South Korea if he was re-elected. 

https://www.amazon.com/Alone-Can-Fix-Donald-Catastrophic/dp/0593298942 (https://www.amazon.com/Alone-Can-Fix-Donald-Catastrophic/dp/0593298942)



 

To be very clear... Trump is a clueless moron. But up until a week ago most NATO nations were not contributing anywhere near their responsibility. Germany was the worst offender. Apparently Putin has fixed NATO impotence in one gigantic miscalculation...

Quote from: MusicMan on March 05, 2022, 10:43:32 AM
I can only assume that if Russia moves on to attack a NATO member, THEN we will have an all out "shooting war" in Europe?

I don't think it's a stretch to say that if given 48 hours, a large contingent of US/NATO fighters, bombers, and A-10 Warthogs could pretty much destroy every moving thing Russia has within the borders of Ukraine.

QuoteEvaluating Russia's Performance in Ukraine
By George Friedman -March 8, 2022Open as PDF
The Russian invasion of Ukraine had two goals. The first was to take control of Ukraine, intending to complete the task begun in Belarus – the task of rebuilding Russia's strategic buffers and securing Russia from attack. The second goal was to demonstrate the capabilities and professionalism of the Russian military and to further deter hypothetical acts and increase Russia's regional influence. The two goals were interlocked.

The occupation of Ukraine has not been achieved, but it is not a lost cause. Perceptions of the strength of Russia's military, however, have been badly damaged. There is no question but that Russian planners did not want to fight the war Russia has been fighting. Rather than a rapid and decisive defeat of Ukraine, Russia is engaged in a slow, grinding war unlikely to impress the world with its return to the first ranks of military power. At this point, even a final victory in its first objective will not redeem the second. It is important to start identifying the Russian weaknesses.

The first problem was a loss of surprise. Carl von Clausewitz placed surprise at the top of warfare. Surprise contracts the time an enemy has to prepare for war. It also imposes a psychological shock that takes time to overcome, making it more difficult to implement existing plans. And it increases the perceived power of the enemy. In Ukraine, however, extended diplomacy gave Kyiv time to adjust psychologically to the possibility of war.

Moscow failed to understand its enemy. Russia clearly expected Ukrainian resistance to collapse rapidly in the face of the massive armored force it had gathered. It did not expect the Ukrainian populace to fight back to an extent that would at least delay completion of the war.

The purpose of war is to break the enemy's military capability. The Ukrainian military had a diffuse center of gravity and was at distance from the Russian armored battle groups. In addition, the population has fought back, increasing the amount of time necessary to end the resistance.

Russian war plans centered on three armored groups based in the east, south and north. Tanks have become vulnerable to infantry anti-tank weapons. Rather than brushing infantry aside, Russia now must use infantry to clear away deadly threats to its tanks. The use of armor as the decisive force on the battlefield, and therefore the main force, has evolved. This seems not to have been accepted by Russian planners. Armored war peaked in World War II. Armor remains present, but we have not seen armor-to-armor combat since the 1973 Arab-Israeli War and to some extent in Desert Storm. This was a generation ago. War has moved on.

The three Russian armored battle groups were widely separated. They did not support each other. Instead of a single coordinated war, the Kremlin opted for at least three separate wars, making a single decisive stroke impossible. A single integrated command, essential for warfighting, seemed to be lacking.

The use of armor vastly increased the pressure on Russian logistics. Instead of focusing supplies on a single thrust, it had to focus on three, plus other operations. Logistics for the major armored forces seemed to have broken down, making war termination impossible and further extending the war.

In recent days, Russia has adapted and turned toward taking cities. This is generating an effective counterforce among fighters who understand the streets and alleys and use them to delay Russia's progress. Fighting in cities is among the costliest and most time-consuming actions in war. Capturing cities takes resources and is not the key to victory. Cities take on importance only after the enemy force has been defeated and demoralizing the nation is essential. The city is the prize of war, not the military goal. Russia turned the conflict from a counter-military to a counter-population war, which increased resistance by sowing desperation in the cities.

Behind this was the fact that Russia simply failed to identify Ukraine's center of gravity. It concentrated armor and sought a similarly concentrated force to defeat. Instead, the center of gravity has been essentially an informal guerrilla force constantly dispersing and reforming, not threatening the Russians with defeat but keeping them off balance.

This pushed Russia further toward a counter-population strategy, which decreased the effectiveness of its armor – both slowing its progress and pitting it against small groups that it's not designed to fight.

Russia failed to shut down Ukrainian communications internally and with the rest of the world. Rather than isolating the enemy internally and externally, it allowed Kyiv to wage psychological warfare against the Russian attack on all fronts, undermining the Russian psychological goal of being seen as an overwhelming force.

All of this culminated in the Russians' final mistake. They expected the overwhelming availability of armor to cause a rapid capitulation. Ukraine is a large country, and if it is to be occupied by armor, the armor must move rapidly. Obviously, they expected shock and awe to break Ukraine's will to resist. The shock was dissipated by the loss of surprise. The awe was limited by Russia's inability to concentrate strategic force, and ultimately by Ukraine's mobilization of its population as a resistance force.

The Russians needed a rapid war to achieve their goals. The way in which they fought the war was not at odds with a final victory, but it was at odds with a fast one. Russia defeating Ukraine over the course of weeks or months is not awe-inspiring given their relative power. And Russia's goal of displaying a first-rank military in order to appear awesome to its neighbors will not be achieved. 

Quote from: I-10east on March 14, 2022, 01:36:06 PM
I know one thing for certain, the "uncredited misinformation" AKA "based alternative media" are batting .1000; meanwhile the one sided (Russia bad, Ukraine good) mainstream media is peddling lies like usual. When big tech censorship is silencing voices of the inconvenient truth, then you know that they are telling it like it is, minus a big corporate contact and cherry picked narrative.   

This war is about as complex as they come. Various unsavory globalistic tentacles are supporting both countries VIA proxy. One thing for sure, American neo liberals and neo conservatives are very happy with any war. 

Quote from: I-10east on March 14, 2022, 06:57:53 PM
^^^I wasn't even referring to you or anything. Why are you so aggressive? LOL. The same cabal of globalists gets to decide on what's "credible" or not...I don't have a damn dog in the fight; anyone saying I'm "Kremlin propaganda" probably already drunk the Kyiv Kool Aid.

If you insist with the link....Here's link from "the conservative friendly" Salon. Don't worry it's a "long story" though.... There's much more red flags too.... https://www.salon.com/2022/03/10/are-there-really-neo-nazis-fighting-for-ukraine-well-yes--but-its-a-long-story/

QuoteThe Russo-Ukrainian War is the most severe geopolitical conflict since World War II and will result in far greater global consequences than September 11 attacks. At this critical moment, China needs to accurately analyze and assess the direction of the war and its potential impact on the international landscape. At the same time, in order to strive for a relatively favorable external environment, China needs to respond flexibly and make strategic choices that conform to its long-term interests.

Russia's 'special military operation' against Ukraine has caused great controvsery in China, with its supporters and opponents being divided into two implacably opposing sides. This article does not represent any party and, for the judgment and reference of the highest decision-making level in China, this article conducts an objective analysis on the possible war consequences along with their corresponding countermeasure options.

I. Predicting the Future of the Russo-Ukrainian War

1.  Vladimir Putin may be unable to achieve his expected goals, which puts Russia in a tight spot. The purpose of Putin's attack was to completely solve the Ukrainian problem and divert attention from Russia's domestic crisis by defeating Ukraine with a blitzkrieg, replacing its leadership, and cultivating a pro-Russian government. However, the blitzkrieg failed, and Russia is unable to support a protracted war and its associated high costs. Launching a nuclear war would put Russia on the opposite side of the whole world and is therefore unwinnable. The situations both at home and abroad are also increasingly unfavorable. Even if the Russian army were to occupy Ukraine's capital Kyiv and set up a puppet government at a high cost, this would not mean final victory. At this point, Putin's best option is to end the war decently through peace talks, which requires Ukraine to make substantial concessions. However, what is not attainable on the battlefield is also difficult to obtain at the negotiating table. In any case, this military action constitutes an irreversible mistake.

2.  The conflict may escalate further, and the West's eventual involvement in the war cannot be ruled out. While the escalation of the war would be costly, there is a high probability that Putin will not give up easily given his character and power. The Russo-Ukrainian war may escalate beyond the scope and region of Ukraine, and may even include the possibility of a nuclear strike. Once this happens, the U.S. and Europe cannot stay aloof from the conflict, thus triggering a world war or even a nuclear war. The result would be a catastrophe for humanity and a showdown between the United States and Russia. This final confrontation, given that Russia's military power is no match for NATO's, would be even worse for Putin.

3.  Even if Russia manages to seize Ukraine in a desperate gamble, it is still a political hot potato. Russia would thereafter carry a heavy burden and become overwhelmed. Under such circumstances, no matter whether Volodymyr Zelensky is alive or not, Ukraine will most likely set up a government-in-exile to confront Russia in the long term. Russia will be subject both to Western sanctions and rebellion within the territory of Ukraine. The battle lines will be drawn very long. The domestic economy will be unsustainable and will eventually be dragged down. This period will not exceed a few years.

4. The political situation in Russia may change or be disintegrated at the hands of the West. After Putin's blitzkrieg failed, the hope of Russia's victory is slim and Western sanctions have reached an unprecedented degree. As people's livelihoods are severely affected and as anti-war and anti-Putin forces gather, the possibility of a political mutiny in Russia cannot be ruled out. With Russia's economy on the verge of collapse, it would be difficult for Putin to prop up the perilous situation even without the loss of the Russo-Ukrainian war. If Putin were to be ousted from power due to civil strife, coup d'état, or another reason, Russia would be even less likely to confront the West. It would surely succumb to the West, or even be further dismembered, and Russia's status as a great power would come to an end.

II. Analysis of the Impact of Russo-Ukrainian war On International Landscape

1. The United States would regain leadership in the Western world, and the West would become more united. At present, public opinion believes that the Ukrainian war signifies a complete collapse of U.S. hegemony, but the war would in fact bring France and Germany, both of which wanted to break away from the U.S., back into the NATO defense framework, destroying Europe's dream to achieve independent diplomacy and self-defense. Germany would greatly increase its military budget; Switzerland, Sweden, and other countries would abandon their neutrality. With Nord Stream 2 put on hold indefinitely, Europe's reliance on US natural gas will inevitably increase. The US and Europe would form a closer community of shared future, and American leadership in the Western world will rebound.

2. The "Iron Curtain" would fall again not only from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea, but also to the final confrontation between the Western-dominated camp and its competitors. The West will draw the line between democracies and authoritarian states, defining the divide with Russia as a struggle between democracy and dictatorship. The new Iron Curtain will no longer be drawn between the two camps of socialism and capitalism, nor will it be confined to the Cold War. It will be a life-and-death battle between those for and against Western democracy. The unity of the Western world under the Iron Curtain will have a siphon effect on other countries: the U.S. Indo-Pacific strategy will be consolidated, and other countries like Japan will stick even closer to the U.S., which will form an unprecedentedly broad democratic united front.

3. The power of the West will grow significantly, NATO will continue to expand, and U.S. influence in the non-Western world will increase. After the Russo-Ukrainian War, no matter how Russia achieves its political transformation, it will greatly weaken the anti-Western forces in the world. The scene after the 1991 Soviet and Eastern upheavals may repeat itself: theories on "the end of ideology" may reappear, the resurgence of the third wave of democratization will lose momentum, and more third world countries will embrace the West. The West will possess more "hegemony" both in terms of military power and in terms of values and institutions, its hard power and soft power will reach new heights.

4. China will become more isolated under the established framework. For the above reasons, if China does not take proactive measures to respond, it will encounter further containment from the US and the West. Once Putin falls, the U.S. will no longer face two strategic competitors but only have to lock China in strategic containment. Europe will further cut itself off from China; Japan will become the anti-China vanguard; South Korea will further fall to the U.S.; Taiwan will join the anti-China chorus, and the rest of the world will have to choose sides under herd mentality. China will not only be militarily encircled by the U.S., NATO, the QUAD, and AUKUS, but also be challenged by Western values and systems.

III. China's Strategic Choice

1. China cannot be tied to Putin and needs to be cut off as soon as possible. In the sense that an escalation of conflict between Russia and the West helps divert U.S. attention from China, China should rejoice with and even support Putin, but only if Russia does not fall. Being in the same boat with Putin will impact China should he lose power. Unless Putin can secure victory with China's backing, a prospect which looks bleak at the moment, China does not have the clout to back Russia. The law of international politics says that there are "no eternal allies nor perpetual enemies," but "our interests are eternal and perpetual." Under current international circumstances, China can only proceed by safeguarding its own best interests, choosing the lesser of two evils, and unloading the burden of Russia as soon as possible. At present, it is estimated that there is still a window period of one or two weeks before China loses its wiggle room. China must act decisively.

2. China should avoid playing both sides in the same boat, give up being neutral, and choose the mainstream position in the world. At present, China has tried not to offend either side and walked a middle ground in its international statements and choices, including abstaining from the UN Security Council and the UN General Assembly votes. However, this position does not meet Russia's needs, and it has infuriated Ukraine and its supporters as well as sympathizers, putting China on the wrong side of much of the world. In some cases, apparent neutrality is a sensible choice, but it does not apply to this war, where China has nothing to gain. Given that China has always advocated respect for national sovereignty and territorial integrity, it can avoid further isolation only by standing with the majority of the countries in the world. This position is also conducive to the settlement of the Taiwan issue.

3. China should achieve the greatest possible strategic breakthrough and not be further isolated by the West. Cutting off from Putin and giving up neutrality will help build China's international image and ease its relations with the U.S. and the West. Though difficult and requiring great wisdom, it is the best option for the future. The view that a geopolitical tussle in Europe triggered by the war in Ukraine will significantly delay the U.S. strategic shift from Europe to the Indo-Pacific region cannot be treated with excessive optimism. There are already voices in the U.S. that Europe is important, but China is more so, and the primary goal of the U.S. is to contain China from becoming the dominant power in the Indo-Pacific region. Under such circumstances, China's top priority is to make appropriate strategic adjustments accordingly, to change the hostile American attitudes towards China, and to save itself from isolation. The bottom line is to prevent the U.S. and the West from imposing joint sanctions on China.

4. China should prevent the outbreak of world wars and nuclear wars and make irreplaceable contributions to world peace. As Putin has explicitly requested Russia's strategic deterrent forces to enter a state of special combat readiness, the Russo-Ukrainian war may spiral out of control. A just cause attracts much support; an unjust one finds little. If Russia instigates a world war or even a nuclear war, it will surely risk the world's turmoil. To demonstrate China's role as a responsible major power, China not only cannot stand with Putin, but also should take concrete actions to prevent Putin's possible adventures. China is the only country in the world with this capability, and it must give full play to this unique advantage. Putin's departure from China's support will most likely end the war, or at least not dare to escalate the war. As a result, China will surely win widespread international praise for maintaining world peace, which may help China prevent isolation but also find an opportunity to improve its relations with the United States and the West.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2022, 07:24:37 AM
Thanks for the link.  On this site we ask for proof or at least links to support your position. My "aggressiveness" is simply questioning your list of allegations without any kind of proof or evidence to actually agree or disagree with.

It's no secret Ukraine has had struggles in the past with corruption and extremist groups on the left, right, russian, euro... In the past few years they have made progress eliminating their influence. Clearly Russia has grabbed the fact that there are "neonazi" elements within Ukraine as a pretext to invade and destroy a democratic elected government... (A Jewish president btw) Neonazi groups are present in virtually all democracies... including this one.

Putin's use of "de nazification" is simply an excuse or pretext to invade. He did the same in Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea, and the Ukrainian Donbas region. He found an excuse or pretext to invade and absorb those territories... same thing here I-10.  Don't drink the kool-aid...

Quote from: Snaketoz on March 16, 2022, 09:38:42 AM
BT, Post #123 is your best post to date.  Good reading and sensible. Thanks.

QuoteInside the secret transfer of military equipment to Ukrainian soldiers
BY STEVE HENDRIX • THE WASHINGTON POST • MARCH 18, 2022

ON THE POLAND-UKRAINE BORDER — There were no passport officers on the dirt road, no customs lane, no signs marking this isolated patch of farmland for what it has become: a clandestine gateway for military supplies entering Ukraine.

"No pictures, no pictures," shouted a Polish border guard as a convoy of 17 trucks hissed to a halt on a biting morning earlier this week.

Not far from here was a Ukrainian military base where at least 35 people had been killed a few days earlier by a Russian missile barrage, and no one wanted to call attention to this ad hoc border crossing. Washington Post journalists were directed to turn off the geolocation function of their cameras.

The convoy was carrying 45 vehicles — retrofitted Jeeps, ambulances, an armored bank truck and an army field kitchen — as well as 24 tons of diesel. It had traveled overnight from Lithuania as part of a swelling supply network racing to catch up with the return of war to Europe. More than a dozen volunteer drivers, including one whose relief work was normally limited to helping motorists stranded on the highway, had driven hood-to-taillight almost around-the-clock to rendezvous with Ukrainian fighters.

While governments negotiate over fighter jets and high-end weapon systems, soldiers on the ground are struggling to fill more basic needs. With Ukraine's own factories shut down by shelling, its forces rely increasingly on volunteer, pop-up supply chains like this one for vital gear, including body armor, medical supplies and the pickup trucks and SUVs they covet as fighting vehicles.

A second convoy was scheduled to arrive later in the day, packed with generators, radios, surveillance drones, night-vision gear and, most coveted of all, almost 7,000 bulletproof vests and helmets. For the soldiers, it is a lifeline.

"That is what we need the most," said Lt. Andrey Bystriyk, one of the many Ukrainian fighters who had traveled across his war-ravaged country to meet the convoys. His blue eyes teared up when he talked about the aid pouring in from neighboring countries.

"From the army, we get the gun and the ammunition and the uniform," he said. "But under the uniform, what we eat, what keeps us safe, how we move around and fight — that comes from the people, our people and foreign people."

The journey began hundreds of miles to the north in a warehouse in Lithuania, a country not usually thought of as a military supply hub.

But this tiny Baltic nation has seen a huge outpouring of support for Ukraine, imagining what Russian President Vladimir Putin might have in store for it should he prevail in his current invasion. Vilnius, Lithuania's small medieval-era capital, is filled with blue and yellow Ukrainian flags.

Much of the donated money and supplies has flowed to Blue and Yellow, a nonprofit founded in 2014 to supply Ukrainians fighting the takeover of eastern Ukraine by Russian-backed separatists. Now the group is the focal point of a country's yearning to help.

"It has just exploded," said Jonas Ohman, a Swedish-born filmmaker who started the group.

For years, Ohman said, he took no salary and had no paid staff as he fulfilled direct requests from front-line units with an annual budget of less than $200,000. Since the invasion last month, more than $20 million has poured in from within Lithuania, a country of 2.8 million residents. He is dispatching a convoy to the border every four or five days.

With a cellphone held against a days-old beard, Ohman orders military gear by the ton from around Europe, China, Israel. He argues with customs officials in a half-dozen countries to get the shipments delivered, railing against functionaries who block his way and officers who are slaves to regulation.

"I tell them all the time: 10,000 euros can be more deadly than a million if you know how to spend it," he growled between phone calls.

Ohman has filled one donated warehouse on the outskirts of Poland's capital, Warsaw. Another in Vilnius, provided by a Lithuanian transport company, has become a drop-off site for locals wanting to give.

"These will work," one volunteer declared on a recent afternoon when a truck arrived at the Vilnius warehouse with 800 pairs of new steel-toed boots and 1,000 fleece jackets still in the wrapper, all donated by a hunting goods retailer.

A forklift unloaded the cases, depositing them next to 14 pallets of IV saline solutions and boxes filled with 13,000 trauma tourniquets and 200 satellite phones.

A local marketing company has launched a fundraising campaign for the group. And a group of Rotary Club volunteers makes calls to military suppliers in surrounding countries.

"Everything in Europe is selling out," said Zemyna Bliumenzonaite, a Blue and Yellow staffer. "But we are getting more requests than ever."

She held out her phone to show some of the texts she gets from soldiers in Ukraine. One named "Kruk" asked for 1,000 tourniquets and 40 individual first aid kits. She tells him they will be in the next convoy.

"You are our Guardian Angel," he writes back.

"I heard they needed bigger vehicles and four-wheel drives," said Dainius Navikas, 43, a Vilnius management consultant who immediately thought of his black 2015 Grand Cherokee. "I had no choice. The Ukrainians are fighting for us."

Navikas and wife drove the Jeep — along with an extra set of winter tires — to a designated garage on the outskirts of the Lithuanian capital. They found a lot packed with dozens of vehicles ready to be processed and shipped to Ukraine.

Some had been signed over by their owners. Others had been bought by Blue and Yellow.

"When they hear we are buying for Ukraine, a lot them of them drop the price immediately," said Lukas Pacevicius, the owner of the garage, who has largely suspended his regular business activities.

Working overnights and weekends, mechanics check the engines, sending them out to transmission or brake shops if needed. Armor plating is welded to some of the pickups, following specifications provided by the soldiers.

On a recent day, dozens of volunteers were scrambling around the vehicles, covering their windows and headlights with paper and masking tape ahead of repainting the bodies. Workers dodged the vehicles as they were shuttled from one part of the line to another.

Two men wearing Tyvek suits and respirators, well practiced in painting and not too fastidious, transformed Navikas's glossy black Grand Cherokee into a dull green patrol vehicle in under 20 minutes. And then a Mercedes Sprinter, and then a Nissan Pathfinder. An olive mist hung over the entire workshop.

"We want to cover every reflective surface, even the bumpers and wheels," said Rolandas Jundo, the owner of a sign company who was applying window tinting to a Land Rover that still reeked of paint.

Three days later, gassed up with donated fuel, most of the vehicles were driven onto car carriers. Two local tow trucks hitched up four more vehicles. Four men wrangled a military mobile kitchen into a panel truck.

With the sun still high, the convoy pulled out, flanked by a pair of Lithuanian police cars. Just outside of Vilnius, a group of people on a pedestrian bridge shouted and pumped their fists when the odd parade rolled under.

"It feels very important," said one of the drivers, who like several volunteers spoke on the condition of anonymity due to a combination of modesty and security concerns. "We still have a lot of crazy Fifth-Column types around," said another driver, referring to Russian sympathizers.

The convoy moved as fast as its slowest truck, about 50 miles an hour on average. At a gas station just before the Polish border, Lithuanian police handed off to their Polish counterparts. Sometime after 2 a.m., everyone pulled into a rest area north of Warsaw for two hours of sleep.

By dawn, forests had given way to rolling fields. The police escort kept their lights flashing and sounded their sirens as the trucks rumbled through red lights. Surprised locals stared from village sidewalks.

Nineteen hours and many cans of Red Bull later, the convoy pulled up at the unmarked entrance to Ukraine.

Bystriyk, an officer with the Zaporizhzhia Territorial Defense Brigade, had just endured his own all-night drive to reach the rendezvous. His was one of about 20 Ukrainian units, both regular military and volunteer militia, that had dispatched representatives to meet the convoy.

Bystriyk had driven about 11 hours from the area around the besieged city of Dnipro in eastern Ukraine in hopes of getting vehicles and an upgrade on the body armor that most of his men now wear: homemade vests cobbled together by local residents with steel and canvas. "They try to bend it like a body shape, but it doesn't work," he said.

It would take about 3,000 sets of body armor to fully outfit his men, Bystriyk said. He had been told he might get as many as 400 when the second expected convoy arrived. In the meantime, he eagerly eyed the vehicles that were carried by the first one.

"Stingers and Javelins are critical of course," he said of the antiaircraft and antitank missiles. "But for us, these vehicles are essential. They are our firepower, our mobility."

Ukrainian soldiers drove them to a spot where border officials would fill out paperwork and then the vehicles would be distributed. One soldier made a beeline for a brand new CForce quad ATV — to be used in cavalry-like raids by Ukrainian Special Forces — and rode off with a grin.

Bystriyk looked for a truck that his men could mount with a rocket launcher or machine gun, creating one of the "specials" common with fighters in Libya, Syria and other recent hot spots. There weren't as many pickups as in a delivery a week earlier, but he was glad to see Pathfinders, Freelanders, Pajeros.

Videos posted by Ukrainian fighters on social media show teams in SUVs like these outmaneuvering Russian armored vehicles, popping out from forests or side streets to hit them with rocket-propelled grenades and dashing away.

"Every day the Russians try to enter Zaporizhzhia and every day we have stopped them," Bystriyk. "We need these cars. And we are thankful the Lithuanians are bringing them."

In the end, Bystriyk was satisfied with a beefy Nissan Patrol to drive back to the war. But he learned that the convoy with the vests and helmets would be delayed because of a customs hang-up.

He would be back at this unlikely supply site, he knew. Probably many times.

"We need a lot," he said. "And the need is still growing."

QuoteThere are five characteristics of an authoritarian approach to counterinsurgency. First, authoritarian regimes have a stronger grip on information than democracies. While these regimes are not immune to dissent, their control of information offers a powerful tool for protecting their hold on power and silencing critics.

Second, and related, an authoritarian state's monopoly on information can be used for mobilizing mass support at home for even the most brutal of campaigns. Key here is that in the logic of the authoritarian approach, information operations focus on selling the threat of the insurgency to domestic audiences and not on winning over the hearts and minds of the local population. The aim is to demonstrate the necessity of the use of force against insurgents and their supporters.

Third is the deliberate use of massive and often indiscriminate violence. This seeks to prevent the insurgents from mobilizing popular support while simultaneously augmenting governmental control. The fragmentation of society that results from such violence denies opponents the ability to build or sustain solid ties with local communities. For this purpose, "coercive engineered migrations" might also be adopted. As a result, the insurgency will become more isolated as it is deprived of popular support and sanctuary.

Fourth is the concept of "Holding, Suppressing, Controlling." This effectively boils down to the imposition of a police state. Physical control of territory and people gives the state the ability to monitor cooperation and trumps achieving any sense of legitimacy among the local population. When satisfied with the level of control, locally recruited paramilitary, police, and intelligence forces will gradually take over from the armed forces. This is all about imposing and sustaining an effective apparatus for punishing any dissent as swiftly and severely as possible in order to achieve a deterrent effect.

Finally, even authoritarian governments have to persuade the population to accept the new balance of power. They typically do so by interposing the state in every local societal transaction and activity and thus rendering it indispensable to public life.

Quote from: MusicMan on March 31, 2022, 06:10:22 PM
At least Russian State Media is finally acknowledging Trump as a "partner."  In ordinary times that would sink any hope at re-election (or nomination for that matter). Unfortunately, with folks like Tucker Carlson informing the GOP base, it's a superlative.

I agree Biden said what every sane person is thinking. He should stick to it no matter.

Quote from: MusicMan on April 01, 2022, 09:14:30 AM
I'm not cherry picking. There's a ton of evidence from the last 6 years that clearly illustrates the chummy relationship between Trump and Putin. Even portions of Faux News is basically being re-broadcast in Russia as pro-Putin propaganda. Verbatim broadcasts. I have no idea who is pushing this narrative at Fox, or how they think they will benefit (i.e. damaging Biden).  But that's the facts.

QuoteMoscow says shelling of Kramatorsk by Ukraine confirms Russian operation is justified

The Russian Foreign Ministry expressed confidence that Kiev won't be able to evade responsibility for the shelling of civilians in Kramatorsk
MOSCOW, April 8. /TASS/. The Russian Foreign Ministry on Friday said that evidence is obvious that Ukraine's armed forces are responsible for striking a railway station in Kramatorsk with a Tochka-U missile and these inhumane acts by the Kiev regime confirm that the goals of the Russian special operation are justified.

"Cold-bloodedly and cynically destroying the civilian population, Kiev is trying to shift the responsibility to the Russian side in order to discredit the special military operation to protect the DPR and LPR," the ministry said in a statement. "Evidence of the responsibility of the armed forces of Ukraine is obvious: it is they who are armed with and use the Tochka-U missiles, the fragments of which were found at the site of the tragedy."

"Such inhuman actions of the Kiev regime confirm the validity of the goals of the special military operation to demilitarize and de-Nazify Ukraine," the statement went on to say.

The ministry said the strike on the Kramatorsk railway station on April 8 was delivered by the Ukrainian armed forces. "A similar barbaric act of aggression was committed by the armed forces of Ukraine on March 14 of this year, when, a strike by a similar Tochka-U missile in the center of Donetsk killed 17 people and wounded another 36 people," the ministry said. "In both cases, the target of the shelling was not accidental: the Kiev regime seeks to maximize civilian casualties. Killing them in Donbass over the past eight years has become a routine for the Ukrainian military units."

The Russian Foreign Ministry expressed confidence that Kiev won't be able to evade responsibility for the shelling of civilians in Kramatorsk. "We are confident that the Kiev authorities will not be able to evade responsibility," the statement said. "We call on the international community to give an unbiased assessment of the crimes of Ukrainian units, stop supplying them with weapons and encourage Kiev to abandon unacceptable methods of warfare."

QuoteUkrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky declared Tuesday that, when the war is finally over, Ukraine would emerge from the rubble a "big Israel."

He meant that the war would never really be over, that Ukraine would be on a permanent war footing, just as the Jewish state is. He meant that it would view its neighbors the way Israel has long viewed its own: As enemies waiting to pounce. Most importantly, he meant that Ukraine would never again rely on anyone else for its security: not the West, not the international community, not the so-called liberal order. It would be, like Israel, a nation apart, answering to no one but its people, in control of its own destiny....

Quote from: MusicMan on April 12, 2022, 02:51:31 PM
I am hoping Ukraine finds some black market cruise missiles and fires them at ........ the Kremlin?  Maybe some smoking ruins in Moscow will show the Russian's being bombarded isn't a lot of fun.

Does Russia ban/control/restrict internet access for it's citizens the way China does?

QuoteRussian news agency TASS version of Kramatorsk attack...

https://tass.com/defense/1435103

Quote
Moscow says shelling of Kramatorsk by Ukraine confirms Russian operation is justified

The Russian Foreign Ministry expressed confidence that Kiev won't be able to evade responsibility for the shelling of civilians in Kramatorsk
MOSCOW, April 8. /TASS/. The Russian Foreign Ministry on Friday said that evidence is obvious that Ukraine's armed forces are responsible for striking a railway station in Kramatorsk with a Tochka-U missile and these inhumane acts by the Kiev regime confirm that the goals of the Russian special operation are justified.

"Cold-bloodedly and cynically destroying the civilian population, Kiev is trying to shift the responsibility to the Russian side in order to discredit the special military operation to protect the DPR and LPR," the ministry said in a statement. "Evidence of the responsibility of the armed forces of Ukraine is obvious: it is they who are armed with and use the Tochka-U missiles, the fragments of which were found at the site of the tragedy."

"Such inhuman actions of the Kiev regime confirm the validity of the goals of the special military operation to demilitarize and de-Nazify Ukraine," the statement went on to say.

The ministry said the strike on the Kramatorsk railway station on April 8 was delivered by the Ukrainian armed forces. "A similar barbaric act of aggression was committed by the armed forces of Ukraine on March 14 of this year, when, a strike by a similar Tochka-U missile in the center of Donetsk killed 17 people and wounded another 36 people," the ministry said. "In both cases, the target of the shelling was not accidental: the Kiev regime seeks to maximize civilian casualties. Killing them in Donbass over the past eight years has become a routine for the Ukrainian military units."

The Russian Foreign Ministry expressed confidence that Kiev won't be able to evade responsibility for the shelling of civilians in Kramatorsk. "We are confident that the Kiev authorities will not be able to evade responsibility," the statement said. "We call on the international community to give an unbiased assessment of the crimes of Ukrainian units, stop supplying them with weapons and encourage Kiev to abandon unacceptable methods of warfare."

QuoteApril 27, 8pm ET



Russian forces made minor but steady advances both from Izyum and in continued assaults along the line of contact in eastern Ukraine on April 27. Russian forces took several small towns directly west of Izyum in the past 24 hours. While this line of advance takes Russian forces away from their main objective of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, they likely intend to outflank Ukrainian defensive positions on the highways to Barvinkove and Slovyansk. Russian forces made several small advances in eastern Ukraine; Russia's increasing concentration of artillery assets is likely enabling these tactical advances. Russian forces are advancing methodically in several sectors but have achieved no notable breakthroughs. The capability of Russian forces to encircle large groups of Ukrainian forces remains in doubt.

The Kremlin continued to prepare for a likely false-flag missile attack against the Moldovan territory of Transnistria, which is illegally occupied by Russian forces. Russian proxies in Transnistria falsely claimed Ukrainian forces are preparing to attack Transnistria, and Ukrainian intelligence reported Russian forces are preparing to conduct a missile strike on Transnistria and blame Ukraine. Russian and Transnistrian forces also increased their readiness for possible operations in the last 24 hours. Russia may intend to involve Transnistria in the war in Ukraine to utilize Transnistria's (limited) reserve forces or to launch attacks and shell Ukraine from Transnistrian territory. The Kremlin may alternatively seek to destabilize Moldova itself to raise tensions in Moldova and neighboring Romania and put additional pressure on NATO, possibly seeking to reduce Western military support to Ukraine either by diverting NATO forces to Romania or threatening a wider escalation.

Russian forces are stepping up "filtration measures" in occupied territories and abducting Ukrainian citizens, likely for use in future prisoner exchanges. Ukraine's Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on April 27 that Russian forces are conducting large-scale "filtration measures" in Kharkiv, Zaporizhia, Kherson, Mykolaiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk Oblasts.[1] The "filtration" targets men of military age, former military and law enforcement personnel, and pro-Ukrainian activists for interrogation, torture, and possible execution. The GUR reported Russian forces are additionally shipping Ukrainian hostages to Crimea to "replenish the exchange fund," seeking to exchange Ukrainian civilians for Russian military prisoners in future prisoner swaps. The GUR additionally speculated that Russian forces may be preparing to use Ukrainian civilians to portray Prisoners of War in May 9th Victory Day celebrations, noting that Russian forces conducted similar propaganda efforts in Donetsk in 2014.

Ukrainian forces likely conducted drone or possibly missile strikes on Russian logistics centers in Belgorod and Voronezh on April 27. Russian sources and social media reported multiple explosions early on April 27, which Ukrainian Presidential Advisor Mikhail Podolyak later euphemistically confirmed were Ukrainian strikes, stating Russian cities cannot "sit out" the invasion of Ukraine and "the disarmament of the Belgorod-Voronezh warehouses is a natural process."[2] Ukrainian forces will likely conduct further cross-border strikes to disrupt Russian logistics, which the Kremlin will likely falsely frame as an escalation or somehow a war crime.

Key Takeaways

Concentrated artillery is likely enabling limited Russian advances in eastern Ukraine, though Russian forces continue to struggle to break through prepared Ukrainian defenses.
Russian forces funneled additional reinforcements and tactical missile units into the Izyum front and made minor advances. Russian forces are likely attempting to bypass Ukrainian forces on the road to Barvinkove by advancing directly west before pivoting southwards in the coming days.
Heavy Russian bombardment and continued assaults failed to make headway against Ukrainian defenders in Mariupol's Azovstal plant, even as Russian forces reportedly prepared to stage a press tour in the occupied areas of the city on April 28.
Russian forces around Kherson are likely preparing for a renewed push to capture the entirety of Kherson Oblast in the coming days but Ukrainian counterattacks continue to disrupt Russian operations in the area.
Russian occupation forces continued preparations to announce the creation of a Russian proxy "Kherson People's Republic" (KNR) amid widespread Ukrainian resistance.
The Kremlin may be preparing to either bring Transnistria into the war in Ukraine or destabilize Moldova itself to put additional pressure on NATO.

QuoteDirectorate (GUR) reported that Transnistria is preparing to fully staff its military units and increase their readiness.[20] Ukraine's Operational Command "South" reported on April 27-28 that Russia is "systematically" conducting provocations in Transnistria and creating the false threat of an attack from Ukraine.[21] Transnistrian President Vadim Krasnoselsky ordered Transnistria's Ministry of Internal Affairs to "be ready for any scenario" on April 28, but (likely falsely) denied Moldovan government reports that Transnistrian authorities are preventing men of fighting age from leaving the region.[22]

QuoteMay 1, 6:15 ET

Russian forces are setting conditions to establish permanent control over the areas of southern Ukraine they currently occupy, either as nominally independent "People's Republics" or by annexing them to Russia. Russian sources reported that stores in occupied Melitopol and Volnovakha are beginning to transition to using the Russian ruble.[1] British Defense Intelligence reported that the ruble will be used in Kherson City starting on May 1 as part of a 4-month currency transition scheme enacted by the occupation administration.[2] These measures, which are not necessary or normal in military occupation administrations, indicate that Russian President Vladimir Putin likely intends to retain control over these areas and that his ambitions are not confined to Donbas.

Quote from: MusicMan on May 02, 2022, 10:38:51 AM
Pelosi visits Zelensky in Kyiv. At 82, she's got more balls than the entire Republican caucus.  Also like the fact she took Jason Crow. Former Army Ranger and a Democrat, out of Colorado. They have to put some fresh faces into public view. This guy could take on DSantis and would not be bullied around.

Quote from: MusicMan on May 02, 2022, 08:01:53 PM
Zoom calls don't count..

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/03/gop-senators-share-photos-zelensky-call-ukraine.html

QuoteApril 14, 2022, 10:06 PM EDT
By Zoë Richards
A pair of Republican lawmakers traveled to Kyiv on Thursday, making them the first U.S. officials known to have visited Ukraine since Russia invaded in late February.

Sen. Steve Daines of Montana, who shared photos of the trip, and Rep. Victoria Spartz of Indiana visited the Kyiv suburbs and mass graves in nearby Bucha. Daines said the world needed to see what Russian President Vladimir Putin had done....

QuoteABYSMAL MORALE AND POOR LEADERSHIP CONTINUE TO TORMENT RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE
TIM MCMILLAN. MAY 11, 2022

On Monday, a senior official from the U.S. Defense Department said Russia's military continues to struggle with low morale, and Russian officers are now refusing to obey orders.

In a background briefing at the Pentagon, the senior official said anecdotal reports of poor morale among Russian troops and indications that some military officers are disobeying orders to move are likely key factors in Russia's lack of success in its current campaign against Ukraine.

Cautioning that reports were anecdotal, the defense official said Russian leadership appeared to lack "sound command and control" on the battlefield.

"These are typically like, you know, mid-grade officers, you know, at various levels, even up to the battalion level where...some of these officers have either refused to obey orders or not obeying them with the same measure of alacrity that you would expect an officer to obey," added the senior DoD official.

Shortly after Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, poor morale exacerbated by fuel and food shortages led some Russian units to surrender without a fight when confronted by unexpectedly stiff Ukrainian opposition.

According to a Pentagon press briefing on March 1, intelligence indicated some Russian troops were even sabotaging their own vehicles to keep from going into combat.

Colonel Yury Medvedev, commander of the 37th Separate Guards Motor Rifle Brigade, was reportedly killed when one of his soldiers ran over him with a tank late in March. According to Western intelligence officials and Ukrainian journalist Roman Tsymbaliuk, the soldier was disgruntled over the significant losses to the unit.

President Vladimir Putin dispatched Russia's highest-ranking military officer and Chief of the General Staff, Valery Gerasimov, to Ukraine in early May to change the course of Russia's beleaguered offensive and boost troops' dwindling willingness to fight.

However, shortly after General Gerasimov arrived, the Ukrainian military attacked a key Russian command center near the eastern city of Izyum, reportedly killing roughly 200 senior-level Russian troops, including Major General Andrei Simonov.

Unconfirmed reports have suggested that Gerasimov was wounded in the strike. However, citing a senior Ukrainian official, the New York Times reported Gerasimov was already returning to Russia when Ukrainian rockets hit the command post.

Gerasimov was notably missing at Russia's big Victory Day parade on May 9. In past years, Gerasimov and Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu were typically at Putin's side for the large-scale celebrations of the 1945 victory over Nazi Germany in WW2.

The incident with Gerasimov almost being taken out in a Ukrainian missile strike and subsequent disappearance, have likely had the opposite intended affect on Russian troop morale.

Phone calls intercepted by Ukraine's Security Service (SBU) provide additional, behind-the-scenes insight into the abysmal morale problems as Russia struggles to continue its invasion.

In one recording, a Russian troop tells a fellow soldier that his regiment only has one tank left after nine others had been destroyed by Ukraine. The soldier urges his comrade to sabotage the lone remaining tank to prevent having to continue fighting.

"Fucking disassemble it and sell it for scrap metal. You'll be safer, damn it."

In another call, a Russian soldier describes how troops sabotage their own equipment and refuse to follow orders.

"Our guys pour sand into the fuel system, into the tanks, not to go on the offensive! I do not follow stupid orders. I just refuse," the soldier tells his friend. "He wanted to send me against the bloody tanks, piece of shit! I just told him to go fuck himself, and that's it."

Intercepted phone calls also reveal Russian soldiers suffering from mental breakdowns and combat fatigue.

"Yesterday, we were calming down one Ensign. had to take the gun away from him. He says, 'I'm fucking done!' He's shaking, damn it," a soldier tells his wife. "We took his fucking gun away. Guys found him today, [and] gave him back the gun. Everything is fine. Fuck, the poor guy lost his mind."

"Many more probably go nuts, don't they," ask the soldier's wife.

"I was freaking out at first, but now, nothing can be done. It's not in my power. You can refuse an order, but if you get the fuck out of here, damn it, they will open a criminal case against you. Desertion, damn it, you're screwed."

Expletive laden conversations offer glimpses of Russian soldiers' morale issues and their dissatisfaction with insufficient supplies, poor leadership, and orders to commit war crimes can also be found in

"Our Colonel came, the one we had earlier, fuck. We ask him, 'what the fuck should we do? We have no weapons, nothing," a soldier complained. "He says 'fucking shoot all the civilians.' For fucks sake! How the fuck!"

"Holy shit," replied a soldier on the other end of the phone.

"Our command, the commanders, they received provisions, like cigarettes and food, damn it. You know what they did?" the soldier added. "All our leadership fucking fled! They dumped us all and fucked off. We don't even know where they are."

The other soldier urges his colleague to just shoot his unit's commanders if they ever find them. ""Just shoot them, for fucks sake, and that's it."

The Debrief cannot independently verify the authenticity of the recordings provided by SBU. However, conversations were consistent with other on-the-ground reports.

Just recently, Russian troops from the far east republic of Buryatia did get into a shootout with fellow Russian fighters of the Chechen Republic.  The gunbattle, reportedly involving upwards of 100 soldiers, erupted near the village of Kyselivka, in the Chornobaivka territory of the Russian-occupied Kherson region after the Buryat soldiers refused to continue fighting.

Troops refusing orders to move forward have evidently become such an issue that, according to Ukraine's military intelligence agency, GUR, Chechen soldiers of Russia's 141st Special Motorized Regiment operating in rear detachments have been tasked with shooting any Russian soldiers who try to retreat.

Confirming the claims, in another call intercepted by SBU, a Chechen soldier tells his wife not to worry because he's operating behind the front lines in an "anti-retreat squad."

"Our task is to chase back [to battle] those lousy soldiers when they start to scatter around after artillery strikes," the Chechen soldier tells his wife.

Recorded calls reveal that some Russian troops have a relatively low opinion of the Chechen soldiers.

In one conversation, a Russian soldier mocks the Chechen fighters for filming videos of themselves and only being concerned with looting. In another call, a soldier tells his friend about how Chechen soldiers stole his gun.

"They came, as they said, to pray: 'Let us in, bro, we're friends, doing reconnaissance.' I let them in, damn it. While he was praying, he swiped my PM [Makarov pistol]! They jumped in a car and fucking left."

Assuredly not helping morale problems, the soldier complains about being made to dig trenches as punishment for losing his weapon and worries that he'll be killed if he doesn't find it. "And if I don't find it, I'll be killed! And they will write me off because 'I'm missing,' disappeared after a reconnaissance mission against the 'Ukrops' [Ukrainian defenders]."

"And this fucking Kadyrov unit, they're just retarded, and that's it," a soldier tells his mother. 

In a reportedly intercepted text message shared by SBU, a Russian regimental commander fighting near Izium described how he tried shooting some of his "completely demoralized" soldiers after failing to "get them up morally or physically."

When asked to describe the current status of Russia's military campaign to seize the Donbas region, a senior Pentagon official replied, "I would not characterize it as successful, not at all. They really haven't achieved any significant progress on the lines of access that they had anticipated achieving in the Northern Donbas."

"They are being resisted very effectively by the Ukrainians. Incremental and somewhat anemic is how I would describe it so far." 

QuoteRussian forces made gains in the Rubizhne-Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area and intensified efforts to capture Severodonetsk on May 21. Russian troops blew up a bridge across the Severskyi Donetsk River between Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, setting conditions to sever Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) and take  Severodonetsk.[4] Pro-Russian milbloggers wrote about the beginning of the Battle of Severodonetsk on May 20 and claimed that Russian forces are closing in on the area from the north, east, and south.[5] The milbloggers emphasized the importance of disrupting Ukrainian GLOCs between Lysychansk and Severodonetsk, which are facilitated by at least two major bridges across the Severskyi Donetsk River. Russian forces' destruction of at least one of the two bridges between the two towns will likely hinder Ukrainian GLOCs to Severodonetsk and indicate a Russian effort to encircle the city.[6] Russian forces reportedly conducted attacks against several towns around Popasna, which may allow them to push northward toward Severodonetsk.[7] Russian claims about their gains around Popasna remain unconfirmed by open sources as of the time of this publication.[8]

QuoteMay 27, 7:30pm ET

Russian forces began direct assaults on Severodonetsk on May 27 despite not yet having fully encircled the town. Russian forces have performed poorly in operations in built-up urban terrain throughout the war to date and are unlikely to be able to advance rapidly in Severodonetsk itself. Russian forces continue to make steady and incremental gains around the city but have not yet encircled the Ukrainian defenders. Ukrainian forces continue to maintain defenses across eastern Ukraine and have slowed most Russian lines of advance. Russian forces will likely continue to make incremental advances and may succeed in encircling Severodonetsk in the coming days, but Russian operations around Izyum remain stalled and Russian forces will likely be unable to increase the pace of their advances.

Key Takeaways

Russian forces began direct assaults on built-up areas of Severodonetsk without having fully encircled the city and will likely struggle to take ground in the city itself.
Russian forces in Lyman appear to be dividing their efforts—attacking both southwest to support stalled forces in Izyum and southeast to advance on Siversk; they will likely struggle to accomplish either objective in the coming days.
Russian forces in Popasna seek to advance north to support the encirclement of Severodonestk rather than advancing west toward Bakhmut.
Positions northeast of Kharkiv City remain largely static, with no major attacks by either Russian or Ukrainian forces.
Russian forces continue to fortify their defensive positions along the southern axis and advance efforts to integrate the Kherson region into Russian economic and political structures. 

Quote
Russia's stated objectives in its invasion of Ukraine remain regime change in Kyiv and the truncation of the sovereignty of any Ukrainian state that survives the Russian attack despite Russian military setbacks and rhetoric hinting at a reduction in war aims following those defeats. Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev stated on July 5 that the Russian military operation in Ukraine will continue until Russia achieves its goals of protecting civilians from "genocide," "denazifying" and demilitarizing Ukraine, and obliging Ukraine to be permanently neutral between Russia and NATO—almost exactly restating the goals Russian President Vladimir Putin announced in his February 24 speech justifying the war.[1] Putin had stated that the operation aimed to protect civilians from humiliation and genocide, demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, and prosecute genocidal perpetrators.[2] Patrushev's explicit restatement of Putin's initial objectives, nearly five months later, strongly indicates that the Kremlin does not consider recent Russian gains in Luhansk Oblast sufficient to accomplish the initial goals of the "special operation," supporting ISW's ongoing assessment that the Kremlin has significant territorial aspirations beyond the Donbas. Patrushev's statement suggests that Russian military leadership will continue to push for advances outside Donetsk and Luhansk blasts and that the Kremlin is preparing for a protracted war with the intention of taking much larger portions of Ukraine.[3]

Patrushev's statement is noteworthy because of its timing and his position as a close confidante of Putin. Patrushev is very unlikely to stray far from Putin's position in his public comments given his relationship with Putin and his role in the Kremlin. His restatement of virtually the same maximalist objectives that Putin laid out before the invasion even as Russian forces seemed to be closing in on the more limited objectives of securing Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts—which Putin and other Russian leaders had hinted were their new aims following their defeats around Kyiv—strongly suggests that those hints did not reflect any actual change in Kremlin policy. Patrushev's statement significantly increases the burden on those who suggest that some compromise ceasefire or even peace based on limited additional Russian territorial gains is possible, even if it were acceptable to Ukraine or desirable for the West (neither of which is the case).

Igor Girkin, a Russian nationalist and former commander of militants in the 2014 war in Donbas, responded to Patrushev's statements and continued expressing his general disillusionment with the Kremlin's official line on operations in Ukraine. Girkin said that the intended goals of "denazification" and "de-militarization" will only be possible with the total defeat of the Ukrainian military and the surrender of the Ukrainian government.[4] Girkin noted that Russian victory is premised on the capture of "Novorossiya"—a notional territory that encompasses eight Ukrainian oblasts, including the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts and much of eastern and southern Ukraine. Girkin also claimed that the capture of "Novorossiya" is the bare minimum and that Russian goals will be realized through the total capture of "Malorossiya," which is an invocation of the Russian imperial concept for almost all Ukrainian territory. Girkin is once again pushing back on the Kremlin line, which he views as insufficient in securing Russian objectives in Ukraine. Luhansk People's Republic (LNR) Ambassador to Russia Rodion Miroshnik similarly suggested that the Kremlin has not yet met its goals in Ukraine, despite reaching the borders of his claimed oblast, and stated that LNR authorities are still not confident in the security of the LNR.[5] Girkin and Miroshnik's statements, taken together, indicate that Russian nationalists continue to push for further territorial gains and, at least in Girkin's case, full-scale regime change and the incorporation of most of Ukraine into Russia. Patrushev's statement suggests that Kremlin thinking may not be that far removed from these extremist nationalist ambitions. 

QuoteRussian government sources confirmed that Russia is bringing Ukrainian children to Russia and having Russian families adopt them. Russian federal subject (region) Krasnodar Krai's Family and Childhood Administration posted about a program under which Russian authorities transferred over 1,000 children from Mariupol to Tyumen, Irkutsk, Kemerov, and Altay Krai where Russian families have adopted them.[1] The Administration stated that over 300 children are still waiting to "meet their new families" and that citizens who decide to adopt these children will be provided with a one-time bonus by the state.[2] Ukraine's Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) additionally reported that Russian officials transferred 30 Ukrainian children from Khartsyzk, Ilovaysk, and Zuhres in occupied Donetsk Oblast to Nizhny Novgorod under the guise of having the children participate in youth educational-training programs.[3] The forcible transfer of children of one group to another "with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group" is a violation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.[4]

Quote from: BridgeTroll on September 29, 2022, 09:02:21 AM
Seabed warfare is a reality... and everyone and everything is vulnerable.

http://www.hisutton.com/4th-Leak-in-NordStream-Attack.html

https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

Quote from: JPalmer on October 03, 2022, 01:21:34 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on September 29, 2022, 09:02:21 AM
Seabed warfare is a reality... and everyone and everything is vulnerable.

http://www.hisutton.com/4th-Leak-in-NordStream-Attack.html

https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

We all know this is Russia sabotaging their own source of income...

QuoteRussia continues to conduct massive, forced deportations of Ukrainians that likely amount to a deliberate ethnic cleansing campaign in addition to apparent violations of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Russian Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin stated on October 14 that "several thousand" children from Kherson Oblast are "already in other regions of Russia, resting in rest homes and children's camps."[1] As ISW has previously reported, Russian authorities openly admitted to placing children from occupied areas of Ukraine up for adoption with Russian families in a manner that may constitute a violation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.[2]

Russian authorities may additionally be engaged in a wider campaign of ethnic cleansing by depopulating Ukrainian territory through deportations and repopulating Ukrainian cities with imported Russian citizens. Ethnic cleansing has not in itself been specified as a crime under international law but has been defined by the United Nations Commission of Experts on violations of humanitarian law committed on the territory of the former Yugoslavia as "rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area" and "a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas."[3] According to the UN definition, ethnic cleansing may be carried out by forcible removal, among other methods.[4] These definitions of ethnic cleansing campaigns are consistent with reports of the forcible deportation and adoption of Ukrainian children, as well as reports by Ukrainian sources that reconstruction projects in Mariupol are intended to house "tens of thousands of Russians" who will move to Mariupol.[5]

QuoteStill, there remain hardliners like Pavel Gubarev, Russia's puppet leader in Donetsk, who voiced his real intention toward Ukrainians: "We aren't coming to kill you, but to convince you. But if you don't want to be convinced, we'll kill you. We'll kill as many as we have to: 1 million, 5 million, or exterminate all of you."

This should be the real fear of any in the West still prepared to waffle over 100% support of Ukraine and its people.

QuoteWhen Russian troops fled the Ukrainian town of Balakliia last month, they left behind thousands of documents that detail the inner workings of the Russian war machine.

By MARI SAITO, MARIA TSVETKOVA and ANTON ZVEREV
Photographs by ZOHRA BENSEMRA

Filed: Oct. 26, 2022, 11 a.m. GMT

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 13, 2022, 12:29:26 PM
Informative article from Radio Free Europe...remember them?

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-winter-what-s-next-war-after-kherson/32128897.html

Quote from: JPalmer on November 14, 2022, 09:30:04 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 13, 2022, 12:29:26 PM
Informative article from Radio Free Europe...remember them?

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-winter-what-s-next-war-after-kherson/32128897.html

Radio Free Europe is a CIA operated propaganda agency...I'm sure it's objective.

QuoteNegotiations cannot end the Russian war against Ukraine; they can only pause it. The renewed Russian invasion in February 2022 after eight years of deadly "ceasefire" following the first Russian invasions of 2014 demonstrates that Russian President Vladimir Putin will not rest until he has conquered Kyiv. Ukraine's resistance to the invasion this year shows that Ukrainians will not easily surrender. The conflict is unresolvable as long as Putinism rules the Kremlin. Negotiations won't change that reality. They can only create the conditions from which Putin or a Putinist successor will contemplate renewing the attack on Ukraine's independence. Before pressing Ukraine to ask Russia for talks we must examine the terms Ukraine might offer Russia, the dangers of offering those terms, and, more importantly, the likelihood that Putin would accept them.

QuoteTARGET RUSSIA'S CAPABILITY, NOT ITS INTENT
Dec 20, 2022 - Press ISW

Nataliya Bugayova

US policy should recognize that the Kremlin's intent regarding Ukraine is maximalist, inflexible, and will not change in the foreseeable future. The West should stop expending resources trying to change a reality it does not control and focus on what it can shape plenty: denying Russia's ability to wage a war against Ukraine.

Negotiations, ceasefires, and peace deals are not off-ramps but rather on-ramps for the Kremlin to renew its attack on Ukraine in the future under conditions that advantage Russia. They are means to the same ends—full control of Ukraine and eradication of Ukraine's statehood and identity.

The vital US interest in preventing future Russian attacks on Ukraine can be best achieved by denying Russia the capability to carry out those attacks. The immediate requirement is preserving Ukraine's momentum on the battlefield—accounting for a possible renewed offensive from Russia this winter—to ensure that Ukraine secures the most advantageous position possible. The West should also eliminate Russia's ability to attack Ukraine in the future, including by denying Russia a military foothold in Ukraine from which to launch attacks, resisting "peace" deals that the Kremlin will use to buy time to reconstitute its forces, not empowering the Russian defense industrial complex with access to Western markets, and committing to building Ukraine's defensive capabilities over the long term.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on December 22, 2022, 07:35:45 AM
Opposition of Ukrainian support from the republican party affirms my decision to leave that party.  It is positively shameful.

QuoteYou know who would have loved Volodymyr Zelensky's address to Congress yesterday?

John McCain.

All through it, I couldn't stop thinking about how Zelensky's speech might as well have been a Johnnie Mac special—one of those rousing, it's always darkest before the dawn, let freedom ring numbers.

I suspect George W. Bush loved it, too.

And Reagan? Man, the Gipper would have been all over that bad boy. Especially this line:

I know that everything depends on us, on Ukrainian armed forces. Yet so much depends on the world. So much in the world depends on you.

I was thinking about all of this because of Joe Perticone's piece yesterday about the RNC chair race. There was a line from Harmeet Dhillon, who is mounting a challenge to take over the RNC, that stuck out at me. Here's what Dhillon said about the Republican party she wants to lead:

The party's base has changed. Some members of the RNC were elected during the Reagan era. I was a Reagan-era Republican, as well. But this isn't that party.

QuoteThe sun rises on 2023. Its rays light up the trench, an unwelcoming black void into which we gratefully disappear to take cover from the artillery, rockets and Iranian Shahid drones that are launched daily from the Russian positions just kilometres across the water. All around, the landscape is ragged and torn. This is the emergent topography of southern Ukraine, a land sundered by violence. Nearby, a cat wanders across an expanse of concrete — unperturbed by it all.

QuoteThe first reports about the removal of children from Ukraine to Russia appeared in the second half of March, when the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry accused Moscow of illegally transferring 2,389 minors from the Luhansk and Donetsk regions. In early June, at a meeting of the OSCE Permanent Council in Vienna, the Ukrainian delegation raised the issue of the illegal deportation to Russia of about 230,000 Ukrainian children. According to the Ukrainians, this deportation is a gross violation of international law, in particular the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948) and the Convention on the Rights of the Child (1989). 

QuoteDelays in the provision to Ukraine of Western long-range fires systems, advanced air defense systems, and tanks have limited Ukraine's ability to take advantage of opportunities for larger counter-offensive operations presented by flaws and failures in Russian military operations. 

Quote
taken steps to prevent its Starlink satellite communications service from controlling drones, which are critical to Kyiv's forces in fighting off the Russian invasion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/09/zelenskiy-aide-takes-aim-at-curbs-on-ukraine-use-of-starlink-to-pilot-drones-elon-musk

Quote from: thelakelander on February 11, 2023, 05:38:00 PM
Wow! That's crazy.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 12, 2023, 08:22:27 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on February 11, 2023, 05:38:00 PM
Wow! That's crazy.

Yeah... certainly a form of genocide...

QuoteThe Yale School of Public Health's Humanitarian Research Lab (HRL) identified 43 facilities involved in holding children from Ukraine since Russia's 24 February 2022 invasion of Ukraine. The majority are recreational camps where children are taken for ostensible vacations, while others are facilities used to house children put up for foster care or adoption in Russia. These findings indicate the majority of camps have engaged in pro-Russia re-education efforts and some camps have provided military training to children or suspended the children's return to their parents in Ukraine.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 15, 2023, 08:08:18 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 12, 2023, 08:22:27 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on February 11, 2023, 05:38:00 PM
Wow! That's crazy.

Yeah... certainly a form of genocide...

https://hub.conflictobservatory.org/portal/apps/sites/#/home/pages/children-camps-1

QuoteThe Yale School of Public Health's Humanitarian Research Lab (HRL) identified 43 facilities involved in holding children from Ukraine since Russia's 24 February 2022 invasion of Ukraine. The majority are recreational camps where children are taken for ostensible vacations, while others are facilities used to house children put up for foster care or adoption in Russia. These findings indicate the majority of camps have engaged in pro-Russia re-education efforts and some camps have provided military training to children or suspended the children's return to their parents in Ukraine.

QuoteRussian President Vladimir Putin met with Russian Federation Commissioner for Children's Rights Maria Lvova-Belova on February 16, confirming that the Kremlin is directly involved in facilitating the deportation and adoption of Ukrainian children into Russian families. During an in-person working meeting with Lvova-Belova, Putin stated that the number of applications submitted by Russian citizens for the adoption of children from Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts is growing significantly.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 17, 2023, 06:28:21 AM

QuoteRussian President Vladimir Putin met with Russian Federation Commissioner for Children's Rights Maria Lvova-Belova on February 16, confirming that the Kremlin is directly involved in facilitating the deportation and adoption of Ukrainian children into Russian families. During an in-person working meeting with Lvova-Belova, Putin stated that the number of applications submitted by Russian citizens for the adoption of children from Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts is growing significantly.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-february-16-2023

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 21, 2023, 12:35:16 PM
Seriously impressed with Bidens trip to Ukraine and his speech in Poland. The Poles know better than anyone except the Baltic states and Ukraine how oppressive and ruthless the Russians are.  The Chinese and North Koreans are no better... the world is still a dangerous place and we should be ready...

Quote from: JPalmer on February 21, 2023, 12:53:41 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 21, 2023, 12:35:16 PM
Seriously impressed with Bidens trip to Ukraine and his speech in Poland. The Poles know better than anyone except the Baltic states and Ukraine how oppressive and ruthless the Russians are.  The Chinese and North Koreans are no better... the world is still a dangerous place and we should be ready...

We should be ready for when Russia retaliates for us blowing up the NordStream Pipeline, you really believe we are the good guys?

QuoteNavalny publishes key principles of his political platform: return Crimea to Ukraine, pay reparations to Kyiv, and investigate war crimes
20 February 2023 07:15 

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 21, 2023, 01:48:46 PM
Here is what Alexei Navalny has to say if he could get out of Russian prison and run for president of Russia...

https://theins.ru/en/news/259540

QuoteNavalny publishes key principles of his political platform: return Crimea to Ukraine, pay reparations to Kyiv, and investigate war crimes
20 February 2023 07:15 

Quote from: JPalmer on February 21, 2023, 04:49:14 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 21, 2023, 01:48:46 PM
Here is what Alexei Navalny has to say if he could get out of Russian prison and run for president of Russia...

https://theins.ru/en/news/259540

QuoteNavalny publishes key principles of his political platform: return Crimea to Ukraine, pay reparations to Kyiv, and investigate war crimes
20 February 2023 07:15 

Navalny is not a hero, again, you seem to be confused who is in the wrong with this situation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/07/is-aleksei-navalny-a-liberal-or-a-nationalist/278186/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/07/is-aleksei-navalny-a-liberal-or-a-nationalist/278186/)

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 21, 2023, 01:46:32 PM

Quote from: JPalmer on February 21, 2023, 12:53:41 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 21, 2023, 12:35:16 PM
Seriously impressed with Bidens trip to Ukraine and his speech in Poland. The Poles know better than anyone except the Baltic states and Ukraine how oppressive and ruthless the Russians are.  The Chinese and North Koreans are no better... the world is still a dangerous place and we should be ready...

We should be ready for when Russia retaliates for us blowing up the NordStream Pipeline, you really believe we are the good guys?

If we did blow it up... no real evidence... I support it...  Let Putin retaliate. It will be his undoing...

I know who the aggressor nation is... I know who invaded who... I know who is kidnapping Ukrainian children... I know who is conducting missile attacks on civilians...

Honestly JPalmer... it doesn't sound like you know very much except what Trump tells you...

Quote from: Tacachale on February 21, 2023, 10:21:59 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 21, 2023, 01:46:32 PM

Quote from: JPalmer on February 21, 2023, 12:53:41 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 21, 2023, 12:35:16 PM
Seriously impressed with Bidens trip to Ukraine and his speech in Poland. The Poles know better than anyone except the Baltic states and Ukraine how oppressive and ruthless the Russians are.  The Chinese and North Koreans are no better... the world is still a dangerous place and we should be ready...

We should be ready for when Russia retaliates for us blowing up the NordStream Pipeline, you really believe we are the good guys?

If we did blow it up... no real evidence... I support it...  Let Putin retaliate. It will be his undoing...

I know who the aggressor nation is... I know who invaded who... I know who is kidnapping Ukrainian children... I know who is conducting missile attacks on civilians...

Honestly JPalmer... it doesn't sound like you know very much except what Trump tells you...

As an aside I had an argument the other day with someone critical of supporting Ukraine from the hard left perspective. It's amazing that both the MAGA folks and the tankies have essentially the same position on this issue.

QuoteRussian Offensive Campaign Assessment, February 23, 2023
Feb 23, 2023 - Press ISW

The Kremlin appears to be setting conditions for false flag operations on the Chernihiv Oblast international border and in Moldova ahead of the one-year anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Ukrainian Northern Operational Command reported on February 23 that Russian forces are preparing possible false flag operations in the international border areas of Chernihiv Oblast. The Ukrainian Northern Operational Command stated that Ukrainian intelligence has already observed Russian convoys with unmarked military equipment and personnel dressed in uniforms resembling those worn by the Ukrainian military move to areas near the Chernihiv Oblast border. The Ukrainian Northern Operational Command stated that the purpose of these false flag operations would be to accuse Ukrainian forces of violating the territorial integrity of an unspecified country, very likely referring to Belarus. The Kremlin may be preparing false flag attacks to coerce Belarus into the war following Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko's February 16 statement that Belarus would only enter the war if attacked by Ukraine. The Belarusian Ministry of Defense also notably claimed on February 21 that Belarusian forces observed a buildup of Ukrainian forces at its borders. ISW continues to assess that Belarusian or Russian attack on northern Ukrainian regions is highly unlikely, but Russia seeks to force Lukashenko's hand or blame Ukraine for expanding the war to undermine support for Kyiv. Such a false flag operation could also aim to fix Ukrainian forces at the northern border in an effort to weaken Ukrainian defenses in eastern Ukraine and preparations for counter-offensive operations.

The Kremlin also appears to be setting information conditions to stage a false flag operation in occupied Transnistria, Moldova. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed on February 23 that Ukrainian forces are planning to conduct an armed provocation against Transnistria in the near future. The MoD claimed that Ukrainian forces would dress as Russian military personnel and stage an alleged Russian offensive from positions in Transnistria.

Quote from: JPalmer on February 24, 2023, 02:24:06 PM
ISW was founded in response to the stagnation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, with core funding provided by a group of defense contractors.  According to a mission statement on its website, ISW aims to provide "real-time, government-independent, and open-source analysis of ongoing military operations and insurgent attacks". ISW currently operates as a nonprofit organization, supported in part by contributions from defense contractors including General Dynamics, DynCorp, and Raytheon. It is headquartered in Washington, D.C.

Sorry, but this "news" source seems to be a propaganda arm of the Military Industrial Complex.   

Quote from: JPalmer on February 24, 2023, 06:35:26 PM
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/12/17/bellingcat-can-say-what-u-s-intelligence-cant/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/12/17/bellingcat-can-say-what-u-s-intelligence-cant/)

Open Source "Journalism" is not journalism. Bellingcat is one of the most well-known mouthpieces of US and UK intelligence agencies. 

I suggest you read Seymour Hersh's assessment of the NordStream explosion and even furthermore his coverage of Syria

Quote from: JPalmer on February 24, 2023, 07:24:22 PM
Also, here is a narrative that hasn't been brought at all since the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.  We impeached our last president because he knew our $500M was going to a bunch of corrupt politicians under auspicious circumstances. Furthermore why does nobody seem to recall the alleged "Whistleblower" in that impeachment was Ukrainian national who could have been getting paid off for all we know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Vindman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Vindman)

Quote from: JPalmer on February 24, 2023, 07:57:47 PM
Also, you say Putin lacks a sense humanity, please feel free to watch Zelensky's response to fresh water supplies being cut-off to Ukrainians living in the Crimea peninsula.  Again, this video is Zelensky's response to fresh water being cut-off to Ukrainians. 

https://www.bitchute.com/video/60XX2vYamykn/ (https://www.bitchute.com/video/60XX2vYamykn/)

QuoteMoldova warns of Russian 'psy-ops' as tensions rise

Quote from: JPalmer on February 26, 2023, 07:22:54 AM
Now you are just deflecting which is cute.  Zelensky would have 17 years old in 1995, that video is from 2018.  The mention of Trump is to remind you that we've had arms deals with the Ukraine's long before this invasion.  We were in fact provoking this proxy war for years.

QuoteZelensky, in 2015, made fun of the people in Crimea suffering from water shortages when he was a "comedian".

Quote from: JPalmer on February 26, 2023, 08:04:35 AM
I never said he made that video as president. However, I clearly see in this video how a fully formed adult chose to make jokes about his "own people" not having access to fresh water.  Zelensky is a puppet and the people of Crimea are not treated like Ukrainians. Crimeans are treated like shit by Ukraine and deserve to be liberated at this point.

Quote from: JPalmer on February 26, 2023, 06:03:21 PM
Another state-led terrorist attack on a key piece of infrastructure would suggest otherwise.

QuoteLatvian President: 'The Dream Of A Democratic Russia' Was A Western 'Illusion'
February 27, 2023 06:22 GMT
By Vazha Tavberidze

Quote from: JPalmer on February 27, 2023, 09:13:27 AM
No, the only people who are finding new lows are the progressive left who have abandoned any semblance of an anti-war faction.  I couldn't give two craps about Trump and him losing an election.  However, I bet you keep a picture of Liz Cheney's dad in your wallet, because those are clearly your people.

Quote from: Tacachale on February 27, 2023, 12:16:44 PM

Quote from: JPalmer on February 27, 2023, 09:13:27 AM
No, the only people who are finding new lows are the progressive left who have abandoned any semblance of an anti-war faction.  I couldn't give two craps about Trump and him losing an election.  However, I bet you keep a picture of Liz Cheney's dad in your wallet, because those are clearly your people.

This little screed literally could have come verbatim from some of the left wing enablers of Putin. The horseshoe theory at work.

Anyone who's really against war and escalation should be celebrating the defense of Ukraine. For pennies on the dollar, NATO is containing one the single most dangerous regimes on the planet and kept them from invading further countries, which absolutely was coming next and absolutely would have led to a full blown war with NATO.

Quote from: JPalmer on February 27, 2023, 01:40:32 PM

Quote from: Tacachale on February 27, 2023, 12:16:44 PM

Quote from: JPalmer on February 27, 2023, 09:13:27 AM
No, the only people who are finding new lows are the progressive left who have abandoned any semblance of an anti-war faction.  I couldn't give two craps about Trump and him losing an election.  However, I bet you keep a picture of Liz Cheney's dad in your wallet, because those are clearly your people.

This little screed literally could have come verbatim from some of the left wing enablers of Putin. The horseshoe theory at work.

Anyone who's really against war and escalation should be celebrating the defense of Ukraine. For pennies on the dollar, NATO is containing one the single most dangerous regimes on the planet and kept them from invading further countries, which absolutely was coming next and absolutely would have led to a full blown war with NATO.

Your ideology of us being the "good guys" is the naivety that politicians love...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 27, 2023, 01:06:46 PM
You mean Dick Cheney?  Old school Reagan republican?  You bet... and his daughter is a freaking hero in my book...

Quote from: Snaketoz on February 27, 2023, 05:40:19 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 27, 2023, 01:06:46 PM
You mean Dick Cheney?  Old school Reagan republican?  You bet... and his daughter is a freaking hero in my book...

I didn't care for birdshot Dick, but his daughter is a hero in my book as well.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 27, 2023, 06:14:55 PM

Quote from: Snaketoz on February 27, 2023, 05:40:19 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 27, 2023, 01:06:46 PM
You mean Dick Cheney?  Old school Reagan republican?  You bet... and his daughter is a freaking hero in my book...

I didn't care for birdshot Dick, but his daughter is a hero in my book as well.

Like any politician...Dick had a wart or two... but... he was an old school republican which this country sorely lacks... these wannabe republican Trumplicans are poison on this country...

QuoteWhat is Russia planning?
Despite Moscow's pleas of innocence, its actions regarding Moldova bear a striking resemblance to moves it made ahead of its annexation of Crimea in 2014, and its full-scale invasion of Ukraine last year.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 27, 2023, 04:57:13 PM
Ok... I  see.  We are just drawing lines in different places.  I  prefer that we stop Russian aggression in Ukraine... where  you prefer to wait until they attack...who?  Poland?  Latvia? Estonia? Lithuania? Moldova?

Sweden and Finland saw the light... it's about time for you to see it also.

Quote from: Snaketoz on February 27, 2023, 07:47:48 PM
BT, When you first started this thread, I posted an old adage, "the first victim in any war is the truth".  I stand by that post.  I keep reading and watching videos of so many Ukraine victories.  They maybe true, but thoughts of VietNam comes back to me- the news in the states of so many victories over the Viet Cong and N. Vietnam.  Many told of the thousands killed by B52 strikes and in skirmishes in that country.  Many named my brigade that was involved.  We would shake our heads and realize the truth at home wasn't being told.  We would go to areas bombed by B52s and find no evidence of any enemy deaths or having been there.  I hope we aren't getting the same type news about Ukraine.  I firmly believe it is better that we spend money on helping arm Ukraine, and it's a lot cheaper than sending our troops there.  We are getting a bargain.  Just hope we don't wake up one day with Russia victorious and finding out we were getting bogus reports.

QuoteCNN reported on March 2 that Russian occupation authorities established a complex and widespread network and methodology of torturing Ukrainian civilians to coerce cooperation with Russian authorities, citing investigators and survivors of Russian torture.[90] CNN reported that Russian occupation authorities established a three-stage law enforcement crackdown, first detaining and even killing those identified as most capable of resisting, then detaining and deporting Ukrainians with lesser resistance affiliations, and finally cracking down against Ukrainian identity and cultural displays while promoting Russian identities and patriotism. CNN reported that Russian authorities established at least 20 torture centers in occupied areas as part of a dedicated campaign to "extinguish" the Ukrainian identity. CNN reported that Russian occupation authorities conducted more extensive coercion efforts in Kherson City than in areas like Bucha, Kyiv Oblast due to the length of Russian occupation.

QuoteRussia's Assault on Daily Life in Ukraine
February 24, 2023
Ukraine
When a Kh-22 missile slammed into a residential apartment block in the city of Dnipro on January 14, it killed nearly 50 civilians and wounded dozens more. It was one of the largest such attacks since the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine which Russian President Vladimir Putin launched one year ago today.

Russia's destruction of residential buildings, hospitals, schools  and power infrastructure have been widely reported in the period since.

Speaking at an awards ceremony on December 8 Putin, champagne glass in hand, acknowledged and sought to justify Russia's campaign to destroy Ukraine's energy infrastructure in what was widely considered to be a bid to break the country's resolve. So far, those ambitions have failed.

But as Bellingcat's project to map and log incidents of civilian harm in Ukraine shows, many other facets of civilian life have also been attacked.

QuoteAfter Russia invaded Ukraine, guerrillas from Belarus began carrying out acts of sabotage on their country's railways, including blowing up track equipment to paralyze the rails that Russian forces used to get troops and weapons into Ukraine.

In the most recent sabotage to make international headlines, they attacked a Russian warplane parked just outside the Belarusian capital.

"Belarusians will not allow the Russians to freely use our territory for the war with Ukraine, and we want to force them to leave," Anton, a retired Belarusian serviceman who joined a group of saboteurs, told The Associated Press in a phone interview.

QuoteSecret document reveals Russia's 10-year plan to destabilize Moldova
By Tim Lister, CNN
Updated 9:03 AM EDT, Sat March 18, 2023

QuoteThe choices before Ukraine and its Western backers at this time are thus relatively straightforward. Ukraine can unilaterally cease fighting even as Russian attacks by ground and air continue, which would lead to disastrous defeat (and which almost no one is advocating). Ukrainian forces can continue fighting in a very constrained way seeking only to hold what they now have, which will encourage Putin to continue his efforts to pursue outright military victory. Or they can launch successive counter-offensive operations with the twin aims of persuading Putin to accept a negotiated compromise or of creating military realities sufficiently favorable to Ukraine that Kyiv and its Western allies can then effectively freeze the conflict on their own regardless of Putin's decisions. Those are the options facing Ukraine and the West as long as Putin continues to believe that he can impose his will by force of Russian arms over however long a period he is willing to fight.

QuoteThe war has left hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers dead and seriously wounded, seen the shelling of Russian cities, and caused a significant drop in living standards. Nevertheless, the most recent poll by the Levada Center shows 68% of Russians hope to see Putin as president after 2024... 

QuoteRussian forces are squeezing out locals and resettling Russian citizens in Ukraine's occupied territories. 

QuoteKremlin-appointed Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova confirmed on July 31 that Russia has transferred 4.8 million Ukrainians, including over 700,000 children, to the Russian Federation since the beginning of the war.[20] In a report on the activities "authorized by the President of the Russian Federation for children's rights" in 2022, Lvova-Belova claimed that Russia has "received" 4.8 million Ukrainians since February 2022 and noted that the vast majority of the 700,000 children who arrived to Russia did not have parental or guardian supervision

QuoteTen people have been killed in a private jet crash north of Moscow - with the Russian Civil Aviation Authority saying Yevgeny Prigozhin was on the passenger list.

Seven passengers and three crew were on board the Embraer aircraft, which was en route from Moscow to St Petersburg, TASS news agency reported.

Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 31, 2023, 08:52:00 AM
All of this will be for naught if any of several "leading" Republican candidates for President win, as they have pledged to end aid to Ukraine.

QuoteThink Ukraine's Expensive? Wait for the New Cold War
By Jan Kallberg
October 20, 2023

Aid to Ukraine is under threat, but surrendering a democratic ally to Russia would be hugely more expensive — perhaps 10 times the cost in cash terms.
It is a time of stark choices. 

The United States has channeled considerable resources to sustain Ukraine's embattled democracy in its fight against Russian imperialism. To win, Ukraine will need more, as President Biden set out in his Oval Office speech on October 19.

There is an alternative, of course. The US can end its aid and draw in its horns, but the country should understand that this is not a cost-free answer. The US would lose allies, influence, and trade globally. It's very hard to put a number on the damage that would be done — some of it isn't financial — but it is fair to believe that it would be far in excess of the $76bn the US sent to Ukraine last year..... 

Quote from: BridgeTroll on September 29, 2022, 09:02:21 AM
Seabed warfare is a reality... and everyone and everything is vulnerable.

http://www.hisutton.com/4th-Leak-in-NordStream-Attack.html

https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

QuoteRussia, a Chinese cargo ship and the sabotage of subsea cables in the Baltic Sea

Earlier this month, as the world's attention was focused on the horror unfolding in Israel and Gaza, it was easy to miss the news that two subsea telecommunications cables and a gas pipeline in the Baltic Sea had been damaged.

On the night of 7 October, the 77-kilometre Balticconnector gas pipeline and a separate but close-by subsea telecommunications cable stretching between Finland and Estonia were damaged in the Gulf of Finland. A week later, it emerged that, on the same night, another subsea telecommunications cable—connecting Estonia and Sweden—had also been damaged.

Quote
Hudson Institute
The Fourteen Facts about US Aid to Ukraine
Luke Coffey

Since Russia invaded Ukraine for the second time in eight years, Russian troops have ravaged Ukraine's cities, raped its women, and stolen its children. Russian missiles and Iranian drones strike Ukrainian cities daily, often hitting civilian targets. Russia is the aggressor. Ukraine is the victim.

For Americans who believe in respect for national borders, the primacy of national sovereignty, and the right to self-defense, support for Ukraine is natural. Ukrainians are not asking for, nor do they want, US troops to help them fight Russia. All they ask for is the resources required to give them a fighting chance.

Meanwhile, Russia is among America's top geopolitical adversaries. As former Secretary of State and Hudson Distinguished Fellow Mike Pompeo said last week, a Russian victory "would be felt well beyond Ukraine's borders, including by strengthening a Russia-China-Iran alliance that aims to weaken the US and our allies across the globe."

As Congress debates additional support for Ukraine, detractors will spread false and misleading information. It is important to understand the facts.

Fact: The US is not writing "blank checks" to Ukraine, and most of the money allocated to help Ukraine never leaves the US.

Every dollar spent in support of Ukraine is authorized by Congress and used for a specific purpose. There has never been a "blank check" to Ukraine.
Approximately $70 billion of the aid authorized for Ukraine will never leave the US. Instead, it supports our world-leading defense industry and creates well-paid jobs across 38 states.
After witnessing the effectiveness of US military equipment in Ukraine, European countries alone have placed $90 billion in orders for American-made military hardware. This makes America safer and creates well paid jobs for Americans.

Fact: For a relatively modest amount of money, US aid helps Ukraine dismantle Russia's armed forces without a single American firing a shot or being shot at.

Russia is a top geopolitical adversary of the United States, and a close ally of China, Iran, and North Korea.
Estimates vary, but up to 300,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded in Ukraine. The original Russian invasion force from February 2022 has effectively ceased to exist.
Open source reporting has collected visual evidence that Russia has lost more than 12,900 major pieces of equipment in Ukraine by the time of this writing. Since this number is limited to visually confirmed losses, the actual number is likely far higher.
These losses include: 2,439 main battle tanks, 1,026 armored fighting vehicles, 2,977 infantry fighting vehicles, 368 armored personnel carriers, 914 pieces of artillery, 201 multiple rocket launchers, 93 aircraft (including three strategic bombers), 132 helicopters, and likely thousands of other pieces of military hardware.
Ukraine has destroyed or damaged 16 ships and submarines, including the guided missile cruiser Moskva (previously the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet) and the submarine Rostov-on-Don. Their destruction supports broader US security objectives outside the Black Sea. For example, Russia has used both vessels to support Bashar al-Assad in Syria.

Fact: There has never been more accountability for US military assistance than what is available for Ukraine aid.

Soon after Russia's invasion, the US government established the Ukraine Oversight Interagency Working Group. More than 160 officials across 20 federal oversight agencies monitor US aid to Ukraine.
To date, Congress has allocated $50 million for the inspectors general of the Department of Defense, Department of State, and the US Agency for International Development (USAID) to increase oversight through the working group.
The groups have completed dozens of reports, with dozens more in the works. According to the working group, "Investigations related to the Ukraine response have not yet substantiated significant waste, fraud, or abuse."
The White House's proposed Ukraine supplemental will add another $15 million to fund additional oversight activities. Among other things, this additional funding will allow the State Department's Office of the Inspector General to "increase inspections and investigations beyond its 27 current and planned projects that span foreign assistance, management, and operational activities."

Fact: Europe has spent more than the US on Ukraine aid.

According to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy's Ukraine aid tracker, total European commitments are now more than double those of the US after totaling all aid (military, economic, humanitarian, and refugee).
Twenty European countries have given more to Ukraine than the US as a percentage of GDP.

Fact: A victorious Ukraine means a safer Taiwan.

The choice between security in Europe or security in the Indo-Pacific is a false dichotomy. In terms of US national interests, the two regions are intimately linked.
Russia is China's junior partner. A weakened or defeated Russia means a weaker China. Beijing is watching how Western powers support Ukraine, so a strong and victorious Ukraine makes Taiwan stronger and deters Chinese aggression.
It's no coincidence that earlier this year, Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida visited Ukraine while Chinese President Xi Jinping visited Russia. During this visit, Xi told Vladimir Putin, "Now there are changes that haven't happened in 100 years. When we are together, we drive these changes."
In Kishida's own words, "The security of the Indo-Pacific region cannot be separated from European security."

Fact: European stability, which Russia is trying to undermine, affects the American worker.

North America and Europe account for approximately 48 percent of the global economy.
Europe is America's largest source of foreign investment. In 2021, Europe accounted for $3.19 trillion out of a total of $4.98 trillion of foreign capital investment in the US, or about 64 percent.
The US and Europe are each other's largest export markets. In 2022, 45 out of 50 states—including the largest single-state economy, California—exported more goods to Europe than to China.
Europe matters to the American heartland too. Arkansas, Kentucky, and Oklahoma each export five times more to Europe than China.
When Americans build something to be exported, that protects American jobs. European stability brings untold benefits to the US economy and, by extension, to the American worker. Aiding Ukraine helps preserve that stability.

Fact: The lessons the US learns from Ukraine will make America stronger in the Indo-Pacific.

Supporting Ukraine has exposed major shortcomings in the American defense industrial base, which the US is now addressing. Thankfully, these shortcomings were uncovered when America was not directly at war.
Deployment in Ukraine has tested American-made military hardware in a way that is impossible in peacetime. The US is learning what works, what doesn't work, and how to make improvements. This prepares America for future warfare to a degree that is unachievable through exercises alone.
The US is replacing all the weapons it gives to Ukraine with newer, more effective systems.
As Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen said, "Russia's invasion of Ukraine was a wake-up call to us all." Because of their support for Ukraine, US allies and partners in East Asia are spending more on defense to better prepare for future threats.

Fact: The weapons the US is sending to Ukraine do not impact America's ability to fight an Indo-Pacific conflict.

Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) rockets, older AGM-88 and AGM-88E air to surface anti-radiation missiles, and AIM-7 and AIM-9M interceptors, which the US is sending to Ukraine, are either irrelevant to an Indo-Pacific fight or are expiring anyway.
The most effective way to use these weapons is to send them to Ukraine. The 10,000 Javelins or the 2,000 Stingers that the US has given to Ukraine will not be a determining factor in whether the US can deter a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. But they were the determining factor that allowed Ukraine to defend Kyiv in the beginning weeks of the war.
America's weapons of choice in a conflict against China will be torpedoes, the AGM-158 JASSM and AGM-158C LRASM strike missiles, naval mines, and Tomahawk cruise missiles. None of these have been provided to Ukraine.

Fact: Because of lessons the US learned by arming Ukraine, Taiwan is receiving weapons sooner.

For the first time, the presidential drawdown authority (PDA), which has been used so effectively for Ukraine, is being used to arm Taiwan. Had the US not supported Ukraine, it is unlikely that Washington would have used the PDA to arm Taiwan.
Congress has authorized up to $1 billion in weapons for Taiwan using PDA.
In July 2023, the US announced a $345 million military aid package for Taiwan as part of the $1 billion in PDA approved by Congress.
Even though the lethal High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) is in high demand from US allies and partners, Taiwan's order for additional HIMARS will now arrive one year earlier than planned because the US reprioritized the sale.

Fact: Iran and North Korea enable Russia to attack Ukraine. Russia supports Hamas.

Some of America's top adversaries, and the enemies of America's closest allies and partners, have aligned with Russia.
By the end of 2022, Iran had provided more than 1,700 drones to Russia for use in Ukraine. Earlier this year, Moscow and Tehran agreed to start producing around 6,000 Iranian-designed drones in Russia. Meanwhile, Iran and its proxies are using the same drones to threaten Israel and attack US troops in the Middle East.
North Korea has reportedly delivered more than one million artillery rounds to Russia for use in Ukraine. There have also been reports that North Korea has provided ballistic missiles to Russia.
Russia regularly votes in the United Nations Security Council and General Assembly to protect Hamas—even as Hamas commits atrocities against Israel. In October, only weeks after the group's terrorist attack against innocent Israeli civilians, Russia received a Hamas delegation in Moscow.

Fact: Ukraine is not a new "forever war."

Not a single US service member is fighting against Russia in Ukraine.
The US is not a belligerent in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine.
Ukrainians are not asking for, nor do they want, US troops to help them fight Russia. All they ask for is resources, which the US is more than capable of providing.

Fact: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia.

The definition of a proxy war is a war "fought by states acting at the instigation or on behalf of other states."
The US has never instigated Ukrainians to fight. The US is not forcing the Ukrainians to fight on its behalf. The US is merely fulfilling Ukrainians' requests for weapons and assistance as they fight a war of self-defense.
Ukrainians are fighting a war of national survival. Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine is the victim.
If Russia stops fighting, the war will be over. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine as it is known today will be over.

Fact: The US needs to provide both military and nonmilitary aid to achieve the greatest effect.

Some propose providing only one type of aid as a compromise with those who do not want to provide any aid to Ukraine. However, this proposal is a half measure and would yield disappointing results.
The Ukrainian military is not the only actor defending against Russia. As shown by Russia's indiscriminate targeting of civilians with ballistic missiles and Iranian drones, the whole of Ukrainian society is at war.
The first year of Russia's invasion eliminated almost 30 percent of Ukraine's economy. Even so, Ukraine's government and essential public services (law enforcement and first responders, diplomats, utility workers, etc.) need to function properly for the nation to remain on a total war footing.
US support needs to be broad in scope. Those who call for the US to give only military support fail to see the bigger picture in Ukraine.

Fact: Claims that US aid to Ukraine has cost "$900 per American household" and that the newly proposed aid package will add "over $1,000" to the tax burden of "every family of four in America" are wildly misleading.

These numbers are often used to mislead Americans into thinking that they are shouldering an unnecessary financial burden to help Ukraine amid economic difficulties and high inflation at home.
These numbers are misleading because federal income tax is not levied evenly across households.
In 2020, the most recent year for which data is available, the top 1 percent of earners paid 42.3 percent of all federal income tax. The bottom 50 percent of taxpayers (those making $42,184 or less) paid only 2.3 percent of all federal income tax.
Approximately 60 million tax returns reported income of $30,000 or less. The effective average tax rate for this group was 1.5 percent before any tax credits were applied.

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 08, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
"Fact: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia."

This is a lie. The US is absolutely engaged in a proxy war. Why else would Lindsey Graham so boldly claim that "the best money we've ever spent" is directly related to the death of Russian soldiers during the war? Washington has made Russia it's de-facto boogie man forever yet can't explain what sort of actual "direct threat" they pose on us. The fact is, they don't. Washington itself is a far greater direct threat to the sovereignty of this nation than Russia will be anytime soon.

Quote from: acme54321 on November 08, 2023, 05:23:12 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 08, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
"Fact: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia."

This is a lie. The US is absolutely engaged in a proxy war. Why else would Lindsey Graham so boldly claim that "the best money we've ever spent" is directly related to the death of Russian soldiers during the war? Washington has made Russia it's de-facto boogie man forever yet can't explain what sort of actual "direct threat" they pose on us. The fact is, they don't. Washington itself is a far greater direct threat to the sovereignty of this nation than Russia will be anytime soon.

I tend to agree on everything other than the threat to sovereignty comment.  The US isn't the one that has invaded and captured like 25% of Ukraine's sovereign territory since 2014.  Not sure how you can even remotely say Washington is a greater threat.

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 09, 2023, 06:43:42 AM

Quote from: acme54321 on November 08, 2023, 05:23:12 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 08, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
"Fact: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia."

This is a lie. The US is absolutely engaged in a proxy war. Why else would Lindsey Graham so boldly claim that "the best money we've ever spent" is directly related to the death of Russian soldiers during the war? Washington has made Russia it's de-facto boogie man forever yet can't explain what sort of actual "direct threat" they pose on us. The fact is, they don't. Washington itself is a far greater direct threat to the sovereignty of this nation than Russia will be anytime soon.

I tend to agree on everything other than the threat to sovereignty comment.  The US isn't the one that has invaded and captured like 25% of Ukraine's sovereign territory since 2014.  Not sure how you can even remotely say Washington is a greater threat.

The US helped push the chaos in Ukraine that was 2014 because, again, Russia bad. But in terms of the threat Washington poses, what would you call allowing tens of millions of people to pour into your country from the southern border unchecked? We spread our military over the entire planet fighting wars we have no business fighting. What would you call spending tax dollars into oblivion, to the point that our largest line item from an expense standpoint is simply the interest on the debt we currently owe? That number will only continue to skyrocket regardless of who's in charge, D or R. These are problems that are far more of a direct threat to us as citizens than anything Putin poses. How many wars has Russia launched since the Cold War ended? Far fewer than we have, that's for sure.

Quote from: acme54321 on November 09, 2023, 08:17:06 AM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 09, 2023, 06:43:42 AM

Quote from: acme54321 on November 08, 2023, 05:23:12 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 08, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
"Fact: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia."

This is a lie. The US is absolutely engaged in a proxy war. Why else would Lindsey Graham so boldly claim that "the best money we've ever spent" is directly related to the death of Russian soldiers during the war? Washington has made Russia it's de-facto boogie man forever yet can't explain what sort of actual "direct threat" they pose on us. The fact is, they don't. Washington itself is a far greater direct threat to the sovereignty of this nation than Russia will be anytime soon.

I tend to agree on everything other than the threat to sovereignty comment.  The US isn't the one that has invaded and captured like 25% of Ukraine's sovereign territory since 2014.  Not sure how you can even remotely say Washington is a greater threat.

The US helped push the chaos in Ukraine that was 2014 because, again, Russia bad. But in terms of the threat Washington poses, what would you call allowing tens of millions of people to pour into your country from the southern border unchecked? We spread our military over the entire planet fighting wars we have no business fighting. What would you call spending tax dollars into oblivion, to the point that our largest line item from an expense standpoint is simply the interest on the debt we currently owe? That number will only continue to skyrocket regardless of who's in charge, D or R. These are problems that are far more of a direct threat to us as citizens than anything Putin poses. How many wars has Russia launched since the Cold War ended? Far fewer than we have, that's for sure.

I was reading "this nation" wrong and thought you were referring to Ukraine.  Carry on.

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 08, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
"Fact: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia."

This is a lie. The US is absolutely engaged in a proxy war. Why else would Lindsey Graham so boldly claim that "the best money we've ever spent" is directly related to the death of Russian soldiers during the war? Washington has made Russia it's de-facto boogie man forever yet can't explain what sort of actual "direct threat" they pose on us. The fact is, they don't. Washington itself is a far greater direct threat to the sovereignty of this nation than Russia will be anytime soon.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 09, 2023, 08:34:05 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 08, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
"Fact: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia."

This is a lie. The US is absolutely engaged in a proxy war. Why else would Lindsey Graham so boldly claim that "the best money we've ever spent" is directly related to the death of Russian soldiers during the war? Washington has made Russia it's de-facto boogie man forever yet can't explain what sort of actual "direct threat" they pose on us. The fact is, they don't. Washington itself is a far greater direct threat to the sovereignty of this nation than Russia will be anytime soon.

There were 14 points and you are attempting to refute one of them. It's a good starting point. 

Russia IS the boogie man to use your term as they are the aggressor... they illegally annexed the Donbas region and Crimea... and a few years later following western inaction...invaded Ukraine. Hitler also annexed bits of other countries and following European inaction was emboldened to attack first Poland then the rest of Europe.

Russian aggression against Ukraine IS a direct threat to America in that the Baltic states and Poland (NATO) are next in line for conquest or reabsorbtion into "Putin's version of historic Russia.

America and Europe actually obligated to protect Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum where Ukraine returned nuclear weapons, ships,tanks and other military items left behind when the USSR fell... https://www.npr.org/2022/02/21/1082124528/ukraine-russia-putin-invasion.

Not surprisingly both Sweden and Finland quickly applied for NATO membership in the wake of Russian aggression.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 09, 2023, 08:34:05 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 08, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
"Fact: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia."

This is a lie. The US is absolutely engaged in a proxy war. Why else would Lindsey Graham so boldly claim that "the best money we've ever spent" is directly related to the death of Russian soldiers during the war? Washington has made Russia it's de-facto boogie man forever yet can't explain what sort of actual "direct threat" they pose on us. The fact is, they don't. Washington itself is a far greater direct threat to the sovereignty of this nation than Russia will be anytime soon.

There were 14 points and you are attempting to refute one of them. It's a good starting point. 

Russia IS the boogie man to use your term as they are the aggressor... they illegally annexed the Donbas region and Crimea... and a few years later following western inaction...invaded Ukraine. Hitler also annexed bits of other countries and following European inaction was emboldened to attack first Poland then the rest of Europe.

Russian aggression against Ukraine IS a direct threat to America in that the Baltic states and Poland (NATO) are next in line for conquest or reabsorbtion into "Putin's version of historic Russia.

America and Europe actually obligated to protect Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum where Ukraine returned nuclear weapons, ships,tanks and other military items left behind when the USSR fell... https://www.npr.org/2022/02/21/1082124528/ukraine-russia-putin-invasion.

Not surprisingly both Sweden and Finland quickly applied for NATO membership in the wake of Russian aggression.

QuoteThe Russian government is likely attempting to force Google to cease operations in Russia. The Moscow Magistrate's Court fined Google 15 million rubles (roughly $165,745) on November 14 for the repeated failure to localize the personal data of Russian citizens in Russia.[26] Russian state censor Roskomnadzor requires foreign internet-based services to localize databases of Russian users as of July 1, 2021, and Russian courts previously fined Google 15 million rubles in June 2022 for failing to adhere to this law.[27] The Russian government has previously fined Russian internet giant Yandex for also failing to adhere to Russian laws regarding disclosing users' personal data to the government, likely forcing Yandex to split its Russian entity from its international entity to adhere to Russian laws and allowing the Russian government to exercise increased control and surveillance over Russians' usage of Yandex.[28] The Russian government previously banned certain Western social media sites and demanded that Google remove "false information" about the Russian war in Ukraine in early 2022.[29] The Russian government likely aims to force Russians to utilize search engines and other internet services of Russian companies that the government can control better than international entities like Google.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 10, 2023, 01:34:51 PM
I'm fine with one point at a time... as long as we stay on point. I would love to start another thread discussing the southern border situation. I happen to agree that the situation is out of control... but that's another topic.

I would love to hear your thoughts regarding our treaty obligations and promises. Ukraine took a huge leap of faith turning over nuclear weapons to Russia with the defense promises from Europe and USA...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 16, 2023, 01:03:25 PM
Dues?  3.7 billion for administrative costs spread among all members and a commitment to spend 2% of GDP On defense spending. Countries are literally begging to join NATO as it is the most successful defense treaty organization in history... the dues are almost nothing.   I  don't quite understand your apparent fervent support of Israel while dismissing Ukraine?  Please clarify as we have spent WAY more on Israel defense than Ukraine and Israel is actually a occupier of Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. Ukraine has invaded or occupied no country.

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 16, 2023, 03:19:18 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 16, 2023, 01:03:25 PM
Dues?  3.7 billion for administrative costs spread among all members and a commitment to spend 2% of GDP On defense spending. Countries are literally begging to join NATO as it is the most successful defense treaty organization in history... the dues are almost nothing.   I  don't quite understand your apparent fervent support of Israel while dismissing Ukraine?  Please clarify as we have spent WAY more on Israel defense than Ukraine and Israel is actually a occupier of Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. Ukraine has invaded or occupied no country.

Where did I provide any evidence of "fervent support of Israel"?

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 16, 2023, 03:35:25 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 16, 2023, 03:19:18 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 16, 2023, 01:03:25 PM
Dues?  3.7 billion for administrative costs spread among all members and a commitment to spend 2% of GDP On defense spending. Countries are literally begging to join NATO as it is the most successful defense treaty organization in history... the dues are almost nothing.   I  don't quite understand your apparent fervent support of Israel while dismissing Ukraine?  Please clarify as we have spent WAY more on Israel defense than Ukraine and Israel is actually a occupier of Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. Ukraine has invaded or occupied no country.

Where did I provide any evidence of "fervent support of Israel"?

My apologies... perhaps I read too much into your previous post.... my dismay that the current version of the republican party apparently is willing to continue support for Israel yet is unable to support Ukraine. I had many reasons for leaving the republican party but that added to the list of reasons why I am now a registered independent.

Is there an alliance they/ or you DO support?

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 16, 2023, 09:53:53 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 16, 2023, 03:35:25 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 16, 2023, 03:19:18 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 16, 2023, 01:03:25 PM
Dues?  3.7 billion for administrative costs spread among all members and a commitment to spend 2% of GDP On defense spending. Countries are literally begging to join NATO as it is the most successful defense treaty organization in history... the dues are almost nothing.   I  don't quite understand your apparent fervent support of Israel while dismissing Ukraine?  Please clarify as we have spent WAY more on Israel defense than Ukraine and Israel is actually a occupier of Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. Ukraine has invaded or occupied no country.

Where did I provide any evidence of "fervent support of Israel"?

My apologies... perhaps I read too much into your previous post.... my dismay that the current version of the republican party apparently is willing to continue support for Israel yet is unable to support Ukraine. I had many reasons for leaving the republican party but that added to the list of reasons why I am now a registered independent.

Is there an alliance they/ or you DO support?

The Republican party is dead to me. Say what you want about Vivek, but he wasn't wrong when he went scorched earth on "the party of losers". They stand for nothing. Campaign as conservatives who will finally get spending under control, get to DC, then vote for whatever keeps the swamp machine churning.

The only alliance I support at this point is whatever tiny portion of political willpower is left that puts American citizens' interests first. There couldn't be a greater microcosm of the current state of BS we're faced with than what just happened in NYC today. Mayor Adams, with a straight face, told NY citizens that they are having to gut essential services like first responders in order to continue sheltering "migrants". Is there no greater slap in the face to taxpayers than using their hard earned money to keep feeding and housing illegal immigrants? Yet, that's what Washington does to us every single day as they continue to allow our southern border to be invaded by the tens of millions. And that's just one of pick-a-number of problems we have. So while there may be other parts of the world begging for our money to help solve their problems, we have far too many of our own problems and absolutely no money to be inserting ourselves into every single conflict on the planet.  Ukraine, Israel, etc.  We need a timeout for ourselves in the worst way possible.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 17, 2023, 03:45:26 PM
While I might understand your frustration... isolationism has always failed as a foreign policy... not just here but around the world throughout history. It is doomed to fail before it even begins because we are now incredibly interconnected in the 21st century.  We cannot isolate ourselves from problems in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. Their problems are unavoidably our problems. Walking away or ignoring them only exaberates the problems and let's the world's bad actors enslave more of humanity.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 17, 2023, 03:45:26 PM
While I might understand your frustration... isolationism has always failed as a foreign policy... not just here but around the world throughout history. It is doomed to fail before it even begins because we are now incredibly interconnected in the 21st century.  We cannot isolate ourselves from problems in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. Their problems are unavoidably our problems. Walking away or ignoring them only exaberates the problems and let's the world's bad actors enslave more of humanity.

Quote from: JPalmer on November 21, 2023, 09:01:03 AM
WarDamJagsFan, (Oh the irony)

No need to argue with the Troll about foreign policy or DoD matters.  He is a fully indoctrinated veteran of the war machine and military industrial complex.  You are just wasting your time.

Quote from: JPalmer on November 21, 2023, 09:01:03 AM
WarDamJagsFan, (Oh the irony)

No need to argue with the Troll about foreign policy or DoD matters.  He is a fully indoctrinated veteran of the war machine and military industrial complex.  You are just wasting your time.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 21, 2023, 02:19:01 PM
I'm just looking for someone who can actually articulate a position. I respect war dams opinion even though I disagree. You on the other hand...

Quote from: JPalmer on November 21, 2023, 03:38:28 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 21, 2023, 02:19:01 PM
I'm just looking for someone who can actually articulate a position. I respect war dams opinion even though I disagree. You on the other hand...

I've been pretty succinct in pointing out that you love shilling DoD propaganda on a website that you should be moderating with objectivity.

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 20, 2023, 11:41:14 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 17, 2023, 03:45:26 PM
While I might understand your frustration... isolationism has always failed as a foreign policy... not just here but around the world throughout history. It is doomed to fail before it even begins because we are now incredibly interconnected in the 21st century.  We cannot isolate ourselves from problems in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. Their problems are unavoidably our problems. Walking away or ignoring them only exaberates the problems and let's the world's bad actors enslave more of humanity.

LOL. Isolationism has failed? Compared to what? Our intervention-first foreign policy approach the last 60+ years has been a total failure all the way from Vietnam to present day. While I agree we can't go full-stop isolationist given global interconnectivity simply from an economic perspective, drastic changes must be made to put an almost infinitely larger focus on the homeland than we currently have. But to think we have to go to war every damn time there's a dust-up in another part of the planet is asinine - which is our current foreign policy directive.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 22, 2023, 11:50:41 AM
The world is a safer more stable place with the US engaged.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 22, 2023, 11:50:41 AM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on November 20, 2023, 11:41:14 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 17, 2023, 03:45:26 PM
While I might understand your frustration... isolationism has always failed as a foreign policy... not just here but around the world throughout history. It is doomed to fail before it even begins because we are now incredibly interconnected in the 21st century.  We cannot isolate ourselves from problems in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. Their problems are unavoidably our problems. Walking away or ignoring them only exaberates the problems and let's the world's bad actors enslave more of humanity.

LOL. Isolationism has failed? Compared to what? Our intervention-first foreign policy approach the last 60+ years has been a total failure all the way from Vietnam to present day. While I agree we can't go full-stop isolationist given global interconnectivity simply from an economic perspective, drastic changes must be made to put an almost infinitely larger focus on the homeland than we currently have. But to think we have to go to war every damn time there's a dust-up in another part of the planet is asinine - which is our current foreign policy directive.

Getting back on topic... I  would counter that ours and the collective free countries foreign policy has been a huge success. NATO successfully held the Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union at bay. Following the collapse of the Soviets the number of free countries increased by a large number.  North Korea has remained in the north. The Pacific has remained calm. Of course there were failures Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq... but even those achieved success on some level.

The world is a safer more stable place with the US engaged. I'm certainly not suggesting that we engage militarily... but military preparedness and deterrenting aggression are something our adversaries respect.  We can do this by supplying the weapons and means for free countries to defend themselves. For me... telling Taiwan or Ukraine or South Korea... too bad you're on your own is not what this country is about.

Quote from: JPalmer on November 22, 2023, 01:34:30 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 22, 2023, 11:50:41 AM
The world is a safer more stable place with the US engaged.

Tell that to the people of Libya and Syria...A utter fallacy of your Pax-Americana BS.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 23, 2023, 07:18:48 AM
The root cause of the people's misery in those countries are the absolute dictators that still control or once controlled them.

Quote from: JPalmer on November 23, 2023, 08:01:06 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 23, 2023, 07:18:48 AM
The root cause of the people's misery in those countries are the absolute dictators that still control or once controlled them.

Wrong on both accounts, it was the US intervention.  I'll do you the favor and let you know Barrack Obama has long since admitted the assassination of Gaddafi was in fact his worst "mistake" as president.  Gaddafi had been in power for thirty years and was no threat, however, after his assassination Libya has become a failed state and created refugee crisis. 

Syria, we also intervened and enflamed a civil war.  We armed the rebels who ultimately formed Isis and have been occupying 1/3 of the country, oh and Donald Trump has already admitted on camera that the only reason we are in Syria is for the oil.

Links for Citation:

https://youtu.be/U10p3Tn9V5Y?si=S17claXpiO5Ow5wW (https://youtu.be/U10p3Tn9V5Y?si=S17claXpiO5Ow5wW)


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/obamas-worst-mistake-libya/478461/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/obamas-worst-mistake-libya/478461/)

Quote[W]e [and] our European partners underestimated the need to come in full force if you're going to do this. Then it's the day after Qaddafi is gone, when everybody is feeling good and everybody is holding up posters saying, 'Thank you, America.' At that moment, there has to be a much more aggressive effort to rebuild societies that didn't have any civic traditions."

QuoteEuropean states are responding to Russia's continued orchestration of an artificially created migrant crisis on its northwestern borders. The Finnish government announced on November 22 that Finland will close three more checkpoints on the Finnish-Russian border from November 23 to December 23, leaving only the northernmost checkpoint open.[31] Norwegian Prime Minister Johan Gahr Store stated on November 22 that Norway would also close its border to Russia "if necessary."[32] Estonian Defense Minister Hanno Pevkur stated on November 23 that an increased number of migrants have also arrived at the Estonian-Russian border and that Russia is organizing the arrivals as part of an effort to "weaponize illegal immigration."[33] Reuters reported on November 23 that the Estonian Interior Ministry stated that Estonia has undertaken preparations to close its border crossings with Russia if "the migration pressure from Russia escalates."[34] Latvian Prime Minister Evika Silina stated on November 24 that Latvia has experienced a similar influx of migrants on its border with Russia, and Silina and Finnish Prime Minister Petteri Orpo stated that these are Russian and Belarusian "hybrid attacks."

QuoteWhen the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world's third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory. When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine and Russia. The result was the Trilateral Statement, signed in January 1994, under which Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear warheads to Russia for elimination. In return, Ukraine received security assurances from the United States, Russia and Britain; compensation for the economic value of the highly-enriched uranium in the warheads (which could be blended down and converted into fuel for nuclear reactors); and assistance from the United States in dismantling the missiles, missile silos, bombers and nuclear infrastructure on its territory.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 26, 2023, 07:55:47 PM
Awesome post and welcome to the discussion!
Your maps illustrate Russian aggression over the centuries... whether seeking warm water ports or simply territorial aggression... Finland, Sweden, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, and  Latvia know all about Russian intentions.
You mentioned Belarus, Uzbekistan, or Tajikistan... none of these countries are trying to exit the Russian sphere of influence. All of those countries have dictators sympathetic to Russia... they are not comparable to Ukraine.
Regarding NATO  provocation... if provocation includes accepting countries into the NATO protected umbrella then I  agree... Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia and later Finland and Sweden are provocateurs.

You fail to mention the security assurance from the West in exchange for returning nuclear warheads, missiles, tanks, warships to Russia in exchange for security from Russian aggression. In 1991... Ukraine was in possession of the THIRD LARGEST NUCLEAR ARSENAL ON EARTH.

The gave them up for peace and security... this very simply a country that wants to escape the Russian sphere of influence.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-trilateral-process-the-united-states-ukraine-russia-and-nuclear-weapons/

QuoteWhen the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world's third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory. When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine and Russia. The result was the Trilateral Statement, signed in January 1994, under which Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear warheads to Russia for elimination. In return, Ukraine received security assurances from the United States, Russia and Britain; compensation for the economic value of the highly-enriched uranium in the warheads (which could be blended down and converted into fuel for nuclear reactors); and assistance from the United States in dismantling the missiles, missile silos, bombers and nuclear infrastructure on its territory.

Quotenever relinquish what took their country hundreds of years to achieve

Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 27, 2023, 01:11:50 PM
I believe we are on the same page regarding the history of the area and Russia's repeated attempts to intimidate their neighbors. You say they will...

Quotenever relinquish what took their country hundreds of years to achieve

... I take that to mean Ukraine is just the beginning. Poland, Moldova, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Finland among others have much to fear. Armenia is already feeling the pinch as is Georgia.

Russia was emboldened to invade Ukraine by western inaction following their annexation of Crimea.  Western abandonment of Ukraine will embolden Putin to begin working on the country within his sights.

QuoteAs Ukraine's anticlimactic summer counteroffensive abates (and the Western media excitedly reverts to another cycle of hyperbolically dire assessments and forecasts about the war), it is easy to lose sight of the remarkable fact that Ukraine has recaptured over 20,000 square miles of terrain and continues to deliver a succession of tactical and strategic humiliations to Moscow. Most recently, it has forced the Black Sea Fleet to relocate its historic naval base - in occupied Crimea - 500 miles east to Novorossiysk in Russia-proper. through the use of harassing drones, missile attacks, and marine raids, – Ukraine has achieved a feat of deterrence the British, French, and Turks would have envied as far back as the mid-nineteenth century. This is to say nothing of Ukraine's ability to strike well behind enemy lines via its hypertrophied covert action capability. The SBU, the country's domestic security service, has reportedly blown up two cargo trains in Siberia, some 3,000 miles from Ukraine's border, according to a Ukrainian source speaking to Reuters.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on December 08, 2023, 05:07:19 PM
An interesting analysis of the cost effectiveness of continuing the arming of Ukraine...

https://theins.ru/en/politics/267432

QuoteAs Ukraine's anticlimactic summer counteroffensive abates (and the Western media excitedly reverts to another cycle of hyperbolically dire assessments and forecasts about the war), it is easy to lose sight of the remarkable fact that Ukraine has recaptured over 20,000 square miles of terrain and continues to deliver a succession of tactical and strategic humiliations to Moscow. Most recently, it has forced the Black Sea Fleet to relocate its historic naval base - in occupied Crimea - 500 miles east to Novorossiysk in Russia-proper. through the use of harassing drones, missile attacks, and marine raids, – Ukraine has achieved a feat of deterrence the British, French, and Turks would have envied as far back as the mid-nineteenth century. This is to say nothing of Ukraine's ability to strike well behind enemy lines via its hypertrophied covert action capability. The SBU, the country's domestic security service, has reportedly blown up two cargo trains in Siberia, some 3,000 miles from Ukraine's border, according to a Ukrainian source speaking to Reuters.

QuoteWhy Russia Embraces Tucker Carlson

When Russian state media scrambled to build a narrative to justify Moscow's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, they received what must have felt like a gift. Tucker Carlson, one of the most high-profile television personalities in the United States and beyond, used a March 2022 episode of his primetime show to give oxygen to a bizarre conspiracy theory about the supposed development of U.S. bioweapons in Ukraine.

The bioweapons conspiracy theory had been simmering in fringe online communities for several weeks, after a follower of QAnon stumbled across a decades-old Russian disinformation campaign, smushed it together with conspiracy theories about the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic, and then tacked it on to the events in Ukraine.

Carlson's intervention shot this conspiracy theory into the stratosphere. He took this piece of regurgitated Russian disinformation and blasted it into the living rooms and  minds of middle America. By April 2022, a YouGov poll found that an astounding 28% of American respondents said that it was "definitely" or "probably true" that the U.S. had been developing "bioweapons" in laboratories across Ukraine. A further 30% said they were unsure.

It is astonishing that more than a quarter of Americans had been convinced of a baseless conspiracy that frames Ukraine and Washington as the aggressors and Russia's invasion as an act of self-defense.

Likewise, it is unclear what role, if any, Russian state actors played in boosting this narrative to the point where it caught Carlson's attention. But they could not have asked for a better outcome and almost certainly could not have achieved it without him. The bioweapons narrative was neither the first nor the last time that Carlson's work has been of extraordinary value to Russian state media, but also to Moscow's propaganda strategy more broadly. Carlson has emerged as one of the loudest voices opposing Western support for Ukraine, while continuing to speak positively of Russia and even Putin himself.

Leaked memos from the Kremlin to Russian state media in the week following the full-scale invasion contained instructions stating that it was "essential to use as much as possible fragments of broadcasts of the popular Fox News host Tucker Carlson." His assertions that NATO and the West provoked the violence in Ukraine has clearly won him fans in Moscow.

Before the invasion, Carlson was occasionally mentioned on Russian state television and online media. He has since become a regular topic of discussion, with his ousting from Fox News widely covered in Russia. Ironically, though Carlson may no longer be on American television, he still is in Russia, where Rossiya 24 has taken to airing dubbed clips of his new webseries as a television show.

To be clear, there is no indication or suggestion that Carlson is intentionally collaborating with Russian state actors. When asked about Rossiya 24 rebroadcasting his content, Carlson said he did not know anything about it and had not approved it. Nor has he publicly responded to overtures by Russian talking heads and state media offering him jobs after his departure from Fox.

Carlson is valuable to the Kremlin's mouthpieces not because they control him, but because they are fundamentally selling the same product. Their vision of the U.S. is one of a decrepit, decaying empire, bloated by liberal decadence and falling apart under the weight of its own hypocrisies.

But here's the thing: Carlson is better at it.

Whatever else might be said about him, Carlson is an undeniably talented media operator whose finger is on the pulse of the American zeitgeist. Moreover, unlike Russian state media hosts, Carlson's doom-laden portrayals of American carnage are delivered with a recognizably American voice, giving his words a ring of authenticity that Vladimir Solovyov or Olga Skabayeva could never achieve. 

His firing from Fox News fed into this apparent credibility, allowing Russian state media to portray him as a kind of American Cassandra, who was unfairly cast out from Fox News and banished to roam the badlands of the platform formerly known as Twitter for his fearless commitment to speaking the truth.  

This is, of course, almost exactly the opposite of what happened. In reality, Carlson was taken off air in what he alleges was part of the settlement with Dominion Voting Systems in its successful defamation case against Fox News. The network was accused of promoting conspiracy theories about the 2020 presidential election having been rigged (Fox News has denied that Carlson's removal was linked to the Dominion case).

Carlson is also useful as a weathervane for Russian state media as they seek new ideas to fill the news cycle with anti-U.S., anti-Ukraine and anti-NATO content. He understands where the deepest and most salient fractures in American society lie far better than Russian state media. He knows how the political and media ecosystems work, and which buttons to press to get the biggest reaction. 

This benefits Russian propagandists because it allows them to piggyback off Carlson's knack for polarization. Russian news hosts take clips of Carlson's shows and build their own segments around them, following his lead on topics and expanding on his narratives. In some ways perhaps it's only the logical conclusion that one of them would eventually just cut out the middleman and make an entire show based around Carlson's clips.

My colleagues and I at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue have spent years studying both overt and covert Russian influence campaigns. Their tactics may change, but their strategy remains broadly the same: stoking existing divisions and turning up the dial on polarization, rather than seeking to invent new issues with no basis in reality.

Most recently, I looked into a small covert influence operation linked to Russia Today that is run largely on Telegram. It targeted audiences in the U.S. and Europe. Guess what RT was doing with it? Mostly just sharing clips of U.S. cable news shows.

Russian state media understands full well that the U.S.'s own outrage industrial complex is far more effective at stoking division in the U.S. than they will ever be. When it comes to Carlson specifically, they seem to recognize that their main role is to help spread his message to as large an audience as they can and leave the rest up to him.

Because he will do it much better than they can.

Quote from: Tacachale on February 05, 2024, 10:15:01 AM
He's serving the War Machine all right, it's just Russia's.

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on February 05, 2024, 09:34:26 AM
Good for Tucker doing actual journalism instead of just echoing the War Machine's talking points like the rest of our own state-owned media. It's pretty pathetic that simply asking the question of "Why are we so desperate for war with Russia?" will get you labeled as a Putin apologist and in many cases, a traitor. Meanwhile, the US State-Owned media continues its campaign to make sure people like Bridge Troll don't fall out of line and demand we continue to borrow ourselves into oblivion for the noble cause that is Cold War 2.  Because, 'Russia Bad. US Good. Don't ask questions.'

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on February 06, 2024, 08:44:46 AM
Hilarious.  Meanwhile, back stateside, US DoD: "We know we may have screwed the pooch a bit in the past. Vietnam. Nicaragua. Asperin factories in Sudan. Libya. Yemen. Iraq. WMD's. Fast and Furious. Afghanistan. Kuwait. Trump and Russia collusion, yada yada it's a long list. BUT. Trust us people. Russia is the greatest threat to us we've ever seen and we must print money into eternity and send to Ukraine with no questions asked!"   

Jaxson participants and the Lindsey Graham types of the world: "Yep. Seems credible to me! Kill the Russians!"

QuotePresident Vladimir Putin's administration is seeking to use former Fox News star Tucker Carlson's visit to Moscow as a propaganda coup both in Russia and the United States, four sources close to the Kremlin have told The Moscow Times...

President Vladimir Putin's administration is seeking to use former Fox News star Tucker Carlson's visit to Moscow as a propaganda coup both in Russia and the United States, four sources close to the Kremlin have told The Moscow Times on condition of anonymity.

"Tucker has been expected here for a long time. He is welcome here," a source close to the presidential administration told The Moscow Times. "Now everyone in the presidential administration has rolled up their sleeves and is working together."

Quote from: Charles Hunter on February 06, 2024, 10:26:53 AM
Simple question, WarDam - Is it acceptable for Russia to remove by invasion the government of Ukraine and install its own?

Simple "Yes" or "No" without Whataboutism of prior regime changes the USA has facilitated.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 06, 2024, 03:23:16 PM
Adversarial??? Europe and the US bent over backwards trying to get Russia to join western civilization... most of Europe purchased nearly all of its energy needs from Russia... to the point of decommissioning nuclear power plants. The Baltic states, Finland,  Poland, Ukraine, Germany and many others had free and open borders with Russia.  In 2020 the US  imported around 30 billion in goods from Russia.

LOL. Europe is trying to phase out fossil fuels for their own climate change initiatives but even they have realities they can't hide from. IE, they still need fossil fuels to survive. Russia is the 2nd largest exporter of Nat Gas. So... not like Europe had a choice here. They're neighbors with an energy juggernaut. At the same token, China is an adversary to us, especially according to Washington, but I guess since most of what we consume comes from China then they might as well be allies according to the above logic.

NATO doesn't force anyone to join... it is strictly voluntary. I wonder why the Baltic states would want to join NATO?  Finland and Sweden joined NATO immediately following Russia invasion...I wonder why?

Not discounting what NATO offers. But ignoring the clear friction between "Western" NATO nations and Russia is disingenuous.

As for the debt... Trump added 8 trillion himself...as much as Obama...lol.

Not sure what this has to do with anything here but yeah, I have my disagreements with Trump too. Instead of using his veto pen, all we got was "This bill sucks. But.... I'm gonna sign it anyways".

Same with immigration... the bill negotiations right now are the most conservative we've ever seen yet...Trump/MAGA etc  are walking away... you/ they are not serious about either of those issues

Quote6 FEB, 14:11

Tucker Carlson announces interview with Vladimir Putin

Last time, the Russian president gave an interview to a Western reporter in October, 2021

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 06, 2024, 05:26:29 PM
I and many others have no issues with immigration reforms...especially the current bill. Clearly even the people who actually negotiated the bill don't want the solution. Trump doesn't want this to pass ... so it  won't. Completely disingenuous.

I'm all for common sense but Trump and Maga have none.

Incidentally...
https://tass.com/world/1742683

Quote6 FEB, 14:11

Tucker Carlson announces interview with Vladimir Putin

Last time, the Russian president gave an interview to a Western reporter in October, 2021

QuoteAmerica's European and Asian allies have significantly ramped up their efforts to support Ukraine. European Council President Charles Michel stated on February 6 that the European Council and Parliament reached a provisional agreement on the creation of a new single dedicated instrument – the Ukraine Facility – to pool the EU's recently announced support package of 50 billion euros (about $54 billion) for Ukraine for 2024-2027.[1] European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen stated that the EU aims to start payments to the Ukraine Facility in March 2024.[2] German arms manufacturer Rheinmetall stated on February 5 that it plans to send tens of thousands of 155mm artillery shells, dozens of Marder infantry fighting vehicles, 25 Leopard 1A5 tanks, and an unspecified number of Skynex air defense systems to Ukraine in 2024.[3] South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) stated on February 6 that it plans to sign a contract with ammunition producer Poongsan in 2024 to mass produce 155mm shells that have an extended range of 60 kilometers.[4] South Korea reportedly began indirectly supplying artillery shells to Ukraine in early 2023, and these shells may go to European allies for indirect transfer to Ukraine.[5]

The EU and its member states have made available 138 billion euros (about $148.5 billion) - including its recently announced support package of 50 billion euros (about $54 billion) - to Ukraine since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022.[6] In comparison, the US has appropriated $113 billion to Ukraine since the full-scale invasion, of which over $75 billion was directly allocated to Ukraine for humanitarian, financial, and military support.[7] The US government allocated the other $38 billion to security assistance-related funding, which the US government spent largely in the US and on US companies or personnel.[8] 

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 05, 2024, 05:42:47 PM
I really do hope he gets a interview with Putin... I would be happy to read or watch that...

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/05/us-conservative-pundit-tucker-carlson-spotted-in-moscow-amid-putin-interview-rumors-a83972

QuoteFACT SHEET: US ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINE

Feb 8, 2024 - ISW Press
(https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Claim%20-%20Fact%20US%20Ukraine%20Support%202.0_0.png)
 
US aid to Ukraine does not lack oversight nor has corruption in Ukraine diverted it.

Claim: US aid to Ukraine lacks oversight and is being misused because of corruption in Ukraine.

Fact: US oversight is extensive, and Ukrainian government oversight and accountability is extensive and growing.

Critics point to a recent corruption case in which a small Ukrainian defense enterprise embezzled $40 million from public ammunition procurement funds, without noting that the Ukrainian government caught the thieves and recovered the money.[1]
Ukraine has undertaken significant anti-corruption efforts within its government and defense industrial base enterprises as part of efforts to increase domestic defense production.[2]
President Zelensky fired the previous defense minister after domestic corruption scandals unrelated to Western assistance emerged, and his replacement, the current minister, is aggressively rooting out corruption.[3] The Ukrainian government is also leveraging the robust and expansive Ukrainian NGO community to assist with its anti-corruption efforts.
Ukrainian and DoD personnel have been working aggressively to continue to improve monitoring and tracking of US aid, and US DoD officials have stated that there is no evidence that US-provided military assistance to Ukraine has been misappropriated.[4]
84% of the funds for Ukraine in the current proposed package would go to US companies, the US military, and other allied militaries, not Ukraine, which would get hardware and training from those funds.[5]
Western-provided weapons are being used as intended.  Mountains of evidence show advanced Western systems being used against Russian forces in Ukraine.[6]

America's NATO and Asian allies and other European states have committed more money to support Ukraine than the United States.

Claim: The United States is giving more support to Ukraine than Europe, and Europe hasn't stepped up.

Fact: America's European, Asian, and NATO allies have committed over $178 billion to support Ukraine, which is more than the US will have committed counting the aid package currently under consideration.

The EU and its member states have made available $148.5 billion (138 billion euros) - including its recently announced support package of $54 billion (50 billion euros) - to Ukraine since Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022.[7]
The United Kingdom has pledged $15.1 billion (£12 billion) in overall support to Ukraine since February 2022, of which $9 billion (£7.1 billion) is for military assistance.[8]
Canada has committed $1.8 billion (over 2.4 billion Canadian dollars) in military assistance to Ukraine since February 2022.[9] The Canadian military has also has trained approximately 40,000 Ukrainian military and security personnel since 2015, and Canada expanded and extended this program until March 2026.
Norway reached a multi-year agreement with Ukraine in February 2023 for a support program that will provide Ukraine with $7 billion (75 billion Norwegian kroner) between 2023 and 2027.[10] Norway pledged to allocate to Ukraine around $1.4 billion (15 billion Norwegian kroner) per year and had already provided around one billion dollars (10.7 billion Norwegian kroner) to Ukraine in 2022 and about $1.9 billion (19.9 billion Norwegian kroner) in 2023.
NATO member Turkey is building a new drone production facility and service center in Ukraine. Turkey's leading drone maker, Baykar, announced in September 2023 that Turkey would open a drone production facility and service center for Bayraktar TB2 drones, which reportedly will become operational by early 2025.[11]
NATO member North Macedonia has sent 10 batches of military aid to Ukraine including Soviet-era military equipment as of November 2023.[12] North Macedonia is also training batches of Ukrainian military personnel and pledged to continue supporting Ukraine.[13]
South Korea is expanding its production of critical 155mm artillery shells to refill Western stockpiles and support the continued provision of ammunition in Ukraine.[14]
Japan pledged $4.5 billion to Ukraine in December 2023.[15] Japan also pledged an additional $37 million contribution to a NATO fund to provide additional support for Ukrainian defense in January 2024.[16]
Australia provided approximately $590 million (910 million Australian dollars) in overall military and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine as of late October 2023.[17]
New Zealand provided Ukraine with more than $48.7 million (80 million New Zealand dollars) in military and humanitarian assistance as of July 2023.[18]

Ukraine is not a "forever war" for the United States because Americans are not fighting this war.

Claim: Ukraine is another 'forever war' for the United States.

Fact: This is not an American war.  It's another nation's war against an American enemy.

Ukrainians are fighting this war, not Americans.
The US is helping Ukraine fend off the Russian attack to reduce the risk that the US will have to fight Russia in the future.
A Putin victory over Ukraine would embolden him and encourage him to test America's willingness to defend its NATO allies, increasing the risk of a US-Russia war.[19]
Russian victory would also let Russian forces move closer to current NATO borders, forcing the US to commit more troops to the defense of its NATO allies.[20]
Ukraine is building up its own military and defense industry to be able to reduce its dependence on the US and will be able to do so if the US continues its support.[21]
Ukraine already has a significant defense industry and was one of the world's leading weapons suppliers before the Russian invasions and is investing its own money and attracting foreign investors to dramatically increase this capability.[22]

Sending military aid to Ukraine increases America's military readiness and reduces the risk that the United States will have to fight Russia itself.

Claim: Sending military aid to Ukraine degrades America's military readiness.

Fact: Sending military aid to Ukraine has enabled the United States to modernize its own military to be better prepared to fight the next war.

The US is supporting Ukraine in part so that the US won't have to fight Russia itself.
The overwhelming majority of military assistance is going to build up the US defense industrial base.[23]  It is allowing the expansion of current production lines of essential military supplies that the US military will need in any future war.
The equipment the US has been giving Ukraine is mostly old and sometimes inoperable.[24]  The US is purchasing new systems to replace what it gives Ukraine, modernizing the American military in the process.
American allies are also reinvigorating their defense industries and modernizing their militaries as consequences of support to Ukraine, which benefits the US.[25]

The United States is not sending Ukraine a "blank check."

Claim: The United States is/was sending Ukraine a "blank check."

Fact: The United States has not given Ukraine a blank check. Congress has appropriated specific amounts to be used for specific purposes.  Both Ukrainian and US officials monitor the aid to ensure that it is used for those purposes.

QuoteExecutive Summary

Russia is at war with the West.

Moscow's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, while devastating in its own right, is only the opening salvo in a much larger campaign designed to upend a US-led global order that has maintained peace and prosperity in Europe and the United States for nearly 80 years. To restore stability, America and its allies must focus their efforts on containment, through a strategy designed to defeat Moscow's ability to wage war now, and to disrupt its ability to even contemplate war in the future.

Russia's attempt to remake the European and global orders by force has been long in the making, and it will be equally long in the unmaking. Restoring order will require diligence and vigilance from the United States for years, if not decades, to come. As the diplomat and influential foreign policy architect George Kennan recognized in 1946, when faced with an intransigent and intractable adversary capable of causing irreparable harm to American and allied interests, the only alternative to ongoing and escalating war is containment...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on September 29, 2022, 09:02:21 AM
Seabed warfare is a reality... and everyone and everything is vulnerable.

http://www.hisutton.com/4th-Leak-in-NordStream-Attack.html

https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

QuoteMedvedev argued that the influence of sovereign great powers, like Russia, extends beyond their geographic borders, catering to a wider maximalist ideological interpretation of the "Russian World" (Russkiy Mir). Medvedev repeated Russian President Vladimir Putin's previous statement that "Russia's borders do not end anywhere."[6] Medvedev alleged that a state's strategic borders, which he differentiated from a state's geographical borders, directly depend on "how strong and sovereign" the state and its authorities are.[7] Medvedev claimed that the more "powerful" a state is, the "further its strategic frontiers extend beyond its state borders" and the larger the state's sphere of "economic, political, and socio-cultural influence."[8] Putin made similar remarks recently that suggested that he views weaker states that are unable to unilaterally impose their will upon others, such as Ukraine, as having a truncated sovereignty.[9] Medvedev claimed on February 22 that Russia "probably" must seize and occupy Kyiv City, which he labelled an historically "Russian" city, at some point in the future.[10] Medvedev's February 22 and March 4 statements suggest that the existence of a Ukrainian rump state in Kyiv Oblast — even after a hypothetical Russian-led negotiated settlement to the war in Ukraine — may be temporary and subject to future Russian attacks.[11] Medvedev also did not specify to where Russia's "strategic" borders would extend should Russia's "geographic" borders expand as shown in the hypothetical map he presented. The map is notably a conservative depiction of possible Russian territorial claims, given Putin's recent geographic definition of Russkiy Mir encompassing the former Russian Empire, which includes parts of Poland, Romania, Finland, and Moldova.[12]

Quote...."But I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates," Francis said, adding that talks should take place with the help of international powers.
"The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," Francis said....

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-says-ukraine-should-have-courage-white-flag-negotiations-2024-03-09/

Quote from: Charles Hunter on March 10, 2024, 08:37:59 AM
And if the GQP candidate wins the US Presidency this fall, he will "end the war in 3 days" by "letting Putin do whatever the hell he wants" in Eastern Europe.

Treaties going back 75 years? Irrelevant if they get in the way of The Former Guy's love for, and fealty to, authoritarians.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 11, 2024, 06:45:09 AM
The GOPs behavior regarding Ukraine is nothing short of shameful.  While the Trump takeover of the party was my main factor in leaving the party... their shameful, despicable, cowardly behavior towards Ukraine solidifies my decision to leave my lifelong party and become an independent voter. No republican will get my vote this year...

QuoteDonald Trump won't give 'a penny' to Ukraine if elected, Orbán says

Donald Trump will totally stop funding Ukraine if he wins the U.S. election in November, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán said following a meeting between the right-wing figureheads.

"He will not give a penny in the Ukraine-Russia war," Orbán told Hungarian state media Sunday. "Therefore, the war will end, because it is obvious that Ukraine can not stand on its own feet."...

https://www.politico.eu/article/viktor-orban-donald-trump-wont-give-a-penny-to-ukraine-if-elected/

QuoteWith ammunition stocks running low, Ukrainians fought back with whatever caliber of ammunition was left in the warehouses. For every shell they fired, the Russians fired eight or nine, the men said.

"When you have different types of shells, they have different trajectories, and you have to calculate where they will fly, where they will hit. This is a kind of chaos," Oleh said. "And the longer it went, the more we got this stew of shells for all kinds of weapons."

Among the Ukrainian soldiers, the idea of retreat took seed. There were no reinforcements, no more ammunition and no changes in their orders.

QuoteUkrainian shortages of ammunition and other war materiel resulting from delays in the provision of US military assistance may be making the current Ukrainian front line more fragile than the relatively slow Russian advances in various sectors would indicate. Ukrainian prioritization of the sectors most threatened by intensive Russian offensive operations could create vulnerabilities elsewhere that Russian forces may be able to exploit to make sudden and surprising advances if Ukrainian supplies continue to dwindle. Russia's retention of the theater-wide initiative increases the risks of such developments by letting the Russian military command choose to increase or decrease operations anywhere along the line almost at will.

German outlet Der Spiegel published interviews with unnamed Ukrainian commanders on March 12 who stated that almost all Ukrainian units and formations have to husband ammunition and materiel because of the overall ammunition shortage and that some Ukrainian units with limited ammunition and materiel can only hold their current positions if Russian forces do not "attack with full force."[1] Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi warned that there is a threat of Russian units advancing deep into Ukrainian formations in unspecified areas of the frontline.[2]

Ukrainian forces are likely attempting to mitigate problems caused by ammunition shortages by prioritizing the allocation of ammunition to sectors of the front facing larger-scale Russian offensive operations. The lower intensity of Russian offensive efforts against currently de-prioritized sectors likely obscures the risks to Ukrainian forces in those areas resulting from ammunition shortages. ISW continues to assess that Russian forces have the theater-wide initiative and will be able to determine the time, location, and scale of offensive operations so long as they retain the initiative.[3] Syrskyi's and the Ukrainian commanders' statements suggest that an intensification of Russian offensive operations in an area where Ukrainian forces have not prioritized allocating already limited ammunition supplies could lead to a Russian breakthrough and destabilization along a previously stable sector of the frontline in a short period of time. The current frontline is likely thus not stable, and timely Western resourcing of Ukrainian troops is essential to prevent Russia from identifying and exploiting an opportunity for a breakthrough on a vulnerable sector of the front.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 14, 2024, 07:41:07 AM
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2024

QuoteUkrainian shortages of ammunition and other war materiel resulting from delays in the provision of US military assistance may be making the current Ukrainian front line more fragile than the relatively slow Russian advances in various sectors would indicate. Ukrainian prioritization of the sectors most threatened by intensive Russian offensive operations could create vulnerabilities elsewhere that Russian forces may be able to exploit to make sudden and surprising advances if Ukrainian supplies continue to dwindle. Russia's retention of the theater-wide initiative increases the risks of such developments by letting the Russian military command choose to increase or decrease operations anywhere along the line almost at will.

German outlet Der Spiegel published interviews with unnamed Ukrainian commanders on March 12 who stated that almost all Ukrainian units and formations have to husband ammunition and materiel because of the overall ammunition shortage and that some Ukrainian units with limited ammunition and materiel can only hold their current positions if Russian forces do not "attack with full force."[1] Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi warned that there is a threat of Russian units advancing deep into Ukrainian formations in unspecified areas of the frontline.[2]

Ukrainian forces are likely attempting to mitigate problems caused by ammunition shortages by prioritizing the allocation of ammunition to sectors of the front facing larger-scale Russian offensive operations. The lower intensity of Russian offensive efforts against currently de-prioritized sectors likely obscures the risks to Ukrainian forces in those areas resulting from ammunition shortages. ISW continues to assess that Russian forces have the theater-wide initiative and will be able to determine the time, location, and scale of offensive operations so long as they retain the initiative.[3] Syrskyi's and the Ukrainian commanders' statements suggest that an intensification of Russian offensive operations in an area where Ukrainian forces have not prioritized allocating already limited ammunition supplies could lead to a Russian breakthrough and destabilization along a previously stable sector of the frontline in a short period of time. The current frontline is likely thus not stable, and timely Western resourcing of Ukrainian troops is essential to prevent Russia from identifying and exploiting an opportunity for a breakthrough on a vulnerable sector of the front.

Quote from: Charles Hunter on March 14, 2024, 09:56:26 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 14, 2024, 07:41:07 AM
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2024

QuoteUkrainian shortages of ammunition and other war materiel resulting from delays in the provision of US military assistance may be making the current Ukrainian front line more fragile than the relatively slow Russian advances in various sectors would indicate. Ukrainian prioritization of the sectors most threatened by intensive Russian offensive operations could create vulnerabilities elsewhere that Russian forces may be able to exploit to make sudden and surprising advances if Ukrainian supplies continue to dwindle. Russia's retention of the theater-wide initiative increases the risks of such developments by letting the Russian military command choose to increase or decrease operations anywhere along the line almost at will.

German outlet Der Spiegel published interviews with unnamed Ukrainian commanders on March 12 who stated that almost all Ukrainian units and formations have to husband ammunition and materiel because of the overall ammunition shortage and that some Ukrainian units with limited ammunition and materiel can only hold their current positions if Russian forces do not "attack with full force."[1] Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi warned that there is a threat of Russian units advancing deep into Ukrainian formations in unspecified areas of the frontline.[2]

Ukrainian forces are likely attempting to mitigate problems caused by ammunition shortages by prioritizing the allocation of ammunition to sectors of the front facing larger-scale Russian offensive operations. The lower intensity of Russian offensive efforts against currently de-prioritized sectors likely obscures the risks to Ukrainian forces in those areas resulting from ammunition shortages. ISW continues to assess that Russian forces have the theater-wide initiative and will be able to determine the time, location, and scale of offensive operations so long as they retain the initiative.[3] Syrskyi's and the Ukrainian commanders' statements suggest that an intensification of Russian offensive operations in an area where Ukrainian forces have not prioritized allocating already limited ammunition supplies could lead to a Russian breakthrough and destabilization along a previously stable sector of the frontline in a short period of time. The current frontline is likely thus not stable, and timely Western resourcing of Ukrainian troops is essential to prevent Russia from identifying and exploiting an opportunity for a breakthrough on a vulnerable sector of the front.

Thank you, Mr. Trump and the Putin sympathizers (supporters?) in Congress. There was a time when supporting an enemy would be called "treason".

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on March 14, 2024, 01:53:49 PM

There was a time when sending more resources to foreign borders while yours was being completely overrun with invaders as b@t $hit crazy.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 14, 2024, 05:39:38 PM
I really don't understand why you guys think it's "either the border or stopping Russia"? Why cannot it be both?  Because if you don't do it now... you or your children will be doing it later...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 14, 2024, 05:39:38 PM
I really don't understand why you guys think it's "either the border or stopping Russia"? Why cannot it be both?  Because if you don't do it now... you or your children will be doing it later...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2024, 01:48:33 PM
Oh stop the budgetary drama... I knew the whole border thing was a red herring... Biden could close the border completely and you would still say we don't have any money for Ukraine. Trump added nearly 10 trillion to the deficit himself... as soon as he could spend your money on bs he did then and he will again heaven forbid.
You still really have not ever answered why immediately following the Russia invasion... Finland and Sweden immediately asked to join NATO after decades of neutrality... you have never really answered why after being granted independence from the Soviet Union the Baltic states and Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc begged to join NATO...

So please... answer ...

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on March 15, 2024, 06:18:25 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2024, 01:48:33 PM
Oh stop the budgetary drama... I knew the whole border thing was a red herring... Biden could close the border completely and you would still say we don't have any money for Ukraine. Trump added nearly 10 trillion to the deficit himself... as soon as he could spend your money on bs he did then and he will again heaven forbid.
You still really have not ever answered why immediately following the Russia invasion... Finland and Sweden immediately asked to join NATO after decades of neutrality... you have never really answered why after being granted independence from the Soviet Union the Baltic states and Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc begged to join NATO...

So please... answer ...

It's an easy one. They see the West continuing to do everything possible to have an all-out hot war with Russia and tensions are reaching levels not seen sense the Cuban Missile Crisis (Oh hey, remember how pissed we got when we found out a foreign adversary was putting weapons on our doorstep? That's what NATO has done with Russia but we can't talk about that) They align more with the West than they do with Russia. Pretty simple.

And I've said it before, I'm not a fan of Trump because he never veto'd a single spending bill while in office. His cabinet picks were littered with people actual conservatives despise (John Bolton as the primary example). He also continued to harass Jerome Powell to keep interest rates near zero which also played a major factor into our current inflationary environment. Your assumption that if you aren't pro war with Russia, then you're automatically a Trump stooge is lazy at best and a huge reason why people can't even have conversations these days. This world isn't binary, brochacho.

And you still haven't answered or responded to my main point. After literally decades of being lied to about foreign wars from Washington, in what rational world should we believe them today?  What's Russia's country body count vs the US since the Cold War ended? Answer those questions and I'll rest my case to a cold case of Coors Banquet for the weekend. Cheers! :)   

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2024, 01:48:33 PM
Oh stop the budgetary drama... I knew the whole border thing was a red herring... Biden could close the border completely and you would still say we don't have any money for Ukraine. Trump added nearly 10 trillion to the deficit himself... as soon as he could spend your money on bs he did then and he will again heaven forbid.
You still really have not ever answered why immediately following the Russia invasion... Finland and Sweden immediately asked to join NATO after decades of neutrality... you have never really answered why after being granted independence from the Soviet Union the Baltic states and Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc begged to join NATO...

So please... answer ...

QuoteUnspecified actors launched a drone at a military base in Transnistria, the pro-Russian breakaway republic in Moldova, on March 17 amidst an assessed ongoing Kremlin hybrid operation aimed at destabilizing Moldova from within. Transnistrian outlets claimed on March 17 that a single drone struck a helicopter on the territory of an unspecified military unit in Transnistria, posted video footage of the moment of the drone strike, and alleged that the drone flew from the direction of Odesa Oblast.[14] Neither Transnistrian nor Russian authorities have accused Ukrainian forces of conducting the strike as of this writing but may do so in the future. The former Transnistrian Supreme Council Chairman, Alexander Shcherba, claimed that the strike had "Ukrainian fingerprints" and that the "main beneficiary" was Ukraine.[15] The Moldovan Bureau of Reintegration stated that the struck helicopter had not flown for years, and the strike was deliberately meant to spread fear and panic in Transnistria, implying it was part of an adversarial information operation targeting Moldova, though the Bureau of Reintegration did not explicitly accuse Transnistrian or pro-Russian forces of conducting the strike.[16] Moldovan authorities stated that they were in contact with the Ukrainian government.[17] Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Spokesperson Andriy Yusov described the situation as a Russian provocation.[18] The Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation accused Russia of conducting the strike to manipulate the information space.[19] ISW cannot independently verify the details of the singular drone strike in Transnistria or identify the responsible actors, but it is unlikely that Ukrainian forces conducted the strike given the limited means used in the strike and the insignificant target. Ukrainian officials have also recently stated that Transnistria does not pose a military threat to Ukraine.[20] Transnistrian authorities recently asked Russia for unspecified "zashchita" (defense/protection) against Moldova, and Russia or Russian-linked actors would likely be the beneficiaries of this provocation in order to further the Kremlin's ongoing efforts to set information conditions to justify a variety of Russian hybrid operations that aim to destabilize Moldova, about which ISW has extensively warned.[21]

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 18, 2024, 07:05:26 AM
Right out of the Kremlin's Crimea/Ukraine invasion provocation handbook and surprising virtually no one...

Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on March 18, 2024, 03:26:41 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 18, 2024, 07:05:26 AM
Right out of the Kremlin's Crimea/Ukraine invasion provocation handbook and surprising virtually no one...

Where can I download the Kremlin's Invasion Handbook? Sounds like a made-up term from a US propaganda outlet.

The ISW is a Washington, DC think tank. I would take it with a grain of salt.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2024, 06:55:59 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on March 15, 2024, 06:18:25 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2024, 01:48:33 PM
Oh stop the budgetary drama... I knew the whole border thing was a red herring... Biden could close the border completely and you would still say we don't have any money for Ukraine. Trump added nearly 10 trillion to the deficit himself... as soon as he could spend your money on bs he did then and he will again heaven forbid.
You still really have not ever answered why immediately following the Russia invasion... Finland and Sweden immediately asked to join NATO after decades of neutrality... you have never really answered why after being granted independence from the Soviet Union the Baltic states and Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc begged to join NATO...

So please... answer ...

It's an easy one. They see the West continuing to do everything possible to have an all-out hot war with Russia and tensions are reaching levels not seen sense the Cuban Missile Crisis (Oh hey, remember how pissed we got when we found out a foreign adversary was putting weapons on our doorstep? That's what NATO has done with Russia but we can't talk about that) They align more with the West than they do with Russia. Pretty simple.

And I've said it before, I'm not a fan of Trump because he never veto'd a single spending bill while in office. His cabinet picks were littered with people actual conservatives despise (John Bolton as the primary example). He also continued to harass Jerome Powell to keep interest rates near zero which also played a major factor into our current inflationary environment. Your assumption that if you aren't pro war with Russia, then you're automatically a Trump stooge is lazy at best and a huge reason why people can't even have conversations these days. This world isn't binary, brochacho.

And you still haven't answered or responded to my main point. After literally decades of being lied to about foreign wars from Washington, in what rational world should we believe them today?  What's Russia's country body count vs the US since the Cold War ended? Answer those questions and I'll rest my case to a cold case of Coors Banquet for the weekend. Cheers! :)   

Your strawman about Trump stooges and binary worlds  is laughable brochacho... You can also add your hilarious "straight from the Kremlin " baloney about the West trying to provoke a war...  I  have posted multiple sources from all over the world supporting my views and most reasonable people while you have documented... well... nothing.  Literally. Show your work... document your assertions... I and others are very curious where you are getting your propa... er ... information from. Quotes maybe? With links even?

Cmon Brochacho... the world wants to know... :)

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on March 21, 2024, 11:57:57 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2024, 06:55:59 PM

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on March 15, 2024, 06:18:25 PM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2024, 01:48:33 PM
Oh stop the budgetary drama... I knew the whole border thing was a red herring... Biden could close the border completely and you would still say we don't have any money for Ukraine. Trump added nearly 10 trillion to the deficit himself... as soon as he could spend your money on bs he did then and he will again heaven forbid.
You still really have not ever answered why immediately following the Russia invasion... Finland and Sweden immediately asked to join NATO after decades of neutrality... you have never really answered why after being granted independence from the Soviet Union the Baltic states and Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc begged to join NATO...

So please... answer ...

It's an easy one. They see the West continuing to do everything possible to have an all-out hot war with Russia and tensions are reaching levels not seen sense the Cuban Missile Crisis (Oh hey, remember how pissed we got when we found out a foreign adversary was putting weapons on our doorstep? That's what NATO has done with Russia but we can't talk about that) They align more with the West than they do with Russia. Pretty simple.

And I've said it before, I'm not a fan of Trump because he never veto'd a single spending bill while in office. His cabinet picks were littered with people actual conservatives despise (John Bolton as the primary example). He also continued to harass Jerome Powell to keep interest rates near zero which also played a major factor into our current inflationary environment. Your assumption that if you aren't pro war with Russia, then you're automatically a Trump stooge is lazy at best and a huge reason why people can't even have conversations these days. This world isn't binary, brochacho.

And you still haven't answered or responded to my main point. After literally decades of being lied to about foreign wars from Washington, in what rational world should we believe them today?  What's Russia's country body count vs the US since the Cold War ended? Answer those questions and I'll rest my case to a cold case of Coors Banquet for the weekend. Cheers! :)   

Your strawman about Trump stooges and binary worlds  is laughable brochacho... You can also add your hilarious "straight from the Kremlin " baloney about the West trying to provoke a war...  I  have posted multiple sources from all over the world supporting my views and most reasonable people while you have documented... well... nothing.  Literally. Show your work... document your assertions... I and others are very curious where you are getting your propa... er ... information from. Quotes maybe? With links even?

Cmon Brochacho... the world wants to know... :)

LOL. You literally posted an article describing the CIA's involvement of the 2014 coup in Ukraine which instituted a new governing body that was far more favorable to America's interests in that region. How else could one interpret that other than a clear adversarial maneuver by the US towards Russia? But hey, you posted articles from other countries that agree with your point of view! Congrats brotatochip! I guess since 30 other countries joined the US in blowing Iraq half to hell then it most certainly was the right call based on your logic. But to tickle your fancy, here are a couple brief articles detailing why what's happening in Ukraine cannot be blamed solely on Russia which is entirely my point.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

If there's anything in there you don't think is actually true, then let it be known. But if you're so convinced Russia is such a threat beyond Ukraine (even though they're 2 years into this war with nothing to plant their flag on while incurring hundreds of thousands of casualties) then why don't you strap on some boots, put on a helmet and go join in on the front lines to save the world?

QuoteOn December 5, 1994, leaders of the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Russian Federation met in Budapest, Hungary, to pledge security assurances to Ukraine in connection with its accession to the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) as a non-nuclear-weapons state. The signature of the so-called Budapest Memorandum concluded arduous negotiations that resulted in Ukraine's agreement to relinquish the world's third-largest nuclear arsenal, which the country inherited from the collapsed Soviet Union, and transfer all nuclear warheads to Russia for dismantlement. The signatories of the memorandum pledged to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity and inviolability of its borders, and to refrain from the use or threat of military force. Russia breached these commitments with its annexation of Crimea in 2014]

Quotethen why don't you strap on some boots, put on a helmet and go join in on the front lines to save the world?

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 21, 2024, 07:22:55 PM

Quotethen why don't you strap on some boots, put on a helmet and go join in on the front lines to save the world?

Does it count if I already served 20+ in the US Navy?  How bout you?

QuoteBeyond Odesa is the mouth of the Danube, Transnistria, and the rest of the Republic of Moldova between the Dniester and the Prut rivers. If the Russian army crosses Odesa, there is nothing to stop it until the Romanian border. The Danube in Russian hands would be a geostrategic nightmare for Romania, a vital U.S. ally that feels directly threatened by the Russians, particularly now that it shares a maritime border after Putin seized part of the Ukrainian Exclusive Economic Zone.

QuoteRussian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's threatening statements at the Antalya Diplomacy Forum in Turkey on March 2 presage continuing Russian hybrid actions against the Republic of Moldova while shaping a rationale for taking control of the country.

Lavrov's argument that Moldova is discriminating against Russian-speaking minorities was the rationale Putin deployed against Ukraine. Secondly, more than 200,000 inhabitants of Transnistria have Russian citizenship, a fact that Moscow could use to justify military intervention according to the Russian Constitution and military doctrine. Thirdly, Lavrov accused Moldovan leaders of being under Romanian influence and seeking unification, reiterating the narrative of Western meddling that Putin used against Ukraine.

Lavrov made these statements on the same day the pro-Russian governor of the Gagauzia region visited Moscow. New destabilizing actions in Moldova can be expected in view of presidential elections in November, in which pro-EU President Maia Sandu could be re-elected.

A Repeat of Donbas?

If Russia were to seize Odesa and/or parts of the rest of the Ukrainian littoral, we could expect a repeat of the Donbas: a formal annexation of newly occupied territories, staged referenda—as in the Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk regions—and similar occurrences of terror, torture, and ethnic cleansing. 

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 14, 2024, 06:15:05 PM
We all know the whole maga bs about sending money to Ukraine instead of the border is a red herring anyway... even if Biden gave maga all they wanted for the border they would find something else to complain about and hold hostage...

QuoteA major turning point for the website was in August 2021, when it started to regularly carry reports and articles introducing or supporting Chinese and Russian positions on international and foreign policy issues. Previously, the website had hosted Foreign Ministry statements endorsing China on sensitive issues such as Hong Kong; but reports and articles on China and Russia were by and large limited to North Korea's diplomatic exchanges with these two countries, or Chinese and Russian entities praising North Korea and the Kim leaders. This new trend would turn out to be a key signal of Pyongyang's reorientation of foreign policy, and the website had, in effect, become a harbinger of North Korea's foreign policy change. Many of the reports and articles on China and Russia were unattributed and, by traditional standards, would have been considered "low-level," but they proved to be important.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 21, 2024, 07:22:55 PM

Quotethen why don't you strap on some boots, put on a helmet and go join in on the front lines to save the world?

Does it count if I already served 20+ in the US Navy?  How bout you?

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on April 02, 2024, 01:12:36 PM
I'm as excited for a Trump vs Biden rematch as San Marco residents are excited about self storage. I view Republicans as the lesser of 2 evils these days as more folks on that side of the isle tend to lean towards my own political viewpoints - at least on paper.

However, this past year was the first time I ever voted Democrat as I threw my vote for Donna. I think as time continues to play out that will end up being a solid vote. I've said it before, my reasoning was because I actually believe Donna has a true love for this city which can help transcend beyond politics. Don't agree with all her positions obviously but no candidate is perfect.

Having said that, you won't catch me dead voting for Biden. Unless of course the unthinkable happens before then and dead people have been known to vote Democrat over the years  ;D

QuoteApril 2 (Reuters) - Ukrainian drones attacked Taneco, Russia's third largest oil refinery, on Tuesday about 1,300 km (800 miles) from the front lines, hitting a core unit which processes about 155,000 barrels per day (bpd) of crude.

As of the end of March, around 14% of Russia's primary oil refining capacity had been knocked out by Ukrainian drone attacks, according to Reuters calculations....

Quote from: WarDamJagFan on April 11, 2024, 08:59:36 AM
Oh but I thought the call to not attack refineries wasn't true? lol.   

Interesting strategy from the same dolts telling us Russia will keep expanding West once Ukraine falls. Consider this WMD, part deuce.

Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on April 12, 2024, 11:12:29 AM
Pretty bold and slanderous to outright call a person pro-Russia for questioning the narrative around this conflict, Bridge Troll.

WarDamJagsFan, there's no reasoning here, this thread evidently just serves to post articles written by a DC thinktank to further justify our involvement in a war I wish we weren't "involved" in.

Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on April 12, 2024, 11:12:29 AM
Pretty bold and slanderous to outright call a person pro-Russia for questioning the narrative around this conflict, Bridge Troll.

WarDamJagsFan, there's no reasoning here, this thread evidently just serves to post articles written by a DC thinktank to further justify our involvement in a war I wish we weren't "involved" in.

QuoteRep. Michael McCaul, the Texas Republican who chairs the House Foreign Affairs Committee, told Puck in an interview last week that "Russian propaganda has made its way into the United States, unfortunately, and it's infected a good chunk of my party's base."

QuoteRep. Michael Turner, the Ohio Republican who chairs the House Intelligence Committee, agreed with McCaul during a CNN interview Sunday: "We see, directly coming from Russia, attempts to mask communications that are anti-Ukraine and pro-Russia messages – some of which we even hear being uttered on the House floor."

• Debate whether the cost of supporting Ukrainian combat victory is worthwhile
• Think our money and weapons are better utilized elsewhere
• Question whether we should be responsible for funding the defense of a country we don't have a mutual defense obligation to
• Believe the pre-war relationship with Russia was mishandled and contributed to Putin's decision to invade

• Assert that reports of war crimes and Putin's ambition are primarily propaganda
• Engage in whataboutism and moral equivalency to deflect from Russian misdeeds (I thought they were propaganda, anyway? Why deflect?)
• Sympathize or agree with the sentiment that Ukraine is rightfully Russian territory
• Assert that the invasion of Ukraine is a defensive operation against Western aggression

Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 12, 2024, 03:54:46 PM
It is very simply a false  narrative that  you  and the GOP are buying... hook,line, and sinker...

https://disinfowatch.org/disinfo/putin-repeats-false-claim-about-post-cold-war-nato-enlargement-during-carlson-interview/

https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/issues_development-enjeux_developpement/response_conflict-reponse_conflits/crisis-crises/ukraine-fact-fait.aspx?lang=eng#dataset-filter

https://balkaninsight.com/2022/06/22/the-truth-behind-the-myth-of-russia-threatened-by-nato/

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/one-more-time-its-not-about-nato/

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/exposing-russia-s-false-nato-narrative/

QuoteThe exhaustion of US-provided air defenses resulting from delays in the resumption of US military aid to Ukraine combined with improvements in Russian strike tactics have led to the increasing effectiveness of Russian missile and drone strike strikes against Ukraine without a dramatic increase in the size or frequency of such strikes. Russian forces have conducted two sets of large missile strikes since intensifying missile and drone strikes at the end of December 2023:  a series of strikes primarily targeting industrial and military facilities and critical infrastructure between December 2023 and February 2024 and an ongoing series of strikes heavily targeting Ukraine's energy grid since late March. Russian forces have not notably increased the number or size of their strikes since the initial intensification of their strike campaign in December 2023 and have conducted a relatively consistent number and intensity of strikes over the winter and into the spring. Russian forces have nonetheless inflicted increasing and long-term damage to Ukrainian energy infrastructure this spring.[ii] The increased effectiveness of Russian strikes does not appear to result from the use of more missiles and drones in each strike. Instead, Russian forces are exploiting the degradation of Ukraine's air defense umbrella caused by continued delays in Western security assistance and appear to be leveraging tactical adaptations stemming from several months of Russian efforts to test Ukrainian air defenses.[iii]  This pattern is alarming because it suggests that, absent a rapid resumption of US military aid, Russian forces can continue to deal severe damage to Ukrainian forces on the front lines and to Ukrainian critical infrastructure in the rear even with the limited number of missiles Russia is likely to have available in the coming months.

QuoteAMERICA'S STARK CHOICE IN UKRAINE AND THE COST OF LETTING RUSSIA WIN
Apr 16, 2024 - ISW Press

QuoteWhy You Can't Be an Iran Hawk and a Russia Dove

Frederick W. Kagan, Ashka Jhaveri, Annika Ganzeveld, Nicholas Carl, and George Barros

April 18, 2024

A Russian victory is an Iranian victory. Moscow and Tehran have formed a military bloc with the aim of defeating the United States and its allies in the Middle East, Europe, and around the world. Russian and Iranian military forces have been fighting alongside one another in Syria for nearly a decade. The Russians have given Iran advanced air defenses and access to other military technologies and techniques, in addition to a front-row seat observing their efforts to defeat American and NATO missile defenses in Ukraine.[1] The Iranians in turn have given the Russians drones and access to drone technologies, including assisting with the construction of a massive factory to turn out thousands of Iranian drones in Russia.[2] Further Russian support to Iran has been limited in part because of the setbacks Russia has suffered in Ukraine. A victorious Russia will be free to give Iran the advanced aircraft and missile technologies Tehran has long sought.[3] If Russia gains control of Ukraine's resources, as it seeks to do, it will be able to rebuild its own military and help Iran at the same time. Those concerned with the growth of Iran's military power, ambitions, and aggression in the Middle East must recognize the degree to which Iran's fortunes rise and fall with Russia's....

Quote from: Florida Power And Light on April 19, 2024, 08:43:51 PM
On this subject matter,I am drawn to Judge Napalotano and the Gray Zone for prescient insights.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 20, 2024, 07:29:16 AM

Quote from: Florida Power And Light on April 19, 2024, 08:43:51 PM
On this subject matter,I am drawn to Judge Napalotano and the Gray Zone for prescient insights.

Spelling counts... sheesh...lol

QuoteAPR 20, 2024, 01:48 PM | 118TH CONGRESS, 2ND SESSION

Vote Question: On Passage

Ukraine Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2024

Vote Type: Yea-And-Nay

Status: Passed

VOTES

 Yea: 311

Nay: 112

Present: 1

Not Voting: 7

QuotePutin's Propagandists Rage Against the Republican 'Betrayal'
By Julia Davis
April 22, 2024

Celebrating the decline in Ukraine's capabilities without American help, prominent propagandists started to refer to Speaker of the House Mike Johnson as "our Johnson," in a similar vein to claiming Trump as their own, calling him "our Trump" or affectionately referring to him as Trumpushka.

When Speaker Johnson finally advanced the long-stalled aid package and the House approved $61bn of desperately needed foreign aid for Ukraine — including a measure to allow the sale of frozen Russian sovereign assets to help Ukraine's war effort — the disappointment in Moscow was palpable...

Solovyov immediately contradicted himself by lauding one congressional representative who has stuck with the anti-Ukraine campaign. He approvingly played a clip of the extreme right-wing Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and one of her tirades against US aid for the embattled country. She was followed by the head of RT, Margarita Simonyan, a frequent guest on Solovyov's programs who always gets the first word after the host.

Simonyan praised Greene, describing her as "a real beauty," for her blonde hair, white coats, and fur collars. Later in the show, the RT head clarified that it doesn't take much in America to be considered beautiful or to win a beauty contest. In case viewers wondered about her expertise on the issue, Simonyan revealed that she had once worked as a waitress in Maine....

https://cepa.org/article/putins-propagandists-rage-against-the-republican-betrayal/

Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 21, 2024, 07:21:45 AM
Moscow Marjorie and her band of Putin sycophants are defeated... better late than never.

QuoteAPR 20, 2024, 01:48 PM | 118TH CONGRESS, 2ND SESSION

Vote Question: On Passage

Ukraine Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2024

Vote Type: Yea-And-Nay

Status: Passed

VOTES

Yea: 311

Nay: 112

Present: 1

Not Voting: 7

QuotePOPSOI: RUSSIA IS USING A VARIETY OF MEASURES — FROM AI-GENERATED DEEP FAKES TO BAGS OF CASH — TO UNDERMINE DEMOCRACY IN MOLDOVA

ByMARINA GRIDINA

APRIL 24, 2024

Russia employs a multifaceted array of tactics, ranging from AI-generated deep fakes to financial incentives, to subvert democracy in Moldova, offering a glimpse into potential challenges faced by Western nations, according to Mihai Popsoi, Moldova's Foreign Minister.

"Moldova is sort of a Petri dish of Russian hybrid warfare and election meddling. What we see in Moldova now will most likely be deployed in upcoming elections in our partner countries in the West," Mihai Popsoi, Moldova's foreign minister, said in an interview in Washington.

Describing Moldova as a testing ground for Russian hybrid warfare and election interference, Popșoi highlighted the significance of developments within the nation, indicating their potential replication in Western democracies. Moldova, with its population of 2.6 million and strategic location between Ukraine and Romania, has experienced mounting pressure since the onset of Russia's conflict with Ukraine, exacerbated by its reliance on Russian gas, which has triggered energy crises.

Popsoi outlined Russia's tactics, which include the creation of AI-generated deep fake videos targeting Moldovan politicians and the distribution of financial incentives to sway voters across villages and towns. With presidential elections and a referendum on European Union membership scheduled for October, these efforts are expected to intensify.

He revealed instances where Moldovan customs officials intercepted luggage containing substantial sums of cash, earmarked for voter bribery, with individual town and village names inscribed on the bags. Popsoi noted the fusion of traditional and modern methods by Russia to maximize their influence, incorporating tactics such as money laundering, AI manipulation, and the orchestration of protests.

Additionally, Popsoi emphasized cyber attacks as a favored tool of Russian interference. Moldova recently experienced a severe cyber attack that temporarily incapacitated postal services, a disruption attributed to Russia with high certainty by Moldovan authorities.

QuoteSituation Report: May 1-2, 2024Chasiv Yar, Ocheretyne, Sivers'k, Kharkiv

FRONTELLIGENCE INSIGHT

MAY 02, 2024

QuotePUTIN'S SAFE SPACE: DEFEATING RUSSIA'S KHARKIV OPERATION REQUIRES ELIMINATING RUSSIA'S SANCTUARY

May 13, 2024

By George Barros

Current US policy prohibiting Ukraine from using US-provided weapons in the territory of the Russian Federation is severely compromising Ukraine's ability to defend itself against the renewed cross-border invasion Russia has recently launched in Kharkiv Oblast.  US policy has effectively created a vast sanctuary in which Russia has been able to amass its ground invasion force and from which it is launching glide bombs and other long-range strike systems in support of its renewed invasion.  Whatever the merits of this US policy before the Russian assault on Kharkiv Oblast began, it should be modified immediately to reflect the urgent realities of the current situation...

QuoteRussian Security Council Deputy Chairperson Dmitry Medvedev threatened Russian internet technology and telecommunications company Yandex because its large language model failed to provide responses that cohere with ongoing Russian information operations. Medvedev criticized Yandex's Alisa voice assistant (ostensibly similar to Amazon's Alexa) on May 19 for being unable to answer questions about the US law approving the seizure of Russian foreign assets or supposed monuments in Ukraine to Nazi sympathizers.[17] Medvedev asserted that Yandex's artificial intelligence (AI) is a "coward" for failing to provide his desired answers to these questions and suggested that Yandex may be concerned about offending its Western clients. Medvedev suggested that Yandex's supposed unwillingness to provide answers to these questions greatly undermines trust in Yandex's products and could provide grounds for the Russian government to recognize Yandex's services as "incomplete" and even identify Yandex's current managers as "foreign agents." Russian news outlet RBK reported that Russian officials have previously submitted complaints against similar large language models for failing to generate sufficiently patriotic responses.[18] Russian officials will likely continue to struggle with shortcomings of large language models that are well known to others with more experience of those systems as the Kremlin continues efforts to solidify its control over the Russian information space.

QuoteRussian border guards removed buoys in Estonian waters of the Narva River, which demarcates the Estonian-Russian international border, likely to set conditions to further question maritime borders and test NATO resolve. The Estonian Police and Border Guard Board reported on May 23 that on the night of May 22 to 23 Russian border guards removed 24 buoys used to mark shipping routes in Estonian waters in the Narva River, which demarcates the international border between Estonia and Russia.[17] The Estonian Eastern Prefecture Border Guard Bureau Head Eerik Purgel stated that Estonia had placed the first 50 of a planned 250 buoys on May 13 in accordance with a 2022 Estonian-Russian agreement made prior to Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.[18] Purgel reported that Russia announced that it did not agree with the locations of about half of the planned placements of the buoys earlier in 2024. The Estonian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) stated that Russia's removal of the buoys "fits well within the broader pattern of Russia's provocative behavior" and stated that Estonia would treat the event as a "provocative border incident."[19] The Estonian MFA demanded an explanation from Russian border and diplomatic officials and the buoys' immediate return. Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas stated that "Russia uses border issues as a means to create fear and anxiety."[20] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) proposed on May 21 that the Russian government reassess its maritime borders in the Baltic Sea, and Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov called the Russian MoD's proposal "appropriate steps" to "ensure [Russian] security" in response to the escalation of tensions and the increased level of confrontation in the Baltic region.[21] Russian border guards are likely attempting to create contention along the international border between Russia and a NATO member country to gauge NATO reactions to future Russian efforts to challenge established delimitations.

QuoteThe price of Bakhmut. We reveal the staggering toll of Russia's bloodiest battle since WW2 and Wagner's inmates recruited to fight it

10 June 2024, 18:04

QuoteA Prisoner of War Describes Captivity in Russia"At Night, I Prayed I Wouldn't Survive to the Next Day"

When Russia invaded Ukraine, Oleksiy Anulya reported for military duty. Russian soldiers took him prisoner. How does one survive hunger, torture and rape? Here, a former prisoner of war tells his story.

By Alexander Kauschanski in Ternopil, Ukraine24.06.2024, 09.58 Uhr

It isn't possible to confirm every detail of Anulya's story. In Russia's war against Ukraine, information forms another battle line where where truth fights with lies, propaganda with facts. Very little information leaks out of Vladimir Putin's dictatorship, and Russia's detention centers are particularly shielded from prying eyes. Nevertheless, videos from the inside regularly make their way out – videos that show torture and bear witness to systematic brutality.

Despite a lack of access, human rights organizations and the United Nations have documented the conditions for Ukrainian prisoners of war in Russian captivity. The UN has spoken to more than 200 liberated Ukrainians for this purpose. In its dossiers, it accuses Russia of violating international humanitarian law, and possibly committing war crimes. The list of allegations includes prisoner abuse, inadequate nourishment, poor medical care, torture, sexualized violence and executions. Anulya is quoted in one of the documents.

DER SPIEGEL investigated Anulya's account as far as possible. We compared medical records, photo material and videos with his narrative and checked them against reports from international organizations. His medical documents, photos of his injuries and his emaciated body speak to the consequences of imprisonment in Russia. Anulya tells the story of his stint as a prisoner of war in his own words....

The soldiers brought me to an old farm near the Belarusian border. They tied me up and threw me into a room with another Ukrainian soldier. Filthy animal, the soldiers said when they saw that he had soiled himself. One shot, and he was dead.

They beat me. One soldier pointed his rifle at my knee. At first, he wanted information. Then, he said: 'Ok, you scumbag Ukrainian, have you washed your ass?' He told me to undress. He pulled down his pants. His knees were touching my calves. He grabbed my behind.

I wasn't able to free my hands. Another soldier held me down and said: 'Faster. I want a turn too.' Outside, dead bodies were burning on a truck, and I was covered in blood. Suddenly, there was a detonation, Ukrainian artillery attacked the site. The soldiers ran away. I was left behind, naked on the ground.

They came back the next morning. They tied my hands with a cable and pulled me up to the ceiling. And there I hung. Before long, I couldn't feel my hands anymore. They turned purple and swelled up to the size of my thighs. Every couple of hours, different soldiers showed up to beat me. I spent several days in unbearable pain. My medical files show the consequences: overstretched muscles and ligament damage.

In a small bus, they drove me across the border to a tent camp. A few weeks later, they drove me and other prisoners of war to a detention center in Kursk. I spent 40 days there. In early May, they put us in an airplane, our mouths taped shut and sacks over our heads. They told us we were flying home. When we got out, a Russian special forces unit beat us. My leg had started to rot, and it hurt like hell when I stretched it out. So I held it away from my body and hopped on the other one. Immediately, the Russians started calling me 'grasshopper.'

That night, we reached Penal Colony Nr. 1 in Donskoy, near Tula. Bright spotlights were shining on the two-story prison behind a wall topped with barbed wire. The guards beat us with clubs and tasered us. They pushed 50 of us into a small yard where we had to wait for hours. We were told we had to pee in a canister, but we weren't allowed to empty it on Russian soil. Whoever filled the canister had to drink it.

Every morning, we had to get up at 5:50 a.m. They forced us to sing the Russian national anthem over and over again in the icy cell. For breakfast, they gave us three spoonfuls of porridge, a thin slice of white bread and a small glass of boiling hot water.

At 9:30 a.m., the guards led us to the yard. They called us 'fascists,' and said: 'We'll set up your very own Auschwitz.' They beat us with pipes. Meanwhile, the others sang the Russian national anthem. We could still hear the screams of the ones being tortured. Few things are more frightening than the howls of grown men.

Most of the time, we had to stand in the cell with our hands behind our backs and our heads bowed. One knock from a guard meant we had to greet the 'boss.' Two knocks: We had to report how many prisoners were in the cell. Three: 500 squats. Four: shout 'Pika-pikachuuu' like the yellow Pokémon. Five knocks: Yell 'Zelenskyy is a faggot. Biden is a faggot. Putin is our president.'

One time, I was forced to chew on my filthy socks for three hours. They pulled my teeth for fun. They forced me to carry water in my mouth from a puddle to another spot of the yard. Fourteen times – I was counting – I hand to sit on the electric chair until my entire body spasmed.

Once, I was bleeding so heavily that they took me to the prison doctor. 'The guards aren't beating you, they are reeducating you,' she said, instead of treating me. 'We are vaccinating you against fascism, against being a Nazi.' I washed my self-made bandages with my own urine.

In late August 2022, after three-and-a-half months, they moved me to a penal cell. I was all alone. Water was dripping from the moldy walls. There was no window, just a flickering lightbulb. When winter arrived, the cold was almost unbearable. Only one thought kept me alive: If I were to die in Russia, my children wouldn't be able to visit me at my grave.

I fed myself on toothpaste from the garbage, I chewed on toilet paper to fight the hunger. In the yard, I collected earthworms – no piece of chocolate since then has tasted as good. One time, I managed to catch a rat. The guards saw on the surveillance video that I had moved. They dragged me out of the cell, but I had already put it in my mouth. The animal was scratching and bit my tongue. The guards beat me until they saw blood running out of my mouth. It wasn't mine. I happily crawled back to my cell. The rat would help me survive.

In December, the guards showed me a list, they were planning a prisoner exchange. My name was the only one that wasn't marked. They said they were going to keep me there. That day, I pulled the sheet from my bed, I wanted to hang myself from the bars. Then, something unexpected happened: My dead grandmother appeared at the sink. 'What are you doing?' she asked. 'You haven't got your children any New Year's presents yet.' The hallucination saved me. Before I could hang myself, the guards pulled the door open....

Quote"People's Satellite" Helped Ukraine Hit Over 1,000 Targets Spy Agency Says

A crowd-funded satellite has enabled Ukraine to have a much better independent view of the battlefield, as well as targets in Russia.

HOWARD ALTMAN
POSTED ON JUN 26, 2024 8:18 PM EDT

QuoteA network of Russia-based websites masquerading as local American newspapers is pumping out fake stories as part of an AI-powered operation that is increasingly targeting the US election, a BBC investigation can reveal.

A former Florida police officer who relocated to Moscow is one of the key figures behind it...

QuoteRussian Security Council Deputy Chairperson Dmitry Medvedev reaffirmed that Russia would not accept or uphold any negotiated peace settlements with Kyiv short of Ukrainian capitulation, the destruction of the entire Ukrainian state, and the full occupation of Ukraine. Medvedev stated on July 10 that even if Kyiv agrees to Russian President Vladimir Putin's most recent conditions for peace — namely recognizing Russia's territorial claims over eastern and southern Ukraine, including territory that Russia does not currently occupy, and pledging not to join NATO — and signs documents resulting in Ukrainian surrender, these actions will not constitute the "end of the Russian military operation" in Ukraine.[32] Medvedev stated that even if Ukraine surrenders, Russia will eventually still need to destroy the remaining Ukrainian "radicals" and return "remaining [Ukrainian] lands to the bosom of the Russian land." Medvedev also implied that Russian-Ukrainian negotiations will likely take place only after there is a radical change within the Ukrainian government and that this can only occur after Ukrainian society stages a "third bloody Maidan" revolution in response to a ceasefire agreement and Ukraine's willingness to abandon prospects for NATO accession. Medvedev insinuated that the Kremlin plans to continue its conquest of Ukraine following a negotiated peace agreement. Medvedev's argumentation also indicates that the Kremlin believes that the full conquest of Ukraine will be easier if Kyiv accepts deeply unpopular ceasefire agreements and concessions at the current stage of the war, in anticipation that Ukrainian society would demand a government change that could benefit the Kremlin. The Kremlin has misread domestic Ukrainian sentiment before, however. Ukrainian officials have long warned that the Kremlin launched an elaborate "Maidan 3" information campaign, which aims to undermine the Ukrainian government likely in order to trigger a government change and establish a pro-Kremlin government in Ukraine.[33]

Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 11, 2024, 07:02:00 AM

QuoteRussian Security Council Deputy Chairperson Dmitry Medvedev reaffirmed that Russia would not accept or uphold any negotiated peace settlements with Kyiv short of Ukrainian capitulation, the destruction of the entire Ukrainian state, and the full occupation of Ukraine. Medvedev stated on July 10 that even if Kyiv agrees to Russian President Vladimir Putin's most recent conditions for peace — namely recognizing Russia's territorial claims over eastern and southern Ukraine, including territory that Russia does not currently occupy, and pledging not to join NATO — and signs documents resulting in Ukrainian surrender, these actions will not constitute the "end of the Russian military operation" in Ukraine.[32] Medvedev stated that even if Ukraine surrenders, Russia will eventually still need to destroy the remaining Ukrainian "radicals" and return "remaining [Ukrainian] lands to the bosom of the Russian land." Medvedev also implied that Russian-Ukrainian negotiations will likely take place only after there is a radical change within the Ukrainian government and that this can only occur after Ukrainian society stages a "third bloody Maidan" revolution in response to a ceasefire agreement and Ukraine's willingness to abandon prospects for NATO accession. Medvedev insinuated that the Kremlin plans to continue its conquest of Ukraine following a negotiated peace agreement. Medvedev's argumentation also indicates that the Kremlin believes that the full conquest of Ukraine will be easier if Kyiv accepts deeply unpopular ceasefire agreements and concessions at the current stage of the war, in anticipation that Ukrainian society would demand a government change that could benefit the Kremlin. The Kremlin has misread domestic Ukrainian sentiment before, however. Ukrainian officials have long warned that the Kremlin launched an elaborate "Maidan 3" information campaign, which aims to undermine the Ukrainian government likely in order to trigger a government change and establish a pro-Kremlin government in Ukraine.[33]

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-10-2024

QuoteUkrainian cross-border mechanized offensive operations into Kursk Oblast that began on August 6 are continuing as part of a Ukrainian operational effort within Russian territory. ISW will not offer assessments about the intent of this Ukrainian operation in order to avoid compromising Ukrainian operational security. ISW will not make forecasts about what Ukrainian forces might or might not do or where or when they might do it. ISW will continue to map, track, and evaluate operations as they unfold but will not offer insight into Ukrainian planning, tactics, or techniques. ISW is not prepared to map control of terrain within Russia at this time and will instead map observed events associated with the Ukrainian incursion into Russian territory as well the maximalist extent of claims and unverified reports about Ukrainian advances. Maximalist claims and unverified reports about Ukrainian advances within Russia do not represent territory that ISW assesses that Ukrainian forces have seized or control. Inferring predictions about Ukrainian operations from ISW maps and assessments that do not explicitly offer such predictions is inappropriate and not in accord with their intended use.

(Detailed map of Ukrainian offensive. )
https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/UAF%20Kursk%20Incursion%20August%208%2C%202024.png

Geolocated footage and Russian claims indicate that Ukrainian forces continued rapid advances further into Kursk Oblast on August 8, and Ukrainian forces are reportedly present in areas as far as 35 kilometers from the international border with Sumy Oblast. Ukrainian forces most certainly do not control all of the territory within the maximalist extent of Russian claims about Ukrainian advances in Kursk Oblast, however. Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces advanced as far as Kromskiye Byki and Molyutino (up to 35 kilometers from the international border and 17 kilometers southeast of Lgov) but noted that these are small groups not immediately trying to hold territory.[1] Russian milbloggers issued contradictory claims about Ukrainian positions in Sudzha (northeast of Sumy City and roughly 10 kilometers from the international border), with some milbloggers claiming that Ukrainian forces seized the settlement while other milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces only seized part of the settlement.[2] Geolocated footage published on August 8 indicates that Ukrainian forces likely advanced towards Russkoye Porechnoye (north of Sudzha), and Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces also advanced further north of Sudzha along the 38K-024 highway near Anastasyevka.[3] Geolocated footage published on August 7 and 8 shows Ukrainian forces operating within Goncharovka (just west of Sudzha) and north of Zaoleshenka (northwest of Sudzha), and a Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces seized Goncharovka.[4] A geolocated photo shows Ukrainian forces operating within Novoivanovka (10km north of the international border and northwest of Sudzha), and Russian milbloggers also claimed that Ukrainian forces seized Novoivanovka and Bogdanovka (northwest of Sudzha).[5] Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces also advanced northwest of Sudzha into Malaya Loknya and to the outskirts of Cherkasskoye Porechnoye; northeast of Sudzha near Kruglenkoye, Martynovka, and Bolshoye Soldatskoye; and east of Sudzha near Mirny, although two Russian milbloggers denied claims that Ukrainian forces are operating near and within Bolshoye Soldatskoye.[6] Russian milbloggers also claimed that Russian forces repelled a Ukrainian attack near Korenevo (north of Sumy City and roughly 23 kilometers north of the international border) and that Ukrainian forces attacked within Snagost (south of Korenevo) and near Olgovka (east of Korenevo).[7]

Russian milbloggers claimed that small Ukrainian armored groups are advancing further into the Russian rear and bypassing Russian fortifications before engaging Russian forces and then withdrawing from the engagements without attempting to consolidate control over their furthest advances.[8] Russian milbloggers noted that the prevalence of these armored groups is leading to conflicting reporting because Ukrainian forces are able to quickly engage Russian forces near a settlement and then withdraw from the area.[9] Ukrainian forces appear to be able to use these small armored groups to conduct assaults past the engagement line due to the low density of Russian personnel in the border areas of Kursk Oblast. Larger Ukrainian units are reportedly operating in areas of Kursk Oblast closer to the international border and are reportedly consolidating and fortifying some positions.[10]

Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces are successfully fielding novel and innovative tactics and technological capabilities during operations in Kursk Oblast. Russian milbloggers have provided details on Ukrainian tactics and technological capabilities that they regard as innovative, but ISW will not describe such details at this time or point to specific sources in order to preserve Ukrainian operational security.

The Kremlin will almost certainly endeavor to retake Russian territory in Kursk Oblast that Ukrainian forces have seized and stop Ukrainian activity further into Russia, as substantial Ukrainian advances within Russia would be a strategic blow to Russian President Vladimir Putin's decades-long effort to cement a legacy of Russian stability, security, and geopolitical resurgence. Putin held a virtual meeting with Kursk Oblast Acting Head Alexey Smirnov on August 8 about Ukraine's operations into the oblast and stated that he "generally know the situation" but still would like to hear Smirnov's assessment of the situation.[11] Smirnov and Putin did not discuss Russian attempts to repel Ukrainian forces and portrayed the Russian government as effectively working to ensure civilian safety and social and monetary compensation. Russian milbloggers have highlighted concerns over the safety of Russian civilians and disorganized civilian evacuations.[12] Putin likely assesses that he must respond to the perceived threat to civilians in order to assure the Russian public that the situation is under control and avoid significant domestic discontent. Smirnov claimed on August 7 that the situation is "under [Putin's] personal control," directly linking Russian success in repelling Ukrainian forces in Kursk Oblast and mitigating related civilian issues to Putin.[13] The Kremlin previously has portrayed itself as capable of swiftly responding to pro-Ukrainian raids into Russia, and the Kremlin likely assesses that significant Ukrainian territorial gains in Russia would pose a threat to the Kremlin's efforts to frame itself as a stable regime in control of the internal security situation within Russia and an effective manager of the war in Ukraine.[14]

If Russian reporting on the situation in Kursk Oblast is accurate and if the Russian military command perceives the situation to be the same as Russian sources have described, then the Russian military command has an array of likely courses of action (COAs) it could pursue to respond to the Ukrainian operation in Kursk Oblast. ISW is not prepared at this time to assess which of these possible COAs is most likely, and it is possible that the Russian military command may not rely on only one COA to respond to the Ukrainian incursion into Kursk Oblast. The Russian military command's decision-making will be influenced by its perception of the size and capability of Ukrainian forces in the area, about which ISW makes no assessment. The following COAs are not presented in order of likelihood.

(Go to article to read entire COA assessments)

COA 1: The Russian military command may decide to use existing conscripts, Federal Security Service (FSB) border guards, Rosgvardia, and other irregular forces already deployed to the international border area to push Ukrainian forces back and defend against the Ukrainian operation in Kursk Oblast.

COA 2: The Russian military command may decide to use the existing Northern Grouping of Forces deployed along the Russian-Ukrainian border to respond to the Ukrainian operation in Kursk Oblast.

COA 3: The Russian military command may choose to redeploy operational reserves that it accumulated for its planned Summer 2024 offensive effort and/or relatively better provisioned and more combat effective frontline units to Kursk Oblast from elsewhere in the theater.

COA 4: The Russian military command may seek to maintain the forces it currently has committed to Kursk Oblast but could redeploy significant aviation and strike elements to the area in an effort to improve Russia's ability to retake territory.

The lack of a coherent Russian response to the Ukrainian incursion into Kursk Oblast and the reported rate of Ukrainian advance indicates that Ukrainian forces were able to achieve operational surprise along the border with Russia. Both Russian and Ukrainian forces have struggled to achieve operational surprise in the past year and a half of fighting due to the partially transparent battlefield in Ukraine. Ukraine's ability to achieve operational surprise highlights that the widespread visual and sensor-based transparency that both sides have established does not translate into a fully transparent battlefield, however, and that the belligerents in Ukraine can leverage ambiguity around operational intent to achieve operational surprise. One Russian milblogger criticized the Russian military command for failing to observe and react to Ukrainian forces allegedly massing on the border near Kursk Oblast.[28] A prominent Kremlin-affiliated Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces continually warned the Russian high command about a massing of Ukrainian forces along the border near Kursk Oblast but that the Russian command failed to adequately prepare for potential Ukrainian offensive operations.[29] Ukrainian forces would have successfully concealed their operational intent in order to achieve operational surprise if milblogger claims that Russian forces observed a buildup of Ukrainian forces in border areas are accurate. ISW has previously assessed that Russian forces have failed to internalize lessons learned about the difficulties of mechanized maneuver on an assumed transparent battlefield in Ukraine.[30] Ukraine, however, appears to be learning and adapting to this aspect of the battlefield given its ability to achieve apparent operational surprise in this instance.

Ukrainian officials have yet to comment directly on Ukraine's ongoing operation into Kursk Oblast. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky stated on August 8 that Russia "brought the war to Ukraine" and must "feel what it has done" in response.[31] Advisor to the Head of the Ukrainian President's Office Mykhaylo Podolyak acknowledged the ongoing "events" in Kursk Oblast and noted that Russia is to blame for the situation, and an unnamed advisor to Zelensky also acknowledged the ongoing Ukrainian military operation into Kursk Oblast during an interview with the Washington Post on August 8.[32]

US officials noted that Ukraine's ongoing operation into Kursk Oblast is not a violation of US restrictions on Ukraine's ability to strike military targets within Russia's border areas. Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh stated during a press briefing on August 8 that Ukraine's operation into Kursk Oblast is consistent with US policy and that the US supports Ukraine's right to defend itself against attacks across the international border.[33] White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre and State Department Spokesperson Matthew Miller also noted the Biden Administration's support for Ukraine's "common sense" and defensive actions on August 7.[34] Unnamed "US and Ukrainian officials" told CNN on August 8 that Ukrainian forces hope to disrupt and demoralize Russian forces and partially divert Russian forces from frontline areas in eastern Ukraine.[35]

QuotePutin offered several assessments about Ukrainian operations in Kursk Oblast, including one that undermined a long-standing Kremlin information operation falsely portraying Ukraine as unwilling to engage in legitimate, good-faith negotiations and putting the onus for peace negotiations on Ukraine. Putin claimed that Ukraine is "indiscriminately strik[ing] civilians, [striking] civilian infrastructure, and threaten[ing] nuclear power facilities" and implied that Russia cannot conduct good-faith negotiations with an actor who commits such actions.[9] Putin unironically but hypocritically accused Ukraine of striking civilians and endangering the nuclear power plants — actions that ISW has thoroughly documented Russia committing in Ukraine with strikes against civilian targets since the start of the full-scale invasion and the endangerment of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) since the Russian military occupied it in March 2022.[10] Putin also claimed, however, that Ukraine may be conducting operations into Kursk Oblast in order to "improve its negotiating position in the future."[11] Putin's assessment inherently implies that Ukraine is interested in negotiations — undermining the Kremlin's ongoing attempts to portray Ukraine as unwilling to negotiate. Putin also claimed that Ukraine may be conducting operations into Kursk Oblast to prevent Russian advances in eastern Ukraine and to destabilize the Russian domestic political situation. Putin notably did not present one assessment of Ukrainian operations in Kursk Oblast as more likely than another and did not present them as mutually exclusive. ISW will not offer assessments about the intent of Ukrainian operations in Kursk Oblast or Putin's claims of Ukrainian intent.

QuotePutin Is Vulnerable: Western Policy Masks Russian Weakness

Aug 14, 2024 - ISW Press

Putin Is Vulnerable: Western Policy Masks Russian Weakness

By Nataliya Bugayova
August 14, 2024

Russia has vulnerabilities that the West has simply not been exploiting. On the contrary, US incrementalism has helped the Kremlin offset and mask its weaknesses...

QuoteRussia depends on the will of others more than many people realize. A lot of Russia's capability to sustain the war in Ukraine is not inherent and is, therefore, vulnerable. The Kremlin acquired some of its capabilities by force, manipulation, or by exploiting Western resources and sanctuaries. Russia depends on basing in Belarus to attack Ukraine from the north. Russia depends on foreign trade routes and intermediaries to smuggle sanctioned goods.[13] Russia depends on foreign machinery and components to produce advanced weapons.[14] Russia depends on North Korea and Iran to offset shortages in materiel.[15] Russia depends on 'shadow fleets' to transport its energy.[16] Russia depends on Western media to cycle its false narratives. Russia depends on continued US will to grant Russia a safe space, from which Russia can strike Ukraine with impunity — without being struck back by Ukraine with long-range US-provided systems.[17] The Kremlin depends on continued Western choice not to expel the Kremlin's agents of influence and revenue, like Russia's state nuclear operator Rosatom.[18]

QuoteAbove all, the Kremlin depends on the West's accepting Russia's fabricated assertions about reality, which often cause the West to reason to conclusions that advance Russia's interests and not ours.[19] Key examples include the false assertion that Russia has the right to a self-defined sphere of influence, and, therefore, a right to do whatever it wants to those within this sphere — including invading — with no repercussions. Another example is a false assertion that any provision of advanced military capability to Ukraine is a red line that will result in a nuclear escalation, and therefore, the US should de facto grant a veto to any nuclear power over US national security policy. Kremlin's strategy in Ukraine disproportionately depends on the West accepting these premises, making Russia vulnerable to changes in Western perceptions. Russian dependencies give the West opportunities to exploit or dismantle Russia's capability to sustain the war against Ukraine.

QuoteWestern strategy should focus not only on imposing multiple dilemmas on the Kremlin but also on imposing the most painful ones. First, Russia's military failures are a lynchpin that makes other actions to degrade Russia's military capability more effective. Helping Ukraine restore maneuver to the battlefield, building on momentum afforded by Ukraine's operation in Kursk, and reinforcing the already successful efforts to demilitarize Crimea are therefore strategic, not only operational, priorities.[39] The United States can help Ukraine do so by opening all legitimate military targets within Russia for strikes with US weapons; increasing the speed and scale of capability deliveries to Ukraine; and surging US and partner defense production to sustain the momentum of capability deliveries to Ukraine. Second, Putin's center of gravity is his ability to shape the will and decisions of the West, Ukraine, and Russia itself.[40] The US must adopt a strategy to persistently dismantle the Kremlin-generated alternative reality that helps Russia advance in the real world.

QuoteThe shift to focusing on the Harris-Walz campaign reflects a strategic move by Russian actors aimed at exploiting any perceived vulnerabilities in the new candidates. Initially, Russian influence operations struggled to evolve their efforts following President Biden's departure from the 2024 US presidential race. However, in late August and September, we observed two Russian actors MTAC tracks closely — previously reported as Storm-1516 and Storm-1679 — using videos designed to discredit Harris and stoke controversy around her campaign. Specifically:  

Storm-1516, identified by news reports as a Kremlin-aligned troll farm, produced and disseminated two inauthentic videos, each generating millions of views. One video depicted an attack by alleged Harris supporters on a supposed Trump rally attendee, while another used an on-screen actor to fabricate false claims about Harris's involvement in a hit-and-run accident. This second video was laundered through a website masquerading as a local San Francisco media outlet — which was only created days beforehand. Storm-1679, a newer group reportedly aligned with the Kremlin, pivoted its focus from producing content about the 2024 Paris Olympic Games to publishing false videos discrediting Vice President Harris. One of the videos, which was shared on X shortly after it was published to Telegram, depicted a fake New York City billboard advancing false claims about Harris' policies. The X post received more than 100,000 views in the four hours after it was published on Telegram. 

QuoteMoldova — Time to Choose Moscow or Brussels

Moldova's election and referendum will determine whether it cements its path to Europe or falls back under Moscow's shadow.

By Anda Bologa

October 9, 2024

QuoteA Defense of Taiwan with Ukrainian Characteristics: Lessons from the war in Ukraine for the Western Pacific

By Riley Bailey and Frederick W. Kagan

October 30, 2024

Executive Summary

The war in Ukraine offers many important lessons for the defense of Taiwan against possible aggression by the People's Republic of China. The obvious differences between the theaters and the combatants must not be allowed to obscure the important changes in the character of war manifested in Ukraine that will likely apply to almost all future major conflicts. Some lessons will apply directly, since a successful amphibious invasion ends in ground combat. Others require abstraction and major adaptation. But the PRC is studying the war and drawing its own conclusions about how to prepare for future conflict in the western Pacific, and it behooves the United States, Taiwan, and our allies and partners to do the same.

The Ukraine war is demonstrating dramatic changes in the character of war in five main ways:

1) The effectiveness of integrated air/missile defense (IAMD) against even intensive and complex air/missile attack (a phenomenon also visible in Iranian attacks against Israel);

2) The ability of enormous masses of tactical drones—millions of drones used on both sides—to create partially transparent battlefields and constrain combat to positional forms;

3) The ability of integrated drone-missile attacks including both aerial and maritime drones to achieve mission kills and even catastrophic kills of major and minor surface combatants;

4) The expansion of electronic warfare (EW) capabilities to scales and effects never before seen in combat; and

5) The emergence of an extremely rapid battlefield technological-tactical innovation cycle, driven largely by a race between drone and EW technologies, that can see major changes implement along a thousand-kilometer frontline in as few as two-three weeks.

QuoteReuters — 

An undersea fiber optic cable between Latvia and Sweden was damaged on Sunday, likely as a result of external influence, Latvia said, triggering an investigation by local and NATO maritime forces in the Baltic Sea.

"We have determined that there is most likely external damage and that it is significant," Latvian Prime Minister Evika Silina told reporters following an extraordinary government meeting...

Quote
'It's Our Backyard': On Board a Lithuanian Patrol for Russian Hybrid Threats in the BalticAmid rising hybrid warfare in the Baltic Sea, a Lithuanian Navy command vessel seeks to prevent further incidents as part of NATO's Baltic Sentry operation.

QuoteRIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Russia and the U.S. agreed Tuesday to start working toward ending the war in Ukraine and improving their diplomatic and economic ties, the two countries' top diplomats said after talks that reflected an extraordinary about-face in U.S. foreign policy under President Donald Trump.

In an interview with The Associated Press after the meeting, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the two sides agreed broadly to pursue three goals: to restore staffing at their respective embassies in Washington and Moscow, to create a high-level team to support Ukraine peace talks and to explore closer relations and economic cooperation.

He stressed, however, that the talks — which were attended by his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, and other senior Russian and U.S. officials — marked the beginning of a conversation, and more work needs to be done.

QuoteRussia's Weakness Offers Leverage

By Christina Harward

February 19, 2025

Executive Summary

The United States can use the enormous challenges Russia will face in 2025 as leverage to secure critical concessions in ongoing negotiations to end the war by continuing and even expanding military support to Ukraine. Russia will likely face a number of materiel, manpower, and economic issues in 12 to 18 months if Ukrainian forces continue to inflict damage on Russian forces on the battlefield at the current rate. Russia's defense industrial base (DIB) cannot sustain Russia's current armored vehicle, artillery system, and ammunition burn rates in the medium-term. Russia's recruitment efforts appear to be slowing such that they cannot indefinitely replace Russia's current casualty rates without an involuntary reserve mobilization, which Russian President Vladimir Putin has shown great reluctance to order. Putin has mismanaged Russia's economy, which is suffering from increased and unsustainable war spending, growing inflation, significant labor shortages, and reductions in Russia's sovereign wealth fund. These issues will present difficult decision points to Putin in 2026 or 2027 provided current trends continue. 

Quote from: Charles Hunter on February 20, 2025, 10:06:00 AM
Interesting. But will Trump press this advantage? From his, and SecDef and SecState comments, it sounds like the Administration's position is to give Russia a hunk of Ukraine that they illegally seized, and isolating Ukraine from the west.  Is this part of the 'art of the deal'? Signal you are going to give the other party everything they want, then doing presto-chango and driving a hard bargain?

QuoteRussian forces failed to break Ukraine despite expending tremendous military, human, and economic resources to multiple offensive efforts. Ukrainian forces continue to deny Russian forces the ability to routinely stage massive assaults in most areas of the front, forcing Russian forces to conduct the majority of their assaults in small infantry groups rather than significant mechanized or even motorized pushes.[112] Ukrainian forces blunted many of the Russian offensive operations and drove Russian forces to sustain these casualties for their slow and limited gains.[113] Ukrainian forces are conducting their own strike campaign to degrade Russian offensive and defense industrial capabilities, chiefly targeting energy and oil infrastructure but also including Russian military command posts, airbases, and force concentrations.[114] Ukrainian forces launched their incursion into Kursk Oblast which has drawn and fixed Russian forces from across the theater, reportedly spoiled additional Russian offensive pushes across Ukraine's northern border, and forced Russia to rely on North Korean military personnel to defend its territory.[115] Russian forces continue to make tactical gains, especially in Russia's priority sectors of the frontline, but Ukraine's defense has forced Russian forces to pay substantial costs for advances that remain far below a rate normal for modern mechanized militaries and that are not sustainable in the medium term. Russia's offensive operations as of Winter 2024-2025 are slowing down and do not threaten to break the Ukrainian frontline anytime in the near term, assuming US and Western support continues...

QuoteRussian Presidential Aide and former Security Council Secretary Patrushev threateningly claimed that the Gulf of Finland has a historical "geographic affiliation with Russia" and that "it should not be forgotten that Finland was part of the Russian Empire." Patrushev claimed that the Russian Empire "respected" and "preserved" the Finnish people and language in the Grand Duchy of Finland. Patrushev appeared to try to compare Russia's current war against Ukraine to the Soviet-Finnish Winter War in 1939–1940. Patrushev claimed that Finnish attempts to seize Soviet lands and "actively militarize" created a threat to the USSR and that Finland was "indiscriminately exterminating" the Slavic population in Karelia. Patrushev claimed that the West is "again turning [Finland] into a springboard" for aggression against Russia. The Kremlin has used similar false narratives about the Ukrainian government's discrimination of Russian-speaking minorities in Ukraine and the military threats that Ukraine supposedly poses to Russia in order to justify Moscow's invasions of Ukraine. Patrushev's claims that the UK is "orchestrating" Finland's and the Baltic states' allegedly threatening behavior are likely part of the Kremlin's ongoing efforts to drive wedges between the United States and Europe and to weaken NATO[23] The Kremlin appears to be using the same general narrative playbook that it has used against Ukraine and other former Soviet states but is adjusting its narratives to exploit any tensions among Western states.

Quote

A Yale University unit that has played a key role in gathering evidence on Russian war crimes committed in Ukraine will close down on March 28 after the US State Department cut funding.

In an exclusive interview, the executive director of Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab, Nathaniel Raymond, told RFE/RL that the move was "a catastrophic blow" to efforts to document war crimes and bring people to justice.

Raymond said the unit was currently tracking the location of 35,000 children abducted from Ukraine by Russia. Abducting children is a war crime, and Russian President Vladimir Putin has been indicted for it by the International Criminal Court (ICC).

"The loss of our work is another win for those who want to obscure the truth and who want to prevent accountability," Raymond said.

Quote from: Charles Hunter on March 19, 2025, 08:47:49 AM
Well, we can't do anything to tarnish the image of tR*mp's boss, Mr. Putin.

Perhaps this thread could be renamed, "How much of Ukraine will tR*mp give to Putin?""

QuotePutin is Still Stealing Ukrainian Children

By Karolina Hird

March 24, 2025

Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine over three years ago with the intent, among other things, of stealing its children. Putin launched his imperial conquest to first and foremost dominate the Ukrainian people, and he recognized that to deprive Ukraine of its children would be to deprive it of its multigenerational potential. When Russian troops rolled across the border into Ukraine on the night of February 24, 2022, the groundwork for the massive deportation of Ukraine's children was already in place. Ukrainian human rights activists uncovered Kremlin documents dated February 18, 2022, which laid out plans to remove Ukrainian children from orphanages in occupied Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts and bring them to Russia under the guise of "humanitarian evacuations." These documents revealed that Russia planned to target vulnerable Ukrainian children, especially those without parental care before the full-scale invasion had even begun. In the subsequent three years, Russia has embarked on a Kremlin-directed, deeply institutionalized project to abduct Ukrainian children and forcibly turn them into the next generation of Russians.

Ukraine has been able to verify Russia's deportation of 19,456 children to date, although the true figure is likely to be much higher because Russia frequently targets vulnerable children without anyone to speak for them.[1] Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab placed the number of deported children closer to 35,000 as of March 19, 2025.[2] Putin's Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova (against whom the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant in March 2023 for her role in abducting children alongside Putin) claimed that Russia has "accepted" 700,000 Ukrainian children between February 2022 and July 2023—a terrifying benchmark for the lengths that Russia is willing to go to rob Ukraine of its own people.[3] The true number of deported children is near-impossible to verify, but the implication remains the same—Russia has stolen tens, potentially hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children with the explicit intent of eradicating their Ukrainian identities and turning them into Russians. International law explicitly forbids the forcible transfer of children from one group to another group for the purpose of destroying, in whole or in part, a national or ethnic group, and considers these violations as constituent acts of genocide.[4]

Russia's crimes against Ukrainian children have been remarkably well-documented, particularly by the perpetrators themselves. The Russian legal system made immediate accommodations for the intended influx of stolen Ukrainian children, signaling the intentionality behind Putin's deportation project. Putin signed a decree in May 2022 providing for a simplified procedure for the acquisition of Russian citizenship for Ukrainian "children left without parental care and incapacitated persons," which amounted to a legalization of the process of deporting Ukrainian children and forcibly granting them Russian citizenship.[5]

With the legal framework in place before the full-scale invasion, Russian occupation administrators and occupation officials have blatantly advertised programs that take Ukrainian children from their homes in occupied Ukraine to Russia under a variety of guises, such as camps for their supposed rest, relaxation, and rehabilitation.[6] As recently as March 19, 2025, Zaporizhia Oblast occupation head Yevgeny Balitsky announced that his administration, with financial support from the Russian Ministry of Education, plans to remove 70 children from occupied Zaporizhia Oblast to a Russian government-controlled children's camp in occupied Crimea in order to give the children an opportunity to "rest and improve their health" after living in proximity to the frontline.[7] Russia has gone to great lengths to claim that these crimes are humanitarian gestures, but the legally-consistent humanitarian response would be to transfer Ukrainian children back to Ukrainian-controlled territory and return them to the care of their fellow Ukrainians—not deport them to the invading country.

(https://understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/kids%20are%20looking%20for%20new%20families.jpg)

Author screenshot of the Krasnodar Krai Regional Administration page on August 23, 2022. Translation: "Kids from Mariupol are looking for new families."

Russia's abduction of Ukrainian children inflicts lasting psychological impacts as children are forced to assimilate to life inside a hostile occupying power.[8] Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab has confirmed that Russia is using at least 43 children's camps throughout Russia to house deported children, at least 32 of which are explicitly "re-education" facilities.[9] At least one of these camps in Russia's far eastern Primorsky Krai is physically closer to Alaska than it is to Ukraine. Russia uses these camps to indoctrinate Ukrainian children, punishing them for their Ukrainian identities and forcibly instilling pro-Russian sentiment through carefully curated Kremlin-approved curricula and "military-patriotic" training courses. Chechen Republic Head and close Putin ally Ramzan Kadyrov has lauded the "military-patriotic" training of abducted Ukrainian teenagers in Chechnya, for example.[10] Former Ukrainian Children's Rights Commissioner Mykola Kuleba has termed these re-education programs as "death camps for Ukrainian identity."[11]

Of the tens of thousands of children whom Russia has deported since 2022, a likely significant portion have been forcibly adopted into Russian families. Dmytro Lubinets, Ukraine's Human Rights Commissioner, stated that Ukraine has confirmed at least 400 children whom Russian families have adopted, but as with estimated number of deportations, the true number of adoptions is likely to be much higher.[12] Within the first six months of the invasion, Russia's Krasnodar Krai regional administration posted a quickly deleted advertisement claiming that there were over 1,000 orphans from occupied Mariupol alone "awaiting" adoption into Russian families. High-ranking Russian officials with close ties to Putin, such as Lvova-Belova herself and A Just Russia Duma Deputy Sergei Mironov, have adopted abducted Ukrainian children from occupied Mariupol and Kherson, respectively.[13]

The adoption process strips Ukrainian children of their Ukrainian names and birthplaces, replacing them with Russian birth certificates and documentation intended to erase the child's Ukrainian identity and any paper trail that would allow Ukrainian authorities or family members to search for the child.[14] For teenage Ukrainian boys, their forced acceptance of Russian citizenship can result in a near immediate military summons to fight in the Russian army against their fellow Ukrainians—a completely separate but equally clear violation of international law.[15] The Russian adoption system is swallowing Ukrainian children up into a bureaucratic black hole, premised on the administrative eradication of Ukrainian identity. For the younger children, especially those adopted in their infancy, their adoption means that an entire generation of Ukrainians are growing up in Russia, unaware that they are Ukrainian.

There can be no true peace in Ukraine without the return of the children that Putin has stolen. The fate of these children is inextricably tied to both the military and political outcomes of Putin's war. Negotiations and an end to the fighting without consideration for the deported children will empower Russia to continue to commit these crimes with absolute impunity. A negotiated outcome to the war on any terms but Ukraine's will result in the loss of Ukraine's children, a loss that will be impossible to reverse.

QuoteRevealed: Russia's secret war in UK waters

Russian sensors trying to track nuclear submarines have been found in a campaign of 'greyzone' warfare that also targets our energy and internet. Even oligarchs' superyachts are in on it...

QuoteSenior Kremlin officials continue to set informational conditions that could support military operations against Lithuania (and other NATO states) by advancing narratives that deny the sovereignty of Lithuania and other former Soviet states. Independent Russian media outlets Meduza and Agentstvo reported on May 2 that Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov authored the foreword of a new book titled "History of Lithuania," which the "Foreign Relations" publishing arm of the Moscow State Institute of International Relations (MGIMO) published in March 2025.[13] Lavrov's foreword claimed that the national policies of Baltic countries, including modern Lithuania, leverage "falsified" historical narratives to "stimulate" Russophobic and anti-Russian sentiments in their domestic audiences.[14] Lavrov claimed that the book seeks to analyze the development of the "lands that were associated with Lithuania at different times." Lithuanian Foreign Minister Kęstutis Budrys stated that the book is a Russian propaganda tool designed to provide the Kremlin with scholarly literature to support its denial of neighboring countries' statehoods and histories separate from that of Russia.[15] Kremlin officials, including Russian President Vladimir Putin, have recently intensified their threats against Europe — particularly the Baltic States — due to Europe's alleged "Russophobia."[16] Kremlin officials have also indicated that Russia views independent states that were once part of the Russian Empire and Soviet Union as part of modern-day Russia.[17]

QuoteBeyond humanityUkrainian prisoners of war recount the unspeakable torture they endured in Russian captivity in a new human rights report

QuoteRussia's hybrid warfare strategy extends beyond its war against Ukraine as it also targets other European frontline states through influence operations, election interference, and intimidation. The Baltic States—Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania—are targeted by Russian hybrid tactics as a daily reality and direct challenge to their sovereignty.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on June 03, 2025, 07:18:53 AM
Kudos and high fives to Ukraine for their remarkable drone strike on Russia... this article details AI and ML drone programs in both Russia and Ukraine...

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/battlefield-ai-revolution-not-here-yet-status-current-russian-and-ukrainian-ai-drone

Quote from: Tacachale on June 03, 2025, 11:10:20 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on June 03, 2025, 07:18:53 AM
Kudos and high fives to Ukraine for their remarkable drone strike on Russia... this article details AI and ML drone programs in both Russia and Ukraine...

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/battlefield-ai-revolution-not-here-yet-status-current-russian-and-ukrainian-ai-drone

Hahaha you love to see it.

QuoteThe Rise of the Container War
What makes this strike truly revolutionary is not the damage it caused, impressive as that may be, but the delivery mechanism. Ukrainian operatives launched the drones from converted shipping containers, indistinguishable from the millions of others traversing the globe every day.

This is not a theoretical threat, nor is it an innovation unique to Ukraine; containerized warfare has been under discussion for years. It's such a well-established concept that it has appeared in video games. What Ukraine has done is take the concept out of the military-industrial PowerPoint deck and force it openly into the battlespace.