https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/balanky-seeks-anchor-tenant-for-proposed-up-to-1-million-square-foot-kings-avenue-station
Quote
Developer Mike Balanky is seeking a user or anchor tenant for an up to 1 million-square-foot office building that could be built on the Downtown Southbank of the St. Johns River.
It's the site he had proposed for the JEA headquarters. JEA chose to lease a building proposed on the Northbank near the Duval County Courthouse.
This is interesting in some ways, but in other ways not news. So basically, they spent time designing an office buildings for a tenant that never came and now would love to build that building for anyone. Not exactly a reach.
Wasn't the building they designed about 200k sqft? Are they just going straight up to accommodate a larger sized tenant?
QuoteCushman & Wakefield also said more than 1,000 apartments are expected to open in the area by the end of 2020, "adding high-quality, convenient housing options for a user's employee base.
How do they get to 1000 new units complete by the end of 2020? Where? Maybe a little over 500 if we're counting the stuff down on Philips Highway.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 30, 2019, 02:30:30 PM
Wasn't the building they designed about 200k sqft? Are they just going straight up to accommodate a larger sized tenant?
According to Lenny's twitter page, we're going vertical baby!
If he gets a tenant that will essentially be the death penalty for Lot J and the Jags in Jax.
I'm still wondering what will be the financial ask for Lot J? Back during the JEA headquarters competition, they claimed they were ready to go and Ryan still had to go through the RFP process to buy the Adams Street lot.
A million SF is like the Wells Fargo building in size, right? With the smaller footprint that would be about 60 stories?
Heights Unknown would be ecstatic!
Quote from: vicupstate on May 30, 2019, 04:09:08 PM
A million SF is like the Wells Fargo building in size, right? With the smaller footprint that would be about 60 stories?
Heights Unknown would be ecstatic!
I believe the largest single office building in Jax is the TIAA Bank Building at close to 1 million SqFt. This would likely eclipse that IF it's built at that height. My guess is the way the structure was designed for the RFP, they could structurally add floors to the build as needed up to a certain amount.
The question the article doesn't ask is how large of an "anchor" do they want? 150k SqFt? 250k SqFt? Then what's the ratio they would build if the anchor was okay not being the only tenant? If they anchor is 200k SqFt do they then build 600k SqFt?
Past 200k, those size of companies don't move very often.
This thing would tower over the Southbank at 1M Sq Ft
I'd rather have 4 to 5 towers than 1 very large tower smh
Would it make sense to partner with Rummell and build this square footage at The District, and sell or let go of his lease?
The more I think about this, the more it doesn't make sense as written in the article.
During the JEA HQ process, he had a site plan that indicated potential for two additional buildings plus vacant land for another building of some sort. Between the 4 pads for buildings, getting to 1M SqFt isn't a stretch. On the other hand, stacking 5 of what he proposed on top of each other seems a bit hard to believe.
I don't know if all 4 pads on the property are development ready, but assuming they are I'd think 4 mid-rises would be cheaper than what could rival the tallest buildings in the city. Not that I'm opposed to vertical construction.
Based on a conversation I had with someone at Chase Properties, 1,000,000 is the max allowable on that site, but not necessarily what they're planning to do. They likely threw out the huge number so that they didn't miss out on Deutsche Bank, who despite financial troubles, wants to move 2,000 employees downtown.
I think the size will be no larger than 300k sqft, which would still be very impressive and look quite imposing from I-95.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 31, 2019, 10:03:37 AM
They likely threw out the huge number so that they didn't miss out on Deutsche Bank, who despite financial troubles, wants to move 2,000 employees downtown.
Really? While that would certainly be a good number for downtown, are we sure they're going to be in business in 4 years?
My guess is if they really want to move that many employees downtown, you'll have more than a few proposals originate out of thin air to facilitate their needs
Quote from: thelakelander on May 30, 2019, 04:04:43 PM
I'm still wondering what will be the financial ask for Lot J?
It's gonna be very, very complicated, from the sounds of it, with different partnerships and financing packages for all five components of the plan. This is a big part of the reason it's taking so long, even though Curry wants to move on it fast.
Here's how I think the ask is going to shake out:
1)
Parking Garage: The parking garage, roads, utilities, and greenspace will be paid for by the city, as would any necessary remediation work. Public ask: $80-$100 million.
2)
Live Arena!: Cost split evenly between Cordish and the Jags. Public ask: $0
3)
Apartment Tower: Co-developed by Jags and Cordish; Public ask: Rev grant up to $35 million
4)
Hotel: I've heard co-development, but I've also heard that the Jags might do the hotel outside of Cordish on their own. Public ask: $30 million completion grant.
5)
Office: Partnership between Cordish and City. Public ask: Rev grant up to $30 million
Total incentives package: ~$180-$200 million
That is a LOT of money for 1 apartment building, 1 hotel, and an office building.
Put it this way: the Ryan company development for JEA is slated to cost $72M, including land purchase. I could find three vacant lots downtown, but them, and build all of this for $200M. The massive Parking Garage is what hoses everything up. At $20k/space it's a 5,000 car garage, which is quite the parking facility.
If that's seriously the ask count me out (and I might be the biggest Jags fan on this site). For $200M you could probably give a 15% subsidy to the development of every vacant lot from Broad, Union, Liberty and the River and still have money left over.
Quote from: Steve on May 31, 2019, 10:34:39 AM
That is a LOT of money for 1 apartment building, 1 hotel, and an office building.
Put it this way: the Ryan company development for JEA is slated to cost $72M, including land purchase. I could find three vacant lots downtown, but them, and build all of this for $200M. The massive Parking Garage is what hoses everything up. At $20k/space it's a 5,000 car garage, which is quite the parking facility.
If that's seriously the ask count me out (and I might be the biggest Jags fan on this site). For $200M you could probably give a 15% subsidy to the development of every vacant lot from Broad, Union, Liberty and the River and still have money left over.
Numbers are just an educated guess based on what Cordish has squeezed out of other cities for similar developments.
Could see it dropping down to maybe $150-160 million if Cordish considers the city-built garage for the entire development to be enough of an incentive in itself to not get too greedy with the other grants.
Either way, it's going to be super expensive.
Quote from: Steve on May 31, 2019, 10:15:09 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 31, 2019, 10:03:37 AM
They likely threw out the huge number so that they didn't miss out on Deutsche Bank, who despite financial troubles, wants to move 2,000 employees downtown.
Really? While that would certainly be a good number for downtown, are we sure they're going to be in business in 4 years?
I was joking. I don't see DB investing much money in anything in the next few years. My point was that in the event a company needs more than the 200k they offered JEA, they don't want to miss out by stating too low a number. I don't know that Jax has a company like that, but it sure would be nice.
I will say this, the "roads, utilities, greenspace, and necessary remediation work" I'm open to, as I do feel like those are responsibilities of government.
The garage I have a hard time with the city funding entirely as there isn't demand for a 5,000 space garage today (without the development). It doesn't make sense for the city to fund a garage solely so a private developer can make money.
Where is the city going to get even $50 million much less the $150-$200mm we would be talking about?
How big is the Apartment and office buildings we are talking about? Are they being built SPEC?
300 apartment units, 200 room hotel. When they were going after JEA, the office building would have been around 200,000 square feet.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/whats-next-for-lot-j-the-jaguars-dollar500-million-development-proposal
Quote from: vicupstate on May 31, 2019, 11:21:44 AM
How big is the Apartment and office buildings we are talking about? Are they being built SPEC?
300-units for the apartment building.
This seems to be Cordish's sweet spot for this type of developement.
See:
One Cardinal Way (297 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/one-cardinal-way
One Light (316 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/one-light-luxury-apartments
Two Light (296 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/two-light-luxury-apartments
Office component will likely end up being somewhere between 125,000 and 250,000 square feet.
See:
Pattison Place (200,000 sf) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/pattison-place
PwC Pennant Building (125,000 sf) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/the-pwc-pennant-building
The City should just cut out the middle man and keep all the profit for themselves (see the stupid Daily's Place Amphitheater deal). Alas, it isn't about the City being financially sound, it is about saving the Jags in Jax. This is just a way to funnel tax dollars to the team disguised as economic development. I'm still waiting to hear about the thousands of jobs this will create because you know that is coming.
Quote from: MusicMan on May 30, 2019, 08:29:46 PM
Would it make sense to partner with Rummell and build this square footage at The District, and sell or let go of his lease?
that would require Rummel to actually build something
Quote from: KenFSU on May 31, 2019, 11:43:55 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 31, 2019, 11:21:44 AM
How big is the Apartment and office buildings we are talking about? Are they being built SPEC?
300-units for the apartment building.
This seems to be Cordish's sweet spot for this type of developement.
See:
One Cardinal Way (297 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/one-cardinal-way
One Light (316 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/one-light-luxury-apartments
Two Light (296 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/two-light-luxury-apartments
Office component will likely end up being somewhere between 125,000 and 250,000 square feet.
See:
Pattison Place (200,000 sf) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/pattison-place
PwC Pennant Building (125,000 sf) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/the-pwc-pennant-building
300 residential and 200 hotel units is absolutely nothing for a project with the type of incentives you mentioned. In an area that is virtually an island, with little residential nearby, that is simply not enough residents and hotel guests to create a vibrant district.
I'm going to wait till all the details of the proposal come out, but am becoming more and more skeptical by the minute.
Jax isn't getting a vibrant district. That's only dreams being sprouted by local media and the mayors office. You'll get some new development. Maybe an Xfinity Live type scene but no way will anything in the stadium district resemble what's in St. Louis and Kansas City. Both of those projects are located in urban areas with significant pre-WWII density. Not surface parking lots a mile a way from the core. So at best, if "vibrancy" is defined as being a 24/7 type of district, we're a few decades at best from that materializing.
There's a development timeline associated with every project and it's also impacted by market conditions (especially the mega projects). Recently, it's been pretty silly seeing quotes and promises of 1,000s of units coming online in one to three years, when reading about the District and Lot J/Shipyards. The reality is...if construction started today, it would take a year or two working on infrastructure associated with these projects before anything went vertical. Not to say that they should not be done or supported but neither will be significantly complete by the time Curry leaves office. Expectations for what they will accomplish and by when should become more realistic locally to avoid mass disappointment.
Quote from: vicupstate on May 30, 2019, 04:09:08 PM
A million SF is like the Wells Fargo building in size, right? With the smaller footprint that would be about 60 stories?
Heights Unknown would be ecstatic!
You know I would, so I'm waiting to just stand or sit and gaze up in the clouds when they're done. Southbank has two talls already, and many mid sized scrapes; adding something in the upper 400 or 500 foot range would almost rival northbank. I know its early, but yes, vic, I am ecstatic!!! Keeping my fingers crossed; aren't you all ecstatic with hope?
Quote from: JaGoaT on May 30, 2019, 08:18:13 PM
I'd rather have 4 to 5 towers than 1 very large tower smh
That's a good point; case in point, Mobile Alabama with the Battlehouse Tower. One 700 footer and almost nothing else, save the 450 footer and those two towers are about the only game in town; however, I don't think our skyline would suffer at all with one very tall scraper on the southbank; northbank certainly takes up the slack with the whole skyline of north and southbank.
Y'all don't think that this tower is linked with his 2018 idea/vision/proposal of a 28 story tower on the southbank with gondolas linking the southbank with the northbank. I certainly hope not; funky idea if you ask me.
Quote from: heights unknown on June 01, 2019, 11:53:22 PM
Y'all don't think that this tower is linked with his 2018 idea/vision/proposal of a 28 story tower on the southbank with gondolas linking the southbank with the northbank. I certainly hope not; funky idea if you ask me.
This is the same developer and site.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 02, 2019, 08:24:32 AM
Quote from: heights unknown on June 01, 2019, 11:53:22 PM
Y'all don't think that this tower is linked with his 2018 idea/vision/proposal of a 28 story tower on the southbank with gondolas linking the southbank with the northbank. I certainly hope not; funky idea if you ask me.
This is the same developer and site.
The view of vacant lots from the gondolas will be amazing.
LOL...maybe they should have a street car tour around downtown to the 10 best vacant lots after the gondola ride over the St. Johns River. LOLOL. I LOVE MY JAX but hate the City Government.
To me this is getting absurd now:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/developer-says-kings-avenue-station-building-on-southbank-could-be-40-stories
Sounds pretty conceptual to me. He'll build whatever and in whatever shape or size for anyone willing to pay to go there. Definitely don't see a need for a 40 story office tower. If I had to guess, this sounds like the more realistic path....
QuoteIf a tenant isn't identified by year-end, Balanky said Chase will take "the mixed-used direction."
Balanky said he is considering a 15-story building of 360,000 square feet that would involve ground-floor retail stores topped by office space and 276 apartments. He's also looking at building additional hotel rooms.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 03, 2019, 09:00:23 AM
Sounds pretty conceptual to me. He'll build whatever and in whatever shape or size for anyone willing to pay to go there. Definitely don't see a need for a 40 story office tower. If I had to guess, this sounds like the more realistic path....
QuoteIf a tenant isn't identified by year-end, Balanky said Chase will take "the mixed-used direction."
Balanky said he is considering a 15-story building of 360,000 square feet that would involve ground-floor retail stores topped by office space and 276 apartments. He's also looking at building additional hotel rooms.
Agreed. For that amount of office space, you could probably build the place spec as the market shows retail is healthy there and the apartments would almost certanly lease with no issue assuming the pricing is aligned with the market.
I bet if a national company wanted to build a 40 story building in Palatka, there is a developer that would build it too.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 03, 2019, 09:50:07 AM
I bet if a national company wanted to build a 40 story building in Palatka, there is a developer that would build it too.
Is there a national company that would move into a 40 story building in Palatka if it were free?
Where will we park for Bearded Pig? That's the real story here.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 03, 2019, 01:17:12 PM
Where will we park for Bearded Pig? That's the real story here.
I nominate renaming the "Jacksonville Skyway" as "The Bearded Pig Express."
90% of my Skyway useage is for the express purpose of visiting the 'Pig.
---
On Balanky, the million square-foot office tower
probably isn't going to happen, but if he's serious about it, I kind of love the mixed-use idea with ground-level retail, lighter office, apartment and hotel.
On a side note, I posted earlier this year about how I was a little bit worried about some softening in the downtown hotel market.
Seemed to be more of a two-month blip than a bigger trend.
Really solid numbers these last three+ months, occupancy between 78% and 90%, even with the Stones canceling and releasing a bunch of rooms back onto the market at the last minute.
QuoteBalanky and Cushman & Wakefield emphasized the signage opportunities at the site. Cushman & Wakefield said 56 million cars pass by annually along I-95.
They love emphasizing this point, but I guess they haven't looked at the newest numbers from FDOT that were released in April. It's up to 167,000 vehicles per day, which is about 61 million per year.
https://tdaappsprod.dot.state.fl.us/fto/ (https://tdaappsprod.dot.state.fl.us/fto/)
Quote from: Steve on June 03, 2019, 08:53:17 AM
To me this is getting absurd now:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/developer-says-kings-avenue-station-building-on-southbank-could-be-40-stories
It is getting ridiculous and absurd, but yes, HEIGHTS UNKNOWN is salivating.
With the current zoning could a 40 story building be built? I'm curious since, IIRC, I-95 is the cut off for downtown.