https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public
#1 UC-Berkeley
#1 - UCLA (tied)
#3 - UVA
#4 - Michigan
#5 - UNC
#6 - William and Mary
#7 - Georgia Tech
#8 - UC-Santa Barbara
#9 - University of Florida
#9 - UC-Irvine (tied)
#9 - UC-San Diego (tied)
With all the Amazon talk concerning quality sources of talent, in the future, Jax has to use UF as an advantage in attracting companies with its presence here and so close in Gainesville.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 13, 2017, 01:14:26 PM
With all the Amazon talk concerning quality sources of talent, in the future, Jax has to use UF as an advantage in attracting companies with its presence here and so close in Gainesville.
Don't see how that would work, as UF is 70 miles away.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 13, 2017, 01:51:03 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 13, 2017, 01:14:26 PM
With all the Amazon talk concerning quality sources of talent, in the future, Jax has to use UF as an advantage in attracting companies with its presence here and so close in Gainesville.
Don't see how that would work, as UF is 70 miles away.
No? You can't see why a company, especially dealing with engineering or STEM fields, wouldn't see UF only being an easy ride away as a huge benefit for a recruiting pipeline? Silicon Valley seems to love Berkeley and they are an hour away at best not including bad traffic.
One school 70 miles away doesn't really compare to the 5+ schools in Boston or NYC.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 13, 2017, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 13, 2017, 01:51:03 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 13, 2017, 01:14:26 PM
With all the Amazon talk concerning quality sources of talent, in the future, Jax has to use UF as an advantage in attracting companies with its presence here and so close in Gainesville.
Don't see how that would work, as UF is 70 miles away.
No? You can't see why a company, especially dealing with engineering or STEM fields, wouldn't see UF only being an easy ride away as a huge benefit for a recruiting pipeline? Silicon Valley seems to love Berkeley and they are an hour away at best not including bad traffic.
I don't think a company would see a college in an isolated town 70 miles away as an easy ride from Jacksonville. Silicon Valley is (obviously) a different animal, but either way Berkeley is closer to Silicon Valley than UF is to Jacksonville.
Where's FSU on this list?
;D
Quote from: Tacachale on September 13, 2017, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 13, 2017, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 13, 2017, 01:51:03 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 13, 2017, 01:14:26 PM
With all the Amazon talk concerning quality sources of talent, in the future, Jax has to use UF as an advantage in attracting companies with its presence here and so close in Gainesville.
Don't see how that would work, as UF is 70 miles away.
No? You can't see why a company, especially dealing with engineering or STEM fields, wouldn't see UF only being an easy ride away as a huge benefit for a recruiting pipeline? Silicon Valley seems to love Berkeley and they are an hour away at best not including bad traffic.
I don't think a company would see a college in an isolated town 70 miles away as an easy ride from Jacksonville. Silicon Valley is (obviously) a different animal, but either way Berkeley is closer to Silicon Valley than UF is to Jacksonville.
UF is still a regional pull for talent. It's not like only Gainesville pulls students for their market. Long drive? Sure. But it is still considered a regional asset for talent.
Quote from: Jim on September 13, 2017, 03:05:11 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 13, 2017, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 13, 2017, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 13, 2017, 01:51:03 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 13, 2017, 01:14:26 PM
With all the Amazon talk concerning quality sources of talent, in the future, Jax has to use UF as an advantage in attracting companies with its presence here and so close in Gainesville.
Don't see how that would work, as UF is 70 miles away.
No? You can't see why a company, especially dealing with engineering or STEM fields, wouldn't see UF only being an easy ride away as a huge benefit for a recruiting pipeline? Silicon Valley seems to love Berkeley and they are an hour away at best not including bad traffic.
I don't think a company would see a college in an isolated town 70 miles away as an easy ride from Jacksonville. Silicon Valley is (obviously) a different animal, but either way Berkeley is closer to Silicon Valley than UF is to Jacksonville.
UF is still a regional pull for talent. It's not like only Gainesville pulls students for their market. Long drive? Sure. But it is still considered a regional asset for talent.
That's the case regardless of whether we try to frame UF. We also pull from FSU, UGA, and of course the local colleges.
Quote from: acme54321 on September 13, 2017, 03:02:39 PM
Where's FSU on this list?
;D
They've actually made an impressive rise, too. I believe from #42 public to #33.
http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2017/09/12/do-not-post-untilfsu-moves-up-no-33-among-u-s-news-and-world-reports-best-public-universities-rankin/656011001/
Other state university rankings include University of South Florida (68), University of Central Florida (90) and Florida International University (122).
For people who like to bitch about our State University System, we clearly have one of the best in the nation.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 13, 2017, 06:28:31 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on September 13, 2017, 03:02:39 PM
Where's FSU on this list?
;D
They've actually made an impressive rise, too. I believe from #42 public to #33.
http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2017/09/12/do-not-post-untilfsu-moves-up-no-33-among-u-s-news-and-world-reports-best-public-universities-rankin/656011001/
Other state university rankings include University of South Florida (68), University of Central Florida (90) and Florida International University (122).
For people who like to bitch about our State University System, we clearly have one of the best in the nation.
We have some impressive individual universities, and some successful imitators of the top schools, but a good system, we sadly do not have. Let alone one of the "best in the nation". Unless it's top 50 best.
UC-Antifa #1?? Conveniently during this anti free speech, SJW/far leftist era, and Berkeley being ground zero?? Sounds fishy...:-\ Once upon a time ago, they fought for free speech there... Look at number 3 (2nd ranked) UVA of course....
Quote from: I-10east on September 13, 2017, 11:30:35 PM
UC-Antifa #1?? Conveniently during this anti free speech, SJW/far leftist era, and Berkeley being ground zero?? Sounds fishy...:-\ Once upon a time ago, they fought for free speech there... Look at number 3 (2nd ranked) UVA of course....
C'mon do you really not know anything about UCal Berkeley? It's an exceptional university, regardless of your politics. I cannot believe anyone would actually quibble about it being ranked the #1 public university in the nation. It's the best school in one of the best (if not the best) public university systems.
^^^I'm well aware of UC-Berkeley's high status within the liberal intelligentsia echo chamber. Not too long ago, it was ranked #3 by a ranking. So truly with this liberal fascism often going on there (people trying to burn down the buildings, no free speech is welcome outside of SJW politics etc) there isn't pressure from the elites to give UC Berkeley and UVA a stellar ranking (even after these horrible debacles)? You can try to sugarcoat if you want, what happens at UC Berkeley is despicable anarchist behavior, and the left establishment are rewarding them for it.
^Berkeley is a top flight school regardless of the politics of its faculty and student base. What counts are the programs, research, education, etc. The problems the school has had with security don't reflect on the school - in fact it was apparently mostly non-students who came in and caused all the damage that resulted in the Milo Yiannopoulos event being cancelled (which is what I assume is being referenced here). Any school would have cancelled an event under those conditions. UF cancelled Richard Spencer's planned speech for the same reason, although there Spencer's followers are the ones starting/contributing to the violence. Berkeley itself condemned the violence and the silencing of the speaker.
Odd to hear someone talk about UVA as if it's some kind of liberal bastion. Its reputation is as one of the more conservative major schools in the country. The "horrible debacle" was, again, the result of outsiders causing disruption.
Quote from: I-10east on September 14, 2017, 10:13:02 AM
^^^I'm well aware of UC-Berkeley's high status within the liberal intelligentsia echo chamber. Not too long ago, it was ranked #3 by a ranking. So truly with this liberal fascism often going on there (people trying to burn down the buildings, no free speech is welcome outside of SJW politics etc) there isn't pressure from the elites to give UC Berkeley and UVA a stellar ranking (even after these horrible debacles)? You can try to sugarcoat if you want, what happens at UC Berkeley is despicable anarchist behavior, and the left establishment are rewarding them for it.
The university is still a great (and leading) university, regardless of how many wankers go to school there.
Quote from: I-10east on September 14, 2017, 10:13:02 AM
^^^I'm well aware of UC-Berkeley's high status within the liberal intelligentsia echo chamber. Not too long ago, it was ranked #3 by a ranking. So truly with this liberal fascism often going on there (people trying to burn down the buildings, no free speech is welcome outside of SJW politics etc) there isn't pressure from the elites to give UC Berkeley and UVA a stellar ranking (even after these horrible debacles)? You can try to sugarcoat if you want, what happens at UC Berkeley is despicable anarchist behavior, and the left establishment are rewarding them for it.
And, if it previously was ranked 3rd - which universities were ranked ahead of it?
No, Tacachale, you're quite wrong and outdated on this score, and on multiple levels. UVA is known as the most liberal campus in the Southeast, and controversial (within Virginia) because they have *so* many out-of-state students.
And yes, we in Florida clearly have one of the best systems in America -- how many other systems have four universities in the Public Top 100? Go ahead, count 'em up if you dare. Those four don't include FAMU, one of the top HBCU's and it doesn't include New College, one of the top Liberal Arts colleges in the nation. That's six of the 12 SUS schools, so far, Tacachale, and doesn't include UNF.
You think UNF is a bogus, bullshit university ???
As a low-tax state, it's a remarkable accomplishment -- particularly for UF.
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 06:15:22 AM
Quote from: I-10east on September 13, 2017, 11:30:35 PM
UC-Antifa #1?? Conveniently during this anti free speech, SJW/far leftist era, and Berkeley being ground zero?? Sounds fishy...:-\ Once upon a time ago, they fought for free speech there... Look at number 3 (2nd ranked) UVA of course....
C'mon do you really not know anything about UCal Berkeley? It's an exceptional university, regardless of your politics. I cannot believe anyone would actually quibble about it being ranked the #1 public university in the nation. It's the best school in one of the best (if not the best) public university systems.
California definitely has one of the best, if not the best systems. Especially considering they also have the California State system which covers the teaching universities. Combined, California has 33 public universities with a wide range of programs, environments, and strengths. This is possible because there's a good central organization that has the best interests of all the campuses and the state's needs in mind.
Other good university systems are North Carolina, Michigan, Virginia, and New York, for the same reasons. Some small states also do well, but it's easier to manage when you have that much smaller of an enrollment.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 14, 2017, 11:04:32 AM
And yes, we in Florida clearly have one of the best systems in America -- how many other systems have four universities in the Public Top 100? Go ahead, count 'em up if you dare.
California. New York. Ohio. Virginia. Texas. New Jersey.
I might've missed one or two. But you get the point.
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 11:00:49 AM
Quote from: I-10east on September 14, 2017, 10:13:02 AM
^^^I'm well aware of UC-Berkeley's high status within the liberal intelligentsia echo chamber. Not too long ago, it was ranked #3 by a ranking. So truly with this liberal fascism often going on there (people trying to burn down the buildings, no free speech is welcome outside of SJW politics etc) there isn't pressure from the elites to give UC Berkeley and UVA a stellar ranking (even after these horrible debacles)? You can try to sugarcoat if you want, what happens at UC Berkeley is despicable anarchist behavior, and the left establishment are rewarding them for it.
And, if it previously was ranked 3rd - which universities were ranked ahead of it?
Traditionally Berkeley, UVA, Michigan and UCLA have been sort of a tier 1 exchanging spots. UNC, William and Mary, and Georgia Tech have been tier 2. The UCs, Wisconsin, and Illinois were sort of a next tier. Washington, Florida, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, and Texas have been another tier. What we saw this year was UF jump ahead of Wisconsin and Illinois, and tie the UC's. I think UF's end game is to end up in the Georgia Tech, UNC, William and Mary group with getting consistently around the top 30 ranking. FSU wants to be a top 25 public and top 70 consistently overall. USF's goal is to jump to a top 40 public and top 100 overall.
I will say, Florida's public university system is probably a top tier system at this point anchored by UF but with solid contributions from FSU, USF, UCF, FIU, etc. The northeast has all of the high priced private schools but their public universities are sub par. California is by far the top system. Past California, I think you have a group that includes North Carolina, Michigan, Virginia, Florida, Georgia, Texas, New York and Pennsylvania. With the rise UF to elite status, but also the rise of FSU, USF and UCF, there is definitely an argument to be made for Florida having a top 5 public university system.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 14, 2017, 11:36:43 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 11:00:49 AM
Quote from: I-10east on September 14, 2017, 10:13:02 AM
^^^I'm well aware of UC-Berkeley's high status within the liberal intelligentsia echo chamber. Not too long ago, it was ranked #3 by a ranking. So truly with this liberal fascism often going on there (people trying to burn down the buildings, no free speech is welcome outside of SJW politics etc) there isn't pressure from the elites to give UC Berkeley and UVA a stellar ranking (even after these horrible debacles)? You can try to sugarcoat if you want, what happens at UC Berkeley is despicable anarchist behavior, and the left establishment are rewarding them for it.
And, if it previously was ranked 3rd - which universities were ranked ahead of it?
Traditionally Berkeley, UVA, Michigan and UCLA have been sort of a tier 1 exchanging spots. UNC, William and Mary, and Georgia Tech have been tier 2. The UCs, Wisconsin, and Illinois were sort of a next tier. Washington, Florida, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, and Texas have been another tier. What we saw this year was UF jump ahead of Wisconsin and Illinois, and tie the UC's. I think UF's end game is to end up in the Georgia Tech, UNC, William and Mary group with getting consistently around the top 30 ranking. FSU wants to be a top 25 public and top 70 consistently overall. USF's goal is to jump to a top 40 public and top 100 overall.
I will say, Florida's public university system is probably a top tier system at this point anchored by UF but with solid contributions from FSU, USF, UCF, FIU, etc. The northeast has all of the high priced private schools but their public universities are sub par. California is by far the top system. Past California, I think you have a group that includes North Carolina, Michigan, Virginia, Florida, Georgia, Texas, New York and Pennsylvania. With the rise UF to elite status, but also the rise of FSU, USF and UCF, there is definitely an argument to be made for Florida having a top 5 public university system.
I was just curious which universities were displaced by Berkeley. I-10 seems to imply that this ranking is some sort of liberal conspiracy.
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 11:40:06 AM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 14, 2017, 11:36:43 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 11:00:49 AM
Quote from: I-10east on September 14, 2017, 10:13:02 AM
^^^I'm well aware of UC-Berkeley's high status within the liberal intelligentsia echo chamber. Not too long ago, it was ranked #3 by a ranking. So truly with this liberal fascism often going on there (people trying to burn down the buildings, no free speech is welcome outside of SJW politics etc) there isn't pressure from the elites to give UC Berkeley and UVA a stellar ranking (even after these horrible debacles)? You can try to sugarcoat if you want, what happens at UC Berkeley is despicable anarchist behavior, and the left establishment are rewarding them for it.
And, if it previously was ranked 3rd - which universities were ranked ahead of it?
Traditionally Berkeley, UVA, Michigan and UCLA have been sort of a tier 1 exchanging spots. UNC, William and Mary, and Georgia Tech have been tier 2. The UCs, Wisconsin, and Illinois were sort of a next tier. Washington, Florida, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, and Texas have been another tier. What we saw this year was UF jump ahead of Wisconsin and Illinois, and tie the UC's. I think UF's end game is to end up in the Georgia Tech, UNC, William and Mary group with getting consistently around the top 30 ranking. FSU wants to be a top 25 public and top 70 consistently overall. USF's goal is to jump to a top 40 public and top 100 overall.
I will say, Florida's public university system is probably a top tier system at this point anchored by UF but with solid contributions from FSU, USF, UCF, FIU, etc. The northeast has all of the high priced private schools but their public universities are sub par. California is by far the top system. Past California, I think you have a group that includes North Carolina, Michigan, Virginia, Florida, Georgia, Texas, New York and Pennsylvania. With the rise UF to elite status, but also the rise of FSU, USF and UCF, there is definitely an argument to be made for Florida having a top 5 public university system.
I was just curious which universities were displaced by Berkeley. I-10 seems to imply that this ranking is some sort of liberal conspiracy.
It is not. Berkeley is just really hard to get into.
UVA and Michigan have each had a turn at #1. UCLA is tied for #1 for the first time this year I believe.
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 11:20:55 AM
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 14, 2017, 11:04:32 AM
And yes, we in Florida clearly have one of the best systems in America -- how many other systems have four universities in the Public Top 100? Go ahead, count 'em up if you dare.
California. New York. Ohio. Virginia. Texas. New Jersey.
I might've missed one or two. But you get the point.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 14, 2017, 11:04:32 AM
No, Tacachale, you're quite wrong and outdated on this score, and on multiple levels. UVA is known as the most liberal campus in the Southeast, and controversial (within Virginia) because they have *so* many out-of-state students.
And yes, we in Florida clearly have one of the best systems in America -- how many other systems have four universities in the Public Top 100? Go ahead, count 'em up if you dare. Those four don't include FAMU, one of the top HBCU's and it doesn't include New College, one of the top Liberal Arts colleges in the nation. That's six of the 12 SUS schools, so far, Tacachale, and doesn't include UNF.
You think UNF is a bogus, bullshit university ???
As a low-tax state, it's a remarkable accomplishment -- particularly for UF.
LOL, "most liberal campus in the Southeast" isn't saying much, even if it were true.
Look, I'm an employee of the State University System. I work for UNF, have two degrees for UNF, and my father is president of UNF. I've stated for years that I got a better education here than I got at UF. Obviously I don't think it's a bad university, or have some problem with education in Florida.
Florida has good individual universities. What it does not have is a good system to coordinate them all. The schools are left to their own devices, and in a lot of cases encouraged just to duplicate what UF is already doing well. For instance, the performance-based metrics encourage schools to pile on STEMM programs without regard for doing it well, and reward massive class sizes and duplicated programs. Meanwhile, the UNC system does stuff like this (https://www.engr.ncsu.edu/admissions/transfer-admissions/partnerships/) and this (http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2016/09/unc-and-nc-state-engineer-joint-degrees-for-undergrads), creating partnerships between UNC institutions.
Florida is the third largest state. It's not surprising that we have that number of universities on lists like this. Yet, we're still outpaced by smaller states, and most of our schools that
are on the list, don't do much different than UF or FSU are already excelling at. The reason for that is that the system encourages a "big box" model rather than, well, a system.
If we
did have a better system, we'd be second only to California and blowing everyone else away (since Texas's system is also dysfunctional, for its own reasons). We would have built on what we already had with UF and put the others on a more coordinated path, and probably founded several more than we have now. Unfortunately, we didn't do that.
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 11:40:06 AM
I was just curious which universities were displaced by Berkeley. I-10 seems to imply that this ranking is some sort of liberal conspiracy.
Look at this 2015 ranking here below, UC Berkeley is number 3. Oh no, the military and naval academies are 1 and 2; Can't have that, these warmongering arch-conservative type institutions can't be on the list!! I'm not arguing that UC Berkeley is a high ranking public university (even though I don't care for it) just the timing of these Antifa uprisings, and UC Berkeley and UVA being ranked very highly at the top two, that's all.
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/gkhh45md/best-public-colleges-201/#7b5918ab3040
The US liberal establishment have alot of power, particularly in the legacy news media (even legacy sports media now), Hollywood, and academia. They even push wedge issue movies to won awards, no matter if the GP likes the movie or not; As long as someone is a victim of some situation, there is money to be made.
Tacachale, I don't give a flying flip who your father is. However, I'm impressed with your feelings . . . okay?
I've acknowledged your feelings, okay?
But you're dancing around the point I made. I listed six of our 12 public universities that have some acknowledged distinction. You've now vouched for UNF. That makes seven attested for.
So, back to the Top 100 and specifics: how many states do you think have at least *four* public universities in the Top 90? That's how many institutions low-tax, smallest Southern state until the 1950 census Florida has in the Top 90. If it's less than 10, Tacachale, and I can assure it is, we objectively have one of the best university systems in the freaking nation by this very subjective list.
No matter how you might feel about that fact. And, yes, all university ranking lists are incredibly subjective. But it's a poor frog that won't praise its own pond. Ask ya daddy.
Quote from: I-10east on September 15, 2017, 11:01:33 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 11:40:06 AM
I was just curious which universities were displaced by Berkeley. I-10 seems to imply that this ranking is some sort of liberal conspiracy.
Look at this 2015 ranking here below, UC Berkeley is number 3. Oh no, the military and naval academies are 1 and 2; Can't have that, these warmongering arch-conservative type institutions can't be on the list!! I'm not arguing that UC Berkeley is a high ranking public university (even though I don't care for it) just the timing of these Antifa uprisings, and UC Berkeley and UVA being ranked very highly at the top two, that's all.
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/gkhh45md/best-public-colleges-201/#7b5918ab3040
The US liberal establishment have alot of power, particularly in the legacy news media (even legacy sports media now), Hollywood, and academia. They even push wedge issue movies to won awards, no matter if the GP likes the movie or not; As long as someone is a victim of some situation, there is money to be made.
Forbes is right of center and still has UC-Berkley at number 3 after 2 universities that require military admission and congressional nomination to attend. Your liberal media conspiracy theories for university rankings are not looking well grounded.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 15, 2017, 12:25:56 PM
Tacachale, I don't give a flying flip who your father is. However, I'm impressed with your feelings . . . okay?
I've acknowledged your feelings, okay?
But you're dancing around the point I made. I listed six of our 12 public universities that have some acknowledged distinction. You've now vouched for UNF. That makes seven attested for.
So, back to the Top 100 and specifics: how many states do you think have at least *four* public universities in the Top 90? That's how many institutions low-tax, smallest Southern state until the 1950 census Florida has in the Top 90. If it's less than 10, Tacachale, and I can assure it is, we objectively have one of the best university systems in the freaking nation by this very subjective list.
No matter how you might feel about that fact. And, yes, all university ranking lists are incredibly subjective. But it's a poor frog that won't praise its own pond. Ask ya daddy.
Nothing I stated are "feelings". They're facts based on years of experience working in the system that we're talking about. I know the distinction between facts and feelings is lost on some Trump supporters ;D
We're talking past each other. When you're talking about Florida's university system, you're talking about the collection of universities that Florida has. Some of those are indeed excellent. Others excel in their niches, and still others have excellent programs. I and probably most people would agree based on that sense of the "system".
What I'm talking about is the system as an organization. This is what's lacking. Our system doesn't have much in the way of centralized decision making or structure, there's too little vision, and it's all too subject to politics. If it were stronger, our universities would be even better than they are, there'd be less duplication and infighting, and more development of individual strengths. This is the area I find disappointing. Our population and large student body disguises the fact that we could be a lot better off than we are.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 15, 2017, 12:25:56 PM
So, back to the Top 100 and specifics: how many states do you think have at least *four* public universities in the Top 90?
You know the list provided in the original post goes through the top 100, right? If you'd just take a little time and use a little effort, you can answer your own question.
Count of Schools in the top 90 by State:
California-10
Virginia- 5
New York- 5
Florida- 4
Ohio- 4
New Jersey- 4
How do you
FEEL about that, tough guy?
Edit: If you go through the whole top 100, New Jersey goes to 5 schools and Texas joins Florida at 4....
I believe Ohio has a much more "organized system". The old Board of Reagents (now Dept. of Higher Education) keeps a strong rein on the group of 14 universities. For instance Ohio State is the main school so to speak with medical, dental, pharmacy schools, law school, specialized engineering, huge laboratories etc. All the things you can truly support with 50,000 plus students on one campus. They are the research school for Ohio. Other schools do not have competing programs. Resources are applied appropriately.
That is why Miami of Ohio is always ranked very high for teaching quality. Small undergrad enrollment, small classes, specialty programs. I know as I went there for my undergraduate degree.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 15, 2017, 12:25:56 PM
Tacachale, I don't give a flying flip who your father is. However, I'm impressed with your feelings . . . okay?
I've acknowledged your feelings, okay?
But you're dancing around the point I made. I listed six of our 12 public universities that have some acknowledged distinction. You've now vouched for UNF. That makes seven attested for.
So, back to the Top 100 and specifics: how many states do you think have at least *four* public universities in the Top 90? That's how many institutions low-tax, smallest Southern state until the 1950 census Florida has in the Top 90. If it's less than 10, Tacachale, and I can assure it is, we objectively have one of the best university systems in the freaking nation by this very subjective list.
No matter how you might feel about that fact. And, yes, all university ranking lists are incredibly subjective. But it's a poor frog that won't praise its own pond. Ask ya daddy.
You guys are clearly using different metrics. Your approach is to say the system is good because four of the universities in the Top 100 ranking are from the Florida system. Tachachale is saying that four universiities are good - but that doesn't reflect on the quality of the actual system. He is saying that there are attributes of successful state university systems that Florida's lacks.
Given Tachachale's experience, I would defer to him on this one. I figure he knows what he's talking about. And given his job and family connections, he'd have more reason to sugar-coat this sort of thing than critique it. Just sayin...
Tachachale's point is correct. The system here sucks. The way the money is allocated is not efficient. UNF continually gets shafted and it is surprising that there isn't more outrage about it around Jax considering the benefits UNF provides to the city.
Quote from: remc86007 on September 17, 2017, 07:18:05 PM
Tachachale's point is correct. The system here sucks. The way the money is allocated is not efficient. UNF continually gets shafted and it is surprising that there isn't more outrage about it around Jax considering the benefits UNF provides to the city.
The way money is done is not efficient but it has led to some interesting innovations and healthy competition as well by schools that has helped elevate them such as USF and UCF. In all honesty, if the system were run like the UNC System, UNF would still get no money because it would be focusing strictly on undergraduate education, which it basically does now. UNC and NC State take most of the money and the other schools fight to find a niche that is usually provided to them by their Board of Regents.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 19, 2017, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on September 17, 2017, 07:18:05 PM
Tachachale's point is correct. The system here sucks. The way the money is allocated is not efficient. UNF continually gets shafted and it is surprising that there isn't more outrage about it around Jax considering the benefits UNF provides to the city.
The way money is done is not efficient but it has led to some interesting innovations and healthy competition as well by schools that has helped elevate them such as USF and UCF. In all honesty, if the system were run like the UNC System, UNF would still get no money because it would be focusing strictly on undergraduate education, which it basically does now. UNC and NC State take most of the money and the other schools fight to find a niche that is usually provided to them by their Board of Regents.
Not really accurate. For one thing, state funding has been cut year after year in Florida, which just puts more burden on the students, or results in cuts at the schools. UNF is one of the few that hasn't had to cut programs or staff, but our tuition has had to go up substantially as it has at every school.
Then there's the funding tied to the "performance-based" metrics, which are arbitrary and pretty inscrutable, and detrimental to the system. No innovation has come from the "healthy competition" as you put it, as there's no credit for doing anything differently than what's dictated by the metrics. As a result, the competition that does arise is in the schools doing whatever the more successful schools already do. As a result, they're incentivized to pile on STEMM programs, cut back other programs, and increase class sizes to reduce per-student costs. There's no comparison to peers outside the state. It's created a system of mostly very large schools that copy each other.
In North Carolina, the schools are funded according to their niches. They look outside the state for their comparisons rather than making all the schools duplicate what UNC Chapel Hill already excels at. They're probably too top heavy with the flagship, but at least the funding isn't arbitrary.
Fortunately, it sounds like Florida's Board of Governors is finally starting to listen and plans on getting rid of the condition that the bottom 3 schools get no extra funding, and will also award points for how schools measure up to out-of-state peers. That's something that'll lead to some innovation, as they'll have a reason to look at more successful university systems, without fear of punishment for not adopting the "get real big and have every degree" model.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 19, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 19, 2017, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on September 17, 2017, 07:18:05 PM
Tachachale's point is correct. The system here sucks. The way the money is allocated is not efficient. UNF continually gets shafted and it is surprising that there isn't more outrage about it around Jax considering the benefits UNF provides to the city.
The way money is done is not efficient but it has led to some interesting innovations and healthy competition as well by schools that has helped elevate them such as USF and UCF. In all honesty, if the system were run like the UNC System, UNF would still get no money because it would be focusing strictly on undergraduate education, which it basically does now. UNC and NC State take most of the money and the other schools fight to find a niche that is usually provided to them by their Board of Regents.
Not really accurate. For one thing, state funding has been cut year after year in Florida, which just puts more burden on the students, or results in cuts at the schools. UNF is one of the few that hasn't had to cut programs or staff, but our tuition has had to go up substantially as it has at every school.
Then there's the funding tied to the "performance-based" metrics, which are arbitrary and pretty inscrutable, and detrimental to the system. No innovation has come from the "healthy competition" as you put it, as there's no credit for doing anything differently than what's dictated by the metrics. As a result, the competition that does arise is in the schools doing whatever the more successful schools already do. As a result, they're incentivized to pile on STEMM programs, cut back other programs, and increase class sizes to reduce classes. There's no comparison to peers outside the state. It's created a system of mostly very large schools that copy each other.
In North Carolina, the schools are funded according to their niches. They look outside the state for their comparisons rather than making all the schools duplicate what UNC Chapel Hill already excels at. They're probably too top heavy with the flagship, but at least the funding isn't arbitrary.
Fortunately, it sounds like Florida's Board of Governors is finally starting to listen and plans on getting rid of the condition that the bottom 3 schools get no extra funding, and will also award points for how schools measure up to out-of-state peers. That's something that'll lead to some innovation, as they'll have a reason to look at more successful university systems, without fear of punishment for not adopting the "get real big and have every degree" model.
As the state's population continues to grow, schools like UNF, FGCU, and UWF may have to grow their student populations since UF, FSU, UCF (I think lol), USF, and FIU are at capacity in any reasonable model. Growing the population at UNF would be good for Jacksonville if it could keep similar standards. We will see in the near future.
I do agree though that the funding system is certainly inefficient and politics based.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 20, 2017, 02:48:56 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 19, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 19, 2017, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on September 17, 2017, 07:18:05 PM
Tachachale's point is correct. The system here sucks. The way the money is allocated is not efficient. UNF continually gets shafted and it is surprising that there isn't more outrage about it around Jax considering the benefits UNF provides to the city.
The way money is done is not efficient but it has led to some interesting innovations and healthy competition as well by schools that has helped elevate them such as USF and UCF. In all honesty, if the system were run like the UNC System, UNF would still get no money because it would be focusing strictly on undergraduate education, which it basically does now. UNC and NC State take most of the money and the other schools fight to find a niche that is usually provided to them by their Board of Regents.
Not really accurate. For one thing, state funding has been cut year after year in Florida, which just puts more burden on the students, or results in cuts at the schools. UNF is one of the few that hasn't had to cut programs or staff, but our tuition has had to go up substantially as it has at every school.
Then there's the funding tied to the "performance-based" metrics, which are arbitrary and pretty inscrutable, and detrimental to the system. No innovation has come from the "healthy competition" as you put it, as there's no credit for doing anything differently than what's dictated by the metrics. As a result, the competition that does arise is in the schools doing whatever the more successful schools already do. As a result, they're incentivized to pile on STEMM programs, cut back other programs, and increase class sizes to reduce classes. There's no comparison to peers outside the state. It's created a system of mostly very large schools that copy each other.
In North Carolina, the schools are funded according to their niches. They look outside the state for their comparisons rather than making all the schools duplicate what UNC Chapel Hill already excels at. They're probably too top heavy with the flagship, but at least the funding isn't arbitrary.
Fortunately, it sounds like Florida's Board of Governors is finally starting to listen and plans on getting rid of the condition that the bottom 3 schools get no extra funding, and will also award points for how schools measure up to out-of-state peers. That's something that'll lead to some innovation, as they'll have a reason to look at more successful university systems, without fear of punishment for not adopting the "get real big and have every degree" model.
As the state's population continues to grow, schools like UNF, FGCU, and UWF may have to grow their student populations since UF, FSU, UCF (I think lol), USF, and FIU are at capacity in any reasonable model. Growing the population at UNF would be good for Jacksonville if it could keep similar standards. We will see in the near future.
I do agree though that the funding system is certainly inefficient and politics based.
UNF is planned to grow a bit but never reach the size UCF et al are at. If we were smart, we'd start planning additional universities to serve growth areas rather than just allowing all the schools to just balloon. Some of the schools have already founded branch campuses to reach more areas. My worry is that the system will just fragment into a "UF System", "USF System", etc. with even less coordination than there is now. That's what happened in Texas, where there's no coordination between the different university systems (University of Texas, A&M, North Texas, Texas State, and Texas Tech), and they're starting to fall behind their peers. There was a time that UT Austin was considered a "public ivy" but it's falling farther and farther behind as the state puts more resources into the other branches.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 20, 2017, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 20, 2017, 02:48:56 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 19, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 19, 2017, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on September 17, 2017, 07:18:05 PM
Tachachale's point is correct. The system here sucks. The way the money is allocated is not efficient. UNF continually gets shafted and it is surprising that there isn't more outrage about it around Jax considering the benefits UNF provides to the city.
The way money is done is not efficient but it has led to some interesting innovations and healthy competition as well by schools that has helped elevate them such as USF and UCF. In all honesty, if the system were run like the UNC System, UNF would still get no money because it would be focusing strictly on undergraduate education, which it basically does now. UNC and NC State take most of the money and the other schools fight to find a niche that is usually provided to them by their Board of Regents.
Not really accurate. For one thing, state funding has been cut year after year in Florida, which just puts more burden on the students, or results in cuts at the schools. UNF is one of the few that hasn't had to cut programs or staff, but our tuition has had to go up substantially as it has at every school.
Then there's the funding tied to the "performance-based" metrics, which are arbitrary and pretty inscrutable, and detrimental to the system. No innovation has come from the "healthy competition" as you put it, as there's no credit for doing anything differently than what's dictated by the metrics. As a result, the competition that does arise is in the schools doing whatever the more successful schools already do. As a result, they're incentivized to pile on STEMM programs, cut back other programs, and increase class sizes to reduce classes. There's no comparison to peers outside the state. It's created a system of mostly very large schools that copy each other.
In North Carolina, the schools are funded according to their niches. They look outside the state for their comparisons rather than making all the schools duplicate what UNC Chapel Hill already excels at. They're probably too top heavy with the flagship, but at least the funding isn't arbitrary.
Fortunately, it sounds like Florida's Board of Governors is finally starting to listen and plans on getting rid of the condition that the bottom 3 schools get no extra funding, and will also award points for how schools measure up to out-of-state peers. That's something that'll lead to some innovation, as they'll have a reason to look at more successful university systems, without fear of punishment for not adopting the "get real big and have every degree" model.
As the state's population continues to grow, schools like UNF, FGCU, and UWF may have to grow their student populations since UF, FSU, UCF (I think lol), USF, and FIU are at capacity in any reasonable model. Growing the population at UNF would be good for Jacksonville if it could keep similar standards. We will see in the near future.
I do agree though that the funding system is certainly inefficient and politics based.
UNF is planned to grow a bit but never reach the size UCF et al are at. If we were smart, we'd start planning additional universities to serve growth areas rather than just allowing all the schools to just balloon. Some of the schools have already founded branch campuses to reach more areas. My worry is that the system will just fragment into a "UF System", "USF System", etc. with even less coordination than there is now. That's what happened in Texas, where there's no coordination between the different university systems (University of Texas, A&M, North Texas, Texas State, and Texas Tech), and they're starting to fall behind their peers. There was a time that UT Austin was considered a "public ivy" but it's falling farther and farther behind as the state puts more resources into the other branches.
Well, no school should ever have 60,000 undergrads lol. 30,000 is a solid and manageable number long term for UNF that will spur additional development that will be sustainable and really drive that area into the future.
Quote from: I-10east on September 15, 2017, 11:01:33 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 14, 2017, 11:40:06 AM
I was just curious which universities were displaced by Berkeley. I-10 seems to imply that this ranking is some sort of liberal conspiracy.
Look at this 2015 ranking here below, UC Berkeley is number 3. Oh no, the military and naval academies are 1 and 2; Can't have that, these warmongering arch-conservative type institutions can't be on the list!! I'm not arguing that UC Berkeley is a high ranking public university (even though I don't care for it) just the timing of these Antifa uprisings, and UC Berkeley and UVA being ranked very highly at the top two, that's all.
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/gkhh45md/best-public-colleges-201/#7b5918ab3040
The US liberal establishment have alot of power, particularly in the legacy news media (even legacy sports media now), Hollywood, and academia. They even push wedge issue movies to won awards, no matter if the GP likes the movie or not; As long as someone is a victim of some situation, there is money to be made.
West Point, The Naval Academy, and the Air Force Academy are ranked #1, #2, and #3 in USNWR's top public liberal arts college rankings. The reason they're not in the research university rankings is because it wouldn't be comparing apples to apples -- the service academies aren't typical research universities with extensive post-grad programs.
But I bet it feels good to rant about liberal bias, so please continue to do so if it helps let off steam.