I was going to say Jax would be a great contender for this until I read the below specs. Hurt by the lack of an international airport (though that might be quick to fix with this "get") but, more of an issue, is the lack of decent mass transit. HRO would also be an issue if it gets reversed. This type of opportunity is more and more the future of juicy HQ opportunities with high paying jobs and Jax needs to step up to the next level with mass transit, acceptance of all peoples and advancing the urban core's development. Some of this takes years to implement so we need to get going. The world is moving at a faster pace than ever before. In the present example, AMZN is giving cities only about 30 days to submit proposals with an announcement of the winner early next year. That's very fast for a $5 billion decision but is also typical of the pace AMZN is setting for the rest of the world.
Quote
It didn't hint about where it might land, but its requirements could rule out some places: It wants to be near a metropolitan area with more than a million people; be able to attract top technical talent; be within 45 minutes of an international airport; have direct access to mass transit; and wants to be able to expand that headquarters to as much as 8 million square feet in the next decade. That's about the same size as its current home in Seattle. Co-headquarters, though, often come about as a result of mergers.
Being discussed on 2 parallel threads. We should at least try. Amazon could pretty much buy every vacant building downtown (over 50,000 sf) and completely revitalize Jax.
They could start with 233 West Duval, old JEA building, Vacant and 162,000 sf.
50,000 HQ Jobs at an average pay of $100,000. Jax should definitely bid on this project, even if just for the learning experience. The city has massive deficiencies that make the chances of success slim, but you might as well get in the game.
Toronto, Chicago, Austin, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Boston (courtesy Geekwire)
Does anybody else wonder if seismic concerns are a factor in this?
QuoteA highly educated labor pool is critical and a strong university system is required.
Travel time to an international airport with daily direct flights to Seattle, New York, San Francisco/Bay Area, and Washington, D.C. is also an important consideration.
Jacksonville doesn't have a major university or international airport.
Geekwire put Atlanta 6th on list, but with Hartsfield Jackson, Technology Square and Georgia Tech, i think they have a shot at it,
depending on tsunami of state incentives.
Austin sticks out the most to me. Growing city, already HQ to Whole Foods, established tech hub, research university, Int'l airport with actual international service.
Atlanta also sticks out for obvious reasons as does Charlotte, with its busy int'l airport and its proximity to the research triangle.
I would put Boston and the DC metro in the mix. Unfortunately, though it would be amazing, Jacksonville would be a long shot, given the requirements.
If Amazon came here the airport would have multiple International routes within a year.
We have 3 impressive universities within 3 hours, UF, FSU and UNF. We are wide open in terms of what could happen. They have to try!
News from a few other interested cities:
Dan Gilbert confirms he's trying to get Amazon to build its second HQ in Detroit
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/dan-gilbert-confirms-apos-trying-011540788.html
Atlanta likely in consideration for Amazon's $5 billion "HQ2" (also mentions Miami/Brightline and Tampa/DT waterfront development as contenders)
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2017/09/07/atlanta-likely-in-consideration-for-amazons-5.html
Charlotte wants to be home to Amazon's $5 billion second headquarters
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/whats-in-store/article171844127.html
Few Cities Could Accommodate Amazon's New Headquarters (claims Toronto, Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Dallas or Denver)
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-07/few-cities-could-accommodate-amazon-s-new-headquarters
If Amazon wants a blank palette just waiting to be turned into a masterpiece Jax is the perfect place but unfortunately we lack what they are looking for
Quote from: MusicMan on September 07, 2017, 12:45:39 PM
Amazon could pretty much buy every vacant building downtown (over 50,000 sf) and completely revitalize Jax.
They could start with 233 West Duval, old JEA building, Vacant and 162,000 sf.
Quote from: MusicMan on September 07, 2017, 08:43:55 PM
If Amazon came here the airport would have multiple International routes within a year.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You really don't get it. Amazon isn't trying to take away from their core business to try to save a city...
Yeah, Amazon doesn't give a damn about saving a second tier city like Jax. They're going to go to the place that ponies up the most amount of tax incentives and that also meets their business needs. Based off their criteria, I'm not sure any of Florida's cities will have a decent chance.
Detroit?
I don't think they look at "saving a second tier city" at all. They would flat out own it. And the upside here beats any place I've seen.
But if they want an "established" city then I agree, we are a long shot.
Remind me why Fidelity brought their HQ here?
P.S. Just noticed there is an additional 56,000 sf available at 100 North Laura Street.
50,000 employees? That is ALL of downtown, Southbank and Brooklyn combined. They also need ~8 million sf. If, IF, it were to happen here, downtown is out. You need 8 Everbank Towers to match that. Unless Healthy Town drops the old JEA location, an urban option here doesn't exist and this campus will not go anywhere but urban.
And now that Wisconsin is giving Foxconn $3 billion for 13,000 jobs, Jax and FL do not stand a chance to compete with those kind of market offers.
They are currently housed in 33 buildings in the Seattle campus.
I realize it's a long shot but in the 21st Century anything is possible.
Not to change the subject, but why is there never discussion about establishing a Flex N Gate facility in Duval County?
Quote from: billy on September 08, 2017, 11:49:53 AM
Not to change the subject, but why is there never discussion about establishing a Flex N Gate facility in Duval County?
Since they make car bumpers, I would imagine that any manufacturing or distribution center would want to be located close to automotive manufacturing plants- thus they would want to be in upper Midwest or Alabama/Mississippi and maybe a few spots in Texas.
What about their headquarters? Also, assembly plants have been opening across the south in states like South Carolina and Georgia too. It would be more realistic for Jax to land a Flex N Gate plant than Amazon's HQ2.
Where Amazon would place it's second world headquarters would make an excellent poll question if one were so inclined but if I were to put money on it, the "best" choice given what they say they're looking for is Dallas/Ft. Worth for the following reasons:
* Highly-educated workforce more akin to Seattle than say Houston
* Established local AND commuter rail that can be expanded upon
* No state income taxes and favorable business climate (which Amazon says they don't give a shit about but I'm sure the talent they are trying to attract there will)
* Non-stop flight offerings not just across the Atlantic and Pacific but also very easy access to Mexico, Central America, and South America
Other logical options would be Chicago, Atlanta, Austin, Charlotte, Nashville. My dark horse candidate: Baltimore.
^Nashville? I'd say Jax has a better than even shot against Nashville.
Quote from: remc86007 on September 10, 2017, 12:53:20 PM
^Nashville? I'd say Jax has a better than even shot against Nashville.
Why would you think Jax is above a city like Nashville?
Neither one would be considered strong candidates.
Quote from: remc86007 on September 10, 2017, 12:53:20 PM
^Nashville? I'd say Jax has a better than even shot against Nashville.
For starters, they have a significantly higher educated workforce overall than the Jacksonville region. They also have more HQ's of big-time companies than Jax and commuter rail. Their airport already offers flights across the Atlantic so they would be more capable of handling an increase in international flights. The only thing Jax has them beat is commercial square footage costs but with the need for building much more Class A office space for Amazon that could negate that advantage.
The NY Times wrote a piece analyzing all metros in the US with 1million-plus people to determine what might be the best city for Amazon based on its search criteria. Jax didn't make it past the first screen, which required cities with a strong record of job growth over the past 10 years or so. After many more rounds, the article finally concluded on Denver.
There have been so many articles analyzing every aspect of this, it's amazing how much this has captured our country's fascination.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 10, 2017, 04:27:23 PM
There have been so many articles analyzing every aspect of this, it's amazing how much this has captured our country's fascination.
And just like Tesla they know how to keep their name in the news.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 10, 2017, 03:20:03 PM
The NY Times wrote a piece analyzing all metros in the US with 1million-plus people to determine what might be the best city for Amazon based on its search criteria. Jax didn't make it past the first screen, which required cities with a strong record of job growth over the past 10 years or so. After many more rounds, the article finally concluded on Denver.
Atlanta and Denver would be my best guesses. Both have the talent, density, lower cost of living/purchase and public transit needed by such an endeavor
So basically it's anyone's guess. IMO the supposed 'lofty criteria to get a company etc' is highly overanalyzed. They said that Jax wasn't supposed to have a NFL team, Super Bowl, certain companies etc etc etc... I'm not saying that Jax is gonna get this HQ, but often it comes down to some big wigs meeting discreetly; something is telling me that some upstart light rail in some city somewhere is the last thing on their minds.
Quote from: JHAT76 on September 10, 2017, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: remc86007 on September 10, 2017, 12:53:20 PM
^Nashville? I'd say Jax has a better than even shot against Nashville.
Why would you think Jax is above a city like Nashville?
Cheaper land and existing base of people with logistics experience. Like Lake said, neither is a good candidate.
Quote from: I-10east on September 10, 2017, 11:52:06 PM
So basically it's anyone's guess. IMO the supposed 'lofty criteria to get a company etc' is highly overanalyzed. They said that Jax wasn't supposed to have a NFL team, Super Bowl, certain companies etc etc etc... I'm not saying that Jax is gonna get this HQ, but often it comes down to some big wigs meeting discreetly; something is telling me that some upstart light rail in some city somewhere is the last thing on their minds.
It will come down to what cities meet their criteria while also offering them the highest amount of incentives.
QuoteYour City Will Lose the Contest for Amazon's New HQ
No town truly fulfills the company's demanding wish list.
For decades, American cities and states have been competing to dismantle the high-tax postwar social model to win increasingly mobile jobs from their peers. This practice leaves the losers smarting from a diminished sense of self—hello, Hartford, Connecticut—while the winner loads the tax burden of its new prize pig onto existing citizens and businesses. It rewards corporations for being flighty, faithless partners to cities and punishes small and local businesses that cannot make credible threats to secure their own incentive packages.
The news that Amazon needs a second headquarters, announced on Thursday, will set off a competition like we have never seen for mayors and governors to pimp out their cities to the Seattle-based supercompany.
It is a one-of-a-kind, six-week sweepstakes, with a $5 billion HQ up for grabs. Nothing like this has ever happened before. At 8.1 million square feet, constituting nearly 20 percent of Seattle's Class A office space, Amazon's Seattle campus simply has no parallels in U.S. cities. The next biggest single urban corporate presence is Citi in New York, with 3.7 million square feet; the next biggest by percentage is Nationwide in Columbus, Ohio, which occupies 16 percent of the city's office space.
In short, Amazon's Seattle HQ is an outlier any way you slice it, and it's about to build the same thing again.
Full Article: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/metropolis/2017/09/your_city_will_lose_the_contest_for_amazon_s_new_hq.html
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/technology/amazon-cities/index.html (http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/technology/amazon-cities/index.html)
Realistically, it will be Austin, Dallas, Atlanta, Boston, DC and Toronto in tier 1.
To me, there are only three regions in play: DC, Atlanta, or Boston.
They aren't going to Canada (think about the political times, people, and consider the optics), they aren't going to the Central time zone (they're already on the West Coast), and owning the Washington Post puts Baltimore - DC in play when Atlanta or Boston might be the clear leaders.
That said, I think they're going to give Atlanta a chance to prove they *shouldn't* open HQ2 up there. If Atlanta screws up, Baltimore-Washington.
But if I'm Jacksonville, I'm trying to put together a strong presentation that makes them re-think their stated criteria. We have *much* to sell. Try to convince them less is more, flexibility overcomes apparent inadequacies, and insist a logistics giant should want to be not just *the* logistics giant in HQ2 . . . but *the* corporate giant, too.
Charge hard, Mayor Curry, charge hard.
Someone will be willing to get fleeced big time. It's not every day that a proposal to add 50,000 high paying jobs comes along. This isn't your average one-trick pony situation. Cities will easily offer up their soul and future to Bezos.
I'll say this, if they do provide finalists, say a top 16 cities similar to the Olympics (lol), it would be good press to get on that list.
Either Charlotte or Raleigh-Durham may also be in the mix with the quality of the research universities there. I do think Tampa, Orlando, and Miami should also be thrown into the mix. I will say, ATL, Austin or Dallas, Boston, and DC/Baltimore suburbs in Maryland make the most sense. I think the big worry for Boston or DC would be the cost of living just being out of this world with Amazon entering the market. That may be a reason to go to an ATL, Dallas, or another mid-range metro.
Tampa and Miami just got taken off the list by Irma.
Bloomberg article revealed insiders stating that executives are pushing hard for Boston. In fact there was a move to explore a Boston expansion a year or two ago. The article also stated that among midlevel associates, the consensus is for a cheaper, more suburban, probably southern destination like Austin. To many of these employees, Seattle is too expensive, too dreary, and perhaps too busy, and a relo to Boston would be more of the same.
I for one believe that they are sincere in considering all options, and I don't think any one city has more than a 5:1 shot at this point. Will come down to incentives, site location, and how those two primary factors fit into a larger overall fit.
If I had to put money on it, it will be someplace like Austin, Dallas, Atlanta or Charlotte. Cheap, meets most of their general criteria, quality-of-life differs from Seattle, and comes with the ability to toss out crazy incentive packages Amazon's way.
^^
I could see Atlanta getting it xomewhat by default but either of those other cities by out-bidding the competition. Charlotte could use it to narrow the gap between it and Atlanta, something it has always wanted to do.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 13, 2017, 04:34:18 PM
If I had to put money on it, it will be someplace like Austin, Dallas, Atlanta or Charlotte. Cheap, meets most of their general criteria, quality-of-life differs from Seattle, and comes with the ability to toss out crazy incentive packages Amazon's way.
Austin and ATL as the favorites. I do think Raleigh-Durham with the quality of research university talent in the general area (Duke, UNC, NC State and Wake Forest). This may be enough for the folks really pushing for Boston for the Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, etc., easy talent connection. They could own the area, the area's talent, and also have a pretty vibrant start up community around them. They could be right at the door step of the State Capitol. Raleigh is also two hours from the beach, and about three to the mountains.
I doubt anywhere in Texas if they want an East Coast center. It'll go to whichever city bends over the farthest with incentives.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 14, 2017, 10:44:27 AM
I doubt anywhere in Texas if they want an East Coast center. It'll go to whichever city bends over the farthest with incentives.
It could be a southern and more centralized center. They didn't really specify.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 13, 2017, 09:02:05 AM
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 12, 2017, 05:26:59 PM
But if I'm Jacksonville, I'm trying to put together a strong presentation that makes them re-think their stated criteria. We have *much* to sell. Try to convince them less is more, flexibility overcomes apparent inadequacies, and insist a logistics giant should want to be not just *the* logistics giant in HQ2 . . . but *the* corporate giant, too.
Charge hard, Mayor Curry, charge hard.
No. No. No. No. No x 100000000000. These greedy assholes aren't looking for us to "sell" them anything other than a huge tax break giveaway. No. No. No. No. No. Amazon can take their corporate welfare and warehouse exploitation jobs and get bent. They are counting on responses like the above, "Golly gee! THE Amazon wants to come here? Throw the house at them, who cares if we are getting fleeced?!? It's AMAZON."
I agree Murder_me_Rachel. I get so sick and tired of corporation asking for handouts from taxpayers. There was a time not so long ago that Corporations were a foundation of the community, now they are just another parasites. Cities have been handing out these incentives for a generation now and we are constantly told all the tax dollars will come rolling in on the back-end Well, here we are on the back-end and I don't see overflowing tax dollars rolling in. This strategy isn't working so why do we keep doing it?
It's parasitic for a corporation to publicly announce its future plans and allow municipalities and regions or states the opportunity to pitch the desirability of their locale for all of those potential jobs? Really? Parasitic?
That's crazy talk, man.
In the spirit of #InShadWeTrust, I say the Mayor gets together with Shad Khan, Peter Rummel, UNF, Mayo, JU, Flagler and . . . yes, UF & FSU, among others, and pitch an ambitious plan.
Engaging in such an audacious exercise, alone, could pay dividends for our area even if we don't win HQ2.
The Florida Crown: bold cities, beautiful beaches, and wonderful waterways.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 15, 2017, 11:26:40 AM
It's parasitic for a corporation to publicly announce its future plans and allow municipalities and regions or states the opportunity to pitch the desirability of their locale for all of those potential jobs? Really? Parasitic?
That's crazy talk, man.
In the spirit of #InShadWeTrust, I say the Mayor gets together with Shad Khan, Peter Rummel, UNF, Mayo, JU, Flagler and . . . yes, UF & FSU, among others, and pitch an ambitious plan.
Engaging in such an audacious exercise, alone, could pay dividends for our area even if we don't win HQ2.
The Florida Crown: bold cities, beautiful beaches, and wonderful waterways.
Wow. You really don't understand the issue do you.
The issue is when they get tax reductions, free money. That is what makes it parasitic. The money they don't pay has to be paid by everyone else. Plus other businesses including their competition didn't get the same deal.
Level the playing field and treat everyone the same, and no one would have a problem with it.
Quote from: vicupstate on September 15, 2017, 12:55:57 PM
Level the playing field and treat everyone the same, and no one would have a problem with it.
Capitalists doesn't want anything to do with that.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/676994001 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/676994001)
This just in. Detroit may or may not get these headquarters. I would really like to see Jacksonville get these Amazon hq's, it would be great for the local economy & create some new employment opportunities (and it's not like there is a shortage of available buildings, land mass, and people needing a good steady job here) But if I had to choose a secondary city that needs this, it'd b Detroit :)
Quote from: jaxrox on September 18, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/676994001 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/676994001)
This just in. Detroit may or may not get these headquarters. I would really like to see Jacksonville get these Amazon hq's, it would be great for the local economy & create some new employment opportunities (and it's not like there is a shortage of available buildings, land mass, and people needing a good steady job here) But if I had to choose a secondary city that needs this, it'd b Detroit :)
But there is an extreme shortage of buildings and qualified people (50,000 in business and technology) here.
As I mentioned before. They are looking for more than 8 million sqft of space. That is practically ALL of the central business district. Even if we tabulated all of the empty class A office space in the entire county, it may not equal that much. You are looking at the equivalent of 8 empty Everbank (formerly AT&T) towers needed in downtown.
As for people, we might have 5,000 people needing entry level warehouse jobs (the recent Amazon distribution centers) but we certainly don't have 50,000 clamoring for tech and management positions.
Sad facts. I wish we were a contender. If we could land such a deal without dropping our tax dollar shorts, it would be a massive boon for the city. But we are not ready to provide what they need. And even if we were, we would still be putting every Jacksonville resident egg into the Amazon basket and counting them chickens long before they hatch.
Quote from: jaxrox on September 18, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/676994001 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/676994001)
This just in. Detroit may or may not get these headquarters. I would really like to see Jacksonville get these Amazon hq's, it would be great for the local economy & create some new employment opportunities (and it's not like there is a shortage of available buildings, land mass, and people needing a good steady job here) But if I had to choose a secondary city that needs this, it'd b Detroit :)
I can't imagine them going to Detroit because of the brutal winters. If you are an Amazon recruit, where will you try to go, Seattle or Detroit? They will end up in the sunny South or where the talent base is too much to pass up like Boston.
If they offer enough incentives, i could see Detroit, but it would still be a surprise. It would probably take a property tax free campus and no state income taxes for 50 years, and maybe even building the campus itself.
Although it would have higher chances than a metro 1/4 its size like Jax landing the HQ, I doubt Amazon ends up in Detroit. However, it won't be because of its brutal winters. Unless Gilbert and his friends offer an insane incentives package on behalf of the city, I doubt they'll be able to effectively compete head-to-head with several of the larger Sunbelt and East Coast regions. It's cool to see them trying. The core of that city isn't as half bad as the negative national press it tends to get.
Can anyone say whether COJ has even submitted a bid for this RFP?
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/opinion/amazon-second-headquarters.html
Quote from: thelakelander on September 19, 2017, 11:13:56 AM
Although it would have higher chances than a metro 1/4 its size like Jax landing the HQ, I doubt Amazon ends up in Detroit. However, it won't be because of its brutal winters. Unless Gilbert and his friends offer an insane incentives package on behalf of the city, I doubt they'll be able to effectively compete head-to-head with several of the larger Sunbelt and East Coast regions. It's cool to see them trying. The core of that city isn't as half bad as the negative national press it tends to get.
I do. Could you imagine getting placed in Detroit rather than Seattle? Brutal. Taking incentives out of the picture, going to Atlanta, Texas, North Carolina or Florida is much more desirable with similar sized metros that aren't shrinking like Tampa, Orlando, or Miami.
http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-headquarters-cities-in-a-bidding-war-2017-9/#oak-brook-illinois-49
Guess who isn't on this list.......????
Quote from: MusicMan on September 19, 2017, 10:19:31 PM
Can anyone say whether COJ has even submitted a bid for this RFP?
I'm sure they haven't..it's been a week and a half. I'm sure no one has.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 20, 2017, 03:39:45 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-headquarters-cities-in-a-bidding-war-2017-9/#oak-brook-illinois-49
Guess who isn't on this list.......????
I've searched several times for any public comment from our city's major stakeholders. Still nothing. I can imagine Lenny Curry not making a peep in an attempt to either make a big splash out of this or eventually decide it's not worth it in an attempt to save face. It is hard to imagine them not even reaching out and doing some groundwork on this.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 20, 2017, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 19, 2017, 11:13:56 AM
Although it would have higher chances than a metro 1/4 its size like Jax landing the HQ, I doubt Amazon ends up in Detroit. However, it won't be because of its brutal winters. Unless Gilbert and his friends offer an insane incentives package on behalf of the city, I doubt they'll be able to effectively compete head-to-head with several of the larger Sunbelt and East Coast regions. It's cool to see them trying. The core of that city isn't as half bad as the negative national press it tends to get.
I do. Could you imagine getting placed in Detroit rather than Seattle? Brutal. Taking incentives out of the picture, going to Atlanta, Texas, North Carolina or Florida is much more desirable with similar sized metros that aren't shrinking like Tampa, Orlando, or Miami.
Many could make the same argument you're making against Detroit, against Jax. Instead of brutal winters you get brutal summers. Chicago has the same winters as Detroit. However, I can certainly see a situation where many would select Chicago over Seattle.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 20, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 20, 2017, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 19, 2017, 11:13:56 AM
Although it would have higher chances than a metro 1/4 its size like Jax landing the HQ, I doubt Amazon ends up in Detroit. However, it won't be because of its brutal winters. Unless Gilbert and his friends offer an insane incentives package on behalf of the city, I doubt they'll be able to effectively compete head-to-head with several of the larger Sunbelt and East Coast regions. It's cool to see them trying. The core of that city isn't as half bad as the negative national press it tends to get.
I do. Could you imagine getting placed in Detroit rather than Seattle? Brutal. Taking incentives out of the picture, going to Atlanta, Texas, North Carolina or Florida is much more desirable with similar sized metros that aren't shrinking like Tampa, Orlando, or Miami.
Many could make the same argument you're making against Detroit, against Jax. Instead of brutal winters you get brutal summers. Chicago has the same winters as Detroit. However, I can certainly see a situation where many would select Chicago over Seattle.
For sure, but which Top 50 metros are the slowest growing?
1. Cleveland: -1.04% growth
2. Pittsburgh: -.59% growth
3. Hartford: - 46% growth
4. Buffalo: -.24% growth
5. Detroit: .03% growth
6. Chicago: .55% growth
7. St. Louis: .69% growth
8. Milwaukee: 1.07% growth
Fastest Growing?
1. Austin 19.82% Growth
2. Raleigh: 15.25% Growth
3. Houston: 14.39% Growth
4. Orlando: 14.38% Growth
5. San Antonio: 13.40% Growth
6. Dallas: 12.56% Growth
7. Nashville 11%
8. Charlotte 11%
9. Phoenix 11%
10. Las Vegas 10.47%
Jacksonville comes in #13 I believe at 9.86%. One way or another, the whole air conditioning thing changed the game and cities like Chicago and Detroit, although large metros, are barely holding on to population while places like Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Orlando are booming. I think there might be a correlation with the cold weather. Of course, there are other factors, but it is a big one.
I'm not sure Sunbelt vs Rustbelt growth percentages right now have much to do with Amazon or weather. I know you cut your list off at 50 but if weather is a big correlation then why are places like Seattle (+10.44%), Boise (+12.14%), Fargo (+14.6%), Des Moines (+11.43%), Denver (+12.17%), Salt Lake City (+9.04%) growing at decent clips? Then there's booming Canadian metros like Calgary (+14.63%) and Edmonton (+13.93%). On the other hand, there's also a few Sunbelt metros like Memphis (+1.36%), Birmingham (+1.72%) that appear to be stagnant. Then some of slower growing metros were so dense, built-out and overcrowded at one point, they'll never end up on a fastest growing list, despite continuing to be vibrant places.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 20, 2017, 05:48:57 PM
Jacksonville comes in #13 I believe at 9.86%. One way or another, the whole air conditioning thing changed the game and cities like Chicago and Detroit, although large metros, are barely holding on to population while places like Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Orlando are booming. I think there might be a correlation with the cold weather. Of course, there are other factors, but it is a big one.
As a northern transplant working in tech myself, I have to say that weather was not probably even in the top ten of considerations for me when relocating. Availability of jobs, quality of life, and cost of living were way more important. Don't get me wrong, the northern winters suck, but you learn to deal with it.
People were leaving the rust belt because it is harder to find jobs there which is solved if Amazon comes to town. Of the northern cities, I would have to think Boston is a contender because of the highly educated workforce there. In Detroit, I would think education would weaken its chances. One, who wants to put their kids in those schools? And, two, besides that school up North (boo), what other well respected schools are in that area?
Orlando submitted a proposal too:
http://www.wftv.com/news/local/could-amazon-call-orlando-home-city-on-list-for-next-global-headquarters/612210661
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-bz-amazon-hq2-bid-workforce-20170921-story.html
https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/09/15/orlando-to-bid-for-amazon-headquarters.html
QuoteOrlando Economic Partnership, representing the Orlando Metropolitan Statistical Area, was invited by Amazon to submit a proposal for the headquarters. "The Partnership will aggressively pursue this project and is already in the process of selecting the best sites that meet, and even exceed, Amazon's requirements," said Tim Giuliani, president and CEO of the Orlando Economic Partnership, in a statement. "We have a great opportunity to showcase Orlando's strong talent pipeline, top-ranked infrastructure, variety of real estate options and commitment to exceptional education, sustainability and inclusiveness."
The city of Orlando also is working with the Orlando Economic Partnership to submit a proposal; and Florida Enterprise, the state's economic agency is pursuing the deal for all of Florida. "As the most strategic location on the eastern seaboard for global commerce and with a strong workforce and several locations meeting Amazon's needs, Florida is an ideal location for HQ2.," said Nathan Edwards, spokesman for the economic agency.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 20, 2017, 05:48:57 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 20, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 20, 2017, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 19, 2017, 11:13:56 AM
Although it would have higher chances than a metro 1/4 its size like Jax landing the HQ, I doubt Amazon ends up in Detroit. However, it won't be because of its brutal winters. Unless Gilbert and his friends offer an insane incentives package on behalf of the city, I doubt they'll be able to effectively compete head-to-head with several of the larger Sunbelt and East Coast regions. It's cool to see them trying. The core of that city isn't as half bad as the negative national press it tends to get.
I do. Could you imagine getting placed in Detroit rather than Seattle? Brutal. Taking incentives out of the picture, going to Atlanta, Texas, North Carolina or Florida is much more desirable with similar sized metros that aren't shrinking like Tampa, Orlando, or Miami.
Many could make the same argument you're making against Detroit, against Jax. Instead of brutal winters you get brutal summers. Chicago has the same winters as Detroit. However, I can certainly see a situation where many would select Chicago over Seattle.
For sure, but which Top 50 metros are the slowest growing?
1. Cleveland: -1.04% growth
2. Pittsburgh: -.59% growth
3. Hartford: - 46% growth
4. Buffalo: -.24% growth
5. Detroit: .03% growth
6. Chicago: .55% growth
7. St. Louis: .69% growth
8. Milwaukee: 1.07% growth
Fastest Growing?
1. Austin 19.82% Growth
2. Raleigh: 15.25% Growth
3. Houston: 14.39% Growth
4. Orlando: 14.38% Growth
5. San Antonio: 13.40% Growth
6. Dallas: 12.56% Growth
7. Nashville 11%
8. Charlotte 11%
9. Phoenix 11%
10. Las Vegas 10.47%
Jacksonville comes in #13 I believe at 9.86%. One way or another, the whole air conditioning thing changed the game and cities like Chicago and Detroit, although large metros, are barely holding on to population while places like Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Orlando are booming. I think there might be a correlation with the cold weather. Of course, there are other factors, but it is a big one.
As a northern transplant as well, I can tell you weather had zero to do with it. Personally, I'd take Long Island's winters (note, nothing like the mid-west winters but still cold) over Florida's summers.
We relocated because my dad's company, which was based on Long Island, was purchased and the HQ was moved off the island, mainly because of high taxes.
Of your list of growing places, all have a much lower than average cost of doing business, and 5 of your top 6 are states without personal income tax.
This article includes a map of the >100 cities that have expressed interest. And this article is over a week old.
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/100-plus-contenders-imagine-hosting-amazons-hq2/
Perhaps I am mistaken but from my recollection of the RFP Amazon specifically asked metropolitan areas over 1M to submit one proposal...there's a lot of individual cities within MSAs acting independently so far it seems.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 21, 2017, 05:54:16 AM
Orlando submitted is going to submit a proposal too:
Fixed it for you. Since what you said contradicts what I said ;D
Quote from: Steve on September 21, 2017, 07:47:30 AM
As a northern transplant as well, I can tell you weather had zero to do with it. Personally, I'd take Long Island's winters (note, nothing like the mid-west winters but still cold) over Florida's summers.
Yeah I actually preferred Chicago winter to Jax summer tbh. But my wife does not.
Will Jax/St Johns County make a bid at least to say they did?
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least. If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee? I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc. Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire? There is a reason for that.
Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer? Sure, but you can still do things outside. You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening. Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window. You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach. It sucks with a capital SUCK.
I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close! (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)
I don't know many people from my side of the tracks that retire and move anywhere. However, not sure what retiring or weather have to do with Amazon getting a city/state to fork over billions in incentives for their operations. If either hell or the north pole can meet their minimum requirements, while also providing the most incentives, they'll be there.
Quote from: TimmyB on September 21, 2017, 07:54:54 PM
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least. If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee? I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc. Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire? There is a reason for that.
Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer? Sure, but you can still do things outside. You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening. Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window. You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach. It sucks with a capital SUCK.
I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close! (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)
^Spoken like a guy who's lived up north all (or most of) his life and hasn't spent an appreciable amount of time in the South East! I left Jax to get away from the heat. Not the only reason, of course, but a motivating factor. It's just too hot for too many months. And I like seasons.
South Florida has tossed its name in the mix:
QuoteSouth Florida hopes to persuade Seattle-based Amazon that it is the perfect location for the online shipping giant's second North American headquarters, an eight-million-square-foot, 50,000-employee campus.
Economic development leaders say landing the $5 billion development would be transformational for South Florida, creating an "international technology hub" with all the ancillary businesses that would follow the company to the region. They have decided a team effort is needed to beat out the heavy competition from across the country and Canada, so the Beacon Council Miami-Dade, the Greater Fort Lauderdale Alliance in Broward and the Business Development Board of Palm Beach County are putting together a joint proposal, the Sun Sentinel reported.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article174711856.html
Jax has little to no shot here, but in my opinion COJ (or Khan/Rummell) should try and put something together to pitch The Shipyards and The District as a joint spot for HQ, with a pedestrian bridge across the SJR. Its basically free advertising for the City and to those potential developments to a lot of the most influential people in the business and real estate sectors nationwide.
I'm working with a large national development group on a project and one of the executives told me the other day that there is a lot of behind the scenes movement to try and figure out what cities Amazon already has their eye on and what opportunities are there. If Jax could even make a shortlist, it would generate a ton of exposure to Downtown. That said, a bad proposal could do more damage than not submitting at all. So hopefully COJ goes all in if they do submit.
One interesting dynamic is the potential competition between South Florida, Tampa, Orlando, and possibly Jax. I'd like to see the State come out and say that it will provide X amount of incentives to anyone of the state's cities that wins. That way the state is not at a competitive disadvantage against a one city state like Georgia. Unfortunately, the recent hurricanes will put a damper on the state's efforts. I think it will be Boston, Atlanta, or Austin, but South Florida has an outside chance. Bezos partially grew up in Miami, opens up opportunities to grow the Latin market, highly desirable place to live, diverse and educated workforce, and similar access to the nation's elites that you would get in NYC or Boston. I would guess that Ft. Lauderdale would be the spot if in South Florida.
Quote from: Adam White on September 22, 2017, 06:34:05 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on September 21, 2017, 07:54:54 PM
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least. If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee? I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc. Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire? There is a reason for that.
Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer? Sure, but you can still do things outside. You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening. Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window. You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach. It sucks with a capital SUCK.
I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close! (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)
^Spoken like a guy who's lived up north all (or most of) his life and hasn't spent an appreciable amount of time in the South East! I left Jax to get away from the heat. Not the only reason, of course, but a motivating factor. It's just too hot for too many months. And I like seasons.
No doubt, Adam. But, as I said, even in the heat, I can still train outside. I get up early or go out late. Up there, I'm stuck on a treadmill or stationary bike for half of the year. Did I mention that it SUCKS? ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: TimmyB on September 21, 2017, 07:54:54 PM
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least. If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee? I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc. Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire? There is a reason for that.
Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer? Sure, but you can still do things outside. You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening. Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window. You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach. It sucks with a capital SUCK.
I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close! (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)
For every one that moves south when they retire, there are another several people who stay up north.
If weather was such a crucial factor, then you would not see growth in Fargo, North Dakota, for instance, yet people are moving there because it has jobs. Weather is not a non-factor, but to me it is more of a bonus. My kids beg me to move back North because they miss the snow, but I have to admit it is nice not having to scrape your windows every morning for half the year. :)
Quote from: TimmyB on September 22, 2017, 09:31:19 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 22, 2017, 06:34:05 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on September 21, 2017, 07:54:54 PM
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least. If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee? I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc. Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire? There is a reason for that.
Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer? Sure, but you can still do things outside. You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening. Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window. You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach. It sucks with a capital SUCK.
I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close! (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)
^Spoken like a guy who's lived up north all (or most of) his life and hasn't spent an appreciable amount of time in the South East! I left Jax to get away from the heat. Not the only reason, of course, but a motivating factor. It's just too hot for too many months. And I like seasons.
No doubt, Adam. But, as I said, even in the heat, I can still train outside. I get up early or go out late. Up there, I'm stuck on a treadmill or stationary bike for half of the year. Did I mention that it SUCKS? ;D ;D ;D
The grass is always greener!
I prefer a milder summer - I think one thing that really sucks about the heat in Jax is how it doesn't really cool off when the sun goes down. And the humidity is pretty bad, too. I imagine the winters in Michigan are pretty harsh, though!
Weather is absolutely a factor in where people live. Of course it isn't the only factor, but it does matter. There's a reason the word snowbird exists....
I think it also may play a role in the Amazon relocation as well. I suspect that if Amazon relocates to a warmer place like Austin, Atlanta, or Florida, many of their execs and senior employees would either live half the year in both places, or at minimum would spend a month here and there at the warmer location. These are people that can easily afford two homes. Likewise, the senior employees that would be based at the warmer location, would be able to spend summer vacations in the mountains or Europe like many well off Floridians and Atlantans already do.
Intensity of cold or heat is irrelevant indoors... Outdoors when it it hot and humid... there is only so much you can do to cool off and even then the sweat is still pouring off you. In the cold... you just add layers to stay warm. Too warm? remove a layer... too cold? add one.
Hot vs cold weather wasn't identified as a factor in Amazon's search for HQ2. They're not coming to an Atlanta if it proposes a $2 billion incentive package and a place like Chicago or Boston counters with $5 billion. Their preference is a place that will make it rain free money, property and tax incentives for their business. From that perspective, every large scale metropolitan area from Toronto, Chicago and Boston to Atlanta, Dallas and Miami may be in the game.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2017, 10:35:20 AM
Hot vs cold weather wasn't identified as a factor in Amazon's search for HQ2. They're not coming to an Atlanta if it proposes a $2 billion incentive package and a place like Chicago or Boston counters with $5 billion. Their preference is a place that will make it rain free money, property and tax incentives for their business. From that perspective, every large scale metropolitan area from Toronto, Chicago and Boston to Atlanta, Dallas and Miami may be in the game.
One of the 8 "decision drivers/key preferences"
Community/Quality of Life – The Project requires a significant number of employees. We want to invest in a community where our employees will enjoy living, recreational opportunities, educational opportunities, and an overall high quality of life. Tell us what is unique about your community.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2017, 07:36:12 AM
South Florida has tossed its name in the mix:
QuoteSouth Florida hopes to persuade Seattle-based Amazon that it is the perfect location for the online shipping giant's second North American headquarters, an eight-million-square-foot, 50,000-employee campus.
Economic development leaders say landing the $5 billion development would be transformational for South Florida, creating an "international technology hub" with all the ancillary businesses that would follow the company to the region. They have decided a team effort is needed to beat out the heavy competition from across the country and Canada, so the Beacon Council Miami-Dade, the Greater Fort Lauderdale Alliance in Broward and the Business Development Board of Palm Beach County are putting together a joint proposal, the Sun Sentinel reported.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article174711856.html
Both Miami and Ft Lauderdale's business development groups announced they were bidding over a week ago. Palm Beach announced a few days later. Jax is really one of just a few top 75 MSAs whose business or city leaders still haven't said anything.
I checked the RFP again and in the very first paragraph it says:
Quote...submit one (1) RFP for your MSA. The RFP may contain
multiple real estate sites in more than one jurisdiction, but we do encourage you to submit your best...
I took that to mean that they want the entities within one MSA to coordinate, not all submit separate proposals. That said, I guess that guideline is pretty much impossible to adhere to for most nonconsolidated regions.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2017, 10:35:20 AM
Their preference is a place that will make it rain free money, property and tax incentives for their business.
I dont think this is the end-all for their decision. Just a hunch but I believe they want a major commitment from their future site, but not necessarily in terms of tax breaks. Their continued emphasis on creative thinking suggests that they would welcome commitment to significant investments that would help a community meet their needs. Ie, significant investment into mass transit, into luring more tech professionals, into improving educational infrastructure, etc. I think there are many ways to skin this cat...although you still have to be in the same ballpark tax-wise.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 22, 2017, 10:47:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2017, 10:35:20 AM
Their preference is a place that will make it rain free money, property and tax incentives for their business.
I dont think this is the end-all for their decision. Just a hunch but I believe they want a major commitment from their future site, but not necessarily in terms of tax breaks. Their continued emphasis on creative thinking suggests that they would welcome commitment to significant investments that would help a community meet their needs. Ie, significant investment into mass transit, into luring more tech professionals, into improving educational infrastructure, etc. I think there are many ways to skin this cat...although you still have to be in the same ballpark tax-wise.
Correct. They will likely do a weighted matrix to evaluate multiple criteria they are looking at. I'm sure only Amazon will know how heavily each criteria is weighted.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 22, 2017, 10:47:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2017, 10:35:20 AM
Their preference is a place that will make it rain free money, property and tax incentives for their business.
I dont think this is the end-all for their decision. Just a hunch but I believe they want a major commitment from their future site, but not necessarily in terms of tax breaks. Their continued emphasis on creative thinking suggests that they would welcome commitment to significant investments that would help a community meet their needs. Ie, significant investment into mass transit, into luring more tech professionals, into improving educational infrastructure, etc. I think there are many ways to skin this cat...although you still have to be in the same ballpark tax-wise.
I'd say, assuming the community is one that meets the basic criteria identified for their operations, it will be about 90% of it. Foxconn just got a $3 billion incentive package for its Wisconsin plant and the 13,000 jobs they'll create. To have a chance at HQ2, you're going to have to offer up a lot more than that. The whole concept puts struggling metropolitan areas at a significant disadvantage. So, all those other ways to skin a cat will, like weather, may add up to about 10%. If the goal is to help a community that really needs it, this wouldn't be the right approach to take.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2017, 12:20:03 PM
So, all those other ways to skin a cat will, like weather, may add up to about 10%. If the goal is to help a community that really needs it, this wouldn't be the right approach to take.
We'll disagree then. Add that to the short list with the Heat and Canes.
Unfortunately for you, you're going to hate the next few months. Both the Canes and the Heat are going to be good this year.
DOES ANYONE KNOW, ARE WE (COJ) SUBMITTING A BID/PROPOSAL?
Quote from: MusicMan on September 26, 2017, 08:37:05 AM
DOES ANYONE KNOW, ARE WE (COJ) SUBMITTING A BID/PROPOSAL?
Rather than sitting on the shift key, why not do something productive and email someone at the city?
I hope JAXUSA will still send them the flyer : http://jaxusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/headquarters-business-case.pdf
Haven't heard a peep from the Mayor's Office. It's as if Curry has all his eggs in the Kahn/Shipyards basket and he can't see anything else.
I did Captain. Did you?
Actually called them, too. First day it was announced.
Because my e-mail got sent back. Spoke with his Director of PR or Communications.
But have not seen anything in the press regarding COJ taking action, so........
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 26, 2017, 05:58:16 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 22, 2017, 10:47:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 22, 2017, 10:35:20 AM
Their preference is a place that will make it rain free money, property and tax incentives for their business.
I dont think this is the end-all for their decision. Just a hunch but I believe they want a major commitment from their future site, but not necessarily in terms of tax breaks. Their continued emphasis on creative thinking suggests that they would welcome commitment to significant investments that would help a community meet their needs. Ie, significant investment into mass transit, into luring more tech professionals, into improving educational infrastructure, etc. I think there are many ways to skin this cat...although you still have to be in the same ballpark tax-wise.
Hey, Jeff Bezos called to thank you for carrying his water and being super credulous as to the motives of a billion dollar corporation. I also think it's cute you think they give even one half of a shit about anything other than the bottom line.
Ummm, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're having a bad day here. As for what I said, I did not and am not suggesting it's not about the bottom line. I'm simply saying strictly looking at tax breaks doesn't dictate what is best for the bottom line. It's cute that you want to share your opinions on things like running a business when you're seemingly quite out of your depth.
I sent the Mayor's office an email as well. Have not heard back.
cant muster a care about this one as we stand zero chance.
TOP TECH TALENT. Jax? LOLLLL.
Our population is suited to fill warehouse jobs and amazon will leave it at that. Mayor has better things to do than entertain delusions
I'm curious if our lack of public discourse from the mayors office is because he and Khan are hatching out a way to incorporate it into the Shipyards deal. And let's just toss in some of the District in their good measure. And why not some of the area east of the stadium? They were at one time part of a 5 tower proposal back in the mid 2000's.
I mean if we are going to dream the implausible, why not go big about it?
Of course, we aren't going to offer a viable financial package so it's barely worth throwing our hat in the ring.
"cant muster a care about this one as we stand zero chance. "
That was a majority opinion regarding Jacksonville getting an NFL franchise, too.
You have to try. Then when the next opportunity like this comes along we'll be better prepared.
I don't think the Mayor is under any obligation to inform citizens of possible behind the scenes efforts to put together an Amazon proposal, and it's probably best strategically if they keep a potential proposal under wraps.
I ran into an acquaintance yesterday that is a tech leader in one of the places that has been mentioned as a viable candidate. He's working closely with various economic development groups in his area on the Amazon proposal and they are all in on it. However, they are extremely concerned that the cost of real estate and lack of available office space in key potential locations will ultimately kill their chances.
After hearing that, it made me think that Jax does actually stand a chance to make a shortlist, if it can put together the proposal I mentioned earlier in the thread. Find temporary spots for the initial 500k square feet downtown (or fast track new towers). Partner with Khan and Rummel to locate the possible 8 million square feet at The Shipyards and The District. Propose to expand the Skyway to the Stadium/Shipyards and continue it across the river to the District, along with a bike/pedestrian bridge. Offer up REV grants and tax abatements on the properties, and get the state to offer up their share (which they will likely do for any Amazon pitch in the state). Highlight the new Intuition, potential renovation of the Doro building, adjacent stadiums, arena, and amphitheater, Exchange Island, and Hogan's Creek Greenway/Emerald Necklace Opportunities.
Because of the availability of prime waterfront land, DT Jax does have one of the most ripe areas for redevelopment in the country with the $5 billion that Amazon will be throwing down on construction. Ultimately, its a huge uphill battle with other constraints at play, but it would make a great statement to the country, region, and state if Jax could make one of the shortlists.
Are you suggesting they would locate in Buffalo over Austin, if Buffalo provides a $500 million incentive package and Austin provides a $450 million incentive package?
They'd end up in Canada if that's all the money an american city could muster up. Someplace is going to offer billions.
Those were just hypothetical numbers for discussion purposes. They will no doubt get offers in the billions.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 27, 2017, 02:25:38 PM
Yes, I am so out of depth that I think that Amazon cares about its bottom line profitability at that's it. Clearly you are in the shallow end doing fine, thinking that they give two fucks about "commitment" to technology investments or some such BS. As we see again and again across all sectors, all that matters is who will pay a business to come do business in their city. But, you're right, I am sooooooo out of my depth. I totally dont have any knowledge on this very simple and obvious proposition. They'll totally take less in tax breaks because Tucson says "hey we are going to put wi-fi on our mass transit!"
I'm not one to pick fights (and in this case I don't think I was the one doing that) so I'd normally just let your post sit in its ignorance, but I'll try one last time to at least clarify the part of this that might be a misunderstanding. Ennis' argument was that Amazon will pick the proposal with the largest tax incentive amongst cities that can meet their needs (or that that would be 90% of the decision). My argument was that while that might happen, I think there's a chance they would consider other significant factors that all CONTRIBUTE TO THE BOTTOM LINE.
And yes, we could look at wifi on mass transit and assign a value to that. A company like Amazon will probably do that in fact.
You speak with a lot more certainty than even experts or insiders with knowledge are using. Just an observation.
Why can't we all just admit that no one here has a clue and most of you are just talking out of your asses?
I'm pretty confident that they'll select a place that offers an incentive package worth billions. In fact, I'd bet the house on that. That's about the only thing I'd be willing to go out on a limp.
If I were Amazon, I would look at sites through three types of criteria:
(1) Those that are uncontrollable or close to that (e.g. geography, natural features [such as weather], population, etc.)
(2) Those that are immediately controllable/available (e.g. tax incentives, training, affordably real estate, etc.), and
(3) Those that might possibly be controllable/available over a moderate to longer period of time (infrastructure, some social issues, mass transit, airport connectivity, business and employment environment, technical workforce, quality of life, etc.).
I would then prioritize what is most important for the success of my business, factor in the probabilities of achieving the various controllable/available options (the longer it takes to control/make available, the lower its likely probability due to the higher risks of successfully executing over longer time periods), and weigh out the responses accordingly. There may be some intangibles to overlay over the final analysis (chemistry with local and state officials, cultural issues, etc.). My guess is there will be some obvious finalists, if not one above all others.
Jax might fare OK with criteria in (1) and (2) which I would weigh the most. But in a tie breaker, Jax's issues may be (3), too many moderate to longer controllables/unavailables with lower probabilities, dragging our score down, along with a split decision on intangibles. Amazon's doesn't seem to show much patience in executing its intentions so waiting around/hoping for future improvements when they can have them now is an issue. Our saving grace would be if every site has weighted issues equal to ours making it a horse race like when we competed for the Jaguars.
What if the Healthy Town site is secretly Amazon? :o
First indication that Jax will be bidding on Amazon, along with Tampa, Orlando, and South Florida. This coming from head of Enterprise Florida.
http://floridapolitics.com/archives/245736-pete-antonacci-amazon-proposals-incentive-bearing-possible
QuoteSpeaking to the Florida Chamber of Commerce's 2017 Future of Florida Forum in Orlando Thursday, Antonacci said packages including financial incentives are being pulled together in Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, and South Florida and Enterprise Florida Inc.
Quote from: Adam White on September 27, 2017, 03:56:00 PM
Why can't we all just admit that no one here has a clue and most of you are just talking out of your asses?
Not sure if we are talking out of our asses necessarily, but yes I agree nobody can legitimately claim to have any idea where HQ2 will be going.
Quote from: FlaBoy on September 28, 2017, 05:26:52 PM
First indication that Jax will be bidding on Amazon, along with Tampa, Orlando, and South Florida. This coming from head of Enterprise Florida.
http://floridapolitics.com/archives/245736-pete-antonacci-amazon-proposals-incentive-bearing-possible
QuoteSpeaking to the Florida Chamber of Commerce's 2017 Future of Florida Forum in Orlando Thursday, Antonacci said packages including financial incentives are being pulled together in Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, and South Florida and Enterprise Florida Inc.
That's nice to hear. I've read that South FL is putting together a tri-county bid with Palm Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade, which follows Amazon's request for metro areas to work together as a region. But then I hear that Doral is going rogue with its own bid to bring Amazon into our little faux downtown area (very SJTC) and well...all I can say is traffic is already hellish here. The bid better include full-scale infrastructure improvements.
In any case, New Jersey is setting the bar extremely high...probably blowing 95% of potential suitors out of the water now.
QuoteGov. Chris Christie and legislative leaders will offer tax breaks worth $5 billion to Amazon if it builds its second headquarters in New Jersey
http://observer.com/2017/09/christie-lawmakers-plan-to-offer-amazon-5-billion-tax-break/
$5 billion? To be honest, based on some other recent massive incentives deals, I expect someone will offer at least $8 billion.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 30, 2017, 07:42:36 AM
$5 billion? To be honest, based on some other recent massive incentives deals, I expect someone will offer at least $8 billion.
I think so too. But I think most of the 100+ cities that have expressed interest are simply not going to be able to. And amongst regions that have the infrastructure that the Gateway offers (North and Central Jersey), can anyone muster anything close to that? The Jersey side of NYC, while perhaps not ideal for NYC, is still pretty close to offering everything Amazon wants except extremely low cost.
BTW, I read that $2M/job is the average incentive for tech companies opening data centers...which would mean
$100B for Amazon if they reach their 50k job mark.
I think Jacksonville absolutely should be pursuing this, regardless of their perceived chances of success.
Why JAX?
1. It's Florida. Great weather. Great beaches. No state income tax. Plenty of vacant land.
2. UF, FSU, and UNF. That's a respectable list and all within 160 miles, a short drive or flight.
3. JAX International Airport. A really nice facility and primed for expansion for more international flights.
4. The St Johns river and Jaxport. Literally unlimited opportunities for expansion and recreation.
5. The Jaguars and Shad Khan. An NFL franchise and one of the most dynamic owners. Can anyone say "Amazon.com Stadium?"
6. The Players Championship and the PGA. Another opportunity for a world class corporate tie in/sponsorship.
7. I 10 an I 95. Add CSX and you have a transportation and logistics hub that is well established but not too crowded.
8. Amazing health care infrastructure in place. Mayo, Baptist, UF Health Proton therapy, MD Anderson, . it's a really impressive list.
9. Plenty of large vacant buildings downtown and plenty of vacant parcels. Add to that the impending demolition of the old court house
and surrounding area .......
10. I could easily see Bezos partnering with Elon Musk to design and build a fleet of autonomous 15-20 passenger vans that connect his
downtown campus. Once in service he could sell the vans to municipalities around the globe.
11. Haskell. A world class design build firm right here in Jacksonville ready to take on any construction task Amazon could put forth.
12. Unless I'm mistaken , there are more Fortune 500 Companies in Jax than any other Florida city.
13. No real competition here. If Amazon picked Jacksonville they would immediately be THE PLAYER in North East Florida, and perhaps
the most important corporation in the state. That's a lot of power and influence and from here they could make a lot happen, with
very little local interference. Politically, they could impact national and local elections if desired.
14. Be honest. Jax is pretty much a blank slate in it's current form. There are few cities this old with this much upside.
15. Besides Detroit, there is no place Amazon can go where the cost of operation is going to be lower than here. Quality real estate for
this type of project is cheap and plentiful. Wages in Florida are lower than most of the competing areas. New Jersey? You'll have to
pay double for each person so they can afford to live nearby. Not here.
Add it all up.
WE WIN!!!!
The way I see it, every city across the country can and will make a similar chamber of commerce style pitch.
Ah, sure Lake.
But let's first eliminate the cities that don't have an NFL franchise.
Eliminate the cities that don't boast gorgeous beaches.
Eliminate the cities that don't host a Major PGA Championship event.
How many are left?
Eliminate the cities that don't have a serious international port.
Eliminate the cities that have no state income tax.
Eliminate the cities that do not have multiple large vacant buildings and real estate parcels literally littering their downtowns.
How many are left?
The reason Jax might suck now has nothing to do with it's potential, only the 'good ole boy' mentality that drove everything downtown for the last 5 decades.
Quote from: MusicMan on October 01, 2017, 07:28:05 PM
Ah, sure Lake.
But let's first eliminate the cities that don't have an NFL franchise.
But one can say, let's eliminate the cities that don't have all 4 major sports franchises. That takes a list down to 13. Another could say, let's eliminate all cities that don't already have a viable mass transit system. Or let's eliminate the cities that don't have four seasons throughout the year. How about eliminating all cities that don't have a major college in their urban core or an airport that serves as a hub to a major airline. How about eliminating the cities that aren't within 60 minutes of a ski resort? There's a million ways play the chamber of commerce game. If Jax wants a real chance, it will have to figure out how to bring billions in tax incentives and free money to the game. Without that, everything else won't matter.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 30, 2017, 07:42:36 AM
$5 billion? To be honest, based on some other recent massive incentives deals, I expect someone will offer at least $8 billion.
When your tax rate is the largest in the country, it is easy to provide tax breaks. Some states like TX, TN, FL, etc. already have some incentives built in with low tax rates for these companies.
Quote from: MusicMan on October 01, 2017, 07:28:05 PM
Ah, sure Lake.
But let's first eliminate the cities that don't have an NFL franchise.
Why eleminate cities that don't have an NFL franchise? Are you saying that being an NFL city is a prerequisite? That makes no sense to me.
No. Saying its something that sets us apart from many cities, not a pre-requisite. I laid out a list that IMO made us look attractive to Amazon.
How many cities in US are on their short list that do not have an NFL franchise?
Anyway, I put forth the list because I do believe we have a unique offering for Amazon that no one else can put on the table. You are focusing on "how much money can we give them?" I'm looking at the tangible and intangible items that IMO make us VERY attractive to Amazon. I also e mailed and called the Mayor's office. Has anyone else done that?
Quote from: MusicMan on October 02, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
No. Saying its something that sets us apart from many cities, not a pre-requisite. I laid out a list that IMO made us look attractive to Amazon.
How many cities in US are on their short list that do not have an NFL franchise?
Anyway, I put forth the list because I do believe we have a unique offering for Amazon that no one else can put on the table. You are focusing on "how much money can we give them?" I'm looking at the tangible and intangible items that IMO make us VERY attractive to Amazon. I also e mailed and called the Mayor's office. Has anyone else done that?
To be fair, I'm the first person who will admit he has no idea what Amazon is looking for and what type of deal Jax will offer. This is far outside of my area of expertise (if I even have one) and I'm not going to engage in some pissing contest over it.
That said, I would assume that any city could come up with a list of great things that make it unique. And for me, personally, the idea of an NFL team would never have entered my mind.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 30, 2017, 12:13:28 AM
But then I hear that Doral is going rogue with its own bid to bring Amazon into our little faux downtown area (very SJTC) and well...all I can say is traffic is already hellish here. The bid better include full-scale infrastructure improvements.
SJTC is not only a horrible idea but should never be uttered as a possible site by anyone with any development and/planning experience. I'd go so far as to say they need to get out of the profession.
They need the equivalent of 8 Everbank Towers (8 million sqft) and the entirety of downtown employees (50,000). SJTC itself is pretty much at full build out and what small parcels are left are likely already accounted for. The closest that would even remotely be considered viable is the UNF Technology Park and Amazon seems adamant about not going suburban with HQ2.
how is this thread still a thing
HQ is not coming here. ever. let's move along.
Quote from: MusicMan on October 02, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
How many cities in US are on their short list that do not have an NFL franchise?
I'd guess that Austin, Raleigh, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa have a better shot than Jax. Probably Orlando too.
Quote from: Jim on October 02, 2017, 09:20:00 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 30, 2017, 12:13:28 AM
But then I hear that Doral is going rogue with its own bid to bring Amazon into our little faux downtown area (very SJTC) and well...all I can say is traffic is already hellish here. The bid better include full-scale infrastructure improvements.
SJTC is not only a horrible idea but should never be uttered as a possible site by anyone with any development and/planning experience. I'd go so far as to say they need to get out of the profession.
They need the equivalent of 8 Everbank Towers (8 million sqft) and the entirety of downtown employees (50,000). SJTC itself is pretty much at full build out and what small parcels are left are likely already accounted for. The closest that would even remotely be considered viable is the UNF Technology Park and Amazon seems adamant about not going suburban with HQ2.
I think you misunderstood what I said. I now live in Doral, FL, and the site that Doral leaders/developers are proposing is very SJTC-like. However, it is zoned for office towers and it does have dozens of completely undeveloped acreage available so it's perhaps a better possibility than the SJTC in Jax. But it's also a very long shot for many reasons, one of which is that it is competing against the Greater South Florida cooperative bid.
^I wonder if this year's hurricane season, and the increased potential for more seasons like it, would scare Amazon away from South Florida.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 02, 2017, 11:15:50 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on October 02, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
How many cities in US are on their short list that do not have an NFL franchise?
I'd guess that Austin, Raleigh, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa have a better shot than Jax. Probably Orlando too.
Quote from: Jim on October 02, 2017, 09:20:00 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 30, 2017, 12:13:28 AM
But then I hear that Doral is going rogue with its own bid to bring Amazon into our little faux downtown area (very SJTC) and well...all I can say is traffic is already hellish here. The bid better include full-scale infrastructure improvements.
SJTC is not only a horrible idea but should never be uttered as a possible site by anyone with any development and/planning experience. I'd go so far as to say they need to get out of the profession.
They need the equivalent of 8 Everbank Towers (8 million sqft) and the entirety of downtown employees (50,000). SJTC itself is pretty much at full build out and what small parcels are left are likely already accounted for. The closest that would even remotely be considered viable is the UNF Technology Park and Amazon seems adamant about not going suburban with HQ2.
I think you misunderstood what I said. I now live in Doral, FL, and the site that Doral leaders/developers are proposing is very SJTC-like. However, it is zoned for office towers and it does have dozens of completely undeveloped acreage available so it's perhaps a better possibility than the SJTC in Jax. But it's also a very long shot for many reasons, one of which is that it is competing against the Greater South Florida cooperative bid.
Ah. My apologies. That clarifies it.
I'm checking Google Earth but nothing looks viable around Doral either. Can you name the intersection closest to the area? I'm trying to find something like SJTC in the area and I'm not seeing it.
"how is this thread still a thing"
Well, it gives us something to mull over while we wait for the promised projects, like The ShipYards, The District, San Marco Publix, Berkman 2, The Landing rehab, to actually begin! And we could be waiting a long time my friend.
Where ever Amazon goes they will be done (with Phase 1) by the time The Shipyards gets started!!
This city should be home to the "World Tractor Pull Hall of Fame", 'cause we are always stuck in the mud.
Quote from: KenFSU on October 02, 2017, 11:22:55 AM
^I wonder if this year's hurricane season, and the increased potential for more seasons like it, would scare Amazon away from South Florida.
I think it could. Ultimately might not be the biggest concern, but it probably is a factor overall. Miami is claiming Bezos' allegiance because he graduated from high school here. Then again I've heard Albuquerque try to play up his birthplace and early years there, while Houston has claimed Jeff in elementary and middle school lol. I totally understand people who find this entire process absurd...and fascinating.
Quote from: Jim on October 02, 2017, 12:32:20 PM
Ah. My apologies. That clarifies it.
I'm checking Google Earth but nothing looks viable around Doral either. Can you name the intersection closest to the area? I'm trying to find something like SJTC in the area and I'm not seeing it.
The Codina Partners Downtown Doral development I
believe includes a little over 100 acres where Dragonfly Izakaya is located (just ate there last weekend and walked around all the shops) You'll see one strip of businesses with a couple condo towers behind them. The rest is manicured and landscaped and planned to be mixed use development over a few more years. Apparently adjacent to it is a golf course known as the "White Course" with around 150 acres total. The White Course was purchased by Codina and Lennar, and they propose to give Amazon land on this course to develop for its campus. The rest of the development is supposed to be more mixed use. Lennar/Codina paid over $100M for this land and outbid Donald Trump, among others, for it.
QuoteThe White Course, located in the northeast quadrant of Northwest 41st Street and Northwest 87th Avenue, is contiguous to the Trump National Doral Resort and Codina's 120-acre Downtown Doral mixed-use project.
The other SJTC-like area I have been to is Cityplace Doral (http://www.cityplacedoral.com) which is directly south of this area.
These are the articles I read to give you my answer:
https://therealdeal.com/miami/2016/01/27/codina-and-lennar-to-buy-redevelop-white-course-in-doral/
https://therealdeal.com/miami/2017/09/27/codinas-downtown-doral-enters-the-race-for-amazons-second-hq/
And the article I read on Fri which prompted this discussion:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article176015966.html
Quote from: MusicMan on October 01, 2017, 12:20:58 PM
3. JAX International Airport. A really nice facility and primed for expansion for more international flights.
Not to belabor this thread, but as a very frequent traveler (At the top of Delta's Medallion program), JAX is NOT an asset. It's not that I don't like our airport; I really do. It's just not very large, and I think international flights across a pond (and I include the Caribbean to South America) are a LONG way off; if ever.
One of the challenges (and I posted this in another thread) is simply distance to Western Europe. As an example, Delta can serve much of the eastern seaboard (down to like North Carolina) to Europe with a 757 (seats 180). This is Delta's smallest plane that can fly overseas. It cannot use that from JAX, as the 757's range isn't long enough to reliably make the flight (it's literally right on the edge, and they will never schedule a route right on the edge of a plane's range). They can use a 767 (which can make it easily and come halfway back), but that seats 220. A difference of 40 people is a LOT in terms of filling a plane, and plane economics are such that they make money only if they come close to filling the plane.
I know Delta's network better than any of the airlines serving JAX. When Delta considers an international route for a US city, the first destinations in Europe are Paris and Amsterdam, as they have a joint hub at both of those airports (CDG through Air France, AMS through KLM). They just announced a non-stop from Orlando to Amsterdam starting next spring - this will pull more people than you realize from JAX. If I'm Delta, why would I add one in JAX when I can add one through MCO, and get the JAX crowd?
It hurts that Jacksonville is the "4th city" in Florida (thanks, Miami, Tampa, and Orlando), but it's the truth.
Sorry to rant on about this, but when I hear about JAX being an asset, I don't buy it.
You're not ranting, just making a point.
I was surprised you could fly non stop to Europe from Seattle, but you can. I guess my hypothesis is somewhat based on hoped future changes combined with the present reality.
I would also say that there is no perfect place for Amazon, and that they might have to chose a city that does not have at least one of the listed requirements.
Quote from: MusicMan on October 02, 2017, 10:45:16 PM
I was surprised you could fly non stop to Europe from Seattle, but you can. I guess my hypothesis is somewhat based on hoped future changes combined with the present reality.
From a distance perspective, it's about the same from Seattle to Europe as it is to Japan (roughly).
From a market perspective, SEA-TAC is one of the most competitive air markets in the country right now. That happened because Alaska Airlines (who, despite the name, are based in Seattle and have their hub at SEA-TAC). Delta once had a really strong partnership, and it was seeming like Delta might buy Alaska, then the partnership soured faster than a messy end to a Friends With Benefits arrangement. Delta has increased their flights there by like 250% in the past 5 years or something crazy like that (it's now one of their big trans-Pacific Gateway Hubs), and American has increased as well.
Just came across this week-old clip. Doesn't really add much to our thread but states that "one local official" and "one state official" confirm Jax is working on a bid.
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/jacksonville-could-have-sights-on-amazons-second-headquarters/616588953
Score one for Toronto. Google appears ready to build a $1 billion "smart city" on 12 acres of its urban core. Toronto is also putting itself in the running for Amazon's co-HQ's.
http://www.businessinsider.sg/google-alphabet-toronto-smart-city-2017-10/
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2017/10/04/google-firm-poised-to-partner-on-toronto-high-tech-neighbourhood.html
QuoteThe agency said the winning bidder must propose plans to foster sustainability, resiliency and urban innovation; complete communities with a range of housing types for families of all sizes and income levels; economic development and prosperity driving innovation that will be rolled out to the rest of the world; and partnership and investment ensuring a solid financial foundation that secures revenue and manages financial risk.
Toronto tech leaders at a Smart Cities event in Toronto last May said the city is on the cusp of a tech boom, noting talk of Google interest in the city and Uber's decision to make Toronto a hub for driverless car research.
Link below is to an "objective/empirical" analysis of city chances for the Amazon HQ2 based on Amazon's stated criteria per an economic consulting firm. 35 cities are ranked and Jax doesn't make the list. NYC, CHI, LA, BOS, ATL, WASH and PHIL are on top. Sacramento, Kansas City and San Jose bring up the rear.
I think PHIL could be a dark horse. Lots of high tech (birthplace of ENIAC, first digital computer and then there is Ben Franklin and his kite :) ) and major urban core research center (University City), robust higher education (I think second only to Boston in number of colleges/universities in the surrounding area with one Ivy League school, multiple medical and engineering schools, top notch liberal arts schools, etc.), great public transit, diverse population, full of culture, big city benefits with easier livability vs. NYC, large metro area, cheaper living than the other major NE urban centers, well connected international airport and nicely in-between NYC, WASH and BOS (via Amtrak high speed Acela WASH-PHL-NYC-BOS corridor). Also, top tier corporate HQ's including Comcast. Probably wouldn't hurt politically that at least 3 states (PA, NJ, and DEL) would all benefit from this spot and maybe, also MD. One thing I believe Amazon might want to factor in is time zones, especially if it plans to grow in Europe. This could further benefit an East Coast site.
http://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/Publications/Detail/tabid/125/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/8287/The-AEG-HQ2-Index-Which-Cities-Could-Be-at-the-Top-of-Amazons-Wishlist.aspx
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 06, 2017, 12:34:30 AM
I think PHIL could be a dark horse. Lots of high tech (birthplace of ENIAC, first digital computer and then there is Ben Franklin and his kite :) ) and major urban core research center (University City), robust higher education (I think second only to Boston in number of colleges/universities in the surrounding area with one Ivy League school, multiple medical and engineering schools, top notch liberal arts schools, etc.), great public transit, diverse population, full of culture, big city benefits with easier livability vs. NYC, large metro area, cheaper living than the other major NE urban centers, well connected international airport and nicely in-between NYC, WASH and BOS (via Amtrak high speed Acela WASH-PHL-NYC-BOS corridor). Also, top tier corporate HQ's including Comcast. Probably wouldn't hurt politically that at least 3 states (PA, NJ, and DEL) would all benefit from this spot and maybe, also MD. One thing I believe Amazon might want to factor in is time zones, especially if it plans to grow in Europe. This could further benefit an East Coast site.
http://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/Publications/Detail/tabid/125/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/8287/The-AEG-HQ2-Index-Which-Cities-Could-Be-at-the-Top-of-Amazons-Wishlist.aspx
And you forgot the Eagles :P
Surprised to see New Orleans on that list...
It's official, Mayor confirms Jax throwing its hat in the ring:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/mayor-city-to-bid-for-amazon-headquarters (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/mayor-city-to-bid-for-amazon-headquarters)
QuoteIn a statement released Friday afternoon, Curry said his administration is "keenly focused on economic growth and would like to see Amazon's presence grow."
"I strongly believe Jacksonville has all the attributes that make for a great place to do business – including a strong labor force, a low cost of doing business, and a great quality of life."
He said he and his team "are committed to doing everything we can to bring jobs and economic opportunities to Jacksonville; therefore, we are in the process of putting together a proposal to submit for this opportunity."
Curry did not elaborate about the proposal or the incentives package it would include.
Would love to see a copy of this (COJ proposal) in the public record. Is that possible?
The ultimate irony: Amazon building its second headquarters on the site of a dead shopping mall it helped kill off 8)! New life for Regency Square?
Quotehttps://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/shopping-malls-battered-by-online-retailers-may-be-offered-to-amazon-as-hq2-sites/
Now that it is official Jax will be making a bid for Amazon HQ2, where do you think the city will propose as potential sites?
CANT WAIT TIL WE LAND THIS!!
After reading the article in the Jax Business Journal, I believe the first and probably major disqualification is air service. We do not have direct/non-stop flights to Seattle or San Francisco. I know, this could be added, but if the initial building is only .5 million sq. feet there are not enough employees at Amazon to fill daily flights. The article in the Dailey record also mentions this. Deutsche Bank, Adecco, and Ernst and Young all said better air service including direct flight to Europe would really help attract larger companies.
I know airlines really cut down flights to non-hub cities after the recession. JIA took its fair share of capacity cutbacks. However, we have been very slow to bounce back, even as the local population expanded, the economy grew and large companies established sizable offices in the metro.
Even with a few new options this year, JIA traffic numbers are tracking slightly below last year. Given record air traffic across the US, a good local economy, and larger population base, can anyone offer any insight as to why our local ridership numbers are so stagnant?
Lack of air service is definitely a hindrance to growth.
Whenever I look up flights from Detroit to Jax, Orlando is typically around $75 cheaper, and that's not comparing it to the expensive DTW->JAX direct flight. I really would like to know why this is since I would much prefer JIA. Lack of competition, lack of demand, high airport fees, idk? *shrug*
Quote from: chipwich on October 09, 2017, 05:30:45 PM
I know airlines really cut down flights to non-hub cities after the recession. JIA took its fair share of capacity cutbacks. However, we have been very slow to bounce back, even as the local population expanded, the economy grew and large companies established sizable offices in the metro.
Even with a few new options this year, JIA traffic numbers are tracking slightly below last year. Given record air traffic across the US, a good local economy, and larger population base, can anyone offer any insight as to why our local ridership numbers are so stagnant?
Lack of air service is definitely a hindrance to growth.
I wonder if some of it has to do with willingness to drive to Orlando for lower fares and more direct flight/international options? When I lived in Austin, a lot of people were willing to drive to DFW for the same reasons. Austin has grown astronomically since then, of course.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on October 09, 2017, 06:09:38 PM
Quote from: chipwich on October 09, 2017, 05:30:45 PM
I know airlines really cut down flights to non-hub cities after the recession. JIA took its fair share of capacity cutbacks. However, we have been very slow to bounce back, even as the local population expanded, the economy grew and large companies established sizable offices in the metro.
Even with a few new options this year, JIA traffic numbers are tracking slightly below last year. Given record air traffic across the US, a good local economy, and larger population base, can anyone offer any insight as to why our local ridership numbers are so stagnant?
Lack of air service is definitely a hindrance to growth.
I wonder if some of it has to do with willingness to drive to Orlando for lower fares and more direct flight/international options? When I lived in Austin, a lot of people were willing to drive to DFW for the same reasons. Austin has grown astronomically since then, of course.
I think this is true in especially the southern portions of Jacksonville and St. Johns County.
Quote from: Sonic101 on October 09, 2017, 06:03:36 PM
Whenever I look up flights from Detroit to Jax, Orlando is typically around $75 cheaper, and that's not comparing it to the expensive DTW->JAX direct flight. I really would like to know why this is since I would much prefer JIA. Lack of competition, lack of demand, high airport fees, idk? *shrug*
All of this, except the high airport fees. MCO is a much more competitive market and (as a percentage) more of a leisure market. Delta has to compete with Frontier, Southwest, and Spirit out of MCO, as well as Allegiant from Sanford to a few cities in Michigan. JAX-DTW's non-stop on Delta is the only direct to DTW, and a pretty business-heavy route (Anecdotally from when I've flown it).
Similar question, and the answer to it also answers your question:
Q: Why can I stay at a Fairfield Inn for $89/night and get free Wifi, but the $600/Night St. Regis makes me pay?
A: Because they can. People Staying at the St Regis aren't budget travelers. They are either Business Travelers with REALLY good expense accounts (so $20 for internet is nothing), or Leisure Travelers who clearly have disposable income (and $20 for internet is also nothing).
Quote from: Sonic101 on October 09, 2017, 06:03:36 PM
Whenever I look up flights from Detroit to Jax, Orlando is typically around $75 cheaper, and that's not comparing it to the expensive DTW->JAX direct flight. I really would like to know why this is since I would much prefer JIA. Lack of competition, lack of demand, high airport fees, idk? *shrug*
I'm flying back to W Michigan for the holidays and you are correct about cheaper flights through Orlando. Even stranger, though, if I fly from JAX to GRR through ORD, it is cheaper than if I had just flow to ORD using the exact same flight!
Honestly, I'm worried for the airport if Brightline expands to Jax and more people start taking the train to the Orlando Airport.
Quote from: Sonic101 on October 11, 2017, 09:41:02 AM
Honestly, I'm worried for the airport if Brightline expands to Jax and more people start taking the train to the Orlando Airport.
That is a good point. I flew out of Orlando exactly once and it didn't end up saving me money due to the cost of parking my car for a week, plus the not insubstantial inconvenience of 2-hours of driving before and after my flight. I wouldn't do it again even if it was cheaper - but if I could take a train right to the airport, why not?
On the other hand I really don't see that many people actually doing that. Brightline is and always has been a real estate venture more than an actual transportation solution. I doubt the train schedule will be regular enough to plan flights around.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 11, 2017, 11:24:32 AM
Quote from: Sonic101 on October 11, 2017, 09:41:02 AM
Honestly, I'm worried for the airport if Brightline expands to Jax and more people start taking the train to the Orlando Airport.
That is a good point. I flew out of Orlando exactly once and it didn't end up saving me money due to the cost of parking my car for a week, plus the not insubstantial inconvenience of 2-hours of driving before and after my flight. I wouldn't do it again even if it was cheaper - but if I could take a train right to the airport, why not?
On the other hand I really don't see that many people actually doing that. Brightline is and always has been a real estate venture more than an actual transportation solution. I doubt the train schedule will be regular enough to plan flights around.
Plus the tickets on Brightline to Orlando are not cheap either.
Brightline's headways will be every 60 minutes. However, the cost of tickets will eliminate any cost savings gained by driving to Orlando to save on air fare. As someone who has flown out of all of these airports regularly over the years, you really save money driving to Orlando when you're buying multiple tickets and you're willing to park your car off airport property. If it's just one or two people flying, you're better off going out of JAX and saving yourself the 2 hour drive.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 11, 2017, 12:10:33 PM
Brightline's headways will be every 60 minutes. However, the cost of tickets will eliminate any cost savings gained by driving to Orlando to save on air fare. As someone who has flown out of all of these airports regularly over the years, you really save money driving to Orlando when you're buying multiple tickets and you're willing to park your car off airport property. If it's just one or two people flying, you're better off going out of JAX and saving yourself the 2 hour drive.
It also depends on where you are going and direct flights. If you are flying to San Francisco, there may be cost and time savings due to layovers.
True. Last year I drove down to Orlando to take a 2 hour direct flight to Santo Domingo. Although the costs were comparable, if I flew out of Jax, the connecting flights and associated layovers would have stretched the travel time out to 11 hours.
QuoteI think PHIL could be a dark horse. Lots of high tech (birthplace of ENIAC, first digital computer and then there is Ben Franklin and his kite :) ) and major urban core research center (University City), robust higher education (I think second only to Boston in number of colleges/universities in the surrounding area with one Ivy League school, multiple medical and engineering schools, top notch liberal arts schools, etc.), great public transit, diverse population, full of culture, big city benefits with easier livability vs. NYC, large metro area, cheaper living than the other major NE urban centers, well connected international airport and nicely in-between NYC, WASH and BOS (via Amtrak high speed Acela WASH-PHL-NYC-BOS corridor). Also, top tier corporate HQ's including Comcast. Probably wouldn't hurt politically that at least 3 states (PA, NJ, and DEL) would all benefit from this spot and maybe, also MD. One thing I believe Amazon might want to factor in is time zones, especially if it plans to grow in Europe. This could further benefit an East Coast site.
Moody's analysis supports my quote above, picking Philadelphia and Austin as best picks! I give Philly the nod due to geography and time zones, just like the study does :).
QuoteIn a new analysis published Thursday, Moody's economists Mark Zandi and Adam Ozimek found that Austin, Texas and Philadelphia meets Amazon's desires for its new HQ best, with Atlanta, Pittsburgh, and Rochester, New York not far behind.
Read it here:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/austin-philadelphia-best-places-amazons-new-headquarters-moodys-says-161422680.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/austin-philadelphia-best-places-amazons-new-headquarters-moodys-says-161422680.html)
Quote
Geographic wild card
If the geography category is included, Philadelphia moves from third place to first place and Pittsburgh moves up to second place. The geography category includes distance from Amazon's existing headquarters as one variable. Arguably, Amazon will want to diversify into a different labor market as much as possible; therefore we award points for metro areas farther away from Amazon's Seattle headquarters. In addition, we award points to regions based on our subjective assessment of the regional advantages. The Northeast scores the highest because of the access to the economically important Northeast Corridor and the political power center of Washington DC. Finally, this category awards points for the number of Amazon fulfillment centers in the state and distance to Jeff Bezos' closest non-Seattle homes. Taken together, geography helps bring Pennsylvania's two metro areas to the top of the list.
and more here:
https://www.economy.com/dismal/analysis/commentary/298321/Where-Amazons-Next-Headquarters-Should-Go/ (https://www.economy.com/dismal/analysis/commentary/298321/Where-Amazons-Next-Headquarters-Should-Go/)
Rochester?
I do understand it has an outstanding tech-oriented university. But if airport access is a critical of a piece as we're assuming in dismissing Jacksonville's chances, it seems berserk to consider Rochester a serious candidate.
Rochester? Who's from that city that also happens to be employed at Moody's?
Considering the reports that Toronto and Boston have both been discussed heavily by Amazon execs in the last few years, they must certainly be high on the list. I agree about Philly being a great match, and Austin (tech + Whole Foods) and Pittsburgh (tech + two Amazon execs from there) as well.
That said, if it ain't coming to Jax I would personally love to see Baltimore get this.
Toronto and Boston are two of the most expensive cities to do business in North America. You have to pay more for everything there, salaries, real estate, taxes...... Not sure if that will influence Amazon but you can't pay $50,000 there to anyone but a first year employee.
I like Baltimore too. Could see that getting it.
Lol, a Georgia city is offering to change its name to Amazon if it's selected...
QuoteMetros go wild in grab for Amazon HQ2
Becoming the home of HQ2, you need to realize, is not just some heavyweight business recruitment event. Nor is it simply, as one newspaper has named it, "the mother of all bidding wars."
It is a metropolitan anointing.
Already, we see dozens upon dozens of metros on steroids, employing a one-upmanship in marketing muscle, financial preening and political machismo.
We have a bevy of metros that all claim to have established "war rooms" with the sole mission of figuring out the right mojo to convince Amazon to come their way.
Detroit's war room has some 40 folks around the clock in a quest lead by Quicken Loans founder and city savior Dan Gilbert. "Amazon HQ2 Team Pittsburgh" -- as it has been dubbed -- operates its war room out of office space in Two PNC Plaza Downtown donated by the bank. Even Tulsa's got one.
Some metros feel obligated to throw their hat into the HQ2 ring even if they are not at their best at the moment. Gary, Ind., says it's in the game even as it fights Rust Belt fatigue. St. Louis says it should be The One, suggesting to Amazon its arrival would serve as a renaissance to a metro area hard hit by racial tensions.
Tucson gets the early novelty award by sending Bezos the city's trademark saguaro cactus as a gift. It was returned. But probably not forgotten.
Best yet (or most absurd), a new town born in 2016 and named Stonecrest in the Atlanta suburbs has offered to change its name to Amazon and will pony up 345 free acres for HQ2.
All this and much, much more around the country is viewed with shock, awe and some amusement by Craig Richard, the CEO of Tampa Hillsborough Economic Development Corp. In a salute to Florida's recent battle with Mother Nature, he calls the race of HQ2 our "Hurricane Amazon." It's a Cat 6 event, he said, looking for new ways to grasp its scope.
"This is like putting together a bid for the Super Bowl in three weeks," Richard said.
Full article: http://www.theledger.com/news/20171015/metros-go-wild-in-grab-for-amazon-hq2
Losing its soul to gain the whole world...
Quote from: thelakelander on October 15, 2017, 12:13:41 PM
Lol, a Georgia city is offering to change its name to Amazon if it's selected...
QuoteMetros go wild in grab for Amazon HQ2
Becoming the home of HQ2, you need to realize, is not just some heavyweight business recruitment event. Nor is it simply, as one newspaper has named it, "the mother of all bidding wars."
It is a metropolitan anointing.
Already, we see dozens upon dozens of metros on steroids, employing a one-upmanship in marketing muscle, financial preening and political machismo.
We have a bevy of metros that all claim to have established "war rooms" with the sole mission of figuring out the right mojo to convince Amazon to come their way.
Detroit's war room has some 40 folks around the clock in a quest lead by Quicken Loans founder and city savior Dan Gilbert. "Amazon HQ2 Team Pittsburgh" -- as it has been dubbed -- operates its war room out of office space in Two PNC Plaza Downtown donated by the bank. Even Tulsa's got one.
Some metros feel obligated to throw their hat into the HQ2 ring even if they are not at their best at the moment. Gary, Ind., says it's in the game even as it fights Rust Belt fatigue. St. Louis says it should be The One, suggesting to Amazon its arrival would serve as a renaissance to a metro area hard hit by racial tensions.
Tucson gets the early novelty award by sending Bezos the city's trademark saguaro cactus as a gift. It was returned. But probably not forgotten.
Best yet (or most absurd), a new town born in 2016 and named Stonecrest in the Atlanta suburbs has offered to change its name to Amazon and will pony up 345 free acres for HQ2.
All this and much, much more around the country is viewed with shock, awe and some amusement by Craig Richard, the CEO of Tampa Hillsborough Economic Development Corp. In a salute to Florida's recent battle with Mother Nature, he calls the race of HQ2 our "Hurricane Amazon." It's a Cat 6 event, he said, looking for new ways to grasp its scope.
"This is like putting together a bid for the Super Bowl in three weeks," Richard said.
Full article: http://www.theledger.com/news/20171015/metros-go-wild-in-grab-for-amazon-hq2
For a Maryland perspective on chances for Baltimore (light rail and direct highway access to vibrant airport, nearby urban core and high caliber universities) see a Washington Post article in Sunday's edition (Metro section). Authors Christopher Summers and Stephen J. K. Walters suggest tax concessions combined with a waiting campus (final completion in 2019) being finalized by Under Armour's Kevin Plank present a legitimate possibility. For those of you watching closely....I have no prediction.
This whole thing seems ridiculous. Why does Amazon even need an "HQ2" with 50,000 employees?
Walmart employs 18,000 people at their headquarters in Bentonville with a revenue of $486 Billion and Amazon needs a second headquarters with 50,000 people to sell crap online? Their revenue is only $136 Billion and what Walmart does is definitely more difficult.
Oh yeah, and now that Walmart plans to ramp up online sales Amazon better watch out.
It just seems unrealistic to me. I think Amazon likes to stay in the news and this has everyone talking about how fast they are growing and how they will dominate the market.
Quote from: Lunican on October 16, 2017, 09:41:00 AM
This whole thing seems ridiculous. Why does Amazon even need an "HQ2" with 50,000 employees?
Walmart employs 18,000 people at their headquarters in Bentonville with a revenue of $486 Billion and Amazon needs a second headquarters with 50,000 people to sell crap online? Their revenue is only $136 Billion and what Walmart does is definitely more difficult.
Oh yeah, and now that Walmart plans to ramp up online sales Amazon better watch out.
It just seems unrealistic to me. I think Amazon likes to stay in the news and this has everyone talking about how fast they are growing and how they will dominate the market.
Amazon is way more than just an e-store front.
The own Audible, Twitch, Whole Foods, have one of the largest data center solutions on Earth, Kindle tablets and services, Music, Video, production studios....and on and on.
Wal-mart is a small operation compared to the breadth of Amazon.
Looks like some cities may realize the futility of running in this "horse race." San Antonio has withdrawn, apparently not willing to sell itself out with unaffordable incentives.
Quote
San Antonio's economic development leaders explored a potential bid to attempt to woo Amazon's second headquarters, but have decided not to submit the paperwork that's due on Oct. 19, officials confirmed to the Business Journal.
Amazon.com Inc. put out an open call for cities across North America to pitch the technology giant, economic incentive packages in hand, in an open request for proposals last month. The Seattle-based company seeks to bring 50,000 new jobs to the market it chooses for its so-called HQ2.
"After mobilizing our project team of private and public-sector partners, we conducted a robust review as part of our regular proposal development process," Erica Hurtak, spokeswoman for the San Antonio Economic Development Foundation, said in a statement.
Hurtak touted San Antonio's quality of life, affordable housing and current workforce.
"But we can always get better. We determined that as aspirational as we are about our community's potential, we simply wouldn't be highly competitive from a real estate and incentives perspective," Hurtak said.
Mayor Ron Nirenberg and Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff also penned an open letter to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos. For a full copy of the letter click here.
"As aspirational and confident as we are about our community, we're not submitting a formal proposal," the letter said. "It's hard to imagine that a forward-thinking company like Amazon hasn't already selected its preferred location ... blindly giving away the farm isn't our style."
Suggestion that San Antonio would be pulling out of a potential bid for Amazon was first reported by the San Antonio Express-News.
The announcement comes just after Senators Ted Cruz and John Cornyn wrote an open letter to Bezos pitching Texas — though not a particular city — for the new HQ2.
https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2017/10/12/san-antonio-pulls-out-of-pursuit-of-amazons-new.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo (https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2017/10/12/san-antonio-pulls-out-of-pursuit-of-amazons-new.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo)
"Wal-mart is a small operation compared to the breadth of Amazon."
You got that wrong.
With $482 billion in revenue, Wal-Mart sells more than Apple, Amazon and Microsoft put together, according to Fortune's annual ranking of companies by revenue, released yesterday (June 6 2016). It's bigger than the No. 2 company, Exxon Mobil, and No. 3, Apple, combined. Its sales are greater than the GDP of Poland.
Quote from: Lunican on October 16, 2017, 09:41:00 AM
This whole thing seems ridiculous. Why does Amazon even need an "HQ2" with 50,000 employees?
Walmart employs 18,000 people at their headquarters in Bentonville with a revenue of $486 Billion and Amazon needs a second headquarters with 50,000 people to sell crap online? Their revenue is only $136 Billion and what Walmart does is definitely more difficult.
Oh yeah, and now that Walmart plans to ramp up online sales Amazon better watch out.
It just seems unrealistic to me. I think Amazon likes to stay in the news and this has everyone talking about how fast they are growing and how they will dominate the market.
Clearly you have no concept of what it takes to run an e-commerce operation. Fanatics employs hundreds of people at their corporate headquarters in Jacksonville, and they do less than 1 1/100th of the revenue of Amazon at $1b annually. It actually takes quite a lot of people to sell crap online.
Quote from: MusicMan on October 16, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
"Wal-mart is a small operation compared to the breadth of Amazon."
You got that wrong.
With $482 billion in revenue, Wal-Mart sells more than Apple, Amazon and Microsoft put together, according to Fortune's annual ranking of companies by revenue, released yesterday (June 6 2016). It's bigger than the No. 2 company, Exxon Mobil, and No. 3, Apple, combined. Its sales are greater than the GDP of Poland.
I said breadth, Music man. Not revenue.
Wal-mart is a very narrow company for its size. Its overwhelming focus is on its retail stores. Amazon has an incredibly wide scope of business from e-commerce, data centers, cloud computing, music/movie streaming, Whole Foods, Twitch, Kindle, Audible, etc.....
I hear ya. How many individual products are sold at Wal Mart? Food, clothing, housewares, furniture, sporting goods, media, TV's, pharmaceuticals, gasoline, electronics, plants and landscape items, crafting goods, books, pet supplies ........................
Pretty broad consumer list there. I hear they are going to be offering e commerce soon, correct?
These fields :e-commerce, data centers, cloud computing, music/movie streaming, Whole Foods, Twitch, Kindle, Audible, etc.....
are incredibly competitive.
You are missing my point. The corporate structure needed to support a retail chain (regardless of the range of items they sell) is much more narrow versus a company with a highly diverse business model with dozens of divisions and broad in scope.
Amazon revenue: $136 billion.
Kroger revenue: $115 billion.
Not much difference in revenue but vastly different in terms of diversity and scope of operations. Would you presume Kroger needs the same HQ requirements as does Amazon just based on revenue?
Good coverage of Jax's bid effort. Full article at:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-making-a-pitch-for-amazons-new-headquarters-how-will-it-stack-up (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-making-a-pitch-for-amazons-new-headquarters-how-will-it-stack-up)
Quote
The bid is due Thursday, but Curry's office is not saying what's in it, such as the proposed sites or taxpayer incentives that would be offered.
A mayor's office spokeswoman also declined to say which entities were assisting in crafting the bid or when the city will officially submit its package to Amazon.
However, JAX Chamber, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, Jacksonville Aviation Authority and city utility JEA say they are involved.
Curry said in a statement Oct. 6 he believed "Jacksonville has all the attributes that make for a great place to do business — including a strong labor force, a low cost of doing business and a great quality of life."
Curry did not specify if he would include the labor force extending into other North Florida counties.
I really, really hope some of the quotes in the article are just PR people trying to keep things mum before the submittal. If not, I have a feeling we are looking at a subpar proposal. I'll keep my mouth closed for now.
New Jersey is offering $7 billion in tax incentives.
I am curious if Amazon will take a location that is not the highest bidder.
I don't think they'll choose the offer with the most incentives
They might not select the one with the largest offer but the place they'll pick will have to bring billions to the table.
Interesting Fortune article actually mentions Jacksonville, but only in context of our difficulty competing with metro's over 4 million people. Still liking Philly as it could suck in talent and more from surrounding NYC and Baltimore/Washington DC without too much trouble (they are all within commuting limits, albeit a stretch for some, on Amtrak) giving Amazon the best of all worlds.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-hq2-likely-one-six-222812757.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-hq2-likely-one-six-222812757.html)
QuoteWhile proposals have come from all over the map, it is unlikely that any metro area with fewer than 4 million people will make the grade, according to Everest Group, a Dallas-based consulting and research firm.
Only cities of that size are likely to have the both the basic infrastructure and base of skilled employees to supply Amazon's needs. has said the new location could eventually employ 50,000 skilled people with average annual salaries of more than $100,000. These are not blue-collar jobs, and filling skilled jobs in these numbers is not easy, Eric Simonson, managing partner of Everest's research group, told Fortune.
Given that, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, New York, and Washington D.C. will likely be Amazon's top candidates, according to Everest.
....It would be difficult for cities like Pittsburgh, Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando, Charlotte, Cincinnati, or Denver to scale up to 50,000 skilled workers over the next decade, according to Everest.
Yesterday the Nashville mayor announced a proposal for a $5.2B mass transit plan that will include 5 light rail lines, BRT and even a new tunnel in downtown. Speculation that this is to supplement their HQ2 bid.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 18, 2017, 02:42:09 PM
Good coverage of Jax's bid effort. Full article at:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-making-a-pitch-for-amazons-new-headquarters-how-will-it-stack-up (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-making-a-pitch-for-amazons-new-headquarters-how-will-it-stack-up)
Quote
The bid is due Thursday, but Curry's office is not saying what's in it, such as the proposed sites or taxpayer incentives that would be offered.
A mayor's office spokeswoman also declined to say which entities were assisting in crafting the bid or when the city will officially submit its package to Amazon.
However, JAX Chamber, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, Jacksonville Aviation Authority and city utility JEA say they are involved.
Curry said in a statement Oct. 6 he believed "Jacksonville has all the attributes that make for a great place to do business — including a strong labor force, a low cost of doing business and a great quality of life."
Curry did not specify if he would include the labor force extending into other North Florida counties.
Nice. Article also from the TU but not really any new info other than they say the bid has already been submitted.
http://jacksonville.com/metro/business/2017-10-18/jacksonville-submits-formal-bid-land-second-amazon-headquarters
Well, Personally, I am glad the Mayor acted on my suggestion, by e-mail and phone call, the day this RFP was announced, to go for it.
All Hail Music Man.
Would it be great if we made a short list ? Yes.
If we were actually chosen? I'm not sure if great is the right word but it would definitely change Jacksonville forever, and I believe mostly for the good.
I wonder how many cities or metros teamed up? It would seem that nearby metros like Tampa and Orlando would be better off combining their efforts, incentives and numbers.
Quote from: Jim on October 18, 2017, 04:08:20 PM
New Jersey is offering $7 billion in tax incentives.
I am curious if Amazon will take a location that is not the highest bidder.
There's a decent chance the highest bidder will win, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is solely because of the incentives. Newark, Baltimore, and some of the other cities that are putting together major incentive packages already tick a lot of the boxes that Amazon is looking for.
There's a good article on Time, highlighting the hidden public costs on landing Amazon.
Quote from: Jim on October 18, 2017, 04:08:20 PM
New Jersey is offering $7 billion in tax incentives.
If Amazon took NJ's offer, they could possibly have their cake and eat it too: Maximum incentives and either NYC (via Newark/Jersey City/etc.) or Philly (via Camden/Cherry Hill/etc.) as their sandbox since NJ has both of their 'burbs covered - just a bridge over a river :).
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 19, 2017, 01:46:30 PM
Quote from: Jim on October 18, 2017, 04:08:20 PM
New Jersey is offering $7 billion in tax incentives.
If Amazon took NJ's offer, they could possibly have their cake and eat it too: Maximum incentives and either NYC (via Newark/Jersey City/etc.) or Philly (via Camden/Cherry Hill/etc.) as their sandbox since NJ has both of their 'burbs covered - just a bridge over a river :).
Just to be clear, the $7B from NJ is specifically for Newark. I believe the general state portion was $5B. And yes, this offer on the surface looks very strong.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 18, 2017, 10:50:38 PM
I wonder how many cities or metros teamed up? It would seem that nearby metros like Tampa and Orlando would be better off combining their efforts, incentives and numbers.
Buffalo+Rochester have submitted together.
http://innovationtrail.org/post/rochester-and-buffalo-submit-joint-amazon-bid
I don't think it's finalized but Detroit and Windsor were working together.
And many small cities that are part of the same metro are doing the same, since that is what Amazon requested (but is mostly being ignored)
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 19, 2017, 03:50:21 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 19, 2017, 01:46:30 PM
Quote from: Jim on October 18, 2017, 04:08:20 PM
New Jersey is offering $7 billion in tax incentives.
If Amazon took NJ's offer, they could possibly have their cake and eat it too: Maximum incentives and either NYC (via Newark/Jersey City/etc.) or Philly (via Camden/Cherry Hill/etc.) as their sandbox since NJ has both of their 'burbs covered - just a bridge over a river :).
Just to be clear, the $7B from NJ is specifically for Newark. I believe the general state portion was $5B. And yes, this offer on the surface looks very strong.
"You know what everyone in NJ has in common. ..... They want out of NJ." There is a reason they would have to attach $7B to their offer.
https://www-bizjournals-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2017/09/11/amazon-picks-atlanta-for-new-logistics-hub-locates.amp.html
^This is what JAX should've tried to make happen. Not a pie-in-the-sky $5billion tax break long-shot. It's the many medium to small build-ups over time that grow cities evenly and attract the big dogs. No outrageous public competition needed. Also, with the fact that the city has, almost, direct access to a submarine data cable servicing multiple countries further pushes the notion that we should be trying to shoot for parts of the beast such as AWS and not necessarily the whole enchilada.
Amazon literally just added 3000+ jobs to the local economy. Thats more than good enough for a starting point to grow those employment numbers over a given time with an entity as large and diversified as Amazon.
Does anybody have a bizjournal subscription that can add some insight? I just realized mine has expired and I don't plan to renew.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/12/06/hq2-on-the-river-downtown-momentum-and-barnett.html
Quote from: BenderRodriguez on October 22, 2017, 04:51:32 PM
https://www-bizjournals-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2017/09/11/amazon-picks-atlanta-for-new-logistics-hub-locates.amp.html
^This is what JAX should've tried to make happen. Not a pie-in-the-sky $5billion tax break long-shot. It's the many medium to small build-ups over time that grow cities evenly and attract the big dogs. No outrageous public competition needed. Also, with the fact that the city has, almost, direct access to a submarine data cable servicing multiple countries further pushes the notion that we should be trying to shoot for parts of the beast such as AWS and not necessarily the whole enchilada.
Amazon literally just added 3000+ jobs to the local economy. Thats more than good enough for a starting point to grow those employment numbers over a given time with an entity as large and diversified as Amazon.
I'm sure they were trying. And it's not like Jax hasn't been getting its base hits with smaller Amazon facilities. 5000 jobs from the two fulfillment centers that just opened and there was speculation on two other sites that might be Amazon.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/amazon-plans-to-create-5-000-jacksonville-jobs
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on December 12, 2017, 12:33:31 PM
Does anybody have a bizjournal subscription that can add some insight? I just realized mine has expired and I don't plan to renew.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/12/06/hq2-on-the-river-downtown-momentum-and-barnett.html
I'd love to have those jobs come to JAX but good lord, Atlantic Station? That is a congested, traffic-cluster of retail. I mean, I'm envisioning putting it in the middle of SJTC on Black Friday. Why would they pick this place out of all the places in Atlanta that they could have chosen?
Quote from: TimmyB on December 12, 2017, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on December 12, 2017, 12:33:31 PM
Does anybody have a bizjournal subscription that can add some insight? I just realized mine has expired and I don't plan to renew.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/12/06/hq2-on-the-river-downtown-momentum-and-barnett.html
I'd love to have those jobs come to JAX but good lord, Atlantic Station? That is a congested, traffic-cluster of retail. I mean, I'm envisioning putting it in the middle of SJTC on Black Friday. Why would they pick this place out of all the places in Atlanta that they could have chosen?
Easy access to Interstate, rail, and air infrastructure, as well as proximity to talent, among other things. Probably.
Almost any place in Atlanta could be compared to the Town Center on Black Friday, so it's evidently not much of a hurdle for Porche, Mercedes, Amazon or any of the other major employers who have chosen to establish a significant presence in Atlanta in the last 10 years.
Quote from: JBTripper on December 14, 2017, 11:33:16 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 12, 2017, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on December 12, 2017, 12:33:31 PM
Does anybody have a bizjournal subscription that can add some insight? I just realized mine has expired and I don't plan to renew.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/12/06/hq2-on-the-river-downtown-momentum-and-barnett.html
I'd love to have those jobs come to JAX but good lord, Atlantic Station? That is a congested, traffic-cluster of retail. I mean, I'm envisioning putting it in the middle of SJTC on Black Friday. Why would they pick this place out of all the places in Atlanta that they could have chosen?
Easy access to Interstate, rail, and air infrastructure, as well as proximity to talent, among other things. Probably.
Almost any place in Atlanta could be compared to the Town Center on Black Friday, so it's evidently not much of a hurdle for Porche, Mercedes, Amazon or any of the other major employers who have chosen to establish a significant presence in Atlanta in the last 10 years.
Porsche is right next to ATL. MB is out in Dunwoody, right on 285. Those both make sense, to me. FAR more than putting Amazon into Atlantic Station. I don't question them being in Atlanta. I would want to be there, as well, with all that it has going for it. But, as I was saying, NOT in the middle of a retail zone.
So this is the pitch location. I kind of figured. I see there's a covered stadium in the plan as well.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-offers-downtown-site-for-amazon-hq2
Video here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/12/14/jacksonville-unveils-pitch-video-for-amazons-hq2.html
Quote from: martt12 on December 14, 2017, 04:14:44 PM
So this is the pitch location. I kind of figured. I see there's a covered stadium in the plan as well.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-offers-downtown-site-for-amazon-hq2
Found a working link:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/video/city-offers-200-acres-downtown-for-amazon-hq2
Personally, I think it looks interesting.
Not sure why the stadiums have those weird... covers? but otherwise the idea of so massively expanding downtown is intriguing, provided that growth could be maintained and connected to our existing urban core.
Pure YouTube link, just in case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsTkC8jIQI
Thanks martt and bender for sharing.
So...."shovel-ready site" means it's ready for remediation? I actually think the video is quite good. Informative, straightforward, not too cheesy...I've seen some much worse HQ2 pitch videos and some about the same quality...nothing significantly more impressive.
Don't get your hopes up but nice video.
Agreed. Nice job by the City putting that together.
Like I said earlier in the thread, even if the City doesn't get it, it is still a great free PR opportunity. If Jax can somehow make it onto a shortlist of finalists, it will put the City on a lot of corporate and development radars.
I love the YouTube video. If you look at my proposal from earlier in this thread (Ocober 1) they pretty much "stole" my ideas point by point.
"
Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
October 01, 2017, 12:20:58 PM »
I think Jacksonville absolutely should be pursuing this, regardless of their perceived chances of success.
Why JAX?
1. It's Florida. Great weather. Great beaches. No state income tax. Plenty of vacant land.
2. UF, FSU, and UNF. That's a respectable list and all within 160 miles, a short drive or flight.
3. JAX International Airport. A really nice facility and primed for expansion for more international flights.
4. The St Johns river and Jaxport. Literally unlimited opportunities for expansion and recreation.
5. The Jaguars and Shad Khan. An NFL franchise and one of the most dynamic owners. Can anyone say "Amazon.com Stadium?"
6. The Players Championship and the PGA. Another opportunity for a world class corporate tie in/sponsorship.
7. I 10 an I 95. Add CSX and you have a transportation and logistics hub that is well established but not too crowded.
8. Amazing health care infrastructure in place. Mayo, Baptist, UF Health Proton therapy, MD Anderson, . it's a really impressive list.
9. Plenty of large vacant buildings downtown and plenty of vacant parcels. Add to that the impending demolition of the old court house
and surrounding area .......
10. I could easily see Bezos partnering with Elon Musk to design and build a fleet of autonomous 15-20 passenger vans that connect his
downtown campus. Once in service he could sell the vans to municipalities around the globe.
11. Haskell. A world class design build firm right here in Jacksonville ready to take on any construction task Amazon could put forth.
12. Unless I'm mistaken , there are more Fortune 500 Companies in Jax than any other Florida city.
13. No real competition here. If Amazon picked Jacksonville they would immediately be THE PLAYER in North East Florida, and perhaps
the most important corporation in the state. That's a lot of power and influence and from here they could make a lot happen, with
very little local interference. Politically, they could impact national and local elections if desired.
14. Be honest. Jax is pretty much a blank slate in it's current form. There are few cities this old with this much upside.
15. Besides Detroit, there is no place Amazon can go where the cost of operation is going to be lower than here. Quality real estate for
this type of project is cheap and plentiful. Wages in Florida are lower than most of the competing areas. New Jersey? You'll have to
pay double for each person so they can afford to live nearby. Not here.
Add it all up.
WE WIN!!!! "
I mean every single point I made is in the video. And I called the freakin Mayors office the day the RPF went public.
You can thank me later 8)
Quote from: MusicMan on December 15, 2017, 09:52:48 AM
I love the YouTube video. If you look at my proposal from earlier in this thread (Ocober 1) they pretty much "stole" my ideas point by point.
"
Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
October 01, 2017, 12:20:58 PM »
I think Jacksonville absolutely should be pursuing this, regardless of their perceived chances of success.
Why JAX?
1. It's Florida. Great weather. Great beaches. No state income tax. Plenty of vacant land.
2. UF, FSU, and UNF. That's a respectable list and all within 160 miles, a short drive or flight.
3. JAX International Airport. A really nice facility and primed for expansion for more international flights.
4. The St Johns river and Jaxport. Literally unlimited opportunities for expansion and recreation.
5. The Jaguars and Shad Khan. An NFL franchise and one of the most dynamic owners. Can anyone say "Amazon.com Stadium?"
6. The Players Championship and the PGA. Another opportunity for a world class corporate tie in/sponsorship.
7. I 10 an I 95. Add CSX and you have a transportation and logistics hub that is well established but not too crowded.
8. Amazing health care infrastructure in place. Mayo, Baptist, UF Health Proton therapy, MD Anderson, . it's a really impressive list.
9. Plenty of large vacant buildings downtown and plenty of vacant parcels. Add to that the impending demolition of the old court house
and surrounding area .......
10. I could easily see Bezos partnering with Elon Musk to design and build a fleet of autonomous 15-20 passenger vans that connect his
downtown campus. Once in service he could sell the vans to municipalities around the globe.
11. Haskell. A world class design build firm right here in Jacksonville ready to take on any construction task Amazon could put forth.
12. Unless I'm mistaken , there are more Fortune 500 Companies in Jax than any other Florida city.
13. No real competition here. If Amazon picked Jacksonville they would immediately be THE PLAYER in North East Florida, and perhaps
the most important corporation in the state. That's a lot of power and influence and from here they could make a lot happen, with
very little local interference. Politically, they could impact national and local elections if desired.
14. Be honest. Jax is pretty much a blank slate in it's current form. There are few cities this old with this much upside.
15. Besides Detroit, there is no place Amazon can go where the cost of operation is going to be lower than here. Quality real estate for
this type of project is cheap and plentiful. Wages in Florida are lower than most of the competing areas. New Jersey? You'll have to
pay double for each person so they can afford to live nearby. Not here.
Add it all up.
WE WIN!!!! "
I mean every single point I made is in the video. And I called the freakin Mayors office the day the RPF went public.
You can thank me later 8)
10. I could easily see Bezos partnering with Elon Musk to design and build a fleet of autonomous 15-20 passenger vans that connect his downtown campus. Once in service he could sell the vans to municipalities around the globeI need to watch the video again - I don't remember mention of Elon Musk.
They specifically mention a fleet of autonomous vehicles connecting the downtown campus and nearby neighborhoods. I mention Musk because he is on the same level as Bezos in terms of 'visionary entrepreneur.'
Love the use of JAX. Becoming more popular.
Lol the AV stuff is JTA's Skyway plan that they've been pushing for a few years now. It has nothing to do with Amazon. They already have a goal to run something down Bay. Hopefully, it won't turn out like what's shown in the video. We're going to be disappointed if Jax's transit plan turns out to be whatever (doesn't matter if it's AV, buses or rail) mixed in traffic with cars.
Quote from: MusicMan on December 15, 2017, 09:52:48 AM
Why JAX?
1. It's Florida. Great weather. Great beaches. No state income tax. Plenty of vacant land.
2. UF, FSU, and UNF. That's a respectable list and all within 160 miles, a short drive or flight.
3. JAX International Airport. A really nice facility and primed for expansion for more international flights.
4. The St Johns river and Jaxport. Literally unlimited opportunities for expansion and recreation.
5. The Jaguars and Shad Khan. An NFL franchise and one of the most dynamic owners. Can anyone say "Amazon.com Stadium?"
6. The Players Championship and the PGA. Another opportunity for a world class corporate tie in/sponsorship.
7. I 10 an I 95. Add CSX and you have a transportation and logistics hub that is well established but not too crowded.
8. Amazing health care infrastructure in place. Mayo, Baptist, UF Health Proton therapy, MD Anderson, . it's a really impressive list.
9. Plenty of large vacant buildings downtown and plenty of vacant parcels. Add to that the impending demolition of the old court house
and surrounding area .......
10. I could easily see Bezos partnering with Elon Musk to design and build a fleet of autonomous 15-20 passenger vans that connect his
downtown campus. Once in service he could sell the vans to municipalities around the globe.
11. Haskell. A world class design build firm right here in Jacksonville ready to take on any construction task Amazon could put forth. As long as it's tilt up.
12. Unless I'm mistaken , there are more Fortune 500 Companies in Jax than any other Florida city. Technically true, but still nope.
13. No real competition here. If Amazon picked Jacksonville they would immediately be THE PLAYER in North East Florida, and perhaps
the most important corporation in the state. That's a lot of power and influence and from here they could make a lot happen, with
very little local interference. Politically, they could impact national and local elections if desired.
14. Be honest. Jax is pretty much a blank slate in it's current form. There are few cities this old with this much upside.
15. Besides Detroit, there is no place Amazon can go where the cost of operation is going to be lower than here. Quality real estate for
this type of project is cheap and plentiful. Wages in Florida are lower than most of the competing areas. New Jersey? You'll have to
pay double for each person so they can afford to live nearby. Not here.
Add it all up.
WE WIN!!!! "
There. I fixed it for you.
Watch the link Captain. You want me to quote it for you?
Quote from: MusicMan on December 15, 2017, 09:52:48 AM
I love the YouTube video. If you look at my proposal from earlier in this thread (Ocober 1) they pretty much "stole" my ideas point by point.
"
Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
October 01, 2017, 12:20:58 PM »
I think Jacksonville absolutely should be pursuing this, regardless of their perceived chances of success.
Why JAX?
1. It's Florida. Great weather. Great beaches. No state income tax. Plenty of vacant land.
2. UF, FSU, and UNF. That's a respectable list and all within 160 miles, a short drive or flight.
3. JAX International Airport. A really nice facility and primed for expansion for more international flights.
4. The St Johns river and Jaxport. Literally unlimited opportunities for expansion and recreation.
5. The Jaguars and Shad Khan. An NFL franchise and one of the most dynamic owners. Can anyone say "Amazon.com Stadium?"
6. The Players Championship and the PGA. Another opportunity for a world class corporate tie in/sponsorship.
7. I 10 an I 95. Add CSX and you have a transportation and logistics hub that is well established but not too crowded.
8. Amazing health care infrastructure in place. Mayo, Baptist, UF Health Proton therapy, MD Anderson, . it's a really impressive list.
9. Plenty of large vacant buildings downtown and plenty of vacant parcels. Add to that the impending demolition of the old court house
and surrounding area .......
10. I could easily see Bezos partnering with Elon Musk to design and build a fleet of autonomous 15-20 passenger vans that connect his
downtown campus. Once in service he could sell the vans to municipalities around the globe.
11. Haskell. A world class design build firm right here in Jacksonville ready to take on any construction task Amazon could put forth.
12. Unless I'm mistaken , there are more Fortune 500 Companies in Jax than any other Florida city.
13. No real competition here. If Amazon picked Jacksonville they would immediately be THE PLAYER in North East Florida, and perhaps
the most important corporation in the state. That's a lot of power and influence and from here they could make a lot happen, with
very little local interference. Politically, they could impact national and local elections if desired.
14. Be honest. Jax is pretty much a blank slate in it's current form. There are few cities this old with this much upside.
15. Besides Detroit, there is no place Amazon can go where the cost of operation is going to be lower than here. Quality real estate for
this type of project is cheap and plentiful. Wages in Florida are lower than most of the competing areas. New Jersey? You'll have to
pay double for each person so they can afford to live nearby. Not here.
Add it all up.
WE WIN!!!! "
I mean every single point I made is in the video. And I called the freakin Mayors office the day the RPF went public.
You can thank me later 8)
Screw it. I'm not waiting. THANKS, MUSICMAN!!! ;)
I don't doubt that's what the video said, I just don't think any of those reasons would appeal to amazon. They aren't in the city building, airport expanding, football/golf sponsoring business. Jax is too much work and we don't have a large enough skilled labor pool.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 08, 2017, 08:51:26 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on September 07, 2017, 12:45:39 PM
Amazon could pretty much buy every vacant building downtown (over 50,000 sf) and completely revitalize Jax.
They could start with 233 West Duval, old JEA building, Vacant and 162,000 sf.
Quote from: MusicMan on September 07, 2017, 08:43:55 PM
If Amazon came here the airport would have multiple International routes within a year.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You really don't get it. Amazon isn't trying to take away from their core business to try to save a city...
Here... Since you like to toot your own horn. I also still agree with my points from back in the day.
I am confused, isn't that the entire area Khan was going to revitalize as well? I thought they had an agreement with the city for the land already.
Quote from: MusicMan on December 15, 2017, 10:41:41 AM
They specifically mention a fleet of autonomous vehicles connecting the downtown campus and nearby neighborhoods. I mention Musk because he is on the same level as Bezos in terms of 'visionary entrepreneur.'
There's a difference between mentioning the city's plans for autonomous vehicles and saying that Bezos can develop special vans he can sell to cities around the world.
The rest of your list was pretty much boilerplate.
Quote from: Dapperdan on December 15, 2017, 01:51:40 PM
I am confused, isn't that the entire area Khan was going to revitalize as well? I thought they had an agreement with the city for the land already.
Nothing has been finalized. They basically have an agreement to negotiate.
"And since you like to toot your own horn"........ More like a vuvuzela...
"There's a difference between mentioning the city's plans for autonomous vehicles and saying that Bezos can develop special vans he can sell to cities around the world.
The rest of your list was pretty much boilerplate."
I'll take that as a compliment!
The jist of my blogging on this is we are somewhat unique, have some well established enterprises already in town and yet still appear as having tremendous upside for a venture like this. 'Boilerplate' or not SOMEONE has to present JAX as a viable landing place for Amazon, and the video I think does a nice job of whetting the appetite for any decision maker at Amazon who had not previously considered it. I also insisted from the beginning that we had to submit something regardless of the chances at landing the gig, so that we would be better positioned to submit for anything similar in the future.
I do love the Tesla products and from my POV it appeared like a great opportunity for Bezos to partner with Tesla/Musk to develop a prototype all Electric, autonomous 15-20 passenger van that, if succesful here, could be put into service in pretty much any major city in the world.
And of course it's entirely possible Bezos would partner with another EV produces...... But with his R and D money he could probably deliver a great product no matter who he works with.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 15, 2017, 12:54:57 PM
We don't have a large enough skilled labor pool.
Super important point here.
We can give away all the "shovel ready" (lol) land in the world to lure 50,000 jobs worth $100k apiece, but if we don't have the talent pool to fill even a fraction of those jobs competitively, Jacksonville probably doesn't make sense for Amazon.
Personally, I hate everything about the idea. Amazon's already got a long history of sucking their employees dry. Imagine what they'd do to Jacksonville if we literally, as the video suggests, give away our city to a corporation and "make Jacksonville and Amazon one."
It's a good video, but it almost comes across as parody.
Keep Jacksonville for the people, not beholden to a corporation.
"For the People" Heh... nice John Morgan reference there.......
Quote from: thelakelander on December 15, 2017, 02:32:58 PM
Quote from: Dapperdan on December 15, 2017, 01:51:40 PM
I am confused, isn't that the entire area Khan was going to revitalize as well? I thought they had an agreement with the city for the land already.
Nothing has been finalized. They basically have an agreement to negotiate.
This design looks eat into about 1/3 of the original Shipyards design. It also suggests filling the retention pond too.
Furthermore, there should be a correction pertaining to our data access point status. JAX does not have a trans-Atlantic cable as the video suggests. Although there are two submarine cables. Those cables service Puerto Rico and South America, respectively.
Also, I think that we are highly undervaluing the potential of Craig Municipal Airport (CRG) and how it goes into this equation in relation to JAX Int'l Airport.
Quote from: BenderRodriguez on December 15, 2017, 09:00:57 PM
Also, I think that we are highly undervaluing the potential of Craig Municipal Airport (CRG) and how it goes into this equation in relation to JAX Int'l Airport.
Very true. For Amazon's private shipping operations? Great point! Maybe Bezos might also be interested in Cecil Spaceport for his Blue Origin operations. hehe, ok getting carried away here. Maybe he'll even buy the Times-Union. And redevelop the land on Riverside Ave!!
Y'all can thank me later!! :P
Quote from: KenFSU on December 15, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
Personally, I hate everything about the idea. Amazon's already got a long history of sucking their employees dry. Imagine what they'd do to Jacksonville if we literally, as the video suggests, give away our city to a corporation and "make Jacksonville and Amazon one."
I think most of the complaining coming from amazon employees are the warehouse and logistics workers. I have several friends who work in HQ1 and they love working for Amazon.
Quote from: BenderRodriguez on December 15, 2017, 09:00:57 PMAlso, I think that we are highly undervaluing the potential of Craig Municipal Airport (CRG) and how it goes into this equation in relation to JAX Int'l Airport.
How? What makes Craig any more special than executive and municipal airports in all the other metros competing for HQ2?
Quote from: thelakelander on December 16, 2017, 04:20:12 PM
Quote from: BenderRodriguez on December 15, 2017, 09:00:57 PMAlso, I think that we are highly undervaluing the potential of Craig Municipal Airport (CRG) and how it goes into this equation in relation to JAX Int'l Airport.
How? What makes Craig any more special than executive and municipal airports in all the other metros competing for HQ2?
Spaceport? Like what ProjectMaximus said:
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on December 16, 2017, 12:31:35 AM
Very true. For Amazon's private shipping operations? Great point! Maybe Bezos might also be interested in Cecil Spaceport for his Blue Origin operations. hehe, ok getting carried away here. Maybe he'll even buy the Times-Union. And redevelop the land on Riverside Ave!!
Y'all can thank me later!! :P
Spaceport...lol
Short-list might come in March.
Amazon specifically asked Jacksonville to submit a proposal:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/video/city-council-vice-president-says-amazon-may-pare-hq-list-by-march
This is good news then. Jacksonville has a real shot at landing this Amazon headquarters! An excitingly excellent possiblity!
Quote from: jaxrox on January 15, 2018, 12:42:01 PM
This is good news then. Jacksonville has a real shot at landing this Amazon headquarters! An excitingly excellent possiblity!
I don't think I'd go that far.
We still don't come close to checking a lot of the boxes.
Yes, they contacted several cities. Similar stories are on the internet from cities all across the country.
Quote from: jaxrox on January 15, 2018, 12:42:01 PM
This is good news then. Jacksonville has a real shot at landing this Amazon headquarters! An excitingly excellent possiblity!
If that happens, I see a surge in short interest in Amazon stock
Quote from: KenFSU on January 15, 2018, 12:12:42 PM
Short-list might come in March.
Amazon specifically asked Jacksonville to submit a proposal:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/video/city-council-vice-president-says-amazon-may-pare-hq-list-by-march
Wait...you mean it wasn't cause MM called and emailed the mayor??
Ha. Max you be funny................
Hey, it's perfect timing since now JEA can throw in their site next door to DCSB.
Now I'm elated Rummell never closed on his 3 year old deal!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: MusicMan on January 15, 2018, 04:21:22 PM
Ha. Max you be funny................
Hey, it's perfect timing since now JEA can throw in their site next door to DCSB.
Now I'm elated Rummell never closed on his 3 year old deal!!!!!!!!!
Maybe this is how the U2C gets that second bridge crossing that JTA keeps putting in those presentations? ;D
Quote from: thelakelander on January 15, 2018, 01:44:08 PM
Yes, they contacted several cities. Similar stories are on the internet from cities all across the country.
So, Ennis, if Jax makes the shortlist . . .
Flint, or nah ? ? ?
Just curious.
And then maybe we can get video of you doing the "
DUVAL !!! " chant, right?
Quote from: thelakelander on January 15, 2018, 01:44:08 PM
Yes, they contacted several cities. Similar stories are on the internet from cities all across the country.
Which cities are alleging they were contacted to bid? Would be a good gauge of at least their perception of Jax at least although I think it is pre-determined to be Boston. One way or another, would be nice publicity if we were in a final 16 or 25 list.
A job paying $50,000 per year in Boston is ridiculously low. They mention that the pay will eventually rise to $100,000 per employee, but not sure that is a guarantee.
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 16, 2018, 06:06:24 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 15, 2018, 01:44:08 PM
Yes, they contacted several cities. Similar stories are on the internet from cities all across the country.
Which cities are alleging they were contacted to bid? Would be a good gauge of at least their perception of Jax at least although I think it is pre-determined to be Boston. One way or another, would be nice publicity if we were in a final 16 or 25 list.
A few similar mentions in random articles over the past couple of months include Boston, Atlanta, Pittsburgh and Minneapolis.
Jax didn't even make the top 20. Hopefully this is a wake up call.
Atlanta
Austin, Tex.
Boston
Chicago
Columbus, Ohio
Dallas
Denver
Indianapolis
Los Angeles
Miami
Montgomery County, Md.
Nashville
Newark
New York
Northern Virginia
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Raleigh, N.C.
Toronto, Canada
Washington, D.C.
Not surprising, at all
Miami and Indy may be surprises but this list basically mirrors most early predictions.
Quote from: CityLife on January 18, 2018, 09:23:32 AM
Jax didn't even make the top 20. Hopefully this is a wake up call.
It won't be. Stubbornness knows no bounds as far as the people in charge are concerned. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon is watching this whole District debacle play out while face palming and rejoicing at the same time since they know that they won't have to go through something similar.
It's time for an actual look in the mirror and figuring out how to become a major player in the new modern world view. We can't do that by what we're currently serving.
the Apple announcement comes just in time!
Quote from: BenderRodriguez on January 18, 2018, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: CityLife on January 18, 2018, 09:23:32 AM
Jax didn't even make the top 20. Hopefully this is a wake up call.
It won't be. Stubbornness knows no bounds as far as the people in charge are concerned. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon is watching this whole District debacle play out while face palming and rejoicing at the same time since they know that they won't have to go through something similar.
It's time for an actual look in the mirror and figuring out how to become a major player in the new modern world view. We can't do that by what we're currently serving.
I doubt Jax was ever on their radar for this. We're way too small, don't have the education base, have no real plans for major transit initiatives and don't have anywhere near the amount of money to give away that many of these larger places are willing to part with. Hopefully, Miami or Atlanta wins. That would improve the chances of something like Brightline being successful and expanding to the point that Jax benefits indirectly.
It should not be a surprise that we didn't make the shortlist. These other cities have a lot more to offer. However, it should be a wake call to the city & citizens to improve our infrastructure downtown.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on January 18, 2018, 09:52:58 AM
the Apple announcement comes just in time!
Time to resurrect this design, Max?
(http://i.cubeupload.com/bAGg6n.png)
I heard a few weeks ago from someone that is very plugged into statewide economic development that Orlando's proposal was substantially better than Jax's, and to not expect Jax to be anywhere close to the short list. Jax is miles behind Orlando and South Florida in terms of innovation, tech, and R&D, so that is not a surprise. It really is a shame that the City and its leaders put so much effort into One Spark, instead of creating something more feasible and sustainable long term. Orlando has long utilized proximity to NASA for spinoff research. Jax should be doing the same with the military. Or partnering more with UF and/or FSU, who both want larger footprints in big cities in the state.
Jax's economy is so reliant on the financial services sector that it could be extremely vulnerable to a major disruption in that field, like Blockchain and Cryptocurrency could potentially have. The City really needs to make some kind of bold, innovative long term move, or it could be left in the dust in 20 years.
No surprise, but I'm happy.
On top of the 200 acres of prime riverfront property that we were ready to give to one of the world's largest, wealthiest corporations for free, can you even imagine how beholden any mid-sized city would be to Amazon if they were to be selected?
Plus, the world is rapidly changing.
Who's to say someone doesn't come around a decade from now and disrupt retail in the same way Amazon has in the last decade.
Sounds like a recipe for Flint 2.0.
No thanks.
Ditto Apple.
I'd much rather attract a handful of diverse, smaller corporations the old fashioned way than beg a megacorp to take over the city and suck its coffers dry.
Miami seems to be the only FL city still in the running...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT1CukwVMAECfxE.jpg)
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/amazon-narrows-list-of-candidates-for-new-headquarters-hq2-to-20.html
Quote from: CityLife on January 18, 2018, 10:28:11 AM
Jax's economy is so reliant on the financial services sector that it could be extremely vulnerable to a major disruption in that field, like Blockchain and Cryptocurrency could potentially have. The City really needs to make some kind of bold, innovative long term move, or it could be left in the dust in 20 years.
Isn't the city being left in the dust right now? Unless the next Amazon/Apple/Google is developed locally, the city seems set to remain in the mid-tier status for quite some time (not that that is necessarily a bad thing) and should be content with and embrace any upgrades such as the Laura St. trio, IKEA, Brightline stopover between Miami and Atlanta, etc. The goal shouldn't be to become like an Atlanta or Orlando, but to become a better Jacksonville.
I think I'm the most surprised about Detroit not making the short list, especially since Columbus did. Dan Gilbert must be pretty angry at that.
What confuses me is that three places in the DC metro made the list. They couldn't just choose one or say 'DC metro'?
Quote from: Todd_Parker on January 18, 2018, 11:14:44 AM
Quote from: CityLife on January 18, 2018, 10:28:11 AM
Jax's economy is so reliant on the financial services sector that it could be extremely vulnerable to a major disruption in that field, like Blockchain and Cryptocurrency could potentially have. The City really needs to make some kind of bold, innovative long term move, or it could be left in the dust in 20 years.
Isn't the city being left in the dust right now? Unless the next Amazon/Apple/Google is developed locally, the city seems set to remain in the mid-tier status for quite some time (not that that is necessarily a bad thing) and should be content with and embrace any upgrades such as the Laura St. trio, IKEA, Brightline stopover between Miami and Atlanta, etc. The goal shouldn't be to become like an Atlanta or Orlando, but to become a better Jacksonville.
100% agree, Todd.
Put continued focus on infrastructure, transit, and general quality of life improvements for the 1.6 million people and thousands of business already in the Jax metro, and businesses will be begging
us to move here, rather than vice versa.
^Bingo! Btw, that's exactly how I feel about DT as well. Focus on getting the simple basics right for the people there and those that want to be there. Do that, and you'll get further for less investment than reaching for expensive gimmicks to make it sexy and cool for suburbanites.
Quote from: Todd_Parker on January 18, 2018, 11:14:44 AM
Quote from: CityLife on January 18, 2018, 10:28:11 AM
Jax's economy is so reliant on the financial services sector that it could be extremely vulnerable to a major disruption in that field, like Blockchain and Cryptocurrency could potentially have. The City really needs to make some kind of bold, innovative long term move, or it could be left in the dust in 20 years.
Isn't the city being left in the dust right now? Unless the next Amazon/Apple/Google is developed locally, the city seems set to remain in the mid-tier status for quite some time (not that that is necessarily a bad thing) and should be content with and embrace any upgrades such as the Laura St. trio, IKEA, Brightline stopover between Miami and Atlanta, etc. The goal shouldn't be to become like an Atlanta or Orlando, but to become a better Jacksonville.
Orlando is 100% driven by its tourist economy and service industry. Actually, Jacksonville is probably in better shape than Orlando with a downturn because of the its a traditional regional business center.
I have been screaming it for awhile, but Jax needs to try to form a closer relationship with UF Health/UF and attract some research funding to Jacksonville. When you look at that list, it is full of cities with large research universities like Austin (UT), Nashville (Vanderbilt), Columbus (Ohio State), Raleigh (NC State, with Duke and UNC between 30 to 45 min away). We have a portion of the UF Med School here, we need to push for some research which I think would be beneficial for both UF research being in a bigger city and Jax.
Muh the end is near!!!
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 18, 2018, 02:25:05 PM
Quote from: Todd_Parker on January 18, 2018, 11:14:44 AM
Quote from: CityLife on January 18, 2018, 10:28:11 AM
Jax's economy is so reliant on the financial services sector that it could be extremely vulnerable to a major disruption in that field, like Blockchain and Cryptocurrency could potentially have. The City really needs to make some kind of bold, innovative long term move, or it could be left in the dust in 20 years.
Isn't the city being left in the dust right now? Unless the next Amazon/Apple/Google is developed locally, the city seems set to remain in the mid-tier status for quite some time (not that that is necessarily a bad thing) and should be content with and embrace any upgrades such as the Laura St. trio, IKEA, Brightline stopover between Miami and Atlanta, etc. The goal shouldn't be to become like an Atlanta or Orlando, but to become a better Jacksonville.
Orlando is 100% driven by its tourist economy and service industry. Actually, Jacksonville is probably in better shape than Orlando with a downturn because of the its a traditional regional business center.
Not even remotely close to being true. The vast majority of Orlando's middle class residents located north of downtown have nothing to do with tourism. Orlando has substantial video game programming, software design, military simulation/R&D, and engineering sectors. It has a more evolved and diversified 21st century economy than Jax does, and this is coming from someone that hates Orlando. As I said earlier, Jax's reliance on financial services could be potentially be devastating in the future as banking and financial firms utilize blockchain (and other emerging technologies). There is a very realistic possibility of massive financial service industry layoffs. See below Harvard Business Review and Forbes articles.
https://hbr.org/2017/03/how-blockchain-is-changing-finance
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2017/08/10/practical-examples-of-how-blockchains-are-used-in-banking-and-the-financial-services-sector/#624b6a031a11
Jax was never going to get Amazon and does not need Amazon to become a great city. However, it should be a wake up call that the City is not even in the top 20, particularly with the offer of free premium real estate, which many other cities could not offer. I cited the example of Orlando's proposal being substantially better than Jax, because that means that Jax probably wasn't even close to the top 20 either.
Quote from: Sonic101 on January 18, 2018, 11:24:00 AM
What confuses me is that three places in the DC metro made the list. They couldn't just choose one or say 'DC metro'?
I think it's shown as 3 distinct listings as it is 3 distinct governing entities - Maryland, Virginia and DC. They all just happen to be in proximity to each other. I haven't read that they are actually cooperating on some regional basis which means they are competing against each other. Like Newark, NJ and New York, NY.
As to Jacksonville, if we really want to make ourselves more appealing, we should take Amazon's criteria and work to improve our responses to each of them over time. We are talking about such items as urban core street interactions, green space and walk-ability, mass transit, all levels of education, cultural attractions and greater acceptance of diverse populations. In many ways, this is all interconnected and, as noted, is what we should be doing for those already living here before worrying about adding newcomers.
Instead, we are focused on expensive taxpayer funded side shows like a new convention center, "panacea" developments like the District & Shipyards, a 7 city-block courthouse complex in the middle of a major downtown street, subsidized parking garages, tearing down road ramps, tearing down LaVilla, doubling down on the stadium, dredging the river, creating a poorly designed inter-modal complex, maintaining/expanding a poorly implemented and expensive-to-operate Skyway, etc. all of which amount to putting the cart before the horse at the very best. And, none of these mostly poorly conceived and disjointed projects substantially enhances the quality of life for the average person and, maybe, actually subtracts given the substantial resources invested could have been deployed on the issues that really matter as highlighted by Amazon.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/business/john-gallagher/2018/01/18/detroit-amazon-headquarters-finalists/1043624001/
Detroit is OUT, on this one. Therefore, Jacksonville is not out yet, I'm hoping anyway?
Aaaag, I knew I shoulda double checked:
This is the list of top 20 considered cities:
Atlanta
Austin, Texas
Boston
Chicago
Columbus, Ohio
Dallas
Denver,
Indianapolis
Los Angeles
Miami, Fla.
Montgomery County, Md.
Nashville
Newark, N.J.
New York City
Northern Virginia
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Raleigh, N.C.
Toronto, Ontario
Washington D.C.
Ok so Jacksonville didn't make the top 20 list :(
Quote from: jaxrox on January 18, 2018, 11:44:56 PM
https://www.freep.com/story/money/business/john-gallagher/2018/01/18/detroit-amazon-headquarters-finalists/1043624001/
Detroit is OUT, on this one. Therefore, Jacksonville is not out yet, I'm hoping anyway?
Reading this article about why Detroit didn't make the cut makes it crystal clear that Jax never had a chance.
If Amazon went by the criteria they said they would, no one should be upset like they are in Detroit. We're not near most of their benchmarks and we have no plan to even get close.
Pretty sure last time I watched The Weather Channel, Jacksonville is not a feature city either.......
Jax is the 40th largest MSA. That should provide some additional perspective. Subtract the bigger MSAs and see who's left on that list. Whatever Nashville, Indy, Columbus, Raleigh, etc. are doing is what smaller MSAs like Jax should be paying attention to.
Here's a nice writeup of all the finalists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/technology/cities-amazon-headquarters.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-1&action=click&contentCollection=Technology®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/technology/cities-amazon-headquarters.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-1&action=click&contentCollection=Technology®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article)
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2018, 09:19:20 AM
Jax is the 40th largest MSA. That should provide some additional perspective. Subtract the bigger MSAs and see who's left on that list. Whatever Nashville, Indy, Columbus, Raleigh, etc. are doing is what smaller MSAs like Jax should be paying attention to.
Bingo.
I noted that almost half the pictures from each finalist city in this NY Times article featured significant public parks and waterfront access. The other cities listed have them as well. Jax... not so much! Until I see our urban planners providing for this, I can't take seriously our community's commitment to developing the urban core and expect that we will continue to languish in Downtown.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/technology/cities-amazon-headquarters.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-1&action=click&contentCollection=Technology®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/technology/cities-amazon-headquarters.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-1&action=click&contentCollection=Technology®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article)
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2018, 09:19:20 AM
Jax is the 40th largest MSA. That should provide some additional perspective. Subtract the bigger MSAs and see who's left on that list. Whatever Nashville, Indy, Columbus, Raleigh, etc. are doing is what smaller MSAs like Jax should be paying attention to.
I agree. Where did Raleigh and Nashville stand a generation ago relative to Jax, and where do they stand now?
In addition, and this may be too idealistic, but I'm more interested in investing in homegrown talent to create the next "disruptive" behemoth, versus trying to incentivize some transformational project from the outside. We're always focused on someone else from the outside to come in and profoundly remake us.
A first-class city is a front-office city, and the front-office has the big idea guys, the creatives, the people of vision who feel empowered to pursue products and services that have lasting impacts, that change people's interactions with their surroundings and with each other, that add global value.
As a community, does Jax have a set of values, cultural institutions, educational experiences, and a "social network" to create a native talent pool that constantly pushes the envelope and is constantly looking to innovate and differentiate. When we effectively put that sort of striving in our people (especially our young), then we'll be on sound footing to greatness. That's the only sort of "incentives" program I feel mostly at ease with.
Columbus and Raliegh don't meet all qualifications such as mass transit and true international airport. But they have well respected universities in the metro area.
Supposedly Amazon reached out to all the bidders to let them know why they weren't chosen. Will be interested to find out what the feedback was on Jax.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on January 19, 2018, 11:46:53 PM
Supposedly Amazon reached out to all the bidders to let them know why they weren't chosen. Will be interested to find out what the feedback was on Jax.
============================================
Dear City of Jacksonville,
Really?
Sincerely,
Amazon
I really think that they want the HQ2 on/near the Eastern seaboard as a counterpart to the Seattle HQ . IMO it's gonna be either of the DMV cities, Boston, New York, Miami, Atlanta, Newark or Philadelphia.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 19, 2018, 11:38:39 AM
I noted that almost half the pictures from each finalist city in this NY Times article featured significant public parks and waterfront access. The other cities listed have them as well. Jax... not so much! Until I see our urban planners providing for this, I can't take seriously our community's commitment to developing the urban core and expect that we will continue to languish in Downtown.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/technology/cities-amazon-headquarters.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-1&action=click&contentCollection=Technology®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/technology/cities-amazon-headquarters.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-1&action=click&contentCollection=Technology®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article)
**Whining*** but we DOO have parks& waterfront access heeeeere!
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on January 19, 2018, 11:46:53 PM
Supposedly Amazon reached out to all the bidders to let them know why they weren't chosen. Will be interested to find out what the feedback was on Jax.
Yes, and I hope that the letter is published in either the Jacksonville times-union or jax daily record
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2018, 09:19:20 AM
Jax is the 40th largest MSA. That should provide some additional perspective. Subtract the bigger MSAs and see who's left on that list. Whatever Nashville, Indy, Columbus, Raleigh, etc. are doing is what smaller MSAs like Jax should be paying attention to.
Nashville, Austin, Columbus, and Raleigh have large research universities (or 3 within 30-45 min in Raleigh's case) which creates an environment of innovation and business creation. This is part of the reason I have been advocating for years that we need pour everything we have into getting UF to establish more research aspects with the UF Health campus here. Really push for some investment, especially in the health care, pharmaceuticals or related sectors. We are the closest major metro to UF (who does more than $700 million in research) and only 70 miles away (to DT Jax) in our current road system, there is no reason it should take anything more than an hour to get from DT Jax to Gainesville in non-peak traffic times (and of course 45 minutes to the Westside of Jax). Get the innovation and research going here, and you could see companies interested with easy access to talent.
The other thing those cities all have in common: they are state capitals and regional business centers (except Austin, which was not traditionally a regional business center, although the rest are). Combine all of this, and you have large creative classes.
Indianapolis is a state capital. With quite a pharmaceutical industry that's often overlooked. Columbus (also a capital) has Ohio State going for it. Nashville, I have personal reasons to like... So I guess since there's no other Florida city in the running, and Detroit is out too, hmmm.. root for ? This could get quite sticky and interesting lol. Atlanta has some possibilities too, I think.. to possibly land this.. ha-ha,this is almost like having to pick a football team to root for, when nobody you like made it to Superbowl (lol, just kidding, lol maybe not lol, I don't fancy the atl falcons much and I detest the ne patriots lol but that's another thread I guess lol) ;)
South Florida is still in the running. That's the only Florida MSA.
Quote from: TimmyB on January 20, 2018, 08:20:11 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on January 19, 2018, 11:46:53 PM
Supposedly Amazon reached out to all the bidders to let them know why they weren't chosen. Will be interested to find out what the feedback was on Jax.
============================================
Dear City of Jacksonville,
Really?
Sincerely,
Amazon
Now that is funny!
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 25, 2018, 01:46:21 AM
The other thing those cities all have in common: they are state capitals and regional business centers (except Austin, which was not traditionally a regional business center, although the rest are). Combine all of this, and you have large creative classes.
Those cities don't point out what Jax should be trying to do, they point out how we differ and no amount of wishing will change the difference. We don't have a state capitol and we don't have big universities. Dress it up however you like, that is the bottom line. And . . . our "big" university has a suburban focus. So it goes.
I thought it was a damn good video presentation the city put together. Certainly there were bigtime stretches in there (an image of Westcott at FSU ? ? ? And mapping out the universities within 200 miles ? ? ? Useless.) but it might intrigue an unknown company interested in a much smaller downtown footprint.
Our best bet for public-private institutional growth is something growing out of the convergence of Mayo / M.D. Anderson / UF Health here.
Again, this is the company that cities are fighting to give the farm too.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/technology/amazon-wristband-tracking-privacy.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-plans-to-split-hq2-evenly-between-two-cities-1541446552
Quote from: JaxAvondale on November 05, 2018, 03:06:55 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-plans-to-split-hq2-evenly-between-two-cities-1541446552
Paywalled. Can you spoil the article and state which cities, if any, are mentioned?
Thanks
Non paywall link
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/05/amazon-will-reportedly-create-two-new-headquarters-instead-of-one.html
I realize now I could've searched that myself, but thank you regardless.
Hmm....DC, NYC, Dallas.... the rich get richer. I was kind of hoping they'd select a second tier city where they could be an economic "game changer".
NYT is reporting it will be a split between Queens and Crystal City. So NYC and DC. Anticlimactic to say the least.
https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-hq2-new-headquarters-will-be-in-queens-and-crystal-city-2018-9
So what's already overpriced (cost of living) within Queens or Crystal City will become even more overpriced. Yay Amazon!!!
Trying to imagine all those additional people in Crystal City. Particularly wondering about the current Metro station.
Very indicative of what has been happening for many years now. A relatively small number of areas across the country are prospering enormously but struggling to handle the effects of that (incl. gentrification), and many vast areas in between are flat-lining or declining.
I wonder if NYC offered incentives? Their mayor was publicly against doing so last year.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 06, 2018, 09:50:47 AM
I wonder if NYC offered incentives? Their mayor was publicly against doing so last year.
I don't know but maybe the state is? Gov Cuomo has been over-the-top in his courtship of Amazon
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on November 06, 2018, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 06, 2018, 09:50:47 AM
I wonder if NYC offered incentives? Their mayor was publicly against doing so last year.
I don't know but maybe the state is? Gov Cuomo has been over-the-top in his courtship of Amazon
There's no way Cuomo didn't offer incentives. The state is known for giving them out a good bit for jobs - the city, not as much. He's (half-jokingly) offered to change his name and the name of the river to Amazon if it would help.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 06, 2018, 09:50:47 AM
I wonder if NYC offered incentives? Their mayor was publicly against doing so last year.
I don't know if any incentives specifically for Amazon would be coming their way from the administration but it would be the linchpin for the construction of the long discussed and debated Queens-Brooklyn streetcar line for the increasingly popular yet under-served by mass transit riverfront neighborhoods of the area. Even if they get Amazon to pony up their share of the cost, this has become an increasingly costly public works project that without Amazon's presence would have a hard time ever seeing the light of day.
In the end, I'm pretty sure the city and state's total investments in infrastructure, subway, and possible LIRR improvements would rival any open "incentives" offered by any other regions.
I'm interested to see what their Crystal City footprint will be. That area is poorly laid out, but pretty dense already
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on November 06, 2018, 12:11:31 PM
In the end, I'm pretty sure the city and state's total investments in infrastructure, subway, and possible LIRR improvements would rival any open "incentives" offered by any other regions.
Even New Jersey's $7 billion to be on the other side of the Hudson?
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on November 06, 2018, 12:11:31 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 06, 2018, 09:50:47 AM
I wonder if NYC offered incentives? Their mayor was publicly against doing so last year.
I don't know if any incentives specifically for Amazon would be coming their way from the administration but it would be the linchpin for the construction of the long discussed and debated Queens-Brooklyn streetcar line for the increasingly popular yet under-served by mass transit riverfront neighborhoods of the area. Even if they get Amazon to pony up their share of the cost, this has become an increasingly costly public works project that without Amazon's presence would have a hard time ever seeing the light of day.
In the end, I'm pretty sure the city and state's total investments in infrastructure, subway, and possible LIRR improvements would rival any open "incentives" offered by any other regions.
To that point, MTA (buses, subway, LIRR, most bridges and tunnels, etc) is a State Agency. I bet outside of some sidewalks, roads, etc., the City of New Your may not have to invest a ton.
Quote from: Steve on November 06, 2018, 12:48:28 PM
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on November 06, 2018, 12:11:31 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 06, 2018, 09:50:47 AM
I wonder if NYC offered incentives? Their mayor was publicly against doing so last year.
I don't know if any incentives specifically for Amazon would be coming their way from the administration but it would be the linchpin for the construction of the long discussed and debated Queens-Brooklyn streetcar line for the increasingly popular yet under-served by mass transit riverfront neighborhoods of the area. Even if they get Amazon to pony up their share of the cost, this has become an increasingly costly public works project that without Amazon's presence would have a hard time ever seeing the light of day.
In the end, I'm pretty sure the city and state's total investments in infrastructure, subway, and possible LIRR improvements would rival any open "incentives" offered by any other regions.
To that point, MTA (buses, subway, LIRR, most bridges and tunnels, etc) is a State Agency. I bet outside of some sidewalks, roads, etc., the City of New Your may not have to invest a ton.
The rub on New York City's limited investment scenario is the potential site for Amazon HQ2 is the conversion of the Sunnyside Yard rail from train storage to commercial and residential development. To get an idea of what kind of investment the city would need to put up for this project look at the Hudson Yards project where they city invested hundreds of millions of dollars converting those old rail yards. They even extended the 7 subway line which itself comes to over 2 billion dollars a mile.
And if they were to build new construction elsewhere in the area keep in mind much of Long Island City was basically a huge version of Parking Lot J with a lot of old heavily polluting manufacturers that would require some form of remediation Amazon would nudge the city to commit too in some way.
Best news of the day!
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-amazon-cancels-new-york-20190214-story.html
So who was the next runner up?
Amazon said in their press release that they will likely move all the NYC jobs to DC and Nashville (where they had already planned a large expansion).
Will be a very interesting case study in 5-10 years.
Nice come up for Nashville!
Quote from: thelakelander on February 14, 2019, 05:30:03 PM
Nice come up for Nashville!
I don't think it is clear yet if/where Amazon is replacing the NYC hub jobs based on press coverage. No doubt, they will have to find somewhere to put those jobs if they truly plan to fill them. Looks like some runners up are already pitching for a second look including New Jersey and Chicago.
Per CNN: "In its statement, Amazon said it has no plans to "reopen the HQ2 search at this time." Instead, it plans to move forward with its office expansions in Virginia as well as Nashville, where it is building a new hub expected to employ 5,000 people."
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/0cbd127fdcf31c29d782d6b51384d2b1111951ae/c=356-0-4745-3300/local/-/media/2018/11/13/TennGroup/Nashville/636777192511517586-NAS1Brd-04-12-2018-Tennessean-1-A007-2018-04-11-IMG-180330-Nashville-Yar-1-1-3ALMC4H0-L1209158695-IMG-180330-Nashville-Yar-1-1-3ALMC4H0.jpg?width=534&height=401&fit=crop)
I guess I haven't been following this as much. I had no idea they were putting 5,000 employees in Downtown Nashville. That's like DT Jax landing five VyStars....
Quote from: thelakelander on February 14, 2019, 07:11:10 PM
I guess I haven't been following this as much. I had no idea they were putting 5,000 employees in Downtown Nashville. That's like DT Jax landing five VyStars....
Nashville seems to be doing a lot of things that Jacksonville is not and it seems to be paying off big time. Another city poised to pass us by? Joining Atlanta, Charlotte, Tampa, Orlando, Ft. Laurderdale, Miami, Austin... How many more before we figure out that other ingredients besides incentives and low taxes are needed to get us up to the level these cities are playing at?
It passed us about 15 years ago. I remember back in the Urban Planet forum days (2004ish), there used to be arguments between Jax, Louisville and Nashville forum members on which "ville" would take the next step first.
Here is an interesting tidbit:
Below, from the almost 100 years ago 1920 census, are the Southern cities in the top 100 ranked by population. Given this was before the advent of modern suburbs, it is probably safe to say these numbers also approximated well the metro area populations.
Jacksonville is the only Florida city on the list and no cities from North (Charlotte?) or South Carolina (Charleston?) made it. Other than several Texas cities, Atlanta and Nashville, none are really "top tier" Southern cities today. Amazing to see New Orleans and Louisville at the top of the list by quite a bit in 1920.
By the way, Florida had a total of 968,470 persons as the 32nd most populous state. Our estimated 2018 census is 21,300,000. If Jax grew proportionally to Florida, we would have about 2,014,000 in the metro area, nearly double what we actually have today.
New Orleans: 387,219
Louisville: 234,891
Atlanta: 200,616
Birmingham: 178,806
Richmond: 171,667
Memphis: 162,351
San Antonio: 161,379
Dallas: 158,976
Houston: 138,276
Nashville: 118,342
Norfolk: 115,777
Ft. Worth: 106,482
Jacksonville: 91,558 (equal to Waterbury, CT, Oklahoma City, OK & Flint, MI)
Savannah: 83,252
Knoxville: 77,818
El Paso: 77,560
^I've been using this link to 1790 - 1990 historical US city census population and density rankings since the beginning of the forum:
https://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/twps0027.html
It's a great resource for understanding the historical development patterns of cities and determining which ones have larger pre-WWII walkable urban cores than others. New Orleans, Savannah, Charleston, etc. were early coastal port cities. Louisville and Memphis are all cities that boomed during the steamboat era. Atlanta, Birmingham, etc. came to life with railroad expansion. During the civil rights era, Atlanta capitalized as being seen as progressive while Birmingham came off as racist and the rest is history between those two. The Texas cities have continued to boom as epicenters of the oil industry (Houston basically took New Orleans' place). Florida was a latecomer, so although Jax was Florida's first major city, in comparison to the rest of the US, it was still smaller than Wilmington, DE, Spokane, Tacoma, Erie and Flint in 1920 and by 1940 had been caught by Miami. So whenever, we compare ourselves to other regions, the scale of their DTs, urban areas, densities, etc., it's always good to have a general background perspective of historical scale because most of this country's post WW2 growth has been autocentric. That's the reason why Jax still has a more walkable historical urban core than Orlando, despite Orlando's metropolitan area being twice as large now.
^This is what makes what the Nashville, Charlottes and Austins of the south have done in the last 30 years really impressive. Jax caught and surpassed Nashville by 1940 and was larger and denser in 1960. Both consolidated that decade but Nashville has really elevated itself since the 1990s.
1940:
Jacksonville - 173,065 (30.2 square miles)
Nashville - 167,402 (22.0 square miles)
1960:
Jacksonville - 201,030 (30.2 square miles)
Nashville - 170,874 (29 square miles)
It will be really interesting to see what the urban area population numbers are in the 2020 census. In 2010, we were still larger:
2010 Urban Area Population:
Jacksonville - 1,065,219
Nashville - 969,587
When it comes to DT development, Nashville has certainly clustered much of its investments within a pedestrian scale environment, allowing additional synergies to build off those investments. That type of scene eventually leads to economic coups like an Amazon coming in and bringing 5,000 jobs. On the other hand, spreading your investments out and relying on expensive gimmick one-trick pony projects leads to 2019 Jax where we're still talking about revitalizing DT after decades and billions already spent.
Yeah, Nashville surpassed and has since lapped Jax. Was there over the holidays after not visiting for a long time and it's incredible how much the City has grown. The Gulch area is impressive and there is a lot more stuff around there coming soon. My BIL works in RE development up there and shared some upcoming projects that Jax would drool over.
QuoteBoth consolidated that decade but Nashville has really elevated itself since the 1990s.
But how can that be !!! Everyone knows Consolidation destroyed all the ability or political will to ever do anything with the original part of JAX.
Nashville also has 35 council members for those who think Jax's 19 is too much:
(https://www.nashville.gov/portals/0/SiteContent/Council/images/districts/council_districts.jpg)
Quote from: CityLife on February 15, 2019, 10:32:36 AM
Yeah, Nashville surpassed and has since lapped Jax. Was there over the holidays after not visiting for a long time and it's incredible how much the City has grown. The Gulch area is impressive and there is a lot more stuff around there coming soon. My BIL works in RE development up there and shared some upcoming projects that Jax would drool over.
Yeah, Nashville has lapped us no doubt. Their one glaring weakness is transit, which shows no signs of being properly addressed.
Good point on Consolidation succeeding there, but I'm not sure it's apples to apples. Other than maybe Franklin (which imo is overrated), there is not much around Nashville to draw population and power base to. Jax has St. Augustine, Ponte Vedra Beach, and the Beaches.
Quote from: CityLife on February 15, 2019, 02:20:27 PM
Good point on Consolidation succeeding there, but I'm not sure it's apples to apples. Other than maybe Franklin (which imo is overrated), there is not much around Nashville to draw population and power base to. Jax has St. Augustine, Ponte Vedra Beach, and the Beaches.
The complaint with Consolidation isn't that St. Johns County or anywhere else takes all the power base, but that people INSIDE the consolidated city (but not in the core) will not support a strong urban core nor understand the importance of one.
For comparison to Jacksonville's 875 square miles, Nashville is 528 square miles.
In looking that up, I learned that they have a 40-member city council - 35 from districts (vs. Jax 14), and 5 at-large (like Jax).
And, thank you vicupstate, for saying what I was going to say about the lake of focus on the core.
Quote from: vicupstate on February 15, 2019, 02:34:19 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 15, 2019, 02:20:27 PM
Good point on Consolidation succeeding there, but I'm not sure it's apples to apples. Other than maybe Franklin (which imo is overrated), there is not much around Nashville to draw population and power base to. Jax has St. Augustine, Ponte Vedra Beach, and the Beaches.
The complaint with Consolidation isn't that St. Johns County or anywhere else takes all the power base, but that people INSIDE the consolidated city (but not in the core) will not support a strong urban core nor understand the importance of one.
I may not have made the point clear. In Jax you have a City Council person that represents the Beaches, one that represents the Intracoastal, and an at large that represents both of those areas. To those 3 reps, the economy and well being of the Beach is more important than Downtown. Same goes for the Council people who border in SJC. To them a strong SJC may be better for their districts than a strong Downtown.
Nashville has more hegemony (and less regional competition) than Jax, therefore the consolidated government is more focused on the well being of the urban core of Nashville. That's my theory anyway.
QuoteFor comparison to Jacksonville's 875 square miles, Nashville is 528 square miles.
I think Duval County is 840 of which about 35 sq miles are the Beaches and Baldwin.
Out of that 840 is over 100 sq miles that is city owned/controlled property that no one lives on. Still a significant difference but I don't think enough of one to matter much.
Sounds like all the local politicans, governor, and unions are upset trickeldown economics got pulled out from under them.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on February 15, 2019, 01:32:34 PM
Quote from: CityLife on February 15, 2019, 10:32:36 AM
Yeah, Nashville surpassed and has since lapped Jax. Was there over the holidays after not visiting for a long time and it's incredible how much the City has grown. The Gulch area is impressive and there is a lot more stuff around there coming soon. My BIL works in RE development up there and shared some upcoming projects that Jax would drool over.
Yeah, Nashville has lapped us no doubt. Their one glaring weakness is transit, which shows no signs of being properly addressed.
I'm so proud of Charlotte and the light rail orientation of its transit authority. The train cars are packed almost every time I'm
On them. It's been a while since I checked out Nashville but have read tons about it's progress. Charlotte is sort of missing a very large, renowned, prestigious university within walkable proximity of its urban core. That's sort of where perhaps Nashville and Austin have us beat. But yea, Jax has been edged out of this tier. Hard to say whether Jax's fall in standing and station are a result of anything Charlotte/Nashville did, or anything Jax didn't do, but there's been a relative fall indeed. Perhaps these things just happen: big execs and corporates like mild weather but 4 clear seasons...prefer cities off the coasts...maybe easier to build without issues of low-country and drainage and wetlands...who knows.
Being coastal didn't negatively impact Tampa or Miami, which both have continued to grow to be on notches above the Nashvilles, Charlottes, Austins, Orlandos of the south. There's some bad decisions that were made decades ago locally but many things were beyond local control. I imagine Jax's and Charlotte's fortunes would be different today if Barnett, Florida National, Atlantic National Bank, etc. acquired Charlotte's banks in the 1980s/90s instead of what really happened.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 16, 2019, 03:48:51 PM
I imagine Jax's and Charlotte's fortunes would be different today if Barnett, Florida National, Atlantic National Bank, etc. acquired Charlotte's banks in the 1980s/90s instead of what really happened.
Sadly, much of Jax's historic businesses have reflected the conservatism of the City and mirror the City's relative growth which has seen these other Southern cities being discussed as passing us by.
Jax banks were unagressive in growing beyond Florida. Winn Dixie let Walmart and Publix pass it by. Gulf Life, Independent Life, the Jacksonville Shipyards, Stockton, Whatley Davin, Alliance Mortgage/Everbank, numerous Jax manufacturers and distributors, etc. have succumbed to acquirers from their respective industries that have been much more aggressive in expanding their businesses and changing with the times. Most of Jax's biggest business drivers today are operations controlled by out of town entities (Mayo, Amazon, TIAA, Home Depot, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, Wells Fargo, Johnson and Johnson, Univ. of Florida, Citi, Mercedes, Southeast Toyota, Anheuser-Busch, etc.) rather than local HQ'd companies.
True, so many industries have been rolled up that what Jax has experienced is not totally unique. But, other than Fidelity National and its sister, companies, who themselves relocated here from California and are not Jax bred, and maybe our homegrown Florida Blue, there are few examples of our largest Jax companies being among the innovators of their industries. Likewise, Jax civic leadership has not demonstrated being innovators in their roles and Jacksonville has fallen behind others as a result.
While I disagree with Mr. Kahn's incessant demands for City handouts to support his interests, he is correct in saying Jax is woefully slow, uncreative, unimaginative, lacking vision and failing to fully exploit its potential. I don't really subscribe to his vision for the stadium as I believe it will compete, not support the heart of downtown, but at least he is providing a catalyst for discussion about what Jax could be if we played all our cards right (which, sadly, we continue to fail to do). If we had more voices demanding creative and innovative visions and aggressive executions of same, everyone in Jax would be better off.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 16, 2019, 09:27:17 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 16, 2019, 03:48:51 PM
I imagine Jax's and Charlotte's fortunes would be different today if Barnett, Florida National, Atlantic National Bank, etc. acquired Charlotte's banks in the 1980s/90s instead of what really happened.
Sadly, much of Jax's historic businesses have reflected the conservatism of the City and mirror the City's relative growth which has seen these other Southern cities being discussed as passing us by.
Jax banks were unagressive in growing beyond Florida. Winn Dixie let Walmart and Publix pass it by. Gulf Life, Independent Life, the Jacksonville Shipyards, Stockton, Whatley Davin, Alliance Mortgage/Everbank, numerous Jax manufacturers and distributors, etc. have succumbed to acquirers from their respective industries that have been much more aggressive in expanding their businesses and changing with the times. Most of Jax's biggest business drivers today are operations controlled by out of town entities (Mayo, Amazon, TIAA, Home Depot, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, Wells Fargo, Johnson and Johnson, Univ. of Florida, Citi, Mercedes, Southeast Toyota, Anheuser-Busch, etc.) rather than local HQ'd companies.
True, so many industries have been rolled up that what Jax has experienced is not totally unique. But, other than Fidelity National and its sister, companies, who themselves relocated here from California and are not Jax bred, and maybe our homegrown Florida Blue, there are few examples of our largest Jax companies being among the innovators of their industries. Likewise, Jax civic leadership has not demonstrated being innovators in their roles and Jacksonville has fallen behind others as a result.
While I disagree with Mr. Kahn's incessant demands for City handouts to support his interests, he is correct in saying Jax is woefully slow, uncreative, unimaginative, lacking vision and failing to fully exploit its potential. I don't really subscribe to his vision for the stadium as I believe it will compete, not support the heart of downtown, but at least he is providing a catalyst for discussion about what Jax could be if we played all our cards right (which, sadly, we continue to fail to do). If we had more voices demanding creative and innovative visions and aggressive executions of same, everyone in Jax would be better off.
Very accurate and well stated.
Amazon backing out of NYC is a cautionary tale for other cities. Always important to distinguish between upfront cash incentives and tax abatements of future tax revenue. Unfortunately, a very vocal NYC congresswoman (and many others) is not able to distringuish between the two, and helped lead the anti-Amazon charge. Good to at least see the state budget director expose their ignorance.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/open-letter-new-york-state-budget-director-robert-mujica-regarding-amazon?curator=MediaREDEF
Quote
"The seventy percent of New Yorkers who supported Amazon and now vent their anger also bear responsibility and must learn that the silent majority should not be silent because they can lose to the vocalminority and self-interested politicians.
This is probably the most important part of that article. Elections have consequences, and if you feel a way about something, you can't sit around in silence and hope people know how you feel. You have to stand up and tell people, especially your representatives, what you want so they can either accommodate you better or reconsider their own stance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0oeeXjyHiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0oeeXjyHiw)
Great response to Amazon. Well worth the 5.5 minutes.
Quote from: vicupstate on February 26, 2019, 10:41:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0oeeXjyHiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0oeeXjyHiw)
Great response to Amazon. Well worth the 5.5 minutes.
Definitely a great video. But from what I've seen, Amazon doesn't actually want to be in the business of renewal or ground-up development. Look at just the final 20 cities. Every single one of them is a major city or at least an important city for the region. A good many of them are already near large state schools that would likely be able to put out qualified new workers. More importantly, consider the lack of cohesion between existing residents and those who would be moving in. Do people in these heavily-conservative areas actually
want a massive, likely liberal population moving into the area? The people of Queens did make a point in that housing prices would likely rise significantly following the move-in. You're talking a large number of diverse, well-paid people who will be looking for high-end entertainment options, or maybe things like legal weed and whatnot. The heartland has to be willing to provide this, and its people have to be open to these different ideas. So Amazon would both need an interest in this way of business, and the area would need a genuine interest in the people and changes Amazon would bring.
^^ You make a lot of good points. I think a good compromise would be someplace in the Midwest that was strong once but needs new economic engines. Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, for example.
It's funny how everyone credits or blames Alexandria Ocasio Cortez for getting rid of Amazon (yes she protested with the cameras on her) but NY Senator Michael Gianaris (whose district covers the would-be area) was the real key politician with power that thwarted the Amazon deal in NY from behind the scenes. No one mentions his name, just high profile AOC.
https://nypost.com/2019/02/14/this-is-the-man-who-delivered-the-death-blow-to-amazon-deal/
Instead of pursuing wasteful projects like Lot J, a Four Seasons Hotel, spending $400+ million on the Skyway/AV's and tearing down the Landing and Hart Bridge ramps, why aren't we doing more to invest in things that attract businesses like this that are locating just hours away from us:
$1 billion investment, one million square feet, 3,000 jobs with average pay of $187,000, high tech, $112 million infrastructure investment, $100 million donation to schools and communities, 100% renewable energy, name company in Apple ...And, we still have a chance for the same...
QuoteThe new North Carolina campus is part of the company's plan to invest $430 billion and add 20,000 new jobs across the United States in the next five years, Apple announced early Monday morning.
Read more here:
QuoteNC finally lands Apple campus, bringing $1 billion and 3,000 jobs to Wake County
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article250934144.html (https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article250934144.html)
It's unclear to me whether we'd have the support of the state in making that happen. NC is giving Apple an $845 million grant, that's no small number. And bigger problem, even if we did have Tallahassee's support to bring a company like Apple to Florida, why would it be here instead of in Miami?
Why would Apple want to be in Jax? That would be the first question that would pop in my mind before thinking about how to pull and incentives package together. Could they even fill the jobs they would need?
Quote from: marcuscnelson on April 26, 2021, 11:52:32 AM
It's unclear to me whether we'd have the support of the state in making that happen. NC is giving Apple an $845 million grant, that's no small number. And bigger problem, even if we did have Tallahassee's support to bring a company like Apple to Florida, why would it be here instead of in Miami?
My point is you don't get if you don't try. Your approach would lead to not even trying.
My question is what are we doing to even position ourselves to pursue these opportunities? As in the case of Amazon, these tech companies are looking for certain qualities in a community that we don't appear to currently possess in full.
As to your question of state backing, the state can back multiple sites and those local sites can layer on top of that. NC supported this site but maybe also Charlotte. No doubt, they just wanted to be sure it was in NC.
As to the NC state subsidy, much of this is because they have a personal income tax and they are reinvesting the Apple employees' expected income taxes back into attracting Apple. Since Florida is a lower tax state, we wouldn't have to reinvest so much since we are not taking it out to begin with. There are lots of ways to level the playing field. It's all about being creative.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 26, 2021, 12:00:05 PM
Why would Apple want to be in Jax? That would be the first question that would pop in my mind before thinking about how to pull and incentives package together. Could they even fill the jobs they would need?
How do we know the answer if we are not pursuing them? How do we leverage our "failures" to build for success in the future? If you read the article, you will see that NC was spurned several times by Apple before finally landing them. You don't think they made adjustments along the way and worked to address Apple's desires? Jax used this approach in pursuing the NFL. Why not for major wins like this?
We certainly tried for Amazon and was pretty far away from what they were looking for. The best way to compete for these types of opportunities is to first start investing in yourself, your quality of life and establishing an environment they can actually work within.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on April 26, 2021, 12:01:09 PM
How do we know the answer if we are not pursing them? How do we leverage our "failures" to build for success in the future? If you read the article, you will see that NC was spurned several times by Apple before finally landing them. You don't think they made adjustments along the way and worked to address Apple's desires? Jax used this approach in pursuing the NFL. Why not for major wins like this?
What does Wake have that we don't that was very attractive to them? Those schools up there blow us away....What is our local comparable to Research Triangle Park?
Quote from: thelakelander on April 26, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
We certainly tried for Amazon and was pretty far away from what they were looking for. The best way to compete for these types of opportunities is to first start investing in yourself, your quality of life and establishing an environment they can actually work within.
Exactly! And I don't think we do enough of that... we are too distracted by less meaningful projects that have little to no payback a few years after they are completed, if at all. AV's and Lot J are just the latest examples of that.
Imagine if we boosted our primary, secondary and higher educational institutions, generally, and, specifically, to cater more to high tech needs. And, improved our park system, accelerated urban core projects like the Emerald Trail, cleaned up more of the City, took transit to another level (no pun on raising it to the level of the Skyway ;D), etc. I am sure the City knows the list by now but I wonder if anyone is focused on it. It doesn't appear to be so.
^That's part of the struggle. We're still not really investing in ourselves. We're doing a lot more talking now and there's more will to spend money on enhancing our quality of life. Yet, we still haven't actually implemented any of these necessary investments.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 26, 2021, 12:30:28 PM
^That's part of the struggle. We're still not really investing in ourselves. We're doing a lot more talking now and there's more will to spend money on enhancing our quality of life. Yet, we still haven't actually implemented any of these necessary investments.
Imagine redirecting $240 million for Lot J and $400 million for AV's to growing our educational institutions! That should take us to a higher level right there. The return on investment in higher paying jobs, more employment and less crime would be amazing. Far more than the original intended uses.
Just read this little tidbit about Google:
QuoteThe median employee compensation rose to $273,493 from $258,708 in 2019...
https://www.investors.com/news/technology/google-stock-momentum-will-be-tested-in-first-quarter-earnings-report/?src=A00220 (https://www.investors.com/news/technology/google-stock-momentum-will-be-tested-in-first-quarter-earnings-report/?src=A00220)
Consider that's over 135,000+ employees at the end of 2020. This is why we should be pursing more high tech jobs.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on April 26, 2021, 12:39:21 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 26, 2021, 12:30:28 PM
^That's part of the struggle. We're still not really investing in ourselves. We're doing a lot more talking now and there's more will to spend money on enhancing our quality of life. Yet, we still haven't actually implemented any of these necessary investments.
Imagine redirecting $240 million for Lot J and $400 million for AV's to growing our educational institutions! That should take us to a higher level right there. The return on investment in higher paying jobs, more employment and less crime would be amazing. Far more than the original intended uses.
It would take a while lot more than $640 million to make Jacksonville's schools even close to the caliber of Duke, UNC, Wake Forest, and NC State.
Duke's endowment is $12.16 billion
UNC's endowment is $3.8 billion
Wake's endowment is $1.35 billion
NC State's endowment is $1.42 billion
UNF's endowment is $116 million
Duke and UNC each have more than the combined endowments of the entire twelve universities in the State University System. Florida is still a young state economically and it's hard to compete with old money.
The grifters involved with One Spark tricked a lot of people in Jax into thinking it was a lot more than it was in terms of being a tech or startup hub, but the reality is that it still has a very long way to go to even be on the radar of any major players.
Quote from: CityLife on April 26, 2021, 02:55:22 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on April 26, 2021, 12:39:21 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 26, 2021, 12:30:28 PM
^That's part of the struggle. We're still not really investing in ourselves. We're doing a lot more talking now and there's more will to spend money on enhancing our quality of life. Yet, we still haven't actually implemented any of these necessary investments.
Imagine redirecting $240 million for Lot J and $400 million for AV's to growing our educational institutions! That should take us to a higher level right there. The return on investment in higher paying jobs, more employment and less crime would be amazing. Far more than the original intended uses.
It would take a while lot more than $640 million to make Jacksonville's schools even close to the caliber of Duke, UNC, Wake Forest, and NC State.
Duke's endowment is $12.16 billion
UNC's endowment is $3.8 billion
Wake's endowment is $1.35 billion
NC State's endowment is $1.42 billion
UNF's endowment is $116 million
Duke and UNC each have more than the combined endowments of the entire twelve universities in the State University System. Florida is still a young state economically and it's hard to compete with old money.
The grifters involved with One Spark tricked a lot of people in Jax into thinking it was a lot more than it was in terms of being a tech or startup hub, but the reality is that it still has a very long way to go to even be on the radar of any major players.
There is a big difference between invested endowments and spendable funds. Spending (not investing) $640 million would take an endowment, at 3% returns, of $21+ billion. And, I am not saying we can go from zero to 60 overnight, but it would be a big step forward from the present. Also, if the funds are targeted toward software and hardware engineering, for example, vs. spreading it over an entire educational curriculum, facilities and student activities (as those endowments you mentioned likely do), it would be even more leveraged for this purpose.
Of course there is a difference between endowments and spendable money, but I was merely highlighting how big the gap is between the two areas. For further comparison, UNC's yearly budget is $4 billion (30k students) compared to $320 million for UNF (17k students). The research triangle schools have advanced revenue streams that wouldn't even show up in an endowment.
Also, the $640 million you suggested would not have come as a lump sum payment from the general fund. It is from gas tax that is to be paid out over time and the Lot J portion was at least partially driven by revenue generating uses that do not exist without the project.
The research triangle is the envy of virtually every city in the country, due to having the aforementioned 4 major universities (including 2 of the best in the entire country) in close proximity. I like your optimism and drive to push things forward, but instead of trying to catch a unicorn, Jax should focus on something more achievable, imo. I'm not privy to what's feasible for Jax, but highly doubt it's major offices for Google, Apple, or Amazon.
We could probably snag some tech firm moving out of California or even one of the financial firms leaving New York, but the challenge is getting them here vs Miami.
DCPS is starting to gather the funds from the sales tax, so hopefully we'll see some of that money get put to use for building our K12 stuff. But going forward we probably need to tie DCPS and FSCJ closer together in terms of producing talented kids, and tie ourselves as close as we can to UF if we're going to try and compete in the longer run.
I personally fail to see how the U2C would provide a genuinely attractive transit option vs Charlotte's LRT or Miami's fixed people mover. But I'm not completely sure of the path to picking a more sensible option at this point. Either way, providing useful regional transportation is going to be important.
Beyond that, actually getting out of our own way and putting together a concentrated center of activity downtown is probably a priority. The type of talent we need to attract needs to want to live here.
Quote from: CityLife on April 26, 2021, 05:45:43 PM
Of course there is a difference between endowments and spendable money, but I was merely highlighting how big the gap is between the two areas. For further comparison, UNC's yearly budget is $4 billion (30k students) compared to $320 million for UNF (17k students). The research triangle schools have advanced revenue streams that wouldn't even show up in an endowment.
Also, the $640 million you suggested would not have come as a lump sum payment from the general fund. It is from gas tax that is to be paid out over time and the Lot J portion was at least partially driven by revenue generating uses that do not exist without the project.
The research triangle is the envy of virtually every city in the country, due to having the aforementioned 4 major universities (including 2 of the best in the entire country) in close proximity. I like your optimism and drive to push things forward, but instead of trying to catch a unicorn, Jax should focus on something more achievable, imo. I'm not privy to what's feasible for Jax, but highly doubt it's major offices for Google, Apple, or Amazon.
I get your perspective but there are cities that started with less than Jax and are passing us by. Even Orlando has a decent tech industry. And, cities like Nashville (just attracted a big Amazon center and now Apple) are moving ahead of us too. What are these cities doing differently than us? That is the question.
In many respects, I think we may be selling ourselves short - that we have more assets than we give ourselves credit for. This makes me think it is very much a lack of leadership and marketing focus aside from other issues we may have.
For example, we have had some big wins leading to a robust and large (some reports say among the world's largest) fintech industry here so we aren't completely backwoods. Medical technology could also be more front and center. We should be leveraging this status quo to attract more diverse tech jobs around those cores but I don't see where the City has its act fully together to do so.
I might add that what is not well recognized is how many tech employees work from home here because they can live wherever they wish. I was told by a technology company employee once that they have over 400 mostly home-based employees living here. Most report to various out-of-town corporate divisions and there is no central facility here to identify them. How many others in our midst here work for big tech companies? What could we do to build upon these opportunities, especially with COVID's impact?
As to funding, I have understood that the $640 million I brought up would be immediately available because it would be bonded. Just like the school board tax. I will agree that without revenue from Lot J, that $240 million would not be bondable. My real point was to show that this City can find hundreds of millions of dollars when it wants to. As such, I don't buy that we don't have the money to invest to bring us up to a higher level. Instead, we squander it on low or negative ROI projects.
A few more tidbits:
Apple's web site says they have at least 250 employees in 29 different cities and have increased by 28x its employment outside of California since 2000. Plus this:
Quote
Apple plans to grow its employee base in regions across the United States over the next three years, expanding to over 1,000 employees in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City each, and adding hundreds of new jobs in Pittsburgh, New York, Boulder, Boston and Portland, Oregon. The company recently opened its newest office in Nashville, Tennessee and Apple's Miami office is projected to double in size.
And this:
(https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/environments/apple-campus/Apple-build-campus-in-Austin-and-in-US-projected-employment-12132018_big.jpg.large.jpg)
Google has operations in dozens of US cities but only one in Florida (Miami): https://careers.google.com/locations/?src=Online%2FHouse%20Ads%2FAdSitelinks (https://careers.google.com/locations/?src=Online%2FHouse%20Ads%2FAdSitelinks)
Microsoft is more centered on large cities: https://careers.microsoft.com/professionals/us/en/locations#North-America (https://careers.microsoft.com/professionals/us/en/locations#North-America)
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on April 26, 2021, 06:41:21 PM
I get your perspective but there are cities that started with less than Jax and are passing us by. Even Orlando has a decent tech industry. And, cities like Nashville (just attracted a big Amazon center and now Apple) are moving ahead of us too. What are these cities doing differently than us? That is the question.
In many respects, I think we may be selling ourselves short - that we have more assets than we give ourselves credit for. This makes me think it is very much a lack of leadership and marketing focus aside from other issues we may have.
To be honest, these places are out of our league economically. While we were once larger, those two cities in particular, passed Jax by back in the 1980s and 90s....before the urban real estate booms of the past two decades that they took full advantage of and that we flopped on. While it is important not to sell ourselves short, we also have to be realistic on our short comings, where we need to make quality of life investments and how long it takes for those things to play out successfully. A Raleigh, Orlando or Nashville may land something sexy today but that's also a result of 30 years of hard work in the making with some of these communities.
QuoteFor example, we have had some big wins leading to a robust and large (some reports say among the world's largest) fintech industry here so we aren't completely backwoods. Medical technology could also be more front and center. We should be leveraging this status quo to attract more diverse tech jobs around those cores but I don't see where the City has its act fully together to do so.
This would suggest more focus on what our community is well poised to take advantage of. There's a lot of good paying jobs with many industries catered to our community. We certainly should go after these opportunities and we can, without wasting too much energy going after big fishes we don't have the capacity to catch or keep alive long term in our fish bowl.
QuoteA few more tidbits:
Apple's web site says they have at least 250 employees in 29 different cities and have increased by 28x its employment outside of California since 2000. Plus this:
Quote
Apple plans to grow its employee base in regions across the United States over the next three years, expanding to over 1,000 employees in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City each, and adding hundreds of new jobs in Pittsburgh, New York, Boulder, Boston and Portland, Oregon. The company recently opened its newest office in Nashville, Tennessee and Apple's Miami office is projected to double in size.
All of these places are an economic tier above Jax and it's set of peers. The smallest metro on this list, still has 2 million people (Boulder is an extension of Denver, IMO). That's significantly larger and that's not even counting the vibrant downtown, being a state capital, major tourist destination and being home to multiple places of higher learning like Vanderbilt. That's something to keep in mind too, without going to route of selling ourselves too short.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on April 26, 2021, 11:52:32 AM
It's unclear to me whether we'd have the support of the state in making that happen. NC is giving Apple an $845 million grant, that's no small number. And bigger problem, even if we did have Tallahassee's support to bring a company like Apple to Florida, why would it be here instead of in Miami?
Similar to support given to Boeing in Charleston SC. I don't see FL doing that.
Quote from: jaxjags on April 26, 2021, 11:09:50 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on April 26, 2021, 11:52:32 AM
It's unclear to me whether we'd have the support of the state in making that happen. NC is giving Apple an $845 million grant, that's no small number. And bigger problem, even if we did have Tallahassee's support to bring a company like Apple to Florida, why would it be here instead of in Miami?
Similar to support given to Boeing in Charleston SC. I don't see FL doing that.
Don't underestimate Florida. As of 2015, Florida did this:
QuoteFlorida Scripps Research Institute $545,000,000
And those were 2003 dollars (adjusted for inflation, might be pushing $800 million to a billion in today's dollars - on par with No. Carolina's offer to Apple).
In raw dollars, it easily passed or was on par with the biggest subsidies as of 2015 by states like California (to Northrop Grumman), Indiana, Kansas and Kentucky (for General Motors x2 and Toyota), Georgia (Hyundai), Connecticut (for United Technologies) and many others.
And, how much do you think the State has assisted Disney, Universal, Sea World, Busch Gardens, the cruise lines, etc. via "in kind" support like roads, expanded airports and ports, other infrastructure, tax benefits (Disney even has its own "tax district" outside of any local government), etc.
Add the State's low tax structure as the ultimate subsidy for every business to come here. Many state "subsidies" are really just a return of business taxes that Florida doesn't charge in the first place so appearances can be deceiving.
Here is the full list of largest subsidies by state as of 2015 from the Washington Post ("number" refers to the number of grants):
Quote
State Parent company Dollars Number
Alaska Teck Resources $267,000,000 3
Alabama ArcelorMittal $1,073,000,000 1
Arkansas Big River Steel $139,500,000 1
Arizona Thomas J. Klutznick Co. $97,400,000 1
California Northrop Grumman $429,887,998 19
Colorado Starwood Property Trust $300,000,000 1
Connecticut United Technologies $400,000,000 1
District of Columbia Western Development Corp. $84,000,000 1
Delaware AstraZeneca $178,129,581 8
Florida Scripps Research Institute $545,000,000 1
Georgia Hyundai Motor $410,000,000 1
Hawaii Hawaiian Electric Industries $31,642 4
Iowa Orascom Group $251,000,000 1
Idaho Areva $276,000,000 1
Illinois Sears $531,717,810 9
Indiana General Motors $593,409,543 44
Kansas General Motors $417,866,917 6
Kentucky Toyota $551,883,698 30
Louisiana Sempra Energy $2,197,286,212 10
Massachusetts Energy Management Inc. $99,500,000 1
Maryland Dominion Resources $506,000,000 1
Maine General Dynamics $198,485,942 18
Michigan General Motors $1,989,982,174 114
Minnesota Delta Air Lines $838,000,000 1
Missouri Cerner $1,650,819,257 16
Mississippi Nissan $1,263,530,210 12
Montana DirecTV $2,415,000 2
North Carolina Apple $336,485,233 3
North Dakota Oaktree Capital Management $800,000 2
Nebraska ConAgra Foods $161,619,702 7
New Hampshire General Electric $268,119 3
New Jersey Prudential Financial $434,105,947 18
New Mexico Intel $2,659,370,233 41
Nevada Tesla Motors $1,287,000,000 1
New York Alcoa $5,600,376,849 13
Ohio Fiat Chrysler Automobiles $240,654,338 15
Oklahoma Weyerhaeuser $158,195,225 4
Oregon Intel $3,132,515,215 25
Pennsylvania Royal Dutch Shell $1,650,000,000 1
Rhode Island General Growth Properties $140,000,000 1
South Carolina Boeing $1,020,000,000 6
South Dakota Terex $2,205,000 1
Tennessee Volkswagen $818,800,000 11
Texas Berkshire Hathaway $802,720,000 29
Utah Micron Technology $171,061,598 5
Virginia Huntington Ingalls Industries $98,000,000 1
Vermont General Electric $13,322,120 8
Washington Boeing $11,945,527,815 52
Wisconsin Brunswick $123,000,000 2
West Virginia Cabela's $127,523,480 2
Wyoming Brain Farm Digital Cinema $96,935 1
GRAPHIC: Good Jobs First. Published March 17, 2015.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/the-united-states-of-subsidies-the-biggest-corporate-winners-in-each-state/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/17/the-united-states-of-subsidies-the-biggest-corporate-winners-in-each-state/)
I'm glad you posted this. In my previous response, I almost posted that people in Jax need to study what Palm Beach County did to attract Scripps and the Max Planck Institutes and what Orlando has done in Lake Nona. Each of them were long term and calculated efforts, with buy in and commitment from local leaders. Scripps is in my neighborhood in Jupiter, so I'm familiar with it. It wasn't wholly funded by the state. The $545 million was a combination of state and local dollars. I believe the state's total payout was $300 million, which was paid out over a long period.
What would Jacksonville spend $300 million of state dollars on it it could? I legitimately don't know, because I don't think the City even does...
....Which leads to this post. If you ever want to figure out why Jax has gotten passed by so many others, look no further than the Jax Chamber website. This is truly, truly embarrassing. If you are an out of state/country business, what does this website tell you?
https://www.myjaxchamber.com/
I can't even find anything about Mayo Clinic or UF Health on the website. The website is on par with what I would expect from a place like Lake City or Palm Coast. Heck, even Macon, Georgia has a better website and that is the only podunk place I checked. https://www.maconchamber.com/#/
Now look at the Palm Beach County Business Development Board website. https://www.bdb.org/
How about Orlando's https://business.orlando.org/
©2013 JAX Chamber
Yikes.
Quote from: CityLife on April 27, 2021, 09:55:50 AM
....Which leads to this post. If you ever want to figure out why Jax has gotten passed by so many others, look no further than the Jax Chamber website. This is truly, truly embarrassing. If you are an out of state/country business, what does this website tell you?
https://www.myjaxchamber.com/
I can't even find anything about Mayo Clinic or UF Health on the website. The website is on par with what I would expect from a place like Lake City or Palm Coast. Heck, even Macon, Georgia has a better website and that is the only podunk place I checked. https://www.maconchamber.com/#/
Now look at the Palm Beach County Business Development Board website. https://www.bdb.org/
How about Orlando's https://business.orlando.org/
Quote from: CityLife on April 27, 2021, 09:55:50 AM
....Which leads to this post. If you ever want to figure out why Jax has gotten passed by so many others, look no further than the Jax Chamber website. This is truly, truly embarrassing. If you are an out of state/country business, what does this website tell you?
https://www.myjaxchamber.com/
I can't even find anything about Mayo Clinic or UF Health on the website. The website is on par with what I would expect from a place like Lake City or Palm Coast. Heck, even Macon, Georgia has a better website and that is the only podunk place I checked. https://www.maconchamber.com/#/
Now look at the Palm Beach County Business Development Board website. https://www.bdb.org/
How about Orlando's https://business.orlando.org/
In fairness, the Chamber's main recruiting site is under the JaxUSA Partnership at: https://jaxusa.org/ (https://jaxusa.org/). This appears to be more like the Chamber links cited above.
That said, I have read we have one of the largest Chamber memberships in the US. My guess, based on the web site, is our Chamber has a disproportionate interest in maintaining memberships. They have a lot of overhead including their nice Class A building and a CEO who makes mid-6 figures (and wants to promote himself as he runs for mayor). Reflecting our elected officials, more misplaced priorities.
At a minimum, the Chamber website should make it more obvious that JaxUSA is the place to go for out-of-town recruitment. It barely merits a mention on the Chamber site and then only after clicking on a drop down menu. Further, the link to the JaxUSA site is buried half way down the page in small type. Really? This is the best they can do? Definitely Podunk for an organization who's main mission is to promote jobs coming to the City.
"What would Jacksonville spend $300 million of state dollars on it it could?"
Well, the clown cars on the skyway, for one.....
I'd love to see a video where they take some clips from u2C promo, speed it up and play the Benny Hill theme song.
That would be hilarious!
Intel is proposing a mega project a la Amazon: $60 to $120 billion for multiple fab facilities on one super-campus with 10,000 employees.
Criteria appear to include land, infrastructure, energy, and proximity to universities (to recruit employees).
I am guessing a 1,000 acre Cecil mega-site might be of interest depending on how close to universities they want to be. At that location, they would be within about 1 hour of UF, minutes from Jax area colleges and about 3 hours from FSU and UCF.
Anyone want to opine on Jax's chances of landing this one?
Quote
...."We are looking broadly across the U.S.," Gelsinger told the Washington Post. "This would be a very large site, so six to eight fab modules, and at each of those fab modules, between 10- and $15 billion. It's a project over the next decade on the order of $100 billion of capital, 10,000 direct jobs. 100,000 jobs are created as a result of those 10,000, by our experience. So, essentially, we want to build a little city."
At this point, Intel does not disclose which nodes the first module of the fab will support. Yet, since it will start operations sometime in 2024 at the earliest, the new facility will probably produce chips using the Intel 4 and the Intel 3 manufacturing technologies. Eventually, the fab complex will adopt more advanced fabrication technologies. The production capacity of the upcoming fab is unknown, so is its location. Intel needs to build its next manufacturing in a location with well-developed infrastructure, adequate supply of water and energy. Also, the company plans to build it near big cities with universities in a bid to higher qualified personnel.
"We're engaging with a number of states across the United States today who are giving us proposals for site locations, energy, water, environmentals, near universities, skill capacity, and I expect to make an announcement about that location before the end of this year," Gelsinger said....
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-to-spend-up-to-120-billion-on-new-us-manufacturing-hub
I wouldn't have a ton of faith in landing it, but I'm not opposed to putting out a bid anyway. Nothing wrong with giving it the ol' college try.
From a positioning standpoint, a place like Lake Nona might be able to put one over on us. It's also unfortunate that a site near Cecil means that they wouldn't be able to really enjoy being in the city. They'd be effectively connected to likely Oakleaf from a livability standpoint, which might not be optimal for the types of workers they'd want to attract.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on August 08, 2021, 12:22:36 AM
I wouldn't have a ton of faith in landing it, but I'm not opposed to putting out a bid anyway. Nothing wrong with giving it the ol' college try.
From a positioning standpoint, a place like Lake Nona might be able to put one over on us. It's also unfortunate that a site near Cecil means that they wouldn't be able to really enjoy being in the city. They'd be effectively connected to likely Oakleaf from a livability standpoint, which might not be optimal for the types of workers they'd want to attract.
Intel will likely be looking more for high tech manufacturing workers than software engineers so their labor needs might favor an area like Jax a little more. Also, this is 10,000 workers, not the 50,000 Amazon was looking to host so the city size might be a better match. Lastly, I have to believe that it will take closer to 1,000 acres (or more) to handle their build out and I doubt there is any significant city that can offer that kind of land "close in" or even in their inner suburbs. Cecil may be as good as it gets in terms of relative distance. A project like this will pull people from many miles around, far beyond the distance to Oakleaf, no matter where they go. As such, I don't think that would really be a factor.
Regarding energy, an intriguing possibility for a Florida facility would be pairing it with an on-site or utility matched solar farm. Cheap and reliable power would have to be of great interest. They apparently also care a lot about availability of water. That may rule out the entire western US given their ongoing drought conditions. We won't even mention trying to keep forest fire smoke out of their clean rooms.
I was thinking Lake Nona in terms of the general atmosphere of the area developing, plus the proximity to UCF which is big on engineering if I remember right. I feel like it'll be tough to really make the case for Florida over the existing new tech hubs like Texas and North Carolina. Even if they're different from software workers, generally they'll try to consolidate in the same areas.
Of course, one of the most important things is going to be where whoever is in charge of this wants to live. That's how we landed Bill Foley and Fidelity two decades ago. So Jacksonville would have to answer the question of why that person would want to live here, and why they should.
Their Arizona operation is 14 miles from Arizona State University, not one to three hours away. I'd find it very hard to believe that Cecil Field would be the type of location this type of operation would be seeking. It will be interesting to who gets selected and close or dramatically different that site will be in comparison to Cecil.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on August 07, 2021, 10:16:22 PM
Intel is proposing a mega project a la Amazon: $60 to $120 billion for multiple fab facilities on one super-campus with 10,000 employees.
Criteria appear to include land, infrastructure, energy, and proximity to universities (to recruit employees).
I am guessing a 1,000 acre Cecil mega-site might be of interest depending on how close to universities they want to be. At that location, they would be within about 1 hour of UF, minutes from Jax area colleges and about 3 hours from FSU and UCF.
Anyone want to opine on Jax's chances of landing this one?
Quote
...."We are looking broadly across the U.S.," Gelsinger told the Washington Post. "This would be a very large site, so six to eight fab modules, and at each of those fab modules, between 10- and $15 billion. It's a project over the next decade on the order of $100 billion of capital, 10,000 direct jobs. 100,000 jobs are created as a result of those 10,000, by our experience. So, essentially, we want to build a little city."
At this point, Intel does not disclose which nodes the first module of the fab will support. Yet, since it will start operations sometime in 2024 at the earliest, the new facility will probably produce chips using the Intel 4 and the Intel 3 manufacturing technologies. Eventually, the fab complex will adopt more advanced fabrication technologies. The production capacity of the upcoming fab is unknown, so is its location. Intel needs to build its next manufacturing in a location with well-developed infrastructure, adequate supply of water and energy. Also, the company plans to build it near big cities with universities in a bid to higher qualified personnel.
"We're engaging with a number of states across the United States today who are giving us proposals for site locations, energy, water, environmentals, near universities, skill capacity, and I expect to make an announcement about that location before the end of this year," Gelsinger said....
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-to-spend-up-to-120-billion-on-new-us-manufacturing-hub
Step 1:
Put a MovetoJax.net billboard outside the Intel HQ.
Step 2:
Wait.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 08, 2021, 08:40:35 AM
Their Arizona operation is 14 miles from Arizona State University, not one to three hours away. I'd find it very hard to believe that Cecil Field would be the type of location this type of operation would be seeking. It will be interesting to who gets selected and close or dramatically different that site will be in comparison to Cecil.
Intel also has huge operations in New Mexico and Oregon. The closest significant universities appear to be the Univ. of New Mexico and Univ. of Portland. As the crow flies, they are in the range of 10 to 15 miles apart in each location. On this basis, UNF is about 21 miles. I would think UNF might be on par in many respects with those schools and that an additional 7 to 10 miles would not be that meaningful. If those schools have programs of interest to Intel, I would imagine it's because Intel underwrote them or had those universities otherwise develop them to attract and/or retain Intel in the first place. If so, Intel could facilitate that model wherever they choose to go if it isn't already in place. Regardless, we will know in due course how this plays out. I am sure Intel will have lots of options nationwide.