U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown’s office asked Mayor John Peyton’s chief of staff to help protect her Jacksonville home from rising floodwater Friday.
Adam Hollingsworth, who once worked for Brown, told city workers to deliver sandbags to her home, something he now says was a judgment error. No one else would get such preferential treatment, he said when contacted by the Times-Union, and Brown will be billed by the city for reimbursement.
Hollingsworth also told city workers to deliver sandbags to City Councilwoman Denise Lee, this time unsolicited.
Peyton did not condemn Hollingworth’s actions, saying Friday he was “delighted our public works employees were able to help save these homes.â€
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/082308/met_322010783.shtml
Peyton sometimes reminds me of Billy Zane's Character from Titanic. When Kate Winslet said half the people on this boat are going to die, he responds, "Not the Better Half"
This is such total BS. I am sorry, but while city workers were hauling sand bags and stacking them up Ms. Brown was WATCHING, not helping not doing a dang thing, well except trying to defend herself when the nes crew attacked. AND of course peyton thinks there is nothing wrong with this, he alos thinks there is nothing wrong with giving his friends our tax dollars for nothing, nothing at all...just as a gift.
Too bad the storm did not wash Peyton out of town (metaphorically speaking of course). :D
I was hoping CNN would have jumped on this story... She is so fun to watch on TV... :D
if peyton had any brains (something I don't think he has) he'd hang hollingsworth out to dry (nice pun), not only was using city resources for her wrong, his (hollingsworth) moronic attempts at spin just made it look worse, scapegoats to the right please
Yes...and it involves more than just a woman in a flood zone getting sandbags
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 01:44:42 PM
are we serious?
someone is pissed because the city dropped off sandbags to a woman in a flood zone?
Yes. She was just your ordinary average "woman in a flood zone". ::)
Did anybody else get sand bags? Possibly her neighbors?
No, they didn't...
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 24, 2008, 02:57:26 PM
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 01:44:42 PM
are we serious?
someone is pissed because the city dropped off sandbags to a woman in a flood zone?
Yes. She was just your ordinary average "woman in a flood zone". ::)
yep - nothing special about her. nothing at all about her position in government that would've prompted charges about preferential treatment. nothing to see here. ;)
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 01:44:42 PM
are we serious?
someone is pissed because the city dropped off sandbags to a woman in a flood zone?
please tell me that you don't grasp the misallocation of resources involved! wouldn't a better allocation of the limited city resources been better put to use handling problems at city owned properties instead of using those city owned (otherwise known as taxpayer) materials and labor to secure privately owned property?
While the newspeak is that we are all equal apparently some are more equal than others
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 03:38:56 PM
I dont think its about her being 'special'. I would hope that anyone who asked for sand (in florida) could get some in an emergency.
I dont see anything wrong with it.
not to be rude, but if you don't see what is wrong here, you are either blind or a sycophant of these politicians
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 03:38:56 PM
I dont think its about her being 'special'. I would hope that anyone who asked for sand (in florida) could get some in an emergency.
I dont see anything wrong with it.
I dont see anything wrong with it either... as long as everybody else gets the same treatment. Therin lies the outrage...
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 04:06:31 PM
was someone denied sandbags or something?
as per the tv story I saw, the next door neighbor of the congress critter asked for some bags as was told ( not a quote) sorry bub, we're not really here
Stephen this is the kind of abuse of power and position you are always ranting on and on about, I can not believe you find nothing wrong with this, especially being the staunch republican that you are!
I saw the pics of Springfield and riverside... no one mentioned city officials driving about handing out sandbags to those in need. I assume the city was aware of the flooding...
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on August 24, 2008, 04:48:25 PM
Stephen this is the kind of abuse of power and position you are always ranting on and on about, I can not believe you find nothing wrong with this, especially being the staunch republican that you are!
huh?
This is the basic services that the city should be providing.
Is it because Corrine is black? Would anyone have had a problem if it was a 60 year old white woman in San Marco instead? Im sorry, but I think the city should be commended for doing it, no matter who it was for.
It sounds like political viciousness to me in all seriousness.
Did she make some kind of profit off of the sand?
LOL, there you go with the race card again... I know you are brilliant, so you must be 'stirring the pot again'. It woudln;t matter if she was yellow, green, or pink....she is a politician and used that power to ge tthe city to not only bring her sandbags, but also place them for her. Wouldn't placing sand bags at the Karples been a better use of city resources since this is a museum? How about sand baggin the castle since the city's lackluster poorly designed bridge causes that landmark to flood? They did not offer the service to anyone who was not 'political' hence the issue. It is an abuse of power period.
The city does NOT provide sand bags to private individuals, nor do they commonly dispatch multiple trucks. But then again the average person does not have a former employee as the mayors chief of staff, or hopefully his soon to be former chief of staff.
Whether the city should provide sandbags is an open question, but the point is they don't now.
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 05:17:38 PM
Did the karpeles ask for sandbags?
Is a 60 year old woman going to physically be able to place them?
I mean come on. It was a humanitarian act. And instead of thanking the city and insisting that this service be available on a first come first serve basis, people are actually pissed.
How mean spirited and callow can we possibly be? Would it have made anyone happy to see our congresswoman's house destroyed and out on the street?
What are you guys arguing on the side of here?
Why don’t you check out the facts, when she was on TV she had plenty of young strong men carrying her furniture around for her. She didn't NEED the help; she abused her power to get it. The news also reported hundreds of calls for sandbags and support from the city were being denied. In fact her very own constituents were some of the most underserved during the storm. Instead of applauding the fact she got this preferential treatment, you should be upset she didn’t get this treatment for her constituents. After all she is supposed to serve them, not herself.
OK, how about YOU show me how many others besides Ms. Brown got the city to send out a truck load of sandbags and the crew to place them?
And you seriously think RSG is bad? Come on.... You are cracking me up, really, diet coke all over the monitor cracking me up. I know I can always count on you for a laugh or two Thanks!
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: civil42806 on August 24, 2008, 05:16:19 PM
The city does NOT provide sand bags to private individuals, nor do they commonly dispatch multiple trucks. But then again the average person does not have a former employee as the mayors chief of staff, or hopefully his soon to be former chief of staff.
Whether the city should provide sandbags is an open question, but the point is they don't now.
Civil, I have probably forgotten, but what side of town do you live on now?
Westside immediately adjacent to will branch creek, while I wsn't there the neighbhorhood was watching the creek spill out its banks and approach the homes. If they had only known that they could call the mayors chief of staff, and sandbags would have been rushed to there homes I'm sure they would have
QuoteHollingsworth, who once worked for Brown, said he regrets the judgment error that led him to tell city workers to deliver the sandbags. He told the Times-Union on Friday that other residents wouldn't have received the same preferential treatment, and Brown will be billed by the city for reimbursement.
Mayoral spokeswoman Misty Skipper said there is no policy on delivering sandbags to residents during emergencies, and the service is typically not provided. "Adam [Hollingsworth] received an urgent call from a concerned resident and responded based on need," Skipper said. "He acted outside of our policy, and he has since admitted that."
Hollingsworth also told city workers to deliver sandbags to City Councilwoman Denise Lee after she declined any assistance. Lee said she was surprised when a city worker showed up at her home and offered help, but some neighbors thought the councilwoman was using her political clout for personal advantage.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/082408/met_322273763.shtml (http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/082408/met_322273763.shtml)
I think he should immediately resign
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 04:53:46 PM
huh?
This is the basic services that the city should be providing.
Is it because Corrine is black? Would anyone have had a problem if it was a 60 year old white woman in San Marco instead? Im sorry, but I think the city should be commended for doing it, no matter who it was for.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ROFLMAO!!!! Dude I just coughed my pink nestle quik all over my keyboard!! Thanks Stephan...
No offense man. Corrine Brown is a turtle. I mean she is black, but Payton is white and he co signed the sandbags right? C. Brown is arrogant & pushy from seeing her in person and on TV. I think that MAY be where the hate is coming from, from these posters, not cause she black. Again Stephan you my dude, but this post is crazy!!
Quote from: uptowngirl on August 24, 2008, 05:32:54 PM
And you seriously think RSG is bad? Come on.... You are cracking me up, really, diet coke all over the monitor cracking me up. I know I can always count on you for a laugh or two Thanks!
Damn you to?? lol its all good.
I think its unfair C. Brown got sandbags, they should have just sandbagged her hood, if they couldn't do that, then not at all.
Quote from: uptowngirl on August 24, 2008, 04:48:25 PM
Stephen this is the kind of abuse of power and position you are always ranting on and on about, I can not believe you find nothing wrong with this, especially being the staunch republican that you are!
Dont forget. Stephen is a supporter of Obama, Corrine Brown, Al Gore, John Kerry, huffingtonpost, crooksandliars, etc, etc, but he is a Republican (of course). :D
???
OMG Stephen you either have to be JOKING or you are a real NUTJOB. You must really enjoy being different, if the rest of us say green, you have to be the one to say red. If we say right, you say left. Why is that, are the rest of insane and you the only rational one on this board? Corrine Brown is notoriously corrupt, it is almost funny! To side with her is like siding with Obama I mean Osama ;D (JOKE just so you dont try to hurt my feelings now ;D) I think you feel like there HAS to always be an opposing side, but there really doesnt have to be an opposing side, we can ALL agree on something at least every once in a while. And for you to play the race card, you are certainly brilliant. Sometimes the most brilliant people in this country sound like they should be in the loony bin, and sometimes they do have a point of putting things in perspective for the rest of humanity's reasoning.
Clearly, this in not just something that many of us on the forum are upset about. This from News4jax.com:
QuoteA city councilman on Sunday joined what has become a storm of controversy over whether U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Jacksonville, got special treatment for with city work crews delivered sandbags to her home Friday as Tropical Storm Fay was bearing down on Jacksonville.
Brown Admits calling Mayor John Peyton's office for help, but denied any inappropriate use of her power or influence. "I had to call and call and call, just like anybody else," Brown told Channel 4's Diane Cho. "I had to call several times before I got anybody."
The mayor's chief of staff, Adam Hollingsworth, said he took Brown's call and authorized Public Works crews to sandbag her Trout River home. Late Friday, he told Channel 4 he apologized if that was a misuse of taxpayer resources. Despite Brown's repeated statements that she'd pay for the services she received from the city crew, Channel 4 has heard from hundreds of viewers outraged that a congresswoman got help that few if any other residents did.
On Sunday, City Councilman Don Redman said that while it was great the city was able to help Brown, he learned first-hand that other residents that needed help didn't get it -- even when Redman made a special request for it." At our meeting with EOC on Thursday, the mayor told us anything we need, just call and the services would be available," Redman said.
As Fay moved in, he was flooded with calls from constituents in District 4 asking for help dealing with rising water and other threats from the storm. One of his constituents sent photos showing nearly 5 feet of standing water in her Windy Hill neighborhood. When Redman called the EOC on their behalf, he said he was surprised at their response.
"She checked with fire department, all departments with the city and said, 'Don... we do not furnish sandbags for anybody else,'" Redmond said. "I said, 'Can we just get some bags and some sand I'll get them filled?' 'No, we can't do that. That's not a service we fulfill. '"Not satisfied, Redman called both the mayor's chief of staff and his chief administrative officer by cell phone, but neither answered the call.
"I did hear from both of them (Saturday), sad for not getting back to me quickly and apologizing for not getting sandbags for everybody," Redman said. Carol Caughlin, the Windy Hill resident who called Redman for help, was "incensed" that Brown got help the average Jacksonville taxpayer could not. "This just reeks of what they do in Washington and she comes back here to Jacksonville," Redman said. "They think they're politicians, they can ask for anything and they can get it, where we ask and we don't get it.
"Since Channel 4 first aired the story about the city's sandbagging at Brown's home, hundreds of other residents have criticized what appeared to be special treatment for the congresswoman. Ask whether Hollingsworth should face disciplinary action, Redman said that's out of his hands. "That's up to the mayor," Redman said. "He's a good man. He does a good job responding to issues... Under normal circumstances Adam does a good job responding.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/17283318/detail.html (http://www.news4jax.com/news/17283318/detail.html)
Methinks if this had been one of Peytons cronies or family members getting the sandbags there would be a more unified outcry on this site... :o
Quote from: Coolyfett on August 24, 2008, 10:56:15 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on August 24, 2008, 05:32:54 PM
And you seriously think RSG is bad? Come on.... You are cracking me up, really, diet coke all over the monitor cracking me up. I know I can always count on you for a laugh or two Thanks!
Damn you to?? lol its all good.
I think its unfair C. Brown got sandbags, they should have just sandbagged her hood, if they couldn't do that, then not at all.
Cooly you always cut right to the chase and GET it!
As I said before... I have no problem with the city providing these emergency services to everyone. EOC will do a "lessons Learned" evaluation of what went well and what went wrong during Fay and make appropriate adjustments. I hope prepositioning dump trucks with sand and bags for residents to fill and place themselves in historically flood prone areas would be a cheap and easy way to help people during future events like this.
Quote from: stephendare on August 25, 2008, 02:02:11 AM
um ok? weird post simms.
the joke about the black guy having the terrorist sounding name was pretty hilarious. I'm probably going to laugh about it for hours. It really drove the point home about 'using the race card' in our local situation.
thanks for the fun.
Quote from: simms3 on August 25, 2008, 01:03:18 AM
OMG Stephen you either have to be JOKING or you are a real NUTJOB. You must really enjoy being different, if the rest of us say green, you have to be the one to say red. If we say right, you say left. Why is that, are the rest of insane and you the only rational one on this board? Corrine Brown is notoriously corrupt, it is almost funny! To side with her is like siding with Obama I mean Osama ;D (JOKE just so you dont try to hurt my feelings now ;D) I think you feel like there HAS to always be an opposing side, but there really doesnt have to be an opposing side, we can ALL agree on something at least every once in a while. And for you to play the race card, you are certainly brilliant. Sometimes the most brilliant people in this country sound like they should be in the loony bin, and sometimes they do have a point of putting things in perspective for the rest of humanity's reasoning.
I hardly think commenting on the fact that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. has a Muslim sounding name is racist. Perhaps it is anti-Islam but Muslims can be of any race.
This issue is getting national exposure in the blogosphere now:
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/25/dems-get-special-hurricane-help/
It figures that bloated government hacks like Corrine demand that the city provide them protection for their own homes.
Here's a tip: if you own a home...protect it yourself! Do not depend on government help for anything. Buy your own sandbags. While I feel badly for the people who have had damage to their homes, it is not the government's responsibility to take care of them. When the hell will people understand this?
This city/county/state/federal government dependency is what constantly causes problems.
Quote from: Charleston native on August 25, 2008, 11:38:32 AM
This issue is getting national exposure in the blogosphere now:
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/25/dems-get-special-hurricane-help/
drudge also picked up the story, maybe (probably not) something good might come out of this
Quote from: stephendare on August 25, 2008, 10:22:58 AM
QuoteI hardly think commenting on the fact that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. has a Muslim sounding name is racist. Perhaps it is anti-Islam but Muslims can be of any race.
Lol. My friend, while I agree with the first three words, you lost me after that. ::)
Good one. ::)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 25, 2008, 07:40:41 AM
As I said before... I have no problem with the city providing these emergency services to everyone. EOC will do a "lessons Learned" evaluation of what went well and what went wrong during Fay and make appropriate adjustments. I hope prepositioning dump trucks with sand and bags for residents to fill and place themselves in historically flood prone areas would be a cheap and easy way to help people during future events like this.
Thank you - you got the point of why I posted this. If this was a regular service that the city provided to all residents, so be it. However, if John Q Public called 630-CITY, and asked for sandbags, I'm pretty sure what the answer would have been.
QuoteFrom: "Hollingsworth, Adam" <AdamH@coj.net>
Subject: RE: Sand Bags
Thank you for your email. I am embarrassed that one isolated decision, in the midst of a near flawless response by our emergency team, has consumed such public attention. Clearly, my actions brought disfavor to a team of professional emergency responders that served this community well over the past several days.
My mistake was in providing a response outside our emergency command structure. It has been a lesson well learned. Having said that, my response was human and it was well-intentioned. I was simply a human being responding to a panicked call from another human being. While hindsight allows us to consider a different response, I did not have the benefit of that perspective at the height of the storm.
I can certainly understand your view and your concern; and I do appreciate you writing. As a taxpayer, I apologize to you and I can commit that in the future I will not depart from our emergency procedures and will stay within the command structure.
Thank you.
Adam Hollingsworth
"I was human"...pathetic excuse.
Bottomline is that Corrine should have the scruples and resources to sandbag her place herself. City emergency services are not her damned servants.
Quote from: Lunican on August 27, 2008, 04:46:35 PM
QuoteFrom: "Hollingsworth, Adam" <AdamH@coj.net>
Subject: RE: Sand Bags
Thank you for your email. I am embarrassed that one isolated decision, in the midst of a near flawless response by our emergency team, has consumed such public attention. Clearly, my actions brought disfavor to a team of professional emergency responders that served this community well over the past several days.
My mistake was in providing a response outside our emergency command structure. It has been a lesson well learned. Having said that, my response was human and it was well-intentioned. I was simply a human being responding to a panicked call from another human being. While hindsight allows us to consider a different response, I did not have the benefit of that perspective at the height of the storm.
I can certainly understand your view and your concern; and I do appreciate you writing. As a taxpayer, I apologize to you and I can commit that in the future I will not depart from our emergency procedures and will stay within the command structure.
Thank you.
Adam Hollingsworth
what a load of crap! he must be a lawyer, he's (hollingsworth) trying to shift the focus to the workers, those guys were only following orders, he's (hollingsworth) is the one who issued the orders. It was an obvious case of misuse of public labor and supplies and if Peyton wants to retain any kind of credibility hollingworth's head should be served up, at minimum a suspension.
In addition this guy (hollingsworth) paid the bill for the councilwoman thinking that the trivial amount of money will wash away his abuse of his position to help his political cronies. too bad the media in JAX (almost non existent) won't put some pressure on and make this guy and anyone else found culpable pay the ultimate price, being fired
Well Stephen, my family had to suck up a direct hit from Hurricane Hugo. Two prominent members in our church were killed, our church was severely damaged, our house was damaged, our roads to our homes were blocked by trees, and we bought a generator to have some power in order to have food kept in the fridge. You know how many calls we made to ask for government help?
None.
What's pathetic is that Fay was just a TS. I hate to see what Corrine or Adam would do if faced with an actual major category hurricane.
It's my opinion, that this isn't so much that Corrine called and was given help...it's more that Hollingsworth stepped out of bounds with protocol, did what he should not have done...not when others called for help and were turned down. Human decency is of course a good thing, but not when it comes to picking only one who just happens to have political clout, who happens to have been his former boss...and the rest of the taxpayers pleas for help were ignored. Just how does that add up to "just being a human being" as Hollingsworth put it, or how does that add up to being compassionate?
There's no argument about that
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2008, 07:48:30 PM
The protocol itself is the problem.
Adam did what the city should have been doing for everyone.
strongly disagree. this is not an essential govt function. especially here in jax with the amount of shorelines we have with the river, ocean and intracoastal. more govt is not the solution to every problem. protecting private homeowner property is the job of the homeowner (through insurance if by no other means) - not the local gov't's job.
Quote from: Charleston native on August 27, 2008, 07:31:04 PM
None.
What's pathetic is that Fay was just a TS. I hate to see what Corrine or Adam would do if faced with an actual major category hurricane.
think "Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans" - now that New Orleans has been wiped out, maybe Jax is the new corrupt capital of the south?
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2008, 07:48:30 PM
The protocol itself is the problem.
Adam did what the city should have been doing for everyone.
the city cannot nor should it be doing that for everyone, city resources are scarce. It just goes to show you that while we all are treated equally, some are more equal than others
Quote from: Driven1 on August 27, 2008, 07:56:53 PM
Quote from: Charleston native on August 27, 2008, 07:31:04 PM
None.
What's pathetic is that Fay was just a TS. I hate to see what Corrine or Adam would do if faced with an actual major category hurricane.
think "Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans" - now that New Orleans has been wiped out, maybe Jax is the new corrupt capital of the south?
apparently, from what I've heard there is nothing new about government corruption in Duval
Quote from: Driven1 on August 27, 2008, 07:55:45 PM
Quote from: jbm32206 on August 27, 2008, 07:55:04 PM
There's no argument about that
see above.
I said that there would be no argument, given the circumstances of the issue at hand. Meaning, that if the city, and Hollingsworth was indeed acting as a agent of the city, then if such resources are made for one, they should be made for all.
I'm not in support of having a larger government...no way, no how.
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2008, 07:48:30 PM
The protocol itself is the problem.
Adam did what the city should have been doing for everyone.
How do you fund it? How do you ensure you have enough resources for everyone that requests it? How do you ensure you can get itt o everyone who requests it? In theory what a wonderful idea, in practice it would be a nightmare and impossible to support.
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2008, 08:34:45 PM
We did it for decades.
You can't tell me that its more difficult now than it was in the 50s because its not.
where do you see that we did this?
also, yes, much more difficult now because we have much more developed riverfront now than we did then. i know for a fact that my father-in-law moved over to the "boonies" when he moved out to Beaclerc on the river there - he was one of the first ones and that was in 1976. we've developed far south of there along the river and much more along the intracoastal since then.
even if we DID do it in the 50s, it was bad policy then and would be worse policy now.
police and fire are essential local govt functions.
protecting private property (that the govt forced not a single individual to purchase) is not. btw, i say this as someone who lives along a tributary of the river.
I think someone will point out that police and fire departments do in fact protect private property.
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2008, 09:41:25 PM
Yes, Lunican, they do in fact protect private property.
With increased storm activity, its one more of those old fashioned things that we lost in the 70s-80s era that we need to return to.
ok kiddies, you're getting way off track, the issue is a government official diverting resources to help another government official, he gave away services that were NOT accessible to the average citizen. That is known as corruption, and the obtuse one defending this must either be a sycophant or just likes seeing politicians getting special perks that the average person has no access to
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2008, 08:34:45 PM
We did it for decades.
You can't tell me that its more difficult now than it was in the 50s because its not.
Where did you get the idea that the City government barricaded people's houses against storms in the 1950s?
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2008, 11:02:25 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
nice name calling and argument ponte vedra guy.
Im just not some knee jerk asshole who doesnt think through my position before making statements. I don't think we should argue against a service that we used to think of as a standard part of our civil defense.
As a ponte vedra resident, you arent actually paying taxes to either our county or our city, so exactly what is your point, pvbguy?
I feel worse about rich people in your county using our basic services and expecting our county to pay for it.
Perhaps you should consider (1) how the City could organize such a massive relief effort and (2) how this would be paid for. It is a lot more complicated and expensive than just pontificating on a website. ;)
I expect individual property owners to take care of their properties as best they can. Of course, the government should try to do what it can but it is totally unrealistic to provide flood defense to everyone in a tropical storm and this whole discussion seems to be nothing more than you making excuses for Corrine Brown's special treatment by her former aide.
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 04:53:46 PM
huh?
This is the basic services that the city should be providing.
Is it because Corrine is black? Would anyone have had a problem if it was a 60 year old white woman in San Marco instead? Im sorry, but I think the city should be commended for doing it, no matter who it was for.
It sounds like political viciousness to me in all seriousness.
Did she make some kind of profit off of the sand?
This is not a service the city should be providing... If you take the risk of buying waterfront property, you should be responsible for any flood damage that comes with it. There have been reports that neighbors of Corrine were denied the same help that she was given. If that's not corruption (of course on a small scale), I don't know what is.
I don't think she made a profit from the sand (except maybe a deductible), but she sure has made some in the past. Which is why we question her character....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrine_Brown#Complaints_and_investigations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrine_Brown#Complaints_and_investigations)
It seems to me that a perfectly acceptable solution and compromise would be loading 10 or so dump trucks with sand and a pallet of empty bags and strategically station them around the city focusing on flood prone areas...San Marco, Riverside, Downtown, Springfield, etc. and let people take what they need. How much could this cost?? A couple gallons of fuel for the truck...$40, load of sand...$400, pallet of bags... $600. These are just guesstimates but at $1000 per truck and 10 trucks this is only $10,000 per storm. I would welcome more accurate costs and maybe my numbers are way off but this should be pretty easy to do...
http://www.youtube.com/v/IMpw2ig9uUQ
lol - i wanna bill and i wanna pay for it.
i had to call and call and call ... [finally i called my boy Adam Hollingsworth]
she was just pushing the reporter around and talking over her. ignoring her questions.
HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF ABUSING MY POWER!!!
lol, Hollingsworth - "she was a single woman, i wanted to help her".
I think she should have gotten a hazmat crew out there, after all she had a biological spill on her back, maybe a trip to Shands would of done more good...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 28, 2008, 07:10:44 AM
It seems to me that a perfectly acceptable solution and compromise would be loading 10 or so dump trucks with sand and a pallet of empty bags and strategically station them around the city focusing on flood prone areas...San Marco, Riverside, Downtown, Springfield, etc. and let people take what they need. How much could this cost?? A couple gallons of fuel for the truck...$40, load of sand...$400, pallet of bags... $600. These are just guesstimates but at $1000 per truck and 10 trucks this is only $10,000 per storm. I would welcome more accurate costs and maybe my numbers are way off but this should be pretty easy to do...
I am sure the city can get em cheaper but $400 for 1000 bags...
http://www.unitedbags.com/c-6-sandbags.aspx
Not sure how much a standard city dumptruck holds but 2 cubic yards of sand go for around $150... probably cheaper for the city. Looks to me like the city could provide this service for less than $1000 per site, per storm.
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2008, 04:53:46 PM
Is it because Corrine is black? Would anyone have had a problem if it was a 60 year old white woman in San Marco instead? ....
lol. thanks for the words cooly, but i swear, this section starts JUMPING the minute any black politician gets 2 dollars of a perceived advantage.
there goes the whole "racism" theory...from today's T-U (Mark Woods' column where he writes about the furor that followed Fitzgerald's - who is white - ignorant move in 2004)...
QuoteYou may recall that four years ago, with Hurricane Jeanne bearing down, Clay County Commissioner Christy Fitzgerald used county assets to shore up her Fleming Island home for the storm.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/082608/woo_322802768.shtml
Quote from: stephendare on August 28, 2008, 12:45:53 AM
Then I expect, River, that if your house should catch afire, that you and friends will put out the fire without any help from our fire department, right?
We live in a flood prone area of a state famous for its storms, hurricanes and tropical.
Stop being disingenuous.
That is apples and oranges, so it is you who are being disingenuous. BTW, still waiting for proof that the City of Jax provided flood defense services in the 1950s. Your nonresponse indicates to me that no such proof is forthcoming.
BTW Stephen, why should the City provide flooding for people who live along our rivers given that they are usually richer than the average citizen? I would think that this would offend your inner class warrior. :D
Quote from: stephendare on August 28, 2008, 06:05:00 PM
River.
dude where is this bizarre anti civil defense attitude coming from?
This is citizenship and public safety.
Please get off that shaggy, ugly mutant high horse you are riding on.
The whole state is subject to these floods and storms.
Its part of life here.
So is behaving like a community once in a while.
Don't any of the American Virtues appeal to you anymore?
claiming the preferential treatment for political cronies was civil defense is a ludicrous nonsequitur, give it a rest already!
what was done was wrong and what is even worse is that it is going unpunished
Quote from: stephendare on August 28, 2008, 10:08:23 PM
hey ponte vedra guy.
you should demand all of the taxes you pay in duval county right back!
I certainly would if I were you.
you sure are full of these non sequiturs, regardless of were my taxes are paid what was done was wrong and only true sycophants will attempt to defend the misuse of city resources to bail out a political cronies
Quote from: apvbguy on August 29, 2008, 06:28:31 AM
Quote from: stephendare on August 28, 2008, 10:08:23 PM
hey ponte vedra guy.
you should demand all of the taxes you pay in duval county right back!
I certainly would if I were you.
you sure are full of these non sequiturs, regardless of were my taxes are paid what was done was wrong and only true sycophants will attempt to defend the misuse of city resources to bail out a political cronies
How about suggesting a solution... most here agree that it was a breach of official policy to deliver the bags. Most also have no problem with people voicing complaints about abuse or waste. Many DO however object to ranting while not participating in a solution. How about some
constructive criticism rather than
destructive...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 29, 2008, 07:52:07 AM
Quote from: apvbguy on August 29, 2008, 06:28:31 AM
Quote from: stephendare on August 28, 2008, 10:08:23 PM
hey ponte vedra guy.
you should demand all of the taxes you pay in duval county right back!
I certainly would if I were you.
you sure are full of these non sequiturs, regardless of were my taxes are paid what was done was wrong and only true sycophants will attempt to defend the misuse of city resources to bail out a political cronies
How about suggesting a solution... most here agree that it was a breach of official policy to deliver the bags. Most also have no problem with people voicing complaints about abuse or waste. Many DO however object to ranting while not participating in a solution. How about some constructive criticism rather than destructive...
way back in the beginning of this thread I suggested that Hollingsworth should be canned, if that is too harsh an unpaid suspension of a week or 2. to let this go unpunished just validates the corrupt business as usual approach.
Quote from: apvbguy on August 29, 2008, 08:09:54 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 29, 2008, 07:52:07 AM
Quote from: apvbguy on August 29, 2008, 06:28:31 AM
Quote from: stephendare on August 28, 2008, 10:08:23 PM
hey ponte vedra guy.
you should demand all of the taxes you pay in duval county right back!
I certainly would if I were you.
you sure are full of these non sequiturs, regardless of were my taxes are paid what was done was wrong and only true sycophants will attempt to defend the misuse of city resources to bail out a political cronies
How about suggesting a solution... most here agree that it was a breach of official policy to deliver the bags. Most also have no problem with people voicing complaints about abuse or waste. Many DO however object to ranting while not participating in a solution. How about some constructive criticism rather than destructive...
way back in the beginning of this thread I suggested that Hollingsworth should be canned, if that is too harsh an unpaid suspension of a week or 2. to let this go unpunished just validates the corrupt business as usual approach.
Make Her pay for the bags and service (workers) at a market rate (not the prisoner rate as no one else had access to prisoners!), and fine Hollingsworth, it should be a significant fine. I think schools have proven suspension does not work, and besides he would still get paid, so why reward him with a paid vacation! Hit these people in the pocket book, after all it was the tax payers money they wasted...
Quote from: uptowngirl on August 29, 2008, 08:28:49 AM
Make Her pay for the bags and service (workers) at a market rate (not the prisoner rate as no one else had access to prisoners!), and fine Hollingsworth, it should be a significant fine. I think schools have proven suspension does not work, and besides he would still get paid, so why reward him with a paid vacation! Hit these people in the pocket book, after all it was the tax payers money they wasted...
why would his suspension be a paid one?
Quote from: stephendare on August 29, 2008, 11:03:29 AM
It is neither corrupt nor wrong.
The underlying issue is what we should be addressing instead of wasting time on this meanspirited discussion.
Sandbags should be available to everyone as possible.
How is this mean spirited and yet accusing McCain of crimes he was never charged with or dissing him for divorcing his first wife isn't?
This is a real issue,and should be treated as such. That being said I have no problem offerring sandbags if it is affordable, and can be fairly distributed without raising my taxes yet again.
Where does it stop? The government is expected to educate, raise children, provide jobs, cure illness, house and feed people, rebuild homes, bail out mortgagees, provide sand bags etc. etc. etc. WE the tax payers ARE the government and I'm tired of footing the bill. Where has personal responsibility gone? If you can't afford it or take care of it you don't need to own it or birth it.
Oh, and so much for all the dramatic doom and gloom from our city leaders about the big budget shortfall due to property tax cuts. The newly imposed fees matched my property tax cut almost to the penny. Big surprise.
Quote from: stephendare on August 29, 2008, 11:03:29 AM
It is neither corrupt nor wrong.
The underlying issue is what we should be addressing instead of wasting time on this meanspirited discussion.
Sandbags should be available to everyone as possible.
you're right about one thing, sandbags should be available to everyone, not just the ones with Hollingsworth on their speed dial.
official misconduct should be punished, and peyton and his crew of cronies should be made to pay
hear hear apvbguy!
Quote from: Springfield Girl on August 29, 2008, 12:05:37 PM
Oh, and so much for all the dramatic doom and gloom from our city leaders about the big budget shortfall due to property tax cuts. The newly imposed fees matched my property tax cut almost to the penny. Big surprise.
That's why it was a bad idea to pass a property tax cut. Now we've got fees that aren't tax deductible and they are much easier for the city to raise.
When do we see the property tax cut? My property taxes have not gone down one cent, in fact they were juts increased....
I just received a letter about 1 week ago with my proposed property taxes and they were decreased drastically. If you havent received your letter yet, you should soon.
I do not know the exact date that these are to go into effect, I dont have the announcement with me here at the office.
Hope that helps.
That is when I got mine too and they had gone up, and yes it is homesteaded
Quote from: uptowngirl on August 29, 2008, 01:33:15 PM
When do we see the property tax cut? My property taxes have not gone down one cent, in fact they were juts increased....
Not that I was in favor of the tax cut, but my 2009 bill dropped by over 20%
My bill dropped but the fees negated the savings. Whether or not you think it was a bad idea to reduce property taxes the people voted and the city circumvented the will of the people. I don't agree with the ways the government spends my money but I don't have the option of not paying taxes. They need to tighten their belts like the taxpayers have been forced to do.
Quote from: Lunican on August 29, 2008, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: Springfield Girl on August 29, 2008, 12:05:37 PM
Oh, and so much for all the dramatic doom and gloom from our city leaders about the big budget shortfall due to property tax cuts. The newly imposed fees matched my property tax cut almost to the penny. Big surprise.
That's why it was a bad idea to pass a property tax cut. Now we've got fees that aren't tax deductible and they are much easier for the city to raise.
The property tax cut was a good idea. Hiring Peyton as Mayor was a bad idea. Can Peyton, cut non-essential spending and keep property taxes low.
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 29, 2008, 11:37:29 PM
Quote from: Lunican on August 29, 2008, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: Springfield Girl on August 29, 2008, 12:05:37 PM
Oh, and so much for all the dramatic doom and gloom from our city leaders about the big budget shortfall due to property tax cuts. The newly imposed fees matched my property tax cut almost to the penny. Big surprise.
That's why it was a bad idea to pass a property tax cut. Now we've got fees that aren't tax deductible and they are much easier for the city to raise.
The property tax cut was a good idea. Hiring Peyton as Mayor was a bad idea. Can Peyton, cut non-essential spending and keep property taxes low.
since you think that reducing preoperty taxes is a good thing...and seem not to be worried about Florida's declining revenues, I have a question...
How do you suggest we fund education, infrastructure, health care, criminal justice, sanitation, etc.
Why is it that people always throw out cutting essential services as a scare tactic? Our government spends millions of dollars on programs other than these that could be cut. Like I stated in another thread, WE the taxpayers ARE the government. So call it what it is, people being forced to support other people whether they like it or not.
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 30, 2008, 08:26:19 AM
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 29, 2008, 11:37:29 PM
Quote from: Lunican on August 29, 2008, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: Springfield Girl on August 29, 2008, 12:05:37 PM
Oh, and so much for all the dramatic doom and gloom from our city leaders about the big budget shortfall due to property tax cuts. The newly imposed fees matched my property tax cut almost to the penny. Big surprise.
That's why it was a bad idea to pass a property tax cut. Now we've got fees that aren't tax deductible and they are much easier for the city to raise.
The property tax cut was a good idea. Hiring Peyton as Mayor was a bad idea. Can Peyton, cut non-essential spending and keep property taxes low.
since you think that reducing preoperty taxes is a good thing...and seem not to be worried about Florida's declining revenues, I have a question...
How do you suggest we fund education, infrastructure, health care, criminal justice, sanitation, etc.
I would start with not supplying sandbags for politicians....
Quote from: Springfield Girl on August 30, 2008, 11:52:08 AM
Why is it that people always throw out cutting essential services as a scare tactic? Our government spends millions of dollars on programs other than these that could be cut. Like I stated in another thread, WE the taxpayers ARE the government. So call it what it is, people being forced to support other people whether they like it or not.
thank you. unfortunately, this is in one ear and out the other for socialist-minded liberals.
Providing sand and bags for people to fill and use themselves should not be an expensive way to help people help themselves.
If anyone wants to take a stab at trimming line items, the 2008/09 Jacksonville city budget is available for review.
Download PDF (http://www.coj.net/NR/rdonlyres/e5xbeaqhsqw4dwjscadzzduzjdmoqkk3qgry4xnvm522tgql3jd5vhcagsp4ecfkggk4vzgstaogymwzbgqzrc5vtpc/MAYOR%27S+PROPOSED+BUDGET+WEB.pdf)
Quote from: Lunican on August 30, 2008, 06:51:32 PM
If anyone wants to take a stab at trimming line items, the 2008/09 Jacksonville city budget is available for review.
Download PDF (http://www.coj.net/NR/rdonlyres/e5xbeaqhsqw4dwjscadzzduzjdmoqkk3qgry4xnvm522tgql3jd5vhcagsp4ecfkggk4vzgstaogymwzbgqzrc5vtpc/MAYOR%27S+PROPOSED+BUDGET+WEB.pdf)
At first glance, I can say I would eliminate the "Jacksonville Human Rights Commission" which would save the City $1,238,253. Do we really need to spend hard earned taxpayer dollars to attempt to achieve something which government probably cannot achieve and probably shouldnt even be engaged in? It's charge: "to change the ethos of Jacksonville and to create an environment where harmony, unity and equality abounds". Harmony and unity are matters of the heart not of government and are more suited to churches. Equality under the law has already been achieved. Equality of outcomes has been attempted and failed in communism. This is typical bureaucratic nonsense and should face the ax immediately.
I am sure if I drilled deeper I could find many millions more that are wasted on Duval Street. I just dont have the desire to read all 342 pages of the budget tonight.
i agree with RiversideGator. i don't think it could've been said better than when he said...
QuoteHarmony and unity are matters of the heart not of government and are more suited to churches.
QuoteThat to secure these rights
so now the question: Whose rights have been denied? This is not 1850 - or even 1960. Whose rights have NOT been secured? If they WERE denied, that is grounds for a civil lawsuit - we have courts for such matters. Local government should NOT be funding feel-good stuff such as this.
Quote from: stephendare on August 31, 2008, 01:51:16 AM
How surprising that your first target would be something that has historically benefitted the african american community.
At least, Im surprised. Surprised, surprised, surprised.
Where does it say that this benefits blacks? And how long do you think it has been around?
BTW, the reason why I first listed this is it has its own listing on the table of contents and sounded suspect. Like I said, I am certain I could find many more wasted millions in the budget.
Quote from: stephendare on August 31, 2008, 02:23:44 PM
Hm? Tranquility? Perfect Union? Blessings? Happiness? Common Defense?
Thats the very basis of our government and its why we have had the greatest country in history. I don't think we should stop now.
Are you actually attempting to argue that the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence (which has no force of law BTW) require the City of Jacksonville to have a "Jacksonville Human Rights Commission" which spends over $1 million per year? :D
Straw man alert!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument
Sorry but I never made this argument.
How surprising that your first target would be something that has historically benefitted the african american community.
At least, Im surprised. Surprised, surprised, surprised.
How exactly has the HUMANS RIGHTS COMMISSION, I put it in caps because it a HUMANS RIGHT COMMISION so therefore obviously important, benefited the african american community. In fact what exactly does the HUMANS RIGHTS COMMISION do to warrant a million dollars a year? Do they issue scathing reports scolding the citizens of jacksonville, or is it possible that they simply set there and consume a million dollars a year. Why thats 1/100 of a mile that Och could use for the people mover!
Quote from: civil42806 on September 06, 2008, 09:41:25 AM
...How exactly has the HUMANS RIGHTS COMMISSION, I put it in caps because it a HUMANS RIGHT COMMISION so therefore obviously important, benefited the african american community. In fact what exactly does the HUMANS RIGHTS COMMISION do to warrant a million dollars a year? Do they issue scathing reports scolding the citizens of jacksonville, or is it possible that they simply set there and consume a million dollars a year...
This is a
well-put statement that I meant to respond to earlier. I think this is the reason RSG even mentioned it in the first place.
Jacksonville should fund that line item.