It appears the Armada's league, the NASL, is about to collapse. Some teams are jumping ship to the rival USL, which is currently Division III behind MLS and the NASL, and others are about to fold.
The Armada, after having an average attendance of nearly 8k in their first year, dropped down to 3,499 this year. The news has been reporting for weeks that they're laying off staff, and they fired many of their front office people well before that. Sports Illustrated (http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/12/03/nasl-new-york-cosmos-future-us-soccer-usl-meetings) reported that "The Jacksonville Armada have financial concerns, according to sources," while Fourfourtwo.com (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/nasl-future-demise-new-york-cosmos-usl-second-division-soccer#S2UKYUw3PwAxYwcB.99) says that "The Jacksonville Armada, also reportedly cutting back its permanent staff, currently planning to downgrade to a high school facility for the 2017 season, have stayed committed to the NASL..."
Doesn't sound too good. Leaving downtown, let alone playing at a high school, is usually a nail in the coffin for Jacksonville sports teams.
Bummer but not at the least surprised
The NASL is toast.
Unfortunately, it appears the Armada are going down with the ship.
I doubt we see the franchise survive and that is sad.
^Ditto. Love the team, love the logo, glad they are here. That said, it's hard to justify spending major league money for minor league sports, particularly for a bad, boring team in a wonky stadium never intended for soccer. Plus, it feels like Jacksonville's love affair with soccer fell off dramatically in the last 18 months.
That said, I hope they find a new home when the NASL collapses, and I hope they stick around long enough to build a solid fanbase and construct a soccer specific stadium.
Quote from: KenFSU on December 07, 2016, 03:54:27 PM
^Ditto. Love the team, love the logo, glad they are here. That said, it's hard to justify spending major league money for minor league sports, particularly for a bad, boring team in a wonky stadium never intended for soccer. Plus, it feels like Jacksonville's love affair with soccer fell off dramatically in the last 18 months.
That said, I hope they find a new home when the NASL collapses, and I hope they stick around long enough to build a solid fanbase and construct a soccer specific stadium.
I don't know that Jacksonville's love affair with soccer has declined. Nearly 20k still showed up to the USMNT game in September. The Armada's attendance likely has more to do with their much lower presence and marketing this year compared to last, which coincided with the firing of much of their top staff and apparent reduction in their budget. It doesn't help that the team's been pretty bad.
I hope they turn it around and either make it work in the Baseball Grounds, or build their own stadium. I can't imagine they'll survive long playing on a high school field if they really do that. Moving to cheaper but worse digs is what killed the Cyclones back in the day, as well as both the Barracudas and Bullets in hockey and about 80 basketball teams. However, at this point it's hard to picture the owners pumping in enough money for a soccer stadium, at least not in an area that will really attract fans. But we shall see. I've really enjoyed going to their games and I know a lot of other people have too.
I was kind of hoping the new Jaguars field would be built in a way to host soccer, high school football and such. Oh well.
It's dumb to compare a one off USMNT game to a year round semi-professional club. We've never historically been able to support these types of teams in the past and that trend looks to be continuing with the Armada. I doubt soccer will ever work in our city.
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on December 07, 2016, 04:48:46 PM
It's dumb to compare a one off USMNT game to a year round semi-professional club. We've never historically been able to support these types of teams in the past and that trend looks to be continuing with the Armada. I doubt soccer will ever work in our city.
They worked the first year. No one has tried pro soccer in many years, so there's really nothing to compare it to.
One consistent problem has been the lack of a place to play. No really good, accessible soccer fields.
Is there some reason that they haven't contracted to play at UNF's stadium? It seems like a good size stadium and might be more convenient for a lot of "soccer families" to attend.
Also, at the baseball grounds, on armada game nights does the city charge for parking? Going to baseball games, I often had to pay more for parking than tickets; perhaps that is a factor keeping people away.
US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.
tickets were a bit pricey for D2 soccer.
I didn't realize the NASL was in such bad shape. That's a real shame and it doesn't look to good for the Armada, to be honest - especially if they move their games to a school or something.
What about holding their games at the new IPF for the Jags in the future?
USMNT is a special event and contains players people are willing to drive to, pay to park, and buy concessions for.
The Armada is a team people are willing to drive to, not willing to pay to park and not willing to purchase the same level of concession for.
That means you need a less expensive venue that is easily accessible and has free parking.
While many kids are into soccer, many local dads arent, hence the term soccer moms.
Most dads would rather spend the $100 on something more special in their minds with their kids.
The USMNT friendly against Scotland at EB Field was the most fun I have ever had at a soccer game since I moved here. But its very hard to duplicate that experience on a regular basis.
Quote from: spuwho on December 08, 2016, 12:15:25 PM
USMNT is a special event and contains players people are willing to drive to, pay to park, and buy concessions for.
The Armada is a team people are willing to drive to, not willing to pay to park and not willing to purchase the same level of concession for.
That means you need a less expensive venue that is easily accessible and has free parking.
While many kids are into soccer, many local dads arent, hence the term soccer moms.
Most dads would rather spend the $100 on something more special in their minds with their kids.
The USMNT friendly against Scotland at EB Field was the most fun I have ever had at a soccer game since I moved here. But its very hard to duplicate that experience on a regular basis.
And international soccer brings out a lot of the casual fans who don't really follow soccer in general (alongside those who do, of course).
This really disappoints me. One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular. I even bought a shirt, already! Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league.
As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium. I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges. Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?
Quote from: JaxAvondale on December 07, 2016, 11:52:46 PM
US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.
I really do not ever see that happening.
I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL
Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.
It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.
Quote from: TimmyB on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM
This really disappoints me. One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular. I even bought a shirt, already! Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league.
As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium. I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges. Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?
Looks like you're going to be relegated to getting up at 7AM to travel to a stripmall and watch Arsenal matches with the knobheads from the "Jacksonville Gooners" ;D
Quote from: pierre on December 08, 2016, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: JaxAvondale on December 07, 2016, 11:52:46 PM
US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.
I really do not ever see that happening.
I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL
Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.
It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.
Does the Orlando MLS franchise have a "farm team" of any type? It seems like that would be such a natural fit, if they went that direction.
Maybe Ron Sholes can buy the team and expand his money-laundering-through-minor-league-sports operation. I'm not saying the Jacksonville Giants are a money-laundering scheme, only that it's the only plausible explanation I can come up with to explain their continued existence.
Quote from: TimmyB on December 08, 2016, 12:35:45 PM
Quote from: pierre on December 08, 2016, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: JaxAvondale on December 07, 2016, 11:52:46 PM
US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.
I really do not ever see that happening.
I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL
Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.
It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.
Does the Orlando MLS franchise have a "farm team" of any type? It seems like that would be such a natural fit, if they went that direction.
their B team plays in Melbourne.
Quote from: fsquid on December 08, 2016, 02:24:13 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 08, 2016, 12:35:45 PM
Quote from: pierre on December 08, 2016, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: JaxAvondale on December 07, 2016, 11:52:46 PM
US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.
I really do not ever see that happening.
I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL
Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.
It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.
Does the Orlando MLS franchise have a "farm team" of any type? It seems like that would be such a natural fit, if they went that direction.
their B team plays in Melbourne.
OK. Thanks.
The Times Union picked up the story. Looks like Clayton Freeman's a Metro Jacksonville reader ;)
Quote
Posted December 7, 2016 10:09 pm
By Clayton Freeman clayton.freeman@jacksonville.com
NASL's struggles could mean changes for Armada in 2017
Comments
16 Share
<p>Armada defender Bryan Burke (7) moves the ball in a 2016 preseason game. The North American Soccer League has lost at least three teams, raising uncertainty about the Armada’s long-term direction. (The Florida Times-Union, Gary Lloyd McCullough) </p>
Armada defender Bryan Burke (7) moves the ball in a 2016 preseason game. The North American Soccer League has lost at least three teams, raising uncertainty about the Armada's long-term direction. (The Florida Times-Union, Gary Lloyd McCullough)
The future is becoming increasingly unclear for the Jacksonville Armada.
With three teams officially exiting the North American Soccer League, and more perhaps to follow, the next two weeks appear crucial for the league's future - and could determine what Armada soccer will look like in 2017.
"It is my intention to keep the sport of professional soccer alive in Jacksonville and I am working with my leadership team at the Armada to develop a strategy that does just that," Armada owner Mark Frisch said in a statement late Wednesday. "Jacksonville's soccer fans have proven that it is a viable market – and we are working hard to make sure our vision for the future comes to fruition."
...
Should the NASL collapse - and perhaps even if it doesn't - the Armada's future could involve following Tampa Bay and Ottawa to the USL, the third-level league in 2016.
...
Whatever the league, though, the Armada has its own challenges in 2017.
Average attendances have plummeted from an average of 7,927 in Jacksonville's inaugural season to 3,499 in 2016 - a decline of about 55 percent. At the lowest point, the Armada drew just 1,254 on Oct. 12 against the Indy Eleven.
Sharp cutbacks took effect in August and September, when the Armada scaled back its game-day expenditures at the Baseball Grounds, stopped sending public relations employees for road games and slashed its budget for support staff.
Those cuts intensified on Dec. 1, when six established employees in departments ranging from communications to marketing to corporate partnerships were dropped from the club's website.
http://jacksonville.com/sports/2016-12-07/nasl-s-struggles-could-mean-changes-armada-2017
Quote from: fsquid on December 08, 2016, 02:24:13 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 08, 2016, 12:35:45 PM
Quote from: pierre on December 08, 2016, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: JaxAvondale on December 07, 2016, 11:52:46 PM
US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.
I really do not ever see that happening.
I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL
Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.
It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.
Does the Orlando MLS franchise have a "farm team" of any type? It seems like that would be such a natural fit, if they went that direction.
their B team plays in Melbourne.
Not anymore, they are moving them to their MLS stadium for at least next season. They may move them out after a season or two, though it probably still be in the central florida area (probably the practice facility/small grounds they are building where the Pride will move after next season as well)
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on December 09, 2016, 07:30:41 AM
I vaguely knew Frisch growing up and he's a good dude, but I think he was out of his element from the get-go. I saw a lot of classic minor league mistakes, like over-staffing the front office-- they had a dang general counsel on staff for goodness sake, which was completely unnecessary.
Well said
http://www.empireofsoccer.com/sources-jacksonville-armada-leave-nasl-target-usl-move-56140/
According to this site, the Armada are leaving the NASL to make a bid in the USL. That means they're joining the Tampa Bay and Ottawa teams. The budget reductions may be an attempt to get ready for that move. Unfortunately, Frisch may be looking to get out. However, regardless of what happens, there are hopeful signs for the future of the Armada/soccer in Jax, as there is interest from other owners in having soccer here.
The article mentions that the high cost ($70k a game or more) of the Baseball Grounds is an issue for the Armada and would be even more so in the USL. UNF and JU may "serve to solve the team's short term stadium needs" if they leave the Baseball Grounds. However neither are going to be great for drawing crowds. Methinks the stadium issue will continue to hamstring the team or any other that wants to play here.
Quote from: Adam White on December 08, 2016, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM
This really disappoints me. One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular. I even bought a shirt, already! Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league.
As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium. I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges. Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?
Looks like you're going to be relegated to getting up at 7AM to travel to a stripmall and watch Arsenal matches with the knobheads from the "Jacksonville Gooners" ;D
Good Lord, how did I not see this response from you, Adam? Somehow, I completely missed it, until just now! Too funny. I'll get up at seven, alright, but I wouldn't walk as far as my couch to see arsenal play! Once Mkhitaryan heals that ankle, my boys will be just fine.
I'm still disappointed if the Armada fold up shop, though. First, the Suns name debacle, now this. Not the way I want to enter my new home.
Quote from: TimmyB on December 12, 2016, 04:11:11 PM
Quote from: Adam White on December 08, 2016, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM
This really disappoints me. One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular. I even bought a shirt, already! Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league.
As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium. I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges. Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?
Looks like you're going to be relegated to getting up at 7AM to travel to a stripmall and watch Arsenal matches with the knobheads from the "Jacksonville Gooners" ;D
Good Lord, how did I not see this response from you, Adam? Somehow, I completely missed it, until just now! Too funny. I'll get up at seven, alright, but I wouldn't walk as far as my couch to see arsenal play! Once Mkhitaryan heals that ankle, my boys will be just fine.
I'm still disappointed if the Armada fold up shop, though. First, the Suns name debacle, now this. Not the way I want to enter my new home.
I missed the match on Sunday and couldn't bring myself to watch Match of the Day for the highlights.
The Armada news is disappointing - but Orlando isn't that far away.
Quote from: Adam White on December 12, 2016, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 12, 2016, 04:11:11 PM
Quote from: Adam White on December 08, 2016, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM
This really disappoints me. One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular. I even bought a shirt, already! Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league.
As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium. I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges. Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?
Looks like you're going to be relegated to getting up at 7AM to travel to a stripmall and watch Arsenal matches with the knobheads from the "Jacksonville Gooners" ;D
Good Lord, how did I not see this response from you, Adam? Somehow, I completely missed it, until just now! Too funny. I'll get up at seven, alright, but I wouldn't walk as far as my couch to see arsenal play! Once Mkhitaryan heals that ankle, my boys will be just fine.
I'm still disappointed if the Armada fold up shop, though. First, the Suns name debacle, now this. Not the way I want to enter my new home.
I missed the match on Sunday and couldn't bring myself to watch Match of the Day for the highlights.
The Armada news is disappointing - but Orlando isn't that far away.
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta. I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment. I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things. You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc. I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
At this stage it sounds like they may just be downsizing in preparation of the move into the USL, as the NASL's disintegrating. It's a proven that minor league soccer can work here, and I hope Frisch can make it work with the Armada. But if not, there's other interest and someone else will step in before long.
I would say that he or any future owner needs to understand how much of an issue the stadium is going to be. $70k a game at the Baseball Grounds is going to be hard to recover, and there really aren't any other places to play without serious disadvantages. They need to come prepared to build their own facility in a decent location.
Quote from: Tacachale on December 12, 2016, 05:36:07 PM
It's a proven that minor league soccer can work here, and I hope Frisch can make it work with the Armada. But if not, there's other interest and someone else will step in before long.
I would say that he or any future owner needs to understand how much of an issue the stadium is going to be.
^Totally agree with this point. For a city our size, we have a plethora of top-notch, specific-use facilities. Everbank for the Jaguars. The Baseball Grounds for the team formerly known as the Suns. The symphony hall for the JSO. The Sharks and Giants have Veteran's Memorial. You just can't stick a professional soccer franchise in a borrowed baseball stadium (at $70k a game) or at a high school or college campus and expect people to care. There are too many competing options, and the city has been burned too many times by fly-by-night franchises. You need a sense of quality and permanence that can't be provided using our existing facilities.
I honestly believe that for soccer to be truly successful here, we need a soccer-specific stadium. Not just a soccer field with bleachers surrounding a pitch, but a modern, 4,000 to 6,000 seat stadium that can be scaled when, and only when, demand dictates (it's impossible to overstate how many of the Jaguars blackout and attendance "problems" could have been solved by building a market-appropriate stadium).
Here's San Antonio's Toyota Field for an example of a scaleable soccer-specific stadium:
(https://snag.gy/0TtebV.jpg)
Quote from: Tacachale on December 12, 2016, 05:36:07 PM
They need to come prepared to build their own facility in a decent location.
^To do it right, in a decent location, is going to be very expensive. With city subsidies/bed taxes already stretched thin by Daily's Place and Everbank improvements, it may prove difficult to find someone willing to bankroll a USL team here. That's where I think it might be at least worth taking a look at what Orlando did for their soccer-specific stadium. Though the stadium was privately financed by team ownership, Orlando donated a $4 million parcel of downtown land for construction of the stadium.
I'm normally not a huge fan of using waterfront property for sports facilities, but in my opinion, this parcel would make a lot of sense for a soccer-specific stadium:
(https://snag.gy/vKsinx.jpg)
It's in the immediate vicinity of the existing sports complex, adjacent to Everbank's largest parking lot. It's directly connected to the JTA's proposed Skyway corridor on Bay Street. It's right between the Metro Park development that Shad Khan is pitching and the park/development under consideration for the Shipyards. You'd probably save money on remediation by developing for stadium use.
And, best of all, you could build horseshoe-style, overlooking the St. Johns toward the District, similar to San Jose's MLS Avaya Stadium, giving every single seat a stunning river view that no other Jacksonville sporting facility provides. You could even front the stadium with the riverwalk, providing an interesting, if obstructed, view in for pedestrians, boaters, those across the river at the District, etc.
(http://sanjose-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/styles/image_default/s3/images/Avaya%20Stadium%20-%20San%20Jose%20Earthquakes%20-%20Aerial%20Shot.jpg)
(https://snag.gy/yDSfoF.jpg)
And, if we're thinking long term, this is the type of location and stadium that the MLS absolutely eats up. Urban. Unique. Soon-to-be adjacent to "mass" transit, dining, hotel, entertainment. And that's gotta be our end-game with any thinking we do about a soccer stadium. We can hope, but we can't put all of our eggs into the Jags staying in the city forever.
If we can find a franchisee willing to build in exchange for that parcel of land, who says no?
Quote from: Tacachale on December 12, 2016, 03:42:08 PM
http://www.empireofsoccer.com/sources-jacksonville-armada-leave-nasl-target-usl-move-56140/
According to this site, the Armada are leaving the NASL to make a bid in the USL. That means they're joining the Tampa Bay and Ottawa teams. The budget reductions may be an attempt to get ready for that move. Unfortunately, Frisch may be looking to get out. However, regardless of what happens, there are hopeful signs for the future of the Armada/soccer in Jax, as there is interest from other owners in having soccer here.
The article mentions that the high cost ($70k a game or more) of the Baseball Grounds is an issue for the Armada and would be even more so in the USL. UNF and JU may "serve to solve the team's short term stadium needs" if they leave the Baseball Grounds. However neither are going to be great for drawing crowds. Methinks the stadium issue will continue to hamstring the team or any other that wants to play here.
Not sure I see Frisch wanting to get out as a bad thing. The team has been a disaster under his watch.
And I agree about the stadium. Unless the team is able to play in a soccer stadium, I don't see it lasting long.
And I don't know that I see the city forking over money to build a facility.
We could definitely make a soccer stadium work downtown. Here is what is being proposed in Tampa.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/07/mls2stpete-tampa-bay-rowdies-launch-mls-expansion-bid
Jacksonville Armada move to terminate all player contracts:
http://www.empireofsoccer.com/jacksonville-armada-terminate-all-player-contracts-56384/
Sounds like either they're folding, or trying to get under budget for the USL move.
Damn. You have to think at this point that the Armada are done.
Too bad. I had fun at their games, especially the first year. It's a shame they were not better run.
Now they get to be added to the pile of dozens of failed minor league teams in this town.
Quote from: Tacachale on December 14, 2016, 02:28:18 PM
Jacksonville Armada move to terminate all player contracts:
http://www.empireofsoccer.com/jacksonville-armada-terminate-all-player-contracts-56384/
Sounds like either they're folding, or trying to get under budget for the USL move.
:'( :'( :'(
Armada deny reports that they released ALL of their players, confirm release of 5
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/soccer/armada-fc/armada-denies-reports-of-club-releasing-all-players/370046452
Quote from: nbace on December 14, 2016, 03:42:13 PM
Armada deny reports that they released ALL of their players, confirm release of 5
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/soccer/armada-fc/armada-denies-reports-of-club-releasing-all-players/370046452
Interesting. Hopefully a clearer picture will emerge soon. Understandably there's a lot of turmoil that comes out of such a shakeup as the NASL is facing now.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on December 13, 2016, 08:14:33 AM
I dont see Frisch getting out, personally. His pockets are deep, his wife's are even deeper, by like tenfold.
sorry, but your characterization is off
Quote from: nbace on December 14, 2016, 03:42:13 PM
Armada deny reports that they released ALL of their players, confirm release of 5
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/soccer/armada-fc/armada-denies-reports-of-club-releasing-all-players/370046452
From what I have read, they released their highest paid players.
That is being framed as a sign they are going to try and move to the USL.
I still have my doubts as they do not have a place to play. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive. The JU football field is artificial turf. The JU soccer stadium is probably too small. Maybe UNF?
Quote from: copperfiend on December 15, 2016, 07:59:47 AM
Quote from: nbace on December 14, 2016, 03:42:13 PM
Armada deny reports that they released ALL of their players, confirm release of 5
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/soccer/armada-fc/armada-denies-reports-of-club-releasing-all-players/370046452
From what I have read, they released their highest paid players.
That is being framed as a sign they are going to try and move to the USL.
I still have my doubts as they do not have a place to play. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive. The JU football field is artificial turf. The JU soccer stadium is probably too small. Maybe UNF?
Yeah, the redundancies start occurring when a club is relegated and has to trim its wages bill. It is possible they are going to pursue playing in the USL. Let's hope so!
Quote from: copperfiend on December 15, 2016, 07:59:47 AM
Quote from: nbace on December 14, 2016, 03:42:13 PM
Armada deny reports that they released ALL of their players, confirm release of 5
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/soccer/armada-fc/armada-denies-reports-of-club-releasing-all-players/370046452
From what I have read, they released their highest paid players.
That is being framed as a sign they are going to try and move to the USL.
I still have my doubts as they do not have a place to play. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive. The JU football field is artificial turf. The JU soccer stadium is probably too small. Maybe UNF?
I know they looked into playing at UNF before choosing the baseball Grounds. I haven't heard anything current to that effect. It would really be the only good alternative I can think of, besides maybe a high school football field somewhere.
Quote from: Tacachale on December 15, 2016, 08:10:16 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on December 15, 2016, 07:59:47 AM
Quote from: nbace on December 14, 2016, 03:42:13 PM
Armada deny reports that they released ALL of their players, confirm release of 5
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/soccer/armada-fc/armada-denies-reports-of-club-releasing-all-players/370046452
From what I have read, they released their highest paid players.
That is being framed as a sign they are going to try and move to the USL.
I still have my doubts as they do not have a place to play. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive. The JU football field is artificial turf. The JU soccer stadium is probably too small. Maybe UNF?
I know they looked into playing at UNF before choosing the baseball Grounds. I haven't heard anything current to that effect. It would really be the only good alternative I can think of, besides maybe a high school football field somewhere.
Yeah, it seems like the only viable option. And it can only be short term.
For the team to have any type of long term stability, there has to be some sort of soccer stadium in town. But who is going to pay for it?
Quote from: copperfiend on December 15, 2016, 08:16:25 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on December 15, 2016, 08:10:16 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on December 15, 2016, 07:59:47 AM
Quote from: nbace on December 14, 2016, 03:42:13 PM
Armada deny reports that they released ALL of their players, confirm release of 5
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/soccer/armada-fc/armada-denies-reports-of-club-releasing-all-players/370046452
From what I have read, they released their highest paid players.
That is being framed as a sign they are going to try and move to the USL.
I still have my doubts as they do not have a place to play. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive. The JU football field is artificial turf. The JU soccer stadium is probably too small. Maybe UNF?
I know they looked into playing at UNF before choosing the baseball Grounds. I haven't heard anything current to that effect. It would really be the only good alternative I can think of, besides maybe a high school football field somewhere.
Yeah, it seems like the only viable option. And it can only be short term.
For the team to have any type of long term stability, there has to be some sort of soccer stadium in town. But who is going to pay for it?
They'd have to build it themselves, I'd think. The city may help in some way, especially if it could be used for other things.
Quote from: KenFSU on December 12, 2016, 11:35:31 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on December 12, 2016, 05:36:07 PM
It's a proven that minor league soccer can work here, and I hope Frisch can make it work with the Armada. But if not, there's other interest and someone else will step in before long.
I would say that he or any future owner needs to understand how much of an issue the stadium is going to be.
^Totally agree with this point. For a city our size, we have a plethora of top-notch, specific-use facilities. Everbank for the Jaguars. The Baseball Grounds for the team formerly known as the Suns. The symphony hall for the JSO. The Sharks and Giants have Veteran's Memorial. You just can't stick a professional soccer franchise in a borrowed baseball stadium (at $70k a game) or at a high school or college campus and expect people to care. There are too many competing options, and the city has been burned too many times by fly-by-night franchises. You need a sense of quality and permanence that can't be provided using our existing facilities.
I honestly believe that for soccer to be truly successful here, we need a soccer-specific stadium. Not just a soccer field with bleachers surrounding a pitch, but a modern, 4,000 to 6,000 seat stadium that can be scaled when, and only when, demand dictates (it's impossible to overstate how many of the Jaguars blackout and attendance "problems" could have been solved by building a market-appropriate stadium).
Here's San Antonio's Toyota Field for an example of a scaleable soccer-specific stadium:
(https://snag.gy/0TtebV.jpg)
Quote from: Tacachale on December 12, 2016, 05:36:07 PM
They need to come prepared to build their own facility in a decent location.
^To do it right, in a decent location, is going to be very expensive. With city subsidies/bed taxes already stretched thin by Daily's Place and Everbank improvements, it may prove difficult to find someone willing to bankroll a USL team here. That's where I think it might be at least worth taking a look at what Orlando did for their soccer-specific stadium. Though the stadium was privately financed by team ownership, Orlando donated a $4 million parcel of downtown land for construction of the stadium.
I'm normally not a huge fan of using waterfront property for sports facilities, but in my opinion, this parcel would make a lot of sense for a soccer-specific stadium:
It's in the immediate vicinity of the existing sports complex, adjacent to Everbank's largest parking lot. It's directly connected to the JTA's proposed Skyway corridor on Bay Street. It's right between the Metro Park development that Shad Khan is pitching and the park/development under consideration for the Shipyards. You'd probably save money on remediation by developing for stadium use.
And, best of all, you could build horseshoe-style, overlooking the St. Johns toward the District, similar to San Jose's MLS Avaya Stadium, giving every single seat a stunning river view that no other Jacksonville sporting facility provides. You could even front the stadium with the riverwalk, providing an interesting, if obstructed, view in for pedestrians, boaters, those across the river at the District, etc.
And, if we're thinking long term, this is the type of location and stadium that the MLS absolutely eats up. Urban. Unique. Soon-to-be adjacent to "mass" transit, dining, hotel, entertainment. And that's gotta be our end-game with any thinking we do about a soccer stadium. We can hope, but we can't put all of our eggs into the Jags staying in the city forever.
If we can find a franchisee willing to build in exchange for that parcel of land, who says no?
With the flex field being built behind the south end zone of Everbank, I wonder if the current practice fields used by the Jags could be utilized as space for a stadium. I heard that rumored as a potential stadium site not long after the Armada's first season ended.
^Only problem is that the new flex field is intended to allow for practice during inclement weather, not replace the existing practice fields.
Punting, for example, wouldn't be possible with the 80' clearance at Daily's Place.
From Twitter:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1mtRdGUQAEfStC.jpg)
None of this sounds like it will end well. Two second tier leagues?? That doesn't sound viable in the long term. I hope somehow Jacksonville ends up keeping the team one way or another.
The USL now has 30 teams and have attained 2nd-division status. The NASL has 6 teams, 7 if Jax is solvent, and also 2nd division status. Things don't look so hot for the Armada, even if the league DOES buy the team.
The Federation will decide on 1 second tier league at the end of 2017 and it is highly unlikely to be NASL. They need to add at least 5 teams, which still wouldn't guarantee them being chosen. In terms of moving forward, we are going to need a new ownership group to start a team in USL.
Quote from: Gamblor on January 08, 2017, 11:57:34 AM
The Federation will decide on 1 second tier league at the end of 2017 and it is highly unlikely to be NASL. They need to add at least 5 teams, which still wouldn't guarantee them being chosen. In terms of moving forward, we are going to need a new ownership group to start a team in USL.
Sadly, just by reading on this forum the way things are run in Jacksonville, there will be a guy who announces just that and then, we wait.
...
...
...
And, ...
Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?
According to the Times-Union, the NASL is taking over the Armada pending a sale to new owners. There are apparently a number of groups interested in buying the team/starting a new one, as Jax is considered a solid D2 soccer market, so the sale will probably go through before too long (or else another team will come in to replace them). Unlike some other teams, the Armada apparently couldn't bolt to the USL because they've still got a year left on their 3-year guaranteed play contract. It was either NASL or fold. The league takeover makes sense for the NASL, as the league would probably have folded without them, and/or a new USL franchise would come in right behind them to snap up this market.
In the article Frisch mentioned that the Baseball Grounds was part of the team's problem, though he blamed it on the sight lines and atmosphere. I don't buy that; they were drawing crowds 5-9k crowds there their first year. I imagine the real problem was the $70k a game cost of converting the stadium for soccer that did them in. They ended up cutting a bunch of staff (including the ones who really knew how to sell tickets) and that's usually death knell for minor league sports in these parts.
Bottom line, we'll probably be seeing D2 soccer here for some time. I can't imagine they'll play at the Baseball Grounds anymore, but there are problems with any available options here in town. I've said it before, but future owners need to give serious thought to building a new soccer-specific stadium in some easily accessible part of town.
Quote from: remc86007 on January 08, 2017, 06:49:13 PM
Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?
USL doesnt have a reason too. In the last few years they have boomed to 30 teams, and coped well with the loss of major franchises like Portland, Seattle, and Orlando to the MLS. Also they are plucking the teams they want from NASL, and I'll wager come January 2018 they'll be the only D2 league in the USA. Whether NASL is dead or alive (and restructuring for a D3 future) is the question.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 08, 2017, 10:25:40 PM
Bottom line, we'll probably be seeing D2 soccer here for some time. I can't imagine they'll play at the Baseball Grounds anymore, but there are problems with any available options here in town. I've said it before, but future owners need to give serious thought to building a new soccer-specific stadium in some easily accessible part of town.
I agree things look D2 for the future. This round of MLS expansion seems pretty locked up with I believe Sacramento (last rounds runner up whose bid has only gotten stronger) getting their card stamped and either Cinci, St. Louis or Charlotte getting the other team (stadium/political backing/marketing issues). But I'm with you, getting a suitable venue will fix a lot of issues. The baseball grounds conversion cost had to be an issue, and definitely a much larger one than the expected quirks of watching a soccer game at a baseball stadium. At times watching games at the baseball grounds was nice, it has a distinct feel, but its not the same as the team having its own home to grow in. Since we're some what on the subject, can we beg Shad for one? Maybe something kind of Craven Cottage esque, but Jacksonville appropriate on the St. Johns? Sorry to go there and I kind of mean this as a joke, but... isn't there an rfp going? 8)
Quote from: remc86007 on January 08, 2017, 06:49:13 PM
Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?
Money! They offer competing products - in a manner of speaking. They (well, the NASL and the USL's predecessor) were actually in direct competition to be the second division a few years ago, I think.
The NASL is toast, and it looks like the Armada are going down with them.
Quote from: Adam White on January 09, 2017, 02:21:24 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on January 08, 2017, 06:49:13 PM
Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?
Money! They offer competing products - in a manner of speaking. They (well, the NASL and the USL's predecessor) were actually in direct competition to be the second division a few years ago, I think.
Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?
Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?
Quote from: remc86007 on January 09, 2017, 12:56:30 PM
Quote from: Adam White on January 09, 2017, 02:21:24 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on January 08, 2017, 06:49:13 PM
Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?
Money! They offer competing products - in a manner of speaking. They (well, the NASL and the USL's predecessor) were actually in direct competition to be the second division a few years ago, I think.
Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?
Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?
I think the last time they had a dispute, they were forced to work together for a while. But I am not sure - I'm only so familair with minor league soccer! What's crazy is that the USL has so many teams and the NASL has so few. At least MLS seems to be doing okay.
Quote from: remc86007 on January 09, 2017, 12:56:30 PM
Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?
Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?
The USL has won the battle here, they were D3 and their promotion to D2 is another death bell for NASL. The Federation would never force them to take over the losing competitor in the NASL and those teams debts. However the USL has been very open to accepting NASL teams, and that's all you can really ask for.
Quote from: Gamblor on January 09, 2017, 01:46:56 PM
Quote from: remc86007 on January 09, 2017, 12:56:30 PM
Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?
Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?
The USL has won the battle here, they were D3 and their promotion to D2 is another death bell for NASL. The Federation would never force them to take over the losing competitor in the NASL and those teams debts. However the USL has been very open to accepting NASL teams, and that's all you can really ask for.
Both leagues only have provisional D2 sanctioning, meaning they don't meet all qualifications. More NASL teams individually fit the bill, but the league is unstable. The USL is mores stable, but a number of their teams are bush league, or are just MLS reserves. While it's unlikely there will be 2 D2 leagues after the year, it seems likelier that there will be a restructuring of some kind.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 09, 2017, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: Gamblor on January 09, 2017, 01:46:56 PM
Quote from: remc86007 on January 09, 2017, 12:56:30 PM
Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?
Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?
The USL has won the battle here, they were D3 and their promotion to D2 is another death bell for NASL. The Federation would never force them to take over the losing competitor in the NASL and those teams debts. However the USL has been very open to accepting NASL teams, and that's all you can really ask for.
Both leagues only have provisional D2 sanctioning, meaning they don't meet all qualifications. More NASL teams individually fit the bill, but the league is unstable. The USL is mores stable, but a number of their teams are bush league, or are just MLS reserves. While it's unlikely there will be 2 D2 leagues after the year, it seems likelier that there will be a restructuring of some kind.
Yah but USL was D3 last season and NASL's D2 status wasn't provisional. The arrows are clearly pointing in opposite directions for the leagues, and if restructuring happens it will be NASL as D3. Also, saying USL is bush league and NASL isn't, is laughable at this point.
Quote from: Gamblor on January 09, 2017, 02:34:42 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 09, 2017, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: Gamblor on January 09, 2017, 01:46:56 PM
Quote from: remc86007 on January 09, 2017, 12:56:30 PM
Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?
Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?
The USL has won the battle here, they were D3 and their promotion to D2 is another death bell for NASL. The Federation would never force them to take over the losing competitor in the NASL and those teams debts. However the USL has been very open to accepting NASL teams, and that's all you can really ask for.
Both leagues only have provisional D2 sanctioning, meaning they don't meet all qualifications. More NASL teams individually fit the bill, but the league is unstable. The USL is mores stable, but a number of their teams are bush league, or are just MLS reserves. While it's unlikely there will be 2 D2 leagues after the year, it seems likelier that there will be a restructuring of some kind.
Yah but USL was D3 last season and NASL's D2 status wasn't provisional. The arrows are clearly pointing in opposite directions for the leagues, and if restructuring happens it will be NASL as D3. Also, saying USL is bush league and NASL isn't, is laughable at this point.
I said some of the USL's *teams* are bush league or MLS reserves, because they are. They have some very solid teams, better off than any NASL team, but then some that are literally just reserves for MLS. Orlando has one that plays at a community college rec center in Brevard County and draws smaller crowds than UCF's college soccer team (less than a thousand people), despite Orlando being one of the strongest MLS franchises. That's not AAA sports, as division 2 soccer is supposed to be.
NASL was "provisional" in the past in the sense that it has never met all the D2 requirements. Neither league meets them now, and I can't imagine USL will be able to pull it off without bumping a good chunk of their teams down. I think a restructuring would be more like the top teams from both current leagues go into a D2 league and the others go to a D3 league. Or, they'll change the standards to be a lot more lax.
The news is out that the Armada will be playing at Hodges Stadium at UNF for the next season. This should get help the team immensely by getting rid of that $70k a game cost to play at the Baseball Grounds, though it won't have the same atmosphere or good location.
http://jacksonville.com/armada-fc/2017-02-06/armada-play-2017-season-unf?utm_medium=social&utm_source=The_Florida_Times-Union
UNF is nowhere near an ideal location or venue. But I don't think the team had many choices.
To me, it still feels like just delaying the inevitable. The Armada will not survive without some sort of small soccer specific stadium. I am not holding my breath on that ever happening.
Quote from: pierre on February 06, 2017, 12:07:57 PM
UNF is nowhere near an ideal location or venue. But I don't think the team had many choices.
To me, it still feels like just delaying the inevitable. The Armada will not survive without some sort of small soccer specific stadium. I am not holding my breath on that ever happening.
I don't know the detail of the needs for soccer stadium, but would it have been impossible to incorporate this into the new Jags practice field?
^The Jags practice field doesn't really have stands like a stadium does. Could it have possibly been done? In concept yes but I'm not sure the plot of land they used would have held it, plus when you start building for common stadium amenities such as restrooms and concession stands (the amphitheater will share the stadium's facilities in this regard), the cost rises dramatically. Guessing Khan wouldn't have wanted to front that bill without some sort of guarantee from the team.
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on February 06, 2017, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: pierre on February 06, 2017, 12:07:57 PM
UNF is nowhere near an ideal location or venue. But I don't think the team had many choices.
To me, it still feels like just delaying the inevitable. The Armada will not survive without some sort of small soccer specific stadium. I am not holding my breath on that ever happening.
I don't know the detail of the needs for soccer stadium, but would it have been impossible to incorporate this into the new Jags practice field?
Here's what the Dallas Cowboys did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3to0s4G5KA
1:00 minute mark.
Space and cost considerations aside, I'd hope that any soccer specific stadium we did build would be open air.
It would have been cool to have a venue that could double as a field for football and soccer as well as concerts, which easily could fit the space they're using. However, it would have taken a lot of coordination to pull it off, and given what's happened with the Armada and their league, it wouldn't exactly have been a safe bet. I've said before, but if anyone is planning on making D2 soccer work here, they should be prepared to build their own arena in a good location.
I always thought the amphitheater seating could look out over the practice facility if they open the big doors that separate. Kind of stupid if it can't. I figured that would be used during training camp for fans.
Quote from: FlaBoy on February 07, 2017, 10:42:47 AM
I always thought the amphitheater seating could look out over the practice facility if they open the big doors that separate. Kind of stupid if it can't. I figured that would be used during training camp for fans.
It can, but based on the renders, it will be more a glimpse of the practice facility than a full panoramic view:
(http://media.news4jax.com/photo/2016/08/19/dailys%20place%20rendering%205_1471619718493_7746798_ver1.0_1280_720.PNG)
Quote from: KenFSU on February 07, 2017, 01:50:07 PM
Quote from: FlaBoy on February 07, 2017, 10:42:47 AM
I always thought the amphitheater seating could look out over the practice facility if they open the big doors that separate. Kind of stupid if it can't. I figured that would be used during training camp for fans.
It can, but based on the renders, it will be more a glimpse of the practice facility than a full panoramic view:
(http://media.news4jax.com/photo/2016/08/19/dailys%20place%20rendering%205_1471619718493_7746798_ver1.0_1280_720.PNG)
I feel like that is a mistake. Why not allow the 5,500 seats to be able to overlook the field. There are lots of cool things that could be done with that level of flexibility including hosting Jaguars scrimmages, training camp, professional soccer, small college football (like JU), big high school football games, or just opening it up for conventions to give a bigger feel.
Hate like hell to see yet another league and team fold but before SI jumps on this with it's usual derogatory remarks... 'THIS IS NOT JACKSONVILLE'S FAULT BOYZ!'
Probably should have continued to promote and run with stories of our smashing successes and attendance with special event Futbal then jump on the MLS wagon when it came rolling past. Anyone else recall the USFL and the BULLS or the WFL SHARKS and EXPRESS? Yeah, that's what happens when you go minor league in a big league city and Tampa (See: Buccaneers) laughed all the way to the goal line.
So what to do? I'd still seek MLS membership using the MAJOR SOCCER events as my credit card... Failing that, rename the team 'The Jumbo Toadfish' and move south, I hear that the Orange Park Kindergarten has a nice playground. Hey it works for Baseball.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 08, 2017, 04:47:18 PM
Hate like hell to see yet another league and team fold but before SI jumps on this with it's usual derogatory remarks... 'THIS IS NOT JACKSONVILLE'S FAULT BOYZ!'
Probably should have continued to promote and run with stories of our smashing successes and attendance with special event Futbal then jump on the MLS wagon when it came rolling past. Anyone else recall the USFL and the BULLS or the WFL SHARKS and EXPRESS? Yeah, that's what happens when you go minor league in a big league city and Tampa (See: Buccaneers) laughed all the way to the goal line.
So what to do? I'd still seek MLS membership using the MAJOR SOCCER events as my credit card... Failing that, rename the team 'The Jumbo Toadfish' and move south, I hear that the Orange Park Kindergarten has a nice playground. Hey it works for Baseball.
The USFL Bulls were a smashing success and something that got us on the road to the NFL.
I had a chance to talk a bit about the Armada at the Icemen launch today. They were really hit hard by the costs associated with the Baseball Grounds, and no doubt the UNF Hodges Arena will be a much better fit for them. There's no reason D2 soccer can't be a success here in Jax.
Oh I believe we agree on the BULLS, however, we would have been on the NFL rolls much earlier had we not flirted with the minor leagues. Jake was a man on a mission.
As far as UNF, yes, nice facility but I'll contend till I die that Jacksonville needs to quit thinking like Middleburg and start acting and chasing the dreams of a 1.5 Million person metro. Treat a city as it is and it will remain as it is. Treat a city as it can and should be and
it will become as it can and should be.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 08, 2017, 05:21:23 PM
Oh I believe we agree on the BULLS, however, we would have been on the NFL rolls much earlier had we not flirted with the minor leagues. Jake was a man on a mission.
As far as UNF, yes, nice facility but I'll contend till I die that Jacksonville needs to quit thinking like Middleburg and start acting and chasing the dreams of a 1.5 Million person metro. Treat a city as it is and it will remain as it is. Treat a city as it can and should be and
it will become as it can and should be.
I think that's where you're wrong. Success in minor leagues is often a major factor in getting teams in the top flight. We got the Jags a lot sooner than anyone ever expected because we'd proven ourselves a good football town that wasn't giving up, and part of that was the success of teams like the Bulls. It's even more so with soccer, where many of the MLS expansions have been to cities that had successful minor league teams. In fact, a lot of their most successful teams (Seattle, Orlando, Vancouver, Portland, and now soon to be Minneapolis) started out in lower levels and moved up. If we ever get MLS in Jax, the success of the Armada will be a factor.
^While you're right on about minor leagues and teams growing in minors before MLS, he is right about dreaming bigger. Playing at UNF has to be temporary, and like we have said many times, they need a home of their own in a better location.
Quote from: Gamblor on February 09, 2017, 08:51:20 PM
^While you're right on about minor leagues and teams growing in minors before MLS, he is right about dreaming bigger. Playing at UNF has to be temporary, and like we have said many times, they need a home of their own in a better location.
I agree with both of you on this. Jax needs to set its sights higher, but you can make yourself look ridiculous, as well. Grand Rapids, the 2nd biggest city in Michigan had minor league teams, but they were poorly supported and folded quite often. Why? Well, the GR CBA team played in a HS gymnasium, complete with wooden foldout bleachers. The IHL team played in a barn of an arena that was built in the pre-WWII era. The baseball was semi-pro, at best, played in a nice little park that had real seating for maybe 500. People always claimed GR would not support their teams. Then, someone with money came in and built a great baseball stadium and a Class "A" team came to town. Attendance has never been an issue. Someone else built a beautiful 12,000 seat arena in downtown and what do you know, a well-supported hockey team! If you have the right people who actually give a darn about their town AND have the financial resources to do it right, it can make all the difference.
Quote from: Tacachale on December 07, 2016, 03:09:34 PM
It appears the Armada's league, the NASL, is about to collapse. Some teams are jumping ship to the rival USL, which is currently Division III behind MLS and the NASL, and others are about to fold.
The Armada, after having an average attendance of nearly 8k in their first year, dropped down to 3,499 this year. The news has been reporting for weeks that they're laying off staff, and they fired many of their front office people well before that. Sports Illustrated (http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/12/03/nasl-new-york-cosmos-future-us-soccer-usl-meetings) reported that "The Jacksonville Armada have financial concerns, according to sources," while Fourfourtwo.com (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/nasl-future-demise-new-york-cosmos-usl-second-division-soccer#S2UKYUw3PwAxYwcB.99) says that "The Jacksonville Armada, also reportedly cutting back its permanent staff, currently planning to downgrade to a high school facility for the 2017 season, have stayed committed to the NASL..."
Doesn't sound too good. Leaving downtown, let alone playing at a high school, is usually a nail in the coffin for Jacksonville sports teams.
SMH Jacksonville should have never bothered. Orlando City games are one the weekends. Thats the best move for Jacksonville soccer fans. MLS should go no where else in Florida but Orlando. That is just where it works.
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 23, 2017, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on December 07, 2016, 03:09:34 PM
It appears the Armada's league, the NASL, is about to collapse. Some teams are jumping ship to the rival USL, which is currently Division III behind MLS and the NASL, and others are about to fold.
The Armada, after having an average attendance of nearly 8k in their first year, dropped down to 3,499 this year. The news has been reporting for weeks that they're laying off staff, and they fired many of their front office people well before that. Sports Illustrated (http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/12/03/nasl-new-york-cosmos-future-us-soccer-usl-meetings) reported that "The Jacksonville Armada have financial concerns, according to sources," while Fourfourtwo.com (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/nasl-future-demise-new-york-cosmos-usl-second-division-soccer#S2UKYUw3PwAxYwcB.99) says that "The Jacksonville Armada, also reportedly cutting back its permanent staff, currently planning to downgrade to a high school facility for the 2017 season, have stayed committed to the NASL..."
Doesn't sound too good. Leaving downtown, let alone playing at a high school, is usually a nail in the coffin for Jacksonville sports teams.
SMH Jacksonville should have never bothered. Orlando City games are one the weekends. Thats the best move for Jacksonville soccer fans. MLS should go no where else in Florida but Orlando. That is just where it works.
Um, the Armada aren't in MLS. They're NASL, which is division II. They are coming back at least for the next year, and at any rate they've proven that DII soccer will work in Jax.
Quote from: TimmyB on December 12, 2016, 04:59:43 PM
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta. I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment. I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things. You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc. I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
Jacksonville is just not that type of place. Sadly folks just have to come to terms with the fact only the NFL and milb will work there. Soccer was never big in Atlanta. When I moved to Atlanta in 08 none of fans cared about it. They supported the national teams when they came to town, just like Jacksonville does, but it took a few things to happen in Atlanta for soccer to actually work. Social media was a major factor because for a long time main stream media wasnt checking for the MLS. It just howl like they treat the Jaguars. Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters try to imitate or emulate the those leagues. Social media is what spread that Supporter culture around the US. In Atlanta we had a lot of crap going on between the Braves, Hawks, Thrashers and Falcons. Falcons wanted a new stadium but the city didnt want to pay for it. Braves wanted a new stadium and did some underhanded deal with Cobb County to the north of the metro. The Thrashers were sold and moved to Canada. The Hawks sold to a new owner the new owner immediately started whining about Philip arena and needing a replacement arena for Atlanta. The Falcons owner Arthur Blank used all this chaos to his advantage. He basically got the ball rolling on replacing the GA Dome and made sure that the replacement could also be used as a soccer stadium full time. It was a genius move. Orlando started making moves to get into the MLS and Arthur Blank did the same. What made it the perfect storm was the Braves underhanded deals with Cobb County that turned a lot of Atlanta people against them. That set up room for fans to be crazy excited for Atlanta United and fans are absolutely bonkers for them too. Jacksonville just doesnt have that. Its still pretty much a tackle football city. Playing soccer in someone else's field is bad. No one wants to watch. Soccer has a certain atmosphere that only a SSS can pull off. Empty seats is a NO NO.
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 23, 2017, 05:13:47 PM
Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters try to imitate or emulate the those leagues.
And it all rings so hollow. It's such a blatant affectation and it's really embarrassing. It would be great to see Americans develop their own soccer culture instead of trying to ape what they think are the traditions, behaviours, language, etc of foreign soccer fans.
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 23, 2017, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 12, 2016, 04:59:43 PM
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta. I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment. I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things. You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc. I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
In Atlanta we had a lot of crap going on between the Braves, Hawks, Thrashers and Falcons. Falcons wanted a new stadium but the city didnt want to pay for it. Braves wanted a new stadium and did some underhanded deal with Cobb County to the north of the metro.
I'm pretty sure there would be more than a few in ATL that would differ with your take on this. The City of Atlanta owned Turner Field and the Braves wanted BIG improvements to the stadium, to the city-owned parking, and to address the horrendous traffic in the area. Mayor Reed flat out turned them down, and one of the stated reasons was they already had $200 MILLION committed to MB Stadium. At that point, the Braves did the only other option that was viable and moved out of the city to a place where the local government was willing to work with them, not to mention, where the greatest percentage of their fans lived. There was nothing "underhanded" about it at all. The Braves gave the city every chance to work with them and Mayor Reed told them to spend their own money, because they were getting nothing more from Atlanta. So, that's what they did. And now, they own the stadium, they own the parking, and it's highly doubtful that the stands will be empty because of angry Atlantans. They might be empty because the team on the field sucks donkey, and has for three years, now, but that's another story, eh?
Quote from: Adam White on March 23, 2017, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 23, 2017, 05:13:47 PM
Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters try to imitate or emulate the those leagues.
And it all rings so hollow. It's such a blatant affectation and it's really embarrassing. It would be great to see Americans develop their own soccer culture instead of trying to ape what they think are the traditions, behaviours, language, etc of foreign soccer fans.
Sooo cheerleaders and a halftime show? ;D
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 23, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: Adam White on March 23, 2017, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 23, 2017, 05:13:47 PM
Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters try to imitate or emulate the those leagues.
And it all rings so hollow. It's such a blatant affectation and it's really embarrassing. It would be great to see Americans develop their own soccer culture instead of trying to ape what they think are the traditions, behaviours, language, etc of foreign soccer fans.
Sooo cheerleaders and a halftime show? ;D
Sorry, Crystal Palace has already gone down that road. <<barfs in mouth>>
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/TimmyB44/Crystals1_3273773b_zps7lfdsixw.jpg)
Timmy B beat me to it.
I think foam fingers and tailgating are two great American traditions that would carry over well. Definitely tailgating. And we do the wave (or, as the British call it, the 'Mexican wave'). That does occasionally creep into soccer matches over here - usually international ones.
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 23, 2017, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 12, 2016, 04:59:43 PM
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta. I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment. I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things. You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc. I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
Jacksonville is just not that type of place. Sadly folks just have to come to terms with the fact only the NFL and milb will work there. Soccer was never big in Atlanta. When I moved to Atlanta in 08 none of fans cared about it. They supported the national teams when they came to town, just like Jacksonville does, but it took a few things to happen in Atlanta for soccer to actually work. Social media was a major factor because for a long time main stream media wasnt checking for the MLS. It just howl like they treat the Jaguars. Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters try to imitate or emulate the those leagues. Social media is what spread that Supporter culture around the US. In Atlanta we had a lot of crap going on between the Braves, Hawks, Thrashers and Falcons. Falcons wanted a new stadium but the city didnt want to pay for it. Braves wanted a new stadium and did some underhanded deal with Cobb County to the north of the metro. The Thrashers were sold and moved to Canada. The Hawks sold to a new owner the new owner immediately started whining about Philip arena and needing a replacement arena for Atlanta. The Falcons owner Arthur Blank used all this chaos to his advantage. He basically got the ball rolling on replacing the GA Dome and made sure that the replacement could also be used as a soccer stadium full time. It was a genius move. Orlando started making moves to get into the MLS and Arthur Blank did the same. What made it the perfect storm was the Braves underhanded deals with Cobb County that turned a lot of Atlanta people against them. That set up room for fans to be crazy excited for Atlanta United and fans are absolutely bonkers for them too. Jacksonville just doesnt have that. Its still pretty much a tackle football city. Playing soccer in someone else's field is bad. No one wants to watch. Soccer has a certain atmosphere that only a SSS can pull off. Empty seats is a NO NO.
Much of that is incorrect. Atlanta MLS was in the works since the Falcons stadium has been proposed; it has really nothing to do with the Braves or Thrashers. Soccer is a growing niche in the US, and as the biggest metro in the Southeast, Atlanta is a good market for MLS regardless of all that other stuff.
The stadium thing has affected the Armada, but not nearly in the way you're saying. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive and there's not many other places to play. I expect they'll do just fine at UNF if they keep their marketing and gameday experience up. And if they don't, someone else will come in after them.
Oh, and the impact of an SSS is overstated. It's just one of several factors that can help. The most successful team in MLS is Seattle, and they play in a football stadium that holds more than any SSS in North America. Orlando has had major success at their (crappy) football stadium that also holds more than the SSS they're building at great cost a mile away. Empty seats don't hurt either of them. The new Atlanta team you're talking about will also play in a football stadium (that will officially double as a soccer stadium to skirt the MLS's SSS rules) and will probably do just fine.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 27, 2017, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 23, 2017, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on December 12, 2016, 04:59:43 PM
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta. I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment. I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things. You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc. I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
Jacksonville is just not that type of place. Sadly folks just have to come to terms with the fact only the NFL and milb will work there. Soccer was never big in Atlanta. When I moved to Atlanta in 08 none of fans cared about it. They supported the national teams when they came to town, just like Jacksonville does, but it took a few things to happen in Atlanta for soccer to actually work. Social media was a major factor because for a long time main stream media wasnt checking for the MLS. It just howl like they treat the Jaguars. Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters try to imitate or emulate the those leagues. Social media is what spread that Supporter culture around the US. In Atlanta we had a lot of crap going on between the Braves, Hawks, Thrashers and Falcons. Falcons wanted a new stadium but the city didnt want to pay for it. Braves wanted a new stadium and did some underhanded deal with Cobb County to the north of the metro. The Thrashers were sold and moved to Canada. The Hawks sold to a new owner the new owner immediately started whining about Philip arena and needing a replacement arena for Atlanta. The Falcons owner Arthur Blank used all this chaos to his advantage. He basically got the ball rolling on replacing the GA Dome and made sure that the replacement could also be used as a soccer stadium full time. It was a genius move. Orlando started making moves to get into the MLS and Arthur Blank did the same. What made it the perfect storm was the Braves underhanded deals with Cobb County that turned a lot of Atlanta people against them. That set up room for fans to be crazy excited for Atlanta United and fans are absolutely bonkers for them too. Jacksonville just doesnt have that. Its still pretty much a tackle football city. Playing soccer in someone else's field is bad. No one wants to watch. Soccer has a certain atmosphere that only a SSS can pull off. Empty seats is a NO NO.
Much of that is incorrect. Atlanta MLS was in the works since the Falcons stadium has been proposed; it has really nothing to do with the Braves or Thrashers. Soccer is a growing niche in the US, and as the biggest metro in the Southeast, Atlanta is a good market for MLS regardless of all that other stuff.
The stadium thing has affected the Armada, but not nearly in the way you're saying. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive and there's not many other places to play. I expect they'll do just fine at UNF if they keep their marketing and gameday experience up. And if they don't, someone else will come in after them.
Oh, and the impact of an SSS is overstated. It's just one of several factors that can help. The most successful team in MLS is Seattle, and they play in a football stadium that holds more than any SSS in North America. Orlando has had major success at their (crappy) football stadium that also holds more than the SSS they're building at great cost a mile away. Empty seats don't hurt either of them. The new Atlanta team you're talking about will also play in a football stadium (that will officially double as a soccer stadium to skirt the MLS's SSS rules) and will probably do just fine.
Horray for the newest technology...panel tarps... ;D
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/New_Atlanta_Stadium_MLS_configuration.jpg)
UNF may actually be a better location in some ways. We will see.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on March 27, 2017, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: Adam White on March 23, 2017, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 23, 2017, 05:13:47 PM
Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters try to imitate or emulate the those leagues.
And it all rings so hollow. It's such a blatant affectation and it's really embarrassing. It would be great to see Americans develop their own soccer culture instead of trying to ape what they think are the traditions, behaviours, language, etc of foreign soccer fans.
JESUS THIS X 100000000-- I AM LOOKING AT YOU HIPSTER DOUCHE WHO WENT TO HIS FIRST GAME, BOUGHT A SCARF AND A FLAG (BEFORE THE GAME EVE STARTED) AND STARTED CALLING YOURSELF A "SUPPORTER" INSTEAD OF A FAN AND STARTED ACTING LIKE YOU GREW UP IN BLOODY FUCKING BRITAIN.
Hey - that scarf cost me $20. I'm gonna wear it with pride - who cares if it's 98 degrees outside?
It will be intersting to see what the crowds will be. UNF is certainly closer for the kids in its youth academy.
http://jacksonville.com/sports/armada-fc/2017-07-15/new-owner-set-take-over-jacksonville-armada-soccer-team
New owner set to take over Jacksonville Armada soccer team..
Ryan Palmer of RP Funding
Go Polk County!
Quote from: Snaketoz on July 16, 2017, 03:41:54 PM
Ryan Palmer of RP Funding
do you mean Robert Palmer?
Interesting. Apparently a group associated with the USL (the other D2 league) was looking here as well.
Will continue beating this drum...
From the article, RP is paying $5 million in naming rights for the LAKELAND CENTER, and we continue to refuse to monetize ours.
Quote from: KenFSU on July 16, 2017, 08:52:32 PM
Will continue beating this drum...
From the article, RP is paying $5 million in naming rights for the LAKELAND CENTER, and we continue to refuse to monetize ours.
It is really nonsensical that the city won't do it.
Same with the baseball grounds.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 16, 2017, 05:44:45 PM
Quote from: Snaketoz on July 16, 2017, 03:41:54 PM
Ryan Palmer of RP Funding
do you mean Robert Palmer?
Yes, thank you. It is Robert. "Hi, I'm Robert Palmer".
KEN YOU DAMN COMMIE!!!
THIS IS THE US OF A WHERE WE BREAK INTO PAVLOVIAN PATRIOTIC JUBILATION AT MENTION OF THE HALLOWED WORD 'VETERAN.'
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT BRO
Quote from: fsquid on March 27, 2017, 04:51:48 PM
It will be intersting to see what the crowds will be. UNF is certainly closer for the kids in its youth academy.
This question has been answered. I think it was the right move for financial stability with costs being cut from renting the Baseball Grounds and only a small down tick in attendance.
QuoteThe club has since moved its home games to the University of North Florida's Hodges Stadium, drawing an average of 3,044 fans in its eight home games in 2017. That's a decrease of about 13 percent from last year.
Perhaps we probably could (at least help) finance a medium sized soccer stadium if we sold the naming rights to the arena...
I think a decrease of only 13% considering the less central location and increasing age of the franchise isn't bad.
It will be interesting to see if there were any stipulations for Robert Palmer in keeping the team as NASL moving forward rather than being able to move to the USL.
Quote from: remc86007 on July 17, 2017, 05:50:02 PM
Perhaps we probably could (at least help) finance a medium sized soccer stadium if we sold the naming rights to the arena...
I think a decrease of only 13% considering the less central location and increasing age of the franchise isn't bad.
The attendance had already fallen from almost 8k the year before that. The real cause was a decrease in marketing.
Quote from: remc86007 on July 17, 2017, 05:50:02 PM
Perhaps we probably could (at least help) finance a medium sized soccer stadium if we sold the naming rights to the arena...
I think a decrease of only 13% considering the less central location and increasing age of the franchise isn't bad.
I don't see how the Armada survive without a new venue. But I don't anybody lining up to pay for it, regardless of naming rights.
I don't necessarily agree. If the Armada restored their marketing budgets, I think they could average with the best of the other NASL or USL squads there at UNF with a winning squad. The location is actually not bad for their fan base with it being right off JTB, Beach, and 295. The team has been in absolute flux for a couple years. Let it continue to have a name and let Robert Palmer actually invest in it. Hopefully, there will be a clear Division II in the next couple years and Jacksonville will have a team in that Division II with a supportive owner. 5-7k a game is an attainable goal that would but them second in attendance for NASL and in the upper quarter of USL.
RP Funding is now the named sponsor officially as well.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/07/17/armada-fc-to-make-big-announcement-this-week.html
Good to hear the new owner mention the need for a permanent stadium.
Hopefully Palmer is able to handlet this role. Frisch was in over his head.
^ I disagree. Frisch just figured out their model was not working financially. He was trying to build a major-league franchise in a minor-league enivronment.
You can't help but feel pretty optimistic after this press conference. If he is looking for a practice facility similar to a lot of MLS squads, it seems like this would not be in the urban core but pretty exciting nonetheless.
QuotePalmer said the team may be interested in someday building its own stadium if the club and UNF don't continue their agreement past 2018. He said that he has looked into building a stadium of 6,000 to 8,000 seats. He's looking for land to begin a long-term project, one he hopes will start to take shape as early as 2018 with new practice fields.
Ultimately, Palmer envisions ambitious plans: a building that will house the offices of both the Armada and RP Funding, along with an apartment complex that includes player housing, a gym and a "world-class kitchen with a chef to cook for these guys."
Is Hodges, with some upgrades, considered a soccer specific stadium considering it is only used for soccer and track?
On the marketing note...
QuotePalmer said he has more than enough capital to fund the club, saying that the Armada's entire operating budget represents less than 20 percent of RP Funding's television and radio advertising budget.
He expects to put his advertising experience to work at once in Jacksonville.
"You'll have to be under a rock to not know that the Jacksonville Armada are playing a game on any given Saturday," he said.
And building on the partnership with UNF...
QuoteThe Armada also extended its UNF deal through next season, part of what Palmer hopes becomes a broader alliance with the college.
"The relationship that we're going to build with the university will span well beyond the Armada playing at Hodges," Palmer said.
Happer said that the club is exploring upgrades to the fan experience at Hodges Stadium, including a video board. He said the team is in discussions with the university and the cannon master of the National Park Service to bring back the Armada's once-famous cannon, which was silenced last August.
And his wife is a Providence grad and Jax native. This could work out pretty well.
Quote from: FlaBoy on July 19, 2017, 10:23:25 AM
Is Hodges, with some upgrades, considered a soccer specific stadium considering it is only used for soccer and track?
Unfortunately, any field that is shared with track is not going to work as a sport-specific stadium. The distance away from the field caused by the track itself, plus the curve of the ends of the track, means the fans are going to feel a mile from the action. In a crowd of this size, that will seem like you are in a cavern. I did PA work for about 30 years in the sport of volleyball and I can tell you, it's 100 times more exciting to have a crowd of 1000 in a 900-seat arena than to have a crowd of 2500 in a 6000 seat venue. I never got to see the Armada play at the BB grounds, but having attended a few Suns' games there, I knew that could not be a good situation. There is no way the crowd could feel as though they were part of the action. If Jax is going to have a long-term soccer franchise, it will need a better place than a track and field venue.
I agree with that. I don't see Hodges ever being a long term solution because of the track.
In college football, you used to see it a lot. But almost all of the tracks in stadiums have been removed.
If Palmer is able to build an entire complex with a soccer specific stadium, that would be great. But I will believe it when I see it.
I'm Robert Palmer and I'm here to help.....No sir, you are no Ronald Reagan.
Had an interesting conversation about this. Apparently the USL was pushing hard to put a team in Jax anticipating the Armada would fold without an owner and their lease expiring (and probably the NASL shortly after). UNF is seen as the only adequate soccer facility in the metro and they put out a solid offer. But when Palmer stepped in UNF accepted his bid. Palmer is a realist who has no delusions about how much it costs to run such a team. He views it as an opportunity to promote RP Funding and expand it from Orlando to the Jax market. He thus expects to spend a lot more on marketing to promote both the Armada and the business, which is really what they need more than anything.
Watched the Armada yesterday play at Carolina. They got off to a quick 2-0 start, but wound up with a 2-2 draw. The Armada's passing is bad. They need to work on their passing.
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 13, 2017, 07:13:59 PM
Watched the Armada yesterday play at Carolina. They got off to a quick 2-0 start, but wound up with a 2-2 draw. The Armada's passing is bad. They need to work on their passing.
How was the attendance? Does the league seem to be stable?
Quote from: TimmyB on August 13, 2017, 08:16:52 PM
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 13, 2017, 07:13:59 PM
Watched the Armada yesterday play at Carolina. They got off to a quick 2-0 start, but wound up with a 2-2 draw. The Armada's passing is bad. They need to work on their passing.
How was the attendance? Does the league seem to be stable?
The attendance in Cary, NC seemed to be decent. I think the league would do best to merge with the USL. Jacksonville needs a dedicated soccer pitch.
^ I agree, I don't see what is gained by having the USL and NASL separate. I think building a soccer stadium should be a priority for the city. Anybody have any ideas where it should go?
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 13, 2017, 08:34:00 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on August 13, 2017, 08:16:52 PM
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 13, 2017, 07:13:59 PM
Watched the Armada yesterday play at Carolina. They got off to a quick 2-0 start, but wound up with a 2-2 draw. The Armada's passing is bad. They need to work on their passing.
How was the attendance? Does the league seem to be stable?
The attendance in Cary, NC seemed to be decent. I think the league would do best to merge with the USL. Jacksonville needs a dedicated soccer pitch.
Yeah, a real (dedicated) stadium would make it a whole lot more attractive and give the impression that this is legitimate. As for where, I'm not a local (yet) so I won't be an expert until two days after I arrive! ;)
Quote from: remc86007 on August 13, 2017, 08:46:43 PM
^ I agree, I don't see what is gained by having the USL and NASL separate. I think building a soccer stadium should be a priority for the city. Anybody have any ideas where it should go?
I think somewhere near the sports/entertainment complex would be great. If they ever get a true destination zone down there with bars, restaurants, and entertainment, that would be great. Anywhere but the Town Center area.
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 14, 2017, 07:54:55 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on August 13, 2017, 08:46:43 PM
^ I agree, I don't see what is gained by having the USL and NASL separate. I think building a soccer stadium should be a priority for the city. Anybody have any ideas where it should go?
I think somewhere near the sports/entertainment complex would be great. If they ever get a true destination zone down there with bars, restaurants, and entertainment, that would be great. Anywhere but the Town Center area.
My guess. And this is strictly a guess.
If a soccer stadium is ever built here, it would be part of a larger complex with multiple multi-use fields and a lot of parking. I don't see it being anywhere near the existing sports complex.
More on Palmer's realistic financial plan for the Armada
http://jacksonville.com/metro/business/2017-08-12/new-jacksonville-armada-owner-sees-team-extension-his-financial-services
Quote from: pierre on August 14, 2017, 08:11:29 AM
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 14, 2017, 07:54:55 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on August 13, 2017, 08:46:43 PM
^ I agree, I don't see what is gained by having the USL and NASL separate. I think building a soccer stadium should be a priority for the city. Anybody have any ideas where it should go?
I think somewhere near the sports/entertainment complex would be great. If they ever get a true destination zone down there with bars, restaurants, and entertainment, that would be great. Anywhere but the Town Center area.
My guess. And this is strictly a guess.
If a soccer stadium is ever built here, it would be part of a larger complex with multiple multi-use fields and a lot of parking. I don't see it being anywhere near the existing sports complex.
^^That would probably mean Patton Park, near Beach and Hodges. Which is by far the most professional and extensive soccer complex in the region, managed and operated by First Coast Soccer. Interestingly, I haven't been to their website in at least 6 months and when I clicked on it just now I was redirected to armadafcyouth.com.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 14, 2017, 09:31:52 AM
Quote from: pierre on August 14, 2017, 08:11:29 AM
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 14, 2017, 07:54:55 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on August 13, 2017, 08:46:43 PM
^ I agree, I don't see what is gained by having the USL and NASL separate. I think building a soccer stadium should be a priority for the city. Anybody have any ideas where it should go?
I think somewhere near the sports/entertainment complex would be great. If they ever get a true destination zone down there with bars, restaurants, and entertainment, that would be great. Anywhere but the Town Center area.
My guess. And this is strictly a guess.
If a soccer stadium is ever built here, it would be part of a larger complex with multiple multi-use fields and a lot of parking. I don't see it being anywhere near the existing sports complex.
^^That would probably mean Patton Park, near Beach and Hodges. Which is by far the most professional and extensive soccer complex in the region, managed and operated by First Coast Soccer. Interestingly, I haven't been to their website in at least 6 months and when I clicked on it just now I was redirected to armadafcyouth.com.
I'm not familiar with Patton Park, but lived in the area years ago. That might make sense in that the infrastructure is in place, but the area is much too congested. I think an old industrial site around or near Everbank Field would be a good candidate because of it's central location.
Nice article in the JBJ about Palmer. With the games on TV, the advertisers who are locked in for 1 more year are getting close to $80k in benefits for the ads. Nice to see him step in and take over the team.
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 14, 2017, 09:56:30 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 14, 2017, 09:31:52 AM
Quote from: pierre on August 14, 2017, 08:11:29 AM
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 14, 2017, 07:54:55 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on August 13, 2017, 08:46:43 PM
^ I agree, I don't see what is gained by having the USL and NASL separate. I think building a soccer stadium should be a priority for the city. Anybody have any ideas where it should go?
I think somewhere near the sports/entertainment complex would be great. If they ever get a true destination zone down there with bars, restaurants, and entertainment, that would be great. Anywhere but the Town Center area.
My guess. And this is strictly a guess.
If a soccer stadium is ever built here, it would be part of a larger complex with multiple multi-use fields and a lot of parking. I don't see it being anywhere near the existing sports complex.
^^That would probably mean Patton Park, near Beach and Hodges. Which is by far the most professional and extensive soccer complex in the region, managed and operated by First Coast Soccer. Interestingly, I haven't been to their website in at least 6 months and when I clicked on it just now I was redirected to armadafcyouth.com.
I'm not familiar with Patton Park, but lived in the area years ago. That might make sense in that the infrastructure is in place, but the area is much too congested. I think an old industrial site around or near Everbank Field would be a good candidate because of it's central location.
Yeah I'm not saying I see it happening there or want it to. Just speaking off of the earlier comment as Patton has lighting, 15 fields including a stadium field with bleachers.
I would say in terms of geographic location the only two areas that make sense for accessibility and convenience are downtown and the SJTC area. Obviously with my urban core leanings I'd prefer downtown.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 14, 2017, 09:31:52 AM
Quote from: pierre on August 14, 2017, 08:11:29 AM
Quote from: Snaketoz on August 14, 2017, 07:54:55 AM
Quote from: remc86007 on August 13, 2017, 08:46:43 PM
^ I agree, I don't see what is gained by having the USL and NASL separate. I think building a soccer stadium should be a priority for the city. Anybody have any ideas where it should go?
I think somewhere near the sports/entertainment complex would be great. If they ever get a true destination zone down there with bars, restaurants, and entertainment, that would be great. Anywhere but the Town Center area.
My guess. And this is strictly a guess.
If a soccer stadium is ever built here, it would be part of a larger complex with multiple multi-use fields and a lot of parking. I don't see it being anywhere near the existing sports complex.
^^That would probably mean Patton Park, near Beach and Hodges. Which is by far the most professional and extensive soccer complex in the region, managed and operated by First Coast Soccer. Interestingly, I haven't been to their website in at least 6 months and when I clicked on it just now I was redirected to armadafcyouth.com.
My son-in-law is of Croatian descent. He tells me over there, ALL the junior clubs are under the umbrella of the professional team that controls that market. That way, they have a direct interest in developing talent, as those kids feed into their pipeline of talent.
Twas inevitable, but NASL is now officially below USL.
http://www.espnfc.com/north-american-soccer-league/story/3197245/us-soccer-denies-nasl-division-2-status-for-2018
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 05, 2017, 05:41:05 PM
Twas inevitable, but NASL is now officially below USL.
http://www.espnfc.com/north-american-soccer-league/story/3197245/us-soccer-denies-nasl-division-2-status-for-2018
Interesting. Wonder how long the teams will stick with the league.
At some point, the Armada will need to move to the USL.
Quote
Posted November 7, 2017 05:45 am | Updated 03:20 pm
By Clayton Freeman
Owner: Armada now 'team without a league'
As the North American Soccer League's future grows increasingly uncertain, Jacksonville Armada owner Robert Palmer says the third-year franchise is a "team without a league."
In a Twitter post Sunday afternoon, Palmer said "In 7 days we'll be a team w/o a league... Time to find someone to play with."
...
http://jacksonville.com/sports/armada-fc/2017-11-06/owner-armada-now-team-without-league
It seems the USL is taking pretty much anyone from NASL. I imagine they would take the Armada, right?
Quote from: FlaBoy on November 08, 2017, 11:43:49 AM
It seems the USL is taking pretty much anyone from NASL. I imagine they would take the Armada, right?
I would imagine. They were already made a competitive bid to UNF when it looked like the Armada would fold. I guess the question is whether Palmer sees it as a good investment for the team he's spending all this money on.
The article also mentions a new league named the National Independent Soccer Association (NISA), which was apparently planned as a feeder league for the NASL. But that wouldn't be Division II and possibly not even Division III.
Without the NASL and the USL making a grab for all these former NASL teams, I would love too see them absorb even more teams and consider having a relegation/promotion tier system. It would be a great way to amp up interest and have owners seriously invest in their teams.
I really hope the Armada can get into the USL.
It's probably the only way for them to survive long term in Jacksonville.
Looks to me like Robert Palmer is taking a page out of Ron Sholes' playbook and using a ninth-tier professional sports franchise as a marketing arm of his business. The Jacksonville Giants for years have been nothing but marketing for "You Hurt We Fight." Sholes gives away the tickets to school kids with parents in his target demographic, then covers the arena with ads for his firm and his quack doctor buddies. The Giants don't sell tickets, but it doesn't matter because he probably only needs one settlement out of the 5,000 freebie tickets he gives out for each game to break even.
Palmer must be hoping he can finance the first homes of all these millennial, europhile hipsters who think they're being all cultural and stuff.
Quote from: JBTripper on November 09, 2017, 11:15:42 AM
Looks to me like Robert Palmer is taking a page out of Ron Sholes' playbook and using a ninth-tier professional sports franchise as a marketing arm of his business. The Jacksonville Giants for years have been nothing but marketing for "You Hurt We Fight." Sholes gives away the tickets to school kids with parents in his target demographic, then covers the arena with ads for his firm and his quack doctor buddies. The Giants don't sell tickets, but it doesn't matter because he probably only needs one settlement out of the 5,000 freebie tickets he gives out for each game to break even.
Palmer must be hoping he can finance the first homes of all these millennial, europhile hipsters who think they're being all cultural and stuff.
Lol. He's been 100% up front about using the team to market his business. The money he's invested is also head and shoulders beyond what Ron Sholes did with the Giants. I'm also not sure what a "europhile hipster", Millennial or otherwise, would be doing at a lower-division American soccer game. They'd be at the bar watching Barthelona.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 09, 2017, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: JBTripper on November 09, 2017, 11:15:42 AM
Looks to me like Robert Palmer is taking a page out of Ron Sholes' playbook and using a ninth-tier professional sports franchise as a marketing arm of his business. The Jacksonville Giants for years have been nothing but marketing for "You Hurt We Fight." Sholes gives away the tickets to school kids with parents in his target demographic, then covers the arena with ads for his firm and his quack doctor buddies. The Giants don't sell tickets, but it doesn't matter because he probably only needs one settlement out of the 5,000 freebie tickets he gives out for each game to break even.
Palmer must be hoping he can finance the first homes of all these millennial, europhile hipsters who think they're being all cultural and stuff.
Lol. He's been 100% up front about using the team to market his business. The money he's invested is also head and shoulders beyond what Ron Sholes did with the Giants. I'm also not sure what a "europhile hipster", Millennial or otherwise, would be doing at a lower-division American soccer game. They'd be at the bar watching Barthelona.
Yeah he's talked about his reasoning and his vision countless times. He's working on getting television deals with dozens of markets around the country to make the Armada America's team (and by extension America's mortgage company) but don't know how successful that will be. On the surface he seems like an amazing owner.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 09, 2017, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: JBTripper on November 09, 2017, 11:15:42 AM
Looks to me like Robert Palmer is taking a page out of Ron Sholes' playbook and using a ninth-tier professional sports franchise as a marketing arm of his business. The Jacksonville Giants for years have been nothing but marketing for "You Hurt We Fight." Sholes gives away the tickets to school kids with parents in his target demographic, then covers the arena with ads for his firm and his quack doctor buddies. The Giants don't sell tickets, but it doesn't matter because he probably only needs one settlement out of the 5,000 freebie tickets he gives out for each game to break even.
Palmer must be hoping he can finance the first homes of all these millennial, europhile hipsters who think they're being all cultural and stuff.
Lol. He's been 100% up front about using the team to market his business. The money he's invested is also head and shoulders beyond what Ron Sholes did with the Giants. I'm also not sure what a "europhile hipster", Millennial or otherwise, would be doing at a lower-division American soccer game. They'd be at the bar watching Barthelona.
I don't know...there's something about putting on a scarf in 100 degree weather and pretending to be Frodo Baggins.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 09, 2017, 11:27:11 AM
They'd be at the bar watching Barthelona.
So, so accurate.
Not sure this changes a whole lot. But the NASL is nearly officially dead. And as of now, it does not appear that the Armada are joining the USL, which many other NASL franchises did.
If the Armada move down (or go amateur), it's RIP Armada.
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/armada-owner-says-team-could-play-in-different-league-in-2018
Quote from: pierre on January 08, 2018, 04:56:53 PM
Not sure this changes a whole lot. But the NASL is nearly officially dead. And as of now, it does not appear that the Armada are joining the USL, which many other NASL franchises did.
If the Armada move down (or go amateur), it's RIP Armada.
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/armada-owner-says-team-could-play-in-different-league-in-2018
It's concerning they're talking about moving into D3 leagues or lower. Hard to see them getting any better attendance with that than the very low levels they got last year. It needs to be USL or nothing, frankly.
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
No, no it doesn't. <<sigh>>
Until US Soccer restructures, the Armada will be influx.
Quote from: JaxAvondale on January 30, 2018, 10:40:28 PM
Until US Soccer restructures, the Armada will be influx.
Yes, I guess we could look at it optimistically; we CAN'T be in any worse shape than USA Soccer itself! ;)
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 10:27:22 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
No, no it doesn't. <<sigh>>
The owner said on Twitter that USL isn't an option, but can't get into why for legal reasons. It's hard to see them lasting long in lower divisions (or no division), especially knowing that USL is interested in the Jax market.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 31, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 10:27:22 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
No, no it doesn't. <<sigh>>
The owner said on Twitter that USL isn't an option, but can't get into why for legal reasons. It's hard to see them lasting long in lower divisions (or no division), especially knowing that USL is interested in the Jax market.
Soccer is such a mess in this country. You know, it's kinda like everything we discuss on this forum when dealing with the Shipyards and downtown. Instead of a small, grass-roots thing happening and building up from the bottom, we want it to emulate what we see in organizations that have been around for 100+ years (MLB, NFL, etc.) Let's go for the home run when really we should be far more localized.
When I was growing up, there was a great minor-league hockey league called the IHL. Its teams were all within a long bus ride to each other. In Michigan, there was Muskegon, Kalamazoo, Saginaw, Flint, Port Huron. Indiana had Ft Wayne, Ohio had Toledo and Columbus, etc. Then, some genius decided that the IHL needed broader horizons (read: more money to be made). The expanded to Las Vegas and other plane rides around the country. Within a few years, the league folded. No way can you carry that kind of expense for that level of league.
The reason I bring this up is, wouldn't soccer be better suited with a regional league of teams that would allow natural rivalries to take place? I mean, imagine the "SouthEast Soccer Association". Jax, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Huntsville, Macon, Birmingham, Savannah, etc. This would make far more sense than having teams that draw maybe 4,000 fans on a good night flying to Minneapolis!
Quote from: TimmyB on January 31, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 31, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 10:27:22 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
No, no it doesn't. <<sigh>>
The owner said on Twitter that USL isn't an option, but can't get into why for legal reasons. It's hard to see them lasting long in lower divisions (or no division), especially knowing that USL is interested in the Jax market.
Soccer is such a mess in this country. You know, it's kinda like everything we discuss on this forum when dealing with the Shipyards and downtown. Instead of a small, grass-roots thing happening and building up from the bottom, we want it to emulate what we see in organizations that have been around for 100+ years (MLB, NFL, etc.) Let's go for the home run when really we should be far more localized.
When I was growing up, there was a great minor-league hockey league called the IHL. Its teams were all within a long bus ride to each other. In Michigan, there was Muskegon, Kalamazoo, Saginaw, Flint, Port Huron. Indiana had Ft Wayne, Ohio had Toledo and Columbus, etc. Then, some genius decided that the IHL needed broader horizons (read: more money to be made). The expanded to Las Vegas and other plane rides around the country. Within a few years, the league folded. No way can you carry that kind of expense for that level of league.
The reason I bring this up is, wouldn't soccer be better suited with a regional league of teams that would allow natural rivalries to take place? I mean, imagine the "SouthEast Soccer Association". Jax, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Huntsville, Macon, Birmingham, Savannah, etc. This would make far more sense than having teams that draw maybe 4,000 fans on a good night flying to Minneapolis!
Speaking of soccer, you watching the match tonight, Timmy?
Quote from: Adam White on January 31, 2018, 04:25:28 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 31, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 31, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 10:27:22 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
No, no it doesn't. <<sigh>>
The owner said on Twitter that USL isn't an option, but can't get into why for legal reasons. It's hard to see them lasting long in lower divisions (or no division), especially knowing that USL is interested in the Jax market.
Soccer is such a mess in this country. You know, it's kinda like everything we discuss on this forum when dealing with the Shipyards and downtown. Instead of a small, grass-roots thing happening and building up from the bottom, we want it to emulate what we see in organizations that have been around for 100+ years (MLB, NFL, etc.) Let's go for the home run when really we should be far more localized.
When I was growing up, there was a great minor-league hockey league called the IHL. Its teams were all within a long bus ride to each other. In Michigan, there was Muskegon, Kalamazoo, Saginaw, Flint, Port Huron. Indiana had Ft Wayne, Ohio had Toledo and Columbus, etc. Then, some genius decided that the IHL needed broader horizons (read: more money to be made). The expanded to Las Vegas and other plane rides around the country. Within a few years, the league folded. No way can you carry that kind of expense for that level of league.
The reason I bring this up is, wouldn't soccer be better suited with a regional league of teams that would allow natural rivalries to take place? I mean, imagine the "SouthEast Soccer Association". Jax, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Huntsville, Macon, Birmingham, Savannah, etc. This would make far more sense than having teams that draw maybe 4,000 fans on a good night flying to Minneapolis!
Speaking of soccer, you watching the match tonight, Timmy?
Yes, and I'm slitting my wrists as I type. Very tough to do, mind you.
Quote from: TimmyB on January 31, 2018, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: Adam White on January 31, 2018, 04:25:28 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 31, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 31, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 10:27:22 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
No, no it doesn't. <<sigh>>
The owner said on Twitter that USL isn't an option, but can't get into why for legal reasons. It's hard to see them lasting long in lower divisions (or no division), especially knowing that USL is interested in the Jax market.
Soccer is such a mess in this country. You know, it's kinda like everything we discuss on this forum when dealing with the Shipyards and downtown. Instead of a small, grass-roots thing happening and building up from the bottom, we want it to emulate what we see in organizations that have been around for 100+ years (MLB, NFL, etc.) Let's go for the home run when really we should be far more localized.
When I was growing up, there was a great minor-league hockey league called the IHL. Its teams were all within a long bus ride to each other. In Michigan, there was Muskegon, Kalamazoo, Saginaw, Flint, Port Huron. Indiana had Ft Wayne, Ohio had Toledo and Columbus, etc. Then, some genius decided that the IHL needed broader horizons (read: more money to be made). The expanded to Las Vegas and other plane rides around the country. Within a few years, the league folded. No way can you carry that kind of expense for that level of league.
The reason I bring this up is, wouldn't soccer be better suited with a regional league of teams that would allow natural rivalries to take place? I mean, imagine the "SouthEast Soccer Association". Jax, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Huntsville, Macon, Birmingham, Savannah, etc. This would make far more sense than having teams that draw maybe 4,000 fans on a good night flying to Minneapolis!
Speaking of soccer, you watching the match tonight, Timmy?
Yes, and I'm slitting my wrists as I type. Very tough to do, mind you.
Unbelievable. Needless to say, I'm happy.
Quote from: Adam White on January 31, 2018, 05:54:44 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 31, 2018, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: Adam White on January 31, 2018, 04:25:28 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 31, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 31, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 10:27:22 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
No, no it doesn't. <<sigh>>
The owner said on Twitter that USL isn't an option, but can't get into why for legal reasons. It's hard to see them lasting long in lower divisions (or no division), especially knowing that USL is interested in the Jax market.
Soccer is such a mess in this country. You know, it's kinda like everything we discuss on this forum when dealing with the Shipyards and downtown. Instead of a small, grass-roots thing happening and building up from the bottom, we want it to emulate what we see in organizations that have been around for 100+ years (MLB, NFL, etc.) Let's go for the home run when really we should be far more localized.
When I was growing up, there was a great minor-league hockey league called the IHL. Its teams were all within a long bus ride to each other. In Michigan, there was Muskegon, Kalamazoo, Saginaw, Flint, Port Huron. Indiana had Ft Wayne, Ohio had Toledo and Columbus, etc. Then, some genius decided that the IHL needed broader horizons (read: more money to be made). The expanded to Las Vegas and other plane rides around the country. Within a few years, the league folded. No way can you carry that kind of expense for that level of league.
The reason I bring this up is, wouldn't soccer be better suited with a regional league of teams that would allow natural rivalries to take place? I mean, imagine the "SouthEast Soccer Association". Jax, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Huntsville, Macon, Birmingham, Savannah, etc. This would make far more sense than having teams that draw maybe 4,000 fans on a good night flying to Minneapolis!
Speaking of soccer, you watching the match tonight, Timmy?
Yes, and I'm slitting my wrists as I type. Very tough to do, mind you.
Unbelievable. Needless to say, I'm happy.
About the game, or me offing myself? ;)
the weird things is that Armada's U-23 squad was in the NPSL the last few seasons.
Quote from: TimmyB on January 31, 2018, 07:38:52 PM
Quote from: Adam White on January 31, 2018, 05:54:44 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 31, 2018, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: Adam White on January 31, 2018, 04:25:28 PM
Speaking of soccer, you watching the match tonight, Timmy?
Yes, and I'm slitting my wrists as I type. Very tough to do, mind you.
Unbelievable. Needless to say, I'm happy.
About the game, or me offing myself? ;)
;)
Spurs need more performances like this one - that fourth place trophy isn't going to win itself!
Quote from: Adam White on February 01, 2018, 04:15:46 AM
;)
Spurs need more performances like this one - that fourth place trophy isn't going to win itself!
United have zero offensive plan. Just have ddg punt it north by 80 yards and pray that it hits a red shirt. So disappointing to watch.
Quote from: fsquid on February 01, 2018, 01:39:09 AM
the weird things is that Armada's U-23 squad was in the NPSL the last few seasons.
That doesn't look promising, if that's the case.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2018, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: TimmyB on January 30, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
Well, at least they will be playing SOME level of soccer in a couple of months!
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/soccer/armada/armada-find-temporary-home-in-npsl)
No mention of joining the USL. Exploring "start up leagues" doesn't really inspire confidence.
The Armada are on borrowed time.
It is frustrating watching all these other NASL franchises moving up to USL. Meanwhile, the Armada are moving down to a lower level.
Quote from: TimmyB on February 01, 2018, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Adam White on February 01, 2018, 04:15:46 AM
;)
Spurs need more performances like this one - that fourth place trophy isn't going to win itself!
United have zero offensive plan. Just have ddg punt it north by 80 yards and pray that it hits a red shirt. So disappointing to watch.
And yet they're in second place! What does that say about the league?
Spurs are wildly inconsistent. I'd argue they're one of the best teams when they play like they did last night (and like they played against Madrid). But they can also be the sort of team that struggles to manage a late equaliser against a fourth division team.
Well, the NASL just cancelled their upcoming season. Not a surprise, but a depressing reality of the hodgepodge nature of American soccer in general.
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/nasl-cancels-2018-season (https://www.news4jax.com/sports/nasl-cancels-2018-season)
This follows what I heard pretty closely: last year, the USL was trying to place a team in Jacksonville at Hodges Stadium at the same time Palmer was working on buying the Armada.
https://www.soctakes.com/2018/01/08/another-bidder-jacksonville/
If anything, it suggests that if the Armada don't make it, another team will come in.
I know the youth club also depends on the parent club for funding, so I wonder what happens to the youth club when the Armada goes bankrupt?
Such a shame. Too bad the Armada did not jump to the USL earlier.
They went down with the NASL.
And it sounds like the Armada won't have the chance to move up either.
It sounds like Palmer wants the Armada to stick around in another league, higher level than amateur, if (when) the NASL doesn't come back. I don't know why but it sounds like USL is out of the question for him. I think the question is how long he wants to pay for rent and marketing in a lower league.
Jacksonville Armada owner seeks to build new stadium in Jacksonville...
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/data/sports/jacksonville-armada-owner-seeks-to-build-new-stadium-in-jacksonville/77-526401806
Wow, this guy has balls and talks a big game. If he can back it up, then fantastic!
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 06, 2018, 09:55:09 PM
Wow, this guy has balls and talks a big game. If he can back it up, then fantastic!
Oh, please (PLEASE!) let this guy be for real and not another pie-in-the-sky hawker that we seem to have an abundance of! This would be spectacular for us fans of the game. Someplace simple, yet expandable. A place to call home.
Quote from: TimmyB on March 06, 2018, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 06, 2018, 09:55:09 PM
Wow, this guy has balls and talks a big game. If he can back it up, then fantastic!
Oh, please (PLEASE!) let this guy be for real and not another pie-in-the-sky hawker that we seem to have an abundance of! This would be spectacular for us fans of the game. Someplace simple, yet expandable. A place to call home.
I hate to throw water on this, but unless the team can stabilize without the NASL, building another stadium just opens the door for another team to come in and rent Hodges Stadium and compete with them.
Quote from: TimmyB on March 06, 2018, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 06, 2018, 09:55:09 PM
Wow, this guy has balls and talks a big game. If he can back it up, then fantastic!
Oh, please (PLEASE!) let this guy be for real and not another pie-in-the-sky hawker that we seem to have an abundance of! This would be spectacular for us fans of the game. Someplace simple, yet expandable. A place to call home.
So the question is, where?
Should there be a push for adding it to the Stadium District? Or building it in another part of Downtown like LaVilla? Or even building it outside the core entirely?
Quote from: TimmyB on March 06, 2018, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 06, 2018, 09:55:09 PM
Wow, this guy has balls and talks a big game. If he can back it up, then fantastic!
Oh, please (PLEASE!) let this guy be for real and not another pie-in-the-sky hawker that we seem to have an abundance of! This would be spectacular for us fans of the game. Someplace simple, yet expandable. A place to call home.
Its obvious that the armada owner needs to contact Mooneyhan for a joint project in Jax.
We will have the very best stadium in the world, floating on the river. There will be nothing like it anywhere, and people will come from miles around and think it's just amazing.
/s
Quote from: civil42806 on March 07, 2018, 06:52:14 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on March 06, 2018, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 06, 2018, 09:55:09 PM
Wow, this guy has balls and talks a big game. If he can back it up, then fantastic!
Oh, please (PLEASE!) let this guy be for real and not another pie-in-the-sky hawker that we seem to have an abundance of! This would be spectacular for us fans of the game. Someplace simple, yet expandable. A place to call home.
Its obvious that the armada owner needs to contact Mooneyhan for a joint project in Jax.
I've heard it from a reliable source that it will be named Fudrucker's Stadium.
So he's gonna build a stadium for what is essentially an amateur team?
I'm thinking something better than an amateur team. I'm thinking he's seen what he has to do to move the Armada into the next level and it will never happen, given the lack of a stadium. I don't see a second team coming in; that would be disastrous for both.
As for where, I don't see it downtown. Personally, I think a perfect location would be where Gate Parkway dead-ends just east of 295. Lots and lots of land (undeveloped), easy access to 295/JTB, lots of population in that area with good income and "suburban mentality" (which is where your soccer fan base is), etc. Not sure how that land is zoned or who the owner is, but you just couldn't do much better than right there, imo.
Ultimately, they have to get into the USL. Maybe a stadium makes that a reality with Palmer as owner.
Agree on the location. It has to be somewhere near that part of town. And I think it would be a multiuse stadium. I could see high school football games played there too.
Quote from: TimmyB on March 07, 2018, 09:04:49 AM
As for where, I don't see it downtown. Personally, I think a perfect location would be where Gate Parkway dead-ends just east of 295. Lots and lots of land (undeveloped), easy access to 295/JTB, lots of population in that area with good income and "suburban mentality" (which is where your soccer fan base is), etc. Not sure how that land is zoned or who the owner is, but you just couldn't do much better than right there, imo.
That is Davis owned land (dee dot ranch), not likely to be made available. You never know, maybe one of the Davis' are soccer fans and would donate it to the cause.
Palmer should get the Armada to the MLS and use Everbank (i'm not going to call it TIAA).
Quote from: Lostwave on March 07, 2018, 09:33:24 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on March 07, 2018, 09:04:49 AM
As for where, I don't see it downtown. Personally, I think a perfect location would be where Gate Parkway dead-ends just east of 295. Lots and lots of land (undeveloped), easy access to 295/JTB, lots of population in that area with good income and "suburban mentality" (which is where your soccer fan base is), etc. Not sure how that land is zoned or who the owner is, but you just couldn't do much better than right there, imo.
That is Davis owned land (dee dot ranch), not likely to be made available. You never know, maybe one of the Davis' are soccer fans and would donate it to the cause.
Palmer should get the Armada to the MLS and use Everbank (i'm not going to call it TIAA).
Being new to town, I'm not sure who the Davis family is, but hopefully one of them would get on board, as you said.
As for MLS, playing in Everbank would be a disaster. Having been a PA announcer for over 30 years in a different sport, I can tell you I'd rather be doing a game with a crowd of 1500 in a facility that only held 1200, rather than a crowd of 1500 in a facility that held 9000! The former is packed and entertaining, the latter is a tomb. Putting even a decent crowd of 15 to 20k in the Bank would still look and sound like no one was there. Add to that the fact that the field is a rounded rectangle, which means your fans are pushed out far away from the action in the centers. Not a good soccer facility at all, unless you can guarantee a huge turnout. Not in Jax.
Quote from: TimmyB on March 07, 2018, 09:04:49 AM
I'm thinking something better than an amateur team. I'm thinking he's seen what he has to do to move the Armada into the next level and it will never happen, given the lack of a stadium. I don't see a second team coming in; that would be disastrous for both.
He has said USL isn't an option for whatever reason, so I'm not sure what next level he can expect to see with a new stadium. He's said he's hoping for either the NASL to come back (unlikely) or some new league to pop up that he can join in lieu of the USL.
USL was trying to move in and lease Hodges Stadium when he bought the Armada. The only reason they're not here now while the Armada are in a weakened state is that the Armada have the Hodges lease, and there's nowhere else to play. Unless he can really turn the Armada's fortunes around, leaving Hodges for another stadium means the USL comes in and puts the Armada out of business.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 07, 2018, 10:54:46 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on March 07, 2018, 09:04:49 AM
I'm thinking something better than an amateur team. I'm thinking he's seen what he has to do to move the Armada into the next level and it will never happen, given the lack of a stadium. I don't see a second team coming in; that would be disastrous for both.
He has said USL isn't an option for whatever reason, so I'm not sure what next level he can expect to see with a new stadium. He's said he's hoping for either the NASL to come back (unlikely) or some new league to pop up that he can join in lieu of the USL.
USL was trying to move in and lease Hodges Stadium when he bought the Armada. The only reason they're not here now while the Armada are in a weakened state is that the Armada have the Hodges lease, and there's nowhere else to play. Unless he can really turn the Armada's fortunes around, leaving Hodges for another stadium means the USL comes in and puts the Armada out of business.
JU's updated football stadium could potentially work when they are done before football season this fall.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 07, 2018, 10:54:46 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on March 07, 2018, 09:04:49 AM
I'm thinking something better than an amateur team. I'm thinking he's seen what he has to do to move the Armada into the next level and it will never happen, given the lack of a stadium. I don't see a second team coming in; that would be disastrous for both.
He has said USL isn't an option for whatever reason, so I'm not sure what next level he can expect to see with a new stadium. He's said he's hoping for either the NASL to come back (unlikely) or some new league to pop up that he can join in lieu of the USL.
USL was trying to move in and lease Hodges Stadium when he bought the Armada. The only reason they're not here now while the Armada are in a weakened state is that the Armada have the Hodges lease, and there's nowhere else to play. Unless he can really turn the Armada's fortunes around, leaving Hodges for another stadium means the USL comes in and puts the Armada out of business.
Right, but I kinda took that to mean short term, no USL. If he means forever, then yes, another team could swoop in. I guess we will be able to tell what his intentions are when we see a rendering of the stadium. The levels and capacity of seating will be a good indicator of whether he's talking D2 or D3 (or lower) soccer.
I was trying to get a handle on why the USL was not an option...I thought it might have to do with litigation, or a personal conflict with the league. Looks like it is more likely that the USL's rules against broadcasting games outside your local market is the culprit. Robert Palmer's plan for Armada is as a marketing machine, and if he can't broadcast outside of Jax then it's useless. So it seems any move to the USL is unlikely for a long time (which is funny cause before selling the team, Frisch appeared to be prepping the Armada for a jump to the USL).
Anyway, it's kinda hard to believe that Palmer is building a fourth division, semi-pro franchise to be a marketing juggernaut broadcast around the country with its own soccer-specific stadium. Seems unusual at the least. More power to him though. Time will tell.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 07, 2018, 11:51:02 AM
I was trying to get a handle on why the USL was not an option...I thought it might have to do with litigation, or a personal conflict with the league. Looks like it is more likely that the USL's rules against broadcasting games outside your local market is the culprit. Robert Palmer's plan for Armada is as a marketing machine, and if he can't broadcast outside of Jax then it's useless. So it seems any move to the USL is unlikely for a long time (which is funny cause before selling the team, Frisch appeared to be prepping the Armada for a jump to the USL).
Anyway, it's kinda hard to believe that Palmer is building a fourth division, semi-pro franchise to be a marketing juggernaut broadcast around the country with its own soccer-specific stadium. Seems unusual at the least. More power to him though. Time will tell.
Interesting, at any rate. Definitely power to him.
Quote from: Lostwave on March 07, 2018, 09:33:24 AM
Quote from: TimmyB on March 07, 2018, 09:04:49 AM
As for where, I don't see it downtown. Personally, I think a perfect location would be where Gate Parkway dead-ends just east of 295. Lots and lots of land (undeveloped), easy access to 295/JTB, lots of population in that area with good income and "suburban mentality" (which is where your soccer fan base is), etc. Not sure how that land is zoned or who the owner is, but you just couldn't do much better than right there, imo.
That is Davis owned land (dee dot ranch), not likely to be made available. You never know, maybe one of the Davis' are soccer fans and would donate it to the cause.
Palmer should get the Armada to the MLS and use Everbank (i'm not going to call it TIAA).
See??? I told you this was happening!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
https://www.news4jax.com/top-stories/smoke-from-controlled-burns-in-ne-st-johns-county-sparks-concern (https://www.news4jax.com/top-stories/smoke-from-controlled-burns-in-ne-st-johns-county-sparks-concern)
What about E-Town Parkway? Or does the Davis family own that too?
Yes they do... but they are actually going to develop that, so could be possible.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 07, 2018, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 07, 2018, 11:51:02 AM
I was trying to get a handle on why the USL was not an option...I thought it might have to do with litigation, or a personal conflict with the league. Looks like it is more likely that the USL's rules against broadcasting games outside your local market is the culprit. Robert Palmer's plan for Armada is as a marketing machine, and if he can't broadcast outside of Jax then it's useless. So it seems any move to the USL is unlikely for a long time (which is funny cause before selling the team, Frisch appeared to be prepping the Armada for a jump to the USL).
Anyway, it's kinda hard to believe that Palmer is building a fourth division, semi-pro franchise to be a marketing juggernaut broadcast around the country with its own soccer-specific stadium. Seems unusual at the least. More power to him though. Time will tell.
Interesting, at any rate. Definitely power to him.
That is a dumb rule. I assume he would want to target the northern portions of the Orlando/Sanford/Daytona Beach market and Brevard County. He would want to target Gainesville, Ocala, and maybe out to Tallahassee? I can't imagine him going all the way to Lakeland though.
^Just going on my memory here, but I believe he broadcasts in Tampa and there is a USL team there. And I also believe that in one of his first press conferences he mentioned broadcasting in various markets across the country.
The Armada had a game last night at UNF and it drew around 800.
Third lowest in team history, but higher than the week prior.
The team is on borrowed time and I have not seen Palmer in the news much lately talking about the team.
Doubt they are around this time next year.
Unless they get to the USL, the team is toast
Are we sure they're really on borrowed time?
We're certain they're actually running at a loss?
800 paid fans doesn't seem bad for a regional, fourth-tier soccer team made up of fourth-tier players, does it?
Can't imagine the team is paying rent on Hodges Stadium either.
Maybe ownership is ok keeping things in a holding pattern while they plot their next move.
Quote from: KenFSU on June 11, 2018, 02:26:12 PM
Are we sure they're really on borrowed time?
We're certain they're actually running at a loss?
800 paid fans doesn't seem bad for a regional, fourth-tier soccer team made up of fourth-tier players, does it?
Can't imagine the team is paying rent on Hodges Stadium either.
Maybe ownership is ok keeping things in a holding pattern while they plot their next move.
They're definitely paying rent. But I think the owners have too much invested in the team to pull out. They aren't apparently interested in the USL (though USL is interested in Jax), so who knows if they can make it work.
^Why aren't they interested in the USL?
Quote from: remc86007 on June 11, 2018, 02:58:06 PM
^Why aren't they interested in the USL?
I could be wrong but I think the USL isn't interested in Palmer.
Quote from: copperfiend on June 11, 2018, 03:11:55 PM
Quote from: remc86007 on June 11, 2018, 02:58:06 PM
^Why aren't they interested in the USL?
I could be wrong but I think the USL isn't interested in Palmer.
I don't think they said specifically, but probably something to do with ownership structure. The Armada are a marketing strategy for Palmer so if he doesn't have total control it may not be worth it to him.
I dont know about the issues from the USL's perspective, but from the Armada's POV (specifically owner Robert Palmer) it seems they are not interested in USL because Palmer wants broadcast rights for the Armada in many markets around the country, which infringes on various USL markets already.
Apparently the broadcast plan has gone haywire as well. Not sure if there is a better update, but this is from April:
http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180426/broadcast-plans-murky-as-armada-opens-npsl-campaign
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on June 11, 2018, 04:13:36 PM
Apparently the broadcast plan has gone haywire as well. Not sure if there is a better update, but this is from April:
http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180426/broadcast-plans-murky-as-armada-opens-npsl-campaign
Is there really a tv demographic that wants to watch an out of city or out of state minor league soccer team?
Quote from: civil42806 on June 11, 2018, 04:30:34 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on June 11, 2018, 04:13:36 PM
Apparently the broadcast plan has gone haywire as well. Not sure if there is a better update, but this is from April:
http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180426/broadcast-plans-murky-as-armada-opens-npsl-campaign
Is there really a tv demographic that wants to watch an out of city or out of state minor league soccer team?
Apparently they did OK in Tampa last year, which is what Palmer wanted as he's trying to expand his business there. But if they're not on TV in Jax (the main place he was trying to expand the business), it's unlikely they're even thinking about other markets. I feel for the guy. He made a big investment that seemed good, and the league collapsed out from under him.
But it didn't seem good. Everyone knew the league was doomed.
Quote from: remc86007 on June 11, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
But it didn't seem good. Everyone knew the league was doomed.
And that is why so many of the franchises moved to the USL. The writing was on the wall.
Unfortunately, Jacksonville stuck with the NASL and is now in an amateur league and drawing 800 people to games.
Quote from: remc86007 on June 11, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
But it didn't seem good. Everyone knew the league was doomed.
Exactly. I don't follow Soccer that close, and I had been hearing for a while that NASL was in major trouble. Seemed like terrible timing for the investment.
Palmer should just convert it to a basketball team and join the ABA. They could even use the same players. Nobody would notice.
I don't know what it would take in terms of money, resources, and criteria, but does anyone have an opinion about Robert Palmer transitioning the Armada to an NWSL team. My thoughts are that there is no way that Jacksonville could support two professional soccer teams and I like the thought of having a professional team in the highest professional league in the sport (as opposed to a second, third, or fourth, tier professional league).
If there was anyway possible for Jacksonville to get a franchise, could it survive?
There is a NWSL team in Orlando that has some of the biggest names in the sport. And it struggles to draw more than a couple thousand fans their games. There is no chance they are putting a team here.
The Pride has the same owner as the MLS team in Orlando. I suspect they don't pay rent. I doubt they could survive on their own.
Armada planning to move to Patton Park next season.
They are also going to play their first playoff game Wednesday... 8)
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/armada-set-for-first-ever-playoff-game-wednesday
QuoteArmada set for first ever playoff game Wednesday
Jacksonville hosts Miami United on Channel 4 at 7 p.m.
By Cole Pepper - Sports anchor/reporter
Posted: 2:49 PM, July 10, 2018
Updated: 2:49 PM, July 10, 2018
ACKSONVILLE, Fla. - When the Jacksonville Armada made the decision to play in the National Premier Soccer League this year, there was an expectation that the former North American Soccer League club would have a chance to dominate. In many ways, they have, but it doesn't make Wednesday's playoff match, the first in club history, any less special.
"We usually have Monday off, but because it's a playoff game, we were in. Everyone was ready to take in information and ready to go," said head coach Mark Lowry.
Last year, the Armada narrowly missed out on the NASL playoffs, and it has been a long and winding road for the club and its supporters over the past four years. Two leagues, two owners, four head coaches. That's why Lowry said Wednesday's match is more than just a competition, it is also a cause for celebration.
"For the fans who have had four years of a bit of a rollercoaster, to have a little bit of success means a lot," Lowry said. "It doesn't really matter if its NPSL (or) NASL right now. The name of the league is irrelevant right now, it's more of an occasion. The fans deserve this. I hope they turn up and we put on a show for them and continue this run."
The Armada will face a familiar opponent, Miami United. The two clubs have met three times this year, and Jacksonville is still searching for their first win against Miami United in 2018. Twice in league play, the clubs drew, including a 0-0 final in Jacksonville on June 23. The match that really sticks in the craw of the Armada came in the U.S. Open Cup when Jacksonville fell to United in the second round at home. That match was played at JU. Wednesday's match will be played at UNF Hodges Stadium, where the Armada have not lost a game this year.
"It feels like a Cup Final week," said Armada forward and captain Ciaran Kilduff. "As a player, you always look to play on the biggest stage and the biggest occasions. We're in the NPSL and we want to win it. It kind of feels like last year where there is something on the line that really matters."
For a few of the Armada players, this match has added meeting. Michael Melvin went to Nease High School, and he said that he was excited about the possibility of one day playing for his hometown team. Now he starts at left back and is looking forward to Wednesday's match.
"As soon as I saw that, it was one of my goals. I knew that if I wanted to play professional, this would be a good place to start. It's been really fun this summer," said former Nease High School star Michael Melvin.
In the hour before the match kicks off, there will be more Armada developments. Tim President Nathan Walter will be a part of a town hall meeting for residence in the Patton Park area who will have the chance to voice their opinions about the Armada's plan to build out a section of the park to become a small stadium where the club can play until a permanent new home can be constructed. Jacksonville city councilman Aaron Bowman will lead the discussion.
News of Armada's death greatly exaggerated . . . at least I hope.
The proposed move to Patton Park includes a $1 million investment to upgrade the field and increase capacity for 2500 spectators. The article also suggests this to be a temporary move with an eye still toward building a new home facility.
^It increases the chances that another team comes in and rents Hodges Stadium before any of that can happen, though.
That's true as its been rumoured that USL is looking to put a team in Jacksonville with a different ownership group . . . the hold up being Hodges tied up by Armada. I hope Armada's goodwill in the community would count for something if that were to happen.
Some additional details that I haven't seen reported yet:
- 3 year lease with the city, with the potential to extend
- First year or so would expand seating to 2,400 at Patton, the highest capacity allowed with existing parking
- Beyond that, the goal is to expand to 5,000, made possible by running a shuttle to satellite parking elsewhere
- Beer and wine only, none of the good stuff
- Armada pays for improvements to Patton, including a new scoreboard, but the city retains ownership of said improvements
- City Council should vote on the proposal within the next two months
Couple of renders:
(https://snag.gy/pz5nMs.jpg)
(https://snag.gy/9dl72c.jpg)
Quote from: KenFSU on July 12, 2018, 08:14:40 PM
- Armada pays for improvements to Patton, including a new scoreboard, but the city retains ownership of said improvements
How big are the scoreboards and will there be swimming pools???
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on July 12, 2018, 11:52:22 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on July 12, 2018, 08:14:40 PM
- Armada pays for improvements to Patton, including a new scoreboard, but the city retains ownership of said improvements
How big are the scoreboards and will there be swimming pools???
No pools, and whatever the opposite of the "world's largest scoreboards" is:
(https://snag.gy/K0YsvJ.jpg)
P.S. The residents in and around the area are losing their minds over the proposal due to traffic, noise, rowdiness concerns.
Armada Hooligans?? ??? ::)
Quote from: KenFSU on July 13, 2018, 08:18:23 AM
P.S. The residents in and around the area are losing their minds over the proposal due to traffic, noise, rowdiness concerns.
Looking at the area on Google Maps, I'm not sure I blame them. 2,400 people crammed onto that tiny road and having to work their way in and out sounds like madness. My high school football games are bad enough, and they pretty much happen in the middle of nowhere.
Anything happening with this team? Seems non existent. Passing up the USL was ridiculous.
I don't know all the specifics but I think technically the Armada are currently on hiatus. I believe the team they field now is a "developmental" team and they play against other amateur teams, mostly in high school stadiums in Florida.
The Armada we knew 3 or 4 years ago are gone. It's a shame too. Their games were fun those first couple years, even though the baseball grounds was king of an awkward fit. I had high hopes when Palmer took over from Frisch, who was clearly in over his head. But all they have done is sink further down.
I doubt there is any change unless another new owner comes around, and gets them in a league that matters.
They are a U-23 team now. Now they can just use the stadium field at Patton instead of UNF.
Missing out on the USL was a death blow to the Armada.
They tied themselves to the NASL and it killed the franchise.