The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4803751178_khXdQtp-L.jpg)
Preservations Save Our Springfield (SOS) shares their side of the story that led to the unfortunate demise of 439 East 1st Street.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2016-mar-the-sad-saga-of-439-east-first-street
SMART demolition?
File an Ethics complaint. Next meeting of the Jacksonville Ethics Commission is 7 days out. I believe 4/4/16 at 5 pm. 1st floor city hall. Just hand it to Carla Miller. Open to the Public. Due process?
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It seems like there are absolutely no consequences for the illegal demos. For what has been spent over the years, several homes could have been restored. $50K goes a long way, and would generate property tax income for the city. A vacant lot with a lien simply does not, and I would guess lowers the property value of the remaining homes, since the neighborhood is less complete.
Here's another thought. Since the rear addition was talked about for month, actually, the whole house was, and a COA was obtained, would not the removal or demolition of the rear enclosed porch have to follow standard protocol? Would not a permit have to be obtained before the work was done? Since the cost was known to be over $2,500.00, would not a Notice of Commencement be required?
The city has gotten demolitions done without permits and Notice of Commencements (NOC) in the past. They simply call the demolition an emergency, supposedly meaning an eminent threat to public safety and then have the demolition contractor fill out the permit with a cost of $2,450.00 or $2,495.00, just shy of the NOC requirement.
But this demolition did not start out as being an emergency, now did it? It wasn't, at least as we are told, an "eminent threat to public safety" until after the rear porch was removed.
Of course, we all know that the city never intended to follow it's own laws so why bother with little things like permits?
If you live on the South Side or Mandarin, you may think that the loss of another old house means nothing. No worries, I understand. But the fact that the City employees and Mayoral appointees so blatantly ignore the very laws they are charged with enforcing should mean a lot to you. It should be showing you exactly why this City is not living up to it's potential.
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...
Quote from: menace1069 on March 28, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...
I guess you haven't been paying attention.
PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them. We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency". We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.
However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to
follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties. Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.
This is so surreal that I have a hard time believing that people can be so shortsighted.
When you work to find a common solution, so many things are possible.
Here's one right off the top of my head: Since the city seems to have all of these 'funds' available, why not invest it back into the city?
Anyone who has ever done a remodel knows that it is more expensive than a new build. They're expensive. But it seems that demos aren't exactly cheap either, at roughly $40k per the 2 estimates.
A great program for 'homeowners' would be something similar to what Detroit has done with it's decaying stock: Put the homes in the hands of those who plan on living there, offer a streamlined grant application tied into the apparently severely bloated 'demolition budget' for $25k-35k worth of free money, offer assistance into federal rehab money and get these homes fixed with the only caveat being something akin to the 1st time buyers program, that you have to personally live in the home for 'x' amount of years to recoup the money.
I'm sure something could be set up with the lenders to loan the additional money up front with the knowledge that there is funding in escrow to be paid at a later time, and if the buyers default, then they default on the total and the grant money stays with the city, because I also hate the way the city gives money to developers up-front.
[/quote]
People have been and still are trying to figure a way to work with the city to stop the nonsense. But as can be seen from this demo, some within the city just don't get it and probably never will. There is much more to be said about this issue and as it can be, it will be said.
Meanwhile, back in 1998, the auction did exactly what the post above suggests. Later, they had a facade grant program and a SHARP grant program, both funded from federal dollars as gap money to help make it more desirable to fix up your house here in Springfield or buy one to fix up. The funds were "earned" by living in the house for x number of years.
The mothballing ordinances were part of the interaction between a few in leadership positions who "get it" and the preservationists looking for a way to buy time for the at risk houses. It was set up such that the City could mothball rather than demo, but demo is the "ultimate solution" to MCCD still.
What is also interesting is that the majority of the more recent demolitions where done so badly, legal wise, that they resulted in lawsuits. While I do not have the real numbers, I hazard a guess that the real, all up costs of the last several demolitions in Springfield was up into the hundreds of thousands of dollars range each when one adds in the personnel costs, the legal cost, the demolition and the lawsuit settlement costs. Then after all that money spent, the lot is still contaminated and not generating the tax dollars it could have been had the house remained and some amount of that demolition cost spent to make it attractive for rehab. In fact, one on 2nd street was slated for rehab by the City with NSP3 funds when Kimberly Scott took it down using NSP3 funds. Which do you think is better? A contaminated empty lot or a nicely rehabbed house generating property tax dollars?
Apparently, some in the city think a costly empty lot.....
I'm also, admittedly, all for conspiracy theories.
Could there be a collective agenda by those in the know who may be actively assisting the area in an effort to force it to lose its historic designation?
Remove some bureaucratic red tape, swoop in as the overall, average home price plummets even further and buy swaths of urban land for pennies on the dollar and sell the package off to a developer for a complete redevelopment. I'm sure the contract for the rolling-fine amnesty agreement is already written.
It's a lot to tie together, but I wonder how much of the property in the area can be tied directly (or indirectly) to those in prominent positions?
Quote from: strider on March 28, 2016, 09:31:47 AM
If you live on the South Side or Mandarin, you may think that the loss of another old house means nothing. No worries, I understand. But the fact that the City employees and Mayoral appointees so blatantly ignore the very laws they are charged with enforcing should mean a lot to you. It should be showing you exactly why this City is not living up to it's potential.
Welcome to the Neighborhood.
Anyone else feeling sorry for the..............
Some observations from the 3/28/16 EPB Water Committee meeting and the EPB Air Odor & Noise Committee meeting.
The Chair of the EPB Water Committee is Bobby L. Baker, P.E. From the 3/28/16 Deptartment report EPB Water Committee handout by Terry Carr under Water Quality Studies.
-Shellfish Areas: The 2 year data collection for the Shellfish areas has been completed. The data was presented at the Timucuan Science and History Symposium in January. A final report will be prepared by May 31. WOW! What happened to Waterways? Sort of like the Backroom deal FIND meetings. We are so LOST.
Another Water Committee handout for Feb. 2016 data.
Total number of well construction permits issued: 112
Total number of Irrigation well permits issued: 14
Total number of Domestic Potable & Public Supply well permits issued: 26
Some observations from the EPB Air and Noise Committee handouts. The Chair is Lucinda Sonnenberg PH.D
Number of open burning complaints: 30
Validated open burning complaints: 2
Referred to enforcement: 0
NTC's Issued: 0
Odor- Complaints: 10 Validated: 0
Air Pollution- Nuisance: 0 Validated: 0
Air Pollution- General: 6 Validated: 0
There was more information on other issues discussed. This was my first committee meeting. Want to know when the next Education & Public Outreach committee meeting is.
All the Rules are changing.
Visit Jacksonville!
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 28, 2016, 05:56:31 PM
I'm also, admittedly, all for conspiracy theories.
Could there be a collective agenda by those in the know who may be actively assisting the area in an effort to force it to lose its historic designation?
Remove some bureaucratic red tape, swoop in as the overall, average home price plummets even further and buy swaths of urban land for pennies on the dollar and sell the package off to a developer for a complete redevelopment. I'm sure the contract for the rolling-fine amnesty agreement is already written.
It's a lot to tie together, but I wonder how much of the property in the area can be tied directly (or indirectly) to those in prominent positions?
Awesome post!
This IS happening on our Waterways.
Visit Jacksonville!
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on March 29, 2016, 07:23:19 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 28, 2016, 05:56:31 PM
I'm also, admittedly, all for conspiracy theories.
Could there be a collective agenda by those in the know who may be actively assisting the area in an effort to force it to lose its historic designation?
Remove some bureaucratic red tape, swoop in as the overall, average home price plummets even further and buy swaths of urban land for pennies on the dollar and sell the package off to a developer for a complete redevelopment. I'm sure the contract for the rolling-fine amnesty agreement is already written.
It's a lot to tie together, but I wonder how much of the property in the area can be tied directly (or indirectly) to those in prominent positions?
Except very few people want to buy/develop in Springfield.
Where do you get your information Murder_me_Rachel? Ask any realtor and he/she will tell you the available homes in Springfield has dwindled to almost nothing. And I know for a fact there are MANY new homes being built right now in the neighborhood.
Actually as far as Historic Districts go, based on the current sales of rehabbed historic houses, those needing renovation and even new construction, Springfield is pretty darn popular. Older and more affordable than the other historic districts in Jacksonville, Springfield is attracting buyers from pretty much every walk of life. Jaxunicorn is correct, and while the buyer base for all historic districts is a smaller group than say those wishing to buy in the burbs, Springfield is one of the few urban core communities that is considered "hot" real-estate wise.
Which is why it is so wasteful to demolish rather than save the potential tax base.
So, will Kim' DEMO' Scott have a positive impact on neighborhoods? What are her qualifications for this this job? I bet I (and many others) could do a much better job.
Quote from: mbwright on March 29, 2016, 09:00:20 AM
So, will Kim' DEMO' Scott have a positive impact on neighborhoods? What are her qualifications for this this job? I bet I (and many others) could do a much better job.
Amen to that mbwright!!! She's obviously not qualified because $1,000,000 in NSP funds were mis-used under her watch.
Quote from: JaxUnicorn on March 29, 2016, 12:50:46 PM
Quote from: mbwright on March 29, 2016, 09:00:20 AM
So, will Kim' DEMO' Scott have a positive impact on neighborhoods? What are her qualifications for this this job? I bet I (and many others) could do a much better job.
Amen to that mbwright!!! She's obviously not qualified because $1,000,000 in NSP funds were mis-used under her watch.
And I don't think it takes a genius to understand that a qualified bid for work at $46k is better than a non-bid $50k work order.
Well....
Unless you're Lloyd Contracting or the person who may or may not be receiving the kickbacks.
Let me fix that for you:
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 29, 2016, 01:12:49 PM
Quote from: JaxUnicorn on March 29, 2016, 12:50:46 PM
Quote from: mbwright on March 29, 2016, 09:00:20 AM
So, will Kim' DEMO' Scott have a positive impact on neighborhoods? What are her qualifications for this this job? I bet I (and many others) could do a much better job.
Amen to that mbwright!!! She's obviously not qualified because $1,000,000 in NSP funds were mis-used under her watch.
QuoteAnd I don't think it takes a genius to understand that a qualified bid for work at $46k $ 24,295.00 if they had actually followed the lawful decision of the HPC is better than a non-bid $50k work order.
Well....
Unless you're Lloyd Contracting or the person who may or may not be receiving the kickbacks.
More than twice to do what they wanted to do rather than follow the true lawful order of the HPC.
Quote from: strider on March 29, 2016, 02:53:36 PM
More than twice to do what they wanted to do rather than follow the true lawful order of the HPC.
i understand that.
The point I'm making is why would you pay $50k for something you already have a quote in hand for less? As taxpayers, that's our money, not hers, and there damn well should be some more accountability.
I personally think that the angle you guys should be pursuing is the apparent fraud that seems to be taking place on a regular basis. Because the paper trail seems it would be a little easier to follow due to the sunshine nature of public bids, and the person(s) responsible could face a little more than a slap on the wrist. You would probably have an easy go getting some additional funding to help from the contractors who are regularly out-bid on jobs. Or in this case, the low bid, but still missing the contract.
Either way, it still serves your purpose of saving the houses if you can find alternative ways to remove the people who are making the decisions at the top.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 29, 2016, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: strider on March 29, 2016, 02:53:36 PM
More than twice to do what they wanted to do rather than follow the true lawful order of the HPC.
i understand that.
The point I'm making is why would you pay $50k for something you already have a quote in hand for less? As taxpayers, that's our money, not hers, and there damn well should be some more accountability.
I personally think that the angle you guys should be pursuing is the apparent fraud that seems to be taking place on a regular basis. Because the paper trail seems it would be a little easier to follow due to the sunshine nature of public bids, and the person(s) responsible could face a little more than a slap on the wrist. You would probably have an easy go getting some additional funding to help from the contractors who are regularly out-bid on jobs. Or in this case, the low bid, but still missing the contract.
Either way, it still serves your purpose of saving the houses if you can find alternative ways to remove the people who are making the decisions at the top.
+1000000
QuoteEither way, it still serves your purpose of saving the houses if you can find alternative ways to remove the people who are making the decisions at the top.
This. If there is a legal case to be brought, then take the money you raise and use it for that. It will save a lot more houses in the long run than just saving one house at a time.
PSOS is certainly taking further actions on this. We will discuss this when it is appropriate to do so.
In the meantime, we need to encourage HPC to raise the standard for demolitions ie the Engineering Reports need to be REPORTS with calculations and measurements of structural weakness or strength and not just a short letter of vague statements. In the case of the demo of 1st street, the engineer's statement was "the floors are wavy". My grandson could do better than that.
Logically, you ask, why should the HPC make a more stringent case for examination of these structures when they are OBVIOUSLY ignored by the city's top guns? They must continue to demand that the protection of historic structures occur and they must put that in writing. I wish the chairman of the HPC would have read the Final Order carefully and fought the changes that the OGC made. Perhaps next time, he will.
It is disheartening to say the least.
It is not an easy fight to save the houses. Never has been.
Quote from: mbwright on March 28, 2016, 08:40:15 AM
It seems like there are absolutely no consequences for the illegal demos.
SMART demolition
SMART Ethics training.
Anyone else feeling sorry for the .............................PSOS gang?
The 4/4/16 Jacksonville Ethics Commission meeting at 5 pm 1st floor at city hall. Open to the Public will now be SMART Ethics training. Can't make this stuff up. Will there be any media there? How about somebody letting the Wounded Warriors Board of Directors know about this FREE training.
PSOS gang if you decide to show up bring your favorite Tonka demo toy for inspiration. Hope your laughing.
Stay Positive.
Visit Jacksonville!
Quote from: sheclown on March 30, 2016, 06:04:53 AM
PSOS is certainly taking further actions on this. We will discuss this when it is appropriate to do so.
In the meantime, we need to encourage HPC to raise the standard for demolitions ie the Engineering Reports need to be REPORTS with calculations and measurements of structural weakness or strength and not just a short letter of vague statements. In the case of the demo of 1st street, the engineer's statement was "the floors are wavy". My grandson could do better than that.
Logically, you ask, why should the HPC make a more stringent case for examination of these structures when they are OBVIOUSLY ignored by the city's top guns? They must continue to demand that the protection of historic structures occur and they must put that in writing. I wish the chairman of the HPC would have read the Final Order carefully and fought the changes that the OGC made. Perhaps next time, he will.
It is disheartening to say the least.
It is not an easy fight to save the houses. Never has been.
Absolutely PSOS will not let this die... What sheclown stated above is absolutely necessary - stringent examination of these structures and real engineering REPORTS is a good first step. We also need to remove some of the power that Code Enforcement has to destroy.
Why doesn't the City of Jacksonville care about
- Preserving our Historic structures?
- Wasting taxpayer dollars?
- Lowering the tax base which in turn lowers the dollars it receives?
- Following its own Ordinances?
- Rendering property unmarketable due to liens?
- Creating BLIGHT?
Aside from the Final Order not matching what was motioned and approved by HPC, I have additional questions regarding the destruction of 439 E 1st Street:
- Why did the City choose to spend $50,000+ to destroy this structure instead of preserving/restoring it?
- Why, when asked at the January, February AND March Urban Core CPAC meetings when this action would take place (the March meeting was the night BEFORE the demo) did Code Enforcement NOT disclose this information, even after Bruce Chauncey assured CPAC he would?
- Why didn't Code Enforcement pull an Alterations/Repair permit to remove the back porch?
- Why was Michael Lloyd Hauling awarded the demolition contract at $50,000 when Code Enforcement had already obtained bids from other companies at a lower price?
- Why was the excavator unloaded before the rear porch was removed?
- Why were there no construction contractors on site?
- Why were there no materials to brace/stabilize the structure on site?
- Why was the rear porch removed with an excavator?
- Why did Code Enforcement violate the 10 Day Asbestos Notification Waiting period?
- Why were Federal NESHAP guidelines not followed during the demolition?
- Why was the debris not kept "adequately wet" to prevent introduction of potentially dangerous particulates into the air as required by FEDERAL LAW?
- Why did the City officials onsite allow the demolition to continue when it was clear potentially dangerous particulates were being introduced into the air?
- Why were the demo and plumbing sewer disconnect permits pulled 7 days AFTER the demolition?
While the demolition was taking place, I called a contact at the City and was told Code Enforcement deemed this historic structure an immediate threat - an emergency. We all know what that means: they don't have to follow any of HPC's orders, or even City Ordinance.
The bottom-line here is for some unknown reason, Code Enforcement (or someone else with some pull) wanted this old gal GONE. She never had a chance because Code Enforcement NEVER intended to remove only the back porch......she was doomed from the beginning. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Quote from: Apache on March 30, 2016, 12:30:10 PM
I still can't figure out the disconnect after a couple years of following these demolitions.
You guys always seem to make a strong case regarding unfollowed ordinances, broken laws, misused federal and local funds, bid rigging, kickbacks and the fact (contrary to some peoples belief at the state of the Springfield real estate market) that after demo, these lots in Springfield in particular, are now virtually useless. The seemingly craziness of Kim whatever her name is still being on city payroll.
Assuming you have your facts straight and your ducks in a row, does not someone in your sphere of influence have the ability to get in front of someone in power for 30 minutes to get to the bottom of the situation.
Apache, do you have a recommendation? Because I'd love to do just what you've suggested.
Quote from: JaxUnicorn on March 30, 2016, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: Apache on March 30, 2016, 12:30:10 PM
I still can't figure out the disconnect after a couple years of following these demolitions.
You guys always seem to make a strong case regarding unfollowed ordinances, broken laws, misused federal and local funds, bid rigging, kickbacks and the fact (contrary to some peoples belief at the state of the Springfield real estate market) that after demo, these lots in Springfield in particular, are now virtually useless. The seemingly craziness of Kim whatever her name is still being on city payroll.
Assuming you have your facts straight and your ducks in a row, does not someone in your sphere of influence have the ability to get in front of someone in power for 30 minutes to get to the bottom of the situation.
Apache, do you have a recommendation? Because I'd love to do just what you've suggested.
In addition to your other efforts have you considered the social media accounts of @HUDgov or @SecretaryCastro ? "Why is the City of Jacksonville allowed to misuse NSP funds with impunity?" or something more eloquent?
OR or @CityofJax @jaxmayorcurry what do you think about: Kim Scott overseeing unfollowed ordinances, broken laws, misused federal and local funds, bid rigging, kickbacks?
Social media isn't the end all, but it has a bigger reach and is very public. Something needs to be done to shed light on this and make the public more aware.
Channel 4 is a MetroJax partner aren't they? Maybe it's time to push for the "I-team" to investigate? They sure jumped on GMF over their HUD issues.
The I-Team investigators are good at digging for facts and exposing people and systems that need public scrutiny, and they welcome you suggestions of where to dig. Please email iteam@news4jax.com or sent a text to 904-479-NEWS. Include as many details, names and other specifics as you can. And, yes, you certainly can remain anonymous.I believe First Coast News did one story on Kim Scott & misuse of NSP funds a while back, did they ever follow up or do more digging?
I agree, give the news teams a story and they will run it. They covered the demolition of this house and they always love a good corruption story.
Quote from: Apache on March 30, 2016, 09:18:03 PM
Quote from: JaxUnicorn on March 30, 2016, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: Apache on March 30, 2016, 12:30:10 PM
I still can't figure out the disconnect after a couple years of following these demolitions.
You guys always seem to make a strong case regarding unfollowed ordinances, broken laws, misused federal and local funds, bid rigging, kickbacks and the fact (contrary to some peoples belief at the state of the Springfield real estate market) that after demo, these lots in Springfield in particular, are now virtually useless. The seemingly craziness of Kim whatever her name is still being on city payroll.
Assuming you have your facts straight and your ducks in a row, does not someone in your sphere of influence have the ability to get in front of someone in power for 30 minutes to get to the bottom of the situation.
Apache, do you have a recommendation? Because I'd love to do just what you've suggested.
Sure. Get in front of the mayor. Surely stephendare, chrisufgator, tachale or someone has a connection to him. Get someone who can speak succinctly and unemotionally in front of him for a half hour.
SMART Ethics training 4 days out. 5pm 1 st floor of city hall. Open to the Public. FREE TRAINIG. We should build a stage for this.
You may not get 30 minutes but it is still a noticed meeting and on the agenda should be an agenda item for 3 minutes for PUBLIC COMMENT.
Why not?
Will there be any media there? I believe that most of the Jacksonville Ethics Commission is made up of attorneys.
Anyone else feeling sorry for the ........................PSOS gang? WINNERS!
Stay Positive.
Visit Jacksonville!
There needs to be some sort of concrete definition, for what is deemed an 'Emergency' and would then bypass all of the normal regulations. It can only be used, when all other avenues have been exhausted, and is approved by the HPC. If a building had a fire, and all of a sudden was listing 35 degrees to the left, over a sidewalk, that might qualify, but I have yet to see any that did not come down without a fight, and obviously were far more stable than was implied, or reported in an opinion, not an official, structural engineering report that specifically covers historic building construction.
taken from the MCCD websitee. This is obviously false.
The Municipal Code Compliance Division enforces property maintenance, safety, and zoning codes, which affect the quality of life in Jacksonville. These laws address property nuisance, unsafe structures, residential/commercial minimum building standards, zoning, and (private property) junk vehicle violations.
Municipal Code Compliance enforces provisions of the Property Safety and Maintenance Codes and Zoning Codes, Jacksonville Ordinance Code Chapter 518, Chapter 656, and Chapter 741 respectively.
FILE AN ISSUE OF CONCERN
You may notify us of an issue online now. Please follow the steps to complete your concern, or you may call (904) 630-CITY (2489), and a customer service representative will receive your request for assistance and/or subsequent investigation by a Municipal Code Compliance Officer. Thank you for assisting us with improving the quality of life in Jacksonville.
Bryan Mosier, Chief
214 North Hogan Street, 1st Floor
Jacksonville, FL 32202
(904) 255-7000 | Fax: (904) 255-8920 | bmosier@coj.net
Quote from: Apache on March 30, 2016, 09:18:03 PM
Quote from: JaxUnicorn on March 30, 2016, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: Apache on March 30, 2016, 12:30:10 PM
I still can't figure out the disconnect after a couple years of following these demolitions.
You guys always seem to make a strong case regarding unfollowed ordinances, broken laws, misused federal and local funds, bid rigging, kickbacks and the fact (contrary to some peoples belief at the state of the Springfield real estate market) that after demo, these lots in Springfield in particular, are now virtually useless. The seemingly craziness of Kim whatever her name is still being on city payroll.
Assuming you have your facts straight and your ducks in a row, does not someone in your sphere of influence have the ability to get in front of someone in power for 30 minutes to get to the bottom of the situation.
Apache, do you have a recommendation? Because I'd love to do just what you've suggested.
Sure. Get in front of the mayor. Surely stephendare, chrisufgator, tachale or someone has a connection to him. Get someone who can speak succinctly and unemotionally in front of him for a half hour.
We have spoken, on numerous occasions with three different mayors -- Peyton,
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,9603.0.html
Brown and Curry. Peyton's administration helped us with a moratorium for a while. Brown and Curry listened attentively, for a nano second.
We have contacted federal agencies and gotten them to respond with an audit that spanked the city.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jun-busted-feds-audit-jax-after-kim-scott-demolition-spree
We have spoken to the press and gotten good stories written.
To top it all off -- We reported that Kimberly Scott was not using proper procedures when demolishing structures with asbestos. See
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=20494.75
And shortly thereafter Kimberly Scott was named director over the very agency who monitors compliance with asbestos abatement.
It takes a long time to turn the barge. At times it seems imperceptible.
Maybe code enf should be called on her place of residence....I'm sure there is something wrong, or even if not, might be fun.
Quote from: sheclown on March 28, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: menace1069 on March 28, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...
I guess you haven't been paying attention.
PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them. We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency". We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.
However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.
Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.
Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?
I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.
Quote from: menace1069 on May 10, 2016, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: sheclown on March 28, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: menace1069 on March 28, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...
I guess you haven't been paying attention.
PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them. We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency". We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.
However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.
Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.
Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?
I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.
The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it. I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.
And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.
When a neighborhood has a Historic designation, none of the homes should be demolished. End of Story.
Quote from: mbwright on May 11, 2016, 08:31:15 AM
When a neighborhood has a Historic designation, none of the homes should be demolished. End of Story.
Agreed! If the entire neighborhood has the designation, then nothing should be touched.
Quote from: sheclown on May 11, 2016, 07:18:18 AM
Quote from: menace1069 on May 10, 2016, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: sheclown on March 28, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: menace1069 on March 28, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...
I guess you haven't been paying attention.
PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them. We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency". We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.
However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.
Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.
Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?
I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.
The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it. I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.
And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.
Well that's dumb. What is their reasoning? Do they fall back on the "it's not a safe structure" excuse? If not, what's the deal?
Quote from: menace1069 on May 11, 2016, 04:58:10 PM
Quote from: sheclown on May 11, 2016, 07:18:18 AM
Quote from: menace1069 on May 10, 2016, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: sheclown on March 28, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: menace1069 on March 28, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...
I guess you haven't been paying attention.
PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them. We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency". We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.
However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.
Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.
Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?
I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.
The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it. I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.
And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.
Well that's dumb. What is their reasoning? Do they fall back on the "it's not a safe structure" excuse? If not, what's the deal?
Look at just this one set of facts. A bid to do only the addition and stabilize the main house was $25K ish. There was also a complete demo bid at about $28K. They hired the demo contractor who they most often use (or his uncles company in which case essentially the same people do the work) for emergency demo's and I think a majority of the regular demolitions done in Jacksonville. The complete demo was done with many MCCD employees around, the added cost of an engineer to say the floor was wavy and the final cost listed on the week late permit as $50K. Even using the higher complete demo cost as a comparison, that was $22K EXTRA for the demolition. And they had to get a Lawyer to change the Final Order and the city had to break other laws to do it that way. Where do you think all or part of the extra $22K ended up?
It seems like the city should have been able to do quite some repairs to the house for $50K...
The problem with that scenario is that the demo guy (favored buddy) does not get work, and MCCD does not get a kick back (speculation) and an opportunity to pat themselves on the back. Had they spent $50K on stabilization/restoration, it would have added value to the house. Very sad that a HISTORIC neighborhood has ZERO PROTECTION, and ZERO consequences for those involved with all of these demos. It should be criminal, but I guess you can't charge MCCD with something that would change their way of doing things. Just imagine if this area was complete, like Savannah, Charleston, and others. It would be a greatly improved property tax generating area.
Quote from: mbwright on May 13, 2016, 09:10:12 AM
The problem with that scenario is that the demo guy (favored buddy) does not get work, and MCCD does not get a kick back (speculation) and an opportunity to pat themselves on the back. Had they spent $50K on stabilization/restoration, it would have added value to the house. Very sad that a HISTORIC neighborhood has ZERO PROTECTION, and ZERO consequences for those involved with all of these demos. It should be criminal, but I guess you can't charge MCCD with something that would change their way of doing things. Just imagine if this area was complete, like Savannah, Charleston, and others. It would be a greatly improved property tax generating area.
See, that's what I don't get about Jacksonville. We have some absolutely BEAUTIFUL Victorian homes in the Springfield area and I would think that people would be snapping them right up to restore and habitat or sell them.
I have lived in both Savannah and Charleston and it is truly awesome when people take the time to renovate or restore a historic home.