Toll lanes for I-95 Under Consideration
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4346361174_LBDtxCm-L.jpg)
Get used to seeing construction cones on I-95. More are on the way. Tolls will also return.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-oct-toll-lanes-for-i-95-under-consideration
I wish they would wait to see how big of a failure the 295 tolls they're working on now is. This is not Houston, put your money elsewhere FDOT!
Maybe once people start paying what it costs to sprawl all over NE Fl they will stop doing it. The free ride is over - litterally.
Let's see how well the traffic flows without a massive construction project on I-95 before we add toll lanes. By my tally, there has been construction between Stockton and Emerson since 2002.
I didn't make the Work Program meeting. Did FDOT annouce that I-295 Express (JTB to 9B) would start in the next few months? That's funny, because final design hasn't started yet.
^ The 295 express lanes project is Design Build, and the award is under protest.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 08, 2015, 09:32:41 PM
^ The 295 express lanes project is Design Build, and the award is under protest.
Right, but was there an announcement about the protest and it being resolved in the next few months to start work?
Looks like FDOT is scrapping the toll lanes on I-95 between Atlantic Blvd all the way south to International Golf Parkway in favor of general lanes.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/08/23/fdot-express-lanes.html (https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/08/23/fdot-express-lanes.html)
"The previously planned I-95 Managed Lanes projects between Atlantic Boulevard and International Golf Parkway was reevaluated," FDOT wrote in a statement to the Business Journal last week. "FDOT planners and engineers determined congestion relief can be achieved with general purpose lanes instead of managed lanes."
Although FDOT officials told the Business Journal that interstate improvements are slated to begin between 2023 and 2025, the project is not included on the seven 'future projects' slated to begin in St. Johns County in fiscal year 2023 that the department lists on its website.
Quote
It is unclear why the state has decided not to build the express lanes, which have been on the books since at least 2016. When the project planning began, adding regular lanes wasn't even evaluated as an option.
Simple - Gov. Rick Scott favored (demanded) toll lanes as 'user fees' on all Interstate expansions. Gov. Desantis does not like toll lanes. That's why the two pieces of I-295 designed and permitted during Scott's term (Buckman Bridge to I-95 and SR 9B to JTB) have toll lanes.
Interestingly, the North Florida TPO's Long Range Transportation Plan (http://northfloridatpo.com/planning/lrtp - Summary Report [pdf]) shows Express Lanes "needed" in St. Johns County on I-95, but not in Duval; yet the Adopted Cost Feasible Plan shows "Add Lanes and Reconstruct" not specifying whether they should be "express (toll)" lanes or free lanes.
^ the reality is also that the toll lanes on I-295 in Mandarin are financially a loser. There simply isn't enough congestion in NE FL to support them. Unfortunately, adding lanes for general purpose does nothing to curb our driving habits.
FDOT is holding a public hearing (http://fdotwp1.dot.state.fl.us/publicsyndication/PublicMeetings.aspx/publicmeetings_district2) on Jan 13th about the I-95 widening as part of the PD&E study. Proposal is now for 4-6 general use + auxillary lanes per direction, up to 12 lanes overall.
The project is split into two phases, from I-295 to JTB (https://nflr2.com/I95-295toJTB.aspx) and from JTB to Atlantic Blvd (https://nflr2.com/I95-JTBtoATL.aspx).
I'm not saying it is in fact possible to prevent it, although they do say-
QuoteA No-Build or Do-Nothing Alternative, which would leave I-95 in its present condition, remains a viable alternative throughout the study. The No-Build Alternative would not add additional lanes or propose any interchange improvements.
But I think it'd be nice if there were at least
some expression of interest in building alternative transit vs spending hundreds of millions on widening.
^ Aside from other aspects of this I-95 project, it is sad to see what will probably result in the ultimate removal of all the greenery that lines I-95 through this part of Jacksonville.
Driving I-95 and other expressways in South Florida and in parts of California and New York, one sees nothing but ugly and dirty concrete surfaces and walls.
Going back to the origins of I-95 south of the river, it was always nice to see a substantial buffer of trees and other greenery along its sides, somewhat unique in an urbanized area. When the sound walls went up during its widening to 6 lanes, FDOT spent millions to grow vines on the walls and plant trees in front of them. Is all that, now mostly mature vegetation, to be ripped away with this expansion? Will we have concrete mostly from wall to wall? Will we now call it "ugly 95"?
Looking at the two links marcusnelson provided, and doing a lot of scrolling I found:
I-295 to JTB
With the right-of-way ranging from 300' to 324', it looks like there will be room for grass and other plants between the road and the right-of-way.
The only new Noise Wall will be near the Canopy Apartments on Belfort Parkway.
The Baymeadows Road interchange will be converted to a Diverging Diamond. FDOT completed one at I-95 and A1A near Yulee a little bit ago, and is currently doing the same to the JTB / San Pablo interchange.
This project is split into 2 pieces. From Baymeadows to JTB is scheduled in 2023 for $39 Million, and between I-295 and JTB is in 2025 for $109 Million
Between JTB and Atlantic Blvd.
Due to the ROW only being around 200' it doesn't look like there will be much room for any vegetation.
It looks like most of the gaps in the existing Noise Wall north of University will be filled in, and a short segment south of University will be extended.
This project will have to Diverging Diamonds - JTB / Belfort and I-95 / Emerson
Construction is scheduled to start in fiscal year 2023 (July 2022-June 2023) at a cost of $238 Million
Total Construction Cost $386 million
It would be nice as well that instead of the FDOT making operational improvements per their usual projects in Jacksonville, they actually provide more aesthetics and modern features/fixtures to the highways. Better looking wayfinding signage and materials, modern street lights, maybe some type of focal point as you get closer to downtown. All of this is currently being done on I-4 which makes the highway more of a enjoyment than a concrete jungle to navigate. It's just done right in so many other places in Florida outside of Jacksonville.
Jagsdrew: I have always thought the same thing. Anyone who has ever driven in Orlando, Tampa or Miami will realize that their highways are on a different level, aesthetics-wise, compared to Jacksonville. Colorful sound walls with designs of dolphins, palm trees and birds; well-kept landscaping; and upgraded highway lights and signage. Here in Jax we get beige everything, flat sound walls and generic lamps and signage. I actually wrote a letter to FDOT yesterday asking that they consider including these upgraded aesthetic features in this I-95 project.
Unfortunately, NE FDOT has publicly stated we don't do beautiful roads. We just do roads.
They also said, we don't do shared use paths on Interstate bridges.....until we pushed and demanded one be included on the Fuller Warren project. The other cities across the state get extra things because they demand and push for them. The precedence has always been there. We just need to follow their lead more consistently.
Lakelander: I wrote an email letter to Michael Brock, the FDOT project manager, to make just such a push for "upgraded aesthetics". Michael.Brock@dot.state.fl.us
I still believe color coded wayfarer signs for DT areas such as Sport District, Government District, Medical District, Museums, etc. would be helpful for both locals and visitors. Especially with all the bridges we have. Can be confusing to visitors.
Quote from: jaxjags on January 07, 2022, 03:21:51 PM
I still believe color coded wayfarer signs for DT areas such as Sport District, Government District, Medical District, Museums, etc. would be helpful for both locals and visitors. Especially with all the bridges we have. Can be confusing to visitors.
First, you'd need the DIA to stop spending money to invent names and logos for parts of the core and agree on a color scheme - and names.
According to DR DIA is trying again.
Sorry JBJ article.
Upgraded Aesthetics signage:
' Florida's First Coast- where the concrete begins!'
Attended the hearing. Most people who attended were largely concerned about the effects of the highway on their property, with a few people more broadly concerned about the general issue of building this many lanes.
The Harley Davidson dealership is incredibly upset, because the Diverging Diamond Interchange at Baymeadows would make it very difficult to access their dealership, especially with 18-wheelers or a group of motorcycles for charity rides.
FDOT's engineers and consultants were nice enough, but there was a real lack of responsibility on their part about the impact of what they are attempting to build. Apparently they have to rebuild the highway because the surface isn't thick enough for modern standards, and purportedly state law requires that they double the number of lanes to meet the Level Of Service. Please note, this construction will only bring the highway to LOS C. Also the price tag has risen from $386 million to $451 million, caused largely by an increase in the cost of the JTB-Atlantic Blvd portion.
One of the consultants said that the difference between Jacksonville and South/Central Florida is that those communities are apparently clamoring for transit in a way that North Florida isn't. There was a real sense of blindness towards the existence of the FEC as an option for passenger rail, and a weird focus by the engineer on buses, like how you can't get people to ride buses or the eventual possibility of taking some of the lanes (because it's very hard to make a guess of future traffic numbers, as Riverside Avenue should prove) for buses or autonomous vehicles, which are "the future". There was also a claim that this should be the last time they have to widen the highway because future widening could be cost-prohibitive, so surely next time we would have to build transit. Very interesting thinking going on at FDOT.
You can mail in or email public comments to Project Manager Michael Brock at michael.brock@dot.state.fl.us until January 24th, so whatever your feelings about this highway I encourage you to make that clear to FDOT.
When an ever increasing Level of Service can no longer be met / accommodated ....... Then What?
You become the ATL.
It would be great if people would ride light rail but they don't just look at the two systems we have in Florida, Sunrail and Tri-Rail. Both lose a huge amount of money each year. Already the counties along the Sunrail Line are worried about taking over the payments.
Sunrail should have been busier, since all of I-4 was under construction and this was before the Covid hit. Tri-Rail only gets around 15,000 trips a day about what a two-lane roadway can handle. People say they will ride, but the numbers say they won't. Tri-Rail will need grants and other income. Last years budget was around $120 million and total revenue is around $7.0 million. The state will have to continue to kick in over $100 million a year to keep it going.
Sunrail has fewer than 1,000 people ride on SunRail a day, on average. The commuter train runs up a huge deficit at taxpayer's expense, to the tune of almost $50 million a year. $150 million a year is a lot of taxpayer money for very few trips. In Sunrail's case with a budget deficit of $50 million per year and only 1,000 riders it would be cheaper to just buy everyone a car (Tesla) and be done with it. That is why buses would be better.
I agree you can't build your way out of this with roads but I-95 in Jax is a different matter. The section from the overland bridge to Bowden was designed in the late 1940s by the old Jacksonville Expressway Authority. The design speed was just 50 mph and the late 1940s AASHTO standards. All of the vertical curves are to short and cause accidents, the roadway needs to be brought up to modern standards and site distance needs to be approved. Rail would be great if anyone rode it, but the first step from a cost standpoint is express buses.
I can't speak to the engineering of this section of I-95.
But, as noted many times on the Jaxson, it is somewhat unfair to discuss losses on mass transit without taking into account the costs of acquiring land, building (mostly "free use") roads, financing them, maintaining them and expanding them plus the personal costs and value of our time we incur driving on them (i.e. with mass transit, arguably, a passenger could be productive somewhat since they don't have to attend to driving). And, in some respects, mass transit precedes demand and the speed at which the population adapts to its availability (i.e. these losses could be viewed as "startup costs").
Common sense says that, if properly done, with scale, sharing transit vehicles has to be far cheaper than a vehicle for every one or two people.
The problem is how do we get off this treadmill of roads and cars. In other parts of the world, it seems mass transit plays a far greater role than in most areas of this country so it can be a success. If we increased population density, mainly by going vertical and with infill, it would appear that we could get more for our mass transit dollars. But, it is also a "chicken and egg" since people don't want to give up cars without the assurance of good mass transit. Hence, the TOD that Ennis and others pontificate on regularly here but that is not done at all, correctly or consistently in Jacksonville or maybe in many other places too.
The day for mass transit will inevitably come (although it may be delayed if self driving shared vehicles becomes a reality for all) because we just can't continue to add lanes to our highways. When total gridlock is a regular issue, there will be more of an outcry for growing mass transit. It would be nice to anticipate the ultimate arrival of this day by planning now but, of course, we have no visionaries running the show in Northeast Florida.
I think some of the frustration here is our officials don't seriously discuss expanding mass transit as a future option to solving traffic issues. If it is not being discussed, we will never do more than keep adding to roads until we just can't but then it may be "too late" to fix the issues in any reasonable time period or for any reasonable amount.
It will be years before the I-295 toll lanes even cover the costs of collecting the tolls. Don't even think about how long before the construction costs would be covered.
Quote from: Transman on January 17, 2022, 07:45:30 PM
It would be great if people would ride light rail but they don't just look at the two systems we have in Florida, Sunrail and Tri-Rail. Both lose a huge amount of money each year. Already the counties along the Sunrail Line are worried about taking over the payments.
Florida does not have any ight rail systems. Sunrail and Tri-Rail are both commuter rail systems and operate very differently from LRT. They're headways are longer and they have less stops. Sunrail doesn't even run on weekends. In any event, I'm not aware of any public mass transit, school or library system that makes money or breaks even. Commuter rail has its place but it won't replace roadway widenings and construction. However, it can complement when it makes sense. I'm a big fan of commuter rail, but even I struggle to see it making much sense along the FEC corridor any time soon. Intercity rail complemented with BRT/express buses between Jax and St. Augustine seem to be more viable.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 17, 2022, 08:36:43 PM
The problem is how do we get off this treadmill of roads and cars. In other parts of the world, it seems mass transit plays a far greater role than in most areas of this country so it can be a success. If we increased population density, mainly by going vertical and with infill, it would appear that we could get more for our mass transit dollars. But, it is also a "chicken and egg" since people don't want to give up cars without the assurance of good mass transit. Hence, the TOD that Ennis and others pontificate on regularly here but that is not done at all, correctly or consistently in Jacksonville or maybe in many other places too.
The day for mass transit will inevitably come (although it may be delayed if self driving shared vehicles becomes a reality for all) because we just can't continue to add lanes to our highways. When total gridlock is a regular issue, there will be more of an outcry for growing mass transit. It would be nice to anticipate the ultimate arrival of this day by planning now but, of course, we have no visionaries running the show in Northeast Florida.
I think some of the frustration here is our officials don't seriously discuss expanding mass transit as a future option to solving traffic issues. If it is not being discussed, we will never do more than keep adding to roads until we just can't but then it may be "too late" to fix the issues in any reasonable time period or for any reasonable amount.
Follow the money. Many of the major road projects are tools used to feed money to consulting firms, construction companies, contractors, politically connected landowners, etc. It puts turkeys on many family tables at Thanksgiving. The majority of the new highways in this state aren't needed from a mobility or congestion relief standpoint. However, the planning and construction and the resulting access to virgin land are economic drivers for those that stand to directly benefit from the infrastructure investments. Don't get me started on modeling and how that can be manipulated. Until this issue is resolved in a way that alternative modes of mobility can deliver the same $$$, the money will continue to be funneled into road construction. All the mumbo jumbo about congestion relieve, etc., is just that. Hot air for the most part.
^ To follow up on "follow the money," there will inevitably come a time when a new equilibrium will occur where enough people live in developed areas that they will no longer support politicos that don't direct their tax dollars to their neighborhoods vs. the virgin lands. This will be reflected in the campaign fund raising efforts of the politicos who will no longer get the majority of their support from those benefitting from our road building ways. I might add that there may also be lots of development-type people who can benefit from mass transit, not unlike roads, such as adjacent property owners and a similar set of consultants, engineers, transit builders, etc. This would be in addition to the existing residents (vs. very few in the virgin lands :) ) that would tilt the scales further to mass transit.
The question is when does that happen in a City? How long before it happens here? It does appear we are now experiencing a group of developers more focused on infill and the urban core than ever before. And, at least in Duval County, there are not many corners of the county left that haven't already been exploited. I can see a day when maybe Jax area citizens aren't as interested in road projects strictly benefitting areas beyond Duval. But, they might be interested in new mass transit corridors that reach those areas but also include many connections in Duval on the way outbound just as our current roadways tend to do.
This is the most conservative major metropolitan area of the state. When the day arrives that the majority in Northeast Florida demand new mass transit corridors over roadway construction, I can promise you that it will be long after that day has passed in South Florida, Tampa/St. Pete and Orlando. As of now, the others are still building new road corridors in virgin lands of their metropolitan areas and widening urban expressways like crazy.
^ Ennis, agree. A long time for here. I was just focusing on a future with an unknown arrival :).
The Florida cities you cite have millions more people and aren't there yet so I can see it is far down the road from this area.
I do take some inspiration from the Washington, DC, suburbs in Virginia and Maryland and the development of the Metro there. Although, I admit, they have a sugar daddy in Congress who will spend anything to make their living in the area more palatable. That said, having ridden the Metro many times, I find it well used, convenient, clean, reliable and with plenty of TOD along its stops. A good model for others?
I can't find the thread but the I-4 express lanes are open in Orlando and the project is wrapping up altogether. Additionally, the work in that corridor is not done. More express lanes are coming. Crazy. https://i4beyond.com/ (https://i4beyond.com/)