A mall for Florida's premier downtown in the works
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/4341996947_fsfTBDZ-L.jpg)
Who says the age of the enclosed shopping mall is dead? Intended to break ground later this year, The Mall at Miami Worldcenter will challenge that notion.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-sep-a-mall-for-floridas-premier-downtown-in-the-works
You don't have to be a rich and heavily populated metro to have a vibrant downtown. We need downtown retail density of the kind that Jax residents can afford. If city leaders aren't thinking about how to make that happen all the time, then it won't. Consolidated Government really needs to be revisited.
I think an enclosed mall makes sense, really. Much like in Toronto (for example), where the downtown buildings are connected by subterranean walkways that are essentially shopping malls, I can see things like this working in areas where the weather is harsh (too hot, too cold, too wet).
It might be that the era of the large enclosed mall in the suburbs is over - who knows. But an enclosed mall in an urban setting like this might flourish.
The renderings look a lot like Westfield Stratford City, the mall complex built before the Olympics in London. That is still doing very well, although it's only been open for about 4 years.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 10, 2015, 03:06:36 AM
Consolidated Government really needs to be revisited.
You know, I never even thought about that. While I'm sure there are benefits of consolidated government, it probably does mean that parts of the city get the shaft. There isn't a local government to really look after the "urban core's" best interests.
Quote from: Adam White on September 10, 2015, 03:09:02 AM
It might be that the era of the large enclosed mall in the suburbs is over
We have two in the Jax area that are fine. It's not about 'indoors versus outdoors' you can have an outdoor 'town center-esque' mall that goes to crap if the neighborhood becomes run down. Many people on here are in love with these urban outdoor mall around the country, but no one talks about the crime at many of them. If an area goes to crap, then the mall does to, simple as that.
Quote from: I-10east on September 10, 2015, 06:40:45 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 10, 2015, 03:09:02 AM
It might be that the era of the large enclosed mall in the suburbs is over
We have two in the Jax area that are fine. It's not about 'indoors versus outdoors' you can have an outdoor 'town center-esque' mall that goes to crap if the neighborhood becomes run down. Many people on here are in love with these urban outdoor mall around the country, but no one talks about the crime at many of them. If an area goes to crap, then the mall does to, simple as that.
I agree (more or less). I think the health of the mall is dependent on the health of the area is serves. For example, a downtown mall in Jax wouldn't likely work as barely anyone lives there.
Plus - people often move on to the next new/better thing that comes along. I bet Regency (for example) would still be doing okay if the Avenues (and then the Town Center) hadn't come along and poached their customers.
I know we are not Miami, and most people don't want us to be, but how in the world did Jacksonville fall so far behind the rest of Florida? Every city in Florida makes us look old, worn out and tired. Just saying.
Quote from: avonjax on September 10, 2015, 07:55:16 AM
I know we are not Miami, and most people don't want us to be, but how in the world did Jacksonville fall so far behind the rest of Florida? Every city in Florida makes us look old, worn out and tired. Just saying.
One way this happens is the people behind the eight-ball. The very powerful "First Baptist Church" that owns a lot of the buildings in Downtown Jacksonville. When you're a Non-Profit and have a lot of powerful & rich church members. Buying old buildings and turning them into church property can kill the growth of what Jacksonville Downtown could really be. IMO. ;)
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on September 10, 2015, 08:13:48 AM
Quote from: avonjax on September 10, 2015, 07:55:16 AM
I know we are not Miami, and most people don't want us to be, but how in the world did Jacksonville fall so far behind the rest of Florida? Every city in Florida makes us look old, worn out and tired. Just saying.
One way this happens is the people behind the eight-ball. The very powerful "First Baptist Church" that owns a lot of the buildings in Downtown Jacksonville. When you're a Non-Profit and have a lot of powerful & rich church members. Buying old buildings and turning them into church property can kill the growth of what Jacksonville Downtown could really be. IMO. ;)
I'm not a fan of FBC, but I think they're unfairly used as a whipping boy. There is no reason why downtown Jax couldn't be prosperous AND have a large church in the middle of it. In fact, it might even help in some ways.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on September 10, 2015, 08:13:48 AM
Quote from: avonjax on September 10, 2015, 07:55:16 AM
I know we are not Miami, and most people don't want us to be, but how in the world did Jacksonville fall so far behind the rest of Florida? Every city in Florida makes us look old, worn out and tired. Just saying.
One way this happens is the people behind the eight-ball. The very powerful "First Baptist Church" that owns a lot of the buildings in Downtown Jacksonville. When you're a Non-Profit and have a lot of powerful & rich church members. Buying old buildings and turning them into church property can kill the growth of what Jacksonville Downtown could really be. IMO. ;)
You couldn't be more wrong.
There has been no new large scale commercial development downtown recently because there has been no need for it. As Ennis posted a couple weeks back, acquisitions and relocations of downtown companies have left vast amounts of unused space downtown over the past couple decades. That oversupply brings down the market rate and makes new construction impossible because they won't be able to make back their investment at the average rental rate per square foot. As downtown occupancy continues to rise and landlords are able to increase rents, it will make downtown a viable market for new construction and we will start to see some tower cranes on the horizon.
Quote from: avonjax on September 10, 2015, 07:55:16 AM
I know we are not Miami, and most people don't want us to be, but how in the world did Jacksonville fall so far behind the rest of Florida? Every city in Florida makes us look old, worn out and tired. Just saying.
Wow, navel-gaze much? I think this is nonsense. *Every* major city in-state has distinct advantages and disadvantages vis-vis the rest. Jax is no different.
http://youtu.be/olIVBSb5lA8
Here is a video of the condo tower that will be located there. This is going to be an amazing complex. This investment into the city is on top of the billion dollar Brickell City Center that is close to completion......
About an hour ago, I had the opportunity to see Brickell City Center and get the background story of its evolution from Swire Properties. What they are developing is astonishing. DT Miami will look radically different in another five years.
Quote from: RattlerGator on September 10, 2015, 12:11:20 PM
Quote from: avonjax on September 10, 2015, 07:55:16 AM
I know we are not Miami, and most people don't want us to be, but how in the world did Jacksonville fall so far behind the rest of Florida? Every city in Florida makes us look old, worn out and tired. Just saying.
Wow, navel-gaze much? I think this is nonsense. *Every* major city in-state has distinct advantages and disadvantages vis-vis the rest. Jax is no different.
Have you looked at the cities in Florida lately? We look the oldest and most drab. Yes every major city does have advantages and disadvantages but as far as downtowns we have a lot of disadvantage at least in my opinion. I'm not talking about the advantage of the beaches, or great neighborhoods like Avondale, Riverside and San Marco etc, just our downtown.
Avonjax is right,
Yes Jax is decades behind other major cities not only in Florida but throughout the entire Southeast....
I'm headed back to DT Miami now and a few other neighborhoods like Wynwood, Coral Gables and South Beach to load up on a few pictures before flying back to Jax this afternoon.
Check out Design District if you have been there before, lots of cool stuff going on there......
Oh and don't forget the new Miami Cetral Train station is going vertical that complex includes, retail, office and residential........
I got Miami Central. They're doing foundation work right now. I didn't make it to South Beach, Wynwood & the Design District, although I've visited them several times in the past. I ended up burning my photo time in DT, Brickell, Coral Gables and Little Havana.
http://miami.curbed.com/archives/2014/03/17/flagler-street-redo.php
Flagler street in downtown Miami is also getting redone with a railroad theme.....I think they are starting end of the year......I know funding was approved
I spent most of yesterday with the Miami DDA. They gave me a presentation that includes renderings of all projects under construction and proposed for the greater downtown area (roughly bounded by I-195, I-95, Brickell and Biscayne Bay). Downtown's population has doubled over the last five years or so to 80k. Now they are trying to invest in several infrastructure projects in order to create a world class urban core. Flagler St is one of several initiatives that will be underway soon. The two I find most impressive are the proposed remakes of I-395 and Biscayne Boulevard. On Biscayne, they are working with FDOT to make a Boston-style linear greenway & park through the downtown core. When I get a chance, I'll post the presentation here.
Quote from: Adam White on September 10, 2015, 03:09:02 AM
I think an enclosed mall makes sense, really. Much like in Toronto (for example), where the downtown buildings are connected by subterranean walkways that are essentially shopping malls, I can see things like this working in areas where the weather is harsh (too hot, too cold, too wet).
It might be that the era of the large enclosed mall in the suburbs is over - who knows. But an enclosed mall in an urban setting like this might flourish.
The renderings look a lot like Westfield Stratford City, the mall complex built before the Olympics in London. That is still doing very well, although it's only been open for about 4 years.
I have been in that mall at least once a year since it opened and it is always packed.
Quote from: JaxAvondale on September 11, 2015, 07:23:31 PM
Quote from: Adam White on September 10, 2015, 03:09:02 AM
I think an enclosed mall makes sense, really. Much like in Toronto (for example), where the downtown buildings are connected by subterranean walkways that are essentially shopping malls, I can see things like this working in areas where the weather is harsh (too hot, too cold, too wet).
It might be that the era of the large enclosed mall in the suburbs is over - who knows. But an enclosed mall in an urban setting like this might flourish.
The renderings look a lot like Westfield Stratford City, the mall complex built before the Olympics in London. That is still doing very well, although it's only been open for about 4 years.
I have been in that mall at least once a year since it opened and it is always packed.
Yeah, I tend to avoid it on the weekends if I can because it's always ridiculously full. But it does really well on the weekdays, too. Its sister in White City is also prospering. I guess the trick is to build a mall in a densely-populated urban area with great transport links.
Here's a few pictures of Brickell City Center from yesterday. Brickell City Center is a mall that will have a little under 800,000 square feet of retail. It will be anchored by a Saks Fifth Avenue and luxury movie theater called Cinemex. Of interesting note, the mall's parking and circulation is all underground and the residential units are being designed for...and marketed to families, as opposed to empty nesters and millennials.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-tdKKdXq/0/L/DSCF7419-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Miami-River-2015/i-xtHWR7L/0/L/DSCF7379-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-R5JQ25S/0/L/DSCF7424-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-N8bq7bL/0/L/DSCF7426-L.jpg)
Swire will break ground on phase II, a 1,049' tall, 80-story tower when phase 1 nears completion.
(http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/real-estate-news/mtny5v/picture25442656/ALTERNATES/FREE_640/OBCC-Day)
A few shots of DT Miami from the DDA's office:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-BkjC26W/0/L/DSCF7406-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-HDF7n6S/0/L/DSCF7407-L.jpg)
All Aboard Florida's Miami Central Station construction site:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-pDWwczs/0/L/DSCF7412-L.jpg)
Miami is impressive, but its also a destination city with money flowing in from all over the world. Jax is a nice city, we should play to our strengths, we will never, nor should we hope to, be Miami. They are truly a destination city. We have a good thing going here, we just need some smarter people to figure out how to use the empty space we have downtown to fit the needs of us in Jacksonville.
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 12, 2015, 05:27:25 AM
Miami is impressive, but its also a destination city with money flowing in from all over the world. Jax is a nice city, we should play to our strengths, we will never, nor should we hope to, be Miami. They are truly a destination city. We have a good thing going here, we just need some smarter people to figure out how to use the empty space we have downtown to fit the needs of us in Jacksonville.
I agree with you - but surely Miami wasn't always a destination city. Perhaps one day in the very distant future, Jax will be one. It may even have been one once in the past.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-GHG7dWj/0/L/P1750494-L.jpg)
One of Miami Dade College's classroom buildings, fully integrated into the downtown landscape.
Downtown Miami was pretty similar to downtown Jacksonville 30 years ago. Although they are light years apart now, there are a lot of things we face now that we can look to a city like Miami to see how it dealt with them a decade or two ago. These would include keeping a 1980s Rouse Festival Marketplace up-to-date, making an effort to build up around a 1980s peoplemover system, dealing with FDOT to improve the streets for pedestrians, bringing our passenger rail station back to downtown, changing the citywide zoning code to make it more pedestrian scale, integrating a community college into the downtown streetscape, etc. IMO, what Miami truly shows autocentric Sunbelt sprawlers is that they can densify and become a lot more walkable if they are willing make it a priority to do so.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-tPZPBsJ/0/L/P1750487-L.jpg)
Miami-Dade College students traveling between classes spread around downtown's streets, as opposed to be hidden in a fortified campus.
Oh, and the college students fill up a walkable McDonalds as opposed to what we ended up with on State Street. You can get a fast food joint to do better if you create and lobby for the right type of urban environment.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-hKWXn2X/0/L/P1750493-L.jpg)
DT Miami.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2385305055_hz5g9mk-L.jpg)
DT Jax
Serving the same artery clogging menu. One is built for walkability and increased density and the other might was well be in Orange Park.
It's really amazing how much Miami seems to have changed since I was there last (1999).
After living 8 years in JAX and now in Miami, it seems like jAX continually invests in studies and then does nothing........in Miami projects get done.....JAX will never be a Miami but the city could learn a lot from Miami on how to revitalize a downtown core.........
Where does the zoning code rewrite stand? Lori Boyer has referenced that, but is there anyone who is taking the wheel on it? I live in Manhattan and Miami isn't a model city in my opinion; however, downtown Miami is light years ahead of Jax in terms of downtown (even if the downtown Miami street life seems anemic when I've been there, as recently as February). Someone mentioned here before that Jax's dilemma is the beach being so far away. It certainly feels like Downtown Miami is feeding off the spillover from South Beach's "robustness". Not sure Miami's formulas for downtown would even work for Jax, given Jax's downtown won't enjoy spillover from a vibrant beach community. The other issue is Miami's "balance sheet" can more fully back downtown because it's not spreading itself thin looking after the specific concerns of an entire county.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 12, 2015, 08:18:58 AM
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-GHG7dWj/0/L/P1750494-L.jpg)
One of Miami Dade College's classroom buildings, fully integrated into the downtown landscape.
Downtown Miami was pretty similar to downtown Jacksonville 30 years ago. Although they are light years apart now, there are a lot of things we face now that we can look to a city like Miami to see how it dealt with them a decade or two ago. These would include keeping a 1980s Rouse Festival Marketplace up-to-date, making an effort to build up around a 1980s peoplemover system, dealing with FDOT to improve the streets for pedestrians, bringing our passenger rail station back to downtown, changing the citywide zoning code to make it more pedestrian scale, integrating a community college into the downtown streetscape, etc. IMO, what Miami truly shows autocentric Sunbelt sprawlers is that they can densify and become a lot more walkable if they are willing make it a priority to do so.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Downtown-Miami-2015/i-tPZPBsJ/0/L/P1750487-L.jpg)
Miami-Dade College students traveling between classes spread around downtown's streets, as opposed to be hidden in a fortified campus.
Quote from: tpot on September 12, 2015, 12:21:24 PM
After living 8 years in JAX and now in Miami, it seems like jAX continually invests in studies and then does nothing........in Miami projects get done.....JAX will never be a Miami but the city could learn a lot from Miami on how to revitalize a downtown core.........
This is true. I've realized that after living in Jax the past 10 years, but keeping close contact with associates in various cities nationwide.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 12, 2015, 01:07:35 PM
Where does the zoning code rewrite stand? Lori Boyer has referenced that, but is there anyone who is taking the wheel on it?
I haven't heard anything about a full zoning code rewrite since Bill Killingsworth left town. The previous planning director was let go during the election race earlier this year. I'm also, still not sure of what the new administration is planning to do in this particular area.
QuoteI live in Manhattan and Miami isn't a model city in my opinion; however, downtown Miami is light years ahead of Jax in terms of downtown (even if the downtown Miami street life seems anemic when I've been there, as recently as February).
Miami wasn't a large city prior to suburbanization. You won't find one city in America, largely built since 1950 that will offer the walkability of cities that were large prior to WWII. Take a look at this linked list:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/tab18.txt
The major cities (let's say top 50) with population densities of more than 10,000 peopel per square mile, are typically still the most walkable today. What Miami offers Jax, Atlanta, Charlotte and nearly every Sunbelt city outside of New Orleans, Charleston and Savannah, is how to transform an autocentric community into a multimodal friendly one. With that said, Miami isn't a finished project. Today, it's radically different than it was in 2000. In 2020, it will be radically different than it is today. It's continued transformation is a roadmap for smaller sunbelt sprawlers like Jacksonville.
QuoteSomeone mentioned here before that Jax's dilemma is the beach being so far away. It certainly feels like Downtown Miami is feeding off the spillover from South Beach's "robustness". Not sure Miami's formulas for downtown would even work for Jax, given Jax's downtown won't enjoy spillover from a vibrant beach community.
I don't believe this to be the case. Miami is an international gateway and business community. That's fueling its downtown growth. Also, Norfolk/Hampton Roads area is pretty much identical to Jacksonville. It's 21 miles from downtown Norfolk (situated on the Elizabeth River) to Virginia Beach via I-264 (they're JTB). While not Miami (the Hampton Roads area is much smaller) Downtown Norfolk is still ahead of DT Jax because its recent investments have been clustered in close proximity to one another. Same goes for Savannah, which is a similar distance from Tybee Island.
QuoteThe other issue is Miami's "balance sheet" can more fully back downtown because it's not spreading itself thin looking after the specific concerns of an entire county.
Good point. However, other consolidated cities around Jacksonville's size, like Indianapolis, Nashville and Louisville, suggest this can be overcome and consolidation can help fuel downtown growth.
http://miami.curbed.com/archives/2015/04/30/technicolor-tower-of-lights-will-crown-a-new-silicone-beach.php
A developer is still trying to get a "Silicon Beach" going downtown as well.........this would be amazing for the city
Quote from: thelakelander on September 12, 2015, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 12, 2015, 01:07:35 PM
Where does the zoning code rewrite stand? Lori Boyer has referenced that, but is there anyone who is taking the wheel on it?
I haven't heard anything about a full zoning code rewrite since Bill Killingsworth left town. The previous planning director was let go during the election race earlier this year. I'm also, still not sure of what the new administration is planning to do in this particular area.
QuoteI live in Manhattan and Miami isn't a model city in my opinion; however, downtown Miami is light years ahead of Jax in terms of downtown (even if the downtown Miami street life seems anemic when I've been there, as recently as February).
Miami wasn't a large city prior to suburbanization. You won't find one city in America, largely built since 1950 that will offer the walkability of cities that were large prior to WWII. Take a look at this linked list:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/tab18.txt
The major cities (let's say top 50) with population densities of more than 10,000 peopel per square mile, are typically still the most walkable today. What Miami offers Jax, Atlanta, Charlotte and nearly every Sunbelt city outside of New Orleans, Charleston and Savannah, is how to transform an autocentric community into a multimodal friendly one. With that said, Miami isn't a finished project. Today, it's radically different than it was in 2000. In 2020, it will be radically different than it is today. It's continued transformation is a roadmap for smaller sunbelt sprawlers like Jacksonville.
I wasn't suggesting Miami try to be Manhattan or any of the older, northern cities. Having said that, my opinion of the standards of a model city don't change just because a city is in the sunbelt, or has followed a trend of auto-centricity, or even because it is in the US. I've been to many smaller cities in developed countries around the world, and much more thought is given to sustainability and the economic power of giving residents many different mobility options. I thoroughly enjoy your photos and reporting from other cities, I only mentioned the model city bit to make sure Jax doesn't necessarily take its marching orders from its bigger sunbelt neighbors.
There's a ton we could do here, at our size, to put us on track to be a better and more vibrant city, even without the population growth. You don't have to be forced into walkability just because you've become the center of a 4+ million metro. Miami is on the right track, but it still feels very auto-centric, even in DT.
One thing of note about New Orleans, Charleston, Savannah, or other "destination" cities, is that I judge their downtowns to be "theme park" downtowns (I know I'll take a lot of heat over that comment). It's as though they understand that their historic districts (or what I call, vast architectural and place-making museums) are key to tourism and their status as destination cities. Jax may never get that, but DT Jax should exist to serve its people, to be another vibrant neighborhood amongst many which prizes mobility and street-level vibrancy over most else, whose density fosters an abundance of interpersonal engagement and feeds the free-flow of ideas.
QuoteSomeone mentioned here before that Jax's dilemma is the beach being so far away. It certainly feels like Downtown Miami is feeding off the spillover from South Beach's "robustness". Not sure Miami's formulas for downtown would even work for Jax, given Jax's downtown won't enjoy spillover from a vibrant beach community.
I don't believe this to be the case. Miami is an international gateway and business community. That's fueling its downtown growth. Also, Norfolk/Hampton Roads area is pretty much identical to Jacksonville. It's 21 miles from downtown Norfolk (situated on the Elizabeth River) to Virginia Beach via I-264 (they're JTB). While not Miami (the Hampton Roads area is much smaller) Downtown Norfolk is still ahead of DT Jax because its recent investments have been clustered in close proximity to one another. Same goes for Savannah, which is a similar distance from Tybee Island.
In regards to your Norfolk and Savannah references, I didn't mean to say the distance from the beach can't be overcome. I was merely stating that I believe DT Miami is benefitting from South Beach spillover, and IMO, that MAY be a bigger credit to DT Miami's resurgence than any strategy or formula implemented by the Miami DDA or any other policy stimuli. Jax won't have the same spillover benefits, so our efforts to revitalize will be independent of proximity to bustling beaches (should our beaches ever become bustling).
Also, Miami does have the benefit of tons of international inflow, and I would guess that that scale of internationals (who become an economic and policy force in a community) tend to value walkability and density moreso than Americans.
QuoteThe other issue is Miami's "balance sheet" can more fully back downtown because it's not spreading itself thin looking after the specific concerns of an entire county.
Good point. However, other consolidated cities around Jacksonville's size, like Indianapolis, Nashville and Louisville, suggest this can be overcome and consolidation can help fuel downtown growth.
Any chance we can create an anthology of your photos depicting the problems with how Jax is growing for delivery to council members? It's hard to educate on this stuff without photos. The McDonalds comparison is a very good example of what we're doing to undermine the potential of the Urban Priority Area. If we no longer have an advocate in the Planning Department, we should go directly to Council to educate. I'd help fund such an anthology. So many grand visions for Jax get discussed in these threads, but ultimately I guess the city feels it has much bigger fish to fry...like crime and education and poverty. I personally believe that the issues around how we build and develop are more linked to the "big fish" issues than we think.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 12, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
I wasn't suggesting Miami try to be Manhattan or any of the older, northern cities. Having said that, my opinion of the standards of a model city don't change just because a city is in the sunbelt, or has followed a trend of auto-centricity, or even because it is in the US. I've been to many smaller cities in developed countries around the world, and much more thought is given to sustainability and the economic power of giving residents many different mobility options. I thoroughly enjoy your photos and reporting from other cities, I only mentioned the model city bit to make sure Jax doesn't necessarily take its marching orders from its bigger sunbelt neighbors.
Totally understandable. Just to provide more insight on my perspective, I tend to not directly compare the development of American cities to those in other countries because of the era in which those cities were developed and the differences in American policies. Some models, no matter how great, aren't applicable because of our country's regulations, policies and typical infrastructure investments. For example, no doubt Jax could learn a lot from Calgary when it comes to infrastructure investment. Unfortunately, somethings aren't as easily implementable or possible when dealing with infrastructure maintained by an entity like FDOT, which has its own set of policies and design standards.
QuoteThere's a ton we could do here, at our size, to put us on track to be a better and more vibrant city, even without the population growth. You don't have to be forced into walkability just because you've become the center of a 4+ million metro. Miami is on the right track, but it still feels very auto-centric, even in DT.
This is because Miami, grew up in an auto-centric time in America. All 20th century American cities are autocentric. Older American cities like American cities like NYC, Chicago, etc. largely developed during the 19th century, thus the different urban core feel. This also applies to smaller cities. Take Providence, RI and Jax for example. In 1950, Providence had 248k residents, while Jax had 204k. However, Providence was twice as dense because most of it's growth (it had 175k residents in 1900) occurred prior to 20th century zoning regulations and changes in mobility (ex. electric streetcars and automobiles). No matter what Jax does today, it won't end up with the type of density or walkability that Providence has. Our policies, environment, infrastructure design standards, zoning regulations, many of which were changed because of problems with 19th century urban overcrowding won't allow it.
QuoteOne thing of note about New Orleans, Charleston, Savannah, or other "destination" cities, is that I judge their downtowns to be "theme park" downtowns (I know I'll take a lot of heat over that comment). It's as though they understand that their historic districts (or what I call, vast architectural and place-making museums) are key to tourism and their status as destination cities.
I'd agree with that in regards to Charleston and Savannah. However, New Orleans is a different story. It's still a major business center and walkable city...even outside of the small tourist districts. However, it has economically been replaced by Houston.
QuoteJax may never get that, but DT Jax should exist to serve its people, to be another vibrant neighborhood amongst many which prizes mobility and street-level vibrancy over most else, whose density fosters an abundance of interpersonal engagement and feeds the free-flow of ideas.
I agree. I believe this is happening in Miami now. Jax can learn from Miami's experience. There are things taking place in that community that are directly applicable (or avoidable) for a city like Jax, which is also largely autocentric and has to deal with the same agencies at the federal and state levels, when it comes to infrastructure investment.
QuoteIn regards to your Norfolk and Savannah references, I didn't mean to say the distance from the beach can't be overcome. I was merely stating that I believe DT Miami is benefitting from South Beach spillover, and IMO, that MAY be a bigger credit to DT Miami's resurgence than any strategy or formula implemented by the Miami DDA or any other policy stimuli. Jax won't have the same spillover benefits, so our efforts to revitalize will be independent of proximity to bustling beaches (should our beaches ever become bustling).
Also, Miami does have the benefit of tons of international inflow, and I would guess that that scale of internationals (who become an economic and policy force in a community) tend to value walkability and density moreso than Americans.
The Miami we see today is largely a result of a few major events in our regional history.
A. Fidel Castro coming to power in Cuba in 1959, resulting in most refugees relocating to Miami (the closest large American MSA to Cuba).
B. The drug wars (and the economic investment that comes with them) of the 70s and 80s.
C. Immigration from Haiti and Latin America.
Then you have the area's physical liabilities. It's sandwiched between the Atlantic and the Everglades. It's essentially built out. Thus, there's no where to grow but up. Instead of spill over from the beach, the beach actually has benefitted from the same things of regional impact. While the beach and downtown Miami get all the press, what's happening in them are also occurring in other districts across South Florida (ex. DT Fort Lauderdale, DT West Palm Beach, Coral Gables, Sunny Isles Beach, etc.). A good visual example of having no where else to go but up is the Sawgrass Parkway, just north of I-595 in Broward County. Here, the suburbs have stretched out as far as they can go. The Everglades are on the other side of the highway.
(http://www.utexas.edu/opa/photo/slideshows/2011/vulnerable_planet/600_450/figure_19.9.jpg)
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on September 12, 2015, 03:42:22 PM
Any chance we can create an anthology of your photos depicting the problems with how Jax is growing for delivery to council members? It's hard to educate on this stuff without photos. The McDonalds comparison is a very good example of what we're doing to undermine the potential of the Urban Priority Area. If we no longer have an advocate in the Planning Department, we should go directly to Council to educate. I'd help fund such an anthology. So many grand visions for Jax get discussed in these threads, but ultimately I guess the city feels it has much bigger fish to fry...like crime and education and poverty. I personally believe that the issues around how we build and develop are more linked to the "big fish" issues than we think.
^Like you, I believe how you build a city can have a positive or negative impact on issues like crime, education and poverty. What we've built to date, clearly does not work. Luckily, many in the city are familiar with these issues. I had the opportunity to work on the City's Mobility Plan and associated land use modifications that led to the creation of the Urban Priority Area. A zoning overhaul is ultimately needed. We'll get there, but we'll have to start small and it will take time to full implement. We do have a new administration in office, so it's not uncommon to give them a few months to get their team together. However, this particular item isn't just a Jacksonville dilemma. Most American sunbelt cities largely built in the 20th century like Atlanta, Tampa and Orlando also have the same work cut out for them.