This really blows. Take a great cultural festival and relocate it from downtown to an upscale shopping mall in the suburbs, one of the least cultural things I can think of. They say it is because of the shipyards cleanup going on but this seems like a perfect event to move to Hemming Park if some of the surrounding streets were blocked off, what gives? It says 50,000 went last year so it was a pretty good turn out. I for one will not be attending if they have it at SJTC.
http://jaxtoberfest.com/
Upscale shopping mall? The dollar store and target?
Seriously, a terrible location, things like this belong downtown, not in a crappy plaza.
Where exactly is going to be held? In a parking lot?
Aweee, what a bummer. I won't be going this year either :(
There is definitely some SJTC marketing powers at work here in my opinion. Somebody got a huge gift to make this move and my guess is the TC marketing gurus will try everything in their power to make it a permanent move. Probably an effort to make the TC more cultural and more "happening" but it ain't gonna work. You can try to fool people into thinking it is something other than a mall but really it is just a shopping mall that is slightly more attractive than the Avenues. It is sad for Jacksonville or any city if that is what becomes a cultural center of a city. I hope I'm overreacting and next year it will return to downtown or a neighborhood more suited for a cultural festival like this, but my guess is they wanted to move it to the TC for financial reasons and nothing more. Again, I ask, why not Hemming Park or perhaps Riverside Park, Memorial Park, or Metropolitan Park (which is right next to the shipyards where it was last year)? I'm left thinking what they claim is complete BS and it has nothing to do with the work they are doing at the site, are they even still doing any work there? And if I hear one comment about there not being adequate parking I'm going to blow a gasket!
A very lame move. I'm sure there was some sort of a financial incentive as there are so many other more unique, cultural areas in our city that would create a better festival. :o
Enjoy the vibrant cultural atmosphere that is the parking lot of a privately owned suburban mall!
Been nice knowing you, Jaxtoberfest.
I mean, I *thought* a downtown riverfront was a pretty good location, but that's before they moved to the "center of town": a mall parking lot!
The sad truth is that they'll likely boast a higher attendee count because SJTC shoppers will probably stumble into the event and have a beer - and with UNF next door, perhaps they'll have a steady flow of college drinkers.
For what it's worth, I went to the actual Oktoberfest in Munich in 2012, and it's on large Fairgrounds and doesn't feel very urban...you're just under tents or at picnic tables on a vast open field. Of course, you're still in the heart of Munich and once you leave the festival grounds, you're back in the thick of the city's density. You're definitely not in a mall or mall parking lot though.
Munich isn't a vertical city, but it's incredibly dense and compact, and everything is transit-oriented and pedestrian-scale. Love that place.
Lets just all go to Art Walk instead. They are doing a Oktoberfest type event next month.
Why couldn't it be along Laura St. with Hemming and the Landing being the principal nodes, with the vacant lots along Laura taking some of the overflow. Why couldn't it be just like the Jazz Festival use to be.
That is how it would be done anywhere else in the world, at least.
I've gotten free tickets to Jaxtoberfest the last two years and it was still a ripoff. Almost all of the beer can be bought or had on draft at Beer:30 , Kickbacks, Alewife, etc. There's very few things to do there, and it's usually a scorcher in the middle of a contaminated shipyard field while a shitty cover band plays pop-country tunes. Good riddance.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 09, 2015, 08:40:01 AM
Quote from: CCMjax on September 08, 2015, 07:06:02 PM
There is definitely some SJTC marketing powers at work here in my opinion. Somebody got a huge gift to make this move and my guess is the TC marketing gurus will try everything in their power to make it a permanent move. Probably an effort to make the TC more cultural and more "happening" but it ain't gonna work. You can try to fool people into thinking it is something other than a mall but really it is just a shopping mall that is slightly more attractive than the Avenues. It is sad for Jacksonville or any city if that is what becomes a cultural center of a city. I hope I'm overreacting and next year it will return to downtown or a neighborhood more suited for a cultural festival like this, but my guess is they wanted to move it to the TC for financial reasons and nothing more. Again, I ask, why not Hemming Park or perhaps Riverside Park, Memorial Park, or Metropolitan Park (which is right next to the shipyards where it was last year)? I'm left thinking what they claim is complete BS and it has nothing to do with the work they are doing at the site, are they even still doing any work there? And if I hear one comment about there not being adequate parking I'm going to blow a gasket!
It isn't parking, it's size. I have talked to someone intimately involved in the planning. You couldnt hold it at Memorial, Riverside or Hemming Park as those sites are not nearly big enough. And, while I agree that I wish it were downtown, we are outliers here on these boards. Most people in Jax I think would prefer SJTC.
Are you serious? Not big enough???? That's what they told you? Not very creative individuals involved in this shindig eh? I used to live in the old German neighborhood in Chicago and went to Mayfest, Germanfest, Oktoberfest, Rib Fest and just about every other big festival in the neighborhood and they just blocked off the main street running through the hood, no park or nothing, just street. There was virtually no parking (no need since nobody drives there) and the streets were packed but not too packed, plenty to do and watch and everybody having a great time. Although I do like the idea of having the main stages or whatever in a park, it is still possible even without a park or large open area. So, not big enough in terms of what? Let me guess, big surface parking lot?
In regards to your second comment, I realize most people in Jax would like the idea of having it at the TC because they think it's the most glorious place on earth, and that is exactly what is wrong with Jacksonville in my opinion. Most residents here don't really realize, or don't care what they are missing out on and what has been lost when the mall is the most culturally significant thing in the city. I've lived in other cities where the mindset of people changed and these cultural things became more important and popular, and people started to get it and flock back to downtown and real cultural centers. It can happen here too (sorry for being yet another optimist in the 3 to 4 decade long push to get Jax on track by saying things like "we have potential!", lol).
So Oktoberfest is bigger than say One Spark or Jazz Fest which successfully bring hundreds of thousands of guests into downtown?
To be honest, I don't think "most" people in Jax care where Jaxtoberfest is located. The mindset in Jax isn't significantly different from the general mindset across the majority of the country. This place is just a much smaller community than most of us believe. This is Dayton, OH with a lot more suburbs and a beach. This isn't meant to be a knock on Jax. It's just the reality of a smaller 200k city, consolidating with its core county.
Quote from: johnnyliar on September 09, 2015, 09:04:54 AM
I've gotten free tickets to Jaxtoberfest the last two years and it was still a ripoff. Almost all of the beer can be bought or had on draft at Beer:30 , Kickbacks, Alewife, etc. There's very few things to do there, and it's usually a scorcher in the middle of a contaminated shipyard field while a shitty cover band plays pop-country tunes. Good riddance.
Agreed on that.
Quote from: johnnyliar on September 09, 2015, 09:04:54 AM
I've gotten free tickets to Jaxtoberfest the last two years and it was still a ripoff. Almost all of the beer can be bought or had on draft at Beer:30 , Kickbacks, Alewife, etc. There's very few things to do there, and it's usually a scorcher in the middle of a contaminated shipyard field while a shitty cover band plays pop-country tunes. Good riddance.
Yeah the Shipyards probably wasn't the best location. I still think Hemming Park, Riverside Park or Memorial Park are better for these things since they are close to where people live. Ok, maybe not Hemming Park but at least it is the center of downtown. They are great for festivals with the shade they provide.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 09, 2015, 09:29:21 AM
To be honest, I don't think "most" people in Jax care where Jaxtoberfest is located. The mindset in Jax isn't significantly different from the general mindset across the majority of the country. This place is just a much smaller community than most of us believe. This is Dayton, OH with a lot more suburbs and a beach. This isn't meant to be a knock on Jax. It's just the reality of a smaller 200k city, consolidating with its core county.
I agree with the comment that most people wouldn't care in most places in America, or anywhere for that matter, people are pretty similar personality and interests-wise no matter where you are in the world from what I've found. But this has nothing to do with Jacksonville being a smaller city. My hometown Kalamazoo, MI was lame as hell when I was younger and people didn't care one way or another about anything like this, that was until they started improving downtown and holding large festivals like this downtown, not at shopping malls. It gave people a different perspective and opinion of their city. Still not the greatest place on earth but that town has seen huge improvements and civic pride as a result. I've lived in Greenville, SC as well . . . . . same thing. So I don't believe it's because Jacksonville is not the size of Chicago or Atlanta, etc. Jacksonville is actually much bigger than those two smaller cities I've mentioned even if you just take the central area, not all of Duval County. I believe the actual city populations of Kalamazoo and Greenville are both around 100k.
Relocating from downtown? SJTC IS the downtown of Jacksonville. It will only continue to grow and grow. Already strong residential is popping up all around it, next will be more office spaces, etc. and it is all organic growth. You can have your dozens and dozens of plans for downtown "revitalization", until it comes about organically, downtown will continue to fester...
I'm sure the event will be a success in its mall parking lot. Then it will get lost in the shuffle like every other similar event before it, and fade away. That's the risk you face when you go that route.
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 10:11:26 AM
Relocating from downtown? SJTC IS the downtown of Jacksonville. It will only continue to grow and grow. Already strong residential is popping up all around it, next will be more office spaces, etc. and it is all organic growth. You can have your dozens and dozens of plans for downtown "revitalization", until it comes about organically, downtown will continue to fester...
SJTC came together "organically?"
Sure.
Quote from: johnnyliar on September 09, 2015, 10:29:19 AM
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 10:11:26 AM
Relocating from downtown? SJTC IS the downtown of Jacksonville. It will only continue to grow and grow. Already strong residential is popping up all around it, next will be more office spaces, etc. and it is all organic growth. You can have your dozens and dozens of plans for downtown "revitalization", until it comes about organically, downtown will continue to fester...
SJTC came together "organically?"
Sure.
Why do you think there has been wave after wave of expansion, and continues to be? Success with the initial investment premise is begetting increased success. It's the exact same dynamic as King Street.
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 10:11:26 AM
Relocating from downtown? SJTC IS the downtown of Jacksonville. It will only continue to grow and grow. Already strong residential is popping up all around it, next will be more office spaces, etc. and it is all organic growth. You can have your dozens and dozens of plans for downtown "revitalization", until it comes about organically, downtown will continue to fester...
Is the growth actually organic if it is growing around a pre-fab, forced growth shopping mall? It's a parasite; just because it is growing doesn't mean it is growth that the city needs. The unfortunate thing is that SJTC is successful and will continue grow, but at what cost to the rest of the city? I know that the majority of Jacksonville is fine with the spread out, car-centric, mid-rise office park, pre-planned neighborhood suburbia that Jacksonville has become, but some of us aren't.
Not that Jaxtoberfest is something spectacular, but this is the kind of bullshit that puts a damper on our downtown.
Yea, that's it. 50 years of downtown failure rest on the developers of SJTC. Wow.........
I don't think it's that big a deal. Downtown can't host everything and you're gonna have events spread throughout the city. it's not like the SJTC folks are gonna sit there and not plan things. Jaxtoberfest isn't some kind of long-standing tradition with a ton of history in downtown. I'd be pissed with Artwalk or Jazzfest going to the burbs.
Quote from: rylo on September 09, 2015, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 10:11:26 AM
Relocating from downtown? SJTC IS the downtown of Jacksonville. It will only continue to grow and grow. Already strong residential is popping up all around it, next will be more office spaces, etc. and it is all organic growth. You can have your dozens and dozens of plans for downtown "revitalization", until it comes about organically, downtown will continue to fester...
Is the growth actually organic if it is growing around a pre-fab, forced growth shopping mall? It's a parasite; just because it is growing doesn't mean it is growth that the city needs. The unfortunate thing is that SJTC is successful and will continue grow, but at what cost to the rest of the city? I know that the majority of Jacksonville is fine with the spread out, car-centric, mid-rise office park, pre-planned neighborhood suburbia that Jacksonville has become, but some of us aren't.
Not that Jaxtoberfest is something spectacular, but this is the kind of bullshit that puts a damper on our downtown.
See - this is the idiotic master plan thinking that retards downtown development. Who are you to know what people want and need? You can't know. You can have a guess and the market will tell you if you are right. SJTC developers (initial phase) saw a gap in the market (upscale, outdoor destination shopping - which was popular all over other places btw) and put up their money and the market proved them right. That's why there have been numerous and continuing add on developments from different investor groups.
Because the entire area is most surely providing what people actually do want, not something that somebody is telling them they really should want. And the more it continues to succeed - the more stark Downtown will continue to become. Unless the entire downtown landlord base wakes up and provides an environment for organic growth, and the freedom to let that go where the market wants, not where some know it alls say it "should" go.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on September 09, 2015, 10:49:22 AM
I don't think it's that big a deal. Downtown can't host everything and you're gonna have events spread throughout the city. it's not like the SJTC folks are gonna sit there and not plan things. Jaxtoberfest isn't some kind of long-standing tradition with a ton of history in downtown. I'd be pissed with Artwalk or Jazzfest going to the burbs.
^ this. And to add to that I'm consistently seeing more and more beer-themed festivals crop up all over the city, in fact there is two at the beach coming up. Bruval and a Beachs Oktoberfest. As craft beer popularity continues to grow I'm sure DT will host more and more events so losing this one doesn't seem like that huge of a deal to me.
Quote from: Dapperdan on September 09, 2015, 08:11:16 AM
Lets just all go to Art Walk instead. They are doing a Oktoberfest type event next month.
Bingo.
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 10:52:58 AM
Because the entire area is most surely providing what people actually do want, not something that somebody is telling them they really should want.
The SJTC is a perfect example of rampant american consumerism. The whole place exists
because people are being told that they want new clothes, brand names, frappachinos, BUY BUY BUY!
Quote from: johnnyliar on September 09, 2015, 11:13:25 AM
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 10:52:58 AM
Because the entire area is most surely providing what people actually do want, not something that somebody is telling them they really should want.
The SJTC is a perfect example of rampant american consumerism. The whole place exists because people are being told that they want new clothes, brand names, frappachinos, BUY BUY BUY!
Naive thinking. So everyone lacks free will but you? How do you do it???
Quote from: johnnyliar on September 09, 2015, 11:13:25 AM
The SJTC is a perfect example of rampant american consumerism. The whole place exists because people are being told that they want new clothes, brand names, frappachinos, BUY BUY BUY!
SHHHHHH!!!! These people are funding my retirement and my credit card rewards with their massive consumer debt!
So who's excited for OneSpark Nocatee?
high temp last year hit 91 during the festival. It will be brutal unless they can find some greenspace.
Quote from: fsquid on September 09, 2015, 12:05:33 PM
high temp last year hit 91 during the festival. It will be brutal unless they can find some greenspace.
Everyone can just duck inside Dillard's!
The bottom line is, it sure will be fun for tens of thousands of people to drink a bunch of beer and then drive around on SJTC property.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2015, 12:11:32 PM
The bottom line is, it sure will be fun for tens of thousands of people to drink a bunch of beer and then drive around on SJTC property.
What did the people do last year? Where did the 50k attendees drive after attending at the Shipyards? Public roads, 95, I-10?
Or did they all come by boat?
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 01:00:03 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2015, 12:11:32 PM
The bottom line is, it sure will be fun for tens of thousands of people to drink a bunch of beer and then drive around on SJTC property.
What did the people do last year? Where did the 50k attendees drive after attending at the Shipyards? Public roads, 95, I-10?
Or did they all come by boat?
I took Uber, if I recall correctly.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2015, 01:02:44 PM
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 01:00:03 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2015, 12:11:32 PM
The bottom line is, it sure will be fun for tens of thousands of people to drink a bunch of beer and then drive around on SJTC property.
What did the people do last year? Where did the 50k attendees drive after attending at the Shipyards? Public roads, 95, I-10?
Or did they all come by boat?
I took Uber, if I recall correctly.
One answer in, 49,999 to go...
Rode my bike! :P
Who gives a rats ass where this lame event is held? JAX is one of the best beer lovers cities in the USA with over a dozen fantastic local breweries. And this event is serving.... none of those beers. They are serving Blue Moon and Sam Adams.
They can move this bullshit event to the moon for all I care.
Quote from: CCMjax on September 08, 2015, 06:20:57 PM
This really blows. Take a great cultural festival and relocate it from downtown to an upscale shopping mall in the suburbs, one of the least cultural things I can think of. They say it is because of the shipyards cleanup going on but this seems like a perfect event to move to Hemming Park if some of the surrounding streets were blocked off, what gives? It says 50,000 went last year so it was a pretty good turn out. I for one will not be attending if they have it at SJTC.
http://jaxtoberfest.com/
Just wondering if moving the event to the "Town Center" might up the vehicular traffic counts and help engineer data needed to support / legitimize the proposed road widening project(S) ?
just a thought
Quote from: CCMjax on September 09, 2015, 10:07:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 09, 2015, 09:29:21 AM
To be honest, I don't think "most" people in Jax care where Jaxtoberfest is located. The mindset in Jax isn't significantly different from the general mindset across the majority of the country. This place is just a much smaller community than most of us believe. This is Dayton, OH with a lot more suburbs and a beach. This isn't meant to be a knock on Jax. It's just the reality of a smaller 200k city, consolidating with its core county.
I agree with the comment that most people wouldn't care in most places in America, or anywhere for that matter, people are pretty similar personality and interests-wise no matter where you are in the world from what I've found. But this has nothing to do with Jacksonville being a smaller city. My hometown Kalamazoo, MI was lame as hell when I was younger and people didn't care one way or another about anything like this, that was until they started improving downtown and holding large festivals like this downtown, not at shopping malls. It gave people a different perspective and opinion of their city. Still not the greatest place on earth but that town has seen huge improvements and civic pride as a result. I've lived in Greenville, SC as well . . . . . same thing. So I don't believe it's because Jacksonville is not the size of Chicago or Atlanta, etc. Jacksonville is actually much bigger than those two smaller cities I've mentioned even if you just take the central area, not all of Duval County. I believe the actual city populations of Kalamazoo and Greenville are both around 100k.
I guess I went about it the wrong way. I don't think it's a big deal that this event is moving to SJTC. I believe, we're making it a bigger deal than it really is because we're so focused on wanting to see DT Jax succeed. We've literally put it in our heads that a strip mall like SJTC actually competes against DT Jax. However, if we look, I'm sure we'll find several examples of private events moving, from some of the most vibrant downtown cores in the country, to other areas of their respective metropolitan areas regardless of city size.
Quote from: coredumped on September 08, 2015, 06:26:29 PM
Upscale shopping mall? The dollar store and target?
Seriously, a terrible location, things like this belong downtown, not in a crappy plaza.
Well, by your definition, there are very few 'upscale malls' with EVERYTHING having to be upscale. Aventura Mall which I consider very upscale has Sears & JCP which I'll put Target over. That Target part of the SJTC is like an outparcel anyway; It probably should have been named something else to differentiate.
I would consider SJTC as pretty upscale. It has a range of shops and the particularly 'upscale' ones are clustered together (more or less). That seems to be the trend these days.
I don't know why so many people hate on the SJTC. It's a good mall and it clearly serves a purpose.
^^^+1000
Fyi: It was moved to SJTC because all of the other viable venues around Downtown were booked. Selling alcohol for-profit greatly limits the possible venues.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 10, 2015, 08:28:37 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 09, 2015, 11:28:43 PM
Quote from: CCMjax on September 09, 2015, 10:07:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 09, 2015, 09:29:21 AM
To be honest, I don't think "most" people in Jax care where Jaxtoberfest is located. The mindset in Jax isn't significantly different from the general mindset across the majority of the country. This place is just a much smaller community than most of us believe. This is Dayton, OH with a lot more suburbs and a beach. This isn't meant to be a knock on Jax. It's just the reality of a smaller 200k city, consolidating with its core county.
I agree with the comment that most people wouldn't care in most places in America, or anywhere for that matter, people are pretty similar personality and interests-wise no matter where you are in the world from what I've found. But this has nothing to do with Jacksonville being a smaller city. My hometown Kalamazoo, MI was lame as hell when I was younger and people didn't care one way or another about anything like this, that was until they started improving downtown and holding large festivals like this downtown, not at shopping malls. It gave people a different perspective and opinion of their city. Still not the greatest place on earth but that town has seen huge improvements and civic pride as a result. I've lived in Greenville, SC as well . . . . . same thing. So I don't believe it's because Jacksonville is not the size of Chicago or Atlanta, etc. Jacksonville is actually much bigger than those two smaller cities I've mentioned even if you just take the central area, not all of Duval County. I believe the actual city populations of Kalamazoo and Greenville are both around 100k.
I guess I went about it the wrong way. I don't think it's a big deal that this event is moving to SJTC. I believe, we're making it a bigger deal than it really is because we're so focused on wanting to see DT Jax succeed. We've literally put it in our heads that a strip mall like SJTC actually competes against DT Jax. However, if we look, I'm sure we'll find several examples of private events moving, from some of the most vibrant downtown cores in the country, to other areas of their respective metropolitan areas regardless of city size.
As soon as major brand stores/restaurants move downtown and all the Mandarin and St. Johns County folks start coming downtown, these same people will bemoan all the newcomers who don't "get" downtown and how this is "their area" and all the fat white jort-wearing church-goers should stay in mandarin.
You know, that other thread popped into my head as well when reading this one. You make a good point.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on September 10, 2015, 08:15:11 AM
Fyi: It was moved to SJTC because all of the other viable venues around Downtown were booked. Selling alcohol for-profit greatly limits the possible venues.
Thanks for the info Hoff, if that is true then the move to SJTC is understandable.
AW - I think the hate on the SJTC (at least for me) is not because it is a mall, it does serve a purpose and I go there myself every once and a while. There is a place and market for malls and every city has them, I'm cool with that. I get frustrated when people try to use it as an example of successful urban development, which it is not at all. It is a successful twist on suburban style mall development in terms of profit for the developers and options provided for the customers only, and people like it because it's nicer and fresher than Avenues. It is kind of nice once you're out of your car and you're right on the main strip but it doesn't really make the area around it nicer, just adds to the traffic counts, like most suburban strip style developments. And it is not a community, it is an outparcel and big box development with an attempt at a faux main street in the middle of it, but it cannot in any way be classified as a real neighborhood. My main beef with relocating a festival to the town center is that I would like to see Jaxtoberfest get better in Jax, and I think locating it in a mall parking lot doesn't really improve the festival. I also think focusing on the TC as the epicenter of the Jacksonville area is a bad thing.
Quote from: CCMjax on September 10, 2015, 08:47:56 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on September 10, 2015, 08:15:11 AM
Fyi: It was moved to SJTC because all of the other viable venues around Downtown were booked. Selling alcohol for-profit greatly limits the possible venues.
Thanks for the info Hoff, if that is true then the move to SJTC is understandable.
AW - I think the hate on the SJTC (at least for me) is not because it is a mall, it does serve a purpose and I go there myself every once and a while. There is a place and market for malls and every city has them, I'm cool with that. I get frustrated when people try to use it as an example of successful urban development, which it is not at all. It is a successful twist on suburban style mall development in terms of profit for the developers and options provided for the customers only, and people like it because it's nicer and fresher than Avenues. It is kind of nice once you're out of your car and you're right on the main strip but it doesn't really make the area around it nicer, just adds to the traffic counts, like most suburban strip style developments. And it is not a community, it is an outparcel and big box development with an attempt at a faux main street in the middle of it, but it cannot in any way be classified as a real neighborhood. My main beef with relocating a festival to the town center is that I would like to see Jaxtoberfest get better in Jax, and I think locating it in a mall parking lot doesn't really improve the festival. I also think focusing on the TC as the epicenter of the Jacksonville area is a bad thing.
I don't disagree with you there. It's a mall. I like it for what it offers. I guess it could function as a local "town centre" but it certainly isn't an example of successful urban development. I'm glad it is doing well - I hope it doesn't fall into disrepair as the other once-successful malls in Jax have done. We'll see.
There's no reason why SJTC can't thrive alongside a successful downtown.
So what is Jaxtoberfest?
A celebration of Fall weather and the art of beer making?
If you're doing this in Jacksonville and not featuring our amazing local breweries, why do it at all?
Quote from: MusicMan on September 10, 2015, 08:55:58 AM
So what is Jaxtoberfest?
A celebration of Fall weather and the art of beer making?
If you're doing this in Jacksonville and not featuring our amazing local breweries, why do it at all?
They seem to be offering a number of German beers that are traditionally sold at Oktoberfest. Well, they're going to have Hacker-Pschorr and Paulaner. Maybe it's more about "Octoberfest" and less about Jacksonville.
I reckon it's just an attempt by someone (brewers, distributors) to make a buck by selling beer to people.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 10, 2015, 09:49:39 AM
As has been stated several times, it isnt being held in a parking lot. It';s being held in a grassy field, several sizes larger than the Shipyards. But keep fucking that chicken, guy. It's fun to circle-jerk about how awful the SJTC is and one-up one another on how much we loooooooooooooove downtown. I love downtown x 1,000,000,0000,000,000, 000. I love downtown so much I took it behind the middle school and got it pregnant. Beat that.
The amount of energy being wasted here, and on facebook and other places, over this festival and it's location is supremely ridiculous.
(http://i.imgur.com/fY5a6B9.jpg)
maybe I'm blind but looking at an overhead picture of that area, where is this alleged grassy field?
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 10, 2015, 09:49:39 AM
Quote from: CCMjax on September 10, 2015, 08:47:56 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on September 10, 2015, 08:15:11 AM
Fyi: It was moved to SJTC because all of the other viable venues around Downtown were booked. Selling alcohol for-profit greatly limits the possible venues.
Thanks for the info Hoff, if that is true then the move to SJTC is understandable.
AW - I think the hate on the SJTC (at least for me) is not because it is a mall, it does serve a purpose and I go there myself every once and a while. There is a place and market for malls and every city has them, I'm cool with that. I get frustrated when people try to use it as an example of successful urban development, which it is not at all. It is a successful twist on suburban style mall development in terms of profit for the developers and options provided for the customers only, and people like it because it's nicer and fresher than Avenues. It is kind of nice once you're out of your car and you're right on the main strip but it doesn't really make the area around it nicer, just adds to the traffic counts, like most suburban strip style developments. And it is not a community, it is an outparcel and big box development with an attempt at a faux main street in the middle of it, but it cannot in any way be classified as a real neighborhood. My main beef with relocating a festival to the town center is that I would like to see Jaxtoberfest get better in Jax, and I think locating it in a mall parking lot doesn't really improve the festival. I also think focusing on the TC as the epicenter of the Jacksonville area is a bad thing.
As has been stated several times, it isnt being held in a parking lot. It';s being held in a grassy field, several sizes larger than the Shipyards. But keep fucking that chicken, guy. It's fun to circle-jerk about how awful the SJTC is and one-up one another on how much we loooooooooooooove downtown. I love downtown x 1,000,000,0000,000,000, 000. I love downtown so much I took it behind the middle school and got it pregnant. Beat that.
The amount of energy being wasted here, and on facebook and other places, over this festival and it's location is supremely ridiculous.
Way to go! Troll on! It's a discussion board to share thoughts, not a council meeting trying to figure out how to solve the city's issues. Your trolling is a waste of time.
Tag your it!
You sure do make a lot of circle jerk references. Do you ever think maybe it's not everyone else who's fixated on circle jerks, maybe it's just you?
Quote from: Tacachale on September 10, 2015, 02:18:50 PM
You sure do make a lot of circle jerk references. Do you ever think maybe it's not everyone else who's fixated on circle jerks, maybe it's just you?
Great minds think alike:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,24503.msg415046.html#msg415046 (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,24503.msg415046.html#msg415046)
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 11, 2015, 08:34:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 10, 2015, 02:18:50 PM
You sure do make a lot of circle jerk references. Do you ever think maybe it's not everyone else who's fixated on circle jerks, maybe it's just you?
Oh, dude, I LOVE the Circle Jerks (Have you HEARD "Wild in the Streets"? God DAMN it smokes!), but I am not sure what that has to do with anything...
I always thought they were overrated - but I was never a huge fan of LA hardcore anyway. Like I never understood Black Flag's appeal.
Quote from: Adam White on September 11, 2015, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 11, 2015, 08:34:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 10, 2015, 02:18:50 PM
You sure do make a lot of circle jerk references. Do you ever think maybe it's not everyone else who's fixated on circle jerks, maybe it's just you?
Oh, dude, I LOVE the Circle Jerks (Have you HEARD "Wild in the Streets"? God DAMN it smokes!), but I am not sure what that has to do with anything...
I always thought they were overrated - but I was never a huge fan of LA hardcore anyway. Like I never understood Black Flag's appeal.
They had some good tunes, but their influence definitely outpaced their talent. I wished more of those musicians had listened to the Minutemen rather than Black Flag and the dozens of other indistinguishable bands.
Wait, what were we talking about?
Quote from: Tacachale on September 11, 2015, 09:55:21 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 11, 2015, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 11, 2015, 08:34:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 10, 2015, 02:18:50 PM
You sure do make a lot of circle jerk references. Do you ever think maybe it's not everyone else who's fixated on circle jerks, maybe it's just you?
Oh, dude, I LOVE the Circle Jerks (Have you HEARD "Wild in the Streets"? God DAMN it smokes!), but I am not sure what that has to do with anything...
I always thought they were overrated - but I was never a huge fan of LA hardcore anyway. Like I never understood Black Flag's appeal.
They had some good tunes, but their influence definitely outpaced their talent. I wished more of those musicians had listened to the Minutemen rather than Black Flag and the dozens of other indistinguishable bands.
Wait, what were we talking about?
Minutemen is pretty intertwined with Black Flag (considering they toured together and recorded music together). The better question is, who was Black Flag's best frontman? My vote is Mike Vallely because he skates... and that pretty much means he is superior to everyone else :)
Quote from: Tacachale on September 11, 2015, 09:55:21 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 11, 2015, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 11, 2015, 08:34:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 10, 2015, 02:18:50 PM
You sure do make a lot of circle jerk references. Do you ever think maybe it's not everyone else who's fixated on circle jerks, maybe it's just you?
Oh, dude, I LOVE the Circle Jerks (Have you HEARD "Wild in the Streets"? God DAMN it smokes!), but I am not sure what that has to do with anything...
I always thought they were overrated - but I was never a huge fan of LA hardcore anyway. Like I never understood Black Flag's appeal.
They had some good tunes, but their influence definitely outpaced their talent. I wished more of those musicians had listened to the Minutemen rather than Black Flag and the dozens of other indistinguishable bands.
Totally agree.
Rollins is my favorite, personally.
Get in the Van is awesome, and his book "Roomanitarian" is really cool as well.
Rollins has always really irked me. So has Ian MacKaye (that's not to say I never listened to Fugazi or anything). I never quite got into hardcore, apart from a bit of Die Kreuzen and maybe early Husker Du or Bad Brains.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 11, 2015, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 11, 2015, 09:55:21 AM
Quote from: Adam White on September 11, 2015, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 11, 2015, 08:34:29 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 10, 2015, 02:18:50 PM
You sure do make a lot of circle jerk references. Do you ever think maybe it's not everyone else who's fixated on circle jerks, maybe it's just you?
Oh, dude, I LOVE the Circle Jerks (Have you HEARD "Wild in the Streets"? God DAMN it smokes!), but I am not sure what that has to do with anything...
I always thought they were overrated - but I was never a huge fan of LA hardcore anyway. Like I never understood Black Flag's appeal.
They had some good tunes, but their influence definitely outpaced their talent. I wished more of those musicians had listened to the Minutemen rather than Black Flag and the dozens of other indistinguishable bands.
Wait, what were we talking about?
Minutemen have their place in history, but give me Black Flag/Minor Threat/ Circle Jerks over them any day of the week.
Give me Bad Religion, or give me death.
Henry Rollins= Guy I wouldn't mind going to Las Vegas with, but would never want in my band.
Ron Reyes= More punk than Dez or Keith Morris.
Dez Cadena= A hero for everyone that has formed a fan club for a band, ever (The guy that runs the Metallica fan club dreams that one day he'll pull a Dez Cadena and get invited to sing for a Metallica Reunion Tour).
None of the aforementioned people have ever been on the cover of Thrasher Magazine (nor have played professional hockey). Everyone is entitled to their opinion... mine just happens to be the correct one because let's face it, skaters rule. Long live Mike Vallely. Carry on :D
Explanation here:
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546118
Sorry if this was already posted
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on September 11, 2015, 11:34:01 AM
As to the real thread, let me say, I am honestly not trolling. I just am super disappointed everyone is going around in circles about how awful SJTC is and how awful this festival is for going there, and it feels like unnecessary hand-wringing and concern-trolling.
Part of it is how the festival broke the news. If they'd said they couldn't get a space downtown from the start, they'd have avoided the bad buzz. Apparently they've known they couldn't use the Shipyards for months.
QuotePart of it is how the festival broke the news. If they'd said they couldn't get a space downtown from the start, they'd have avoided the bad buzz. Apparently they've known they couldn't use the Shipyards for months.
Sounds like they have Mickey Mouse at the head of their PR. What a disaster!