Metro Jacksonville

Just trying to get a feel for interest, and if so to what degree of time commitment, cost, etc.
Also picked a few cities that vary in caliber and distance just to get an idea of what might ultimately be best to target.
Comment away if you have any preferences, thoughts, etc.
We can figure out dates in the future, but I know I can't possibly do this until after the new year.

Anyone interested in doing a RICO Downtown kayak loop in 4.8 miles of the Rivers Edge zone in some of the most restricted Waterways in the state? Seriously.

I am Downtown and why you aren't

Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

I love it Ben! I was hoping you'd throw in your 2 cents. I think it probably makes sense to crawl before we run a marathon (who knows...everybody might hate each other after two days) but I would be very interested in Sydney/Melbourne.

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 09:21:26 AM

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

From what I've read he's absolutely right about Melbourne and maybe speaking with hyperbole about Sydney.

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 09:21:26 AM

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

I reckon Ben knows what he's talking about and I don't think anyone would accuse him of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses! He's a clever guy and he travels A LOT.

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 02:48:53 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 09:21:26 AM

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

I reckon Ben knows what he's talking about and I don't think anyone would accuse him of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses! He's a clever guy and he travels A LOT.

I have a very good & true friend that lives in Manly Australia. And he knows Sydney better then Mr Travel aka Ben Says.

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 04:46:59 PM

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 02:48:53 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 09:21:26 AM

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

I reckon Ben knows what he's talking about and I don't think anyone would accuse him of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses! He's a clever guy and he travels A LOT.

I have a very good & true friend that lives in Manly Australia. And he knows Sydney better then Mr Travel aka Ben Says.

Have you been to Sydney?

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 05:37:37 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 04:46:59 PM

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 02:48:53 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 09:21:26 AM

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

I reckon Ben knows what he's talking about and I don't think anyone would accuse him of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses! He's a clever guy and he travels A LOT.

I have a very good & true friend that lives in Manly Australia. And he knows Sydney better then Mr Travel aka Ben Says.

Have you been to Sydney?

My best friend lives in Manly Australia and works in Sydney and here is what he said. (Ben Says is only half right, the city itself, that is the CBD and surrounding area date from colonial times when there were no cars. Sydney just grew, and grew and grew. However the twentieth century saw town planning and better facilities). So I was half wrong and so was Ben Says. No I haven't been to Sydney. After surviving Six blood clots I wouldn't last on a long plane ride. Unless it was a medical Jet with Doctors watching me or a long cruise.   8)

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 06:27:50 PM

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 05:37:37 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 04:46:59 PM

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 02:48:53 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 09:21:26 AM

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

I reckon Ben knows what he's talking about and I don't think anyone would accuse him of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses! He's a clever guy and he travels A LOT.

I have a very good & true friend that lives in Manly Australia. And he knows Sydney better then Mr Travel aka Ben Says.

Have you been to Sydney?

My best friend lives in Manly Australia and works in Sydney and here is what he said. (Ben Says is only half right, the city itself, that is the CBD and surrounding area date from colonial times when there were no cars. Sydney just grew, and grew and grew. However the twentieth century saw town planning and better facilities). So I was half wrong and so was Ben Says. No I haven't been to Sydney. After surviving Six blood clots I wouldn't last on a long plane ride. Unless it was a medical Jet with Doctors watching me or a long cruise.   8)

So, no.

I'd rather accept the opinion of someone who's been there than someone who has a friend that supposedly says something or other. Sorry.

Edit: it appears Wikipedia doesn't agree with your friend from Manly, either:

Lieutenant William Dawes produced a town plan in 1790 but it was ignored by the colony's leaders. Sydney's layout today reflects this lack of planning. (emphasis added)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Urban_structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Urban_structure)

Quote from: Adam White on August 23, 2015, 03:53:45 AM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 06:27:50 PM

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 05:37:37 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 04:46:59 PM

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 02:48:53 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 09:21:26 AM

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

I reckon Ben knows what he's talking about and I don't think anyone would accuse him of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses! He's a clever guy and he travels A LOT.

I have a very good & true friend that lives in Manly Australia. And he knows Sydney better then Mr Travel aka Ben Says.

Have you been to Sydney?

My best friend lives in Manly Australia and works in Sydney and here is what he said. (Ben Says is only half right, the city itself, that is the CBD and surrounding area date from colonial times when there were no cars. Sydney just grew, and grew and grew. However the twentieth century saw town planning and better facilities). So I was half wrong and so was Ben Says. No I haven't been to Sydney. After surviving Six blood clots I wouldn't last on a long plane ride. Unless it was a medical Jet with Doctors watching me or a long cruise.   8)

So, no.

I'd rather accept the opinion of someone who's been there than someone who has a friend that supposedly says something or other. Sorry.

Edit: it appears Wikipedia doesn't agree with your friend from Manly, either:

Lieutenant William Dawes produced a town plan in 1790 but it was ignored by the colony's leaders. Sydney's layout today reflects this lack of planning. (emphasis added)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Urban_structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Urban_structure)

Whatever My friend JC has a right to his opinion also. And he does live in Manly and he does work in Sydney so go ahead and believe in ben says the travel man & wikipedia that is made of a lot of untrue facts all the time. For my friend JC knows a lot more then YOU about his country & city. So please go there and tell the world what you see or get it from the eye's of a travel roach that is all about selling you a travel program. :)

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 23, 2015, 08:25:29 AM

Quote from: Adam White on August 23, 2015, 03:53:45 AM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 06:27:50 PM

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 05:37:37 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 04:46:59 PM

Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 02:48:53 PM

Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 09:21:26 AM

Quote from: ben says on August 22, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Let me preface this by saying: I'm not kidding.

I'd be interesting in designing and/or leading an international MJ-associated trip.

I think one of the most interesting trip ideas, to explore urban design, would be this: Sydney and Melbourne.

They're both number 1+2 on the 'best cities to live in' polls.

But the coolest part is....Sydney had ZERO urban planning behind it, and is an absolute mess (some streets people can't walk thru, cars have trouble parking, etc).

On the flip side, Melbourne was a city planned on a grid.

THINK ABOUT IT GUYS  ;D

You're so far from the truth about Sydney Australia! When it comes to mass transit and moving people around Sydney they're number 1. Not every city is prefect but since you look through rose colored glasses you don't see very well.  ::)

I reckon Ben knows what he's talking about and I don't think anyone would accuse him of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses! He's a clever guy and he travels A LOT.

I have a very good & true friend that lives in Manly Australia. And he knows Sydney better then Mr Travel aka Ben Says.

Have you been to Sydney?

My best friend lives in Manly Australia and works in Sydney and here is what he said. (Ben Says is only half right, the city itself, that is the CBD and surrounding area date from colonial times when there were no cars. Sydney just grew, and grew and grew. However the twentieth century saw town planning and better facilities). So I was half wrong and so was Ben Says. No I haven't been to Sydney. After surviving Six blood clots I wouldn't last on a long plane ride. Unless it was a medical Jet with Doctors watching me or a long cruise.   8)

So, no.

I'd rather accept the opinion of someone who's been there than someone who has a friend that supposedly says something or other. Sorry.

Edit: it appears Wikipedia doesn't agree with your friend from Manly, either:

Lieutenant William Dawes produced a town plan in 1790 but it was ignored by the colony's leaders. Sydney's layout today reflects this lack of planning. (emphasis added)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Urban_structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney#Urban_structure)

Whatever My friend JC has a right to his opinion also. And he does live in Manly and he does work in Sydney so go ahead and believe in ben says the travel man & wikipedia that is made of a lot of untrue facts all the time. For my friend JC knows a lot more then YOU about his country & city. So please go there and tell the world what you see or get it from the eye's of a travel roach that is all about selling you a travel program. :)

A) I've never said your friend isn't entitled to his opinion.
B) I've never spoken to your friend, so I have no idea what his opinion is.
C) That Wikipedia article has links to sources - so that is likely not made up.
D) You can put all the smileys you want at the end of your posts, but that doesn't mean you're not being really rude.

:)

http://www.aptnsw.org.au/sydtrans.html (http://www.aptnsw.org.au/sydtrans.html)

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/transport-top-issue-for-sydneysiders/story-fn5ftg6s-1226307065151 (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/transport-top-issue-for-sydneysiders/story-fn5ftg6s-1226307065151)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/city-held-back-by-avoid-complaints-at-all-costs-attitude-20100530-wnis.html (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/city-held-back-by-avoid-complaints-at-all-costs-attitude-20100530-wnis.html)

Look at all these Aussie liars - making up stories about Sydney's transport issues. Maybe they've not had the opportunity to chat to your mate in Manly...

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 22, 2015, 12:20:31 AM
Just trying to get a feel for interest, and if so to what degree of time commitment, cost, etc.
Also picked a few cities that vary in caliber and distance just to get an idea of what might ultimately be best to target.
Comment away if you have any preferences, thoughts, etc.
We can figure out dates in the future, but I know I can't possibly do this until after the new year.

Getting back to the original purpose of this thread, I can't do anything for the rest of this year since my schedule is pretty booked up, but I'm open to  doing something in 2016. A trip to a place like Savannah or Charleston can be easily put together over a weekend.  Same goes for places South of us like Miami (only cost $100 for direct flight from JAX to FTL) or Tampa (3-hour drive). Pittsburgh is a pretty interesting place too. It's a great walkable example of a city that's turned it's rust belt economy around. In fact, most of those rust belt cities (ex. Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, etc.) are interesting. What cities have pretty cheap direct flights from Jax? 

I could do an international trip as well, however anything requiring me to take a week off from work is going to take an extra bit of planning and coordination.  I only get 3 weeks of PTO, so I tend to ration those days out around holidays and weekends. Anyway, all that to say, is I'm open to participating.

I think it might be pretty cool. I'd actually say something in the U.S. would be better, since in terms of learning from other cities it's more apples to apples as far as funding sources.

Quote from: thelakelander on August 23, 2015, 09:59:02 AM
What cities have pretty cheap direct flights from Jax? 

Generally it's Atlanta, Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago, Nashville, DC, Baltimore, New York and Boston. These are fairly often available for under $200 rt.

If we include St Aug's airport then we could add Trenton (and Philadelphia via Trenton) to that list. Obviously flying out of Orlando would open up many more possibilities.

Quote from: thelakelander on August 23, 2015, 09:59:02 AM

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 22, 2015, 12:20:31 AM
Just trying to get a feel for interest, and if so to what degree of time commitment, cost, etc.
Also picked a few cities that vary in caliber and distance just to get an idea of what might ultimately be best to target.
Comment away if you have any preferences, thoughts, etc.
We can figure out dates in the future, but I know I can't possibly do this until after the new year.

Getting back to the original purpose of this thread, I can't do anything for the rest of this year since my schedule is pretty booked up, but I'm open to  doing something in 2016. A trip to a place like Savannah or Charleston can be easily put together over a weekend.  Same goes for places South of us like Miami (only cost $100 for direct flight from JAX to FTL) or Tampa (3-hour drive). Pittsburgh is a pretty interesting place too. It's a great walkable example of a city that's turned it's rust belt economy around. In fact, most of those rust belt cities (ex. Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, etc.) are interesting. What cities have pretty cheap direct flights from Jax? 

I could do an international trip as well, however anything requiring me to take a week off from work is going to take an extra bit of planning and coordination.  I only get 3 weeks of PTO, so I tend to ration those days out around holidays and weekends. Anyway, all that to say, is I'm open to participating.

This taken from my Friend who lives in Manly Australia. Taken in isolation, and basing your argument one one instance is easy. But to give Sydney it's due the first duty of the colonial leaders was self sufficiency and the survival of the colony. In 1788 no one could imagine a city of five million people, let alone the growth that will see a city of ten million by 2030! As I said above our CBD is a messy assair compared to boring planned Melbourne, Adelaide or a city like Christchurch in New Zealand, but most Sydneysiders think those cities soulless. As I said above, the twentieth century has seen the town planners arrive, and we are now a planners' paradise. Time will tell how it all works out. Then again Wikipedia is not the best reference in the world is it?

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 23, 2015, 01:42:13 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on August 23, 2015, 09:59:02 AM
What cities have pretty cheap direct flights from Jax? 

Generally it's Atlanta, Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago, Nashville, DC, Baltimore, New York and Boston. These are fairly often available for under $200 rt.

If we include St Aug's airport then we could add Trenton (and Philadelphia via Trenton) to that list. Obviously flying out of Orlando would open up many more possibilities.

Depends on exactly what you want to see, compare or "learn from". Nashville is probably most comparable to Jax on several levels. Historic development pattern, river city, similar scale and density, etc. However, it has a new convention center, a bad example of commuter rail ridership (but good example of building rail on the cheap), a vibrant downtown entertainment district, a better BRT corridor in development, etc.

Baltimore's Inner Harbor is great if the focus is on clustering development around the riverfront and tying in nearby walkable neighborhoods with the core downtown area.

Both Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are great examples of riverfronts being turned around. Especially, if the focus is on stuff like the shipyards and development around stadium districts. Pittsburgh has BRT and LRT and great walkable neighborhoods to learn from. The redevelopment of Cincinnati's Over-The-Rhine, West End and downtown offer valuable lessons as well. However, both of those cities are a hell of a lot denser and walkable than Jax will ever be.

Chicago, DC and Boston are completely different tiers but they have a ton of neighborhoods with things that would be applicable to Riverside, Springfield, Durkeeville, San Marco, Brooklyn, etc.

Out of this list, Atlanta, Charlotte and Fort Lauderdale would be lowest to me. Atlanta and Charlotte are low density cities with no significant bodies of water that their urban cores were built around. Charlotte would be good for evaluating the new rail lines and the TOD around them. However, I consider Uptown very different than DT Jax's Northbank. The Northbank is older and denser than anything Charlotte had historically and its condition is closer to that of a city like a Memphis, Louisville, Birmingham or second tier Midwestern city like Kansas City.

Atlanta and South Florida are different leagues as well. Miami is quickly becoming an international city. The amount of cranes in the sky will depress you about Jax's situation, more than anything else. Atlanta is a big sprawler built around a ton of old goat's paths and trading posts that don't connect. It's also five times our size. However, if the interest is in Atlanta, the development of the Beltline and the neighborhoods surrounding it are definitely worth a visit.

^Yeah, let's get a handful of core people together who are committed to going and we can discuss the direction and make a decision. Then we can open it up to everyone. Every single one of those trips sounds good to me haha

A quick hitter and easy pregame trip could be to check out Orlando for those who haven't been lately.  Although not on a river there is much to learn from Orlando's success in their downtown redevelopment and also neighborhoods such as Winter Park, Thornton Park and the new one Baldwin Park (think Healthy Town but bigger and without the stupid name) just outside of downtown.  The new commuter rail is also worth checking out.  Not sure if I'd be able to make either trip, but thought I'd throw the idea of a close pregame out there.

I'm in for something that can be done over a saturday & sunday in spring of 2016.

Bump for more votes.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 24, 2015, 09:14:43 AM
I'm in for something that can be done over a saturday & sunday in spring of 2016.

Pub Crawl!

We're beginning to plan but cannot see which members voted in the poll. If anyone is seriously interested in joining such a weekend trip, please get in touch with me via PM or response to this thread. Thanks!!

QuoteNashville is probably most comparable to Jax on several levels. Historic development pattern, river city, similar scale and density, etc.

And it is consolidated, so perhaps upon seeing it, the tired lame excuse of 'consolidation killed the core' can finally be put to rest. I sent several days there a few years back and it is an impressive city but yet a good model for JAX to follow.

Also, it is a newer NFL city   

Nashville is definitely an option!

Question for all...would YOU be more inclined to come if:

1) you pay one, all-inclusive price for flights/hotel (no markup...possibly even a slight discount at a group rate)

or

2) if we just provide an itinerary (tour starts at X location in Y city at Z o'clock) and you make all of your own travel arrangements

I'd recommend #2.

#1 is too structured and requires a higher level of organization. #2 gives you flexibility. For example, if you can't make a 8am flight or you have a discount to a certain hotel brand, you still have the ability to put together a travel arrangement plan that works best for you or your preferences.

In my case, I personally prefer to fly-in the night before, get settled, eat dinner on the town, etc., instead of flying in the morning. I have a pretty decent family discount rate with Marriott, so the extra night isn't a major expense for me. This may not be ideal for others, so flexibility is always best, IMO.