I have been doing some reading of what ISIS is doing to Religious Artifacts across Iraq, Syria and other area's they have control of. They what to change History no different then removing the Civil War Flag, Monuments & Names of past Generals on Schools. Like what happen last year at N.B. FORREST high school now called Westside High School. Once we go down this dangerous path it's hard to put a stop to it. The only real difference I see is ISIS is killing more Innocent people.
We started going down the dangerous path of changing names when we renamed Dignan Park to Confedrate Park. That was back in 1914. We changed a lot of street names a century ago as well. Nevertheless, there was a reason N.B. Forrest name was changed. Sometimes you have to correct your initial ill and move on. I assume you're familiar with local story behind the history of the school's name and why it was named what it was at the time? Other than that, there's no real push to change Civil War monuments and names that actually had something to do with Jax.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 08:33:40 PM
We started going down the dangerous path of changing names when we renamed Dignan Park to Confedrate Park. That was back in 1914. We changed a lot of street names a century ago as well. Nevertheless, there was a reason N.B. Forrest name was changed. Sometimes you have to correct your initial ill and move on. I assume you're familiar with local story behind the history of the school's name and why it was named what it was at the time? Other than that, there's no real push to change Civil War monuments and names that actually had something to do with Jax.
Go to New Orleans and church leaders what to remove the Civil War memorials around New Orleans. https://thehayride.com/2015/08/church-leaders/comment-page-1/ N.B. Forrest name was changed because he was a Confederate general and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. But some people believe he had a change of heart down near the end of his life. 20th street here in Jacksonville was changed to MLK Blvd. I still go by 20th street. But I still call the football stadium the Gator Bowl instead of Everbank. ("Sticks and stones may break my bones / But words will never hurt me"). I guess is just pure BS?
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 10:07:08 PM
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
Well MLK wasn't from Jacksonville Florida. But Ray Charles was and no street is named after him in Jacksonville Florida?
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 10:07:08 PM
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
Well MLK wasn't from Jacksonville Florida. But Ray Charles was and no street is named after him in Jacksonville Florida?
Ray Charles was not from Jacksonville. He did live in Jax for a short time after leaving school in St Augustine, I believe. But he was from Georgia, originally.
I agree we should have a Ray Charles street, school or monument. Unlike Forrest he had a real connection with Jacksonville and Florida. But *not* having one doesn't make Forrest any more appropriate. As Lake said, that name was only chosen in the 50s as a swipe against the civil rights movement.
Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 03:16:48 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 10:07:08 PM
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
Well MLK wasn't from Jacksonville Florida. But Ray Charles was and no street is named after him in Jacksonville Florida?
Ray Charles was not from Jacksonville. He did live in Jax for a short time after leaving school in St Augustine, I believe. But he was from Georgia, originally.
OK sorry about that but Bob Hayes was born in Jacksonville and he doesn't have a Street named after him? Yes he has a Sports Complex named after him. But thelakelanders whole point is if something offends local minorities then it must be changed. Which minorities is he talking about because the last time I checked every race is an minority?
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 08:07:07 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 03:16:48 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 10:07:08 PM
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
Well MLK wasn't from Jacksonville Florida. But Ray Charles was and no street is named after him in Jacksonville Florida?
Ray Charles was not from Jacksonville. He did live in Jax for a short time after leaving school in St Augustine, I believe. But he was from Georgia, originally.
OK sorry about that but Bob Hayes was born in Jacksonville and he doesn't have a Street named after him? Yes he has a Sports Complex named after him. But thelakelanders whole point is if something offends local minorities then it must be changed. Which minorities is he talking about because the last time I checked every race is an minority?
He didn't say that, and it's not true anyway.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 22, 2015, 08:18:12 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 08:07:07 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 03:16:48 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 10:07:08 PM
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
Well MLK wasn't from Jacksonville Florida. But Ray Charles was and no street is named after him in Jacksonville Florida?
Ray Charles was not from Jacksonville. He did live in Jax for a short time after leaving school in St Augustine, I believe. But he was from Georgia, originally.
OK sorry about that but Bob Hayes was born in Jacksonville and he doesn't have a Street named after him? Yes he has a Sports Complex named after him. But thelakelanders whole point is if something offends local minorities then it must be changed. Which minorities is he talking about because the last time I checked every race is an minority?
He didn't say that, and it's not true anyway.
Reply #3 from thelakelander ( We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities.) How I'm I to read this Tacachale? The only reason people want to be masters of the future is to change the past."
― Milan Kundera
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 08:30:18 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 22, 2015, 08:18:12 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 08:07:07 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 03:16:48 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 10:07:08 PM
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
Well MLK wasn't from Jacksonville Florida. But Ray Charles was and no street is named after him in Jacksonville Florida?
Ray Charles was not from Jacksonville. He did live in Jax for a short time after leaving school in St Augustine, I believe. But he was from Georgia, originally.
OK sorry about that but Bob Hayes was born in Jacksonville and he doesn't have a Street named after him? Yes he has a Sports Complex named after him. But thelakelanders whole point is if something offends local minorities then it must be changed. Which minorities is he talking about because the last time I checked every race is an minority?
He didn't say that, and it's not true anyway.
Reply #3 from thelakelander ( We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities.) How I'm I to read this Tacachale? The only reason people want to be masters of the future is to change the past."
― Milan Kundera
Just as it says: that the name was chosen by white authorities as a swipe against African-American civil rights, and now we've corrected it.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 22, 2015, 08:36:47 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 08:30:18 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 22, 2015, 08:18:12 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 08:07:07 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 22, 2015, 03:16:48 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 10:07:08 PM
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
Well MLK wasn't from Jacksonville Florida. But Ray Charles was and no street is named after him in Jacksonville Florida?
Ray Charles was not from Jacksonville. He did live in Jax for a short time after leaving school in St Augustine, I believe. But he was from Georgia, originally.
OK sorry about that but Bob Hayes was born in Jacksonville and he doesn't have a Street named after him? Yes he has a Sports Complex named after him. But thelakelanders whole point is if something offends local minorities then it must be changed. Which minorities is he talking about because the last time I checked every race is an minority?
He didn't say that, and it's not true anyway.
Reply #3 from thelakelander ( We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities.) How I'm I to read this Tacachale? The only reason people want to be masters of the future is to change the past."
― Milan Kundera
Just as it says: that the name was chosen by white authorities as a swipe against African-American civil rights, and now we've corrected it.
OK this is your take on what he said. But has race relations gotten better of worst in Jacksonville Tacachale. Do we change the other school names like Robert E Lee High school since 80%+ of the students are black. And the fact that Robert E Lee wasn't born in Jacksonville Florida? He was Born on January 19, 1807 in Stratford, Virginia.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 22, 2015, 08:03:10 AM
I agree we should have a Ray Charles street, school or monument. Unlike Forrest he had a real connection with Jacksonville and Florida. But *not* having one doesn't make Forrest any more appropriate. As Lake said, that name was only chosen in the 50s as a swipe against the civil rights movement.
I agree - Ray Charles has a definite connection to the city (and to the area) and it seems like we're really missing a trick by not a) recognizing him in that way and b) exploiting it (which is crass, but not unreasonable).
Quote from: thelakelander on August 21, 2015, 10:07:08 PM
NB Forrest wasn't named in honor of the KKK guy. He never stepped foot in Jax or had anything to do with our city. The name was given to the school during the height of the Civil Rights Era to show Jax's resistance towards integration. We moved on by correcting a blatant ill will towards local minorities. With that said, there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax.
"there's no push to change anything Confederate or Union related to Jax." This is pure Bull and you know it!
Is there is a movement to rename the streets of Brooklyn, remove the monument in Hemming or changing Confederate Park's name? If so, I certainly haven't seen it. Seems like everyone in Jax has moved from the NB Forrest discussion except you.
Not sure if removing confederate stuff is anything like ISIS but the KKK and Confederacy were pretty similar to ISIS themselves. Racial purity, religious fanaticism and brutal violence are all the same tenants of these groups. So why anyone wants to romanticize and honor them is beyond me anyways. I am all for preserving history but if some people don't want confederate monuments, symbols or names in their PUBLIC parks and institutions they are totally within their right to express that view. Actually suppressing those people's voices or concerns is in itself more ISIS like than just starting the conversation about if these monuments are relevant or wanted in 21st century America. I personally think it is an insane leap to suggest the movement in the US is anything like the brutal destruction of ISIS and actually shows how little you probably know about the group.
Quote from: UNFurbanist on August 22, 2015, 11:35:31 AM
Not sure if removing confederate stuff is anything like ISIS but the KKK and Confederacy were pretty similar to ISIS themselves. Racial purity, religious fanaticism and brutal violence are all the same tenants of these groups. So why anyone wants to romanticize and honor them is beyond me anyways. I am all for preserving history but if some people don't want confederate monuments, symbols or names in their PUBLIC parks and institutions they are totally within their right to express that view. Actually suppressing those people's voices or concerns is in itself more ISIS like than just starting the conversation about if these monuments are relevant or wanted in 21st century America. I personally think it is an insane leap to suggest the movement in the US is anything like the brutal destruction of ISIS and actually shows how little you probably know about the group.
Here is what I said (I have been doing some reading of what ISIS is doing to Religious Artifacts across Iraq, Syria and other area's they have control of. They what to change History no different then removing the Civil War Flag, Monuments & Names of past Generals on Schools. Like what happen last year at N.B. FORREST high school now called Westside High School. Once we go down this dangerous path it's hard to put a stop to it. The only real difference I see is ISIS is killing more Innocent people. So unfurbanist I was talking about how ISIS is changing history. A lot like the people that what the Civil War Flag removed & Monuments changing school names. Believing that by doing this race relations will be so much better. I also said "The only real difference I see is ISIS is killing more Innocent people.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 22, 2015, 11:03:57 AM
Is there is a movement to rename the streets of Brooklyn, remove the monument in Hemming or changing Confederate Park's name? If so, I certainly haven't seen it. Seems like everyone in Jax has moved from the NB Forrest discussion except you.
The circle of friends you hang with have moved on but a lot of people still believe it was stupid to change the name. I know you look forward to some other outsider to get signatures to have Robert E Lee name changed etc etc. ::)
I actually have never given it any thought. To be honest, I don't spend much time worrying about a war that happened 150 years ago. Sorry.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 05:18:09 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on August 22, 2015, 11:35:31 AM
Not sure if removing confederate stuff is anything like ISIS but the KKK and Confederacy were pretty similar to ISIS themselves. Racial purity, religious fanaticism and brutal violence are all the same tenants of these groups. So why anyone wants to romanticize and honor them is beyond me anyways. I am all for preserving history but if some people don't want confederate monuments, symbols or names in their PUBLIC parks and institutions they are totally within their right to express that view. Actually suppressing those people's voices or concerns is in itself more ISIS like than just starting the conversation about if these monuments are relevant or wanted in 21st century America. I personally think it is an insane leap to suggest the movement in the US is anything like the brutal destruction of ISIS and actually shows how little you probably know about the group.
Here is what I said (I have been doing some reading of what ISIS is doing to Religious Artifacts across Iraq, Syria and other area's they have control of. They what to change History no different then removing the Civil War Flag, Monuments & Names of past Generals on Schools. Like what happen last year at N.B. FORREST high school now called Westside High School. Once we go down this dangerous path it's hard to put a stop to it. The only real difference I see is ISIS is killing more Innocent people. So unfurbanist I was talking about how ISIS is changing history. A lot like the people that what the Civil War Flag removed & Monuments changing school names. Believing that by doing this race relations will be so much better. I also said "The only real difference I see is ISIS is killing more Innocent people.
So in other words, they're not at all similar. Thanks for clarifying.
Poor Peter Dignan. If he were alive today, I wonder what he'd have to say about us going down this dangerous path of name changing?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/515923020_aTJC9-M.jpg)
Quote from: Tacachale on August 22, 2015, 06:20:40 PM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 05:18:09 PM
Quote from: UNFurbanist on August 22, 2015, 11:35:31 AM
Not sure if removing confederate stuff is anything like ISIS but the KKK and Confederacy were pretty similar to ISIS themselves. Racial purity, religious fanaticism and brutal violence are all the same tenants of these groups. So why anyone wants to romanticize and honor them is beyond me anyways. I am all for preserving history but if some people don't want confederate monuments, symbols or names in their PUBLIC parks and institutions they are totally within their right to express that view. Actually suppressing those people's voices or concerns is in itself more ISIS like than just starting the conversation about if these monuments are relevant or wanted in 21st century America. I personally think it is an insane leap to suggest the movement in the US is anything like the brutal destruction of ISIS and actually shows how little you probably know about the group.
Here is what I said (I have been doing some reading of what ISIS is doing to Religious Artifacts across Iraq, Syria and other area's they have control of. They what to change History no different then removing the Civil War Flag, Monuments & Names of past Generals on Schools. Like what happen last year at N.B. FORREST high school now called Westside High School. Once we go down this dangerous path it's hard to put a stop to it. The only real difference I see is ISIS is killing more Innocent people. So unfurbanist I was talking about how ISIS is changing history. A lot like the people that what the Civil War Flag removed & Monuments changing school names. Believing that by doing this race relations will be so much better. I also said "The only real difference I see is ISIS is killing more Innocent people.
So in other words, they're not at all similar. Thanks for clarifying.
They are similar in the fact that ISIS believes if you destroy religious artifacts that this will change history. And people who want to change the name of schools, remove monuments, and remove Confederate Flags so we can all feel better about each other is pure BS! Thelakelander feels since the whites in 1959 changed the name to N.B. Forrest just to upset the Black American's. And it has nothing to do with the fact N.B. Forrest was a grand wizard of the KKK who is lake trying to fool?
Quote from: thelakelander on August 22, 2015, 06:11:00 PM
I actually have never given it any thought. To be honest, I don't spend much time worrying about a war that happened 150 years ago. Sorry.
You can say this online but if i was in your circle of friends I bet you would sing another tune?
You really don't know my circle of friends then. We're talking football right now. Civil War stuff gets just as much play as the French and Indian War does. Crickets....
Quote from: thelakelander on August 22, 2015, 06:34:41 PM
Poor Peter Dignan. If he were alive today, I wonder what he'd have to say about us going down this dangerous path of name changing?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/515923020_aTJC9-M.jpg)
Shouldn't a lot of Southern's feel great about their Southern History. Must everything be so P.C.
I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that Confederate Veterans are considered as American Veterans under law. So while I do agree that it is past time to stop honoring the Confederacy as a whole and the removal of a number of statues/memorials is acceptable and past due, we need to be careful when it comes to Confederate Veterans.
The destruction of historical sites by ISIS, as well as other radical Muslim factions, has more to do with their beliefs about not allowing idols and such, than destroying history itself.
Changing names of schools and buildings to be more sensitive about who or what we revere is an entirely different thing.
Quote from: Spitfire on August 22, 2015, 10:25:54 PM
I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that Confederate Veterans are considered as American Veterans under law. So while I do agree that it is past time to stop honoring the Confederacy as a whole and the removal of a number of statues/memorials is acceptable and past due, we need to be careful when it comes to Confederate Veterans.
So the Men & women that died in the civil war should we dig up their graves? The federal government has said they will not put Confederate Flags on their graves anymore in national parks. Which I find hard to swallow. Well i can't put a lot of flags on the many graves here in North Florida but I will say a prayer for the fallen. And make sure none of the Confederate graves have been mistreated.
Quote from: AKIRA on August 22, 2015, 10:34:24 PM
The destruction of historical sites by ISIS, as well as other radical Muslim factions, has more to do with their beliefs about not allowing idols and such, then destroying history itself.
Changing names of schools and buildings to be more sensitive about who or what we revere is an entirely different thing.
So Akira how do you feel about Confederate monuments & Flags being removed. Is this not changing history. Do the Yankees feel they have won the war once gain 150 years later. By the removal of statues etc etc. Just like my favorite quote says "People are always shouting they want to create a better future. It's not true. The future is an apathetic void of no interest to anyone. The past is full of life, eager to irritate us, provoke and insult us, tempt us to destroy or repaint it. The only reason people want to be masters of the future is to change the past."
― Milan Kundera
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 21, 2015, 09:58:20 PM
N.B. Forrest name was changed because he was a Confederate general and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. But some people believe he had a change of heart down near the end of his life.
Fuck that.
NBF was a brutal slave trader, Grand Wizard of the Klan, and personally responsible for one of the worst war crimes in American military history. Hundreds of black soldiers gutted with bayonets after surrendering and throwing down their weapons. Historians write, "Fort Pillow was simply an orgy of death, a mass lynching to satisfy the basest of conduct – intentional murder – for the vilest of reasons – racism and personal enmity."
Seriously, get the hell out with the "change of heart" bullshit.
Lifelong racist killers don't get to have changes of heart, and there's no universe where this guy should ever have anything named in his honor.
This particular instance wasn't a case of changing history, but of overturning a gravely serious wrong.
If you're that concerned about it, name one of your cats "Nathan Bedford" and call it a day.
But don't act like the PC police are being overly sensitive for not wanting impressionable young black Americans to go to a school named after a GRAND WIZARD OF THE KLAN.
The quote you are using has nothing to do with this circumstance, as there is no effort to destroy or repaint the past. If anything, the prime example of changing the name of Forrest H.S. is more a result of considering the full weight of the past. Initialing naming the school after Forrest is a better example of repainting the past, when you consider naming a school after a misspent life.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 10:43:01 PM
Quote from: Spitfire on August 22, 2015, 10:25:54 PM
I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that Confederate Veterans are considered as American Veterans under law. So while I do agree that it is past time to stop honoring the Confederacy as a whole and the removal of a number of statues/memorials is acceptable and past due, we need to be careful when it comes to Confederate Veterans.
So the Men & women that died in the civil war should we dig up their graves? The federal government has said they will not put Confederate Flags on their graves anymore in national parks. Which I find hard to swallow. Well i can't put a lot of flags on the many graves here in North Florida but I will say a prayer for the fallen. And make sure none of the Confederate graves have been mistreated.
Who said anything about digging up their graves? Are you referring to what's going on with Nathan Forrest? In that situation, he and his wife were dug up from their initial resting place and put to where they are now in the early 1900s. The only thing I would support in that case is that he and his wife are moved back to their original resting places.
Why is it hard to swallow that the Federal Government refuses to glorify anything to do with the Confederacy? As a Veteran, I am 100% behind that decision. There is absolutely NO REASON why a Confederate flag of ANY kind should be flying on government lands.
I do concur with you that I hope that the defacement that has occurred is just to memorials and not to the graves of the fallen.
Quote from: Spitfire on August 23, 2015, 01:15:22 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 22, 2015, 10:43:01 PM
Quote from: Spitfire on August 22, 2015, 10:25:54 PM
I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that Confederate Veterans are considered as American Veterans under law. So while I do agree that it is past time to stop honoring the Confederacy as a whole and the removal of a number of statues/memorials is acceptable and past due, we need to be careful when it comes to Confederate Veterans.
So the Men & women that died in the civil war should we dig up their graves? The federal government has said they will not put Confederate Flags on their graves anymore in national parks. Which I find hard to swallow. Well i can't put a lot of flags on the many graves here in North Florida but I will say a prayer for the fallen. And make sure none of the Confederate graves have been mistreated.
Who said anything about digging up their graves? Are you referring to what's going on with Nathan Forrest? In that situation, he and his wife were dug up from their initial resting place and put to where they are now in the early 1900s. The only thing I would support in that case is that he and his wife are moved back to their original resting places.
Why is it hard to swallow that the Federal Government refuses to glorify anything to do with the Confederacy? As a Veteran, I am 100% behind that decision. There is absolutely NO REASON why a Confederate flag of ANY kind should be flying on government lands.
I do concur with you that I hope that the defacement that has occurred is just to memorials and not to the graves of the fallen.
So Spitfire why did it take until 2015 for the Confederate Flags to come off federal government land. All of this came to a head because nine innocent people were killed in a church. It took the federal government 150 after the Civil war to remove the Confederate Flags. :o No one should ever go to a cemetery and damage any grave....... But I have seen headstones knocked over and fingers broken from statues and even heads remove. See as a photographer I love going to cemeteries around the United States of America. besides most of us will end up in one someday.
Quote from: KenFSU on August 22, 2015, 11:45:14 PM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 21, 2015, 09:58:20 PM
N.B. Forrest name was changed because he was a Confederate general and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. But some people believe he had a change of heart down near the end of his life.
Fuck that.
NBF was a brutal slave trader, Grand Wizard of the Klan, and personally responsible for one of the worst war crimes in American military history. Hundreds of black soldiers gutted with bayonets after surrendering and throwing down their weapons. Historians write, "Fort Pillow was simply an orgy of death, a mass lynching to satisfy the basest of conduct – intentional murder – for the vilest of reasons – racism and personal enmity."
Seriously, get the hell out with the "change of heart" bullshit.
Lifelong racist killers don't get to have changes of heart, and there's no universe where this guy should ever have anything named in his honor.
This particular instance wasn't a case of changing history, but of overturning a gravely serious wrong.
If you're that concerned about it, name one of your cats "Nathan Bedford" and call it a day.
But don't act like the PC police are being overly sensitive for not wanting impressionable young black Americans to go to a school named after a GRAND WIZARD OF THE KLAN.
So who's next Robert E Lee he owned slaves. So did George Washington so if you carry any one dollar bills in your purse or wallet you should remove them. Where does this end, when all the so called wrongs are forgive. It was wrong to in slave people but during these times it was normal practice. This part of history you can't just wish Never Happen. SO KENFSU WHEN DOES IT END! And My cat is named Snowball he is a pain in the butt Snowshoe that wakes me up too early most mornings.
No one is trying to change the name of the Hart Bridge, from honoring the city's founder, because he owned slaves. No one really cares about NB Forrest here in Jax either. An obviously racially motivated ill will from the Civil Rights era was corrected (renaming NB Forrest) and this community has moved on to bigger and better things.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 23, 2015, 09:47:26 AM
No one is trying to change the name of the Hart Bridge, from honoring the city's founder, because he owned slaves. No one really cares about NB Forrest here in Jax either. An obviously racially motivated ill will from the Civil Rights era was corrected (renaming NB Forrest) and this community has moved on to bigger and better things.
thelakelander put whatever spin you want to on what you believe as will I. :)
What most know as the Confederate flag was really a battle flag and I suspect the vast majority of the angst over it stems not from the War Between the States but from what that particular flag has been used to stand for since. Which is of course that idea of white supremacy and that the enslavement of people was/ is ever justified in any way.
The folks put in charge of putting this country back together by President Lincoln had a plan to unite the country and it included such things as land for the freed slaves, honoring the confederate dead equally with the fallen northern solders, allowing the South to take pride in the valor shown by it's solders and it's leaders and doing their best to create a South equal to the North in all ways while creating a country in which freed slave and white privilege had equal footing. While we will never know if that idea would/ could ever work in that time period, the assassination of Lincoln insured that the country would go backwards rather than forward and the South was taken advantage of at every turn. Which more than likely created the atmosphere of Confederate pride we still sometimes see today.
Perhaps the answer today is to put both flags, the current US one (much different than the one used back then) and the real confederate flag, on the fallen confederate solders. To allow some mention without criticism of the Confederate dead and leadership, like Robert E Lee, who served with honor - which also perhaps means we should not use some Northern leaders names as they often did not serve with honor - in other words, treat the Confederate solders as the equals to the fallen US solders everywhere. We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought. What we honor when we honor the fallen in war is the individual sacrifice, made because they believed it to be their duty and honor to do so.
Quote from: strider on August 23, 2015, 10:23:59 AM
What most know as the Confederate flag was really a battle flag and I suspect the vast majority of the angst over it stems not from the War Between the States but from what that particular flag has been used to stand for since. Which is of course that idea of white supremacy and that the enslavement of people was/ is ever justified in any way.
The folks put in charge of putting this country back together by President Lincoln had a plan to unite the country and it included such things as land for the freed slaves, honoring the confederate dead equally with the fallen northern solders, allowing the South to take pride in the valor shown by it's solders and it's leaders and doing their best to create a South equal to the North in all ways while creating a country in which freed slave and white privilege had equal footing. While we will never know if that idea would/ could ever work in that time period, the assassination of Lincoln insured that the country would go backwards rather than forward and the South was taken advantage of at every turn. Which more than likely created the atmosphere of Confederate pride we still sometimes see today.
Perhaps the answer today is to put both flags, the current US one (much different than the one used back then) and the real confederate flag, on the fallen confederate solders. To allow some mention without criticism of the Confederate dead and leadership, like Robert E Lee, who served with honor - which also perhaps means we should not use some Northern leaders names as they often did not serve with honor - in other words, treat the Confederate solders as the equals to the fallen US solders everywhere. We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought. What we honor when we honor the fallen in war is the individual sacrifice, made because they believed it to be their duty and honor to do so.
Thank you for this well thought out comment.
"We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought." -Strider
To be historically fair, we can, according to the Nuremberg trials.
Quote from: AKIRA on August 23, 2015, 01:07:21 PM
"We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought." -Strider
To be historically fair, we can, according to the Nuremberg trials.
The full "quote": We can't judge the fallen for who they followed and where they fought. What we honor when we honor the fallen in war is the individual sacrifice, made because they believed it to be their duty and honor to do so.
While there are indeed exceptions, the fallen solders who followed their leaders were not the ones Nuremberg was really all about. It was far more about the leaders. While some solders, like the prison guards that liked to torture, were guilty of war crimes, the vast majority of the solders in any conflict were doing nothing but their duty. Sometimes they didn't like it but they did it anyway. Sometimes they ended up on the wrong side in history, but that should not lesson their sacrifice. My Father was a prisoner of war and liked his enemies, the Germans. Because the vast majority of those he came in contact with had honor. Because we won, should that lesson the average German solder's sacrifice? My Father would say no. The leadership that brought us to that war would be a different story and should and were held accountable.
I know that some to this day hate the Germans or hate the Japanese, as an example. And yet, what good is that? How does that help anyone at all? They were solders. If there were crimes against humanity, prove it and make those guilty pay. Holding every solder accountable for what amounts to the bad actions of the few helps no one. And to be honest, the only reason an equal number of the "good guys" were not found guilty of equal or worse crimes against humanity is that the "good guys" won. Should we then not honor any of the fallen?
I have had the privilege of knowing a few true heroes. What I learned from them is simple. None of them hated their enemies. Quite the opposite, they respected them. And none of them chose to be that hero. The true heroes of any war are often the first to forgive their enemies and to honor the fallen on both sides.
From what I have read and been told, that is true of any war.
In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra (http://time.com/4007552/isis-palmyra-baalshamin-temple/), I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.
Quote from: Spitfire on August 24, 2015, 07:54:02 AM
In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra (http://time.com/4007552/isis-palmyra-baalshamin-temple/), I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.
Any change to History is wrong!
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2015, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: Spitfire on August 24, 2015, 07:54:02 AM
In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra (http://time.com/4007552/isis-palmyra-baalshamin-temple/), I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.
you can't. Its just dumb.
I agree. Because the goal is not to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. No one is trying to change history.
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 08:36:01 AM
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2015, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: Spitfire on August 24, 2015, 07:54:02 AM
In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra (http://time.com/4007552/isis-palmyra-baalshamin-temple/), I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.
you can't. Its just dumb.
So removing monuments is not changing history. Removing the Confederate Flags from all National parks is truly dumb. The different races can have their Heritage but the Southerns can't 150 years later because we lost? BS! Why don't you go to the Southern Heritage Festival The Farm OffRoad Park - 284 Croxton Cross Road Smithville, Ga 31787
Aug. 28th - 30th If You Have Had Enough of them trying to erase our southern heritage, stripp us of our rights, and the way are government is being run - Come on out and let your voice be heard, and by all means Fly Your Flags both Ole Glory & The Confederate Flags !! Join us for a fun filled weekend of Southern Hospitality ( Heritage Not Hate ),..We will have Speakers from The League Of The South, Voice Of The Patriots, & Sons Of The Confederacy. We will also have a Saturday afternoon Flag Ride from the festival to a nearby historical confederate site and back, Live Music, Late Night Party and dancing with D N D "s very own DJ's - Rob & Charles, a spot for mud trucks to bogg we will have plenty of room and miles of trails for ATV's and Golf Carts, Primitive Camping for RV's & Tents. BBQ Competition, Corn Hole Competition, and all kind of fun events, food venders will be on site. Gates open at 5pm Thursday August 27th for those who would like to arrive early to set you RV's / campsites up. $30 for adults children 12 & under free this covers you for the entire weekend. And maybe you may learn something how Real Southern's feel. :)
I agree. Because the goal is not to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. No one is trying to change history.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on August 24, 2015, 09:10:12 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 21, 2015, 06:20:44 PM
They what to change History no different then removing the Civil War Flag, Monuments & Names of past Generals on Schools.
No, see, that's the thing. It's completely different and this is either a great trolling attempt or literally one of the dumbest things I have ever read.
I'm not a troll and we each have an Opinion. You my not agree with mine. We are taught to think not just take what Stephen Dare or others believe is the truth?
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 09:33:02 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 08:36:01 AM
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2015, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: Spitfire on August 24, 2015, 07:54:02 AM
In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra (http://time.com/4007552/isis-palmyra-baalshamin-temple/), I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.
you can't. Its just dumb.
So removing monuments is not changing history. Removing the Confederate Flags from all National parks is truly dumb. The different races can have their Heritage but the Southerns can't 150 years later because we lost? BS! Why don't you go to the Southern Heritage Festival The Farm OffRoad Park - 284 Croxton Cross Road Smithville, Ga 31787
Aug. 28th - 30th If You Have Had Enough of them trying to erase our southern heritage, stripp us of our rights, and the way are government is being run - Come on out and let your voice be heard, and by all means Fly Your Flags both Ole Glory & The Confederate Flags !! Join us for a fun filled weekend of Southern Hospitality ( Heritage Not Hate ),..We will have Speakers from The League Of The South, Voice Of The Patriots, & Sons Of The Confederacy. We will also have a Saturday afternoon Flag Ride from the festival to a nearby historical confederate site and back, Live Music, Late Night Party and dancing with D N D "s very own DJ's - Rob & Charles, a spot for mud trucks to bogg we will have plenty of room and miles of trails for ATV's and Golf Carts, Primitive Camping for RV's & Tents. BBQ Competition, Corn Hole Competition, and all kind of fun events, food venders will be on site. Gates open at 5pm Thursday August 27th for those who would like to arrive early to set you RV's / campsites up. $30 for adults children 12 & under free this covers you for the entire weekend. And maybe you may learn something how Real Southern's feel. :)
I agree. Because the goal is not to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. No one is trying to change history.
The League of the South is a hate group. So much for "heritage and not hate."
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/league-south (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/league-south)
(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/a7/67/a767cd0889664ad3172fcde1aef2af3e.jpg?itok=yq1weyU1)
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 09:46:44 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 09:33:02 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 08:36:01 AM
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2015, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: Spitfire on August 24, 2015, 07:54:02 AM
In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra (http://time.com/4007552/isis-palmyra-baalshamin-temple/), I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.
you can't. Its just dumb.
So removing monuments is not changing history. Removing the Confederate Flags from all National parks is truly dumb. The different races can have their Heritage but the Southerns can't 150 years later because we lost? BS! Why don't you go to the Southern Heritage Festival The Farm OffRoad Park - 284 Croxton Cross Road Smithville, Ga 31787
Aug. 28th - 30th If You Have Had Enough of them trying to erase our southern heritage, stripp us of our rights, and the way are government is being run - Come on out and let your voice be heard, and by all means Fly Your Flags both Ole Glory & The Confederate Flags !! Join us for a fun filled weekend of Southern Hospitality ( Heritage Not Hate ),..We will have Speakers from The League Of The South, Voice Of The Patriots, & Sons Of The Confederacy. We will also have a Saturday afternoon Flag Ride from the festival to a nearby historical confederate site and back, Live Music, Late Night Party and dancing with D N D "s very own DJ's - Rob & Charles, a spot for mud trucks to bogg we will have plenty of room and miles of trails for ATV's and Golf Carts, Primitive Camping for RV's & Tents. BBQ Competition, Corn Hole Competition, and all kind of fun events, food venders will be on site. Gates open at 5pm Thursday August 27th for those who would like to arrive early to set you RV's / campsites up. $30 for adults children 12 & under free this covers you for the entire weekend. And maybe you may learn something how Real Southern's feel. :)
I agree. Because the goal is not to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. No one is trying to change history.
The League of the South is a hate group. So much for "heritage and not hate."
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/league-south (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/league-south)
Freedom of Speech for all Adam White.
http://www.examiner.com/article/confederate-symbols-heritage-not-hate
In closing, Confederate symbols reflect Southern heritage and serve to honor the brave soldiers that fought for what they believed was right. Regrettably, I must admit slavery was a component but human bondage was also an accepted practice in the United States until 1865 when the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution was ratified. It is estimated that around 100,000 people were not freed until the Amendment went into effect on December 18. To assume that both of these countries' symbols represent hate and racism because of this is an illogical conclusion.
So, while American symbols at different times in our history represented a country that permitted human bondage, performed genocide, unlawfully imprisoned thousands and sanctioned sexist policies, nobody ever suggests that we should hate them like some do with Confederate symbols. Instead they are passionately embraced by most citizens as symbols of American culture and heritage in the same way that Confederate symbols should be allowed to be embraced as symbols of Southern culture and heritage and not just slavery.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 09:51:51 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 09:46:44 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 09:33:02 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 08:36:01 AM
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2015, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: Spitfire on August 24, 2015, 07:54:02 AM
In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra (http://time.com/4007552/isis-palmyra-baalshamin-temple/), I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.
you can't. Its just dumb.
So removing monuments is not changing history. Removing the Confederate Flags from all National parks is truly dumb. The different races can have their Heritage but the Southerns can't 150 years later because we lost? BS! Why don't you go to the Southern Heritage Festival The Farm OffRoad Park - 284 Croxton Cross Road Smithville, Ga 31787
Aug. 28th - 30th If You Have Had Enough of them trying to erase our southern heritage, stripp us of our rights, and the way are government is being run - Come on out and let your voice be heard, and by all means Fly Your Flags both Ole Glory & The Confederate Flags !! Join us for a fun filled weekend of Southern Hospitality ( Heritage Not Hate ),..We will have Speakers from The League Of The South, Voice Of The Patriots, & Sons Of The Confederacy. We will also have a Saturday afternoon Flag Ride from the festival to a nearby historical confederate site and back, Live Music, Late Night Party and dancing with D N D "s very own DJ's - Rob & Charles, a spot for mud trucks to bogg we will have plenty of room and miles of trails for ATV's and Golf Carts, Primitive Camping for RV's & Tents. BBQ Competition, Corn Hole Competition, and all kind of fun events, food venders will be on site. Gates open at 5pm Thursday August 27th for those who would like to arrive early to set you RV's / campsites up. $30 for adults children 12 & under free this covers you for the entire weekend. And maybe you may learn something how Real Southern's feel. :)
I agree. Because the goal is not to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. No one is trying to change history.
The League of the South is a hate group. So much for "heritage and not hate."
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/league-south (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/league-south)
Freedom of Speech for all Adam White.
You're starting to sound like a broken record. Having a difference of opinion with someone is not saying that person doesn't have a right to an opinion. And I don't know where you are getting that I am saying the League of the South or anyone else isn't entitled to an opinion.
I am simply responding to your post - it appears to be a repost - where the author states the following:
Join us for a fun filled weekend of Southern Hospitality ( Heritage Not Hate ),..We will have Speakers from The League Of The South, Voice Of The Patriots, & Sons Of The Confederacy. So they are saying their event is about "heritage not hate" yet they are advertising that the event will have speakers from a known hate group.
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 09:58:34 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 09:51:51 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 09:46:44 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 09:33:02 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 08:36:01 AM
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2015, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: Spitfire on August 24, 2015, 07:54:02 AM
In relation to this, ISIS Said to Destroy Ancient Temple in Palmyra (http://time.com/4007552/isis-palmyra-baalshamin-temple/), I don't really understand how you can compare the removal of Civil War flags and monuments to the complete destruction of world heritage.
you can't. Its just dumb.
So removing monuments is not changing history. Removing the Confederate Flags from all National parks is truly dumb. The different races can have their Heritage but the Southerns can't 150 years later because we lost? BS! Why don't you go to the Southern Heritage Festival The Farm OffRoad Park - 284 Croxton Cross Road Smithville, Ga 31787
Aug. 28th - 30th If You Have Had Enough of them trying to erase our southern heritage, stripp us of our rights, and the way are government is being run - Come on out and let your voice be heard, and by all means Fly Your Flags both Ole Glory & The Confederate Flags !! Join us for a fun filled weekend of Southern Hospitality ( Heritage Not Hate ),..We will have Speakers from The League Of The South, Voice Of The Patriots, & Sons Of The Confederacy. We will also have a Saturday afternoon Flag Ride from the festival to a nearby historical confederate site and back, Live Music, Late Night Party and dancing with D N D "s very own DJ's - Rob & Charles, a spot for mud trucks to bogg we will have plenty of room and miles of trails for ATV's and Golf Carts, Primitive Camping for RV's & Tents. BBQ Competition, Corn Hole Competition, and all kind of fun events, food venders will be on site. Gates open at 5pm Thursday August 27th for those who would like to arrive early to set you RV's / campsites up. $30 for adults children 12 & under free this covers you for the entire weekend. And maybe you may learn something how Real Southern's feel. :)
I agree. Because the goal is not to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. No one is trying to change history.
The League of the South is a hate group. So much for "heritage and not hate."
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/league-south (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/league-south)
Freedom of Speech for all Adam White.
You're starting to sound like a broken record. Having a difference of opinion with someone is not saying that person doesn't have a right to an opinion. And I don't know where you are getting that I am saying the League of the South or anyone else isn't entitled to an opinion.
I am simply responding to your post - it appears to be a repost - where the author states the following:
Join us for a fun filled weekend of Southern Hospitality ( Heritage Not Hate ),..We will have Speakers from The League Of The South, Voice Of The Patriots, & Sons Of The Confederacy.
So they are saying their event is about "heritage not hate" yet they are advertising that the event will have speakers from a known hate group.
Adam you, yourself sound like a broken record. I could have left out this league of the South from my posting. But I posted it why because even if you have a hate group in your eye's. The people going to this event can decided for themselves can't they? :)
I don't understand half of your arguments, I have to admit.
But really - based on what you're saying - what's the difference between changing the name of Forrest HS and passing the 13th Amendment? By your logic, wasn't outlawing slavery basically an attack on Confederate symbols? Is outlawing slavery an attempt to erase or change history?
We live in a democratic society.* If the people want to change the name of a school or remove a flag from a building or monument, what's the problem? No one is trying to pretend the Civil War never happened. In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK as a reaction to desegregation.
*cue pedantic comment about the USA being "a republic, not a democracy" from people who didn't get past high school civics.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 09:47:55 AM
(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/a7/67/a767cd0889664ad3172fcde1aef2af3e.jpg?itok=yq1weyU1)
Close the thread, boys.
The man has won.
Quote from: KenFSU on August 24, 2015, 10:27:59 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 09:47:55 AM
(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/a7/67/a767cd0889664ad3172fcde1aef2af3e.jpg?itok=yq1weyU1)
Close the thread, boys.
The man has won.
The Confederate flag - symbol of Southern Culture, heritage, sovereignty and questionable fashion choices - not racial hatred.
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:20:28 AM
I don't understand half of your arguments, I have to admit.
But really - based on what you're saying - what's the difference between changing the name of Forrest HS and passing the 13th Amendment? By your logic, wasn't outlawing slavery basically an attack on Confederate symbols? Is outlawing slavery an attempt to erase or change history?
We live in a democratic society.* If the people want to change the name of a school or remove a flag from a building or monument, what's the problem? No one is trying to pretend the Civil War never happened. In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK as a reaction to desegregation.
*cue pedantic comment about the USA being "a republic, not a democracy" from people who didn't get past high school civics.
"In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK." And the Jacksonville man that started this drive got most of his signatures from people around America and just a few people from Jacksonville. Most of the children that go to his school could careless about school. Last year I believe this school was an F school so much for being proud of their new name? ha ha ha. Try and have Robert E Lee name changed, now thelakelander will tell you no one is trying to do this. But one day someone will try but it's OK to you to change the name because if the students vote on it then everyone else should Shut Up! There are some flags I don't like but people can fly them. And I love the American Flag but if I want to protest it one day the Supreme Court says I can. In closing Adam you act as if I need civic lessons from you. Well I don't so you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. Peace to most :D
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:20:28 AM
I don't understand half of your arguments, I have to admit.
But really - based on what you're saying - what's the difference between changing the name of Forrest HS and passing the 13th Amendment? By your logic, wasn't outlawing slavery basically an attack on Confederate symbols? Is outlawing slavery an attempt to erase or change history?
We live in a democratic society.* If the people want to change the name of a school or remove a flag from a building or monument, what's the problem? No one is trying to pretend the Civil War never happened. In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK as a reaction to desegregation.
*cue pedantic comment about the USA being "a republic, not a democracy" from people who didn't get past high school civics.
"In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK." And the Jacksonville man that started this drive got most of his signatures from people around America and just a few people from Jacksonville. Most of the children that go to his school could careless about school. Last year I believe this school was an F school so much for being proud of their new name? ha ha ha. Try and have Robert E Lee name changed, now thelakelander will tell you no one is trying to do this. But one day someone will try but it's OK to you to change the name because if the students vote on it then everyone else should Shut Up! There are some flags I don't like but people can fly them. And I love the American Flag but if I want to protest it one day the Supreme Court says I can. In closing Adam you act as if I need civic lessons from you. Well I don't so you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. Peace to most :D
The name was changed by the School Board, which is made up of democratically-elected representatives. That is how a representative democracy works.
And for the record - petition or no, apparently 64% of the students at the school favored the name change. So in this instance, I think we can fairly say that the actions of the elected school board officials reflected the opinions of those most affected by the name change.
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:54:58 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:20:28 AM
I don't understand half of your arguments, I have to admit.
But really - based on what you're saying - what's the difference between changing the name of Forrest HS and passing the 13th Amendment? By your logic, wasn't outlawing slavery basically an attack on Confederate symbols? Is outlawing slavery an attempt to erase or change history?
We live in a democratic society.* If the people want to change the name of a school or remove a flag from a building or monument, what's the problem? No one is trying to pretend the Civil War never happened. In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK as a reaction to desegregation.
*cue pedantic comment about the USA being "a republic, not a democracy" from people who didn't get past high school civics.
"In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK." And the Jacksonville man that started this drive got most of his signatures from people around America and just a few people from Jacksonville. Most of the children that go to his school could careless about school. Last year I believe this school was an F school so much for being proud of their new name? ha ha ha. Try and have Robert E Lee name changed, now thelakelander will tell you no one is trying to do this. But one day someone will try but it's OK to you to change the name because if the students vote on it then everyone else should Shut Up! There are some flags I don't like but people can fly them. And I love the American Flag but if I want to protest it one day the Supreme Court says I can. In closing Adam you act as if I need civic lessons from you. Well I don't so you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. Peace to most :D
The name was changed by the School Board, which is made up of democratically-elected representatives. That is how a representative democracy works.
And for the record - petition or no, apparently 64% of the students at the school favored the name change. So in this instance, I think we can fairly say that the actions of the elected school board officials reflected the opinions of those most affected by the name change.
Adam you and SD always want the last word. ::) But I will still call this school N.B. Forrest as I will still call 20th street expressway 20th street other then MLK and last Everbank stadium is still the Gator Bowl. Name changing is just stupid I understand the Gator Bowl change but then again it's owned by the city of Jacksonville I believe. I look forward to the other name changes to come because they will one day since we all should be "P C" NOT ME!
Feel free to call them whatever you want.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 12:26:42 PM
But I will still call this school N.B. Forrest as I will still call 20th street expressway 20th street other then MLK and last Everbank stadium is still the Gator Bowl.
That's fine. It's a free country and you have that right.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:54:58 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:20:28 AM
I don't understand half of your arguments, I have to admit.
But really - based on what you're saying - what's the difference between changing the name of Forrest HS and passing the 13th Amendment? By your logic, wasn't outlawing slavery basically an attack on Confederate symbols? Is outlawing slavery an attempt to erase or change history?
We live in a democratic society.* If the people want to change the name of a school or remove a flag from a building or monument, what's the problem? No one is trying to pretend the Civil War never happened. In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK as a reaction to desegregation.
*cue pedantic comment about the USA being "a republic, not a democracy" from people who didn't get past high school civics.
"In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK." And the Jacksonville man that started this drive got most of his signatures from people around America and just a few people from Jacksonville. Most of the children that go to his school could careless about school. Last year I believe this school was an F school so much for being proud of their new name? ha ha ha. Try and have Robert E Lee name changed, now thelakelander will tell you no one is trying to do this. But one day someone will try but it's OK to you to change the name because if the students vote on it then everyone else should Shut Up! There are some flags I don't like but people can fly them. And I love the American Flag but if I want to protest it one day the Supreme Court says I can. In closing Adam you act as if I need civic lessons from you. Well I don't so you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. Peace to most :D
The name was changed by the School Board, which is made up of democratically-elected representatives. That is how a representative democracy works.
And for the record - petition or no, apparently 64% of the students at the school favored the name change. So in this instance, I think we can fairly say that the actions of the elected school board officials reflected the opinions of those most affected by the name change.
Adam you and SD always want the last word. ::) But I will still call this school N.B. Forrest as I will still call 20th street expressway 20th street other then MLK and last Everbank stadium is still the Gator Bowl. Name changing is just stupid I understand the Gator Bowl change but then again it's owned by the city of Jacksonville I believe. I look forward to the other name changes to come because they will one day since we all should be "P C" NOT ME!
NB Forrest is owned by the city as well. So you must agree with that name change. Thanks for clearing that up.
Screw those name changes. When are we having the picnic at Dignan Park?
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 03:02:42 PM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:54:58 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:20:28 AM
I don't understand half of your arguments, I have to admit.
But really - based on what you're saying - what's the difference between changing the name of Forrest HS and passing the 13th Amendment? By your logic, wasn't outlawing slavery basically an attack on Confederate symbols? Is outlawing slavery an attempt to erase or change history?
We live in a democratic society.* If the people want to change the name of a school or remove a flag from a building or monument, what's the problem? No one is trying to pretend the Civil War never happened. In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK as a reaction to desegregation.
*cue pedantic comment about the USA being "a republic, not a democracy" from people who didn't get past high school civics.
"In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK." And the Jacksonville man that started this drive got most of his signatures from people around America and just a few people from Jacksonville. Most of the children that go to his school could careless about school. Last year I believe this school was an F school so much for being proud of their new name? ha ha ha. Try and have Robert E Lee name changed, now thelakelander will tell you no one is trying to do this. But one day someone will try but it's OK to you to change the name because if the students vote on it then everyone else should Shut Up! There are some flags I don't like but people can fly them. And I love the American Flag but if I want to protest it one day the Supreme Court says I can. In closing Adam you act as if I need civic lessons from you. Well I don't so you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. Peace to most :D
The name was changed by the School Board, which is made up of democratically-elected representatives. That is how a representative democracy works.
And for the record - petition or no, apparently 64% of the students at the school favored the name change. So in this instance, I think we can fairly say that the actions of the elected school board officials reflected the opinions of those most affected by the name change.
Adam you and SD always want the last word. ::) But I will still call this school N.B. Forrest as I will still call 20th street expressway 20th street other then MLK and last Everbank stadium is still the Gator Bowl. Name changing is just stupid I understand the Gator Bowl change but then again it's owned by the city of Jacksonville I believe. I look forward to the other name changes to come because they will one day since we all should be "P C" NOT ME!
NB Forrest is owned by the city as well. So you must agree with that name change. Thanks for clearing that up.
Adam the Gator Bowl is different then a failing school. Because the fact the taxpayers of Jax/Fl owns both. Love live the Confederate States of America! I'm glad I live in the land of Dixie. (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-csah.gif)
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 03:15:28 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 03:02:42 PM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:54:58 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 24, 2015, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: Adam White on August 24, 2015, 10:20:28 AM
I don't understand half of your arguments, I have to admit.
But really - based on what you're saying - what's the difference between changing the name of Forrest HS and passing the 13th Amendment? By your logic, wasn't outlawing slavery basically an attack on Confederate symbols? Is outlawing slavery an attempt to erase or change history?
We live in a democratic society.* If the people want to change the name of a school or remove a flag from a building or monument, what's the problem? No one is trying to pretend the Civil War never happened. In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK as a reaction to desegregation.
*cue pedantic comment about the USA being "a republic, not a democracy" from people who didn't get past high school civics.
"In the case of Forrest HS, people were trying to be fair and not force a bunch of kids to go to a school that was named after the founder of the KKK." And the Jacksonville man that started this drive got most of his signatures from people around America and just a few people from Jacksonville. Most of the children that go to his school could careless about school. Last year I believe this school was an F school so much for being proud of their new name? ha ha ha. Try and have Robert E Lee name changed, now thelakelander will tell you no one is trying to do this. But one day someone will try but it's OK to you to change the name because if the students vote on it then everyone else should Shut Up! There are some flags I don't like but people can fly them. And I love the American Flag but if I want to protest it one day the Supreme Court says I can. In closing Adam you act as if I need civic lessons from you. Well I don't so you believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. Peace to most :D
The name was changed by the School Board, which is made up of democratically-elected representatives. That is how a representative democracy works.
And for the record - petition or no, apparently 64% of the students at the school favored the name change. So in this instance, I think we can fairly say that the actions of the elected school board officials reflected the opinions of those most affected by the name change.
Adam you and SD always want the last word. ::) But I will still call this school N.B. Forrest as I will still call 20th street expressway 20th street other then MLK and last Everbank stadium is still the Gator Bowl. Name changing is just stupid I understand the Gator Bowl change but then again it's owned by the city of Jacksonville I believe. I look forward to the other name changes to come because they will one day since we all should be "P C" NOT ME!
NB Forrest is owned by the city as well. So you must agree with that name change. Thanks for clearing that up.
Adam the Gator Bowl is different then a failing school. Because the fact the taxpayers of Jax/Fl owns both. Love live the Confederate States of America! I'm glad I live in the land of Dixie. (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-csah.gif)
Wow, you really have to get the last word, huh?
The Confederates did have the last word, after all:
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2942/15194972308_06c373828c_b.jpg)
I wish I was in the land of cotton,
Old times there are not forgotten;
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
In Dixie's Land where I was born in,
Early on one frosty morning,
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
(Chorus)
Then I wish I was in Dixie! Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie's Land I'll take my stand, to live and die in Dixie!
Away! Away! Away down South in Dixie!
Away! Away! Away down South in Dixie!
Old Missus married "Will the Weaver";
William was a gay deceiver!
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
But when he put his arm around her,
Smiled as fierce as a forty-pounder!
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
(Chorus)
His face was sharp as a butcher's cleaver;
But that did not seem to grieve her!
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
Old Missus acted the foolish part
And died for a man that broke her heart!
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
(Chorus)
Now here's a health to the next old missus
And all the gals that want to kiss us!
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
But if you want to drive away sorrow,
Come and hear this song tomorrow!
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
(Chorus)
There's buckwheat cakes and Injin batter,
Makes you fat or a little fatter!
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
Then hoe it down and scratch your gravel,
To Dixie's Land I'm bound to travel!
Look away! Look away! Look away, Dixie's Land!
(Chorus)
Lol at this thread!
(http://k35.kn3.net/taringa/3/7/6/5/8/0/6/jpvm6/A0F.jpg?8604) (http://images5.fanpop.com/image/quiz/787000/787595_1328525471947_500_277.png)
Why stop in the 1860s? The Delorean can take us to any century we want to go...
(http://www.protofuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/we-dont-need-roads.gif)
Where we're going, we don't need brains.