Seems like theres a shooting every day in this town.
The man was outside of the Blind Rabbit restaurant on the corner of Kings and College Streets when he was shot twice in the head.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/blind-rabbit-employee-shot-at-while-taking-out-trash-witnesses-say/34307766
Quote from: Apache on July 23, 2015, 07:29:10 AM
Seems like theres a shooting every day in this town.
The man was outside of the Blind Rabbit restaurant on the corner of Kings and College Streets when he was shot twice in the head.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/blind-rabbit-employee-shot-at-while-taking-out-trash-witnesses-say/34307766
There is a shooting in Jacksonville everyday and the shooters don't care who is the mayor or the New sheriff is in town? This being said I hope & pray this restaurant worker doesn't die. This is getting closer to my area I hang out in. Damn! OMG this employee has died. per channel 4. :'( http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/crime/2015/07/23/blind-rabbit-worker-shot-suspects-sought/30553239/
It's well-known that the back of the Blind Rabbit is a drug dealing haven. Deliveries to restaurant employees are the rule, not the exception. Don't ask me how I know this, please.
This seems to be a clear case of: worker goes out to buy a bag (*not weed), there's some sort of issue, and it's settled with a gun.
Let's see the details unfold.. You heard it here first!
Quote from: ben says on July 23, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
It's well-known that the back of the Blind Rabbit is a drug dealing haven. Deliveries to restaurant employees are the rule, not the exception. Don't ask me how I know this, please.
This seems to be a clear case of: worker goes out to buy a bag (*not weed), there's some sort of issue, and it's settled with a gun.
Let's see the details unfold.. You heard it here first!
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt"
― Mark Twain
Quote from: ben says on July 23, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
It's well-known that the back of the Blind Rabbit is a drug dealing haven. Deliveries to restaurant employees are the rule, not the exception. Don't ask me how I know this, please.
This seems to be a clear case of: worker goes out to buy a bag (*not weed), there's some sort of issue, and it's settled with a gun.
Let's see the details unfold.. You heard it here first!
Ben says you have your Opinion. But this young father of two with one on the way is DEAD! And you bring this up first? Why not say your sorry this happen? Jesus Christ it amazes me what some people say when someone is Murdered you act as it's OK.
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on July 23, 2015, 09:01:55 AM
Quote from: ben says on July 23, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
It's well-known that the back of the Blind Rabbit is a drug dealing haven. Deliveries to restaurant employees are the rule, not the exception. Don't ask me how I know this, please.
This seems to be a clear case of: worker goes out to buy a bag (*not weed), there's some sort of issue, and it's settled with a gun.
Let's see the details unfold.. You heard it here first!
Ben says you have your Opinion. But this young father of two with one on the way is DEAD! And you bring this up first? Why not say your sorry this happen? Jesus Christ it amazes me what some people say when someone is Murdered you act as it's OK.
Hear Ben says feel good about your statement. (The father, Steven Rowe, is a chef at Kickbacks, across the street, and ran as soon has he heard about the shooting.
"I was actually sitting with him when his heart stopped," he said. "He would do anything for anybody, That's what he was doing last night. One of the guys at work was taking out the trash, and he offered to help, and it was just the wrong place at the wrong time. All I know, he was the greatest guy you could ever meet."
Daniel Rowe had two children, 6 years and 7 months old, and was engaged to be married.)
awful
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on July 23, 2015, 09:01:55 AM
Quote from: ben says on July 23, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
It's well-known that the back of the Blind Rabbit is a drug dealing haven. Deliveries to restaurant employees are the rule, not the exception. Don't ask me how I know this, please.
This seems to be a clear case of: worker goes out to buy a bag (*not weed), there's some sort of issue, and it's settled with a gun.
Let's see the details unfold.. You heard it here first!
Ben says you have your Opinion. But this young father of two with one on the way is DEAD! And you bring this up first? Why not say your sorry this happen? Jesus Christ it amazes me what some people say when someone is Murdered you act as it's OK.
I think you're jumping to conclusions about Ben's intent. Perhaps his comment seems callous, but I certainly don't think he is acting as if it's okay.
Quote from: Adam White on July 23, 2015, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on July 23, 2015, 09:01:55 AM
Quote from: ben says on July 23, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
It's well-known that the back of the Blind Rabbit is a drug dealing haven. Deliveries to restaurant employees are the rule, not the exception. Don't ask me how I know this, please.
This seems to be a clear case of: worker goes out to buy a bag (*not weed), there's some sort of issue, and it's settled with a gun.
Let's see the details unfold.. You heard it here first!
Ben says you have your Opinion. But this young father of two with one on the way is DEAD! And you bring this up first? Why not say your sorry this happen? Jesus Christ it amazes me what some people say when someone is Murdered you act as it's OK.
I think you're jumping to conclusions about Ben's intent. Perhaps his comment seems callous, but I certainly don't think he is acting as if it's okay.
Maybe not but the first thing I always think about is the victim, family & friends in this order. We don't know all the facts the JSO is still investigating. Let them come back and tell the public what they know before we jump the gun on what really happen.
There could easily be more to the story, and it may come out. But it won't change the fact that two (and soon to be three) children will grow up not knowing their father. That is tragic.
This is just horrible.
A tragedy for sure. What jumped out at me (and I will probably be pillored over this), but he was 20 and had a 6 year old kid? Wow.
Quote from: finehoe on July 23, 2015, 12:41:10 PM
A tragedy for sure. What jumped out at me (and I will probably be pillored over this), but he was 20 and had a 6 year old kid? Wow.
I believe from the interviews, the 6 year old is not his, but his fiancée's.
Terrible tragedy. He looks familiar.
We used to live very close to the BR And I'm familiar with the parking lot.
It was frequently a zone for disorderly behavior. And Corner of west st and college too
Robberies, car thefts, you name it
I wish that corner Was better lit. The cover of darkness enabled various crimes
Quote from: BennyKrik on July 23, 2015, 05:11:42 PM
Terrible tragedy. He looks familiar.
We used to live very close to the BR And I'm familiar with the parking lot.
It was frequently a zone for disorderly behavior. And Corner of west st and college too
Robberies, car thefts, you name it
I wish that corner Was better lit. The cover of darkness enabled various crimes
"enabled various crimes" Like MURDER of a young man. :'(
correct. Like Murder of a Young Man
Quote from: BennyKrik on July 23, 2015, 06:05:40 PM
correct. Like Murder of a Young Man
I watched Channel 25 tonight at 7pm and watching the parents of this young man it was so sad. They will never be the same who would be. They have their Sons shoes and a hand print & some of his hair. The Killers need to be caught and brought to Judgement and if found guilty sent to Death Row to count the days before they're put to death. And I'm not a real fan of the Death Penalty.
Quote from: ben says on July 23, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
It's well-known that the back of the Blind Rabbit is a drug dealing haven. Deliveries to restaurant employees are the rule, not the exception. Don't ask me how I know this, please.
This seems to be a clear case of: worker goes out to buy a bag (*not weed), there's some sort of issue, and it's settled with a gun.
Let's see the details unfold.. You heard it here first!
I typically lean this direction as well, but held back this time, and I'll preface this with just because someone sells/uses doesn't make them a bad person, just a person that doesn't make the best of choices sometimes. Unfortunately the 'rules' are a little different for some regarding the best way to handle a 'situation'.
After talking to some people who knew the kid, the word 'executed' has been used a lot more than 'killed' or 'murdered' or 'shot', so we may not find out exactly what happened, but there does, in fact, seem to be a much lengthier backstory than a drug deal (singular) gone bad.
Quote from: stephendare on July 23, 2015, 09:55:19 PM
yeah and the rhetoric on Facebook in some of those conversations has been incredibly conspiratorial and racist.
The quicker the real details are discovered, the better.
No doubt.
And I forgot to mention this in my earlier post, many of the businesses on the strip have set up / are setting up multiple ways aside from a direct donation to help contribute some much needed $$$$ for his family. So if you can't decide where to eat or have an adult beverage, head on over to King St.
Quote from: stephendare on July 23, 2015, 09:55:19 PM
The quicker the real details are discovered, the better.
I agree and really wish this were the mentality when some "innocent youth" gets blasted by a LEO.
We were flooded out last night, did anyone make it to the vigil?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on July 23, 2015, 09:47:39 PM
Quote from: ben says on July 23, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
It's well-known that the back of the Blind Rabbit is a drug dealing haven. Deliveries to restaurant employees are the rule, not the exception. Don't ask me how I know this, please.
This seems to be a clear case of: worker goes out to buy a bag (*not weed), there's some sort of issue, and it's settled with a gun.
Let's see the details unfold.. You heard it here first!
I typically lean this direction as well, but held back this time, and I'll preface this with just because someone sells/uses doesn't make them a bad person, just a person that doesn't make the best of choices sometimes. Unfortunately the 'rules' are a little different for some regarding the best way to handle a 'situation'.
After talking to some people who knew the kid, the word 'executed' has been used a lot more than 'killed' or 'murdered' or 'shot', so we may not find out exactly what happened, but there does, in fact, seem to be a much lengthier backstory than a drug deal (singular) gone bad.
I wasn't making the argument that, "because this may be a drug fueled crime, therefore the victim is bad." But something tells me you know this already ;)
Reminds me,I do not believe the Avondale/Mojo killer was ever 'caught'.
Any news from Law Enforcement?
I know of some folks recently moved here from a far away state-staying at the College Street area temporarily and they are so very happy the stay is for a short time. They had their doubts about the area even before this latest episode.
Quote from: Know Growth on July 24, 2015, 03:27:29 PM
Reminds me,I do not believe the Avondale/Mojo killer was ever 'caught'.
Any news from Law Enforcement?
I know of some folks recently moved here from a far away state-staying at the College Street area temporarily and they are so very happy the stay is for a short time. They had their doubts about the area even before this latest episode.
He was caught. Haven't read up on any details of the trial however.
edit: His next court date is August 21st.
Quote from: Apache on July 24, 2015, 03:47:28 PM
2 shots to the head doesn't sound like your typical random act of violence.
Random is not a word that's been used at all.
Oh it's so nice of jEA.
When we lived near BR, I contacted Jim Love about the lights.
he said Ho Ho Ho, when I became councilman first thing we did here was add more lights to make the area feel safer.
He understood the idea of crime and lighting but no lights were added!
Quote from: Apache on July 24, 2015, 07:24:34 PM
JEA has already added more lighting to the area, which is great, but I wonder how often that happens after a shooting in town
http://www.news4jax.com/news/jea-adds-lights-to-scene-of-restaurant-shooting/34334352
JEA doesn't do it out of the goodness of their heart. They are directed to do so by XYZ politician.
Probably so. If this is the requirement for better lighting some other areas of town would have already been lit up like Christmas trees by now.
Is it possible this was a gang initiation incident?
Quote from: camarocane on July 25, 2015, 09:17:18 AM
Quote from: Apache on July 24, 2015, 07:24:34 PM
JEA has already added more lighting to the area, which is great, but I wonder how often that happens after a shooting in town
http://www.news4jax.com/news/jea-adds-lights-to-scene-of-restaurant-shooting/34334352
JEA doesn't do it out of the goodness of their heart. They are directed to do so by XYZ politician.
XYZ's business office happens to be across the street from The Blind Rabbit.
Regardless of how or why it happened, a tragedy. Hope justice is swift!
Quote from: stephendare on July 25, 2015, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 25, 2015, 09:43:30 AM
Probably so. If this is the requirement for better lighting some other areas of town would have already been lit up like Christmas trees by now.
Truly. The area around Shands would be visible from space in the middle of the night.
Reminds me of the Old Days when some suggested the Metropolitan Planning District should extend well south! Too soon.
It is visible from space,even a bit before middle of night.Just imagine if the JEA Power Plants had been built,a wee bit West!?An area at the right time,right place.The air is better down there.
Interesting to witness rationalization, little or no differentiation.
OOOps!
Assumed Shands Bridge 8)
Folks from a far away state,now residing College St for a bit, have spoken with LEO after shooting- cause for relaxation to a degree. What was said?
Quote from: camarocane on July 25, 2015, 09:17:18 AM
Quote from: Apache on July 24, 2015, 07:24:34 PM
JEA has already added more lighting to the area, which is great, but I wonder how often that happens after a shooting in town
http://www.news4jax.com/news/jea-adds-lights-to-scene-of-restaurant-shooting/34334352
JEA doesn't do it out of the goodness of their heart. They are directed to do so by XYZ politician.
The true sad fact is why do we wait until after a crime happens to put up better lights and security cameras?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on July 23, 2015, 10:15:28 PM
...many of the businesses on the strip have set up / are setting up multiple ways aside from a direct donation to help contribute some much needed $$$$ for his family. So if you can't decide where to eat or have an adult beverage, head on over to King St.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goozlepipe-Guttyworks/366705693481567
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on July 26, 2015, 05:47:15 AM
Quote from: camarocane on July 25, 2015, 09:17:18 AM
Quote from: Apache on July 24, 2015, 07:24:34 PM
JEA has already added more lighting to the area, which is great, but I wonder how often that happens after a shooting in town
http://www.news4jax.com/news/jea-adds-lights-to-scene-of-restaurant-shooting/34334352
JEA doesn't do it out of the goodness of their heart. They are directed to do so by XYZ politician.
The true sad fact is why do we wait until after a crime happens to put up better lights and security cameras?
Because funding is not in place for every dark corner of the city. People would then be bitching about excessive wasteful spending.
Even if this young man was executed over a bad drug debt it still does not justify the actions towards him. If the worst case scenario is true that he owed heroin dealers i doubt it was more than $200 bucks and a life is worth way more than that. We now have multiple kids growing up with out a dad and a family wrecked by tragedy.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on August 04, 2015, 01:14:06 PM
Oh, i think you misconstrue what I am saying, Stephen. I am not passing judgment-- in fact I was kind of shocked when i heard this as I thought that things like that only happened on The Wire. Just stating what I had heard-- interpret or attach whatever value to it you would like. I will say, though, that it is at least a bit more comforting to know someone isnt out there in Riverside just killing random strangers. I know that might be a disgusting thought to some, but I will admit I had it.
I live in Riverside and had the same thought too, its not disgusting its natural. And yes, killings like this happen multiple times a day across the U.S. The wire did not make this scenario up, it is a very common one unfortunately.
Not a very good drug dealer if he's selling to waiters and busboys for anything other than cash upfront...
Good article about the incident in this week's Resident local newspaper. In it Steve Flores, owner of Kickbacks, says it was not drug related. The dude's father worked for Steve and the kid used to work for Steve.
I actually haven't read the resident article yet. I believe what I said during the interview two days after the murder was that Daniel, his girlfriend and his mother used to work for me several months ago and his dad currently works for me. I believe I also said that I have never known any of them to use drugs or be involved in any drug related activity and that I would be very surprised if drugs had anything to do with the murder. No matter what the situation was, Daniel was a great kid and his entire family are great people especially his father who my heart aches for the most.
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 05, 2015, 12:00:22 AM
Good article about the incident in this week's Resident local newspaper. In it Steve Flores, owner of Kickbacks, says it was not drug related. The dude's father worked for Steve and the kid used to work for Steve.
"Facebook and the Gossip rags are located elsewhere....Sad story, no need to say what has already been said elsewhere."
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on August 05, 2015, 08:26:31 AM
My info came from a police officer who works in the neighborhood. Take it for what you will....
Could be right I wonder would that cop want to go on record?
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 06, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Not sure how finding the culprit and framing a random person are related. This is the kind of thinking that justifies sweeping a murder under the rug because too much effort is involved in doing the right thing. "We shouldn't do anything because we might get the wrong person."
In situations like this it's real easy to get information. JSO has an incredible amount of leverage in that area in terms of police informants and known drug houses.
Until a stand is taken events like this will be our normal. Unless we are aiming to be like Baltimore or Detroit I'm thinking we don't want it to be our normal. Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder. Too many folks thinking the wrong person might get accused so it's better to not ruffle feathers and make a scene.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 06, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Not sure how finding the culprit and framing a random person are related. This is the kind of thinking that justifies sweeping a murder under the rug because too much effort is involved in doing the right thing. "We shouldn't do anything because we might get the wrong person."
In situations like this it's real easy to get information. JSO has an incredible amount of leverage in that area in terms of police informants and known drug houses.
Until a stand is taken events like this will be our normal. Unless we are aiming to be like Baltimore or Detroit I'm thinking we don't want it to be our normal. Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder. Too many folks thinking the wrong person might get accused so it's better to not ruffle feathers and make a scene.
I think you're living in a dream world if you think that putting people on the front page for murder will actually make a difference. Many would argue that the death penalty should be the ultimate disincentive to murder, yet people still murder in States with the death penalty. Murderers have more pressing concerns then whether or not they will end up in the newspaper.
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 06, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Not sure how finding the culprit and framing a random person are related. This is the kind of thinking that justifies sweeping a murder under the rug because too much effort is involved in doing the right thing. "We shouldn't do anything because we might get the wrong person."
In situations like this it's real easy to get information. JSO has an incredible amount of leverage in that area in terms of police informants and known drug houses.
Until a stand is taken events like this will be our normal. Unless we are aiming to be like Baltimore or Detroit I'm thinking we don't want it to be our normal. Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder. Too many folks thinking the wrong person might get accused so it's better to not ruffle feathers and make a scene.
I think you're living in a dream world if you think that putting people on the front page for murder will actually make a difference. Many would argue that the death penalty should be the ultimate disincentive to murder, yet people still murder in States with the death penalty. Murderers have more pressing concerns then whether or not they will end up in the newspaper.
Right on, now that makes perfect sense! Action shouldn't be taken and the killer arrested because 1.) JSO might arrest the wrong person. 2.) States that have the death penalty still have murders.
Not sure how the death penalty got worked into this topic but yeah, it all comes together now! Thanks, I've been enlightened and have awoke from my dream.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 06, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Not sure how finding the culprit and framing a random person are related. This is the kind of thinking that justifies sweeping a murder under the rug because too much effort is involved in doing the right thing. "We shouldn't do anything because we might get the wrong person."
In situations like this it's real easy to get information. JSO has an incredible amount of leverage in that area in terms of police informants and known drug houses.
Until a stand is taken events like this will be our normal. Unless we are aiming to be like Baltimore or Detroit I'm thinking we don't want it to be our normal. Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder. Too many folks thinking the wrong person might get accused so it's better to not ruffle feathers and make a scene.
I think you're living in a dream world if you think that putting people on the front page for murder will actually make a difference. Many would argue that the death penalty should be the ultimate disincentive to murder, yet people still murder in States with the death penalty. Murderers have more pressing concerns then whether or not they will end up in the newspaper.
Right on, now that makes perfect sense! Action shouldn't be taken and the killer arrested because 1.) JSO might arrest the wrong person. 2.) States that have the death penalty still have murders.
Not sure how the death penalty got worked into this topic but yeah, it all comes together now! Thanks, I've been enlightened and have awoke from my dream.
I am not saying the police shouldn't arrest a suspect - if they have one. I was responding to this "enlightened" statement:
Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder.
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 01:44:47 PM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 06, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Not sure how finding the culprit and framing a random person are related. This is the kind of thinking that justifies sweeping a murder under the rug because too much effort is involved in doing the right thing. "We shouldn't do anything because we might get the wrong person."
In situations like this it's real easy to get information. JSO has an incredible amount of leverage in that area in terms of police informants and known drug houses.
Until a stand is taken events like this will be our normal. Unless we are aiming to be like Baltimore or Detroit I'm thinking we don't want it to be our normal. Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder. Too many folks thinking the wrong person might get accused so it's better to not ruffle feathers and make a scene.
I think you're living in a dream world if you think that putting people on the front page for murder will actually make a difference. Many would argue that the death penalty should be the ultimate disincentive to murder, yet people still murder in States with the death penalty. Murderers have more pressing concerns then whether or not they will end up in the newspaper.
Right on, now that makes perfect sense! Action shouldn't be taken and the killer arrested because 1.) JSO might arrest the wrong person. 2.) States that have the death penalty still have murders.
Not sure how the death penalty got worked into this topic but yeah, it all comes together now! Thanks, I've been enlightened and have awoke from my dream.
I am not saying the police shouldn't arrest a suspect - if they have one. I was responding to this "enlightened" statement:
Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder.
There's no suspect because the JSO spent zero hours investigating this. For some folks this was a drug murder which to them means, 'it is what it is'. The general area is such that pretty much any murder can be chalked up as a drug murder. In the King Street area there is no rule of law. It's been this way ever since I can remember. Research any murder in that area, I would bet my last dollar that there's not even a 10% arrest rate for murders in cases where the killer wasn't hanging around with a smoking gun. My point is that if we cared and JSO did a little digging some of these killers would be taken off the street and we wouldn't have the lawless mess that currently exists.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 01:44:47 PM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 06, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Not sure how finding the culprit and framing a random person are related. This is the kind of thinking that justifies sweeping a murder under the rug because too much effort is involved in doing the right thing. "We shouldn't do anything because we might get the wrong person."
In situations like this it's real easy to get information. JSO has an incredible amount of leverage in that area in terms of police informants and known drug houses.
Until a stand is taken events like this will be our normal. Unless we are aiming to be like Baltimore or Detroit I'm thinking we don't want it to be our normal. Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder. Too many folks thinking the wrong person might get accused so it's better to not ruffle feathers and make a scene.
I think you're living in a dream world if you think that putting people on the front page for murder will actually make a difference. Many would argue that the death penalty should be the ultimate disincentive to murder, yet people still murder in States with the death penalty. Murderers have more pressing concerns then whether or not they will end up in the newspaper.
Right on, now that makes perfect sense! Action shouldn't be taken and the killer arrested because 1.) JSO might arrest the wrong person. 2.) States that have the death penalty still have murders.
Not sure how the death penalty got worked into this topic but yeah, it all comes together now! Thanks, I've been enlightened and have awoke from my dream.
I am not saying the police shouldn't arrest a suspect - if they have one. I was responding to this "enlightened" statement:
Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder.
There's no suspect because the JSO spent zero hours investigating this. For some folks this was a drug murder which to them means, 'it is what it is'. The general area is such that pretty much any murder can be chalked up as a drug murder. In the King Street area there is no rule of law. It's been this way ever since I can remember. Research any murder in that area, I would bet my last dollar that there's not even a 10% arrest rate for murders in cases where the killer wasn't hanging around with a smoking gun. My point is that if we cared and JSO did a little digging some of these killers would be taken off the street and we wouldn't have the lawless mess that currently exists.
How do you know the JSO hasn't done any investigation?
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 02:41:14 PM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 01:44:47 PM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 06, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Not sure how finding the culprit and framing a random person are related. This is the kind of thinking that justifies sweeping a murder under the rug because too much effort is involved in doing the right thing. "We shouldn't do anything because we might get the wrong person."
In situations like this it's real easy to get information. JSO has an incredible amount of leverage in that area in terms of police informants and known drug houses.
Until a stand is taken events like this will be our normal. Unless we are aiming to be like Baltimore or Detroit I'm thinking we don't want it to be our normal. Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder. Too many folks thinking the wrong person might get accused so it's better to not ruffle feathers and make a scene.
I think you're living in a dream world if you think that putting people on the front page for murder will actually make a difference. Many would argue that the death penalty should be the ultimate disincentive to murder, yet people still murder in States with the death penalty. Murderers have more pressing concerns then whether or not they will end up in the newspaper.
Right on, now that makes perfect sense! Action shouldn't be taken and the killer arrested because 1.) JSO might arrest the wrong person. 2.) States that have the death penalty still have murders.
Not sure how the death penalty got worked into this topic but yeah, it all comes together now! Thanks, I've been enlightened and have awoke from my dream.
I am not saying the police shouldn't arrest a suspect - if they have one. I was responding to this "enlightened" statement:
Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder.
There's no suspect because the JSO spent zero hours investigating this. For some folks this was a drug murder which to them means, 'it is what it is'. The general area is such that pretty much any murder can be chalked up as a drug murder. In the King Street area there is no rule of law. It's been this way ever since I can remember. Research any murder in that area, I would bet my last dollar that there's not even a 10% arrest rate for murders in cases where the killer wasn't hanging around with a smoking gun. My point is that if we cared and JSO did a little digging some of these killers would be taken off the street and we wouldn't have the lawless mess that currently exists.
How do you know the JSO hasn't done any investigation?
There's a case number. Does someone have it? Let's look it up and talk to the assigned officer.
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 04:07:30 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 02:41:14 PM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 01:44:47 PM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 06, 2015, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on August 06, 2015, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Does it matter if it was drug related or not? A life is a life. Unless we are living in a Mad Max kind of society killing someone over a debt is inexcusable. Have the police found the culprit? Or is this getting swept under the rug as another 'Jax drug murder'? With the huge and elaborate criminal justice system of JSO/Duval county one would think that shaking down some area drug houses for information would be pretty easy.
I can guarantee if something like this happened in Epping Forest the JSO would have the culprit behind bars in 48 hours tops. Just keeping it real.
I believe you have some good points. But crime isn't this easy to solve, the police in all fairness have the best chance of solving a lot of crime in the first 48 hours when it comes to Murder or maybe any crime in general. Depending on what the crime is and making sure Innocent people are not being framed for something they didn't do?
Not sure how finding the culprit and framing a random person are related. This is the kind of thinking that justifies sweeping a murder under the rug because too much effort is involved in doing the right thing. "We shouldn't do anything because we might get the wrong person."
In situations like this it's real easy to get information. JSO has an incredible amount of leverage in that area in terms of police informants and known drug houses.
Until a stand is taken events like this will be our normal. Unless we are aiming to be like Baltimore or Detroit I'm thinking we don't want it to be our normal. Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder. Too many folks thinking the wrong person might get accused so it's better to not ruffle feathers and make a scene.
I think you're living in a dream world if you think that putting people on the front page for murder will actually make a difference. Many would argue that the death penalty should be the ultimate disincentive to murder, yet people still murder in States with the death penalty. Murderers have more pressing concerns then whether or not they will end up in the newspaper.
Right on, now that makes perfect sense! Action shouldn't be taken and the killer arrested because 1.) JSO might arrest the wrong person. 2.) States that have the death penalty still have murders.
Not sure how the death penalty got worked into this topic but yeah, it all comes together now! Thanks, I've been enlightened and have awoke from my dream.
I am not saying the police shouldn't arrest a suspect - if they have one. I was responding to this "enlightened" statement:
Put a couple murderers on the front page and watch the murder rate go down. Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder.
There's no suspect because the JSO spent zero hours investigating this. For some folks this was a drug murder which to them means, 'it is what it is'. The general area is such that pretty much any murder can be chalked up as a drug murder. In the King Street area there is no rule of law. It's been this way ever since I can remember. Research any murder in that area, I would bet my last dollar that there's not even a 10% arrest rate for murders in cases where the killer wasn't hanging around with a smoking gun. My point is that if we cared and JSO did a little digging some of these killers would be taken off the street and we wouldn't have the lawless mess that currently exists.
How do you know the JSO hasn't done any investigation?
There's a case number. Does someone have it? Let's look it up and talk to the assigned officer.
The case number is 201500500736.
Because its a homicide case the public will not have access to the investigation's complete reports, of which there will be plenty, nor will the investigating detective give you the inside scoop.
Beyond that, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you think JSO has such leverage in the drug community that the suspect will be so easily determined and delivered (if it was a drug related murder, which is a further blind guess on your part).
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder.
Florida 3rd in Nation for Executionshttp://patch.com/florida/sarasota/florida-3rd-nation-executions-0
Apparently it's true that the death penalty does not deter crime.
The only way the death penalty could deter crime. Is after a man or woman was found guilty you take them out back of the court house and kill them right then and there. Of course I hope this NEVER happens in America myself. For over the years people have been put to death and where not guilty of the crime. Before DNA came into play I wonder how many States put Innocent people to DEATH? And Rick Scott cares about the life of an unborn baby that may be aborted but has no problem putting someone on death row to DEATH seems like a double standard to me Ricky? Yes I know Rick Scott is only the Governor of the once great state of Florida. And the person on death row was found guilty in a court of law. ::) But if your Pro-life it should be for all life.
Quote from: finehoe on August 06, 2015, 07:41:42 PM
Quote from: NaldoAveKnight on August 06, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Right now there's no incentive for someone not to murder.
Florida 3rd in Nation for Executions
http://patch.com/florida/sarasota/florida-3rd-nation-executions-0
Apparently it's true that the death penalty does not deter crime.
I mentioned that - but apparently the poster doesn't see the connection. He asked why I brought the death penalty into the discussion.
Capital punishment: The purpose is not primarily to deter such horrific crimes in the future, but rather to extract the only punishment that suits such crimes. If the main goal of punishment was deterring future crimes, then the justice system would be a complete failure, as crimes still happen, across the board..
I've never quite bought how us as society taking someone's life as punishment for what they did makes us any better than they are.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on August 07, 2015, 10:40:00 PM
I've never quite bought how us as society taking someone's life as punishment for what they did makes us any better than they are.
I agree. But then again, I always viewed the main purpose of prison to be a) rehabilitation and b) to protect society from dangerous criminals. Although I can appreciate a punitive aspect being necessary to prison sentences, I don't think we should be in the business of extracting vengeance.
Besides - most countries have eliminated capital punishment. This leaves the USA in league with such human rights luminaries as Saudi Arabia, Iran, China and North Korea. Well done! Even Russia got rid of the death penalty.
...in an existential manner of cause and effect, there needs to be a cost for crimes committed against individuals. This is where "the crime fits the punishment" idea comes into play; some crimes being so great that the debt can only be paid for by life. Rehabilitation is a worthy goal, but some are beyond that...
Chris, can you see the difference between society fairly sentencing someone to death and the murderous actions of the person who killed the Perrywinkle child? Its not the same, in any sense. I use him as example because rehabilitation is (probably) impossible and the debt incurred to so great.
Quote from: AKIRA on August 08, 2015, 07:15:42 PM
...in an existential manner of cause and effect, there needs to be a cost for crimes committed against individuals. This is where "the crime fits the punishment" idea comes into play; some crimes being so great that the debt can only be paid for by life. Rehabilitation is a worthy goal, but some are beyond that...
Chris, can you see the difference between society fairly sentencing someone to death and the murderous actions of the person who killed the Perrywinkle child? Its not the same, in any sense. I use him as example because rehabilitation is (probably) impossible and the debt incurred to so great.
You didn't ask me - but I'm opposed to capital punishment, full stop. I don't know the case of the Perrywinkle child, but wouldn't support a death sentence in any case.
Quote from: Adam White on August 08, 2015, 10:21:17 PM
You didn't ask me - but I'm opposed to capital punishment, full stop. I don't know the case of the Perrywinkle child, but wouldn't support a death sentence in any case.
Are you for or against life imprisonment sentences?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 08, 2015, 11:08:10 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 08, 2015, 10:21:17 PM
You didn't ask me - but I'm opposed to capital punishment, full stop. I don't know the case of the Perrywinkle child, but wouldn't support a death sentence in any case.
Are you for or against life imprisonment sentences?
I'm not 100% against life sentences - depending on the crime. I am against the idea of locking someone up for life and never reviewing the sentence, though. I think that a "life sentence" should be eligible for review at some point.
Quote from: Adam White on August 09, 2015, 04:03:44 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 08, 2015, 11:08:10 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 08, 2015, 10:21:17 PM
You didn't ask me - but I'm opposed to capital punishment, full stop. I don't know the case of the Perrywinkle child, but wouldn't support a death sentence in any case.
Are you for or against life imprisonment sentences?
I'm not 100% against life sentences - depending on the crime. I am against the idea of locking someone up for life and never reviewing the sentence, though. I think that a "life sentence" should be eligible for review at some point.
I followed up with this in another thread: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,25002.new.html#new
We are hosting a fundraiser at the brewery to benefit the Rowe family on Saturday from 1 to 6.
Chefs from many local restaurants will be joining up at Intuition to cook BBQ for ticketholders and offer other tasty fare.
Ticket proceeds will go to support the Rowe family. Intuition will have the outdoor area open and will be selling beer as well. $1 from each beer sold throughout the event will go directly to the family.
Participating chefs include Chef Paul McMaster from Blind Rabbit, Chef Ryan from Kitchen on San Marco, Chef Jim Stark of SuperFood and Brew , and Chef Trey Stark from Trasca and Co. Participating restaurants include Bono's, Mellow Mushroom, Burrito Gallery, and Black Sheep.
Please join us for this very worthy cause!
Go here to get your tickets to the event. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/behind-you-bbq-tickets-18024901967
Quote from: Intuition Ale Works on August 10, 2015, 09:39:16 AM
We are hosting a fundraiser at the brewery to benefit the Rowe family on Saturday from 1 to 6.
Chefs from many local restaurants will be joining up at Intuition to cook BBQ for ticketholders and offer other tasty fare.
Ticket proceeds will go to support the Rowe family. Intuition will have the outdoor area open and will be selling beer as well. $1 from each beer sold throughout the event will go directly to the family.
Participating chefs include Chef Paul McMaster from Blind Rabbit, Chef Ryan from Kitchen on San Marco, Chef Jim Stark of SuperFood and Brew , and Chef Trey Stark from Trasca and Co. Participating restaurants include Bono's, Mellow Mushroom, Burrito Gallery, and Black Sheep.
Please join us for this very worthy cause!
Go here to get your tickets to the event. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/behind-you-bbq-tickets-18024901967
Very good idea! Go here to get your tickets to the event. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/behind-you-bbq-tickets-18024901967
Quote from: AKIRA on August 06, 2015, 06:35:09 PM
Because its a homicide case the public will not have access to the investigation's complete reports, of which there will be plenty, nor will the investigating detective give you the inside scoop.
Beyond that, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you think JSO has such leverage in the drug community that the suspect will be so easily determined and delivered (if it was a drug related murder, which is a further blind guess on your part).
I never inferred it was a drug related murder. Some members of the community did. It's more convenient that way. In their eyes it justifies the whole thing and makes it easy to sweep it under the rug. I'm saying if indeed it was a drug related murder then it should be easier to follow the breadcrumb trail left behind for any kind of police work. Because there's been no arrests or anything publicly known it seems that either a.) it was a random act of violence or b.) JSO doesn't care.
Back in 2003-4 I lived in the King Street area for two months. We had a crack house across the street. The police said they wouldn't bust the house because they were monitoring the traffic and recording the license plates of folks coming to the house. They also were sending buyers (narcs) into the house to build the case. Eventually they took the house down but only after many months of gathering information and evidence. My friend told me they busted the house about eight months after we contacted the police. That's why I said JSO has it's hooks into the street, they know a lot of what's going on and monitor it.
knowing where one crack house is is a far cry from knowing all of them.
In my experience, there are an phenomenal amount of dealers, users, house in Jax, especially in the 1 mile radius of the Blind Rabbit. Too many for the JSO manpower to keep complete track of..
Look at it this way: a city of 900,000 people > 20 or so homicide detectives...?
A report from the Field:
Acquaintances of mine who moved to the area temporarily,about two blocks from Blind Rabbit,are so glad the stay is temporary.
Nothing like their former Idaho home area. Soon there were questions....They have spoken with JSO Officers about their Riverside address- responses have been cautionary-one Officer noted he would rather not go there in his patrol car,full duty.
And recently- knock on the door,JSO Officer, reporting on armed robbery across the street. Two black males, targeted neighbor in the front yard,8:30 pm.
Our recent newcomers from Idaho love the region, actively reviewing surrounding counties.......... 8)
It is truly a shame that these types of crimes are happening in such a nice area. This may be politically incorrect, but if you were to build a wall blocking out everything north of I-10 i bet riverside crime would drop....
A wall would only be an expensive minor inconvenience. Other than gate off the entire area and post a guard at the entrance, there is not much more that can be done.
Quote from: gerschea@gmail.com on September 08, 2015, 11:11:21 AM
It is truly a shame that these types of crimes are happening in such a nice area. This may be politically incorrect, but if you were to build a wall blocking out everything north of I-10 i bet riverside crime would drop....
Bull! A lot of low life live in the Riverside area now as I type this.
Quote from: camarocane on September 08, 2015, 12:05:35 PM
A wall would only be an expensive minor inconvenience. Other than gate off the entire area and post a guard at the entrance, there is not much more that can be done.
Nonsense - there is enough revenue flowing on King Street to support a merchant association backed security force and upgraded lighting, and have this backstopped by JSO patrols or a sub station.
But they do nothing... Meanwhile late night mostly white kids, drunk, in the dark, with little police presence pose attractive targets luring criminals into the area...
LMAO at all the people on this board posting in other threads saying Jax is less racist than other cities, is more integrated, and has better relationships between black and white populations than those nasty northern cities. I'm sure most Riverside residents would happily build a wall if they could come up with the funds. An artisanal wall hand crafted using locally sourced materials.
Quote from: obie1 on September 09, 2015, 11:17:10 AM
LMAO at all the people on this board posting in other threads saying Jax is less racist than other cities, is more integrated, and has better relationships between black and white populations than those nasty northern cities. I'm sure most Riverside residents would happily build a wall if they could come up with the funds. An artisanal wall hand crafted using locally sourced materials.
So a desire to be safe and go through your life undisturbed by criminals is racist? How is that?
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: camarocane on September 08, 2015, 12:05:35 PM
A wall would only be an expensive minor inconvenience. Other than gate off the entire area and post a guard at the entrance, there is not much more that can be done.
Nonsense - there is enough revenue flowing on King Street to support a merchant association backed security force and upgraded lighting, and have this backstopped by JSO patrols or a sub station.
But they do nothing... Meanwhile late night mostly white kids, drunk, in the dark, with little police presence pose attractive targets luring criminals into the area...
It's not nonsense... the King St corridor is not in question. It's Riverside as a whole which we were referring. I would imagine its a little tougher to police than a busy intersection.
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 11:28:41 AM
Quote from: obie1 on September 09, 2015, 11:17:10 AM
LMAO at all the people on this board posting in other threads saying Jax is less racist than other cities, is more integrated, and has better relationships between black and white populations than those nasty northern cities. I'm sure most Riverside residents would happily build a wall if they could come up with the funds. An artisanal wall hand crafted using locally sourced materials.
So a desire to be safe and go through your life undisturbed by criminals is racist? How is that?
+1... And here comes the race baiting.
What is the latest statistic for murder? Black males commit murder 8 to 1 vs white males?
Quote from: camarocane on September 09, 2015, 02:14:10 PM
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 11:28:41 AM
Quote from: obie1 on September 09, 2015, 11:17:10 AM
LMAO at all the people on this board posting in other threads saying Jax is less racist than other cities, is more integrated, and has better relationships between black and white populations than those nasty northern cities. I'm sure most Riverside residents would happily build a wall if they could come up with the funds. An artisanal wall hand crafted using locally sourced materials.
So a desire to be safe and go through your life undisturbed by criminals is racist? How is that?
+1... And here comes the race baiting.
Quote from: stephendare on September 09, 2015, 10:24:18 PM
Quote from: AngryChicken on September 09, 2015, 10:05:50 PM
What is the latest statistic for murder? Black males commit murder 8 to 1 vs white males?
Quote from: camarocane on September 09, 2015, 02:14:10 PM
Quote from: Sentient on September 09, 2015, 11:28:41 AM
Quote from: obie1 on September 09, 2015, 11:17:10 AM
LMAO at all the people on this board posting in other threads saying Jax is less racist than other cities, is more integrated, and has better relationships between black and white populations than those nasty northern cities. I'm sure most Riverside residents would happily build a wall if they could come up with the funds. An artisanal wall hand crafted using locally sourced materials.
So a desire to be safe and go through your life undisturbed by criminals is racist? How is that?
+1... And here comes the race baiting.
no. literally untrue.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/02/sally-kohn/sally-kohn-white-men-69-percent-arrested-violent/
take it back to the race baiting circle jerk, AC
AC's statement is untrue only because - using Stephen's own article's numbers - it's about 7 times not 8.
"The exception is for homicides. While you won't find that information on the Justice Department website, it can be culled from federal records, which is what James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University, has done for many years.
Fox sent us the following homicide arrest numbers:
Year Race Sex Reported Percent Rate per 100K
2012 White Male 4,631 41.5% 4.9
2012 Black Male 5,095 45.6% 35.2
2013 White Male 4,486 41.7% 4.7
2013 Black Male 4,863 45.2% 33.0
Source: James Alan Fox (The percentages are based on all homicide arrests, not just the ones you see in the table.)
Looking solely at murders, black men are arrested more for murder than white men, and at a much higher rate when you account for population."
Quote from: stephendare on September 10, 2015, 10:38:04 AM
wow. 'sentient' read the actual article and don't make me repost the entire thing to show what a dishonest bit of cherry picking you just did.
Please tell me that the average right winger isn't actually this dull witted.
You continue to see only what you want to see. Maybe you should be the one reading things before posting them. This was one of your articles you post in rebuttal to AC's claim. What is wrong about the rate the article states?
Quote from: stephendare on September 10, 2015, 11:06:20 AM
Once you separate latins from being counted as both black and white in the crime statistics, the difference in arrests between black and white is actually 2.5. not 7. not 8.
Keep in mind that those are arrests, not convictions.
http://c0.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/charleston-shooting-obama-race-crime-statistics.jpg
Is this the basis for your calculation of 2.5?
Quote from: stephendare on September 10, 2015, 11:06:20 AM
Once you separate latins from being counted as both black and white in the crime statistics, the difference in arrests between black and white is actually 2.5. not 7. not 8.
Keep in mind that those are arrests, not convictions.
Regardless, throw out all these numbers. If thats just concerning arrests who cares, its all about convictions right? What about the poor black male that's arrested by racist white cops? Or convicted by racists right-wing judges and juries? Blacks are arrested more for murders than whites. Can we agree on that?
What can be deduced (if anything) from that information?
Wheres the beef? Anything can be spun, especially on this site. But I digress...
IMO a wall wouldnt do much to solve crime in Riverside.
Quote from: stephendare on September 10, 2015, 11:06:20 AM
Once you separate latins from being counted as both black and white in the crime statistics, the difference in arrests between black and white is actually 2.5. not 7. not 8.
Keep in mind that those are arrests, not convictions.
Most Latino perpetrators are counted as white (I think it was estimated as something like 90% of them). FBI crime stats only had categories for white, black & other under the offender, but had a slot for Hispanic under victim.
This may have changed recently. I have no idea. I believe I read somewhere it did though. If it did, that would mean white crime went down, black stats generally stayed the same.
However the numbers are put together, blacks generally do have higher crime stats overall. How much depends on how you look at the numbers. If its across the board, its not horrible. If its by race/population, then yeah its pretty bad.
There's a lot of factors in play arriving at those numbers. Some of it is probably stereotyping by police. I think a larger part of it is poverty, mixed with a high density urban environment, along with single parent households. These stats to me are the most shocking & I believe the breakdown of the family unit within the black community is something that more people should be concerned with when talking about this stuff instead of jumping on the hate train. All of those factors put together can have a LOT of bad consequences.
In the mid 1960s, single parent households in the black community were at around 30%. Now its close to 70%. Whites have risen as well (5% then to around 20% now). But the former is a huge huge leap.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 10, 2015, 06:14:53 PM
In the mid 1960s, single parent households in the black community were at around 30%. Now its close to 70%. Whites have risen as well (5% then to around 20% now). But the former is a huge huge leap.
If single-parent households are a cause crime, then crime should be going up across the board. It is not. Crime has been going down since the 90s.
(http://www.childtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/75_fig1.jpg)
Quote from: stephendare on September 10, 2015, 11:06:20 AM
Once you separate latins from being counted as both black and white in the crime statistics, the difference in arrests between black and white is actually 2.5. not 7. not 8.
Keep in mind that those are arrests, not convictions.
So you're not going to post your calculations, and source data, for your claim of 2.5?
Quote from: finehoe on September 11, 2015, 06:28:41 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on September 10, 2015, 06:14:53 PM
In the mid 1960s, single parent households in the black community were at around 30%. Now its close to 70%. Whites have risen as well (5% then to around 20% now). But the former is a huge huge leap.
If single-parent households are a cause crime, then crime should be going up across the board. It is not. Crime has been going down since the 90s.
As if a person growing up without a dad were the only factor in crime. That'd be pretty easy then wouldn't it.
And you should probably check crime rates among blacks, namely homicides. It did fall, but only coming from a huge & sudden spike in the early to mid 90s. If you take that drastic spike off, across the board it's risen.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 09:57:59 AM
As if a person growing up without a dad were the only factor in crime. That'd be pretty easy then wouldn't it.
Nobody said anything about it being the "only" factor, but it is pretty clear any correlation is pretty weak.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 09:57:59 AM
And you should probably check crime rates among blacks, namely homicides. It did fall, but only coming from a huge & sudden spike in the early to mid 90s. If you take that drastic spike off, across the board it's risen.
Uh, no:
(http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/m6227a1f3.gif)
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nvdrs/
Quote from: finehoe on September 11, 2015, 10:18:33 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 09:57:59 AM
As if a person growing up without a dad were the only factor in crime. That'd be pretty easy then wouldn't it.
Nobody said anything about it being the "only" factor, but it is pretty clear any correlation is pretty weak.
And you're basing this on what exactly? Some kind of "I don't need no man" new age world view? You really don't believe that growing up without a dad/strong male role model + poverty in the hood + going to a shitty school with shitty influences isn't detrimental overall? To pretend single parent households in this regard isn't harmful is just dumb. It effects potential income, parental awareness, the fact that the sole parent has to work all the time, etc in an already shaky situation. Its not the sole reason but it sure doesn't help.
Quote from: finehoe on September 11, 2015, 10:18:33 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 09:57:59 AM
And you should probably check crime rates among blacks, namely homicides. It did fall, but only coming from a huge & sudden spike in the early to mid 90s. If you take that drastic spike off, across the board it's risen.
Uh, no:
(http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/m6227a1f3.gif)
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nvdrs/
Way to conveniently only show the data after the 90s so it fits your narrative.
(https://friendsofjustice.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/homicide-rates-by-race.png)
Quote from: finehoe on September 11, 2015, 10:18:33 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 09:57:59 AM
As if a person growing up without a dad were the only factor in crime. That'd be pretty easy then wouldn't it.
Nobody said anything about it being the "only" factor, but it is pretty clear any correlation is pretty weak.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 09:57:59 AM
And you should probably check crime rates among blacks, namely homicides. It did fall, but only coming from a huge & sudden spike in the early to mid 90s. If you take that drastic spike off, across the board it's risen.
Uh, no:
(http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/m6227a1f3.gif)
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nvdrs/
You are aware your CDC chart only has data from 32 states - omitting little places like CA, TX and FL among others?
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/images/nvdrs-2014-map.png
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 12:49:34 PM
And you're basing this on what exactly? Some kind of "I don't need no man" new age world view?
No, I'm basing it on the FACTS, which show that single-parenting has been steadily rising for the last 50 years for all racial groups, yet homicides rose for a while, spiked, declined and then stayed essentially flat. So whatever fantasy conservatives have about crime being a result of being from an unmarried household isn't born out by statistics. Does it contribute? Perhaps, but obviously other factors are much more important.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 12:49:34 PM
Way to conveniently only show the data after the 90s so it fits your narrative.
It doesn't "fit my narrative" it shows that your claim that homicides have risen across the board after the spike in the early to mid 90s is false.
If single-parent households are as an important contributing factor as you are trying to make it, the homicide rate should roughly have risen at the same rate, but it hasn't. The homicide rate has fallen and flattened at the same time that single-parent households have continued to rise .
Quote from: finehoe on September 11, 2015, 01:54:04 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 12:49:34 PM
And you're basing this on what exactly? Some kind of "I don't need no man" new age world view?
No, I'm basing it on the FACTS, which show that single-parenting has been steadily rising for the last 50 years for all racial groups, yet homicides rose for a while, spiked and then stayed essentially flat. So whatever fantasy conservatives have about crime being a result of being from an unmarried household isn't born out by statistics. Does it contribute? Perhaps, but obviously other factors are much more important.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 12:49:34 PM
Way to conveniently only show the data after the 90s so it fits your narrative.
It doesn't "fit my narrative" it shows that your claim that homicides have risen across the board after the spike in the early to mid 90s is false.
If single-parent households are as an important contributing factor as you are trying to make it, the homicide rate should roughly have risen at the same rate, but it hasn't. The homicide rate has fallen and flattened at the same time the single-parent households have continued to rise .
Lets have a cordial disagreement today Finehoe. Would you agree that poverty is a factor that is very important to crime rate in general and homicides in particular?
Would you agree, typically, single mothers have a much higher rate of poverty than married couples?
Quote from: Apache on September 11, 2015, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: finehoe on September 11, 2015, 01:54:04 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 12:49:34 PM
And you're basing this on what exactly? Some kind of "I don't need no man" new age world view?
No, I'm basing it on the FACTS, which show that single-parenting has been steadily rising for the last 50 years for all racial groups, yet homicides rose for a while, spiked and then stayed essentially flat. So whatever fantasy conservatives have about crime being a result of being from an unmarried household isn't born out by statistics. Does it contribute? Perhaps, but obviously other factors are much more important.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 12:49:34 PM
Way to conveniently only show the data after the 90s so it fits your narrative.
It doesn't "fit my narrative" it shows that your claim that homicides have risen across the board after the spike in the early to mid 90s is false.
If single-parent households are as an important contributing factor as you are trying to make it, the homicide rate should roughly have risen at the same rate, but it hasn't. The homicide rate has fallen and flattened at the same time the single-parent households have continued to rise .
Lets have a cordial disagreement today Finehoe. Would you agree that poverty is a factor that is very important to crime rate in general and homicides in particular?
Would you agree, typically, single mothers have a much higher rate of poverty than married couples?
Which takes me back to a point I made earlier that a lot of people seemed to disagree with - crime is a socio-economic issue (by and large). This isn't about single mothers - it's about single mothers not having the support they need (in addition to myriad other issues).
Quote from: Apache on September 11, 2015, 02:01:38 PM
Would you agree that poverty is a factor that is very important to crime rate in general and homicides in particular?
No, I wouldn't agree. The vast majority of the people on earth are poor, yet only a small number are criminals and even fewer are murderers. Does poverty play a role? Probably, but the prevalence of so-called "white-collar crime" shows it's much more complicated than that.
Quote from: Apache on September 11, 2015, 02:01:38 PM
Would you agree, typically, single mothers have a much higher rate of poverty than married couples?
Yes, I would agree that typically single parents have fewer resources than two parents. But see above.
Quote from: Sentient on September 11, 2015, 12:51:40 PM
You are aware your CDC chart only has data from 32 states - omitting little places like CA, TX and FL among others?
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/images/nvdrs-2014-map.png
If you think that changes the trends I have highlighted to any significant degree, I'm open to seeing the evidence.
Quote from: finehoe on September 11, 2015, 01:54:04 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 12:49:34 PM
And you're basing this on what exactly? Some kind of "I don't need no man" new age world view?
No, I'm basing it on the FACTS, which show that single-parenting has been steadily rising for the last 50 years for all racial groups, yet homicides rose for a while, spiked, declined and then stayed essentially flat. So whatever fantasy conservatives have about crime being a result of being from an unmarried household isn't born out by statistics. Does it contribute? Perhaps, but obviously other factors are much more important.
Those "facts" you mention isn't a clear indication of what you're trying to pass them off as. Its a complicated issue with a lot of factors (single parent households in certain situations just being one of them). Here's a good read that talks about just that w a few studies (read it or don't): http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/
Besides, you say it contributes, and that's exactly what I said so I don't know your beef exactly. No one is saying if you're raised in a single parent family you're automatically gonna grow up to be a criminal. But if we're talking about a broken home vs a non-broken home, I'm gonna place my bets on the non-broken one every time for less likelihood of criminal behavior. I may win some & I may lose some, but I'd say I'd win more than I'd lose. I would think that's more of a common sense view instead of some "conservative" stance as you put it, but hey, whatever floats your boat. You seem to constantly see things as left vs right anyway, so I guess I should've expected that.
QuoteIt doesn't "fit my narrative" it shows that your claim that homicides have risen across the board after the spike in the early to mid 90s is false.
If single-parent households are as an important contributing factor as you are trying to make it, the homicide rate should roughly have risen at the same rate, but it hasn't. The homicide rate has fallen and flattened at the same time that single-parent households have continued to rise.
I said blacks, not everyone. If you look at the data before what you posted that only included the 90s onward (brain fart on your part i'm so sure), it shows after the spike, it went back down but only to the levels it was before the hard spike. And it didn't "flatline" there either. It goes up & down from that pre-spike area, whereas the rest consistently go down & stay down.
What in fact are the drivers behind our certified "Murder Capitol" status? Compared to what?
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 10:40:47 PM
If you look at the data before what you posted that only included the 90s onward (brain fart on your part i'm so sure), it shows after the spike, it went back down but only to the levels it was before the hard spike. And it didn't "flatline" there either. It goes up & down from that pre-spike area, whereas the rest consistently go down & stay down.
If you repeat it enough times, it might come true. However, what really happened was that after the 90s spike it declined to 50s level.
(http://media.reason.com/mc/_external/2012_07/murder-rate-trend-1900-2010.jpg)
Quote from: finehoe on September 11, 2015, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: Sentient on September 11, 2015, 12:51:40 PM
You are aware your CDC chart only has data from 32 states - omitting little places like CA, TX and FL among others?
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/images/nvdrs-2014-map.png
If you think that changes the trends I have highlighted to any significant degree, I'm open to seeing the evidence.
Lots of words to say No. You should try being honest once in a while.
Quote from: Sentient on September 12, 2015, 10:49:34 AM
You should try being honest once in a while.
And you should offer an actual argument rather than trying to do a "gotcha'.
Quote from: finehoe on September 12, 2015, 10:38:02 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on September 11, 2015, 10:40:47 PM
If you look at the data before what you posted that only included the 90s onward (brain fart on your part i'm so sure), it shows after the spike, it went back down but only to the levels it was before the hard spike. And it didn't "flatline" there either. It goes up & down from that pre-spike area, whereas the rest consistently go down & stay down.
If you repeat it enough times, it might come true. However, what really happened was that after the 90s spike it declined to 50s level.
(http://media.reason.com/mc/_external/2012_07/murder-rate-trend-1900-2010.jpg)
Lol, that's a chart showing the homicide rate of all Americans (and clearly not what I was referring to). Nice. You're obviously trying to skirt the issue. Besides, I already posted the homicide rates by race before & after the 90s which you seemingly put your blinders on for, so there's no point in continuing with this.
I'll leave it alone since you don't wanna go there. But maybe next time don't come in with guns blazing & your ass on fire unless you're prepared to actually talk about it & back it up? Or stick to the topics where you & the small handful of usual suspects can high five each other for being "right" & never get challenged. Just a thought.
Will somebody just find and post a graph showing crime in the USA by race over the past 100 years or so and end this?
I started looking and lost the will to live. But if such a graph exists, it should resolve the dispute (you'd hope).
Quote from: peestandingup on September 13, 2015, 02:38:13 PM
Or stick to the topics where you & the small handful of usual suspects can high five each other for being "right" & never get challenged. Just a thought.
Oh, you challenge me a lot, but I always hand you your ass when you do.
Quote from: Adam White on September 13, 2015, 03:24:50 PM
Will somebody just find and post a graph showing crime in the USA by race over the past 100 years or so and end this?
I started looking and lost the will to live. But if such a graph exists, it should resolve the dispute (you'd hope).
I seriously doubt that graph would solve this dispute. You would then see a dispute about the legitimacy of the graph. Who created it? What was considered black hispanic and white 100 years ago? etc. etc.
Did they ever find the suspects?
Quote from: Local Artist on September 16, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Did they ever find the suspects?
Did they look? Were there any Lonzie like press conferences and daily updates?
Quote from: Sentient on September 16, 2015, 07:51:30 PM
Quote from: Local Artist on September 16, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Did they ever find the suspects?
Did they look? Were there any Lonzie like press conferences and daily updates?
Look at the facts and see that most murders in Jacksonville and USA in general are not solved. Detective Miller was shot and killed while assisting another officer with a burglary call. Detective Miller was approached by a suspect who attempted to rob him and then shot him.
:'( Detective Miller is survived by his wife, four sons, and daughter. May 6th 1995. And the person that killed this officer has not be found. So unless the JSO has any new evidence or someone turns their-self in the killer of the Employee of the Blind Rabbit on King Street may never be found. :'( :'(
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on September 17, 2015, 09:01:11 AM
Quote from: Sentient on September 16, 2015, 07:51:30 PM
Quote from: Local Artist on September 16, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Did they ever find the suspects?
Did they look? Were there any Lonzie like press conferences and daily updates?
Look at the facts and see that most murders in Jacksonville and USA in general are not solved. Detective Miller was shot and killed while assisting another officer with a burglary call. Detective Miller was approached by a suspect who attempted to rob him and then shot him.
:'( Detective Miller is survived by his wife, four sons, and daughter. May 6th 1995. And the person that killed this officer has not be found. So unless the JSO has any new evidence or someone turns their-self in the killer of the Employee of the Blind Rabbit on King Street may never be found. :'( :'(
It's easier not to find when you don't look.
Quote from: Sentient on September 17, 2015, 09:15:35 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on September 17, 2015, 09:01:11 AM
Quote from: Sentient on September 16, 2015, 07:51:30 PM
Quote from: Local Artist on September 16, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Did they ever find the suspects?
Did they look? Were there any Lonzie like press conferences and daily updates?
Look at the facts and see that most murders in Jacksonville and USA in general are not solved. Detective Miller was shot and killed while assisting another officer with a burglary call. Detective Miller was approached by a suspect who attempted to rob him and then shot him.
:'( Detective Miller is survived by his wife, four sons, and daughter. May 6th 1995. And the person that killed this officer has not be found. So unless the JSO has any new evidence or someone turns their-self in the killer of the Employee of the Blind Rabbit on King Street may never be found. :'( :'(
It's easier not to find when you don't look.
This is very true. And I have knowledge that in another case the JSO has ruined one person's life all because someone lied about a crime. Falsified a police report which in itself is a crime. Someone placed an illegal GPS tracking device on a car to build a case that wasn't there. And the JSO wonders why the general public doesn't Trust them? p.s. And to the Lawyers in Jacksonville Florida that were no help because they felt this was a libel case and no money could be made from it. You Suck!
JSO is giving a live press conference now.
edit: Sounds like not much is new except for an additional reward being offered.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/family-pleads-for-answers-in-blind-rabbit-murder/36275348 (http://www.news4jax.com/news/family-pleads-for-answers-in-blind-rabbit-murder/36275348)
I have been hearing some inside rumbling from some that this young man was targeted. It is tragic regardless.
JSO is announcing they have made an arrest for the murder. Pretty crazy the timing is on the 1 year anniversary.
edit: The timing is probably no coincidence.
Quote from: Josh on July 25, 2016, 03:07:41 PM
JSO is announcing they have made an arrest for the murder. Pretty crazy the timing is on the 1 year anniversary.
Wow!
This goes to show you that the JSO does not give up on cold cases. Every life matters to them and the reports about the assailant is that there is still another that the JSO is looking for, and I hope they find.
Espresso Rush on Laura Street this morning. Forgive me please, for I know not what I think.
Cause and effect mechanisms permeate both the physical and the mental universes. Every consequence has its cause or causes.
Tragedies such as this -- when a young innocent is shot to death on a street in Riverside and their loved ones suffer to the end of their lives ... are in great measure the consequences of societal conditions evolved from out of touch and dysfunctional governmental and legal systems
Whereas the physical universe is for the most part stable, open to calm observation; thus allowing one to observe, discover, and engage with some precision; the complexities of the human mind and society resist understanding, and therefore are less open to manipulation so as to avoid great suffering -- as in war, starvation, illness, murders, and mass killings. Outside of the physical universe; that is, within society or the human mind, the observer is too awkwardly and emotionally entangled with the observed.
The innocent young man killed on a tragic day about a year ago was clearly the primary victim, and his loved ones who suffer his absence were the secondary. But what of the killer? Imagine this killer twenty years ago, as a young boy. Who would have thought that he, emerging from youth, would actually shoot someone, apparently for a few dollars, on a street in a local neighborhood twenty years later? Was he a killer from birth, or did societal elements through time and circumstance create the killer?
Was he, and are others who've similar circumstances of birth and societal predicament, destined to engage the world of crime in order to survive ... in order to gain some position, some kind of footing in our society? Are too many black youths and men, from the beginning faced with so few choices as to economic survival that they choose in desperation the quick and easy? As choices for survival become scarce, certain actions allowing survival become increasingly probable.
Accepting the killer's behavior is certainly not the object. But if the objective is to reduce this kind of behavior, and thus the deaths and the suffering, there is more to be done than simply punishing and executing, as doing so avoids the real solution, and only perpetuates the very conditions that encourages and enables the kind of behavior we wish to end; behavior resulting in more killings ... more mothers without sons .. more wives without husbands ... more children without fathers.
The man and the youth must survive economically. By some method, money must be gained, as it alone allows survival. How is money gained? Preferably by working ... by being employed ... having a job; and secondarily via welfare ... a method not conducive to self respect and personal growth.
How does one get a job? Are there enough jobs? Having a job is important, as without it, one can approach the desperation of an animal in the jungle. That is, to survive, one might encroach upon the space of others, attacking, as if an animal in the wild ... all to gain money to purchase stuff for survival. An animal, even the human animal, must, by whatever means or actions available or possible ... survive. What animal will simply lie down and starve or die, if there is any way possible to survive?
A society without jobs is a society inviting theft and killings. Because the greatest unemployment is among black men, theirs is the population mostly incarcerated for years for trying to survive in the jungle. The prison/legal/justice system, by way of its "solutions", actually creates policies so that, once released into the jungle, the "felon" has little or no chance to survive in it. There are almost no jobs, and the habit is to avoid hiring felons. If a man has little or no skills for which an employer is willing to pay, he has few options to obtain money for survival. How does one gain skills so that he can find a job?
The need for survival invites too often that terrible destination called incarceration. The youth or man becomes a felon ... then an object trapped for abuse and financial rape by a system run for the most part by mental mediocrities; that is, bureaucrats, judges, cops, prosecutors, defense attorneys, probation officers; mediocrities in part because of a system settled for too long without strong and principled leadership.
There is a glimmer of hope however if the citizen's votes can purge from the abusive system the mediocre, cliche spouting, current leadership. Unfortunately, even with the new office holders, we gamble, as all too often, the new leadership simply bends to the habits of the system. Rarely arrives a leader .. from the president to the sheriff or to the state's attorney ... with the vision and the will to make the profound changes necessary to sway the system from one of perpetual abuse and tragedy to one of fairness and opportunity.
A stable and somewhat comfortable society will give up its "stuff" to those in desperate need one way or another. The young man, tragically shot and killed in Riverside was a consequence of a "giving up". He was sacrificed ... the victim ... and we, the stupid ones, who don't understand the cause and effect principle ... are to some degree, responsible.
Cause and effect. Things are so simple to the stupid. Look at most typical politicians ... and some others in positions of leadership. Shameful mediocrities, set on satisfying their own limited visions for self aggrandisement while cultivating their image of power ... all at the expense of critically needed changes via grand visions for society ... destined ultimately for the citizens within.
I have customers...now friends.....moved from Idaho to Florida , alternative to their Idaho Riverfront residence (which they have wisely decided to hang on to).
Airport area employment- these folks gravitated to Riverside apartment just down the street from Blind Rabbit,year lease while pursuing vessel purchase.
Move in was a bit after the Blind Rabbit episode- their eyes opened; realization over Riverside crime,discussions with LEO...the clincher was LEO knock on the door-stay inside,area robbery suspect on the loose,your neighbor across the street .......
Broke lease,moved to adjoining county for a time,and now back to location decidedly removed from King Street.
Curious, have there been murders in Avondale and Ortega recently?
Quote from: ronchamblin on July 31, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
The innocent young man killed on a tragic day about a year ago was clearly the primary victim, and his loved ones who suffer his absence were the secondary. But what of the killer? Imagine this killer twenty years ago, as a young boy. Who would have thought that he, emerging from youth, would actually shoot someone, apparently for a few dollars, on a street in a local neighborhood twenty years later? Was he a killer from birth, or did societal elements through time and circumstance create the killer?
Was he, and are others who've similar circumstances of birth and societal predicament, destined to engage the world of crime in order to survive ... in order to gain some position, some kind of footing in our society? Are too many black youths and men, from the beginning, faced with so few choices as to economic survival that they choose in desperation the quick and easy? As choices for survival become scarce, certain actions allowing survival become increasingly probable.
Accepting the killer's behavior is certainly not the object. But if the objective is to reduce this kind of behavior, and thus the deaths and the suffering, there is more to be done than simply punishing and executing, as doing so only perpetuates the very conditions that encourages and enables the kind of behavior we wish to end; behavior resulting in more killings ... more mothers without sons .. more wives without husbands ... more children without fathers.
The man and the youth must survive economically. By some method, money must be gained, as it alone allows survival. How is money gained? Preferably by working ... by being employed ... having a job; and secondarily via welfare ... a method not conducive to self respect and personal growth.
You've taken the cake with this one, Ron. Something tells me if the races were reversed, you wouldn't be spouting this philosophical horse shit.
If you feel its just economical situations causing people to kill, why don't you get some perspective & take a trip to parts of southern Appalachia (home of the poorest congressional districts in the entire country) & tell me how much killing you see.
Quote from: peestandingup on August 01, 2016, 11:34:46 AM
Quote from: ronchamblin on July 31, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
The innocent young man killed on a tragic day about a year ago was clearly the primary victim, and his loved ones who suffer his absence were the secondary. But what of the killer? Imagine this killer twenty years ago, as a young boy. Who would have thought that he, emerging from youth, would actually shoot someone, apparently for a few dollars, on a street in a local neighborhood twenty years later? Was he a killer from birth, or did societal elements through time and circumstance create the killer?
Was he, and are others who've similar circumstances of birth and societal predicament, destined to engage the world of crime in order to survive ... in order to gain some position, some kind of footing in our society? Are too many black youths and men, from the beginning, faced with so few choices as to economic survival that they choose in desperation the quick and easy? As choices for survival become scarce, certain actions allowing survival become increasingly probable.
Accepting the killer's behavior is certainly not the object. But if the objective is to reduce this kind of behavior, and thus the deaths and the suffering, there is more to be done than simply punishing and executing, as doing so only perpetuates the very conditions that encourages and enables the kind of behavior we wish to end; behavior resulting in more killings ... more mothers without sons .. more wives without husbands ... more children without fathers.
The man and the youth must survive economically. By some method, money must be gained, as it alone allows survival. How is money gained? Preferably by working ... by being employed ... having a job; and secondarily via welfare ... a method not conducive to self respect and personal growth.
You've taken the cake with this one, Ron. Something tells me if the races were reversed, you wouldn't be spouting this philosophical horse shit.
If you feel its just economical situations causing people to kill, why don't you get some perspective & take a trip to parts of southern Appalachia (home of the poorest congressional districts in the entire country) & tell me how much killing you see.
Sigh.
Did you choose Appalachia because it's predominantly white? Are you attempting to say something without saying it?
I think you'll find murder rates in rural areas (regardless of the makeup of the population) tend to be lower than those in cities.
There are myriad causes of crime. Here's a nice article you may be interested to read. Or to automatically discount:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-06-16/news/1991167035_1_university-of-kentucky-kentucky-mountains-eastern-kentucky
Quote from: Adam White on August 01, 2016, 11:42:17 AM
Sigh.
Did you choose Appalachia because it's predominantly white? Are you attempting to say something without saying it?
I think you'll find murder rates in rural areas (regardless of the makeup of the population) tend to be lower than those in cities.
There are myriad causes of crime. Here's a nice article you may be interested to read. Or to automatically discount:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-06-16/news/1991167035_1_university-of-kentucky-kentucky-mountains-eastern-kentucky
Are you attempting to knee jerk & put words in my mouth??
If you'd have read (and let it soak into that brain of yours instead of jumping to the usual conclusions), I used it because it's literally the poorest areas in the entire country (and very low murder rates). Something "old man yells at cloud" guy up there was trying to tie in as one of the sole reasons why people kill. Like we should pity them because they can't (or won't) find jobs so they gotta go off someone just because ("it wasn't me, it was societyyyy"). It's fucking stupid & an extremely narrow minded, simplistic point of view to a problem with a ton of different elements (as you pointed out with high populated/density areas being just one).
And yes, I'm standing by my statement that if the races were reversed & the financial backgrounds similar, you wouldn't hear such ridiculous apologist shit uttered on this board, or anywhere else for that matter. You know it & I know it.
Quote from: peestandingup on August 01, 2016, 03:23:56 PM
Quote from: Adam White on August 01, 2016, 11:42:17 AM
Sigh.
Did you choose Appalachia because it's predominantly white? Are you attempting to say something without saying it?
I think you'll find murder rates in rural areas (regardless of the makeup of the population) tend to be lower than those in cities.
There are myriad causes of crime. Here's a nice article you may be interested to read. Or to automatically discount:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-06-16/news/1991167035_1_university-of-kentucky-kentucky-mountains-eastern-kentucky
Are you attempting to knee jerk & put words in my mouth??
If you'd have read (and let it soak into that brain of yours instead of jumping to the usual conclusions), I used it because it's literally the poorest areas in the entire country (and very low murder rates). Something "old man yells at cloud" guy up there was trying to tie in as one of the sole reasons why people kill. Like we should pity them because they can't (or won't) find jobs so they gotta go off someone just because ("it wasn't me, it was societyyyy"). It's fucking stupid & an extremely narrow minded, simplistic point of view to a problem with a ton of different elements (as you pointed out with high populated/density areas being just one).
And yes, I'm standing by my statement that if the races were reversed & the financial backgrounds similar, you wouldn't hear such ridiculous apologist shit uttered on this board, or anywhere else for that matter. You know it & I know it.
I would suggest that economics (not simply "being poor") is the distal cause (if not the proximate cause) of a lot of crime. And most, if not all, street crime.
Did you read that article I posted the link to?
Quote from: stephendare on August 01, 2016, 03:52:14 PM
The real issue is income, as Ron has correctly identified.
Correlation does not equate to causation, i.e. just because neighbourhoods have a high percentage of black residents doesn't mean that they will have high crime rates.
The indicator of high crime isn't race, instead it is poverty. Sadly, though many blacks in America are poor.
here are examples of low crime cities with very large African American populations.
City - median income - % black
Fort Washington, MD -$110,000 - 70.6%
Mitchellville, MD - $109,000 - 85.4%
Bowie, MD - $105,000 - 48%
Friendly, MD - $97,000 - 79.6%
Ladera Heights, CA - $97,000 - 73.7%
Hillcrest, NY - 96,000 - 55.8%
Kettering, MD - 89,000 - 92.1 %
Elmont, NY - $85,000 - 45.5%
Wheatley Heights - 84,000 - 54.3%
A bunch of poor people living in a region is not likely to be as problematic as poor and rich living cheek-by-jowel. And although Appalachia may be the poorest region in the USA (assuming that is true), it doesn't mean there aren't poorer areas or poorer people. Inner-city poverty can be just as bad, if not worse, than what is found in Appalachia. And poverty doesn't just mean 'no money'. And being black or American Indian and impoverished is different than being white and impoverished.
Quote from: peestandingup on August 01, 2016, 11:34:46 AM
Quote from: ronchamblin on July 31, 2016, 09:49:23 AM
The innocent young man killed on a tragic day about a year ago was clearly the primary victim, and his loved ones who suffer his absence were the secondary. But what of the killer? Imagine this killer twenty years ago, as a young boy. Who would have thought that he, emerging from youth, would actually shoot someone, apparently for a few dollars, on a street in a local neighborhood twenty years later? Was he a killer from birth, or did societal elements through time and circumstance create the killer?
Was he, and are others who've similar circumstances of birth and societal predicament, destined to engage the world of crime in order to survive ... in order to gain some position, some kind of footing in our society? Are too many black youths and men, from the beginning, faced with so few choices as to economic survival that they choose in desperation the quick and easy? As choices for survival become scarce, certain actions allowing survival become increasingly probable.
Accepting the killer's behavior is certainly not the object. But if the objective is to reduce this kind of behavior, and thus the deaths and the suffering, there is more to be done than simply punishing and executing, as doing so only perpetuates the very conditions that encourages and enables the kind of behavior we wish to end; behavior resulting in more killings ... more mothers without sons .. more wives without husbands ... more children without fathers.
The man and the youth must survive economically. By some method, money must be gained, as it alone allows survival. How is money gained? Preferably by working ... by being employed ... having a job; and secondarily via welfare ... a method not conducive to self respect and personal growth.
You've taken the cake with this one, Ron. Something tells me if the races were reversed, you wouldn't be spouting this philosophical horse shit.
If you feel its just economical situations causing people to kill, why don't you get some perspective & take a trip to parts of southern Appalachia (home of the poorest congressional districts in the entire country) & tell me how much killing you see.
PSU ... sir ... or madame? .... I do not know how to address you. An event many years ago ... I recall, as a naive 18 year old, outside of a bar in Waikiki, sitting at night in my auto, seeing, in the parking lot, a nicely dressed, but very drunk young lady, standing ... peeing on the ground. This image changed somewhat my perception of the female of the species, although I've over the years assumed it is a very rare behavior. Drunk is drunk; the mind becomes the slave to the most basic or bizarre urges, desires, or pressures.
I apologize for my lack of clarity in my stuff about the Riverside killing. I thought I would be safe from ridicule, as I had based my opinions on what I considered to be the most profound animal need called "survival". To drift from clarity or good sense, especially while engaging at such a low level the cause and effect pyramid, is a warning of my upcoming mental decline.
I suspect, from you comments ... "if the races were reversed" and "... and "if you feel it's just the economical situation causing people to kill"..., that you attribute certain criminal behaviors of segments of the male B population to something other than their predicament; a predicament shaped by their origins in the west; as shaped by many decades of societal habits, prejudices, and institutional barriers which do not affect most of the W population, especially those W's who even approach privileged economic comfort.
I hope you agree that both W and B males must survive ... all humans must survive ... just as all animals; each, driven by the most basic of pressures, via the most profound ingenuities. Charlie D might agree.
Your comments set me wondering about what your analysis might be; that is, if you ponder the fact of the high ratio of a population of B's incarcerated as compared to W's ... if you were to ponder the fact of a high ratio B crime rates when comparing the B's and the W's. How do you explain this sir ... or madame?
Quote from: ronchamblin on August 05, 2016, 08:10:58 AM
I apologize for my lack of clarity in my stuff about the Riverside killing. I thought I would be safe from ridicule, as I had based my opinions on what I considered to be the most profound animal need called "survival". To drift from clarity or good sense, especially while engaging at such a low level the cause and effect pyramid, is a warning of my upcoming mental decline.
I suspect, from you comments ... "if the races were reversed" and "... and "if you feel it's just the economical situation causing people to kill"..., that you attribute certain criminal behaviors of segments of the male B population to something other than their predicament; a predicament shaped by their origins in the west; as shaped by many decades of societal habits, prejudices, and institutional barriers which do not affect most of the W population, especially those W's who even approach privileged economic comfort.
I hope you agree that both W and B males must survive ... all humans must survive ... just as all animals; each, driven by the most basic of pressures, via the most profound ingenuities. Charlie D might agree.
Your comments set me wondering about what your analysis might be; that is, if you ponder the fact of the high ratio of a population of B's incarcerated as compared to W's ... if you were to ponder the fact of a high ratio B crime rates when comparing the B's and the W's. How do you explain this sir ... or madame?
Its pretty simple really. Every man (or woman) who is an adult is responsible for his/her own actions, period. Once you start cherry picking & the "they're this way because of this thing or that", you start getting into a whole nother realm of logic/apologist rhetoric. Which then leads to the notion that we're all in fact not equal (which is racist itself). So which is it, Ron? Are we equal or are we different??
And since you brought up how some of these people are forgotten job wise, you're a business owner. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is & hire some troubled black youth instead of the hippie white chicks I see in your shop??
Ron, I tend to like those hippie white chicks! Please do not replace as PSU stated above.
thanks!
Oops ... I failed to post it properly, and lost it. I will attempt to duplicate what I had written.
Actually PSU, I currently have as employees two black males of the species, and two black females. I attempted several months ago to hire another black male, but, after working one day, he felt uncomfortable apparently, and never showed up again. I was disappointed. I am looking into hiring another black male soon .. depends.
Also, PSU ... you left yourself wide open for a brutal response from me .. in what seems like the beginning of a fun chess game. But .... Don't worry, I shall be gentle. :) Must get back to work.
And actually Camarocane, the recent black chic hired is quite effective ... very sharp ... and only about 18 or 19 y.o. She and her mother had been a customer for years at the downtown store. I think she will work out well.
Quote from: ronchamblin on August 05, 2016, 01:30:26 PM
Oops ... I failed to post it properly, and lost it. I will attempt to duplicate what I had written.
Actually PSU, I currently have as employees two black males of the species, and two black females. I attempted several months ago to hire another black male, but, after working one day, he felt uncomfortable apparently, and never showed up again. I was disappointed. I am looking into hiring another black male soon .. depends.
Also, PSU ... you left yourself wide open for a brutal response from me .. in what seems like the beginning of a fun chess game. But .... Don't worry, I shall be gentle. :) Must get back to work.
And actually Camarocane, the recent black chic hired is quite effective ... very sharp ... and only about 18 or 19 y.o. She and her mother had been a customer for years at the downtown store. I think she will work out well.
This must be a new development then. And I commend you on hiring outside the normal range of what I've seen there in the past for so many years. But black doesn't automatically = "troubled", which is what I said. Just saying, its real easy to talk about it until you actually follow through with it & have to deal with someone who might be on drugs, doesn't show up on time, loss prevention, etc & your business suffers for it. And that's for black, white, whatever. My point is you'd be trying to fix issues deep seeded from many other things, not just "no job" (if only it were THAT simple). I've got plenty of scum bag cousins who are white as snow from similar situations, I've tried to help, offered them a place to stay, told them how to go about getting out of their ruts, etc & I'll tell you right now I wouldn't hire them either. Some people you just can't fix because of who they are, how they were raised, and a bunch of other things.
And I'm a big boy so you don't have to be gentle. I can take it. Come at me bro. ;)
PSU. Thank you, as you've given clues that you are a male of the species, so I can refer to you as "Sir". Also, there are further clues that you are a white male of the species ... a condition which, after some consideration, still allows me to refer to you as "sir". :D
In the interest of simplicity, so as to improve understanding, I propose an analogy of slopes or mountains ... to the peak of which both colors of the species must ascend in order not only to survive economically, but to simply survive. I suggest that most observers of American society over the past one hundred fifty years will perceive differences in the mountains offered to each color ... the blacks enduring too often the steeper slopes ... slopes occasioned with slippery surfaces ... and with climbing gear too often inferior to those offered to the whites.
Of course, there are variations ... some blacks, by fortunate circumstances somehow stumble upon a gentle slope, thereby avoiding some societal obstacles confronting most blacks. And there are some whites who, by circumstances, endure similar obstacles as the majority of the blacks. But, as in most comparisons, the majority is the issue. The isolated success of a few does not forgive the large majority who fail and suffer as a consequence of circumstances beyond their control.
Certainly, unprejudiced contemplation will conclude that for their entire presence in this country most blacks have been confronting mountains made precipitous and slippery by habit and convention. by a legacy of slavery, of prejudice, and of institutional discrimination by a population of whites smitten with the offending reality of raw racism.
Survival is utmost in the mind of any animal PSU. When survival by the acceptable and proper means is very difficult, to the extent that it is almost impossible, the animal, whether human or not, whether black or white ... becomes desperate, and will be forced to survive by the most creative, horrendous, and absurd means possible.
Therefore it would behoove any entities in control of the societal mountains, to create and maneuver societal infrastructures so as to offer to all segments of the population, both black and white ... mountains having the same slopes, the same textures ... and with the same offering of climbing gear with which to ascend. Until this distribution of fairness is achieved within reason, until an economy having jobs is created, until the "justice/prison/probation/release" system is maneuvered to sanity and fairness, society should not be overly offended or confounded by the high rates of crime, the robberies, the burglaries by this segment of our population.
But PSU ... if you've not been agreeable to the assignment of societal or environmental conditions ... the economy and the availability of jobs in particular ..., and the "mountains" as described above ... as primary causes of the creation of the apparent high ratio of the black "criminal" element in society, to what do you ascribe the cause?
Your original words ...
... "If you feel it's just economical situations causing people to kill, why don't you get some perspective & take a trip to parts of southern Appalachia (home of the poorest congressional districts in the entire country) & tel me how much killing you see."
... inform me that you apparently ascribe some innate mental element of the blacks as being a cause of the apparent higher rates of criminal activity of this segment of the population. Do I interpret correctly sir? ... that is, please help me understand your position on the question as to the cause of an apparent high ratio of blacks in the criminal/prison world.
This does need its own thread, but really is more of BE CAREFUL when you stumble out of the restaurants at the North End of King Street after midnight. In speaking with the JSO cops who patrol the Riverside area, there have now been 7 robberies of patrons in the back alleys as they made their way to their cars. The robber has stolen the cell phones, cash, anything of value.
The area is ripe with criminals who see the area as an opportunity. Don't be a victim, make sure you are aware of your surroundings if out late, really anywhere in Jax, and especially those areas that are popular with lots of people.
QuoteIts one criminal and he apparently lives in Avondale.
Yeah, that's not what the officer said yesterday at the opening of the new Riverside park, where you were sorely missed.