The Florida Times-Union editorial board endorsed Lenny Curry. They endorsed Bill Bishop in the runoff.
Quote
Times-Union Editorial Board endorsement: Lenny Curry should be Jacksonville's next mayor
By Times-Union Editorial Tue, May 5, 2015 @ 4:04 pm | updated Tue, May 5, 2015 @ 7:51 pm
Lenny Curry has the financial and management background to lead Jacksonville out of its fiscal morass.
Four years ago, the Times-Union endorsed Alvin Brown for mayor.
He wasn't our first choice; Audrey Moran was.
But in the runoff, Mike Hogan conducted such a poor campaign that we could not endorse him. This time we endorsed Bill Bishop in the first election, but he did not make the runoff. That's where the similarity ends.
Brown is not the same candidate he was four years ago. He has a record, and that record is not strong enough.
The mayor got off to a bad start with this newspaper. The Times-Union was forced to sue in order to obtain public records under state law. And Editor Frank Denton sued over private meetings for pension negotiations that invalidated an agreement made behind closed doors.
Brown says he has learned his lesson and will operate in the open from now on. Nevertheless, it appears he either accepted bad advice or has a closed mind. Those are not good characteristics for a CEO.
On the plus side, Brown has been a willing cheerleader for the city, a ready speaker at public meetings and a seemingly tireless campaigner during his administration.
Public-private partnerships have been built under Brown.
Brown responded to editorial page projects on blight in Jacksonville by willingly engaging his administration. And he found a nonprofit to lead redevelopment of Hogans Creek.
LEADERSHIP ISSUES
But look back at two of the major issues involving the city — police and fire pensions and dredging the port — and Brown has turned over much of the work to task forces.
Now he is ready to have a study of discrimination under the city's Human Rights Ordinance. This issue isn't that complicated. Just place LGBT people under the city's current Human Rights Ordinance and, bingo, Jacksonville would no longer be one of the few major cities without these protections.
A leadership deficit has been a constant refrain during the Brown administration. It is no accident that City Council has never been so powerful.
Under Brown, city finances have been chaotic and erratic.
Recent budgets have been so poorly crafted that City Council has been forced to do the heavy lifting.
One Brown budget with a crude 14 percent across-the-board cut required a property tax increase from City Council rather than laying off police officers and closing libraries. Another Brown budget erred in the opposite extreme with spending increases funded with debt on a debt-loaded city.
On a related issue, City Council had to set up a special committee to untangle capital improvement plan funds.
Careful selection of key aides is a CEO's first duty, but Brown put together a staff that has underperformed for both him and the city.
Brown admitted in a meeting with the Times-Union editorial board that he would make major changes in his staff in a second term. He also said a major mistake was accepting bad legal advice from former General Counsel Cindy Laquidara involving private meetings to negotiate pension benefits.
FINANCE, STAFFING ARE KEYS
Both of these Brown weaknesses — finances and staffing — are Lenny Curry's strengths. He built a company based on those skills.
Especially in this era of budgetary stress, Curry's financial acumen would be timely and useful.
Curry has no experience running a government, which would be a weakness if Brown's first four years were considered a strength.
We simply cannot trust that the next four years of a Brown administration would be much better than the first four.
Clearly, the editorial board has some misgivings about Curry or we would have endorsed him the first time. Voters who know him only through his occasional tabloid advertisements have received a false impression.
Frankly, his second interview with the editorial board went much better than his first one. Curry seemed more open-minded about most issues and more engaged. He did not seem as scripted this time.
For instance, when asked if he has changed his mind on a major public policy issue, he said several days later that he now believes that prevention and intervention are more important in fighting crime than he did 10 years ago.
That means that early in his tenure, he would have to organize public and private resources to attack the urban pathologies that are metastasizing in our poorer neighborhoods and feeding our epidemic of crime and violence. He says he would revive the Jacksonville Journey, and that's an important start. We know what works, and we have to find ways to take such initiatives to scale.
Curry has led a sheltered life as far as LGBT discrimination is concerned, and he should make passing a Human Rights Ordinance a top priority of a new administration. If he has not met LGBT people who have been discriminated against in Jacksonville, we can introduce him to some who have.
And he would need to build a diverse and inclusive staff to underscore the fact that he would not be a partisan leader of the city. In short, Curry needs to show his heart as well as his brains.
STRONG MAYOR GOVERNMENT
In the final analysis, an incumbent mayor in a strong mayor form of government has huge advantages. Brown has not taken advantage of them.
For instance, when asked for his emergency plan if UF Health Jacksonville is forced to close, Brown listed a few initiatives but no real plan.
The editorial board and Times-Union leadership had several in-depth discussions about this endorsement. Clearly, it was not an easy decision.
But when there are so many misgivings about the incumbent, then it is time for a change.
Curry has the financial and management background to lead Jacksonville out of its fiscal morass.
He should be Jacksonville's next mayor.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2015-05-05/story/times-union-editorial-board-endorsement-lenny-curry-should-be
I'd like some information on the makeup of the Editorial Board....male/female, race, age, political affiliation, etc.
Seems to me the T-U was the only large newspaper in Florida that endorsed Bush over Gore in 2000.
LOL. On a more relevant note, they endorsed Brown in 2011. And now...
Seems like they looked at the record and saw too few positives in the current Mayoral Administration and so are simply advocating for change.
Quote from: strider on May 07, 2015, 07:58:41 AM
Seems like they looked at the record and saw too few positives in the current Mayoral Administration and so are simply advocating for change.
perhaps so....I'm just still waiting to hear some of Lenny Curry's actual ideas...and how he plans to implement them
For me, the two ideas that matter the most will be sorting out the budget and hiring a more capable staff. My understanding is that he plans to implement those ideas by sorting out the budget and hiring a more capable staff.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 06, 2015, 09:53:56 PM
I'd like some information on the makeup of the Editorial Board....male/female, race, age, political affiliation, etc.
Seems to me the T-U was the only large newspaper in Florida that endorsed Bush over Gore in 2000.
I had the privilege to serve on the Times Union Editorial Board during the 2011 election. To suggest that there is some bias or agenda in the makeup of the board is simply not true. I've seen A LOT of the surveys candidates are ask to answer from various groups.
The TU unequivocably asks candidates the most relevant, researched and thought-provoking questions.
^And the same board also endorsed Alvin in 2011.
Quote from: strider on May 07, 2015, 07:58:41 AM
Seems like they looked at the record and saw too few positives in the current Mayoral Administration and so are simply advocating for change.
Brown has dissapointed in 4 years. Even moderate supporters of Brown recognize this. If you think that will somehow get better in the next 2 years, unfortunately his track record gives no evidence to suggest that change is eminent.
For people that are on the fence about Brown, I'll say this: Remember a dissapointing relationship that you once had. There were times when you really wanted to believe that person would turn the corner. They never did. Now, think about how happier you would have been if you had cut ties with that individual sooner rather than later. Life is much too short to accept mediocre results. Jacksonville is much too important to not be the very best it can be.
QuoteFor me, the two ideas that matter the most will be sorting out the budget and hiring a more capable staff. My understanding is that he plans to implement those ideas by sorting out the budget and hiring a more capable staff.
One on one, I've never walked away with a good impression of Alvin Brown. Not suprisingly, his (in)actions on many issues and staffing decisions reflected real-life personifications of these impressions. I want him to succeed because that means Jacksonville will succeed. That success hasn't been realized.
I've had a handful of interactions with Lenny Curry over the last few months, and my unwavering impression of him is one of a very capable person that will demand and achieve results. I'm tired of getting press releases instead of results.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 07, 2015, 08:39:12 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 06, 2015, 09:53:56 PM
I'd like some information on the makeup of the Editorial Board....male/female, race, age, political affiliation, etc.
Seems to me the T-U was the only large newspaper in Florida that endorsed Bush over Gore in 2000.
I had the privilege to serve on the Times Union Editorial Board during the 2011 election. To suggest that there is some bias or agenda in the makeup of the board is simply not true. I've seen A LOT of the surveys candidates are ask to answer from various groups.
The TU unequivocably asks candidates the most relevant, researched and thought-provoking questions.
Their survey may be excellent, the best one out there, etc., but the Editorial Board is very conservative.
QuoteLife is much too short to accept mediocre results.
Better four years of mediocrity than eight.
Quote from: stephendare on May 07, 2015, 10:39:23 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2015, 08:48:16 AM
^And the same board also endorsed Alvin in 2011.
Actually it isn't. Different people different dynamics. And its a hold your nose endorsement at best, lol.
If so, it matters even less who they endorsed for president 15 years ago.
Quoteyour single sit down encounter with Brown
I've had many encounters personally with Mayor Brown, going back to JU events before the 2011 election. To suggest otherwise is 100% false.
QuoteI would just concentrate on the fact that the most important branch of government (special events) has a person who you don't like working with.
There are several people on staff that I don't find particularly helpful nor effective. No reason to paint that picture any differently.
'
Attacking me because of my poor experiences with many levels of this administration is a pretty pathetic retort, quite frankly.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 07, 2015, 08:39:12 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 06, 2015, 09:53:56 PM
I'd like some information on the makeup of the Editorial Board....male/female, race, age, political affiliation, etc.
Seems to me the T-U was the only large newspaper in Florida that endorsed Bush over Gore in 2000.
I had the privilege to serve on the Times Union Editorial Board during the 2011 election. To suggest that there is some bias or agenda in the makeup of the board is simply not true. I've seen A LOT of the surveys candidates are ask to answer from various groups.
The TU unequivocably asks candidates the most relevant, researched and thought-provoking questions.
Are you saying that the editorial board doesn't editorialize? Editorial boards exist for the sake of their bias.
That bias and how it is articulated is what makes or takes away the credibility of an editorial board... for me anyway.
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 11:04:09 AM
QuoteLife is much too short to accept mediocre results.
Better four years of mediocrity than eight.
BINGO! 8)
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 11:04:09 AM
QuoteLife is much too short to accept mediocre results.
Better four years of mediocrity than eight.
The difference is that mediocrity is the worst case scenario for Curry, but it's the best case scenario for Brown. He'd have to step up to reach mediocrity considering how the last 4 years have gone.
Curry however was much worse on the subject and pretended that he didn't know the gay people were discriminated against (despite being involved with several statewide groups whose mission is to discriminate against LGBT people)
[/quote]
Who would that be, or are you just talking out of your ass as usual?
Quote from: stephendare on May 07, 2015, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2015, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 11:04:09 AM
QuoteLife is much too short to accept mediocre results.
Better four years of mediocrity than eight.
The difference is that mediocrity is the worst case scenario for Curry, but it's the best case scenario for Brown. He'd have to step up to reach mediocrity considering how the last 4 years have gone.
No, eight years of austerity, a return to the corrupt developer driven planning schemes of the previous administration and missed opportunities are worse than mediocrity. Combine that with a man in a very powerful office known for vengeance, petty reprisals and deeply divisive policies and you have the makings of a real witches cauldron.
I don't know how any "austerity" measures may be implemented that would be perceptibly different or worse than what we're dealing with now. The budget is a nightmare, we can't maintain our infrastructure, and we can't fund basic services.
I'm going to have to agree with Tacachale and Fieldafm; I'm just glad I don't have to vote in that election because I couldn't stomach voting for a conservative, but I also can't stomach voting for someone with such obviously limited intellectual or decision-making capability for such a powerful/important position. Brown never struck me as someone who is bona fide smart. Like how is he mayor of a large city in the first place? Curry doesn't seem brilliant or to have an intellectual curiosity, but he doesn't seem basic or dumb, and like Tacachale said, Brown actually has to step up just to be mediocre, and I don't know that he has even that in him. Curry hasn't proven himself, but if he can't raise the bar up from that low level, then it can't possibly get any worse anyways.
On the issue of LGBT rights, which is important to me, neither candidate is good, at all. You have a white republican conservative running against a socially conservative black man of faith (I guess both of faith). Neither is a friend of the LGBT community, neither is standing up for basic human rights for all. So what does it matter the party at that point? You guys are in the South!! And not Atlanta South, but Jacksonville South! Sorry....I'd rather shoot myself in the face than go live in Jax as a gay man, but at least I can concern myself with all of the other issues that are important to me.
There are very few cities that mean enough to me for me to follow their mayoral races, Jax obvi being one, but I have never seen a city with such consistently pathetic candidates running/winning. I blame perhaps a very mediocre citizenry? Mediocrity begets mediocrity I suppose.
Quote from: simms3 on May 07, 2015, 01:26:28 PM
On the issue of LGBT rights, which is important to me, neither candidate is good, at all. You have a white republican conservative running against a socially conservative black man of faith (I guess both of faith). Neither is a friend of the LGBT community, neither is standing up for basic human rights for all. So what does it matter the party at that point? You guys are in the South!! And not Atlanta South, but Jacksonville South! Sorry....I'd rather shoot myself in the face than go live in Jax as a gay man, but at least I can concern myself with all of the other issues that are important to me.
Just out of curiosity, are you still against same-sex marriage?
^^^??? Are you confusing me with someone else?
Quote from: simms3 on May 07, 2015, 01:39:13 PM
^^^??? Are you confusing me with someone else?
Quote from: simms3 on May 01, 2009, 10:28:09 PM
I personally would rather be closeted than be associated with the gay community which is more than an embarassment! If Crist is gay, it is none of our business until he has an adulterous affair and lies under oath, like Clinton, the former POTUS. Gay rights is a joke, I myslef do not believe in gay marriage, and I am gay. This is not because it would affect other people's marriages, but it would affect children. I am for domestic partnerships with the same tax write offs as regular marriage. To hear all of you guys get so upset (and the documentary) over gays who do not share the same view as the rest of the pack, you sound like black leaders who call conservative blacks Uncle Toms as if they cannot think for themselves. I despise most gay people and the community, and I am at the point where I would remain closeted if it meant disassociation from that group, and whatever they are saying, I am going the opposite direction. It is no wonder most people in this country are a little queasy about gays, look at us!
^^^Wow digging up a post from 6 years ago when I was still basically a teenager to demean me and make my views today somehow less credible.
-1000 because
a) that's super stalkerish (and you seriously keep tabs)
b) you discount growth people go through in their 20s and throughout their lives
c) you're discounting the fact that I'm at least openly gay, which is not something a lot of people in Jax are able to grapple with at any point in their lives
d) you're discounting that the gay community itself can have a diversity of people and a diversity of views at least as great as any other group of people.
This is frankly the most despicable thing I've seen directed at me on this site, ever. I have no qualms and no regrets about anything I've done in my life, or any view I've held. But continue to save away my posts for whenever you feel like trying to use them against me :)
Quote from: finehoe on May 07, 2015, 01:35:25 PM
Just out of curiosity, are you still against same-sex marriage?
So the answer is "no". Thanks. Just curious.
Quote-1000 because
a) that's super stalkerish (and you seriously keep tabs)
b) you discount growth people go through in their 20s and throughout their lives
c) you're discounting the fact that I'm at least openly gay, which is not something a lot of people in Jax are able to grapple with at any point in their lives
d) you're discounting that the gay community itself can have a diversity of people and a diversity of views at least as great as any other group of people.
This is frankly the most despicable thing I've seen directed at me on this site, ever. I have no qualms and no regrets about anything I've done in my life, or any view I've held. But continue to save away my posts for whenever you feel like trying to use them against me :)
It is how it is out here par for the course. I would look back and see if Hogan was ahead at this juncture 4 years ago, but why bother, when I know Diane is itching to search for the thread herself.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2015, 12:36:50 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 07, 2015, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2015, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 11:04:09 AM
QuoteLife is much too short to accept mediocre results.
Better four years of mediocrity than eight.
The difference is that mediocrity is the worst case scenario for Curry, but it's the best case scenario for Brown. He'd have to step up to reach mediocrity considering how the last 4 years have gone.
No, eight years of austerity, a return to the corrupt developer driven planning schemes of the previous administration and missed opportunities are worse than mediocrity. Combine that with a man in a very powerful office known for vengeance, petty reprisals and deeply divisive policies and you have the makings of a real witches cauldron.
I don't know how any "austerity" measures may be implemented that would be perceptibly different or worse than what we're dealing with now. The budget is a nightmare, we can't maintain our infrastructure, and we can't fund basic services.
I can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Quote from: finehoe on May 07, 2015, 02:12:03 PM
Quote from: finehoe on May 07, 2015, 01:35:25 PM
Just out of curiosity, are you still against same-sex marriage?
So the answer is "no". Thanks. Just curious.
Yes the answer is no. By the way, I went to my first ever Pride in 2009. It was a life changing experience for me. Well, I take that back - I went to Madrid Pride in 2006, inadvertently, with a couple of girlfriends - I was not ready for that in my life at the time. I wish I were as interested in knowing more about you as a person as you are apparently interested in me. (this reeks of stereotypical "southern in everybody's business all the time") ;)
QuoteBut do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Good point, and those thinking Bishop is the one to vote for in 2019. I hope to God, we get a decent woman candidate for Mayor. Bishop only won 3 districts, Riverside and Avondale areas. Nothing else. With his no-support from the Republicans, who knows where or if he will get support.
Quote from: simms3 on May 07, 2015, 02:23:31 PM
I wish I were as interested in knowing more about you as a person as you are apparently interested in me.
LOL. That's some ego you have there. If you must know, I was searching for posts about Charlie Crist, and yours turned up. But thanks for the entertaining hissy fit.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 07, 2015, 02:16:14 PM
Quote-1000 because
a) that's super stalkerish (and you seriously keep tabs)
b) you discount growth people go through in their 20s and throughout their lives
c) you're discounting the fact that I'm at least openly gay, which is not something a lot of people in Jax are able to grapple with at any point in their lives
d) you're discounting that the gay community itself can have a diversity of people and a diversity of views at least as great as any other group of people.
This is frankly the most despicable thing I've seen directed at me on this site, ever. I have no qualms and no regrets about anything I've done in my life, or any view I've held. But continue to save away my posts for whenever you feel like trying to use them against me :)
It is how it is out here par for the course. I would look back and see if Hogan was ahead at this juncture 4 years ago, but why bother, when I know Diane is itching to search for the thread herself.
You would be wrong in that assumption. lol I am actually more "interested" to see where we are day by day this time around.
QuoteI can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Two words: John Peyton.
He had a terrible first term, and despite weak polling he didn't even get a significant opponent, much less a tough race. Curry brings even less to the table than he did. If elected, he would have to do a terrible job to not be re-elected, and even then he would still have a fighting chance.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
Quote from: simms3 on May 07, 2015, 01:51:32 PM
^^^Wow digging up a post from 6 years ago when I was still basically a teenager to demean me and make my views today somehow less credible.
-1000 because
a) that's super stalkerish (and you seriously keep tabs)
b) you discount growth people go through in their 20s and throughout their lives
c) you're discounting the fact that I'm at least openly gay, which is not something a lot of people in Jax are able to grapple with at any point in their lives
d) you're discounting that the gay community itself can have a diversity of people and a diversity of views at least as great as any other group of people.
This is frankly the most despicable thing I've seen directed at me on this site, ever. I have no qualms and no regrets about anything I've done in my life, or any view I've held. But continue to save away my posts for whenever you feel like trying to use them against me :)
I had a small chuckle reading this. And I only say this because your online persona is that of a... to put it mildly, a pompous, silver-spoon fed ********, but maybe away from the keyboard you're a swell human being.
But after reading the quote that finehoe pulled up, I'm truly glad you're in a better place now with your views. Because frankly, it read as though you despised not only your peergroup, but yourself as well. That is unhealthy.
Quote from: strider on May 07, 2015, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2015, 12:36:50 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 07, 2015, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2015, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 11:04:09 AM
QuoteLife is much too short to accept mediocre results.
Better four years of mediocrity than eight.
The difference is that mediocrity is the worst case scenario for Curry, but it's the best case scenario for Brown. He'd have to step up to reach mediocrity considering how the last 4 years have gone.
No, eight years of austerity, a return to the corrupt developer driven planning schemes of the previous administration and missed opportunities are worse than mediocrity. Combine that with a man in a very powerful office known for vengeance, petty reprisals and deeply divisive policies and you have the makings of a real witches cauldron.
I don't know how any "austerity" measures may be implemented that would be perceptibly different or worse than what we're dealing with now. The budget is a nightmare, we can't maintain our infrastructure, and we can't fund basic services.
I can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Maybe you can stop doing the face palm if you factor in all of the aspects to consider when folks say four more years of Brown is better than eight years of Curry. We do now know Browns weaknesses so he is a known factor. We also know that we will be retaining some of our most solid and competent council members with several new members. A decent council can counterbalance Brown's weaknesses along with the potential realization that Brown himself now understands that his weaknesses have put him in this hotly contested race right now. That had to have made an impact at some level. We also will hopefully see a sound and informed individual replace Chris Hand. I would love to see that person be Bill Bishop. I believe you are mistaken if you believe that were Curry elected we would have the chance at a do over in four years. If Curry gets in, the GOP will pull out all of the stops to keep him in office. Anyone challenging Curry as an incumbent would need more than a couple of million to do that. I don't see the local Dems coming up with a candidate that could challenge him and his support in four years.
It's all a calculation and goes deep into the future political landscape. :)
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
QuoteI can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Two words: John Peyton.
He had a terrible first term, and despite weak polling he didn't even get a significant opponent, much less a tough race. Curry brings even less to the table than he did. If elected, he would have to do a terrible job to not be re-elected, and even then he would still have a fighting chance.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
If Curry is anywhere close to the level of John Peyton, it will be a monumental improvement over what we've got. As you say, sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
QuoteI can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Two words: John Peyton.
He had a terrible first term, and despite weak polling he didn't even get a significant opponent, much less a tough race. Curry brings even less to the table than he did. If elected, he would have to do a terrible job to not be re-elected, and even then he would still have a fighting chance.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
If Curry is anywhere close to the level of John Peyton, it will be a monumental improvement over what we've got. As you say, sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
Not so. Peyton did a lot of harm during his days in office and some of his missteps ended in a Grand Jury investigation. Short memories forget that. ;)
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 07, 2015, 02:16:14 PM
It is how it is out here par for the course. I would look back and see if Hogan was ahead at this juncture 4 years ago,
the answer is yes
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on May 07, 2015, 03:07:55 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 07, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
QuoteI can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Two words: John Peyton.
He had a terrible first term, and despite weak polling he didn't even get a significant opponent, much less a tough race. Curry brings even less to the table than he did. If elected, he would have to do a terrible job to not be re-elected, and even then he would still have a fighting chance.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
If Curry is anywhere close to the level of John Peyton, it will be a monumental improvement over what we've got. As you say, sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
Not so. Peyton did a lot of harm during his days in office and some of his missteps ended in a Grand Jury investigation. Short memories forget that. ;)
In the catalogue of my various failings, a short memory is not featured. I'm not defending Peyton but his faults pale in comparison to Brown's. I'm not sure there's ever been a mayor who handled the budget so poorly that the council had to take it from them in the entire history of Jacksonville, for instance.
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
QuoteI can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Two words: John Peyton.
He had a terrible first term, and despite weak polling he didn't even get a significant opponent, much less a tough race. Curry brings even less to the table than he did. If elected, he would have to do a terrible job to not be re-elected, and even then he would still have a fighting chance.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
So does the fact that Brown is in a major dogfight to get re elected mean he has done a terrible job ?? Since you state if Curry was elected the only way he would not get re-elected is to have been terrible in his first term. Seems the same would be applicable to Brown. So since so close, perhaps Brown has been terrible and does not get elected again. Perhaps then not a real problem if Curry elected.
Quote from: edjax on May 07, 2015, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
QuoteI can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Two words: John Peyton.
He had a terrible first term, and despite weak polling he didn't even get a significant opponent, much less a tough race. Curry brings even less to the table than he did. If elected, he would have to do a terrible job to not be re-elected, and even then he would still have a fighting chance.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
So does the fact that Brown is in a major dogfight to get re elected mean he has done a terrible job ?? Since you state if Curry was elected the only way he would not get re-elected is to have been terrible in his first term. Seems the same would be applicable to Brown. So since so close, perhaps Brown has been terrible and does not get elected again. Perhaps then not a real problem if Curry elected.
Jacksonville is an overwhelmingly GOP city, all other things being equal, that puts the GOP candidate at a significant advantage. Just ask Nat Glover. Incumbency helps tilt the scales more towards a balance, but not enough to get it to even when the incumbent's record is less than sterling. A Democrat will always have to work harder to win. Mike Hogan thought the Republican could just phone it in and win, and he was almost right.
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 05:06:20 PM
Quote from: edjax on May 07, 2015, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 07, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
QuoteI can't help but face palm every time I hear, "vote for Brown and it's only 4 years and vote for Curry and we will get eight". It is a self-fulfilling prophecy proving that the incumbent can't be beat. Anyone voting for or advocating for voting Brown for that reason, are proving themselves right and I believe at the city's expense. We know what the next four years will bring us with Brown. We do not know what the next four years will bring with Curry. And if we don't like what he brings, we can vote him out. Change is often good and most often better than mediocre status-quot.
Hey, think Brown is the best choice? Then vote for him. But do not vote for him only because it is "only four more years". Vote for who you think is the best choice at this point based on something real. No matter, what remember that in four years, we get to try again.
Two words: John Peyton.
He had a terrible first term, and despite weak polling he didn't even get a significant opponent, much less a tough race. Curry brings even less to the table than he did. If elected, he would have to do a terrible job to not be re-elected, and even then he would still have a fighting chance.
There is no education in the second kick of the mule. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best you can do.
So does the fact that Brown is in a major dogfight to get re elected mean he has done a terrible job ?? Since you state if Curry was elected the only way he would not get re-elected is to have been terrible in his first term. Seems the same would be applicable to Brown. So since so close, perhaps Brown has been terrible and does not get elected again. Perhaps then not a real problem if Curry elected.
Jacksonville is an overwhelmingly GOP city, all other things being equal, that puts the GOP candidate at a significant advantage. Just ask Nat Glover. Incumbency helps tilt the scales more towards a balance, but not enough to get it to even when the incumbent's record is less than sterling. A Democrat will always have to work harder to win. Mike Hogan thought the Republican could just phone it in and win, and he was almost right.
There are 26,000 more democrats registered in Duval County than Republicans. So no it is not an overwhelmingly GOP city. Perhaps just that the Republicans make it more of an issue to get involved in the city politics on a consistent basis.
When I factor in all the aspects of having Brown for four more years, I see time stopping right here. I see that this is the best we can expect. I do not see hope. I do not see change. Is it all bad? No, but I do not see the good as anything but accidental to this administration and those powerful money people behind it.
With both candidates receiving millions to spend trying to get elected to what is essentially a poorly paid, high stress CEO position, how can anyone think that aspect will change with either candidate? So I looked for some small place to find hope.
I found it with the fact that a new Mayor can bring in new appointees who may improve how some of the departments are run. If just one or two departments end up doing a better job at serving the public, then the change was worth it. Just some small reason to help make a decision between bad and bad.
Frankly, voting for Brown because "it is just four more years" is not looking to the future, it is looking to the past and repeating the same old mistakes. It is basically the same as if you were saying you must always vote Democrat or Republican. Find something you think one candidate or the other will DO better and make your decision on that. Just this average Joe's opinion, of course.
^Except you are not factoring the known political entity of Lenny Curry and who drives him. :) As I said earlier on another thread, I was really conflicted about this vote for mayor. I can imagine others are struggling with their decision as well. We are now down to talking about who is the lesser of two evils as opposed to who has a real plan to move this city in a more positive direction. Frankly, I can see the arguments from both sides. We all just have to make our own best decision. I think discussion about our own processes is helpful because it gives another perspective about the candidates and choices, which is much better than pick a party label and vote according to that. IMO
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on May 08, 2015, 11:00:43 AM
Except you are not factoring the known political entity of Lenny Curry Alvin Brown and who drives him.
The real problem is that it does indeed work both ways.
For me, and yes, just my opinion, when I do take all the known factors in, I still see no chance of change except the possibility of new appointees regardless of who gets elected. We know what Brown's people can do. That leaves Curry as an opportunity for change and makes me think Curry is worth a shot.
Quote from: strider on May 08, 2015, 01:47:04 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on May 08, 2015, 11:00:43 AM
Except you are not factoring the known political entity of Lenny Curry Alvin Brown and who drives him.
The real problem is that it does indeed work both ways.
For me, and yes, just my opinion, when I do take all the known factors in, I still see no chance of change except the possibility of new appointees regardless of who gets elected. We know what Brown's people can do. That leaves Curry as an opportunity for change and makes me think Curry is worth a shot.
You did read my statements about this being a very conflicting choice but we have to make one or not vote? I always vote so I made my choice using my own insights. You of course can make your own but please understand that depending on ones focus there is plenty of fault to be found with both. I have said that repeatedly.
Diane, you are the one who said: "^Except you are not factoring the known political entity of Lenny Curry and who drives him." to me. That means you are telling me I am not doing it right and implies my opinion is flawed. Frankly, it may be but certainly no more than yours. I am reading your statements. That's why I posted. Because BOTH opinions matter to some degree and do so equally, in my opinion. Which means they mean a lot, a bit or not at all to everyone else. But that is the purpose of this forum, an exchange of ideas, for better or worse.
Quote from: strider on May 08, 2015, 03:56:49 PM
Diane, you are the one who said: "^Except you are not factoring the known political entity of Lenny Curry and who drives him." to me. That means you are telling me I am not doing it right and implies my opinion is flawed. Frankly, it may be but certainly no more than yours. I am reading your statements. That's why I posted. Because BOTH opinions matter to some degree and do so equally, in my opinion. Which means they mean a lot, a bit or not at all to everyone else. But that is the purpose of this forum, an exchange of ideas, for better or worse.
There was no judgment in my statement. What I was pointing out was that your equation did not factor in those known facts. My tone was conversational, nothing more. Perhaps I should have said "your statement" as opposed to "you". I have tried the best I know how to say we all have to make our own judgments and choices in all of my conversations. I don't understand your sensitivity to a comment about political factors that was not meant as a judgment. It's just semantics not a judgment of your intellect. Goodness gracious, are we good now? ;)