I had promised to let folks know when and if any new debates in the upcoming runoff races would be. JU who hosted the last debate received notice from the Alvin Brown campaign that Brown has declined to debate Lenny Curry.
(http://i.imgur.com/fL0uFS8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ODb4XDC.jpg)
So Brown's taking the Hogan strategy, eh? I'm sure that'll work well.
OHHH that's bad, bad news. Why Mayor Brown, why???
Now I'm not sure of my decision at all...
Edit: Wait, it looks like he IS going to do a debate, just not all of them:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/politics/first-coast-votes/2015/04/02/bectcha-can-have-just-one/70823018/
Quote from: coredumped on April 03, 2015, 12:58:26 PM
OHHH that's bad, bad news. Why Mayor Brown, why???
Now I'm not sure of my decision at all...
Edit: Wait, it looks like he IS going to do a debate, just not all of them:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/politics/first-coast-votes/2015/04/02/bectcha-can-have-just-one/70823018/
Good find. Thanks for sharing this. :)
He's going to do ONE debate out of the scheduled four. Nice, real nice.
It's a foolish move. Looks like he is backing down from Curry. Shows weakness. Who is advising him on this stuff? Lord have mercy.
Quote"I regret to inform you that the Alvin Brown Campaign will not be able to participate in your proposed debate. Best wishes, Joshua Karp (communications director of the Florida Democratic Party)."
On March 25 -- the day after the fist election -- Curry told Kent Justice, moderator of the JU/WJXT events, that he would debate Brown anywhere at any time.
"With a record of failure, horrific crime increases, and financial disarray, it's no wonder Alvin Brown is afraid to stand up and defend his first term," Curry's communication consultant, Brian Hughes said in a statement Friday morning. "Just 4 years ago, Alvin Brown touted the importance of debates and public events with both candidates. Now, Brown wants to hide from voters and rejects public forums that would allow voters to understand the choice facing Jacksonville. It's disrespectful to Jacksonville's families."
JU is proposing the going forward with mayoral debate, scheduled to air May 12 on Channel 4, as an hour of questions for Curry.
No problem give Curry an extra hour for free air time to answer questions. Good PR. Looks like the shakeup at the top of Brown's campaign had something to do with it....reading between the lines.
I like that quote, "It's disrespectful to Jacksonville's families" - Amen!
What debates? They only thing either of them did in the previous debate was to spout platitudes and vague generalities. That's not a debate, just a campaign speech interrupted by questions.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 03, 2015, 01:58:27 PM
Quote"I regret to inform you that the Alvin Brown Campaign will not be able to participate in your proposed debate. Best wishes, Joshua Karp (communications director of the Florida Democratic Party)."
On March 25 -- the day after the fist election -- Curry told Kent Justice, moderator of the JU/WJXT events, that he would debate Brown anywhere at any time.
"With a record of failure, horrific crime increases, and financial disarray, it's no wonder Alvin Brown is afraid to stand up and defend his first term," Curry's communication consultant, Brian Hughes said in a statement Friday morning. "Just 4 years ago, Alvin Brown touted the importance of debates and public events with both candidates. Now, Brown wants to hide from voters and rejects public forums that would allow voters to understand the choice facing Jacksonville. It's disrespectful to Jacksonville's families."
JU is proposing the going forward with mayoral debate, scheduled to air May 12 on Channel 4, as an hour of questions for Curry.
No problem give Curry an extra hour for free air time to answer questions. Good PR. Looks like the shakeup at the top of Brown's campaign had something to do with it....reading between the lines.
I like that quote, "It's disrespectful to Jacksonville's families" - Amen!
What's bizarre is this is JU who Brown tout's as one of the organizations he is most thankful to have belonged to. Something changed apparently. This on the heels of Rick Scott coming out in support of Curry after Brown making repeated statements about how well they worked together and the relationship they had founded. It's all rather scary to me because with all of his faults, Brown if re-elected is a known quantity and one we would have to deal with for four more years at the most with a competent council. An untested GOP hardliner with absolutely no experience backed by the likes of Scott, Perry and worse is a scary thought especially knowing we would be stuck with that person for eight years. With the likes of Lumb in the mix, the pressure that would be put on republican councilmembers to fall into line with the will of Curry would be immense and a real problem to the functioning of our city.
QuoteAn untested GOP hardliner with absolutely no experience
Which is obviously different from the "I'm With Alvin" campaign that got an untested person elected who was supported by the Clintons and whom has a wonderful track record to date.
If we're all about change, then the obvious choice is Curry, he has no track record in Jacksonville, same as Brown 4 years ago, and clearly deserves more of a chance. We know what we get with Brown, why not try with an unknown, same as people did 4 years ago?
Does anyone else feel like WJXT ch4 is doing a bit of "shady reporting" by not including all the facts? I think they should say that Brown declined THEIR invitation to debate, but will still debate, just on a competing channel.
I usually trust Ch4, but this is disappointing.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 03, 2015, 04:55:01 PM
QuoteAn untested GOP hardliner with absolutely no experience
Which is obviously different from the "I'm With Alvin" campaign that got an untested person elected who was supported by the Clintons and whom has a wonderful track record to date.
If we're all about change, then the obvious choice is Curry, he has no track record in Jacksonville, same as Brown 4 years ago, and clearly deserves more of a chance. We know what we get with Brown, why not try with an unknown, same as people did 4 years ago?
To some people it might be. To me it is no different which I why I did not vote for him the last go round. Further I don't know that all people are asking for change but rather are asking for strong leadership, answers to questions and equal representation for all the citizens of Jacksonville. All change is not good change and the need for changes in my view does not make Curry the obvious choice. Right now Alvin has got to step up and convince the voters that he is prepared to lead differently and to answer the concerns of voters with facts and a plan that explains how he is going to accomplish what he promises. Lenny is an unknown factor, Brown is a known factor and people have got to decide if they want to chance a totally new and untested guy who seems to be okay with getting ugly if it suits his agenda as well as remaining highly partisan or go with the incumbent. The tone of all things Curry is very worrisome.
Quote from: coredumped on April 03, 2015, 05:40:36 PM
Does anyone else feel like WJXT ch4 is doing a bit of "shady reporting" by not including all the facts? I think they should say that Brown declined THEIR invitation to debate, but will still debate, just on a competing channel.
I usually trust Ch4, but this is disappointing.
I agree.
As reported last night by WJXT, the last time a Mayoral Candidate declined to debate a challenger was Jake Godbold when he was running against John Delaney. Of course Delaney went on to win the election, and he used the time of the debate to discuss his plans and sell people on himself as Mayor.
By the way, Brown received the support from Goldbold for this race.....perhaps he is getting advice from him as well....perhaps history will repeat itself.
QuoteRight now Alvin has got to step up and convince the voters that he is prepared to lead differently and to answer the concerns of voters with facts and a plan that explains how he is going to accomplish what he promises.
Brown has had 4 years with which to stand up, take responsibility for his own actions. Why does anyone believe he can change in 60 days? Where are all the "I'm with Alvin" crowd, the same who asked for change in 2011, but are not happy with the change of Brown, but who are unwilling to give Curry a chance to lead? We want change, just not that change, so we will stand on the sidelines and not vote when in fact we are trying to get people out and vote, just not in this election. Nice
Just to remind all those who did not vote for Hogan, but did vote for Brown.......Mike Hogan just successfully beat Democrat Tracie Davis soundly, so apparently he is qualified to be Supervisor of Elections. Now that Brown has come out officially as a Democrat, perhaps the Republicans can get the vote out and send Brown back to hang out with the Clintons.
I am not pleased with either choice, but I know what I have in Brown and that does not impress me.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/MetroJax/8164840 (http://www.news4jax.com/news/MetroJax/8164840)
Isn't MetroJacksonville a bedroom partner with WJXT Channel 4?
Strange bedfellows.....
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 04, 2015, 09:38:53 AM
As reported last night by WJXT, the last time a Mayoral Candidate declined to debate a challenger was Jake Godbold when he was running against John Delaney. Of course Delaney went on to win the election, and he used the time of the debate to discuss his plans and sell people on himself as Mayor.
By the way, Brown received the support from Goldbold for this race.....perhaps he is getting advice from him as well....perhaps history will repeat itself.
QuoteRight now Alvin has got to step up and convince the voters that he is prepared to lead differently and to answer the concerns of voters with facts and a plan that explains how he is going to accomplish what he promises.
Brown has had 4 years with which to stand up, take responsibility for his own actions. Why does anyone believe he can change in 60 days? Where are all the "I'm with Alvin" crowd, the same who asked for change in 2011, but are not happy with the change of Brown, but who are unwilling to give Curry a chance to lead? We want change, just not that change, so we will stand on the sidelines and not vote when in fact we are trying to get people out and vote, just not in this election. Nice
Just to remind all those who did not vote for Hogan, but did vote for Brown.......Mike Hogan just successfully beat Democrat Tracie Davis soundly, so apparently he is qualified to be Supervisor of Elections. Now that Brown has come out officially as a Democrat, perhaps the Republicans can get the vote out and send Brown back to hang out with the Clintons.
"Mike Hogan just successfully beat Democrat Tracie Davis soundly, so apparently he is qualified to be Supervisor of Elections" Do you really believe getting more votes because of name recognition shows how successful you area? Will you say Barack Obama won POTUS so apparently he is qualified to be POTUS?
I voted for Brown in 2011, I'm voting against Curry in 2015.
I the difference that I see between Mayor Alvin Brown and Lenny Curry is that Brown has proven that he can reach out to the opposing party (Governor Rick Scott) to find some common ground. Could I imagine a Mayor Curry affording the same courtesy of a sitting Democratic governor? My impression of Curry is that he is a conservative who intends to take only his base seriously. From how Curry's camp characterizes anyone and everyone who happens to be a Democrat or a liberal as someone who is in bed with President Obama. While he may rally his troops with liberal-baiting, a potential Mayor Curry would be turning off many of his constituents even before having a decent honeymoon in City Hall.
I hope that the race goes to the candidate who most appreciates that he must lead an entire city and that he must not be a partisan zealot.
^ he has pretty much said just that. During the debates, Curry mentioned many times that he wants to serve all of Jacksonville and then in the next sentence says he is proud to be a conservative.
Lenny Curry says to us that he wants to serve all of Jacksonville but he also writes off his opposition as toadies for President Obama. It is one thing, in my opinion, to be a proud conservative. It is another thing, however, to run a campaign that trashes a significant portion of the population by attempting to turn a local election into a national issue. It gives me the appearance of someone who wants the mayor's office to make a point in the 2016 presidential elections. I think that it would be hard for Lenny Curry to convince liberals and progressives that he is ready to play nice after using guilt by association to link the mayor to the president and to all things 'liberal.'
Actually, neither candidate is a positive for Jacksonville long term. Alvin Brown has proven problematic on several fronts, including promoting people incapable of doing the proper job, negative human blight campaigns and poor leadership in financial issues. Len Curry is the unknown. We simply can't tell for sure what he is going to do, not sure what he actually believes in but we know that some powerful people are behind him.
What is a voter to do?
One thing I picked up on is that many of the incapable folks at high levels, like Kimberly Scott, will be replaced should Len Curry become Mayor. That in itself is enough to make me think I should be voting for change rather than the Alvin Brown we know.
The mayor has changed (probably due to the bad reporting by Ch4) to do the debate on Ch 4:
Mayor Alvin Brown agrees to debate on News4Jax: http://www.news4jax.com/news/mayor-alvin-brown-agrees-to-debate-on-news4jax/32202294
QuoteLen Curry is the unknown. We simply can't tell for sure what he is going to do, not sure what he actually believes in but we know that some powerful people are behind him.
Not one person on MJ knew anything about Alvin Brown 4 years ago, they only THOUGHT they knew him. Running against Mike Hogan, they were sufficiently unhappy that Audrey Moran and Rick Mullaney were kicked to the curb and they thought, yes THOUGHT that change was in the name of an independent candidate who could become a great mayor, because he was unknown and had the Clinton experience added to his resume......
Uh, 4 years later, how many of those disciples would rather know what they are getting for 4 years? Of the two candidates for Mayor, Curry seems the more stable choice. You never know which Alvin Brown you get from day to day.
Quote from: coredumped on April 05, 2015, 06:05:02 PM
The mayor has changed (probably due to the bad reporting by Ch4) to do the debate on Ch 4:
Mayor Alvin Brown agrees to debate on News4Jax: http://www.news4jax.com/news/mayor-alvin-brown-agrees-to-debate-on-news4jax/32202294
It was accurately reported. Brown did back out of this debate, along with two of the three others. His campaign even said they "incorrectly declined the debate invitation" and now they're rectifying it.
No argument he declined to debate, but what ch 4 left out was that he declined THEIR debate, he was always going to do the debate on FCN, ch 4 should have reported that, rather than omitting that important information.
He's still shunning the other two debates, hoping we won't notice.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 07, 2015, 09:50:03 AM
He's still shunning the other two debates, hoping we won't notice.
I honestly think one more debate between he and Curry is enough for a runoff.
This is the candidate who talked about the importance of debates and being open just four years ago, now pulling a Hogan.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 07, 2015, 10:07:09 AM
This is the candidate who talked about the importance of debates and being open just four years ago, now pulling a Hogan.
well, unlike Curry, Mayor Brown actually has a job to do at the same time as he campaigns. So it is understandable that he isn't super keen on holding weekly debates and countless town hall meetings.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 07, 2015, 10:07:09 AM
This is the candidate who talked about the importance of debates and being open just four years ago, now pulling a Hogan.
Which is why I was upset when he was doing none. Now, he is doing one.
Plus, how many times do you want to sit and watch two guys not answer questions?
Without Bishop in a debate to at least try and shame them into actually answering a question the debates will be kind of pointless. I am sure we can already say how they will respond to a question. I loved the editorial page in the paper this past weekend in which the title was Curry's plan for pension reform. He used about 80% of the writing to outline how we got in the mess and blame everyone associated with it in the past, with special emphasis on Brown of course. 20% to His Plan. Of course his plan is basically to negotiate a better plan. Lol. Duh. No specifics. Just he is going to negotiate. Brilliant thinking there Lenny.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 07, 2015, 10:10:54 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 07, 2015, 10:07:09 AM
This is the candidate who talked about the importance of debates and being open just four years ago, now pulling a Hogan.
well, unlike Curry, Mayor Brown actually has a job to do at the same time as he campaigns. So it is understandable that he isn't super keen on holding weekly debates and countless town hall meetings.
If Brown were actually doing his job, you may have a point. And he'd probably have clinched this thing by now. Four debates during a majorly important runoff is not, at all, an unreasonable expectation.
^ and 4 debates you will get. 2 before the first election and 2 more before the May election
I think Curry wants the story, not the debates. He's not at his best trying to answer questions in those stiff environments. I've seen him debate and "just talk." He's much better at just talking.
There were only two televised debates in the First Election. Two feels like a good number for the General. Frankly, I don't think the sound bites will have changed much between March and May.
Sucks that the debates are back-to-back and DEEP into early voting. At least one of those debates should take place before the end of April. Absentee ballots hit the mail next week.
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on April 07, 2015, 10:15:23 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 07, 2015, 10:07:09 AM
This is the candidate who talked about the importance of debates and being open just four years ago, now pulling a Hogan.
Which is why I was upset when he was doing none. Now, he is doing one.
Plus, how many times do you want to sit and watch two guys not answer questions?
On Point. i eagerly awaited the televised mayor's debate and was pretty let down with Brown and Curry, What does anyone think they will actually answer? It's just the story, while the debate holds no substance.
Quote from: edjax on April 07, 2015, 10:15:55 AM
Without Bishop in a debate to at least try and shame them into actually answering a question the debates will be kind of pointless. I am sure we can already say how they will respond to a question. I loved the editorial page in the paper this past weekend in which the title was Curry's plan for pension reform. He used about 80% of the writing to outline how we got in the mess and blame everyone associated with it in the past, with special emphasis on Brown of course. 20% to His Plan. Of course his plan is basically to negotiate a better plan. Lol. Duh. No specifics. Just he is going to negotiate. Brilliant thinking there Lenny.
Completely agree!
Quote from: stephendare on April 07, 2015, 10:30:55 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on April 07, 2015, 10:19:46 AM
I think Curry wants the story, not the debates. He's not at his best trying to answer questions in those stiff environments. I've seen him debate and "just talk." He's much better at just talking.
There were only two televised debates in the First Election. Two feels like a good number for the General. Frankly, I don't think the sound bites will have changed much between March and May.
Sucks that the debates are back-to-back and DEEP into early voting. At least one of those debates should take place before the end of April. Absentee ballots hit the mail next week.
On this I completely agree. His debate performance was so weak that he strengthened Bishop, not himself.
Shockingly you keep saying the same thing. I guess you and Bishop being the smartest guys in every room necessitates you to repeat yourselves for the simple masses.
Maybe if we had had a couple of more debates Bishop could have received 17% of the vote.
Action News says it will put empty podium on stage if Brown won't agree to mayoral debate(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/homepageslider_660x495_scalecrop/Mayoral0408.jpg)
QuoteAfter Mayor Alvin Brown declined an invitation by Action News and WOKV radio to participate in a mayoral debate, Action News's general manager said Tuesday the May 6 debate will go on with two podiums on the stage for the candidates.
Challenger Lenny Curry plans to attend, his campaign says, so he would be at one podium. If Brown doesn't attend, the stage will have an empty podium where the mayor would have been standing.
"We're definitely going to do the debate, with or without Mayor Brown," said Jim Zerwekh, general manager for Action News. "We hope he will show up. We think it's in everyone's best interest, and we hope he changes his mind."
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-04-07/story/action-news-says-it-will-put-empty-podium-stage-if-brown-wont-agree
This looks pretty bad on Alvin, looks like he lost his temper:
http://admin.brightcove.com/viewer/us20150326.1403/BrightcoveBootloader.swf?playerID=2503332981001&playerKey=AQ~~%2CAAACG-Z7hDk~%2CmkwlxmFZxJU1j5JweTbFlORrLvbtxm8s&purl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnewsjax.com%2Fnews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fcampaign-law-fact-check-mayor-brown-dodges-action-%2FnkpWb%2F&%40videoPlayer=4159193140001&autoStart=false&debuggerID=&dynamicStreaming=true&flashID=myExperience4159193140001&height=100%25&htmlFallback=true&includeAPI=true&isUI=true&isVid=true&linkBaseURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnewsjax.com%2Fvideos%2Fnews%2Fmayor-brown-i-dont-want-to-answer-your-question%2FvDNcRT%2F&originalTemplateReadyHandler=cmg.brightcove.player10844607.onTemplateReady&startTime=1428462570715&templateLoadHandler=cmg.brightcove.player10844607.onTemplateLoad&templateReadyHandler=brightcove%5B%22templateReadyHandlermyExperience4159193140001%22%5D&width=100%25&wmode=transparent
Link to article: http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/campaign-law-fact-check-mayor-brown-dodges-action-/nkpWb/
Yeah, that's a bad look for the Mayor. With the margin so close, self-inflicted injuries like this are perilous.
Agree it doesn't look good, but Action News is so butthurt about the debate...
Quote from: coredumped on April 07, 2015, 11:19:23 PM
This looks pretty bad on Alvin, looks like he lost his temper:
http://admin.brightcove.com/viewer/us20150326.1403/BrightcoveBootloader.swf?playerID=2503332981001&playerKey=AQ~~%2CAAACG-Z7hDk~%2CmkwlxmFZxJU1j5JweTbFlORrLvbtxm8s&purl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnewsjax.com%2Fnews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fcampaign-law-fact-check-mayor-brown-dodges-action-%2FnkpWb%2F&%40videoPlayer=4159193140001&autoStart=false&debuggerID=&dynamicStreaming=true&flashID=myExperience4159193140001&height=100%25&htmlFallback=true&includeAPI=true&isUI=true&isVid=true&linkBaseURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnewsjax.com%2Fvideos%2Fnews%2Fmayor-brown-i-dont-want-to-answer-your-question%2FvDNcRT%2F&originalTemplateReadyHandler=cmg.brightcove.player10844607.onTemplateReady&startTime=1428462570715&templateLoadHandler=cmg.brightcove.player10844607.onTemplateLoad&templateReadyHandler=brightcove%5B%22templateReadyHandlermyExperience4159193140001%22%5D&width=100%25&wmode=transparent
Link to article: http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/campaign-law-fact-check-mayor-brown-dodges-action-/nkpWb/
Curry has some new material to work with...
^^ I wouldn't say he lost his temper (have you ever seen Chris Christie lose his temper)? But he looks evasive and his logic doesn't follow, so it doesn't look good. He can't afford too many moments like that.
You may be right, but Jim Piggott from ch 4 was there too, and he refused his questions as well.
Wish I could say it was surprising.