A Look at the Southside Boulevard Visioning Plan
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3189108705_ZwdhdRR-M.jpg)
The Jacksonville Transportation Authority (JTA) has a new vision for the future of Southside Boulevard. Take a look at some of the highlights and let us know what you think.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-apr-a-look-at-the-southside-boulevard-visioning-plan-
Cool palm trees, Vision Plan!
I like how the street view renderings have bicyclists riding on the side of 6 and 8 lane highways, including the last example where they are actually riding between the main road and two separate merging lanes. The cyclist is about to die! No, JTA, the after photos will not look any different in character than the before photos except for the addition of some pavement.
I like the optimism in the TOD renderings, but is that a tunnel that goes under a park at southside and baymeadows?? Can we first put in a street car before we blow $200M on a freaking tunnel?? More pie in the sky plans that will never happen, while we ignore the simple and common sense needs of the urban neighborhoods.
Some of the road and shoulder/median redesigns are creative, like the mega-berms on opposite sides of SS in the stretch near Regency - this would assist with visual and audio calming. I always feel sympathetic to the folks who live in the nice brick houses in that area that face directly onto this 4-lane boulevard with additional 2-lane access roads.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 25, 2014, 09:34:36 AM
I like the optimism in the TOD renderings, but is that a tunnel that goes under a park at southside and baymeadows?? Can we first put in a street car before we blow $200M on a freaking tunnel?? More pie in the sky plans that will never happen, while we ignore the simple and common sense needs of the urban neighborhoods.
Just curious, does anyone know offhand if tunnels are cheaper than overpasses?
Quote from: PeeJayEss on April 25, 2014, 08:50:14 AM
Cool palm trees, Vision Plan!
I like how the street view renderings have bicyclists riding on the side of 6 and 8 lane highways, including the last example where they are actually riding between the main road and two separate merging lanes. The cyclist is about to die! No, JTA, the after photos will not look any different in character than the before photos except for the addition of some pavement.
Now now, there's no need to get upset. This is a vision plan, then comes a $400,000 feasibility study. Shortly after, a $1,000,000 study on the previous study. So you're looking at a minimum of 6 years before this comes close to breaking ground.
By the time JTA does anything non-bus related we'll all have jet packs.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 25, 2014, 09:34:36 AM
I like the optimism in the TOD renderings, but is that a tunnel that goes under a park at southside and baymeadows?? Can we first put in a street car before we blow $200M on a freaking tunnel?? More pie in the sky plans that will never happen, while we ignore the simple and common sense needs of the urban neighborhoods.
the things shown in this plan were visions/requests of those in the Southside Boulevard area...so perhaps, just like urban core folks want streetcar, they want a tunnel
I don't believe the tunnel was a request by residents. That was a concept from the consultant.
Its amazing there isn't some type of streetcar that runs all of SS Blvd, connects to JTB (or even Beach Blvd) by TownCenter, and runs out to connect with the beaches trolleys. I live at the beach and would utilize the hell out of something like that...I would have to imagine others would as well.
Quote from: pears045 on April 25, 2014, 11:23:15 AM
Its amazing there isn't some type of streetcar that runs all of SS Blvd, connects to JTB (or even Beach Blvd) by TownCenter, and runs out to connect with the beaches trolleys. I live at the beach and would utilize the hell out of something like that...I would have to imagine others would as well.
Streetcar? Most of southside doesn't even have sidewalks :(
I like the overall idea and optimism. Money will be the obvious problem and clearly the entire comprehensive plan shouldn't be a priority for the city (bits and pieces perhaps).
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 25, 2014, 09:34:36 AM
I like the optimism in the TOD renderings, but is that a tunnel that goes under a park at southside and baymeadows?? Can we first put in a street car before we blow $200M on a freaking tunnel?? More pie in the sky plans that will never happen, while we ignore the simple and common sense needs of the urban neighborhoods.
LOL...with land area at a premium on the southside, we've clearly got to find a way to maximize space. You know...instead of starting with setbacks and density.
Quote from: pears045 on April 25, 2014, 11:23:15 AM
Its amazing there isn't some type of streetcar that runs all of SS Blvd, connects to JTB (or even Beach Blvd) by TownCenter, and runs out to connect with the beaches trolleys. I live at the beach and would utilize the hell out of something like that...I would have to imagine others would as well.
I'm not the expert, but I'm sure this would be cost-prohibitive and would also be an inefficient mode of transit for most of the area you described. Many years from now we may have see light rail down the Beach Blvd corridor, but until then what we must hope for is better bus service in the areas you described.
I think a good start would be sidewalks/ separate bike paths, and decent bus shelters. I don't know how this would ever happen if we can't even make this happen in the parts of the city that have infrastructure that can support the density. Also, are we going to tear down certain preexisting buildings to make this happen? We will have most of SS Blvd looking like LaVilla
I like the greenery, and medians. Looks pretty good if it can be accomplished.
Quote from: IrvAdams on April 25, 2014, 09:40:49 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 25, 2014, 09:34:36 AM
I like the optimism in the TOD renderings, but is that a tunnel that goes under a park at southside and baymeadows?? Can we first put in a street car before we blow $200M on a freaking tunnel?? More pie in the sky plans that will never happen, while we ignore the simple and common sense needs of the urban neighborhoods.
Just curious, does anyone know offhand if tunnels are cheaper than overpasses?
Very much no. Tunnels are generally the most expensive conveyance possible.
Reminds me of some cool things I have done in Sim City
Quote from: pierre on April 25, 2014, 01:57:37 PM
Reminds me of some cool things I have done in Sim City
Hahaha. I don't even think I could afford that tunnel in Sim City! Maybe if I had the urban renewal kit...
Currently Southside Blvd is one of the most stressful places to drive. I just to work over there and if I left my officer on Deerwood Park it would take me twenty minutes to drive to Starbucks. About fifteen minutes to drive to the St Johns Town Center and another fifteen plush minutes to drive back to my office. Not exactly a great place for a lunch break. Communiting traffic is horrendous.
Southside Blvd needs better bikes lanes. I do like the renderings on an actual tree lined boulevard, not sure why that has not been done already.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on April 25, 2014, 01:22:12 PM
Quote from: IrvAdams on April 25, 2014, 09:40:49 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 25, 2014, 09:34:36 AM
I like the optimism in the TOD renderings, but is that a tunnel that goes under a park at southside and baymeadows?? Can we first put in a street car before we blow $200M on a freaking tunnel?? More pie in the sky plans that will never happen, while we ignore the simple and common sense needs of the urban neighborhoods.
Just curious, does anyone know offhand if tunnels are cheaper than overpasses?
Very much no. Tunnels are generally the most expensive conveyance possible.
Can confirm. Especially in Florida, with our high water table.
Source: I'm a transportation engineer working in Florida.
Furthermore, I'd really like to speak to the consultant (if it indeed was) who suggested this idea. Was this idea to be taken serious?
Also, I got a real kick out of the commentary response from the CAG.
Sounded a little hostile. It's like they truelly believed this vision was happening tomorrow with all these details already determined and the Contractors starting work tomorrow. You'd think they'd be a little more understanding, optimistic, and welcoming to this study. Apparently not.
I drive this area daily.
The proposed flow works only if the retail on Baymeadows is truly replaced by office/research/residential as shown in the depiction.
This area was one of the early spots slated for the BJB funding, but dropped because they couldn't get an overpass to work with out destroying access for the surrounding retail. So the depiction works, but only if the surrounding retail is replaced as shown.
As far as improving Southside in general. It has a couple of sore points in the near term.
Southside and AC Skinner. At 4:45pm Southside North backs up sometime to Old Baymeadows as a traffic control JSO officer holds the traffic to let people out of AC Skinner.
Southside and Gate Parkway. Two flows of northbound traffic come together just north of JTB and create a backup at Gate Parkway. This is caused by an aggressive signal scheme at Gate to support exiting employees of the BCBS and BAC Merrill Lynch campuses.
The report data supports this issue with the numbers they show for volumes.
The issue is more acute in the evening rush then it is in the morning. In the morning the big issue is people exiting JTB to Southside south and then trying to cross 3 lanes of traffic to turn left on AC Skinner.
Personally I stopped using Southside in the AM after I witnessed 3 accidents at Baymeadows. I use 295 East Beltway to Philips now.
I enjoyed reading about the quantity and desire for transit on Southside and I have checked my options in this space periodically. However, unless my total transit time can be reduced, it has little utility to me. 20 minute walk to the bus, and then 20 minutes on the first bus followed by a wait and bus change and then just over 25 minutes to reach my destination. Took me less time to ride 32 miles on Metra when I lived in Chicago. Driving takes me 18 minutes.
But the issues on Southside do reflect the issues with planning (or lack there of) when growing the Edge City that Lake refers to often.
Allowing large employers to build campuses with over 10k employees dump them on small arterials at the same time is a large cause. We repeated the mistake with Town Center by having Gate Parkway service not only the 3 edge city centers but also retail traffic.
When I first moved here I couldn't understand why FDOT & JTA didn't finish the bridge of Southside over Atlantic. They already own the land and could have acquired more with Houlihans torn down and Nimnicht Pontiac closed. With Regency on the wane these days, traffic at that light is not nearly what it used to be.
Southside from JTB north to Beach serves as an AM relief valve for the lousy JTB/I-95 ramps. Until FDOT and JTA can make up their mind on how they are going to configure that old rural style interchange. this route will always be an alternative.
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on April 25, 2014, 03:53:44 PM
Southside Blvd needs better bikes lanes. I do like the renderings on an actual tree lined boulevard, not sure why that has not been done already.
I drive SS blvd every work day. I feel sorry for bicyclists. The bike lanes are nonexistent in many places, and often there seems to be plenty of room to build them.
The bicycle is a second-class citizen in this city, as reflected by our dangerous ranking nationwide. A simple awareness campaign pushed by local media and advertisers would produce at least the beginnings of a raising of consciousness of our drivers.