Metro Jacksonville

I'll start this off by saying that I am relatively clueless when it comes to watercrafts .  I've been casually following the downtown kayaking discussions here for years.  I'm now very interested in getting out and paddling with my family.  The key word there is "family."  I hope to do all of this in a modestly priced canoe.  Do all of the discussions about kayaks in McCoy's and Hogan's creeks apply to canoes as well? 

• I presume canoes carrying 400 pounds will require a higher tide than most kayaks.  Is that something that I need to consider to a great degree?
• Assuming that the launch at St. Johns Marina is the best place to put in, will I have an easy time paddling across the St. Johns to get to McCoy's/Hogans?  Is there an easier place to put in from Riverside?
• Is there a comprehensive list of places to go paddling in Jax?  I've seen the Waterways list of access points, but I have to presume there are numerous unofficial launch points.

Thanks for your help as I consider this new endeavor.  I'm sure I will have many more questions as this conversation proceeds!

A canoe will take little water to float it. Most tides wil be OK.  Have you paddled much before? 

You can launch at the ramp. Most of the water on the south bank will be on the less current side of the river. Water over at the Landing docks can rip through there pretty fast. First timers might want to stay out of this water. Besides that is where the most power boat traffic is.

Jaxkayakfishing.com has a list of good kayak/canoe launch points.

You can also look at paddle florida for state trails. Most of those will be away from Jacksonville.

COJ parks and recreation has a list of city boat ramps. Most of those have places suitable for parking and canoe launch.

If you are crossing the river "easy time" depends upon wind and tide. Just remember like an airplane in a cross wind you may have to point higher that your intended landing point. In other words "crab" towards the place you want to go since tide flow (changes) and wind (also changes) will tend to drift you the way it wants you to go.  Wind opposing tide can build up waves. But downtown is somewhat sheltered at times by buildings from the wind.

If you haven't done any before I'd suggest a rental and group trip. Kayak Amelia has a few of those in semi sheltered areas. Remember that minimum safety equipment(daylight)  is CCG approved PFD for each person and a whistle/noise making device.

Lately I've done a few trips up the Cedar River launching at the San Juan ramp. Be careful of slippery conditions at the ramp. Lots of houses and canada geese.

Thanks for the info. 

I have used canoes on numerous occasions, but only in lakes, which is obviously a completely different animal.  I am confident in my paddling ability (as in knowing how to use one effectively), but I have never had to check tides, winds, etc.  If the depth of the creeks is not a concern, then the only confidence I need to gain is my knowledge of paddling across a flowing river and how that affects the experience. 

What's the best place to get a wind report/tide chart?  Is a report on currents even a thing or does it completely depend on what's happening in the river at that time (power boats, etc.)?

Are alligators a threat? The prospect, however unlikely, of becoming a hungry reptile's afternoon snack is the only thing keeping me away from kayaking around Jacksonville.

Quote from: KenFSU on March 17, 2014, 11:12:02 AM
Are alligators a threat? The prospect, however unlikely, of becoming a hungry reptile's afternoon snack is the only thing keeping me away from kayaking around Jacksonville.

They will run away when you approach them on the water4.  Dogs and small children on the edge of the shore are at risk if an alligator has been fed and lost its fear of people.

I'm sure there are those who would argue that; kayak's are better than canoe's, that are better then kayak's...etc. My wife, kids and I have been paddling for 30 years. I pretty sure Noone and his family have been paddling at least as long.
Noone loves his kayaks, I love canoes.

There are not really many differences in the two as far as restrictions go, either boat can get into water that is only a couple of inches deep. Canoes can carry more cargo and that includes family members, coolers, camera bags, or camping gear. Kayak's likewise have models that can carry a respectable load.


Performance, this is perhaps the most important thing for a newbie with a paddle. A kayak is generally faster, but not many kayakers have paddled alongside a Jensen designed ( http://www.jensencanoes.com ) Clipper, We-no-nah or Classfive canoe. Spend a bit more for quality and you will keep your canoe FOREVER.

A canoe is not a canoe or a canoe, there are small details that will make a huge difference in the performance on the water. Speed can be murdered by the presence of a keel, something you DON'T want under your canoe. It will also be effected by the 'rocker'. Rocker is seen when a canoe is laid on a flat surface and both ends are a inch or two off the ground, the more rocker the slower the boat, but the more rocker the better the boat handles in whitewater. Around JAX and Florida in general, you DON'T want rocker either. Entry on the bow will also effect speed, a knife blade sharp entry, long and sleek along those first few feet makes a difference in the ease and speed of paddling. Seating comfort is important and maybe more so in Florida, (in the summer the upper portion of your legs are toasted) your probably best looking for or adding slide-adjustable tractor seats. Tumblehome will become more important as your skill grows, you'll want to lean the boat to a space between it's primary and secondary stability and use that feature to increase the speed and performance of your paddle.

Lastly material; in Florida fiberglass, kevlar or a composite will serve you best, metal or Royalex create problems the latter with hull shape and former with weight. If your going over rocks or rapids then you might want to take a look at these. A last note (mayor Brown are you looking?) is concrete boat ramps ARE NOT where you want your canoe. Any rock like surface will cut and grind the bottom of your boat into a battle scared wreck. Launch in the sand or along a natural creek bank:

River Oaks Park
New Rose Creek
Christopher Creek
Hogans Creek
Fishweir Creek
or
Goodbys Creek at Camp Tomahawk (which with some work could be the best paddle put-in in NE Florida)

http://www.classfiveboats.com/fiberglass-canoes.html
http://www.wenonah.com
http://www.clippercanoes.com (the Jensen 17 is on my bucket list)

Check out the local paddling club for some fun and a bunch of new friends:
http://www.flsckc.com

Hope this answers a few of your questions, happy paddling.

Thanks for all of the details, Ock.  I was hoping you'd chime in as I've read many of your comments and posts from as far back as 2008 about canoeing the local waterways.  I was also very much expecting veterans like you to sell me on spending $3000 on a canoe.  I'm absolutely a "pay for quality" guy...after I'm sold on the activity.  At this point, I'm not sure how often I will be able to organize a water trip, so I have to start very humbly.

Is this a "not completely terrible" option?

http://www.pelicansport.com/en/products/canoes/pelican-155

I have a friend who is willing to sell me a nearly new one for $250.  A very reasonable price for me to "test the waters."  This will surely be a limiting experience, but is it sufficient to safely introduce myself to the waterways in the core?

The 'completely terrible' aspect of the Pelican is the keel. When you get up McCoy's or Hogan's Creek and then discover you CAN'T turn the boat because your dragging a keel sideways through the water then it's game over for small waterways. This would be fine if you want to go tooling your way to Blount Island to play frogger with container ships, but it will not work in tight precision paddling.

Hold on until you can get something without a keel. I recently purchased a small Indian River Canoe with a square stern for the purposes of 'canoeing whilst broken,' with a small electric motor. It's a bathtub, but its keelless and a boat and I won't have to muscle it into position. They do make some keelless boats but you'll spend as much as you would for a good Classfive boat. Classfive BTW took over the glass boat production of Mohawk Canoes. The Mohawk cruiser or tripper, was a excellent and highly rated boat for a fraction of the price of Clipper or Wenowah. When I lived near the Wekiva in Central Florida my car parked in the driveway and 5 Mohawks occupied the garage... It's all about priorities! LOL! Here is the boat in it's current incarnation:

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20and%20Scenic%20Places/ScreenShot2014-03-17at122110PM_zpsb05db475.png)

Thanks so much for the input.  I hope all is well with your health and otherwise!

ICP, I bumped the thread Exposing Hogans Creek for you. When the weather breaks I have a tandem kayak and we can do a trip Downtown. We can both provide a spark for access and opportunity.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 17, 2014, 12:33:14 PM
The 'completely terrible' aspect of the Pelican is the keel. When you get up McCoy's or Hogan's Creek and then discover you CAN'T turn the boat because your dragging a keel sideways through the water then it's game over for small waterways. This would be fine if you want to go tooling your way to Blount Island to play frogger with container ships, but it will not work in tight precision paddling.

Hold on until you can get something without a keel. I recently purchased a small Indian River Canoe with a square stern for the purposes of 'canoeing whilst broken,' with a small electric motor. It's a bathtub, but its keelless and a boat and I won't have to muscle it into position. They do make some keelless boats but you'll spend as much as you would for a good Classfive boat. Classfive BTW took over the glass boat production of Mohawk Canoes. The Mohawk cruiser or tripper, was a excellent and highly rated boat for a fraction of the price of Clipper or Wenowah. When I lived near the Wekiva in Central Florida my car parked in the driveway and 5 Mohawks occupied the garage... It's all about priorities! LOL! Here is the boat in it's current incarnation:

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20and%20Scenic%20Places/ScreenShot2014-03-17at122110PM_zpsb05db475.png)

True but the keel........can be over come by paddling technique. Bow paddler does foward sweep, stern does reverse sweep and boat turns clockwise in it's own length.

A single paddler can get similar effect by heeling the boat like a freestyle canoer and doing a reverse sweep. It will pivot on the low side. Caution this takes practice. A kayaker would call this cutting an edge. A true free style canoe would not have a keel.

Concrete ramps can be overcome by ingressing and egressing the boat parallel to the concrete with the hull supported by soft water. Dragging the boat up the ramp is abusive.

Note you can't do much canoeing or kayaking without scraping sooner or later on oyster beds or rocks. It will happen eventually or you ain't doing it enough or going to really boring places. 

Tides.......
here is my favorite place........

http://www.jaxkayakfishing.com/weather/hw3.php?forecast=tides&place=jacksonville&state=fl&zipcode=32099&country=us&county=12031&zone=FLZ025&alt=tides&locid=1577&syear=2014&smon=3

The key words here Overstreet, appears to be 'beginner.' You and I could lean into a paddle, I use the tumblehome on a good boat along with the 'J' and other fancy strokes. This little clip will fill you in on just a tiny sample of what Overstreet and I are talking about. You are probably not at this level yet, so don't get into a boat that will demand high skill at the front end, work your way into it and you'll be attached for life.

http://www.youtube.com/v/kPrIAuphWsA?version=3&hl=en_US

Yes, concrete, oysters and logs will mar the bottom, but why seek them out? If I can avoid concrete I do so especially when a sandy/muddy creek bank is usually within an easy walk of the put in. When you get to advanced beginner level you've GOT to do the Juniper Springs run.

As far as tides, is it best to begin a journey when low is going high to ensure the water level is adequate for the entire trip? 

Is there a height that I should completely avoid?  For example, March 29th low tide is projected to be -0.2 ft.  Would that present a problem?

Also, is it just wind and motorized vehicles that will affect the currents or do certain tides create difficult conditions?

@Noone

Thanks for that.  I remember having looked at that photo gallery a few times.  I think that is the first I heard of paddling in the city and I have been intrigued ever since. I would be very interested in going out with you sometime.  If for nothing else, to put a face and experience with the man who has exhibited so much passion for the Duval water and its place in our community!

Quote from: InnerCityPressure on March 17, 2014, 02:33:41 PM
As far as tides, is it best to begin a journey when low is going high to ensure the water level is adequate for the entire trip? 

Is there a height that I should completely avoid?  For example, March 29th low tide is projected to be -0.2 ft.  Would that present a problem?

Also, is it just wind and motorized vehicles that will affect the currents or do certain tides create difficult conditions?

Depends upon where you are going and how long you'll be there. For example, down stream of the Guana dam at low tide canoes and kayaks will likely be stuck in the mud, BUT you can see where the shallows are and don't go there.

Downtown and other city streams there is plenty of water low tide or otherwise. But you might want to remember that sometimes a high tide means headroom gets less. Tides are a dynamic thing. They are affected by the moon phase and season. Winter tides are often much more than some summer tides. Tides at Mayport are usually greater than the same tide at the Buckman bridge. The high tide at Mayport happens earlier than the high tide at the Buckman bridge. Tides travel and take longer to get farther away. That is why you look at tide tables for the area you are going to be.

Wind can control tides. For example a nor'easter will blow water into the river at Mayport. A rising tide, wind blown water and the resulting "daming" of the opposing river current flow may mean higher tide than forcasted. Downtown it may not mean as much as in coastal marshes.

The lower number gives you some idea of how low the water may get. But look at the higher number too. For example when low is a -.2 and high is 3 that  is a 3.2ft range of tide change. You might have a -.2 low and 5.6 high that is a range of 5.8 ft. (add them togeter)  What does this mean? The high will be higher in the second example. That means that in the 6 hour period between high and low tide more water will be leaving or conversely entering. Thus the water velocity will be greater. (ie more current. )

Most fishermen explore a new area by entering on a low tide to see what the bottom looks like and so they can get releif from a grounding by the rising tide. Canoes the same. The last time I got stuck it was  a 4 hour wait. Time to eat my lunch, make a few calls, and take a nap. Not so bad.

.On ..".motorized vehicles " they don't affect the tides so much. They just get in the way. Look out for them though. Some don't see low vessels too well. (canoes and kayaks) Also look for boat wakes and take them head on or quartering. But not abeam.........from the side.

Most of my paddling has not been in tidal water but in short shallow creeks like McCoy's, Hogan's, Christopher or Fishweir you'll want to go in before the tide peaks and out before it gets deep into its fall. Otherwise do you like GUMBO?? LOL! In more stable or typically deep water like McGirts Creek remember a hikers rule of thumb, 'it's ALWAYS twice as far back.' You can use the tides to lessen that effort. Another way to defeat the fatigue is tandem paddling. With two people you can select a flowing run like Juniper Springs in the Ocala National Forrest and go in two vehicles. Park one at your take-out point, lock it up and ride the other to your put-in point, then you can follow the flow to the end of the line. This makes a 6-8 mile trip easy and fun.

This is a great primer:

http://www.youtube.com/v/UGqiwcIDOgQ?hl=en_US
Introduction To Canoeing


Some of my favorite waterways are here:

http://www.youtube.com/v/WCdfzU_JFeg?hl=en_US
Our canoe trip on the Ichetucknee River 2011

http://www.youtube.com/v/mhLzWyHdAyQ?hl=en_US
Canoeing Through the Ocala National Forest on Juniper Run, Florida

http://www.youtube.com/v/jwUYehv1u5g?version=3&hl=en_US
Paddling the Econ River

http://www.youtube.com/v/ipY9uGpk680?version=3&hl=en_US
The Wekiva: River Out of Time

THE CREME DE LA CREME (But you'll have to dodge the fools in power boats that think it's funny to shave past you at 50 knots).

http://www.youtube.com/v/wx3Q655P7fI?version=3&hl=en_US
Canoeing the Oklawaha River, Florida (The State of Florida FDOT has misspelled the name on numerous maps and on some highway bridge crossing informational signage, this led to the 'Town of Oklawaha' misspelling its name, the town is probably a lost cause but to FDOT's credit they HAVE fixed maps and signs that I have pointed out to them).

The Econ and Juniper Springs run will require a bit more practice due to current, technical obstacles, width and occasional depth issues.

Ditto everything Overstreet just said! One more little resource you might want to invest in;

Florida's Fabulous Canoe and Kayak Trail Guide

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20and%20Scenic%20Places/ScreenShot2014-03-17at53044PM_zpsb6894b62.png)

http://www.amazon.com/Floridas-Fabulous-Canoe-Kayak-Nature/dp/0911977252

This is one of the best guides I've ever seen for any state, honestly if this doesn't light your fire your woods wet!

About the only thing we haven't directly addressed is big open water. In a canoe, because of the 'sail effect' unless you have a canoe designed for it, you'll beat yourself to death. Windy days are great if your in a sailboat, don't go there out on the St. Johns in a canoe.

Funny? Last time I did this I had a short run along Lake Monroe to reach Enterprise Creek, the wind was howling and the water was choppy but not so bad on the Enterprise side. Mullet were running and jumping all around the boat (wonder what was chasing them?) and suddenly one came flying out, smacked me in the face knocking my glasses off! The glasses hit the water about the same time as I did, fortunately as I dove DETERMINED I grabbed them and cradled them as I sunk into 3 feet of questionable muck. I laughed until I cried, but it did teach me wind and canoes are not friends. 

Ock .... Noone may want us downtown all the time, but it looks as if we have similar river preferences. It is just more relaxing away from the concrete.

As long as we are digressing away from downtown. Lets look at flood levels. Rivers have personalities. Rain causes them to get bigger and faster. Bigger and faster is not always good. For example take the Suwannee River. It reacts to rain events from the Okefenoke (sp) Swamp in Georgia down to the west coast of Florida.  Kayakers can get specific by location but most judge the river by a standard of the level at White Springs. For example, see

http://www.srwmd.state.fl.us/realtimeriverlevels/realtimeriverlevels.aspx

We see that the present water level is 65 ft. That is below flood stage of 77, but well above a normal height around 51ft. The water will be up in the trees. It will be up the walls of some of the limestone clifs. The shoals will be covered. The islands will be covered or partially covered. A rookie could get caught in a strainer, sunken log, stob or overhanging pocket. It is probably too high for most people. Current can exceed most people's ability to paddle against it. It is much more picture worthy when the water is down.

Another thing to keep in mind with trip planning is that road maps are terrible to use to determine distance on the river. Use topographical maps or google earth to measure a trip mileage. Ask me how I know that but wait till we are around a camp fire. It was a loooooooonnnnnnnngggggggg paddle and a longer story.

It's unbelievable that you posted this and used the Suwannee as an example.  I was just getting on to ask some questions about paddling the Suwannee.  The times that I have visited, it seems calm enough to paddle against the current making a round trip back to the launch point possible.  Is that pretty accurate as long as the water level is not so high as it is now?

Re: Paddling in town - I am mainly intrigued by that because I could load up the family after school and go for a quick two hour run before dinner.  I know that I could make that happen often. Some of the videos Ock posted and the idea of doing the Suwannee are high on the list for me too!

We've got some good 'jungle cruises' right here in the city, what we don't have (Okay Seminole Club are you watching?) are decent videos of the paddle. Noone? Hey man we REALLY need to record Goodby's, the Pottsburg's, McGirts/Ortega, Cedar River, Broward River, Dunn's Creek and of course Julington/Durbin. How can we promote paddling in 'The River City' when Youtube is a desert? I bet we could come up with a PADDLE JAX video page.

Frankly if this were anywhere but Florida, Pottsburg and Julington/Durbin would probably be connected with a multi use trail system. Can't be done here because we need those new lanes (without the multi use trail or signature design) on the Fuller Warren!

Overstreet, OH ARE YOU SO RIGHT! Stuck on the Econ once until I was seeing ghosts of Flagler walking around Kolokee! Then there was the infamous 'BULL PICNIC' held on a RAPIDLY evacuated island near Lake Harney. Speaking of bulls, how about real live LONGHORNS? Yeah, you might want to stay off of upper Haw Creek too.

Weather? They still talk about the time my wife and I had started on Juniper and just reached a 'point of no return' when literally out of the blue came the ugliest thunderstorm in the history of the Ocala National Forrest. Lightening was falling like a rocket attack, it was raining mortar shells! Windows were rattling from Arcadia all the way to Spartanburg South Carolina! We used our bent shaft paddles and stood that canoe on its stern as we accelerated up to around 30 knots. Then as quickly as it came up, it vanished, we never got a drop of water on us and we hold the world speed record for the Juniper Run. The Suwannee is a sea of strainers at high water (trees and crap that will catch a kayaker or canoeist like a colander and 'strain' you through as your boat is sunk, torn to pieces, and you drown).


(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ScreenShot2014-03-18at120142PM_zps43a9c8db.png)
ALAPAHA SUCK

The Econ and the Alapaha come to mind as among the worst offenders in this area. I've seen the Econ, normally a little quiet Pottsburg like stream right up to the bottom of the Snow Hill Road Bridge and 2-3 city blocks wide. Likewise the Alapaha is seasonal, part of the year it is as dry as the Prairie Dog Town Branch of the Red River, the rest of the year it will simply kill you. IF you can catch it in-between, its a beautiful paddle, but PAY ATTENTION to weather reports. Don't go there if its sunny here and due to storm all day in Valdosta. The Alapaha has another danger that novices not only to canoes and kayaks but to Florida need to know. It has 'sucks.' The Alapaha Suck is deadly dangerous but beautiful, between flood stages and dry stages the river flows south to the suck and drops into a cavern under Florida. Near Lake Harney, 'Osteen' area, about 1985, I reported to the Audubon Society that I sat and watched (at some length) a Ivory Bill Woodpecker (extinct?) after he grabbed my attention with a strange telegraph like two step.

A "suck" is where the river goes into a sink hole. Conversely a "rise" is the opposite. Santa Fe river has a pair of those.

One nice thing about downtown, Julington Creek, Browns Creek, Goodbys creek, Arlington river, etc is that they all have bridges or overhanging concrete structures that you can hide in/under during thunder storms. I've done it in kayaks and the center console. Just look out for the bridge scuppers. They are road drains that drain direct, ie straight down, to the river. The water will be COLD and can fill a canoe or open boat in a short time.  Remember too that lightning can strike three miles ahead or behind  the storm clouds so take shelter early.

Quote from: KenFSU on March 17, 2014, 11:12:02 AM
Are alligators a threat? The prospect, however unlikely, of becoming a hungry reptile's afternoon snack is the only thing keeping me away from kayaking around Jacksonville.

Only if they associate you and food. Now if someone has been feeding them (note illegal in Fla) they will be trained to come to people for food. Then you are in trouble. Most gators sound......submerge....before you get close. Kayaks, canoes and people sticking up out of them are bigger than their normal prey.

Of course when it comes to gators there are the orange and blue variety that are unpredictable.

  Great thread going on folks!

  I'd like to offer our experiences on the local waterways, some are just drop dead gorgeous! Our trip logs give gps data and tracks are shown on a map with a slide show of the pictures we took while paddling. The idea is to give some firsthand info about each location and take lots of pictures so you have an idea of what's ahead. Hopefully encouraging others to get out on these local treasures. Here's a link:

http://www.everytrail.com/profile.php?user_id=233228 (http://www.everytrail.com/profile.php?user_id=233228)  Zooming in on the small map in the upper right may be easier to navigate than browsing the trips.

  Also if anyone is interested the river clean-up is this weekend. 

Paddling tomorrow after work downtown with the Jumping Fish swimmers if anyone is interested in getting in (or in my case, on) the water. We are meeting at RAM at 6pm and then heading towards Metro Park. Trip time is about 45-ish minutes.

@bobsim - Great trip logs.  What a great resource for me to get to know a few of the spots around town!

Quote from: InnerCityPressure on March 17, 2014, 10:08:39 AM
I'll start this off by saying that I am relatively clueless when it comes to watercrafts .  I've been casually following the downtown kayaking discussions here for years.  I'm now very interested in getting out and paddling with my family.  The key word there is "family."  I hope to do all of this in a modestly priced canoe.  Do all of the discussions about kayaks in McCoy's and Hogan's creeks apply to canoes as well? 

There will be both kayaks & canoes in Hogans Creek in SPR this Saturday morning, as part of the river clean up. Come see how they maneuver for yourself. : )

Would love to come out (and will someday) but I'll be out of town.  Should I buy this while I'm on the Gulf Coast?  Any thoughts on the cedar strip canoes?  Pros/Cons?  This is a beautiful lady and there would have to be something terribly wrong for me to be able to turn her down...

(http://images.craigslist.org/00W0W_duihdBu6OOz_600x450.jpg)

Admittedly, it was made by a guy selling it on Craigslist...which gives me the willies.  But for $500; I think it's just magnificent.  Talk me out of it.

Seems cheap, I'd ask to take it for a 'test drive,' take him/her with you, let the wife or girl or guy friend try it out to, doesn't have to be long but try for getting in and out while its floating, (stability), try to paddle it with a slight lean like you saw in the how to video, ABSOLUTELY make it turn in a tight circle, try a '3-point turn', reverse stroke, ROCK THE BOAT, you need to get a feel for how well it tracks, does it track straight and with ease? these along with the obvious stuff like holes, leaks, broken ribs, floor boards, seats and does it have floatation and if not can you add such in the ends with some foam filling?

All things being pretty fair and square... BUY IT. A wooden canoe is like one of my steam locomotives, she may not be as economical to operate, but you can bet she gets more tender loving care born of passion.

We should all get together (once I can walk again) and have a group paddle. You in Overstreet? Noone? fieldafm? bobsim? others? Noone, what do you say if I get Lori Boyer and Parks to allow us to move a piece of fence, and make a sand launch site on Goodbys at Camp Tomahawk? Y'all up for some labor, a picnic and a really beautiful paddle? Anyone got a chain saw? We could open another small course, these are perfect, small, quiet, and shallow, perfect for beginners, children and families.

Quote from: fieldafm on March 18, 2014, 02:28:45 PM
Paddling tomorrow after work downtown with the Jumping Fish swimmers if anyone is interested in getting in (or in my case, on) the water. We are meeting at RAM at 6pm and then heading towards Metro Park. Trip time is about 45-ish minutes.

+1

Quote from: Overstreet on March 17, 2014, 04:17:09 PM

Quote from: InnerCityPressure on March 17, 2014, 02:33:41 PM
As far as tides, is it best to begin a journey when low is going high to ensure the water level is adequate for the entire trip? 

Is there a height that I should completely avoid?  For example, March 29th low tide is projected to be -0.2 ft.  Would that present a problem?

Also, is it just wind and motorized vehicles that will affect the currents or do certain tides create difficult conditions?

Depends upon where you are going and how long you'll be there. For example, down stream of the Guana dam at low tide canoes and kayaks will likely be stuck in the mud, BUT you can see where the shallows are and don't go there.

Downtown and other city streams there is plenty of water low tide or otherwise. But you might want to remember that sometimes a high tide means headroom gets less. Tides are a dynamic thing. They are affected by the moon phase and season. Winter tides are often much more than some summer tides. Tides at Mayport are usually greater than the same tide at the Buckman bridge. The high tide at Mayport happens earlier than the high tide at the Buckman bridge. Tides travel and take longer to get farther away. That is why you look at tide tables for the area you are going to be.

Wind can control tides. For example a nor'easter will blow water into the river at Mayport. A rising tide, wind blown water and the resulting "daming" of the opposing river current flow may mean higher tide than forcasted. Downtown it may not mean as much as in coastal marshes.

The lower number gives you some idea of how low the water may get. But look at the higher number too. For example when low is a -.2 and high is 3 that  is a 3.2ft range of tide change. You might have a -.2 low and 5.6 high that is a range of 5.8 ft. (add them togeter)  What does this mean? The high will be higher in the second example. That means that in the 6 hour period between high and low tide more water will be leaving or conversely entering. Thus the water velocity will be greater. (ie more current. )

Most fishermen explore a new area by entering on a low tide to see what the bottom looks like and so they can get releif from a grounding by the rising tide. Canoes the same. The last time I got stuck it was  a 4 hour wait. Time to eat my lunch, make a few calls, and take a nap. Not so bad.

.On ..".motorized vehicles " they don't affect the tides so much. They just get in the way. Look out for them though. Some don't see low vessels too well. (canoes and kayaks) Also look for boat wakes and take them head on or quartering. But not abeam.........from the side.

^great information

Quote from: Bill Hoff on March 18, 2014, 10:47:28 PM

Quote from: InnerCityPressure on March 17, 2014, 10:08:39 AM
I'll start this off by saying that I am relatively clueless when it comes to watercrafts .  I've been casually following the downtown kayaking discussions here for years.  I'm now very interested in getting out and paddling with my family.  The key word there is "family."  I hope to do all of this in a modestly priced canoe.  Do all of the discussions about kayaks in McCoy's and Hogan's creeks apply to canoes as well? 

There will be both kayaks & canoes in Hogans Creek in SPR this Saturday morning, as part of the river clean up. Come see how they maneuver for yourself. : )

+1

@Ock - I've got  a chainsaw and I'm a physical specimen the likes of which you have never seen  :P

Count me in!

Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 18, 2014, 12:03:20 PM
We've got some good 'jungle cruises' right here in the city, what we don't have (Okay Seminole Club are you watching?) are decent videos of the paddle. Noone? Hey man we REALLY need to record Goodby's, the Pottsburg's, McGirts/Ortega, Cedar River, Broward River, Dunn's Creek and of course Julington/Durbin. How can we promote paddling in 'The River City' when Youtube is a desert? I bet we could come up with a PADDLE JAX video page.

I'm going to be at Hogans Creek this Sat behind the Casket factory and Old St. Luke's Hospital.And when you talk about the jungle cruises I invite anyone to come and tell me if what is happening to this urban Waterway is positive. Mike Clark, Special shout out to you. The scenic tour has been transformed into a clear cut. Let's keep the video rolling. Did we have to take out the mature Mulberry trees?

Lots of garbage to be picked up. This is not a fluff site. I miss Vivian Harrell

Quote from: InnerCityPressure on March 19, 2014, 12:22:23 AM
.............................

(http://images.craigslist.org/00W0W_duihdBu6OOz_600x450.jpg)

Admittedly, it was made by a guy selling it on Craigslist...which gives me the willies.  But for $500; I think it's just magnificent.  Talk me out of it.

I suspect he either did it to see if it could be done or he wants to finance another build.  Cedar strip canoes these days are fiberglass/wood composit boats. Basically a wood shell with fiberglass inside and outside. The final coat is marine varnish to provide UV protection. The strips are often glued or stapled/glued together over a strongback and forms then glassed. The boat is then turned over and the inside done. Wood boat builders believe, "Sanding is fun."  :-)

Look for fairness and twist. Level up the boat on the stands. Place a straight edge across the foward gunwhales (sp) and one aft.  The two straight edges should be level and parrallel. I use 4ft levels. The line of the bow and the stern....front and back of the boat should if the boat is level be 90 degrees to the ground. Look for hollows in the wood. Look for strips that are not smooth with the others.........like the wide one in the foreground of the picture about the water line. A few discrepancies or "charactor" marks can go along way if the boat is sound, paddles easy and is priced right.

With all of that remember that a hand made good strip canoe would be in the $2,000 to $3000 range. The key is that you can't get that for them unless you have reputation and find that little nich market.  So builders do it for other reasons.

It looks like a short one. I suspect the best paddling position is kneeling with butt against the thwart.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 19, 2014, 12:46:15 AM
........................We should all get together (once I can walk again) and have a group paddle. You in Overstreet? Noone? fieldafm? bobsim? others? Noone, what do you say if I get Lori Boyer and Parks to allow us to move a piece of fence, and make a sand launch site on Goodbys at Camp Tomahawk? Y'all up for some labor, a picnic and a really beautiful paddle? Anyone got a chain saw? We could open another small course, these are perfect, small, quiet, and shallow, perfect for beginners, children and families.

I'm sure that would be fun. But I have a acute work problem that will keep me a ways from Goodbys.  It seems there is a tall building that needs my attention.   

Quote from: Overstreet on March 19, 2014, 09:53:16 AM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 19, 2014, 12:46:15 AM
........................We should all get together (once I can walk again) and have a group paddle. You in Overstreet? Noone? fieldafm? bobsim? others? Noone, what do you say if I get Lori Boyer and Parks to allow us to move a piece of fence, and make a sand launch site on Goodbys at Camp Tomahawk? Y'all up for some labor, a picnic and a really beautiful paddle? Anyone got a chain saw? We could open another small course, these are perfect, small, quiet, and shallow, perfect for beginners, children and families.

I'm sure that would be fun. But I have a acute work problem that will keep me a ways from Goodbys.  It seems there is a tall building that needs my attention.   

I'm All In
I'll Make a Scene
I'll provide a spark
I am on Goodby's at Camp Tomahawk!

We should all get together (once I can walk again) and have a group paddle. You in Overstreet? Noone? fieldafm? bobsim? others? Noone, what do you say if I get Lori Boyer and Parks to allow us to move a piece of fence, and make a sand launch site on Goodbys at Camp Tomahawk? Y'all up for some labor, a picnic and a really beautiful paddle? Anyone got a chain saw? We could open another small course, these are perfect, small, quiet, and shallow, perfect for beginners, children and families.
[/quote]

  I'm in!