A new plan for Five Points will be revealed next week:
QuoteAshley Gurbal Kritzer
Reporter- Jacksonville Business Journal
Neighborhood advocates in Riverside's 5 Points are hoping to partner with the City of Jacksonville on a revamp of some streets and sidewalks that would improve pedestrian safety, traffic flow and access to businesses.
Riverside Avondale Preservation Inc. hired a team of consultants to tackle the project: Tocknell Planning Services LLC, EnVision Design + Engineering and Flagg Design Studio LLC. The team's study included three major intersections — Park and Post streets, Post and Margaret and the Five Points intersection — and three streetscapes: Lomax Street between Park and Oak streets and two stretches of Margaret Street.
A flashing yellow traffic light in the middle of the five-point intersection often confuses drivers and is difficult for pedestrians to navigate.
The plans will be officially unveiled at Riverside Avondale Preservation's annual meeting Feb. 27.
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/02/18/mprovements-in-riversides-5-points.html
Interested to see the plans for the 5-point intersection itself since the roundabout idea is out.
Hope they do something for cyclists. Between the road & the parked cars, there's no room & you're either forced to ride with the traffic or on the sidewalk. Both of which can be sketchy.
Maybe they could give back-in angled parking a try.
The 5 Points intersection is a tough one. There is just no way to fit a roundabout into it.
One brilliant suggestion that came from one of the public meetings was to make Lomax one-way away from the 5 Points intersection for one block to reduce the number of possible traffic combinations into the intersection itself.
All of the design aims to slow and smooth the flow of traffic in all of the nearby intersections and make pedestrian crossings shorter and safer.
The preliminary plans have some really clever ideas in them.
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 20, 2014, 04:47:48 PM
One brilliant suggestion that came from one of the public meetings was to make Lomax one-way away from the 5 Points intersection for one block to reduce the number of possible traffic combinations into the intersection itself.
That suggestion is mentioned in the article, and does sound like an awesome idea. Larger sidewalks and potentially some greenscaping would do wonders for that block.
I never really thought traffic from Lomax was much of a problem. Merchants and restaurant owners on Lomax would probably go nuts if you tried to flip that block to one-way.
The greater issue is that the Park & Post light gets congested and that congestion backs up into the 5 Points intersection. As with everywhere in Riverside, the problem is usually that someone wants to turn left and makes everyone behind them sit through an entire cycle before moving.
Then I suppose there's the issue that people approaching 5 points on Park Street have no idea what they're doing, and will usually come to a halt as they ascertain the what they are supposed to do. This causes congestion that backs up into the Park/Post intersection. I'm not sure how you fix that, other that installing signs that literally say "Don't STOP!"
I think it will be difficult to simultaneously make the area more pedestrian friendly and gridlock-free. The more lights and crosswalks you add, the more traffic is going to grind to a halt.
Please let's not start 1-waying streets, or place any other structural barriers to the positive user experience that's presently fostering economic expansion over there. It's working, the wisest thing we can do is leave it alone.
Pedestrian traffic in the area his increased threefold because of the success of the area. The plans first goal is to make them safer. The plan should also make car traffic flow more smoothly through all of the intersections but at a lower speed. There is some really clever design in it.
Drivers should learn to move to the middle of an intersection while waiting to turn left so that the people behind them can go around. Then even if the light changes before there is a break in on-coming traffic the turn can be completed and the intersection cleared.
That's what they said downtown. Ultimately the parking restrictions, 1-way streets, and confluence of factors that created a hassle for the end user led to its decline and continued languishment long after other urban cores have since become popular again. So much so that we have town center, a replica downtown (but without paid parking, one-way streets, etc.) that serves the function downtown used to serve, without the hassles and negative end-user experience.
5 points is working as designed, this is only one man's opinion obviously, but considering it's experiencing a resurgence I'd vote to leave it alone. We have a long history of trying to fix success around here.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on February 22, 2014, 09:00:52 AM
5 points is working as designed, this is only one man's opinion obviously, but considering it's experiencing a resurgence I'd vote to leave it alone. We have a long history of trying to fix success around here.
Couldn't agree more.
Leave 5 Points alone.
It's finally getting it's "groove" back...let it lie.
On another note (and I don't necessarily think this is a viable option)--it would be cool if we had a pedestrian-only area of Jax. I.E., making it so you can't drive thru 5 Points.
Quote from: Apache on February 22, 2014, 09:14:06 AM
On topic, as others have mentioned, the 5 point intersection wouldn't be that bad if people knew how to use it. How about some signs leading to the intersection that give some guidance for non locals and people just unfamiliar with a 5 way inteersection.
Yep.
I think it is a bad idea to turn Lomax to a one-way street. That will simply confuse people.
I once lived in a town with a 5-way intersection similar to 5 points. They resolved the traffic flow using traffic lights. Essentially, the intersection was treated as a traditional 4-way intersection, with an additional side street emptying into it. The heavily traveled roads were governed by the 4-way signals, and operated like a regular 4-way intersection. The 5th street would be kept on red, with no turns, while the other 4 streets went through their signal cycles. If a car approached on the 5th street, eventually all of the other 4 streets would turn red, and the 5th street would have use of the intersection.
In 5 points, Margaret and Park street would form the 4-way intersection, and Lomax would be governed by the side-street light.
There was one intersection of roads that resulted in a sharp angle. They installed a no U-turn sign to handle that. In 5-points, a no U-turn sign between Park and Margaret street would probably help the intersection work more smoothly.
I can't wait to see the designs. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents at the 5 points intersection.
Quote from: Apache on February 22, 2014, 09:14:06 AM
On topic, as others have mentioned, the 5 point intersection wouldn't be that bad if people knew how to use it. How about some signs leading to the intersection that give some guidance for non locals and people just unfamiliar with a 5 way inteersection.
You have a lot more faith in signage and the abilities of the average driver. Case in point: I-10 East into the I-95 split.
If nothing else, all I really want to see are some truly "urban" sidewalks. What I mean by that is, wider sidewalks, and no strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street. Go to any "real city" and what you see are sidewalks that are wide enough for at least four people to walk side buy side, and that extends all the way to the curb.
RAP has sent out a teaser email before the plans are announced this week.
Here's an image perusal. Too large to embed.
https://d1wh43egtz3cgo.cloudfront.net/promotion_images/0627/8614/original/Tocknell%205%20pts%20plan%20C-1%200%20Overall%20Plan.jpg
Here you go Josh
(http://i.imgur.com/54opXEx.jpg)
From RAP this morning: http://mad.ly/5de784?pact=20709288842&fe=1
5 points
5 Points Plan Nears Completion
At the RAP annual meeting on February 27, a plan for major changes in the Five Points area will be officially presented for the first time. As shown below, the plan covers three major intersections, segments of Margaret Street and Lomax Street, and two crosswalks.
The plan was funded by Riverside Avondale Preservation, Inc., with the Five Points Merchants Association as the primary stakeholder. The consulting team for the plan is being led by Tocknell Planning Services, with assistance from Envision Design + Engineering and the Flagg Design Studio,
The plan for functional and aesthetic improvements in the Five Points area is intended to advance the goal of Riverside Avondale Preservation for making our area the safest most walk-able neighborhood in Florida.
In July 2013, as the first step in the planning study, a walking tour was conducted of the Five Points area, involving RAP leadership, CM Jim Love and other public officials, and the consultants; along with Five Points merchants and other key stakeholders. Other outreach events conducted during the study included a Town Hall meeting at the Sun-Ray Cinema, and an unofficial presentation to area merchants.
In carrying out the study, participants have learned that vehicular traffic levels have remained stable in the Five Points area over the past five years, and that for this and other reasons, one or more of the existing vehicular travel lanes in the area may no longer be needed.
To create an environment in the area that would be safer and more attractive for churches, businesses, visitors, and residents, as well as for pedestrians, bicyclists, transit users, and drivers, the plan emphasizes walkability by promoting slower vehicle speeds, more room for pedestrians, and crosswalks that are shorter and more clearly marked. The plan would also expand the amount of space available for meeting and dining, while maintaining or expanding the number of on-street parking spaces. Landscaping and lighting improvements will also be included in the plan.
After the preliminary concept plan is presented at the RAP annual meeting, there will be a 30-day review and comment period before the plan is finalized. Upon the finalization of the plan, RAP intends to proceed directly into the design phase for two elements of the plan, i.e.:
* Lomax Street between Park Street and Oak Street, and
* The “Five Points†Intersection of Park Street, Margaret Street, and Lomax Street.
The Five Points Concept Plan study will also lead to the development of new roadway design guidelines. With the recent formation of a Context Sensitive Standards Committee by the city of Jacksonville, it can be expected that these guidelines will be used as a tool for developing new roadway design standards for all of the urban areas in the city, including not only Riverside and Avondale as a whole, but also downtown, Springfield, San Marco, and other areas.
Quote from: Tacachale on February 22, 2014, 10:31:48 AM
I can't wait to see the designs. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents at the 5 points intersection.
Intersection complexity actually reduces accidents by slowing traffic. Anything that increase traffic speed is going to result in more accidents. Intersections controlled by a traffic light are the most dangerous form of intersection in the world. Converting streets to one-way maybe the worst idea yet because the wider traffic lanes and absence of on-coming traffic will increase speeds and one thing we all know - speed kills, not just literally, but figuratively as well.
Riverside 5Points and other areas such as Post Street and Edgewood Avenue really need proper redesigning to make our neighborhoods pedestrian and bicycle friendly.
Quote from: Kerry on February 24, 2014, 02:04:00 PM
Intersections controlled by a traffic light are the most dangerous form of intersection in the world.
Not sure about this. Intersections are the most dangerous area on the road I believe but I would think an intersection that used just flashing amber or red lights would be more dangerous. In my own experience I would actually say a four way stop is more dangerous than a light controlled intersection because either they don't teach "the vehicle to your right has right of way" or they just don't care.
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on February 24, 2014, 02:31:00 PM
Riverside 5Points and other areas such as Post Street and Edgewood Avenue really need proper redesigning to make our neighborhoods pedestrian and bicycle friendly.
With the pattern do this being so simple and widespread it makes you wonder why every consulting company makes it hard has hell. I guess it like a recording artist trying to use someone else song. While trying to make it their own they screw it up beyond recognition. They just need to do what has been working for 10,000 years of human urbanization.
Also in Jersey they developed something much more dangerous than a traffic light intersection. They called it a traffic circle. Thankfully most have now been replaced by huge multi-lane intersections but they used to be nonstop fender bender bumper car tracks.
Quote from: JayBird on February 24, 2014, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: Kerry on February 24, 2014, 02:04:00 PM
Intersections controlled by a traffic light are the most dangerous form of intersection in the world.
Not sure about this. Intersections are the most dangerous area on the road I believe but I would think an intersection that used just flashing amber or red lights would be more dangerous. In my own experience I would actually say a four way stop is more dangerous than a light controlled intersection because either they don't teach "the vehicle to your right has right of way" or they just don't care.
I'm sure about it. Intersection that promote high-speed traffic moving at right angle to each other are far and away the most dangerous. However, maybe it comes down to how we define 'dangerous' A low impact glancing blow (like you might experience in a roundabout) or cars trying to leave a stop sign at the same time, are in my opinion far less dangerous than someone running a red light at 45 mph.
I would really like to see the "FL state law yield to pedestrians" signs at every crosswalk in the area.
St. Augustine has had these for a while and San Marco has them now, so not sure why they're not all over 5 Points and the rest of Riverside/Avondale at this point.
It's kind of an obvious message, but since Jax is such a deadly city for pedestrians, these things really should be EVERYWHERE.
Quote from: Kerry on February 24, 2014, 02:58:44 PM
Quote from: JayBird on February 24, 2014, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: Kerry on February 24, 2014, 02:04:00 PM
Intersections controlled by a traffic light are the most dangerous form of intersection in the world.
Not sure about this. Intersections are the most dangerous area on the road I believe but I would think an intersection that used just flashing amber or red lights would be more dangerous. In my own experience I would actually say a four way stop is more dangerous than a light controlled intersection because either they don't teach "the vehicle to your right has right of way" or they just don't care.
I'm sure about it. Intersection that promote high-speed traffic moving at right angle to each other are far and away the most dangerous. However, maybe it comes down to how we define 'dangerous' A low impact glancing blow (like you might experience in a roundabout) or cars trying to leave a stop sign at the same time, are in my opinion far less dangerous than someone running a red light at 45 mph.
If you're quantifying it by amount of damage/injury than hands down anything that is head on would be much worse than an intersection. But that would argue for one way streets, which I doubt.
If you measure by "events" than yes I firmly believe the intersection is by far the leader. Obviously. Most accidents are caused when someone crosses the path of another vehicle. And that's exactly what intersections do. However, to say that one with a light is more dangerous than one without? Now that you're actually gonna have to back up with proof. I'm not a civil architect but just from my driving experience that doesn't seem true. But I could always be wrong.
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on February 24, 2014, 03:04:16 PM
I would really like to see the "FL state law yield to pedestrians" signs at every crosswalk in the area.
St. Augustine has had these for a while and San Marco has them now, so not sure why they're not all over 5 Points and the rest of Riverside/Avondale at this point.
It's kind of an obvious message, but since Jax is such a deadly city for pedestrians, these things really should be EVERYWHERE.
We argued for them to be installed in Eagle Harbor a few years ago. Now, as they're being damaged or need repair they're not being replaced because they're cost prohibitive to actually getting motorists to yield. They found what does work is asking the sheriff cars to drive through more often and actively warn/ticket offenders. If you have a Florida license, you know the law.
EDIT- what also seems to work very well are the "flashing" pedestrian signs and crosswalks but I imagine those are pretty pricey plus would need some sort of power source.
Kerry is right in that you need to slow people down. That will lessen car accidents and make bike and pedestrian access safer.
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on February 24, 2014, 03:04:16 PM
I would really like to see the "FL state law yield to pedestrians" signs at every crosswalk in the area.
St. Augustine has had these for a while and San Marco has them now, so not sure why they're not all over 5 Points and the rest of Riverside/Avondale at this point.
It's kind of an obvious message, but since Jax is such a deadly city for pedestrians, these things really should be EVERYWHERE.
The reason to date why they have not been installed at "The Shoppes" or 5-Points is because they are not historic.....
That map concept above does show something going on at the crosswalk in the middle of Park St, so maybe they're finally coming around.
Quote from: JayBird on February 24, 2014, 02:56:19 PM
Also in Jersey they developed something much more dangerous than a traffic light intersection. They called it a traffic circle. Thankfully most have now been replaced by huge multi-lane intersections but they used to be nonstop fender bender bumper car tracks.
I guess you haven't been through San Marco or past the Landing recently. Jacksonville just got this technology.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on February 24, 2014, 03:33:47 PM
Quote from: JayBird on February 24, 2014, 02:56:19 PM
Also in Jersey they developed something much more dangerous than a traffic light intersection. They called it a traffic circle. Thankfully most have now been replaced by huge multi-lane intersections but they used to be nonstop fender bender bumper car tracks.
I guess you haven't been through San Marco or past the Landing recently. Jacksonville just got this technology.
Oh no completely different. Picture one of those with two to three lanes plus entrance and exit lanes. What is in front of the Landing and San Marco has been in suburban developments since the 90s as a way to keep traffic continuously moving but slow it down.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on February 24, 2014, 03:33:47 PM
Quote from: JayBird on February 24, 2014, 02:56:19 PM
Also in Jersey they developed something much more dangerous than a traffic light intersection. They called it a traffic circle. Thankfully most have now been replaced by huge multi-lane intersections but they used to be nonstop fender bender bumper car tracks.
I guess you haven't been through San Marco or past the Landing recently. Jacksonville just got this technology.
Traffic circles and roundabouts are not the same thing.
One item that will help is table-top crosswalks (aka Crosswalk Table or speed table). They slow down traffic but also let the drivers know they are entering the pedestrian realm. It also helps create more walkability for elderly, people with strollers, and the handicapped.
Quote from: Kerry on February 24, 2014, 03:40:49 PM
One item that will help is table-top crosswalks (aka Crosswalk Table or speed table). They slow down traffic but also let the drivers know they are entering the pedestrian realm. It also helps create more walkability for elderly, people with strollers, and the handicapped.
Is this like what they have on the UNF campus where the crosswalks are brought up to sidewalk level creating like a speed hump? Because I think those are excellent.
Quote from: Josh on February 24, 2014, 03:18:23 PM
The reason to date why they have not been installed at "The Shoppes" or 5-Points is because they are not historic.....
That map concept above does show something going on at the crosswalk in the middle of Park St, so maybe they're finally coming around.
I hope so. I get that they're not "historically accurate" for the area (but then neither is a late model Toyota Prius, Harley-Davidson or SUV, right?) and are painted that retina searing bright yellow/green color, but if they educate drivers about pedestrian right-of-way and could potentially save a life I think it would be worth bending the rules a bit to install them in the area.
They're akin to reflective neon colored bicycle helmets and clothing--an unfortunate fashion side effect of living in a car dominated culture. May be ugly, but if it can prevent someone from getting hit by a car, worth it in the long run IMO.
The suburban arms and flashing lights 30' in the air in the middle of 5 Points aren't "historic" either. Proposal is to raise the crosswalk. Put flashers on reproduction historic posts at eye level on each side and put the pedestrian yield signs in the middle of the crosswalk in the road on the double striped line.
Quote from: JayBird on February 24, 2014, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: Kerry on February 24, 2014, 03:40:49 PM
One item that will help is table-top crosswalks (aka Crosswalk Table or speed table). They slow down traffic but also let the drivers know they are entering the pedestrian realm. It also helps create more walkability for elderly, people with strollers, and the handicapped.
Is this like what they have on the UNF campus where the crosswalks are brought up to sidewalk level creating like a speed hump? Because I think those are excellent.
That would be correct. They also have them at JIA with the yellow flashing lights embedded in them.
Quote from: Josh on February 24, 2014, 03:40:42 PM
Traffic circles and roundabouts are not the same thing.
In popular use, they are. Only a transportation engineer would make the distinction and, even then, only sparingly. And that's just in America, everywhere else roundabout is use exclusively for both or roundabout and circle are used interchangeably.
Nonetheless, the intersections mentioned (NJ) were all first built as "roundabouts" on suburban/rural roads and some later converted to "circles" as development increased in those areas. Being from a town that was known most for its "Circle," I know that it has always been called a "circle," even when it was a roundabout, after when it was a cut-through circle, and still now that it is a rather convoluted partial cloverleaf.
We're no different than New Jersey, we're just at an earlier stage of evolution, and a lower critical mass.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on February 26, 2014, 11:18:30 AM
Quote from: Josh on February 24, 2014, 03:40:42 PM
Traffic circles and roundabouts are not the same thing.
In popular use, they are. Only a transportation engineer would make the distinction and, even then, only sparingly. And that's just in America, everywhere else roundabout is use exclusively for both or roundabout and circle are used interchangeably.
sorry but no...I'm a planner and know the distinction....and in places like Europe that have many circles and many roundabouts, drivers seem to know the difference in how they operate.
I'm no planning expert but I am a 5 points resident. Most of the time when I'm going through 5 Points I'm on my way to 95 S. Many are.
The problem reminds me of Hollywood Blvd through downtown Hollywood, FL coming in and out of Young Circle. There's a (sometimes) thriving couple block section of bars, restaurants and shops on the west side of the circle. It's often very busy and buzzy. Traffic is very heavy, lots of pedestrians, and people looking for parking. Sound familiar?
Some years ago they redesigned that commercial stretch making it a divided road with lots of trees, parking, crosswalks and I think a 20MPH speed limit. They also attempt to divert through traffic off of that street coming going west from the circle over to Dixie Highway where they can then turn to get onto Hollywood Blvd. Similarly, eastbound traffic is supposed to turn on Dixie to get to the circle. In theory most of the traffic in the business section is local traffic or people wanting to be there not just pass through. Just an idea.
If there were a better way to get to 95S I would take it. Currently the light at Post and Margaret does a horrible job of regulating the traffic flow and it's not linked to the signal at Post and Park (which I think doesn't even have a left turn signal) so that's a worse option today. Seems like signaling and signage could be improved to encourage more traffic to avoid the 5 points yellow light to avoid more through traffic.
I must add that one of the goals of this and many other "improvement" projects MUST address bicycles and pedestrian access. I'm sure this has already been brought up I'm just adding my agreement.
Ask any business in America how routing traffic around them worked out. There is a reason many cities and towns in America are removing the by-passes, reinstituting two-way streets, and implementing traffic calming techniques to restore economic vibrancy to long-dead commercial districts.
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 24, 2014, 04:24:48 PM
Proposal is to raise the crosswalk. Put flashers on reproduction historic posts at eye level on each side and put the pedestrian yield signs in the middle of the crosswalk in the road on the double striped line.
I really cannot imagine a worse idea for a problem that does not seem to exist.
As someone who uses the crosswalk several times a day every week day, my experience has been one of courteous drivers who stop mostly at their own peril to let me pass, even when I am choosing to wait to cross.
Really quite unnecessary.
Why is everybody pining for solutions to a nonexistent problem? 5 Points is (finally...at long last) working as designed. The absolute last thing we should do is screw with it now. The problem is people aren't used to not having most of the storefronts vacant, and once the district came back, people assume that an entirely normal level of foot and automobile traffic is a "problem."
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on February 26, 2014, 01:25:21 PM
Why is everybody pining for solutions to a nonexistent problem? 5 Points is (finally...at long last) working as designed. The absolute last thing we should do is screw with it now. The problem is people aren't used to not having most of the storefronts vacant, and once the district came back, people assume that an entirely normal level of foot and automobile traffic is a "problem."
Chris, please! You're talking "Reasonably"...take that logic elsewhere!
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on February 26, 2014, 01:25:21 PM
Why is everybody pining for solutions to a nonexistent problem? 5 Points is (finally...at long last) working as designed. The absolute last thing we should do is screw with it now. The problem is people aren't used to not having most of the storefronts vacant, and once the district came back, people assume that an entirely normal level of foot and automobile traffic is a "problem."
This whole thing is driven by the same "community advocates" who made a mess of the Mellow Mushroom issue.
At the last meeting, it was stated by one of the business owners that based upon the commissioned traffic study that the incident level at the 5 Points intersection is one of the lowest in the city. This argument seemed to offer little persuasion to the ring leader of the "let's fix the nonexistent problem" crowd.
I don't quite understand the backlash to this. Improving pedestrian access is a good thing.
Quote from: Tacachale on February 26, 2014, 04:10:38 PM
I don't quite understand the backlash to this. Improving pedestrian access is a good thing.
1) This is a series of solutions in search of a problem.
2) There is no funding mechanism for the proposed "solutions"
I'd regard that intersection as an existing issue that's going to get worse, not better, especially for pedestrians. As for funding, has anyone seen the plans? Not saying you're wrong, but there doesn't seem to be much information out there.
Quote from: Tacachale on February 26, 2014, 04:23:14 PM
I'd regard that intersection as an existing issue that's going to get worse, not better, especially for pedestrians. As for funding, has anyone seen the plans? Not saying you're wrong, but there doesn't seem to be much information out there.
That intersection has been there in its current form for going on 100 years, including times when the neighborhood had far more foot traffic than it does now, and all of a sudden now it's an issue? I walk around there all the time and there are already several clearly demarcated crosswalks, there are always sufficient breaks in the traffic to cross at steady intervals, I don't see what a raised crosswalk and 1-way'ing streets, and basically screwing up the traffic flow is going to do.
There is no problem that needs fixing, and 5 points is experiencing a resurgence of economic growth, the best thing you can do is leave it alone.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on February 26, 2014, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on February 26, 2014, 04:23:14 PM
I'd regard that intersection as an existing issue that's going to get worse, not better, especially for pedestrians. As for funding, has anyone seen the plans? Not saying you're wrong, but there doesn't seem to be much information out there.
That intersection has been there in its current form for going on 100 years, including times when the neighborhood had far more foot traffic than it does now, and all of a sudden now it's an issue? I walk around there all the time and there are already several clearly demarcated crosswalks, there are always sufficient breaks in the traffic to cross at steady intervals, I don't see what a raised crosswalk and 1-way'ing streets, and basically screwing up the traffic flow is going to do.
There is no problem that needs fixing, and 5 points is experiencing a resurgence of economic growth, the best thing you can do is leave it alone.
+1000
I work in 5 Points and walk these sidewalks and crosswalks every day. I can generally cross at any of the cross walks without too much trouble. In my mind, there is not a pedestrian walkability problem.
However, I sometimes watch the traffic at the 5-way intersection from Hovan and have to say that it's amazing that there aren't more accidents there (a lot of close calls). However, I think these close calls are averted because all traffic tends to move at a reasonably slow pace through this area which is a good thing. If there is one issue that could be addressed it is the fact that the 5-way intersection is non-intuitive and hard to understand for those not familiar. For instance, clarifying how one is supposed to cross this intersection on Margaret northbound would be helpful (are you supposed to go around the pylon or not - the sign says "Keep Right).
I'd be curious to see the proposed modifications. Maybe once we see them we'll agree that they could make sense.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20Heritage%20Trolleys/ScreenShot2014-02-26at111000PM_zps8ed96293.png)
No need for roundabouts or one way streets, just lean on the city to bring back the rails. Actually a ride south from Margaret on Oak at any speed will quickly divulge that there are rotting ties beneath the asphalt. The City completed the first federal study and found it totally doable, next we passed the mobility plan, then... then... chirp, chirp.
Doug? Someone get the merchants to look at this, send this photo to the other consultants and along with RAP lets move this. I'll do what I can, might be mobile again by the end of April.
I'm glad that I'm not dredging up a totally dead thread, but I saw this and I think we can learn a lot from a little place, Addis Abbaba, Ethiopia.
I agree. F*$% signals! ;D
http://www.youtube.com/v/hVLaYHNpS7M?
^I've seen this a number of times in newer cities in China. I felt very uncomfortable...especially because there would be pedestrians walking through that without blinking an eye.
That video reminds me; 'What do you call a four-way stop in Colombia?'
HOMICIDE!
Quote from: Tacachale on February 26, 2014, 04:10:38 PM
I don't quite understand the backlash to this. Improving pedestrian access is a good thing.
Theres always a segment of any group that doesnt like progress. Look at politics, planning, school boards and the list goes on.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on June 21, 2014, 02:58:35 AM
^I've seen this a number of times in newer cities in China. I felt very uncomfortable...especially because there would be pedestrians walking through that without blinking an eye.
Hell, if I were walking through that, I don't know that I would blink either. ;)
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on June 21, 2014, 02:58:35 AM
^I've seen this a number of times in newer cities in China. I felt very uncomfortable...especially because there would be pedestrians walking through that without blinking an eye.
In China, the pedestrian doesn't have the right of way (complete opposite of America). The rule there is: the bigger you are, the more bravado you're supposed to show in going first // giving the other guy a heart attack.
Quote from: ben says on June 25, 2014, 04:28:02 PM
In China, the pedestrian doesn't have the right of way (complete opposite of America)....
Myth.
Quote(4) Where sidewalks are not provided, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall, when practicable, walk only on the shoulder on the left side of the roadway in relation to the pedestrian's direction of travel, facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction.
(7) ~~~Lots of stuff about signals and signage
(10) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.130.html
Was the woman who got killed and her daughter in a crosswalk on San Jose?
Kay, yes, I believe so.
Sounds like they're finally moving ahead with... something.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-project-will-reshape-five-points-intersection