FDOT Misguiding Public on Fuller Warren Bridge Project?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/505198657_RhDvg-M.jpg)
FDOT to unveil plans for improving traffic through the I-10 and I-95 interchange area in Jacksonville. In preparation of FDOT's presentation, Metro Jacksonville highlights a situation where FDOT may be misguiding the public in building their case to widen the Fuller Warren Bridge.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-feb-fdot-misguiding-public-on-fuller-warren-bridge-project
Just emailed Mr. Knight. That picture of the open canal ditch is so depressing when thinking of the clear cutting that just happened on Hogans Creek.
The canal along I-595? It's been that way for decades now. I doubt the canal is natural as well. I'm pretty sure it was one of many that helped drain the Everglades to allow for most of the sprawl in that section of Broward County.
Is the bridge widening a done deal? And now we're just arguing for the design elements? Or will the meeting tonight also be to push back on the expansion as a whole?
Personally, I'm not against FDOT attempting to improve travel flow on the highway. Ultimately, the devil is in the details of if it can be done without significant negative impact to the neighborhoods surrounding it. That proof of burden falls on FDOT. Nevertheless, with this article, I'm just sharing with the community what can and can't be legally done with the structure. This is something we've glazed over in the past and Jax's streets are deadly as a result of our inability to see the forest for the trees. However, it's up to the community to decide if they want a good project or no project at all.
QuoteIs the bridge widening a done deal? And now we're just arguing for the design elements? Or will the meeting tonight also be to push back on the expansion as a whole?
The bridge widening should not occur in the first place if it's going to destroy the neighborhood in the process. The original plans called for a significant amount of right of way acquisition.
What does that mean? It means that homes, businesses, a park and a portion of the Riverside Arts Market will be taken from the community to widen a damn road.
Any additional encroachment on the neighborhood is UNACCEPTABLE!
What is the date of the open house?
Today.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 10, 2014, 07:53:05 AM
Personally, I'm not against FDOT attempting to improve travel flow on the highway. Ultimately, the devil is in the details of if it can be done without significant negative impact to the neighborhoods surrounding it. That proof of burden falls on FDOT. Nevertheless, with this article, I'm just sharing with the community what can and can't be legally done with the structure. This is something we've glazed over in the past and Jax's streets are deadly as a result of our inability to see the forest for the trees. However, it's up to the community to decide if they want a good project or no project at all.
Unfortunately as of late, the FDOT's attempts to improve traffic flow have been unsuccessful or have made things worse. (i.e. 9B-N into I-295-N)
Quote from: SunKing on February 10, 2014, 08:34:14 AM
What is the date of the open house?
From the article: FDOT's informal “open house†for the unveiling of their new improvement plan will be between 4:30 and 6:30 p.m. This will be followed by a presentation at 6:30 p.m. and public comments. The location is the Riverside Park United Methodist Church at 819 Park Street.
Quote from: carpnter on February 10, 2014, 08:48:39 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 10, 2014, 07:53:05 AM
Personally, I'm not against FDOT attempting to improve travel flow on the highway. Ultimately, the devil is in the details of if it can be done without significant negative impact to the neighborhoods surrounding it. That proof of burden falls on FDOT. Nevertheless, with this article, I'm just sharing with the community what can and can't be legally done with the structure. This is something we've glazed over in the past and Jax's streets are deadly as a result of our inability to see the forest for the trees. However, it's up to the community to decide if they want a good project or no project at all.
Unfortunately as of late, the FDOT's attempts to improve traffic flow have been unsuccessful or have made things worse. (i.e. 9B-N into I-295-N)
Which is another reason why the public should pay attention to the design elements and background reasoning for FDOT projects. Getting these things right on paper can save a lot of heartache.....and public money down the road.
Thanks for the info, Lake. If FDOT wants to sell this project, a bike/ped improvement should be what they come in the door with. It shouldn't even be considered without that.
I'm planning on being there.
Two other multi-use trails to reference
The E-W Expressway east of downtown Orlando
The new I-275 project connecting downtown Tampa with Westshore
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 10, 2014, 02:02:46 PM
Two other multi-use trails to reference
The E-W Expressway east of downtown Orlando
Nice. I totally forgot about the E-W Expressway in Orlando.
(http://www.johnweeks.com/cablestay/pics/lakeunderhill04.jpg)
http://www.johnweeks.com/cablestay/pages/sec07.html
This is identical to what something on the Fuller Warren could look like. Path starts at Park Street ramp in Five Points and ends at Palm Avenue ramp in San Marco.
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o292/the_boomer136/408LakeUnderhillBridgeConcept.jpg)
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o292/the_boomer136/408LakeUnderhillBridgeConcept.jpg
Thanks. This is a good article to email to our council members. This needs to get added to the FDOT's project before serious discussions begin.
Any word on how this went?
Still underway. Public comment in about 10 minutes
At the meeting now. There's pretty large support for a bike/ped component over the Fuller Warren. Not many people are in favor of the flyover at Roosevelt. Other than that, FDOT's revised $70 million plan only takes one or two homes in North Riverside for the Roosevelt flyover (which also happens to be in the bed of McCoys Creek). Oh, and to widen the Fuller Warren, they'll have to put pilings into the river.
Why does FDOT get it right in other parts of the state but cannot seem to in our area? And are our local FDOT officials making these decisions because they assume that we either would not care or would actually embrace their proposals? smh
Looking out how all of our major cities are some of the most deadly for cyclist and pedestrians, I'm pretty sure all our FDOT districts have their fair share of warts. Ultimately, I believe it's up to each individual community to vision what they want their future to be and to then hold all public agencies responsible for helping achieve that vision. Historically, in Jax, we have not done that. Tonight, was pretty exciting to see so many people address their concerns in such a professional and educated manner.
Btw, here are some cell phone pictures from tonight:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Roads-and-Bridges/Fuller-Warren-Bridge-Expansion/i-9MfMWzJ/0/XL/IMG_20140210_183237-XL.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Roads-and-Bridges/Fuller-Warren-Bridge-Expansion/i-9mSwKj5/0/XL/IMG_20140210_195026-XL.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Roads-and-Bridges/Fuller-Warren-Bridge-Expansion/i-4RMSxd8/0/XL/IMG_20140210_195010-XL.jpg)
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Thanks for the updates, hopefully the right decisions are made.
Thank you MetroJacksonville for keeping us informed so we can make the right decisions to help our community leaders and elected officials to the right thing.
It is extremely important that a (bike) multi-use path be incorporated into the Fuller Warren Bridge to help make JAX safer for cyclists and it help those of us who need a safe way to commute to/from work.
Just think, I others and I commuted via bike, we would have less cars clogging up the highway and there would be more room and faster commute for those of you would need to commute via car!
Cars would still clog up the road because when it boils down to it, roadway widening to resolve congestion is like buying a bigger belt to solve a weight problem. What a shared use path on the FWB will really do is economically enhance the quality of life of the neighborhoods on either side of the river, make downtown more attractive and strengthen citywide bike/ped connectivity and safety. Out of all the bridges, the Fuller Warren probably has the best slop on the ramps for non-motorized traffic.
Lake, Can you comment on the extent that they will physically widen the bridge decking? From those plans it looks like the magenta areas are the only places they will widen the bridge.
The magenta area is the extent of the proposed widening.
Thanks always for the update.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 10, 2014, 07:40:45 PM
Not many people are in favor of the flyover at Roosevelt.
I don't see anyway that isn't gonna be built. With people having to merge way left from the I-10 West ramp to Roosevelt, the flyover would eliminate that 'criss-crossing' effect that dramatically slows I-10 West traffic; It's not impossible to do now (merge to US-17) but with a growing Jax, traffic isn't gonna get anymore thinner. Might as well get it over with now. IMO the 'right decision' would have the pedestrian component on Southbound I-95 side, along with the US-17 flyover ramp.
What if you could relocate the 17 off-ramp on the right side? There would still be some cross-over traffic, but less than there is now
The same reason they essentially provided two means to merge on 95 South past Stockton. They want to eliminate all cross lane traffic to reach exits. Its dangerous and contributes to congestion.
Why would they bother responding to local concerns? Isn't FDOT omnipotent?
Are they going back to look at changes again based upon the meeting? Or was it just a thanks for the input and we now move forward?
Shannon Blankinship was the young intelligent lady speaking on behalf of the river and McCoys Creek. She did a great job.
I certainly hope that they do add the bicycle/pedestrian path on the FWB. My favorite view of DT is when crossing that bridge. To be able to cross on foot or bike would be just wonderful!
Quote from: edjax on February 11, 2014, 12:23:31 PM
Are they going back to look at changes again based upon the meeting? Or was it just a thanks for the input and we now move forward?
Continue to hold their feet to the fire and you'll end up with something decent. Let them go at this alone and you'll end up with an auto centric product that negatively impacts everything that doesn't run on gasoline.
Quote from: urbaknight on February 11, 2014, 12:32:36 PM
I certainly hope that they do add the bicycle/pedestrian path on the FWB. My favorite view of DT is when crossing that bridge. To be able to cross on foot or bike would be just wonderful!
Given the location and manageable slopes, it would be a decent attraction...just like the one in Charleston.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 11, 2014, 12:34:18 PM
Quote from: edjax on February 11, 2014, 12:23:31 PM
Are they going back to look at changes again based upon the meeting? Or was it just a thanks for the input and we now move forward?
Continue to hold their feet to the fire and you'll end up with something decent. Let them go at this alone and you'll end up with an auto centric product that negatively impacts everything that doesn't run on gasoline.
Indeed, it's up to us to hold their feet and attention to the fire.
Because of the large and vocal response from citizens at the meeting about the need to take bicycle lames / multi use paths are desired and required, then the next time they are in the very early stages of road planning, they will take cyclists and pedestrians into consideration without laughing us off the table.
^Very much. It's a good idea to let our city council representatives know this is valued; as I said before the FDOT should have a bike/ped improvement when they come in the door, before any real consideration is given one way or the other. In fact, this article is a good thing to give to our representatives so they can see these improvements are simple and entirely feasible. Fortunately, it sounds like they understand the issues at hand, so it's not like we're moving mountains here.
In a recent speech, the Mayor of Oklahoma City said, "We had built an incredible quality of life.....if you were a car".
He goes on to say that their concern for their obesity problem, they built bicycle paths, pedestrian walkways and sidewalks, and more parks.
http://www.ted.com/talks/mick_cornett_how_an_obese_town_lost_a_million_pounds.html
We need that kind of thinking in our city.
Quote from: tayana42 on February 11, 2014, 09:44:52 PM
In a recent speech, the Mayor of Oklahoma City said, "We had built an incredible quality of life.....if you were a car".
He goes on to say that their concern for their obesity problem, they built bicycle paths, pedestrian walkways and sidewalks, and more parks.
http://www.ted.com/talks/mick_cornett_how_an_obese_town_lost_a_million_pounds.html
We need that kind of thinking in our city.
+100
Quote from: thelakelander on February 10, 2014, 07:27:16 AM
The canal along I-595? It's been that way for decades now. I doubt the canal is natural as well. I'm pretty sure it was one of many that helped drain the Everglades to allow for most of the sprawl in that section of Broward County.
Respectfully disagree. Was at the Main St. Bridge yesterday and noticed the beautiful Spartina grass that is next to MOSH and the Main St. bridge. And if it's not Spartina grass than someone correct me. With the freezes it's brown but what a jewel that has been unearthed with the peeling away of the Southbank Riverwalk. It has had decades to develop and mature. You just don't replace this stuff with the snap of a finger.
DIA Board member Melody Bishop at a recent DIA Board meeting mentioned that MOSH may be interested in this for a kayak launch. Super! I hope it happens. Let us all cross our fingers that the plan isn't to tear out this and concrete it over. This project was never before Waterways.
There is a meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission in council chambers today in 2 hours 9am. What another gift horse for Downtown Development.
You don't have to agree. It's either fact or fiction. If you've seen it in person, it's pretty easy to see it's not natural:
QuotePrior to the 20th century, the New River originated in the Everglades as two streams, the North Fork and South Fork, which merged and flowed about three miles into Lake Mabel, a coastal lagoon. The river was heavily modified in the first half of the 20th century. The North Fork was extended as the C-12 Canal along present-day Sunrise Boulevard, while the South Fork was extended by two canals: the G-15 or North New River Canal (created by 1912 to help drain the Everglades) and the C-11 or South New River Canal, which connects to the Miami Canal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_River_(Broward_County,_Florida)
Still as you seek to retain old structures the same can be said for our Waterways and trees that provide a canopy. Lets all get excited about that rocky bank.
Ok. I never said I wasn't happy for them utilizing G-15 as a greenway. I've actually used the I-595 expansion project as an example of what our FDOT district should be doing instead of being so auto centric focused. That project adds a shared use path along the canal, 3 express bus lines, a spot for future elevated fixed rail and reversible express lanes.