Metro Jacksonville

Riverside Avondale Night Trolley Launch This Weekend

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2997972096_nXs6MHW-M.jpg)

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority, in cooperation with Riverside Avondale Preservation, launches the Riverside Avondale Night Trolley beginning on January 3rd and 4th, 2014.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jan-riverside-avondale-night-trolley-launch-this-weekend

QuoteThe Night Trolley will run Friday and Saturday nights, from 6:00 pm – 2:00 am, on the first weekend of every month during a trial period running January through June.

Thats it??  First weekend of every month?  I will mark my calender...  ::)

The key word is 'trial period'

If ridership is high, the service can be expanded.  If people are apathetic and don't ride, then the service goes away.

It only took three years to get this far after so many have complained that a service like this wasn't available for so long... so its time to put up or shut up :)

From the hyperlink article:

QuoteIn order to make the service convenient for choice riders, users can access a route map and track trolley locations in real time via a mobile device by visiting trolley.jaxmob.com.  This is the first time in Jacksonville that riders will have access to real time bus locations, eliminating the stress of worrying about missed busses.

This is cool, can't wait until entire bus system is mobile-device aware. Nice progress for the city. In general, Jacksonville web presence is way above average.

Quote from: fieldafm on January 02, 2014, 08:21:04 AM
The key word is 'trial period'

If ridership is high, the service can be expanded.  If people are apathetic and don't ride, then the service goes away.

It only took three years to get this far after so many have complained that a service like this wasn't available for so long... so its time to put up or shut up :)

I get the "trial period"... but it seems to me if they really wanted a fair trial... it would be every weekend during that timeframe.

Quote from: stephendare on January 02, 2014, 08:23:15 AM

Quote from: fieldafm on January 02, 2014, 08:21:04 AM
The key word is 'trial period'

If ridership is high, the service can be expanded.  If people are apathetic and don't ride, then the service goes away.

It only took three years to get this far after so many have complained that a service like this wasn't available for so long... so its time to put up or shut up :)

and its a crime that it had to take three years for the transit service to respond to a trial run program requested by a community.

What it really took was a change of leadership.  We now have someone running the agency who doesn't just think that transit is moving poor people around.

QuoteWhat it really took was a change of leadership.  We now have someone running the agency who doesn't just think that transit is moving poor people around.

+1

The new leader has a board of directors he has to respond to as well, and there is a cost to run the buses and those personnel could be used elsewhere in their system, so as others have said, Time to Step Up and get with the program, or it could go away.

Technically, there is a one JTA bus line currently using a GPS location setup for cellphones. I think it's from downtown heading east towards the beaches, maybe along atlantic blvd. This is also in its trial phase and if all goes well will roll out to the rest of the system...eventually.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 02, 2014, 09:43:51 AM

Quote from: fieldafm on January 02, 2014, 08:21:04 AM
The key word is 'trial period'

If ridership is high, the service can be expanded.  If people are apathetic and don't ride, then the service goes away.

It only took three years to get this far after so many have complained that a service like this wasn't available for so long... so its time to put up or shut up :)

I get the "trial period"... but it seems to me if they really wanted a fair trial... it would be every weekend during that timeframe.

I see it as an advantage. Being just one weekend a month I think everyone will be amped up to maximize utilization, either to make a point to JTA or to just experience it for the novelty of it all. The difficulty will be in maintaining a decent ridership if the service IS provided every weekend. 

I'm making a point to be there for both reasons I listed above, but if it becomes a weekly service I'd still probably only use it once or twice a month since I don't live in the area.

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on January 02, 2014, 11:50:57 AM
Technically, there is a one JTA bus line currently using a GPS location setup for cellphones. I think it's from downtown heading east towards the beaches, maybe along atlantic blvd. This is also in its trial phase and if all goes well will roll out to the rest of the system...eventually.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 02, 2014, 09:43:51 AM

Quote from: fieldafm on January 02, 2014, 08:21:04 AM
The key word is 'trial period'

If ridership is high, the service can be expanded.  If people are apathetic and don't ride, then the service goes away.

It only took three years to get this far after so many have complained that a service like this wasn't available for so long... so its time to put up or shut up :)

I get the "trial period"... but it seems to me if they really wanted a fair trial... it would be every weekend during that timeframe.

I see it as an advantage. Being just one weekend a month I think everyone will be amped up to maximize utilization, either to make a point to JTA or to just experience it for the novelty of it all. The difficulty will be in maintaining a decent ridership if the service IS provided every weekend. 

I'm making a point to be there for both reasons I listed above, but if it becomes a weekly service I'd still probably only use it once or twice a month since I don't live in the area.

Again... isnt that the point of a trial?  If the ride is just a novelty... it is hidden by the once a month experience.  If the objective is to guage the feasibility of a permanent service you would run it every weekend.  Unless of course we dont really care if it is "feasible"...

gotcha, i think we're on the same page then, you're just questioning whether JTA is sincere with its "trial" and why we must take such baby steps to begin with.

Congratulations to Mike, Steven and everyone else involved. I say it's about time JTA got out of their comfort zone and tried something different.
Even though they are still being their stick in mud selves by only offering a once a month deal. What is that all about?
I speak on this subject as a former proposer of such a trolley about 5 or 6 years ago.
We had a meeting with JTA and DVI (pretty sure Steven was there also) to discuss what JTA could do to help the fledgling nightlife on Bay Street and when it was suggested they run a Fri/Sat night trolley from Five Points to San Marco to DT their spokesman, Mike Miller looked at me as though I was from Mars.
Anyway, hope it works out.
It is just too frustrating dealing with these city/state monoliths.

Hopefully we can make this successful and expand to serve you downtown, Mark.  That meeting was when Pamela Elms was still at DVI and I remember it well.


It will be a bit chilly tonight, but the trolleys will be warm inside... hope to see many of you out tonight for a successful kickoff!

Would be nice to have then run earlier, so I can go to my favorite watering holes for some passes now!

Are these really the only places to purchase a pass? I thought I saw Walgreens at Park and King listed at one point, but no more.

Grassroots Natural Market
Green Man Gourmet
Let Them Eat Cake
Open Road Bicycles
European Street
Brewery District
Intuition Ale Works

For the record: Walgreen's and Grassroots didn't have them and were unaware they were listed as sellers. However, I was able to secure two day passes at the European Street on Park St.

Quote from: marksjax on January 02, 2014, 04:34:13 PM
Congratulations to Mike, Steven and everyone else involved. I say it's about time JTA got out of their comfort zone and tried something different.
Even though they are still being their stick in mud selves by only offering a once a month deal. What is that all about?
I speak on this subject as a former proposer of such a trolley about 5 or 6 years ago.
We had a meeting with JTA and DVI (pretty sure Steven was there also) to discuss what JTA could do to help the fledgling nightlife on Bay Street and when it was suggested they run a Fri/Sat night trolley from Five Points to San Marco to DT their spokesman, Mike Miller looked at me as though I was from Mars.
Anyway, hope it works out.
It is just too frustrating dealing with these city/state monoliths.

Mark, maybe the Elbow group, Ian Ranne, and some San Marco bars could try a private version of this between DT, Springfield and San Marco.  Just a thought.

Grassroots did and still does have passes for sale.  Sorry someone told you they didn't.  They do in fact have them for sale.

Walgreens did not receive passes. There was a miscommunication about their availability at Walgreens and I personally apologize for that. 

You can buy passes today (pending availability) at:
Grassroots
Green Man Gourmet
Let Them Eat Cake
Open Road Bicycles
European Street Cafe
Bold City Brewery
Intuition Ale Works

If you get on a trolley tonight and need a pass and have a credit card, there will be someone on board from 6-9pm that can sell you a pass (tonight only). 

Quote from: fieldafm on January 04, 2014, 10:21:15 AM
If you get on a trolley tonight and need a pass and have a credit card, there will be someone on board from 6-9pm that can sell you a pass (tonight only).

Bingo! This is awesome. So that is true for all the trolleys between 6 and 9? I'm counting on you Mike!  ;D

There will be a LIMITED amount of cards on board tonight from 6-9pm, so I woud encourage you to buy a pass ahead of time at one of the retailers listed above.

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on January 04, 2014, 09:27:02 AM

Quote from: marksjax on January 02, 2014, 04:34:13 PM
Congratulations to Mike, Steven and everyone else involved. I say it's about time JTA got out of their comfort zone and tried something different.
Even though they are still being their stick in mud selves by only offering a once a month deal. What is that all about?
I speak on this subject as a former proposer of such a trolley about 5 or 6 years ago.
We had a meeting with JTA and DVI (pretty sure Steven was there also) to discuss what JTA could do to help the fledgling nightlife on Bay Street and when it was suggested they run a Fri/Sat night trolley from Five Points to San Marco to DT their spokesman, Mike Miller looked at me as though I was from Mars.
Anyway, hope it works out.
It is just too frustrating dealing with these city/state monoliths.

Mark, maybe the Elbow group, Ian Ranne, and some San Marco bars could try a private version of this between DT, Springfield and San Marco.  Just a thought.

If it were reasonably affordable that would be a possibility and that cost issue was discussed before with certain bars, The Landing, etc. I use the Metro Jacksonville Pub Crawls as a template for costs associated with using the JTA. Steven and Mike can chime in on that subject with better info than I have but I seem to remember a $500 fee for one bus in talks with JTA (unrelated to Pub Crawls which were done later on).

Of course, one bus isn't enough and then you add a second or third bus and it starts adding up. There typically isn't enough in a bar's budget to be able to self finance these buses. The cost (for the buses) are the same whether you charge the customers or not. My proposal was free ridership which was similar to (at the time) the Beaches Trolley (first year was free) which was a big success. Which became less of a success the next year when they started charging and then kept changing the route.

Basically, I gave a suggestion that I thought might work and being naive thought that for the good of the community that JTA would get on board (pardon the pun) and finance this route to help make DT a destination for nightlife.

My expertise is in hospitality (food and beverage) and admittedly I know little about public transportation. But my argument to JTA when they were saying they don't have the money to do this was that I pointed out all the empty buses I see night after night repeating the same routes with little or no ridership. This could be a route than was packed each night and had built in ridership potential.

They could not get their collective heads around the concept that this was a potential money maker for them and not a for sure money loser.

My premise was that the COJ had made DT a priority to become a nightlife destination but had not engaged JTA in this goal. I was trying to do that. I was not successful obviously.

I hold no ill will towards JTA but I came away with an understanding just how hard it is to get them to change their way of thinking and to think outside the box for a change. This is why this new trolley idea is such a big deal as most people don't realize how difficult it has been for those involved (not me) to have accomplished this new trolley. I tip my hat to Mike, Steven, RAP and all others who got this done. 

Well said Stephen (sorry in my haste that I misspelled your first name).

Stephen is the best source for any and all of the history and the trials and tribulations of operating a business Downtown and dealing with such entities as the COJ, City Council, JTA, DVI (& the old JEDC), JSO, JEA to name a few.

Stephen was indeed the pioneer who dealt with a bucketful of stuff that we don't have to deal with now because of him.

And, in my humble opinion, all business operators that have followed in DT, Springfield, Riverside/Avondale & San Marco owe him a debt of gratitude for what he has accomplished.

Who is this trolley meant for?  When I see articles written about it I hear that it is meant to alleviate parking issues in local neighborhoods.  5 Points after dark rarely has parking problems, and it's really not that hard to find a parking spot near Avondale/Park&King if you're willing to walk a block or two to your destination.  Some people might not like to have to park so far away, but the problem is that if a short walk from your car is too much to put up with then waiting around in 50 degree weather for a trolley to show up will probably not be very appealing either.

I agree that right now there's not really a parking issue. Some people see it differently.

I'd say it's for people who don't want to drive...primarily those who live in the area and don't want to drive at all, and secondarily for those from elsewhere who don't want to drive back and forth during the night.

Quote from: fieldafm on January 04, 2014, 11:43:01 AM
There will be a LIMITED amount of cards on board tonight from 6-9pm, so I woud encourage you to buy a pass ahead of time at one of the retailers listed above.

Ok, thanks for the heads up. If I'm riding soon after 6pm I hope I'm ok, but I'll keep in mind that there's no guarantee.

Hope this all works out & there are enough destinations in place to bring crowds out. The more options the more riders im assuming....

Quote from: Transatlantic on January 04, 2014, 02:58:04 PM
Who is this trolley meant for?  When I see articles written about it I hear that it is meant to alleviate parking issues in local neighborhoods.  5 Points after dark rarely has parking problems, and it's really not that hard to find a parking spot near Avondale/Park&King if you're willing to walk a block or two to your destination.  Some people might not like to have to park so far away, but the problem is that if a short walk from your car is too much to put up with then waiting around in 50 degree weather for a trolley to show up will probably not be very appealing either.

The trolley is meant to give people an alternative to driving... which is how a) the neighborhood was originally built and b) how walkable neighborhoods work

The diversity in people using the trolley is something that has been pretty incredible to witness.  That tells me that people will use alternatives if a reliable and convenient one exists. 

Watch MATT ABOUT JAX: Take a ride with Matt on the Riverside Avondale Night Trolley

http://jacksonville.com/video/entertainment/2014-01-04/watch-matt-about-jax-take-ride-matt-riverside-avondale-night-trolley

Pretty good crowds last night. Thanks to all that came out!

One of the coolest things last night was that Pele's Wood Fire set up a 32" tv that showed the trolley website, so you could literally see where the trolleys were from your seat. 

Quote from: fieldafm on January 05, 2014, 08:10:11 AM
Pretty good crowds last night. Thanks to all that came out!

One of the coolest things last night was that Pele's Wood Fire set up a 32" tv that showed the trolley website, so you could literally see where the trolleys were from your seat.

That's awesome.  Let's see if we can get all the establishments to do that.

A few observations, and I already sent a note to Carmen and Jim Love on these items.

Great turnout, we were on XXX3 to start the night and our trolley was packed, we took it from Belvedere and Park, then we picked up people at Orsay and really got loaded down near the Goal Post, as I think people parked in the parking lot of Espeto and headed into Riverside from there. By the time we got to Ingleside and St. Johns, the bus was busting at the seams. Bluefish was packed, bar, seats, inside and out.

Headed to Park and King, and not sure of that trolley but we had to stand this time, and then most of the people at Pele's were all trolley people, it was hopping too. Then we wanted to head to Intuition for a beer and with no trolleys around (seems they really liked to follow each other all night long, when we needed a ride), so we walked. Eh Ghad, I know, but then we picked up XXX3 again and this time, the driver had to take a 10 minute break at Stockton and Rosselle. Wish we would have known he was taking a 10 minute break, we could have picked up another Trolley to take us to Riverside.

In Riverside, went to O'brothers, Black Sheep, and Buck at O'Brothers said no one informed him of the crush of people, they were packed inside and out. Black Sheep was not as full as I thought, but by this time it was late, but was still fun.

The only real issue I had was that the app stopped tracking the last bus. The app was working, but it showed the bus stuck at Park and King, its last GPS tracking position. So we had no idea where the last bus was located. 5 Points may be a safe place, but no where is necessarily safe at 1:40 AM and with ladies looking for a trolley, it was not something I want to repeat in February. JTA said the GPS failed on the bus, but there was no backup, they used cell phones with the last trip, surely a backup cell phone could have been used?

I took the last 6 passes that Intuition had when I was there yesterday afternoon, so they sold out theirs. Hope others did too. Looking forward to the rider numbers.

QuoteThat's awesome.  Let's see if we can get all the establishments to do that.

What would be great would be to have to-go cups available from the merchants to ride the trolley.

You cannot bring alcohol on to the trolley.  You can't bring open containers of alcohol on busses, period. 

It is also illegal for restaurants to let you walk out of their business with open containers of alcohol. 

As far as the trolleys having to stop.. they do this so that they can maintain headways... Otherwise you would see three busses in a row hit a stop and then nothing for 45 minutes.

I think operationally, JTA did a really, really good job.

As far as the STAR cards, many merchants did sell out quicker than expected on Saturday.  We did (for this weekend only) have volunteers on board from 6-10pm selling passes if you paid with a credit card. Starting in February, hopefully more merchants will be willing to sell STAR cards.

It would be very interesting to see how merchant's revenue from last night compares with other Saturday nights

Awesome first weekend! Lots of kinks to work out though, I believe.

-Perhaps when the service drops to one trolley the route can be shortened as well. I'm mainly thinking about cutting out service to commercial areas that have closed down but lack residential riders, which may really just be the brewery district.
-To me, the website loaded very slowly at certain times of the evening. Could have been my phone, but also could have been the server being slammed.
-Maintain headways better.

Quote from: fieldafm on January 05, 2014, 12:05:48 PM
You cannot bring alcohol on to the trolley. 

I assume you mean only open containers, right? Picked up a six-pack at Beer:60 earlier in the evening and wouldnt think that should have been a problem.

Quote from: fieldafm on January 05, 2014, 12:05:48 PM
As far as the trolleys having to stop.. they do this so that they can maintain headways... Otherwise you would see three busses in a row hit a stop and then nothing for 45 minutes.

This was a big problem for us! I think it was just after 8pm, and we wanted to go from King Street back to Five Points...but all three trolleys were already in Five Points!! Which meant we had to wait about ten minutes for the next trolley to come...and it would be followed closely by the other two, all going in the wrong direction for us. We got on the first one anyway, and in the process of riding out to avondale, were passed by the other two at various stops. LOL...point being they were all bunched together. My friend later suggested I screenshot the GPS locator to show all three next to each other, but I didnt think of it at the time.

One nice thing is that the Star Cards actually function for regular bus service. My friends were restless and we decided to hop back out at King Street and Riverside and walk the six blocks back...and upon getting off the trolley we saw the regular Riverside bus come along, transferred over and the cards worked! That was a sensible and nice surprise.

All-in-all, had a good time. Looking forward to next month!

QuoteAs far as the trolleys having to stop.. they do this so that they can maintain headways... Otherwise you would see three busses in a row hit a stop and then nothing for 45 minutes.

That was a failure all night long, the buses were repeatedly right behind each other Saturday night, early in the night especially.

Buses running together - lack of supervision, JTA must not have had any route supervisors working the route.

JTA did have supervisors working and they actually did a pretty good job maintaining headways for most of Friday and Saturday night.  There were two designated points along the route where trolleys waited if they were running ahead of schedule (and they almost always were).  On the nearly 9 hours I spent aboard between Friday and Saturday night, the JTA supervisor did a really good job and came aboard several times to ask and answer questions to/from riders. The schedules being used were all based on standard assumptions regarding what kind of slack time should be built into the schedule.

That said, any new route will have some bunching problems at first (especially on routes with frequent headways).  I think JTA operations will have better data on average trip times as time goes on so that they can fine tune their control points, but that will also be a work in progress.  For example between Friday and Saturday night, there were pretty wide variations on which stops were popular and at which times during the night when more riders were on board.  Was that just because of the weather, or will that become standard?  That's a question that will just have to play out throughout this trial period.  JTA operations has been good to work with so far, so I'm very optimistic that the route performance will continue to improve.

Good to hear!  Yes, I imagine that driving time is quite different late at night.

Quote from: mtraininjax on January 05, 2014, 09:07:15 PM

QuoteAs far as the trolleys having to stop.. they do this so that they can maintain headways... Otherwise you would see three busses in a row hit a stop and then nothing for 45 minutes.

That was a failure all night long, the buses were repeatedly right behind each other Saturday night, early in the night especially.

They all do that & its a major problem with running an antiquated bus service in a town the size of Jax. If they're making good time, they'll pull over, park & wait so they can hit the scheduled times more accurately. So that any "good time" is then destroyed & good for nothing.

In cities that run regular services (like pickups every 10-20 minutes), from either bus or rail, then it wouldn't matter. And many times stops have electronic notifications indicating the ETA to clue riders in. Of course in Jax, you'll do well to get a bench that isnt broken down & some kind of shelter from the elements.

Quote from: peestandingup on January 06, 2014, 01:47:16 AM
In cities that run regular services (like pickups every 10-20 minutes), from either bus or rail, then it wouldn't matter. And many times stops have electronic notifications indicating the ETA to clue riders in. Of course in Jax, you'll do well to get a bench that isnt broken down & some kind of shelter from the elements.

This is not completely true.  If there are published arrival times (even when they run every 15-20 minutes), then it is imperative that the buses not arrive early.  Most transit agencies tell people to be at the stop at least 5 minutes before the scheduled arrival time just in case.

There are always trade-offs when using ANY form of public transportation.  Bottom line - JTA and the organizing committee did a very good job last weekend! 

QuoteBottom line - JTA and the organizing committee did a very good job last weekend!

They did OK, the failure of the GPS system Saturday night with the app, really screwed a lot people. Hope they can build in some backups for the next few months.

Have there been any ridership numbers released?

Just under 1000 is what I heard.

If those were distinct riders and not just trips, then that means it was profitable by a large margin!

Quote from: SunKing on January 14, 2014, 06:57:55 PM
Have there been any ridership numbers released?

963 riders, which is good considering how cold it was Friday night.

And to answer Max's question, those are 963 'trips'.  Nevertheless, the numbers were good.  See all 1300 of you in February!

It seems likely that revenue to JTA would have been at least $1500, which is probably roughly what it cost to operate the 3 trolleys.  I don't think the trolleys have to actually be profitable for JTA to continue the service, they just need to see that ridership is sustanined

I'm looking foward to riding the trolley.

Quote from: tufsu1 on January 15, 2014, 08:16:06 AM
It seems likely that revenue to JTA would have been at least $1500, which is probably roughly what it cost to operate the 3 trolleys.  I don't think the trolleys have to actually be profitable for JTA to continue the service, they just need to see that ridership is sustanined

Of course not!! I was just marveling at the possibility...of course ridership would dip if/when the service is offered regularly, but I believe we can maintain good numbers throughout the trial.

Make sure they get the headways issues fixed! That was a very real problem and really turned off half of my party (we had about a dozen folks).

Jim Love said in a meeting this morning that the trolley actually broke even.  On JTA's regular routes the fares only cover about 30% of the cost so by any measure it was a roaring success.

JTA's fare box recovery is actually 18% systemwide. 

Quote from: fieldafm on January 15, 2014, 01:11:13 PM
JTA's fare box recovery is actually 18% systemwide. 

Maybe he was talking about the Beach's trolley service.

Not bad for a Potato Chip Truck - Eh Lake?

Anyone know if the trolley is running this weekend?  Or is it next weekend?

Next weekend, Feb 7-8th.

It runs the first full weekend of every month through June. So in March, it will run March 7-8th, etc

Quote from: fieldafm on January 31, 2014, 11:04:12 AM
Next weekend, Feb 7-8th.

It runs the first full weekend of every month through June. So in March, it will run March 7-8th, etc

Got it--thanks!

Trolley runs Friday and Saturday night.
Hawkers in Five Points opens on Friday night. There is possibly no better way to get there than by getting trollied!

Bumping this up. 

Tomorrow night is going to be crazy!! We're going to put the RPC to shame!

Expect LOOOOOOONG waits at restaurants from 6-8. Plan on it along the route. Get somewhere early, stay or hang at the bar, then move on to somewhere off the path, or wait to eat late, but it is going to be busy. Last time the wait at restaurants in Avondale was almost an hour on Saturday.

Wait, there are long waits at restaurants on the busiest night of the week when you dont have a reservation?
Weird.

The inhumanity!!! I can already see the headlines:  "Local efforts to boost walkability and appeal of urban neighborhood leads to crowded restaurants!!". Jim Love won't allow this to last for long.

Quote from: mtraininjax on February 07, 2014, 08:49:05 AM
Expect LOOOOOOONG waits at restaurants from 6-8. Plan on it along the route. Get somewhere early, stay or hang at the bar, then move on to somewhere off the path, or wait to eat late, but it is going to be busy. Last time the wait at restaurants in Avondale was almost an hour on Saturday.

Hit the early bird gramps.  Then you can make it home in time to batten down the hatches and hunker down before the rioting starts. 

Guys, if you don't stop dogpiling on mtrain, he might post "YAWN!!!!!!!!!" and then where will you be?

I can see the Saturday night meltdown now...

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIY6-ptTtSa6llszLOlDOjO4fk6XWr-vV6oG6qI6RQB_FbAFdN)

Don't you people have homes?!?!?  Don't you people have jobs?!?!?

In all seriousness, I would encourage as many of you as possible to ride this service tonight and tomorrow night.

Let's show JTA this is viable AND can be expanded into Downtown/San Marco/etc.  The only way to do that, is to put your butts in the seat this weekend.

I guarantee you will meet some awesome people on the trolley.

JTA ran a very positive story about this new trolley service on its Making Moves TV show this week. Interviews with Mike Field, Jim Love and several riders.

Quote from: exnewsman on February 07, 2014, 07:00:12 PM
JTA ran a very positive story about this new trolley service on its Making Moves TV show this week. Interviews with Mike Field, Jim Love and several riders.

When does that go on youtube?

Pretty good crowd last night!

If you didn't have the opportunity, would encourage you to utilize the service tonight. I met some really cool people on board last night (ranging from 22-67years old, very diverse) and had a great time!

Grassroots and Green Man Gourmet got restocked with passes. Highly, highly encourage you to buy passes ahead of time either there or Intuition, Bold City, Open Road Bicycles, Let Them Eat Cake or European Street.

Also, please note... Trolley drivers CANNOT MAJKE CHANGE. 

The trolley is packed tonight. The general consensus is for more service. Its quite the jolley crowd.

So happy to hear this! Grassroots efforts win again!

Great time last night. Absolutely packed trolleys, but never had any trouble tracking them or getting on.  People were really excited about it.  Catch a bite to eat in five points or Orsay, then trolley to king at or bold city.  Some had hopped on from their house, some had driven to one spot and trolley from there.  Great foundation to build off of.

I doubt you'd find a single business that did not benefit from the service last night.

Rode the trolley both Friday and Saturday. Had a blast as always. Gotta make one complaint though... It went down to only one trolley at 1am on both nights. We waited at a bus stop in five points with 15 other people for about 30 min. I eventually just caught a cab (at 1:35am) so we could get home.

Thanks for riding Able. After midnight, only one trolley runs until 2am so the headways are about 25-30 minutes.. meaning it will take a little longer to catch a trolley after midnight.

This is still a trial period, so JTA has to test demand before making any changes.  It only took three years to get to this point, so hopefully after the next 4 months we'll see some really positive changes.

We put 22 on number 2015 at Belvedere and Park on Friday night, took it to the fish, then to Silver Cow, Peles back to the cow and then back to Belvedere. Good ride Friday night.

Sat night was MM friends party, then went to O'brothers and ended on roof of Black Sheep. Good times.

Happy to report that even with less than ideal conditions Friday night, ridership for Feb was up over 46 percent from Jan.

We noticed an increase in business on Friday and Saturday in our Taproom.

We are very big fans!

Thanks for the reply "Fieldafm." Now that I know a little more about the scheduling I'll plan accordingly next time. It was still a blast as always

Officially, 1408 trips on the trolley this past weekend.. over 900 on Saturday alone.

Quote from: fieldafm on February 11, 2014, 11:34:13 AM
Officially, 1408 trips on the trolley this past weekend.. over 900 on Saturday alone.

Do they count passes purchased but not used?  I'm not sure if I'll have to work the first weekend of March, but I'll buy the day passes early just in case.

Ridership counts are based on when someone swipes their pass on board or puts money into the fare box.
Buy some for friends that have never ridden before and encourage them to use the service in March!

Heard from Regina at the Silver Cow that some of you, who shall remain nameless, have turned the trolley into a drinking game, get off the trolley, grab a beer, don't pay and then rush out with the beer glass to jump on the next trolley. She said that for 1, it is illegal and they have to call the police which pulls them away from good work at the Waffle House, to come and babysit someone who knows better, and 2, she loses a lot of her well constructed nice glassware.

So cut out the crap or you few will ruin it for all of us. Bouncers at each eatery, prices rise, less fun for everyone because of idiots!

Ohhh mtrain, you're the best.

No one's ever dined and dashed in the history of the service industry prior to this past weekend. Amazing when you think about it.

Lousy kids, get off Mtrain's lawn.

I would say the fault lies at least partially with Silver Cow. On Friday night they were full, but allowed another group of 30 in, which created a shoulder to shoulder mob of people. If somebody swiped a glass during that, I wouldn't be surprised. They could have easily said they were at capacity, but they didn't.

One has to wonder what the service was like when that occurred. You're always going to have some number of walkouts in a bar or restaurant regardless of the method of transportation. But this sounds like it was far from an isolated incident, which to me speaks more strongly to bad service and customers on a timetable than anything else. There's always that 2% of people who want something for nothing, but if it's beyond that normal small percentage and you're having a surge of walkouts then the problem is probably you, not them.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 12, 2014, 01:59:32 PM
I would say the fault lies at least partially with Silver Cow. On Friday night they were full, but allowed another group of 30 in, which created a shoulder to shoulder mob of people. If somebody swiped a glass during that, I wouldn't be surprised. They could have easily said they were at capacity, but they didn't.

It was like that on Saturday too. Staff was not managing the situation appropriately whatsoever.

QuoteI think mtrain is exaggerating anyway

Yeah, I am exaggerating. Go ask Regina at Silver Cow. Ask her how she feels about it. She had to call the police on people walking out with alcohol. So what is she to do as a small business? Hire goons to beat idiots to a pulp if they don't leave their $5 beer behind? It would help clean up the gene pool in Jacksonville, but is it necessary than my $5 beer is now $6 because idiots don't understand that the law states that there is no open container law in Jacksonville?

It's the bar's fault. Yeah right, keep it up, you will ruin something that is awesome for the rest of us!

Quotebecause idiots don't understand that the law states that there is no open container law in Jacksonville?

Well, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black....

Quote from: mtraininjax on January 05, 2014, 11:54:21 AM
What would be great would be to have to-go cups available from the merchants to ride the trolley.

Wait until WLA or the parking study committee learns about the increased crime resulting from the trolley.  Game over, bitches.

Quote from: fieldafm on February 13, 2014, 08:17:33 AM

Quotebecause idiots don't understand that the law states that there is no open container law in Jacksonville?

Well, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black....

Quote from: mtraininjax on January 05, 2014, 11:54:21 AM
What would be great would be to have to-go cups available from the merchants to ride the trolley.

(http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud.jpg)

Wondering how this once/month service will translate to a weekly service? This growth from Jan to Feb is tremendous and you have to think that it will be even better once the weather improves. But will it be supported every weekend with these kinds of numbers to make it sustainable?

Thoughts of the group?

Considering the overwhelmingly vast majority of people that board the trolley are choice riders, most who have never ridden a bus before in their lives... I would say there is a tremendous opportunity to sustain ridership if the trolley is convenient, reliable and relevant in people's lives (relevance includes an expansion into downtown). 


Knight Lynx in Orlando has been working since 2011, linking UCF and Downtown together via late night bus service.


(http://knightnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/580620_533880606646783_689422435_n.jpg)

Don't forget the long term, positive effect of getting people who would never think of riding a bus having a great experience with transit once a month.  Next thing you know they will be riding the bus to work.

^^except due to our crappy mass transit it would probably take them 2 hours to get to work.

were there no headways issues this month? I've been out of town...

Quote from: exnewsman on February 13, 2014, 12:11:48 PM
But will it be supported every weekend with these kinds of numbers to make it sustainable?

Sounds like it absolutely will be. Sustainable in the sense of mass transit, probably not in the sense of it being "profitable."

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on February 14, 2014, 02:35:05 AM
were there no headways issues this month? I've been out of town...

I believe so, but the case mentioned to me was due to a train at King/Rosselle. Not much you can do about that unless the trolley drivers turn at Gilmore and go through the BCB parking lot, but I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

Was at Lola's last night, Carlos was packed on a Thursday. I know the trolley has brought customers to places that were not on the patron's "path" a few months ago. Silver Cow was packed Regina said, albeit for the bar glass gate issues. She sold out of most beers and wine, she said it was a lot more than she figured.

As the weather gets better too, look for higher numbers. Would be nice to see a major festival on the same date as the trolley, like the beerfest coming up at RAM/Riverside Rotary Club on the 22nd, to have the trolley extended for a day. Maybe JTA will see the value for the fall when there is the Riverside Wine Festival or Christmas in Avondale.

Extending the Riverside~Avondale trolley to Edgewood Avenue in Murray Hill will go a long way in solving the parking and traffic congestion issues in Avondale and various streets in Riverside.

Edgewood Avenue in Murray Hill has numerous churches with big parking lots that are not used at night or on weekends except for Sunday morning and the Bank Of America parking lot never used at night.

The churches could make money charging minimal parking fees, it solve many parking and traffic issues in RAP neighborhoods and expose people to the restaurants and shops of Murray Hill.

The RAP trolley with stops on Edgewood Avenue in Murray Hill is a win/win for all.

Quote from: Josh on February 14, 2014, 08:14:52 AM

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on February 14, 2014, 02:35:05 AM
were there no headways issues this month? I've been out of town...

I believe so, but the case mentioned to me was due to a train at King/Rosselle. Not much you can do about that unless the trolley drivers turn at Gilmore and go through the BCB parking lot, but I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

ok. it didn't seem like much of a concern to people on this forum, but my group was very aggravated by that problem in January. I'm sure all the kinks will be worked out soon, if not already.

Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on February 16, 2014, 06:28:01 PM
The RAP trolley with stops on Edgewood Avenue in Murray Hill is a win/win for all.

I'd love to see that as well, just hope it doesn't lessen the effectiveness (if longer headways and travel times) or increase the cost too much. I'd expect them to extend into brooklyn by the end of the year if they decide to provide it beyond the trial period.

QuoteThe RAP trolley with stops on Edgewood Avenue in Murray Hill is a win/win for all.

Just a point of clarification, this is a JTA service.

Just visited with the five points merchant meeting today. If more people ride then we can extend this to every weekend. We are going to be selling tickets at rain dogs if you can't get out to grassroots by 8pm. Spread the word and get more people involved!

Quote from: nighthawksjax on February 20, 2014, 07:01:05 AM
Just visited with the five points merchant meeting today. If more people ride then we can extend this to every weekend. We are going to be selling tickets at rain dogs if you can't get out to grassroots by 8pm. Spread the word and get more people involved!

Ridership so far has been very good. There were 963 trips taken the first month and that jumped to 1408 the second month. Both were not great weather weekends. I see it going even higher as the weather improves into the spring. The more places people can buy tickets the better though. It makes it easier - they don't have to worry about having cash (correct change).

If this is successful, perhaps this type of partnership between the public and JTA will also expand with other services.

I hope people continue to use it and more late night venues open on the line.

QuoteI did. And you are.

Why on earth would you post this kind of stuff on her behalf?

Btw, the owner of this remarkable little place is also Jaxbrewbitch, a pretty awesome beer blogger.

Mtrain aside, stop by and check the place out.  I ran into Cari Sanchez Potter and a few other riverside notables Saturday afternoon.  Its such a cool laid back venue.

She's getting her pinnacle system in place (the restaurant computer thingys).to help the process, and theyve been using square for credit card processing--- all off of iPads.  She was actually quite delighted to have been slammed with so much business, and at the end of the night to be able to recount the moments of sheer crazy that go into a good night of sales.

Shame on you mtrain for introducing the bar and the trolley route in such a fashion.

ROTLMAO, I sat there with Regina, we were the only ones there last Tuesday was in there with brokers from CB Richard Ellis as well as a guy who was interested in opening a similar place. We commented on Rob's art work in the bar, yet another good friend.  When we went back the next night, "Thursday", we saw Quinn working there, he used to work at Terra, then ran into Regina later that night next door at Lola's.

Let me know when you want to meet up at Silver Cow, perhaps she can set the record straight. She got flowers out of me the last time I visited her. So close to Valentines day, she said Whit would be OK with it. Cari is great,  I see her all the time, she stops by my neighbor who is one of the chefs of the Intuition Beer Dinners, the owner of a successful restaurant, who is looking to open another in Brooklyn. Maybe he could hire you as a short order cook?!

Quote from: mtraininjax on February 20, 2014, 06:01:54 PM

QuoteI did. And you are.

Why on earth would you post this kind of stuff on her behalf?

Btw, the owner of this remarkable little place is also Jaxbrewbitch, a pretty awesome beer blogger.

Mtrain aside, stop by and check the place out.  I ran into Cari Sanchez Potter and a few other riverside notables Saturday afternoon.  Its such a cool laid back venue.

She's getting her pinnacle system in place (the restaurant computer thingys).to help the process, and theyve been using square for credit card processing--- all off of iPads.  She was actually quite delighted to have been slammed with so much business, and at the end of the night to be able to recount the moments of sheer crazy that go into a good night of sales.

Shame on you mtrain for introducing the bar and the trolley route in such a fashion.

ROTLMAO, I sat there with Regina, we were the only ones there last Tuesday was in there with brokers from CB Richard Ellis as well as a guy who was interested in opening a similar place. We commented on Rob's art work in the bar, yet another good friend.  When we went back the next night, "Thursday", we saw Quinn working there, he used to work at Terra, then ran into Regina later that night next door at Lola's.

Let me know when you want to meet up at Silver Cow, perhaps she can set the record straight. She got flowers out of me the last time I visited her. So close to Valentines day, she said Whit would be OK with it. Cari is great,  I see her all the time, she stops by my neighbor who is one of the chefs of the Intuition Beer Dinners, the owner of a successful restaurant, who is looking to open another in Brooklyn. Maybe he could hire you as a short order cook?!

You want to borrow a dustpan to pick up all those names you just dropped?

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on February 20, 2014, 09:14:04 PM

Quote from: mtraininjax on February 20, 2014, 06:01:54 PM

QuoteI did. And you are.

Why on earth would you post this kind of stuff on her behalf?

Btw, the owner of this remarkable little place is also Jaxbrewbitch, a pretty awesome beer blogger.

Mtrain aside, stop by and check the place out.  I ran into Cari Sanchez Potter and a few other riverside notables Saturday afternoon.  Its such a cool laid back venue.

She's getting her pinnacle system in place (the restaurant computer thingys).to help the process, and theyve been using square for credit card processing--- all off of iPads.  She was actually quite delighted to have been slammed with so much business, and at the end of the night to be able to recount the moments of sheer crazy that go into a good night of sales.

Shame on you mtrain for introducing the bar and the trolley route in such a fashion.

ROTLMAO, I sat there with Regina, we were the only ones there last Tuesday was in there with brokers from CB Richard Ellis as well as a guy who was interested in opening a similar place. We commented on Rob's art work in the bar, yet another good friend.  When we went back the next night, "Thursday", we saw Quinn working there, he used to work at Terra, then ran into Regina later that night next door at Lola's.

Let me know when you want to meet up at Silver Cow, perhaps she can set the record straight. She got flowers out of me the last time I visited her. So close to Valentines day, she said Whit would be OK with it. Cari is great,  I see her all the time, she stops by my neighbor who is one of the chefs of the Intuition Beer Dinners, the owner of a successful restaurant, who is looking to open another in Brooklyn. Maybe he could hire you as a short order cook?!

You want to borrow a dustpan to pick up all those names you just dropped?

Glad some one pointed out the MTRAIN is the KING of name dropping.  Somehow these supposed informants are not always 100% accurate on their info though.  Maybe its the filter the news is going through.

The trolley runs again this Friday and Saturday night.

Not only is using the trolley FUN, but your support this weekend is critical if this is to be expanded into a full time service that one day also goes into downtown...

Also, Rain Dogs in Five Points has joined the list of merchants who are selling passes to ride the trolley all night for $4 (otherwise, each trip costs $1.50 and requires exact change).

Passes can also be purchased at Open Road Bicycles, Let Them Eat Cake and Green Man Gourmet in Avondale... European Street Cafe, Intuition Ale Works and Bold City Brewery in the King Street District... and Grassroots in Five Points.

Just bumping this up as a reminder that the Riverside Avondale Night Trolley is this Friday and Saturday.

www.riversideavondalenighttrolley.com (http://www.riversideavondalenighttrolley.com)

Bumping this up.

Hope to see many new and many old faces tomorrow and Saturday!

QuoteGlad some one pointed out the MTRAIN is the KING of name dropping.  Somehow these supposed informants are not always 100% accurate on their info though.  Maybe its the filter the news is going through.

You and Stephen steal all the glasses you can Friday AND Saturday night. Can't wait for the bitching to start along King Street. Maybe those who steal booze will get a ride in the back seat of a police car, and enjoy a free ride to central booking where we can all see your lovely mug shot, after meeting your same sex soulmate in the holding cell, and laugh at you for being such an idiot. Yeah, those names are public!  :o

^ can you at least admit that the trolley has brought more customer to area businesses without generating additional traffic/parking problems?

Trolley runs tonight.

Drivers do not make change, exact fare ($1.50 per trip) is required.

I would encourage you to buy passes ahead of time at either:
European Street Cafe
Intuition
Bold City
Grass roots
Let them Eat Cake
Green Man Gourmet -

Sure must be trolley weekend again as we have the crap weather!! Man has there been some ugly weather for these trials or what?? Sounds better for Saturday night at least.

Quote from: tufsu1 on March 06, 2014, 09:46:16 PM
^ can you at least admit that the trolley has brought more customer to area businesses without generating additional traffic/parking problems?

And that's what it's all about, after all.

Weather is perfect inside the trolley, and by accessing trolley.jaxmob.com from your smartphone you'll know exactly where the trolleys are at all times. That means you won't have to stay outside in inclement weather for long.

Rumor has it that Bold City Brewery has released their latest Bold Bean Coffee Stout collaberation and American Hustle is playing at Sun Ray Cinema tonight.  Sounds like a great plan for my trolley riding itenirary.

Quote from: edjax on March 07, 2014, 10:03:02 AM
Sure must be trolley weekend again as we have the crap weather!! Man has there been some ugly weather for these trials or what?? Sounds better for Saturday night at least.

In January, February and March you are expecting balmy breezes?  That said I am reeeely tired of winter too.

I would say the past two winters to this one were rather balmy. In fact my point is just seems this weekend has always been bad these past three months. You know kind of unlike last weekends balmy weather.  ;)

No one seems to have an answer to this question. I live in Arlington. If I drive to Riverside to ride the trolley is there a place to park?  The trolley seems to be geared toward people who live in the Riverside/Avondale area.

^^seems like you could just park in a lot or on the street near any of the stops and use the trolley.

Looks like there might be some spots along the way with adequate parking. A link to the route is below:

http://riversideavondalenighttrolley.com/about/
(http://riversideavondalenighttrolley.com/about/)

I'd imagine it would be more or less like any other weekend. Parking won't be the easiest but there should be plenty of parking a block or two away from your destination.

Whatever increase the RA area gets in activity and customers is balanced out by more people from the neighborhood leaving their cars at home.

The trolley REALLY needs your support tonight.

Experience how convenient transit works tonight by riding the trolley.  Go to www.riversideavondalenighttrolley.com (http://www.riversideavondalenighttrolley.com) to access a map and learn how to ride.. Or like it in Facebook.

Use it or lose it!!!

Ridership for Night Trolley last weekend a little disappointing. Down from 1408 in Feb to 1171 this month. Numbers were 278 on Friday and 793 on Saturday. Still better than the opening weekend in January with 963.

Quotehttp://jacksonville.com/news/2014-06-27/story/riverside-night-trolley-service-permanent

Riverside night trolley service is permanent in Jacksonville

Trolleys will run first Friday, Saturday each month
Posted: June 27, 2014 - 3:50pm  |  Updated: June 27, 2014 - 5:28pm

By Nate Monroe
Traveling just got a little easier for Riverside and Avondale patrons on some weekend nights.

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority board this week approved a permanent Riverside-Avondale Night Trolley service that will run Friday and Saturday nights during the first weekend of each month.

The service, which had been a pilot program since January, was originally set to run through July 4.

In the first five months of service, the trolley carried 1,122 passenger trips per weekend, and about 28 passengers per hour, which was enough for JTA staff to recommend making it a permanent service. In a staff report to the board, JTA officials said the trolley demonstrated an ability to "attract strong ridership."

It will cost the authority about $30,000 per year to operate the trolleys.

The night trolley stops throughout the neighborhood residential and commercial districts in Five Points, Park and King streets, the Avondale shopping district, the area's "Brewery District, " Stockton and College streets and the St. Johns Village area.

A mobile-optimized website (trolley.jaxmob.com) will show current route locations of the trolleys on each night.

One ride pass can be purchased for $1.50 with exact change on the trolley. Seniors (60 and older) ride free. Unlimited-ride single-day passes are $4 each, and can only be purchased in advance, from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Saturday, at the Riverside Arts Market, or at various businesses in the Riverside-Avondale neighborhood.

More information can be found at riversideavondalenighttrolley.com.

Hello all. Trolley numbers have stunk the last two months. The trolley needs you to ride it this weekend and next month in order for this service to continue next year. A few merchants have discussed the possibility of providing some measure of financial support, but ridership levels must rebound and show that these last two months were simply an anomonly due to bad weather.

Please invite as many friends as possible to use the service this Friday and Saturday night.

Thank you in advance.

Two factors have prevented me from riding.

1. Weather... Why does it always rain the 1st full weekend of the month?

2. Just paid rent so I don't really have money to burn

The downtown extension not running is also a thorn in my side...

Can't control the weather. Let's show some love to a great service.

Is the downtown/brookyln trolley ever going to be running again? or did it fail its trial run?

Why not just schedule a frequent bus and kill the gimmick? If BRT is, as Lake says, lipstick on a pig, then the JTA 'trolley' is lipstick and a tutu on a pig. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Quote from: johnnyliar on November 03, 2014, 01:03:39 PM
Is the downtown/brookyln trolley ever going to be running again? or did it fail its trial run?

The one month downtown trial had very strong numbers. Then, the R/A ridership fell flat on its face the following two months (and I emphasize the flat on its face part).

Ridership needs to be sustainable for this to work. Which means, people need to ride this weekend. That's the bottom line.

A downtown extension can happen if it can be proven that the last two months were simply a weather-driven anomoly.

Quote from: stephendare on November 03, 2014, 04:09:35 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 03, 2014, 03:17:11 PM
Why not just schedule a frequent bus and kill the gimmick? If BRT is, as Lake says, lipstick on a pig, then the JTA 'trolley' is lipstick and a tutu on a pig. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

why be an assho provocateur about a pretty good attempt to marry transit to urban solutions to commecial and entertainment growth in residential areas?  Just because its not an actual fixed trolley system doesn't make transit less important to urban needs, ock.

And many of us who you consider friends have worked on, supported, or believed in this experiment.

+1

Surely JTA must be aware that on a choice rider service, if it's raining or freezing cold, the ridership won't be there. This is the second or third time over the year this experiment has been running that there's been talk of canceling it because of a lack of ridership, following a bout of bad weather.

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 04, 2014, 07:17:07 AM
Surely JTA must be aware that on a choice rider service, if it's raining or freezing cold, the ridership won't be there. This is the second or third time over the year this experiment has been running that there's been talk of canceling it because of a lack of ridership, following a bout of bad weather.

I don't know that there's talk about cancelling, but as a business you want to be trending upward, not downward. If two bad months becomes 4, 6, 10 - then cancellation would probably be on the table. As riders if you miss a couple months due to weather (or anything else), perhaps it becomes one of those things you forget about because you haven't done it in awhile.

Success depends on ridership - bad weather or not.

How they can even think about cancelling this with several new apartment buildings going in on Riverside Ave avenue is mind boggling. Yes everyone should support this, but we need regular service to make this work. That being said i will be taking a ride this weekend.

I have not utilized the Trolley.I am not alone in this response.
I continue to access RA establishments pretty much exactly as I have for the past twenty years.Per usual, when accessing via vehicle I refrain from parking in adjacent neighborhood. This method does not require apps, nor driving,parking and then boarding a trolley,only to then return to private conveyance.

Indeed there are times when  traditional parking spots or establishment conditions become too crowded......my wife & I have developed a certain response .....we just skip it!!! Probably saved many hundreds of dollars in a relatively short time.

Could buy a really nice bicycle with those save bucks.That would make for three bikes.

Perhaps an age and generational thing. "Bar Hop" need not extend along miles long corridor,condensed in to one evening.I figure I'm hammering it pretty hard hitting three or four in one easy block.

Bumping this up.

Your support (by riding the trolley) this weekend is extremely important and very much appreciated.

Here's a privately run nightlife trolley:

http://www.kctrolleytours.com/route.html (http://www.kctrolleytours.com/route.html)

If JTA decides not to continue with this maybe an entrpreneurial solution would work.

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on November 05, 2014, 10:12:11 AM
Here's a privately run nightlife trolley:

http://www.kctrolleytours.com/route.html (http://www.kctrolleytours.com/route.html)

If JTA decides not to continue with this maybe an entrpreneurial solution would work.

Whatever you do don't let Ock see this... he'll start mocking KC for their "trolley" too.

Quote from: stephendare on November 03, 2014, 04:09:35 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 03, 2014, 03:17:11 PM
Why not just schedule a frequent bus and kill the gimmick? If BRT is, as Lake says, lipstick on a pig, then the JTA 'trolley' is lipstick and a tutu on a pig. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

why be an assho provocateur about a pretty good attempt to marry transit to urban solutions to commecial and entertainment growth in residential areas?  Just because its not an actual fixed trolley system doesn't make transit less important to urban needs, ock.

And many of us who you consider friends have worked on, supported, or believed in this experiment.

LOL Stephen. You apparently missed the first 7 words in my reply? Without trying to go into transit 101, a basic electric bus can be had for about the same price as the silly faux 'trolleys,' a new clean-diesel even cheaper. The electric bus runs on new high tech batteries and recharges at each stop with an induction system. It can be a true low floor, multi-door bus for quick easy loading and unloading and you don't have to paint it to look like a 1. trolley, 2. plane, 3. train, 4. automobile or 5. leprechaun. You don't need a trick pony to make this service unique and it don't have to be on rails, or monorail beams.

Make use of those transit dollars for transit, not plywood and ginger bread.

No tracks under these babies:

http://www.youtube.com/v/dp3_zUgD6KE?version=3&hl=en_US

http://www.youtube.com/v/lrnpvGyAX8o?hl=en_US

http://www.youtube.com/v/p4L20yc4JxE?hl=en_US

Do you have a list of which businesses have passes right now?

Quote from: MissMinda on November 05, 2014, 05:50:22 PM
Do you have a list of which businesses have passes right now?

Grassroots, Mellow Mushroom, European Street Cafe, Bold City Brewery, Intuition, Silver Cow.

Let Them Eat Cake and Open Road Bicycles of Avondale should have gotten restocked this week.

field - is this weekend restricted only to Riverside and Avondale or are the buses also going downtown too? TIA.

Quote from: mtraininjax on November 06, 2014, 07:10:05 AM
field - is this weekend restricted only to Riverside and Avondale or are the buses also going downtown too? TIA.

Riverside and Avondale only.

Is there a chance of the Downtown extension coming back anytime soon?

Quote from: jaxjaguar on November 06, 2014, 09:17:07 AM
Is there a chance of the Downtown extension coming back anytime soon?

Ridership must stabilize on one route before another can be considered. A drop in ridership the last two months was not helpful. That's why this weekend and next month are critical to show that the previous two months were weather-driven anomalies.

Certainly appreciate everyone's support.  Beyond convenience and fun... there are many ancillary benefits of the trolley. It helps with circulation problems (less cars making unnecessary short trips which contributes to parking distribution problems), is a boost to neighboring businesses and helps to reduce drinking and driving.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 05, 2014, 04:53:47 PM

Quote from: stephendare on November 03, 2014, 04:09:35 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 03, 2014, 03:17:11 PM
Why not just schedule a frequent bus and kill the gimmick? If BRT is, as Lake says, lipstick on a pig, then the JTA 'trolley' is lipstick and a tutu on a pig. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

why be an assho provocateur about a pretty good attempt to marry transit to urban solutions to commecial and entertainment growth in residential areas?  Just because its not an actual fixed trolley system doesn't make transit less important to urban needs, ock.

And many of us who you consider friends have worked on, supported, or believed in this experiment.

LOL Stephen. You apparently missed the first 7 words in my reply? Without trying to go into transit 101, a basic electric bus can be had for about the same price as the silly faux 'trolleys,' a new clean-diesel even cheaper. The electric bus runs on new high tech batteries and recharges at each stop with an induction system. It can be a true low floor, multi-door bus for quick easy loading and unloading and you don't have to paint it to look like a 1. trolley, 2. plane, 3. train, 4. automobile or 5. leprechaun. You don't need a trick pony to make this service unique and it don't have to be on rails, or monorail beams.

Make use of those transit dollars for transit, not plywood and ginger bread.

No tracks under these babies:

http://www.youtube.com/v/dp3_zUgD6KE?version=3&hl=en_US

http://www.youtube.com/v/lrnpvGyAX8o?hl=en_US

http://www.youtube.com/v/p4L20yc4JxE?hl=en_US

Folks on this site are always telling us we should hit some singles instead of swinging for the fences every time (and often striking out). In this case, you seem to be decrying the incremental improvement because it's not a huge overhaul of the bus system. That's why it's hard your attitude is hard to understand.

Tried using the extra cards I bought a few months ago to take my buddies out tonight. Apparently they expire... That was embarrassing. Looks like we're driving  >:(  :-[ 

They are not supposed to expire. But cards sold in the 80s do have a shelf life, unlike the wit of some of the posters, er posers.

Quote from: jaxjaguar on November 07, 2014, 08:24:52 PM
Tried using the extra cards I bought a few months ago to take my buddies out tonight. Apparently they expire... That was embarrassing. Looks like we're driving  >:(  :-[

They dont expire. Are you sure you didnt already use those cards once before?

Quote from: fieldafm on November 10, 2014, 08:47:55 AM

Quote from: jaxjaguar on November 07, 2014, 08:24:52 PM
Tried using the extra cards I bought a few months ago to take my buddies out tonight. Apparently they expire... That was embarrassing. Looks like we're driving  >:(  :-[

They dont expire. Are you sure you didnt already use those cards once before?

Positive. I bought 8 in July and took 3 friends. They didn't give me their cards back, so there's no way the ones I tried to use the other night had already been used.

I am the target market for this service.  I have never used it.

The problem I see is that you have to be far too intentional for the avg person to use the trial trolley.  I was out last weekend, and saw a trolley.  "Oh yeah! Trolleys this weekend.  We should definitely take that sometime."

Making it a regular route (actually trolley or otherwise) is absolutely critical.  People, in my experience, start off with plans by asking "what are we going to do?" 

"Go out in Riverside...we should take the trolley"  needs to be an auto-response.  Save a few metrojaxers no one is going to consistently build their night around their method of transportation.

Currently I love the idea, but I'm trying to remember when it runs, where it runs, etc.  If there was something running through the urban core on a regular basis it would start showing up on people's mental list of transport options.

A multi-month trial period w/ full, regular service during a period of nice weather is what is needed to ingrain it in people's minds.  Now, how you get that accomplished is obviously a little more difficult.

Quote from: fieldafm on November 06, 2014, 12:13:05 PM

and helps to reduce drinking and driving.

???

What a hilarious stretch,if not in fact dangerous.

How many trolley users access the area via driving personal vehicle-utilize trolley- end up back at personal vehicle? 2 am

Does trolley deliver riders directly to final destination,and next morning bring 'em back to private vehicle? Great service!

Locals who might utilize trolley solely- no driving- might be inclined to drink more, a definite trolley utilization safety factor, promotion,on the order of Cab service.

Interesting "Experiment".

Quote from: mtraininjax on February 14, 2014, 09:08:03 AM
Was at Lola's last night, Carlos was packed on a Thursday. I know the trolley has brought customers to places that were not on the patron's "path" a few months ago. Silver Cow was packed Regina said, albeit for the bar glass gate issues. She sold out of most beers and wine, she said it was a lot more than she figured.

As the weather gets better too, look for higher numbers. Would be nice to see a major festival on the same date as the trolley, like the beerfest coming up at RAM/Riverside Rotary Club on the 22nd, to have the trolley extended for a day. Maybe JTA will see the value for the fall when there is the Riverside Wine Festival or Christmas in Avondale.

....so much for 'reduced drinking' hypothesis.......'Hic  eerrr,wuz that drinkin' & drivin' angle????  Gooot one for that too I bet Hic! Nobody allowed to drive,period. Just drank is all that happens.Nobody drives.

^Killer drop in. So now we know Metro Jax's own version of the Time Cube guy (http://www.timecube.com) can't conceive of a world where Riverside residents walk a few blocks to a bus stop. Being 50 Feet Away From Car is EDUCATED STUPID. Not driving at all times reject FOUR SIMULTANEOUS DAYS EARTH ROTATION and is EVIL LIE. PiIZZA IS EVIL LIE.

Quote from: Know Growth on November 10, 2014, 06:38:14 PM

Quote from: fieldafm on November 06, 2014, 12:13:05 PM

and helps to reduce drinking and driving.

???

What a hilarious stretch,if not in fact dangerous.

How many trolley users access the area via driving personal vehicle-utilize trolley- end up back at personal vehicle? 2 am

Does trolley deliver riders directly to final destination,and next morning bring 'em back to private vehicle? Great service!

Locals who might utilize trolley solely- no driving- might be inclined to drink more, a definite trolley utilization safety factor, promotion,on the order of Cab service.

Interesting "Experiment".

The majority of riders are local to R/A. I operate from data (4 months of on board rider surveys) not wild assumptions like yourself.

Quote from: Tacachale on November 06, 2014, 01:54:52 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 05, 2014, 04:53:47 PM

Quote from: stephendare on November 03, 2014, 04:09:35 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 03, 2014, 03:17:11 PM
Why not just schedule a frequent bus and kill the gimmick? If BRT is, as Lake says, lipstick on a pig, then the JTA 'trolley' is lipstick and a tutu on a pig. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

why be an assho provocateur about a pretty good attempt to marry transit to urban solutions to commecial and entertainment growth in residential areas?  Just because its not an actual fixed trolley system doesn't make transit less important to urban needs, ock.

And many of us who you consider friends have worked on, supported, or believed in this experiment.

LOL Stephen. You apparently missed the first 7 words in my reply? Without trying to go into transit 101, a basic electric bus can be had for about the same price as the silly faux 'trolleys,' a new clean-diesel even cheaper. The electric bus runs on new high tech batteries and recharges at each stop with an induction system. It can be a true low floor, multi-door bus for quick easy loading and unloading and you don't have to paint it to look like a 1. trolley, 2. plane, 3. train, 4. automobile or 5. leprechaun. You don't need a trick pony to make this service unique and it don't have to be on rails, or monorail beams.

Make use of those transit dollars for transit, not plywood and ginger bread.

No tracks under these babies:

http://www.youtube.com/v/dp3_zUgD6KE?version=3&hl=en_US

http://www.youtube.com/v/lrnpvGyAX8o?hl=en_US

http://www.youtube.com/v/p4L20yc4JxE?hl=en_US

Folks on this site are always telling us we should hit some singles instead of swinging for the fences every time (and often striking out). In this case, you seem to be decrying the incremental improvement because it's not a huge overhaul of the bus system. That's why it's hard your attitude is hard to understand.

I have no problem with the concept. No problem to expanding it... downtown, San Marco, Saint Nicholas... wherever the demand can meet JTA's criteria for the new shuttle services.

I believe my observations and comments may have been taken that it is my dislike of the vehicle and thus I'm against hitting a single. NOT AT ALL-IN FACT THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE. My comments are from a former supervisor of Tamiami Trailways (part of Greyhound today under former Trailways management).

I don't merely hate the PCT's for being PCT's, it's the FACT that they are expensive gimmicks and prone to very short life-spans for the transit dollar. In other words, had a director at Trailways ordered a fleet of wood paneled, 'woody' plated Eagle-10 motor coaches, he would have been fired on the spot... and with good reason.

No my argument is not against any new or improved JTA services... As my name "Ocklawaha-The Transit Guy" indicates, I am coming at this strictly from a sustainability and cost prospective. A long-life electric bus with a standard interior can be and the elimination of engine and exhaust related costs can add up to $135,000 in savings over the lifetime of the bus. That's enough savings to institute a completely new and complimentary route making this service longer lived.


The electrics can be ordered with 'docking,' and 'docking lights,' this means as they arrive at a stop, they can go into a auto-pilot mode and pull to within 2" of the curb. Buzzed patrons are not likely to find that nearly as intimidating as a set of steps. Not only can they 'dock,' they are of the new low floor technology meaning the floor is at curb height. You simply walk in and walk out, just like modern light-rail/streetcars.

On another point, anybody recall the recent 'downtown', 'south side' and 'Durkeeville' "PCT-trolleys?" They serve in the summer at the beaches, in the winter, except for special occasions, they sit on the bus lot. An electric could just shift to a regular route giving us a more transit friendly investment. 

Just as an aside from the great concept of this service or future services, we, the riding public should encourage (if not demand) JTA rethink it's expensive trick-pony and give us something truly transit. The moral of my post? Get rid of the damn PCT's by attrition whilst introducing transit buses.

TAMIAMI TRAILWAYS... Signing Out!

^I think you're letting your general dislike of "potato chip trucks" get in the way of seeing this particular project realistically.

Quote from: Tacachale on November 11, 2014, 11:28:19 AM
^I think you're letting your general dislike of "potato chip trucks" get in the way of seeing this particular project realistically.

+1000

More like hoping for success of this project, and retirement of the PCT's through attrition, hence a sane fiscally responsive approach to expanding on it. What I really hate is the waste of money when it is so damn hard to get JTA to do this or anything else productive.

Avondale routine discussion:

Hey!....let's go Out Tonight!
Yea!
Maybe even King Street!?
.......naw,let's stay Local.
Yea!!!!!

How about Riverside/Avondale "Trolley" to Neptune Beach? ( I'm dying for a Ragtime "Brick",apparently carefully unavailable in the 'Hood.....how bad can it be??)

Quote from: stephendare on November 11, 2014, 01:58:57 PM


probably because no matter what they do, they will face criticism.  Even when they do things that the criticizing group is asking them to do.  Its a real disincentive to listen to anything when that happens.

Evil RAP? Did RAP "ask" for Trolley or rather,warmly and effectively embrace "Experiment"?

So I road the trolley this weekend. We left about 9p to catch a movie at Sunray. For my location its a bit of a pain I had to walk a mile from McDuff near Remington to get to it, just to ride another mile to my destination. The way back we had to wait about 30 minutes for the 1-2am slow down, we were tempted to go get a drink at a near by bar but didn't want to miss the last bus of the night. I am not sure how a feel about not having a set schedule, I appreciate the GPS but at least if I knew there was set bus I could plan better, not to mention the 10 minute bus break does not help the matter in our planning. Overall i want the bus to succeed and will continue to support but I hope it can get some tweaks.

Which stop did you get on the trolley at? From Remington to the pickup spot at Park on McDuff is less than half a mile. Even walking to St. Johns to catch the trolley headed the other way isn't that much further, and not really necessary since the trolley gets through the Fishweir/Shoppes area pretty quickly.

Quote from: Tacachale on November 11, 2014, 12:05:59 AM
^Killer drop in. So now we know Metro Jax's own version of the Time Cube guy (http://www.timecube.com) can't conceive of a world where Riverside residents walk a few blocks to a bus stop. Being 50 Feet Away From Car is EDUCATED STUPID. Not driving at all times reject FOUR SIMULTANEOUS DAYS EARTH ROTATION and is EVIL LIE. PiIZZA IS EVIL LIE.

Indeed, comments were not oriented "where Riverside residents walk"......more related to relatively far away outside Avondale Trolley reaches............hello?....hey can you hear this potential/assumed Trolley customer base....... helo?......sorry,weak or no signal

It's official.
No future RAP land use/rezone applications under curtain assumed "Parking" 'mitigation/alleviation' "Experiment "
should reasonably prevail during the relative future.

I love a certain Central Californian town Trolleys! So glad to have experienced!"Real"

Now we see certain Miami Fla moves to push for re-zone sans "Parking requirement".First ever for Miami, 20+ years ahead of us.
Don't ever forget the "Ahead" aspect.

Quote from: Know Growth on November 13, 2014, 08:05:22 PM

Quote from: Tacachale on November 11, 2014, 12:05:59 AM
^Killer drop in. So now we know Metro Jax's own version of the Time Cube guy (http://www.timecube.com) can't conceive of a world where Riverside residents walk a few blocks to a bus stop. Being 50 Feet Away From Car is EDUCATED STUPID. Not driving at all times reject FOUR SIMULTANEOUS DAYS EARTH ROTATION and is EVIL LIE. PiIZZA IS EVIL LIE.

Indeed, comments were not oriented "where Riverside residents walk"......more related to relatively far away outside Avondale reaches............hello?....hey can you hear this potential/assumed Trolley customer base....... helo?......sorry,weak or no signal

It's official.
No future land use/rezone applications under curtained assumed "Parking" 'mitigation/alleviation' "Experiment "
should reasonably prevail.

Einstein Was ONEist Brain. Know growth is WISEST HUMAN. Try My Belly-Button  Logic. (http://www.timecube.com)

Reply to above:

Internecine

I witnessed your first posts,some 4,000 + ago.

Luckily I have been absent MJ view for long stretches.

You,Tach, are clearly stretched.

Good for "views". Perhaps.

Quote from: Know Growth on November 13, 2014, 08:05:22 PM


Indeed, comments were not oriented "where Riverside residents walk"......more related to relatively far away outside Avondale Trolley reaches............hello?....hey can you hear this potential/assumed Trolley customer base....... helo?......sorry,weak or no signal

It's official.
No future RAP land use/rezone applications under curtain assumed "Parking" 'mitigation/alleviation' "Experiment "
should reasonably prevail during the relative future.

I love a certain Central Californian town Trolleys! So glad to have experienced!"Real"

Now we see certain Miami Fla moves to push for re-zone sans "Parking requirement".First ever for Miami, 20+ years ahead of us.
Don't ever forget the "Ahead" aspect.

This thread just keeps getting stranger...   :o

How much of OPM have yall lost on this failed experiment?

Any word on how Christmas in Avondale will impact the trolley on Saturday, Mike?

Obviously, the trolley will be the best way to get to Christmas in Avondale.

JTA will be modifying the route, to come close to St Johns Ave instead of through St Johns Ave through the Shoppes of Avondale. I don't exactly know the route modification yet. Hopefully will know tomorrow for sure.

I love the trolley and have ridden it almost every month it has been in operation, but the app is not working tonight, and everyone at every stop is complaining about it. I really miss the app.

Trolley running every weekend starting in March:


The Riverside Avondale Night Trolley is about to become the latest fixture in Jacksonville's nightlife, with weekly service beginning March 4.
The trolley, operated by the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, had been running on a monthly basis, but will now run every weekend from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m. on Friday and Saturday nights.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/02/16/breakingjtas-night-trolley-to-begin-weekly-weekend.html?ana=e_jac_bn_breakingnews&u=11189397374e6a451121b1b0bac0c5&t=1455634805

Dang, that's awesome!

So stoked for this!
Now if they would just have a stop in Murray Hill so I wouldn't have to bike out of the neighborhood to get on.

Wow, so bus connections to Downtown and San Marco? Do you have to go through Rosa Parks to transfer?

To Downtown you wouldn't - both the Trolley and Route 5 Stops at Five Points and Park/King. Route 5 doesn't have nearly the trolley's headways later in the evening though. Last Bus leaves Park/King North @ about 11:30PM, and Last Bus leaves Downtown about the same time.

To San Marco you'd have to transfer, so if you went from the trolley it would be two transfers - unlikely anyone is going to do that versus an Uber.

This is awesome! Progress! I cant find any info on the JTA website unfortunately. Also, despite the progress I really wish we were closer to connecting all of the core (including MH, Springfield, and San Marco)

It's on the front page - scroll down to the news releases towards the bottom.

Agreed on the core. Besides Downtown, I think Murray Hill is the obvious one - it's separated only by Roosevelt Blvd.

Funding in jeopardy for weekend trolley

QuoteCurrently the trolley averages 150 to 200 trips each weekend, but to continue as a viable public transportation option long term, trolley ridership needs to reach an average of 500 trips per weekend.

http://residentnews.net/2016/06/01/34395/ (http://residentnews.net/2016/06/01/34395/)

Sounds like the Trolley is about to die, yet again.....

With more flexible options in Uber and Lyft I do not see the Trolley gaining consistent traction.

I love the trolley but I have to walk a half mile to catch it.  This is the same reason I stopped riding the bus when they removed my station on roosevelt. This is not a big deal if you have a group of friends together getting ready to make a night of it and your have plenty of time, but it is a big deal when you are running late to hit up a movie at sunray. They should think  about experimenting with the routes and routing through some of the residential areas and not just the main drags.

Sad to see the service no gaining as much traction as it has before especially now that they're operating every weekend instead of once a month. But I was wondering about any proposals to expand it to DT or at least to Brooklyn now that the area is full of new residents and businesses. 

I know Uber and Lyft has the possibility of cutting into the numbers potential transit riders, but if their insane surge pricing rules are anything like in my neck of the woods, having the option of the trolley late at night is a blessing.

Quote from: jlmann on June 03, 2016, 03:15:51 PM
not gonna work unless its operation is expansive, consistent and long-term enough to infiltrate the consciousness ie its an auto-response:  "going ____? oh, i'll just take the trolley"

getting there not going to happen without subsidy from the gubment.  a concept as popular around here as naming your kid Adolf.

so, trolley- maybe we try again in a few years?

Well the trolley went from one weekend a month to every weekend. The JTA enlisted local businesses on the route who have a stake in its success to sponsor the trolley. But the ridership still isn't there. When it launched it had a high of 1,900 for a weekend. More recently its been under 200. The route was improved. There is a new mobile ticketing option.  You can track the trolley on your phone so you don't have to wait around for it. Still no people.

Any thought on morphing the trolley into the proposed SW BRT route through Riverside? I believe the Flyer BRT is supposed to have late night service and operate at 10-15 minute headways. If you can find a way to get a stop at Five Points, Park & King and St Johns Avenue on its way from downtown to Orange Park, these districts are then connected with reliable everyday service. Plus that service would be paid for with federal and JTA money.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Roads-and-Bridges/Blanding-Park-Mobility-Works/i-zwMMJkx/0/X2/fcf_brt_southwest-900x1000.jpg)

As it stands now, the proposed route will serve Five Points (stop 13) and Park & King (stop 12). However, the other stop (Stop 11) misses the Shoppes of Avondale by a few blocks.

Obviously would kill the trolley but is this a good area for those golf cart taxis that have been sweeping the nation?

QuoteWell the trolley went from one weekend a month to every weekend. The JTA enlisted local businesses on the route who have a stake in its success to sponsor the trolley. But the ridership still isn't there. When it launched it had a high of 1,900 for a weekend. More recently its been under 200. The route was improved. There is a new mobile ticketing option.  You can track the trolley on your phone so you don't have to wait around for it. Still no people.

Still no people? The issue isn't the route, its the plan, it sucks! There is no marketing plan, no strategy, nothing. I know most if not all of the sponsors of the trolley and have a lot of background info on it, the plan is terrible. The Beaches Trolley works because they had a plan for its execution. There are signs of where you can go to pick it up. They started with paper maps, and the trolley was at the stops with dedicated TIMES, it worked. People would rider it instead of driving, and the cops in Jax beach are true douches as they pull over anything for cause, so it was easier to ride the trolley there, signs of where to pickup.

Fast forward to Riverside Avondale, the only way you know where to go for the trolley is by looking at the myjax app. That is great, but what about grey-hairs, they ain't gonna look at an app to figure out where to pick up the ride. Give 'em paper. Give people the option. There are NO signs at any of the stops to know you can pickup the trolley HERE. One restaurant offers a deal for the trolley, another doesn't. There is no cohesiveness. Its a smattering here and there, but no real plan. Its terrible and a shame, because the trolley works at the beach, but not in Riverside Avondale.

From a friend's post about his experience trying to pickup a ride...

Quote
Oh, my gosh....I tried to use the trolley one night when I had been drinking. After waiting over 30 minutes at midnight I became an angry drunk and I pitched a fit on social media. (You know, sometimes drinking + smartphone = danger.) But, I will say that I find the trolley as it is now to have certain weaknesses. I have a lot to say about it: Of course it does not run frequently enough. And it seems to taper off towards the end of the night, when it is most needed. (I'm not saying that's when it would be "most used" but "most needed" -- as in getting ppl safely home who have decided to rely on the trolley.) The trolley is advertised as running 6pm til 2am, but that does not mean that a person can catch one at 2am (of course). 2am is probably the time the horses are put back in the barn. So, greater awareness of the last pickup at each location would be useful.

The person from RAP who replied to me said that I should have been using the App to track the trolley's movements. They said that RAP mentions the app in every post. I did not want to download a MyJTA app, not knowing how large it was and how long it would take, while I was not on wifi. What I wanted was the website with an embedded tracking map that has existed since the trolley was first launched, and I could not find it anywhere. The website [ http://trolley.jaxmob.com/ ] is unofficial, as far as I know; so I get that they promote the official MyJTA app.

But I think that you can also understand I only wanted a real-time map of where the trolleys were not some full-blown app developed by JTA that I had zero confidence in. Speaking of confidence, I did not feel much when I visited the trolley's official (?) website at  https://riversideavondalenighttrolley.com/ . The post on the front page is dated 2013. It has images of maps instead of interactive maps. Why can't the tracking map be embedded on the damn front page???! (You see this stuff makes me angry -- I just don't understand the attitude of people who defensively act like they have created something great when it's clear that it could be much better.)

I feel that the entire operation, from its Facebook presence to its other websites, are run like a PR campaign with useless promotional images rather than like a transportation provider. (To be fair, I'm talking about RAP's websites -- don't even get me started on how awful JTA's site is!) 

Basically, the trolley is an okay option for those who plan ahead, download the apps to their phones when it's convenient, and make sure that they arrive at the stop at the right time so that they do not have to wait over half an hour, alone, in the dark, with no confidence that they will ever be picked up. For anyone desiring flexible transportation options that enable them to have a carefree night out on the town I recommend Uber. I realize the contradiction in me saying, I don't want to download an app, and recommending Uber that is exclusively app-based. But it's one I already have and it works well. I will download the JTA app some time and try it out. My idea of good public transportation is that it should be pervasive and easy to use.

I'll end with an anecdote. A month or two ago I took the trolley. I had to get from 5 Points to CoRK, which is about 80% of the route's entire figure-8 loop. That was my peculiar choice, and I was in no hurry. When we approached the point where the line crosses itself, my driver tried honking and other things to get the attention of the driver of the trolley in front of us, to no avail. If I could have switched trolleys I would have cut my travel time considerably.

That raises several questions to me: There is no way for drivers to communicate with each other? Did they ever consider a central hub on the figure 8 where changes would be possible? By the way, due to lack of riders we finished the circuit early and sat idle at the farthest point, near Fishweir school, for several minutes while the driver waited for the right time to restart the loop -- poor planning! If the loops began and ended at an intersecting point that could be a hub.

The trolley to me is not very good public transit. A good trolley would mimic a real, physical trolley, with easily identified routes going in both directions, or at the very least offer more frequent service and the ability to change at a central hub.

DAMN!

From Reliable sources....

Riverside Avondale Trolley has 6 months remaining to live, then it will be cancelled due to lack of ridership.

So use it, or lose it.

Quote from: mtraininjax on June 16, 2016, 10:37:19 AM
From Reliable sources....

... then it will be cancelled due to lack of ridership.

along with any hope of future fixed transit in Jacksonville

Keep your eyes out for this. It could reach Jax before any of the local proposals materialize....

(http://i.imgur.com/ixuf0HO.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/ixuf0HO.jpg

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-dec-high-speed-rail-project-has-its-eye-jacksonville

Problem with this has always been it doesn't adequately penetrate residential areas. Not to point out the obvious, but who's walking 15 minutes in 90-something degree heat, and 1/2 the time rain on top of it, to wait another 15 or 20 minutes on the trolley, to show up at the bar sweat-soaked. You could take the car in 5 minutes. If I didn't have to walk 8 blocks to use it maybe it'd have been useful, but I did so it wasn't. I kept trap shut about it until now, but when it goes from commercial area to commercial area, you still have that first leg from your house to the trolley to account for. The original trolley (streetcar) network worked because it connected residential to commercial, not commercial to commercial. The former is usable transportation, the latter is basically a novelty.

Whenever I've used it, the residential stops are the ones that are the least used.

The Trolley is working at the Beach, it can work in Riverside Avondale, in fact, it really needs to work, because the trends are showing that we will see more restaurants, more issues with parking and zoning will always be an issue.

The Riverside Avondale Trolley can work if it does the following things:
1)   Increase riders – Summer is a bad time for riders, people leave, go on vacation, travel. And its hot to wait 15-20 minutes for a bus. But Seniors over 65 ride free with the Senior Pass, so market more to those who could ride for free
2)   Add signs of where the trolley stops. They have them at the beach, if nothing start with the locations at the Shoppes in Avondale and then along Margaret Street in Riverside, so people who frequent the area, see where the bus starts and stops. Gotta be more visible!
3)   Paper maps – not everyone wants a bloated app to view the stops. Advertise on the maps with local vendors.
4)   Increase Social Awareness. There is about $3500 coming in per month from sponsors, limited mostly to restaurants. Expand the program to allow for social members, those who may not be open during the trolley hours, but who are along the route or in the neighborhood. Make various membership levels.
5)   Allow dogs on the Trolley, on a leash. People take their pets with them to so many dog friendly and dog ready places in the neighborhood. Make it easier for well-behaved pets to go with owners.
6)   Offer businesses the right to pay for tickets a weekend, all rides are free thanks to a business who is picking up the tab.
7)   Offer the RAP members the ability to buy a monthly pass or a Summer/Seasonal pass. This does 2 things, it increases riders AND it increases RAP members, a win-win for the area.

We have to make this work, its something needed for the future. We cannot complain all the time that we could use Uber for less or that its too hot to wait for it. It does penetrate the residential areas, if you look at the map of where it runs, it is within a couple of blocks of a majority of the residents. Besides the American Heart Association says we could all use more exercise in our days, so why not walk a couple more blocks, meet some new neighbors and be a part of something great?!

RA Trolley Nights program has been given another 6 months to show success. Lots of changes going to be happening, look for more information in the Resident or here. Did you know that the Beaches Trolley has no major sponsor, unlike Champion Brands who is a core sponsor. Lots of great and new ideas coming to help make it easier to get on and off, including the possibility of 3-circle routes that will connect to Brooklyn and maybe downtown. So stay tuned for more updates.

Quote from: mtraininjax on July 01, 2016, 11:00:50 AM
including the possibility of 3-circle routes that will connect to Brooklyn and maybe downtown.

Yes, this needs to happen. It will either float or sink but it is needed to test the viability of the night trolley.

I think it would work much better if JTA would make the trolley 7 days a week during the day, plus weekend nights. Put up easy to read maps in different parts of the neighborhood, so people from the neighbor would know where the stops are, and people from out of the neighborhood could park once and explore the entire historic district.

Being able to tie the Trolley into Brooklyn is a good start. If possible, I would use the parking garages on Riverside as pick up spots to make it easier for consumers who live outside of the area to visit on a Friday or Saturday night.

The trolley will only work when the alternatives are more onerous than using the trolley.  To that end, increased density and maxed out parking will set the stage for actual use.  Right now you are selling to no buyers...

QuoteI think it would work much better if JTA would make the trolley 7 days a week during the day, plus weekend nights.

Heck yeah! But you gotta prove the concept, so the weekend will have to suffice, to see that people will ride it on weekends....first.

QuoteRight now you are selling to no buyers...

Back in the Spring there were 500 riders per night, lots of "no-buyers", the summer is always tougher because people go places, vacations, its hot to just sit and wait. Lots more coming to engage with riders. Should be better and more fun for the riders along the way.

Quote from: mtraininjax on July 02, 2016, 01:39:40 PM

QuoteI think it would work much better if JTA would make the trolley 7 days a week during the day, plus weekend nights.

Heck yeah! But you gotta prove the concept, so the weekend will have to suffice, to see that people will ride it on weekends....first.

QuoteRight now you are selling to no buyers...

Back in the Spring there were 500 riders per night, lots of "no-buyers", the summer is always tougher because people go places, vacations, its hot to just sit and wait. Lots more coming to engage with riders. Should be better and more fun for the riders along the way.

500 per night? Sorry, but the trolley hasn't hit those numbers since 2014. From January-December 2014 the trolley averaged 921 riders per weekend for a yearly total of 11,057. In 2015, it dropped off to 271 average per weekend and a grand total of 3,532. That's a nearly 70% decline. Over the first six months of 2016, the trolley is trending upward. At its current pace it should reach around 5k for the year. That's less than half of the ridership in 2014 but up 41% over last year.

As for the "it's summer" argument - in June, July and August 2014 - the trolley averaged nearly 1,300 rides.

So where are all the people who road the throughout 2014? Buying passes is easier now than it was in 2014. You can buy right on your phone and track the trolley throughout its route in real time so you don't have to leave your house, or the bar/restaurant until right before the trolley arrives. It doesn't get much easier than that, I don' think.

The novelty of it wore off.

The parking really isn't that bad in R/A, therefore no need for a trolley right now. I can drive to my destination and find parking much quicker than walking and taking the trolley. And parking is free.

RAP needs to stop fighting places like The Roost if they ever expect the Trolley to be successful.

I just know from my perspective, that it is to difficult and expensive to use. If you could hop on for a dollar at a well marked pick up spot, and ride to a well marked drop off spot. I would use it more often.
On a different note, I think a well advertised, and marked trolley could do wonders for visitors to be able to experience the entire neighborhood. If you park in 5 points, and see a visible trolley presence with signs telling you where it goes (Avondale, Park & King etc) it would make R/A a great destination.

QuoteIt doesn't get much easier than that, I don' think.

The numbers are not that easy to pull out. For the Silver Star Card, the drivers are supposed to punch a simple button to get a count, do they all? Nope, so the numbers being thrown around, 1400, 271, 500, are at best.....estimates. Either JTA does not know exactly or they are not willing to give out the numbers, who knows, but exact numbers are not known. Summer is a real issue, ask the restaurants, ask retail shops, they will tell you their business declines during the summer. When a majority of the monthly sponsors are restaurants and state this, its more of an awareness issue out there.

QuoteThe novelty of it wore off.  The parking really isn't that bad in R/A, therefore no need for a trolley right now. I can drive to my destination and find parking much quicker than walking and taking the trolley. And parking is free.

New 100/150 seat restaurant in Avondale, Hoptinger and other restaurants set to open in 5 points, more coming to Brooklyn, the Trolley will find its spot in RA, Park street is already undergoing a change and it will take time to get people to ride it, use it and for JTA to figure out what is best for the residents.

Most new businesses fail in the first year of operations. The Trolley has been able to secure 14 sponsors and 1 corporate sponsor. Its never been done before, not even the Beaches Trolley has a corporate sponsor, per JTA. The RA trolley is special and there are some good changes coming down the road as the area expands and grows in restaurants.

People still believe that they should always get a place to park in front of wherever they go. There many not be a parking problem, but there is a walking problem. No one wants to walk a few blocks in the heat, during summer, maybe more valet will pop up too.

Here are the ridership numbers for the Riverside Night Trolley and Seasonal Beaches Trolley that ran this past weekend (7/29/16 -7/30/16).

Riverside Night Trolley
On Friday, the ridership was 60.
On Saturday, the ridership was 127.
The total ridership for the Riverside Night Trolley this past weekend was 187 riders.


Seasonal Beaches Trolley
On Friday, the ridership was 21.
On Saturday, the ridership was 31.
The total ridership for the weekend was 52 riders.

At these numbers, the Beaches Trolley may not make it.

She's closing down this month, per the JBJ.

Quotehttp://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/06/30/jta-approves-autonomous-vehicle-pilot-program.html

In other business, JTA cancelled the Riverside Night Trolley, route 71. The once successful 2014 pilot program had steadily lost ridership, falling to just 35 passengers for Friday and Saturday nights combined. July will be the route's final month. The route closure is expected to save JTA $17,000 annually.

The route passes by my house and I rarely saw some people on the bus. Downtown has to become more vibrant for the route to work.

^and it needed to go to hotels where people are readily able to obtain information about the route and schedule of the trolleys and it needed to run every night. Running one weekend a month is a recipe for disaster. It seems like the real missed opportunity was not having it hit the hotels downtown during the week when business people were in them and take them to places to eat dinner. I hate how when you go the JTA site and click on the trolley page it doesn't show a map of the route: http://www.jtafla.com/schedules/trolley/riverside-avondale-night-trolley/ Maybe I'm just dense, but I find the JTA website in general isn't very informative.

Quote from: remc86007 on June 30, 2017, 11:36:54 PM
^and it needed to go to hotels where people are readily able to obtain information about the route and schedule of the trolleys and it needed to run every night. Running one weekend a month is a recipe for disaster. It seems like the real missed opportunity was not having it hit the hotels downtown during the week when business people were in them and take them to places to eat dinner. I hate how when you go the JTA site and click on the trolley page it doesn't show a map of the route: http://www.jtafla.com/schedules/trolley/riverside-avondale-night-trolley/ Maybe I'm just dense, but I find the JTA website in general isn't very informative.

From that page:

QuoteThe Trolley can easily take you to eat, meet, shop, sun and fun. The Riverside Avondale Night Trolley features stops throughout the neighborhood residential and commercial districts, hitting Five Points, Park & King, the Shoppes of Avondale, the Brewery District, Stockton & College, and the St. John's Village areas. Customers can enjoy in the historic district and Downtown destinations like the Elbow or the Landing by connecting with a JTA bus.

How much sun are people getting on the Riverside Avondale Night Trolley?

I wished this would have worked out but poor marketing and lack of convenience killed it for me if I have to walk a half mile to hop on I might as well walk all the way to king st and only running on the first weekend of the month i hardly remembered it was there.

Quote from: jaxlore on July 03, 2017, 10:21:25 AM
I wished this would have worked out but poor marketing and lack of convenience killed it for me if I have to walk a half mile to hop on I might as well walk all the way to king st and only running on the first weekend of the month i hardly remembered it was there.

After the ridership dropped and saw no rebound, JTA met with R/A business, got their support (both marketing and financial) to run it every weekend. The businesses (led by Allan DeVault of Black Sheep) promoted the trolley, along with JTA social media. JTA added a mobile app where you could instantly buy your pass on your phone and track the next trolley to appeal to a younger, more mobile crowd - but ridership never improved. The trolley then went back to one weekend a month before being cancelled. Ridership peaked at about 1,900 for one weekend not long after the service opened. That showed great promise. But its hard to justify keeping a service operating when only 35 people ride it all weekend.

Well maybe with some autonomous vehicles running around soon they'll be able to reinvent it somehow.

I do think Uber and Lyft played a great deal into the challenges here. An Uber ride from Avondale to 5 Points is maybe $6, which if you have 3 people isn't fundamentally different than the Trolley, and is likely much faster.

QuoteI wished this would have worked out but poor marketing and lack of convenience killed it for me if I have to walk a half mile to hop on I might as well walk all the way to king st and only running on the first weekend of the month i hardly remembered it was there.

The marketing was there, from the local restaurants and the posters, as well as from the JTA. The problem(s) were the routes. In order to get to 5-points from Avondale, you had to travel down St. Johns, to King Street then back down Rosselle. At Rosselle and Stockton, the drivers were "forced" to take a 5-10 minute break, before driving down Stockton to Park to 5-points. This could take you 25-30 minutes depending on the stops.  No passes sold on the bus, and no one wants to wait in 5 points for a bus that is sitting at the Gate Station for "who knows" how long. The app was cool to see where buses were located, and sometimes after the initial push in the evening they would go from 3 buses to 1 bus.

Uber and Lyft were killers to this idea.