What Should Be Done With Downtown Jacksonville?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2977331725_B95Jjjd-M.jpg)
If you could change one thing about Downtown Jacksonville, what would it be? The Downtown Investment Authority is formulating a long-term, Business Investment and Development (BID) Strategy for downtown and there's three days left to provide your input. Has your opinion been heard?
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-dec-what-should-be-done-with-downtown-jacksonville
What should be done with DOWNTOWN JACKSONVILLE?
Open up the RIVER.
Don't you just love it.
Look at the picture you use. Tourists looking at a history marker next to Hooters at the Landing on our empty RIVER.
Open the RAM dock!
Dozens of other examples.
Tides look good. Allow me to show you the crushing of the Public Trust.
I would like to see all the condemn houses be torn down and trash pick make downtown a place where visitors and jax native can come and enjoy the downtown sights.
The development brought in by running a street car system from the skyway at the river, through downtown and up Main street would take care of the condemned houses. Firing a few at the top in the Municipal Code Compliance division would help a lot too as then perhaps we could get personnel running the show that used the federal funds for the right things and helped promote the urban areas rather than just illegally and improperly tearing them down. In fact, one of the biggest issues with the urban core has not been that there is no money to help promote it, it is that those funds are often abused and not used for their real intent. That seems like the first thing that needs fixed before anything else can move forward.
I agree but that's not a capital project that can be included in the CRA plan. Assuming we got our financial house in order first, what would you advocate for first as far as capital projects (infrastructure, parks, transit, etc.) go? Also, don't forget to make your suggestions known on the DIA's website:
http://imaginedtjax.mindmixer.com/
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-fRDGBbS/0/L/P1680848-L.jpg)
What's happening in DT Miami right now.
Welcome to Miami!
The first thing I hope everyone realizes is the Mayors Office in May 2013 put out a "Request For Information" (RFI) for Downtown, North and South bank development.
The RFI was done under the radar of the citizenry, without City Council knowledge AND even most of DIA knew nothing about it.
RFI though on line in the Procurement Dept. few people even know they exist let alone know where to look to find one BUT if your one of the good ole boy club you receive a personal invitation from Procurement to respond.
Not surprisingly there was only one response.
Something downtown doesnt need and is a royal stupid idea is a space needle. Not even to start with! Just hoping for growth to someday surround it. It is stupid because once anyone visits they have no reason to return. There is no draw to make them return again and again, etc.
PLUS the city nor PFPF has any right to risk tax payers money on such an "iffy" at best investment
I have approached CC and DIA multiple times with pictures of development sprouted around Ferris Wheels. The success of such a thing is proven time and time again around the country and even in England during the Jags game over there.
A 75 foot Ferris Wheel lit up to the hilt on the shipyard property can and will be seen from every bridge that crosses the river including the Dames Point. A Ferris Wheel will indeed STOP the usual pass through traffic on 95 to a stop for a ride, or two or three. Then again when they pass through on a return trip.
A Ferris Wheel will draw locals and those from surrounding counties to ride unlimited times. Especially visitors downtown for conventions, football games, baseball games, concerts at both the arena and met park. People will walk from the landing to ride this Ferris Wheel. Parking can even be free on the property AND on the sounthbank JEA property with a low cost ferry ride across the river.
Opportunity is unlimited.
Back to the RFI---The city needs to submit another RFI but this time needs to include the DIA and CC needs to have knowledge of it as well. The RFI needs to be sent to every amusement park across the country and across the pond in England and see not if, but how many investors will respond where Im sure they will.
The city need not GIVE or RISK any more tax payer money then what already comes with development of shipyard property that includes but is not limited to Enterprise Zone, QTI, DT Dev. etc
Heres is another extremely great benefit The Ferris Wheel and amusement park will be able to employ those within the city without college degrees that the OED is constantly catering to. Those from the military that can run a nuclear ship but no college can be employed. Those from the Northside with the citys highest unemployment rate can indeed be employable. Anyone with a desire to work can work in the NEW Jacksonville Jungle Amusement Park.
There is soooo much more I have designed for the development of the amusement park but that is enough for now.
Less government regulation of what goes where and how it will look. More freedom. Less red tape. Tax dollars should only go towards infrastructure, parking meter removal and traffic changes.
Navy Pier in Chicago and the London Eye
Im sorry I am unable to figure out how to post a picture. Ive never had trouble before posting these pic's and cant figure out why I cant on this site
Until I do please look here
http://www.navypier.com/things2do/things_home.html
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=london+eye+ferris+wheel&qpvt=london+eye+ferris+wheel&FORM=IGRE
Galveston water front and things like this are all over the country. Why not Jax?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=galveston+ferris+wheel&qpvt=galveston+ferris+wheel&FORM=IGRE
Redevelop most of those historical 1920s era office buildings into reasonably priced condos with roof top gardens, street level retail without those dreary reflective glass street level shop windows.
Quote from: Sunbeam on December 27, 2013, 09:56:22 AM
Galveston water front and things like this are all over the country. Why not Jax?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=galveston+ferris+wheel&qpvt=galveston+ferris+wheel&FORM=IGRE
Do you have any ridership data from those places? I was in Chicago last summer around the 4th of July and the Ferris Wheel at Navy Pier seemed relatively dead on a beautiful summer day. My hotel room in Daytona Beach a few months ago was facing the Ferris Wheel and I barely saw any ridership all weekend. I know the London Eye does well, but its a bit unique.
While, we're on Navy Pier, there are probably better lessons to take from Chicago imo. Creating a great public transportation system, investing heavily in public parks, partnering with the private sector to fundraise for parks, converting old warehouses/buildings into lofts, more public art, events, concerts, cultivating a great dining/foodie scene, and so on....These are the things that get people to move to and visit large cities like NYC, Chicago, San Fran, etc.
If someone wants to spend their own money to put up a Ferris Wheel have at it, but I don't know that it should be considered a public redevelopment strategy.
Over 8 million people visit the Navy Pier annually
BTW it is imperative this community get together to insist JTA STOP trying to force the next extension of the skyway to the Riverside area like they currently are.
Thus community needs to ban together to tell JTA if we are expected to invest even another dime to the skyway it NEEDS to go to the entertainment/sports complex that serves hundreds of thousands of people annually.
NOT Riverside for a maybe a couple of hundred. When there is more growth, maybe.
JTA, Nat Ford is bent on getting federal and state Grants for the skyway to riverside with the attitude of getting money for a mandatory local match... "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it".
THAT is unacceptable!
Quote from: Sunbeam on December 27, 2013, 10:58:30 AM
Over 8 million people visit the Navy Pier annually
How many ride the Ferris Wheel? There were tens of thousands on the Navy Pier when I was there and barely anyone on the Ferris Wheel...I have friends that live in Chicago and some of their friends grew up in Chicago. General consensus seemed to be the Navy Pier is nothing more than a gimmicky tourist trap. Its Chicago's Fisherman's Wharf without the Sea Lions.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 27, 2013, 08:52:39 AM
I agree but that's not a capital project that can be included in the CRA plan. Assuming we got our financial house in order first, what would you advocate for first as far as capital projects (infrastructure, parks, transit, etc.) go? Also, don't forget to make your suggestions known on the DIA's website:
http://imaginedtjax.mindmixer.com/
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Miami-2013/i-fRDGBbS/0/L/P1680848-L.jpg)
What's happening in DT Miami right now.
what a painful jpeg.....I dont think people understand whats going on in that photo.
id say stop running jta buses into the northbank & southbank areas, kill the rosa park bus loading area & the set one up at 8th & Main. Keep trying to court major events, people like to hate on Jacksonville for getting the Superbowl, but it was a learning experience & Jacksonville changed a lil because of it. Jacksonville needs to establish a habit of going after events, even if they get denied, just keep knocking on the door. The more major events the more people learn to be better. Id love to see the Skyway add some additional stations & run on weekends. More of what lake calls TODs near Skyway stations.
QuoteFiring a few at the top in the Municipal Code Compliance division would help a lot too
LOL! Just as the director of procurement how much "fun" it was to try and fire a person in one of his old departments, he told me they tried 4+ times to get rid of him, but the union protected him. Firing city personnel is not as easy as you might think, they are like protected wildlife.
I have been to the Navy Pier, never went for the ferris wheel. So there needs to be more, entertainment, shops, I went to those on the pier, people don't ride the ferris wheels at the fair, just to ride the ferris wheel, they ride the other rides, which make them sick so that they can appreciate the ferris wheel and all it has to offer. ???
Quote from: Sunbeam on December 27, 2013, 11:11:53 AM
BTW it is imperative this community get together to insist JTA STOP trying to force the next extension of the skyway to the Riverside area like they currently are.
Thus community needs to ban together to tell JTA if we are expected to invest even another dime to the skyway it NEEDS to go to the entertainment/sports complex that serves hundreds of thousands of people annually.
NOT Riverside for a maybe a couple of hundred. When there is more growth, maybe.
JTA, Nat Ford is bent on getting federal and state Grants for the skyway to riverside with the attitude of getting money for a mandatory local match... "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it".
THAT is unacceptable!
Extending the skyway a short distance to where hundreds of people currently work and hundreds more will soon live makes much more sense than extending it a long distance to where relatively few live or work and thousands come for a short time for events that occur less than daily.
The idea behind the Ferris wheel is to jump start development of an entire amusement park. All of should be paid for by private investment and no more incentive money then what the area already qualifies for as an Enterprise Zone, Brownfield, etc...
Shad Khan has expressed desire to invest $1 million in the ship yard, "The front door to the stadium"
Picture along with a ferris wheel in the NEW Jacksonville Jungle Amusement Park this is what visitors will see...A water park called the "Shark Zone" akin to Wild Adventures in Valdosta with 100 foot water slides (all lit up) and a lazy river that extends out over our own river, wave rider, among other things.
Roller coasters, Arcade, etc Big and small. Kiddie park called "Sunshine Park"
Everything within sight of a big screen TV to show concerts, Games, hearing cheers of the crowds both live and on screen.
Parking on the Southbank but it has attractions too after city gains control of the school board building with ferry running back and forth to shipyard like helicopter rides, Aquarium and there are ferry rides, dinner cruises up and down the river all the way up to the zoo where guests have entry to the zoo without extra cost if paid entry for the ferry ride.
Like Valdosta WE offer buy one day get the next day free which will help fill hotels.
THIS will indeed stop traffic from going south to Orlando (and possibly St.Augustine but that is a different venue) and north to Valdosta. AND prevent Jacksonville from being just a pass through town.
This is possible if "the powers that be" actually put this community first instead of the good ole boy club whom they routinely cater too
Quote from: Sunbeam on December 27, 2013, 11:11:53 AM
BTW it is imperative this community get together to insist JTA STOP trying to force the next extension of the skyway to the Riverside area like they currently are.
Thus community needs to ban together to tell JTA if we are expected to invest even another dime to the skyway it NEEDS to go to the entertainment/sports complex that serves hundreds of thousands of people annually.
NOT Riverside for a maybe a couple of hundred. When there is more growth, maybe.
JTA, Nat Ford is bent on getting federal and state Grants for the skyway to riverside with the attitude of getting money for a mandatory local match... "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it".
THAT is unacceptable!
I 100% disagree with you. The planned Riverside extension is primarily some track switches and one new station. It can be built for less than $10 million and serve hundreds of new apartments.
An extension to the sports complex would likely cost closer to $100 million and while there are thousands of people going to events there, the Skyway isn't designed to handle peak loads of that size.
Having gone to games in Atlanta, Philly, Baltimore, Boston, and DC and then hopping local rail after, I can tell you that the crowds are enormous. A Jaguars game would literally cripple the Skyway system.
Quote from: Sunbeam on December 27, 2013, 11:59:55 AM
The idea behind the Ferris wheel is to jump start development of an entire amusement park.
sorry, but downtown Jacksonville should not become an amusement park!
You quote Valdosta...have you been there? Just how well is Wild Adventures doing and how much development has been spurred in the area because of it?
"sorry, but downtown Jacksonville should not become an amusement park!"
Yes it should! Its called the entertainment/sports complex not high rise condominium complex!
The property needs to remain public and again an amusement park will make Jacksonville a destination and NOT a pass through town
The property is less than 40 acres of dry land. You'll need a lot more for an amusement park, if you want it to compete with what's offered in the rest of the state. A successful theme park won't be supported by Jax residents alone and a small one with a ferris wheel as the main attraction won't be enough to keep those driving (a chunk fly directly now) from going to Disney, Universal, Legoland, Busch Gardens instead. Places like Navy Pier aren't a success because of what they have. They are a byproduct of environments that already have millions of tourists.
Northbank, shipyard property is way bigger than 40 acres, Yes?
Dont forget the southbank too
Traffic will spend their money here at a fraction of the cost of Disney, Duval and surrounding counties even up to Ga. will make it do well
Navy Pier and surrounding area was dead for years until it became an amusement park
The JEA parcel is only 42 acres too.
Quote from: Sunbeam on December 27, 2013, 12:41:04 PM
Navy Pier and surrounding area was dead for years until it became an amusement park
Navy Pier is completely isolated, so not sure how you can talk about the surrounding area becoming vibrant. I believe no development can happen east of Lakeshore Drive, and the only building east of it is grandfathered in.
AND for cruise visitors, away team visitors, offers can be made with discounts for the amusement park
If they are not going to do the right things with it, or even, if they are not going to do anything with it, just bulldoze it and leave it empty, or bulldoze it and build every building new, with all blocks filled in with buildings and skyscrapers with NO parking garages, parking lots, or empty parking lots! Use it or lose it!!!
The Laura Trio/Barnett and Bostwick buildings are what the city needs to focus on. Doing so will save several historic buildings, being vibrancy to a total dead-zone, create more customers for The Landing and Laura Street, and actually show that a 'hard' project can actually be accomplished in this city.
Forget about creating a great place to visit, and create a great place to LIVE. That will bring the visitors anyway.
@ Charles P; I agree, the God fearing, Bible banging, Jesus loving Christians (AND I AM ONE OF THOSE), do not need to be shoving bibles, or God down anyone's throats unless someone asks them; I only talk to people about God who know that I love God and am curious to know more about HIM (God). What most Born again Christians fail to realize is that you can still go out and catch a movie, or even hit a bar, but don't do it to excess, and, if God is #1 in your life, conduct YOURSELF accordingly but don't expect everyone else to jump on YOUR Christian bandwagon. Be careful though "Charles P.," one day you may have to call out His (God's) name. @ Lakelander...Miami is so insane it's rediculous...just look at all of those crazy cranes. We (Jax) can only hope, pray, and wish that we reach that point or even in some way look like Miami one day. I think Miami has the second densest Skyline in the whole United States (maybe Northern Hemisphere?). My hats off to Miami; but weather, location, and tourism can do awesome wonders for you; even Tampa is beginning to flex its muscle because of promotion, tourism, weather, etc. Though Jax is colder, there are numerous things we could promote (and we've all talked about these things) to bring more people to Jax to not only inflate the population, but to put a shot in the arm for downtown; I am a firm believer in "BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME;" but you'd better have the right types of buildings and attractions in place to lure the people in which will justify more promotion and luring of companies, entities, etc. to downtown Jax.
Regarding the Laura Trio, my vision of those buildings is to leave them intact, and somehow add on a supertall (50 stories) skyscraper over, in, and around them, integrate the new into and within the old. Just a thought.
Good lord. I hope people are leaving better suggestions than the "amusement parks" and "bulldoze everything and start new" suggestions in this thread.
I suspect the ferris wheel idea would more closely follow the London Eye rather than a full on amusement park idea. Due to location and land issues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Eye (ftp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Eye)
Street car from the river north to 20th street is what I think should be done. The skyway is going to Riverside, so Springfield area should get streetcar first. It also is more likely to spur brand new development as there isn't any at all now to speak off and the parks are in that direction. First step the parks and then to 20th?
Quote from: Sunbeam on December 27, 2013, 12:14:51 PM
The property needs to remain public and again an amusement park will make Jacksonville a destination and NOT a pass through town
I'm not aware of any public amusement parks...don't they all have gates and charge admission?
as for being a destination, I agree completely...but that is best done at least in part by creating something uniquely Jacksonville...not by building another theme park in Florida
All that said, I could support a ferris wheel close in to downtown...similar to what now exists in Atlanta...but let's be real, we aren't London (not Atlanta either) and people will not pay $25 to go up and see our skyline.
Quote from: strider on December 27, 2013, 02:27:30 PM
Street car from the river north to 20th street is what I think should be done. The skyway is going to Riverside, so Springfield area should get streetcar first. It also is more likely to spur brand new development as there isn't any at all now to speak off and the parks are in that direction. First step the parks and then to 20th?
And this is something that we already have a plan in place for. Well, up to 8th and then over to UF Shands. If we just got out of our own way and let the Mobility Plan work as intended, we could see real organic growth. But instead we forget the plan, stop it at every turn, and then shoot for pie in the sky. Hell, we don't even have to debate where the funding would come from for something like this. It's all in place. Just let it work like it is supposed to.
We get that going, and it works like we all believe it will, then it makes it so much easier to sell an extension of the line if that is what looks to be the best option.
Quote from: stephendare on December 27, 2013, 02:16:14 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on December 27, 2013, 01:01:52 PM
If they are not going to do the right things with it, or even, if they are not going to do anything with it, just bulldoze it and leave it empty, or bulldoze it and build every building new, with all blocks filled in with buildings and skyscrapers with NO parking garages, parking lots, or empty parking lots! Use it or lose it!!!
great. how much towards the construction of these skyscrapers are you personally guaranteeing, heights unknown? 20%?
more?
Just depost a check for the amount of the construction for the thing you would like to see, and then I think its easier to take your suggestion with more seriousness.
Shipyards- $36,500,000 of (taxpayer) money gone.
Landmar- 16 acres of Public Space reduced to 8 acres
Shipyards III- Jacksonville Civic Council and who is the director?
JaxChamber and who is the Director?
JCCI and who is the director?
OED and who is the director?
DIA and who is the director?
CRA
Vision 2025
Anyone, where is the 24/7 Public Access to Shipyards III a trophy asset that can provide a unique retail opportunity to our St. Johns River an American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone?
Thanks for the link to Imagine Downtown, I sent in a few ideas myself today.
Quote from: Bridges on December 27, 2013, 01:43:25 PM
Good lord. I hope people are leaving better suggestions than the "amusement parks" and "bulldoze everything and start new" suggestions in this thread.
Does anyone have a clue as to what all the construction activity that is going on right now on the Shipyards property? it's next to Hogans Creek.
All Pre Vision 2025 release
All Pre CRA/DIA in the USA release
All Pre PFPF COJ asset release
All Positive
One Ferris wheel doesn't mean a full blown amusement park. I am sure the idea behind that would be something like the London Eye. I just don't see that as a bad idea for the shipyards area.
Obviously there is not just one thing that fixes DT but the first one on my list would be Complete the Laura street trio project. The second would be outside of DT connect the Skyway all the way into San Marco. Third priority open the Landing to Laura.
I don't like that 'breezeway' proposal for the Landing. It's too anti-retail and destructive of the existing infrastructure. I like the idea of readapting infrastructure into other things opposed to tearing it down. This is what I would do with the Landing. I'm obviously scrapping the notion of the gimmicky breezeway in which all of Jax would flock to in amazement to see the St John's River from Laura Street...
For now, I would keep to basic Horseshoe shape of the Landing, with the escalators, upstairs and all. Transform the dying second floor food court area into a club ala Mavericks, or maybe full service restaurant(s) space like American Grill etc. Move all of the existing ground floor retail into one side of the horseshoe; Transform the other side of horseshoe retail into large adaptable space (tearing down inner walls etc); An indoor go-cart track is just an example as to what they could do with it (I'm not saying that it has to be that). People would be more excited with that, versus basically tearing down most of the Landing.
-Continue to incentivize/subsidize residential non-luxury residential as much as possible
-Continue to recruit, attract, and incentivize more economic development and relocation to the area, with a focus on downtown
-Extend the skyway into Brooklyn and San Marco
-Implement the streetcar system connecting Riverside, Downtown, Sports District, and Springfield. Eventually add Murray Hill, Avondale, LaVilla, etc.
Get this Skybridge built:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-mar-skybridge-jacksonville
I will hopefully be doing my internship at baptist downtown soon, and I know they shuttle most of their employees in from other parking lots... This bridge would eliminate that.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 27, 2013, 08:13:07 PM
One Ferris wheel doesn't mean a full blown amusement park. I am sure the idea behind that would be something like the London Eye. I just don't see that as a bad idea for the shipyards area.
+1
I think downtown is defined by its waterfront and that Jacksonville has all the basics needed to have a successful waterfront downtown.
Climate. Waterfront. Commerce. People. Desire.
So while in the "talking in a forum" mode ... one thing that might, or might not help would be to take a look at the things that are causing failure.
Who knows, a great neon ferris wheel with laser light show might be what gets the people of Jacksonville to think of downtown as the place to be.
Trying to keep an open mind for what works for the community is always good.
In any case, I offer you this excerpt from PPS and apologize in advance if posting excerpts from other websites is forbidden. I don't think Ethan Kent will mind.
http://www.pps.org/reference/waterfrontsgonewrong/
Mistakes by the Lake, River, or Sea
By Ethan Kent
In cities around the world, waterfronts are showing new signs of life. Parcels once dominated by industry or highways are now opening up to redevelopment, offering enormous opportunities to create new public spaces and rejuvenate old ones. Too often, however, decision makers hungry for solutions latch on to uninspired design and development plans that constrict public use.
Many things can suck the life out of a waterfront redevelopment, even those that start out with the best intentions. Some waterfronts are effectively privatized with one-dimensional commercial activity like hotels or convention centers, others with housing that discourages non-residents from using the space. Even when land is set aside for parks, they can fall short of the mark because they've been designed only for passive use or highly structured recreation. Since most waterfronts often start out in decrepit shape, any type of development tends to be welcomed. Yet when one particular use is allowed to dominate, the long-term potential of the waterfront is degraded.
Based on our experience with waterfronts around the world, PPS has assembled the following list of common pitfalls to help communities avoid these mistakes so that they can achieve the best possible future for their waterfronts.
Where Waterfronts Go Wrong
Mistake #1: Single-Use Developments, Not Multi-Purpose Destinations
City planners in Vancouver tell us these high-rise residential towers along the waterfront have prevented public use from flourishing.
Predictably, waterfront planning that stresses big, stand-alone projects results in isolated, single-use (not to mention very expensive) development. And any time a single use dominates an area, other activities are squeezed out.
Mistake #2: Domination by Autos
Seattle's Alaskan Way Viaduct is a barrier between downtown and the waterfront.
The waterfront should be one of the main destinations in any city, not a place to pass through in a car. Yet many cities–including New York, Seattle, Barcelona and Paris–have greatly hindered access to their waterfronts by capitulating to the auto. Raised freeways, wide roads, and parking lots dominate waterfront views, cutting people off from what should be a wonderful public asset.
Mistake #3: Too Much Passive Space or Too Much Recreation
Much of Portland Oregon's waterfront is taken up by passive areas without a diverse variety of activity.
Passive areas where people can sit or stroll are successful when they connect to destinations where more activities are available, forming a diverse whole. But when the waterfront is limited to natural areas, which are often seen as a healthy contrast to the city, the place loses the vibrant qualities that draw many people to the water. By the same token, recreational activities that use up a large amount of space, like playing fields, are especially difficult to integrate into a waterfront if you want to have a lively setting throughout different times of day and different seasons. Natural areas and recreational areas work best when mixed with other sorts of destinations.
Mistake #4: Private Control, not Public Access
The push for luxury waterfront condos yields a limited return for the broader public.
The privatization of waterfronts comes in many forms, including luxury housing and high-end commercial developments. There are also less obvious ways that waterfronts have been commandeered that often get overlooked. Fences, a lack of crosswalks, poorly-marked entrances, walkways that terminate at private property–all these measures serve to make waterfronts feel less public and more private.
Mistake #5: Lack of Destinations
New York's Battery Park City maintains public access throughout, but lacks the fine-grained layering of activity necessary to create great destinations.
Even well-designed and maintained waterfronts that provide excellent public access may not necessarily fulfill their potential as gathering places. If there are no special places that draw people, then the intrinsic vibrancy of waterfront gets squandered. Creating popular destinations doesn't mean relying on big projects. Rather, it involves layering smaller attractions that work together: A small boat dock, a restaurant, and a playground, if combined the right way, can all build off each other and enliven a
waterfront much more than any single use ever could.
Mistake #6: A Process Driven by Development, Not by Community
Fast growing cities around the world, like Panama City, are quickly ceding their prime waterfront space to development.
Many waterfront planning efforts are led by "development corporations," but when development is the primary objective, public goals and public process get left behind. As with any public space, the knowledge and desires of the community should form the framework for shaping waterfronts. When a city hands over the future of its waterfront to developers, the essential public spirit of the waterfront is compromised. Development is a necessary component of this process, but not the only point. It should fit within the community's vision, not override it.
Mistake #7: Design Statements
Although the Quadracci Pavilion in Milwaukee, Wisconsin sits right by the waterfront, it does nothing to support activity in the surrounding public spaces.
Many waterfronts today have become the site of stand-alone, iconic buildings. These buildings stand as design statements that neither foster lively public use nor connect their ground floor activity to the surrounding public spaces. In fact, these projects dampen public activity and diminish any sense of place. Frank Gehry's Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain, Santiago Calatrava's Quadracci Pavilion at the Milwaukee Art Museum, and Dominique Perrault's Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris are all symptoms of this same disease.The success of a waterfront revitalization that relies on attention-grabbing design to draw people will be short-lived at best. Once the novelty wears off, there must be something substantial that keeps people coming back again and again.
Quote from: I-10east on December 27, 2013, 09:55:57 PM
I don't like that 'breezeway' proposal for the Landing. It's too anti-retail and destructive of the existing infrastructure. I like the idea of readapting infrastructure into other things opposed to tearing it down. This is what I would do with the Landing. I'm obviously scrapping the notion of the gimmicky breezeway in which all of Jax would flock to in amazement to see the St John's River from Laura Street...
For now, I would keep to basic Horseshoe shape of the Landing, with the escalators, upstairs and all. Transform the dying second floor food court area into a club ala Mavericks, or maybe full service restaurant(s) space like American Grill etc. Move all of the existing ground floor retail into one side of the horseshoe; Transform the other side of horseshoe retail into large adaptable space (tearing down inner walls etc); An indoor go-cart track is just an example as to what they could do with it (I'm not saying that it has to be that). People would be more excited with that, versus basically tearing down most of the Landing.
I'm kind of with you....but the major design flaw with the existing horeeshoe is that virtually nothing faces out to the street....that needs to change in order to make for a lively ped experience
I think there are a million answers to this question. The easiest way I can answer this question is look at what we've down downtown for the last 40 years and pretty much do the exact opposite.
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 28, 2013, 09:30:28 AM
Quote from: I-10east on December 27, 2013, 09:55:57 PM
I don't like that 'breezeway' proposal for the Landing. It's too anti-retail and destructive of the existing infrastructure. I like the idea of readapting infrastructure into other things opposed to tearing it down. This is what I would do with the Landing. I'm obviously scrapping the notion of the gimmicky breezeway in which all of Jax would flock to in amazement to see the St John's River from Laura Street...
For now, I would keep to basic Horseshoe shape of the Landing, with the escalators, upstairs and all. Transform the dying second floor food court area into a club ala Mavericks, or maybe full service restaurant(s) space like American Grill etc. Move all of the existing ground floor retail into one side of the horseshoe; Transform the other side of horseshoe retail into large adaptable space (tearing down inner walls etc); An indoor go-cart track is just an example as to what they could do with it (I'm not saying that it has to be that). People would be more excited with that, versus basically tearing down most of the Landing.
I'm kind of with you....but the major design flaw with the existing horeeshoe is that virtually nothing faces out to the street....that needs to change in order to make for a lively ped experience
This is the one section of the landing that actually has outward facing signage, windows and doors. This is literally the most lively side if the exterior and it's the part they want to demolish? I'm not a big fan of cutting a hole in the iconic horseshoe shape. I think part of the draw of the landing is that you actually have to enter it to see a river view. Which to me is a benefit to the tenants.
I'd much rather see the big swaths of walls to the left and right of Laura Street opened up with windows, doors signage so people know what's inside.
I'm all for cutting a breezeway. As it now stands, the Landing is a bunker that turns its back on downtown. The design does make it easy for the owner to control crowds but it has also led to where we are today. I would rather see the whole thing come down and start again, but I am not a fan of the people of Jacksonville footing Sleiman's bill. I know that the City owes him more parking but he hasn't done much with the place since he bought it.
The City requirement for Landing parking will basically be met with the new garage now under construction....but Sleiman disagrees since it isn't his garage...bottom line, he wants to control the revenue.
Well according to Sleiman the parking is need to draw in certain tenants. City has been promising parking for nearly two decades now and people complain about Sleiman?
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 28, 2013, 03:03:20 PM
The City requirement for Landing parking will basically be met with the new garage now under construction....but Sleiman disagrees since it isn't his garage...bottom line, he wants to control the revenue.
Ok I see, thanks
What should be done? Pretty simple, really.
Return all downtown streets to 2way. (except perhaps State And Union).
Eliminate ramps on Main Street Bridge.
Recognize Bay Street (east to west) from the Convention Center to EverBank Field,; and Main street (north and south) from Bay Street to 20th Street as the primary downtown corridors.
Establish rail based or surface based trolleys on the 2 main corridors.
Recognize Hemming Plaza as "Government Center" and develop the real downtown along Bay Street (which is already happening) and Main Street (where there is an abundance of cheap land available for development).
Don't give away excess city properties to ANYONE. Put them up for sale and take what you can get. At least, they would go back on the tax rolls in most cases.
Create daily "Events" downtown until the residential base is large enough to support an ongoing day and night life. Art Walk and other events prove there is a market; right now it's just a lack of city imagination.
We've talked for years about how most people want to have a vibrant downtown core. We've talked about specific attributes which full vibrancy might possess. We must do more than just dream of and describe the goal.
Our wish for full core vibrancy could be like a journey we all wish to take. We know the destination. Or ... the problem could be likened to something we want to build. Our imaginations possess the object we wish to build.
Since we have been for the most part stagnated in our efforts to achieve vibrancy and infill, we might attempt looking at the mechanisms most critically affecting our ability to make good progress to destination. The stagnation exists not because of mysterious forces about which we must remain ignorant, but perhaps it exists because we have not engaged the mechanisms most critical for solid movement toward vibrancy and infill.
Every problem is to be solved by understanding its many essences, the mechanisms within its nature. Every journey is to be completed by discovering the best roads to destination, by perceiving clearly the obstacles along the road, and how to neutralize them.
Because we continue in ignorance about the mechanisms necessary to reach our destination, we remain in stagnation.
How can we begin to disassemble and analyze the machine that can take us to destination? We must understand how it works. We must repair it for optimum progress. We must ensure it is well lubricated and has sufficient fuel for the journey. We must ensure that the drivers are dedicated, determined for the journey, that they will keep us on the road.
To only dream of the destination, is to continue in stagnation. We must perceive clearly the destination, understand the obstacles to it, the mechanisms involved, the road to it ..... and we must drive with great force and determination, the machine which can take us there.
Quote from: JeffreyS on December 27, 2013, 09:01:39 PM
Obviously there is not just one thing that fixes DT but the first one on my list would be Complete the Laura street trio project. The second would be outside of DT connect the Skyway all the way into San Marco. Third priority open the Landing to Laura.
I like it....
QuoteI know that the City owes him more parking but he hasn't done much with the place since he bought it.
Sleiman went round and round and round with former Mayor Peyton on a parking deck and Peyton told him to stick it, essentially, and the relationship deteriorated from there, and here we still sit.
More events downtown! More transportation options to get downtown. Incentives for local grass roots businesses to move downtown.
On my unambitious wish list for downtown is a good medium priced raw bar/seafood place, a 24/7 diner (cuppa joe and blue plate special variety) and a moderately priced relatively quiet full service bar that doesn't turn into a dance club on Fri/Sat.
Build down Hogan and Laura Streets with infill of restaurants, shops, and bars. Change it into a major entertainment district. Start at the Landing and use that as an anchor to start off and eventually work all the way back to Hemming Plaza, which can host events like concerts. It would already have Skyway access (unlike the Shipyards) and would really feature the core of downtown. Unfortunately, there isn't even enough demand for shops, bars, etc. to even fill up the Landing, much less five blocks of downtown.
How did Savannah do it? That city wasn't always a charming little town with a bunch of great pubs and B&B's. We need to capitalize on what we have - a great riverfront, and a southern city with a rich history.
As a tourists coming downtown your could be entertained for hours if we had: a docked navy ship/museum, southern rock hall of fame, larger/relocated maritime museum, maybe even an aquarium (though I don't think we can compete w/atlanta).
There's no silver bullet, but a few of those things on the list closely located to each other would make a huge difference.
There's no need to compete with Atlanta's aquarium. The one is Tampa and Baltimore are no where near that size. Its more of having things for residents and tourist to do.
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax. Too many other cities have done it by now. That opportunity has come and gone. They are very expensive to build and operate as well.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
you got some inside info. Lake? The only thing I know of is Marineland, which is owned by the Georgia Aquarium
Quote from: vicupstate on December 30, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax. Too many other cities have done it by now. That opportunity has come and gone. They are very expensive to build and operate as well.
The aquarium party started in the 1990s. We're showing up 15 years too late.
There's also the Seaquarium in Miami.
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 30, 2013, 09:34:31 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
you got some inside info. Lake? The only thing I know of is Marineland, which is owned by the Georgia Aquarium
Developing an aquarium in St. Augustine would combine Shawn Hiester's professional background and lifelong fascination with the sea: As a child, he'd watch Lloyd Bridges' "Sea Hunt" wearing fins and a mask.
Hiester, principal of SPH Consulting and a former Haskell Co. employee, has proposed building an 8,000-square-foot aquarium on Riberia Pointe, the southern end of Riberia Street on the edge of Downtown St. Augustine.full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/09/10/proposed-st-augustine-aquarium.html
Quote from: vicupstate on December 30, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax. Too many other cities have done it by now. That opportunity has come and gone. They are very expensive to build and operate as well.
Many other cities have done things like adding street cars, trams, expanded transit, marine time museums, etc. Guess we shouldn't do those either right?
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 30, 2013, 11:59:43 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on December 30, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax. Too many other cities have done it by now. That opportunity has come and gone. They are very expensive to build and operate as well.
Many other cities have done things like adding street cars, trams, expanded transit, marine time museums, etc. Guess we shouldn't do those either right?
There's a difference between human scaled public infrastructure and tourism gimmicks. The sure fire way to add sustainable life into downtown Jacksonville is to focus less on the "sexy" expensive one trick ponies and more on the things that create an urban environment that people want to reside in. Create a livable urban neighborhood and attracting tourist will take care of itself.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 31, 2013, 01:07:11 AM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 30, 2013, 11:59:43 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on December 30, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax. Too many other cities have done it by now. That opportunity has come and gone. They are very expensive to build and operate as well.
Many other cities have done things like adding street cars, trams, expanded transit, marine time museums, etc. Guess we shouldn't do those either right?
There's a difference between human scaled public infrastructure and tourism gimmicks. The sure fire way to add sustainable life into downtown Jacksonville is to focus less on the "sexy" expensive one trick ponies and more on the things that create an urban environment that people want to reside in. Create a livable urban neighborhood and attracting tourist will take care of itself.
How about both?
A machine can temporarily run our of fuel. The driver can make a wrong turn. It can be painted an ugly color, have low tire pressure, or broken handles and all is OK. But don't ever let it run out of lubricant. Because if you do, you will never get to your destination.
While most thread suggestions seem valid, and might eventually be a part of the ultimate solutions for the suffering core, I tire of imagining aspects of the eventual vibrant core, and am inclined more to look at the machine which will get us there. Concerning the ideas and suggestions -- some things can or should exist only if others exist first, the latter providing the lubricant so to speak for the former.
For example, the "parking problem", the "parking meter problem", and the "parking ticket problem", are directly tied to the idea of the existence of "mass transit". A properly designed mass transit system, utilizing streetcars .... or train/subway above/below system ..... whatever .. will solve the parking problem (along with the pollution problem), simply because fewer workers, residents, and visitors will drive automobiles to the core.
Eventually, as more people use the mass transit system, street parking will evolve to be much less in demand, thus allowing for the removal of the meters, thus removing the source of many complaints about going downtown.
It is interesting at how many of my customers, every single day -- when they discover that I have a book they wish to buy -- say something like .... "Oh... I hate going downtown. I can never find a parking place" .... or ...."I can't afford to pay a parking ticket every time I visit downtown."
The fact is that the lack of an effective mass transit system, and 1) the scarcity of "easy" parking, 2) the parking meter costs, and 3) the worry of having to pay a parking ticket, are "NEGATIVES" for the downtown core. Permanent negatives provide permanent repulsion to everyone. Permanent positives attract.
Forget the so-called "homeless" problem. The homeless are everywhere, and their negative impact will decrease both as current initiatives to assist them increases, and as more residents, workers, and visitors actually exist in the core.
A metaphorical Journey. If the effort to achieve vibrancy and infill is imagined as being a journey, and that a machine ... call it the "vibrancy machine", was being used to get to destination -- the machine has been stalled for the most part because some are interested in "painting" the machine, or in fixing the "door handle", while in reality it needs "lubrication".
In the journey to revitalize, "lubrication" removes friction, facilitates movement and progress to full vibrancy and infill. The nice thing about lubrication is that it works night and day, always easing progress, no matter the occasional stupid error the driver makes.
So it would seem advantageous for those in power ... those who make the decisions (who are they ... really? I don't know), to determine the right lubricants for injection into the machine of revitalization, and to stop worrying about nonsense bullshit such as painting the fu*##ng machine, or polishing the wheels.
Are our decision makers failing to properly maintain the revitalization machine in Jacksonville? Are they trying to operate the machine without lubricants? Are they fu#*ing nuts? Is this lack of maintenance ... of lubrication of the machine ... a major factor in the lack of progress down the road destination, to full vibrancy and infill?
If the machine/lubricant metaphor is somewhat valid, and if is it true that most machines require different types of lubricants, then we might attempt to identify some of the lubricants .... especially the types that last a long time, and that work to ease machine progress twenty-four hours per day, year after year.
LUBRICANT: Improving mass transit could be considered a lubricant for the machine of revitalization. This kind of lubricant, while expensive, is critical ... and therefore worth the investment.
LUBRICANT: Measured property tax incentives for individuals, businesses, and investors (those who make solid improvements on properties) who wish to engage the city core during the current low-foot-traffic era. If some are wondering why the machine has not traveled efficiently to the vibrancy destination .... look at this particular lubricant. I cannot believe the stupidity of the mechanics ... those who fail to understand the need for this kind of lubricant in the revitalization machine. Idiots all.
LUBRICANT: A continuing (genuine) effort .. a very focused effort, by some of the many agencies or groups ... to get .... to entice ..... to incentivize ... to force ..... new residents, businesses, companies, and retail into the city core. Get off your fu#king asses.
LUBRICANT: If appropriate, make necessary changes from one-way streets to two-way. Do whatever is necessary to remove "negatives" from the core environment, thus providing a 24-hour, years lasting, lubricant to the machine traveling toward vibrancy.
LUBRICANT: A continuing advisor (knowledgeable) program to assist anyone attempting to engage the city core during the current low-foot-traffic condition so that there will be less naive entries and investments into the core which ultimately fail. Some dream of a small business, but their total assets are sometimes lacking -- in critical knowledge or in a viable business plan.
LUBRICANT: Establish a firm hands off position regarding any church attempts to excessively influence any natural secular development in the downtown core. The church, while necessary for some, is not by many. A church is, by nature and of necessity, controlling. A city, by its nature, requires freedom to evolve to its best for all citizens, and therefore takes precedence over the church on decisions regarding any development affecting the entire citizenry.
LUBRICANT: There are several more.
Although superficial and temporary (Art Walk, Jazz Festivals, etc) items support core development, the difference between these somewhat fleeting items and the lubricant metaphor is that the lubricants are critical, function in the fundamental layers, positively affect and promote other, less critical items, provide efficiency and movement all year, 24-hours a day, and once set up, require little daily maintenance.
All the talk about what the downtown core should look like is necessary -- as one must perceive one's destination. But I tire of this exercise of painting pictures of the destination. The stagnation on the journey to vibrancy exists not because of a lack of ideas of a revitalized core, but because too few are focusing on, tuning, and lubricating the machine .... the only machine which will get us to vibrancy and infill. We can dream and envision. But we must move. We must act. We must remove obstacles. We must lubricate the machine.
QuoteIt is interesting at how many of my customers, every single day -- when they discover that I have a book they wish to buy -- say something like .... "Oh... I hate going downtown. I can never find a parking place" .... or ...."I can't afford to pay a parking ticket every time I visit downtown."
The fact is that the lack of an effective mass transit system, and 1) the scarcity of "easy" parking, 2) the parking meter costs, and 3) the worry of having to pay a parking ticket, are "NEGATIVES" for the downtown core. Permanent negatives provide permanent repulsion to everyone. Permanent positives attract.
Thanks for confirming what I already knew and have repeated many times on this forum. BTW, you could 'solve' the parking problem the same way it is 'solved' in San Marco and Riverside-Avondale. Remove the damn meters and simply enforce the respective posted limits.
All the city has to do is live without the revenue, which would easily be recooped when property values rise, as I can promise you, they would.
Quote from: Noone on December 31, 2013, 01:08:45 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 31, 2013, 01:07:11 AM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 30, 2013, 11:59:43 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on December 30, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.
That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax. Too many other cities have done it by now. That opportunity has come and gone. They are very expensive to build and operate as well.
Many other cities have done things like adding street cars, trams, expanded transit, marine time museums, etc. Guess we shouldn't do those either right?
There's a difference between human scaled public infrastructure and tourism gimmicks. The sure fire way to add sustainable life into downtown Jacksonville is to focus less on the "sexy" expensive one trick ponies and more on the things that create an urban environment that people want to reside in. Create a livable urban neighborhood and attracting tourist will take care of itself.
How about both?
Regardless of the specific proposals intended to lure tourist and suburbanites downtown, public dollars will still have to be used to light streets, provide mobility, maintain parks, improve schools, etc. While we have a bad track record with one-trick revitalization ponies in downtown, it's not an either/or issue. It's more about properly evaluating the ROI of public dollars involved in high risk propositions.
I predict that about 15 years from now, someone will build a ferris wheel downtown as the "silver bullet" that will bring the place back to life. 8)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-worlds-most-distinctive-ferris-wheels/2014/01/15/eaa9b774-7e3b-11e3-93c1-0e888170b723_gallery.html#photo=1
So much for that unique ferris wheel idea...Orlando's is under construction now on I-Drive....
(http://i50.tinypic.com/13zwjev.jpg)
Image courtesy of godog7 at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=96862819&postcount=185
(http://i39.tinypic.com/nctgg.jpg)
Image courtesy of ThatFloridaDude at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=109840348&postcount=190
I-Drive Live will include the $70 million, 450' tall wheel, an aquarium, a Madame Tussauds wax museum, restaurants and retail.
I knew it wouldn't be long before another Florida city put one up. Jax always in last place or never enter the race to begin with. The idea was never made out to be unique to begin with. It was just an idea, just like the street car you guys all rave about.
No!!!!!!!!! What hope do we now have to save our downtown??!!
None as everyone else continues to move forward. 20 years from now this site will still be starting threads "What to do with Downtown". A lot of you people are in denial.
Think of the exotic sites you must see from the seat of that thing.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on January 30, 2014, 04:00:08 PM
I knew it wouldn't be long before another Florida city put one up. Jax always in last place or never enter the race to begin with. The idea was never made out to be unique to begin with. It was just an idea, just like the street car you guys all rave about.
The Orlando project has been planned for nearly seven years now. It is a privately funded project being built by a Singapore-based company called The Great Wheel Corp. It's their first ferris wheel project in the US. Other projects they've built or announced are in Beijing, Singapore, Berlin and Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
Quote from: Josh on January 30, 2014, 04:04:57 PM
Think of the exotic sites you must see from the seat of that thing.
Hahaha
I Drive, alone, gets over 5.3 million overnight visitors annually. Tourist attractions draw over 50 million annually. My guess is this private entity believes they are developing their project in a market where there will be enough tourist willing to spend money to see what Universal, Disney, Sea World and every thing else in the vicinity looks like from the sky. I wouldn't pay for it, but I also wouldn't travel across the country or globe to visit a theme park either. Anyway, from my understanding, they aren't getting public incentives, so this is a market rate project.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2014, 03:56:17 PM
So much for that unique ferris wheel idea...Orlando's is under construction now on I-Drive....
and Atlanta has one now at Olympic Park
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on January 30, 2014, 04:00:08 PM
I knew it wouldn't be long before another Florida city put one up. Jax always in last place or never enter the race to begin with.
I'm fine with us not entering the 'large ferris wheel race'.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on January 30, 2014, 04:00:08 PM
I knew it wouldn't be long before another Florida city put one up. Jax always in last place or never enter the race to begin with. The idea was never made out to be unique to begin with. It was just an idea, just like the street car you guys all rave about.
Orlando has been talking about this for over 5 years....they think people will pay to go up and look out...just imagine, you'll be able to see the Epcot sphere, Cinderella's Castle, and the NASA Vehicle Assembly Building 50 miles away
Personally, the theme parks in Orlando really do not entice me, I just like to see what intrinsic attractions that a city has. Every city is different. In Orlando, I might choose to go to a good restaurant or take a tour of their downtown area (the city, not Disney). If I were in Vegas I would check out a few casinos or bars, etc., just to get the feel of the place. Or if in Savannah, walk around and look at the historic (haunted) houses in the historic district.
If Jax continues to build and improve its entertainment district on or near the river, like a revival of Bay Street to what it was around the turn of the century, I believe that would be an strong attraction for a hungry and tired tourist (or a hungry and tired local). Word of mouth will do the rest.
How about if we build an ugly parking garage across from the landing and waive the retail requirement. Also make sure it won't support future vertical construction.
Perhaps we could just stop doing those negative things to downtown.
First, do no harm. Then move on from there.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2014, 03:56:17 PM
So much for that unique ferris wheel idea...Orlando's is under construction now on I-Drive....
Like I said, Jacksonville will probably jump on the bandwagon long after it becomes a tired cliche.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 30, 2014, 04:59:03 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2014, 03:56:17 PM
So much for that unique ferris wheel idea...Orlando's is under construction now on I-Drive....
and Atlanta has one now at Olympic Park
I happened to drive by the one in Atlanta several days ago, and then drove by the construction on I-Drive yesterday. I didn't realize this was becoming a phenomenon!
Downtown Jacksonville needs to stop looking for magic bullets and magic carpets of hundred million dollars aquariums and ferris wheels and use a lot less money and invest in making the streets more physically attractive, loans to small businesses to invest downtown and encourage middle class condos.
^^+100%
Middle class condos? LOL
Quote from: finehoe on January 31, 2014, 11:12:27 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2014, 03:56:17 PM
So much for that unique ferris wheel idea...Orlando's is under construction now on I-Drive....
Like I said, Jacksonville will probably jump on the bandwagon long after it becomes a tired cliche.
Very true, and who said that Jax had to spend the money, let the developers do it, If these ideas are one trick ponies, they sure are working well in many cities all over the world, not just the US, but but its smoke screens and mirrors here though.
^I agree 100% on letting developers spend their own money. However, we haven't reached that point in DT yet. Most guys have their hands out waiting for the taxpayer to take on some of their financial risk.
Quote from: stephendare on December 27, 2013, 02:16:14 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on December 27, 2013, 01:01:52 PM
If they are not going to do the right things with it, or even, if they are not going to do anything with it, just bulldoze it and leave it empty, or bulldoze it and build every building new, with all blocks filled in with buildings and skyscrapers with NO parking garages, parking lots, or empty parking lots! Use it or lose it!!!
great. how much towards the construction of these skyscrapers are you personally guaranteeing, heights unknown? 20%?
more?
Just depost a check for the amount of the construction for the thing you would like to see, and then I think its easier to take your suggestion with more seriousness.
In all due respect Stephen, and I apologize for the very late response, I am guaranteeing 0$ in which I am sure you are now thinking, "then keep your mouth shut." However, let me remind you that there are people in elected positions, and in positions of power in our government that are PAID to get downtown moving. If they don't do their job, then they either need to be fired and get someone in there who will get the job done, or get downtown moving with guaranteed checks of their own (and not from taxpayers...that is getting old because the taxpayers money is not being used correctly or efficiently). Case closed (snap).
Having lived here for the past thirty years and having visited numerous other cities around the United States I make the following observations.
Tourism is essential to developing more restaurants, hotels, clubs and art galleys.......all you have to do is look at St. Augustine. St. Augustine has a myriad of attractions, none of them huge or overly dominate and they are somewhat concentrated in one general area.
I-95 brings thousands of tourist through Jacksonville every week. We have to give them reasons to stop downtown. Things that will attract tourist will also attract locals and day trippers. The city needs to show some commitment to some projects, once the some commitments are made private developers will follow. One project by it's self ( i.e. redeveloping the landing) will not stimulate enough immediate activity and will not be a significant enough tourist draw. Therefore, the city should commit to several large projects over an extended time period....say ten years, but not longer or people will not believe the projects will ever be started.
1) Old court house property should be cleared for development of a state-of-the-art convention center. This location will lead to more activity at the Landing, on East Bay Street and on the north bank Riverwalk.
2) A portion of the Prime Osbourne is already planned to be part of an Amtrak Station. Turn the remainder into a Transportation Museum. Jacksonville is a significant multimodal transportation hub. Rail and transportation via ocean and river have been very active here for over a hundred years. This museum should focus on the history and future of rail in Florida and Jacksonville (need to acquire some locomotives for display), history and future of cruise lines and ocean going shipping in Jacksonville, air transport and the interstate highway system. Get corporate sponsors, we have numerous transportation companies headquartered here or with significant operations here; CSX, Florida East Coast RR, Landstar, Carnival Cruises, Crowley, Sea Star Line, J.B. Hunt Transport Services, JaxPort and Jacksonville Airport Authority.
3)Fix the amphitheater at Metro Park so its as nice as the amphitheater in St. Augustine and figure out how to creatively minimize the noise problem effecting the St. Nicolas area. St. Augustine is bringing thousands of locals and tourists every month to it's amphitheater. Improving this facility and the frequency and quality performers will bring a lot more people to downtown hotels and restaurants.
4) Do something with the Jacksonville Fire Museum. Needs more large and unique fire trucks, maybe a firefighting boat, maybe a gift shop, maybe a firefighter training tower or an old forest fire lookout tower; Florida has 160 still standing and most are idle. Add exhibits on different types of fire fighting, fire fighting technology and significant fires in Jacksonville's history. Ask Firehouse Subs to be a sponsor of some sort. This is an existing attraction that needs to be much further developed and marketed......it's downtown, next to the river and Metro Park.
5) Move the School Board off the river and relocate those jobs to the downtown core. Sell the land for retail and residential condo tower development. Make sure the south bank Riverwalk extends down to it.
6) Develop a world class botanical gardens on the vacant JEA owned property next to the existing School Board building. It should include one or more unique glass conservatories visible from I-95, and make sure the south bank Riverwalk extends to it. Numerous cities smaller then Jacksonville have world class botanical gardens. Co-op with the University of Florida to develop and operate. Conduct research on rare and medicinal plants. Highlight carnivorous plants, bonsai, Florida native flora, a hedge maze, Koi ponds, Japanese zen gardens etc etc. Some how include the Treaty Oak Park as a component of the botanical gardens, even-though they won't be physically connected. The Treaty Oak is a very impressive specimen that should be better showcased and protected.
7) Develop a world class aquarium on a portion of the Shipyards property near the Jacksonville Fire Museum.
8) There's space for a giant Ferris wheel at Metro Park, but it won't be successful without having numerous attractions around it.
9) Persuade the Alhambra Dinner Theater to relocate to someplace on the southbank.
10) Get state and Federal funds to expand the Skyway so it goes farther.
11) Commit to extend the northbank Riverwalk to Memorial Park, which would help integrate the Five Points area and the Cummer Museum complex into the mix of attractions, retail and restaurants sites accessible from the north bank of the Riverwalk.
12) Get the State of Florida to allow a floating casino, styled as an old Paddle Wheeler and accessible from the Riverwalk, to sit on the river in front of the tiered building and parking lot located between the Main St Bridge and the Hyatt Hotel.
13 Get the Berkman Plaza tower #2 finished or torn-down.
14) Discus the possibility of locating the US Navy aircraft carrier John F. Kennedy(JFK) on the riverfront between Metro Park and the Hart Bridge. The JFK is the last super carrier that will be available for conversion into a museum/ public use facility because it was not built as a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. Checkout these sites if you want to see the potential that exists for developing an attraction that will definitely pull a lot of tourist of I-95;
www.intrepidmuseum.org or www.midway.org or www.patriotspoint.org The JFK is still available, the one group in Rhode Island (www.ussjfkri.org) is far from raising the money necessary to convince the Navy it can maintain the ship. Jacksonville should request some funds from the State of Florida and use crowd funding to raise the $25 to $30 million that will be needed to bring the ship here and develop a respectable museum facility. $25 to $30 million is not really a big number when you consider that the City of Jacksonville just provided $63 million to further improve Everbank Stadium, and it's highly questionable whether that will really bring many additional visitors to Jacksonville. Jacksonville has a long history as a Navy town, the JFK's last home-port was Mayport NAS and Jacksonville is still vying for a nuclear powered carrier to be stationed at Mayport NAS in the near future.
14) Yes, the Landing needs to be redeveloped.
15) Put lighted fountains in the five retention ponds that will boarder I-95 when the road construction is completed just south of the Fuller Warren Bridge, see www.i95overlandbridge.com/images/2012-12-phase-6-large.jpg
^Great list. I'm sure most could be done within 5 to 10 years (some even shorter) if the leadership and money were in the right places.
Hey jaxbanker, you should work for the city, you have some great ideas. I like the Transportation Museum thought; there's a neat one in Savannah and it's in an old train station like ours.
Even if Mayor Brown gets a public-private partnership for a convention center, aquarium, etc., where does the city get the money for it's share considering the police/fire pension obligations we have and the huge number of parks we aren't maintaining.
Jax is one of the lowest-taxed municipalities in the country. I think this city is just going to have to face the fact that as spread out as it is there is no other choice in order to maintain any decent quality of life for all its citizens than to raise taxes. Pay to play.
Most people here are just fine with the quality of life and see no reason to raise taxes.
Quote from: Sunbeam on December 27, 2013, 09:18:39 AM
The first thing I hope everyone realizes is the Mayors Office in May 2013 put out a "Request For Information" (RFI) for Downtown, North and South bank development.
The RFI was done under the radar of the citizenry, without City Council knowledge AND even most of DIA knew nothing about it.
RFI though on line in the Procurement Dept. few people even know they exist let alone know where to look to find one BUT if your one of the good ole boy club you receive a personal invitation from Procurement to respond.
Not surprisingly there was only one response.
Something downtown doesnt need and is a royal stupid idea is a space needle. Not even to start with! Just hoping for growth to someday surround it. It is stupid because once anyone visits they have no reason to return. There is no draw to make them return again and again, etc.
PLUS the city nor PFPF has any right to risk tax payers money on such an "iffy" at best investment
I have approached CC and DIA multiple times with pictures of development sprouted around Ferris Wheels. The success of such a thing is proven time and time again around the country and even in England during the Jags game over there.
A 75 foot Ferris Wheel lit up to the hilt on the shipyard property can and will be seen from every bridge that crosses the river including the Dames Point. A Ferris Wheel will indeed STOP the usual pass through traffic on 95 to a stop for a ride, or two or three. Then again when they pass through on a return trip.
A Ferris Wheel will draw locals and those from surrounding counties to ride unlimited times. Especially visitors downtown for conventions, football games, baseball games, concerts at both the arena and met park. People will walk from the landing to ride this Ferris Wheel. Parking can even be free on the property AND on the sounthbank JEA property with a low cost ferry ride across the river.
Opportunity is unlimited.
Back to the RFI---The city needs to submit another RFI but this time needs to include the DIA and CC needs to have knowledge of it as well. The RFI needs to be sent to every amusement park across the country and across the pond in England and see not if, but how many investors will respond where Im sure they will.
The city need not GIVE or RISK any more tax payer money then what already comes with development of shipyard property that includes but is not limited to Enterprise Zone, QTI, DT Dev. etc
Heres is another extremely great benefit The Ferris Wheel and amusement park will be able to employ those within the city without college degrees that the OED is constantly catering to. Those from the military that can run a nuclear ship but no college can be employed. Those from the Northside with the citys highest unemployment rate can indeed be employable. Anyone with a desire to work can work in the NEW Jacksonville Jungle Amusement Park.
There is soooo much more I have designed for the development of the amusement park but that is enough for now.
2007-451 needs to be amended to include all the city controlled docks. RAM dock is only opened when RAM is open. Not good.
The 3/7/14 Downtown Experience Subcommittee meeting of the DIA reinforced a huge Entertainment option that will be happening Downtown on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River in our new highly restricted (Food Truck, Kayak) DIA zone July 4-5th.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 31, 2014, 08:04:43 PM
^I agree 100% on letting developers spend their own money. However, we haven't reached that point in DT yet. Most guys have their hands out waiting for the taxpayer to take on some of their financial risk.
+1
IrvAdams, I applied for the recently posted jobs at the DIA, but never heard anything back. Other cities smaller than ours have accomplished great things in their downtown's, Jacksonville's leaders should investigate what methods other cities have used to accomplish revitalization and tourism.
^^Agree. And if city leaders want examples with clear and abundant documentation, along with pictures, they need look no further than MJ. I think this website has done a great job profiling cities larger and smaller that have progressed to the next level, and beyond. Just a few I can remember reading about off the top of my head: Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, Nashville...
Quote from: jaxbanker on March 15, 2014, 06:49:59 PM
Jacksonville's leaders should investigate what methods other cities have used to accomplish revitalization and tourism.
Are you kidding? All they do is endless "studies" and "plans". It's past time for some action.