What Should Be Done With Downtown Jacksonville?

[Keith-N-Jax]

There's no need to compete with Atlanta's aquarium. The one is Tampa and Baltimore are no where near that size. Its more of having things for residents and tourist to do.

[thelakelander]

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

[vicupstate]

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax.  Too many other cities have done it by now.  That opportunity has come and gone.  They are very expensive to build and operate as well.

[tufsu1]

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

you got some inside info. Lake?  The only thing I know of is Marineland, which is owned by the Georgia Aquarium

[thelakelander]

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax.  Too many other cities have done it by now.  That opportunity has come and gone.  They are very expensive to build and operate as well.

The aquarium party started in the 1990s. We're showing up 15 years too late.

[thelakelander]

There's also the Seaquarium in Miami.

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

you got some inside info. Lake?  The only thing I know of is Marineland, which is owned by the Georgia Aquarium

Developing an aquarium in St. Augustine would combine Shawn Hiester's professional background and lifelong fascination with the sea: As a child, he'd watch Lloyd Bridges' "Sea Hunt" wearing fins and a mask.

Hiester, principal of SPH Consulting and a former Haskell Co. employee, has proposed building an 8,000-square-foot aquarium on Riberia Pointe, the southern end of Riberia Street on the edge of Downtown St. Augustine.

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/09/10/proposed-st-augustine-aquarium.html

[Keith-N-Jax]

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax.  Too many other cities have done it by now.  That opportunity has come and gone.  They are very expensive to build and operate as well.

Many other cities have done things like adding street cars, trams, expanded transit, marine time museums, etc. Guess we shouldn't do those either right?

[thelakelander]

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax.  Too many other cities have done it by now.  That opportunity has come and gone.  They are very expensive to build and operate as well.

Many other cities have done things like adding street cars, trams, expanded transit, marine time museums, etc. Guess we shouldn't do those either right?

There's a difference between human scaled public infrastructure and tourism gimmicks.  The sure fire way to add sustainable life into downtown Jacksonville is to focus less on the "sexy" expensive one trick ponies and more on the things that create an urban environment that people want to reside in. Create a livable urban neighborhood and attracting tourist will take care of itself.

[Noone]

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax.  Too many other cities have done it by now.  That opportunity has come and gone.  They are very expensive to build and operate as well.

Many other cities have done things like adding street cars, trams, expanded transit, marine time museums, etc. Guess we shouldn't do those either right?

There's a difference between human scaled public infrastructure and tourism gimmicks.  The sure fire way to add sustainable life into downtown Jacksonville is to focus less on the "sexy" expensive one trick ponies and more on the things that create an urban environment that people want to reside in. Create a livable urban neighborhood and attracting tourist will take care of itself.

How about both?

[ronchamblin]

A machine can temporarily run our of fuel.  The driver can make a wrong turn.  It can be painted an ugly color, have low tire pressure, or broken handles and all is OK.  But don't ever let it run out of lubricant.  Because if you do, you will never get to your destination.

While most thread suggestions seem valid, and might eventually be a part of the ultimate solutions for the suffering core, I tire of imagining aspects of the eventual vibrant core, and am inclined more to look at the machine which will get us there.  Concerning the ideas and suggestions -- some things can or should exist only if others exist first, the latter providing the lubricant so to speak for the former. 

For example, the "parking problem", the "parking meter problem", and the "parking ticket problem", are directly tied to the idea of the existence of "mass transit".  A properly designed mass transit system, utilizing streetcars .... or train/subway above/below system ..... whatever .. will solve the parking problem (along with the pollution problem), simply because fewer workers, residents, and visitors will drive automobiles to the core.

Eventually, as more people use the mass transit system, street parking will evolve to be much less in demand, thus allowing for the removal of  the meters, thus removing the source of many complaints about going downtown.

It is interesting at how many of my customers, every single day -- when they discover that I have a book they wish to buy -- say something like .... "Oh... I hate going downtown.  I can never find a parking place" .... or ...."I can't afford to pay a parking ticket every time I visit downtown."

The fact is that the lack of an effective mass transit system, and 1) the scarcity of "easy" parking, 2) the parking meter costs, and 3) the worry of having to pay a parking ticket, are "NEGATIVES" for the downtown core.  Permanent negatives provide permanent repulsion to everyone.  Permanent positives attract.   

Forget the so-called "homeless" problem.  The homeless are everywhere, and their negative impact will decrease both as current initiatives to assist them increases, and as more residents, workers, and visitors actually exist in the core. 

A metaphorical Journey.  If the effort to achieve vibrancy and infill is imagined as being a journey, and that a machine ... call it the "vibrancy machine", was being used to get to destination -- the machine has been stalled for the most part because some are interested in "painting" the machine, or in fixing the "door handle", while in reality it needs "lubrication".

In the journey to revitalize, "lubrication" removes friction, facilitates movement and progress to full vibrancy and infill.  The nice thing about lubrication is that it works night and day, always easing progress, no matter the occasional stupid error the driver makes.

So it would seem advantageous for those in power ... those who make the decisions (who are they ... really? I don't know), to determine the right lubricants for injection into the machine of revitalization, and to stop worrying about nonsense bullshit such as painting the fu*##ng machine, or polishing the wheels.

Are our decision makers failing to properly maintain the revitalization machine in Jacksonville?  Are they trying to operate the machine without lubricants?  Are they fu#*ing nuts?  Is this lack of maintenance ... of lubrication of the machine ... a major factor in the lack of progress down the road destination, to full vibrancy and infill? 

If the machine/lubricant metaphor is somewhat valid, and if is it true that most machines require different types of lubricants, then we might attempt to identify some of the lubricants .... especially the types that last a long time, and that work to ease machine progress twenty-four hours per day, year after year.

LUBRICANT: Improving mass transit could be considered a lubricant for the machine of revitalization.  This kind of lubricant, while expensive, is critical ... and therefore worth the investment.

LUBRICANT: Measured property tax incentives for individuals, businesses, and investors (those who make solid improvements on properties) who wish to engage the city core during the current low-foot-traffic era.  If some are wondering why the machine has not traveled efficiently to the vibrancy destination .... look at this particular lubricant.  I cannot believe the stupidity of the mechanics ... those who fail to understand the need for this kind of lubricant in the revitalization machine.  Idiots all.

LUBRICANT: A continuing (genuine) effort .. a very focused effort, by some of the many agencies or groups ... to get .... to entice ..... to incentivize ... to force .....  new residents, businesses, companies, and retail into the city core.  Get off your fu#king asses. 

LUBRICANT: If appropriate, make necessary changes from one-way streets to two-way.  Do whatever is necessary to remove "negatives" from the core environment, thus providing a 24-hour, years lasting, lubricant to the machine traveling toward vibrancy.

LUBRICANT: A continuing advisor (knowledgeable) program to assist anyone attempting to engage the city core during the current low-foot-traffic condition so that there will be less naive entries and investments into the core which ultimately fail.  Some dream of a small business, but their total assets are sometimes lacking -- in critical knowledge or in a viable business plan.

LUBRICANT:  Establish a firm hands off position regarding any church attempts to excessively influence any natural secular development in the downtown core.  The church, while necessary for some, is not by many.  A church is, by nature and of necessity, controlling.  A city, by its nature, requires freedom to evolve to its best for all citizens, and therefore takes precedence over the church on decisions regarding any development affecting the entire citizenry.

LUBRICANT:  There are several more.     

Although superficial and temporary (Art Walk, Jazz Festivals, etc) items support core development, the difference between these somewhat fleeting items and the lubricant metaphor is that the lubricants are critical, function in the fundamental layers, positively affect and promote other, less critical items, provide efficiency and movement all year, 24-hours a day, and once set up, require little daily maintenance.   

All the talk about what the downtown core should look like is necessary -- as one must perceive one's destination.  But I tire of this exercise of painting pictures of the destination.  The stagnation on the journey to vibrancy exists not because of a lack of ideas of a revitalized core, but because too few are focusing on, tuning, and lubricating the machine .... the only machine which will get us to vibrancy and infill.  We can dream and envision.  But we must move.  We must act.  We must remove obstacles.  We must lubricate the machine. 

   




 



 

   

[vicupstate]

It is interesting at how many of my customers, every single day -- when they discover that I have a book they wish to buy -- say something like .... "Oh... I hate going downtown.  I can never find a parking place" .... or ...."I can't afford to pay a parking ticket every time I visit downtown."

The fact is that the lack of an effective mass transit system, and 1) the scarcity of "easy" parking, 2) the parking meter costs, and 3) the worry of having to pay a parking ticket, are "NEGATIVES" for the downtown core.  Permanent negatives provide permanent repulsion to everyone.  Permanent positives attract.   

Thanks for confirming what I already knew and have repeated many times on this forum.  BTW, you could 'solve' the parking problem the same way it is 'solved' in San Marco and Riverside-Avondale.  Remove the damn meters and simply enforce the respective posted limits. 

All the city has to do is live without the revenue, which would easily be recooped when property values rise, as I can promise you, they would.   

[thelakelander]

Charleston also has a decent aquarium and St. Augustine is getting one.

That is why I don't see this as a viable option for Jax.  Too many other cities have done it by now.  That opportunity has come and gone.  They are very expensive to build and operate as well.

Many other cities have done things like adding street cars, trams, expanded transit, marine time museums, etc. Guess we shouldn't do those either right?

There's a difference between human scaled public infrastructure and tourism gimmicks.  The sure fire way to add sustainable life into downtown Jacksonville is to focus less on the "sexy" expensive one trick ponies and more on the things that create an urban environment that people want to reside in. Create a livable urban neighborhood and attracting tourist will take care of itself.

How about both?

Regardless of the specific proposals intended to lure tourist and suburbanites downtown, public dollars will still have to be used to light streets, provide mobility, maintain parks, improve schools, etc. While we have a bad track record with one-trick revitalization ponies in downtown, it's not an either/or issue. It's more about properly evaluating the ROI of public dollars involved in high risk propositions.

[finehoe]

I predict that about 15 years from now, someone will build a ferris wheel downtown as the "silver bullet" that will bring the place back to life.   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-worlds-most-distinctive-ferris-wheels/2014/01/15/eaa9b774-7e3b-11e3-93c1-0e888170b723_gallery.html#photo=1

[thelakelander]

So much for that unique ferris wheel idea...Orlando's is under construction now on I-Drive....


Image courtesy of godog7 at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=96862819&postcount=185


Image courtesy of ThatFloridaDude at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=109840348&postcount=190

I-Drive Live will include the $70 million, 450' tall wheel, an aquarium, a Madame Tussauds wax museum, restaurants and retail. 

[Keith-N-Jax]

I knew it wouldn't be long before another Florida city put one up. Jax always in last place or never enter the race to begin with. The idea was never made out to be unique to begin with. It was just an idea, just like the street car you guys all rave about.