The End of State Road 9A
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4358-p1090298.JPG)
As construction of the State Road 9A (SR 9A) comes to an end, a new name for the highway is currently being installed throughout town.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/758
I'm gald to see the I295 loop nearing completion but we can do without the 9B extension, IMO.
Okay, good, now could the wizards at City Hall or JTA figure out how to rename JTB, I mean, J turner Butler, or uh, JT Butler, no I'm sorry, Butler Blvd Freeway, oops that's not right, Butler, something that makes CONSTANT sense? This is not to say Mr. JTB might not deserve a name, but do we need all three? and in every possible combination?
Also, what about these signs one passes after coming into town on the super-slab... "Jacksonville 17 miles?,"
"Jacksonville 12 Miles," Huh? Has Florida ever measured the distance from Jacksonville to anywhere? Are they aware the City Limits changed in the 1960's? Can ANYONE at FDOT spell "Downtown Jacksonville?" Replacing these signs with "Downtown Jacksonville" or "Jacksonville CBD" signs would make a lot of sense.
Ocklawaha
QuoteAlso, what about these signs one passes after coming into town on the super-slab... "Jacksonville 17 miles?,"
"Jacksonville 12 Miles," Huh? Has Florida ever measured the distance from Jacksonville to anywhere? Are they aware the City Limits changed in the 1960's? Can ANYONE at FDOT spell "Downtown Jacksonville?" Replacing these signs with "Downtown Jacksonville" or "Jacksonville CBD" signs would make a lot of sense.
I'm with ya on that one! I've always wondered why the signs don't read that way.
QuoteOkay, good, now could the wizards at City Hall or JTA figure out how to rename JTB, I mean, J turner Butler, or uh, JT Butler, no I'm sorry, Butler Blvd Freeway, oops that's not right, Butler, something that makes CONSTANT sense? This is not to say Mr. JTB might not deserve a name, but do we need all three? and in every possible combination?
Is JTB built to federal standards? Could it too be renamed to say I395 or something not used??
They are slowly doing that - the new signs from I-10 East say Downtown Jacksonville.
As far as the mileage signs, I have no idea why they still measure from the old city limits.
I want to believe that I've heard that the signs measure to the city center but I don't know if its true or not.
I think that's correct - the same can be said for distances to Orange Park, Green Cove Springs, Palatka, etc. Even if you use Mapquest & simply select the city/town without specifics, you always dump @ city center/downtown.......
JTB, J. Turner Butler Blvd., Butler Blvd, etc. = S.R. 202. Simplifies things a little bit.
Heh, I forgot that it even had a state road number!
If it meets federal highway standards it could be taken over as an interstate spur and renamed, just like 9A. Anyone know if it meets these standards?
Quote from: Jason on April 07, 2008, 10:15:55 AM
I want to believe that I've heard that the signs measure to the city center but I don't know if its true or not.
From what I understand, that is how all distances to cities are measured and designated on highway signs. It basically is the distance to the downtown of the city, not the distance from where you actually enter city limits.
Since we're on the topic of discussing naming conventions of our city's roads, I've always wondered why we go by some of the bridges official names and others we use the area of town they feed into.
Here's a long standing debate I have with my friends I'll use as an example: Why can't we call the Matthews bridge the Arlington bridge? I've always called it that, not even thinking twice about it, only to get scolded by friends who say "noooooooooo Dave it’s called the Matthews bridge, you don’t call the Buckman bridge the Orange Park bridge do ya?"
Ok, true, but we don’t call the Main Street Bridge the John T. Alsop Jr. Bridge either. "Yeah, what you wanna do is take 95 downtown, then go over the John T Aslop Jr Bridge, and then hang a left on Bay." Or when giving directions to the airport from the beach most wouldn't say "take 9A to the Napoleon Bonaparte Broward Bridge, hit 95 and get off at Duval road!
Proposed changes:
Matthews- Arlington bridge
Acosta= The Neon Bridge
Buckman= Worlds Longest Left Turn Lane With an Occasional Couch Laying in the Middle Lanes, bridge.
Ok, maybe we can leave the Acosta & Buckman as they are, but i'm passionate about change. And change starts today! I hearby change the name of the Matthews bridge to the Arlington bridge.
*breaks champagne on newly installed concrete filled grating*
QuoteBuckman= worlds longest left turn lane with an occasional couch laying in the middle lane, bridge.
Don't forget the Ostrich incident... I was stuck on the buckman for 2 1/2 hours watching crews scamper from side to side trying to catch an ostrich that somehow escaped from a circus truck. It was hilarious and maddening all at the same time! That is the worst bridge I've ever seen when it comes to people losing ladders and plywood. Tie straps people!
Quote from: Jason on April 07, 2008, 02:24:42 PM
QuoteBuckman= worlds longest left turn lane with an occasional couch laying in the middle lane, bridge.
Don't forget the Ostrich incident... I was stuck on the buckman for 2 1/2 hours watching crews scamper from side to side trying to catch an ostrich that somehow escaped from a circus truck. It was hilarious and maddening all at the same time! That is the worst bridge I've ever seen when it comes to people losing ladders and plywood. Tie straps people!
So true with the ties traps! I haven't heard about the Ostrich incident, I did hear about sheep running amuck on 295 near the Buckman several years ago, but yeah, I would've paid money to have seen the Ostrich act.
And oh! Wasn't it a ladder that caused a semi truck to veer off and knock a pickup truck off the Buckman into the St Johns several years back? I've been guilty of redneck-rigging furniture to a friends truck to move furniture every now and again, but I did make sure I had multiple bungee cords and straps at least!
A couple of points:
1) City mileage markers are measured from municipalities' city hall. That is why it always says 12 miles to Jacksonville, even when in the city limits. When I lived in Tallahassee, it was the same thing as well as Fort Worth, TX. Not sure why they do it that way, but they do.
2) JTB is not up to federal highway standards. The interchange with I-95 would have to be completely redone for that to occur, as well as making some modifications to the Belfort Rd. interchange.
I agree on the naming issues of JTB. For one, I don't think it should be called a Boulevard, because it is a limited access freeway. Now Florida seems to like to call these Expressways, but I think the term freeway is better suited. Save expressway for toll roads. So I think they should go with J.T. Butler Freeway on all the signage. It is easier than J. Turner Butler, but still gives enough recognition to the man it was named for that simply Butler would not.
Also, change the name of the Hart Bridge Expressway. That is very boring and unimaginative. How about something like Jaguar Freeway, since it does dump traffic right at the stadium.
I'm also for giving I-95 and I-295 names to help people identify what part of the freeway they are on, like they do out west. For example in Fort Worth, I-30 west of I-35W was the West Freeway and east of I-35W it was the East Freeway. In Phoenix, you have I-17 as the Black Canyon Freeway and I-10 west of downtown is the Papago Freeway and east of downtown is the Maricopa Freeway. So I would propose adding some kind of name to the road such as maybe the St. Augustine Freeway for I-95 south of I-10. I-295 east of I-95 could be the First Coast Freeway.
I am happy to see the end nearing or should I say the beginning of less headaches in morning travel. As for the 9B extension I can't disagree with Jason more. I am ready to choke or bribe anyone to finish the plans for 9B earlier than stated. I live off of Racetrack Rd and can't wait to make shorter trips with less traffic.
However I would be even happier if they put an onramp and offramp for Racetrack off of I-95 directly. I realize that we are St Johns county but we used to be Jacksonville until last year. There are so many homes being developed in the area, far more than areas of Jacksonville that have direct access to I-95 now. We will become a complete disaster like the town of Orange Park created if we don't do something soon to alleviate traffic into and out of Julinton Creek. CR-210 is not an option as it is a morning parking grid also.[/b] :'/
CR 210 is a disaster during rush hour. At some point, if no alternative (ex. a direct interchange with I-95 at Race Track Road) is provided, a flyover or two will be needed.
Quote from: CRAIG B on April 07, 2008, 04:15:34 PM
I am happy to see the end nearing or should I say the beginning of less headaches in morning travel. As for the 9B extension I can't disagree with Jason more. I am ready to choke or bribe anyone to finish the plans for 9B earlier than stated. I live off of Racetrack Rd and can't wait to make shorter trips with less traffic.
However I would be even happier if they put an onramp and offramp for Racetrack off of I-95 directly. I realize that we are St Johns county but we used to be Jacksonville until last year. There are so many homes being developed in the area, far more than areas of Jacksonville that have direct access to I-95 now. We will become a complete disaster like the town of Orange Park created if we don't do something soon to alleviate traffic into and out of Julinton Creek. CR-210 is not an option as it is a morning parking grid also.[/b] :'/
While I think it will be built, don't think that this will actually help traffic for more than about 5-6 years. We seem to not understand the concept that when you build a freeway through undeveloped land (which much of 9B is undeveloped still), it drives development (just like a rail line does).
For example, remember 8 years ago when no one was on 9A south of baymeadows? How times have changed.
They finally started construction on a new exit at Collins Rd and I-295. From what I read off of jta web site there will be a service road connecting Blanding and Collins. That should ease Blanding some, at least from the Argyle and Oakleaf traffic.
Quote from: CRAIG B on April 07, 2008, 04:15:34 PM
We will become a complete disaster like the town of Orange Park created if we don't do something soon to alleviate traffic into and out of Julinton Creek.[/b] :'/
Quote from: CRAIG B on April 07, 2008, 04:15:34 PM
I am happy to see the end nearing or should I say the beginning of less headaches in morning travel. As for the 9B extension I can't disagree with Jason more. I am ready to choke or bribe anyone to finish the plans for 9B earlier than stated. I live off of Racetrack Rd and can't wait to make shorter trips with less traffic.
However I would be even happier if they put an onramp and offramp for Racetrack off of I-95 directly. I realize that we are St Johns county but we used to be Jacksonville until last year. There are so many homes being developed in the area, far more than areas of Jacksonville that have direct access to I-95 now. We will become a complete disaster like the town of Orange Park created if we don't do something soon to alleviate traffic into and out of Julinton Creek. CR-210 is not an option as it is a morning parking grid also.[/b] :'/
IMO, the problem can be solved by building an interchange with I95 versus building a new highway. The eastern portion of the 9B route does nothing but open up more land for development in an already sprawling area. Also is doesn't connect any destinations. An interchange at I95 opens the flood gates for Racetrack Road and becomes a connection node to the rest of the region.
BTW, welcome to MetroJacksonville!
Now your talking Jason:
Jacksonville does have a problem naming freeways though.. I think we're on the right track with calling 295 "The Beltway" though.
And I agree with all of you that say JTB shouldnt be a boulevard. Its not a freakin' boulevard.. its a limited access FREEWAY!
Jacksonville needs to start naming things after famous Jacksonvillians or something..
Detroit, for example, has:
Edsel Ford Freeway (I94)
Walter P. Chrysler Freeway (I75)
Walter Reuther Freeway (I696)
Jeffries Freeway (I96)
John C Lodge (or Lodge Freeway) (M-10)
We could name I95 in the county the Haydon Burns Freeway (cause he was so instrumental in blowing things up for it)
Hart Bridge Expressway could be the Duval Greenway or something
Just please rename it the J. Turner Butler Freeway and standardize all the signage!
and yes, I also agree with taking down the mileage measurements.. It must be so confusing to out-of-state travelers that come through and pass "ENTERING DUVAL COUNTY -- JACKSONVILLE CITY LIMIT" and then 3 miles later see "JACKSONVILLE 12" .... Youre already there! Change the damn signs to say "DOWNTOWN".
They seriously need to rename sections to actually make them easier to identify. Very few cities here in the SE have actual designated sections, such as Atlanta, Nashville, Tampa, and Charlotte. Now Miami has, to a degree, as well as Orlando, only due to toll ways. Houston has pretty much got it down, and so has Dallas, and Birmingham as well. hell, just name some after sections of town there in. JTB could be named something like Butler-Ocean Freeway, or something, you have to give the guy credit afterall. Now the HBE, it should be something like River City Greenway, that sounds very appealing., or may be Jaguars Freeway, something that really sounds Jacksonville. The section of I-95 from the I-10 junction, down to 295 could be Palmetto Freeway, north of I-10 it can be First Coast Freeway, I-10 can be Gateway Freeway or Duval Freeway. Don't worry about the Mathews Bridge, its years are number anyways. Heck, name JTB Butler-First Coast Freeway or the Butler-Beachline Freeway. Something needs to be done, its soemwhat confusing to people, especially to first timers.
We could strip most roads of their current names and revert to a form of a numbered grid system if we are concerned with alleviating confusion for motorists. A subsystem would have to be devised for roads that meander and do not seemingly travel in a predominantly east-west or north-south fashion. This would eliminate names that reflect the area and, in my opinion, be another step towards a bland Jacksonville lacking identity. I'm more in favor of adopting more prominent, yet not obtrusive, signage.
I honestly think that the majority of Jacksonville is fairly easy to navigate and the naming convention makes sence (with the exception of a few roads). Because of the river, ocean, and intracoastal landmarks and the fact that our city is a t-junction for the two longest highways in the country makes it pretty hard to get lost once you becom familiar with the 4 or 5 major roadways.
does anyone know why they didn't make it 3 lanes like beltway west?
Quote from: CRAIG B on April 08, 2008, 12:03:50 PM
does anyone know why they didn't make it 3 lanes like beltway west?
Because they're cheap ass morons. they'll wait till traffic is unbearable then add a lane.
The west beltway is not three lanes for the length; just to I-10.
However, one thing they did was smart - look how wide the medians are. While this doesn't help with the cost of concrete, they won't have to buy land to expand the road.
haha, ain't that the truth stephenc!!! you got it right!!
Mabe thay can use the median for rail ?
I don't see that happening - the area is not walkable at all, and I don't see 9A from Phillips to Butler being a big rail corridor. There are actual walkable areas of the city that are not served by transit today.
Quote from: Beloki on April 08, 2008, 01:53:03 PM
Mabe thay can use the median for rail ?
Now that Beloki is a freaking great idea. A fast rail transit to the shopping center. Maybe all the shops can get together to pay for it. HA! Now I made a funny joke. but that would be a good idea. If the shops want the money make them install it.
In Orlando they call SR 408 simply, The 408.. I guess we could rename JTB the 202 =)
It is tolled so it is more recognizable than its working name, East-West Expressway. I have yet to see East-West Expressway on any sign out there, all it is the typical FL state route signage, just with TOLL above it.
The "East-West" is labled as such on I4.
Why can't we call the whole thing 295 isn't that what it is?
Back to the post about Racetrack and 95 there will never be an interchange at that location as St. Johns County decided to put a rest area in and that rest area is too close to Race Track for an interchange.
The 9B plans (at least from a couple years ago) actually show Race Track being rerouted south some and being in a large intersection with 9B that would quickly link into 95. Almost like Phillips gets you to 9A to 95 easily.
^ You're right about the DOT not wanting an interchange there because of their shiny new rest area. It just seems like a much more logical and cost effective solution, even at the expense of a rest area. 9B will definitely help the residents in that area, however, an interchange will do the same thing much cheaper and save thousands of acres of wetlands and woodlands from development. 9B's route does nothing but open up more land in northern St. Johns and southern Duval to more sprawling development.
Quote from: Jason on April 11, 2008, 09:04:47 AM
^ You're right about the DOT not wanting an interchange there because of their shiny new rest area. It just seems like a much more logical and cost effective solution, even at the expense of a rest area. 9B will definitely help the residents in that area, however, an interchange will do the same thing much cheaper and save thousands of acres of wetlands and woodlands from development. 9B's route does nothing but open up more land in northern St. Johns and southern Duval to more sprawling development.
So. The area couldn't use more Pulte townhomes, Chili's and Targets?
The funny thing is, there's enough room there to build an interchange without ripping out the rest area. It would have to be a half cloverleaf interchange on the northside of Race Track Road with an additional lane added between the interchange and the rest areas for merging.
Its not the space that is the problem. The DOT has strict guidlines with regard to development encroachment and vicinity to other establishments with restroom facilities.
Must be new. The Seminole County rest stop is just north of the 434/I-4 interchange in Altamonte and that area has been built up for over +20 years.
Good point. I can't find the article that talked about their development giudlines.
Wasn't the Marietta rest area on I-10 closed due to its close vicinity to other private facilities and development encroachment?
If you go out I-10, it looks like the new Branan Field-Chaffee Road (and there's another road needing a new name*) interchange is right on top of the westbound side of the rest area, and it looks like the ramps will extend very near the old eastbound location.
* but once the state gets a contractor to build the outer beltway and complete Branan Field-Chaffee Road, as a toll road, it may get a new name
Especially when those wetlands are directly behind your house. By my judgments the residents in the back of Bartram Springs (that back to Citi/Gran Bay area) will have 9B in their back yard. Has anyone else noticed this?
Quote from: Jason on April 11, 2008, 09:04:47 AM
^ You're right about the DOT not wanting an interchange there because of their shiny new rest area. It just seems like a much more logical and cost effective solution, even at the expense of a rest area. 9B will definitely help the residents in that area, however, an interchange will do the same thing much cheaper and save thousands of acres of wetlands and woodlands from development. 9B's route does nothing but open up more land in northern St. Johns and southern Duval to more sprawling development.
The End of State Road 9A...just in time for the End of the Car Culture.
I wonder if the powers that be are still thinking about that Outer Beltway now? I still say if we want to shed the backwater image, a great forward-thinking way is better & more bikelanes and the commuter rail. 2 very feasible projects that we could get started relatively easily.
Quote from: 2Qwick on June 05, 2008, 12:19:48 PM
Especially when those wetlands are directly behind your house. By my judgments the residents in the back of Bartram Springs (that back to Citi/Gran Bay area) will have 9B in their back yard. Has anyone else noticed this?
I had also heard that Cypress Trace development (Centex Condos next to the dog track / game room) was going to be wiped out by the extention / realignment. I cannot find anything to confirm this. Anybody know anything?
From the Florida DOT SR9B webpage: http://www.sr9b.com/sr9b/default.aspx
(from the DOT home page "major projects" then "District 2"
(http://www.sr9b.com/sr9b/images/SR9B_Aerial.jpg)
Eventually, it is supposed to connect to I-95 somewhere near Racetrack Road.
My wife spoke to a Duval planner... actually the project manager for the 9b project and he said the following.
1. It is going to happen
2. It will be going thru the space behind Bartram Springs (see the attached link)
3. Expected completion in 10 years (which would be construction would start in the next few)
http://www.fdotfirstcoastouterbeltway.com/forum_docs/Pink_11x17_rev.pdf
Let me guess: the Peytons own land near the proposed 9B? If so, this thing is a certainty. :-X
St. Johns County also approved funding for a land purchase (coupled with federal funds) to build the SJC portion of the roadway. This thing is going to happen.
So......Is 295 now complete?? Or is it still 295/9A?? What is the latest with the signs down there??
They took the signs pictured here down and replaced them with 9A signs. I assume they're not going to put up the 295 signage until the JTB interchange is complete.
Quote from: Coolyfett on October 02, 2008, 07:09:03 PM
So......Is 295 now complete?? Or is it still 295/9A?? What is the latest with the signs down there??
once the JTB interchange is completed, that means all ramps are open, 9A will go away. This should happen before the end of the year.
Quote from: reednavy on October 02, 2008, 08:20:43 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on October 02, 2008, 07:09:03 PM
So......Is 295 now complete?? Or is it still 295/9A?? What is the latest with the signs down there??
once the JTB interchange is completed, that means all ramps are open, 9A will go away. This should happen before the end of the year.
So every sign that said "9A" now says "295" ?
9-B only a possibility? Hell No... Written in STONE from Washington D.C.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/I-795.svg/749px-I-795.svg.png)
OCKLAWAHA
Last I heard, at a CPAC meeting I think, was that DOT expects the JTB interchange to be done around the first of the year (early 2009). I'm guessing that the signs won't be changed immediately, since the interchange wasn't due to be finished until the end of 2009. I wonder how many signs with "9A" there are? Not just the big green ones, but all those little white ones on all the side streets?
Get 'em while they're hot! One day they'll be JAX nostalgia. Think I'll put one in the garage!
Quote from: Charles Hunter on October 02, 2008, 10:45:12 PM
Last I heard, at a CPAC meeting I think, was that DOT expects the JTB interchange to be done around the first of the year (early 2009). I'm guessing that the signs won't be changed immediately, since the interchange wasn't due to be finished until the end of 2009. I wonder how many signs with "9A" there are? Not just the big green ones, but all those little white ones on all the side streets?
So I take it the signs still read 9A....
Quote from: Coolyfett on October 04, 2008, 09:38:08 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on October 02, 2008, 10:45:12 PM
Last I heard, at a CPAC meeting I think, was that DOT expects the JTB interchange to be done around the first of the year (early 2009). I'm guessing that the signs won't be changed immediately, since the interchange wasn't due to be finished until the end of 2009. I wonder how many signs with "9A" there are? Not just the big green ones, but all those little white ones on all the side streets?
So I take it the signs still read 9A....
They were a few days ago, and I don't think they are even going to begin change them until after they finish the JTB interchange around the first of the year.
Quote from: Driven1 on June 05, 2008, 01:10:36 PM
The End of State Road 9A...just in time for the End of the Car Culture.
I wonder if the powers that be are still thinking about that Outer Beltway now? I still say if we want to shed the backwater image, a great forward-thinking way is better & more bikelanes and the commuter rail. 2 very feasible projects that we could get started relatively easily.
Darn right. Gas prices higher, automobile driving lower, FDOT still pushing their 20 year plan. What's wrong with this picture?
As I understand it, the Outer Beltway won't happen unless they can bring on a private company to operate it as a toll road - no tax money (beyond what has already been spent on picking a route) involved.
My understanding as well. From what I remember, the Turnpike Authority's name was discussed as an option as well as some European company.
***Jacksonville's 9A now Ronald Reagan Memorial Highway***QuoteJacksonville motorists will now be able to drive one for The Gipper.
Thursday, the state officially designates Florida 9A as Ronald Reagan Memorial Highway.
This creates another roadway in Florida bearing the name of the 40th president. You can now take the Ronald Reagan Turnpike, Reagan Avenue in Miami, as well as Ronald Reagan Boulevard in Seminole County and two separate Ronald Reagan parkways, in Hillsborough and Polk counties.
The Times-Union asked about Reagan tributes and his legacy:
Will we now be calling Florida 9A the Ronald Reagan Memorial Highway?
Actually, Florida 9A will become part of Interstate 295 next year. Ronald Reagan Highway is a purely honorary designation, and people aren’t expected to call it Reagan Highway. Almost no one calls the Florida Turnpike the Reagan Turnpike.
Why is Florida 9A getting this honorary designation?
State Rep. Ronald “Doc†Renuart, R-Ponte Vedra Beach, sponsored legislation during the 2009 legislative session giving Florida 9A this designation. Renuart said the idea came to him from some constituents who said Florida 9A seemed like a good road to honor Reagan because the roadway were first drawn up when Reagan was president.
The Legislature loses the ability to put honorary designations on roads when the federal government takes over a road. By granting the designation now, it will remain in place when 9A becomes I-295.
Why are so many roads being named after Reagan?
The driving force behind naming things after Reagan comes from Americans For Tax Reform, a Washington conservative advocacy group that supports lower taxes and was founded by Grover Norquist in the 1980s to support Reagan’s tax cuts. In the ’90s the group formed the Ronald Reagan Legacy Project, dedicated to renaming public landmarks after Reagan. Officials with the Reagan Legacy Project said more than 100 landmarks in 28 states and 13 countries have been named after Reagan.
But why Reagan?
Norquist said naming so many thing after Reagan is appropriate because he was primarily responsible for winning the Cold War and establishing the conservative movement. Renuaut said the Reagan Legacy Project was not involved in his efforts with Florida 9A but likes the idea.
How does Reagan compare to other presidents?
Reagan is still behind John F. Kennedy. Norquist estimates that more than 600 roads, schools, bridges and other things have been named after Kennedy.
How much is this costing the taxpayers?
New signs are being installed on Florida 9A. Those signs cost $800 and are the only expense associated with this.
When and where is Thursday’s ceremony?
There will be ceremony at 10:30 a.m. near the interchange of Florida 9A and Philips Highway at the corner of Philips and Greenland Road. Access to parking will be just off Philips south of the Greenland traffic signal. State and local politicians are expected to speak at the event.
Sources: State Rep. Ronald “Doc†Renault, R-Ponte Vedra Beach; Gina Busscher, spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Transportation; Grover Norquist, founder and executive director of Americans For Tax Reform.
What a joke. I will puke everyday I drive by the signs. Is it possible to name the road after somebody of local interest?
I am not vomiting but it makes me wonder about this naming "honor". I noticed yesterday a short section of road near Roosevelt Blvd at Edgewood named for John Anderson (I think that was the name). Who is he that we named a little tag end of highway for him. If I were John Anderson or his family, I'm not sure how honored I feel.
QuoteThe driving force behind naming things after Reagan comes from Americans For Tax Reform, a Washington conservative advocacy group that supports lower taxes and was founded by Grover Norquist in the 1980s to support Reagan’s tax cuts.
It's ironic that they honor Reagan by naming a gigantic tax expenditure after him.
The 9a / JTB interchange alone cost
$80,513,019.78.
Interstate 295, Interstate 95 and S.R 9A Interchange: $45,082,577.97
Good numbers to put out there. Maybe my puking comment was much but I would much rather see it named after somebody with a larger local impact. Lawton Chiles, Tilly Fowler, Jim King, Bob Hayes. Anybody?
I just drove by there on my way into the office - they're setting up a small tent for the ceremony - looks like they are using about half a dozen inmates for the labor.
Sweet.
exactlu Liunican...I thought the same thing...the group favors lower taxes...but names PUBLIC infrastructure and monuments after Reagan
Quote from: blizz01 on August 27, 2009, 10:03:29 AM
I just drove by there on my way into the office - they're setting up a small tent for the ceremony - looks like they are using about half a dozen inmates for the labor.
Ha, hope they brought rainboots and ponchos.
This has probably been mentioned in another thread, but does anyone know why the 295 West Beltway and 295 East Beltway signs were erected and then taken down?
QuoteRenuart said the idea came to him from some constituents who said Florida 9A seemed like a good road to honor Reagan because the roadway were first drawn up when Reagan was president.
That says a lot. The whole eastern beltway was LONG overdue.
(http://www.firstcoastnews.com/genthumb.ashx?e=3&h=240&w=320&i=/assetpool/images/090827112105_082709_reagan2.JPG)
$800 a pop?
I still like, General Kirby Smith Highway, Senator David Yulee Highway, General Finegan Highway, General P.T.G. Beauregard Highway, Col. J. J. Dickison Highway...?...?..?
UN-RECONSTRUCTED!
Ah hell, let's just name it THE JEFFERSON BY-GOD DAVIS BELTWAY!
At least all of these guys fought to repel invasion of our soil.
OCKLAWAHA
DEO VINDICE Y'ALL!
sadly blizz $800 is pretty cheap for a road sign
Quote from: JaxNole on August 27, 2009, 11:14:33 AM
This has probably been mentioned in another thread, but does anyone know why the 295 West Beltway and 295 East Beltway signs were erected and then taken down?
Because USDOT had not approved the change yet....it isn't official until 2010
When "honors" are decided by politics and the "party in power", is it really an honor? To me, honor is when people of all stripes go through a process with standards and decide to honor you for your complete body of accomplishments for the good of all, not necessarily for one particular segment of the community ("tax reformists" as suggested here).
Was that process followed here? Not from what I read. Mr. Reagan probably wouldn't be impressed. And, after it's all done, no one will ever know it's anything other than I-295. Is that when an honor really is an insult? See the Lockett-Felder "honor" ;)
A more proper honor is naming a large civic building/complex such as an airport, municipal building, or bridge. A highway, meh, nothing really special.
Quote from: blizz01 on August 27, 2009, 06:35:34 PM
(http://www.firstcoastnews.com/genthumb.ashx?e=3&h=240&w=320&i=/assetpool/images/090827112105_082709_reagan2.JPG)
$800 a pop?
No, more like billions in tax cuts. Next, our City Council President will expect a similar honor for his efforts. Who says you can't buy love?
Did everyone forget about that road being tapped as the ingress/egress for the marvelous facility at Dames Point? 9A will have shipping container traffic out the wazoo on it.....it has to be beefed up and will only last about 3 years before it will have to be redone! Johnny and Mr Ferrin evidently forgot about "Rail" in and out to relieve congestion......Ock this is down your alley for sure! Did not find anything on MetroJax regarding the issue! CSX had the chance to make a killing and did not take it! Sounds like there was some political wheeling and dealing or a lack there of!
Here is a related article to the port logistics problem:
A Solution to JaxPort's Rail Logistics Problem? (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-apr-a-solution-to-jaxports-rail-logistics-problem)
QuoteThis has probably been mentioned in another thread, but does anyone know why the 295 West Beltway and 295 East Beltway signs were erected and then taken down?
They took the signs down? What the hell they do that for? When will they finally change the name?
the official change can not happen until 2010....regardless of the fact that the JTB interchange was finished a year ahead of schedule
Thanks for the link "Lunican"......much help!
I didn't notice the signage anywhere today - I wonder where they put it (them)...
♪ ♫ ..........I've been through the desert on a road with six names.......... ♪ ♫
I noticed that the city limit sign on the south end of town on I95 has a new addition on top that says "America's Logistics Center". Would be a good marketing angle.
They probably plan on capitalizing on that with the port continuing to grow, intersection of two major interstates, and covergence of several rail lines.
I wonder if Cecil Field could ever capitalize on cargo?
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 07, 2008, 10:02:26 AM
......"Jacksonville 17 miles?,"........"Jacksonville 12 Miles," Huh? Has Florida ever measured the distance from Jacksonville to anywhere? Are they aware the City Limits changed in the 1960's?
.........Ocklawaha
Highway standards are to measure to downtown not the edge of town. How they might have different distances is determined by method of measurement. (ie map scaling vs Google Earth vs gps vs driving)
Logistically, Jax is a fabulous location. I'm just glad to see at least SOME marketing in that general direction.
Anyone notice anything similar?
Overstreet, I think someone mentioned a simple fix before. Simply change Jacksonville 10 miles, to "Downtown Jax 10 miles"
I liked what they did to the overpass on 95 North @ St. Augustine Road: J A C K S O N V I L L E - the landscaping & fountains look great. Is there not an overpass that could be spruced up for travellers heading south into the state considering that's the first thing they'd see?
Quote from: Jason on September 03, 2009, 01:25:40 PM
I noticed that the city limit sign on the south end of town on I95 has a new addition on top that says "America's Logistics Center". Would be a good marketing angle.
This "angle"as first apporoved two years ago....right now, the signs are on I-10, I-95 North, and I-95 South when you enter Duval County....they ae expected to be added to roads like 9A (at heckscher) in the future.
Quote from: reednavy on September 03, 2009, 01:42:46 PM
They probably plan on capitalizing on that with the port continuing to grow, intersection of two major interstates, and covergence of several rail lines.
I wonder if Cecil Field could ever capitalize on cargo?
What do you call a tire distribution center with 8 dollar an hour jobs? KA-CHING!!!!
Quote from: copperfiend on September 03, 2009, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: reednavy on September 03, 2009, 01:42:46 PM
They probably plan on capitalizing on that with the port continuing to grow, intersection of two major interstates, and covergence of several rail lines.
I wonder if Cecil Field could ever capitalize on cargo?
What do you call a tire distribution center with 8 dollar an hour jobs? KA-CHING!!!!
HOD... "Highway Oriented Development," hee hee. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: blizz01 on September 03, 2009, 01:57:39 PM
I liked what the did to the overpass on 95 North @ St. Augustine Road: J A C K S O N V I L L E - the landscaping & fountains look great. Is there not an overpass that could be spruced up for travellers heading south into the state considering that's the first thing they'd see?
The developer of the office center where Baptist South is paid for all that fancy stuff at that interchange, in fact, I think they paid for much of the interchange itself. Now, if we can get another big bucks developer out on I-95 North or I-10 West to come through.
Mr Charles your correct......developer (whose name escapes me....getting old) did pay for all of that! There was a TU story on that enhancement and there does need to be more like it since a little sign at the county line is not the most appealing of signage!
Quote from: CS Foltz on September 04, 2009, 06:07:57 AM
Mr Charles your correct......developer (whose name escapes me....getting old) did pay for all of that!
I believe it was Flagler Development, a division of Florida East Coast/Rail America.
OK....private Enterprise hard at work......and a very nice touch. Too bad that is not used in other spots or something similar. A dinky little sign just does not have the impact of that area's touch! Of course we have other problems that are higher on the priority list but still a nice touch!
Anyone have any info on this? sr9a.info appears to no longer be the official FDOT site. I thought it was going to be done by the end of last year.
I thought it was supposed to be done by January? I guess they may be waiting for 9A/295 @95 junction near the airport to get done. I just wish they'd hurry up and do it already though.
Quote from: reednavy on March 02, 2010, 11:39:21 PM
I thought it was supposed to be done by January? I guess they may be waiting for 9A/295 @95 junction near the airport to get done. I just wish they'd hurry up and do it already though.
Thought "what" was supposed to be done? Please refresh this aging memory? The road seems to be done - except for that ramp at I-95 by the airport.
I was talking about the signage. The "east" loop of 295 is still labeled as 9a
Its not 295 EAST yet?
Bid opening for replacing the signs is scheduled for this June - per page 8 of FDOT status report:
http://www.dot.state.fl.us/publicinformationoffice/construc/pdf%20files/DUVAL.pdf (http://www.dot.state.fl.us/publicinformationoffice/construc/pdf%20files/DUVAL.pdf)
Oh good lord, so they put up a few 295 West and East Beltway signs, then take em down, and are now bidding to put them back up?
FDOT is such a damn joke.
Wow, and bidding is in JUNE! What do they do between now and then? Just scrape road-kill?
I guess, damn shame it is taking so long to HANG SIGNS, after already partially doing it before. Such a wasterful department FDOT is.
Don't get your hopes up for action anytime soon.
How about fixing the peeling traffic light poles after several YEARS of looking at the rusted eye sores. If I had a house peeling like that, I would have been cited by code enforcement. What an embarrassment.
And, still no fixes on Hendricks with the mislaid manhole covers.
And, that giant chunk of a steel mountain on San Jose just north of University in Lakewood is no winner either. Been there for weeks. So high, you have to drive in the parking lane to go around it.
Why build new roads when we can't keep up with the ones we have?
Quote from: stjr on March 03, 2010, 09:14:58 PM
Don't get your hopes up for action anytime soon.
How about fixing the peeling traffic light poles after several YEARS of looking at the rusted eye sores. If I had a house peeling like that, I would have been cited by code enforcement. What an embarrassment.
And, still no fixes on Hendricks with the mislaid manhole covers.
And, that giant chunk of a steel mountain on San Jose just north of University in Lakewood is no winner either. Been there for weeks. So high, you have to drive in the parking lane to go around it.
Why build new roads when we can't keep up with the ones we have?
actually, national statistics show that Florida's roads are in better condition than just about every other state.
Yeah,if you think Florida roads are "bad" you should drive in upstate NY,Pennsylvania or anywhere north.
Roads look like Serbian military have shelled it and then rolled over with tanks..and then NATO bombed it again.
Plus road salt.
Go North on I-95. You will know instantly when you hit South Carolina. Florida and Virginia have the best maintained roads in the East.
But, don't get me started about the manhole covers in this city. Why do the covers sit an inch or so below the rim of the manhole? Why is the concrete around them always broken up?
Let's start a pool on how long Bos can go on any subject anytime without bringing up Serbs.
Quote from: reednavy on March 03, 2010, 08:24:05 PM
Oh good lord, so they put up a few 295 West and East Beltway signs, then take em down, and are now bidding to put them back up?
FDOT is such a damn joke.
Is that not waste of material AND money?
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 03, 2010, 11:16:30 PM
actually, national statistics show that Florida's roads are in better condition than just about every other state.
Exactly. Drive in Oklahoma or Arkansas. Not pretty.
Best interstate in the nation again is I-40 in TN, of course this was before the giant rockslide on the TN/NC border last fall.
QuoteHow about fixing the peeling traffic light poles after several YEARS of looking at the rusted eye sores. If I had a house peeling like that, I would have been cited by code enforcement. What an embarrassment.
I have been noticing these lately, they look AWFUL. They look like trees shedding their bark (birch maybe). Just awful to look at.
Well,you see how Germans are smart.They are selling their potholes for $50.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view/20100304-256584/Potholes-for-sale-in-German-village
That would be too tacky for Jacksonville.
Signed,
City bus with full wrap ad from Hooters
I always wish we had some sort of identity on the roadways, like tampa's signs on their interstates:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/3894953122_94d333accf.jpg)
Something to distinguish us.
Yeah,we should hang confederate flags on poles down entire highway.
stfu
I was joking man.
Quote from: coredumped on March 04, 2010, 07:30:05 PM
I always wish we had some sort of identity on the roadways, like tampa's signs on their interstates:
this was an urban design concept that went with the improvements tro I-4 and I-275...sadly, white was a really bad idea...those poles are getting really dirty
This was an expensive, but nice feature under I-4 in Ybor.
(http://www.sptimes.com/2007/08/04/images/tb_fountain_450.jpg)
I also like the brick facades on the overpasses through Ybor...makes the big hulking wide structure fit into the neighborhood a little bit better
I just mailed FDOT and it looks like it's going to be a bit longer:
QuoteWe received last month the needed approval from the Federal Highway Administration to make the changes. The current schedule is construction bids will be received next February. There is a 150-day procurement time to order materials such as trusses and new signs so I would expect that you should see the start of actual work by late summer or early fall of 2011. This is obviously subject to change, but the major hurdle was getting the approval from the Federal Highway Administration. The regulatory issues have been satisfied so now we can go through the process of advertising the project for construction bids.
Someone asked if JTB met FHA standards.
From the Beach ramps to just west of Southside it does.
From a point west of Southside near Belfort to I-95, it does not meet FHA standards and will not until the I-95 intersection is completely revamped. Until then, there is no possibility of it ever getting a spur designation.
I'm wondering if that is some of the reasoning behind the complete reconstruction of that whole mess.
I highly doubt we could justify spending $100 million just to get an interstate designation....that said, the reasons for reconstructing are to make the roadway safer and meet current expressway standards.
If the road were to get an interstate designation, it would most likely be I-995....as 195, 395, and 595 are already taken in south Florida and some believe that SR 9B has already been granted the 795 designation.
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 08, 2010, 07:58:51 AM
I highly doubt we could justify spending $100 million just to get an interstate designation....that said, the reasons for reconstructing are to make the roadway safer and meet current expressway standards.
If the road were to get an interstate designation, it would most likely be I-995....as 195, 395, and 595 are already taken in south Florida and some believe that SR 9B has already been granted the 795 designation.
Thinking out of the box a little bit, to facilitate I-10 being the coast to coast highway, they could extend the I-10 name further east to reach the beach. Not impossible, but not likely.
Why don't we make it a "Toll Road"..............we could get something for our tax dollars that way?
Quote from: CS Foltz on November 09, 2010, 06:56:00 AM
Why don't we make it a "Toll Road"..............we could get something for our tax dollars that way?
do you really want to add tolls to what is today a "free" ropad? This could have been an option with the 5th and 6th lanes that were recently added (HOT lanes), but now that they're in, no way....so unless you're willing to widen JTB further, I think tolls are out.
Quote from: spuwho on November 08, 2010, 08:32:26 PM
QuoteIf the road were to get an interstate designation, it would most likely be I-995....as 195, 395, and 595 are already taken in south Florida and some believe that SR 9B has already been granted the 795 designation.
Thinking out of the box a little bit, to facilitate I-10 being the coast to coast highway, they could extend the I-10 name further east to reach the beach. Not impossible, but not likely.
How about I-6 or I-8? After all, how many interstates could be built south of I-10 and north of I-4?
We could make it famous as the nation's shortest interstate! :D
Quote from: coredumped on March 04, 2010, 07:30:05 PM
I always wish we had some sort of identity on the roadways, like tampa's signs on their interstates:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/3894953122_94d333accf.jpg)
Something to distinguish us.
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JKCOyAiLZVE/0.jpg)
WE DO! We just don't know it...YET.OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: coredumped on November 03, 2010, 09:59:01 AM
I just mailed FDOT and it looks like it's going to be a bit longer:
QuoteWe received last month the needed approval from the Federal Highway Administration to make the changes. The current schedule is construction bids will be received next February. There is a 150-day procurement time to order materials such as trusses and new signs so I would expect that you should see the start of actual work by late summer or early fall of 2011. This is obviously subject to change, but the major hurdle was getting the approval from the Federal Highway Administration. The regulatory issues have been satisfied so now we can go through the process of advertising the project for construction bids.
The signs still on track? Also, will they employ the "Beltway" terminology?
they will employ the "Beltway" terminology...you can see this on the new signs going up on I-10 west of town
Paging Charles Hunter!
IIRC, they will be called the "East Beltway" and "West Beltway" (you figure out which is which). I heard at CPAC the other night that the contractor has been selected, and work will start later this year. All of the loop will be I-295.
Got an email from the FDOT today (take that unresponsive JTA) and it's just as you say: Bid awarded in February to a Tampa company, should start putting up the signs in September, and finish in the spring. FYI: Not that I doubted you --- I sent the email prior to the last MJ post.
Didn't know there were signs up on I-10 already. I'll look for them next time I'm out there.
Speaking of that, the two times I have e-mailed FDOT about something, they have been very good to respond.
It's finally happening. Signage will start going up tomorrow:
QuoteJACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- State Road 9A is being turned over to the feds.
Florida Department of Transportation spokesman Mike Goldman announced this morning that State Road 9A will now become Interstate 295, meaning the entire 61-mile loop around Jacksonville will officially be the same road.
JOIN THE DISCUSSION ON FACEBOOK
I-295 currently runs on the west side of I-95 from the Northside to Mandarin, and 9A comprises the eastern half of the road.
Starting Dec. 4, the names of both will change.
What is currently State Road 9A will become the "I-295 East Beltway," and the current I-295 will be the "I-295 West Beltway."
RELATED: See the New Exit Numbers
Goldman said a $1.3 million project will get underway next week to change about 350 signs throughout the loop and its access roads, and add 13 new sign structures. The money is being provided by the Florida DOT.
The work should last through the winter and be completed in the spring. During the project, lanes may be closed from 7:30 p.m. to 6 a.m. Sundays through Thursdays.
The contractor is Tampa-based Highway Safety Devices, Inc., and the Jacksonville office of Jones, Edmonds and Associates Construction Engineering Services is managing the project.
Once complete, the I-295 beltway will be part of the federal interstate highway system.
First Coast News
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/rss/article/229258/3/I-295-SR-9A-Getting-13-Million-Name-Change
http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtlv/docs/exits.pdf
Quote from: iMarvin on December 03, 2011, 12:44:49 PM
It's finally happening. Signage will start going up tomorrow:
QuoteJACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- State Road 9A is being turned over to the feds.
Florida Department of Transportation spokesman Mike Goldman announced this morning that State Road 9A will now become Interstate 295, meaning the entire 61-mile loop around Jacksonville will officially be the same road.
JOIN THE DISCUSSION ON FACEBOOK
I-295 currently runs on the west side of I-95 from the Northside to Mandarin, and 9A comprises the eastern half of the road.
Starting Dec. 4, the names of both will change.
What is currently State Road 9A will become the "I-295 East Beltway," and the current I-295 will be the "I-295 West Beltway."
RELATED: See the New Exit Numbers
Goldman said a $1.3 million project will get underway next week to change about 350 signs throughout the loop and its access roads, and add 13 new sign structures. The money is being provided by the Florida DOT.
The work should last through the winter and be completed in the spring. During the project, lanes may be closed from 7:30 p.m. to 6 a.m. Sundays through Thursdays.
The contractor is Tampa-based Highway Safety Devices, Inc., and the Jacksonville office of Jones, Edmonds and Associates Construction Engineering Services is managing the project.
Once complete, the I-295 beltway will be part of the federal interstate highway system.
First Coast News
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/rss/article/229258/3/I-295-SR-9A-Getting-13-Million-Name-Change
http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtlv/docs/exits.pdf
Thats positive. good to see 9A Dead.
I think it is and has always been interesting that a beltway around a city is deemed an "Interstate" . I would call it the 295 belt way or the beltway or that road or whatever but since 295 (last time I checked, anyway) only circles Jacksonville, it does not seem to me like it would have "Interstate Status" . just sayin ::)
9A is not dead....every interstate and US highway in Florida also has a state road #...so the state ID for I-295 will continue to be 9A.
as to Timkin's point above, the 3-digit interstates are loops or spurs off of the base 2-digit highways...so, in Florida, those would be I-110, I-195, I-295, I-395, I-595, I-175, I-275, and I-375,,,and if Ock is correct, SR 9B may be I-795
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 03, 2011, 10:07:00 PM
9A is not dead....every interstate and US highway in Florida also has a state road #...so the state ID for I-295 will continue to be 9A.
as to Timkin's point above, the 3-digit interstates are loops or spurs off of the base 2-digit highways...so, in Florida, those would be I-110, I-195, I-295, I-395, I-595, I-175, I-275, and I-375,,,and if Ock is correct, SR 9B may be I-795
Yeah they are a subset of the interstates they are attached to. Gotta love wikipedia, I learn so much nearly useless info. ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_auxiliary_Interstate_Highways
I guess that it is great news that with all the budget cuts and the cut backs on all levels that FDOT is spending $1.3 million just to change the name of a road? Did this recession end and nobody told me? And all those funds going to an out of town company. Yep. makes perfect sense to me.
well strider, this has been in the works and on FDOT's priority list for years...and yes, they are delaying projects because of lower than expected revenies.
as for where the funds go, Federal law prohibits givernments from having any local preference criteria when spending Federal $ (which this is).
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 04, 2011, 08:47:25 AM
well strider, this has been in the works and on FDOT's priority list for years...and yes, they are delaying projects because of lower than expected revenies.
as for where the funds go, Federal law prohibits givernments from having any local preference criteria when spending Federal $ (which this is).
None of that excuses the fact that 1.3 million is being spent to change the name of a road. That people have been using all this time just fine. Wasteful in the best of times, criminal in times like these. It is a project that should not have been period regardless of when the decision was made. Think of it this way, why the name change? To make it easier to have out of towners know which roads to take through and around Jacksonville? Yep, good common sense in play there anyway you look at it.
It's waste of money that makes the issue more confusing anyway.
Instead of taking 9A North you will take I-295 East Beltway North.
Quote from: strider on December 04, 2011, 08:15:21 AM
I guess that it is great news that with all the budget cuts and the cut backs on all levels that FDOT is spending $1.3 million just to change the name of a road? Did this recession end and nobody told me? And all those funds going to an out of town company. Yep. makes perfect sense to me.
I know, right? We have cuts of all kinds going on around us, but the Interstate signage has top priority. It seems like the decal material they attach to metal to create a sign could just be attached to the existing.. Maybe not. but seems like it would cost a lot less than a totally new sign or in this case many signs.
Quote from: Lunican on December 04, 2011, 11:52:57 AM
It's waste of money that makes the issue more confusing anyway.
Instead of taking 9A North you will take I-295 East Beltway North.
lots of cities have beltways and they figure it out...for example, DC uses terms like inner loop and outer loop
Quote from: Timkin on December 04, 2011, 02:57:03 PM
Quote from: strider on December 04, 2011, 08:15:21 AM
I guess that it is great news that with all the budget cuts and the cut backs on all levels that FDOT is spending $1.3 million just to change the name of a road? Did this recession end and nobody told me? And all those funds going to an out of town company. Yep. makes perfect sense to me.
I know, right? We have cuts of all kinds going on around us, but the Interstate signage has top priority. It seems like the decal material they attach to metal to create a sign could just be attached to the existing.. Maybe not. but seems like it would cost a lot less than a totally new sign or in this case many signs.
I think it has to be a different shape for Interstates. There's been a 295 sign next to the 9A sign at the onramp at St. Johns Bluff for a couple weeks already.
Quote from: stephendare on December 04, 2011, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 04, 2011, 07:23:13 PM
Quote from: Lunican on December 04, 2011, 11:52:57 AM
It's waste of money that makes the issue more confusing anyway.
Instead of taking 9A North you will take I-295 East Beltway North.
lots of cities have beltways and they figure it out...for example, DC uses terms like inner loop and outer loop
gosh. those people in DC are so advanced.
what...you don't think folks in Jax. can figure it out?
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 04, 2011, 07:23:13 PM
Quote from: Lunican on December 04, 2011, 11:52:57 AM
It's waste of money that makes the issue more confusing anyway.
lots of cities have beltways and they figure it out...for example, DC uses terms like inner loop and outer loop
It's dumb everywhere tufsu. This is what happens when we spend billions of dollars on roads that start and end in the same place.
To each their own...I have seen the pros (and cons) of beltways personally in Baltimore and Washington
Check out the concentric zone model...it is one of three major theories of urban spatial organization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentric_zone_model
Other najor models are sector and multiple niclei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sector_model
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_nuclei_model
Quote from: Lunican on December 04, 2011, 09:54:19 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 04, 2011, 07:23:13 PM
Quote from: Lunican on December 04, 2011, 11:52:57 AM
It's waste of money that makes the issue more confusing anyway.
lots of cities have beltways and they figure it out...for example, DC uses terms like inner loop and outer loop
It's dumb everywhere tufsu. This is what happens when we spend billions of dollars on roads that start and end in the same place.
question...is it that you don't like roads or the loop idea? because if it is the latter, then I guess you have a problem with the design of the L in downtown Chicago too?
Why can' t they just put stickers with I-295 over the existing 9A and save a bunch of money, like they did downtown when FCCJ was changed to FSCJ?
Maybe they could use the savings to smooth I-10 going into town. The area near the Ramona flea market going into town is like a washboard. They keep cutting sections out, and replacing the concrete, making it very uneven.
They should smooth it out once they are done replacing the failed sections. Personally, I am glad to finally see it become all I-295.
Quote from: mbwright on December 05, 2011, 08:44:19 AM
Maybe they could use the savings to smooth I-10 going into town. The area near the Ramona flea market going into town is like a washboard. They keep cutting sections out, and replacing the concrete, making it very uneven.
as fsujax noted, they will "sand" the road down after replacing all the sections....just like they are doing on Roosevelt Blvd.
btw...FDOT just started the same process on I-95 near JTB...the one lane is really rough right now
I agree that the completed I-295 beltway was a long time coming as well as the signage. I remember that the same happened when I-695 was completed around Baltimore.
The only question that lingers in my head, outside of I-295, is why I-10 was not built to terminate at the Beaches.
Thanks, it just seems like they have been working on I-10 in some capcitiy it for years....
In Santa Monica on I-10 they have a "Jacksonville 2,460" sign, I say we should return the favor while they're at it.
Quote from: mbwright on December 05, 2011, 08:44:19 AM
Why can' t they just put stickers with I-295 over the existing 9A and save a bunch of money, like they did downtown when FCCJ was changed to FSCJ?
Maybe they could use the savings to smooth I-10 going into town. The area near the Ramona flea market going into town is like a washboard. They keep cutting sections out, and replacing the concrete, making it very uneven.
^^ That idea was basically what I meant in an earlier post. Attach Decal Material over an existing sign. I know Interstate signs have a different shape, but Decal Material showing the very same image should suffice.
decals might work on the big overhead signs....but not on all the post signs on the road side.
Look folks, $1.3 million for all the signs along 9A and on every road intersecting it is not much at all....I'll bet there are close to 200 signs that have to be changed
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 09, 2011, 10:06:14 PM
decals might work on the big overhead signs....but not on all the post signs on the road side.
Look folks, $1.3 million for all the signs along 9A and on every road intersecting it is not much at all....I'll bet there are close to 200 signs that have to be changed
I don't think it matters if it is a great deal or not. The point should be: Why bother? It is one of those things done that costs a lot of money, and to most 1.3 mil is still a lot of money, that will not help Jacksonville much at all, if any, and is being done because it makes the designation of the road in line with other "beltways". Sorry, it is one of those wasteful expenditures that makes me wonder whose uncle is getting a new Mercedes out of it.
the reason is simple....whether you like it or not, it has been in the plans for decades...and costs are cheaper now than they've been in a long time.
honestly, it was always part of the deal inextending 9A all the way around on the southeast...and it would be difficult to state that the completion of the beltway doesn't have any beneit to our region...just ask the logistics companies involved with the port.
Quote from: Sonic101 on December 09, 2011, 06:12:29 PM
In Santa Monica on I-10 they have a "Jacksonville 2,460" sign, I say we should return the favor while they're at it.
Our sign to read: Many California Communities- Light Years Ahead