Metro Jacksonville

Not everyone is willing to throw their money into downtown at this point...

Quote“There’s an almost imponderable number of variables you have to deal with,” Gonzales said. “There’s very little clarity into the future. I’m not Promethean. So when you go Downtown, you have to presume a Renaissance, and they’re still in the Dark Ages.”

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/2013/06/jacksonville-investor-on-downtown.html

Love this quote

“There are too many events that have to occur that I’m not in control of,” he said, “but one of them would have to be some insightful and judicious leadership from our politicians.”

Quote from: thelakelander on June 22, 2013, 06:21:50 PM
Not everyone is willing to throw their money into downtown at this point...

Quote“There’s an almost imponderable number of variables you have to deal with,” Gonzales said. “There’s very little clarity into the future. I’m not Promethean. So when you go Downtown, you have to presume a Renaissance, and they’re still in the Dark Ages.”

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/2013/06/jacksonville-investor-on-downtown.html

Additional quotes from Biz Journal:

"Well, I asked Gonzales, what would change your mind?"

“There are too many events that have to occur that I’m not in control of,” he said, “but one of them would have to be some insightful and judicious leadership from our politicians.”

Wonder what Gonzales had in mind..... specifically?  I agree that there is a high probability that any emergence from the "Dark Ages" in the core could be sparked by some "right" actions from some of our politicians.  If this is actually true .... and if the right actions are indeed possible.... I wonder why the actions don't occur ... that is, given the obvious need for action?

What conditions or habits are preventing the decisions and actions necessary to cause or force what we could call a renaissance in the urban core?     

Ron I wonder the same thing.  It would have been helpful for him to addressed some of the things he thinks need changing to create the "right" environment.  For instance, we all know we need more insightful and judicious leaders, no argument there, but what other things are red flags to him?

Some, not all use the the Jacksonville market to get further established and reach a level of equity to leverage their opportunity into another market, or into a larger property.

With the recent "blood bath" in mid-tier commercial properties like this, some pension funds, investment funds, or hedge funds that have foreclosed on prior owners or LLC's, are finally disposing of these assets now that the market is starting to sort out, but before new inventory gets built out.

Not sure what Mr. Gonzales has in mind long term, but he seems to have other real estate investment vehicles out there to work the market along with his wife.

Acord Centurion LLC
Acorn Deerwood 1 LLC
Acorn Lakeside LLC
Acorn Family Limited Partnership I and II LLP
900 Regency Square Corporation
Acorn Daytona LLC
Acorn Ridge Lending
Acorn Ridge
Coral Kote International

Please allow me a little venting.

I'm becoming increasingly disappointed in individuals like Gonzales, not intending to pick on him personally of course, but some of these fellows obviously have some cash, and the ability to borrow.  Unfortunately the comfortable fellows, with the money to engage investment, seem unwilling to take the urban core risk.  I find myself disappointed and even angered by the repeated decisions by investors and businesses to avoid the core...... to take the easy routes ....to remain unwilling to engage the challenge of the core. 

Risk is a valid factor to consider of course, but I sense that we’ve in our era, and our northeast Florida environment, too many comfortable fellows who seem to lack the balls and the vision to do anything but take the easy routes ... routes which stabilize with mediocrity in the suburbs .... when they could achieve high marks and make great changes if they would “initiate” a renaissance in the core instead of waiting for somebody else to do it.  Get a vision and take a little risk fellows.

Although there are some bold and innovative investors and movers and shakers in northeast Florida, our area seems to be infected with too many comfortable and moneyed fellows who have no balls, vision, or desire to make Jacksonville what it could and should be.

I feel better now.   

   

 

Quote from: ronchamblin on June 22, 2013, 07:12:38 PM
Please allow me a little venting.

I'm becoming increasingly disappointed in individuals like Gonzales, not intending to pick on him personally of course, but some of these fellows obviously have some cash, and the ability to borrow.  Unfortunately the comfortable fellows, with the money to engage investment, seem unwilling to take the urban core risk.  I find myself disappointed and even angered by the repeated decisions by investors and businesses to avoid the core...... to take the easy routes ....to remain unwilling to engage the challenge of the core. 

Risk is a valid factor to consider of course, but I sense that we’ve in our era, and our northeast Florida environment, too many comfortable fellows who seem to lack the balls and the vision to do anything but take the easy routes ... routes which stabilize with mediocrity in the suburbs .... when they could achieve high marks and make great changes if they would “initiate” a renaissance in the core instead of waiting for somebody else to do it.  Get a vision and take a little risk fellows.

Although there are some bold and innovative investors and movers and shakers in northeast Florida, our area seems to be infected with too many comfortable and moneyed fellows who have no balls, vision, or desire to make Jacksonville what it could and should be.

I feel better now.   
   

I agree Ron and I am glad you feel better.  :)

Quote from: spuwho on June 22, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
Some, not all use the the Jacksonville market to get further established and reach a level of equity to leverage their opportunity into another market, or into a larger property.

With the recent "blood bath" in mid-tier commercial properties like this, some pension funds, investment funds, or hedge funds that have foreclosed on prior owners or LLC's, are finally disposing of these assets now that the market is starting to sort out, but before new inventory gets built out.

Not sure what Mr. Gonzales has in mind long term, but he seems to have other real estate investment vehicles out there to work the market along with his wife.

Acord Centurion LLC
Acorn Deerwood 1 LLC
Acorn Lakeside LLC
Acorn Family Limited Partnership I and II LLP
900 Regency Square Corporation
Acorn Daytona LLC
Acorn Ridge Lending
Acorn Ridge
Coral Kote International

I would say that without knowing what he has in mind, it is a bit difficult to take his statements about us being in the dark ages as anything more than an easy swipe at Jacksonville.  With insight and investment perhaps he could help move the city away from the "dark ages".  Looks to me like he is still willing to invest in some areas of our expansive stone age habitat.  lmao  Perhaps he will consider us once we more efficiently learn how to use the "wheel".  :)

Quote from: ronchamblin on June 22, 2013, 07:12:38 PM
Please allow me a little venting.

I'm becoming increasingly disappointed in individuals like Gonzales, not intending to pick on him personally of course, but some of these fellows obviously have some cash, and the ability to borrow.  Unfortunately the comfortable fellows, with the money to engage investment, seem unwilling to take the urban core risk.  I find myself disappointed and even angered by the repeated decisions by investors and businesses to avoid the core...... to take the easy routes ....to remain unwilling to engage the challenge of the core. 

Risk is a valid factor to consider of course, but I sense that we’ve in our era, and our northeast Florida environment, too many comfortable fellows who seem to lack the balls and the vision to do anything but take the easy routes ... routes which stabilize with mediocrity in the suburbs .... when they could achieve high marks and make great changes if they would “initiate” a renaissance in the core instead of waiting for somebody else to do it.  Get a vision and take a little risk fellows.

Although there are some bold and innovative investors and movers and shakers in northeast Florida, our area seems to be infected with too many comfortable and moneyed fellows who have no balls, vision, or desire to make Jacksonville what it could and should be.

I feel better now.   

   

why do that when there is easy money to make.

Why criticize this guy for saying the same thing that everyone else says on this forum.  He is saying he would be foolish to invest in the core until the leadership of the city shows that they actually have a clue.  Can't argue with that.

The fact that the city is even considering cutting down the trees and taking out the benches in Hemming Plaza, or letting anyone and everyone build the most suburban designs imaginable in the core, and not lifting a finger to preserve historic buildings in the core or Springfield, is pretty damning evidence that the city leaders still don't have a clue as to what it takes to create an urban renaissance.     
   

Why would a commercial property firm be interested in the urban core when all he has done is develop suburban type office centers?

(Rhetorically) Do you think someone who can buy existing sub or ex-urban properties, repaint them and call them lease ready would have an interest in dealing with the varied requirements of working in an urban setting?

- Preservation
- Historicals
- Zoning
- Code compliance
- Parking (think Landing here)
- Access to amenities
- Tech aware layouts

and still price it competitively on a psf basis?

I would like to guess that this is where he believes Jacksonville is in the "dark ages". No cohesive planning or strategy about how the urban core should be laid out.  And when we do try to lay out plans, we nit pick it to death until all the special interests have walked over it and end up where we started in the first place.

Only those who have power along with their wealth are willing to deal with this. (ie: Shad Khan)

Those who fall well below Mr. Khan in either just simply will make their money elsewhere. Why go through the hassle?

This is the kind of announcement that irks me to the core. He manages to cast aspersions on Downtown without identifying one concrete thing that would make him more "comfortable" in investing there. It could be that he'd invest in downtown if some reasonable positive changes were made, or it could be that he'd never consider anything but cheap suburban office parks as a worthy investment. Weak, weak, weak.

Good question fsquid. .”Why do that when there is easy money to make?”
And makes sense spuwho… “Those who fall well below Mr. Khan  in either, just simply will make their money elsewhere.  Why go through the hassle?”

The goal of making easy money, while giving little or no thought to issues and consequences related to the process, is the American Way…. as taught by the momentum of bimbo brained thinking in the media and most other institutions over many decades.  Yes, anything for maximum profit, no matter the consequences for society, the environment, the working class or, in our case, the suffering urban core.

As recent history has shown, the elite wealthy amongst us, in their quest to be worth more than perhaps their current “twenty million”, will do anything to become worth “twenty billion”, including engaging in practices which ultimately destroy our economy and the ability of the working class to make a survivable living.  The thought process they engage is that of greed, a crime which goes unpunished simply because it is not officially on the books, and because the process of engaging in actions of greed are hidden in criminal activity, the prosecution of which is prevented by bimbo brained, bought, and corrupt politicians, lawyers, and judges.

Easy money?  Fine to seek.  However, every time someone takes the easy route to obtain maximum profit or wealth, as offered by the bimbo thinking “American Way”, we lose in those areas where real work is needed,  where real sacrifice is needed, and where real gains are to be had, gains which stay for many decades, and do not disappear or decline as in a yacht, or multiple homes, or aircraft , or boasting to one's fellow moneyed elites.

Any investment has components of risk and potential gain, with valuable peripheral gains often not seen by the investor, gains which can be made for the urban core.  Investment decisions in northeast Florida made without regard for the needs of our urban core only shows the weakness of the investor, the shallow intentions, the obsession with easy money, an unwillingness to perform real work, an unwillingness to sacrifice, an unwillingness to be concerned for the health of the core, and therefore all citizens of the county who would benefit if it is allowed to emerge to health and vibrancy.   

Yes… Mr. Kahn  is “up there” with the wealth, and therefore has some power.  But regarding the realm of the urban core, I cannot be impressed with him until he takes the real challenge in northeast Florida, which is that of using his wealth and power to force the urban core past the barrier of stagnation.  Is it his responsibility to “revitalize the core”?  Certainly not.  But let’s not shower excessive praise until there is reason for it.  The Jaguars is one thing.  The shipyard development is another.  Both are perhaps sure and easy money makers.  The degree to which the “300 foot television” and the swimming pool will positively affect the revitalization of the urban core is unknown at this point.  One can always “say” that the $40 million or so taxpayer investment in the stadium will be well invested.  But, will it actually “be” a good investment for the city?  Or will it be another form of the boondoggle? 

How many boondoggles have the citizens of Jacksonville engaged?  That’s another story. 

Any objective or goal can be conquered if persistent correct decisions are made regarding it. Apparently, over several decades, not enough people in and around the core have consistently make the right decisions regarding the goal of urban renewal â€" and perhaps some have made decisions obstructing the goal.

Instead of seeking the easy money in the suburbs, maximum profits at all costs, and 300 foot bimbo lights in the stadium….how about quality and long term vision regarding the urban core and its impact upon north east Florida, how about real concern… how about real commitment to worthy goals…. how about real sacrifice…. how about real work…how about something different?
 

Quote from: vicupstate on June 22, 2013, 10:37:26 PM
Why criticize this guy for saying the same thing that everyone else says on this forum.  He is saying he would be foolish to invest in the core until the leadership of the city shows that they actually have a clue.  Can't argue with that.

The fact that the city is even considering cutting down the trees and taking out the benches in Hemming Plaza, or letting anyone and everyone build the most suburban designs imaginable in the core, and not lifting a finger to preserve historic buildings in the core or Springfield, is pretty damning evidence that the city leaders still don't have a clue as to what it takes to create an urban renaissance.     
   

Exactly Vic, he is doing what "everybody" else does!  Perhaps we have become too used to hearing these criticisms and allowing or agreeing with them without question.  I stated in my response to his post that we all well know the need for political change.  That however is a national problem and not exclusive to Jacksonville.  No news here, but when someone disses Jacksonville as in the dark ages without listing valid reasons or sharing a single idea to change what is "wrong" or offer any "solutions" to the perceived problems it's nothing more than casting dispersions without any desire to do the work to create change. 

I think we in Jacksonville need to stop the habit of so readily believing things will not and cannot change when so many, including a bunch of folks on this forum, are working so hard to better things.  If the person doing the criticizing will not buy into change or solutions, I frankly have no patience with their view about a lacking city.   Just my opinion.

Silly article, Let's ask a sprawlville investor to talk about downtown. 

Quote from: JeffreyS on June 23, 2013, 09:18:45 AM
Silly article, Let's ask a sprawlville investor to talk about downtown. 

+1

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on June 23, 2013, 08:40:35 AM

Quote from: vicupstate on June 22, 2013, 10:37:26 PM
Why criticize this guy for saying the same thing that everyone else says on this forum.  He is saying he would be foolish to invest in the core until the leadership of the city shows that they actually have a clue.  Can't argue with that.

The fact that the city is even considering cutting down the trees and taking out the benches in Hemming Plaza, or letting anyone and everyone build the most suburban designs imaginable in the core, and not lifting a finger to preserve historic buildings in the core or Springfield, is pretty damning evidence that the city leaders still don't have a clue as to what it takes to create an urban renaissance.     
   

Exactly Vic, he is doing what "everybody" else does!  Perhaps we have become too used to hearing these criticisms and allowing or agreeing with them without question.  I stated in my response to his post that we all well know the need for political change.  That however is a national problem and not exclusive to Jacksonville.  No news here, but when someone disses Jacksonville as in the dark ages without listing valid reasons or sharing a single idea to change what is "wrong" or offer any "solutions" to the perceived problems it's nothing more than casting dispersions without any desire to do the work to create change. 

I think we in Jacksonville need to stop the habit of so readily believing things will not and cannot change when so many, including a bunch of folks on this forum, are working so hard to better things.  If the person doing the criticizing will not buy into change or solutions, I frankly have no patience with their view about a lacking city.   Just my opinion.

He did list a reason: Weak leadership. And I think it is reasonable to infer a solution, 'change the leaders mindset or change the leaders'.   And from my take on it, he means LOCAL leadership.  Obama and even Rick Scott are not responsible for revitializing Jacksonville's Urban Core.  The mayor, the city council , the business community and grassroots leadership are. 

Let's stop being offended by those that point out the problems (killing the messenger), and start being offended by those that aren't FIXING the problems, when they are paid quite handsomely to fix them (ie the mayor and council for starters).  In my original post, I listed three examples of what has to change. 

Instead of bashing Mr. Gonzales, you should be thanking him for giving credibility to your collective cries of 'get a clue Jacksonville, you're stuck in the '80's and you need to wake up'. 

Quote from: ronchamblin on June 22, 2013, 07:12:38 PM
Please allow me a little venting.

I'm becoming increasingly disappointed in individuals like Gonzales, not intending to pick on him personally of course, but some of these fellows obviously have some cash, and the ability to borrow.  Unfortunately the comfortable fellows, with the money to engage investment, seem unwilling to take the urban core risk.  I find myself disappointed and even angered by the repeated decisions by investors and businesses to avoid the core...... to take the easy routes ....to remain unwilling to engage the challenge of the core. 

Risk is a valid factor to consider of course, but I sense that we’ve in our era, and our northeast Florida environment, too many comfortable fellows who seem to lack the balls and the vision to do anything but take the easy routes ... routes which stabilize with mediocrity in the suburbs .... when they could achieve high marks and make great changes if they would “initiate” a renaissance in the core instead of waiting for somebody else to do it.  Get a vision and take a little risk fellows.

Although there are some bold and innovative investors and movers and shakers in northeast Florida, our area seems to be infected with too many comfortable and moneyed fellows who have no balls, vision, or desire to make Jacksonville what it could and should be.

I feel better now.   

   

 

Ron, How would you like to see the Northbank Urban Core from the St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative and when we are paddling by Berkman and the Shipyards III in as much as I would then like to get out at the new Riverwalk connection at Bay St.and then buy you a round at Mark's you are NOT ALLOWED. Instead we will continue to paddle on to a real dead zone.

I feel better now.

Vic, I understand what you are saying about leadership and I have acknowledged that on this thread more than once, but this is not news.  We are all painfully aware of our lack luster leadership and there are many who are working to change that. If we were not, perhaps his "inferred solution" would have meant something, but he is just stating the obvious and the citizens are well aware of this issue.  We can simply agree to disagree about the message being needed or a reinforcement of already established views regarding our shortcomings.  At this point I don't see the repeated dissing of Jacksonville as a solution to anything but rather reinforcing the inclination of some to simply throw up their hands in disgust and give up on our city.  I also don't feel as though commenting on the mans views is "bashing" him.  lol  I guess it's okay for him to "bash" Jacksonville and we are to remain mute if we don't agree, is that it?  ;)  I find nothing in this mans views to thank him for as he is simply repeating the same negative statements others before him have proclaimed.  I am not saying he does not have that right however his views are not a "revelation" and just more negative noise in my opinion.  This has nothing to do with "killing the messenger" as he has not delivered any news, he has just tendered an opinion as I am stating mine.  :)

Vic, I looked for your original post with the three suggestions you said you made and don't see it.  Was it on this thread?
 

^in the midst of a brewing storm, always seek the calm an collected one to keep you on point +100

"Shooting the messages" means someone delivered a message. That didn't happen here. His comments could mean anything- perhaps he means that the leadership should be more effective in creating the downtown environment so many of us want, but perhaps he means they should create an environment like suburban office parks, which is his actual focus. Those comments just disparage downtown without adding any insight. But of course folks are willing to accept any negative comment about downtown as unarguable truth even when there's zero content to it.

I am familiar with someone who attempted to "go downtown", this was someone who had a history of office park turnarounds and he wanted to "go urban".

He made an effort to acquire a downtown property..but the lending environment for downtown Jax was toxic. Many of the lenders in the market didn't want to be exposed to this part of the city. 

I can't speak for the lenders, but they need confidence that a developer can generate the required cash flow to support the project. This maybe why someone like  Mr. Kahn had to help back the Laura Trio project.

So it maybe easy to jump on Mr. Gonzales initially, but his lenders may be reluctant to work with him on downtown projects due to the poor leadership politically.

Lenders want reduced risk. Instead of COJ subsidizing projects to reduce the risk, some firmer civic planning would probably go a long way to help.

Yes, perhaps he has a great point. However we'll never know because he didn't say what it was. Perhaps he's someone who'll never be comfortable investing in the downtown environment.

QuoteThe fact that the city is even considering cutting down the trees and taking out the benches in Hemming Plaza (1) , or letting anyone and everyone build the most suburban designs imaginable in the core(2), and not lifting a finger to preserve historic buildings in the core or Springfield(3)

This is the part of my earlier post (on this thread) that I was referring to, Cheshire Cat.  [ I added the numbering in this post, though]

Basically, if Mr. Gonzales had posted his comment on this website, we would all be in agreement with him, that the leadership sucks.  But because he said it to a reporter, he is to be shunned.  Given the fact that he is a DEVELOPER, he brings credibility to our common refrain, IMO. 

That said, I DO understand that when someone says something negative about the place you live, it brings a reflexive response to  dismiss the commenter.  But  remember, this is his home too.  So he must feel very strongly, to be so candid and negative.

I think it behooves us to weigh his comments on their MERIT, and put aside the 'hurt' that the truth often brings.

I think a follow-up interview is a great idea Stephen.

Quote from: stephendare on June 23, 2013, 02:35:27 PM
perhaps we should do a follow up interview.

Excellent idea.

Not it.

Quote from: vicupstate on June 23, 2013, 04:50:24 PM

QuoteThe fact that the city is even considering cutting down the trees and taking out the benches in Hemming Plaza (1) , or letting anyone and everyone build the most suburban designs imaginable in the core(2), and not lifting a finger to preserve historic buildings in the core or Springfield(3)

This is the part of my earlier post (on this thread) that I was referring to, Cheshire Cat.  [ I added the numbering in this post, though]

Basically, if Mr. Gonzales had posted his comment on this website, we would all be in agreement with him, that the leadership sucks.  But because he said it to a reporter, he is to be shunned.  Given the fact that he is a DEVELOPER, he brings credibility to our common refrain, IMO. 

That said, I DO understand that when someone says something negative about the place you live, it brings a reflexive response to  dismiss the commenter.  But  remember, this is his home too.  So he must feel very strongly, to be so candid and negative.

I think it behooves us to weigh his comments on their MERIT, and put aside the 'hurt' that the truth often brings.

I think a follow-up interview is a great idea Stephen.

Vic you will get no argument from me that the items you listed, tree's, park furniture etc are indeed egregious and this is largely a function of leadership who in turn participates and allows for these types of foolish and destructive ideas and actions.  If I am not mistaken, each and every issue you mentioned has been a topic of considered discussion on this board and at city hall.  These are your insights and not those of the developer quoted in this article however.   :)

Let me assure you had he made the same statement on this forum, I would have had the same response.  Lets not engage in statements that would attempt to claim  Mr. Gonzalez is being "shunned" for his opinions.  Responses to his comments that are not in agreement with them are not tantamount to shunning the man for heaven sakes! lol  Let me also state that my comments are not a result of "hurt" feelings about this particular statement but rather about taking this opportunity to say that continually focusing on what is lacking or wrong in our city is a view out of balance.   Things are not all good but neither are they all bad and this is true for the city and the urban core.  To announce the urban core as being in the "dark ages" is to deny and ignore the positive steps being taken for improvement in the core, as well as the attention and commitment to better things happening downtown like "One Spark", sale of the old library etc!  I really think it is a reach to say on this forum that people are not willing to look at what is holding us back in this city or are sensitive to criticism, in fact the opposite is true.  This forum, its readers and citizens like myself have had a laser focus on what needs to be addressed be it politics, planning, transportation or policy. 

Clearly Mr. Gonzalez is content to develop in the suburbs and let others take the risks downtown as is his choice.  I have always personally held that you don't get to "complain" about something if you are unwilling to do something yourself to change it.  I feel the same way about politics and folks "moaning" about outcomes, many of them not even bothering to vote or campaign for competent, forward thinking political candidates.
Actually it is the inclination to call the core bad without at the same time pointing to any of the positive there that is in my opinion an overworked knee jerk response. In many ways a statement that "shuns" downtown and it's potential. IMO

It would be interesting to know if Gonzales has any ideas or specific suggestions to better our core or to deal with poor leadership.  I know I would be more than willing to listen to those suggestions.  :)

Quote from: vicupstate on June 23, 2013, 04:50:24 PM

QuoteThe fact that the city is even considering cutting down the trees and taking out the benches in Hemming Plaza (1) , or letting anyone and everyone build the most suburban designs imaginable in the core(2), and not lifting a finger to preserve historic buildings in the core or Springfield(3)

This is the part of my earlier post (on this thread) that I was referring to, Cheshire Cat.  [ I added the numbering in this post, though]

Basically, if Mr. Gonzales had posted his comment on this website, we would all be in agreement with him, that the leadership sucks.  But because he said it to a reporter, he is to be shunned.  Given the fact that he is a DEVELOPER, he brings credibility to our common refrain, IMO. 

That said, I DO understand that when someone says something negative about the place you live, it brings a reflexive response to  dismiss the commenter.  But  remember, this is his home too.  So he must feel very strongly, to be so candid and negative.

I think it behooves us to weigh his comments on their MERIT, and put aside the 'hurt' that the truth often brings.

I think a follow-up interview is a great idea Stephen.

Dude, that's exactly the problem. There's no "MERIT" to his comment because he didn't say anything. That statement is nothing but handwaving.

I think for investors they want to see what we talk about with fixed transit over rubber wheels.  A firm set of rules that people can count on, lenders can count on and they know that the next investor can count on. You want to know what is going on and how the area you are investing in will be managed.

Sprawlville investor isn't going downtown he seems irrelevant. I hate that we have wasted time arguing over someone who barely stated the obvious.

People, tough stuff that's hard to hear, but likely true.  Stephen - interview him!

Most people think of developers as exclusively this or that.  Not true, though most do have some sort of focus, whether it's a submarket, region, product, or maybe they are a preferred interest or mezzanine debt only in all their deals and it's more of how they invest.

My own firm is a dream firm for any city like Jax to come in and do something, and people often only think of my firm as owning trophy office buildings and doing great redevelopments of warehouses and street retail.  However, we actually own a suburban lot entitled for multifamily in either southern Duval or northern SJC (Nocatee...we're sitting on it).  Within the firm I have worked on a portfolio of suburban shopping centers in S FL we owned as the LP with Weingarten and I worked on a ground up garden style multifamily deal in the fringes of Cary, NC.  We have an industrial park we are building in Charleston and land deals that are still sitting for master-planned development like you wouldn't believe.

It all comes down to the money.  Everything we have in the SE or as land to be developed is in opportunity funds, of which we have raised 5 in total.  Financing for projects in these funds is different (and we are a great sponsor, so we have some of the best access to the capital markets, whether it's securitized, construction, etc), and these two latest opportunity funds were closed in 2008 at the worst possible time back when more folks were doing more of these (so money raised in '06-'08).  Literally everyone got burned, even in larger markets.  Jax is traditionally one of the top 5 or 10 risky top 50 markets in the country across any and all product types...this is no secret.

Aside from Prudential playing safe with garden style apartments on the SS or Regency going for their 5-6% yield on the newest Publix SC on a fully developed corner on the SS, most folks need a super ridiculous return to justify Jax, especially areas that aren't the core of the SS (i.e. DT or elsewhere).  There simply aren't enough deals or opportunities to make this return in the city for the kinds of developments we want because the job growth isn't happening DT and leadership and public vision is sorely lacking.  It's happening on the SS, allowing the life companies and REITs who do gamble on the market to make their lower stabilized yield and a few developers to make their fees.

Along with everyone else just about, we've gone exclusively core/core plus, which means no development, focus on office/retail, and 70% of everything we buy in terms of asset value has to be in either NYC, Boston, DC or SF.  Many REITs with a similar or lower cost of capital as us and a different platform have gone from doing deals in top 40 or top 50 markets to basically just top 10 or top 20, picking and choosing a few special markets.  Jacksonville simply doesn't have the boxes in general to check to bring the kind of capital from outside of the city (like Austin and Charlotte do).

220 Riverside is an all equity deal.  The major source is MAA out of Memphis, which was just acquired by an Inland REIT entity (or vice versa).  It already has suburban Jax pegged as a target market and it already has like 7 or 13 apartment deals there.  It's a SE focused REIT, along with Colonial.  There aren't many more, especially on the office side (a couple of office REITs will dabble in Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Charlotte, Austin and Dallas, but even these markets aren't typically core enough).

The other source is Hallmark, which is one of the only developers local to Jax with significant credible experience in doing more complex deals such as urban infill, and it has access to capital.

Maybe Khan finds Jax a Tony Giarratana (Nashville's resident big money developer who partners in literally everything - I worked on a deal there where he was a very small partner).  Charlotte has big family name developers who do everything from suburban office to downtown office/mixed-use, and they have access to life company equity and debt, similar to folks in Atlanta.  Jax simply doesn't have these local developers, but unfortunately the chance of seeing one pop up soon aren't great, and remember, Khan himself is not a developer - he probably just wants to find one soon, and he probably realizes he needs to try to work with other local leaders above the noise of elected leaders to get anything done!

It is clear that getting lender financing in downtown Jax is pretty tough....but all its going to take is one major success (perhaps 220 or Barnett Bank) to change that

^^^I can't wait for Hallmark partners to begin discussing 220 during lease-up and after they stabilize it.  So eager to see what numbers they pull in (I hope they're as vocal as Novare and Daniel have been in Atlanta).

Is it the recent economic troubles for the country that cause DT to be a bad investment, developer characters from the cities past (Kuhn comes to mind), or just the general political leadership at this time?  Or a combo of it all?  I'm naive to the properties markets, I see an empty lot that is centrally located in county, utilities already in ground and a clean slate to build upon all = $$$. I had thought the Strand and Peninsula proved that there is a viable market DT.  So, is it just a matter of having to wait for next election and then game is on?

Thanks Stephen.  Well, that does seem logical. It also makes me think that ANY action with the JRTC will have big impact one way or another on which way DT goes. 

As for zoning, wouldn't the obvious answer be that the majority of land in core should be zoned for whatever allows mixed use?  I mean I would think it would anything except for single family homes and and industrial sites.  And I assume it is that developers need to change zoning and city doesn't allow.  That seems foolish. 

Quote from: stephendare on June 23, 2013, 06:25:01 PM
Its more than that though.

Despite the pretty cool events and gimmicks to bring attention to the downtown, there are powerful factors at work that keep it from happening.

Leadership is one of them.  Seriously.  Especially for people looking to invest capital.

Most of the profitable projects that would make downtown hum arent legal.  Look at what Alex Coley has had to go through wtih his project.

Boards of self important 'professionals' are sitting on top of hundreds of acres of vacant properties looking to 'leverage' their worthless land for deals that will never materialize.  At best, the ones that do usually involve obscene amounts of government money subsidizing projects that literally will not work without tax payer cash.  They need to get the hell out of the way and allow a self organizing complex business system model to reassert itself.

And I cannot help but be reminded of Madonna's pretty insightful observation a few years back.

"Now that I got everyone's attention, what do I have to say?"

There isnt any thought or leadership about what downtown is, what it should become, or how best to get there.  The most common answer is that its some kind of piggy bank whose sole reason for being is to squeeze corporations for tax money to be redistributed in Mandarin.

Our leadership is literally too stupid to realize that the downtown depended on a rail to ship connection to create the economic energy that made a city (which is now disconnected), and that its replacement economic model (high rise towers that housed the insurance and banking industry office workers) has disappeared due to computerization, remote workers, and downsizing.

They are more focused on removing amenities and punishing the homeless than they are in creating an environment that makes money or breeds the kind of mindset and skills that creates and drives it, and not one of them has given a moments worth of time to think about what creates a geographical economic unit. (like a downtown, for example).

No thought of what industry to go towards, no idea what kind of educational stimulus to apply in moving us toward that goal, and we are literally tearing down houses faster than new residents can move into the area.

If people can't see that, then they are momentarily distracted by the fun of the events, and not thinking long term, I think.

We need to rezone (thoughtfully) the downtown, restore its attractiveness for trade and workers, think about which direction is the bedrock economy of the city, and stop jumping on every redevelopment project that Professor Henry Higgins can sell us to prevent Trouble (with a capital "T") from the Pool Hall.

When our 'leaders' start talking about how money and people actually work-----doesnt matter which method or direction---then people and investors will take them seriously.

In the meantime, we are going to cut down trees to afflict the homeless in hemming park, watch Jim Love shut down the small business friendly environment of Riverside and San Marco, demolish every unattended house in Springfield, and talk about how a convention center will save downtown.

Absolutely it's much more than that and I think most of us reading and posting here realize that fact.  Certainly there is much to be done at many levels and perhaps that discussion deserves a thread away from this one which began with one developer's remarks saying Jacksonville lives in the "dark ages". In retrospect I am not sure what the intent of the original article was meant to be as it was short on news value. 

I would enjoy further interaction about what can and should be done to change things for the better in Jacksonville in a fair and balanced way.  I think everyone has said all that needs to be said about this article and one developers statements.  I know I have.  :)

I was waiting for simms to jump in here. (and he did)

Hey, don't interview just one, interview a bunch. Ask hard questions. Do a MJ headliner.

Go off record with them if that will get them discussing pitfalls.

Does anyone know if lake met the guy who started fundrise? I remember coming across it when he first announced his inclusion as a vanguard fellow or whatever, and this startup in Washington, D.C. Caught my eye.

You can find more info at fundrise.com, but it's basically a revolutionary way to crowdsource investment funding for developments that citizens of a community want to see happen. I didn't read too much beyond the basic premise, but it seems to have plenty of success stories so far.

Sorry for being lazy and not searching the forums/being more diligent in this post...I'm on a mobile device and just feeling lazy.

One last post, and this will be all I have to say on this topic. 

1) As someone alluded to, Gonzales may have said plenty of things about why he feels the way he does, but the reporter did not necessarily include those.  I've been interviewed by reporters at length, yet only one sentence actually gets printed.  And BTW, if he had said POSITIVE things, those would be the most likely to be left out, from my experience. Controversial comments are what most reporters seek (the Daily record being an exception to that rule).

2) As a local  developer he brings credibility to the very things the posters on here say all the time.  I'm sure many readers of this forum think of us as 'do-gooders/dreamers that don't understand the real world of business'.  But when someone in the development business supports OUR ascertion that the  city leadership is the problem, it makes our complaints seem more legitimate, at least in the view of some people.

3) I have said many times on here that 'leadership' is what is missing.  I always try to shoot down the theory that 'consolidation', 'southern culture/expectations' , 'negative perception of DT' or any other convenient excuse is the culprit.  It is not.  Thinking that  it is anything other than what it truly is (poor leadership leading to bad decisions)  will only delay turning things around.

Well certainly the Jessie Ball duPont Fund, C2C Solutions, and Everbank among others disagrees with Gonzales. Believe me, I'm not trying to say that we have some world class downtown, but it's not like companies haven't recently invested into downtown Jacksonville. You think that we were Dodge City, KS after the sheriff was shot the way Gonzo was talking.

Quote from: ProjectMaximus on June 24, 2013, 01:19:40 AM
Does anyone know if lake met the guy who started fundrise? I remember coming across it when he first announced his inclusion as a vanguard fellow or whatever, and this startup in Washington, D.C. Caught my eye.

You can find more info at fundrise.com, but it's basically a revolutionary way to crowdsource investment funding for developments that citizens of a community want to see happen. I didn't read too much beyond the basic premise, but it seems to have plenty of success stories so far.

Sorry for being lazy and not searching the forums/being more diligent in this post...I'm on a mobile device and just feeling lazy.

Yes, I met him (Daniel Miller).  He's also the co-founder of real estate crowdsourcing website, www.popularise.com.  I'll be spending a week in DC next month.  5 of the 40 Vanguards , from this year, live in DC (including Dan).  I may try and meet with a few.

Quote from: stephendare on June 24, 2013, 10:01:02 AM

Quote from: I-10east on June 24, 2013, 07:09:30 AM
Well certainly the Jessie Ball duPont Fund, C2C Solutions, and Everbank among others disagrees with Gonzales. Believe me, I'm not trying to say that we have some world class downtown, but it's not like companies haven't recently invested into downtown Jacksonville. You think that we were Dodge City, KS after the sheriff was shot the way Gonzo was talking.

I 10.  You do realize that there is a difference between a company relocating into an already built building and an actual real estate developer, right?

shhhh, he's on a roll.