(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/hurston.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/hurston.jpg.html)
from:
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/hurston3.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/hurston3.jpg.html)
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/hurston2.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/hurston2.jpg.html)
So sad.
That's insane! I'm sure most people have no idea of this site's potential historical significance. There's an argument that Hurston was a more nationally prominent figure than H.J. Klutho and many of the founding families of Jacksonville. When I first moved to town, I was disappointed in the omission of the Northside neighborhoods in the Jax Architectural Heritage book. I truly believe we have no idea of the people and stories lurking behind the structures of these neighborhoods. Was this at the owner's request?
I'd like to know how we missed this. This is heartbreaking.
^There's a wealth of information out there (like the source shown above) but it tends to be isolated and not shared or marketed to the general population. It's that way for most of these neighborhoods. The long time locals know and share these stories but there is a disconnect between them and the rest of the city.
That house appears to be 1477 Evergreen Ave. The article says the Hurstons (including Zora) lived at 1663 Evergreen, which looks like an industrial site now. So now both are gone now.
HOW COULD THIS HAVE BEEN DEMOLISHED????????? For shame. I can hardly read the historical article or watch the video without crying.
"People ought to have some regard for helpless things." - Zora Neale Hurston, Their Eyes Were Watching God
probably demolished using federal funds
Quote from: Tacachale on April 19, 2013, 05:33:01 PM
It's exceeding unlikely that that's Hurston's "childhood home" considering she didn't live in Jacksonville as a child. She went to boarding school here at Florida Baptist Academy as a teenager, and later lived here as a young adult. I'm not sure anyone knows all the places she would have lived. Most of them were probably in Sugar Hill and are likely long gone.
That's true. Hurston's connection to Jacksonville is fairly brief. She appears to have lived here for a few years as a teenager and then visited from time to time throughout her life.
Lots of history most of us known nothing about. However, we can learn through threads and conversations like this, which ultimately grow into enough grass roots support to change destructive public policies and positions that have long been in place.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 20, 2013, 06:27:21 AM
Lots of history most of us known nothing about. However, we can learn through threads and conversations like this, which ultimately grow into enough grass roots support to change destructive public policies and positions that have long been in place.
Hi Lake
I don't support destruction of buildings at all. I think it's a real shame that the City seems to follow a policy of demolishing properties as anything other than an absolute last resort.
My comment re Hurston's links to Jacksonville didn't mean to imply that this structure should be demolished or anything like that. It's just that I agree with Tacachale's assessment - Hurston isn't from Jacksonville and has a minor connection to the city (though that doesn't mean we shouldn't be proud of that connection or celebrate it).
I cannot comment on any of the other comments that were posted after my response to Tacachale, as I have blocked that user and cannot view what was posted.
Adam W, oh no problem with me. My comment was mentioned as an "in general" outlook on the unknown history of many of Jacksonville's older black neighborhoods. Outside of Sheclown's post, literally no one here in our crowd would have known the connection of that building with such a national figure. It had a stronger connection to Hurston than the skeletal Genovar's Hall had to Ray Charles or the Seminole Club to Teddy Roosevelt and JFK. I wonder how many more out there that are quietly being overlooked have similar stories to tell?
Quote from: thelakelander on April 20, 2013, 07:32:22 AM
Adam W, oh no problem with me. My comment was mentioned as an "in general" outlook on the unknown history of many of Jacksonville's older black neighborhoods. Outside of Sheclown's post, literally no one here in our crowd would have known the connection of that building with such a national figure. It had a stronger connection to Hurston than the skeletal Genovar's Hall had to Ray Charles or the Seminole Club to Teddy Roosevelt and JFK. I wonder how many more out there that are quietly being overlooked have similar stories to tell?
And the ones that don't have a particularly important 'historical' connection still are important to the neighborhoods and to the city in general. You figure that this is basically our history and we're destroying it - soon we'll only be left with the stories because the physical locations where those stories took place will all be gone. And that's really, really sad.
Quote from: Adam W on April 20, 2013, 07:37:40 AM
And the ones that don't have a particularly important 'historical' connection still are important to the neighborhoods and to the city in general. You figure that this is basically our history and we're destroying it - soon we'll only be left with the stories because the physical locations where those stories took place will all be gone. And that's really, really sad.
I assume you're referring to the importance of the makeup of what Jacksonville has become today and not on Hurston and this particular neighborhood of Jax? Jacksonville's influence on Hurston maybe more stronger than we've given ourselves credit for. She came her at the age of 13 and left when she was in her mid 20s. It would be hard to imagine that decade in Jax not being highly influential on the woman she became.
QuoteBut when her mother died when Hurston was 13, her world was forever changed. Her father hastily remarried, and Hurston and the new bride violently quarreled. Hurston was sent to boarding school in Jacksonville, Florida. She was soon expelled, and had to make ends meet by becoming a maid to a singer with the travelling Gilbert & Sullivan show. Eventually she wound up in Baltimore, where, at age 26, she resumed her high school education.
http://www.legacy.com/ns/news-story.aspx?t=zora-neale-hurston-genius-of-the-south&id=211
On top of that, despite moving to New York and becoming a key figure in the 1920s Harlem Renaissance, she still ended up marrying someone from Jacksonville in 1939. That strongly suggests she was probably in and out of here on a regular basis over for the majority of her life.
QuoteZora Neale Hurston moved to Jacksonville two weeks after her mother's death on September 18, 1904. She joined her sister Sara and brother Bob, who were attending school at Florida Baptist Academy. Her oldest brother, John Cornelius also lived and worked in the city. Life was difficult for Hurston during the period that she resided in Jacksonville. Not only did her father refuse to pay for her schooling but he asked her school to adopt her. By late 1905, she was out of school and had to make a living on her own or depend on her siblings for housing and food. Few records exist concerning Hurston's life from 1905â€"14, but she was probably residing off and on with her brothers, Robert and John in Jacksonville. In Jacksonville, for the first time, she encountered racism, which, in her words, "made me know that I was a little colored girl." Ironically, on June 27, 1939, Hurston married Albert Price, III, a member of Jacksonville's black Sugar Hill society. They filed for divorce on November 9, 1943
http://chdr.cah.ucf.edu/hurstonarchive/?p=communities
I'm not an expert on her life in Jax but it could be inaccurate to say it wasn't important in some form or fashion.
QuoteIn Jacksonville, for the first time, she encountered racism, which, in her words, "made me know that I was a little colored girl.
And yesterday we tore down the flower shop.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 19, 2013, 07:05:59 PM
That house appears to be 1477 Evergreen Ave. The article says the Hurstons (including Zora) lived at 1663 Evergreen, which looks like an industrial site now. So now both are gone now.
Your comment is highly interesting. What would be the 1600 block of Evergreen today has always been industrial. This particular subdivision never extended north of the old ACL tracks (now CSX). So after reading this, I immediately had a feeling the block addresses were changed at some point in time. Checking the 1913 Sanborn map of this neighborhood this appears to be true.
(http://sanborn.umi.com/sanborn/image/fetchimage?state=fl&reelid=reel04&lcid=1286&imagename=00360&width=1139&CCSI=&crop=1,222-925,921)
(http://sanborn.umi.com/sanborn/image/fetchimage?state=fl&reelid=reel04&lcid=1286&imagename=00360&width=3416&CCSI=&crop=3,1646-927,2345)
What is 5th Street today, was originally Lorne Street and 4th was Argyle Street. In 1913, the 1600 block of Evergreen was between Lorne and Argyle Streets. Today, this is the 1400 block of Evergreen. In short 1913's 1633 Evergreen is 2013's 1431 Evergreen. This residence is owned by the Robert Dobson Estate. Property appraiser records claim this structure was built in 1919. I'm still digging to solidify my belief but 1431 Evergreen is definitely 1633 Evergreen of yesteryear. This 1951 Sanborn map below shows the new address and the old address:
(http://sanborn.umi.com/sanborn/image/fetchimage?state=fl&reelid=reel05&lcid=1286&imagename=00437&width=3420&CCSI=&crop=1,1552-925,2251)
This will call for a trip to the public library or Jax Historical Society's Archives to verify but I suspect if the 1633 address is correct, the home Zora Neale Hurston grew up in on Evergreen may still be standing. The easy thing to do is check city public directories between 1903 (the year she arrived in Jax) and 1914 or so see which Evergreen address checks out to be her brother, John Hurston, Jr.
Below, the site of 1913's 1633 Evergreen today. If the address in the book mentioned in Sheclown's post is correct, then this is the house that Zora Neale Hurston lived in during her stay in Jacksonville:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-m6kSPBN/0/M/Zora%20Neale%20Hurston%20House-M.jpg)
Just goes to show how much we don't know about the history of these neighborhoods and the unknown importance of what code enforcement randomly demolishes at will around the Northside.
And it needs to be landmarked IMMEDIATELY.
^The last photo is from Google Earth Streetview. I have a historical society board meeting on Monday. I'll stop by the archives then and verify if 1633 Evergreen was John Hurston's actual address in 1903.
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/hurston-1.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/hurston-1.jpg.html)
This house directly next door is most likely significant as well.
I have a feeling several structures in this neighborhood have high historical significance. The Eastside was just was vibrant as LaVilla. We've completely destroyed LaVilla but most of the Eastside is still intact. The same goes for Durkeeville. I need to get a copy of the book you posted in the first post of this thread. I met the author at one of my book signings last fall but she didn't have any copies on her at the time.
Lake it would be great news if that's the house. I'll do what I can to find out. It's also unlikely to be the only place she lived in Jacksonville considering she was in and out of the city. Wouldn't it be great to find multiple of them? We could have something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Neale_Hurston_House) or this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Allan_Poe_Cottage).
We need a push to landmark important structures in the city. Now with the mothballing ordinance, we can protect at risk structures.
Just to add another chunk of coal to the fire, yes Lake, the addresses all through that area were changed. I ran into the same thing with tracing the streetcar line from North Main to the old Horse Track near Gateway Mall. The numbered streets around and behind Andrew Jackson have been shifted and many names changed.
Topic: Zora Neale Hurston. Recordings, work here in Jacksonville
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=5777.0
Quote from: sheclown on April 20, 2013, 09:45:48 AM
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/hurston-1.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/hurston-1.jpg.html)
This house directly next door is most likely significant as well.
I stopped briefly by the library today. The house in this photo was the home Zora Neale Hurston lived in at times, when in Jacksonville. It was her older brother, John Cornelius Hurston, Jr's house. John came to Jacksonville after a fallout with their dad around 1908/09 and initially lived a 808-810 Market Street (between State & Union), which is a parking lot today. He quickly worked his way up to being a manager at the Charles Anderson Fish & Osyter House at 1127 Florida Avenue in the Eastside, moving to this residence somewhere around 1911. Before then, the house was occupied by Joseph and Minnie Watt. After living with her older brother Bob, a short time in Tennessee, she moved to this house in 1914, at the age of 23.
QuoteZora had grown from the sassy, strong-willed girl Bob (her older brother) once knew into an independent-minded young woman, and she chafed at her brother's efforts to govern her. Her is an interesting look into her life at this time:
Soon, she fled. By 1914, Zora was back in Jacksonville, living with her brother John Cornelius and his wife, Blanche, at 1663 Evergreen Avenue. That year she was listed, along with the couple, in the directory of Bethel Baptist Institutional Church - the same church at which the Florida Baptist Academy, her former school, had been founded. Zora had journeyed to Jacksonville not just to elude Bob's authority but also with the hope of returning to the academy and finishing high school.
This was not to be. Yet what happened next is the most mysterious gap in the narrative of Hurston's life.
From the time she was a little girl, dogged by clairvoyant visions of her future, Zora knew that (in her words) "a house, a shot-gun built house that needed a new coat of white paint, held torture for me, but I must go. I saw deep love betrayed, but I must feel and know it. There was no turning back.
From Wrapped in Rainbows: The Life of Zora Neale Hurston by Valerie Boyd
So they lived in the flower shop house? That article made it sound like they were two different buildings.
They lived in the shotgun house (still standing) next door. Blanche Hurston's flower shop (the demolished building) was later constructed next door to it. Regarding the quote from the Hurston book, the shotgun could have been someplace else or just a play on words from challenges she may have had to overcome within a shotgun house. The book's author seemed to be unclear and just said it must have been someplace between Jacksonville and Tennessee.
Ahh okay. Let's save that thing!
Quote from: Tacachale on April 22, 2013, 05:15:16 PM
Ahh okay. Let's save that thing!
Agree! This building needs to be saved and restored.
Hooray!!!
What great research Ennis.
Joel is bringing this to the HPC.
Gloria, do you have a feel for those on the current council that you think may be supporters of preservation?
Ennis, this would be a great topic for an article. I have some background material for Hurston and I'd be happy to help with that. Though so far as I know it doesn't have anything on specific houses, especially if the street numbers have changed.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 22, 2013, 06:23:52 PM
Gloria, do you have a feel for those on the current council that you think may be supporters of preservation?
Lumb is the first to come to mind. He helped stop the demolition of houses in Springfield
Quote from: Tacachale on April 22, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
Ennis, this would be a great topic for an article. I have some background material for Hurston and I'd be happy to help with that. Though so far as I know it doesn't have anything on specific houses, especially if the street numbers have changed.
^Yes, it would. I'm just waiting for the next HPC meeting to hear what Joel has to say.
Quote from: sheclown on April 22, 2013, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 22, 2013, 06:23:52 PM
Gloria, do you have a feel for those on the current council that you think may be supporters of preservation?
Lumb is the first to come to mind. He helped stop the demolition of houses in Springfield
It appears someone is still living in this house. Is it in danger of being demolished?
The question is WHY was the flower shop demolished? Owner request? MCCD? Why and by who? I requested the case recap from Code. The report will provide some answers.
That said, BIG problem.
The flower shop WAS owned by a church "7th Calvalry" who lost it to taxes. The LLC that bought from Duval County is "Tax Certificates Redemptions Inc." out of Miami, they have NOT paid any property taxes since acquiring the shop 6 years ago. They own 48 properties, some empty lots, others houses all aquired 2007/2008. On quick search, they have back taxes and multiple liens on their properties. The properties are scattered throughout the urban core.
They appear to be like Tarpon: a ruse that is a cancer.
With all do respect, I remember this place from years ago. Was a very nice place. Have to ask can anyone downtown maintain thier property. Seems to be a trend here.
The answer to this problem is one that we all know.
The city takes neglected and abandoned properties.
Of course, the problem with this is that the city neglects and abandons its own properties.
The citizens need to get involved in this process, make sure the council people they elect share their desire for a vibrant urban core and then support ordinances which make funding available.
The street numbers changed (just like Springfield). The house next door to the flower shop is the house that John C Hurston and his wife lived for many years. The flower shop was next door. Their home is still standing. The original address was 1663. It is in fact now addressed as 1473 Evergreen Ave and it is still a lived in and apparently loved home.
At hpc now. Te commissioners have instructed the historic planners to investigate this as a possible landmark
Thanks sheclown. That thing should be a landmark if anything is.
Hallejuah!
Great news. I see this happening. Thanks for the update Gloria.
Quote from: sheclown on April 23, 2013, 10:58:46 AM
The street numbers changed (just like Springfield).
The same goes for Durkeeville. It appears that all the east/west streets north of downtown were changed to a numbered system around the same time. It just happens that all the different subdivision plats over the city's early years were grid based, making such a uniform conversion possible.
On May 22, 2013, the HPC determined the staff application for landmark status for the remaining structure was complete and ready to move forward on its journey toward landmark status. It is given to city council to make the final determination.
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/flowershop.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/flowershop.jpg.html)
The residence at 1473 Evergreen Avenue has significance for its association with Zora Neale Hurston. The building was the domicile of the brother and sister-in-law of Hurston and it has been documented that she resided there on and off over several years between 1920 and 1940.from the application documentation.
It appears that the city used NSP1 funds to demolish the flower shop. account ERCC011CP-04923-NSP006-09995.
The project number NSP006 corresponds with the NSP1 grant Demolition/Clearance activity.
Quote from: m74reeves on September 04, 2013, 12:03:36 AM
It appears that the city used NSP1 funds to demolish the flower shop. account ERCC011CP-04923-NSP006-09995.
The project number NSP006 corresponds with the NSP1 grant Demolition/Clearance activity.
So very sad. Irreplaceable.
Maybe Jacksonville shouldn't get stabilization money if it isn't responsible enough to use it correctly.