Tonight I had dinner at La Cena. Marlene the waitress mentioned that Jerry had been looking at places to relocate. Jerry had mentioned the idea of moving out of the core over the past year or two, but I thought he was just bitching.
During my six years of being in the core, I have also heard Jerry say that he liked the core because it was more interesting than the typical suburban environment. And I think Jerry really wants to engage the process of bringing vibrancy to the core. It seems easier to survive in a big mall, a strip mall, or a stand-alone in the suburbs. But its borng!
Although I've not talked with him directly about his plans, I assume now that he is actually looking for another place to move his restaurant. This would be a great loss to the downtown core simply because I doubt if anyone else will jump into his space any time soon.
My occasional meals at La Cena have allowed me to conclude that he does a good business. He has a clientele which likes the quiet, no-kid atmosphere, and the fresh made pasta and bread, and the Italian cuisine. He does seem to strive for quality in wines, coffees etc. And he does get some high-end customers in general, and individuals such as corporate heads, and people like Governor Scott, who visited a few weeks ago.
In any case, it would be a shame to lose one of the most enduring businesses in the city core, one of the few not on the Bay Street scene which stays open in the evenings, and one of the few which has been strong enough to weather the sometimes difficult encounters with the homeless element.
Although the homeless and transient problem is not catastrophic in the core, it is enough of a problem to cause headaches, and the use of valuable time and resources, such as cameras, efforts to encounter them, and even personal escorts to customer autos in the evenings to insure safety.
To digress, early Saturday morning, a homeless fellow, who happens to be nuts, and whom I banned from my place because he smelled and was a nuisance to my customers, trashed my patio very early Saturday morning by throwing onto the floor near the door, about a three pound pile of feces, presumably human. Flies were all over the place. He also threw piles of trash, food, cigarette butts, and general garbage all over the patio floor, and placed bags upon the iron bars in the front. Last Sunday morning, I found that he had unloaded all of the trash in my two trash cans, and the eight bags of garbage on the ground, into someones pickup truck in front of my place. Jerry's camera has his activity on video, and I've set up a recording camera recently so that we can get good evidence to stop this nut. It took me about thirty minutes to unload the garbage from the truck. But it took us over an hour to clean up the shit and garbage from the patio floor. We cleaned and mopped. It was fun. But I would have preferred reading the NYT while enjoying an espresso.
The issue with the homeless, the vagrants, and just about anybody who seems to have no place to go, is a problem in the city core. And if the library was to ever permanently close on any day, therefore not having bathrooms for the vagrants and homeless, we would simply have to lock our bathrooms and issue a key only to those who purchase something from us. We actually do that on occasions, when the influx of homeless is overwhelming.
I can assure you that these homeless people, some of them, will trash the hell out of a bathroom, to the degree that if we did not control their use, we would probably have to exit the city too, simply because of the work force required to clean them. Some of these individuals behave like beasts, which I suppose is one reason they are jobless, and therefore homeless.
So, even though many of us have been somewhat isolated from the disruptive activities of these people because we might not be downtown all of the time, especially during the late evening, and in the middle of the night, we might engage the idea that Moran's aggressiveness against the homeless is more warranted than we might have thought. I know that I have occasionally thought of Moran's behavior against the homeless as being too aggressive, and perhaps unreasonable. Admittedly, perhaps in some cases he has taken actions many of us would have avoided, but I've come to realize that he has been on the frontline, often engaging the "elements" alone, sometimes desperate, and has been forced to take creative defensive actions on occasion in order to improve the environment for his customers. The homeless and vagrancy problem is ongoing, and it is not going away anytime soon unless there are radical efforts made by the city to force real solutions, whatever they might be.
So, I for one, and perhaps selfishly, as I need neighbors in the core, hope that Moran decides to wait out the hoped for epoch when the downtown core will have achieved the long sought vibrancy, wherein all of us will have thriving business neighbors instead of empty buildings. If Jerry exits the core, my business will be the only one on Laura Street opened on the weekends, and on Wednesday night. Thank goodness we have the library as a neighbor.
Because of the seemingly increased vagrancy problem, I'm having to become more aggressive in confronting these individuals who must be kept at a distance from my customers, customers who expect me to insure that they are not panhandled on my premises, nor even on the sidewalk in front of my business. Its almost as if our businesses are refuges, to which people can escape from the unfortunate elements in the city core. Although some of the vagrants are obviously nuts, which is unfortunate, they are also on occasion comical, and therefore are on occasion tolerated, as if we are in a zoo. Some of these interesting individuals can be observed much like we observe the monkeys in the zoo. We have the Jacksonville Zoo, and the Inner City Zoo, both requiring upkeep and attention to the animals within.
I hope that Moran decides to stay, and endure the occasional problems in the core.
Good read, enjoyed it very much. What is the city's policy regarding homeless?
http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2012-10-02/story/atlanta-council-passes-second-aggressive-panhandling-ordinance
Some of you would know better than I do (esp those w businesses in the core), but I've been to your business Ron about 30 times over the years & have hardly heard a peep from the homeless. In my experience, 5 Points takes the cake for that (around the park & Starbucks).
While I think Moran is a inhumane jerk, it would be a shame to see him his business leave the core.
I work with the Downtown homeless on a daily basis.
There are all "types", of course, but the individuals who are disruptive and repel visitors by their actions/appearance are chronically homeless with significant mental issues, almost as a rule. Other issues may be involved too (ie, substance abuse), but mental health issues are extremely difficult to manage.
Until (a) Downtown becomes filled with businesses & residents and this has the $ and human resources to organically resolve these issues, or (b) COJ leadership gets serious about addressing these issues, I'm afraid nothing will change.
In general, the chronically homeless with mental health issues will linger around where they can get food, shelter, and other assistance. Downtown Jacksonville is the hub for these homeless services in all of Northeast Florida & Southeast Georgia. Other counties send their homeless to Downtown Jax regularly - their communities aren't often eager to have the issues that come with providing these services.
It's a complicated issue. : )
Whatever happened to the day center Brown said would be opened before the end of year?
Quote from: ben says on October 07, 2012, 10:11:44 AM
While I think Moran is a inhumane jerk, it would be a shame to see him his business leave the core.
That wasn't called for. The man donated a new refrigerator as I recall to a person. I'm a small business and as much as I want to do something Downtown until I feel that the legislative policies are in place I won't and I won't blame anyone for a second not choosing to do so either.
Has anyone else been by to look at the Demolition of 601 East Church St? That 1915 Historic Building stock that can be added to the list of what is or is not considered important. its at the Corner of Catherine and Church next to Hogans Creek that everyone cares about. That Burcholder wrecking rig looks familiar.
Pick and choose the winners and losers.
Ben, name calling not needed here. You're bigger than that.
Until any of you have personally had to deal with this type of behavior (such as described by Ron) you/we don't know how you would react. If it happened multiple times no doubt you get angrier.
Totally agree this is mental health care issue. No easy solution.
But you get less tolerant when it is you that is cleaning up feces outside your business.
Thanks all, for considering my post. I hope the following addresses most comments.
In the early days of my being downtown, it was my character or my inclination to be overly accommodating and kind to all of the homeless, a position which would drive Jerry mad. But I am now by necessity being more realistic, and perhaps more selective as to whom my kindness is offered.
I feel sorry for anyone who is without a place to sleep, or a place to go during the day, such as to a job, or a home. And therefore, I’ve been slow to confront individuals with the solid abruptness as is Jerry’s habit. Perhaps his habit has been forged because he’s been around the core longer than me, but perhaps also because of a difference in his outlook upon the unfortunate. He seems to avoid expending mental energy contemplating the fundamental causes of their plight, and therefore has much less patience than me.
The individual whom I banned, the fellow who left the gift of fly covered human feces on the patio, is a borderline problem, because he attempts to control his sometimes offensive behavior. I’ll have to admit that if I had used more caution, instead of losing my temper with him, the situation might not have evolved to one of full confrontation. I could have more calmly explained to him the problem with his unacceptable behavioral drift over the weeks, and he might have had the sense to change it for the better.
I’ve discovered that although my first wish is to be kind to these individuals, I must tender my kindness cautiously, as they will run all over me, my business, and my customers. It’s like attempting to talk logically to a two year old. One must have the time to engage them. I barely have time to run my business. And besides, I’ve already raised three kids.
Overall, I sense that the homeless and vagrancy problem downtown has stabilized, but perhaps our business has been having more problems because word has for too long circulated that we are more tolerant on allowing individuals to hang out in our patio for several hours, for a day, even though they might buy nothing, or only a token coffee. We have a sign stating that the limit for hanging out in our café is three hours. My intention is to begin enforcing the limit in most cases, as our former liberal policy to “all†has allowed certain elements to camp out on the patio every day, with the result that the tables and chairs are not available to the casual outsider, such as an “innocentâ€, visiting the core for the first time.
But yes, the city has legislation prohibiting panhandling at or near a business. It is up to us to enforce it by direct confrontation, or by seeking police assistance.
I suspect that the city core is not much worse than some other parts of the city, and that most other cities have the same problems. Its ongoing, and perhaps can only get better after some of the plans at solution, such as a center outside of the city core, is actually carried to completion. I suspect too that a greatly improved economy might provide jobs for some of these unfortunates, and therefore homes, and take them off the streets.
IMO, Jerry gets in the way of his own success downtown.
He fights ArtWalk, instead of embracing it. In doing this alienates the 20, 30, 40 somethings that have never heard of his restaurant but are right outside his door. Meanwhile, every other vendor is packed. Can't put together an ArtWalk special? Come on, man.
His food is highly regarded, but the portions and the price are enormous and the rules that surround his menu are bizarre ($18 split plate charge? Enjoy that app as an entree? $11 up charge.).
I want to eat there more often, but I don't need a chicken parm the size of my plate and I can't share it with my wife without it costing $40.
Reasonable sized portions, reasonable pricing and maybe put an iPod playlist together (that one CD got old on my last visit...over and over and over...). I'd be there every week.
As for the homeless, I didn't realize we had a problem... ::)
Quote from: RockStar on October 07, 2012, 12:03:56 PM
IMO, Jerry gets in the way of his own success downtown.
He fights ArtWalk, instead of embracing it. In doing this alienates the 20, 30, 40 somethings that have never heard of his restaurant but are right outside his door. Meanwhile, every other vendor is packed. Can't put together an ArtWalk special? Come on, man.
His food is highly regarded, but the portions and the price are enormous and the rules that surround his menu are bizarre ($18 split plate charge? Enjoy that app as an entree? $11 up charge.).
I want to eat there more often, but I don't need a chicken parm the size of my plate and I can't share it with my wife without it costing $40.
Reasonable sized portions, reasonable pricing and maybe put an iPod playlist together (that one CD got old on my last visit...over and over and over...). I'd be there every week.
As for the homeless, I didn't realize we had a problem... ::)
+1
Quote from: Noone on October 07, 2012, 11:02:36 AM
Quote from: ben says on October 07, 2012, 10:11:44 AM
While I think Moran is a inhumane jerk, it would be a shame to see him his business leave the core.
That wasn't called for.
Let's not be dramatic here...it's not like I'm maligning the dead. Let's just say I: (a) have had more than one bad experience at the place, (b) have heard other horror stories along those lines and, (c) don't like his mentality towards the less fortunate.
Quote from: ronchamblin on October 07, 2012, 11:45:53 AM
And therefore, I’ve been slow to confront individuals with the solid abruptness as is Jerry’s habit. Perhaps his habit has been forged because he’s been around the core longer than me, but perhaps also because of a difference in his outlook upon the unfortunate. He seems to avoid expending mental energy contemplating the fundamental causes of their plight, and therefore has much less patience than me.
^This was more what I meant, stated more eloquently.
while i can understand his frustration, his responses to to it are way out ov line, and his posts here have made it quite clear that he's a terrible human beïng. i'll be glad to see him go.
I've heard the food is amazing, but that's all I've heard. My parents have eaten there a couple times, but it's not a place they even bring up as an option. At some point you need to grow or change your business to keep up with times. I heard a horror story that happened to another family at his restaurant, the function of the restaurant/staff. No need to call it out, but at some point for those who have even heard of the restaurant in the first place the stories add up and overshadow the quality of the food.
Quote from: RockStar on October 07, 2012, 12:03:56 PM
IMO, Jerry gets in the way of his own success downtown.
He fights ArtWalk, instead of embracing it. In doing this alienates the 20, 30, 40 somethings that have never heard of his restaurant but are right outside his door. Meanwhile, every other vendor is packed. Can't put together an ArtWalk special? Come on, man.
His food is highly regarded, but the portions and the price are enormous and the rules that surround his menu are bizarre ($18 split plate charge? Enjoy that app as an entree? $11 up charge.).
I want to eat there more often, but I don't need a chicken parm the size of my plate and I can't share it with my wife without it costing $40.
Reasonable sized portions, reasonable pricing and maybe put an iPod playlist together (that one CD got old on my last visit...over and over and over...). I'd be there every week.
As for the homeless, I didn't realize we had a problem... ::)
Ok, wow. If this were a review of the restaurant on UrbanSpoon or Yelp or Gayot, I would avoid it like the plague.
Quote from: simms3 on October 08, 2012, 11:25:42 AM
I've heard the food is amazing, but that's all I've heard. My parents have eaten there a couple times, but it's not a place they even bring up as an option. At some point you need to grow or change your business to keep up with times. I heard a horror story that happened to another family at his restaurant, the function of the restaurant/staff. No need to call it out, but at some point for those who have even heard of the restaurant in the first place the stories add up and overshadow the quality of the food.
Quote from: RockStar on October 07, 2012, 12:03:56 PM
IMO, Jerry gets in the way of his own success downtown.
He fights ArtWalk, instead of embracing it. In doing this alienates the 20, 30, 40 somethings that have never heard of his restaurant but are right outside his door. Meanwhile, every other vendor is packed. Can't put together an ArtWalk special? Come on, man.
His food is highly regarded, but the portions and the price are enormous and the rules that surround his menu are bizarre ($18 split plate charge? Enjoy that app as an entree? $11 up charge.).
I want to eat there more often, but I don't need a chicken parm the size of my plate and I can't share it with my wife without it costing $40.
Reasonable sized portions, reasonable pricing and maybe put an iPod playlist together (that one CD got old on my last visit...over and over and over...). I'd be there every week.
As for the homeless, I didn't realize we had a problem... ::)
Ok, wow. If this were a review of the restaurant on UrbanSpoon or Yelp or Gayot, I would avoid it like the plague.
If this was a review on Yelp they would say their "filter" would find this review to be a questionable review and it would be removed most of the time.
Since you two brought up Yelp, one of my "horror stories" of Jerry was after a really awful and expensive night at his restaurant, my girlfriend wrote a Yelp review that said, simply, and I'm paraphrasing here: "too expensive considering my pasta was overcooked". The day after, he started making snide commends that we "didn't know what we were talking about," both on MetroJax and on Yelp. Nasty stuff.
Admittedly Jerry is a little misanthropic, perhaps a little too often, and is somewhat hard on the homeless, but his place provides a unique quality to the restaurant choices in the city core, providing a quiet and special place for an excellent dinner, and with pleasant music.
Perhaps he might see everyone’s posts, digest the comments, and change things so that fewer of the negative comments will be appropriate in the future. If change does occur, then perhaps there is a little hope for those who have expressed their negative experiences at La Cena, or about his behavior.
And too, perhaps Jerry is doing better than we think, that he is satisfied with how he presents himself to his customers, and to the local homeless element. The question is whether or not there will be enough customers in the future who like his locale, ambience, and prices. As for food quality, I suspect that it is excellent 98% of the time.
In any case, I hope things work through so that we do not lose a good restaurant right in the middle of our city core. Any exit from the core is a negative for the downtown. We certainly don’t want to lose businesses, and regress back to the desolation on the Laura Street of a few years ago.
Ron,
I'm really sorry to hear about the recent vandalism. When I was in town a few weeks ago it really felt great to visit both bookstores and to see and hear how well you're doing. You run your business in a way that makes me happy to be a patron.
Regarding some of the other comments. It is interesting that someone can write "his posts here have made it quite clear that he's a terrible human being" without relying on personal experience. I'd be willing to guess that the other gentleman who called Jerry an "inhumane jerk" probably isn't speaking from personal experience either. The first consideration is that Jerry Moran has successfully run upscale restaurants for years. As Stephen Dare can certainly attest to - running a restaurant is a difficult work. Jerry has obviously poured a lot of hard work into making La Cena successful in downtown Jacksonville. We all react differently to various situations but doesn't it make sense that Jerry would take things personally? Isn't that a very human thing to feel? Would Jerry have been able to survive if he weren't such a fighter? He fights for himself and I have also personally known him to fight for other people in ways that many of his critics would likely find admirable. Nobody's perfect but Jerry Moran is a good man.
I have also eaten many meals at La Cena and each was consistently excellent. It has been far too long since I have last been able to visit. It isn't cheap but what worthwhile upscale restaurant is? It is better to eat out once a month and have a great meal at La Cena than eat restaurant food of lesser quality more frequently. In fact I am salivating just thinking about that beautiful Trenette with smoked trout.
Sincerely,
Parag
Quote from: ronchamblin on October 08, 2012, 08:42:45 PM
In any case, I hope things work through so that we do not lose a good restaurant right in the middle of our city core. Any exit from the core is a negative for the downtown. We certainly don’t want to lose businesses, and regress back to the desolation on the Laura Street of a few years ago.
Couldn't agree more
Quote from: Parag Adhyaru on October 08, 2012, 08:59:30 PM
I'd be willing to guess that the other gentleman who called Jerry an "inhumane jerk" probably isn't speaking from personal experience either.
I was speaking from personal experience...but that's neither here nor there. Not to mention: what he says on MetroJax is a representation of him, nothing more nothing less. It's normal for people to see what he writes and comes to the conclusions they do.
Quote from: stephendare on October 09, 2012, 09:12:37 AM
I cant decide if its making him miserable or keeping an active mind engaged, but maybe san marco would be greatly improved by a quality italian restaurant.
Good point ;)
Quote from: Parag Adhyaru on October 08, 2012, 08:59:30 PM
It is better to eat out once a month and have a great meal at La Cena than eat restaurant food of lesser quality more frequently.
That's not really how it works. You can have a guest once a month for a $100 (plus grat) dinner (special night out) or 3 or 4 times a month @ $50. It's better to have frequency of visit than a once a month fleecing.
I'd also offer delivery service to the downtown apartments/condos...not sure if he does that.
Stephen,
Jerry has certainly made his strong opinions on the homeless into his public persona. What is less of a matter of public record are the things you say below. I am not seeking to glorify Jerry or his positions, just to simply say that the man is more dynamic than many people think.
Quote from: stephendare on October 09, 2012, 09:12:37 AM
In most respects he is a good mensch and the kind of guy who would take a bullet for his friends.
I would vouch for him on any of the good things, like hard work, industriousness, character, intelligence, humor, and integrity.
My view is that clearly private property rights need to be protected while not trampling the natural rights that every person has. If someone, homeless or not, vandalizes property then they should be prosecuted. In the process there should be enough time to determine if someone is suffering mental illness or if they're just a vandal. As Bill Hoff wrote earlier in this thread, it is a complex issue, and I won't pretend to understand all the facets. Still, some people do earn jail time and others need help. The first part of that should be easy, but the second part is far easier to say than to do.
Regarding RockStar's comments: It is subjective but at this point in my life I would rather not insult my own ability to cook which is how I would feel if I had to make a choice between more restaurant experiences versus fewer with quality being the trade off. I'm very tightfisted with my money and I don't feel fleeced when I spend money at La Cena because so much is made in house.
And if we're talking about delivery - I'd rather that the upscale restaurants not do this. After all isn't the point to increase the activity downtown? Plenty of pizza places deliver.
Sincerely,
Parag
Tell him to open a 200 seat restaurant in Avondale and enjoy the fireworks.
^Monty's La Cena?
Quote from: thelakelander on October 09, 2012, 03:04:35 PM
Tell him to open a 200 seat restaurant in Avondale and enjoy the fireworks.
i have so much love for this.
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on October 08, 2012, 12:52:02 PM
Quote from: simms3 on October 08, 2012, 11:25:42 AM
I've heard the food is amazing, but that's all I've heard. My parents have eaten there a couple times, but it's not a place they even bring up as an option. At some point you need to grow or change your business to keep up with times. I heard a horror story that happened to another family at his restaurant, the function of the restaurant/staff. No need to call it out, but at some point for those who have even heard of the restaurant in the first place the stories add up and overshadow the quality of the food.
Quote from: RockStar on October 07, 2012, 12:03:56 PM
IMO, Jerry gets in the way of his own success downtown.
He fights ArtWalk, instead of embracing it. In doing this alienates the 20, 30, 40 somethings that have never heard of his restaurant but are right outside his door. Meanwhile, every other vendor is packed. Can't put together an ArtWalk special? Come on, man.
His food is highly regarded, but the portions and the price are enormous and the rules that surround his menu are bizarre ($18 split plate charge? Enjoy that app as an entree? $11 up charge.).
I want to eat there more often, but I don't need a chicken parm the size of my plate and I can't share it with my wife without it costing $40.
Reasonable sized portions, reasonable pricing and maybe put an iPod playlist together (that one CD got old on my last visit...over and over and over...). I'd be there every week.
As for the homeless, I didn't realize we had a problem... ::)
Ok, wow. If this were a review of the restaurant on UrbanSpoon or Yelp or Gayot, I would avoid it like the plague.
If this was a review on Yelp they would say their "filter" would find this review to be a questionable review and it would be removed most of the time.
Actually, RockStar's assessment is spot on. I would say I don't get the point of your post here, but that's assuming you are trying to make a point, and I don't want to assume.
Ron, don't you talk about how Magnificat does not adequately use the space they have? How is La Cena any different? They're open five days a week for dinner only. As RockStar illustrates above, his approach to the costumer is horrible. The food is decent, but certainly not worth the money or menu idiocy that you have to deal with. Forget about Jerry Moran as a person, La Cena is a decent restaurant masquerading as a magnificent restaurant. I'm all for businesses downtown, particularly yours Ron, but I have no problem seeing this one go. Someday, something better may go in there. Its an incredibly cool space in a fantastic location.
If he did actually exploit the ArtWalk crowd, and tried to attract people to the space to spend money instead of striving for 'exclusivity' or whatever his aim, he'd be too busy counting his money to notice any homeless downtown.
Looks like many of the bases have been covered regarding Jerry and La Cena. Although I’ve not seen Jerry since the start of this thread, I’m sure he’s read the posts. And what a goldmine of feedback for Jerry.
Starting my business alone and without experience caused me to listen closely to customer feedback, and when time and resources allowed, would act upon it. Of course there were times when feedback was appreciated but impossible to accommodate simply because the customers were ignorant about certain dynamics of the business.
Inaction by a business owner, in spite of overwhelming advice and well-meaning feedback, is an interesting condition which can only frustrate those who seem convinced of its quality. I suspect that any refusal to digest and accommodate what appears to be good feedback, would be the result of a strong or stubborn personality, or perhaps a condition wherein the business owner knows something not available to those offering the feedback.
Charging lots of money to split an entree with someone or to have a starter as a main has nothing to do with the quality of the food or with the food being made in-house.
I have always enjoyed La cena. Jerry is a great host and the food is very good. Lunch would be welcomed.
I am disappointed at how quickly Ron's post has turned into the character assassination of a man who has, for more than 10 years, successfully survived downtown's Urban Core (UC), and has fought diligently to improve it. La Cena is not only one of Jacksonville's best restaurants, but also a beacon of hope for entrepreneurs considering opening up shop in the UC.
Perhaps what many of you fail to realize is that Chef Moran (Jerry) has been a renowned restaurateur since 1983. That is nearly 30 years of documented success in an industry well-known for failure.
Another fact that may have escaped you is that throughout the decade Jerry has operated his restaurant on Laura Street, he has simultaneously contributed his time, energy and expertise to the City of Jacksonville, serving in such roles as:
• Chairman of the Sheriff's Advisory Council
• Member, Hemming Park Ad Hoc Committee
• Member, Pioneers for JAX
Maybe those of you who believe that Jerry is: "a inhumane jerk [sic],†"a terrible human being," and one who lacks compassion and understanding for society’s less fortunate should know that he has made a career-long practice of offering opportunity, employment and mentorship to people of every background including:
• A gentleman with Asperger’s Syndrome who worked at La Cena for 11 years;
• An indigent youth who ran into the kitchen of Jerry's Southside restaurant one evening seeking shelter from gang violence and spent the next eight years working his way up from dishwasher to pantry cook to dining room server;
• A Vietnam Veteran suffering from PTSD who spent two years working at La Cena as a dishwasher before retiring on permanent disability.
Most notably, when his valued colleague of 27 years, Vicki Torres, was diagnosed with breast cancer, Jerry spared no expense in maintaining her health insurance coverage. He also provided her with much-needed support and encouragement throughout her therapy and recovery.
His commitment to his staff, customers and family is unwavering. When employees need transportation at the end of a shift, he is the one who drives them home. When customers feel uncertain navigating the UC's dark streets on foot after dinner, Jerry is the one who escorts them to their cars or drives them back to their hotels. And on the two days a week when La Cena is closed, he travels to Bradfor County to visit and care for his 92-year-old mother.
Jerry endorses local government; he supports philanthropic efforts; and, some of Jacksonville's most renowned chefs, like Tom Grey of Bistro AIX, have honed their skills in his kitchen before striking out on their own.
So, this is really a man you wish to mock and malign?
For God’s sake! This is his life's blood, his passion, his career and his reputation. He chooses to voice his opinions, no matter how controversial, in the hope that Jacksonville will eventually become a better, safer, and more vital metropolis. He stands behind his beliefs; he keeps his word; and he puts his money where his mouth is 100% of the time.
However, over the past ten years, he has endured repeated occurrences of vandalism and violenceâ€"many of which have taken place in the dark and deserted hours of late night or early morning. Thus, it should come as no surprise that he has literally begged for more police and governmental action to clean up the UC. He is, after all, a highly-trained CIA chef and an entrepreneur, not a one-man Justice League. I am certain that he would much rather spend his time cooking for his guests than acting as a security guard.
I just wonder how this has eluded the majority of posters on this thread.
I suggest that instead of smugly preaching, proselytizing and prognosticating from the sacred pulpits of your keyboard, you try facing some of the very angry, disturbed and dangerous people who wander in and around La Cena. How long do you think your self-righteous altruism would prevail before you realized that the big stick in that poor, unfortunate man’s hand was aimed directly at your head, and he was not in the mood for tea and sympathy?
The difference between the pictures you paint of a misanthropic cretin who terrorizes the homeless and the reality of what Jerry faces from the moment he opens his doors for business each evening is the difference between day and night.
Maybe it’s time that you put down the stones you cast so freely, come out of your pretty little stained glass houses, and try walking a mile in Jerry Moran’s shoes…or better yet, try working for one 18-hour day in those shoes…deep in the heart of Jacksonville's beloved, albeit underserved, Urban Core.
P.S. Since joining the MetroJacksonville Forum, I have read most all of Jerry's posts, though it appears he stopped writing in late 2010. I find them to be brilliant, to the point, and often wryly humorous.
“A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one, must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets tough.†Ronald Reagan
Well, you know what they say - opinions are like assholes.
"beacon of hope", I'll give him two points for that one.
one-post wonder, and that one post is a heartwarming tribute to Jerry Moran. i find that highly suspicious.
Smacks of sock puppetry.
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 10, 2012, 03:51:23 PM
one-post wonder, and that one post is a heartwarming tribute to Jerry Moran. i find that highly suspicious.
Not only suspicious, but hilarious.....
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
La Cena is not only one of Jacksonville's best restaurants, but also a beacon of hope for entrepreneurs considering opening up shop in the UC.
"Beacon of hope" language....gotta love it!!!
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
Another fact that may have escaped you is that throughout the decade Jerry has operated his restaurant on Laura Street, he has simultaneously contributed his time, energy and expertise to the City of Jacksonville, serving in such roles as:
• Chairman of the Sheriff's Advisory Council
• Member, Hemming Park Ad Hoc Committee
• Member, Pioneers for JAX
Yeah, because he's done SUCH great work for the Hemming Park Ad Hoc Committee!!!
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
• An indigent youth who ran into the kitchen of Jerry's Southside restaurant one evening seeking shelter from gang violence and spent the next eight years working his way up from dishwasher to pantry cook to dining room server;
8 years to work up from a dishwasher to a server? Suspicious at best...
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
• A Vietnam Veteran suffering from PTSD who spent two years working at La Cena as a dishwasher before retiring on permanent disability.
So now we're throwing him props for being an equal-opportunity employer?? How humane!
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
Most notably, when his valued colleague of 27 years, Vicki Torres, was diagnosed with breast cancer, Jerry spared no expense in maintaining her health insurance coverage. He also provided her with much-needed support and encouragement throughout her therapy and recovery.
Ok, here we go..let's give Jerry a pat on the back for KEEPING someone's health insurance during a time of need...instead of the alternative: canceling it. Seems like we're working with a humanist!!
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
Jerry endorses local government
Red flag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
So, this is really a man you wish to mock and malign?
Absolutely!
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
I suggest that instead of smugly preaching, proselytizing and prognosticating from the sacred pulpits of your keyboard, you try facing some of the very angry, disturbed and dangerous people who wander in and around La Cena. How long do you think your self-righteous altruism would prevail before you realized that the big stick in that poor, unfortunate man’s hand was aimed directly at your head, and he was not in the mood for tea and sympathy?
Maybe it’s time that you put down the stones you cast so freely, come out of your pretty little stained glass houses, and try walking a mile in Jerry Moran’s shoes…or better yet, try working for one 18-hour day in those shoes…deep in the heart of Jacksonville's beloved, albeit underserved, Urban Core.
Too f'ing funny.
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
P.S. Since joining the MetroJacksonville Forum, I have read most all of Jerry's posts, though it appears he stopped writing in late 2010. I find them to be brilliant, to the point, and often wryly humorous.
Brilliant?
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
“A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one, must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets tough.†Ronald Reagan
Oh god....the requisite Reagan quote....
Lemme guess...ssky will never post on MetroJax again. And, if he does, it's on this thread and this thread only....
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 10, 2012, 03:51:23 PM
one-post wonder, and that one post is a heartwarming tribute to Jerry Moran. i find that highly suspicious.
I am curious: As I have just become a member, would I not automatically be a "one-post wonder" by virtue of the fact that...to restate the obvious...it's my first post? Is that what is really suspicious? Or is it the fact that I didn't join the lynch mob when I joined the discussion? Please enlighten me.
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 05:59:25 PM
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 10, 2012, 03:51:23 PM
one-post wonder, and that one post is a heartwarming tribute to Jerry Moran. i find that highly suspicious.
I am curious: As I have just become a member, would I not automatically be a "one-post wonder" by virtue of the fact that...to restate the obvious...it's my first post? Is that what is really suspicious? Or is it the fact that I didn't join the lynch mob when I joined the discussion? Please enlighten me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
Quote from: Adam W on October 10, 2012, 06:07:09 PM
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 05:59:25 PM
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 10, 2012, 03:51:23 PM
one-post wonder, and that one post is a heartwarming tribute to Jerry Moran. i find that highly suspicious.
I am curious: As I have just become a member, would I not automatically be a "one-post wonder" by virtue of the fact that...to restate the obvious...it's my first post? Is that what is really suspicious? Or is it the fact that I didn't join the lynch mob when I joined the discussion? Please enlighten me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29)
especially the second point--it was a couple weeks before people realized i'm not just a troll account. i expect a few aren't sure. the main thing that makes me suspicious is how effusive and detailed that was--highly unusual for a first post.
I apologize for my possible oversight, but precisely where did Jerry Moran talk about leaving downtown at all? This post was begun by Ron "Yoda" Chamblain and since then, though I have seen comments from the predictable crew, I have seen nary a word from Jerry. Btw, just because I have never posted before does not mean I don't follow the conversation.
Quote from: stephendare on October 10, 2012, 09:18:15 PM
well big guy, you are welcome to stick with whatever nonsensical theory that you would like to have.
More power to you in fact.
However in reality land, the only person who has talked about leaving downtown is Jerry Moran. Since he can't get his specific narrow way.
Oh, for Heaven's sake, Stephen! Please just read what I wrote and stop trying to infer things that are not there. I merely stated that in all of the posts on this rather long and winding thread, Jerry has not weighed in. I know Ron personally and I think he is wonderful. I truly do think he is a Yoda for many downtown. And, I have no doubt that Marlene told him what he then posted. I am just saying that Jerry, as far as I have read, has never weighed in. So, stay on point and please stop trying to incite a riot.
Btw, what happened to Big Guy's post? I was trying to finish reading it when it suddenly disappeared. Is that also part of the moderation policy? As a "newbie" I really need some guidelines.
And, just as a matter of curiosity, if calling Jerry a misanthropic, inhumane jerk and a terrible human being is not a personal attack upon his character, then what is? Thank you again for any and all insight as I navigate through the murky waters of my First Amendment rights on this forum.
Quote from: stephendare on October 10, 2012, 10:22:30 PM
Other posts were more egregious and attacked the integrity of posters directly which is not allowed.
When debating, always leave your opponent the benefit of the doubt. Let them be mistaken or decieved, but do not call them liars.
Describe their ideas as lunacy, but do not call them a lunatic.
Denounce their opinions as stupid or halfbaked, but do not call a person stupid directly.
The drivel that comes from Stephen's keyboard is not only somewhat a poor attempt at a long ago eloquent style of writing typically both a pain in the ass and a refreshing breath to read but it's also keenly biased and typically assholish is nature. Though, Stephen, is a generally pleasant guy. ;)
It's all about subject / verb usage, Sky.
My last statement was not even close to a personal attack of Stephen, just his words. Which you may or may not agree with. (2+ years and I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. Watch out world! On to debating pay-per-fire and 'sticking' friends)
Quote from: ben says on October 10, 2012, 04:03:41 PM
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 10, 2012, 03:51:23 PM
one-post wonder, and that one post is a heartwarming tribute to Jerry Moran. i find that highly suspicious.
Not only suspicious, but hilarious.....
To each his own.
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
La Cena is not only one of Jacksonville's best restaurants, but also a beacon of hope for entrepreneurs considering opening up shop in the UC.
"Beacon of hope" language....gotta love it!!!
You should, 'tis true.
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
Another fact that may have escaped you is that throughout the decade Jerry has operated his restaurant on Laura Street, he has simultaneously contributed his time, energy and expertise to the City of Jacksonville, serving in such roles as:
• Chairman of the Sheriff's Advisory Council
• Member, Hemming Park Ad Hoc Committee
• Member, Pioneers for JAX
Yeah, because he's done SUCH great work for the Hemming Park Ad Hoc Committee!!!
He did! What have you done?
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
• An indigent youth who ran into the kitchen of Jerry's Southside restaurant one evening seeking shelter from gang violence and spent the next eight years working his way up from dishwasher to pantry cook to dining room server;
8 years to work up from a dishwasher to a server? Suspicious at best...
Once again, you miss the point. The misanthropic, inhumane man you describe would never have hired that guy to begin with.
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
• A Vietnam Veteran suffering from PTSD who spent two years working at La Cena as a dishwasher before retiring on permanent disability.
So now we're throwing him props for being an equal-opportunity employer?? How humane!
Yes, he is. Quite a bit different that the way you describe him.
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
Most notably, when his valued colleague of 27 years, Vicki Torres, was diagnosed with breast cancer, Jerry spared no expense in maintaining her health insurance coverage. He also provided her with much-needed support and encouragement throughout her therapy and recovery.
Ok, here we go..let's give Jerry a pat on the back for KEEPING someone's health insurance during a time of need...instead of the alternative: canceling it. Seems like we're working with a humanist!!
Oh, Ben. This is so sad. You really don't know of what you speak, do you?
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
Jerry endorses local government
Red flag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Indeed?
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
So, this is really a man you wish to mock and malign?
Absolutely!
Because? Really. I am very curious. As far as I am aware, you don't know the man at all. So, how have you chosen to unload all of your pent-up hostility on him?
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
I suggest that instead of smugly preaching, proselytizing and prognosticating from the sacred pulpits of your keyboard, you try facing some of the very angry, disturbed and dangerous people who wander in and around La Cena. How long do you think your self-righteous altruism would prevail before you realized that the big stick in that poor, unfortunate man’s hand was aimed directly at your head, and he was not in the mood for tea and sympathy?
Maybe it’s time that you put down the stones you cast so freely, come out of your pretty little stained glass houses, and try walking a mile in Jerry Moran’s shoes better yet, try working for one 18-hour day in those shoes…deep in the heart of Jacksonville's beloved, albeit underserved, Urban Core.
Too f'ing funny.
Sadly, I am not surprised you find it amusing.
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
P.S. Since joining the MetroJacksonville Forum, I have read most all of Jerry's posts, though it appears he stopped writing in late 2010. I find them to be brilliant, to the point, and often wryly humorous.
Brilliant?
Yes, brilliant and prophetic.
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
“A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one, must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets tough.” Ronald Reagan
Oh god....the requisite Reagan quote....
Yes, that was really more of a tribute to: If_I_Loved You, who should begin practicing more of what he preaches...or, in his case, quotes.
ssky -
Your First Amendment rights don't extend to this forum.
And I don't think you understand what a red herring is.
You may not be Jerry Moran. But you can't blame people for thinking you *might* be. No one faults you for taking issue with some of the things that were posted on this forum. But it's the obsequious manner you went about making the case for Jerry Moran that raised a lot of suspicions.
I don't care one way or another about Jerry Moran or La Cena. I've heard good things about the food. But I decided years ago never to ever eat there when I read stuff he posted about homeless people (and saw videos he posted as well).
I don't know the guy and accept that he may very well be a perfectly nice human being in every other way - I can only judge him on his actions. He has permanently lost my business for acting in a way that I can only describe as hateful towards an entire class of people.
The following three things allowed me to conclude that Jerry is probably serious about leaving the core. The first is his comments over the past year that he is thinking about leaving downtown. As I mentioned on my first post, I thought this was just an exaggeration or a bluff, and that he actually liked being in the core. The second is when, about two weeks ago, while I was getting a salad, his waitress, Vicky, mentioned that Jerry had been out looking at a building as a possible site for a move. The third was when, about five days ago, Marlene, the other waitress, said that he was looking for a place to move the restaurant.
So, given these events, I can only assume that he is in fact, looking to move out of the core. Is he bluffing, wishing to give the impression he is moving? Could be. But why would he? As I've said, I haven't talked with him since.
The main thing I wanted to do is to express my hope that he does not move out of the core; and this, simply because I believe that overall he is a great asset, in spite of the negatives we all discussed concerning his rather insensitive treatment of the homeless and the vagrants.
My postings have also suggested that whereas Jerry and me began years ago with confronting the homeless/vagrant from opposite extremes, me being too naive in treating them with too much consideration and accommodation, and he, with too little regard for their plight, seemingly attacking them by any means, I have moved in his direction out of necessity, and he has remained steadfast in his outlook.
In any case, I suspect that most of us appreciate Jerry's ability to survive in the core, his hard work, and his willingness to speak his mind about issues. If you're in a pinch, Jerry's the kind of guy to have around simply because he knows so much about how things work. His ability to solve such a variety of problems is one reason he has survived in business, and continues to survive in the core.
The arguments we've engaged illustrates Metrojacksonville's value to the city.
ssky - If La Cena does as well as other restaurants taken to task by posters on MetroJacksonville, then I wouldn't worry....Moon River Pizza and Three Layers Cafe are doing quite well despite many, many pages of criticism. : )
Quote from: thelakelander on October 09, 2012, 03:04:35 PM
Tell him to open a 200 seat restaurant in Avondale and enjoy the fireworks.
On the other hand... a small, intimate, upscale Italian restaurant would fit very well in Avondale...
Any idea on how many seats his current location has?
Quote from: ssky on October 10, 2012, 10:13:52 PM
Btw, what happened to Big Guy's post? I was trying to finish reading it when it suddenly disappeared. Is that also part of the moderation policy? As a "newbie" I really need some guidelines.
And, just as a matter of curiosity, if calling Jerry a misanthropic, inhumane jerk and a terrible human being is not a personal attack upon his character, then what is? Thank you again for any and all insight as I navigate through the murky waters of my First Amendment rights on this forum.
Oh you are getting the hang of it. Personal attacks are OK if Stevie agrees with it or it fits his narrative. Point out what is stupid and incorrect and he cannot defend it then it gets omitted.
Der fuhrer does not like dissent from his narrative.
Ok, once and for all, I am not, nor shall I ever be, Jerry Moran. And, while I appreciate your helping hand with the use of the English language, I do indeed know what a red herring is. Ron's thread began with a discussion of the possibility that La Cena may leave the Urban Core.
However, it quickly disintegrated into an assault on the man's character, and other random commentary that was fairly to completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. The point is how much Downtown Jacksonville will suffer if it loses a prominent business that has survived in the core of the Core for ten years. It is not about Jerry's political views, his menu, his pricing or any of the myriad of topics that have served to distract from the true subject of the thread.
I posted because I believe this is very important for everyone involved in Downtown Jacksonville's future. We can't keep losing business after business after business if we really want the UC to be viable. And, we can't keep going on random witch hunts just because certain people among us need a target.
I wasn't obsequious in my first post... I was just unpopular in my unwavering support. It seems utterly unbelievable to me that anyone who does not know Jerry, and has never eaten at his restaurant, feels qualified to judge him at all...let alone label him as being "hateful towards an entire class of human beings."
In conclusion, I respectfully agree to disagree. And, I can only hope that you find other criteria upon which to form your future opinions of people, places and things.
Oh, and btw, the First Amendment comment was tongue in cheek. Hopefully we do not have to consult Wiki about that one.
Quote from: Adam W on October 11, 2012, 02:30:44 AM
ssky -
Your First Amendment rights don't extend to this forum.
And I don't think you understand what a red herring is.
You may not be Jerry Moran. But you can't blame people for thinking you *might* be. No one faults you for taking issue with some of the things that were posted on this forum. But it's the obsequious manner you went about making the case for Jerry Moran that raised a lot of suspicions.
I don't care one way or another about Jerry Moran or La Cena. I've heard good things about the food. But I decided years ago never to ever eat there when I read stuff he posted about homeless people (and saw videos he posted as well).
I don't know the guy and accept that he may very well be a perfectly nice human being in every other way - I can only judge him on his actions. He has permanently lost my business for acting in a way that I can only describe as hateful towards an entire class of people.
How about this for criterion, ssky.....
1) overpriced
2) rude owner
3) good, but not great
4) unnecessarily high sharing fees
5) arrogant staff (they probably learn from it from their boss)
6) anyone who has an opinion about his food that doesn't include "this was fantastic" gets the "you don't know shit about REAL italian food"
7) not open for lunch
8 ) doesn't even pretend to embrace a younger clientele
9) and, lastly, while you may disagree, the behavior of the owner IS a valid and reasonable critique of the business as a whole
Are those specific enough??? I don't believe those are character-assasinations
Quote from: ssky on October 11, 2012, 03:58:49 PM
However, it quickly disintegrated into ... random commentary that was fairly to completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but this is not the least bit unusual on a MJ Forum thread.
Quote from: ben says on October 11, 2012, 04:03:38 PM
How about this for criterion, ssky.....
1) overpriced
Upon what criteria do you base that statement? La Cena's pricing, according to my research, seems to be very much in-line with the current marketplace for upscale dining.
2) rude owner
To use the vernacular..."huh?" Please tell me what leads you to that conclusion.
3) good, but not great
I apologize, but that is pretty vague. "Good, but not great," what?
4) unnecessarily high sharing fees
Again, based upon what data? I promise to keep an open mind if you will back up these claims.
5) arrogant staff (they probably learn from it from their boss)
Oh, Ben, that was beneath you. How is that not character assassination?
6) anyone who has an opinion about his food that doesn't include "this was fantastic" gets the "you don't know shit about REAL italian food"
From whom? To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't posted since 2010, so perhaps the disagreement is coming from other patrons. If you think otherwise, please tell me.
7) not open for lunch
True now, but he he DID open La Cena for lunch in October of 2008. There just was not enough business to justify keeping it open for lunch. Come on, Ben, you're reaching on that one. You could have found that information on the internet.
8 ) doesn't even pretend to embrace a younger clientele
If you mean infants and toddlers, you are correct. But, La Cena is not Chuckie Cheese. La Cena is a place you go when, if you have children, you hire a babysitter and make it a date night. It's quiet, upscale and romantic. Crying babies and screaming toddlers tend to ruin date nights. And, make no mistake, I adore children. I just don't particularly want them romping about while I am enjoying a rare night out. However, if you mean patrons in their 20's and 30's, I beg to disagree and ask you to clarify.
9) and, lastly, while you may disagree, the behavior of the owner IS a valid and reasonable critique of the business as a whole
I think that is a stretch. But, if we must go there, I will say that Jerry has, over ten years, endured more than most people would ever withstand. And after just two days of posting on this thread myself, and meeting all of you, I will also say that he has done so with remarkable grace and decorum.
Are those specific enough??? I don't believe those are character-assasinations
Mea culpa. I was only trying to answer Ben's questions. I shall sign off for now. All the best.
Quote from: ssky on October 11, 2012, 06:23:51 PM
Mea culpa. I was only trying to answer Ben's questions. I shall sign off for now. All the best.
Goodnight Jerry.
Wow 2012.....I was just at La Cena last night, even saw Jerry, or maybe that was his ghost. Still a pension for getting it right, food was amazing and there were large parties there from CSX and another downtown group, so Jerry is still doing the right thing!
This place has always intrigued me. I've never been, nor have any of my friends. We all live in Riverside and have been to most (maybe all?) restaurants here and in downtown. I've always heard the food is fine to great depending on the person. Still never been for some reason. However, it's still open after all these years. I see through this thread that Simms' parents go there, Gov. Scott has been, and CSX dinners occur there.
Perhaps the real value in this place is that it draws a customer base to the Core that not many others do. I don't know Jerry, but I can applaud an establishment that accomplishes that task. We need more options in the Core for that demographic.
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on March 27, 2014, 08:41:33 AM
Perhaps the real value in this place is that it draws a customer base to the Core that not many others do. I don't know Jerry, but I can applaud an establishment that accomplishes that task. We need more options in the Core for that demographic.
Agree
QuotePerhaps the real value in this place is that it draws a customer base to the Core that not many others do. I don't know Jerry, but I can applaud an establishment that accomplishes that task. We need more options in the Core for that demographic.
I disagree, one of the large parties there on Wednesday night were young professionals in their 20s and 30s. They were debating on whether or not to go to Dos Gatos after their meal. There are not a lot of sit down eating establishments in DT Jax, so La Cena is a nice offering catering to professionals, businesses and tourists.
Such a shame that they will not be open for One Spark, Jerry is very creative, I think he could do well and draw more people if he hit the streets and promoted his offering to a younger crowd. I hope to see him walking around One Spark at least.
Why was this awful thread resurrected!?! It should be against forum rules for moderators to bump old, dead, controversial threads to drive traffic.
This place is in the heart of downtown and the interior is one of the coolest spaces downtown, but the prices and smugness incurred for what is decent food and bad drink make it a loser. Some new blood in this space, and they could be making money hand over fist.
Clearly, people will reply to old threads, so you answered your own question PeeJayEss. :-)
Quotethe prices and smugness incurred for what is decent food and bad drink make it a loser.
I just love the first amendment, the same amendment that allows me to march down the street in a Nazi parade or the same that allows you to trash one of my favorite restaurants. Freedom of speech! Its a ball buster!