An interesting article by the Jacksonville Business Journal's Ashley Gurbal Kritzer. Evidently, Advanced Disposal is considering moving their Southside corporated headquarters to downtown or leaving Jax and going to Milwaukee.
Milwaukee ramps up efforts to woo Jacksonville's Advanced DisposalQuoteAdvanced Disposal CEO Charles Appleby told The Business Journal in late July that the company is considering Jacksonville or Milwaukee for its corporate headquarters following a series of acquisitions. One of the larger companies it acquired, Veolia ES Solid Waste, is based in Milwaukee.
Appleby said that if the waste management company stays in Jacksonville, he’d move the office Downtown and seek economic development incentives.
full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/2012/08/milwaukee-ramps-up-efforts-to-woo.html
How many jobs are we talking here?
I am sure that Jacksonville will find a way to screw it up.
It's not likely we'd be gaining any jobs from this. However, if they're serious it would be worth some incentives to move downtown (and avoid losing jobs) IMO. It sounds to me like their bigger assets are in Wisconsin now though. At any rate we'd be stupid not to give it a shot.
Quote from: carpnter on August 10, 2012, 01:43:06 PM
How many jobs are we talking here?
I am sure that Jacksonville will find a way to screw it up.
You may be right, but I hope they stay here.
SunBelt vs RustBelt: A no-brainer. (Of course were talking about Hizzoner Alvin & the Chipmunks. Leave it to them to screw it up.)
^ a visit to downtown Milwaukee might have you re-thinking that...just because it is in the midwest doesn't mean it isn't liveley and thriving.
Uh, this 'could be' a bunch of jobs if we got the Veolia folks to move to Jacksonville. Our city and citizens should know that Veolia is also a huge world wide operator of passenger and commuter rail systems. Shame we're not getting THAT part of the company.
http://www.veoliawater.com/about/history/
http://www.veoliatransportation.com/rail/
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 11, 2012, 11:34:54 PM
^ a visit to downtown Milwaukee might have you re-thinking that...just because it is in the midwest doesn't mean it isn't liveley and thriving.
Thats what I meant. But reading it again I can see where it could be misinterpreted.
What I meant was staying in Jacksonville (the SunBelt) would be a no-brainer, compared to moving to Milwaukee(yuk!)
Quote from: BackinJax05 on August 12, 2012, 12:32:52 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 11, 2012, 11:34:54 PM
^ a visit to downtown Milwaukee might have you re-thinking that...just because it is in the midwest doesn't mean it isn't liveley and thriving.
Thats what I meant. But reading it again I can see where it could be misinterpreted.
What I meant was staying in Jacksonville (the SunBelt) would be a no-brainer, compared to moving to Milwaukee(yuk!)
no BackinJax...what I mean is downtown Milwaukee is very VERY nice....as are some of the neighborhoods along the lake north fo downtown.
Jax. is doomed if we think that our natural setting will trump cities with better physical facilities and amenities.
You never realize how cold Milwaukee is in January until you cannot feel your toes and fingers. Snow lingers on for months too.
It's very unlikely this decision will be made based on who has a nicer downtown, better weather, prettier people, etc. Much more likely it will be based on factors like where most of their operations are after the acquisitions (appears to be Wisconsin now) and what kind of incentives they're given.
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 12, 2012, 08:13:19 AM
Quote from: BackinJax05 on August 12, 2012, 12:32:52 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 11, 2012, 11:34:54 PM
^ a visit to downtown Milwaukee might have you re-thinking that...just because it is in the midwest doesn't mean it isn't liveley and thriving.
Thats what I meant. But reading it again I can see where it could be misinterpreted.
What I meant was staying in Jacksonville (the SunBelt) would be a no-brainer, compared to moving to Milwaukee(yuk!)
no BackinJax...what I mean is downtown Milwaukee is very VERY nice....as are some of the neighborhoods along the lake north fo downtown.
Jax. is doomed if we think that our natural setting will trump cities with better physical facilities and amenities.
Downtown Milwaukee might be very VERY nice, but it, and the neighborhoods along the lake are in a deep freeze several months out of the year. Who knows? Advanced Disposal could be the thing that finally kicks downtown into the 20th century.
This will be interesting because Governor Scott and Governor Walker both claim to be pro-business leaders who have put a lot of money into lowering taxes and increasing incentives for companies. I'm guessing Advanced Disposal will make their choice based on whichever state comes up with the best incentive plan.
It sounds to me like they are using Milwaukee as leverage to get incentives, and will stay in Jax. Otherwise, why would WI officials be unawre of their interests.
Glad to see them interested in moving downtown. Alvin Brown better get in touch with them!
Quote from: vicupstate on August 13, 2012, 05:18:21 AM
It sounds to me like they are using Milwaukee as leverage to get incentives, and will stay in Jax. Otherwise, why would WI officials be unawre of their interests.
Or, they're using Downtown Jax as leverage to get incentives out of Wisconsin. Either way we're crazy if we don't at least give it a go.
downtown Milwaukee is very cool. No idea about the winter in as I've only visited it during the summer months. Minneapolis is cold as hell, but that doesn't stop that area from attract businesses.
I think he wants to stay in Jacksonville; he's just using Milwaukee as a leverage to get our leaders to give him the incentives that he's after. It is a "no brainer" as someone said. Jacksonville: Weather, Beaches, Sunshine, better economy in Jax I believe and more. Who would want to go back up into snow, cold, sagging economy in that region, much less sunshine, and overall piss poor weather, and no beaches. YOU MAKE THE CALL!!!
Quote from: heights unknown on August 13, 2012, 06:05:47 PM
I think he wants to stay in Jacksonville; he's just using Milwaukee as a leverage to get our leaders to give him the incentives that he's after. It is a "no brainer" as someone said. Jacksonville: Weather, Beaches, Sunshine, better economy in Jax I believe and more. Who would want to go back up into snow, cold, sagging economy in that region, much less sunshine, and overall piss poor weather, and no beaches. YOU MAKE THE CALL!!!
I'd go back to the Midwest in a heartbeat if that was an option.
Quote from: JFman00 on August 13, 2012, 06:54:18 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on August 13, 2012, 06:05:47 PM
I think he wants to stay in Jacksonville; he's just using Milwaukee as a leverage to get our leaders to give him the incentives that he's after. It is a "no brainer" as someone said. Jacksonville: Weather, Beaches, Sunshine, better economy in Jax I believe and more. Who would want to go back up into snow, cold, sagging economy in that region, much less sunshine, and overall piss poor weather, and no beaches. YOU MAKE THE CALL!!!
I'd go back to the Midwest in a heartbeat if that was an option.
And i would never move to the Midwest. However, as neither of us appear to own this company it's kind of irrelevant.
I think it's a little paranoid to think that they're only threatening to move for incentives, or that Jax's climate is enough to make it a sure thing they'll stay.
We definitely shouldn't go overboard in incentives though, like some towns do:
Why Have So Many Cities and Towns Given Away So Much Money to Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's? (http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/08/why-have-so-many-cities-and-towns-given-away-so-much-money-bass-pro-shops-and-cabelas/2906/)
^Neither of those things are paranoid. They're complacent, which is the opposite end of the spectrum, though probably just as problematic.
As I say I highly doubt they're threatening a move for incentives (or rather *just* for incentives). Though I agree we should never go overboard with incentives.
Are incentives the same as corporate welfare?
Depends on the ROI to the taxpayer in my opinion. Every deal needs to be evaluated individual on its own merits.
^Yes, most certainly. An incentive deal that has a good return on investment can be as good for a community as any other use of public money. A deal with no ROI can be as bad as any other waste of public money (or $5 million dollar mathematical error). There are of course some who believe that any kind of incentive to a private company is a "handout"; that's short sighted.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2012, 09:06:45 AM
Are incentives the same as corporate welfare?
It depends, if it is for DT it is an incentive. Anywhere else in town it is corporate welfare.
JFman00...that is exactly why Bass Pro Shops isn't in Jax. They wanted to open at the Avenues Walk and JEDC told them no to the incentives unless they built it downtown.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 14, 2012, 10:34:12 AM
^Yes, most certainly. An incentive deal that has a good return on investment can be as good for a community as any other use of public money. A deal with no ROI can be as bad as any other waste of public money (or $5 million dollar mathematical error). There are of course some who believe that any kind of incentive to a private company is a "handout"; that's short sighted.
Thanks Tac... the corporate welfare term gets thrown about frequently
They won't let Intuition open a brewery DT. (which is a major contributor of charactor in any big city) But they tell Bass Pro Shop they can't open in Jax unless it's DT? DT, which has no river access whatsoever nor are there any plans to remedy that problem! That makes no sense at all! That's our leadership, gotta love em! Way to go JAX you did it again!
Quote from: urbaknight on August 14, 2012, 12:14:57 PM
They won't let Intuition open a brewery DT. (which is a major contributor of charactor in any big city) But they tell Bass Pro Shop they can't open in Jax unless it's DT? DT, which has no river access whatsoever nor are there any plans to remedy that problem! That makes no sense at all! That's our leadership, gotta love em! Way to go JAX you did it again!
Just curious why they wouldn't let Intuition open downtown?
^^more like at the Shipyards property. The city doesnt want to break up the land into smaller pieces. They ought to be bending over backwards to help this guy.
Personally, on the surface, I wouldn't provide Bass Pro with any incentives to open up at Avenues Walk either.
Quote from: fsujax on August 14, 2012, 12:57:58 PM
^^more like at the Shipyards property. The city doesnt want to break up the land into smaller pieces. They ought to be bending over backwards to help this guy.
should they have given Intuition the land for free?
how could it hurt? or for really cheap.
I wouldn't give anyone any land for free and I don't think the Shipyards property was prime for Intuition. But the city is insane not to get them downtown. Just an example of the state of affairs we're in right now.
I wonder if their planned aquisition of $20 million worth of compressed natural gas stations in Georgia will have any pull in the decision.
Quote from: Pinky on August 14, 2012, 12:45:59 PM
Quote from: urbaknight on August 14, 2012, 12:14:57 PM
They won't let Intuition open a brewery DT. (which is a major contributor of charactor in any big city) But they tell Bass Pro Shop they can't open in Jax unless it's DT? DT, which has no river access whatsoever nor are there any plans to remedy that problem! That makes no sense at all! That's our leadership, gotta love em! Way to go JAX you did it again!
Just curious why they wouldn't let Intuition open downtown?
I think it has to do with the fact that, they don't really want charactor or any urban style development to take place in this town.
QuoteI wouldn't give anyone any land for free and I don't think the Shipyards property was prime for Intuition. But the city is insane not to get them downtown. Just an example of the state of affairs we're in right now.
The problem in Jax, as I see it, is that we have bureaucrats in charge of City real estate. They lack vision, they lack timing and they lack trust. The city would do well to sell the land they are sitting on to developers who would be held to the overlays and restrictions of downtown development. The City has no place in developing anything other than a headache for taxpayers.