Apparently Fuel is closed---although there are rumours that it will reopen as the site of Democratic Party activity.
Ragland's seems to be doing ok, Starlight is still going strong (despite the occasional violence) and rumor has it that the Shad's are planning on converting the Five Points Building into a dinner theatre.
which is, two places actually open and two maybes.
Did Heartworks finally close?
When did Fuel close? That sucks!!
Gentrification...
Shantytown, Boomtown and the Pearl seem to be doing good in Springfield. What will it take to get the Five Points crowd over to Main Street? What's the biggest obstacle? Is it leasing rates, available buildings, building conditions or a mixture of all three?
I have noticed several empty storefronts in the Five Points area recently.
I wonder will an alternative district spring up (I hope) or will everything follow the general pattern of this city and get spread out to the point where few notice.
Quote from: stephenc on February 01, 2008, 10:09:06 AM
When did Fuel close? That sucks!!
I didn't know either. I used to go there on Friday nights after work. They were one of the first to ban smoking inside.
The Just had a show there on Sunday. I believe the US Bombs, and some other bands. I know French Quarter shut down over on Philips hiway to become a mexican restaurant. and Thee Imperial shutdown last summer, but has been booking for Fuel.
As an aside, it does seem more activity is being seen on Main. Doozers Pub, a little punk bar, has an active band schedule up around 63rd and Main, Shanty of course has done well. Pearl seems to have a consistent crowd, and I think we are having success at 9th and Main with great food and entertainment options.
I don't think Fuel is necessarily closed. Raglands and Fuel are owned by the same person and he is currently renovating Raglands' interior - and he's doing all the work himself! Perhaps this is just a case of attention being focused elsewhere temporarily. Fuel is also doubling as a practice space I think because I am constantly seeing dudes in there making "noise".
Overall, the net business at 5-points is probably even (if you count the speculation) because I heard from one of the owners that there is also a Japanese steakhouse and another boutique planned to open.
The japanese restaurant is opening at the corner of park and post. They have some signs up.
Quote from: stephendare on February 01, 2008, 01:41:30 PMIt does seem to have diminished a lot as of lately. I suspect that the coming economic downturn is going to help Five Points. It formed during the last Bush Recession, as the suburban entertainment establishments collapsed creating a public demand for entertainment and the low rent from the rundown district appealed to young entreprenuers.
It would be nice to see Jim reinvent, however. It doesnt take a large place to reignite a scene, just large people with contagious ideas and enthusiasm, but he does have a great position in the neighborhood.
I think Five Points has forever changed, regardless of an economic downturn. Leasing rates will never be as low as they were 15 - 20 years ago when it originally took off. Even with a downturn, there's several centralized locations over town that can provide the same type of atmosphere Five Points had in the 1990s, with lower rents available.
QuoteIt depends on the human element, I would say.
How do lease rates play into this? I mean the human element would love to see these types of things in downtown, but high lease rates, parking issues, etc. prohibits it from becoming a reality.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 01, 2008, 04:23:20 PMHow do lease rates play into this? I mean the human element would love to see these types of things in downtown, but high lease rates, parking issues, etc. prohibits it from becoming a reality.
That's very true - for example, I don't know of anyone who is OPPOSED to downtown developing. There are only so many people willing to be pioneers.
Okay, first of all Fuel closed?
No it didn't. SO that right there tells everyone how informed you are and how much credence we should give anything you write.
Secondly, Wow, I didn't realize that the sole reason 5 Points was successful back in the 80s/90s was because of you and how cool everything you did was. That is amazing. Can I touch you?
Third, to quote: "There are a whole lot of the people needed to creatively push forward over there, but I think there are more of that type who are also MOTIVATED in springfield."
Then STEP THE F**K UP. I have friends working their asses off in 5 Points, and they do a lot more with their work then people do in Springfield. Say, uh, Boomtown for example.
QuoteI wonder will an alternative district spring up (I hope) or will everything follow the general pattern of this city and get spread out to the point where few notice.
I think Five Points has forever changed, regardless of an economic downturn. Leasing rates will never be as low as they were 15 - 20 years ago when it originally took off. Even with a downturn, there's several centralized locations over town that can provide the same type of atmosphere Five Points had in the 1990s, with lower rents available.
Lastly, Why does the theme have to be 5 Points vs. Springfield? Everyone should support each other, I know I do-- except for the more-than-occasional poorly run restaurant in the 'field.
And, OF COURSE 5 POINTS ISN'T THE SAME AS IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO! What is? That is 2 F'ING decades. Everything evolves, and the district that is there now is more in the spirit of the 5 Points of yore than anywhere else in Jacksonville.
Quote from: Eazy E on February 01, 2008, 06:44:53 PMLastly, Why does the theme have to be 5 Points vs. Springfield? Everyone should support each other, I know I do-- except for the more-than-occasional poorly run restaurant in the 'field.
And, OF COURSE 5 POINTS ISN'T THE SAME AS IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO! What is? That is 2 F'ING decades. Everything evolves, and the district that is there now is more in the spirit of the 5 Points of yore than anywhere else in Jacksonville.
lol, breathe Eazy E, baby breathe. Its not that serious. Its just a conversation on a message board and my opinion is just.....an opinion, like yours. There's no reason to get an ulcer over some comment over the internet.
Mr. Boomtown will have to speak for himself, however I'll be glad to explain my concerns. I have nothing against Five Points. I fact, I'm a supporter than frequents the spot on a regular basis and wish the strip nothing but the best. Its a place that makes Jacksonville special and we need more areas like it. However, I'm also a realist. Its no secret that cities evolve as time goes on and there's a level of gentification taking place as lease rates rise and chain stores/restaurants start to enter the picture. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because every cosmopolitan and vibrant city needs diversity.
My concern is that if some businesses have to leave for growth/change, at least see if the possibility to relocate to other ideal urban spots takes place. Springfield is one of those spots that I believe may be an ideal alternative for businesses that have to move on. But I think the same about commercial strips like Edgewood Av, Park & King, Downtown and Hendricks. The more the merrier in my book. So don't think my intents have anything to do with a Five Points vs. Springfield. Everyone should support each other. You know the saying....united we stand, divided we fall.
Long live Five Points.
Five Points is healthier than ever. In fact, the retail district which once encompassed the original few blocks east and south of the intersection of Park, Margaret and Lomax Streets has now almost doubled in size. It now goes all the way down Margaret to Riverside Ave with the addition of the Publix shopping center and the 1661 retail and around Riverside to Goodwin. It also now runs down Oak to Goodwin with the Al's Pizza strip. All of this has been built since the last "Bush recession" in 1991 (I wonder why Stephen never refers to the good times as the Bush Boom?). ;)
So, naturally you will have some vacancies periodically as some places fail and some move around (like Smoothie King which is moving from the current Park Street location to a new one on Lomax in the ground floor of 1661). This natural state of flux is part of the free market known as creative destruction. Also, it is significantly more upscale in Five Points than it was in 1990 or even 2000 when dive bars and restaurants still predominated. This has been hastened by the rehabbing of the adjacent residential sections and the addition of many new condos to the area, all of which has brought in a demographic with much more disposable income. So, I expect Five Point's upward trajectory to continue, and this is a good thing. :)
QuoteOkay, first of all Fuel closed?No it didn't. SO that right there tells everyone how informed you are and how much credence we should give anything you write.
Secondly, Wow, I didn't realize that the sole reason 5 Points was successful back in the 80s/90s was because of you and how cool everything you did was. That is amazing. Can I touch you?
Weee! Now this is funny!
First of all, I was there on-and-off through the 50's-60's-70's-80's, so I've seen it all change.
Secondly, As an "Old Hippie" academic type, I understand this is an open discussion THINK TANK site. As far as your request for a touch, (it all depends on where you plan to do this). Remember I still have High Friends in Places!
Smile more, it's almost 4:20Ocklawaha
Gee, I missed a lot, lol.
Btw, here's something that's not a rumor. Time Warp is not in Five Points anymore as of Friday. As was published in the paper, Wendi was evicted :-\ Damn shame. Result of lower retail sales in the last 2 quarters? Result of rent hikes in 5-points? Result of poor financial planning? Don't know. Maybe all of the above for all I know. But, it really is a shame because the only other vintage store sells nothing but cowboy boots and ugly 80's crap, half of which I still have in a box in my attic. Anywho...
Here is one common theme in the way Jax thinks is the best way to draw business: They consistently put the cart before the horse. In 5-points, they have the belief that if they pretty-up some buildings, build retail strips, and increase the rent, that it will someone draw better and more upscale businesses to the area. Wrong. National retail chains want places where there is not only a demand for their product but has a proven retail record as well as a large popluation of the type of customer they're looking for. This, my friends, is why you saw the strip mall portion of Margaret street fill in when the Publix was completed. Publix has a proven record, catering to middle to upper class customers looking for a good product that won't bust their wallet. They (national chains) could've just as easily opened right on Park, but they wouldn't have generated the business.
There is also something unique to 5-points in regard to the existing, and longtime business owners. The majority of them don't care about turning a dollar. They are not willing to participate in projects to clean-up common areas, contribute to activities to draw new customers, or collaborate with one another coming up with ideas to help generate business. There used to be a beat-cop that was hired by the 'merchant's association' that would walk/ride the area, but when the one to two people who were paying for the services, could no longer support it on their own, he was gone. There were no Christmas lights in the area along Park at Christmas time this past year because no one wanted to take the time or spend the money to make the place look pretty and festive to draw crowds. They are completely indifferent. Like I said, this isn't everyone, but a great majority of them. How many of you knew about First Fridays in 5-Points? I'm in that part of town almost every single day. I frequent the businesses and restaurants as if I were still a Riverside resident, and I only found out about it a month ago...by accident it seems as the small advertising card was pushed to the backside of the register completely out of view for any customers at this particular store. When I inquired about it, I was greeted with a roll of the eyes and an, "oh, yeah...that's just some thing that some one came up with."
Bottom-line, some people in that area are just going to have to be more open to change and the addition of businesses that want to make a profit and bring a more diverse group of people into the area (and in this case that means yuppies). They need to take a look down the street at Margaret, and take a hint at what's going on. No, that doesn't mean they have to compromise who they are, just be a little smarter about it. Hell, they could even take a queue from King and Park, which has 2 new restaurants opening here shortly as well as the addition of City Cycle (moved from 5-points), which still has the bohemian feel to it, but values customers and markets to people who are willing to come in and actually pay for something.
Oh, and as far as Ragland's....love the food, but the decor and the feel of the place is horrible. I'm glad they've recognized this and are doing something about it. I wish they would've hired a professional to help though, or maybe he/she knows a thing about interior design? Hope so. Until then, I'll just keep getting my burgers to-go to keep from feeling like I'm eating in my Grandmother's basement, lol ;)
QuoteHell, they could even take a queue from King and Park, which has 2 new restaurants opening here shortly as well as the addition of City Cycle
What are the two new restaurants and where, on the strip, will they be located?
Quote from: thelakelander on February 04, 2008, 02:39:51 PM
QuoteHell, they could even take a queue from King and Park, which has 2 new restaurants opening here shortly as well as the addition of City Cycle
What are the two new restaurants and where, on the strip, will they be located?
They are directly on the strip in the Whiteway building. One is ready to open this week I believe...dont' quote me on that, and is an Italian restaurant. By the looks of the interior, it's going to be more of a $$-$$$ place. The other restaurant is next to the Italian place and is a sushi restaurant. I know, I know, there are lots of them in Riverside, but for the people who live closer to King and Park, this is great. Now, they can walk to get sushi instead of driving or riding their bikes down to Margaret. I want to say both restaurants occupy the space that was previously occupied by Curves. I'm not sure of the names. I'll have to call my people and have them walk over there and take a look-see ;)
there are some very interesting things going on in this thread.
yes, unfortunately time warp did close. the eviction went down a week ago, yet it had to come to the landlords having the locks changed. wendy and phil were apparently in complete denial that they were really getting kicked out. this was not the first time that they had been behind on rent. a source said that she was constantly late on rent and often got behind a month or two... this had been a long time coming! i know for a fact that she still had a pretty decent rent since she had been there so long. and to make matters worse, it was poorly merchandised and filthy.
as for the mugging, it's so hard to know what to believe. also, why would she not dipute the $20,000 worth of charges? i'm not sure what bank she has but you can fight fraudulent charges. and it's sad to say, but the JSO has no record of a mugging in the riverside publix parking lot the night of wendys incident.
while i think wendy is a very sweet person, she also has a really hard time telling the truth and tends to embellish quite a bit. the article that shelton wrote in folio about her a few weeks back was disgustingly one sided and full of bull. to start with, if wendy would be open consistent normal business hours instead of putting daily notes on her door and leaving for hours on end. i don't think you build clientèle by leaving "call me if you need something and i'll come back." signs for potential customers. so basically, it was great while it lasted but she had been on a downward spiral for a while.
now, on to first fridays. this event has been going on since october but was on hiatus during january and february. it's launch in october was doomed from bad rains and band cancellations. there have been other bumps in the road, but for march there are lots of exciting events going on for first friday. art installations, bands food and hopefully a locally sponsored FREE (it has been $5 w/o a business sponsorship) movie will be shown in the theater. lets just remember, it took art walk a good 2 years to really get going like it is now. the point of First Fridays in Five Points is to just offer a fun FREE activity for all!
i also really think it would be great if springfield became it's own unique district but as of now, the rents aren't heap enough for jacksonville's cool counterclulture to afford. the buildings are dilapidated commercial buildings offer no refuge from the rising rents in 5 points. i'm just sick of the focus being on "5 points is so empty"... blah blah blah... it may not be at 100% capacity right now, but there are lots of people opening things with a fresh take on the area. someone was scouting out a potential gallery housing mainly local artists works, in the former time warp spot. NEST, a modern is set to open in march in 1/2 of the former URBANE unit. a wall is currently being built to divide the units. i heard there are talks that chew is looking to open a "chew express." not sure how true that is. plus, there are lots of quality stores in the area right now that really are an assets to the community.
moral of this post... don't give up on 5 points... there are lots of exciting things going on.
Quote from: second_pancake on February 04, 2008, 02:26:43 PM
There is also something unique to 5-points in regard to the existing, and longtime business owners. The majority of them don't care about turning a dollar. They are not willing to participate in projects to clean-up common areas, contribute to activities to draw new customers, or collaborate with one another coming up with ideas to help generate business.
Which are you talking about? While there might be some that don't participate in events, I doubt the majority of the businesses in five points are owned by independently wealthy folk like on the other side of the river...
FPJ
Quote from: fpj on February 07, 2008, 04:02:15 PM
Quote from: second_pancake on February 04, 2008, 02:26:43 PM
There is also something unique to 5-points in regard to the existing, and longtime business owners. The majority of them don't care about turning a dollar. They are not willing to participate in projects to clean-up common areas, contribute to activities to draw new customers, or collaborate with one another coming up with ideas to help generate business.
Which are you talking about? While there might be some that don't participate in events, I doubt the majority of the businesses in five points are owned by independently wealthy folk like on the other side of the river...
FPJ
You don't really expect me to name names? I'm not saying they're "independently wealthy", I'm saying they don't care about making money. Their needs are simple and they live simply. I think that's a great philosophy, however, why have a store front if you're not going to do anything with it but be content with making just enough to pay for food? Btw, I'm speaking specifically of Park St. between Post and Lomax. Honestly, the feeling I've gotten is they're afraid of success and what it means for that area and themselves. They dont' want to draw people from various walks of life or suburban areas because they'll spend money. More money spent means more profit for them which in their minds equals more headache and more responsibility.
Quote from: second_pancake on February 08, 2008, 09:15:05 AM
Quote from: fpj on February 07, 2008, 04:02:15 PM
Quote from: second_pancake on February 04, 2008, 02:26:43 PM
There is also something unique to 5-points in regard to the existing, and longtime business owners. The majority of them don't care about turning a dollar. They are not willing to participate in projects to clean-up common areas, contribute to activities to draw new customers, or collaborate with one another coming up with ideas to help generate business.
Which are you talking about? While there might be some that don't participate in events, I doubt the majority of the businesses in five points are owned by independently wealthy folk like on the other side of the river...
FPJ
You don't really expect me to name names? I'm not saying they're "independently wealthy", I'm saying they don't care about making money. Their needs are simple and they live simply. I think that's a great philosophy, however, why have a store front if you're not going to do anything with it but be content with making just enough to pay for food? Btw, I'm speaking specifically of Park St. between Post and Lomax. Honestly, the feeling I've gotten is they're afraid of success and what it means for that area and themselves. They dont' want to draw people from various walks of life or suburban areas because they'll spend money. More money spent means more profit for them which in their minds equals more headache and more responsibility.
There are a lot of "existing and longtime" business owners between Post and Lomax on Park that are doing everything they can to draw people from all walks of life to the block, so, actually, yes, I do expect you to name names. Otherwise, this was just another one of those "they" posts that doesn't do anything but throw broad strokes about with no means of getting results.
FPJ
I can tell you those that are making an effort...Violet, City Cycle (they're moving though), and the new gift shop next to City Cycle, and Edge City. Ragland's seems to want to make a change personally, which is good, but what I'm talking about is a collective effort between all merchants to take action by contributing time, money and resources. When you have a business owner who pays for a street cleaner out of their own pocket to help vaccum up all the cigarette butts in teh area as well as install butt cans, and no one else even uses the thing or puts out the cans, that's called not contributing and being indifferent. When you have a merchant to uses his/her only day off to put up Christmas lights around every single light post in the area for the holidays and no one is there to help despite him/her asking for it and then having to take them all down his/her self as well, that is also not contributing and/or being indifferent. I could go on and on...I already mentioned the beat-cop. We could also talk about the merchants giving handouts to the homeless and allowing them to hang out in front of their stores. While that draws a crowd, it's not quite the crowd most business owners would want in front of their stores. That's why I say I don't understand the mentality of "them".
Quote from: second_pancake on February 08, 2008, 11:44:47 AM
I can tell you those that are making an effort...Violet, City Cycle (they're moving though), and the new gift shop next to City Cycle, and Edge City. Ragland's seems to want to make a change personally, which is good, but what I'm talking about is a collective effort between all merchants to take action by contributing time, money and resources. When you have a business owner who pays for a street cleaner out of their own pocket to help vaccum up all the cigarette butts in teh area as well as install butt cans, and no one else even uses the thing or puts out the cans, that's called not contributing and being indifferent. When you have a merchant to uses his/her only day off to put up Christmas lights around every single light post in the area for the holidays and no one is there to help despite him/her asking for it and then having to take them all down his/her self as well, that is also not contributing and/or being indifferent. I could go on and on...I already mentioned the beat-cop. We could also talk about the merchants giving handouts to the homeless and allowing them to hang out in front of their stores. While that draws a crowd, it's not quite the crowd most business owners would want in front of their stores. That's why I say I don't understand the mentality of "them".
I've not seen any butt cans in ages, so I don't know when/if that happened recently, but regardless, from what I've seen, smokers are the same all over the Jax and you will see cigarette butts cast all over public places, especially now that more places are non-smoking and smokers now congregate outside the various entrances. No amount of butt cans will ever change that behavior. Dash outside, puff, flick, dash back inside. Lather rinse repeat.
As for merchants giving handouts, I couldn't agree more. "Don't feed the animals" comes politically incorrectly to mind: if people didn't give the homeless money, they'd move on to better more fertile grounds, maybe further west into Avondale j/k. With that in mind, however, if you talk with the merchants you praise above, you will find that some have in fact "hired" the homeless for the chores mentioned.
Also, it was a shame that Christmas lights weren't put up this past year at all, so I guess you were talking about some year prior. I think this was probably the first year Tammie didn't decorate the blinking light but given her shop closing, I can understand. It is nice seeing her up at Ragland's slinging hash like Flo though!
There is a big contrast between Park/King and Post/Park/Lomax. I am sure Five Points wishes they had First Guarantee Bank as their merchants association benefactor, even though they were pretty much behind kicking the Art Bar out of the area.
I remember an "Officer Mike" and the various cops that were outside Club Five in its heyday, but when was that merchant-paid beat cop you mentioned last on the block?
FPJ
QuoteI've not seen any butt cans in ages
Exactly. The merchant I know paid for cans and brought it up at a merchant's meeting suggesting that the place would be a little cleaner if everyone put them outside their stores or at least in the general vicinity. They scoffed at the idea which is why there was only ever one outside of anyone's store...my friend's store.
QuoteWith that in mind, however, if you talk with the merchants you praise above, you will find that some have in fact "hired" the homeless for the chores mentioned.
I'm not praising anyone (except one in particular that for whom I'm biased I suppose), just saying that the stores I've mentioned at least have displayed somewhat of a business-owner mentality in that they appear to want to turn a profit.
I'm actually surprised that the 5-points homeless people were willing to work, lol. Hmm, now that I think about it, it makes perfect sense why the merchants relate so well with the homeless there since neither is interested in working for a dollar ;)
Quoteit was a shame that Christmas lights weren't put up this past year at all, so I guess you were talking about some year prior.
Yes, not '07, but in '06, my friend personally decorated all the lamp posts in 5-points with the help of one other person (whom he paid) that is NOT a business owner. Since no one, again, was willing to help and the funds weren't available to pay someone to do it, nor was the time available...my friend is after all trying to run a business, it wasn't done.
Quotewhen was that merchant-paid beat cop you mentioned last on the block?
About 2 years ago. He'd circle the block and/or walk around a bit and chase off any loitering vagrants. When my friend couldn't pay any longer, it stopped. Last year, my friend was coming early to work and had a knife pulled on him while in the parking lot. He was far enough away that he was able to mace the guy and get away. He called the police and it took them over 30 minutes to get to the scene and take down his report.
On another occasion, he came in to work around 4am to see several Jags players (who had just finished partying at an event held at the 5-points theatre), outside acting crazy and taking turns having sex with a woman on top of parked cars in complete public view. Classy.
If the merchants don't care, why should anyone else?
Quote from: second_pancake on February 13, 2008, 09:08:16 AM
On another occasion, he came in to work around 4am to see several Jags players (who had just finished partying at an event held at the 5-points theatre) outside acting crazy and taking turns having sex with a woman on top of parked cars in complete public view. Classy.
And where was his camera phone? A couple snaps of this and the Five Points Area Merchants Association would have been fully funded for decades ;D
FPJ
Quote from: fpj on February 13, 2008, 10:58:00 AM
Quote from: second_pancake on February 13, 2008, 09:08:16 AM
On another occasion, he came in to work around 4am to see several Jags players (who had just finished partying at an event held at the 5-points theatre) outside acting crazy and taking turns having sex with a woman on top of parked cars in complete public view. Classy.
And where was his camera phone? A couple snaps of this and the Five Points Area Merchants Association would have been fully funded for decades ;D
FPJ
ROFLMAO! I SAID THE SAME THING!!!!
As far as the butt cans are concerned, many of the merchants have learned to refer to them as "bum magnets"
Alva's got it right here. Just look at the butt can on top of the trash can at Walgreens at Park & King. It's their favorite place to go. It's constantly flicked open and the butts with no cig left are thrown on the ground while they pick out the ones with any smokeability left in them.
As a regular (and a smoker) it does kinda tick me off to see the butts all over the ground. Luckily most of the places I frequent I can smoke in so it's not an issue.
And why wouldn't every district have a problem with the bums? It's a social problem that's only grown in recent years. It's gotten progressively worse in Riverside since the superbowl when they shuffled all of them out of down town only for new bums to move in to the urban core. The ones pushed out of downtown were a whole new set of crazy compared to the ones we had before.
I'm entirely against the hiring of bums for chores or what have you. Yeah I want them to get a leg up. But the ones that are hired in riverside will actually panhandle in the place while the clean up. It's ridiculous.
Downtown has something Riverside and Avondale do not - Salvation Army and its walls of beds.
I can say without a doubt that Fuel has closed and that they were evicted. They were evicted in February. Don't believe me? www.duvalclerk.com -> court records -> public access -> search for "fuel coffeehouse" in the last name search field.
Followed your instructions, and I don't see anything related to Fuel Coffeehouse in the court records...
How about a case number?
My bad, here ya go... in the first field of the search menu (case #) 2008 - CA - 016304
Quote from: thelakelander on February 01, 2008, 10:38:17 AM
Gentrification...
Shantytown, Boomtown and the Pearl seem to be doing good in Springfield. What will it take to get the Five Points crowd over to Main Street? What's the biggest obstacle? Is it leasing rates, available buildings, building conditions or a mixture of all three?
What's the biggest obstacle?
NO STREETCARS!OCKLAWAHA
I'm with OCK...If I had a trolley to get from 5-points to Main to have a few beers without changing buses and waiting 50 minutes between them I would.
I will not run the "JSO DUI GAUNTLET" ever again (Permanent damage done here). We are forced to either drive impaired,watch others enjoy COLD enticing adult beverages right in front of us :P or stay home and cry in our PBR's.
This is the primary reason I tend not to go over to The Pearl where most of my friends are. If public transportation were worth a darn in this city I'd do it. I'm not going to risk my life/license driving impaired when I can ride my bike up to 5-points and hang out. I like to drink, but what I'm not all about is having a bunch of drunks behind the wheel.
Easy public transit would definitely help.
My girlfriend seems to be excited for a craft night at Anomaly where people can get together make hand bags jewlery etc. and have few drinks while doing so.
http://anomalyfivepoints.blogspot.com/ (http://anomalyfivepoints.blogspot.com/)
Quote from: Ernest Street on April 08, 2009, 02:08:17 PM
I'm with OCK...If I had a trolley to get from 5-points to Main to have a few beers without changing buses and waiting 50 minutes between them I would.
I will not run the "JSO DUI GAUNTLET" ever again (Permanent damage done here). We are forced to either drive impaired,watch others enjoy COLD enticing adult beverages right in front of us :P or stay home and cry in our PBR's.
JSO is a DUI mill, it's ridiculous. I know someone who blew a "0.00", but the state attorney went to trial anyway, using the video evidence of the suspect trying to stumble through field sobriety exercises wearing women's midrise heels. They don't care, it's a profit center, they make so much money off it. So, obviously, you shouldn't drive drunk, but if you are ever caught in an unfortunate situation, here are some things to remember:
1: Refuse to answer any questions at the scene, other than the bare minimum needed to identify yourself and provide your license and insurance card to the officer. If he asks if you've had anything to drink, ALWAYS say "NO".
2: Demand to know the Officer's justification for the stop. If it's one of the many local DUI taskforce units, he's got a mic and dashcam that are recording what both of you say. This will come in handy later.
3: Refuse the field sobriety tests. You are not required by law to participate in those, and there is no penalty for refusal. While refusing a "Blood, Breath, or Urine test" can open you up to a misdemeanor refusal charge, that does NOT apply to the field sobriety exercises. So no sense in creating more evidence against yourself, right?
4: If after you refuse the exercises, the officer approaches you with a field breath-meter, state loudly (so his dashcam and mic pick it up) that you have asthma and cannot use the device. State loudly you are willing to take a blood or urine test. This will seal the deal, since there is no way to conduct those on-scene.
This will put the officer in the position of having to arrest you or let you go, based solely on the evidence he has at that point (which won't be much, since you refused the exercises). If he arrests you, you are now in a position to argue over the probable cause for the stop, and separately you're also in a great position to argue over PC for the arrest.
Remember, if he lacked PC for the arrest (which he likely will, if you refuse the sobriety exercises), then any blood, urine, or breath test done afterwards is inadmissible.
90% of DUI cases are made on the basis of the video-taped field sobriety exercises, the breathalyzer results, and all the dumb $h!t people say to the officer. So, don't be an idiot behind the wheel, obviously. But if they try to run you through the DUI mill after a routine traffic stop, then there's no need to build their case for them.
^ it's gonna be hard to remember all of that next time I'm driving drunk! j/k...i dont do that.
I'm printing it on an index card & taping it to my visor! ;)
Quote1: Refuse to answer any questions at the scene, other than the bare minimum needed to identify yourself and provide your license and insurance card to the officer. If he asks if you've had anything to drink, ALWAYS say "NO".
2: Demand to know the Officer's justification for the stop. If it's one of the many local DUI taskforce units, he's got a mic and dashcam that are recording what both of you say. This will come in handy later.
3: Refuse the field sobriety tests. You are not required by law to participate in those, and there is no penalty for refusal. While refusing a "Blood, Breath, or Urine test" can open you up to a misdemeanor refusal charge, that does NOT apply to the field sobriety exercises. So no sense in creating more evidence against yourself, right?
4: If after you refuse the exercises, the officer approaches you with a field breath-meter, state loudly (so his dashcam and mic pick it up) that you have asthma and cannot use the device. State loudly you are willing to take a blood or urine test. This will seal the deal, since there is no way to conduct those on-scene.
Since Chris and I are both lawyers, this advice is worth what you paid for it....
Do not drive drunk, the cab is a better ride than a $10,000 defense, and whenever I see my judge I still rub his smug face in it. Thank you Fl state supreme court.
Many JSO cruisers Mics and Cameras do not work, at all. So if you are lucky, maybe your cruiser is broken. All JSO, when they catch you, are told to arrest you. Just put on the cuffs, be polite, DO NOT CURSE at them, they write EVERYTHING DOWN you say, and sit there in the cruiser long enough for your hands to swell with the cuffs on them. BE POLITE, it goes a long way.
When you get to the station, decline to blow. Sure its a 90 day suspension of the license, but its far better than spend 10k to defend yourself. When you blow, Corey has you by the short ones. That number is what the judges use in 99% of the cases against you. If over the .08, I don't care if you have the winning lottery numbers, you are done.
The process is a good 6-9 months, even longer for most. So if you want to spend 10k on 8 hours of incarceration (state law says DUI must spend at least 8 hours in the "tank"), and have a nasty rash from the prison uniform (you wonder if they ever wash them), go drive drunk. Otherwise, get the cab, save yourself from danger and possibly hurting someone else. Know what you are getting into. This ain't no simple traffic ticket, this is a misdemeanor or felony (if you hit someone or something).
Remember, you can't take it back.
How you liking Corey so far? I hear it's really turning into the gestapo over there...
Also, yeah, FWIW, the easiest way out of a DUI is obviously not to drive drunk. Can't not agree with that.
Im new to Jax(moved here from Louisville, KY) and am thinking of opening a Retro 1930's through 60's style Rockabilly Barber Shop. Full with straight razor Shave's, pomps, flat tops, mowhawks, as well as current trends and artistic styles(think Hawley wood's out of California style place. Ive heard that the points is similiar to the Highlands in Louisville. The plan is to get something going over the next six months- a year. Do you think it would go over well or Do you think now is not the time? Trying to get some feed back from those of you twho have been there for awhile and actually dont mind leaving suburbia to venture into the city. Anyway any feedback would be great.
Thanks
Farrell Stephens
I would stop in once a week for a straight razor shave.
Go for it. And do it in 5 Points. I've been missing Frank's since he retired. Nothing fancy, just old school.
Riverside or Springfield would be the place to open, if you choose to. Riverside has that kinda vibe and has several popular commecial areas. Springfield is being renovated and has a growing commerical area with that customer base type as well.
So where was this barber named Frank's Shop? Is it still there or did it get occupied by another person or shop? Would be awsome to find a place that was already a previous barber shop. Any info on that?
Thasnks for the feed back guy's
A guy had one of these downtown one of the Carling store fronts). It was very cool, but he didnt get enough business to stay open
There is a place at 5th and Main that was a barbershop previously. The space is empty and the owner is showing some interest in renting.
Know the exact address of said barber shop on fifth street, maybe who to contact about possably renting said shop? If you could pm me the info it would be greatly appreciated. I may be looking to move sooner than expected. Like within a month or so. Going into a previously occupied space that is plumbed and has electrical makes me move much much quicker. I already have my retro chairs. I would prefer to be in the Park Arcade Bldg. or close to the five points.
The perfect place would be right next to a tattoo shop, a coffee house, vintage clothing store, vintage and new music store, and a used book store. Throw in a fifty's diner and some other mom and pop greasy spoons etc . Maybe a Play house and old movie theatre. Close down the streets at night every weekend and have a festival. That would be heaven
Another question:
What is the rent range in 5 points per sq ft retail space and what is the average in Springfield?
Thanks so much.
Farrell Stephens
QuoteThe perfect place would be right next to a tattoo shop, a coffee house, vintage clothing store, vintage and new music store, and a used book store. Throw in a fifty's diner and some other mom and pop greasy spoons etc . Maybe a Play house and old movie theatre. Close down the streets at night every weekend and have a festival. That would be heaven
What you've described is 5 points almost exactly.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 08, 2009, 10:49:05 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 01, 2008, 10:38:17 AM
Gentrification...
Shantytown, Boomtown and the Pearl seem to be doing good in Springfield. What will it take to get the Five Points crowd over to Main Street? What's the biggest obstacle? Is it leasing rates, available buildings, building conditions or a mixture of all three?
What's the biggest obstacle?
NO STREETCARS!
OCKLAWAHA
Where the City doesn't step up is an opening for business idea's. In Louisville a guy bought an old Fire Truck(1940's) put a pool in the back part where the ladders where and people could rent it for the night. Complete with driver. Another guy bought bus and called it the party bus. The bus would travel between the bar's on a rotation. $20 bucks got a wristband and it had regular stops. Another started up something called city scooot. With city-scoop with a call to them they sent out a guy on a fold up scooter that would fit in your trunk and he would drive you home then scoot to the next drunken person. Anyhoo food for thought to all you would be entrepenuer's.
So uhh.. apparently Starlight is closed. Only heard a little of the drama so I won't perpetuate. But I do have a feeling it won't be gone for long.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on July 10, 2009, 11:07:57 AM
So uhh.. apparently Starlight is closed. Only heard a little of the drama so I won't perpetuate. But I do have a feeling it won't be gone for long.
When did this happen?? ???
Hmmm...it was open at around 8:30 last night when I walked in there. It was dead, but open.
File this under "Rumors of my demise..."
" The Starlite Cafe' is NOT CLOSING!!!
Recently there has been a rumor spreading that The Starlite Cafe' is closing.
This is NOT TRUE!
I think this started with a missunderstanding. What we will be doing is closing on MONDAYS ONLY for the next few weeks to finish some of the renovations that have been started. After that we'll be back in action 7 days a week. "
Quote from: stephendare on February 01, 2008, 01:41:30 PM
When we first opened in Five Points (1991) there were several options.
Fusion Coffeehouse (my place), Heartworks (Elaine Wheeler's landmark), Club Five (owned by the Schultz brothers, Cliff and John), Oppenheimer's Kit Kat Club (me and David Smith's place) The Abyss (the back bar at five points---designed by yours truly) and of course, the never ending street parties.
Wow stephendare... now I feel like I missed out on one hell of a party stomping ground!!
Starlite has a new owner (whatshername from Art Bar & The Pearl fame)...went there last night and it is in the beginning phases of being remodeled. Its already cleaner and smells better...will be interesting to see what it ends up looking like. I enjoyed the iPod mix last night...Pixies, Dinosaur Jr., At The Drive-In, etc. Now if only they'd brighten up the beer selection with something interesting. =)