Inside the Ford Motor Company Assembly Plant
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3555-p1080148.JPG)
Metro Jacksonville takes a look inside of one of the urban core's largest industrial ruins: The Ford Motor Company Assembly Plant.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/703
It would be a wondrous thing, to see that building renovated and illuminated at night.
Ford once had several dozen of these plants around the country.
If you went to an old abandoned place like this in Jersey, you would always get the feeling you were gonna find a body or two......and hey sometimes you would!...it was creepy even looking at these photos.
The slab is supported by concrete piers and pile caps. Those are supported by groups of wooden piles.
In other words, there's a crawl space below the slab.
There was a lot of light in the place, due to all the windows and skylights it had. I've explored a good number of abandoned buildings and I'd say the Park View Inn was one of the creepiest in Jax.
Inside The Park View Inn: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/344/117/ (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/344/117/)
This would have been awesome for the the farmers market.
With all that open space and those great skylights, I'd like to see a commercial only complex that included an open-air market. What's the one in San Franciso? You know, on the bay where it's all open, but when you walk inside there are several little shops and booths kind of like kiosks or something and then some closed off restaurants. That would really be cool...kind of a urban mall of sorts. We could even give it a name like, The Plant, or The Shoppes at F.M. CAP ;D If it were kept all commercial then there would be less work involved in restoration and you wouldn't need to worry about long-term parking. On a smaller scale, there's the old slave sales place in Charleston, SC on the river. The closest thing we have to anything like that right now is The Landing. If this place were built up as a commercial space, it would throw some competition their way and we'd see The Landing improve as well, which will only benefit Jax even more ;D
I agree with Pancake. If done right correctly it would put the Landing to shame.
This looks like it is in Talleyrand...But I can't tell exactly. This is my first time seeing this building. Good work MJ.C
If you want to see the building, cross the Mathews Bridge from Arlington, and as you cross the top of the span, look down to your right (ideally when someone else is driving)
The old pier is slowly giving way at the East end. Now they have stored 45 foot semi trailers just inside the wall and a few feet beyond the "DANGER KEEP OUT" part of the caving pier. INTENTIONAL? (your call).
The place is nearly under the West approach to the Matthews Bridge and a couple of blocks up a narrow, ugly industrial lane.
Will the new bridge bring it down? Will someone realize it's value? Could we create an entry grand enough to bring people that far from the activity centers of Stadium, Metropolitan Park etc??
Dead Body? In Jacksonville? You are kidding right NJtoJax? Hell Lake and I counted at least 24 of them in there, besides the one that chased us out of the old vault.
The vault was cool. The upstairs bathrooms were cool too, what a hell of a place to stick a bathroom.
I don't think commercial value would ever fly until retail/office overtakes the bend in the river at the Matthews in 4045. Until then, what comes to mind (if it doesn't all fall into the river) is maritime or transportation museum. It's sure big enough to hold (at the same time) a mock Ford Assembly line, a complete train, A B-25, 747 and the Graf Zeppelin, Trolley Barns or displays and Naval, Merchant Marine displays and ships on 3 sides. Not unlike PS-4 Annie Lytle, IF (a HUGE IF) anything this big ever developed in Jacksonville, and the Skyway reached the Stadium district, that or Streetcar might be an ideal way to tie it to downtown. (BTW, there once was an East Bay and a Talleyrand Streetcar route.)
Ocklawaha
Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 30, 2008, 10:25:11 PM
The old pier is slowly giving way at the East end. Now they have stored 45 foot semi trailers just inside the wall and a few feet beyond the "DANGER KEEP OUT" part of the caving pier. INTENTIONAL? (your call).
The place is nearly under the West approach to the Matthews Bridge and a couple of blocks up a narrow, ugly industrial lane.
Will the new bridge bring it down? Will someone realize it's value? Could we create an entry grand enough to bring people that far from the activity centers of Stadium, Metropolitan Park etc??
Dead Body? In Jacksonville? You are kidding right NJtoJax? Hell Lake and I counted at least 24 of them in there, besides the one that chased us out of the old vault.
The vault was cool. The upstairs bathrooms were cool too, what a hell of a place to stick a bathroom.
I don't think commercial value would ever fly until retail/office overtakes the bend in the river at the Matthews in 4045. Until then, what comes to mind (if it doesn't all fall into the river) is maritime or transportation museum. It's sure big enough to hold (at the same time) a mock Ford Assembly line, a complete train, A B-25, 747 and the Graf Zeppelin, Trolley Barns or displays and Naval, Merchant Marine displays and ships on 3 sides. Not unlike PS-4 Annie Lytle, IF (a HUGE IF) anything this big ever developed in Jacksonville, and the Skyway reached the Stadium district, that or Streetcar might be an ideal way to tie it to downtown. (BTW, there once was an East Bay and a Talleyrand Streetcar route.)
Ocklawaha
Thanks Ock! Good Stuff. I love reading your post man. You have much knowledge.
These kinds of Industrial Era relics are so different from the paper-mache buildings we have nowadays that it really is a shame that something like this might go unused or even be allowed to fall apart. The light looks amazing! OKL also hinted at the need for retail/office (ie urban stuff) to wrap the bend to make this area viable. There are lots of great examples of industrial building being converted for modern uses but its hard to ask people to live/work in a shipping yard. Will Jax ever be able to occupy that great river-front property for HUMAN use!!?? Another model is something like DIA Beacon (http://www.diabeacon.org/ (http://www.diabeacon.org/)) that is completely disconnected from the nearest city's (NY) urban core but, by having great art and some visionary supporters, they were able to revive an old factory and even some of the local community. There is of course rail transportation right there - imagine that: rail spreading the wealth!
Massive building! It would be neat to see this and many of the other old unused buildings be refurbished in to something practical. I would hope theyd rather renovate than let the structure fall into the river. That would cost alot more to clean up.
Question is how do you actually get in there and shoot some decent photos without getting into trouble. WOuld love to have some photos of the whole place before they decide to just let it go. I do hope they would allow the public to vist since it's historic site. Also who do you contact for something like that?
One can do a search through the property appraisers office or the Court House. Another possible site is the JEDC on line site, with the GIS mapping under services. As the scale of the map gets larger, their are more and more "Toys" to play with, layers and other cool details that one can select, So you could go from map to detailed block map, to even more detailed lot map, flood plain layers, then with a click, go to photo image, and lot Id and owner...
Another way is shoot the photos from public access. A sidewalk or road in front, back or side often gives great views of the whole place.
Also, walk right in, past the NO TRESPASSING sign to the nearest gatehouse, guard or office you see. Go in and tell them THE TRUTH... Just learn to add or delete to suit your needs... For example "Javier" is a shoe sales clerk at a local Wal Mart Store, he might get transferred to the stock room with a 10 cent raise. He's a happy man and loves to photograph old buildings.
Javier walks up to a guard and asks to see the plant manager... "Oh Mr. Plant isn't in today, but young J.D. is." So we wait for J. D. and he finally shows up. Stand up, walk up and shake his hand. "J. D. I work with the Wal Mart Corporation out of Bentonville, Arkansas, and am moving into their transportation and logistics systems division soon. I was driving by and saw your rail siding and thought it looked like a perfect model for something I have been telling them about... Would you mind if I took a couple of snap shots of the building, and it's relation to the railroad?"
Next, is Frank. Frank is a homeless guy that works enough to buy the next bottle of dinner and loves to shoot film for his laptop, plugged in behind the Prime Osbourne, under the bridge in a tent! Frank was once big on Computers and loves his building photos. He shows up at the gate which is fenced, guarded and photographed. "Hi I'm Frank, I study photography and have some ideas for new digital images of our City Buildings. Forgive my appearance but we've been working with the homeless all day and I've been asked to photograph anyplace that looks like it might develop a problem with these sort of people. Do y'all have a problem with people in the property?
Well, you get the idea, just fit the conversation to the problem and tackle it like your life or job depends on it. If they give permission with strings attached, "Okay, but stay away from XXX or don't photograph the trucks or... " RESPECT THEIR WISHES.
In any and all cases, "TAKE NOTHING BUT PICTURES AND LEAVE NOTHING BUT FOOTPRINTS...."
Ockalwaha
Your pictures took my breath away. I've always looked at that while riding over the Mathew's(Matthews?) Bridge and wondered what it was. Thankyou SO MUCH for sharing
My family owned--or at least rented--this facility in the 1970s and early 1980s. My grandfather's business, the Otis C. Borum Boat company, or just Borum Boats, manufactured hundreds of fibreglas boats during that time with a staff of a few dozen workers (including my dad, who was the lead draftsman).
I remember visiting this building as a kid and my brother and I would have so much fun exploring the parts of it that Granddad didn't use. Back in the 70s it wasn't in such bad repair since Ford had only shut it down a few years prior. Borum Boats used the showroom space and the manufacturing floor and kept it all pretty well-maintained. I used to be so proud to see our name on the huge "BORUM BOATS, INC." sign that used to be face out towards the Matthews Bridge every time we drove over.
Anyway, it's a terrible shame that it has become so ruined in the years since we gave it up. I no longer live in Jacksonville, but a space like this one is the ideal type of space for a public art gallery or exhibition hall for special events. It's too bad the Talleyrand area in general is so industrial that it isn't very appealing to the general public. Still, I'd love to see the building restored (at least partially) and preserved for a more useful purpose.
Pictures courtesy of Old Arlington Inc. web site at http://oldarlington.org/GP-CP-FordPlant01.php :
(http://oldarlington.org/images/Photos-Generation/CP/FordPlant-Aerial-c1930-640x480.png)
(http://oldarlington.org/images/Photos-Generation/CP/FordPlant-Front-640x469.png)
(http://oldarlington.org/images/Photos-Generation/CP/FordPlant-AssemblyLine-640x505.png)
Quote from: willydenn on January 29, 2008, 07:26:14 PM
I agree with Pancake. If done right correctly it would put the Landing to shame.
Doubt it. This place is isolated and cut off from everything. The Landing is in a prime location with access views to freindship fountain, three bridges, and most of the southbank. Beautiful at night.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 29, 2008, 09:02:29 AM
There was a lot of light in the place, due to all the windows and skylights it had. I've explored a good number of abandoned buildings and I'd say the Park View Inn was one of the creepiest in Jax.
Inside The Park View Inn: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/344/117/ (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/344/117/)
I got about 50+ pictures of my time exploring that, that was much fun
I'd love to see an aquarium, or some kind of public attraction....but doubt if anything ever happens with it. :-\
Check out the oil or fuel pollution coming from the plant...
(http://oldarlington.org/images/Photos-Generation/CP/FordPlant-Aerial-c1930-640x480.png)
Was the assembly plant built on the riverfront because the parts came in by barge? I presume that the assembled trucks went out by rail or under their own power. Were other Ford assembly plants also built on the water?
My father was in his teens during Prohibition and lived just off Tallyrand. He told stories of brewing up homemade wine, putting the bottles in a red wagon and selling it to the workers at this plant during their lunch break. He bought his first, very used, car with the proceeds.
I know of some due diligence investigation into turning this into loft apartments, but I think it died. It is just too burried into the Talleyrand industrial area.
Quote from: Overstreet on July 30, 2009, 09:05:43 AM
I know of some due diligence investigation into turning this into loft apartments, but I think it died. It is just too burried into the Talleyrand industrial area.
Yeah that's the thing, because of it's location I can't imagine anybody wanting to live there. The whole area is heavy industrial. If the entire zone were tackled and converted at once, that might work, but I can't see anybody buying an apartment next to factories and shipping centers.
I personally think it would make a great Jax / North FL historical museum. Throw some old planes from the airfield, some old trains from the old station, and some old Fords from the plant along with thousands of photos and any and all historical items from Jax. Maybe a section devoted to the fire etc etc. Would make a great tourist attraction (though we don't get much, we always complain there is nothing for them to do).
What does the current Folio article say might happen with the property?
I don't have access to the article.
Being one of the explorers, my opinion is that it will be torn down. It's certainly not what I would want and the building is grand indeed, but it is buried. No matter what the "urban" use, the buyer or developer would have to buy out everything in front of it all the way to Talleyrand. There would almost have to be redevelopment of the Commodore Point area for Urban, Retail and Residential uses. At one time the streetcar line had 3 routes to Talleyrand, putting this in the middle of a historical area.
The negatives are that it is FAR from the downtown core, not walkable, hidden, not easily accessable, in a very industrially blighted neighborhood, along side a major expressway bridge, and MAYBE in the path of bridge or tunnel construction...
Other then that, it's beautiful.
OCKLAWAHA
Its got river frontage, rail access and surrounded by industrial warehousing and maritime uses. My prediction is that if it doesn't eventually fall down, it will be filled with an industrial/maritime related use. Btw, I attended a public workshop last month where the owners requested a land use change back to industrial (a decade or so ago the land use was changed to allow for lofts).
This email was just sent to Metro Jacksonville and I'd thought I'd share the link. The image is pretty impressive.
QuoteI just ran across your great pictorial web page of Fairfield showing the old Ford Assembly plant. My father worked at the plant and lived on Parker street where my older brother was born. By the time I came along, they had moved to Springfield.
I have a web page containing a full size image of a 9 x 40 photograph of all the employees standing in front of the plant. It is at: http://www.woodenshipsironmen.com/Ford.htm
J. G. (Jerry) Braddock Sr
http://www.woodenshipsironmen.com/Bradhome.htm
Incredible photo.
I wonder what the wooden structure to the south was?
Fantastic image!!
Wow! I had always heard that the plant was for Model T & A pickup trucks. Obviously not! If the plant opened in 1928, then my father was 18 or 19 when he started selling homemade wine to the workers. Naughty boy!
Very cool!
Model T
(http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/1/15/Late_model_Ford_Model_T.jpg)
Model A
(http://www.gallagher.com/ww2/images/model_a_ford_1_9.jpg)
Great photo. It brings to life an old building and shows just how great these buildings could look if restored to their "like new" condition. Lot's of potential. Would be criminal to lose it. I wonder if Ford would have any interest in partnering in its preservation. Maybe a "Ford Museum -South" for part of the building. Would be a great marketing tool.
Does anyone know who currently owns this building? I can not find it on the GIS map, the lot is there, but no building number or anything like that. I am interested in possibly buying the building but have had a hard time finding much info about it.
Thank you
Quote from: ftrosset on January 22, 2010, 05:12:44 PM
Does anyone know who currently owns this building? I can not find it on the GIS map, the lot is there, but no building number or anything like that. I am interested in possibly buying the building but have had a hard time finding much info about it.
Thank you
ftrosset, welcome to MJ.
Per the property tax rolls, the owner is:
HILL STREET LLC
P O BOX 1851
BAINBRIDGE, GA 39818
Property Site Address currently is shown as:
1900 WAMBOLT ST
Jacksonville FL 32202
Official Record Book/Page
10149-01373
I guess Wambolt St. was once called Hill Street since the MJ article says that's the historic address and the property owner references the same name.
According to the deed, Hill Street is a Florida corporation. Per Florida's Division of Corporations:
QuoteRegistered Agent Name & Address
DAWS, SONYA K
2878 REMINGTON GREEN CIRCLE
TALLAHASSEEE FL 32308 US
Name Changed: 10/11/2006
Address Changed: 01/27/2009
Manager/Member Detail
Name & Address
Title MGRM
REDMOND, N.D. JR.
1709 SHOTWELL ST.
BAINBRIDGE GA 39818
I guess if you can't find a phone number, you can send a letter to one of the addresses above and hope they answer.
Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
I have some information if you are interested...
are you associated with UNF?
According to Jacksonville’s Future Land Use Map (FLUM) Amendment (2/5/10):
“In 1999, William Stephenson, on behalf the Rowe Corporation, filed a land use amendment for the subject site to change its land use designation from WD/WR to GDC in order to accommodate a mixed use project including residential lofts. The PUD for the subject site in 1999 was never filed, and the mixed use project was never developed. As such, the subject site has been out of compliance with the current industrial use of the property, having a land use amendment attempts to remedy the compliance issue and return the subject site to its original WD/WR land use categoryâ€
The Planning Commission has recommended approval of this “re-change†in land use on 2/5/10.
http://citycirc.coj.net/coj/COJbillDetail.asp?F=2010-0016\Reports
Friday, April 9, 2010
UF students design cruise terminal for old Ford site
Jacksonville Business Journal - by Christian Conte Staff Writer
Read more: UF students design cruise terminal for old Ford site - Jacksonville Business Journal:
The former Ford assembly plant that sits at the base of the Mathews Bridge could one day be a cruise ship terminal and destination port, according to a study conducted by a group of students at the University of Florida.
A group of 16 students in the university’s College of Design, Construction and Planning department of interior design created design possibilities for the 86-year-old building that include 60,000 square feet of cruise ship terminal space, 50,000 square feet of boutique hotel space, 10,000 square feet of restaurant/lounge space and 40,000 square feet of what the students termed “wild card†space that included a variety of possible uses including a cinema, convention space and art display space.
Preliminary cost estimates for the project from cruise ship consultants are around $30 million.
The Jacksonville Port Authority is considering moving the cruise terminal at Dames Point to Mayport or two other unnamed sites east of the Dames Point Bridge. The authority needs a new terminal because the site of the present cruise terminal at Dames Point will become home to Hanjin Shipping Co.’s new container terminal.
About 80 percent of major cruise line ships can’t pass under Dames Point bridge and nearby wires, said port authority CEO Rick Ferrin.
Sonny Redmond, one of the partners in the investment group that owns the property, Hill Street LLC, said he hopes to use the students’ design suggestions as the basis for a future development plan for the site, but not unless he earns the support of the community for the idea.
“In order to have a project like this work, you have to have 100 percent support from all the stakeholders,†Redmond said.
The 165,000-square-foot facility is part of a 35-acre tract that Hill Street owns that stretches from the base of the bridge to Talleyrand Avenue. The facility was built for the Ford Motor Co. in 1924-25. It was used as an assembly plant until the mid-1930s and then for storage and shipping through the 1950s. Although the property has been through a succession of owners until Hill Street acquired it in 2001, it has continued to be leased out to various industrial users over the years.
Redmond said the group didn’t have any specific development plans for the property when it bought it, but when the president of the Florida chapter of the nonprofit group DOCOMOMO, which advocates for preserving historic structures, asked Assistant Professor Marty Hylton to have his students review the project as a possible cruise ship terminal, he decided to take him up on the offer.
The idea has already gotten the attention of some in the cruise ship industry. Mike Greve, president of the Miami cruise ship development consultation company Global Destinations, said he likes the site because of its history, because it is an existing building that would reduce the capital expense of construction and because it’s a Downtown site.
The owner of the property now plans to contract with Global Destinations to have the site evaluated and graded for its potential as a cruise ship terminal site. If it grades well, Redmond said the next step would be approaching the city about the idea.
Read more: UF students design cruise terminal for old Ford site - Jacksonville Business Journal:
A few period views...
(http://www.phleaze.com/www/OAI/images/Photos-Generation/CP/FordPlant-Aerial-c1930-640x480.png)
Easy to see that if the surrounding ugly industrial wasteland was cleared for a vintage style mixed use park/retail/residential district, it would be a better historical fit then the mess that is there today.
(http://www.phleaze.com/www/OAI/images/Photos-Generation/CP/FordPlant-AssemblyLine-640x505.png)
The old assembly line running full tilt.
(http://www.woodenshipsironmen.com/Fordtoday.jpg)
looking roughly Northeast, from the Southwest corner, one can see the old railroad siding that runs down the north side of the building, another siding runs through the large open door on the left side of the front of the building visible in this shot. Either or BOTH could easily be reactivated and with overhead electric catenary installed serve as the "CRUISE SHIP TERMINUS" of the revived "JACKSONVILLE TRACTION COMPANY" streetcar line.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/S8P5Xj4ezDI/AAAAAAAACN0/QuIzCZlrvcI/s400/FORD%20PLANT%20JAX.jpg)
Railroad cars in the background date this photo as fairly close to WWII, wood car construction with outside steel bracing was often termed "War Emergency Construction" and could date to WWI or II, however the trucks the cars are riding on put them in the more modern era. Also automobile cars changed around the time of WWII from those with small door to the larger "drive in" doors seen here. The next step were special boxcars with end doors much like modern "autorack cars". The cars were driven in and mechanically tilted on end to pack a maximum number per rail car. Beyond this in modern era we see the introduction of speciality cars built just for the auto trade.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/S8P5YKh8adI/AAAAAAAACN4/BP5SSlkyKzU/s400/FORD%20PLANT%20JAX%20II.jpg)
The Jacksonville Work Force showing off their newly won production award from Ford.
Announced on MAY 2, 1924, here are some of the spec's on the FORD plant...
PLANTS IN THE MAY 2 ANNOUNCEMENT, ALL NEW OR EXPANDED: PLANT/DAILY CAPACITY/EMPLOYEES/
St Paul/750 represents a 150% capacity expansion
Chicago/600 represents a 140% capacity expansion
Charlotte/300 Brand new plant/1200 employees
Memphis/300 represents a 200% capacity expansion
Kansas City/250 added for a total capacity of 500
Jacksonville/150 Brand new plant/600 employees
Oklahoma City/50 represents a 33% capacity expansion total daily capacity of 200
All plants follow the same basic design guidelines, single level with extensive glass in walls, roof for improved lighting, ventilation and ease of material handling. All plants operated with conveyors, with freight shipments entering on one side, and parts progressing across sub-assembly area's to the final assembly line. All plants include in addition to offices and showrooms, have attractive "car delivery rooms", and attractive "quarters," for both male and female drivers who come with the dealers to drive cars back to the dealerships. All buildings will be complimenting architecturally designed with fine landscaping.
CHARLOTTE'S new plant on 72 acres, 240,800 sq ft,
MEMPHIS expanded plant on 34 acres, same capabilities as Charlotte
JACKSONVILLE'S new plant is 200' x 560' feet, for 115,000 sq ft production area. The plant was modified in 1926 to produce 200 cars a day, and under Ford's design the original building was modified adding 240' on the dock without loss of a single day of production.
All plants have their own electric plant, with steam turbine generators, completely self sufficient power and light. Energy for the production line was electricity supplied by a Ford designed generator station. Powered by steam heated by fuel oil and used water filtered from the river. The steam was also used to heat the paint drying ovens.
Only Memphis and Jacksonville will have water as well as rail transport available. All plants have rail service and Memphis has 900 feet on the Mississippi and Jacksonville 1,400 feet on the St. Johns River.
OCKLAWAHA
There is one in Richmond California .
i thought they wanted to move the cruise ship terminal to mayport because the newer cruise ships were too big for the bridges we have. i guess if it were at the ford plant we could have the smaller ones still come through. either way i would love to see something done with those buildings
Quote from: hanjin1 on April 13, 2010, 08:41:08 AM
i thought they wanted to move the cruise ship terminal to mayport because the newer cruise ships were too big for the bridges we have. i guess if it were at the ford plant we could have the smaller ones still come through. either way i would love to see something done with those buildings
Same here, like an implosion ;D
Quote from: billy on April 13, 2010, 06:46:03 AM
There is one in Richmond California .
Thank's Billy, yes, my list was just the group of new or expanded plants that were announced on my birthday. The Richmond plant built it's last FORD in 1953 and shut it's doors in 1956. It was subject of a recent MJ article on how they are bringing back "OUR" (look-alike) FORD plant:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-mar-ford-assembly-plant-comes-back-to-life
Hope you enjoy it.
As for you Sportmotor, sure we'll blow it up, hell you can even light the fuse provided you are standing inside of the plant when you do! :o
OCKLAWAHA
Pffft you wish you could be so lucky for that to happen 8)
You can't read the entire article unless you have a subscription to the Jax Biz Journal but this idea is DOA due to the height of the Dames Point Bridge.
QuoteJaxport nixes cruise terminal at old Ford plant
A class of design students and the owner of the former Ford assembly plant at the base of the Mathews Bridge think the site would be a good place for a cruise ship terminal, but the Jacksonville Port Authority does not agree.
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/04/19/story11.html
Like JPA really knows what they are doing! Just like anything else in Jacksonville no vision! You go in on low tide and clear the bridge! Jacksonville would not get a first tier ship anyway, got no proven record of use or cruisers! That means smaller and so freaking what..............small enough to go under the Dames Point Bridge at low tide and then to the base of the Mathews to the new "Cruise Terminal"! Oops...Vescor does not own the old Ford assembly plant so they had better hurry!
Quote from: thelakelander on April 16, 2010, 05:19:55 PM
You can't read the entire article unless you have a subscription to the Jax Biz Journal but this idea is DOA due to the height of the Dames Point Bridge.
City leaders were told this would happen one day if they built the Dames Point Bridge at its current height but they were so anxious to line the pockets of land developers on the Northside, that they rammed the bridge through on a schedule and at a cost within their budget rather than do it right and build it higher as requested by the Jacksonville Shipyards and others at the time.
The same thinking in Jax is what gets us such "winning" and poorly planned projects as the Courthouse fiasco, unnecessary roads like 9B and the Outer Beltway over commuter rail and streetcars, and the user-less and useless $ky-high-way. All about short term gains for the vested interests over the long term interests of our community at large. Until this way of thinking changes, Jax will always perform below its true potential.
stjr........until this Administration and all of their people running things are no longer in office, it won't happen! We have Idiots running things that don't know squat about the right way to get things down and are just interested in lining their pockets or their buddies pockets! No vision, no plan and no funding to get there! Is it 2011 yet...........maybe we can start a recall now?
Quote from: stjr on April 18, 2010, 10:58:38 PM
The same thinking in Jax is what gets us such "winning" and poorly planned projects as the Courthouse fiasco, unnecessary roads like 9B and the Outer Beltway over commuter rail and streetcars, and the user-less and useless $ky-high-way.
Not saying I disagree with you, but remember when some people said the Dames Point Bridge and JTB were unnecessary?
Truth is that few people could have predicted 20 years ago the explosion in cruising....and that there would be ships that held over 5,000 people....plus, Jax. wasn't in the cruise business at the time....so imagine the citizen outcry of "wasteful spending" if there was extra cost for making the bridge higher.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 19, 2010, 08:02:05 AM
Not saying I disagree with you, but remember when some people said the Dames Point Bridge and JTB were unnecessary?
Truth is that few people could have predicted 20 years ago the explosion in cruising....and that there would be ships that held over 5,000 people....plus, Jax. wasn't in the cruise business at the time....so imagine the citizen outcry of "wasteful spending" if there was extra cost for making the bridge higher.
Aaaahh....Tufsu, but people did say the ENTIRE bridge was a waste of money at the time since it was supposed to carry a rather expensive toll that would have killed most traffic on it. Even with the switch to no tolls, the bridge went years with little traffic as developers found out their imagined "pot of gold" wasn't so easy to cash in on as they thought.
In fact, since the bridge couldn't support its costs with tolls, they had to bring the cost of the bridge down since it was going to be free. To do this, they whacked down the height, port and shipyards be damned. In this town, ROADS RULE over trains, ships, and everything else.
Predicting an explosion in cruising wasn't necessary. There were staunch advocates from the port and maritime interests to raise the bridge for existing freight and shipyard business. Further, Jax has always coveted cruise ships and this wasn't unimagined at the time either. Even then, there was a noticeable trend toward ever larger ships of all kinds and concerns about accommodating such WERE vociferously brought up. The real truth is developers designed the bridge and Jax lived for the day, not the future, as is so often done here, and now the future is here and we are paying, once again, for the GOB network and our shortsightedness.
so you admit that people in the 80's thought the Dames Point bridge was a "waste of money"....wonder what a poll of the community would reveal now?
For many people, things expected to be needed in the future seem to be a waste of money in the present.
So, back to polling....how many people in Jacksonville feel that rail transit is something we need in the future and are willing to spend money for it today....my guess is less than 25%....heck, I'd bet that less than half of the community thinks we'll ever need rail transit in Jax.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 20, 2010, 08:01:28 AM
so you admit that people in the 80's thought the Dames Point bridge was a "waste of money"....wonder what a poll of the community would reveal now?
IT WAS A WASTE OF MONEY Tufsu ... at the time.
Why?
-It wasn't connected to the full 9A/I-295 loop for another 20 years or so.
-There was no traffic on it for over a decade which proves it wasn't needed at the time (and that is WITHOUT tolls).
-It was originally proposed with a high toll which would have resulted in even less traffic than what went over it for free, showing it was even more useless at the time.
-The only ones who pushed for it were developers, not the general population. In fact, if you asked Arlington residents at the time, they would have preferred to spend the money replacing or adding to the Matthews Bridge (they might still say the same thing today!).
-We spent hundreds of millions to build a permanent limitation on our port, one of our largest economic engines, and probably a lot more valuable to the community than the Dames Point Bridge.
Bottom line, at a minimum, Dames Point was built a good 15 to 20 years before its time. Given other pressing priorities in the community, that's not a "business like" way to do projects. No business would do a major capital project that far in advance. And, as always, given LIMITED resources, was this the best use of our taxpayer money versus other projects? This is the question that seems to never be factored into decisions in this City regarding road building and other transportation projects.
Quote from: stjr on April 20, 2010, 12:43:02 PM
Bottom line, at a minimum, Dames Point was built a good 15 to 20 years before its time.
got to disagree with you there....construction on the bridge started in 1985 and it opened in 1989...and based on the T-U article from last year, it cost $117 million then...or $436 million today (calculate that inflation factor!)
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-03-10/story/dames_point_bridge_reaches_20-year_mark
Also, with reduced traffic all over due to high gas prices more than 66,000 cars used the bridge every day in 2008....so I highly doubt it was built 15-20 years before its time.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 20, 2010, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: stjr on April 20, 2010, 12:43:02 PM
Bottom line, at a minimum, Dames Point was built a good 15 to 20 years before its time.
Also, with reduced traffic all over due to high gas prices more than 66,000 cars used the bridge every day in 2008....so I highly doubt it was built 15-20 years before its time.
Extending 9A from the bridge to I-95 and ultimately to I-295 is what has enabled traffic to climb on Dames Point. Before that, it was basically a bridge to feed traffic to Regency Square. (How ironic that 9A may actually be helping to fuel Regency Square's demise as people speed by it to the Avenues and SJTC.) Now it's growing due to the urban sprawl it's enabled in the swamps and forests of the Northside. Let's see: 2008 minus 1989 = 19 years. That is well within the 15 to 20 year range I suggested.
But, once again, Tufsu, you digress. The real issue is would we chose to spend $436 million (or 500+ million or more if we built it to the proper height?) then, or now, for this bridge versus countless other options such as a new Mathews Bridge, mass transit light and heavy rail, etc. ? Now, maybe, maybe not. But, in 1989, I don't think this was the best choice by a long shot.
stju...............I am with you on this one! This was not the best choice in 1989 by any means! Just one more dollar in the GOB network pockets and once again the public get hung out to dry!
QuoteOctober Tour Offers Rare Chance To Visit Jacksonville Landmark
Jacksonville, Florida, September 27, 2010.
DOCOMOMO US/Florida is sponsoring a tour of Jacksonville’s former Ford Motor Company assembly plant at 10:00 a.m., Saturday, October 9, 2010.
The 1924 structure was commissioned by Henry Ford and designed by architect Albert Kahn (1869-1942), renowned for his design of factories and industrial buildings around the world. In more recent years, the 160,000-squre-foot Ford building has been used for industrial purposes supporting nearby port activity in Talleyrand.
The Ford plant is on the Jacksonville Historical Society’s list of Most Endangered Historic Buildings. As with many of Kahn’s other industrial buildings, it is characterized by massive scale, use of modern materials, simplicity, and a form clearly dictated by function.
The tour will be part of the Fourth Annual Tour Day sponsored by DOCOMOMO US. Building on the success of Tour Day 2009, Tour Day 2010 expects to bring together over 600 participants, including architecture enthusiasts, historians, architects, designers, preservationists, and students from across the country. (For more information, please visit http://www.docomomo-us.org/tour_day_2010.)
DOCOMOMO US/Florida will be organizing two other tours for the weekend, in Ft. Lauderdale and Gainesville.
The Jacksonville tour will be free, but limited to the first 50 participants to
sign up. Those who wish to participate should send an email to
info@docomomofl.org or telephone organizer Richard Shieldhouse at
(904) 881-9475.
The building, at 1903 East Adams Street, is easily accessible by
proceeding north on Talleyrand Ave. from the stadium area. Three blocks
past the Mathews Bridge, head right on Wambolt Street, which dead ends
at the Ford plant.
DOCOMOMO US is the foremost organization dedicated to promoting
the study, interpretation, and protection of the architecture, landscape, and
urban design of the Modern Movement. Founded in 1998, DOCOMOMO
US is part of a 20-year-old international network of 54 international
chapters. DOCOMOMO US/Florida was founded in 2007 and has already
organized numerous educational events across the state, including three
symposiums and tours in partnership with the Jacksonville chapter of the
American Institute of Architects.
Lunican, thanks for posting this announcement. I'm on the list! I thought I was already on the DOCOMOMO mailing list anyway but I heard it here first and indicated that in my request to Richard Shieldhouse. Thanks MJ!
Our company is located inside this building. We manufacture pallets. It is an interesting place to work! The windows are long gone but the open area where they were keep the building cool in the summer yet shade it from the sun.
Our company is located inside this building. We manufacture pallets. It is an interesting place to work! The windows are long gone but the open area where they were keep the building cool in the summer yet shade it from the sun.
So...security guards will keep the public out? Is this some kind of blanket insurance policy/waiver that only covers 50 people?
So it been 9 months since any one has reply to this post...is the building still sitting vacant downtown or have they decided to do something with it?
It appears that it houses a couple of small industrial companies. There's a pallet company and a barge operator on site. I've also heard rumors of a small shipyard company from Green Cove Springs considering relocating to the Ford site. Nevertheless, the building is still in pretty bad shape.
Would the shipyard company use the building, or just the yard?
I have never visited the Ford plant ( would love to sometime) but on the Matthews Bridge going Westbound into the City, it is visually obvious that the Bulkhead is collapsing. That alone looks like pretty dangerous and costly to fix.
As with all of our remaining landmarks, I hope one day the Ford Plant will be renovated for some use.
Sold for $4.4 million (with surrounding land) to owner of Everbank Center, who sees a lot of growth potential in the area:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544933
They want part of it to be a cruise ship terminal. That would be a wonderful place for one. They will have access to The Shipyards, perhaps an Aquarium, The USS Adams, downtown, etc. We could actually start seeing people come down a day or more in advance and being able to enjoy our amenities.
I knew something was going on with it when construction equipment showed up on the property. Being Jacksonville, naturally, I thought they were going to tear it down, glad to be pleasantly surprised (for once).
That would be great, but the Dames Point won't allow for any modern ships. The carnival that is at Jax port barely fits underneath and it's considered small. I've also heard that it's going out of commission this year or next due to its age and amenities.
In order to compete we'll need much larger ships and a much larger Dames Point.
Quote from: Dapperdan on February 20, 2015, 04:14:10 PM
They want part of it to be a cruise ship terminal. That would be a wonderful place for one. They will have access to The Shipyards, perhaps an Aquarium, The USS Adams, downtown, etc. We could actually start seeing people come down a day or more in advance and being able to enjoy our amenities.
That is not want I read in the story. I believe it states the seller of the property had originally bought it 14 years ago in hopes of making it a cruise terminal. I do not see in the story anything regarding what the purchasers intent is for the property.
Quote from: coredumped on February 20, 2015, 08:04:09 PM
That would be great, but the Dames Point won't allow for any modern ships. The carnival that is at Jax port barely fits underneath and it's considered small. I've also heard that it's going out of commission this year or next due to its age and amenities.
In order to compete we'll need much larger ships and a much larger Dames Point.
Hard to believe a bridge they just built is already obsolete but I guess it is what it is...
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on February 20, 2015, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: coredumped on February 20, 2015, 08:04:09 PM
That would be great, but the Dames Point won't allow for any modern ships. The carnival that is at Jax port barely fits underneath and it's considered small. I've also heard that it's going out of commission this year or next due to its age and amenities.
In order to compete we'll need much larger ships and a much larger Dames Point.
Hard to believe a bridge they just built is already obsolete but I guess it is what it is...
There is no way planners could have conceived of the super cruise boats and post-Panamax cargo ships when the Dames Point Bridge was designed over 25 years ago. Everyone used to think the Verrazano Narrows would never impede any boat, yet one of the super cruise ships had to get advance notice to be able to clear it last year.
The article does state the following:
Redmond said Friday that he and his partners purchased the site because of its location and hopes for a cruise-ship terminal.Also remember that one growing part of the cruise industry is the smaller high end cruise boats. Regent, Windstar and others prefer to run smaller cruise boats catering to higher end clientele. I could easily see a luxury cruise terminal at the Ford site. This would avoid the bridge clearance and river draft problems and align with some of audience the Shipyards will appeal too.
I know most will take this news lightly but I think this shows the impact of what the Shipyards will have already. The fact that the investor mentioned Khan's vision is significant and may lead to more land around the sports district being purchased in the very near future. I too am hoping for a luxury terminal on that site eventually as it could be the niche Jax needs to separate itself from the more dominant cruise ports of Miami, Tampa etc. Either way this is big news!
Quote
Redmond said there have been "off and on" discussions with JaxPort about the property's potential use as a cruise ship terminal. "We've just not been able to create a viable corporation that could see that project through," he said.
...
Redmond said Friday that he and his partners purchased the site because of its location and hopes for a cruise-ship terminal.
There does not seem to be any reference from the NEW owners that a cruise ship terminal would be even pursued.
Quote- core dumped:
The carnival that is at Jax port barely fits underneath and it's considered small. I've also heard that it's going out of commission this year or next due to its age and amenities.
Do we know what happens to old cruise ships like this? Are they decommissioned as it is better tax/ cash flow/ income wise to get the new bigger ship rather than totally refurnish an older ship? Would a ship like this one be a candidate for a smaller cruise line to buy and refurnish as a "boutique" cruise ship? Could that type of work be handled by the companies in Jacksonville? Would that help with something like making the Ford Plant a cruise terminal? Heck, could the Ford plant be refurbished to do that type of work and then just modified to act as the terminal afterwards? Just saw this big potential to put people to work and help multiple local companies if something like that could be done.
I'm not in the travel industry or anything so I'm not the best person to ask, I do enjoy cruising though :)
I've seen a documentary about how they take cruise ships apart and harvest the materials when they retire.
The good news is that all 8 of the fantasy ships are still sailing:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_class_cruise_ship
And it looks like they did some renovations on our ship recently,so maybe what I heard was just a rumor.
In fact, here's a picture I took in 2013 of the fascination going under the dames point:
(http://i.imgur.com/jVP6COZh.jpg)
I hate to rain on the idea of making the old Ford plant a cruise terminal, but other than trying to force a new use into the building to preserve it, I don't see the point. The newer ships are larger, so a new cruise terminal would have to be east of the Dames Point Bridge or someplace like Fernandina Beach.
If the goal is to go for a niche catering to smaller ships, why not take them right into downtown as opposed to the middle of heavy industry a few miles NE of downtown?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-GZNJjpF/0/L/2005%20Super%20Bowl%20Cruise%20Ship-L.jpg)
While downtown would be nice, I dont think it would be viable long term without appropriate surrounding facilities.
Even of the Ford plant falls apart as a luxury cruise dock, the area is ripe for some form of redevelopment.
Yes, today its a poorly maintained industrial zone. Perhaps it can be purposed as a marina with associated pubs and bars.
The key point is it is now in the hands of someone who wants to make something of it.
Only 2 things can happen now......get a dev proposal or it will mysteriously burn down.
Or continue to keep it as an industrial use. Perhaps something similar to the old Ford plant in Richmond, CA?
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-mar-ford-assembly-plant-comes-back-to-life
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/791039293_GpmiG-M.jpg)
QuoteThe Ford Richmond Plant, formally the Ford Motor Company Assembly Plant, in Richmond, California, was the largest assembly plant to be built on the West Coast and its conversion to wartime production during World War II aided the United States' war effort. The plant is part of the Rosie the Riveter/World War II Home Front National Historical Park and is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.
Built in 1930 during the Great Depression, the assembly plant measures nearly 500,000 square feet. The factory was a major stimulant to the local and regional economy and was an important development in Richmond's inner harbor and port plan. Ford became Richmond's third largest employer, behind Standard Oil and the Santa Fe Railroad. It is also an outstanding example of 20th-century industrial architecture designed by architect Albert Kahn, known for his "daylight factory" design, which employed extensive window openings that became his trademark. The main building is composed of a two-story section, a single-story section, a craneway, a boiler house and a shed canopy structure over the railroad track.
To ensure that America prepared for total war by mobilizing all the industrial might of the United States, President Franklin D. Roosevelt banned the production of civilian automobiles during WWII. The Richmond Ford Assembly Plant switched to assembling jeeps and to putting the finishing touches on tanks, half-tracked armored personnel carriers, armored cars and other military vehicles destined for the Pacific Theater. By July 1942, military combat vehicles began flowing into the Richmond Ford plant to get final processing before being transported out the deep-water channel to the war zones. The "Richmond Tank Depot" (only one of three tank depots in the country) as the Ford plant was then called, helped keep American fighting men supplied with up-to-the-minute improvements in their battle equipment. Approximately 49,000 jeeps were assembled and 91,000 other military vehicles were processed here.
In mobilizing the wartime production effort to its full potential, Federal military authorities and private industry began to work closely together on a scale never seen before in American history. This laid the groundwork for what became known as the "military-industrial complex" during the Cold War years. This Assembly Plant was one cog in the mobilization of the "Arsenal of Democracy" and a historic part of what is today's industrial culture of the United States.
After the war, the devastation to the local economy as a result of the closing of the Richmond Shipyards would have been crippling had it not been for the continued production of the Ford Plant. The last Ford was assembled in February 1953, with the plant being closed in 1956 and production transferred to the San Jose Assembly Plant because of the inability to accommodate increased productivity demands.
In 1989, the Loma Prieta earthquake severely damaged the plant. After the earthquake, the City of Richmond repaired and prepared the Ford Assembly building for rehabilitation and selected Orton Development as the developer of the rehabilitation project. In 2008, after the building's rehabilitation was completed, tenants including SunPower Corporation and Mountain Hardware made the building their new home. The craneway of the building is also used for banquets, weddings, and corporate events.
Quote from: coredumped on February 21, 2015, 05:10:58 PM
In fact, here's a picture I took in 2013 of the fascination going under the dames point:
(http://i.imgur.com/jVP6COZh.jpg)
Ah geez, you're not kidding. That thing barely fits.