I feel that city officials should seriously consider filling in the gaps in Downtown. Instead of grass Parking lots, corner stores and gas stations............how about a 600-700 foot skyscraper. I feel downtown Jacksonville has tooooo much potential!!!! we have a beautiful waterfront downtown, a prime location in the center of the city.....WHY CANT JACKSONVILLE REALIZE THIS???? but anyways, what type of skyscrapers do you all feel would suit downtown well??????
I personally would rather replicate some of the buildings we mindlessly demolished , than erect vertical buildings we cannot fill, when we have "sky scrapers" sitting empty now.... Such as theaters , stores, etc. Turn the clock back to what used to work and work well in Downtown and not try to create another Chicago or Manhattan.
I agree Tim. However I would like to see a few more tall towers, mostly because of the companies that built them and the many employees or residents that work and live in them. I was really looking forward to The St. Johns project, which is now in limbo, and the 70 floor 1 Biscayne tower duplicate that was once proposed. A couple of new tall towers between I-95/CSX and the Fuller Warren would give an illusion of width and depth that our CBD is larger then any other Florida city. Those extra tax dollars could go a long way toward saving some of the historic stock.
I think downtown Jax needs to concentrate more on mid-rise infill than more skyscrapers. Yes it makes a more "pow!" presence, but good infill can do so much more.
Anything mixed-use and integrated into the urban environment. Basically the opposite of the high-rises on the Southbank.
Maybe they want to be small. That probably explains all the over-regulation. But honestly, how can we talk about adding skyscrapers when there are already a bunch of empty ones?
Quote from: Anti redneck on May 20, 2012, 12:17:32 AM
Maybe they want to be small. That probably explains all the over-regulation. But honestly, how can we talk about adding skyscrapers when there are already a bunch of empty ones?
Exactly, A R. I am not anti- skyscraper... I simply do not see them happening when some of them we presently have in place sit mostly empty. I guess in part I ran the thread off topic, not intentionally . We certainly have space for them. I think first we need to utilize what we have, and bring destinations back to our downtown , such as those we , for whatever reason , decided to bulldoze and either do away with entirely or put out at SJTC.
Highrises can work.. they did 60 years ago and they still can but we still must come up with ways to bring jobs, people and destinations back to downtown.
Until there's incentive for clustering, either in the form of a diversity of uses or infrastructure (i.e. transit) support, there's no rhyme or reason for increasing density. The commercial buildings downtown and in Brooklyn remind me of Deerwood and the Berkman/Strand/Peninsula look more like 14402 Marina San Pablo off of Butler than urban high-rises. Simply put, downtown can't compete with Southside unless it offers something that Southside doesn't.
If we want our DT to grow we could start by banning any suggestions from first baptist which would help remove some of the goodole christian boy redneck attitudes running rampent down there...personally id like to ban the idea of no more than one councilmen from the same churches. Seems to me that conservative ideas rules and regulations dampen any progressive modern growth... maybe a big skyscraper right on top of fbc..lol...
Just visited Cincy, St. Louis, and Oklahoma City. Took a five mile walk on the OKC "riverwalk" / biking path. The St. Johns is heaven and our riverwalk is unbelievably superior than what those cities even have the possibility of creating. We can bend down and virtually touch our (non-muddy, non-massively embanked) river from our walks.
There are (were) density / potential density areas in Jax, still I wonder if it's fair to say there is a little bit of a downside (not that I'd change the natural set-up in anyway if I were god) with such a nice river: Does the central city stretch out a bit trying to hug the river? IE, the Fidelity area, east to central Brooklyn, Northbank, and Southbank?
I've wondered if you can accept that and create density in the stretched out development on the river better - both sides at the same time? Maybe a lot of green park space - very good biking - in the shipyards area, JEA generating station area, to force density west and across on the river from each other? You'd have better transit to support quick movement along the north and southbank "corridors" hugging the rivers...yes, close a lane on the Main Street bridge for crossing from northbank and southbank...anyway to get quick movement from the northbank and southbank dense areas...dead end streets that lead to the river (I've always wondered, for example, if you could have had a different lay-out / different road pattern so that entry to the Hyatt would have been on the west and east side of the building so that you'd have only a walking area / seating for the hotel restaurant between the hotel and the river...having the road there sucks).
Maybe the river is too much of an obstacle to have strong urban density on both sides...maybe a dense area to force buildings up has to be more targeted just on the northbank...
...beyond my prior babbling though...
I think it would be cool to have something fill in the parking area south of RCBC. Something with a bit of curvature mimicking the fountain curve, allowing views of the fountain, river, northbank at the same time...not too close to the fountain...continued great view and access to the fountain from San Marco Blvd traffic / pedestrians south of the fountain...obviously parking / parking garage space for RCBC (but it might be unfair to RCBC if the visibility of it were hampered...it's got to be allowed to thrive...I know there's a deal with the city to keep it, and it should be kept, of course, I don't know much about the exact structure of the deal)...not too tall building..5 to 15 stories to keep from hawking over the park but only providing shaping...
The history of skyscraper development in Jacksonville is and has been completely driven by single owner-operators. Independent Life built the current Wells Fargo Center for its own use. Barnett Bank built the current Bank of America tower for its own use. Gulf Life the same. BCBS the same. Prudential the same. CSX the same. Government entities obviously the same.
There has been very little traditional office development and certainly no spec development in the city. The most recent and one of the few examples of traditional office development was that of Hallmark Partners' Everbank Plaza/501 Riverside Ave with several tenants signed on for nearly all the space before construction commenced.
Jacksonville won't see another skyscraper until its economy changes whereby there are more traditional office users. Our insurance industry went from one of corporate offices to support services, thereby reducing the need for traditional clustered class A office space.
I can't stress enough the clustering.
Downtown Atlanta - 3 of the big 4 accounting (Ernst & Young, Deloitte, KPMG...PwC is in Midtown), government agencies
Midtown Atlanta - almost all the major law firms (King & Spalding HQ, Alston & Bird HQ and DLA Piper in same building, Jones Day, Holland & Knight, McGuire Woods, Bryan Cave, Seyfarth Shaw, Troutman Sanders HQ, Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton HQ, Sutherland Asbill & Brennan HQ, Fisher & Phillips HQ, Arnall Golden Gregory HQ)
Banks - Suntrust (corporate is downtown), BOA, Wells Fargo, Regions, PNC, BB&T
Buckhead - Investment Banks/Advisors (Merrill Lynch, UBS, Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, Bain & Co, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Credit Suisse, Citi, Morgan Keegan, Deutsche Bank, ING Group, Blackstone, SunTrust Robinson Humphrey, Nomura Securities, RBS, Macquarie Group, Guggenheim Partners, Lazard, Wells Fargo Securities)
Real Estate firms (CBRE, JLL, all the private groups, Reznick Group, which is the country's largest CRE focused accounting firm...Cushman is downtown)
On top of this the clustering happens in individual buildings. 3414 Peachtree (Monarch Tower) is literally a mini Wall St, and so is Terminus. ALl the Midtown buildings are stacked almost entirely with big 100 law firms, either local HQ or branch offices of prestigious firms from NYC/Chicago.
191 Peachtree downtown is home to several architectural firms (Cooper Cary, HOK, HKS) and 999 Peachtree is also stacked with architectural firms (Gensler, Heery Int'l. and others).
There's a rundown of firms that use skyscrapers and how clustering works when available. Jacksonville's whole economy needs to change first before firms start going into high rise office space. I don't think any major law firms outside of Foley & Lardner and Holland & Knight have offices in Jax. I don't think any major architecture firms have offices in Jax. I don't think any big accounting firms have offices in Jax.
Quote from: stephendare on May 20, 2012, 08:54:44 AM
Quote from: Garden guy on May 20, 2012, 06:32:23 AM
If we want our DT to grow we could start by banning any suggestions from first baptist which would help remove some of the goodole christian boy redneck attitudes running rampent down there...personally id like to ban the idea of no more than one councilmen from the same churches. Seems to me that conservative ideas rules and regulations dampen any progressive modern growth... maybe a big skyscraper right on top of fbc..lol...
garden guy this is incredibly tiresome. And it wasn't good old boy conservatives that destroyed the downtown, it was well meaning liberals, mostly.
It's no use Stephen, in the name of 'openness', 'liberal acceptance,' 'free thinking,' and 'progressive ideals, this guy spends 99% of his time on here spewing hate and bias, rarely contributing anything of substance to our conversations. He would apparently rewrite our Constitution to suit his own narrow minded ideas. He is also coming across as woefully ignorant of the fact that FBC is the ONLY major downtown institution to follow through on the downtown master plans. Because he can't tolerate people with different beliefs, he accuses his victims of being the ones who are 'redneck', 'Christian' and close minded.
I think he's somewhere just to the left of STJR on the Skyway!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Timkin on May 20, 2012, 03:14:33 AM
Quote from: Anti redneck on May 20, 2012, 12:17:32 AM
Maybe they want to be small. That probably explains all the over-regulation. But honestly, how can we talk about adding skyscrapers when there are already a bunch of empty ones?
Exactly, A R. I am not anti- skyscraper... I simply do not see them happening when some of them we presently have in place sit mostly empty. I guess in part I ran the thread off topic, not intentionally . We certainly have space for them. I think first we need to utilize what we have, and bring destinations back to our downtown , such as those we , for whatever reason , decided to bulldoze and either do away with entirely or put out at SJTC.
Highrises can work.. they did 60 years ago and they still can but we still must come up with ways to bring jobs, people and destinations back to downtown.
All the new skyscapers will be down upon the I-95 corridor. DT wont compete against such offerings. Parking, space, employee convenience makes downtown on a business aspect low on the list.
The future of DT lays in the hands of people like Ron Chamblin, excellently covered by the thread and story in MetroJax.
Skyscapers, just like the NBA, arnt in the immediate future.
But, aesthetically, there are lots of ideas to ponder.
Quote from: Garden guy on May 20, 2012, 06:32:23 AM
If we want our DT to grow we could start by banning any suggestions from first baptist which would help remove some of the goodole christian boy redneck attitudes running rampent down there...personally id like to ban the idea of no more than one councilmen from the same churches. Seems to me that conservative ideas rules and regulations dampen any progressive modern growth... maybe a big skyscraper right on top of fbc..lol...
:o
While I pretty much agree with you on the future of downtown, I think KennyLovesJAX was thinking more along whimsical lines, a sort of Jacksonville 'what if.'
As for the REAL future? Who knows? A mayor full of ideas, truly focused on downtown and a city government willing to support those ideas could reshape the skyline. We have some really big dogs hidden in these sprawling outer limits office parks around the city and some of these firms are quite familiar with the idea of 'IMAGE'. Just for the sake of argument, what do you think could happen if some incredible incentive were offered to companies willing to relocate downtown? How long would it be before we'd be seeing pine trees atop lofty steel frames?
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 20, 2012, 06:08:34 PM
While I pretty much agree with you on the future of downtown, I think KennyLovesJAX was thinking more along whimsical lines, a sort of Jacksonville 'what if.'
As for the REAL future? Who knows? A mayor full of ideas, truly focused on downtown and a city government willing to support those ideas could reshape the skyline. We have some really big dogs hidden in these sprawling outer limits office parks around the city and some of these firms are quite familiar with the idea of 'IMAGE'. Just for the sake of argument, what do you think could happen if some incredible incentive were offered to companies willing to relocate downtown? How long would it be before we'd be seeing pine trees atop lofty steel frames?
I don't see companies relocating downtown no matter what the incentive, which realistically won't be too incredible.
I see a strong destiny for downtown in residential presence. Already the culture element is securing itself as the magnet for a good number of youngsters willing to become Jacksonvilles true urban residents.
At the risk of repeating myself, DT has every reason to focus on NYCs dilapidated '70s Lower East Side Village as an example to build (and motivate) for the future!
And all that with state of the art rapid transit at its center!
I don't know where some of you are getting this "empty buildings DT" line. True class A and B buildings are at or above 80% occupancy. Enterprise Center is the exception, but Wells is still on the hook to Commonwealth for the lease.
Certainly the numbers they are being leased at don't justify construction, but they also aren't "sitting empty". Absorbption was positive last quarter as well.
Some of the C class properties are sitting vacant, but they have inefficient or obsolete floorplates, no parking, i.e., some reason they aren't occupied.
Where are you getting your % from downtownjag?
When crossing the Fuller Warren, there is a hole in the skyline between CSX and Fidelity, and the east end of both banks, the dead Berkman Project and the former JEA lot could all use some infill. IF we really could get a high-rise somewhere around the TU and ST JOE building, the downtown would at least appear to be enormous to all of those CEO'S taking the family to Disney on I-95. I DO THINK our skylines urban appearance is perhaps our most undersold asset.
OCK
Quote from: downtownjag on May 20, 2012, 09:00:37 PM
I don't know where some of you are getting this "empty buildings DT" line. True class A and B buildings are at or above 80% occupancy. Enterprise Center is the exception, but Wells is still on the hook to Commonwealth for the lease.
Certainly the numbers they are being leased at don't justify construction, but they also aren't "sitting empty". Absorbption was positive last quarter as well.
Some of the C class properties are sitting vacant, but they have inefficient or obsolete floorplates, no parking, i.e., some reason they aren't occupied.
20% vacancy might as well be considered empty in office world, especially in the land of Class A (which Jax doesn't have any "true" Class A space except for maybe BOA and Everbank). Nashville's last office tower was class A (as all new office construction is) and rents average $27-$28 in that building (as opposed to $19-$22 for the best space in downtown Jax). New construction in any sector occurs with rent growth, which is a result of some sort of combination of population growth, job growth and income growth...all of which result in tighter vacancy and thus rent growth. Job growth from luring call centers will not result in DT jobs or demand for more expensive intown apts/condos.
Consider Dallas. Rents have averaged $20-$22 for class A space and vacancy has not dipped lower than 15% in the past 25 years. There has been no rent growth and no "drop" in vacancy with all the constant suburban construction, thus the last office tower to be built in downtown (not Uptown) was 1987. Cityplace was constructed in 1987, and the last office tower over 300 ft built in the suburbs of Dallas was Three Galleria in 1990. It's only even recent that high rise condos have been in demand in Dallas.
It's like high-rise multifamily (or even just simple concrete infill). Rents have to be at a certain level to justify the construction, land has to cost a certain amount to truly warrant the need, and there has to be rent growth to attract capital/lenders.
Quote from: Jdog on May 20, 2012, 08:49:56 AM
Just visited Cincy, St. Louis, and Oklahoma City. Took a five mile walk on the OKC "riverwalk" / biking path. The St. Johns is heaven and our riverwalk is unbelievably superior than what those cities even have the possibility of creating. We can bend down and virtually touch our (non-muddy, non-massively embanked) river from our walks.
I had the same experience in Brooklyn, NY.
When I speak of filling empty buildings, some for examples come to mind right away...
* The Old JEA Building
* The Laura Trio
* The Ambassador
No problem with having new skyscrapers... but would love to see places like these revived and put to use, either commercial, residential or a combination of.
I threw together some images in Google Earth a while back that portrayed what the skyline would look like if the 5 main empty blocks in the CBD were covered up with towers. The skyline changed dramatically. Also, it gave a peek of a true Jacksonville skyscraper canyon.
After filling up the main 5 blocks I went crazy and started plopping towers on every blank spot I could find. It was a lot of fun! :)
I'll try to dig the images up and post them sometime soon. They may even be here already but I think I did that back in the 'ol MetJax days. I'll even post some updated images that incorporate the newly added 3D buildings already built into GE.
IMAGE IS EVERYTHING!!!!! i love the feedback everyone!!, and i hope to see the pics soon man^^^^ :) but when tourists bypass our downtown on I-95.......they will say "Oh that's nice" but they get to south beach and see downtown Miami......they will say "OMG Thats soo beautiful!"....IMAGE IMAGE IMAGE! :)
I don't care what people think about Jacksonville when they see our skyline on MNF or when they drive by on I-95. I care what they think when their boots are on the ground in downtown. And when they are, they often wonder, "where is everybody" or "why is this town so dead".
We need to worry about creating vibrancy at the street level, not giving off the faux impression that there is vibrancy. New York, Chicago, San Fran, etc are what they are because of what happens at street level. Not because their buildings look cool from across the water.
A lot of things need to happen downtown and new skyscrapers aren't one of them. Unless of course that means a major business relocation.
QuoteI don't think any big accounting firms have offices in Jax.
all of the big 4 have offices downtown.
I have heard a lot of feedback about downtown Jacksonville in my lifetime from visitors, and none of it has been geared toward the skyline. Everyone has always either mentioned drinking beer at the Landing or the overall lack of activity/things to do on their visit.
Ironically, I just heard positive feedback from some college buddies from Boston who were visiting a mutual friend we have in Birmingham. Our friend lives in a condo right intown within walking distance of bars, shops and really really one of the best restaurant scenes in the south/country. Needless to say they were impressed with the character of Birmingham, the apparent culture, the walkability and the vibrancy. Granted none of their trip involved a foray into Birmingham's dead downtown, what impressed them had nothing to do with tall buildings and everything to do with the scene at ground level.
That is to me why Brickell is so unimpressive. It could swallow 5 Midtown Atlantas and one would hardly blink an eye, but at street level it is so disengaging and there is more street activity in Midtown Atlanta than Brickell Ave will ever have no matter how many towers go up. South Beach has a greatly reduced skyline and is probably the most walkable, most urban neighborhood south of the Mason Dixon and blows Brickell Ave out of the water in terms of vibrancy.
Again, Dallas hasn't built a new office skyscraper in decades and has only entered the realm of high rise condos/apartments in the last few years, but it is miles ahead of Houston in terms of building a large, concentrated area of density and walkability. Houston is still building 50 floor office towers and the occasional 30 story condo tower completely isolated from anywhere else within a block. Uptown Houston is a mess (lots of skyscrapers, little connectivity). Uptown Dallas is becoming something cool (fewer skyscrapers with lots of low-rise/mid-rise infill, tons of connectivity).
Quoteall of the big 4 have offices downtown.
Correct. PwC is in the Bank of America Tower; the rest are in the Wells Fargo building. Granted, the number of professionals at each is much smaller than in Atlanta.
QuoteI don't think any major law firms outside of Foley & Lardner and Holland & Knight have offices in Jax.
Akerman Senterfitt and McGuire Woods have Jacksonville offices, although the largest office in the city is the local firm of Rogers Towers.
Another interesting fact about the Everbank building on Riverside: all of the tenants are also owners of the building itself. Technically, they're partners in the limited liability partnership that owns the building. The developer actually wanted to build it taller, but couldn't find enough interested tenant-partners at the time.
And in the ultimate irony, my Pandora station is now playing "Jacksonville Skyline" by Whiskeytown (yes, I realize it's a different Jacksonville).
Quote from: CityLife on May 22, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
I don't care what people think about Jacksonville when they see our skyline on MNF or when they drive by on I-95. I care what they think when their boots are on the ground in downtown. And when they are, they often wonder, "where is everybody" or "why is this town so dead".
We need to worry about creating vibrancy at the street level, not giving off the faux impression that there is vibrancy. New York, Chicago, San Fran, etc are what they are because of what happens at street level. Not because their buildings look cool from across the water.
A lot of things need to happen downtown and new skyscrapers aren't one of them. Unless of course that means a major business relocation.
Are you kidding? A city's skyline has everything to do with its image, those cities you mention have both street and visual appeal. Jax looks nice at night, by day the real story is told.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 22, 2012, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: CityLife on May 22, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
I don't care what people think about Jacksonville when they see our skyline on MNF or when they drive by on I-95. I care what they think when their boots are on the ground in downtown. And when they are, they often wonder, "where is everybody" or "why is this town so dead".
We need to worry about creating vibrancy at the street level, not giving off the faux impression that there is vibrancy. New York, Chicago, San Fran, etc are what they are because of what happens at street level. Not because their buildings look cool from across the water.
A lot of things need to happen downtown and new skyscrapers aren't one of them. Unless of course that means a major business relocation.
Are you kidding? A city's skyline has everything to do with its image, those cities you mention have both street and visual appeal. Jax looks nice at night, by day the real story is told.
Jacksonville's "image" is that it is a city with a dead downtown. That has absolutely nothing to do with lack of a skyline and everything do with lack of a vibrant street environment. There are 50+ cities in the US that have worse skylines than Jacksonville and far more vibrancy.
To some people Downtown is just a set of buildings that they see from the highway when they drive by...for those of us that live, work, and play Downtown, it is an area that is lacking vibrancy FAR more than it is lacking high rises.
We need more low and mid rise infill to build vibrancy far more than we need skyscrapers.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 20, 2012, 09:34:04 PM
Where are you getting your % from downtownjag?
CoStar & industry reports.
Quote from: Traveller on May 22, 2012, 03:25:12 PM
Quoteall of the big 4 have offices downtown.
Correct. PwC is in the Bank of America Tower; the rest are in the Wells Fargo building. Granted, the number of professionals at each is much smaller than in Atlanta.
QuoteI don't think any major law firms outside of Foley & Lardner and Holland & Knight have offices in Jax.
Akerman Senterfitt and McGuire Woods have Jacksonville offices, although the largest office in the city is the local firm of Rogers Towers.
Another interesting fact about the Everbank building on Riverside: all of the tenants are also owners of the building itself. Technically, they're partners in the limited liability partnership that owns the building. The developer actually wanted to build it taller, but couldn't find enough interested tenant-partners at the time.
Yeah I did a lookup and that's right, but the pool of class A high rise office tenants is very limited in Jacksonville. Essentially with the age of the building stock, a building like Wells Fargo Center and Riverplace Tower are B class buildings filled with A class tenants. There's a lot of B space occupied by A tenants, and there are a lot of B tenants in Jacksonville in the burbs or in older buildings in town. What needs to take place is one big expansion or relocation of a premiere A tenant who can anchor a new tower, timing of other A tenants' leases so that they can play musical chairs, pay the $25+ rent necessary to get a new building off the ground, and then that would free up a lot of the B stock in downtown Jacksonville that could essentially spur more moves similar to Everbank.
Right now there aren't enough floorplates/consolidated suites available to those who would consider moving downtown because the available building stock, even with the vacancy, is not there. A lot of the big tenants are in the burbs, so a lot of the small tenants that would occupy 500-5,000 SF are also in the burbs for convenience to their business.
(I'm not a broker, but I have heard stories from people in companies scouting space...and they couldn't find the appropriate configurations or the right size, despite all the vacancies in the various buildings, so my above statements are inference...)
Also, that's an interesting model for building office. I'm trying to wrap my head around how the capital stack would work and I'm wondering how many conflicts could possibly arise on decision making at the project level...like when to sell and what to do with the retail space and how much to charge for parking...I can't imagine a law firm, a bank and a developer having the same set of goals and expectations!
Quote from: downtownjag on May 22, 2012, 04:49:36 PM
And I'm not arguing Simms' all knowing asset managerish knowledge of the market and why it's soo hard to make a name in Atlanta.
Huh? I think the only thing we have disagreed on is the severity of 20% vacancy. I contend in today's world it's enough to might as well be empty and it certainly won't help push rents in Jacksonville or Dallas, which is basically as cheap as Jacksonville and 6 times the size.
Quote from: downtownjag on May 22, 2012, 04:50:06 PM
Or questioning his calling Everbank Center Class A
I said maybe BOA and Everbank. If I had come right out and said Jax had no class A towers the world would scream at me. What do you consider class A or do you agree that by most cities' standards Jax doesn't have "CBD" class A product?
Quote from: CityLife on May 22, 2012, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 22, 2012, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: CityLife on May 22, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
I don't care what people think about Jacksonville when they see our skyline on MNF or when they drive by on I-95. I care what they think when their boots are on the ground in downtown. And when they are, they often wonder, "where is everybody" or "why is this town so dead".
We need to worry about creating vibrancy at the street level, not giving off the faux impression that there is vibrancy. New York, Chicago, San Fran, etc are what they are because of what happens at street level. Not because their buildings look cool from across the water.
A lot of things need to happen downtown and new skyscrapers aren't one of them. Unless of course that means a major business relocation.
Are you kidding? A city's skyline has everything to do with its image, those cities you mention have both street and visual appeal. Jax looks nice at night, by day the real story is told.
Jacksonville's "image" is that it is a city with a dead downtown. That has absolutely nothing to do with lack of a skyline and everything do with lack of a vibrant street environment. There are 50+ cities in the US that have worse skylines than Jacksonville and far more vibrancy.
To some people Downtown is just a set of buildings that they see from the highway when they drive by...for those of us that live, work, and play Downtown, it is an area that is lacking vibrancy FAR more than it is lacking high rises.
We need more low and mid rise infill to build vibrancy far more than we need skyscrapers.
I personally didnt say we needed more skyscrapers like this thread title, I said a city's skyline does have alot to do with its image and it certainly does.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 22, 2012, 10:27:30 PM
Quote from: CityLife on May 22, 2012, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 22, 2012, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: CityLife on May 22, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
I don't care what people think about Jacksonville when they see our skyline on MNF or when they drive by on I-95. I care what they think when their boots are on the ground in downtown. And when they are, they often wonder, "where is everybody" or "why is this town so dead".
We need to worry about creating vibrancy at the street level, not giving off the faux impression that there is vibrancy. New York, Chicago, San Fran, etc are what they are because of what happens at street level. Not because their buildings look cool from across the water.
A lot of things need to happen downtown and new skyscrapers aren't one of them. Unless of course that means a major business relocation.
Are you kidding? A city's skyline has everything to do with its image, those cities you mention have both street and visual appeal. Jax looks nice at night, by day the real story is told.
Jacksonville's "image" is that it is a city with a dead downtown. That has absolutely nothing to do with lack of a skyline and everything do with lack of a vibrant street environment. There are 50+ cities in the US that have worse skylines than Jacksonville and far more vibrancy.
To some people Downtown is just a set of buildings that they see from the highway when they drive by...for those of us that live, work, and play Downtown, it is an area that is lacking vibrancy FAR more than it is lacking high rises.
We need more low and mid rise infill to build vibrancy far more than we need skyscrapers.
I personally didnt say we needed more skyscrapers like this thread title, I said a city's skyline does have alot to do with its image and it certainly does.
Much like Cinderella's castle has a lot to do with Disney's image...but at the end of the day its empty and merely symbolic. Cities are measured by what happens at the street level, not by the size of their buildings. Paris for instance is arguably the greatest city on earth (depending on who you talk to) and there are virtually no buildings over 5 or 6 stories in the center city.
Quote from: CityLife on May 22, 2012, 11:32:46 PM
Paris for instance is arguably the greatest city on earth (depending on who you talk to) and there are virtually no buildings over 5 or 6 stories in the center city.
Well that's a rule in Paris so people can easily see the spires of the cathedrals and the Eiffel Tower, Arch De Triumph, and other sites that um, uh, make up THE PARIS SKYLINE!
As a world traveler, I've seen many, many, skylines. Pittsburgh rising from the junction of the three rivers and fenced in by mountains is one of my favorite. Laos Angles, hardly noted for it's skyline is quite a sight from the front door of Union Station. Panama City Panama is absolutely stunning seen from the crystal waters of the sea. Medellin, Rio, Manhattan and San Francisco all shine at night... But I wouldn't score any of them above Jacksonville's even as it stands today. People here don't seem to appreciate the beauty of our city as seen from the Fuller Warren... You could hardly reproduce it with all of the talent in Disney!
OCKLAWAHA
The Arc De Triomphe, Notre Dame, Sainte Chapelle, Sacre Couer, etc are skyscrapers? The point was that you don't need skyscrapers to be a great city. Interestingly Paris does have a very impressive grouping of skyscrapers called La Defense just outside of the center city, but you rarely if ever see it shown in movies, tv, or print.
More skyscrapers would be nice, but as so many have already said - the ones already downtown are mostly vacant.
Independent Life/AccuStaff/Modis/Wells Fargo, Helmut's Pencil, and the AT&T building are pretty to look at, but God help anyone over the 6th floor in case of fire. JFRD's ladders can only reach so high.
Quote from: BackinJax05 on May 23, 2012, 03:00:34 AM
More skyscrapers would be nice, but as so many have already said - the ones already downtown are mostly vacant.
This is not true. They are not mostly vacant. Enterprise Center probably has the highest vacany rate now. Everbank Center will be 70% occupied when Everbank moves in. CSX fills two buildings alone. I get so tired of hearing no one works, lives or does anything Downtown. Those myths continue to perpetuate a negative view of Downtown by many.
Kahn Tower has a nice ring to it.
QuoteBut I wouldn't score any of them above Jacksonville's even as it stands today. People here don't seem to appreciate the beauty of our city as seen from the Fuller Warren... You could hardly reproduce it with all of the talent in Disney!
I am much less traveled that Oklawaha, but within the US, I have seen a fair number of skylines, and Jax is at or very near the top.
Unfortunately, the value of it is not appreciated locally. Otherwise the bridges and buildings would be lite up every night. Also the properties with skyline views would have a 'view premium' added to their rent and resale values. That doesn't appear to be the case.
The way I would put it is aesthetics are very important, and city's skyline is a key aspect of those aesthetics. But having a fully functioning downtown is even more important. This doesn't require skyscrapers to happen.
For example, Asheville, NC has a vibrant downtown and basically no skyscrapers. I'd much rather spend time there than in skyscraper havens like Brickell, Miami or Buckhead, Atlanta.
^^^Agreed.
I do not think that of the skyscrapers Jax does have, many or any are "icons" except for maybe the Wells Fargo Center for its scale and base and prominence in the skyline. If Jax were to ever add a new skyscraper, it would most certainly be a real class A tower and would command the highest rent, and as part of that package I would hope/guess that the team would commission a currently reputable architect to lead the design. I think we could expect that at some point in the future, whether that's within 5 years (unlikely) or within 15 years (highly likely by default).
Pickard Chilton designed Nashville's latest (which is a Cesar Pelli knockoff, has one of the nicest lobbies anywhere and nicest office space, but looks like so many other buildings). Pickard Chilton also designed the 55 floor Devon Tower in Oklahoma City, which to me really is a significant design. Pickard Chilton also designed 1180 Peachtree (2006), which is the most expensive office building in the south outside of Miami. He seems to be the architect du jour for prominent new towers.
Granted Devon is anchored by Devon's HQ (I believe the vast majority of the tower), Pinnacle in Nashville is leased to all of the prominent law firms in Nashville, and 1180 Peachtree is almost exclusively leased to King & Spalding and serves as their HQ.
Quote from: vicupstate on May 23, 2012, 08:13:39 AM
QuoteBut I wouldn't score any of them above Jacksonville's even as it stands today. People here don't seem to appreciate the beauty of our city as seen from the Fuller Warren... You could hardly reproduce it with all of the talent in Disney!
I am much less traveled that Oklawaha, but within the US, I have seen a fair number of skylines, and Jax is at or very near the top.
Unfortunately, the value of it is not appreciated locally. Otherwise the bridges and buildings would be lite up every night. Also the properties with skyline views would have a 'view premium' added to their rent and resale values. That doesn't appear to be the case.
Jax skyline is very nice at night, but to say its near or close to the top sounds like home town cooking. Not trying to be rude but I think you should travel a little more.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 23, 2012, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 23, 2012, 08:13:39 AM
QuoteBut I wouldn't score any of them above Jacksonville's even as it stands today. People here don't seem to appreciate the beauty of our city as seen from the Fuller Warren... You could hardly reproduce it with all of the talent in Disney!
I am much less traveled that Oklawaha, but within the US, I have seen a fair number of skylines, and Jax is at or very near the top.
Unfortunately, the value of it is not appreciated locally. Otherwise the bridges and buildings would be lite up every night. Also the properties with skyline views would have a 'view premium' added to their rent and resale values. That doesn't appear to be the case.
Jax skyline is very nice at night, but to say its near or close to the top sounds like home town cooking. Not trying to be rude but I think you should travel a little more.
Well Jax isn't my hometown (although my parents lived there for a few months 12 years before I was born -- does that count?) nor have I ever been a resident. I have been to NYC, Chicago, LA, Las Vegas, San Antonio, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando, Indy, Tampa, Atlanta (dozens of times), Philadelphia, SAn Francisco, San Diego, Denver, Kansas City, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Birmingham, Mobile, Montgomery, Columbia SC, Charlotte, Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Winston Salem, Washington DC.
Of those, Chicago, San Diego, San Francisco and more recently Miami, beat Jax. Given how much bigger those cities are, I think that puts Jax in pretty good company.
Keith, don't confuse quantity with quality, certainly ours is not as big, not as high, not as... But I'd still rank it near the very top. For example Bartlesville, Oklahoma has a skyline dominated by a single Frank L Wright office tower... all Bartlesville needs to be beautiful is ONE FRANK L WRIGHT TOWER. Here are some others that I like.
(http://samhoodonline.com/pictures/bartlesville/trainstation.jpg)
(http://www.visitbartlesville.com/caffeine/uploads/gallery1004/websitePriceTower.jpg)
Bartlesville
(http://www.panamarq.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/skyline2010concintach3.jpg)
Panama City
(http://www2.dupont.com/inclusive-innovations/en-us/sites/default/files/NationalGeographic_Protection_1243924_RioSkyline_630x315.jpg)
Rio
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7164/6853630393_5f6a8c4952_z.jpg)
MEDELLIN, COLOMBIA
(http://www.thisischile.cl/Recursos/imagen/1_10012011_145012_stgo550.jpg)
Santiago, Chile
The beauty of these last two is that on a crystal clear Andean morning you can look out your window and watch the condors soar off the tops of the surrounding mountains... Yeah, they ARE big enough to see and they ride the thermal up drafts that come off the cliffs and the skyscrapers. One day whilst watching TV (it was near the window) we saw this enormous wing dip past right outside of our apartment (19Th floor) balcony. Unfortunately even though we scrambled to get a better look the giant bird had apparently circled the building and we didn't see it again that day.
OCKLAWAHA
I agree with Vic and Ock that we have a very nice skyline. The cityscape isn't a problem for us, IMO. Our real problems are in the towers (or rather, not in in a great enough quantity) and on the street level below.
Quote from: KennyLovesJAX on May 19, 2012, 09:22:36 PM
I feel that city officials should seriously consider filling in the gaps in Downtown. Instead of grass Parking lots, corner stores and gas stations............how about a 600-700 foot skyscraper. I feel downtown Jacksonville has tooooo much potential!!!! we have a beautiful waterfront downtown, a prime location in the center of the city.....WHY CANT JACKSONVILLE REALIZE THIS???? but anyways, what type of skyscrapers do you all feel would suit downtown well??????
I wish thing were this simply. There are many office parks near the belway that could easily be downtown towers...but they choose to build out instead of up. Id like to see a really big peace of art work in the city. Something big enough to fill the skyline like a statue or
No I agree with u guys I just saying intoday society people. wanna see booming skyline, add so innfill and street level activity well help as well but at what part floor we final move into a first tierc ity
IMAGINE JACKSONVILLE!
I AGREE, FLORIDA HAS FEW IF ANY MONUMENTS THAT MATCH THOSE OF LATIN AMERICA
HERE ARE JUST A FEW (with the exception of the first photo) ALL LOCATED IN MEDELLIN, COLOMBIA.
(http://thescenicroutethroughlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/colombia-2011-32.jpg)
Okay team, Colombia has a LONG HISTORY of building amazing monuments. Little is known about the pre-hispanic tribes that inhabited the area around San AgustÃn (St Augustine) from 3300 BC to about the turn of the millenium. However the society that sprung up around the first century AD that flourished until about the 8th century AD left behind hundreds of huge stone monuments which comprise “The largest group of religious monuments and megalithic sculptures in South America†-(World Heritage website) and was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1995.
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00002bBkN.mSphU/s/600/600/Botero-Medellin-5-Version-2.jpg)
(http://www.twip.org/photo/south-america/colombia/photo-3618-03-10-06-09-37-44.jpg)
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4085/4984240349_b58cb3880b_z.jpg)
(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/24189/2971320010104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
(http://img%20src="http://farm1.staticflickr.com/204/473120800_e8def0a3ef_z.jpg)
Botero Statues in Medellin, Colombia, are omnipresent. Arguably the two most famous living sons of Medellin are both named Botero: Santiago and Fernando. Both Botero's are famous. Santiago, for his other-worldly feats on a bicycle, and Fernando for his other-worldly feats with bronze, and a paintbrush. All Botero statues and paintings are named very literally. This piece, for example, is “Woman Lying Downâ€. He is a creative genius. Maybe we could import a few?
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2738/4266880744_a0f647d0b4_z.jpg)
(http://bainblabber.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/20110803-084931.jpg)
(http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/49420/2937879020104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
This is the Pantano de Vargas (Vargas Swamp) monument. Although no longer a swamp, this place is famous for a decisive battle that took place a couple of days before the one in Puente de Boyacá (Boyacá Bridge). Outnumbered by the Spanish army, the republican army was able to win this battle thanks to the bravery of the 15 soldiers honored here, who penetrated the Spanish cavalry in a strategic and "suicidal" move, armed only with lances. It is over 100 feet high.
(http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/50543/2529222510104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
Luis 'Lucho' Herrera was one of the finest grimpeurs to come from Colombia. He was the winner of five King of the Mountain Jersey's and the first South American to win a Grand Tour (1987 Vuelta a Espana). Grimpeurs are a group of cyclists raising money for cancer charities.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2423/4114100436_803b47565f_z.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3116/3157410160_f8f88516c4_z.jpg)
PLAZA DE CISNEROS â€" PARQUE DE LA LUZ
Former Plaza de Cisneros, later known as “El Pedrero†and used as MedellÃn's main marketplace through the first half of the 20th, century has been converted into the Parque de la Luz (Plaza of Lights). This site owes its name to the 300 light poles, 2100 spotlights, and 170 in-ground lights that turn this into a magical wonderland at night.
http://www.youtube.com/v/08FbXv_1qb4?version=3&hl=en_US
http://www.youtube.com/v/4yjuqGb7wLo?version=3&hl=en_US
Interestingly, the Medellin EPM Fuente (EPM Fountain) is a product of Colombia, California and Atlanta... One would think we could do this along the Riverwalk in the north bank area.
IMAGINE JACKSONVILLE!
Quote from: fsujax on May 23, 2012, 07:58:59 AM
Quote from: BackinJax05 on May 23, 2012, 03:00:34 AM
More skyscrapers would be nice, but as so many have already said - the ones already downtown are mostly vacant.
This is not true. They are not mostly vacant. Enterprise Center probably has the highest vacany rate now. Everbank Center will be 70% occupied when Everbank moves in. CSX fills two buildings alone. I get so tired of hearing no one works, lives or does anything Downtown. Those myths continue to perpetuate a negative view of Downtown by many.
Point taken. However, you only mentioned 3 buildings. The Laura Street Trio, Barnett Building, and other historic downtown landmarks continue to remain vacant - and slowly crumbling.
Out of curiosity, what are the occupancy rates for Helmut's Pencil (BofA) & Wells Fargo/Modis/AccuStaff/Independent Life buildings?
And JFRD's ladders will still only reach so high. ;)
I've always loved Santiago's skyline. I swear it looks like it should be sitting along the US/Canada border though. Looks very northern.
My other favs are Hong Kong and Dubai (moreso because of the cool architecture of the buildings). But as far as sheer beauty, you can't have this discussion without mentioning our Oz friends outback.... Perth, Melbourne, and Adelaide.
Melbourne is very nice. I have always enjoyed watching the Aussie Open because of tennis of course and their skyline.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 23, 2012, 11:01:48 PM
IMAGINE JACKSONVILLE!
I AGREE, FLORIDA HAS FEW IF ANY MONUMENTS THAT MATCH THOSE OF LATIN AMERICA
HERE ARE JUST A FEW (with the exception of the first photo) ALL LOCATED IN MEDELLIN, COLOMBIA.
(http://thescenicroutethroughlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/colombia-2011-32.jpg)
Okay team, Colombia has a LONG HISTORY of building amazing monuments. Little is known about the pre-hispanic tribes that inhabited the area around San AgustÃn (St Augustine) from 3300 BC to about the turn of the millenium. However the society that sprung up around the first century AD that flourished until about the 8th century AD left behind hundreds of huge stone monuments which comprise “The largest group of religious monuments and megalithic sculptures in South America†-(World Heritage website) and was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1995.
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00002bBkN.mSphU/s/600/600/Botero-Medellin-5-Version-2.jpg)
(http://www.twip.org/photo/south-america/colombia/photo-3618-03-10-06-09-37-44.jpg)
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4085/4984240349_b58cb3880b_z.jpg)
(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/24189/2971320010104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
(http://img%20src="http://farm1.staticflickr.com/204/473120800_e8def0a3ef_z.jpg)
Botero Statues in Medellin, Colombia, are omnipresent. Arguably the two most famous living sons of Medellin are both named Botero: Santiago and Fernando. Both Botero's are famous. Santiago, for his other-worldly feats on a bicycle, and Fernando for his other-worldly feats with bronze, and a paintbrush. All Botero statues and paintings are named very literally. This piece, for example, is “Woman Lying Downâ€. He is a creative genius. Maybe we could import a few?
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2738/4266880744_a0f647d0b4_z.jpg)
(http://bainblabber.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/20110803-084931.jpg)
(http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/49420/2937879020104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
This is the Pantano de Vargas (Vargas Swamp) monument. Although no longer a swamp, this place is famous for a decisive battle that took place a couple of days before the one in Puente de Boyacá (Boyacá Bridge). Outnumbered by the Spanish army, the republican army was able to win this battle thanks to the bravery of the 15 soldiers honored here, who penetrated the Spanish cavalry in a strategic and "suicidal" move, armed only with lances. It is over 100 feet high.
(http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/50543/2529222510104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
Luis 'Lucho' Herrera was one of the finest grimpeurs to come from Colombia. He was the winner of five King of the Mountain Jersey's and the first South American to win a Grand Tour (1987 Vuelta a Espana). Grimpeurs are a group of cyclists raising money for cancer charities.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2423/4114100436_803b47565f_z.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3116/3157410160_f8f88516c4_z.jpg)
PLAZA DE CISNEROS â€" PARQUE DE LA LUZ
Former Plaza de Cisneros, later known as “El Pedrero†and used as MedellÃn's main marketplace through the first half of the 20th, century has been converted into the Parque de la Luz (Plaza of Lights). This site owes its name to the 300 light poles, 2100 spotlights, and 170 in-ground lights that turn this into a magical wonderland at night.
http://www.youtube.com/v/08FbXv_1qb4?version=3&hl=en_US
http://www.youtube.com/v/4yjuqGb7wLo?version=3&hl=en_US
Interestingly, the Medellin EPM Fuente (EPM Fountain) is a product of Colombia, California and Atlanta... One would think we could do this along the Riverwalk in the north bank area.
IMAGINE JACKSONVILLE!
Medellin looks pretty, but Id be willing to bet most of that stuff was paid for with laundered money. (Remember Carlos Ledher & the Medellin Cartel?)
Quote from: BackinJax05 on May 24, 2012, 02:59:02 AM
Quote from: fsujax on May 23, 2012, 07:58:59 AM
Quote from: BackinJax05 on May 23, 2012, 03:00:34 AM
More skyscrapers would be nice, but as so many have already said - the ones already downtown are mostly vacant.
This is not true. They are not mostly vacant. Enterprise Center probably has the highest vacany rate now. Everbank Center will be 70% occupied when Everbank moves in. CSX fills two buildings alone. I get so tired of hearing no one works, lives or does anything Downtown. Those myths continue to perpetuate a negative view of Downtown by many.
Point taken. However, you only mentioned 3 buildings. The Laura Street Trio, Barnett Building, and other historic downtown landmarks continue to remain vacant - and slowly crumbling.
Out of curiosity, what are the occupancy rates for Helmut's Pencil (BofA) & Wells Fargo/Modis/AccuStaff/Independent Life buildings?
And JFRD's ladders will still only reach so high. ;)
I am not the expert on vacany rates, but last I heard the Wells Fargo building was over 90% occupied, BofA was somewhere in the 80% range. I know we do have lots of empty, mostly historic structures
There will be another skyscraper here when the present ones are close to fully occupied and some large company which can occupy a large percentage of the floors in a new one decides to make the investment - thereby showing us the money.
I'm voting with the ground-level activity folks and those who think Paris is at or near the top of the list of great cities of the world. For a good read about how it was saved from total destruction on Hitler's orders at the end of WW II, try "Is Paris Burning."
I wonder: If someones wanted to, would it be possible to convert a floor in one of our skyscrapers to residential use? For instance, Wells Fargo just vacated the _ _ _ Building for the Wells Fargo Building, leaving the _ _ _ Building with a number of vacant floors. Convert one floor to a condominium and sell off portions for residential use. Or long-term rent 'em out.
Quote from: fsujax on May 25, 2012, 07:46:49 AM
Quote from: BackinJax05 on May 24, 2012, 02:59:02 AM
Quote from: fsujax on May 23, 2012, 07:58:59 AM
Quote from: BackinJax05 on May 23, 2012, 03:00:34 AM
More skyscrapers would be nice, but as so many have already said - the ones already downtown are mostly vacant.
This is not true. They are not mostly vacant. Enterprise Center probably has the highest vacany rate now. Everbank Center will be 70% occupied when Everbank moves in. CSX fills two buildings alone. I get so tired of hearing no one works, lives or does anything Downtown. Those myths continue to perpetuate a negative view of Downtown by many.
Point taken. However, you only mentioned 3 buildings. The Laura Street Trio, Barnett Building, and other historic downtown landmarks continue to remain vacant - and slowly crumbling.
Out of curiosity, what are the occupancy rates for Helmut's Pencil (BofA) & Wells Fargo/Modis/AccuStaff/Independent Life buildings?
And JFRD's ladders will still only reach so high. ;)
I am not the expert on vacany rates, but last I heard the Wells Fargo building was over 90% occupied, BofA was somewhere in the 80% range. I know we do have lots of empty, mostly historic structures
That's correct friend. WFC is doing very well, thanks to WF. B of A is doing well too, and is now LEED certified, which alot of big name companies look for. Enterprise is leased but empty (WF lease) so I hope and expect them to market to a big, multifloor tenant that wants signage.
Quote from: WmNussbaum on May 25, 2012, 07:54:09 AM
There will be another skyscraper here when the present ones are close to fully occupied and some large company which can occupy a large percentage of the floors in a new one decides to make the investment - thereby showing us the money.
Agreed, and I believe it may be closer to happening than is perceived.
I am definately for activating the street scene. I have noticed lots of scaffolding atop the Enterprise Center and other work going on there. Guess they are trying to get the building spruced up in the hopes they can attract a large tenant with naming rights.
Quote from: fsujax on May 25, 2012, 08:37:22 AM
I am definately for activating the street scene. I have noticed lots of scaffolding atop the Enterprise Center and other work going on there. Guess they are trying to get the building spruced up in the hopes they can attract a large tenant with naming rights.
The sign company that took down the Wachovia sign damaged the fascade. They are just fixing that, it seems to be a recurring problem.
The courthouse has a huge American flag out front, if they could lay the sod, it would be a beautiful sight/site:)
Quote from: downtownjag on May 25, 2012, 08:33:29 AM
Quote from: WmNussbaum on May 25, 2012, 07:54:09 AM
There will be another skyscraper here when the present ones are close to fully occupied and some large company which can occupy a large percentage of the floors in a new one decides to make the investment - thereby showing us the money.
Agreed, and I believe it may be closer to happening than is perceived.
I think we may see this within the next 10 years. When it happens it will be a building that can offer the tenants something they can't currently get in Jacksonville, including the 'burbs. I doubt it will be another BOA Tower or Wells Fargo Center though.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 25, 2012, 10:22:04 AM
Quote from: downtownjag on May 25, 2012, 08:33:29 AM
Quote from: WmNussbaum on May 25, 2012, 07:54:09 AM
There will be another skyscraper here when the present ones are close to fully occupied and some large company which can occupy a large percentage of the floors in a new one decides to make the investment - thereby showing us the money.
Agreed, and I believe it may be closer to happening than is perceived.
I think we may see this within the next 10 years. When it happens it will be a building that can offer the tenants something they can't currently get in Jacksonville, including the 'burbs. I doubt it will be another BOA Tower or Wells Fargo Center though.
I think it will be an owner/user, next 5 years... But I agree, it won't be a BOA or WF
I don't think we can discount the exposure and therefore the 'image' that can be projected by a lofty tower somewhere along our waterfront downtown. From what we are seeing in cities of similar size, it appears that several major corporations have decided their buildings get more 'air time' when they can dominate a skyline. Example the new towers in Oklahoma City are amazing and their various elevations are exposed to Amtrak, I-40, I-44, I-35, and a good deal of the traffic coming out of the Oklahoma City Airport. Much of this traffic is running from the east coast to the west coast, not unlike our New England - Mickey/Miami traffic. IF we had a real sales team in the field for Jacksonville's downtown, I truly think we'd have to beat em off like killing snakes with a stick. Jacksonville's image as seen from the Fuller Warren is priceless.
If and when we do finally get another I think it needs to look similar to Austin's frost tower or something of that sort. Something iconic..
Quote from: JaxJag on June 05, 2012, 09:21:14 PM
If and when we do finally get another I think it needs to look similar to Austin's frost tower or something of that sort. Something iconic..
(http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/48024/2288809530104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
I agree, the RSA tower in Mobile, Alabama is likewise amazing, but remember this is Jacksonville. When the day comes for us to get another big blue chip company downtown, it will be 'Wal-Mart' and the whole 40 floor tower will be made of blue concrete cinder blocks and poop brown sheet metal! ;)
:'( exactly, there's a few I like in Atlanta one in Nashville etc.. But lets hope not. I might be getting ahead of myself but I wonder what will happen with PSS?