I'm sure the Chamber will hear about Cincinnati's streetcar project when they are up there. Metro Jacksonville readers will get an early review. I'm scheduled to be up there in June to tour downtown for an investment group project I'm involved in.
QuoteJAX Chamber’s 32nd annual Leadership Trip is going to Cincinnati this fall. During the visit, Oct. 23-25, participants will learn how the city’s leaders addressed topics such as economic development, public private partnerships, downtown revitalization, education reform and sports and entertainment marketing.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2012-04-20/story/chamber-planning-october-trip-cincinnati
Do you really think that'll wake anyone up?
32nd annual event... 32 trips and what has resulted from any of them? This is more like "Hey let's take a field trip to Cincinnati to hang out."
The one possible benefit is that the Chamber is going to come FACE TO FACE with the construction of a brand new STREETCAR SYSTEM. The Cincinnati Streetcar fought a long uphill battle and the people prevailed. The 'Tea Party' along with the NAACP supported a referendum to kill the project... That idea was soundly defeated in the voting booths as the people proved that 'THE PEOPLE WANT RAIL.' Good lesson for JTA. Wonder if we can buy them a few tickets to Cincinnati too.
Cincinnati streetcar is now turning dirt. Like most new streetcar construction it will be built one block at a time (one to two being pretty standard) and thus it will have a minimal effect on downtown traffic and pedestrians. It also will allow the developers to start moving in along the streetcar where Cincinnati planners expect a $14 to $1 return on their investment.
My, my, couldn't downtown Jacksonville use a $14 to $1 return on anything? STREETCAR WOULD DELIVER THAT.
OCKLAWAHA
Instead of streetcar, why not just try to push more skyway?
^Two different animals with completely different price points. One mile of skyway probably costs three times as much to construct as one mile of streetcar. Nevertheless, there are corridors where the skyway makes sense and others where streetcar, commuter rail, and even BRT make sense.
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip? Will perhaps another study or paper be published? More talk about what Jacksonville may need to consider? Followed by more inaction and perhaps the destruction of a few more historic buildings?
Quote from: Bativac on April 21, 2012, 08:04:46 AM
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip? Will perhaps another study or paper be published? More talk about what Jacksonville may need to consider? Followed by more inaction and perhaps the destruction of a few more historic buildings?
I wonder if they've implemented anything in Jax from any of these trips, like ever? I'd also like to know the cost to send these do-nothings on annual trips like this.
What they need to do is take a trip to Jacksonville, and ask themselves just how much of what they have already seen elsewhere, has not even been started here? Then they need to lock themselves in a room and ask why the implementation phase never occurs.
Think of all the money they would put in the Jax economy instead of the Cincy economy.
Quote from: Bativac on April 21, 2012, 08:04:46 AM
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip?
they are hardly free trips...at least for most attendees
I know there was an article on the subject of adaptive reuse of historic building stock recently. Union Terminal is an excellent example of this, and actually it would particularly interesting considering that it serves as both a train station and is the home of several big museums. If we're serious about transitioning Prime Osborn from a convention center back to a train station, I'm sure we can take some lessons about what to do and what not to do from them.
Quote from: peestandingup on April 21, 2012, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Bativac on April 21, 2012, 08:04:46 AM
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip? Will perhaps another study or paper be published? More talk about what Jacksonville may need to consider? Followed by more inaction and perhaps the destruction of a few more historic buildings?
I wonder if they've implemented anything in Jax from any of these trips, like ever? I'd also like to know the cost to send these do-nothings on annual trips like this.
No, they've never implemented anything. Jacksonville politicians do whatever they can do get away from here and that's why they take these trips! They hate Jacksonville! They use taxpayers' money to take these nice trips, come back and talk about how nice their city was, and not do anything about their own city! Nothing will result from this, watch! Nothing ever results! How can a city possess such a mentality? Why will nothing ever get done? I'm sick of it!
Quote from: stephendare on April 21, 2012, 08:14:07 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on April 21, 2012, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Bativac on April 21, 2012, 08:04:46 AM
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip? Will perhaps another study or paper be published? More talk about what Jacksonville may need to consider? Followed by more inaction and perhaps the destruction of a few more historic buildings?
I wonder if they've implemented anything in Jax from any of these trips, like ever? I'd also like to know the cost to send these do-nothings on annual trips like this.
The civic council idea was something they brought from Kansas City
Thank you, Stephen.
Anyone calling these people idiots or complaining about the lack of results is very uninformed. The new Downtown Investment Authority is a direct result of their trip to San Diego.
Personally, I'm proud to have a group of civic leaders that are concerned enough with our town to visit other municipalities to see where we can learn/improve. I PROMISE YOU, NONE OF THEM ARE GOING FOR A WEEKEND GETAWAY, they are all family men/women who make additional time for their passion(our city).
Quote from: downtownjag on April 21, 2012, 09:21:40 PM
Quote from: stephendare on April 21, 2012, 08:14:07 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on April 21, 2012, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Bativac on April 21, 2012, 08:04:46 AM
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip? Will perhaps another study or paper be published? More talk about what Jacksonville may need to consider? Followed by more inaction and perhaps the destruction of a few more historic buildings?
I wonder if they've implemented anything in Jax from any of these trips, like ever? I'd also like to know the cost to send these do-nothings on annual trips like this.
The civic council idea was something they brought from Kansas City
Thank you, Stephen.
Anyone calling these people idiots or complaining about the lack of results is very uninformed. The new Downtown Investment Authority is a direct result of their trip to San Diego.
Personally, I'm proud to have a group of civic leaders that are concerned enough with our town to visit other municipalities to see where we can learn/improve. I PROMISE YOU, NONE OF THEM ARE GOING FOR A WEEKEND GETAWAY, they are all family men/women who make additional time for their passion(our city).
Well I hope you're right. I really do hope something comes out of this.
Quote from: downtownjag on April 21, 2012, 09:21:40 PM
Quote from: stephendare on April 21, 2012, 08:14:07 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on April 21, 2012, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Bativac on April 21, 2012, 08:04:46 AM
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip? Will perhaps another study or paper be published? More talk about what Jacksonville may need to consider? Followed by more inaction and perhaps the destruction of a few more historic buildings?
I wonder if they've implemented anything in Jax from any of these trips, like ever? I'd also like to know the cost to send these do-nothings on annual trips like this.
The civic council idea was something they brought from Kansas City
Thank you, Stephen.
Anyone calling these people idiots or complaining about the lack of results is very uninformed. The new Downtown Investment Authority is a direct result of their trip to San Diego.
Personally, I'm proud to have a group of civic leaders that are concerned enough with our town to visit other municipalities to see where we can learn/improve. I PROMISE YOU, NONE OF THEM ARE GOING FOR A WEEKEND GETAWAY, they are all family men/women who make additional time for their passion(our city).
I applaud their passion and interest, but why visit yet another city, when they have been to a couple dozen already? Why not retreat to a local location like the Hyatt (and keep the money in the local economy) and reflect on what to do to IMPLEMENT the things they learned in San Diego, Kansas City and the multitude of other cities?
Do they not see a common thread among the things they see in these cities? The very things that this site has dedicated countless stories to? Will adding one more example of success bring Jacksonville success ?
Spend that time and money to take the next steps here, rather than re-learn what you already know.
The DIA is a great and needed first step, but what is next? How about figure out a way to get the Laura Trio project DONE!
I agree that at this point they should cut the trips & focus on getting stuff done at home. One or two things implemented (from likely dozens of trips) seems like kind of a waste. I mean, I could see if they were going to these places for specific purposes, like to seriously study Cincy's rail system (after deciding to do one here) or their food truck implementation, but what exactly are they expecting to find out that they don't already know (or couldn't make a phone call about)?
Jax needs more action & less talking.
Quote from: downtownjag on April 21, 2012, 09:21:40 PM
Quote from: stephendare on April 21, 2012, 08:14:07 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on April 21, 2012, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Bativac on April 21, 2012, 08:04:46 AM
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip? Will perhaps another study or paper be published? More talk about what Jacksonville may need to consider? Followed by more inaction and perhaps the destruction of a few more historic buildings?
I wonder if they've implemented anything in Jax from any of these trips, like ever? I'd also like to know the cost to send these do-nothings on annual trips like this.
The civic council idea was something they brought from Kansas City
Thank you, Stephen.
Anyone calling these people idiots or complaining about the lack of results is very uninformed. The new Downtown Investment Authority is a direct result of their trip to San Diego.
Personally, I'm proud to have a group of civic leaders that are concerned enough with our town to visit other municipalities to see where we can learn/improve. I PROMISE YOU, NONE OF THEM ARE GOING FOR A WEEKEND GETAWAY, they are all family men/women who make additional time for their passion(our city).
Yeah maybe idiots was harsh. It just seems like there are trips after trips and studies after studies, and our downtown has nothing to show for it besides a new roundabout on Laura St, a few bars, and a centrally-located park that the city is seriously considering stripping down to a bare patch.
I just don't see the need to continue to visit other cities. Not when there are obvious things they could be doing (not making it difficult to run a food truck downtown for example) that would improve things.
But I'm just some guy who lives here. Far from an expert.
Quote from: vicupstate on April 22, 2012, 09:52:08 AM
I applaud their passion and interest, but why visit yet another city, when they have been to a couple dozen already? Why not retreat to a local location like the Hyatt (and keep the money in the local economy) and reflect on what to do to IMPLEMENT the things they learned in San Diego, Kansas City and the multitude of other cities?
I think many of them would say they do this already
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 21, 2012, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on April 21, 2012, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Bativac on April 21, 2012, 08:04:46 AM
How many trips are these idiots going to take and what exactly are they getting out of them besides a free trip? Will perhaps another study or paper be published? More talk about what Jacksonville may need to consider? Followed by more inaction and perhaps the destruction of a few more historic buildings?
I wonder if they've implemented anything in Jax from any of these trips, like ever? I'd also like to know the cost to send these do-nothings on annual trips like this.
No, they've never implemented anything. Jacksonville politicians do whatever they can do get away from here and that's why they take these trips! They hate Jacksonville! They use taxpayers' money to take these nice trips, come back and talk about how nice their city was, and not do anything about their own city! Nothing will result from this, watch! Nothing ever results! How can a city possess such a mentality? Why will nothing ever get done? I'm sick of it!
Seems to me as if there is a great deal of confusion over who, or what the Chamber of Commerce is. Nationwide these are local business people bound together to improve the business climate, push for favorable laws, assist each other through networking, and introducing new business to the community. The C of C is not a division of the city government and while there might be some politician-business owners in the chamber, the chamber doesn't operate on the whims of politicians.
OCKLAWAHA
You're right, Ock, I didn't read it closely enough. Of course these guys can take as many trips as they want. God bless them in their travels.
Still, this is the scenario I imagine:
GUY #1: ...So, any ideas on how to improve downtown?
GUY #2: Uh... I heard they're gonna take the chairs and some of the trees out of Hemming Plaza...
GUY #3: Are there sumore buildings maybe the city could tear down?
GUY #4: I think we did a pretty good job making sure nobody starts any food truck businesses down there. That's something, right?
GUY #1: ...Anymore ideas?
GUY #2: I only got ONE idea... ROAD TRIP!!!
And then the press release follows: "We learned many important ideas on this trip and have formed a committee to review our study and compose a position paper which will present best practices going forward."
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 22, 2012, 01:44:28 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on April 22, 2012, 09:52:08 AM
I applaud their passion and interest, but why visit yet another city, when they have been to a couple dozen already? Why not retreat to a local location like the Hyatt (and keep the money in the local economy) and reflect on what to do to IMPLEMENT the things they learned in San Diego, Kansas City and the multitude of other cities?
I think many of them would say they do this already
If so, then what do they have to show for it?
And there will be numerous city officials and staffers taking this trip, if it is like the previous ones.
You folks are being really hard on our local Chamber of Commerce. Come on, you know when they went to China they brought home new trade routes to the orient, or maybe those trade routes were in the form of new currency into the pockets of Jerry Mallot and Wally Lee. These 2 lightening rods have been at the top of the CofC for many years now, and the vision of the chamber is really their own. They pull the levers behind the curtain, if you want a better Chamber, get some new blood.
The Cincy trip is a way for Mallot and Lee to line their pockets, on the annual junket. For everyone who hates the establishment and Good 'Ol Boy network, the Chamber is the ultimate Good Ol Boy network. You want to fix downtown, clean house at the chamber and start over with people focused on fixing downtown, instead of fixing their pockets.
Brown should tell them, no trip until we get more downtown activity going. That'll kick the Chamber into fifth gear!
I'd love to be a fly on the wall during these trips, see where they go, listen in on conversations, etc. I bet its the biggest bunch of bullshit you ever heard.
Quote from: peestandingup on April 23, 2012, 03:29:05 AM
I'd love to be a fly on the wall during these trips, see where they go, listen in on conversations, etc. I bet its the biggest bunch of bullshit you ever heard.
So pony up the membership fee, get on the bus, Gus and report back what the fly sees and hears.
^ exactly!
Quote from: comncense on April 20, 2012, 06:27:55 PM
32nd annual event... 32 trips and what has resulted from any of them? This is more like "Hey let's take a field trip to Cincinnati to hang out."
Maybe the next JCCI study should be 'Lessons Learned, and Projects Implemented from Chamber Trips' In all seriousness, the Chamber itself should want to know that.
Quote from: Ralph W on April 23, 2012, 07:43:42 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on April 23, 2012, 03:29:05 AM
I'd love to be a fly on the wall during these trips, see where they go, listen in on conversations, etc. I bet its the biggest bunch of bullshit you ever heard.
So pony up the membership fee, get on the bus, Gus and report back what the fly sees and hears.
Unrelated to the Chamber's vacation plans but - how do you joing the Chamber? I've been on their website a few times and I can't find anywhere on there how a small business owner joins. Is it an invitation only type of thing?
Quote from: vicupstate on April 23, 2012, 08:37:05 AM
Maybe the next JCCI study should be 'Lessons Learned, and Projects Implemented from Chamber Trips' In all seriousness, the Chamber itself should want to know that.
JCCI is currently developing ideas for studies over the next year....this might be a worthy idea
Call and ask. I'm fairly positive all you have to do is cut them a check.
Quote from: Bativac on April 23, 2012, 09:34:48 AM
Unrelated to the Chamber's vacation plans but - how do you joing the Chamber? I've been on their website a few times and I can't find anywhere on there how a small business owner joins. Is it an invitation only type of thing?
really?
if you go on their website, the top right corner includes a hotlink to "Join"
http://www.myjaxchamber.com/public/pub_join.aspx
Quote from: Bativac on April 22, 2012, 03:16:51 PM
Still, this is the scenario I imagine:
GUY #1: ...So, any ideas on how to improve downtown?
GUY #2: Uh... I heard they're gonna take the chairs and some of the trees out of Hemming Plaza...
GUY #3: Are there sumore buildings maybe the city could tear down?
GUY #4: I think we did a pretty good job making sure nobody starts any food truck businesses down there. That's something, right?
GUY #1: ...Anymore ideas?
GUY #2: I only got ONE idea... ROAD TRIP!!!
And then the press release follows: "We learned many important ideas on this trip and have formed a committee to review our study and compose a position paper which will present best practices going forward."
Seems like that's how it is, doesn't it?
Now that's funny, so they created a downtown investment from San Diego I rather have San Diego they can keep the investment
Someone please explain why streetcars on fixed rail is better than the Trolley which can alter routes without the need for laying new rails. Please don't tell me those streetcars are powered by overhead lines.
^ the short and simople answer is that fixed rail can and often does generate spinoff economic development that trolleys/buses do not.....for just the reason you stated...trolleys/buses can alter routes at anytime, so there is little encouragement from land owners and developers to invest along the route.
Who from around the country comes to Jacksonville to view our Economic powerhouse? I know cities come and view our structure for incorporation, but really, who comes to dream, I wish I had the economic engine of Jacksonville?
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 24, 2012, 12:13:15 PM
Who from around the country comes to Jacksonville to view our Economic powerhouse? I know cities come and view our structure for incorporation, but really, who comes to dream, I wish I had the economic engine of Jacksonville?
In the late '90's, Charlotte sent a delegation to Jax for one of these trips. At the time both were of similiar size, and both had just gotten an NFL franchise. Also, CLT was pondering Consolidation at the time.
Anyway, to quote the Charlotte Observer chief business writer (the equivalent of the T-U's Karen Brune Mathis at the time), the Charlotte folks came away very impressed - with Charlotte.
True story.
QuoteIn the late '90's, Charlotte sent a delegation to Jax for one of these trips. At the time both were of similiar size, and both had just gotten an NFL franchise.
Ask anyone on the board who got the better end of that trip, and then stand back....
Quote from: vicupstate on April 24, 2012, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 24, 2012, 12:13:15 PM
Who from around the country comes to Jacksonville to view our Economic powerhouse? I know cities come and view our structure for incorporation, but really, who comes to dream, I wish I had the economic engine of Jacksonville?
In the late '90's, Charlotte sent a delegation to Jax for one of these trips. At the time both were of similiar size, and both had just gotten an NFL franchise. Also, CLT was pondering Consolidation at the time.
Anyway, to quote the Charlotte Observer chief business writer (the equivalent of the T-U's Karen Brune Mathis at the time), the Charlotte folks came away very impressed - with Charlotte.
True story.
Same goes for Lakeland. A few years back they sent a delegation to Orlando (2005), Jacksonville (2006) and Memphis (2007) back to back. During their Jacksonville visit, since I had a direct relationship with both communities, they asked me to speak to their delegation about the characteristics of communities that have been successful in attracting young professionals.
For some reason, they also wanted to hear a different viewpoint from the standard public entity promotional and marketing pitch most communities present.
It was that meeting where a Publix executive, when directly asked, said they wouldn't be opening anything in downtown Jacksonville anytime soon because the demographics were no where close to being able to support a store.
http://lakelandedc.com/HighSkill/HSCityVisits.aspx
A year later, a friend of mine who works for the LEDC mentioned that they were more impressed with the vibrancy of Memphis. In recent years, they've visited Austin and San Diego and are now planning to visit San Francisco. I'm not going to waste me time asking for them to compare since I already know what the answer will be.