QuoteBy David Bauerlein
Paige Calvert had an “I’m out of here†attitude toward Northeast Florida after graduation from Clay High.
After she earned a business degree at the University of Florida, she headed to New York City.
But last January, Calvert returned to Jacksonville. Now 28, she is the community curator at Cowork Jax, a new venture that lets professionals and entrepreneurs share snazzy space in a downtown building.
“There is this sense that something is about to happen,†Calvert said. “I said OK, this is exciting.â€
For Northeast Florida, decisions by young professionals about where they live would help overcome one of the region’s biggest weaknesses â€" a shortfall of residents, particularly younger ones, who have earned at least a bachelor’s degree.
full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-04-17/story/jacksonville-fights-keep-fleeing-young-professionals
It's not hard to keep young professionals in a city. It just requires one simple concept: Make a city interesting, entertaining as well, to live in! I don't know why Jacksonville finds it so hard to do that. Instead of working with those who hold it back, stand up to them and say, "Fxxk you! We're doing this how we want it!" Does anyone know that Jacksonville is in ranked.com as "one of the most boring cities in the US"? I mean, if they learn, articles like this won't be published!
At times it does seem that we forget the impact of a community's quality of life on these decisions. Several cities have rivers and beaches. At some point, you can't just rely on your natural assets.
I've tried to stay offline in the past because of my position with the City and now to keep my nose clean; but, this is something I feel strongly about. Capital is more mobile than it has every been. It's not just mobile regionally or nationally, but globally. Today's young professional is more likely to make a location choice based on lifestyle issues than ever before. It doesn't take much research to figure out they are locating in cities that offer a dynamic urban lifestyle with a variety of mobility choices.
CEOs for Cities published a report they call the Talent Dividend. Their research indicates that for every %1 increase in college attainment there is a $763 increase in per capita income. Some simple math indicates that just striving for average would net 2.5 billion dollars for Duval County annually. That's a powerful argument for Jacksonville adding a vibrant urban product to it's real estate portfolio.
However, there's more. This is a group that clearly values education. I leave it to you to discuss whether we provide a market that values education ...
Bill
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 18, 2012, 04:06:14 AM
It's not hard to keep young professionals in a city. It just requires one simple concept: Make a city interesting, entertaining as well, to live in! I don't know why Jacksonville finds it so hard to do that. Instead of working with those who hold it back, stand up to them and say, "Fxxk you! We're doing this how we want it!" Does anyone know that Jacksonville is in ranked.com as "one of the most boring cities in the US"? I mean, if they learn, articles like this won't be published!
The voice which shouts POWER TO THE CORE needs to be louder than all the others. The urban core has to compete against the interests of suburbia.
A good place to start is with the Hemming Park discussion.
Young professionals want a green city, mass transit options, walk-ability, density, entertainment / arts. Kudos: hours after the article everyone here is pointing that out (seemed to be relatively absent in the newspaper article).
It has remained relatively absent in most recent economic development topics regarding downtown and Jacksonville as a whole. It's a shame because Jacksonville has so much potential in being a place that can attract and retain educated young professionals, which in the long run, will also help the public education situation. It's a "best practice" that I really hope our leaders don't underestimate and ignore in the upcoming months.
I'm 35. I'm a native of Jacksonville. I came home 11 years ago after law school in Tallahassee. Ever since I was 18, I've watched wave after wave of friends leave Jacksonville for college, for jobs, for love - for opportunity. Few have returned.
There is just not much opportunity for educated and adjusted people in this town. It's a painful thing to admit, since I've been a civic cheerleader for going on two decades.
Of the many friends who've left without looking back, most fled Jacksonville, among other things, because of perceived intolerance of difference in this town. And it's not just a perception. Jacksonville remains the only major city in Florida without the very most basic of nondiscrimination protections. We're watching as places like Daytona and Venice bypass us. A discussion of "diversity" in this town means only race, and then, only black and white.
Any discussion about economic development, and keeping our talented young people, or bringing them back, needs to consider that cities with a high concentration of the creative class are cities that don't merely tolerate difference, but embrace it. I will admit that it's one of many factors - but it should be considered among them.
Read what someone posted at www.creativeclass.com:
Drab sprawl
"Except for a couple of neighborhoods bordering downtown and three or four blocks near the beach (20 miles out from downtown), everything in Jacksonville is drab, ugly office-park suburban sprawl. Distances are such that more people drive more miles than even in other Sun Belt cities, let alone the rest of the world. Almost everyplace looks the same. Crime is not the worst in the United States, but not great either. The closest thing to a research university here is the University of North Florida, which is basically a local school. People are not at all well educated; generally very working-class and politically to the Right of Attilla the Hun (unless they are black). The only positives: 1) a few beautiful old neighborhoods near the St. Johns River near downtown2) cheap real estate (though not by Rust Belt standards- you can get a house in a decent inner-suburban area for under 0K, but just barely)- and of course the weather is a positive for some.
I live here because my work is very specialized and so its not easy to switch jobs."
Sent by Settling from Jacksonville, FL
Posted in Florida, Jacksonville
I think this is possibly the biggest problem Jacksonville has. The attrition of its educated or more talented youth. Of course, a variety of larger problems are causing this, but I think in order to make effective and lasting change, we have to stop the outflow of youth.
When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to leave Jacksonville. It was something I always thought was a given for me. I went to a private high school, and just like there was an expectation that you go to college, there was an expectation that you leave Jacksonville. I can vividly remember having conversations about it. In fact the phrase used was something along the lines of, "Jacksonville is a good town to raise a family in, but that's way down the line, I wouldn't come back until then". Problem is that by "then" you've already got an established family in a better city.
I'm 30 now, and if it hadn't been for a family business, I wouldn't have come back. It's really funny, but when I meet new people not originally from Jacksonville, one thing they say to me is "You don't meet many people from Jacksonville"...which I always think is a weird statement, but if that's been their experience, then I give it some credence.
I feel like the Jax area is a mecca for the late-30 and 40 somethings with young kids. Only problem is the vast majority choose to live in gated communities in NW St. Johns County where they can send their kids to A-rated schools. The younger single professionals and the DINKS (who I believe we are all talking about here) leave Jax because they're not interested in A-rated schools. They're interested in the things JDOG mentioned: "a green city, mass transit options, walk-ability, density, entertainment / arts". We have some of those things...however we're woefully behind most other cities. Because of this, most young professional don't come back to Jax after graduation or don't relocate here from another city.
I have friends from Jax that left for Boston, Chicago, NYC and Charlotte after college. Now that they are starting to have kids many are considering moving back down here for various reasons. That's not a bad thing, but we need to be able to attract a wider spectrum of young people-not just young families.
Quote from: BillKillingsworth on April 18, 2012, 07:57:26 AM
I've tried to stay offline in the past because of my position with the City and now to keep my nose clean; but, this is something I feel strongly about. Capital is more mobile than it has every been. It's not just mobile regionally or nationally, but globally. Today's young professional is more likely to make a location choice based on lifestyle issues than ever before. It doesn't take much research to figure out they are locating in cities that offer a dynamic urban lifestyle with a variety of mobility choices.
CEOs for Cities published a report they call the Talent Dividend. Their research indicates that for every %1 increase in college attainment there is a $763 increase in per capita income. Some simple math indicates that just striving for average would net 2.5 billion dollars for Duval County annually. That's a powerful argument for Jacksonville adding a vibrant urban product to it's real estate portfolio.
However, there's more. This is a group that clearly values education. I leave it to you to discuss whether we provide a market that values education ...
Bill
welcome Bill!
I'm not exactly the toast of the town & have tons of friends, but I honestly don't know anyone in Jax that came here because they actually wanted to. Seems like it's always by some default, they have some ties here or got stuck in a job. I mean, I'm sure they exist, I just don't personally know of any. And that includes myself & my wife.
Young pros aren't stupid. They can do the math & Jax just doesn't add up to be a good deal for most. There's no transit, no walkability/bike-ability, no downtown to really speak of, not a whole lot of functions & stuff going on in general, etc. And if you're coming with a young family (or planning on one), then you're probably gonna have to pay for private schools since most the public ones are awful, have 2 cars & a long ass commute anywhere you go in town. All that stuff makes it pretty unattractive & not worth the overall cost for what the city gives you in return. And the leaders don't seem like they understand these things at all & are still living in the 70s & 80s.
Seriously, having nice weather, rivers & beaches are great & all, but you can only brag on that stuff so much. Its not like you can really do anything in the river, and you can't eat the weather. So there has to be more things of real substance.
QuoteSome simple math indicates that just striving for average would net 2.5 billion dollars for Duval County annually. That's a powerful argument for Jacksonville adding a vibrant urban product to it's real estate portfolio.
+1 and thank you for speaking out Bill!!! Your voice is needed.
I've always wondered if part of our dearth of college educated residents is due to the lack of higher education options. This is a statewide issue: we just don't have many colleges, let alone a diversity of college environments, compared to literally every other state this side of the Mississippi.
In other states the pattern involves a diversity of state and private colleges of different sizes and specialties all across the state. In North Carolina, for instance, it seems that every other town has its own college; the bigger cities have four or five or more. Both public and private colleges vary in size, specialty, and learning environment, and are spread across small towns, classic college towns, and major metro areas.
The options are much more limited in Florida. We have our two "big name" schools, but otherwise there's a much smaller proportion of colleges in small towns, and the bigger cities rarely have more than about two colleges of size. Instead of offering a variety of environments, the majority of our state universities are cultivating the same type of environment: enormous, heavy on research, and of course, football-equipped. Not everyone thrives in a school like that.
I imagine a lack of local options contributes to our best and brightest so often looking not only out of town, but out of state for college, and then not returning.
Of course Jacksonville would use the 'chicken and the egg' excuse. We use that for everything. We throw up our hands and say "It's just too tough to figure out, we'll just hope the market will take care of itself". We end up working on attracting neither the chicken nor the egg.
^LOL, I hate that excuse as well. It's basically a code word for doing nothing.
Well I did read in this weeks Business Journal that the IT company InterDev is expanding to Jax. They're planning on creating "two new jobs by the beginning of May". That's a whole two new jobs we didn't have before. Baby steps I suppose ::)
In addition to all of the great points that others have made, I'll add that salaries in Jacksonville are not competitive for professionals compared to our peer cities. In addition to entertainment, dining, and other quality of life issues, money can be a major motivation for a 20-something professional to stay or relocate to a city.
According to the ABA, the following is a list of median wages for attorneys in other Florida cities and some of our peer cities in the Southeast. (Keep in mind that starting wages for new associates will be lower.)
Duval Co., FL $79,480
Miami-Dade Co., FL $104,630
Orange Co., FL $98,790
Hillsborough Co., FL $91,310
Davidson Co., TN (Nashville) $100,320
Jefferson Co., AL (Birmingham) $108,000
Shelby Co., TN (Memphis) $100,120
Jefferson Co., KY (Louisville) $96,480
Mecklenburg Co., NC (Charlotte) $114,380
Attorneys in the second lowest paying city (Tampa) earn 15% more than Jacksonville attorneys, and attorneys in the highest paying city (Charlotte) earn nearly 50% more!
Even ignoring all of the quality of life issues that we've discussed, if you're a UF or FSU law grad, would you head to Jacksonville over Miami, etc.?
After spending six years at FSU and then living in Atlanta for five I deciced to return. While in school I never heard anyone say I am going to move to Jacksonville after I graduate. We have two of the biggest state universities within 1.5hr to 2.5hr drive of Jacksonville and to not to attract those students is a huge loss. We may never be able to compete with Boston, Chicago or NYC, but we should be competing with Charlotte, Raleigh, Austin's of the country.
I typed up a really long response, but it really all boils down to a few things.
There are really three types of young professionals, the single and usually younger faster living crowd, the married with children well educated couple, and the DINK couple who love to travel and are moving towards having their first kid. I am in that first group of people, so I can mainly just speak to their needs.
Most of my friends and I care about just a few things, getting paid, being physically active/outdoors, basic necessities, and going out and having fun. On most days, I am only home for about one waking hour. I am usually out of town between 1 and 2 weekends a month. Cramming all of this in to a 24 hour day means that convenience is key. In Jax that means walkable if possible, or a short commute and easy parking if not. The only areas where this is remotely possible is the southside, riverside, and the beaches. Most of the jobs in town for people my age are on the southside, so I don't blame people for living there. I find the QOL to be higher in Riverside, so I give up about an hour of my day to commute back and forth.
There aren't great options for dining, nightlife, and shopping in town, but you learn to make do. It's like the girl in your calculus class that didn't look attractive at all on the first day of class, but by the end of the year you swear she's at least an 8. It's all relative. Young people can't afford the best all the time, but they do have minimum standards. Those minimum standards are scattered around town but not in large numbers and not in the concentration that you would like.
For housing it's pretty much the same thing. You're only going to be there for about 10 waking hours of any week and often times less than that, but while you're there the space needs to be very functional and convenient and it can't break the bank. No need for granite counter tops but fully equipped kitchen, washer/dryer, adequate closets, and a decent bathroom are all crucial. There is very little of this at the beach that is affordable, very little in riverside that meats convenience standards, and a glut of this on the southside.
I have plenty of friends from school that really wanted to stay here but for various reasons (most already mentioned in this thread), they have moved to places like Atlanta, Charlotte and the DC area. Having spent plenty of time in Charlotte, it is becoming an ideal place for young professionals.
QuoteHaving spent plenty of time in Charlotte, it is becoming an ideal place for young professionals.
If our city leadership would have taken note about what was happening in Charlotte years ago, we could be right with them. As it stands now we are about 20 years behind them. That is really unfortunate. We need to learn from cities that are similar to us but progressing forward- not ignore them. The food truck issue is a great example of what other cities are doing and what we're missing out on. It's baffling and sad.
I think it also depends on your personality also. I fit into the "young professional" category and Im college educated ( and still going as we speak). Jacksonville is fine with me because Im not hard to please. As long as I have something to do when I get in the mood, Im fine. Im not really one to live the "fast" life, so I could care less about options. I go to Jags game, hit a few house parties, hit a few clubs, dine out every now and then, travel with my group I sing with and Im good. I actually live a very comfortable life given that I dont make a whole lot.
I am determined to stay in Jacksonville. I am a young educated professional and we all cant just pack up leave. WE will never get anywhere that way. I just purchased a home here so Im not going anywhere. I really just want to change the image of Jacksonville. Being that Im africian Amercian, there is also a perception that all blacks in Jacksonville are "Ghetto" "uneducated' and "thugs". There also the perception that educated people dont live in Jacksonville and we are all rednecks. I want to change that.
It's frustrating the article doesn't address what the city can actually do to improve things (improve transit, cultivate an urban environment more and more young people are looking for, etc) - it feels like just another "it is what it is" piece. The "chicken and egg" excuse is pretty weak and getting old.
Quote from: cline on April 18, 2012, 11:35:56 AM
QuoteHaving spent plenty of time in Charlotte, it is becoming an ideal place for young professionals.
If our city leadership would have taken note about what was happening in Charlotte years ago, we could be right with them. As it stands now we are about 20 years behind them. That is really unfortunate. We need to learn from cities that are similar to us but progressing forward- not ignore them. The food truck issue is a great example of what other cities are doing and what we're missing out on. It's baffling and sad.
I was in Charlotte last month and was given tickets to a Bobcats game. The arena is brand new and right downtown. On either side of the arena is a new hotel. Across the street is a complex with garage parking and plenty of restaurants and bars. Also across the street is a transportation center with a rail station. There was a lot of foot traffic before the game going in all directions. Same after the game.
I was very envious.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2012, 11:55:37 AM
It's frustrating the article doesn't address what the city can actually do to improve things
It says the JAXUSA Partnership and the Northeast Florida Regional Council study will "unveil specific recommendations Thursday".
It'll be interesting to see what they have to say.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on April 18, 2012, 11:38:46 AM
I think it also depends on your personality also. I fit into the "young professional" category and Im college educated ( and still going as we speak). Jacksonville is fine with me because Im not hard to please. As long as I have something to do when I get in the mood, Im fine. Im not really one to live the "fast" life, so I could care less about options. I go to Jags game, hit a few house parties, hit a few clubs, dine out every now and then, travel with my group I sing with and Im good. I actually live a very comfortable life given that I dont make a whole lot.
I am determined to stay in Jacksonville. I am a young educated professional and we all cant just pack up leave. WE will never get anywhere that way. I just purchased a home here so Im not going anywhere. I really just want to change the image of Jacksonville. Being that Im africian Amercian, there is also a perception that all blacks in Jacksonville are "Ghetto" "uneducated' and "thugs". There also the perception that educated people dont live in Jacksonville and we are all rednecks. I want to change that.
I'm an African-American young professional with school age kids. Being that I have a few extra responsibilities, I don't spend a considerable amount of time at bars and clubs, but I still do value well maintained urban parks, reliable mass transit, culture, good public schools, walkability and getting the most bang for my buck. Before moving to Jax, I had a house in Central Florida and hated it. I'm in my mid-30's now and I have no desire to ever own a single family home again. Ideally, I'd love a rowhouse/townhouse and searched hard for one in and around downtown when I moved to town. Needless to say, I found a limited supply (the Parks was about the only option around) and higher asking prices for urban living in environments that didn't offer the basic urban amenities I was seeking. Thus, I ended up on the Southside by default because the amount of housing stock and supporting services gave me the most bang for my buck. With that said, I do use my locally earned disposable income on a regular basis, visiting peer communities that allow me the opportunity to enjoy those basic urban amenities that we lack locally. I'm totally invested in the community and would love to see things improve here but I'm also not willing to blow my younger years missing out on things I value.
QuoteI was in Charlotte last month and was given tickets to a Bobcats game.
my apologies
Quote from: cline on April 18, 2012, 11:35:56 AM
If our city leadership would have taken note about what was happening in Charlotte years ago, we could be right with them. As it stands now we are about 20 years behind them. That is really unfortunate. We need to learn from cities that are similar to us but progressing forward- not ignore them.
Flying through the Charlotte airport a few weeks ago, I noticed some posters by the Chamber of Commerce or similar organization promoting Charlotte to the world. The posters had three photographs--one of the skyline, one of nature (I believe), and one of Charlotte LYNX (their light rail system). That's right--when the city had to choose three images to promote their city, they devoted one of the images to rail transit. Yes, if only Jacksonville could learn.
I don't disagree with what most are saying, but just to stir the pot a little, reread the first paragraph:
QuotePaige Calvert had an “I’m out of here†attitude toward Northeast Florida after graduation from Clay High.
After she earned a business degree at the University of Florida, she headed to New York City.
But last January, Calvert returned to Jacksonville. Now 28, she is the community curator at Cowork Jax, a new venture that lets professionals and entrepreneurs share snazzy space in a downtown building.
And ask yourself why Paige REALLY came back.
While we may not have all the glitz and splash and 24-7 events as a New York, Atlanta, Boston or LA, there's also not 15k other people competing for the same job/apartment/dinner reservation, etc... So while there are plenty of other opportunities elsewhere, there is also more intense competition.
I don't think anyone expects Jax to have a similar environment to what a cities several times its size does. The same would go for all of our true peers (Charlotte, Memphis, Austin, Richmond, Louisville, Nashville, etc.) However, is it too much to expect a higher quality of life for all areas of our community? Is it too much to ask for well maintained parks with amenities in the urban core or multiple vibrant neighborhoods that offer an environment that doesn't require 20 minute commute for basic services?
If you assume CEOS for Cities data is accurate and the ratio of general revenue to total income remains the same, raising college attainment to the national average could mean a $115+ million annual increase to the City's general fund.
Duval County per Capita Income $25,854
Duval County population 864,263
Total County Income $22,344,655,602
COJ GSD Revenue $990,000,000
GSD Revenue/ Total Income 0.0443
Value of a 1% increase in
college attainment $659,432,669
A 4% increase to make us average $2,637,730,676
Additional annual GSD Revenue $116,851,469
*Data from American Fact Finder, CEOs for Cities, and COJ
The economic benefits of this single strategy (raising college attainment) illustrates the scale of impact improving our downtown and education can make.
Quote from: finehoe on April 18, 2012, 12:06:16 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2012, 11:55:37 AM
It's frustrating the article doesn't address what the city can actually do to improve things
It says the JAXUSA Partnership and the Northeast Florida Regional Council study will "unveil specific recommendations Thursday".
It'll be interesting to see what they have to say.
Great...more recommendations that will go unheeded and never be implemented. We can just go ahead and lump these in with all the other studies like the ones JCCI does. We need more action and less lip service.
QuoteAnd ask yourself why Paige REALLY came back
In defense of Paige... she did some REALLY cool work up in New York. I'm glad she's now over at CoWork. She's doing a lot of behind the scenes stuff to get the conversation of making Jax attractive for the Creative Class moving forward. She's already a real gem in this city IMO.
To whoever metioned some new IT company in Jax... Jax actually does have a good market for IT-related jobs. However the city isn't attractive to the kinds of people this article speaks to. Those are the kind of people that are going to bring creativity and innovation to this city.
I have a lot of friends that are extremely talented people who genuinely care about the city... but unfortunately it is a stifling environment.
I honestly believe the NUMBER ONE issue facing this city is engaging and embracing young professionals. It's been my main focus in life since the last election.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 18, 2012, 12:08:45 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on April 18, 2012, 11:38:46 AM
I think it also depends on your personality also. I fit into the "young professional" category and Im college educated ( and still going as we speak). Jacksonville is fine with me because Im not hard to please. As long as I have something to do when I get in the mood, Im fine. Im not really one to live the "fast" life, so I could care less about options. I go to Jags game, hit a few house parties, hit a few clubs, dine out every now and then, travel with my group I sing with and Im good. I actually live a very comfortable life given that I dont make a whole lot.
I am determined to stay in Jacksonville. I am a young educated professional and we all cant just pack up leave. WE will never get anywhere that way. I just purchased a home here so Im not going anywhere. I really just want to change the image of Jacksonville. Being that Im africian Amercian, there is also a perception that all blacks in Jacksonville are "Ghetto" "uneducated' and "thugs". There also the perception that educated people dont live in Jacksonville and we are all rednecks. I want to change that.
I'm an African-American young professional with school age kids. Being that I have a few extra responsibilities, I don't spend a considerable amount of time at bars and clubs, but I still do value well maintained urban parks, reliable mass transit, culture, good public schools, walkability and getting the most bang for my buck. Before moving to Jax, I had a house in Central Florida and hated it. I'm in my mid-30's now and I have no desire to ever own a single family home again. Ideally, I'd love a rowhouse/townhouse and searched hard for one in and around downtown when I moved to town. Needless to say, I found a limited supply (the Parks was about the only option around) and higher asking prices for urban living in environments that didn't offer the basic urban amenities I was seeking. Thus, I ended up on the Southside by default because the amount of housing stock and supporting services gave me the most bang for my buck. With that said, I do use my locally earned disposable income on a regular basis, visiting peer communities that allow me the opportunity to enjoy those basic urban amenities that we lack locally. I'm totally invested in the community and would love to see things improve here but I'm also not willing to blow my younger years missing out on things I value.
+100
Quote from: BillKillingsworth on April 18, 2012, 07:57:26 AM
I've tried to stay offline in the past because of my position with the City and now to keep my nose clean; but, this is something I feel strongly about. Capital is more mobile than it has every been. It's not just mobile regionally or nationally, but globally. Today's young professional is more likely to make a location choice based on lifestyle issues than ever before. It doesn't take much research to figure out they are locating in cities that offer a dynamic urban lifestyle with a variety of mobility choices.
CEOs for Cities published a report they call the Talent Dividend. Their research indicates that for every %1 increase in college attainment there is a $763 increase in per capita income. Some simple math indicates that just striving for average would net 2.5 billion dollars for Duval County annually. That's a powerful argument for Jacksonville adding a vibrant urban product to it's real estate portfolio.
However, there's more. This is a group that clearly values education. I leave it to you to discuss whether we provide a market that values education ...
Bill
Bill, perhaps you can be our inside voice?
Quote from: JaxByDefault on April 18, 2012, 12:27:09 PM
Quote from: cline on April 18, 2012, 11:35:56 AM
If our city leadership would have taken note about what was happening in Charlotte years ago, we could be right with them. As it stands now we are about 20 years behind them. That is really unfortunate. We need to learn from cities that are similar to us but progressing forward- not ignore them.
Flying through the Charlotte airport a few weeks ago, I noticed some posters by the Chamber of Commerce or similar organization promoting Charlotte to the world. The posters had three photographs--one of the skyline, one of nature (I believe), and one of Charlotte LYNX (their light rail system). That's right--when the city had to choose three images to promote their city, they devoted one of the images to rail transit. Yes, if only Jacksonville could learn.
Not to be negative, but if Jacksonville hasn't learned yet, it's not going to now.
Quote from: fsquid on April 18, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
QuoteI was in Charlotte last month and was given tickets to a Bobcats game.
my apologies
LOL. I thought of that after I typed it. Not great basketball but hard to pass up free tickets to an NBA game. Terrific arena but probably only 6k or so people at the game.
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 18, 2012, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: JaxByDefault on April 18, 2012, 12:27:09 PM
Quote from: cline on April 18, 2012, 11:35:56 AM
If our city leadership would have taken note about what was happening in Charlotte years ago, we could be right with them. As it stands now we are about 20 years behind them. That is really unfortunate. We need to learn from cities that are similar to us but progressing forward- not ignore them.
Flying through the Charlotte airport a few weeks ago, I noticed some posters by the Chamber of Commerce or similar organization promoting Charlotte to the world. The posters had three photographs--one of the skyline, one of nature (I believe), and one of Charlotte LYNX (their light rail system). That's right--when the city had to choose three images to promote their city, they devoted one of the images to rail transit. Yes, if only Jacksonville could learn.
Not to be negative, but if Jacksonville hasn't learned yet, it's not going to now.
That remains the issue, doesn't it? Think small and you get small.
Quote from: copperfiend on April 18, 2012, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: fsquid on April 18, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
QuoteI was in Charlotte last month and was given tickets to a Bobcats game.
my apologies
LOL. I thought of that after I typed it. Not great basketball but hard to pass up free tickets to an NBA game. Terrific arena but probably only 6k or so people at the game.
They should have paid you to take their tickets. Jordan has run that team into the ground.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 18, 2012, 12:53:56 PM
I don't think anyone expects Jax to have a similar environment to what a cities several times its size does. The same would go for all of our true peers (Charlotte, Memphis, Austin, Richmond, Louisville, Nashville, etc.) However, is it too much to expect a higher quality of life for all areas of our community? Is it too much to ask for well maintained parks with amenities in the urban core or multiple vibrant neighborhoods that offer an environment that doesn't require 20 minute commute for basic services?
You know what Jacksonville would love that we could take straight from a mega city. All of the little areas outside of Chicago where transit touches. Around the stations there emerges small (Relative to the core of Chicago) walkable and drivable communities with many different flavors. Pockets of density that have urban type amenities without going into the city. Almost everywhere they stop a little five point or San Marco square seems to be the center of vibrant communities. In the outlying communities most people have and use their cars but the transit still benefits them. The development pattern pays for the transit many times over.
The biggest problem with Jacksonville is what this article says. I've been reading so many articles and it's been exactly like this. Even our previous mayors have said the same thing.
"Jacksonville is fine. We just need to keep doing what we're doing. Our main problem is image. We just need to do more marketing to them. Once we do that, everything will be fine."
All we need to do is market our downtown and people will stop seeing Jacksonville as a flyover city instead of a destination. All we need to do is to tell these college kids that Jacksonville is fine with a few ads and maybe a few businesses to lecture them and they will stop going away.
If people here can't see the problem with this, I don't think Jacksonville will ever be a destination for smart young people because according to them, there is nothing wrong with Jacksonville FL. If nothing is wrong, nothing needs to be fixed.
We are doing some good things lately the Craft Beer movement here in town in particular. Downtown developing a night life is helping. We are starting to college graduates who grew up with the Jags as their favorite team. Restaurant scene both local and chain have improved in the last five years. We wasted too much time during the construction boom not getting things done downtown but the recovery has some downtown focus. Our biggest GOB club the Civic Council is even pro urban vibrancy.
We had the politicians here vote in the Mobility Fee though their knees failed them recently. (We have to continue to pressure them to sunset the Moratorium).
Last but certainly not least we have seen this Website able to create enough community pressure and bring such exposure to some bad policy's and have the city reverse course when needed.
It is not all doom and gloom but we do need to change the game on the "Brain Drain".
Quote from: copperfiend on April 18, 2012, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: fsquid on April 18, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
QuoteI was in Charlotte last month and was given tickets to a Bobcats game.
my apologies
LOL. I thought of that after I typed it. Not great basketball but hard to pass up free tickets to an NBA game. Terrific arena but probably only 6k or so people at the game.
When I lived there, they routinely did buy one get one free for games after New Year's
Quote from: fieldafm on April 18, 2012, 01:04:14 PM
QuoteAnd ask yourself why Paige REALLY came back
In defense of Paige... she did some REALLY cool work up in New York. I'm glad she's now over at CoWork. She's doing a lot of behind the scenes stuff to get the conversation of making Jax attractive for the Creative Class moving forward. She's already a real gem in this city IMO.
No need to defend her, it wasn't a personal attack, just a question.
But this:
QuoteThe biggest problem with Jacksonville is what this article says. I've been reading so many articles and it's been exactly like this. Even our previous mayors have said the same thing.
"Jacksonville is fine. We just need to keep doing what we're doing. Our main problem is image. We just need to do more marketing to them. Once we do that, everything will be fine."
All we need to do is market our downtown and people will stop seeing Jacksonville as a flyover city instead of a destination. All we need to do is to tell these college kids that Jacksonville is fine with a few ads and maybe a few businesses to lecture them and they will stop going away.
If people here can't see the problem with this, I don't think Jacksonville will ever be a destination for smart young people because according to them, there is nothing wrong with Jacksonville FL. If nothing is wrong, nothing needs to be fixed.
If you look at it from a, 'How to Market Jacksonville" angle, I would say that we should use examples like Paige to push for the college grads. Jacksonville, fortunately, is not and will never be like NYC or Chicago, and we are behind our peer cities like Nashville and Charlotte, so what do we have to offer? Huge amounts of opportunity. And not in the normal sense, but in the sense of if we could attract enough of the type of person who is capable of free-thinking and out of the box ambition, Jacksonvile is ripe with opportunity to be molded in their image to become the city they want instead of having to conform to an already defined place.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on April 18, 2012, 02:08:00 PM
If you look at it from a, 'How to Market Jacksonville" angle, I would say that we should use examples like Paige to push for the college grads. Jacksonville, fortunately, is not and will never be like NYC or Chicago, and we are behind our peer cities like Nashville and Charlotte, so what do we have to offer? Huge amounts of opportunity. And not in the normal sense, but in the sense of if we could attract enough of the type of person who is capable of free-thinking and out of the box ambition, Jacksonvile is ripe with opportunity to be molded in their image to become the city they want instead of having to conform to an already defined place.
From what your saying, it sounds like in Jacksonville, they are free to be whatever they want but in someplace like NYC, they have to confirm to something? I'm not sure that's what NYC or Chicago is like.
Don't forget, thirty or so years ago, Jacksonville's peer cities was closer to NYC or Chicago then the ones everyone here is comparing itself to today. Stephen posted an article here about Harlem once being called "The Jacksonville of the North".
Quote from: cityimrov on April 18, 2012, 02:43:17 PM
From what your saying, it sounds like in Jacksonville, they are free to be whatever they want but in someplace like NYC, they have to confirm to something? I'm not sure that's what NYC or Chicago is like.
Not at all. I'm saying the level of competition among your peers in NYC and Chicago, soon to be Nashville and Charlotte, is that you have to fight everyday just to be anonymous. Here, since we're not a 'chosen' city, you have more opportunity to become more.
QuoteI would say that we should use examples like Paige to push for the college grads.
Oh, if you could see an application I just submitted....
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on April 18, 2012, 02:50:53 PM
Quote from: cityimrov on April 18, 2012, 02:43:17 PM
From what your saying, it sounds like in Jacksonville, they are free to be whatever they want but in someplace like NYC, they have to confirm to something? I'm not sure that's what NYC or Chicago is like.
Not at all. I'm saying the level of competition among your peers in NYC and Chicago, soon to be Nashville and Charlotte, is that you have to fight everyday just to be anonymous. Here, since we're not a 'chosen' city, you have more opportunity to become more.
I'm not sure about that. I know a guy who earn a hefty salary and does way more things than he could have done in Jacksonville by just being anonymous. You can be well known but does that help your career in any way?
If I want to work on stem cell research and development, does being well known in Jacksonville help me in any way vs being anonymous in a city like Minneapolis or Rochester?
Quote from: cityimrov on April 18, 2012, 03:00:10 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on April 18, 2012, 02:50:53 PM
Quote from: cityimrov on April 18, 2012, 02:43:17 PM
From what your saying, it sounds like in Jacksonville, they are free to be whatever they want but in someplace like NYC, they have to confirm to something? I'm not sure that's what NYC or Chicago is like.
Not at all. I'm saying the level of competition among your peers in NYC and Chicago, soon to be Nashville and Charlotte, is that you have to fight everyday just to be anonymous. Here, since we're not a 'chosen' city, you have more opportunity to become more.
I'm not sure about that. I know a guy who earn a hefty salary and does way more things than he could have done in Jacksonville by just being anonymous. You can be well known but does that help your career in any way?
If I want to work on stem cell research and development, does being well known in Jacksonville help me in any way vs being anonymous in a city like Minneapolis ?
It's not about being well know, it's about being able to influence policies and decision making for the region.
Sure, you can benefit lots of people with your stem cell research in Minneapolis, anonymously for a large firm and sure you might get a bump in pay for your new discovery. Or..... You have your degree in bio-engineering, and move to Jacksonville and start a small reseach department, make that same new discovery that eventually becomes the Cityimrov Stem-Cell Research Ward at UF Shands. Next thing you know, we're the hotbed of all national Stem Cell R&D on the eastern seaboard. Why? Because the market here is wide open and it takes smart, young ambitious people to make things happen and here you still have the opportunity to get in at the ground level.
And I know I'm painting a really rosy picture, but we're marketing, right?
Simms actually painted a real picture the situation faced here http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,13339.msg247667.html#msg247667
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on April 18, 2012, 03:13:21 PM
...start a small reseach department, make that same new discovery that eventually becomes the Cityimrov Stem-Cell Research Ward at UF Shands.
I never said jump into an existing market. I'm saying someone has to start it. We have to figure a way to lure that person here. We have to focus on what CAN happen.
I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. This is a significantly higher percentage than even most of Florida's other state universities; for instance, about 100,000 of 250,000 USF graduates (40%) have stayed in the Tampa Bay area. This pattern has apparently kept up among recent graduates, including the 40% if our students who are not originally from the Jacksonville metro area.
This means that a significant portion of UNF graduates, including graduates who aren't originally from Jacksonville, are choosing to stay in Jacksonville after graduating. Overall, however, we're not producing very many college graduates - UNF is by far the biggest local school, but only has 60,000 graduates, in a metro area of over 1,000,000. This goes back to my earlier point about Florida's limited college options. I notice that Tampa scores similarly to us.
There's not much we can do about that. Neither UNF nor the other colleges are going to grow substantially (and UNF will never grow beyond about 25,000 students a year), and at this point it's unlikely that anyone will start an additional college (a real college, not a for-profit). But there are other things that can be done. UNF is currently working on improving its graduation rate, which would increase the local number of graduates. However, the rest is going to be in the city's hands to cultivate an environment attractive to college graduates.
^Charlotte basically gave a college an incentive deal it couldn't refuse to pick up and move from a different state to Uptown in the early 2000s. Where there is a will, there's a way.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 18, 2012, 04:10:01 PM
^Charlotte basically gave a college an incentive deal it couldn't refuse to pick up and move from a different state to Uptown in the early 2000s. Where there is a will, there's a way.
Well, that was an unusual situation. In this day and age it's so difficult to start a school, you can't count on that stuff to happen. Though you need to be ready to pounce when it does happen. We couldn't even get it together enough to convince the law school to move into the area where all the law stuff's at.
Yes, we dropped the ball on Florida Coastal. You're right. You have to be ready to pounce when unusual opportunities pop up.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2012, 03:51:51 PM
I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. This is a significantly higher percentage than even most of Florida's other state universities; for instance, about 100,000 of 250,000 USF graduates (40%) have stayed in the Tampa Bay area.
Keep in mind that USF started 15-20 years before UNF and now has over 50,000 students. Basically it has larger brand recognition and reach. This will change as UNF continues to grow and attract students from out of the area, state, and even country.
as for UNF never being more than 25,000 students, I think you're wrong...their campus master plan calls for 23,000 by 2020 and I'm betting that estimate is low
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2012, 03:51:51 PM
I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. T
This means that a significant portion of UNF graduates, including graduates who aren't originally from Jacksonville, are choosing to stay in Jacksonville after graduating.
Yeah but how many of the graduates were originally from Jacksonville. I would like to know that because I bet the number is very high. For a long time UNF basically pulled most of its students from Jax. That is beginning to change now. But if only 36k graduates are choosing to stay in Jax and say, for example, 50k of the 60k total graduates are originally from Jax, then we're losing UNF grads to other cities.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 18, 2012, 04:46:37 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2012, 03:51:51 PM
I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. This is a significantly higher percentage than even most of Florida's other state universities; for instance, about 100,000 of 250,000 USF graduates (40%) have stayed in the Tampa Bay area.
Keep in mind that USF started 15-20 years before UNF and now has over 50,000 students. Basically it has larger brand recognition and reach. This will change as UNF continues to grow and attract students from out of the area, state, and even country.
as fro UNF never being more than 25,000 students, I think you're wrong...their campus master plan calls for over 23,000 by 2020 and I'm betting that estimate is low
You're quite right on USF. My point was that UNF graduates stay in-region at a much higher rate than other SUS schools. It's something to work with.
On growing, I won't say it'll never happen (this is Florida and we done like growth), but the plan is to cap out at around 25,000 students. That's the number we feel we can serve while maintaining our focus on teaching and class size; we don't want to grow any more than that.
Quote from: cline on April 18, 2012, 04:51:11 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2012, 03:51:51 PM
I just found some interesting statistics. There are currently over 60,000 UNF graduates, of which 36,000, or 60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area. T
This means that a significant portion of UNF graduates, including graduates who aren't originally from Jacksonville, are choosing to stay in Jacksonville after graduating.
Yeah but how many of the graduates were originally from Jacksonville. I would like to know that because I bet the number is very high. For a long time UNF basically pulled most of its students from Jax. That is beginning to change now. But if only 36k graduates are choosing to stay in Jax and say, for example, 50k of the 60k total graduates are originally from Jax, then we're losing UNF grads to other cities.
As I say, among in-state students, about 40% come from outside the metro area (there are also out of state and international students, but the numbers are much smaller). This is a higher proportion than it used to be, and it's growing. The numbers are complicated as record keeping has changed over the years.
In the early years a much higher percentage of UNF students were from Jacksonville, and moreover the majority were non-traditional commuter students - many of whom were already vested in the community before seeking a degree. At the same time, though, the university was much smaller back then. Into the 90s we were graduating only around 1500 students a year; it's 3500 a year now.
It's also harder to tell patterns among recent graduates as well. Some stick around and then move; others move (for instance for grad school) and then return. But I'm told the general pattern continues: a majority of UNF graduates, including students not originally from the Jacksonville area, are choosing to remain in Jacksonville.
There's one last thing I'll add.
Jacksonville businesses also have a problem with letting young people have a bigger say in the table as well as offering them a larger salary. If a young person provides ideas to a company that is worth $135,000/yr, then that's what they should pay them that. Don't implement their idea, say how useful they are, and just pay them a measly $50,000 saying that they should wait until they are older to do stuff and how Jacksonville is a city with a low cost of living telling them how awesome Jacksonville is. That's not right and smart professional young people know that.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 18, 2012, 11:24:59 AM
I typed up a really long response, but it really all boils down to a few things.
There are really three types of young professionals, the single and usually younger faster living crowd, the married with children well educated couple, and the DINK couple who love to travel and are moving towards having their first kid. I am in that first group of people, so I can mainly just speak to their needs.
There are four types, actually. The not-so-young singles make a fourth type. More specifically, those not coupled, or hell bent on being so. And believe me, the young singles are quite different from the not-so-young singles. Different enough to merit their own category. In fact, I would say those of us who are single, not in their 20s or 30s, have it hardest in this city, socially. So much is either geared towards those with kids and spouses, or young singles who like to party.
I'm a single young-ish professional, who doesn't want to party all the time (sometimes, though!). I wish there were more late night bookstores, late night coffee shops, that kind of thing. I'm not complaining, though, I make do. Still, what I wouldn't give for an independent owned coffee shop and bookstore that stayed open super late...where us night owls who don't necessarily want to hang out at bars all the time, could go on weekend nights. Thank goodness for Bold Bean's later hours, but wouldn't it be great if there were a handful of such options?
I think so.
I'll admit, Jacksonville has grown on me tremendously in my 6 years here. I love living in Riverside, going walking and biking around the hood, hanging out at the Starbucks or Bold Bean and running into so many people I know. It's lovely. And super affordable, here.
Still, I'd kill for a couple more late night places that didn't focus on alcohol. That served alcohol, but didn't focus on it. Cafes and bookstores.
Thanks for listening! Er...reading, I mean.
QuoteJacksonville businesses also have a problem with letting young people have a bigger say in the table as well as offering them a larger salary. If a young person provides ideas to a company that is worth $135,000/yr, then that's what they should pay them that. Don't implement their idea, say how useful they are, and just pay them a measly $50,000 saying that they should wait until they are older to do stuff and how Jacksonville is a city with a low cost of living telling them how awesome Jacksonville is. That's not right and smart professional young people know that.
I'm 33 and have a pretty large rolodex full of professional acquaintances. I have never come across what you describe.
Quote60%, have stayed in the Jacksonville area.
Very interesting(albeit not surprising) statistic.
Quote from: Purplebike on April 18, 2012, 06:35:53 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 18, 2012, 11:24:59 AM
I typed up a really long response, but it really all boils down to a few things.
There are really three types of young professionals, the single and usually younger faster living crowd, the married with children well educated couple, and the DINK couple who love to travel and are moving towards having their first kid. I am in that first group of people, so I can mainly just speak to their needs.
There are four types, actually. The not-so-young singles make a fourth type. More specifically, those not coupled, or hell bent on being so. And believe me, the young singles are quite different from the not-so-young singles. Different enough to merit their own category. In fact, I would say those of us who are single, not in their 20s or 30s, have it hardest in this city, socially. So much is either geared towards those with kids and spouses, or young singles who like to party.
I'm a single young-ish professional, who doesn't want to party all the time (sometimes, though!). I wish there were more late night bookstores, late night coffee shops, that kind of thing. I'm not complaining, though, I make do. Still, what I wouldn't give for an independent owned coffee shop and bookstore that stayed open super late...where us night owls who don't necessarily want to hang out at bars all the time, could go on weekend nights. Thank goodness for Bold Bean's later hours, but wouldn't it be great if there were a handful of such options?
I think so.
I'll admit, Jacksonville has grown on me tremendously in my 6 years here. I love living in Riverside, going walking and biking around the hood, hanging out at the Starbucks or Bold Bean and running into so many people I know. It's lovely. And super affordable, here.
Still, I'd kill for a couple more late night places that didn't focus on alcohol. That served alcohol, but didn't focus on it. Cafes and bookstores.
Thanks for listening! Er...reading, I mean.
...well, anyway....until all that happens, see you in 5 Points this evening for Happy Hour! :)
Quote from: fieldafm on April 18, 2012, 06:49:19 PM
QuoteJacksonville businesses also have a problem with letting young people have a bigger say in the table as well as offering them a larger salary. If a young person provides ideas to a company that is worth $135,000/yr, then that's what they should pay them that. Don't implement their idea, say how useful they are, and just pay them a measly $50,000 saying that they should wait until they are older to do stuff and how Jacksonville is a city with a low cost of living telling them how awesome Jacksonville is. That's not right and smart professional young people know that.
I'm 33 and have a pretty large rolodex full of professional acquaintances. I have never come across what you describe.
Really? It could be the people I know just got the unlucky end of a bad straw. It's nice to know there are at least some people who are listened to and compensated appropriately.
There are certain jobs that are just traditionally underpaid grinds (I'd never be an ad agency around town for instance), but telling someone they won't be paid commesurate with performance b/c they aren't old enough is age discrimination and illegal.
If you aren't getting paid what you're worth... go somewhere else(talented people that have a strong network are always in high demand) or better yet start your own business.
Quote from: Purplebike on April 18, 2012, 06:56:00 PM
Still, I'd kill for a couple more late night places that didn't focus on alcohol. That served alcohol, but didn't focus on it. Cafes and bookstores.
Off topic - Are there any other urban/trendy cafes besides Chamblins Uptown, Bold Bean and Three Layers? Are there any others of the genre that I don't know about? If so, I'd like to check them out.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on April 18, 2012, 07:22:54 PM
Quote from: Purplebike on April 18, 2012, 06:56:00 PM
Still, I'd kill for a couple more late night places that didn't focus on alcohol. That served alcohol, but didn't focus on it. Cafes and bookstores.
Off topic - Are there any other urban/trendy cafes besides Chamblins Uptown, Bold Bean and Three Layers? Are there any others of the genre that I don't know about? If so, I'd like to check them out.
No, not that I know of. Those are the only places I know of. Chamblins is only open late on Wednesdays. Until 9 pm. Ideally, I'd love a couple bookstore / cafe options that were open until 2 or 3 am. There was a place, the...Coffee and Tea place (forget the exact name, on Lomax) that closed a couple months ago, that was open 'til late. It would be nice to have a couple options...one serving maybe the younger, hipster crowd, another serving the mid-age professional crowd...you know what I mean? But no, I do not know of any such places, beyond the ones you mention!
I (Chamblin's Uptown) have been thinking about beginning a process of gradually opening till nine on additional evenings, other than only on Wednesdays, as has been our schedule for four years. The candidates for opening another night seem to be Fridays and Saturdays. Some have suggested Friday, some Saturday.
Anyone suggest which? And the reason for suggesting which? Or would another night be better?
Obviously if we had some neighbors in the area who also opened in the evenings, it would be better for us. Thank goodness we have La Cena. The library opens until six on Fridays and Saturdays, and until eight from Monday thru Thursday. If there were more people living in the downtown area, I believe we would do better in the evenings. It's a situation wherein we are ready to expand our hours, doing shift work, but we must do so without excessive losses while cultivating a nighttime following.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 18, 2012, 07:20:21 PM
If you aren't getting paid what you're worth... go somewhere else
Apparently that's what they've been doing. And that somewhere else is not Jacksonville.
QuoteI'm a single young-ish professional, who doesn't want to party all the time (sometimes, though!). I wish there were more late night bookstores, late night coffee shops, that kind of thing. I'm not complaining, though, I make do. Still, what I wouldn't give for an independent owned coffee shop and bookstore that stayed open super late...where us night owls who don't necessarily want to hang out at bars all the time, could go on weekend nights. Thank goodness for Bold Bean's later hours, but wouldn't it be great if there were a handful of such options?
We already had and ignored uncommon grounds. Any more ideas?
Quote from: finehoe on April 19, 2012, 10:38:18 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on April 18, 2012, 07:20:21 PM
If you aren't getting paid what you're worth... go somewhere else
Apparently that's what they've been doing. And that somewhere else is not Jacksonville.
I haven't updated my work address in my company's HR database so that they still think I work in Charlotte! Makes it easier when my boss tries to put compensation bumps in there.
Quote from: finehoe on April 19, 2012, 10:38:18 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on April 18, 2012, 07:20:21 PM
If you aren't getting paid what you're worth... go somewhere else
Apparently that's what they've been doing. And that somewhere else is not Jacksonville.
Jacksonville's problem isn't a compensation issue. Jax's problems revolve around QOL and a general lack of innovation.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 11:10:31 AM
Jacksonville's problem isn't a compensation issue.
The figures posted earlier by JaxByDefault would seem to dispute that.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 11:10:31 AM
Quote from: finehoe on April 19, 2012, 10:38:18 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on April 18, 2012, 07:20:21 PM
If you aren't getting paid what you're worth... go somewhere else
Apparently that's what they've been doing. And that somewhere else is not Jacksonville.
Jacksonville's problem isn't a compensation issue. Jax's problems revolve around QOL and a general lack of innovation.
It's a combination of those things. Definitely compensation is part of it. I have peers (in the 29-33 age bracket) who left town for better quality of life and better pay in the graphic design, video production, and civil engineering fields. They weren't paid what they thought they were worth, so they went somewhere else!
Quote from: finehoe on April 19, 2012, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 11:10:31 AM
Jacksonville's problem isn't a compensation issue.
The figures posted earlier by JaxByDefault would seem to dispute that.
I have two cousins that live in NYC and San Francisco, respectively. I do their finances. Their gross income is 30% higher than mine. My disposable income is 40% higher than theirs.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the blatantly illegal age discrimination and 50k versus 135k 'example'.
Quotegraphic design, video production
That's an industry(GD) that I described above... a grind with a traditionally high rate of burning out. If you are into video production (I was once a partner in a NorCal video production company focusing on action sports), then yes... Jax(and a lot of places) isn't the place you'll need to be. No arguments there.
Look, I agree that there certainly IS a VERY SERIOUS problem. But I don't agree that compensation(when compared to overall cost of living) is a serious problem. There's an interesting article that the Atlantic did that compares 'would you be better off financially somewhere else' which is a good read. QOL and a stifing environment very much are major problems here however.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 11:34:26 AM
Quote from: finehoe on April 19, 2012, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 11:10:31 AM
Jacksonville's problem isn't a compensation issue.
The figures posted earlier by JaxByDefault would seem to dispute that.
I have two cousins that live in NYC and San Francisco, respectively. I do their finances. Their gross income is 30% higher than mine. My disposable income is 40% higher than theirs.
If you're a homeowner, it would depend on when you purchased also. Buying in 2005-2008 vs. buying in 2011-2012 could be a monthly difference of a few hundred dollars of disposable income.
Even if your cousins situation is somehow applicable to fresh-out-of-school young professionals, I suspect that the great majority of recent grads when mulling job offers don't think in terms of gross income vs. disposable income. If they receive an offer in city X that is 15% above what they're offered in city Y, my guess is that city X is likely to be their choice, even if they "know" the cost of living is lower in city Y. That's just the way young people tend to think.
Quote from: finehoe on April 19, 2012, 11:45:48 AM
Even if your cousins situation is somehow applicable to fresh-out-of-school young professionals, I suspect that the great majority of recent grads when mulling job offers don't think in terms of gross income vs. disposable income. If they receive an offer in city X that is 15% above what they're offered in city Y, my guess is that city X is likely to be their choice, even if they "know" the cost of living is lower in city Y. That's just the way young people tend to think.
So in your example, if you just graduated and was offered a job in Jacksonville for $58,000/yr doing IT work for a financial services company or $47,000 a year working for a tech company in San Francisco that was funded by a large VC firm where you would potentially meet a variety of highly creative contacts in your chosen field and get to experience a unique urban environment that is nothing like Jacksonville... that you would pick Jacksonville b/c you're getting paid 19% more?
^If that were my options, I'd be in Fisherman's Wharf eating lunch right now.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 12:02:39 PM
... that you would pick Jacksonville b/c you're getting paid 19% more?
If I was fresh out of school and groaning under tens of thousands of dollars of student loans, it would certainly make me think hard about the choice.
Besides, as was said earlier, it is foolish to compare Jacksonville to San Francisco or New York. The real question is would this hypothetical young professional choose Jacksonville over Charlotte, Memphis, Austin, Richmond, Louisville, Nashville, etc. if he/she was offered 19% more.
Quote from: finehoe on April 19, 2012, 12:28:13 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 12:02:39 PM
... that you would pick Jacksonville b/c you're getting paid 19% more?
If I was fresh out of school and groaning under tens of thousands of dollars of student loans, it would certainly make me think hard about the choice.
Besides, as was said earlier, it is foolish to compare Jacksonville to San Francisco or New York. The real question is would this hypothetical young professional choose Jacksonville over Charlotte, Memphis, Austin, Richmond, Louisville, Nashville, etc. if he/she was offered 19% more.
Under those examples, you'd work a mind-numbing IT job maintaing a database that processes title requests at a large financial service company versus creating innovative analytic software at say Digby in Austin surrounded by tech startups, major VC firms and tons of highly educated young people?
(http://www.theskywayaustin.com/images/photos/downtown-austin-6th-street.jpg)
Look, it's plain simple. Want to keep young professionals in Jacksonville? Make it interesting to live in! Why can't this concept be grasped? Think about it. "Oh, please stay! We have nothing to offer you, but we want you to stay." Sounds ridiculous, right? Brown is even talking about reviving downtown? Something that a creative, young professional could help at right there! Why can't anyone in Jacksonville grasp this concept?
I"d be in Austin.
Quote from: ronchamblin on April 19, 2012, 03:57:32 AM
I (Chamblin's Uptown) have been thinking about beginning a process of gradually opening till nine on additional evenings, other than only on Wednesdays, as has been our schedule for four years. The candidates for opening another night seem to be Fridays and Saturdays. Some have suggested Friday, some Saturday.
Anyone suggest which? And the reason for suggesting which? Or would another night be better?
Obviously if we had some neighbors in the area who also opened in the evenings, it would be better for us. Thank goodness we have La Cena. The library opens until six on Fridays and Saturdays, and until eight from Monday thru Thursday. If there were more people living in the downtown area, I believe we would do better in the evenings. It's a situation wherein we are ready to expand our hours, doing shift work, but we must do so without excessive losses while cultivating a nighttime following.
Ron, you already know how I feel about you all staying open later! :) I totally understand the benefits and burdens of you doing so, though. I understand that more needs to be going on downtown, in order for you to justify staying open later--otherwise, there might not be enough foot traffic to sustain the later hours. So...how can we get more businesses downtown, that cater to all kinds? That of course is one of the main questions at stake here.
In *my* version of a perfect world, Chamblins would also have a location in Riverside! The old Fuel space maybe! :)
Well, in any case, I'll be downtown hanging with you guys this weekend, doing my work in the cafe, during the days. Like I usually do!
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 19, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
QuoteI'm a single young-ish professional, who doesn't want to party all the time (sometimes, though!). I wish there were more late night bookstores, late night coffee shops, that kind of thing. I'm not complaining, though, I make do. Still, what I wouldn't give for an independent owned coffee shop and bookstore that stayed open super late...where us night owls who don't necessarily want to hang out at bars all the time, could go on weekend nights. Thank goodness for Bold Bean's later hours, but wouldn't it be great if there were a handful of such options?
We already had and ignored uncommon grounds. Any more ideas?
Good question. Like Ron (Chamblin) said (and I'm paraphrasing here), consistent foot traffic is required to sustain a late night coffee shop / bookstore. I think that may be one of the reasons why Common Grounds didn't make it for the long haul. It was sort of tucked off to the side, off the square.
I think the old Fuel space should be resurrected as a late night coffee shop. It's big and potentially sprawling enough to be able to accommodate all the different kinds of people that would probably want to take advantage of it: hipsters, professionals of all ages, and any combination thereof. A late night place has to offer food, too. That's one of the downfalls of Bold Bean (one of the only ones I can think of, aside from the fact that it's pretty small, seating quickly fills up).
In short, a late night place right in Five Points, or right in the middle of the King Street district. OOooh, I think that empty space on the corner of King and College would make a great late night coffee shop!
Your thoughts?
Quote
In short, a late night place right in Five Points, or right in the middle of the King Street district. OOooh, I think that empty space on the corner of King and College would make a great late night coffee shop!
What about 5 points Coffee and Spice?
One thing I've noticed here is that there's a bit of a "pay to play" model in a lot of social/networking/educational organizations out there. Events put together by organizations like the Cultural Council of Jacksonville, the World Affairs Council of Jacksonville and RAP come off to me as fundraising gatherings for rich socialites/business types. When I interned with the World Affairs Council of New Orleans, I'd say 75% of our events were free or BYOB (free lectures in conjunction with the universities or social mixers) with the remainder being for fundraising. Here the ratio seems flipped, at least with the event announcements I've seen. With this kind of environment, it feels difficult to get involved with those segments of the community as a newcomer to the city.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 11:34:26 AM
Quote from: finehoe on April 19, 2012, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 11:10:31 AM
Jacksonville's problem isn't a compensation issue.
The figures posted earlier by JaxByDefault would seem to dispute that.
I have two cousins that live in NYC and San Francisco, respectively. I do their finances. Their gross income is 30% higher than mine. My disposable income is 40% higher than theirs.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the blatantly illegal age discrimination and 50k versus 135k 'example'.
Quotegraphic design, video production
That's an industry(GD) that I described above... a grind with a traditionally high rate of burning out. If you are into video production (I was once a partner in a NorCal video production company focusing on action sports), then yes... Jax(and a lot of places) isn't the place you'll need to be. No arguments there.
Look, I agree that there certainly IS a VERY SERIOUS problem. But I don't agree that compensation(when compared to overall cost of living) is a serious problem. There's an interesting article that the Atlantic did that compares 'would you be better off financially somewhere else' which is a good read. QOL and a stifing environment very much are major problems here however.
Sorry, they didn't say age but more by experience due to years worked which then goes back to age. There's business out there who feel more comfortable paying more for someone with 20 years experience then they do paying someone with just 2 years experience in the field even when they are a genius.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 12:45:51 PM
Under those examples, you'd work a mind-numbing IT job maintaing a database that processes title requests at a large financial service company versus creating innovative analytic software at say Digby in Austin surrounded by tech startups, major VC firms and tons of highly educated young people?
Don't forget a purpose in life. Jacksonville offers few of that to the creative class. At least one third of life is spent at work. These people want that one third of their life to be something meaningful.
Quote from: JFman00 on April 19, 2012, 03:28:16 PM
One thing I've noticed here is that there's a bit of a "pay to play" model in a lot of social/networking/educational organizations out there. Events put together by organizations like the Cultural Council of Jacksonville, the World Affairs Council of Jacksonville and RAP come off to me as fundraising gatherings for rich socialites/business types. When I interned with the World Affairs Council of New Orleans, I'd say 75% of our events were free or BYOB (free lectures in conjunction with the universities or social mixers) with the remainder being for fundraising. Here the ratio seems flipped, at least with the event announcements I've seen. With this kind of environment, it feels difficult to get involved with those segments of the community as a newcomer to the city.
Jacksonville is worried about making a profit. I worked with similar organizations and they think that the door charge is a good thing. I tried to convince them otherwise but they wouldn't listen. If they were in charge of things like the internet, well, let's say every time I visited MetroJacksonville, I would need to enter a credit card number and pay a fee. It would be like every time I visited downtown, I would need to pay a fee as a privilege of visiting the place.
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 19, 2012, 01:09:45 PM
Look, it's plain simple. Want to keep young professionals in Jacksonville? Make it interesting to live in! Why can't this concept be grasped? Think about it. "Oh, please stay! We have nothing to offer you, but we want you to stay." Sounds ridiculous, right? Brown is even talking about reviving downtown? Something that a creative, young professional could help at right there! Why can't anyone in Jacksonville grasp this concept?
What do you think the chances are of that actually happening? Are you sure we shouldn't require them to have 20 or more years experience in urban development?
But seriously, if this happens, that would give a few young smart professionals a meaningful purpose in their life. While not a big portion, it would be a good start and a strong signal that Jacksonville is serious about solving this problem.
As a fun exercise, can someone calculate what percentage of young people have power positions (not secretarial or internship staff) of the boards and agencies which run downtown? Does anyone know if our city actively asks these young professionals to join the them? No, I don't mean a junior board which has no power but the real one with full voting rights.
If you offer the smartest young professional who's planning to leave the Chairmanship of the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce, then yes. That's a strong incentive for them to stay.
Quote from: BillKillingsworth on April 18, 2012, 07:57:26 AM
I've tried to stay offline in the past because of my position with the City and now to keep my nose clean; but, this is something I feel strongly about. Capital is more mobile than it has every been. It's not just mobile regionally or nationally, but globally. Today's young professional is more likely to make a location choice based on lifestyle issues than ever before. It doesn't take much research to figure out they are locating in cities that offer a dynamic urban lifestyle with a variety of mobility choices.
CEOs for Cities published a report they call the Talent Dividend. Their research indicates that for every %1 increase in college attainment there is a $763 increase in per capita income. Some simple math indicates that just striving for average would net 2.5 billion dollars for Duval County annually. That's a powerful argument for Jacksonville adding a vibrant urban product to it's real estate portfolio.
However, there's more. This is a group that clearly values education. I leave it to you to discuss whether we provide a market that values education ...
Bill
Great post. I could see young professionals living in and enjoying life in Riverside, Avondale and San Marco. Unfortunately transplants new to town are never shown these neighborhoods (instead most realtors automatically bring them to the beach or to a subdivision/gated community). The city and the individual communities also don't really have the money for necessary upkeep and code enforcement, and as a result even the "nicest" pockets of the city look extremely trashy when compared to nice pockets of similar metros.
Also, visitors to the city, from business travelers to convention attendees to tourists and vacationers see the following of our city:
1) A great/easy airport :)
2) A HORRIBLE stretch of 95, no matter which side of town (and add I-10 and basically any major thoroughfare)
3) An absolutely cryptic downtown with no life
4) Pristine suburbs, but nothing different from suburbs elsewhere
5) The beaches, which outside of Atlantic Beach and old PVB are not what I would consider showcase beaches (and most just see Jax Beach, which is iffy at best when compared to other FL beaches)
The city has not learned that its most visible parts are most important for attracting business and people. Once it gets that down, it has to pay more attention to the neighborhoods surrounding the core which will be more popular for 21st century young professionals and empty nesters (the people the city should attract and look after).
What is equally as bad as crime and blight is complete and utter emptiness. When the city demolishes buildings in the name of cleaning up or public safety or whatever the reason, it just creates more emptiness, which is absolutely horrible for producing the right image to visitors.
The city also has made too many bad choices of locating ugly government buildings on prime developable riverfront land and then building action centers (such as arena, stadium, convention center, etc) scattered all over the place in empty land areas. Basically, the city has nearly made too many bad decisions in 50 years to really come back from it, but there is always hope.
And let's not forget that while the top private schools in the city are inexpensive compared to similar product in larger cities where transplants may be relocating from, they are still out of reach for 99%. AND nobody in their right mind is going to want to start a family and send their kids to a Duval public school (unless they can "win" the lottery and attend Stanton or DA). Still, education is probably not as dire of a situation as the city's image and policies for growth/development/lack of money for incentives or anything. Plenty of large cities have horrible public schools, private schools that cost as much as Harvard and still tons of young professionals and young families.
Quote from: simms3 on April 19, 2012, 08:54:18 PM
Quote from: BillKillingsworth on April 18, 2012, 07:57:26 AM
I've tried to stay offline in the past because of my position with the City and now to keep my nose clean; but, this is something I feel strongly about. Capital is more mobile than it has every been. It's not just mobile regionally or nationally, but globally. Today's young professional is more likely to make a location choice based on lifestyle issues than ever before. It doesn't take much research to figure out they are locating in cities that offer a dynamic urban lifestyle with a variety of mobility choices.
CEOs for Cities published a report they call the Talent Dividend. Their research indicates that for every %1 increase in college attainment there is a $763 increase in per capita income. Some simple math indicates that just striving for average would net 2.5 billion dollars for Duval County annually. That's a powerful argument for Jacksonville adding a vibrant urban product to it's real estate portfolio.
However, there's more. This is a group that clearly values education. I leave it to you to discuss whether we provide a market that values education ...
Bill
Great post. I could see young professionals living in and enjoying life in Riverside, Avondale and San Marco. Unfortunately transplants new to town are never shown these neighborhoods (instead most realtors automatically bring them to the beach or to a subdivision/gated community). The city and the individual communities also don't really have the money for necessary upkeep and code enforcement, and as a result even the "nicest" pockets of the city look extremely trashy when compared to nice pockets of similar metros.
Also, visitors to the city, from business travelers to convention attendees to tourists and vacationers see the following of our city:
1) A great/easy airport :)
2) A HORRIBLE stretch of 95, no matter which side of town (and add I-10 and basically any major thoroughfare)
3) An absolutely cryptic downtown with no life
4) Pristine suburbs, but nothing different from suburbs elsewhere
5) The beaches, which outside of Atlantic Beach and old PVB are not what I would consider showcase beaches (and most just see Jax Beach, which is iffy at best when compared to other FL beaches)
The city has not learned that its most visible parts are most important for attracting business and people. Once it gets that down, it has to pay more attention to the neighborhoods surrounding the core which will be more popular for 21st century young professionals and empty nesters (the people the city should attract and look after).
What is equally as bad as crime and blight is complete and utter emptiness. When the city demolishes buildings in the name of cleaning up or public safety or whatever the reason, it just creates more emptiness, which is absolutely horrible for producing the right image to visitors.
The city also has made too many bad choices of locating ugly government buildings on prime developable riverfront land and then building action centers (such as arena, stadium, convention center, etc) scattered all over the place in empty land areas. Basically, the city has nearly made too many bad decisions in 50 years to really come back from it, but there is always hope.
And let's not forget that while the top private schools in the city are inexpensive compared to similar product in larger cities where transplants may be relocating from, they are still out of reach for 99%. AND nobody in their right mind is going to want to start a family and send their kids to a Duval public school (unless they can "win" the lottery and attend Stanton or DA). Still, education is probably not as dire of a situation as the city's image and policies for growth/development/lack of money for incentives or anything. Plenty of large cities have horrible public schools, private schools that cost as much as Harvard and still tons of young professionals and young families.
Perhaps more job creation right there? Someone to promote or advertise the more urban parts of Jacksonville? Put someone in charge of beautifying 95 and 10? A creative young mind would could do that well.
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 19, 2012, 09:10:53 PM
Perhaps more job creation right there? Someone to promote or advertise the more urban parts of Jacksonville? Put someone in charge of beautifying 95 and 10? A creative young mind would could do that well.
That's pretty darn easy. I, and others, have been heavily promoting the more urban areas of Jax for years. Heck, buy a few bill boards, strategic online/magazine ads, and get on a few specific local morning tv/radio shows and you'd have one heckuva campaign.
But, unless it's COJ funded, it would take coordination between area organizations and agencies, which are too territorial, IMO. They don't see the bigger picture that if someone moves to X in the urban core, it's also good for Y in the urban core.
One example, Springfield has nice parks with amenities bordering Downtown. Yet, DVI won't promote them or the events held in them. It's outside of their technical boundry, even though they're literally next to one another. So, instead of DVI promoting the dog park, disc golf course, baseball field, duck pond, and potential historic tourism of Klutho & Confederate Parks, which would draw people into Downtown as well, to visit or live, they pretend these desirable amenities don't exist. Or when was the last time you saw SMPS promoting a RAP event? Etc.
When people move to the general urban core, many do so for what's within a few miles distance, not just what's around the corner from them. And if you live in San Marco, Springfield, Riverside or Downtown, all are just a few miles (or less) away from one another.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on April 19, 2012, 09:38:49 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 19, 2012, 09:10:53 PM
Perhaps more job creation right there? Someone to promote or advertise the more urban parts of Jacksonville? Put someone in charge of beautifying 95 and 10? A creative young mind would could do that well.
That's pretty darn easy. I, and others, have been heavily promoting the more urban areas of Jax for years. Heck, buy a few bill boards, strategic online/magazine ads, and get on a few specific local morning tv/radio shows and you'd have one heckuva campaign.
But, unless it's COJ funded, it would take coordination between area organizations and agencies, which are too territorial, IMO. They don't see the bigger picture that if someone moves to X in the urban core, it's also good for Y in the urban core.
One example, Springfield has nice parks with amenities bordering Downtown. Yet, DVI won't promote them or the events held in them. It's outside of their technical boundry, even though they're literally next to one another. So, instead of DVI promoting the dog park, disc golf course, baseball field, duck pond, and potential historic tourism of Klutho & Confederate Parks, which would draw people into Downtown as well, to visit or live, they pretend these desirable amenities don't exist. Or when was the last time you saw SMPS promoting a RAP event? Etc.
When people move to the general urban core, many do so for what's within a few miles distance, not just what's around the corner from them. And if you live in San Marco, Springfield, Riverside or Downtown, all are just a few miles (or less) away from one another.
I say if COJ starts funding stuff like this and gets the right guy/girl in there, they will get the results that they've been looking for. If anything, it might even turn into profit for them.
Anything on the specific recommendations of the consultants?
I just had an epiphany. CoWork Jax.
It's a hub for creative professionals, young and old. Networking and collaboration opportunities. A step in the right direction of keeping young professionals in Jacksonville, yes?
I mentioned in some earlier posts in this thread that I wish there were more late night bookstores & cafes. One main reason being, so I can work at night...on creative stuff, on teaching stuff, etc. While CoWork Jax isn't a cafe or bookstore, I can see putting in night owl work hours there, when I don't feel like working at home. Which I never do feel like doing, it's too distracting.
Have any of you checked it out yet? If yes, what are your thoughts?
http://www.coworkjax.com/
Jacksonville didn't have the visionary and progressive business leadership a couple of decades ago that's largely responsible for Charlotte being what it is today. It doesn't have the high-caliber universities that have resulted in significant amounts of private investment like the Raleigh-Durham area and Austin, nor is it the epicenter of certain cultural expressions like Nashville and New Orleans. It will have to take a page out of the playbooks of cities like Charleston and Greenville that started with visionary civic and political leadership which actually, in turn, made the urban cores of those cities economic development tools in and of themselves. Jacksonville has built-in advantages that some of its peer cities would absolutely KILL to have, but the lack of leadership over the years resulted in those cities doing more with less.
Quote from: krazeeboi on April 20, 2012, 12:37:35 PM
Jacksonville didn't have the visionary and progressive business leadership a couple of decades ago that's largely responsible for Charlotte being what it is today. It doesn't have the high-caliber universities that have resulted in significant amounts of private investment like the Raleigh-Durham area and Austin, nor is it the epicenter of certain cultural expressions like Nashville and New Orleans. It will have to take a page out of the playbooks of cities like Charleston and Greenville that started with visionary civic and political leadership which actually, in turn, made the urban cores of those cities economic development tools in and of themselves. Jacksonville has built-in advantages that some of its peer cities would absolutely KILL to have, but the lack of leadership over the years resulted in those cities doing more with less.
I think you hit the bullseye on this topic.
Quote from: krazeeboi on April 20, 2012, 12:37:35 PM
Jacksonville didn't have the visionary and progressive business leadership a couple of decades ago that's largely responsible for Charlotte being what it is today. It doesn't have the high-caliber universities that have resulted in significant amounts of private investment like the Raleigh-Durham area and Austin, nor is it the epicenter of certain cultural expressions like Nashville and New Orleans. It will have to take a page out of the playbooks of cities like Charleston and Greenville that started with visionary civic and political leadership which actually, in turn, made the urban cores of those cities economic development tools in and of themselves. Jacksonville has built-in advantages that some of its peer cities would absolutely KILL to have, but the lack of leadership over the years resulted in those cities doing more with less.
Can I hear an amen?
We still don't have the visionary and progressive business leadership.
QuoteWe still don't have the visionary and progressive business leadership.
Go look in the mirror, change starts with each of us. You want a different city, go make it happen.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 20, 2012, 03:45:54 PM
QuoteWe still don't have the visionary and progressive business leadership.
Go look in the mirror, change starts with each of us. You want a different city, go make it happen.
+100
Quote from: Purplebike on April 20, 2012, 04:11:12 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 20, 2012, 03:45:54 PM
QuoteWe still don't have the visionary and progressive business leadership.
Go look in the mirror, change starts with each of us. You want a different city, go make it happen.
+100
OK. Wonderful. Where do we start? How do we do it? How can we get our ideas across a city that goes out of its way to hold itself back?
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 20, 2012, 03:45:54 PM
QuoteWe still don't have the visionary and progressive business leadership.
Go look in the mirror, change starts with each of us. You want a different city, go make it happen.
I'm starting with the man in the mirror, I'm asking him to change his ways.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 20, 2012, 03:45:54 PM
QuoteWe still don't have the visionary and progressive business leadership.
Go look in the mirror, change starts with each of us. You want a different city, go make it happen.
I think lots of people make it happen by just going to a different city. It takes a long time to make any positive headway in Jacksonville and there are few wanting to waste their youth hoping that a city (which so far has failed to make any real improvements in any of the urban qualities so desired by young professionals) will magically transform.
Some of us are stuck here, and if I'm going to be stuck here, I'm going to do what I can to make it better.
I've been told that 25 years ago, when Chattanooga was looking for ways to turn itself around, they took a hard look at Jacksonville. Since the late Eighties there has been a complete reversal between these two cities.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on April 21, 2012, 10:34:11 AM
I've been told that 25 years ago, when Chattanooga was looking for ways to turn itself around, they took a hard look at Jacksonville.
It can be quite enlightening to study what
not to do.
http://chattanoogarenaissancefund.com/index.html
1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed
HOPE YEN, Associated Press
Updated 11:50 a.m., Monday, April 23, 2012
WASHINGTON (AP) â€" The college class of 2012 is in for a rude welcome to the world of work.
A weak labor market already has left half of young college graduates either jobless or underemployed in positions that don't fully use their skills and knowledge.
Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs â€" waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example â€" and that's confounding their hopes a degree would pay off despite higher tuition and mounting student loans.
An analysis of government data conducted for The Associated Press lays bare the highly uneven prospects for holders of bachelor's degrees.
Opportunities for college graduates vary widely.
While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder. Median wages for those with bachelor's degrees are down from 2000, hit by technological changes that are eliminating midlevel jobs such as bank tellers. Most future job openings are projected to be in lower-skilled positions such as home health aides, who can provide personalized attention as the U.S. population ages.
Taking underemployment into consideration, the job prospects for bachelor's degree holders fell last year to the lowest level in more than a decade.
"I don't even know what I'm looking for," says Michael Bledsoe, who described months of fruitless job searches as he served customers at a Seattle coffeehouse. The 23-year-old graduated in 2010 with a creative writing degree.
Initially hopeful that his college education would create opportunities, Bledsoe languished for three months before finally taking a job as a barista, a position he has held for the last two years. In the beginning he sent three or four resumes day. But, Bledsoe said, employers questioned his lack of experience or the practical worth of his major. Now he sends a resume once every two weeks or so.
Bledsoe, currently making just above minimum wage, says he got financial help from his parents to help pay off student loans. He is now mulling whether to go to graduate school, seeing few other options to advance his career. "There is not much out there, it seems," he said.
His situation highlights a widening but little-discussed labor problem. Perhaps more than ever, the choices that young adults make earlier in life â€" level of schooling, academic field and training, where to attend college, how to pay for it â€" are having long-lasting financial impact.
"You can make more money on average if you go to college, but it's not true for everybody," says Harvard economist Richard Freeman, noting the growing risk of a debt bubble with total U.S. student loan debt surpassing $1 trillion. "If you're not sure what you're going to be doing, it probably bodes well to take some job, if you can get one, and get a sense first of what you want from college."
Andrew Sum, director of the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University who analyzed the numbers, said many people with a bachelor's degree face a double whammy of rising tuition and poor job outcomes. "Simply put, we're failing kids coming out of college," he said, emphasizing that when it comes to jobs, a college major can make all the difference. "We're going to need a lot better job growth and connections to the labor market, otherwise college debt will grow."
By region, the Mountain West was most likely to have young college graduates jobless or underemployed â€" roughly 3 in 5. It was followed by the more rural southeastern U.S., including Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi and Tennessee. The Pacific region, including Alaska, California, Hawaii, Oregon and Washington, also was high on the list.
On the other end of the scale, the southern U.S., anchored by Texas, was most likely to have young college graduates in higher-skill jobs.
The figures are based on an analysis of 2011 Current Population Survey data by Northeastern University researchers and supplemented with material from Paul Harrington, an economist at Drexel University, and the Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank. They rely on Labor Department assessments of the level of education required to do the job in 900-plus U.S. occupations, which were used to calculate the shares of young adults with bachelor's degrees who were "underemployed."
About 1.5 million, or 53.6 percent, of bachelor's degree-holders under the age of 25 last year were jobless or underemployed, the highest share in at least 11 years. In 2000, the share was at a low of 41 percent, before the dot-com bust erased job gains for college graduates in the telecommunications and IT fields.
Out of the 1.5 million who languished in the job market, about half were underemployed, an increase from the previous year.
Broken down by occupation, young college graduates were heavily represented in jobs that require a high school diploma or less.
In the last year, they were more likely to be employed as waiters, waitresses, bartenders and food-service helpers than as engineers, physicists, chemists and mathematicians combined (100,000 versus 90,000). There were more working in office-related jobs such as receptionist or payroll clerk than in all computer professional jobs (163,000 versus 100,000). More also were employed as cashiers, retail clerks and customer representatives than engineers (125,000 versus 80,000).
According to government projections released last month, only three of the 30 occupations with the largest projected number of job openings by 2020 will require a bachelor's degree or higher to fill the position â€" teachers, college professors and accountants. Most job openings are in professions such as retail sales, fast food and truck driving, jobs which aren't easily replaced by computers.
College graduates who majored in zoology, anthropology, philosophy, art history and humanities were among the least likely to find jobs appropriate to their education level; those with nursing, teaching, accounting or computer science degrees were among the most likely.
In Nevada, where unemployment is the highest in the nation, Class of 2012 college seniors recently expressed feelings ranging from anxiety and fear to cautious optimism about what lies ahead.
With the state's economy languishing in an extended housing bust, a lot of young graduates have shown up at job placement centers in tears. Many have been squeezed out of jobs by more experienced workers, job counselors said, and are now having to explain to prospective employers the time gaps in their resumes.
"It's kind of scary," said Cameron Bawden, 22, who is graduating from the University of Nevada-Las Vegas in December with a business degree. His family has warned him for years about the job market, so he has been building his resume by working part time on the Las Vegas Strip as a food runner and doing a marketing internship with a local airline.
Bawden said his friends who have graduated are either unemployed or working along the Vegas Strip in service jobs that don't require degrees. "There are so few jobs and it's a small city," he said. "It's all about who you know."
Any job gains are going mostly to workers at the top and bottom of the wage scale, at the expense of middle-income jobs commonly held by bachelor's degree holders. By some studies, up to 95 percent of positions lost during the economic recovery occurred in middle-income occupations such as bank tellers, the type of job not expected to return in a more high-tech age.
David Neumark, an economist at the University of California-Irvine, said a bachelor's degree can have benefits that aren't fully reflected in the government's labor data. He said even for lower-skilled jobs such as waitress or cashier, employers tend to value bachelor's degree-holders more highly than high-school graduates, paying them more for the same work and offering promotions.
In addition, U.S. workers increasingly may need to consider their position in a global economy, where they must compete with educated foreign-born residents for jobs. Longer-term government projections also may fail to consider "degree inflation," a growing ubiquity of bachelor's degrees that could make them more commonplace in lower-wage jobs but inadequate for higher-wage ones.
That future may be now for Kelman Edwards Jr., 24, of Murfreesboro, Tenn., who is waiting to see the returns on his college education.
After earning a biology degree last May, the only job he could find was as a construction worker for five months before he quit to focus on finding a job in his academic field. He applied for positions in laboratories but was told they were looking for people with specialized certifications.
"I thought that me having a biology degree was a gold ticket for me getting into places, but every other job wants you to have previous history in the field," he said. Edwards, who has about $5,500 in student debt, recently met with a career counselor at Middle Tennessee State University. The counselor's main advice: Pursue further education.
"Everyone is always telling you, 'Go to college,'" Edwards said. "But when you graduate, it's kind of an empty cliff."
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/1-in-2-new-graduates-are-jobless-or-underemployed-3501033.php
My two cents is that, bottom line, it's going to be about where the jobs are. It seems to me that if we waved a magic wand and Jacksonville had this urban dreamland tomorrow morning, that'd be sweet...but we need more employers and businesses and good and varied ones at that.
Quote from: danem on April 23, 2012, 06:27:24 PM
My two cents is that, bottom line, it's going to be about where the jobs are. It seems to me that if we waved a magic wand and Jacksonville had this urban dreamland tomorrow morning, that'd be sweet...but we need more employers and businesses and good and varied ones at that.
Yes! Exactly! It can start by making DT a little more business friendly.
QuoteWhile there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder.
plus...
Quote"I don't even know what I'm looking for," says Michael Bledsoe, who described months of fruitless job searches as he served customers at a Seattle coffeehouse. The 23-year-old graduated in 2010 with a creative writing degree.
Shocking?
Quote from: danem on April 23, 2012, 06:27:24 PM
My two cents is that, bottom line, it's going to be about where the jobs are. It seems to me that if we waved a magic wand and Jacksonville had this urban dreamland tomorrow morning, that'd be sweet...but we need more employers and businesses and good and varied ones at that.
Except in the last two decades the companies creating the desired jobs tend to locate in communities where the urban quality of life aspect has been heavily invested in and continually improved. In the 21st century, attracting companies and jobs is more about offering companies and the educated workforce they seek, the urban quality of life they desire more than being cheap and giving tax incentives. There's a reason cities like Charlotte have invested in things like fixed mass transit and it involves a lot more than mobility.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 24, 2012, 09:04:40 AM
Quote from: danem on April 23, 2012, 06:27:24 PM
My two cents is that, bottom line, it's going to be about where the jobs are. It seems to me that if we waved a magic wand and Jacksonville had this urban dreamland tomorrow morning, that'd be sweet...but we need more employers and businesses and good and varied ones at that.
Except in the last two decades the companies creating the desired jobs tend to locate in communities where the urban quality of life aspect has been heavily invested in and continually improved. In the 21st century, attracting companies and jobs is more about offering companies and the educated workforce they seek, the urban quality of life they desire more than being cheap and giving tax incentives. There's a reason cities like Charlotte have invested in things like fixed mass transit and it involves a lot more than mobility.
Jake Godbold, while speaking at the recent Keep Jacksonville Beautiful awards dinner, mentioned that Jacksonville needed to invest in itself in order to attract new business. He continually made the point that(and Im paraphrasing) 'the first thing a CEO asks you isn't about taxes, taxes are way down on the list, the first thing they ask is about schools, an educated workforce and quality of life'.
QuoteExcept in the last two decades the companies creating the desired jobs tend to locate in communities where the urban quality of life aspect has been heavily invested in and continually improved. In the 21st century, attracting companies and jobs is more about offering companies and the educated workforce they seek, the urban quality of life they desire more than being cheap and giving tax incentives. There's a reason cities like Charlotte have invested in things like fixed mass transit and it involves a lot more than mobility.
In many cases, I believe creative young professionals are making the where do I live decision based off life style choices. When this happens, jobs follow the clusting of brains. ;)
Bumping this back up.
It's really amazing the kind of brilliant minds that go largely unnoticed in this city.
Kendrick Kidd has been doing some really amazing design/ad work. Today, Bold City's new packaging was featured on dieline (he has been a real star in the ad world over the last few years, his work is routinely featured in HOW publications).
http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2012/8/1/killer-whale-6-pack-carrier.html (http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2012/8/1/killer-whale-6-pack-carrier.html)
Just thought this was interesting. I could go on and on about who I encounter around town who are really talented individuals but I'll keept it on topic....
It goes without saying that I believe quality of life is the best thing our City can do to focus on attracting more people like Kendrick. As Bill has so aptly put it, YPs are making the choices to leave or locate elsewhere not b/c of cost of living or wages. It's clear that relying on UNF to be the harbinger to the influx of the kinds of workers that have the knowledge-based background that will fuel economic growth for the next 30 years is unrealistic. You'd have to drastically improve graduation rates to levels that are three times what they are now in order to create the kinds of population characteristics that will be needed for decades to come. UNF is already outperforming peer communities in Florida as far as educating the workers that are choosing to stay in Jax.
Jason Renfrow of Cambridge University put out a great read called The Open City that addresses the behavorial patterns of the kinds of workers that fuel economic growth through the power of innovation http://books.google.com/books?id=L1Oj-eFrer8C&pg=PR5&lpg=PR5&dq=%22The+Open+City%22+Jason+Rentfrow&source=bl&ots=Djf38COGRP&sig=JeVNwETYVgdLEZKVtj-7vKLYc5s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NdbST9rgOYnS6gG82tiZCg&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=%22The%20Open%20City%22%20Jason%20R (http://books.google.com/books?id=L1Oj-eFrer8C&pg=PR5&lpg=PR5&dq=%22The+Open+City%22+Jason+Rentfrow&source=bl&ots=Djf38COGRP&sig=JeVNwETYVgdLEZKVtj-7vKLYc5s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NdbST9rgOYnS6gG82tiZCg&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=%22The%20Open%20City%22%20Jason%20R)
Basically it concludes that it's not just that people sort themselves into places where they can find work, but they seek out environments where they can pursue their personal interests as well. He finds that people that are 'open to experience' naturally gravitate to places that have an abundance of cultural stimulation where they can interact with like minded people... which leads to cross-disciplinary interaction. Typically the highest forms of innovation are sprung from these types of partnerships.
I'm one of those fleeing professionals (though at 48 not sure I count as young). I left for two reasons:
1. Quality of life- unwalkable Jacksonville vs. walkable NYC. (though obviously there are countervailing factors such as cost of living)
2. Biological time clock- Because Jacksonville is basically a working-class, family-oriented, marry-early city, a single Jewish professor is going to be a pretty lonely guy here. Obviously NYC is at the opposite end of the spectrum.
Quote from: lewyn on August 01, 2012, 05:15:34 PM
2. Biological time clock- Because Jacksonville is basically a working-class, family-oriented, marry-early city, a single Jewish professor is going to be a pretty lonely guy here. Obviously NYC is at the opposite end of the spectrum.
maybe what you mean to say is "as a single Orthodox Jewish professor..." many of us 'less-observant' Jews have few problems meeting people here
Maybe he didn't hang with the fast crowd at Winn-Dixie?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on August 01, 2012, 10:02:33 PM
Maybe he didn't hang with the fast crowd at Winn-Dixie?
dude...give it up...we know you're too good for most places ordinary people hang (like downtown)
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-26/in-detroit-urban-flight-in-reverse (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-26/in-detroit-urban-flight-in-reverse)
Great article on how Detroit is working on solutions in its downtown area, called Midtown. Interesting that Whole Foods decided to invest in a store downtown, only after the area had more than 5,000 housing units occupied.
What was cooler was that he downtown businesses helped subsidize the living downtown. Is there this kind of investment by the downtown businesses here in Jacksonville? Does Blue Cross offer its employees money for renting downtown? Fidelity?
Come on Mr. Mayor, I would love to see you push this on the downtown employers, it would make for great press and go a long way to adding more housing downtown.
I'm so sick of the 'I didn't want to live here in Jax, but I had no choice, and given an opportunity, blah blah blah"...That is pathetic. Bottom line, you are gonna live where you want to live.
Great find, mtraininjax. I was just up in Detroit last month. It's amazing what their private sector has accomplished in such a short time. What they are doing to attract an educated workforce to Midtown and downtown Detroit is something that could be suitable for implementation locally. It's certainly worth a look.
I-10, I'm one of the souls who chose to come to town for a job but was initially disappointed that I couldn't find the urban environment and desired residential building product for a market rate price I was willing to pay. Instead of complaining, I co-founded Metro Jacksonville to help educate and build a movement that will lead to the creation of that vibrant urban environment with suitable housing stock at a variety of price points. I'm still stuck in the Southside but I'm making moves to relocate to a live/work loft in Springfield.
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 04, 2012, 02:02:59 PM
What was cooler was that he downtown businesses helped subsidize the living downtown. Is there this kind of investment by the downtown businesses here in Jacksonville? Does Blue Cross offer its employees money for renting downtown? Fidelity?
I think subsidizing to live in downtown would be a great idea if there were a ton of available units. But there really arent enough units available in downtown ( at least in the core) to provide incentive for. The Carling/11E are nearly 100% occupied as of Sept. In addition, The Strand is more than 90% occupied with only about 20 units or so left. There are people that come in everyday to take tours of the ones left at the Strand. San Marco Place seems to also be busy. The annual report for 2011 showed the occupancy rates of apartments being 91% with a steady annual increase since 2007. (Mind that report came out 7 months ago.) I think there needs to be a significant number of units sitting open in order to start thinking about incentives. Maybe 220 Riverside will provide that opportunity. Maybe there should be more incentives instead to start building these apartment complexes downtown.
There aren't enough residential units in downtown Detroit either. They are subsidizing residences in a much larger area. It would be the same as employers here subsidizing units in nearby neighborhoods like Springfield instead of just the CBD.
Incentives for new construction are worth pondering as well. In Philly, they encouraged new construction a decade ago through an aggressive tax abatement program. Another form of encouraging market rate new construction is to invest in LRT or streetcars. Even during the recession, market rate infill has continued to sprout along many new fixed transit lines across the country. Investing in fixed rail starter lines tends to be cheaper than giving hundreds of millions for individual projects. Cities like Detroit and Cincinnati are now investing in new lines themselves as a part of their urban revitalization plans.
The main reason why smart and creative young professional are leaving Jacksonville is because for the most part, Jacksonville is delusional in it's thinking that it's a great city when it's not. Smart young professionals are exactly that, smart. They can see through the smoke and mirrors that most of Jacksonville tries to put in front of them.
Yes, you can keep the not so smart and not so creative young professionals here by providing housing and better nightlife amenities but overall, the smart and creative young professionals have an investment in themselves they want to improve upon. Jacksonville, overall, doesn't want to invest in them so most of them leave.
Invest in them and they will stay. Don't invest in them and they will leave. No, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida is not a company they will happily work for. That's a company for people who are not so smart and not so creative for obvious reasons.
How do you get smart and creative young people to stay? That's simple. Have the rich people and companies in Jacksonville and Ponte Vedra Beach open their wallets and let them use their money. Let them do whatever they want with that money and don't interfere. That's how you get smart and creative young people to stay.
I'm also amazed by how many established professionals live here but work somewhere else. The 530 and 630 am flights on Monday are always packed with the same guys and the ones coming back early evening Friday the same. I guiess fun cheap living makes one live like that
Quote from: fsquid on August 04, 2012, 10:58:21 PM
I'm also amazed by how many established professionals live here but work somewhere else. The 530 and 630 am flights on Monday are always packed with the same guys and the ones coming back early evening Friday the same. I guiess fun cheap living makes one live like that
The reason on that is its reputation as being a good place to raise kids.
Their kids must be in private school and they probably don't care about cultural diversity. I actually considered relocating to DC a few years ago, partially because of the raising kids issue.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 05, 2012, 08:47:54 AM
Their kids must be in private school and they probably don't care about cultural diversity. I actually considered relocating to DC a few years ago, partially because of the raising kids issue.
Or they live in SJC. No way people would live here and commute to another city weekly so they could send their kids to duval public schools.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 04, 2012, 05:55:49 PM
There aren't enough residential units in downtown Detroit either. They are subsidizing residences in a much larger area. It would be the same as employers here subsidizing units in nearby neighborhoods like Springfield instead of just the CBD.
Incentives for new construction are worth pondering as well. In Philly, they encouraged new construction a decade ago through an aggressive tax abatement program. Another form of encouraging market rate new construction is to invest in LRT or streetcars. Even during the recession, market rate infill has continued to sprout along many new fixed transit lines across the country. Investing in fixed rail starter lines tends to be cheaper than giving hundreds of millions for individual projects. Cities like Detroit and Cincinnati are now investing in new lines themselves as a part of their urban revitalization plans.
Haha. Its funny you mentioned the shortages in Detroit. I recently graduated from a college in Michigan (hence Spartan) in the last decade and have several friends that had to search hard to find an apartment in Midtown Detroit. But do you think giving incentives to nearby neighborhoods, like Springfield, Riverside, Arlington, etc., will provide a strong revitalization to downtown JAX or just help rebuild those neighborhoods instead. Just in my opinion, I think one of the main things that holds downtown Jacksonvile back, is the small population that actually resides in downtown. There is a reason all restaurants are open from 11 - 3 M-F, there is no foot traffic if your were to walk down the streets on Sunday, and there are a good number of just empty parking garages after 5pm. I think by building more apartment complexes and condos downtown, which from my last post there is obviously a demand for, would help resolve some of these issues. Young people like living in cities like Chicago or NY, because there is a large population of other young people, not too mention a more vibrant nightlife and busy streets. Not only would expanding the population of downtown have an exponential effect of drawing other young people, but restaurants and shops located in downtown would be able to grow (or at least extend their hours past 3 pm). You would think foot traffic can only pick up as well.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on August 05, 2012, 07:08:50 AM
Quote from: fsquid on August 04, 2012, 10:58:21 PM
I'm also amazed by how many established professionals live here but work somewhere else. The 530 and 630 am flights on Monday are always packed with the same guys and the ones coming back early evening Friday the same. I guiess fun cheap living makes one live like that
The reason on that is its reputation as being a good place to raise kids.
Low cost of living is what many of them mention. They like being by the ocean too. You are right though, most I've met on those flights live in SJC. A couple from Riverside.
Jax_Spartan, I believe the lack of connectivity between the surrounding neighborhoods and downtown negatively impacts downtown more than the number of people living within a traditional central business district. In reality, the Northbank has more people living in it now, then it had 60 years ago. The residential population lost took place in adjacent districts like LaVilla, Brooklyn, Cathedral District, Springfield, etc.
Even in Chicago, the Loop is directly impacted by its connectivity with vibrant neighborhoods like Wicker Park and Lakeview. While it would be great to see thousands of residential units in the Northbank, realistically that will take decades and billions to pull off. On the flip end, spend $50 million to provide connectivity between DT and districts like Durkeeville, San Marco, Riverside, etc. and you immediately tie in over 100,000 residents. The synergy between the districts will then naturally drive market rate redevelopment in downtown and the surrounding urban districts.
A city's cost of living is great, but it is meaningless if residents do not see any value to making a home there. If we cut corners with public safety, libraries, school and other services, we undercut our identity as a city with common purposes. Young professionals do not mind making an expensive trade off when they consider leaving for what they deem to be greener pastures. We should all take notice when rising professionals would rather risk eating Ramen noodles in an overpriced apartment in ('First tier city name here - e.g. New York) than stay home and enjoy the 'low cost of living.' I am sure that these other cities are very grateful for our young professionals' flight from Florida...
My best friend's dad travels for work (now primarily to Charlotte), but makes his home in Arlington. If I was banking like that I wouldn't be living in Arlington, but his primary reason for living here is two of his kids are here, including one still in high school, and he just really likes Jacksonville. All the kids went to private school.
In San Marco I met two different families where the breadwinner traveled elsewhere for work. One of them had their kid starting Hendricks Elementary, which is a great primary school. The one conversation I had with them they strongly implied they would be sending him to Bolles or Episcopal for hs. This is a fairly common pattern among the well to do in greater Jax. St Johns schools are also the best in the state.
Judt weird that young professionals flee and existing ones come here
Thanks, I've even heard that there are black ones and gay ones too.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 05, 2012, 05:07:47 PM
St Johns schools are also the best in the state.
Is this true? I don't know one way or the other, but I would like to see some documentation to back it up.
The best in the state is quite an achievement.
https://app2.fldoe.org/Ranking/Districts/
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 04, 2012, 02:02:59 PM
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-26/in-detroit-urban-flight-in-reverse (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-26/in-detroit-urban-flight-in-reverse)
Great article on how Detroit is working on solutions in its downtown area, called Midtown. Interesting that Whole Foods decided to invest in a store downtown, only after the area had more than 5,000 housing units occupied.
What was cooler was that he downtown businesses helped subsidize the living downtown. Is there this kind of investment by the downtown businesses here in Jacksonville? Does Blue Cross offer its employees money for renting downtown? Fidelity?
Florida Blue's campus is on the Southside... so they have no incentive at all to subsidize people living downtown.
But that's part of Detroit's 15x15 initiative (talked about earlier in this thread).
Like Lake mentioned, they are focusing on a larger area that includes places like Midtown (which is a great place to invest nowadays) and Eastern Market.
Residential demand is very high in these areas and now supply is trying to catch up with it.
You see that in Jax with the soon-to-be multi family starts in Brooklyn. I can really see places like Brooklyn and North San Marco (especially with the new design standards set forth in San Marco By Design) become hot places for things like loft conversions, urban big box retailers (A place like Kings Ave already has the demographics depending on how you want to source your sphere and will have direct highway access once the Overland project is complete), mixed use multi family developments, etc.
QuoteA city's cost of living is great, but it is meaningless if residents do not see any value to making a home there.
Totally agree. I gave the example of my two cousins earlier. I have a much higher standard of living than both of them, however they would never want to leave to come here.
People sort themselves into places not just where they can find work, but they also seek environments where they can pursue their personal interests as well.
QuoteEven in Chicago, the Loop is directly impacted by its connectivity with vibrant neighborhoods like Wicker Park and Lakeview. While it would be great to see thousands of residential units in the Northbank, realistically that will take decades and billions to pull off. On the flip end, spend $50 million to provide connectivity between DT and districts like Durkeeville, San Marco, Riverside, etc. and you immediately tie in over 100,000 residents. The synergy between the districts will then naturally drive market rate redevelopment in downtown and the surrounding urban districts.
+100
The connectivity and relationship b/w Lakeview and Wicker Park with the greater urban area of Chicago are a particularly relevant discussion when it comes to comparing places like Downtown Jax and Riverside/Avondale, etc.
Quote from: finehoe on August 06, 2012, 10:10:19 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 05, 2012, 05:07:47 PM
St Johns schools are also the best in the state.
Is this true? I don't know one way or the other, but I would like to see some documentation to back it up. The best in the state is quite an achievement.
The St. Johns County School District is consistently ranked as the best in the state by the types of people who care about things like ranking school districts. As fsquid linked to, the Florida Department of Education ranked the districts based on test scores. This is not a great measure, but it's
a measure, and one thing that matters to people who choose their neighborhoods based on its schools.
https://app2.fldoe.org/Ranking/Districts/
By the FDOE ranking, St. Johns was at the top by a substantial margin (https://app2.fldoe.org/Ranking/Districts/DistGradePtsRank.aspx). It's not particularly surprising when you look at the rankings overall: it's a very wealthy, largely white suburban county, with a lot of new growth and new schools, and a majority populace who clearly value education. Moving down the list are Santa Rosa County (a wealthy, mostly white suburb of Pensacola), Martin County (a very wealthy, mostly white exurb of Miami), Sarasota County, (the wealthy, mostly white county containing, obviously, Sarasota), Gilchrist County (a very small, mostly white rural county) Okaloosa County (the wealthy, mostly white county containing Ft. Walton Beach and Destin) and Seminole County (a wealthy, mostly white suburb of Orlando).
I don't know how any of this affects "young professionals", who are conceivably less likely to have school-age kids than folks a bit older than them. Cline once said the Jacksonville area has become a mecca for established 30- and 40-something professionals with families. That's a very important demographic, but I don't think they have quite the pioneering spirit and creative energy that younger people do, particularly when so many of them live the next county over.