Lessons Learned from Trayvon Martin
Fathers Teach Your Children How To Survive II
By William Jackson, M.Edu.
http://williamdjackson.com/
Trayvon Martin Video: “Am I Trayvon Martinâ€
http://youtu.be/xltHmrTLeMI
Black youth both young men and women are being
killed, their lives seemingly have no valuable.
Just another statistic for vital statistics and crime
reports and another one or two minute sound bite
for news media.
Young men like Trayvon Martin (Sanford, Florida),
Ervin Jefferson (Atlanta, Ga.), 20-year-old Kendrec
Lavelle McDade (Azus), 18 year-old Ramarley Graham
(New York City) taken away by violent deaths.
Violence, claiming the lives of those who should have
promising futures ahead of them, young men and
women have fallen at the hands of those who have
sworn to protect and serve the community, but instead
have caused chaos, sorrow and pain.
Black fathers, grandfathers, uncles and stepfathers are
hard pressed to teach young Black men and a growing
number of Black women survival skills to keep them
from being targets and victims.
President Barack Obama has challenged more Black fathers
to step up and take on the responsibility to teach
their children. Even though he is the President he has
experienced disrespect, curses and hatred is shown to him
because of his color. Racism is not dead…
President Obama has even made the statement that
Trayvon Martin could be his son. What a testament for a
plea for change.
The excuse that Black youth are trouble makers because
they have no fathers does not count in the case of Trayvon
Martin because there is an involved father. The excuse
that Black children are all in poverty is not true from the
lifestyle of the Martin family. They are not welfare
recipients, nor on food stamps, but some in society auto-
matically think they are, this mentality must change.
In the United States of America Black young men
time lines are slowly diminishing; devaluing to a point
of unimportance. Across this country more young Black
men and young Black women are being gunned down.
Fathers, the teaching to our sons and now daughters
should go beyond riding a bike, attending church, dating,
drugs and sex. Fathers have to teach their children lessons
of life, the lessons of survival, how to stay alive when there
are those who do not value them as they should. Fathers,
the responsibility to speak to children is more important
now more than ever.
Personal Fears
True fathers have fear for our sons and now for
our daughters. Attending the Daddy Daughter Dance 2012
I see loving and involved fathers. This needs to grow and be
consistent.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400553/william-jackson/2012-02-27/daddy-daughter-dance-jacksonville
The dance shows that fathers are involved and there are more
Black fathers involved than would be imagined by society.
Fathers fear that their children may die before they do
either at the hands of an overzealous service revolver or
the hands of someone who looks like them. Our young men
and women should be searching for a cure to cancer, diabetes,
heart defects, fighting poverty, working to end hunger
and other social challenges.
Fathers now must teach sons and daughters to look over
their shoulder, how to talk to law enforcement officers, to be
mindful that some see them as less than a man or women.
Be careful who you hang with and who you associate or call
friends.
Black youth should be concentrating on graduating high
school and planning their futures, not having parents planning
funerals.
There is Evidence
The evidence is visible in the media and seen on our streets.
Young Black men and women’s lives are at risk, when
men do not take the time to teach their children how to
conduct themselves in public, pull up their pants, talk
respectfully to adults, respect authority and act with
intelligence and pride, they set their children up for failure.
When Black children are successful in school, in their churches,
earning honors for academic excellence and achievement
they are not acting white, or the other demeaning terms used for
being respectful, educated and career oriented.
Young men and women that act like thugs and gansta’s will be
treated as such and subjected to actions that may prove deadly, but
this mentality is transferred to all young Black men and women.
Young men must be willing to change their mentalities and
actions. Not to change who they are, but to change the perceptions
of society. Too many Black youth are not prepared to grow mentally,
socially and spiritually. To many think it is cool to be uneducated
living on welfare. Parents should not teach their children that a
“Food Stamp†life is a good life.
Teachers can’t teach social responsibility and accountability,
the government can’t teach it, the media can’t teach it,
but fathers and mothers can and must teach the value of education.
If a greater number of families are involved in their children’s lives
crime would be down, education would be a priority and more Black
youth, our young men and women would have more direction and purpose.
Conclusion
The reality is there is a lack of fatherly presence in
Black homes; it affects communities, schools
and churches. It is past time for more fathers to
stand up and make a commitment to their communities.
Fathers must remember that there are several institutions
that want Black children Educational and Institutional, it is up
to parents to direct their children to the correct institution.
Statistics and data do not lie, they can be manipulated, but facts
are facts. It is up to parents to direct children to educational
institutions, vocational schools, career choices, valuable career
options. Steering youth away from the institutions of incarcer-
ation and death.
Parents must know their children’s friends and associates, because they
sometimes do not have your child’s best interests.
Trayvon Martin is a wake up call for all of us to the travesty of
Black youth being murdered. The Trayvon Martin story is not the
first, but parents must work hard to make it the last..
Trayvon Martin Video: Am I Trayvon Martin
http://youtu.be/xltHmrTLeMI
Additional Blogs
Anointing for Fathers
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400553/william-jackson/2012-01-04/anointing-fathers-2012
If Father’s Can
http://seeinggrowth.com/eachonereachone/2011/09/10/if-fathers-can
-by-sean-jackson-florida-am-william-jackson-m-ed-and-cheryl-williams-rn/
I think a lesson we should take from this is a right to flee(not from the Police) needs to be spelled out in our laws. You should have the right to not be near or confronted or questioned by anyone who scares you enough that you want to flee. In this case Zimmerman told the 911 operator that Treyvon was running so he knew Treyvon did not want to be near him. We all have the fight or flight mechanisms and Zimmerman claims Treyvon chose flight but he still would not let him be. Chasing him may constitute a form of harassment but if it doesn't it should. Not a major crime but if your doing it because someone who is unsuccessful at flight is going to be more likely to fight and the cause is the pursuer. What I am getting at if you are committing a crime you are responsible if your gun is used. I believe approaching people who are actively fleeing you could be considered a crime.
I think the biggest problem here is that Zimmerman DID act outside of the law. Being a responsible gun owner and Concealed Weapons Permit holder means "knowing when to hold em', when to fold em', when to walk away and when to run." You should be of the mindset that you hope to never have to use that weapon and that it is only a last resort "I am going to die" situation. You don't go and chase down someone who may or may not have hit you (who is fleeing) to shoot them. That's escalating the situation.
If you pull your weapon, and the opposing side retreats, you've just deescalated the situation. Great, put your safety on, put your gun back in your holster, call the police, and give them a description of the situation then wait for the cops.
I think that's the biggest problem of this whole event, people have come out of the wood work trying to blame it on "thugs" and "gun nuts" and "blacks" and "latinos" and WHOEVER THEY CAN TO GET THEIR POINT ACROSS.
The simple fact is that Zimmerman shouldn't have pulled his weapon at ALL. He DARN SURE shouldn't have pursued Trayvon Martin. Because from what we've ascertained from the various accounts, there was no NEED for him to pull his weapon. There was no IMMINENT DANGER that would have cause him to have to "stand his ground". Mr. Zimmerman alone escalated the situation.
The opposing side was retreating, his job is done at that point.
I wish the African-American community would get as angry about black on black violence as they do about situations like this as unfortunate as they are.
A powerful and meaningful post WilliamJackson. I would only add that ALL Fathers, of all faiths and races, should take time with their children. We should all treasure the limited time we have with our loved ones.
Quote from: stephendare on March 30, 2012, 04:32:07 PM
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on March 30, 2012, 04:18:57 PM
I wish the African-American community would get as angry about black on black violence as they do about situations like this as unfortunate as they are.
What makes you say that? Are black people the only people angry?
No, but how often do you see Corrinne Brown, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc. show up for media coverage of a gang shooting involving black on black violence.
This became a race thing when the medias early reports came in that the Police had not taken the situation seriously as if they had said to Zimmerman don't worry about it pal. That should outrage everyone.
Now it turns out the police wanted him charged and the State Attorney (My gut telling me he was worrying more about his conviction rate than justice) said it would be too hard to get a conviction.
Not a racial motivation by officialdom as originally spun but outrageous no matter what.
This has become a huge mess, however Im going to make a comment. This is about in justice, but lets not be blind and overlook that race does play a part. We see it all the time everywhere. I am a black man. Honestly, If Zimmerman was black and TRay was white, Zimmerman would be under the Jail by now. And we all know its true. Althought I am angered and feel like race is playing a part, I do not agree with the ignorance that is spewing right now. It has gotten out of control. I feel like Im in the 50's again.
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on March 30, 2012, 04:18:57 PM
I wish the African-American community would get as angry about black on black violence as they do about situations like this as unfortunate as they are.
Speaking from a educated black mans perspect, we are outraged by black on black violence. Everyone black does not think its okay.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 30, 2012, 04:54:52 PM
This has become a huge mess, however Im going to make a comment. This is about in justice, but lets not be blind and overlook that race does play a part. We see it all the time everywhere. I am a black man. Honestly, If Zimmerman was black and TRay was white, Zimmerman would be under the Jail by now. And we all know its true. Althought I am angered and feel like race is playing a part, I do not agree with the ignorance that is spewing right now. It has gotten out of control. I feel like Im in the 50's again.
And if zimmerman was blacK no one would care
I think everyone has jumped to conclusions. Media, social media, the black community, the defenders of zimmerman. 99% of these people do not really know the facts. We know bits and pieces... and believe certain bits and discount various pieces.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 30, 2012, 04:54:52 PM
This has become a huge mess, however Im going to make a comment. This is about in justice, but lets not be blind and overlook that race does play a part. We see it all the time everywhere. I am a black man. Honestly, If Zimmerman was black and TRay was white, Zimmerman would be under the Jail by now. And we all know its true. Althought I am angered and feel like race is playing a part, I do not agree with the ignorance that is spewing right now. It has gotten out of control. I feel like Im in the 50's again.
When few key black representatives are spearheading this rally cry and some part of their messages includes "it's not about the race", it really doesn't help them at all because it is making it worse. Why? I don't see a diverse of people rallying behind the cause on the stage. Trust me, I checked local news, national news, bloggers, even tweets of my friends who were at the rally including the black ones.
Don't let the rally leaders involved. Let the people speak for themselves, let them wage a storm, write up massive petitions, put pressure on the local government to investigate properly. I am personally outraged at this entire incident, and I feel full compassion for the parents of Treyvon. I also believe that this stupid Florida law "Stand Your Ground" can be used by criminals to get away.
Also remember, there are over hundreds, maybe thousands cases like this across United States that deserves the same attention as much as the Treyvon incident had.
That's all.
-Josh
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 31, 2012, 10:05:45 AM
I think everyone has jumped to conclusions. Media, social media, the black community, the defenders of zimmerman. 99% of these people do not really know the facts. We know bits and pieces... and believe certain bits and discount various pieces.
I think we can just listen to what Zimmerman said on his 911 call to know he would not leave the kid alone until he created a situation to shoot Treyvon.
Quote from: stephendare on March 31, 2012, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: wsansewjs on March 31, 2012, 10:15:47 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 30, 2012, 04:54:52 PM
This has become a huge mess, however Im going to make a comment. This is about in justice, but lets not be blind and overlook that race does play a part. We see it all the time everywhere. I am a black man. Honestly, If Zimmerman was black and TRay was white, Zimmerman would be under the Jail by now. And we all know its true. Althought I am angered and feel like race is playing a part, I do not agree with the ignorance that is spewing right now. It has gotten out of control. I feel like Im in the 50's again.
When few key black representatives are spearheading this rally cry and some part of their messages includes "it's not about the race", it really doesn't help them at all because it is making it worse. Why? I don't see a diverse of people rallying behind the cause on the stage. Trust me, I checked local news, national news, bloggers, even tweets of my friends who were at the rally including the black ones.
Don't let the rally leaders involved. Let the people speak for themselves, let them wage a storm, write up massive petitions, put pressure on the local government to investigate properly. I am personally outraged at this entire incident, and I feel full compassion for the parents of Treyvon. I also believe that this stupid Florida law "Stand Your Ground" can be used by criminals to get away.
Also remember, there are over hundreds, maybe thousands cases like this across United States that deserves the same attention as much as the Treyvon incident had.
That's all.
-Josh
Josh, no offense, but you have a vast ignorance on this subject.
Having national leaders or famous people get involved im a cause is how people get mobilized. It doesnt matter if its a case of injustice or healthier eating.
Thats just the way things work. The community in which this happened did do all the things you mentioned, and as a result it became apparent that the incident reflects larger issues that we are all working on at the national level as well. Its absurd to criticize people either local or national for working passionately on the issues that inspire or drive them.
Especially if you believe that there are hundreds of thousands of cases just like this happening nationally.
And there is no 'them'. In this matter there really is just an 'us'. It doesnt matter if some of us are black, or gay, or white or handicapped, and of all people you should know that. Even if you personally don't care about the issue, it doesnt make it a 'black' thing. But since you already mentioned that you were outraged, Im not sure what you are driving at here. You seem to be saying that since there arent more non black people involved in the protest that perhaps 'they' should just drop the subject?
Doesnt sound very much like outrage does it?
It matters.
Whether its Trayvon being shot to death by some jackass who thinks there is something fishy about a black kid with skittles talking on the phone or Matthew Shepherd tied up to a post and having the life beat out of him because two assholes and their girlfriends thought there was something wrong with him being such a sissy, it is wrong to take someones life simply because of the underlying bigotry.
Im sorry that you don't see that.
Your points are
duly noted and deeply taken. I was trying to make the point that "it's not about race" when the supporters of that race are representing the opposite of being the same race WHEN they are obnoxiously rallying. Maybe I need to re-clarify what I said. It was not my intention to have "a vast ignorance on the subject".
Hell, I signed petitions and retweet some tweets in supporting the prosecution of Zimmerman. I want to see this guy tried proven guilty and be punished as much as everyone too.
Seeking for justice is simple, but throwing all other factors into the mix including race, gender, perspectives, humanity, and more which makes it complicated. Only time will tell when the smoke clears up.
Go ahead and rip me apart if you like. No matter what I am standing my ground behind my own opinions and perspective, but maintain the notion that I do support justice especially in Treyvon case in the favor of that kid. For the record, I do NOT endorse or support any racist or discrimination toward ANYONE.
-Josh
Quote from: JeffreyS on March 31, 2012, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 31, 2012, 10:05:45 AM
I think everyone has jumped to conclusions. Media, social media, the black community, the defenders of zimmerman. 99% of these people do not really know the facts. We know bits and pieces... and believe certain bits and discount various pieces.
I think we can just listen to what Zimmerman said on his 911 call to know he would not leave the kid alone until he created a situation to shoot Treyvon.
Thank you for making my point...
Quote from: stephendare on March 31, 2012, 11:00:39 AM
If heaven forbid, you are ever murdered for being gay, I hope that people won't think protests over it are 'obnoxious'.
Its a pity that these obnoxious people didnt check with someone first about how best to protest the murder of a 17 year old.
Perhaps you could write them a pithy little note.
Stephen,
I understand where you are coming from. I also comprehends that you are trying to raise a point of a different topic but share the same relationship with this Treyvon incident. The word "obnoxious(ly)" I used is only USED in context to THAT previous post I said. Nothing else. Please don't blow it out of the portion.
And please don't rub it in my nose about gay-related topics, my own mother and sister are lesbians, and I love them so much. I have been a supporter for LGBT for long time. I even helped few of my friends to come out of the closet so they don't have to suffer mentally when they asked for my help.
I am going to sit back and let other posts on this thread. I think it is time to put this little heat between us down, in my opinion. For the record, I admire and adore your spirit and intelligence in debating, and I know that I will lose when I debate with you. :)
Your friend,
Josh
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 31, 2012, 11:02:39 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on March 31, 2012, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 31, 2012, 10:05:45 AM
I think everyone has jumped to conclusions. Media, social media, the black community, the defenders of zimmerman. 99% of these people do not really know the facts. We know bits and pieces... and believe certain bits and discount various pieces.
I think we can just listen to what Zimmerman said on his 911 call to know he would not leave the kid alone until he created a situation to shoot Treyvon.
Thank you for making my point...
Just taking Zimmerman at his word. He said on the call Treyvon was running from him and then he would let him be.
Yes, this is a mess, I hope justice comes out from Corey's investigation and THAT is the justice for this case. I just hope that people do not seek their own justice in the street against their fellow man for the color of their skin. Martin did not deserve to die, either accidentally or intentionally, so I hope that justice will be found in this case, through the means of our courts.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2012, 06:51:47 PM
Yes, this is a mess, I hope justice comes out from Corey's investigation and THAT is the justice for this case. I just hope that people do not seek their own justice in the street against their fellow man for the color of their skin. Martin did not deserve to die, either accidentally or intentionally, so I hope that justice will be found in this case, through the means of our courts.
+1
Rule #1 if your neighborhood watch do not follow someone, just call it in and let the system take care of it. Nothing good is going to come of pursuing someone like this, if thats what happened. But just ran across this on the washington post if its true NBC has some explaining to do.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6
I just experience something similar an hour ago. Ive stayed in my subdivision for about a month now. I'm trying to shed some pounds so I went a thirty minute walk. I was passing this one white guy going to his car and he said " Hey whassup man? Do you stay here?" I thought he was asking If I stayed in the house that were standing near. Which I thought "why would he ask me that?" and I replied " Yea I stay around the corner". When I thought about it, he was asking me If I stayed in the neighborhood, as If I should not have been there. I felt a certain kinda of way afterwards. Like "Wow so a big black guy can walk around his own subdivision without being "suspicious.????" I understand that has been a rash of crimes out here, but c'mon man. That's why I feel so passionate about this case. Profiling DOES happen and happens on a regular basis.
Quote from: civil42806 on April 01, 2012, 05:31:02 PM
Rule #1 if your neighborhood watch do not follow someone, just call it in and let the system take care of it. Nothing good is going to come of pursuing someone like this, if thats what happened. But just ran across this on the washington post if its true NBC has some explaining to do.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6
It is true and amazing what the press will do to make something about race
Quote from: stephendare on April 01, 2012, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: bill on April 01, 2012, 08:02:07 PM
Quote from: civil42806 on April 01, 2012, 05:31:02 PM
Rule #1 if your neighborhood watch do not follow someone, just call it in and let the system take care of it. Nothing good is going to come of pursuing someone like this, if thats what happened. But just ran across this on the washington post if its true NBC has some explaining to do.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6
It is true and amazing what the press will do to make something about race
How was the klavern meeting bill?
As usual, when the facts do not fit into your simple narrative you resort to name calling. In the real world this would get your ass kicked. In your little dork world where you hide behind the computer it demonstrates to everyone what a complete low life turd you are.
Quote from: stephendare on April 01, 2012, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: bill on April 01, 2012, 08:48:39 PM
Quote from: stephendare on April 01, 2012, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: bill on April 01, 2012, 08:02:07 PM
Quote from: civil42806 on April 01, 2012, 05:31:02 PM
Rule #1 if your neighborhood watch do not follow someone, just call it in and let the system take care of it. Nothing good is going to come of pursuing someone like this, if thats what happened. But just ran across this on the washington post if its true NBC has some explaining to do.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6
It is true and amazing what the press will do to make something about race
How was the klavern meeting bill?
As usual, when the facts do not fit into your simple narrative you resort to name calling. In the real world this would get your ass kicked. In your little dork world where you hide behind the computer it demonstrates to everyone what a complete low life turd you are.
I'm sure you have it dead right, bill. There's a national media conspiracy to twist even minor incidents into stories that coddle the blacks, and I'm the type of person who hides behind my secret little Internet identity in my moms basement.
Both of your revelations seem equally valid.
:D
As usual you add in your own diatribe.
They altered the tapes and I can assure you that you would not say that to my face. both facts
Looks like Corey's going after Zimmerman for second degree murder, and he's been taken into custody.
http://m.jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/adam-kealoha-causey/2012-04-11/live-coverage-george-zimmerman-charged-second
QuoteThe new medical reports on the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case tell us a lot. And it is not just for what they find, but also what they don’t find.
First, the reports provide striking evidence that Zimmerman did not start the fight with Martin, and that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense. Martin’s injuries were two-fold: broken skin on his knuckles and the fatal gunshot wound.
Zimmerman’s injuries involved: a fractured nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury.
It takes considerable force to break the skin on multiple knuckles. The large range of injuries on Zimmerman indicates that the Martin’s attack was prolonged. But here is what is missing: where are the injuries to Zimmerman’s hands? Where are the bruises on Martin’s face or other parts of his body? The evidence paints a picture where Martin was the only person landing blows.
The broken skin on Martin’s knuckles and Zimmerman’s wounds obviously provide some justification for self-defense. But if Zimmerman is to have justifiably used self-defense, he can’t have provoked Martin’s attack.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/16/what-zimmerman-martin-medical-reports-tell-us-and-media-didnt/
Crickets
Man with gun has no need to use fists, news at 11.
Unarmed kid has to use hands to defend himself, news at 11.
I still don't understand the issue here. Didn't Zimmerman follow Martin?...against a professionals orders? (Despite the "Daily Callers" incredible story)
That article is filled with some of the most outlandish leaps I have ever read. I do love this though:
Quote
It takes considerable force to break the skin on multiple knuckles. The large range of injuries on Zimmerman indicates that the Martin’s attack was prolonged.
Obvious conclusions, right. Having been in and seen fights, one punch to the face can break a nose, which causes black eyes (black eyes even occur in non-broken nose strikes too), and can scrape the knuckles. Of course, falling on concrete can scrape knuckles too.
Quote
But, in any case, Zimmerman simply asking Martin why he was in the neighborhood doesn’t give Martin the right to start striking him or pounding his head into the concrete sidewalk.
Yes, the left are the ones sensationalizing this story....
Lesson Learned:
Dont ever stalk someone with your car, then jump out to confront them. If Trayvon kicked his ass he deserved it. I know If I was walking through my subdivision at night and some freakin idiot was following me, then jumped out of their vehicle at me, I would have beat them down to.
Lesson Learned
It was never about race and that does not fit into the narrative here.
Quote from: bill on May 17, 2012, 03:38:36 PM
Lesson Learned
It was never about race and that does not fit into the narrative here.
Cant agree with that. Being Africian American my self, I often get profiled. It was never about zimmerman being racist though. I still believe he profiled Martin. Heck cops do it all the time. He seen a black kid with a hoodie on and assumed he was up to no good. Thats profiling.
Agreed but it would be the same for any young male in a hoodie walking through a neighborhood looking out of place. Usually those kids do not follow someone back to their car and beat some ass.
Quote from: bill on May 17, 2012, 04:17:20 PM
Agreed but it would be the same for any young male in a hoodie walking through a neighborhood looking out of place. Usually those kids do not follow someone back to their car and beat some ass.
zimmerman deserved it. He is not the police and he disobeyed the dispatcher directions. I would have kicked his ass too. You dont stalk someone and not expect them to react. Zimmerman had no business stalking the kid from the beginning.
And we're off...
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 17, 2012, 04:21:54 PM
Quote from: bill on May 17, 2012, 04:17:20 PM
Agreed but it would be the same for any young male in a hoodie walking through a neighborhood looking out of place. Usually those kids do not follow someone back to their car and beat some ass.
zimmerman deserved it. He is not the police and he disobeyed the dispatcher directions. I would have kicked his ass too. You dont stalk someone and not expect them to react. Zimmerman had no business stalking the kid from the beginning.
He lived in the neighborhood and was on neighborhood watch. He obeyed the dispatcher and went back to his truck. That is where he was attacked.
By your logic(lack of) Martin got what he deserved. By your reasoning and maturity my guess is that you would not have kicked anyones ass.
Could it be possible that there are no heroes or good guys in this story? Does every story have to have a good guy? Do we have to take sides and pick one or the other?
I am not picking one. There are only losers in this situation.
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 04:43:19 PM
Quote from: bill on May 17, 2012, 04:32:52 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 17, 2012, 04:21:54 PM
Quote from: bill on May 17, 2012, 04:17:20 PM
Agreed but it would be the same for any young male in a hoodie walking through a neighborhood looking out of place. Usually those kids do not follow someone back to their car and beat some ass.
zimmerman deserved it. He is not the police and he disobeyed the dispatcher directions. I would have kicked his ass too. You dont stalk someone and not expect them to react. Zimmerman had no business stalking the kid from the beginning.
He lived in the neighborhood and was on neighborhood watch. He obeyed the dispatcher and went back to his truck. That is where he was attacked.
By your logic(lack of) Martin got what he deserved. By your reasoning and maturity my guess is that you would not have kicked anyones ass.
meh. thats a leap of faith.
Trayvons father also lives in the neighborhood, and Zimmerman was a self appointed neighborhood watch of one. No one asked or appointed him to be 'patrolling' the neighborhood.
Also, trayvon's knuckles hardly mean that he attacked zimmerman first.
But hey, as long as it fits your narrative, right?
Every bit of evidence that has been released and everything that every person said fits the same narrative. Not mine. Go curl up with your doctored NBC tapes and say 3 times "we are all victims".
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 04:56:12 PM
what a bizarre rant.
I suppose on FOX, all day long you keep hearing about these 'people' who are 'professional victims', and it just kind of makes sense to drop the 'victim' bomb whenever a minority or non right-winger is involved, but it really just comes across as bizarre out here in the real world.
But hey, me being a victim fits your narrative dunnit?
Why do you and others want to skew the facts so badly? Like before You being a victim is not my narrative just a fact.
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 05:08:17 PM
Quote from: bill on May 17, 2012, 05:04:12 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 04:56:12 PM
what a bizarre rant.
I suppose on FOX, all day long you keep hearing about these 'people' who are 'professional victims', and it just kind of makes sense to drop the 'victim' bomb whenever a minority or non right-winger is involved, but it really just comes across as bizarre out here in the real world.
But hey, me being a victim fits your narrative dunnit?
Why do you and others want to skew the facts so badly? Like before You being a victim is not my narrative just a fact.
mm hmm. I see. It all makes sense now. I'm a victim (for reasons, unknown), trayvon martin is actually a murderer, and people in hoodies are criminals who need tracked down by stalkers wearing a security cap!
Thanks man.
Point in case. Nice narrative and story BTW.
Interrupting this back and forth...From WOKV just now:
QuoteNEW INFORMATION being released in the 2nd degree murder case against George Zimmerman. State Attorney Angela Corey's office making several pieces of evidence public - including crime scene photos and images of Zimmerman's bloody injuries. There are also reports that Trayvon Martin had THC (the active chemical in cannabis) in his system at the time of his death.
It's going to be interesting to see if this trial occurs to find justice in this tragedy or just to stop a riot.
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 08:32:12 PM
Quote from: jaxnative on May 17, 2012, 08:02:46 PM
It's going to be interesting to see if this trial occurs to find justice in this tragedy or just to stop a riot.
huh?
some jerk calls himself 'neighborhood watch', stalks a kid after being told to stop by cops, and then shoots the kid to death and you think a trial would be for some reason other than justice?
Well ok?
If this was a white kid in ortega who had been shot to death by a fake security guard, no one -----no one----- would be making this embarrassing fuss.
too bad there isn't an ignore button for some people. It would make this site more tolerable at times... :P
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 08:48:01 PM
Quote from: stephenc on May 17, 2012, 08:41:55 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 08:32:12 PM
Quote from: jaxnative on May 17, 2012, 08:02:46 PM
It's going to be interesting to see if this trial occurs to find justice in this tragedy or just to stop a riot.
huh?
some jerk calls himself 'neighborhood watch', stalks a kid after being told to stop by cops, and then shoots the kid to death and you think a trial would be for some reason other than justice?
Well ok?
If this was a white kid in ortega who had been shot to death by a fake security guard, no one -----no one----- would be making this embarrassing fuss.
too bad there isn't an ignore button for some people. It would make this site more tolerable at times... :P
Thats why they made FOX, stephenc. You could always turn the channel up a little louder so that you don't have to read opinions you don't like. ;)
Intelligent opions that differ are great. Its the one that have no regard for the facts that we all get tired of.
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 08:57:46 PM
Quote from: stephenc on May 17, 2012, 08:51:21 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 08:48:01 PM
Quote from: stephenc on May 17, 2012, 08:41:55 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 08:32:12 PM
Quote from: jaxnative on May 17, 2012, 08:02:46 PM
It's going to be interesting to see if this trial occurs to find justice in this tragedy or just to stop a riot.
huh?
some jerk calls himself 'neighborhood watch', stalks a kid after being told to stop by cops, and then shoots the kid to death and you think a trial would be for some reason other than justice?
Well ok?
If this was a white kid in ortega who had been shot to death by a fake security guard, no one -----no one----- would be making this embarrassing fuss.
too bad there isn't an ignore button for some people. It would make this site more tolerable at times... :P
Thats why they made FOX, stephenc. You could always turn the channel up a little louder so that you don't have to read opinions you don't like. ;)
Intelligent opions that differ are great. Its the one that have no regard for the facts that we all get tired of.
Then you should try not posting them.
I gotta admit that was funny. Totally irrelevant since I haven't posted an opinion either way, but funny none the less.
I do not know the whole story; just seems that everyone was able to take sides within 15 minutes of the news....but, why are so many people are on Zimmerman for not being an officially sanctioned security officer when he questioned someone he didn't know being in his neighborhood.
I confess I don't see well at night...a hoodie could be concealing a martian for all I know, and cars stopped here and there might need directions or just maybe they're casing a place, or smoking crack. etc. Yeah, I can relate to Zimmerman a bit. Maybe I deserved to have my butt kicked more than once when I've approached or followed around a corner someone' not known to me who seemed to be wandering or sometimes waiting in my part of the hood.
I watch my corner and have called the police a dozen times a year. Not that I want shootings, but I wish more people would consciously question who and what is happening in their neighborhood whether or not they are ordained security. Just maybe the WHITE guy who walked out of my house with my tv, computer, chainsaw, etc. would have thought twice about it if someone, anyone, had said 'hey, what're you doing?' PS. the police in this case only used a pawn shop list, no CSI with dusting for priints, etc. The police cannot do it without citizens being involved.
No, I would not like someone I didn't know, fixing my plumbing or butchering my shrubbery or lawn without my permission. Yes, I would confront them and yes, I would call the police. And btw, I might have missed it, but I read/heard Zimmerman returned to his car after being told by the dispatcher "we don't need you to do that (follow him). But again,it's only his story that he returned...For all we know, he had the gun drawn and was chasing Martin ala NYPD.
Quote from: bill on May 17, 2012, 03:38:36 PM
Lesson Learned
It was never about race and that does not fit into the narrative here.
Your right it was about a grown man with a gun who just wouldn't let a kid eat his skittles.
The REAL lesson learned here... at least by me... is to not jump to conclusions. None of us know the facts of the case... and even the facts we think we know are likely not the entire story. Picking a side as guilty or not at this point is silly and exposes the biases of those who do...
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 09:19:06 PM
Quote from: twojacks on May 17, 2012, 09:11:57 PM
I do not know the whole story; just seems that everyone was able to take sides within 15 minutes of the news....but, why are so many people are on Zimmerman for not being an officially sanctioned security officer when he questioned someone he didn't know being in his neighborhood.
I confess I don't see well at night...a hoodie could be concealing a martian for all I know, and cars stopped here and there might need directions or just maybe they're casing a place, or smoking crack. etc. Yeah, I can relate to Zimmerman a bit. Maybe I deserved to have my butt kicked more than once when I've approached or followed around a corner someone' not known to me who seemed to be wandering or sometimes waiting in my part of the hood.
I watch my corner and have called the police a dozen times a year. Not that I want shootings, but I wish more people would consciously question who and what is happening in their neighborhood whether or not they are ordained security. Just maybe the WHITE guy who walked out of my house with my tv, computer, chainsaw, etc. would have thought twice about it if someone, anyone, had said 'hey, what're you doing?' PS. the police in this case only used a pawn shop list, no CSI with dusting for priints, etc. The police cannot do it without citizens being involved.
Would you feel the same about someone mowing your lawn, including your ornamentals and vegetables or redoing your plumbing without asking you?
He took it upon himself to patrol with deadly force. But for that fact, this situation wouldn't have happened.
Im sorry, but there is no avenue of possibility in which it was anyone else's responsibility but Zimmermans.
Especially after being ordered to desist by the people we are paying to do the police work.
Yeah no narrative here. Could you at least use some of the FACTS that are in evidence. In your world I guess Zimmerman broke his own nose while going back to his car. Yeah that sounds good. Another victim like you
Quote from: bill on May 18, 2012, 10:13:53 AM
Yeah no narrative here. Could you at least use some of the FACTS that are in evidence. In your world I guess Zimmerman broke his own nose while going back to his car. Yeah that sounds good. Another victim like you
What FACTS are you talking about?
Quote from: stephendare on May 18, 2012, 10:20:26 AM
Quote from: bill on May 18, 2012, 10:13:53 AM
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 09:19:06 PM
Quote from: twojacks on May 17, 2012, 09:11:57 PM
I do not know the whole story; just seems that everyone was able to take sides within 15 minutes of the news....but, why are so many people are on Zimmerman for not being an officially sanctioned security officer when he questioned someone he didn't know being in his neighborhood.
I confess I don't see well at night...a hoodie could be concealing a martian for all I know, and cars stopped here and there might need directions or just maybe they're casing a place, or smoking crack. etc. Yeah, I can relate to Zimmerman a bit. Maybe I deserved to have my butt kicked more than once when I've approached or followed around a corner someone' not known to me who seemed to be wandering or sometimes waiting in my part of the hood.
I watch my corner and have called the police a dozen times a year. Not that I want shootings, but I wish more people would consciously question who and what is happening in their neighborhood whether or not they are ordained security. Just maybe the WHITE guy who walked out of my house with my tv, computer, chainsaw, etc. would have thought twice about it if someone, anyone, had said 'hey, what're you doing?' PS. the police in this case only used a pawn shop list, no CSI with dusting for priints, etc. The police cannot do it without citizens being involved.
Would you feel the same about someone mowing your lawn, including your ornamentals and vegetables or redoing your plumbing without asking you?
He took it upon himself to patrol with deadly force. But for that fact, this situation wouldn't have happened.
Im sorry, but there is no avenue of possibility in which it was anyone else's responsibility but Zimmermans.
Especially after being ordered to desist by the people we are paying to do the police work.
Yeah no narrative here. Could you at least use some of the FACTS that are in evidence. In your world I guess Zimmerman broke his own nose while going back to his car. Yeah that sounds good. Another victim like you
please dispute the following facts:
1. Zimmerman appointed himself to be 'neighborhood watch'
2. Zimmerman was told to stand down by the legitimate cops.
3. Zimmerman was armed with deadly force.
1. You're the only person I've heard say that. Could you provide us a link?
2. The 911 call of course shows that and evidence points to the appearance that he did stand down.
3. Not illegal if he has a concealed weapons. Nothing has been said about the permit so we'll assume he had it.
1. All wounds indicate that Martin was the aggressor.
2. Witness says Martin on top throwing punches.
3. Martin had THC in his system at time of death.
4. Zimmerman has help tutor black youth in the past which negates the whole racist rant.
This could go on and on.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on May 18, 2012, 06:45:51 AM
The REAL lesson learned here... at least by me... is to not jump to conclusions. None of us know the facts of the case... and even the facts we think we know are likely not the entire story. Picking a side as guilty or not at this point is silly and exposes the biases of those who do...
+1
Quote from: stephenc on May 18, 2012, 10:32:22 AM
2. The 911 call of course shows that and evidence points to the appearance that he did stand down.
Really? Oh, you mean that Daily caller speculation on breathing rhythms? Or Trayvon's girlfriend on the phone disputing this?
Quote from: stephenc on May 18, 2012, 10:32:22 AM
1. All wounds indicate that Martin was the aggressor.
2. Witness says Martin on top throwing punches.
3. Martin had THC in his system at time of death.
4. Zimmerman has help tutor black youth in the past which negates the whole racist rant.
This could go on and on.
1. Um, no. Wounds can indicate a lot of things, like who's stronger, who got a better shot in, etc. Aggressor is a stretch.
2. Fight was happening. No one disputes that.
3. THC is marijuana, it can stay in the system for up to a month. It's not PCP, so stop acting like its some kind of aggression drug.
4. The typical "Some of my best friends are black" trope.
Argue all you want about speculation. But the main issue and lesson here is that the Stand Your Ground law encourages this type of vigilante action. They're even having problems with gangs inciting violence then retaliating and claiming stand your ground when they shoot back.
Zimmerman deserves to be tried in front of a jury of his peers, but until all the media attention that trial wasn't happening. So hate on MSNBC/FOX/Sharpton/Cnn and their "choosing of sides" but the system let it get like that.
QuoteStand Your Ground law
Should be re-written to limit the scope where it can be applied. It is sad someone had to die for us to change legislation, but I hope it is kept, but limited in scope, say to your home or office. Yes violence happens elsewhere, but this is a type of "Wild West" legislation that allows people carry concealed weapons and use them when they feel threatened.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 18, 2012, 11:07:45 AM
QuoteStand Your Ground law
Should be re-written to limit the scope where it can be applied. It is sad someone had to die for us to change legislation, but I hope it is kept, but limited in scope, say to your home or office. Yes violence happens elsewhere, but this is a type of "Wild West" legislation that allows people carry concealed weapons and use them when they feel threatened.
+1
Treyvon tried flight Zimmerman said Treyvon was running away in the 911 call. Zimmerman would not let Treyvon retreat so even if at some point Treyvon became the aggressor his actions while perhaps not entirely justified can not be justification for Zimmerman to shoot him. Even if Zimmerman was getting the worst of the situation he created. Let the kid take his skittles and walk all over the neighborhood if he wants none of Zimmerman's damn business.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on May 18, 2012, 06:45:51 AM
The REAL lesson learned here... at least by me... is to not jump to conclusions. None of us know the facts of the case... and even the facts we think we know are likely not the entire story. Picking a side as guilty or not at this point is silly and exposes the biases of those who do...
x2
All I know is Zimmerman let that neighborhood watch thing get to his head. I believe he was a wanna-be cop waiting for something to happen so he can be a hero catching the bad guy. While he was on the phone with the police they said DO NOT RUN AFTER HIM, but he didn't listen and wanted to do things his own way. Now look at what has happened. It is called neighborhood WATCH, not "neighborhood run after a potential criminal" That is law enforcement's job, not his.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 18, 2012, 11:07:45 AM
QuoteStand Your Ground law
Should be re-written to limit the scope where it can be applied. It is sad someone had to die for us to change legislation, but I hope it is kept, but limited in scope, say to your home or office. Yes violence happens elsewhere, but this is a type of "Wild West" legislation that allows people carry concealed weapons and use them when they feel threatened.
The law is clearly written and does not need to be changed. It was not applied in the Martin case. Limiting any "right" to home or office is contrary to the definition of the word.
The right to defend oneself is incontrovertable. The right to "keep and bear arms" is also a basic human right. History is filled with the miseries of populations that have been disarmed by their governments.
1. “Those governments which are founded upon oppression, always find it necessary to engage interests enough in their tyranny to overcome all opposition from those who are tyrannized over, by giving separate and unequal privileges to the instruments and accomplices of their oppression, by letting them share the advantages of it, by putting arms in their hands, and by taking away all the means of self defense from those who have more right to use them.†â€" Cato’s Letters # 97 (October 6, 1722)
“That which someone does for the safety of his body, let it be regarded as having been done legally.†- Justinian ("Digest of Roman Law" 529 AD)
“The right men have by Nature to protect themselves, when none else can protect them, can by no Covenant [the agreement between individuals to form a government, and the laws enacted thereby] be relinquished.â€- Thomas Hobbes ("Leviathan" 1651)
“Must men alone be debarred the common privilege of opposing force with force, which nature allows so freely to all other creatures for their preservation from injury? I answer: self defense is a part of the law of nature, nor can it be denied the community, even against the king himself...â€. - John Locke ("Two Treatises of Government" 1689)
“It is a false idea of utility to sacrifice a thousand real advantages for the sake of one disadvantage which is either imaginary or of little consequence; this would take fire away from men because it burns and water because it drowns people; this is to have no remedy for evils except destruction. Laws forbidding people to bear arms are of this nature; they only disarm those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. On the other hand, how can someone who has the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity and the most important ones in the statute books be expected to respect the most trifling and purely arbitrary regulations that can be broken with ease and impunity and that,
were they enforced, would put an end to personal liberty -- so dear to each man, so dear to the enlightened legislator -- and subject the innocent to all the vexations that the guilty deserve? Such laws place the assaulted at a disadvantage and the assailant at an advantage, and they multiply rather than decrease the number of murders, since an unarmed person may be attacked with greater confidence than someone who is armed. These laws should not be deemed preventive, but rather inspired by a fear of crime. They originate with the tumultuous impact of a few isolated facts, not with a rational consideration of the drawbacks and advantages of a universal decree.†- Cesare Baccaria ("On Crimes and Punishment" 1764)
“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.†â€" Mohandas Ghandi ("Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth " 1948)
“As we have seen, the first public expression of disenchantment with nonviolence arose around the question of “self-defense.†In a sense this is a false issue, for the right to defend one’s home and one’s person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law.†â€"Martin Luther King Jr. (" Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community?) (Chapter II, Black Power)
"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms." - Aristotle
2. In the sixth century BCE, a tyrant named Pisistratus took over Athens. Aristotle explained how the tyrant obtained absolute power by disarming the people of every city he controlled:
After his victory in the battle at Pallene he captured Athens, and when he had disarmed the people he at last had his tyranny securely established, and was able to take Naxos (a Greek island) and set up Lygdamis as ruler there. He effected the disarmament of the people in the following manner. He ordered a parade in full armour in the Theseum (a temple), and began to make a speech to the people. He spoke for a short time, until the people called out that they could not hear him, whereupon he bade them come up to the entrance of the Acropolis, in order that his voice might be better heard. Then, while he continued to speak to them at great length, men whom he had appointed for the purpose collected the arms and locked them up in the chambers of the Theseum hard by, and came and made a signal to him that it was done. Pisistratus accordingly, when he had finished the rest of what he had to say, told the people also what had happened to their arms; adding that they were not to be surprised or alarmed, but go home and attend to their private affairs, while he would himself for the future manage all the business of the state. (Aristotle, The Athenian Constitution, ch. 15, translated by Sir Frederic G. Kenyon)
"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -- Mohandas Gandhi, An Autobiography, pg 446
"The Night of the Broken Glass (Kristallnacht)--the infamous Nazi rampage against Germany's Jews--took place in November 1938. It was preceded by the confiscation of firearms from the Jewish victims. On Nov. 8, the New York Times reported from Berlin, "Berlin Police Head Announces 'Disarming' of Jews," explaining:
The Berlin Police President, Count Wolf Heinrich von Helldorf, announced that as a result of a police activity in the last few weeks the entire Jewish population of Berlin had been "disarmed" with the confiscation of 2,569 hand weapons, 1,702 firearms and 20,000 rounds of ammunition. Any Jews still found in possession of weapons without valid licenses are threatened with the severest punishment.1
On the evening of Nov. 9, Adolf Hitler, Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, and other Nazi chiefs planned the attack. Orders went out to Nazi security forces: "All Jewish stores are to be destroyed immediately . . . . Jewish synagogues are to be set on fire . . . . The Führer wishes that the police does not intervene. . . . All Jews are to be disarmed. In the event of resistance they are to be shot immediately."2
All hell broke loose on Nov. 10: "Nazis Smash, Loot and Burn Jewish Shops and Temples." "One of the first legal measures issued was an order by Heinrich Himmler, commander of all German police, forbidding Jews to possess any weapons whatever and imposing a penalty of twenty years confinement in a concentration camp upon every Jew found in possession of a weapon hereafter."3 Thousands of Jews were taken away.
Invading Nazi troops in Holland in 1940 immediately nailed up posters announcing a ban on all firearms. From Die Deutsche Wochenshau, May 15, 1940.
Searches of Jewish homes were calculated to seize firearms and assets and to arrest adult males. The American Consulate in Stuttgart was flooded with Jews begging for visas: "Men in whose homes old, rusty revolvers had been found during the last few days cried aloud that they did not dare ever again return to their places of residence or business. In fact, it was a mass of seething, panic-stricken humanity."4
Himmler, head of the Nazi terror police, would become an architect of the Holocaust, which consumed six million Jews. It was self evident that the Jews must be disarmed before the extermination could begin." - Stephen P. Halbrook (Registration: The Nazi Paradigm)
For a fourth example, pick one:
USSR
China
Cambodia
Hungary
Yugoslavia
As stated earlier, history is filled with examples.
Quote from: stephenc on May 17, 2012, 08:41:55 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 17, 2012, 08:32:12 PM
Quote from: jaxnative on May 17, 2012, 08:02:46 PM
It's going to be interesting to see if this trial occurs to find justice in this tragedy or just to stop a riot.
huh?
some jerk calls himself 'neighborhood watch', stalks a kid after being told to stop by cops, and then shoots the kid to death and you think a trial would be for some reason other than justice?
Well ok?
If this was a white kid in ortega who had been shot to death by a fake security guard, no one -----no one----- would be making this embarrassing fuss.
too bad there isn't an ignore button for some people. It would make this site more tolerable at times... :P
Hello no, embrace the negativity sometimes. For your own amusement, because it'd be boring if everyone in the world had the exact same opinion about every damn thing.
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on March 30, 2012, 04:18:57 PM
I wish the African-American community would get as angry about black on black violence as they do about situations like this as unfortunate as they are.
That has to be the most ignorant thing I've heard all day.
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on March 30, 2012, 04:39:12 PM
Quote from: stephendare on March 30, 2012, 04:32:07 PM
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on March 30, 2012, 04:18:57 PM
I wish the African-American community would get as angry about black on black violence as they do about situations like this as unfortunate as they are.
What makes you say that? Are black people the only people angry?
No, but how often do you see Corrinne Brown, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc. show up for media coverage of a gang shooting involving black on black violence.
The media, mostly, only chooses to focus on stories involving white victims and white criminals. It's true. If a black child shoots up his school, you'll hardly ever hear about it. They're just dismissed as "monsters." A white child does it and it makes national news. People talk about his abusive childhood and him/her getting bullied in school. Books are written, movies are made, and Nancy Grace also begins chopping her gums. Everyone is trying to figure out "Why? Oh, why?"
Natalee Holloway and Laci Peterson received intense national attention when they went missing.
Casey Anthony and Amy Fisher aka "Long Island Lolita" became infamous for their crimes.
When have you ever seen a young, black girl receive such high coverage when she goes missing?
A seven-year-old boy was killed and had he not been Jennifer Hudson's nephew, would we know so much about it?
All crime, no matter what race committed it, is bad! All victims deserve the same coverage when their loved ones are going nuts trying to find them.
Challenge my view if you want to.
Tamara,
I wouldn't challenge your statements about the media, but I think it goes beyond race. Attractive and/or famous persons are highlighted. It's about ratings and money. That's why Hudson's nephew became a national headline. There also seems to be ideological driven stories at times. But there does seem to be a focus on pretty young white girls, doesn't there?
Quote from: NotNow on July 05, 2012, 04:03:51 AM
Tamara,
I wouldn't challenge your statements about the media, but I think it goes beyond race. Attractive and/or famous persons are highlighted. It's about ratings and money. That's why Hudson's nephew became a national headline. There also seems to be ideological driven stories at times. But there does seem to be a focus on pretty young white girls, doesn't there?
"Attractive and/or famous persons are highlighted" um I think I made that point already when I brought up Hudson's nephew. You're half right. If a non-famous attractive young, black girl went missing you think the media will explode like they did for natalee Holloway? No!
"But there does seem to be a focus on young white girls, doesn't there?"
Uh...yes I think I made that point to in regards to Laci Peterson and Holloway.
OK, sorry for agreeing with you. It appeared that your point was the race of the victim, mine was to add looks.
Quote from: NotNow on July 05, 2012, 10:52:01 AM
OK, sorry for agreeing with you. It appeared that your point was the race of the victim, mine was to add looks.
Don't apologize, I understand. You're right btw. Im just having trouble figuring out why this is still the case. Does the media even acknowledge it? They have to be aware of what they are doing...
Are do they just pretend it's not true?
boy this story has dropped off the radar
Actually civil, there was an updated report on the local news a couple days back that featured pictures of Mr. Zimmerman's bloody and swollen nose taken by a police officer at the scene. Then another report about Trayvon's mom coming to speak to a group here in Jacksonville I believe.
Diane
George Zimmerman Sues NBC, Says He's A Victim Of 'Yellow Journalism':
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/07/166727771/george-zimmerman-sues-nbc-says-hes-a-victim-of-yellow-journalism
Former Florida neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman says NBC Universal's editorial decisions made him look like a racist when the network covered the shooting and killing of teenager Trayvon Martin.
He's filed a lawsuit in Florida, alleging NBC saw the shooting "not as a tragedy, but as an opportunity to increase ratings, and so set about to create the myth that George Zimmerman was a racist and predatory villain." His main example is the 911 call he placed on Feb. 26 to authorities just before the shooting occurred. Zimmerman says NBC altered his conversation with the dispatcher.
The complaint alleges the first altered call that NBC aired on March 29 included these statements, in which Zimmerman described Martin:
"Zimmerman: There is a real suspicious guy. Ah, this guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something. He looks black."
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Ok we don't need you to do that."
On March 20, the complaint alleges NBC changed Zimmerman's remarks to this:
"Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good or on drugs or something. He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that."
The suit claims the audio had several deletions, and about a minute of conversation was ultimately taken out. Zimmerman alleges some dialogue was also moved around to create the false impression that he had a racist motive.
The lawsuit says the conversation Zimmerman had with the dispatcher actually went like this:
"Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: OK and this guy - is he white, black or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/07/166727771/george-zimmerman-sues-nbc-says-hes-a-victim-of-yellow-journalism