Metro Jacksonville

What would you do?

I think I'd let the man who pays his salary make that call.

Quote from: Elwood on March 24, 2012, 06:53:53 PM
I think I'd let the man who pays his salary make that call.

So you blindly agree with who pays his salary, however my question was what would you do.  Your answer indicates your a follower.  If Mr. Khan would have let him go, would you have voted differently? Maybe you should have voted "I do not know". Let's pretend you have to make the call.  What would you do?

Not blind at all. I just think it smells of arrogance to assume that a fan knows what is best for a franchise. Would it be any different than me walking in to where you work and being able to decide that you should lose your job, even though I don't know the first thing about what you do? Being a fan is passionate and can be emotional. But to question whether someone "deserves" to have their job? I think not.

Gene Smith should have been shown the door at the same time Jack Del Rio was let go, if for no other reason than to make a clean break from the past and start moving toward a more successful future. It's nothing personal against Smith, but his track record, with the draft in particular, has been amongst the worst of all NFL GM's.

It's not arrogance, Elwood, it's -- as you said -- passion. In an age of unprecedented access and information, I think every professional sports franchise probably has at least a few hundred hardcore, mega-informed fans who could probably competently draft for their franchise. In fact, I think it's arrogant to imply that Jags fan "don't know the first thing about what Gene Smith does."

Many people who are saying that Smith needs to go are investing hundreds, if not thousands of dollars in the Jags each year. When you're spending that kind of money, you're more than entitled to voice your displeasure with the direction of the franchise, whether it be front office or on the field.

I say keep him, atleast until the rest of his contract. Remember, this is the guy who revamped the D. Many Gator fans will continue to hold 'Not drafting the Messiah' against Gene no matter what; He could have drafted a couple of Pro Bowl type players, and not draft Tebow, and the legions of the sheep will still have the negative vibe towards Gene. SMH.

Well, at the time of this posting the majority says..... Keep Him.  3/2 (ha)

Are you seriously kidding me?  The guy has been in charge for going on 4 years and you're ready to cut his head off.  I will admit his last few drafts have not been glamourous, but it's not like they've been bad.  You have to take a few steps back and appreciate the entire workings of the beast.

He started as a scout.  He was promoted through the ranks as a lead scout.  He was ultimately given the job as a GM after the firing of Shack Harris.  He has started from scratch and made his best attempt at rebuilding the entire roster from ground zero.  His head coach, while being with him for years, was fired as he was offered an extension which he origionally turned down, was re-approved and accepted under new ownership.  He has given free reign under the new management for both FA and the draft.....  Yet some think he should be fired.

Gene Smith has taken the calling of rebuilding the entire franchise.  And in year 4 most of his picks have been labeled with names such as, "un-sexy", "not flashy", "safe", "conservative", etc... But if you think about it, you can't take a chance with a foundation.  You have to make sure it's rock solid.  The thing you haven't heard about Gene's picks, "bust", "sketchy", "inconsistent","out-of-the-NFL", etc....  Meaning that while safe picks, they've been productive starters from day one for the most part.  As far as making the 'sexy' pick of the draft, maybe later, but not during the rebuilding process.

His FA pickups have been solid.  Again, they haven't been flashy or the prestigeous picks, but they've been solid additions to the team.  Poz, for all the good things he did on the field last year, wasn't a top flight pick during FA.  He was an OK Linebacker with poor coverage skills. Ooops.  We graded him over the rest and apparently made the right pick, because under the watchful eye of his DC, he seemed to always be in the right place at the right time and while not able to catch the ball, per se, he always seemed to be in position to break up the passing play in his direction.  Round Pegs / Round Holes.  Poz is the perfect example.  Landry, Sessions (when not hurt), Mincey, Roth, etc... led our team to a overall ranking of 6.  Better than all of 5 other teams in the NFL.  He's turning an eye to the O, for the right price.

Who here would have really been happy with a $21M payout to Garcon?  Not me.  What about $85M to Jackson, who's one DUI away from 1YR suspension? Again, not me.  The pickup of Robinson at a reasonable price, after taking into account his old head coach and his offseason workour coach, Sullivan, seems like an awesome addition.  Plus, most teams don't get the credit they deserve for signing their own, which we did en masse.  All at solid contracts that pay for performance without giving away the farm for a name.  We are setting the template for the rest of the league to folllow with regards to FA.

The biggest unknown for next year is the guy throwing the ball.  We moved up to draft him at 10 for a reason, and I can't hold him completely accountable for what happened last year.  It was the perfect storm of reasons to want to quit.  He came in named a project, then they let go of Garrard all of a sudden.  He was still only a  backup, until McCown went out in G2.   Now, without a preseason, a training camp or 3 more years of college, he's named the starter of an NFL team.  He was also handcuffed with what he was allowed to do, he was still getting used to taking snaps from under center and he was also working with a busted line that was full of issues on the right hand side.   Let's add a cherry to his issues - he didn't have a solid recieving corp to throw the ball to.  It seemed like every well placed throw in a difficult situation ended up in a drop by the WR/TE - heartbreaking to say the least.

People will always compare him to the other rookies in that draft - Newton, Ponder, Dalton & Tebow.  For starters - Tebow wasn't a rookie - he doesn't count.  Newton - how many games did he win?  Yeah, I thought so.  Dalton, well he was drafted AFTER their #1 WR, and how many playoff games did he start in?  That's what I thought.  Even thought he was in a worse situation than his peers, and didn't have the hype of some of them, he was still projected as a top 10 pick.  And he did just as well, statistically speaking, as the rest of them.  An offseason with the proper coaching and the team adding the pieces around him should make the difference that we're all looking for.

Bust on Gene all you want, I'll still follow.  I think overall and I can view the league critically while maintaining a jaded eye.  There's no blind faith.  The history speaks unto itself, so there's reason to be positive.

Very nicely written NRW, and I wholeheartedly agree.

This is an upgrade on the Panda Express and Long John Silver's threads.

5-3 baby, keep it going the 'right' way!  ;D

Wouldn't it make the most sense to get Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill to manage the draft pick process?

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 24, 2012, 09:44:22 PM
Dalton, well he was drafted AFTER their #1 WR, and how many playoff games did he start in?

One, in a forgettable 31-10 loss at Houston. The Bengals made the playoffs at 9-7, just pointing out the facts. I agree with everything that you said though.

Quote from: Brian Siebenschuh on March 25, 2012, 02:15:09 AM
Wouldn't it make the most sense to get Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill to manage the draft pick process?

Moneyball reference.  Nice. 

I may not have a PhD in Mathamtics from an Ivy League school, but I've tried using all sorts of measurables in football to apply a similar system, but football is truly a team sport, and each different play requires all 11 on the field to be on the same page. 

For baseball's hitting, pitching & fielding stats, it's a one-one game.  The batter v/s pitcher, the pitcher v/s batter, the fielder v/s batter.  And also, the fact that baseball is played over 162 regular season games v/s 16, it allowed more time for tendencies to develop.  The depth that baseball sabermetrics go is ungodly. 

Gene Smith will never build a team better than 9-7. 

He has wasted picks already trying to be the smartest guy in the room.  Taking several small school guys who haven't panned out, thinking he knows more than 31 other organizations.  He has taken the most small school guys of any GM in the NFL during his tenure.   Where has that gotten us?

I don't want to "hate" on the Jaguars as they are our home team, I just don't think Gene Smith can take us where we want to go.

I'm glad he hasn't done a TERRIBLE job so far, but if that's all we can get excited about means we have a long way to go. 

Please name me someone that the Jaguars drafted that was a "home run" under Gene?  How about Free Agents?

 

Quote from: Gators312 on March 25, 2012, 12:54:27 PM
Gene Smith will never build a team better than 9-7. 

He has wasted picks already trying to be the smartest guy in the room.  Taking several small school guys who haven't panned out, thinking he knows more than 31 other organizations.  He has taken the most small school guys of any GM in the NFL during his tenure.   Where has that gotten us?

I don't want to "hate" on the Jaguars as they are our home team, I just don't think Gene Smith can take us where we want to go.

I'm glad he hasn't done a TERRIBLE job so far, but if that's all we can get excited about means we have a long way to go. 

Please name me someone that the Jaguars drafted that was a "home run" under Gene?  How about Free Agents?

 

9-7 is being nice. 

Shocker! Someone with the word 'Gators' in their screenname doesn't like Gene Smith; I didn't see that one coming!  :o

Quote from: Gators312 on March 25, 2012, 12:54:27 PM
Please name me someone that the Jaguars drafted that was a "home run" under Gene?  How about Free Agents?

I'm not sure what your definition of home run is, but Knighton, Monroe, Cox, and Alualu are quality starters, and Britton has been when healthy.  Posluszny, Landry, Coleman, Session were all quality FA acquisitions, and Lowery was stolen for a 7th round pick in a trade.  That's 9 good starters and a good nickel back, who is almost like a starter in today's NFL.

I also think Rackley will become a good starter.  No complaints about picking up Robinson and Ross this year in FA either.

Thomas had a bad 2011 but was more productive than 90% of fourth round picks in 2009-10. 

Jennings is a quality backup, and was a 7th rounder; maybe 20% of 7th rounders even make an NFL regular season roster for a year.

Austen Lane and Jarret Dillard are performing at a more than adequate level for 5th round picks.

D'Anthony Smith was injured for the past two years, and it's probably too early to judge Prosinski. 

The only real stinker picks of the past three years have been Hart and McGee.  And probably Issac, because with all the corners the Jags have accumulated, I doubt he makes the roster this year. 

Obviously, much of the ultimate verdict on the Gene record hinges on how Gabbert does.

Quote from: I-10east on March 24, 2012, 08:28:52 PM
I say keep him, atleast until the rest of his contract. Remember, this is the guy who revamped the D. Many Gator fans will continue to hold 'Not drafting the Messiah' against Gene no matter what; He could have drafted a couple of Pro Bowl type players, and not draft Tebow, and the legions of the sheep will still have the negative vibe towards Gene. SMH.

You're right he could have drafted Earl Thomas, Jason-Pierre Paul, Maurkice Pouncey or Devin McCourty who went to the Pro Bowl instead of drafting Tebow......left off Jermaine Greshem, but he's TE and that was probably last place we were drafting.

Count me as one Gator who didn't want the Jags to draft Tim or Percy for that matter.   Too much pressure would be put on them to succeed immediately.  They would have broken Percy immediately, because Percy is fragile and and the Jaguars were offensively challenged.   The Tim circus would have gotten Jacksonville on the map, as Khan wants to do, but circuses are smelly and that's how it would have gotten.  Some people will never acknowledge the good he does and there are others who think he has no faults.  Those attitudes would never change due to his dynamic no matter how many Super Bowls he won or didn't.  Too much animosity for me.

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 25, 2012, 01:13:52 PM

Quote from: Gators312 on March 25, 2012, 12:54:27 PM
Please name me someone that the Jaguars drafted that was a "home run" under Gene?  How about Free Agents?

I'm not sure what your definition of home run is, but Knighton, Monroe, Cox, and Alualu are quality starters, and Britton has been when healthy.  Posluszny, Landry, Coleman, Session were all quality FA acquisitions, and Lowery was stolen for a 7th round pick in a trade.  That's 9 good starters and a good nickel back, who is almost like a starter in today's NFL.

I also think Rackley will become a good starter.  No complaints about picking up Robinson and Ross this year in FA either.

Thomas had a bad 2011 but was more productive than 90% of fourth round picks in 2009-10. 

Jennings is a quality backup, and was a 7th rounder; maybe 20% of 7th rounders even make an NFL regular season roster for a year.

Austen Lane and Jarret Dillard are performing at a more than adequate level for 5th round picks.

D'Anthony Smith was injured for the past two years, and it's probably too early to judge Prosinski. 

The only real stinker picks of the past three years have been Hart and McGee.  And probably Issac, because with all the corners the Jags have accumulated, I doubt he makes the roster this year. 

Obviously, much of the ultimate verdict on the Gene record hinges on how Gabbert does.

Obviously your standards and mine differ....Not one Pro Bowl appearance?   Sure he hasn't completely struck out, but on this level, especially in the Jaguars position, they needed more production. 

If Gene has been hired to just be ok, then I guess I shouldn't be complaining. 

I-10 what? FSU, Miami, UGA?  or are you one of those Jag fans who hate the Gators because they sell 90k every week?

I explained my reasons in which Tebow plays no part of my opinion of the Jags, so if you want to elaborate with facts on why you think Gene needs a gold star please share.

^^^So basically you're saying that the jury is already out concerning the Jags free agents, and draft picks. Poz had a Pro Bowl type season last year, but of course the big name fan favorites are gonna get the picks, so it's misleading to solely judge a team to have Pro Bowl players in a rebuilding phase.

The Gators selling out 90K doesn't have anything to do concerning my dislike for them. I don't dislike Gator fans, one of my best friends is a Gator. There's a laundry list of other things though concerning my detest for that university.

Pro Bowl appearances aren't a good way to judge, I don't think, because of the inherent biases toward big-name teams and players who get grandfathered in on reputation.  It's also fairly unusual for a player to make the Pro Bowl in his first two or three years unless there is a huge spotlight on him either due to pre-draft hype or his team's performance.  Several of the players we've acquired since 2009 have played at or near a Pro Bowl level.  Posluszny as I-10 mentioned, Knighton in 2010, Monroe last year.  Cox was terrific last year until he got hurt.  Ask the Jets how they feel about giving away Lowery and replacing him with Eric Smith.

McCourty, who you mentioned, did indeed make a Pro Bowl but that was mostly on interception total (not the best way to judge a corner's cover skills; some bad corners have racked up big-time INT totals simply from the volume of times they're targeted) and on playing for a marquee team.  Ask Patriot fans if they were happy with his performance in 2011.  McCourty certainly isn't a bad player, but I'd rather have Cox.

I see your point about JPP and Earl Thomas, but it's not like we took a stiff in lieu of those guys, JPP was considered a high-risk player with major bust potential due to his limited experience, and Landry and Lowery more than acceptably remedied the holes at safety a year after Thomas would have filled one of them. 

I'd like to have taken Pouncey but it's very rare for a guard to go at #10, where we were picking, and I understand we tried and failed to trade back.  That happens.  I doubt Gene Smith was ignorant of Pouncey's talent level.  Pouncey would've been around at 18 or 19 or wherever he was taken.  Alualu would have gone to Miami at 12 if we didn't take him.  I don't think Pouncey is much better of a guard than Alualu is of a defensive tackle.

Would you have taken someone else in lieu of Monroe in the first in 2009?  A lot of people are still ticked off that we didn't take Crabtree, a moderately productive WR, instead of a good left tackle.

On an unrelated note, why is this discussion in the "St. John's County" section of the forum?

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 25, 2012, 01:54:18 PM
On an unrelated note, why is this discussion in the "St. John's County" section of the forum?

Good question, I didn't even notice it. My only guess is that BSC was confused, and that he lives in St John's County. Both of his 'Gene threads' in the the SJC forum. *Que a moderator to move the threads*

I think it's senseless to call for Gene's head after only three years, which have been spent almost entirely rebuilding the team. I think Smith is underrated. Most picks have been pretty damn solid, with few complete bombs. Last year he managed to turn our defense completely around, and they should easily be as good this year.

The jury's clearly still out on Gabbert, but it'd be pretty stupid to write him off entirely based only on last season, for the various reasons already highlighed. Let's see what happens this season. I fully expect major improvement across the board. If that doesn't happen, I'll reevaluate my thoughts on Gene, but until the evidence says otherwise, I'm optimistic.

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 25, 2012, 01:54:18 PM

Would you have taken someone else in lieu of Monroe in the first in 2009?  A lot of people are still ticked off that we didn't take Crabtree, a moderately productive WR, instead of a good left tackle.

On an unrelated note, why is this discussion in the "St. John's County" section of the forum?

Really only B.J. Raji other than Monroe.  And sometimes need dictates strategy. 

Can we really credit Smith for Poz?  Yes he signed him, but he was a proven commodity at that point and if you or I were the GM we have targeted him in FA.

 





I disagree regarding

Quote from: I-10east on March 25, 2012, 02:09:36 PM

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 25, 2012, 01:54:18 PM
On an unrelated note, why is this discussion in the "St. John's County" section of the forum?

Good question, I didn't even notice it. My only guess is that BSC was confused, and that he lives in St John's County. Both of his 'Gene threads' in the the SJC forum. *Que a moderator to move the threads*

Move those threads!  Move those threads!  Move those threads!  Move!

Quote from: Gators312 on March 25, 2012, 02:33:24 PM
Really only B.J. Raji other than Monroe.  And sometimes need dictates strategy. 

Can we really credit Smith for Poz?  Yes he signed him, but he was a proven commodity at that point and if you or I were the GM we have targeted him in FA.

Considering that other teams that wanted a MLB in FA had to settle for lesser players, yes, credit to Gene for making that one happen.  If we were lining up Stephen Tulloch in the middle, I doubt anyone would be saying "oh well, I wouldn't have credited Gene for getting Poz anyway."  They'd be mad at him for having missed the superior player.  Sure, it was a no-brainer to pursue him, but we're the ones who landed him.  Anyway, I-10 and I only brought up Poz after it was mentioned that Gene had brought in no Pro Bowl-caliber free agents.

I liked Raji going into that draft too, because I didn't expect Monroe to fall to us.  I think we got Raji's equal in Knighton in the third.

I think any GM that didn't get Tebow should be fired.

(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150619953552337&set=a.10150394382257337.345268.551967336&type=1)

Gators312 - Right on Man!

This is Smith's make it or be shown the door year. Yes, new owner, higher expectations. Forget the BS about "well, we're rebuilding", Smith could make a career rebuilding and never get anywhere, oh, wait, that is what he has done here with the Jags, so far. This is his breakout year or its not. So Gabbert better lead them to the playoffs, and 9-7 can be done, yes, the Bengals did it with a new QB, so Gabbert can do it, question is will he?

Smith drafted Alualu who is a good player, but how many people come to Everbank Field to see Alualu? That's the impact that Tebow would have made on the team and its finances. Smith did not see that 2 years ago and he did not want him here either. If the Jags really wanted Tebow, they could have got him, but its over for now, at least.

The only good thing I have EVER heard Smith say was that he would be willing to trade down to a lower pick for more draft picks. He has yet to pull it off in his tenure, but that would be nice to see if we could pickup a few more draft picks for players.

Everyone keeps saying we need a DE, well, maybe we do, Roth probably won't be back and lord knows Mincey plays well against the Colts and only the Colts, but we still lack a go to WR, and Smith has not been busy bringing in a go to receiver. Sure he has been bolstering the D, but no new OL or WR to help. Is Britton going to be able to play a full season?

Those that want Gene out have taken the lead in the poll; Keep in mind, many of that same demographic wanted Tebow here in town; In all of the earlier 'Should Tebow come to Jax' polls in this city, there were substantial numbers that favored of him being here. so take that for what it's worth.  On a side note, is it just me, or does Gene Smith have the whole Bruce Banner thing goin' with the hair and all; The Gene haters better watch out, he's gonna turn into the Hulk on yall asses!!! LOL

^ not that I'm a comic book expert, but isn't it Bruce Banner?

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 25, 2012, 05:45:41 PM
Smith drafted Alualu who is a good player, but how many people come to Everbank Field to see Alualu? That's the impact that Tebow would have made on the team and its finances. Smith did not see that 2 years ago and he did not want him here either. If the Jags really wanted Tebow, they could have got him, but its over for now, at least.

I'm too tired.  I'm too tipsy.  So I'm going to make a mockery of this one statement. 

How many people are lining up in Denver to see Tebow play this year?  Case Closed.

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 25, 2012, 05:45:41 PM
Smith drafted Alualu who is a good player, but how many people come to Everbank Field to see Alualu? That's the impact that Tebow would have made on the team and its finances. Smith did not see that 2 years ago and he did not want him here either.

Yet, for the past two years, Jags fans still managed to sell out games. Please don't say the obligatory 'companies had to but tickets' because that happened in other markets too, and some (SD, CIN, TB etc) can't even sell out games, so I'm not buying that cliched and overused  'No Tebow lead to poor attendance' crap. We have a very attractive home schedule this year, and I'll be surprised if we have any blackouts for 2012, esp. with a significantly better team (coaches, and players). 

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 25, 2012, 05:45:41 PM
If the Jags really wanted Tebow, they could have got him, but its over for now, at least.

Yeah, I guess that you've been living in Guam the past week; If Tebow 'really' wanted the Jags, he could have came here, but (luckily for me and other logical Jags fans) he chose the NYJ. Yall are really like scorned women with this dumb Tebow to Jax crap; Yall will never let it go!

Quote from: tufsu1 on March 25, 2012, 09:34:04 PM
^ not that I'm a comic book expert, but isn't it Bruce Banner?

Yeah you're right, obviously I'm no comic book expert either. I'll edit it, in an attempt to act like I got it right all along. LOL

Quote from: I-10east on March 25, 2012, 10:07:37 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on March 25, 2012, 09:34:04 PM
^ not that I'm a comic book expert, but isn't it Bruce Banner?

Yeah you're right, obviously I'm no comic book expert either. I'll edit it, in an attempt to act like I got it right all along. LOL

You weren't totally wrong. "Bruce Banner" is the Hulk's name in the comic. When they made the 1977 TV show, they changed the character's name to "David Banner", evidently because the strudio didn't think Bruce was a manly enough name. The rapper takes his stage name from the TV show (he's older than he looks). The 2003 Ang Lee film confused the issue by including both Bruce Banner as the Hulk, and his father, David Banner.

My feelings are very mixed... I voted to fire ONLY because IMHO it should have been a clean break from JDR and Weaver.  To this point I do NOT think he should have been or should be fired due to performance... 3 years is not enough to recover from the notorious "Harris" years...

Of course he should be the General Manager.  It's all going to come down to the development of Blaine Gabbert.  We'll see how it all plays out this year...  Everyone's all up in arms b/c we had a bad year last season, and Tim Tebow is in New York now

Tons of injuries last year.  We did manage to go from one of the worst Defenses in 2010 to one of the best in 2011.. b/c our GM landed some good Free Agents.

We are a Defensive End away from being an elite Defense.. And we have an new offensive minded coaching staff. There are good things ahead, and I'm excited!

QuoteYet, for the past two years, Jags fans still managed to sell out games.

Are you for real? Tarp covered stands and even though we managed to "sell out" the games, the stands were still empty, for TV purposes. Get real, we need to pull off the tarps to really have a sell out. We used to have a full stadium in the beginning, and Green Bay, the other small market stadium does not need tarps to sell out the stadium, for real. We've had enough generations come through our city, to be able to fill the stadium. The Gators are mediocre, FSU is a bit better, the Sharks are a great inspiration. We could do it again, its all a choice!

Tebow had no power in the deal, in his own defense, he said "I want to go wherever is best for the Denver Broncos and the situation I am in". Elway is full of crap, and no player ever, I repeat, EVER has any say so on where they are going to go after only 2 years in the NFL. He had no power, the Broncos sent him to the Jets for a better deal than what the Jags offered. This was NOT Tebow's decision.

QuoteTons of injuries last year.  We did manage to go from one of the worst Defenses in 2010 to one of the best in 2011.. b/c our GM landed some good Free Agents.

We are a Defensive End away from being an elite Defense.. And we have an new offensive minded coaching staff. There are good things ahead, and I'm excited!

Really, we had injuries? So did every NFL team, the difference is being able to make up the difference with the other players. We had some free agents come in and they were a bust. Kampmen is a bust as far as I am concerned, nice vet leadership from the sidelines, but he is a bust, and he is on Smith's watch. Harvey was on Shack's watch, but Smith was there too for that one. We have not had an elite end since Brackens.

Many of the linemen, backers and some of the backfield were there to help the Jags give up almost 350 points last year. The Defense will ONLY get better if our Offense can score more points and keep the D off the field.

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 26, 2012, 09:40:33 AM

QuoteYet, for the past two years, Jags fans still managed to sell out games.

Are you for real? Tarp covered stands and even though we managed to "sell out" the games, the stands were still empty, for TV purposes. Get real, we need to pull off the tarps to really have a sell out. We used to have a full stadium in the beginning, and Green Bay, the other small market stadium does not need tarps to sell out the stadium, for real. We've had enough generations come through our city, to be able to fill the stadium. The Gators are mediocre, FSU is a bit better, the Sharks are a great inspiration. We could do it again, its all a choice!

Tebow had no power in the deal, in his own defense, he said "I want to go wherever is best for the Denver Broncos and the situation I am in". Elway is full of crap, and no player ever, I repeat, EVER has any say so on where they are going to go after only 2 years in the NFL. He had no power, the Broncos sent him to the Jets for a better deal than what the Jags offered. This was NOT Tebow's decision.

I think I can speak for a few others here when I say, "Opinions are like Assholes, but Some Assholes refuse to let Facts get in the Way of their Opinion."

With regards to stadium attendance, I'm done.  The numbers speak for themselves:  NFL Attendance - 2011 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/allAvg)

With regards to Tebow making the decision:  Tebow the Man didn't say Jets or Jags.  Tebow's agent said Jets.  Do the math.  That's for Tebow and Condon to sort through.  We had the better offer in place, so take it for what it's worth.

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 26, 2012, 09:49:39 AM

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 26, 2012, 09:40:33 AM

QuoteYet, for the past two years, Jags fans still managed to sell out games.

Are you for real? Tarp covered stands and even though we managed to "sell out" the games, the stands were still empty, for TV purposes. Get real, we need to pull off the tarps to really have a sell out. We used to have a full stadium in the beginning, and Green Bay, the other small market stadium does not need tarps to sell out the stadium, for real. We've had enough generations come through our city, to be able to fill the stadium. The Gators are mediocre, FSU is a bit better, the Sharks are a great inspiration. We could do it again, its all a choice!

Tebow had no power in the deal, in his own defense, he said "I want to go wherever is best for the Denver Broncos and the situation I am in". Elway is full of crap, and no player ever, I repeat, EVER has any say so on where they are going to go after only 2 years in the NFL. He had no power, the Broncos sent him to the Jets for a better deal than what the Jags offered. This was NOT Tebow's decision.

I think I can speak for a few others here when I say, "Opinions are like Assholes, but Some Assholes refuse to let Facts get in the Way of their Opinion."

With regards to stadium attendance, I'm done.  The numbers speak for themselves:  NFL Attendance - 2011 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/allAvg)

With regards to Tebow making the decision:  Tebow the Man didn't say Jets or Jags.  Tebow's agent said Jets.  Do the math.  That's for Tebow and Condon to sort through.  We had the better offer in place, so take it for what it's worth.

I too considered writing a response to the tarps comment, but I don't have the energy this morning. I will instead take the opportunity to criticize the bullshit league policy that ties the definition of "sell out" to a percentage of the stadium being full, rather than a particular number of tickets sold (or butts in seats).

And by all accounts, our offer was equivalent to or better than the Jets' offer. Something caused him to go the the Jets. It wasn't us or our offer.

My guess would be the willingness to adopt special plays ie the "wildcat" for tebow...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 26, 2012, 10:11:50 AM
My guess would be the willingness to adopt special plays ie the "wildcat" for tebow...

Or the possibility to compete in training camp for the starting job. 

Sweet we have a Defense....too bad you have to build an offense as well.

Now only if he could have found more than one or two adequate OL to keep Gabby upright, about 3 receivers to throw to in those two years we might have a team.

Just like the everyone has an asshole comment, the same applies to those of you who wear the teal colored glasses who have been telling everyone success is just around that next corner for the past 10 years.

Time will tell, and I understand it's hard to acknowledge that Gene Gene has built only a average to below average team, because it causes you to temper your expectations for the coming year, and tempered expectations are not as fun as delusions of Super Bowls. 

Gene has a chance for redemption if he doesn't let the other teams outsmart him on draft day, and gets the most value out of his picks.  You can't argue he has maximized the value of his first three drafts.  You mention some starters he has gotten in the draft, but if you pay attention to what some other teams have done it's not like they didn't either or didn't get better starters.

Actually outside of Monroe (Who was one of the top two OL in that draft)  he overpaid for Gabby and Alualu (Miami wasn't taking Alualu at 12).  If he can get a couple starters at positions of need it will help his case, but I'm not holding my breath.

And you are being a bit naive with the stadium sellouts if you don't think we have work to do in that regard, yes we had no blackouts, but there is a bigger financial picture out there that matters and unfortunately if we don't significantly improve over the next 5 years, some games will move to Orlando/London/Mexico City for financial reasons and not exposure reasons.    The lease is pretty solid and NFL doesn't like to open the books so I don't see an imminent move, but after 5 years or so they may look for loopholes (Stadium deficiencies etc.)  if the Jaguars aren't selling more tickets.

To clarify Tebow on Jax here are quotes from his PC:

Tebow said several times that he is thrilled to be a Jet. Even though the Jaguars were pursuing a trade for him, Tebow said he felt more comfortable with the Jets because of his relationship with some of the Jets coaches.

"I can tell you this, I had a better relationship with the Jets coaches," he said when asked why the Jets were more attractive to him than Jacksonville. "It would have been fun to be home but this is exciting. This is a blessing for me and it is going to be a great opportunity."


Meaning Shahid Khan wanted me but no one else there does....

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 26, 2012, 10:51:03 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 26, 2012, 10:11:50 AM
My guess would be the willingness to adopt special plays ie the "wildcat" for tebow...

Or the possibility to compete in training camp for the starting job.

Shad Khan confirms that "Tim Tebow didn't want to come to Jacksonville".

http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/2012-03-26/story/jaguars-owner-tim-tebow-didnt-want-come-jacksonville

The offer we made was very serious and better than the one the Jets offered; Tebow felt better about the Jets' coaches and thought he'd have a better opportunity to start, so that's where he went.

Quote from: Gators312 on March 26, 2012, 01:10:34 PM
(Miami wasn't taking Alualu at 12)

link?

So we're just making it up that Gene Smith is highly regarded in football circles for his drafting and FA pickups.  That the Jags scouting department is rated in the top 10 by it's peers.  But since the fans (not the real ones mind you  ;) ) know more than football people, let's can him now.

Talent Evaluators (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/15736612/need-help-evaluating-talent-ask-packers-ravens)

Football People (http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/03/colts-president-bill-polian-jaguars-probably-most-improved-team/)

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 26, 2012, 01:34:23 PM
So we're just making it up that Gene Smith is highly regarded in football circles for his drafting and FA pickups.  That the Jags scouting department is rated in the top 10 by it's peers.  But since the fans (not the real ones mind you  ;) ) know more than football people, let's can him now.

Talent Evaluators (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/15736612/need-help-evaluating-talent-ask-packers-ravens)

Football People (http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/03/colts-president-bill-polian-jaguars-probably-most-improved-team/)

Is this evidence really supposed to be convincing?

Yes I am so impressed that out of 5 guys questioned, 2 had Gene in their top 5.   What a solid sample!

2 of 5 guys in the NFL think Gene is doing well....looks about like the percentage you would find on the street here in Jacksonville.

And August of 2010 Bill Polian was impressed with Gene Smith.....Wow what solid evidence once again.  Who is Polian working for right now?

I'm not arguing to fire him today, I'm more arguing with you teal kool aid drinkers who think he is just the bees knees.

He has had control of personnel since 2008, and the results are mediocre.

Quote from: Gators312 on March 26, 2012, 01:56:08 PM

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 26, 2012, 01:34:23 PM
So we're just making it up that Gene Smith is highly regarded in football circles for his drafting and FA pickups.  That the Jags scouting department is rated in the top 10 by it's peers.  But since the fans (not the real ones mind you  ;) ) know more than football people, let's can him now.

Talent Evaluators (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/15736612/need-help-evaluating-talent-ask-packers-ravens)

Football People (http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/03/colts-president-bill-polian-jaguars-probably-most-improved-team/)

Is this evidence really supposed to be convincing?

Yes I am so impressed that out of 5 guys questioned, 2 had Gene in their top 5.   What a solid sample!

2 of 5 guys in the NFL think Gene is doing well....looks about like the percentage you would find on the street here in Jacksonville.

And August of 2010 Bill Polian was impressed with Gene Smith.....Wow what solid evidence once again.  Who is Polian working for right now?

I'm not arguing to fire him today, I'm more arguing with you teal kool aid drinkers who think he is just the bees knees.

He has had control of personnel since 2008, and the results are mediocre.

In 2008...a year after Shack Harris completly the team and we had to gut the roster from the bottm up and start over. Gene Smith had a tall order when he was hired. Our roster was like N.O. after hurriance Katrina. To completly build an ENTIRE football. Lets give you that task and see how well you fair.

Quote from: copperfiend on March 26, 2012, 01:28:58 PM

Quote from: Gators312 on March 26, 2012, 01:10:34 PM
(Miami wasn't taking Alualu at 12)

link?

Can you link showing anyone was interested in Alualu that high?

Wacca (I think) said Alualu would have gone 12 to Miami....I have seen no evidence supporting it, and during the draft everyone on the talking panels were surprised to see him go that high.

Miami wanted more picks that year and were looking to trade out of 12 for more picks, as they expected to get a DL for better value in the lower end of Round 1.

Odrick was injured for the season in Game 1 of his rookie year, and then posted 6.0 sacks last year.

Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 26, 2012, 02:04:36 PM

Quote from: Gators312 on March 26, 2012, 01:56:08 PM

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 26, 2012, 01:34:23 PM
So we're just making it up that Gene Smith is highly regarded in football circles for his drafting and FA pickups.  That the Jags scouting department is rated in the top 10 by it's peers.  But since the fans (not the real ones mind you  ;) ) know more than football people, let's can him now.

Talent Evaluators (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/15736612/need-help-evaluating-talent-ask-packers-ravens)

Football People (http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/03/colts-president-bill-polian-jaguars-probably-most-improved-team/)

Is this evidence really supposed to be convincing?

Yes I am so impressed that out of 5 guys questioned, 2 had Gene in their top 5.   What a solid sample!

2 of 5 guys in the NFL think Gene is doing well....looks about like the percentage you would find on the street here in Jacksonville.

And August of 2010 Bill Polian was impressed with Gene Smith.....Wow what solid evidence once again.  Who is Polian working for right now?

I'm not arguing to fire him today, I'm more arguing with you teal kool aid drinkers who think he is just the bees knees.

He has had control of personnel since 2008, and the results are mediocre.

In 2008...a year after Shack Harris completly the team and we had to gut the roster from the bottm up and start over. Gene Smith had a tall order when he was hired. Our roster was like N.O. after hurriance Katrina. To completly build an ENTIRE football. Lets give you that task and see how well you fair.

So did you guys support Shack Harris up to the end?  Was he a genius up until his firing?  Detroit has done well since he came aboard, No?  Shack was in charge of getting MJD?  Within 3 years on the job he had a team with a 12-4 record and the following year got decimated with injuries or probably would have another winning season.  It's nice to blame the last guy for your shortcomings.... Not saying he didn't deserve to lose his job, but the same arguments you are making for Gene could have been made for Shack.  And Gene got to make the decisions like Jerry Porter, Derrick Harvey, and Quentin Groves.

Since you bring up what I would have done.....I would have built both sides of the line the best I could instead of just building one and not trotted a Rookie QB out --hell any QB out -- to face the kind of beat downs the OL allowed.

Look we should just end this because we aren't getting anywhere.  You won't be convinced that the Jaguars could have done better, and I won't be convinced they are as good as you say they are.  So lets agree to disagree.

The one thing we all can agree on is we want the Jaguars to win.   Hopefully that is sooner rather than later.

Quote from: Gators312 on March 26, 2012, 02:24:06 PM
And Gene got to make the decisions like Jerry Porter, Derrick Harvey, and Quentin Groves.

Based on what? Harris still had final say when those moves were made.

Quote from: copperfiend on March 26, 2012, 02:38:34 PM

Quote from: Gators312 on March 26, 2012, 02:24:06 PM
And Gene got to make the decisions like Jerry Porter, Derrick Harvey, and Quentin Groves.

Based on what? Harris still had final say when those moves were made.

Agreed. That was all Shack Harris. Gene had nothing to do with those.

Quote from: Gators312 on March 26, 2012, 02:05:41 PM
Can you link showing anyone was interested in Alualu that high?

Wacca (I think) said Alualu would have gone 12 to Miami....I have seen no evidence supporting it, and during the draft everyone on the talking panels were surprised to see him go that high.

Miami wanted more picks that year and were looking to trade out of 12 for more picks, as they expected to get a DL for better value in the lower end of Round 1.

Odrick was injured for the season in Game 1 of his rookie year, and then posted 6.0 sacks last year.

Vic Ketchman wrote right after the draft in 2010, that the Dolphins were in pursuit of Alualu. The Jaguars did not feel they could trade down and still get him.

Quote from: Gators312 on March 26, 2012, 01:56:08 PM
Is this evidence really supposed to be convincing?

Nothing is more convincing than the scoreboard.  That we agree upon.  These just happened to be 2 articles that I've read somewhat recently to defend my position. 

Are there any articles that state the contrary?  (Please don't go Bleacher Report & SB Nation)

QuoteAnd August of 2010 Bill Polian was impressed with Gene Smith.....Wow what solid evidence once again.  Who is Polian working for right now?

Really?  The same Bill Polian that has been lauded for his drafting.  The colts went full blown Re-Do and canned him.  How long did it take for him to find another job?

QuoteI'm not arguing to fire him today, I'm more arguing with you teal kool aid drinkers who think he is just the bees knees.

He has had control of personnel since 2008, and the results are mediocre.

Bees Knees?  Puttin' on the Ritz didn't want any part of that?  Still doin' tha Charleston?   ;D

I base my opinion off of the hand he's been dealt.  Do you remember any of our draft picks pre-Gene?  They weren't exactly top of the class.  I've stated ad nauseum that he's building the foundation, and usually they aren't very pretty, but when done correctly, they're extremely stable and you can build really flashy house on top of them - but it takes time.  Apparently more time than most are willing to concede.

The results in the W/L column are mediocre, I'm not disagreeing with you about that, but I see improvement of the talent level on the field, which is a solid indicator that will eventually lead to more Ws than Ls.

Wasn't Gene on Shack Harris's scout team? Gene wasn't just hired out of the blue. He was working in the background before. He had his part in some of those awful draft choices by being a scout and telling Shack who we should and should not draft.

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 26, 2012, 09:40:33 AM
Are you for real? Tarp covered stands and even though we managed to "sell out" the games, the stands were still empty, for TV purposes. Get real, we need to pull off the tarps to really have a sell out.

You sound like Mike Florio or someone who doesn't know crap about Jax. This fairytale concerning a long sustained 73K people at Everbank anytime soon is asinine. Hypothetically, even if yalls' mancrush was here, and he sold out 73K, how long would you think that would last, forever? By your logic, a Soldier Field crowd wouldn't be enough. An untarped Everbank Field is way to big for this market, and you know it. The biggest mistake this city did was let that dumb 'cocktail party' dictate the size of that stadium; Far as I'm concerning if 70K(including temporary bleacher seating) wasn't enough at Everbank for the Fla/Ga game, then let they asses go back to Athens, and G-ville to play games; It's not much of a decision, A NFL team vs one college game!

QuoteYou sound like Mike Florio or someone who doesn't know crap about Jax. This fairytale concerning a long sustained 73K people at Everbank anytime soon is asinine. Hypothetically, even if yalls' mancrush was here, and he sold out 73K, how long would you think that would last, forever? By your logic, a Soldier Field crowd wouldn't be enough. An untarped Everbank Field is way to big for this market, and you know it. The biggest mistake this city did was let that dumb 'cocktail party' dictate the size of that stadium; Far as I'm concerning if 70K(including temporary bleacher seating) wasn't enough at Everbank for the Fla/Ga game, then let they asses go back to Athens, and G-ville to play games; It's not much of a decision, A NFL team vs one college game!

The NFL is a business, plain and simple. TT could have raised the profile of the team and the city, as he did in Denver. He would have been the greatest character player since Boselli, period. So think beyond football and think of our great city.

An untarped Everbank is possible, we did it in the late 90s, we can do it again, it takes winning.

Gene Smith could not find a winning team with both his hands. His tenure is tied to that of Del Rio, and for that, he should have been fired along with JDR. Gene Smith will be forever rebuilding in his brain and for that reason alone, he will not take us to the playoffs.

QuoteWasn't Gene on Shack Harris's scout team? Gene wasn't just hired out of the blue. He was working in the background before. He had his part in some of those awful draft choices by being a scout and telling Shack who we should and should not draft.

+1

Gene Smith reaks of the old, I say clean house and start over. Too late for this year, but there is NEXT YEAR, but then we've been saying that for so long, its not cliche anymore, its just part of who the Jags have become.

MTrain - I can't tell for sure whether they are actual or tickets sold.  Either way, should we really be doing better than Chicago?

This article by Frennette (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400617/gene-frenette/2011-11-03/gene-frenette-jags-gm-gene-smith-deserves-more-time-get), comparing us to the Saints and Packers, is the hope of all of us teal-glasses wearing fans.  The similarities are enough to merit consideration that it can happen here.  The other thing everyone keeps conveniently forgetting is that we have a new coach in place.  I don't know how you can quantify the coaching over the talent without taking all as a whole, so whatever you have thought of Gene and his picks, it doesn't apply anymore.  There's (long overdue) new blood on the sidelines. 

Whoever asked the Shack Harris question.  After his 3rd 1st round bust in Matt Jones, no, I wasn't on his side.  You say it's convenient to blame the last guy, but he was the reason that we're starting from scratch, so let's call a spade a spade. 

QuoteOn February 12, 2009, the Detroit Lions officially named Harris as Senior Personnel Executive. Lions General Manager Martin Mayhew has a long history with Harris, and indicated he was the only individual who was offered the job. Harris will assist in all areas of player personnel in an advisory role.[4]

Doesn't sound like a glowing recommendation to me.  Just a guy helping a guy out.  If he had been 'advising' instead of 'decision making' her, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 26, 2012, 03:22:04 PM
An untarped Everbank is possible, we did it in the late 90s, we can do it again, it takes winning.

Actually the late 90's is when attendance started to fall. In 1999, capacity was in the 80% range.

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 26, 2012, 03:22:04 PM
Gene Smith could not find a winning team with both his hands. His tenure is tied to that of Del Rio, and for that, he should have been fired along with JDR. Gene Smith will be forever rebuilding in his brain and for that reason alone, he will not take us to the playoffs.

He inherited Del Rio in 2009. He is in no way tied to him.

Quote from: Dapperdan on March 26, 2012, 03:01:02 PM
Wasn't Gene on Shack Harris's scout team? Gene wasn't just hired out of the blue. He was working in the background before. He had his part in some of those awful draft choices by being a scout and telling Shack who we should and should not draft.

He has been a scout for the team since the beginning. He was in the scouting department when Shack was hired and put in charge. Part of his job was suggesting who the team should draft. But none of us know who he suggested. Wayne Weaver did. Based on that, why would Weaver have promoted Smith if he suggesting crap players?

QuoteHe inherited Del Rio in 2009. He is in no way tied to him.

Yes he is! After Shack Harris was fired, why else would he have been promoted had he not been able to do the work, per Weaver? He is as tied to the legacy players as anyone at the Jags. Congrats to him for working his way up the organization, but he should have left with Coughlin if he wanted to learn about how to win a Super Bowl.

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 26, 2012, 03:22:04 PM
The NFL is a business, plain and simple. TT could have raised the profile of the team and the city, as he did in Denver. He would have been the greatest character player since Boselli, period. So think beyond football and think of our great city.

An untarped Everbank is possible, we did it in the late 90s, we can do it again, it takes winning.

I see that you played a lil' 'switcheroo' M-train; Completely wiping out your original thoughts by editing, I'm on to you. LOL

The 1995 Jags crowd was the novelty of having a new NFL team/ wine & cheese/  fringe fan/ bandwagon/ we better win all of our games crowd. It's very UNREALISTIC to think from 95 to the present will be filled with 73,000 fans in a small market like Jacksonville. Actually, if you consider per capita  concerning the market size, and the population, we already are doing pretty damn good, when you take it into consideration. Why do you think BAL, IND, ARI etc, etc etc aren't 70-80K seats? hmmm, I guess that a Michigan Stadium in Jax would automatically bring in 109K, consistently throughout forever, but don't forget, you hafta bring in Timmy boy first to start that remarkable everlasting renaissance.  ::)

(gasp) there is so much tension in this room! ------> (duvaldude exits the forum)

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 26, 2012, 03:49:09 PM

QuoteHe inherited Del Rio in 2009. He is in no way tied to him.

Yes he is! After Shack Harris was fired, why else would he have been promoted had he not been able to do the work, per Weaver? He is as tied to the legacy players as anyone at the Jags. Congrats to him for working his way up the organization, but he should have left with Coughlin if he wanted to learn about how to win a Super Bowl.

Legacy players? What are you talking about?

Quote from: I-10east on March 26, 2012, 03:53:43 PM

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 26, 2012, 03:22:04 PM
The NFL is a business, plain and simple. TT could have raised the profile of the team and the city, as he did in Denver. He would have been the greatest character player since Boselli, period. So think beyond football and think of our great city.

An untarped Everbank is possible, we did it in the late 90s, we can do it again, it takes winning.

I see that you played a lil' 'switcheroo' M-train; Completely wiping out your original thoughts by editing, I'm on to you. LOL

The 1995 Jags crowd was the novelty of having a new NFL team/ wine & cheese/  fringe fan/ bandwagon/ we better win all of our games crowd. It's very UNREALISTIC to think from 95 to the present will be filled with 73,000 fans in a small market like Jacksonville. Actually, if you consider per capita  concerning the market size, and the population, we already are doing pretty damn good, when you take it into consideration. Why do you think BAL, IND, ARI etc, etc etc aren't 70-80K seats? hmmm, I guess that a Michigan Stadium in Jax would automatically bring in 109K, consistently throughout forever, but don't forget, you hafta bring in Timmy boy first to start that remarkable everlasting renaissance.  ::)

After Khans statement the cat is now out the bag that Timmy didnt want to come here. Khan has even stated that if he would have came here and didnt want to be here, it would have been bad for the franchise and city. So I dont know why anyone is still talking about what TT could have done for Jax. We gave the better offer, he choose to go elsewhere. He wanted to start, we said he would have to compete with our two other QB's on the roster. And Im sorry to be frank, I dont think anyone should kiss the ass of a terriable QB that just so happens to be a nice person with media appeal. We gave the best offer, he didnt want it. Screw him. (yes I said it Tebow fans)

^^^+1

Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 26, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
(gasp) there is so much tension in this room! ------> (duvaldude exits the forum)

Ha!  Duvaldude makes walking away noises with his feet, slams the door and hides behind the curtains so he can still listen in.   ;D

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 26, 2012, 04:03:09 PM

Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 26, 2012, 03:54:11 PM
(gasp) there is so much tension in this room! ------> (duvaldude exits the forum)

Ha!  Duvaldude makes walking away noises with his feet, slams the door and hides behind the curtains so he can still listen in.   ;D

Shhhh.. Im still hiding.

Gene Smith seems to be getting a better "vote of confidence" than I thought he would.

Funny part of The Tebow deal is Elway was drafted by the Colts, and refused to play for them.

It was the only thing I liked about Elway.

Manning came from the Colts.

I was here in Jacksonville for "Colt Fever".

Elway could have royally screwed Tebow by trading him to the Colts. 

Now there is 2 things I like about Elway.

Quote from: British Shoe Company on March 26, 2012, 07:01:51 PM
Funny part of The Tebow deal is Elway was drafted by the Colts, and refused to play for them.

It was the only thing I liked about Elway.

wow...did you know he told Baltimore he didn't want to play in the cold...then went to Denver....that's what made me think Elway was a spoiled little brat (which still seems to be true)!

I don't know about you guys but I'm gonna be pretty pizzed if they snub John Brantley like they did Tebow.

Quote from: tufsu1 on March 26, 2012, 08:40:38 PM

Quote from: British Shoe Company on March 26, 2012, 07:01:51 PM
Funny part of The Tebow deal is Elway was drafted by the Colts, and refused to play for them.

It was the only thing I liked about Elway.

wow...did you know he told Baltimore he didn't want to play in the cold...then went to Denver....that's what made me think Elway was a spoiled little brat (which still seems to be true)!

Only something a bitter Colts Ravens fan would say.   :D

Quote from: buckethead on March 27, 2012, 09:38:55 AM
I don't know about you guys but I'm gonna be pretty pizzed if they snub John Brantley like they did Tebow.

Signing JB would be the ultimate middle finger to Gator fans everywhere....

Good article in the Florida Times Union today on Gene Smith, by Gene Frenette.

Quote from: I-10east on March 24, 2012, 08:28:52 PM
I say keep him, atleast until the rest of his contract. Remember, this is the guy who revamped the D. Many Gator fans will continue to hold 'Not drafting the Messiah' against Gene no matter what; He could have drafted a couple of Pro Bowl type players, and not draft Tebow, and the legions of the sheep will still have the negative vibe towards Gene. SMH.

Are you still positive?

Wow, way to rub salt in the wound. To be honest, I dunno what to think of Gene right now. Does Gene not drafting Tebow equal to drafting a punter in the third round? No, one is a highly questionable decision from the standpoint of rational Jags fans. The skilled positions should be addressed with in the draft esp in the early rounds. Gene really has disappointed me with that 3rd round pick. You know that I to tell it like I see it; I'm not the type that is in denial about this situation. All I can do is sit back, and see how things are gonna play out. Hopefully Blackmon will be a top flight WR, Branch will be a force on the opposing QB, and Anger better punt his ass off.   

After trading up for Justin Blackmon in the first round, I had a really bad feeling that the universe was going to right itself with at least one boneheaded Gene Smith pick in the second and third rounds. I know Smith just loves to get cute with his picks, but seriously, a punter in the THIRD ROUND. Somebody might have a better memory than me on this, but in my 15 or so years following the draft, this is the first time I have ever seen a punter drafted in the first three rounds. This should be a huge red flag for Khan that this guy really has no clue what is doing, at least when it comes to the draft. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but man, doesn't speak too highly for the Jags confidence in Gabbert if they are using a third round pick on a PUNTER. A PUNTER!

I'm not too worried about it. We had great first and second round picks. The punter in the third round is out there, but Gene has otherwise been great - and extremely underrated - in the draft. I can even sort of follow the rationale; we need a punter, we have no fourth round, and he'd be gone by our turn in the fifth. I'm not going to get too worked up about a third round pick that will probably give us a good player.

Why can't Gene Smith simply do his job without the constant chatter that he "doesn't know what he's doing?"  Anyone outside of the organization is completely incapable of making an informed opinion on this matter. None of us...not a single one of us...knows all the circumstances behind any decision made by Gene, or any other GM/Coach/owner.  Our opinions are all based on superficial knowledge and piecemeal information, yet we wanna be the ones deciding who gets to keep their job and who doesn't?  How is that not considered completely absurd?

How about we let Shad Khan--the only man whose opinion counts on this matter--be the one to make that decision? 

The punter had a draft party scheduled with family and friends......but it is scheduled today, when he should have been picked

^^^Exactly, he obviously was overdrafted. I wonder who is the angriest between Bryan Angry, and the Colts Pat Angerer; I guess I have to give that edge to the LB. It's gonna be ugly over the local airwaves on Monday.

I'm pretty surprised that so many Gene fans on MJ are so tolerant of Gene's third round decision. I mean even the DIEHARD Gene fans are like WTF!!! PFT have some diehard Gene backers on PFT's Jaguar board that took up for him no matter what, and now even they are second guessing him, like really? We took up for you, and now you do this? We are honestly the NFL draft pick laughingstock right now; Maybe that will change if we go 10-6 this year and make the playoffs, then Gene will of course look like a GENEius, hopefully that will be the case. 

Quote from: I-10east on April 28, 2012, 03:24:34 PM
I'm pretty surprised that so many Gene fans on MJ are so tolerant of Gene's third round decision. I mean even the DIEHARD Gene fans are like WTF!!! PFT have some diehard Gene backers on PFT's Jaguar board that took up for him no matter what, and now even they are second guessing him, like really? We took up for you, and now you do this? We are honestly the NFL draft pick laughingstock right now; Maybe that will change if we go 10-6 this year and make the playoffs, then Gene will of course look like a GENEius, hopefully that will be the case.

I really think people are overacting on this. Yes we took a punter in a early round and probably should have waited but come on. Other than that, I think we wasted a pick on a linebacker and that was not a dying need right now but Im not having a cow over it. Was it really THAT bad or are we being nick picky because we wanted him to do something different? Even if it was another GM we would be doing the same thing. If he did what the fans agrees with he gets praised and if he doesnt well say he needs to be fired. In the end our needs were addressed period. What else will we find to complain about?

PS Im not defending nor am I praising Gene, but its sad how we got a two top needs filled with great players but now we throwing him under the bus because we didnt "approve " of his third round selection. Now all of a sudden the sky is falling.

^^^Fair enough. As I said on the other thread, I'm still with all of yall in the 'IGWT' crew. It's a gradual process for me to totally accept a punter in the 3rd round, but I'm over it as long as Anger does the pick justice by punting well which I'm sure that he will do. It's like a tug of war with this poll, glad to see the 'keep hims' back in the race :)

I would love for EVERYONE to take a chill pill or two, and let this thing pan out.

-Josh

Right now Im not letting anything take away my excitement. New owner, new coaching staff, new players, new offense playbook, etc. Its kind of strange that we are in the same mindset we were when WW and JDR was here. I dont know if were just so badly abused that we now need therapy (lol), but thiis is a new era. We have to give it a chance. We have the opportuinity now to completey start over. In my book, Khan and the coaching staff have a clean slate with me. I want to see everything unfold. Im amped and ready.

I-10,

Just to let you know, I just watched the NFL Draft video, and they gave Jacksonville a B and said that we were actually smart for getting the best punter with our #3 pick. The sky isnt falling after all! LMAO ROFL

How many RB's were there in the third round? They can't expect MJD to do all the running, can they? Anger probably would've been there in the fifth round. They could've taken a RB to help him out a bit. Hope they do some more in free agency.

^^^Hopefully Rashad Jennings can get back healthy. I haven't heard much about him since his injury.

Quote from: duvaldude08 on April 28, 2012, 10:20:33 PM

Quote from: I-10east on April 28, 2012, 03:24:34 PM
I'm pretty surprised that so many Gene fans on MJ are so tolerant of Gene's third round decision. I mean even the DIEHARD Gene fans are like WTF!!! PFT have some diehard Gene backers on PFT's Jaguar board that took up for him no matter what, and now even they are second guessing him, like really? We took up for you, and now you do this? We are honestly the NFL draft pick laughingstock right now; Maybe that will change if we go 10-6 this year and make the playoffs, then Gene will of course look like a GENEius, hopefully that will be the case.

I really think people are overacting on this. Yes we took a punter in a early round and probably should have waited but come on. Other than that, I think we wasted a pick on a linebacker and that was not a dying need right now but Im not having a cow over it. Was it really THAT bad or are we being nick picky because we wanted him to do something different? Even if it was another GM we would be doing the same thing. If he did what the fans agrees with he gets praised and if he doesnt well say he needs to be fired. In the end our needs were addressed period. What else will we find to complain about?

PS Im not defending nor am I praising Gene, but its sad how we got a two top needs filled with great players but now we throwing him under the bus because we didnt "approve " of his third round selection. Now all of a sudden the sky is falling.

The sky is so low.

It has to look up to see down.

Jacksonville does not need, or want  to be known as the "Cleveland of the South"

Quotebut its sad how we got a two top needs filled with great players but now we throwing him under the bus because we didnt "approve " of his third round selection. Now all of a sudden the sky is falling.

Whatever we think of Smith, the Jags let Harris go yesterday along with the backup they signed at the end of the season, so its a moot point. I agree with others who say RB, and I would have added a lineman, because we know they do not hold up during the season. So with our picks in this draft what did we draft? 1 Offensive player and 5 defensive, again, this all on Smith and this is what he has done in past drafts, I am settling in for more of the same as last year, as even with a new owner and new coach, there are still elements that Khan has to clean out before we can move on in a new direction.

A great link to our 3rd round pick:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/57873/a-punter-jaguars-reached-in-third-round (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/57873/a-punter-jaguars-reached-in-third-round)

Kiper rates the Jags with the worst draft in the AFC South.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth)

Smith better hope his players win for him, otherwise he'll be elsewhere next year.

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 29, 2012, 10:57:55 AM
Kiper rates the Jags with the worst draft in the AFC South.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth)

Smith better hope his players win for him, otherwise he'll be elsewhere next year.

Because Kiper signs Gene's checks?   ::)

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on April 29, 2012, 11:12:04 AM

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 29, 2012, 10:57:55 AM
Kiper rates the Jags with the worst draft in the AFC South.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth)

Smith better hope his players win for him, otherwise he'll be elsewhere next year.

Because Kiper signs Gene's checks?   ::)

;D

FYI. The Mike Harris pick was Mularkeys idea it seems. The guy used to be a QB and he wants possibly to use him in wild cat schemes that they used in Pittsburgh when he was there. Of course Gene has the final say, but I will continue to say EVERYONE has input on these decisions. Gene just takes the brunt of it from the fans.

http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2012-04-28/story/jaguars-wrap-draft-defensive-upbeat

I can't believe we went through ANOTHER draft and still no Tebow.

This is an outrage.

Quote from: buckethead on April 29, 2012, 03:29:51 PM
I can't believe we went through ANOTHER draft and still no Tebow.

This is an outrage.

Then I guess you're devastated that we didn't resign Brunell, too.   ;)

Do we need to keep you on suicide watch?

We still have a shot at Brunell.

Quote from: buckethead on April 29, 2012, 07:45:09 PM
We still have a shot at Brunell.

I love Brunell but he has NOTHING left in the tank. His career was pretty much toast after he left Jacksonville. If anything, he would be a third QB  on the roster just to mentor the other two QB's, then retire as a Jaguar.

Quote from: buckethead on April 29, 2012, 03:29:51 PM
I can't believe we went through ANOTHER draft and still no Tebow.

This is an outrage.

Tebow had the choice to become a Jaguar. Instead, he became a Jet. Whether GS or MM wanted him or not, he had the choice. Khan was pushing for him. With that being said, he would've pushed for him to play on the field. Remember, Khan now holds the fate for Gene and Mularkey.

QuoteBecause Kiper signs Gene's checks?

Nope, the guy with the large stache does, and he will hear about selecting a PUNTER in the 3rd round from the other owners, rookie mistake. I don't believe he will allow his future GM to make the same laughable mistake in future years.

Its nice to be the punchline of national jokes again.

This 3rd round pick was completely  boneheaded. The best punter in all of college last year was Shawn Powell, who played a whopping 150 miles away in Tallahassee. Statistically speaking he blew all the other punters away, but because he only had 49 punts last year he was not iin contention for the Lou Groza Award (best punter in college).
If you look at his stats it was not even close: highest yards per punt (49), highest net yards per  punt (42), 63% of his kicks not returned, 21 inside the 20 yd line and 12 inside the 10. He was clutch all year and you would think our GM would have noticed.

In addition he was the holder on all the placekicking attempts (field goals and PAT, another position of need on our team.)

We would have been better off trading the pick for SF punter Andy Lee, the ONLY PUNTER IN THE NFL TO AVERAGE NET PUNTING YARDS OVER 41 TDS PER KICK last year. 

However, Powell was picked up late by Buffalo so we will be able to compare these two kickers at the end of next season.

Also, defensive/offensive starter play 40-60 plays per game, so getting a starter in the 3rd round on offense or defense probably would have led to more productivity than getting a punter, who plays 5-6 plays per game.

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 29, 2012, 10:57:55 AM
Kiper rates the Jags with the worst draft in the AFC South.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth)

Smith better hope his players win for him, otherwise he'll be elsewhere next year.

And Mike Lombardi from NFL Network gave it a B and he liked the Anger pick. Mike Mayock said he has no problem taking a punter in the third round.

Quote from: copperfiend on April 30, 2012, 09:39:01 AM

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 29, 2012, 10:57:55 AM
Kiper rates the Jags with the worst draft in the AFC South.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth)

Smith better hope his players win for him, otherwise he'll be elsewhere next year.

And Mike Lombardi from NFL Network gave it a B and he liked the Anger pick. Mike Mayock said he has no problem taking a punter in the third round.

Who's Mike Lombardi?   :D

Nice

So who is really evaluating the talent of our free agents? Is it Gene or is it Mularkey or the person dressed in the mascot outfit?

QuoteJACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) â€" The Jacksonville Jaguars have released cornerback Drew Coleman after one season, parting ways with a player they felt was one-dimensional.

Coleman played in all 16 games last season and saw action in nearly 50 percent of the defensive snaps as a nickel cornerback. But with Rashean Mathis and Will Middleton returning from injuries and Aaron Ross signing as a free agent, the team no longer saw a role for Coleman. He played sparingly on special teams, and the Jaguars didn't think he could line up anywhere except the slot.

Coleman also was due to make a little more than $1.5 million in 2012.

Coleman spent the previous five seasons with the New York Jets. He signed a three-year deal worth up to $7.4 million with the Jaguars last July.

Quote from: mtraininjax on May 03, 2012, 03:00:01 PM
So who is really evaluating the talent of our free agents? Is it Gene or is it Mularkey or the person dressed in the mascot outfit?

Did you have a point?  He became expendable when we signed Ross and Harrris.  He was a signed as a starter, but ended up only playing a nickel corner, ie situational player, that was making starter pay.  We don't have to pay him $3.1M of the $7.4M we signed him for. 

What don't you understand?

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on May 03, 2012, 03:16:48 PM

Quote from: mtraininjax on May 03, 2012, 03:00:01 PM
So who is really evaluating the talent of our free agents? Is it Gene or is it Mularkey or the person dressed in the mascot outfit?

Did you have a point?  He became expendable when we signed Ross and Harrris.  He was a signed as a starter, but ended up only playing a nickel corner, ie situational player, that was making starter pay.  We don't have to pay him $3.1M of the $7.4M we signed him for. 

What don't you understand?

I agree. I was caught off gaurd for a moment, but when I really looked at it, it made sense.

You mean Harris, the rookie who did not even start at FSU? That Harris? Even the Jaguars.com site states:

Quotes expected to compete for a backup role as a rookie, and to make an immediate impact on special teams.

Khan has already said money is not an issue. So it comes down to talent, did we draft enough and get enough new Free Agents to let go of a guy who played all 16 games last year for us and who helped the Jags with their #6 D. Something does not add up here. Something else is at play here. You don't can a UFA who played all the games last year in favor of a rookie who will be a backup, we did not draft any other CBs. Ross is battling Mathis, I thought as reported by the local media. Can Mathis stay healthy as he gets older, is the real question, so again, something not adding up here, not even into training camp and he gets canned.

Quote from: mtraininjax on May 03, 2012, 03:29:33 PM
You mean Harris, the rookie who did not even start at FSU? That Harris? Even the Jaguars.com site states:

Quotes expected to compete for a backup role as a rookie, and to make an immediate impact on special teams.

Khan has already said money is not an issue. So it comes down to talent, did we draft enough and get enough new Free Agents to let go of a guy who played all 16 games last year for us and who helped the Jags with their #6 D. Something does not add up here. Something else is at play here. You don't can a UFA who played all the games last year in favor of a rookie who will be a backup, we did not draft any other CBs. Ross is battling Mathis, I thought as reported by the local media. Can Mathis stay healthy as he gets older, is the real question, so again, something not adding up here, not even into training camp and he gets canned.

I'll help you make some sense of it:

We have 12 CBs on our roster.  Assuming Rashean is healthy, we start Mathis & Cox.  Behind them we have Yobouty, Ross, Middleton and Morgan - 2 guys I've never heard of Rutland and Heath and 5 rookies, including Harris.

We gathered all of this depth when we sent 30+ guys to IR last year.  Obviously, Coleman, was the odd man out.  I'm sure more will be cut, but without looking at each contract, I would imagine that his $1.6M salary + competition were pretty fair reasons for letting him go.

QuoteWe have 12 CBs on our roster.

Interestingly enough, on the jaguars.com website, we have 7 Offensive Tackles (where I put Britton, even though the site lists him as only an Offensive Lineman), 4 Offensive Guards (2 of which can play Center as well), and 3 Centers. The starters have some years under them, Britton and Monroe have 4 years, Uche with 6, Meester with 13, most of the others are rookies or with 1 or 2 years.

This will be our Achilles heel this year, if we have injuries.

Our 1st round pick drank to that!

Quote from: Gators312 on March 25, 2012, 12:54:27 PM
Gene Smith will never build a team better than 9-7. 

He has wasted picks already trying to be the smartest guy in the room.  Taking several small school guys who haven't panned out, thinking he knows more than 31 other organizations.  He has taken the most small school guys of any GM in the NFL during his tenure.   Where has that gotten us?

I don't want to "hate" on the Jaguars as they are our home team, I just don't think Gene Smith can take us where we want to go.

I'm glad he hasn't done a TERRIBLE job so far, but if that's all we can get excited about means we have a long way to go. 

Please name me someone that the Jaguars drafted that was a "home run" under Gene?  How about Free Agents?

 

What a surprise, BSC drugged this thread from the woodwork again. No matter what, Gene will never win over the skeptics anyway; If he didn't get Blackmon on draft day, many would be crying about Gene being too conservative, because he needs to take a chance on marquee draft picks that maybe rough around the edges, so yall can't have it both ways.

Wow, so Gene Smith is responsible for a draftee getting a DUI? Didn't realize he was authorized to undertake police stops in the state of Oklahoma.

Quote from: I-10east on June 04, 2012, 01:20:40 PM
What a surprise, BSC drugged this thread from the woodwork again. No matter what, Gene will never win over the skeptics anyway; If he didn't get Blackmon on draft day, many would be crying about Gene being too conservative, because he needs to take a chance on marquee draft picks that maybe rough around the edges, so yall can't have it both ways.

2009-2011:

Gene Smith drafts too many no-name small school choir boys.

2012:

Gene Smith drafts too many big-name, big school guys with character issues.

Let's just hope Blackmon doesn'y turn into a R. Jay Soward during Mularkey's first year. The Head Coach is already throwing him under a bus by asking him to ask questions about plays he is unsure of, BEFORE the play is run.

Quote from: mtraininjax on June 04, 2012, 02:55:55 PM
Let's just hope Blackmon doesn'y turn into a R. Jay Soward during Mularkey's first year. The Head Coach is already throwing him under a bus by asking him to ask questions about plays he is unsure of, BEFORE the play is run.

How is that throwing him under the bus? That is making sure that he understands everything. A good teacher always knows when a student is lost, without them having to say anything. So why let him go out and do it then wrong, instead making sure he knows the right way? I always remember my second grade teacher. I always hated to ask questions because I didnt want to feel dumb. So I was just do my owrk very slowly and sometimes stare at the paper when I didnt understand something. She would always walk up and ask " Do you need some help?" As an adult I have gotten better but I still hate asking questions. I dont think mularkey is doing anything wrong.

Quote from: copperfiend on June 04, 2012, 01:28:35 PM

Quote from: I-10east on June 04, 2012, 01:20:40 PM
What a surprise, BSC drugged this thread from the woodwork again. No matter what, Gene will never win over the skeptics anyway; If he didn't get Blackmon on draft day, many would be crying about Gene being too conservative, because he needs to take a chance on marquee draft picks that maybe rough around the edges, so yall can't have it both ways.

2009-2011:

Gene Smith drafts too many no-name small school choir boys.

2012:

Gene Smith drafts too many big-name, big school guys with character issues.

The entire substance of BSC's complaint about Gene Smith is the non-acquisition of Tebow. 

QuoteHow is that throwing him under the bus? That is making sure that he understands everything. A good teacher always knows when a student is lost, without them having to say anything. So why let him go out and do it then wrong, instead making sure he knows the right way?

For one,  I never had a high school or college coach use the Television or local media to question if I understood the playbook. A good coach would pull the player aside and discuss this with them, rather than ambush them through the media.

Quote from: mtraininjax on June 05, 2012, 11:48:35 AM

QuoteHow is that throwing him under the bus? That is making sure that he understands everything. A good teacher always knows when a student is lost, without them having to say anything. So why let him go out and do it then wrong, instead making sure he knows the right way?

For one,  I never had a high school or college coach use the Television or local media to question if I understood the playbook. A good coach would pull the player aside and discuss this with them, rather than ambush them through the media.

That's hardly what I would consider 'ambushing though the media'.  It was a statement from an interview with Oehsner, the in-house reporter that circulated through the local paper and PFT / Bleacher Report.  Out of those 3, which do you consider actual mainstream outlets?  None is my answer, too.

I was even said in the interview that he has told Blackmon to his face during practices to ask the question if you're unsure rather than run the play badly - he just followed up the practice with a media interview. 

Put the pitchforks down.

QuoteOut of those 3, which do you consider actual mainstream outlets?  None is my answer, too.

These days though, anyone with a smartphone can post anything about anyone doing anything. local outlets feed national outlets, people looking for an issue, and now with the DUI, we have more of an issue. Every little thing can be blown out of proportion, but as a coach, you suck it up and deal with it in the locker room or on the field, not in the media.

Quote from: mtraininjax on June 05, 2012, 03:50:04 PM
...but as a coach, you suck it up and deal with it in the locker room or on the field, not in the media.

JO:  Coach M, can I ask a few questions?

MM:  Sure John, fire away.

JO:  Coach, what can you tell us about the improvement of Blaine Gabbert's footwork?

MM:  Well John, I don't want to give mixed signals, so he's improving just fine.

JO:  OK coach, thanks I think.  How about Blackmon's route running?  Coming into camp, that was his biggest flaw according to the pundits.  Does is seem as though he's coming around?

MM:  You're not tossing softballs today are you John?  From what I've heard from Jerry and what I've seen on tape, he seems to be improving in that area just fine.

JO:  Uhhhhh.  OK, Mike.  Thanks.  One last question.  Are you going to at least give anyone outside of the orginization an inkling of what's happening inside the fence at the Florida Blue practice fields or are you going to waste both mine and your time with these bullshit generic answers?

MM:  Settle down John.  Fine.  I won't sugarcoat it anymore.  You know in the past I've told you and the other media types EXACTLY what's going on and how the players and coaches are reacting to the new schemes and new bodies.  It's the same thing that I talk to my players and coaches on a daily basis - you need to work on this, you need to work on that, this sucks, this needs to be done this way.  Everytime I tell you guys what's really going on, my inbox floods with emails from this MTrain guy who keeps blasting me for coaching through the media, so fuck it.  I don't need the hassle and obviously this guy knows more about my team than me.  So from now on my answers are going to be, "yes, they're improving" or "I'll defer to MTrain."  Have a good one, John, I'll see you in the morning, but now, I've got tape to watch.

QuoteEverytime I tell you guys what's really going on, my inbox floods with emails from this MTrain guy who keeps blasting me for coaching through the media, so fuck it.  I don't need the hassle and obviously this guy knows more about my team than me.  So from now on my answers are going to be, "yes, they're improving" or "I'll defer to MTrain."

And I suppose NBC Sports is an also ran, if that's the case Alvin Brown should run for President on his popularity:

QuoteJaguars coach Mike Mularkey says first-round receiver Justin Blackmon looks about the way you’d expect a Top 5 rookie draft pick to look at the start of Organized Team Activities: Flashes of talent mixed with flashes of incompetence.

“When he knows what he’s doing, he’s very good,” Mularkey said. “When he doesn’t, he’s lost.”

Those times when Blackmon is lost are to be expected, and Mularkey said he’s confident Blackmon will know the offense by the time training camp starts.

Which means that the very good Blackmon should be the one we see on the field when the regular season starts. If Mularkey is doing his job. A BIG IF

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/30/mike-mularkey-justin-blackmon-alternates-between-great-and-lost/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/30/mike-mularkey-justin-blackmon-alternates-between-great-and-lost/)

Geez, and any of his comments, Mularkey that is, GOD forbid they picked up by national services, from our TEAM website:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8297166f/article/mularkey-justin-blackmon-lost-at-times-during-otas?module=News_CP (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8297166f/article/mularkey-justin-blackmon-lost-at-times-during-otas?module=News_CP)

"The one thing I tell players the very first day, 'If you're unclear of what to do when you come out of the huddle, please don't go to the line of scrimmage without knowing what to do,' " Mularkey told the team's official website. "That's not a good thing. I would prefer you say, 'Hey, I'm not sure what to do' and ask, so the play doesn't get totally blown out of proportion. ...

PFT was picked up by NBC Sports about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago.  They still don't 'report' as much as regurgitate other news feeds, but with more advertising than most.

When PFT starts breaking stories instead of 'this just in from Adam Schefter's twitter feed....', then they can enjoy some legitimacy. Until then, it's just a guy with a smartphone and a url.

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 05, 2012, 04:18:50 PM
PFT was picked up by NBC Sports about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago.  They still don't 'report' as much as regurgitate other news feeds, but with more advertising than most.

When PFT starts breaking stories instead of 'this just in from Adam Schefter's twitter feed....', then they can enjoy some legitimacy. Until then, it's just a guy with a smartphone and a url.

I like Peter King but it is embarassing that he has to sit next that weasel Florio on NBC Sunday Night Football. King is a veteran sportswriter and reporter that paid his dues. He worked his way up from beat writer to one of the big wigs at SI. Florio is some clown lawyer from WV that links to stories written by real writers. When Florio jumps on his soapbox, he usually just sticks his foot straight in his mouth. He once posted that he had heard Terry Bradshaw died. He went on for days about how Aaron Rodgers ignored an autograph request from a cancer patient, which was also untrue.

Blackmon's new name is "I'll Have Another"...or could easily be "Vodka/Tonic".  I might have to get me a #14 jersey with "I'll have another" on the back. Nice!

Quote from: mtraininjax on June 07, 2012, 11:03:39 AM
Blackmon's new name is "I'll Have Another"...or could easily be "Vodka/Tonic".  I might have to get me a #14 jersey with "I'll have another" on the back. Nice!

".24" should be his #

Quote from: British Shoe Company on June 07, 2012, 02:29:48 PM

Quote from: mtraininjax on June 07, 2012, 11:03:39 AM
Blackmon's new name is "I'll Have Another"...or could easily be "Vodka/Tonic".  I might have to get me a #14 jersey with "I'll have another" on the back. Nice!

".24" should be his #

Monday called and wants it's joke back.

QuoteMonday called and wants it's joke back.

Until "I'll have another" can prove he belongs in a Jags uniform, "we're just getting warmed up". Maybe he should wear 24, that is a good one!

Gene should go get the NYG backup QB Carr.  He is better than all 3 of our QB's.

No Palmer talk please.  He played against players who will not make the NYG opening day roster.

We are one of the worst teams in the NFL, and our best player is holding out.   

Jaguars will have a winning season is a  "Bunch of Mularkey"

so glad BSC has returned to bring us all back to reality ;)

Quote from: British Shoe Company on August 13, 2012, 10:08:04 PM
Gene should go get the NYG backup QB Carr.  He is better than all 3 of our QB's.

No Palmer talk please.  He played against players who will not make the NYG opening day roster.

We are one of the worst teams in the NFL, and our best player is holding out.   

Jaguars will have a winning season is a  "Bunch of Mularkey"

Ew...

Quote from: British Shoe Company on August 13, 2012, 10:08:04 PM
Gene Mike Tannenbaum should go get the NYG backup QB Carr.  He is better than all 3 of our QB's and our punt protector.

No Palmer Tebow talk please.  He played against players who will not make the NYG Bengals' opening day roster.  And they still won.

We are one of the worst teams in the NFL, and our best player is holding outhas 10 kids, is so-so on defense and has delusions that he's a wide receiver.   

Jaguars will have a winning season Jets going to the Super Bowl is a  "Bunch of Mularkey"the same tired shit we say every year only to go 8-8 and not have a win against a single team with a winning record all year.

I should be a freaking moderator. 

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 13, 2012, 11:29:58 PM

Quote from: British Shoe Company on August 13, 2012, 10:08:04 PM
Gene Mike Tannenbaum should go get the NYG backup QB Carr.  He is better than all 3 of our QB's and our punt protector.

No Palmer Tebow talk please.  He played against players who will not make the NYG Bengals' opening day roster.  And they still won.

We are one of the worst teams in the NFL, and our best player is holding outhas 10 kids, is so-so on defense and has delusions that he's a wide receiver.   

Jaguars will have a winning season Jets going to the Super Bowl is a  "Bunch of Mularkey"the same tired shit we say every year only to go 8-8 and not have a win against a single team with a winning record all year.

I should be a freaking moderator. 

At least an editor... ;D

David Carr? Seriously? One of the biggest quarterback draft busts ever. Lost his job in Houston after seasons of 4-12, 5-11, 7-9, 2-14, and 6-10. Went to Carolina and lost that job to Matt Moore. Moved on to the Giants where he threw a total of 36 passes in two seasons. Moved on to the 49ers for a season where he was 5 of 13 passing for 67 yards. And now back with the Giants. That's who you want to replace Gabbert, Henne, and Palmer with? Wow.

Quote from: Elwood on August 14, 2012, 08:37:26 AM
David Carr? Seriously? One of the biggest quarterback draft busts ever. Lost his job in Houston after seasons of 4-12, 5-11, 7-9, 2-14, and 6-10. Went to Carolina and lost that job to Matt Moore. Moved on to the Giants where he threw a total of 36 passes in two seasons. Moved on to the 49ers for a season where he was 5 of 13 passing for 67 yards. And now back with the Giants. That's who you want to replace Gabbert, Henne, and Palmer with? Wow.

British Shoe is upset that we didn't draft or trade for Tebow, which is about all you need to know about the David Carr analysis above.

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on August 14, 2012, 09:22:12 AM

Quote from: Elwood on August 14, 2012, 08:37:26 AM
David Carr? Seriously? One of the biggest quarterback draft busts ever. Lost his job in Houston after seasons of 4-12, 5-11, 7-9, 2-14, and 6-10. Went to Carolina and lost that job to Matt Moore. Moved on to the Giants where he threw a total of 36 passes in two seasons. Moved on to the 49ers for a season where he was 5 of 13 passing for 67 yards. And now back with the Giants. That's who you want to replace Gabbert, Henne, and Palmer with? Wow.

British Shoe is upset that we didn't draft or trade for Tebow, which is about all you need to know about the David Carr analysis above.

C'mon don't stop.  This is one of those times when I have no issue with digging up the dead horse, hanging him by the nearest tree, shooting him a few more times and beating him unmercifully with a large, blunt object.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the only method for dealing with the blind, Tebow Faithful.

Oh, is it time for our periodic British Shoe Company visit again? Seems like only yesterday (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,15160.msg281172.html#msg281172) he was here claiming FEMA would be taking over after Beryl.

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 13, 2012, 11:29:58 PM

Quote from: British Shoe Company on August 13, 2012, 10:08:04 PM
Gene Mike Tannenbaum should go get the NYG backup QB Carr.  He is better than all 3 of our QB's and our punt protector.

No Palmer Tebow talk please.  He played against players who will not make the NYG Bengals' opening day roster.  And they still won.

We are one of the worst teams in the NFL, and our best player is holding outhas 10 kids, is so-so on defense and has delusions that he's a wide receiver.   

Jaguars will have a winning season Jets going to the Super Bowl is a  "Bunch of Mularkey"the same tired shit we say every year only to go 8-8 and not have a win against a single team with a winning record all year.

I should be a freaking moderator. 

Jolly good spin!

Quote from: British Shoe Company on August 14, 2012, 12:18:59 PM

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 13, 2012, 11:29:58 PM

Quote from: British Shoe Company on August 13, 2012, 10:08:04 PM
Gene Mike Tannenbaum should go get the NYG backup QB Carr.  He is better than all 3 of our QB's and our punt protector.

No Palmer Tebow talk please.  He played against players who will not make the NYG Bengals' opening day roster.  And they still won.

We are one of the worst teams in the NFL, and our best player is holding outhas 10 kids, is so-so on defense and has delusions that he's a wide receiver.   

Jaguars will have a winning season Jets going to the Super Bowl is a  "Bunch of Mularkey"the same tired shit we say every year only to go 8-8 and not have a win against a single team with a winning record all year.

I should be a freaking moderator. 

Jolly good spin!

You earned a  ;D for no other reason than using the word, 'Jolly'.

Just for BSC.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/ground-emerges-as-tim-tebows-favorite-target,29210/

Tebow stuff aside....are the Gene lovers in the house satisfied with out offensive line depth??

Quote from: Gators312 on August 17, 2012, 12:46:04 PM
Tebow stuff aside....are the Gene lovers in the house satisfied with out offensive line depth??

Thinking Gene is not a buffoon doesn't equate to "loving" him.

They came into the season with

Monroe (starter), Britton (starter), Meester (starter), Rackley (starter), Nwaneri (starter), Spitz (former starter and reasonably competent backup), Whimper (irritating, but a longtime NFL backup), Bradfield (promising project with some game experience), and Estes (backup being groomed to be a starter).

Additionally, there were projects Nowak and Baldridge and promising undrafted rookie Brewster.

Do you really think most teams carry more capable offensive linemen than that on their rosters?  Do you think the Jaguars should have predicted having a very unusual spate of 1-to-4 week injuries happen to one position at once?

I realize this is intended to be a comment on taking Anger instead of a potential backup lineman in the third, but it's not like the Jaguars came into the year with only 5 or 6 linemen capable of contributing and crossing their fingers for the best.  They just had a weird run of bad injury luck. 

No team that had three starting linemen and its two top backups hurt at once could compensate much better.  Look at how Dallas couldn't do anything offensively with just its C and RG out.

I agree Wacca. But this guy only comments on Jags topic when he has something negative to say. I responded early but forgot to post it, and it was not as nice as your response  ;D Gene is not perfect, but you cant blame him for injuries. When your starters AND back ups get injuried all at once, that a bad situation for any team. Luckily, the injuries are minor and they all will be ready to start the regular season. (waiting to hear back on monroe though)

I guess my desire to be negative is in direct response to the love fest you guys seem to have with Smith.

He's no buffoon, he just isn't very good at his job.  And all I hear from you guys is excuses for him.

I hesitate to post more of my assessments on the team here, because of the really thick Teal & Black glasses you guys wear, and any honest criticism is seen as 'Hating on the Jaguars' or "Tebow Envy".   

Just because BSC likes to troll you doesn't mean that you should just dismiss anyone who thinks Gene Smith isn't the smartest guy in the room.

Your list of OL is not one that makes NFL people go ooh and ahhh....It's a bunch of guys who we have been hoping will perform, Meester (long in tooth) & Nwaneri are probably the only guys who have performed well and consistently in their careers.   

Just because you know all their names and list them so eloquently doesn't make them the New England Patriots OL.   

I'm not asking them to carry more OL than they should, but the OL for the Jags has been bitten by the injury bug repeatedly the past 2 years.  If they did draft more OL whether or not the it being the Anger pick there would be a better quality backup getting reps right now.   Balancing the roster and being prepared for contingencies is part of his job.   Anger has punted well, but how many plays does he participate in per season?

Are you really satisfied with the OL Wacca?  Really?

With the poor performances of past years Smith has been given plenty of opportunities to stock this team through the draft, and I just don't see the results.   

I know, I know wait until next year. 

Quote from: Gators312 on August 17, 2012, 03:27:33 PM
I guess my desire to be negative is in direct response to the love fest you guys seem to have with Smith.

He's no buffoon, he just isn't very good at his job.  And all I hear from you guys is excuses for him.

I hesitate to post more of my assessments on the team here, because of the really thick Teal & Black glasses you guys wear, and any honest criticism is seen as 'Hating on the Jaguars' or "Tebow Envy".   

Just because BSC likes to troll you doesn't mean that you should just dismiss anyone who thinks Gene Smith isn't the smartest guy in the room.

Your list of OL is not one that makes NFL people go ooh and ahhh....It's a bunch of guys who we have been hoping will perform, Meester (long in tooth) & Nwaneri are probably the only guys who have performed well and consistently in their careers.   

Just because you know all their names and list them so eloquently doesn't make them the New England Patriots OL.   

I'm not asking them to carry more OL than they should, but the OL for the Jags has been bitten by the injury bug repeatedly the past 2 years.  If they did draft more OL whether or not the it being the Anger pick there would be a better quality backup getting reps right now.   Balancing the roster and being prepared for contingencies is part of his job.   Anger has punted well, but how many plays does he participate in per season?

Are you really satisfied with the OL Wacca?  Really?

With the poor performances of past years Smith has been given plenty of opportunities to stock this team through the draft, and I just don't see the results.   

I know, I know wait until next year.

Several months ago you and I had a rational, informed discussion about Gene Smith's performance.  You expressed that you thought the players he had drafted/brought in as free agents were merely average to decent players (for the most part) and therefore he had failed in bringing in front line talent.  I thought you were underrating a few of the players and that the quantity of adequate-to-good starters was, while not a great yield, a reasonably good one.  It was a fair, balanced, adult conversation.  I enjoyed it.  I was more optimistic about the franchise's present and future than you were, I suppose, but I sure didn't dismiss your point of view as irrational and uninformed, because it certainly was not.

Now you've devolved into accusations of wearing really thick teal and black glasses and having love fests.  Also, apparently I was showing off or something by listing people's names.

I don't think the OL is great or will be great this season, but I think four of the starters are still ascending players and that the Jaguars came into the season with at least eight linemen who belonged on an NFL roster.  For that reason, I think the line, when healthy, will be at least adequate.  Thankfully none of the injuries seem to be anything major.

I don't think there's much difference in our opinions of the individual linemen.  I would agree with you about which two have been consistently good.  I think Monroe has done better than most have credited him for - he's not Walter Jones, but he was the best tackle of that draft and has been an above-average starting LT - and I'm encouraged at what scouts were seeing in Rackley before he was drafted, as well as his improvement during last season after a terrible start, but I guess that all makes me a blind homer who name-drops, or something.

I didn't say any of them are stars or that the line was a fantastic unit.  I was responding specifically to the depth question you raised because I think the Jaguars have at least an NFL-average number of offensive linemen who can contribute and aren't just warm bodies, even if none of them are great linemen. 

I also assumed you were referring to the Anger pick specifically because I remembered your saying at length that you'd rather the Jags had drafted a backup lineman than a punter.  (And most of us on here, including Duvaldude who you're also attacking, were critical of the Anger pick when it happened.) 

I never said you hated the Jaguars or envied Tebow.  The Tebow business was all directed at BSC and the last of it was an article from the Onion, for heaven's sakes.

Since I'm certain based on past experience that you and I can have a good conversation about this topic without everything turning into "hater," "lover," "kool-aid," "thick glasses," etc., I would be curious to know what specific linemen you were particularly hoping to see the Jags pursue in this draft, and if you have any thoughts on how they're doing so far this preseason. 

Won't be online much for the rest of today or the weekend, but I look forward to the discussion.  Thanks.

Im "all-in" on Bryan Anger. After he caused two muffed punts, that resulted in point on the board, Im not complaining anymore.  ;D

Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 17, 2012, 04:20:14 PM
Im "all-in" on Bryan Anger. After he caused two muffed punts, that resulted in point on the board, Im not complaining anymore.  ;D

Me neither, seeing as I have an Anger jersey coming in the mail today.  I hope that doesn't make me a blind Anger/Gene Smith lover or a show-off for mentioning his name.

You are right Wacca, we have in the past and can continue to discuss this rationally.   

Justin Blackmon - Great Pick.

Jump on the Angerwagon  ;D    Were the muffs really because of him, or was it a bad decision to take a step back by the returner at the last minute in the first preseason game of the year?  I didn't see the second one.  If it continues to lead to points during the regular season,  then yes it's a coup for the Jaguars and Gene Smith.  At the maximum it is only 10% of the total plays he is on the field, I don't think is worth a 3rd round pick.  Now if he is an anomaly and directly leads to points in multiple games then the Jags / Smith should get the accolades for the pick, only time will tell.    I want the guy to kick the hell out of the ball, and no one to ever get a return because the hang time causes fair catches every time, or they fumble it.  I hope Anger is that guy.  It doesn't change my opinion that a Pro Bowl punter can be found without using a 3rd round pick, and that the Jaguars team needs were better served picking someone else.  I believe he would have been around in the 4th or later.   

As for drafting differently I would have had more focus on the OL.

I would have taken Cordy Glen rather than Andre Branch.  He is a big body and has played successfully at T/G @Georgia, playing against SEC Defensive lines.   Having played both positions he would be valuable to the Jags.   My opinion before the draft was to get a young talented guy in the OL rotation who could be flexible in case of injury.  Improve the overall talent level of the offensive line to the talent level of our DL.   Getting a DE could have waited until the 3rd with a guy like Tyrone Crawford.

If no OL in the 2nd round then in the 3rd taking a G like Josh LeRibeus or Brandon Brooks and waiting for Anger in the 4th.

Hypothetically there are several other scenarios that involve trading for more picks to get a couple DE and/or OL, but that is debatable as none of us know what the Jaguars could have done. 

In the NFL you can't win if you can't win along the line of scrimmage.  If Blaine isn't upright and given time to throw it doesn't matter how dominant your defense is, you will still lose if you can't score.   

Wacca you said:  "I think the line, when healthy, will be at least adequate."   In your own words, this is a damning statement for the job Gene Smith has done. 

Rarely in the NFL does the OL avoid injuries to someone in the starting lineup.   Adequate in the NFL gets you 5-12.

I want long term success for the Jaguars, multiple playoff appearances, Super Bowl etc.  I just think it will take someone other than Smith in the front office to achieve that.

I understand where you are coming from.  As much as I like Anger, I would've expected him to be there later than the third.  And the draft was deep in DEs, so even though I am impressed with Branch so far, we probably could've waited until the third for a Crawford.

I also understand always having an eye on OL in the draft.  I wasn't especially concerned about our getting a backup interior lineman but I was kind of hoping we would draft a backup tackle for insurance.  I was interested in Sanders and the Mississippi RT whose name I'm forgetting.   

Glenn got the job done against SEC competition but I was concerned about whether he had the speed, footwork, and technique to be an NFL tackle.  I was concerned he would be a bust at tackle (not that he couldn't be moved to guard).  Buffalo apparently is throwing him to the wolves at tackle and I'm very interested to see how he will do.

I think I'm being a little unclear when I say "adequate."  I didn't mean "the starters are barely passable" by that but "the overall unit is good enough to win with."  I think Monroe, Nwaneri, and Meester are above-average starters, I hope Britton and Rackley will be at least average (at least I think they have the ability to be), and I thought Spitz/Estes/Bradfield were acceptable backups.  Estes' absence is my biggest concern because like you said, Brad's been around a long time and if he gets hurt, right now we would be down to Brewster at C and in the same boat as the Cowboys.  Of course, some observers thought Brewster was a steal and good be a good backup too (I don't know watch enough Big 10 football to comment intelligently) and Spitz can also play C.   

I think we were just talking past each other before, because both of us think the line, overall, is not fantastic.  I was just commenting on depth because I don't think any NFL teams have more than 8 or 9 linemen who can play.  We did have 8, hopefully 9 with Brewster, though the absence of Estes takes us back down to 8.  Having 8 or 9 who can play, to me, doesn't reflect a failure to accumulate depth.  I wish we had an ace lineman rather than three pretty good starters and two OK starters, but I didn't think the number of linemen was a problem coming into the season.  That's all. 

I don't think it's comparable to '08 (pre-Smith), when Meester missed six games and both starting guards went out on opening day, because the backups were incompetent other than a then-raw Nwaneri.  Also, both Barnes and Pashos regressed that year and the only backup T of any consequence was a shooting victim right before the season started, so there was no way to replace them.  That was a definite failure of depth accumulation.  This year, I don't think the world stops if one or two guys go down because there are competent reserves on hand.

What do you think Smith should have done differently in building the line?  Do you think they missed out on a specific draft pick or free agent?  Carl Nicks in FA this year or Pouncey in the draft?  I really don't have that much of a complaint with his decision making process, other than I wish we had had more trade-down opportunities and maybe there was a failure to pursue those.  I would've approved of trading down and taking Pouncey or the guard who went to the 49ers whose name I'm forgetting in the 2010 draft (I think I remember your having mentioned that one specifically before).  Monroe seemed like the best call in the first round in '09 and has in fact been the best LT of the draft, Britton seemed like probably the best available player at the time of the second pick (mock drafts had him going at about #20-25), and Mayock and other respected scouts praised the Rackley selection on that draft night.

I don't think Smith's been perfect by any means, but I think he's done a pretty good job overall.  I think he's made good FA decisions, picked up some useful undrafted FAs, and made a very smart trade in getting Lowery for next to nothing.  His draft record has been mixed - I consider 2009 a good draft, 2010 a disappointing one.  We'll know a lot more about his draft record after this year as we see how the 2011-12 guys are panning out.  Hopefully Gabbert, Rackley, D'Anthony Smith, Blackmon, and Branch all make real strides this year.  If they do the record looks a lot better. 

If you look at draft history (and I am the kind of person who will pore over the NFL draft encyclopedia), it's rare for teams to hit on every pick in the draft, or even close to it, even to the extent of having a starter or useful contributor each round.  I think the expectation that every pick will be a pearl is unrealistic, and it bewilders me - not that you did this, of course - when people get hopping mad that a 5th rounder only lasted a year, or something.  What Gene hasn't drafted yet is a star and that's where his draft record falls short.  Hopefully a few of these picks become stars.  But a draft like '09, with Monroe, Britton, Cox, Knighton, Thomas, Jennings - that's a lot of quality contributors for one draft by any standard (notwithstanding Thomas' rotten, miscast 2011).  I'd rather have that than a draft where you get a star in the first round and then virtually nothing else the rest of draft weekend.  (Or a pre-Gene 2008 where a bunch of picks are frittered away in trades and none of the guys are even in the NFL anymore except Quentin Groves.)

I think in rating Smith there tends also to be an underestimate of just how severe a rebuilding project the Jaguars faced when he took over after 2008. 

The only real position of strength was RB.  Adequate starting QB in Garrard but nothing developing behind him.  WR a disaster area with Jones, Northcutt, and Williams on the way out the door for good reason and Sims-Walker the only piece worth keeping around.  TE was not terrible with Lewis and a couple of acceptable blocking backups.  The O-line, the only pieces worth keeping were Nwaneri and Meester, with Manuwai coming back from a serious injury and everyone else who had extended playing time in '08 justly being shown the door. 

The D-line was a mix of old players who were in decline or about to retire (Henderson, Meier, Spicer), two young guys who were and would remain severe disappointments (Groves and Harvey), and some replacement-level veterans like Kennedy and McDaniel.  Mincey worked out well, but at the time he was constantly hurt.  LB looked strong at the time, but Peterson was in decline, Ingram and Durant never really panned out the way we hoped, and only Daryl Smith was and would remain a quality player.  The secondary was a disaster area, with one good starter in Mathis, gaping holes everywhere else, and no one who would qualify as a good reserve except Florence, who was getting starter money and creating resentment because of it.

Looking at that roster as '08 ended, it was not only short of blue-chip players but alarmingly short of what I guess you could call red-chip guys who were mid-level NFL starters or even decent backups.  Look at that team and who would you want to keep around long-term?  Who appears to be an average or better NFL starter on it?  Jones-Drew, Greg Jones, Lewis, Nwaneri, Daryl Smith, Mathis, Scobee, Podlesh is about it.  Plus Garrard as a stopgap, because what other choice was there, and Mincey and Sims-Walker seemed to have potential.

That's a tremendous, tremendous hole to dig out of and while Gene hasn't filled the roster with stars since then, he's restocked it and brought in what I consider a good quantity of average or better starters and backups: Monroe, Britton, Robinson, Jennings, Thomas (as a slot WR), Knighton, Alualu, Posluszny, Session (prior to his injury), Allen, Cox, Lowery, Landry, Ross, Middleton.  Plus some guys who are hopefully going to blossom into very good players like Gabbert, Branch, and Blackmon.  And I think Rackley, Lane, and Shorts will become useful contributors.

I understand the point of view that none of them is a real star, and I understand the criticism that Gene played it safe instead of taking chances on a guy with higher upside in some instances (e.g., Alualu over Pierre-Paul).  But the quantity of useful NFL players on our roster is much, much greater than it was four years ago, and I give Smith credit for that.  A lot of GMs would have panicked and swung for the fences in free agency and the draft in potentially crippling ways.  They might've gone for the gate attraction in Tebow and put an already highly questionable QB in an exceedingly difficult situation.  They might've tried to delude themselves into thinking guys like Barnes and Pashos still had something left in the tank.  They might've gone for a skill position guy with a lot of sizzle like Michael Crabtree at the start of the '09 draft instead of taking a safe and solid pick like Monroe. 

Smith's level-headedness stabilized and buttressed the roster and kept the franchise from making a disastrous situation into a calamity that might've threatened the team's very existence in Jacksonville.  For that, I am grateful and think he was the right man for the time.  Will his caution prevent the Jaguars from moving to the next level?  Possibly, and I understand why you would be concerned about that.  It goes without saying that 2012 seems to be the year that will determine Smith's record and future, and particularly the Gabbert factor.

I still say FIRE HIM. I watched Seattle last night, and their back up QB is Russell Wilson. Wilson played at NC Sate
where he single handedly beat FSU at least once , and then transfered to Wisconsin, where in his first and only season he set the all time Passing Efficiency rating record with a 191 rating while leading Wisconsin to the Big ten Championship. Threw 33 touchdown passes (also a record) on a primarily running team...... His list of statistical superlatives is nothing short of amazing.

ANYWAY...................................

He looked like an experienced pro absolutely destroying the Broncos back ups as he went up and down the field.
I checked and, you geussed it, he was taken 5 draft picks AFTER Gene Smith picked Anger. When you miss guys like Russel Wilson  because you took a punter then you put yourself in the type of hole it is nearly impossible to get out of.

That's certainly a fair criticism.  I imagine at the moment a lot of fans are mad at their GMs for not taking Russell Wilson.  I imagine a lot of Seattle fans are mad at their GM for paying $9 million a year for Matt Flynn when he is probably going to end up backing up Russell Wilson.

Another ugly season for the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2012 has the organization thinking differently about 2013.

NFL Network's Mike Lombardi told "First on the Field" on Sunday that longtime general manager Gene Smith will be fired by the team.

ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that a pair of player personnel directors, Jason Licht of the Arizona Cardinals and Tom Gamble of the San Francisco 49ers, loom as potential candidates.

The Jaguars would like to retain first-year head coach Mike Mularkey, according to reports, but we expect significant roster changes for the 2-13 club. Former owner Wayne Weaver urged Shahid Khan to retain Smith, but it's no surprise the first-year owner wants to hand pick a successor.

Smith was named GM prior to the 2009 season and he's one of 10 current Jaguars staff members employed by the team dating back to the franchise's launch in 199. The Jaguars have never finished better than 8-8 under Smith, results that don't jive with Khan's hunger for a perennial winner.

Follow Marc Sessler on Twitter @MarcSesslerNFL.

NFL Network will be live all day tomorrow to cover the coach/GM/roster changes.

Jaguars Radio Network was making note of ESPN's report on Gene Smith just before game time.

Anyone who has heard the weekly Jaguars radio show on WOKV when Gene Smith is speaking, he has always been diplomatic and humble about his GM role. As he says, "I serve the team until they tell me I am not". He has always been very candid and straightforward about how the NFL works and is aware that jobs are as secure as your wins and losses.

Mark Lamping (President of the Jaguars) ran the St Louis Cardinals during their World Series runs in the late 90's/early 2000's. He knows how professional sports organizations s/b run. I would believe Lamping if he says that changes are required in any part of the organization at any time. He runs a tight ship in sports.

Hate to say "I told you so" but Russel Wilson led Seattle into the playoffs, as a Rookie, while we ended amongst the worst teams in the NFL. You build a great team (like for instance, the NE Patriots), over many years through excellent drafting, player development, and the occaisional trade to fill in a hole or position of need. We have done none of these things. There are excellent players all over the NFL who were drafted after the third round, you just have to have an eye for it. Smith has had several drafts to build this team and has managed to nab one superstar for this team, MJD.

Gene Smith is terrible and no other team will take him, at any price.

Was Wayne Weaver actually quoted as suggesting to Shad Khan to keep Smith? That sounds surprisingly naive for a guy of Weaver's stature, to try and tell Khan what to do with the team after selling it to him. I never saw that or heard it reported. We cannot get any worse, so I welcome all the change possible.

Gene Smith Fired this morning 12/31/2012 on his Birthday! Happy Birthday Mr. Smith  ;)

Quote from: MusicMan on December 30, 2012, 11:43:59 PM
Was Wayne Weaver actually quoted as suggesting to Shad Khan to keep Smith? That sounds surprisingly naive for a guy of Weaver's stature, to try and tell Khan what to do with the team after selling it to him. I never saw that or heard it reported. We cannot get any worse, so I welcome all the change possible.

on the same day that Del Rio was fired and the team was sold, Smith was given a contract extension...what makes you think that happened without Weaver talking to Khan?

UPDATE: Jaguars coach Mike Mularkey told players in a team meeting he's still the head coach after talking with the owner Thursday and Monday, reported Fox Sports Insider and NFL Network contributor Jay Glazer.

Quote from: tufsu1 on December 31, 2012, 10:24:13 AM

Quote from: MusicMan on December 30, 2012, 11:43:59 PM
Was Wayne Weaver actually quoted as suggesting to Shad Khan to keep Smith? That sounds surprisingly naive for a guy of Weaver's stature, to try and tell Khan what to do with the team after selling it to him. I never saw that or heard it reported. We cannot get any worse, so I welcome all the change possible.

on the same day that Del Rio was fired and the team was sold, Smith was given a contract extension...what makes you think that happened without Weaver talking to Khan?

I also questioned what really happened. Even when Khan was asked about it, he wouldnt comment. That lead me to believe that Weaver did it before offically handing the team over. But even if he did "convince" khan to give Smith a chance, that wasnt right either. Khan should have brought his own personnal in from the beginning. WW should not have "forced" any of his people on the new ownership. Of course I dont blame Khan for it. He was a new owner and only trusted what WW told him (if that actually happened).

Quote from: duvaldude08 on December 31, 2012, 10:45:47 AM

Quote from: tufsu1 on December 31, 2012, 10:24:13 AM

Quote from: MusicMan on December 30, 2012, 11:43:59 PM
Was Wayne Weaver actually quoted as suggesting to Shad Khan to keep Smith? That sounds surprisingly naive for a guy of Weaver's stature, to try and tell Khan what to do with the team after selling it to him. I never saw that or heard it reported. We cannot get any worse, so I welcome all the change possible.

on the same day that Del Rio was fired and the team was sold, Smith was given a contract extension...what makes you think that happened without Weaver talking to Khan?

I also questioned what really happened. Even when Khan was asked about it, he wouldnt comment. That lead me to believe that Weaver did it before offically handing the team over. But even if he did "convince" khan to give Smith a chance, that wasnt right either. Khan should have brought his own personnal in from the beginning. WW should not have "forced" any of his people on the new ownership. Of course I dont blame Khan for it. He was a new owner and only trusted what WW told him (if that actually happened).

It is not unusual in corporate circles to retain some of the prior staff as part of ones executive transition plan. You give them a shot to see if they can work to your expectations or hold on to them until you have your plans together. Also, if you are planning a total revamp, you don't want the collective organizational knowledge to go out the door in a day.

I would just consider it the next step in the revamp of the Jags. I am sure there will be more.

What surprised me is that the announcement comes from Shad himself, not Mark Lamping the President.

Quote from: Gators312 on March 25, 2012, 12:54:27 PM
Gene Smith will never build a team better than 9-7. 

He has wasted picks already trying to be the smartest guy in the room.  Taking several small school guys who haven't panned out, thinking he knows more than 31 other organizations.  He has taken the most small school guys of any GM in the NFL during his tenure.   Where has that gotten us?

I don't want to "hate" on the Jaguars as they are our home team, I just don't think Gene Smith can take us where we want to go.

I'm glad he hasn't done a TERRIBLE job so far, but if that's all we can get excited about means we have a long way to go. 

Please name me someone that the Jaguars drafted that was a "home run" under Gene?  How about Free Agents?

Well is really doesnt matter now because he's gone. So I really dont understand why the debate continues. TO answer question, he had some home runs, just very few. Blackmon, Shorts, and Cox are the only picks he got right. Shorts in particular is the golden child of his drafts. Cox is outstanding, but his inability to stay healthly is going to be a problem. OTher than that he make a few solid picks, but to your point, it still wasnt enough. Hes gones now, so lets just move on.

Quote from: duvaldude08 on December 31, 2012, 10:56:30 AM

Quote from: Gators312 on March 25, 2012, 12:54:27 PM
Gene Smith will never build a team better than 9-7. 

He has wasted picks already trying to be the smartest guy in the room.  Taking several small school guys who haven't panned out, thinking he knows more than 31 other organizations.  He has taken the most small school guys of any GM in the NFL during his tenure.   Where has that gotten us?

I don't want to "hate" on the Jaguars as they are our home team, I just don't think Gene Smith can take us where we want to go.

I'm glad he hasn't done a TERRIBLE job so far, but if that's all we can get excited about means we have a long way to go. 

Please name me someone that the Jaguars drafted that was a "home run" under Gene?  How about Free Agents?

Well is really doesnt matter now because he's gone. So I really dont understand why the debate continues. TO answer question, he had some home runs, just very few. Blackmon, Shorts, and Cox are the only picks he got right. Shorts in particular is the golden child of his drafts. Cox is outstanding, but his inability to stay healthly is going to be a problem. OTher than that he make a few solid picks, but to your point, it still wasnt enough. Hes gones now, so lets just move on.

I'm confused, the debate isn't continuing?  You quoted me from March 2012?

Quote from: spuwho on December 31, 2012, 10:55:24 AM

Quote from: duvaldude08 on December 31, 2012, 10:45:47 AM

Quote from: tufsu1 on December 31, 2012, 10:24:13 AM

Quote from: MusicMan on December 30, 2012, 11:43:59 PM
Was Wayne Weaver actually quoted as suggesting to Shad Khan to keep Smith? That sounds surprisingly naive for a guy of Weaver's stature, to try and tell Khan what to do with the team after selling it to him. I never saw that or heard it reported. We cannot get any worse, so I welcome all the change possible.

on the same day that Del Rio was fired and the team was sold, Smith was given a contract extension...what makes you think that happened without Weaver talking to Khan?

I also questioned what really happened. Even when Khan was asked about it, he wouldnt comment. That lead me to believe that Weaver did it before offically handing the team over. But even if he did "convince" khan to give Smith a chance, that wasnt right either. Khan should have brought his own personnal in from the beginning. WW should not have "forced" any of his people on the new ownership. Of course I dont blame Khan for it. He was a new owner and only trusted what WW told him (if that actually happened).

It is not unusual in corporate circles to retain some of the prior staff as part of ones executive transition plan. You give them a shot to see if they can work to your expectations or hold on to them until you have your plans together. Also, if you are planning a total revamp, you don't want the collective organizational knowledge to go out the door in a day.

I would just consider it the next step in the revamp of the Jags. I am sure there will be more.

What surprised me is that the announcement comes from Shad himself, not Mark Lamping the President.

I actually would rather hear it from the owner. Khan knows they are skating on thin ice with the fan base. He needed to make the accouncement himself. But what is encouraging is that Lamping will be invovled in the GM search. He knows what the heck he's doing. Khan and Lamping share the same vision and believe in over acheiving. They are going to get the best person in there as possible. Im excited.

Quote from: Gators312 on December 31, 2012, 11:02:11 AM

Quote from: duvaldude08 on December 31, 2012, 10:56:30 AM

Quote from: Gators312 on March 25, 2012, 12:54:27 PM
Gene Smith will never build a team better than 9-7. 

He has wasted picks already trying to be the smartest guy in the room.  Taking several small school guys who haven't panned out, thinking he knows more than 31 other organizations.  He has taken the most small school guys of any GM in the NFL during his tenure.   Where has that gotten us?

I don't want to "hate" on the Jaguars as they are our home team, I just don't think Gene Smith can take us where we want to go.

I'm glad he hasn't done a TERRIBLE job so far, but if that's all we can get excited about means we have a long way to go. 

Please name me someone that the Jaguars drafted that was a "home run" under Gene?  How about Free Agents?

Well is really doesnt matter now because he's gone. So I really dont understand why the debate continues. TO answer question, he had some home runs, just very few. Blackmon, Shorts, and Cox are the only picks he got right. Shorts in particular is the golden child of his drafts. Cox is outstanding, but his inability to stay healthly is going to be a problem. OTher than that he make a few solid picks, but to your point, it still wasnt enough. Hes gones now, so lets just move on.

I'm confused, the debate isn't continuing?  You quoted me from March 2012?

Hahahaha now how did I do that?? Look man its my first day back at work after being off for 9 days, Im delusional right now!  ;D