We are all here because we all have one thing in common: we want to see Jacksonville reach its fullest potential. What does everyone on here want to see Jacksonville become? What is it that you think Jacksonville has to become great? How do you see that happening? What would it take to get there? I think we could get somewhere with this thread. Also, be specific on details.
In my long-winded way, I’ll provide some thoughts along with some suggestions as how to get there (if only partially and naively).
Start working from the guiding principle and go from there:
Jacksonville should be what it is, accent what it is, and market what it is. It’s natural, it’s green, it is home-grown.
Jacksonville’s slogan needs to change: it needs to proudly scream who we are for both our residents and outsiders alike: overall, Jacksonville is “First Florida, Real Florida†(a concept not a suggested new slogan).
In conjunction, therefore, Jacksonville desperately needs to enhance (hell, almost create) connectivity of those “First Florida, Real Florida†assets (and that is not first a tourist-centric idea â€" it is how we’ve lived and still live in many places). Unfortunately, this second item is not cheap.
Start with the inexpensive for this second item: Not the rebranding, but rather, for the first time, a stating what the “Skyway†is: it is a green, environmentally friendly transportation system, which, though a modern construct, stays concordant with our surrounding natural, green environment (that is, the “Real Floridaâ€). (I’d note in many cities a Skyway refers to elevated pedestrian walkways that connect downtown office towers.)
But how can green transit really be green if it is stubbed, if it leaves the users nowhere but off this green system without arriving at their destination? It can not be substantially expanded, not now politically anyway, I think, but it can be, with leadership, an asset that connects all of the elements of our immediate downtown.
A new convention center - architecturally (and strongly and uniquely) blending with the St. Johns River - provides the opportunity for a one or two stop expansion of the Skyway (replace with some kind of new name emphasizing its green nature) as well as expansion of other green systems in the immediate downtown area. It may be possible for the revenue system created to develop the convention center to be packaged with other downtown asset improvements. There might be great opportunity here.
Specifically, the (newly-named) Skyway needs to connect to this new convention center; the riverwalk needs expansion to the architecturally classic Riverside area (definitely Memorial Park); more transit, a streetcar system, needs to tie together other “First Florida†architectural areas -- the denser small-town areas -- with each other and with the downtown area; a river pier; Hogans Creek. Sacramento is planting a million trees. How far can we go?
In large cities, and at large hotels, transit â€" usually buses â€" bring guests to outer tourist sites. That may not be possible in Jacksonville, but perhaps if the city, JTA, the convention center, and all hotels work together, some system can be hobbled together, if only running a few times on the weekends, to get guests (and residents) to the outer green areas of Jacksonville. It’s worth a try.
Outer green areas could include the zoo (it already has a Florida section, perhaps this would expand and be emphasized), Cedar Point or some launch area into some of the wetlands (and somehow a defined one or two marked, trail system in the marsh areas to be followed) and the beaches, among others. Transit points (the airport and, yes, a consolidated transportation center), downtown hotels, points of interest, the convention center, need to market this transit system and detail its stops.
A little less clear, a little more strained in its connectivity, this wild Florida, this natural Florida, comes along with a young demographic. It is artistic (Read Five Points); it has a past tied with the movie industry; and with a music industry that was soulful, and, in many cases, proud to be down-home, real and sourced from a Southern environment. Embrace and promote. Market it outside and with the orientation of a new language, even just to ourselves, and see more flourishing of this element as a result. We live inside language.
Fervently opposed by some posters on the website (sorry for my opinion), billboards and bright lights should not have a large place in this city. We look pretty good on this front right now, but imagine someday the city allowing billboards on Butler: Drive to the aesthetically pleasing, place to recuperate Mayo Clinic; to the beaches; to the beautiful golf courses and tournaments at Sawgrass with large billboards along the way? And I don’t see the connection with the largest urban park system.
The graduate school at the University of North Carolina took a high level look at Jacksonville (I can no longer find this study on the Internet), but it concluded Jacksonville was short in realizing the importance of its environmental assets; the importance, and potential success sourcing from its green assets and green promotion.
Can we tie all of our assets together; make a whole out of these assets? That is how we need to be and become. I think so.
It's a shame Jacksonville doesn't have a large, downtown, waterfront park. In fact, it's a shame how little access the public has to the river in general (6 acres of Memorial Park doesn't cut it).
Tie together Riverside/Avondale/Downtown/San Marco with a transit system other than buses.
+ 1000
Random, but always thought Jax should advertise its merits more on billboards on 95. Driving south into Florida, you'd hardly even know Jax existed until you hit downtown. We should advertise our historic districts and riverfront more. Furthermore, I wonder how many road trippers know how cool the 5 Points exit is...I mean, jeez, it's right off 95! You'd never know its there because there's NO signage.
I did like the green signs on I-95 that used to say "Riverfront" (kind of unique)...they've all been changed to "downtown."
...and being who we are I'd like to see some of our own unique language and sayings captured...I'd love to see the green direction signs on the Arlington Expressway say "Townbound". I'd love to see the green direction signs on I-95 say "Northbank Riverfront" and "Southbank Riverfront."
I'm by no means an expert on this topic, so I apologise if I get some of the details wrong, but:
I'd like to see a focus on infill and reducing sprawl. Some kind of development boundary or incentive to get developers to work with what we have before destroying more woodlands or whatever to build new developments.
I'd also like to see more affordable apartments downtown in order to entice the kinds of people who would be willing to move downtown when there are little in the way of amenities - in other words, students, artists, etc. That way downtown would eventually develop into a neighbourhood and attract more local business. And then the urban professional types can move in once it's safe and has a 'funky' personality or whatever.
I'd also like to see dedicated bus lanes and cycle lanes.
Quote from: Adam W on March 24, 2012, 05:08:31 PM
I'm by no means an expert on this topic, so I apologise if I get some of the details wrong, but:
I'd like to see a focus on infill and reducing sprawl. Some kind of development boundary or incentive to get developers to work with what we have before destroying more woodlands or whatever to build new developments.
I'd also like to see more affordable apartments downtown in order to entice the kinds of people who would be willing to move downtown when there are little in the way of amenities - in other words, students, artists, etc. That way downtown would eventually develop into a neighbourhood and attract more local business. And then the urban professional types can move in once it's safe and has a 'funky' personality or whatever.
I'd also like to see dedicated bus lanes and cycle lanes.
+1. I think 99.99% of this forum would agree.
Recently I was talking to a professor at UCF. UCF just moved their Fine Arts graduate building downtown near the old Amway Colosseum. This man said the city is going to be making the site of the old Amway Colosseum a huge art village. He said the city of Orlando is working very close to the art community to make this 'art village' a reality. It is kind of sad that Jacksonville is so close, but the leadership is so far from this kind of idea. All artists here have to chop through all the tape to make something exciting happen... and I applaud the ones who do. Our city leadership needs to step up its game if it wants to compete (even with our close neighbors).
These are all amazing ideas and I think it could all come together if someone from MJ got on the inside.
yep
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on March 24, 2012, 06:42:58 PM
Recently I was talking to a professor at UCF. UCF just moved their Fine Arts graduate building downtown near the old Amway Colosseum. This man said the city is going to be making the site of the old Amway Colosseum a huge art village. He said the city of Orlando is working very close to the art community to make this 'art village' a reality. It is kind of sad that Jacksonville is so close, but the leadership is so far from this kind of idea. All artists here have to chop through all the tape to make something exciting happen... and I applaud the ones who do. Our city leadership needs to step up its game if it wants to compete (even with our close neighbors).
like Jacksonville,m Orlando has had its share of unfulfilled promises...their creative village has potential...but I'll be taking a wait and see attitude
http://www.cityoforlando.net/elected/venues/creative.htm
I'd like to see streetcar's, commuter trains, and light-rail, in addition to bus, BRT and the monorail.
Of more immediate importance I'd like us to have a pro active leadership with regards to our place on the national rail map. We literally straddle EVERY railroad line to enter the state. Even trains coming in from the Pensacola and the west, MUST roll through town to get down into Central Florida.
The US Secretary of Transportation as openly stated he wants Amtrak service between Atlanta and Jacksonville, a city of our size should be able to lobby enough to make that happen. Including the existing system our passenger train network could be easily expanded into:
JAX - NYC via Columbia
JAX - NYC via Charleston
JAX - NYC via Charlotte
JAX - CHICAGO via Birmingham and Memphis
JAX - MIAMI via Orlando
JAX - MIAMI via Daytona Beach
JAX - TAMPA via Orlando
JAX - TAMPA via Ocala (Tampa trains could split with a through section running on to Fort Myers)
JAX - NEW ORLEANS
JAX - Cincinnati via Valdosta and Atlanta (trains could split at Cincinnati for Chicago-Indainapolis/Toledo-Detroit/Columbus-Cleveland)
We've never had a better opportunity then with the new FECI announcements. Obviously Scott is now willing to play trains, so let's get him to fill our wish list too.
You want to know my vision?
I see a river that is very underutilized that could become a great tourist attraction if proper leadership was in place. I see a crosswalk connecting the northbank to the southbank, with something to attract visitors to the southbank. I see the warehouse district with many places to go and exotic shops to see. I see at least 5 more skyscrapers being added downtown, and if downtown policies are changed, it is not just a dream. I see possibly a mini-hotel being added to the landing along with the Hyatt next to it. I see convenient public transportation getting people to places like the airport, the stadium, riverside, etc. I see more green signs along the highways making it easy for visitors to find their way around town. I see a highway with much scenery, going from downtown to the beaches. Who likes to take Atlantic/Beach all the way down? Yeah, you can take 95 to JTB, but how many out-of-towners know that? Maybe do with Arlington Expwy. what they did with 9a/295. Those are only a few of the visions I have.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 24, 2012, 02:14:00 AM
We are all here because we all have one thing in common: we want to see Jacksonville reach its fullest potential. What would it take to get there?
A new population that may actually
want a change.
Or, more specifically, mass migration of the young and educated into Jacksonville.
For better or worse, I'm of the strong opinion that Jacksonville will never reach its full potential with our current population. 95% of the city is just too apathetic, set in their ways, and irreversibly brainwashed/damaged into thinking that we have the city we deserve and that this is the way that "the arm pit of Florida" will always be.
Having spent time in both cities, I truly believe the only real difference between Charlotte and Jacksonville is that Charlotte's citizens genuinely believe that their city is on the rise, and are open and willing to do (and pay) what it takes to reach that next level. Jacksonville has long since accepted and even embraced mediocrity. Most residents seem to want little change, and are willing to pay for even less (I still have no idea how the city approved BJP).
I've never seen a city quite like ours. The inferiority/loser complex (further fueled by local media) permeates absolutely everything. Instead of taking pride in our local strengths, we seek validation through shallow milestones like "Cheesecake Factory comes to town," "7/11 is back!" and "Taylor Swift plays at the Arena." Even our NFL franchise, I hate to say, is something we have kind of used to backdoor our way into national notoriety without having to do the actual groundwork as a city to become relevant.
I've only been here myself since 2003, so I don't know if the shame stems from the paper mill stench, or the national media raking Jacksonville over the coals when we got the Jaguars, or what, but I do know that said inferiority complex runs
deep, and it is -- in my opinion -- the
number one obstacle standing in our way as a city. It's like the girl who gets abused for so long that she truly believes she doesn't deserve better. I don't know how you heal the damaged psyche of an entire city, but I do know that if the population as a whole doesn't believe that Jacksonville is capable and deserving of making that leap, it will never, ever happen.
With Jacksonville's prime location and stunning natural resources, it's actually a minor miracle that Jacksonville hasn't -- purely by accident -- become a top 15 city in the United States. Mother nature has dealt us such an incredible hand that it must have taken some serious work to fuck this thing up so badly.
My number one suggestion:
Jacksonville needs an influx of college-educated young professionals, particularly of the creative class. I know people hate the "young professional" label, but it's that 18-34 demo with no responsibility and money to blow that drives the bars, and the restaurants, and the coffee shops, and the music venues. Fresh sets of eyes who haven't been corrupted by having already done their 25-to-life in the 904.
We need people here who have never felt embarrassed to be Jacksonville residents.
People who don't see the Skyway and automatically think failure, if that makes sense.
People who see downtown as a beautiful place to live and work, not as a graveyard that died with the department stores.
50 years of history says that Jacksonville isn't capable of changing from the inside alone.
We need some outside help that can further identify our strengths, take a long hard look at our weaknesses, and do whatever it takes to drag the set-in-their-way locals along kicking and screaming for the ride, especially when it comes to downtown revitalization (something so historically vital, yet something the majority of the city seems to view as unnecessary, doomed, and a waste of taxpayer dollars).
If I was Mayor Brown or the city council, I would say "to hell with what those people think". I know it's bad, but there needs to be an override. Show these people with the inferior mentality that things can happen. You know what I mean? I believe that's how you change the mentality of the residents. If they start fighting, fight back. It can be done.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 24, 2012, 11:13:17 PM
I'd like to see streetcar's, commuter trains, and light-rail, in addition to bus, BRT and the monorail.
Of more immediate importance I'd like us to have a pro active leadership with regards to our place on the national rail map. We literally straddle EVERY railroad line to enter the state. Even trains coming in from the Pensacola and the west, MUST roll through town to get down into Central Florida.
The US Secretary of Transportation as openly stated he wants Amtrak service between Atlanta and Jacksonville, a city of our size should be able to lobby enough to make that happen. Including the existing system our passenger train network could be easily expanded into:
JAX - NYC via Columbia
JAX - NYC via Charleston
JAX - NYC via Charlotte
JAX - CHICAGO via Birmingham and Memphis
JAX - MIAMI via Orlando
JAX - MIAMI via Daytona Beach
JAX - TAMPA via Orlando
JAX - TAMPA via Ocala (Tampa trains could split with a through section running on to Fort Myers)
JAX - NEW ORLEANS
JAX - Cincinnati via Valdosta and Atlanta (trains could split at Cincinnati for Chicago-Indainapolis/Toledo-Detroit/Columbus-Cleveland)
We've never had a better opportunity then with the new FECI announcements. Obviously Scott is now willing to play trains, so let's get him to fill our wish list too.
Ock, you should seriously consider JTA ED.
And to be more clear on my last post, I mean respond to these people who say, "Oh, we don't want this!" not with a "Too bad, you're getting it anyway," but with a "Yes you do, you just don't know it yet". With a response like that, you're more able to open up their eyes.
18 replies and not one mention of jacksonville's glaring homeless problem? sorry but, if you dont start there, you cant build a solid foundation of anything.
Nomeus, A homeless person participated in the March 17 cleanup of Hogans Creek and we kayaked together. His story was fascinating. He wasn't one of the slackers. Field took some pics.
My vision is that everyone has an opportunity to follow their dream and if the powers that be put in legislative obstacles that only benefit a few especially as it relates to Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative then they are also part of the problem.
How would you like to kayak under the TU? See for yourself the rookery of McCoys Creek? The Hyatt parking lot? Under the Plaza at Berkman?
Lets reclaim access and fun.
Our city could be tops...but the conservative republican leaders have voted time and time again to lower taxes on everything...now theres no money for anyting..but that fact is part of the republican plan..defund anything public..I would love a jax without the...XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Moderator Note: This bias and discrimination against certain elements of our population will not be tolerated, continued abuse may result in banning. OCK!
Some great ideas! Anti Redneck: love the mini-hotel and pedestrian bridge connecting downtown/Southbank. A lot of you guys on here talk about kayaking. I've never understood why Jax does not promote/invest in recreational & outdoors-y improvements. The setting (river & beach) and weather is perfect. If you want to attract the 18-34 young professional set invest in bike lanes, jogging trails, simpler/better transit options. Doesn't seem that hard (or expensive) if you start with simple stuff like bike lanes. I've been downtown, and though the interstate gets jammed, outside of a Sunday afternoon on gameday, the surface streets are not that busy. If Philadelphia can take away downtown car lanes, I know Jax can. If you made it easy and enjoyable to get from Riverside/Avondale/Murray Hill & San Marco to downtown via bike or on foot those neighborhoods would be much more attractive than they already are. I know there are probably people that already bike downtown, but it's got to be easier for the novice (i.e., bike lanes, maybe separated). Everyone doesn't bike, I know. I'm an extreme amateur...literally use a hybrid bike to commute only. But just seeing streets that have dedicated bike lanes or wide sidewalks makes me happy. I can't be the only one.
I don't understand why Ock's Amtrak ideas don't move forward. Is this something that could happen with or without Jacksonville political support? It seems like it would, given Jax's strategic location in terms of rail lines.
Quote from: blandman on March 25, 2012, 09:40:01 AM
I don't understand why Ock's Amtrak ideas don't move forward. Is this something that could happen with or without Jacksonville political support? It seems like it would, given Jax's strategic location in terms of rail lines.
Hey blandman, Virtually everything you see happening on the new FECI and SE Florida corridor was born in those communities, primarily Stuart, Florida, and their Treasure Coast Planning Council. Dr. Delaney, literally got the attention of Amtrak, Washington DC, and in quick succession Miami, Orlando, Governor Scott and ultimately over 100 towns, cities and community groups, coordinated them into a powerful movement. In fact the Secretary of Transportation has stated there has NEVER been a rail passenger route with this much support in history.
Certainly any one of the prospective train routes I outlined could come about from Washington DC., but with a decidedly anti-rail crowd running congress, don't expect it. Imagine how much more effective we would be if Dr Delaney like focus and support was generated from our planning councils. Jacksonville is a big dog.
This brings me to what it would mean to Jacksonville. First, we would have to move rail operations back downtown and create a terminal with sufficient yard trackage to handle all of the switching that would result. Such a terminal hub would be a microcosm of Atlanta or Chicago's airports. Hundreds of direct and likely a thousand or more spin off permanent jobs would be created downtown.
You've no doubt seen the trucks that run food out to the aircraft at the airport? Consider on a train, all of that food is prepared to order and cooked on board. A dining car commissary, linen services, waste management, fuel, lubricants, floral, farm market, gifts, cleaning services, car wash... etc... etc... Championing a real national level campaign would guarantee that we are the long-distance railroad hub of the southeast.
So my vision would be a dynamic activity center running 24/7 anchoring the west side of downtown. We COULD make it happen.
Take this to city hall?
CHIRP
CHIRP
Quote from: blandman on March 25, 2012, 09:40:01 AM
Some great ideas! Anti Redneck: love the mini-hotel and pedestrian bridge connecting downtown/Southbank. A lot of you guys on here talk about kayaking. I've never understood why Jax does not promote/invest in recreational & outdoors-y improvements. The setting (river & beach) and weather is perfect.
I agree. Jax is, or should be, a sportsman's paradise. There are so many options, especially where water is concerned.
I've always thought a pedestrian bridge across the river, linking San Marco and Riverside would be a great idea. Assuming it is feasible. I think developing some sort of comprehensive bike path system linking Riverside (and Avondale) through downtown and onto the southbank makes sense, too.
Fuller Warren anyone? Where are the jogging and bike clubs?
(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/3A/AF12392079DD33B9528960FD67D4A8.jpg)
When City Hall and FDOT tells you "IT CAN'T BE DONE", show them this image of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge in D.C., oh, and guess what? Yeah! It's on I-95!
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 25, 2012, 11:40:54 AM
Fuller Warren anyone? Where are the jogging and bike clubs?
(http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/3A/AF12392079DD33B9528960FD67D4A8.jpg)
When City Hall and FDOT tells you "IT CAN'T BE DONE", show them this image of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge in D.C., oh, and guess what? Yeah! It's on I-95!
+1
QuoteFor better or worse, I'm of the strong opinion that Jacksonville will never reach its full potential with our current population. 95% of the city is just too apathetic, set in their ways, and irreversibly brainwashed/damaged into thinking that we have the city we deserve and that this is the way that "the arm pit of Florida" will always be.
... Jacksonville has long since accepted and even embraced mediocrity. Most residents seem to want little change, and are willing to pay for even less (I still have no idea how the city approved BJP).
I've never seen a city quite like ours. The inferiority/loser complex (further fueled by local media) permeates absolutely everything. Instead of taking pride in our local strengths, we seek validation through shallow milestones like "Cheesecake Factory comes to town," "7/11 is back!" and "Taylor Swift plays at the Arena." Even our NFL franchise, I hate to say, is something we have kind of used to backdoor our way into national notoriety without having to do the actual groundwork as a city to become relevant.
Amen to all that. In the same vein see the lead editorial in today's T-U about the needs of our library system and even the fairly new main library. I am in total agreement that it says a lot about the city when you see a so much hoopla about a convenience chain coming back to town. Oh yeah, that'll improve the quality of life here - like there are not enough Gates, Kangaroos, Dailey's, etc.
I'm not sure I totally agree with our having an inferiority complex or that we embrace mediocrity. What I do believe is probably close: Jacksonville has too small a base of wealth or near-wealth for a city it's size. There is too big a base of lower middle class and lower class for us to be able to afford what would improve our quality of life - like a really good public school system. Because of that, yes, taxes cannot be raised because doing so would really hurt too many residents. Others might grumble but can and would pay up. I hasten to add that being in the lower middle class or less is not shameful and anyone who wants to and does do their job well - even if it's sweeping streets - is well entitled to a sense of pride.
Think about it. Where in town,
other than on or near the river, is there a sizable enclave of wealth or near-wealth? Not in Arlington which is a huge area; not on the westside, another huge area; not on the north side. The population on or near the river just isn't that large compared to the whole.
(Thinking about taxes led me to think about "save our homes," portability and other tax breaks. Who benefit from that the most? The wealthy who have lived in expensive homes for years but pay taxes based on values many years past. The Property Appraiser doesn't even add the allowable 3% a year very often. I'm sure my real estate taxes are close to what is paid by riverfront homeowners close by.)
But the question was what is our vision. Mine is "status quo" unless we improve the school system and begin attracting businesses that will bring in higher paid employees with interests beyond rock concerts, watching cars drive fast and make left-hand turns, and so on. But too many of the powers that be prefer to lay a free almost $300K on one of their own than to make better use of that kind of money - like buying, say, 50,000 new books or computers for the libraries, sprucing up a park, decent lighting downtown, and so on.
I would like to see this group focus on one think in our city to improve and become an advocate for it. Moderator, come up with a list and take votes.
Estimated median household income in 2009: $46,312 (it was $40,316 in 2000)
Jacksonville: $46,312
Florida: $44,736
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Jacksonville-Florida.html#ixzz1q9G6zkGK
It would appear that a citizen of Jacksonville is actually somewhat richer then in most Florida cities.
So why do we have so many tiny cracker box homes? Maybe because of our weather, backyards seem to be filled with campers, fancy BBQ pits, pools, or boats on trailers. You wouldn't see these things in such abundance in Omaha.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 25, 2012, 12:58:21 PM
Estimated median household income in 2009: $46,312 (it was $40,316 in 2000)
Jacksonville: $46,312
Florida: $44,736
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Jacksonville-Florida.html#ixzz1q9G6zkGK
It would appear that a citizen of Jacksonville is actually somewhat richer then in most Florida cities.
So why do we have so many tiny cracker box homes? Maybe because of our weather, backyards seem to be filled with campers, fancy BBQ pits, pools, or boats on trailers. You wouldn't see these things in such abundance in Omaha.
I agree with your sentiment re: cracker box homes and backyards. Take my father for example. Without sounding like a complete snob/asshole, the man makes over 2-3x what the Jacksonville median household income in. But, if you drove by his house, you'd think the man was was living in a 1 bedroom/$700 a month shotgun house. His rationale: he'd rather a backyard, deck, BBQ, fire pit, etc, where he can enjoy the Florida weather and friends/family than have a big and pretentious home. I can't blame him. You see this sentiment a lot at the Beaches, and to a certain extent, in Avondale...
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 25, 2012, 12:34:24 PM
QuoteFor better or worse, I'm of the strong opinion that Jacksonville will never reach its full potential with our current population. 95% of the city is just too apathetic, set in their ways, and irreversibly brainwashed/damaged into thinking that we have the city we deserve and that this is the way that "the arm pit of Florida" will always be.
... Jacksonville has long since accepted and even embraced mediocrity. Most residents seem to want little change, and are willing to pay for even less (I still have no idea how the city approved BJP).
I've never seen a city quite like ours. The inferiority/loser complex (further fueled by local media) permeates absolutely everything. Instead of taking pride in our local strengths, we seek validation through shallow milestones like "Cheesecake Factory comes to town," "7/11 is back!" and "Taylor Swift plays at the Arena." Even our NFL franchise, I hate to say, is something we have kind of used to backdoor our way into national notoriety without having to do the actual groundwork as a city to become relevant.
Amen to all that. In the same vein see the lead editorial in today's T-U about the needs of our library system and even the fairly new main library. I am in total agreement that it says a lot about the city when you see a so much hoopla about a convenience chain coming back to town. Oh yeah, that'll improve the quality of life here - like there are not enough Gates, Kangaroos, Dailey's, etc.
I'm not sure I totally agree with our having an inferiority complex or that we embrace mediocrity. What I do believe is probably close: Jacksonville has too small a base of wealth or near-wealth for a city it's size. There is too big a base of lower middle class and lower class for us to be able to afford what would improve our quality of life - like a really good public school system. Because of that, yes, taxes cannot be raised because doing so would really hurt too many residents. Others might grumble but can and would pay up. I hasten to add that being in the lower middle class or less is not shameful and anyone who wants to and does do their job well - even if it's sweeping streets - is well entitled to a sense of pride.
Think about it. Where in town, other than on or near the river, is there a sizable enclave of wealth or near-wealth? Not in Arlington which is a huge area; not on the westside, another huge area; not on the north side. The population on or near the river just isn't that large compared to the whole.
(Thinking about taxes led me to think about "save our homes," portability and other tax breaks. Who benefit from that the most? The wealthy who have lived in expensive homes for years but pay taxes based on values many years past. The Property Appraiser doesn't even add the allowable 3% a year very often. I'm sure my real estate taxes are close to what is paid by riverfront homeowners close by.)
But the question was what is our vision. Mine is "status quo" unless we improve the school system and begin attracting businesses that will bring in higher paid employees with interests beyond rock concerts, watching cars drive fast and make left-hand turns, and so on. But too many of the powers that be prefer to lay a free almost $300K on one of their own than to make better use of that kind of money - like buying, say, 50,000 new books or computers for the libraries, sprucing up a park, decent lighting downtown, and so on.
I would like to see this group focus on one think in our city to improve and become an advocate for it. Moderator, come up with a list and take votes.
Concurred! Let's take the votes. Time to lose the inferiority image. The saps and Hoganites have ran this city long enough. Think about it, the place being driven into the ground started somewhere. Building it back up could start here and should start now.
The biggest symbol of the problem to me is that SJTC seems to be the most popular area to live and visit in the area. The 2nd biggest symbol is that the number 3 story on google news for Jacksonville is "Carrabas to open new location in Orange Park".
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 25, 2012, 12:34:24 PM
QuoteFor better or worse, I'm of the strong opinion that Jacksonville will never reach its full potential with our current population. 95% of the city is just too apathetic, set in their ways, and irreversibly brainwashed/damaged into thinking that we have the city we deserve and that this is the way that "the arm pit of Florida" will always be.
... Jacksonville has long since accepted and even embraced mediocrity. Most residents seem to want little change, and are willing to pay for even less (I still have no idea how the city approved BJP).
I've never seen a city quite like ours. The inferiority/loser complex (further fueled by local media) permeates absolutely everything. Instead of taking pride in our local strengths, we seek validation through shallow milestones like "Cheesecake Factory comes to town," "7/11 is back!" and "Taylor Swift plays at the Arena." Even our NFL franchise, I hate to say, is something we have kind of used to backdoor our way into national notoriety without having to do the actual groundwork as a city to become relevant.
Amen to all that. In the same vein see the lead editorial in today's T-U about the needs of our library system and even the fairly new main library. I am in total agreement that it says a lot about the city when you see a so much hoopla about a convenience chain coming back to town. Oh yeah, that'll improve the quality of life here - like there are not enough Gates, Kangaroos, Dailey's, etc.
I'm not sure I totally agree with our having an inferiority complex or that we embrace mediocrity. What I do believe is probably close: Jacksonville has too small a base of wealth or near-wealth for a city it's size. There is too big a base of lower middle class and lower class for us to be able to afford what would improve our quality of life - like a really good public school system. Because of that, yes, taxes cannot be raised because doing so would really hurt too many residents. Others might grumble but can and would pay up. I hasten to add that being in the lower middle class or less is not shameful and anyone who wants to and does do their job well - even if it's sweeping streets - is well entitled to a sense of pride.
Think about it. Where in town, other than on or near the river, is there a sizable enclave of wealth or near-wealth? Not in Arlington which is a huge area; not on the westside, another huge area; not on the north side. The population on or near the river just isn't that large compared to the whole.
(Thinking about taxes led me to think about "save our homes," portability and other tax breaks. Who benefit from that the most? The wealthy who have lived in expensive homes for years but pay taxes based on values many years past. The Property Appraiser doesn't even add the allowable 3% a year very often. I'm sure my real estate taxes are close to what is paid by riverfront homeowners close by.)
But the question was what is our vision. Mine is "status quo" unless we improve the school system and begin attracting businesses that will bring in higher paid employees with interests beyond rock concerts, watching cars drive fast and make left-hand turns, and so on. But too many of the powers that be prefer to lay a free almost $300K on one of their own than to make better use of that kind of money - like buying, say, 50,000 new books or computers for the libraries, sprucing up a park, decent lighting downtown, and so on.
I would like to see this group focus on one think in our city to improve and become an advocate for it. Moderator, come up with a list and take votes.
Concurred! Let's take the votes. Time to lose the inferiority image. The saps and Hoganites have ran this city long enough. Think about it, the place being driven into the ground started somewhere. Building it back up could start here and should start now.
It's simple, Jacksonville will succeed once it actually does what conservatives always say - work.
Jacksonville has been in at the other hand of the handout platter for a long time. So long that the people have forgotten how to work to obtain things. It, as a city are like those welfare queens people in the media always bash about. The Navy, the highways, the companies - most of them are in Jacksonville because of what mother nature and the federal government gave it - not because of anything the population did.
The only major thing the as a population has done so far was beg for them to come to Jacksonville.
In what way does our population deserve to have a nuclear aircraft carrier? Is it because of a strong nuclear industry? Is it because of a strong shipbuilding industry? Is it because the large amount of nuclear scientists? Why does Jacksonville deserve a nuclear aircraft carrier other than the fact Mother Nature put the ocean next to it?
A 7-11 or a Cheesecake Factory or a NFL won't save it. Jacksonville will succeed when it as a city will stop depending so much on others and start doing things for themselves!
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 25, 2012, 12:58:21 PM
Estimated median household income in 2009: $46,312 (it was $40,316 in 2000)
Jacksonville: $46,312
Florida: $44,736
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Jacksonville-Florida.html#ixzz1q9G6zkGK
It would appear that a citizen of Jacksonville is actually somewhat richer then in most Florida cities.
So why do we have so many tiny cracker box homes? Maybe because of our weather, backyards seem to be filled with campers, fancy BBQ pits, pools, or boats on trailers. You wouldn't see these things in such abundance in Omaha.
Yes, I was going to say this. Florida in general - including Miami - is less wealthy than some other parts of the country, especially the Northeast. However, we have a substantially lower cost of living than many other places, and no state income tax.
Within Florida, the Jacksonville area holds up pretty well, especially when you factor in the surrounding suburban counties.
I think far and away our greatest curse is the inferiority complex. People here are often very down about the city, and there's a pervasive belief that things that work elsewhere won't work or happen here, because we're just different and, well, inferior. You hear this even from people who basically want to help and see the city improve.
Everything else aside, I believe that things improve dramatically when you get a culture of folks who are truly engaged and active and involved. People who really care about their neighborhood and are willing to do something about it. I think we're seeing this more and more in our core neighborhoods, and to me that's a very positive sign for the future.
KenFSU, you brought up a great point. The city needs to expand the young demographic (25 to 34 year olds especially).
The New York Times article linked below is pretty good (it's 2006 but still good).
I liked the referencing in the article to the importance of internships.
So I wonder if there is a way for the city to incentivize / encourage local businesses to increase their number of college / graduate school targeted internships? Heck, the city could help organize and find centralized locations for summer housing for interns coming into town from outside universities. Network, have a good time in Jacksonville, be around other energetic young people...might pay off.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/25/us/25young.html?pagewanted=all
This is a really good question...
Some places think they're big time, when they kinda aren't. I don't consider SJTC a "destination", as it appears many do. If anything, I consider it a chance to get in a car accident every time I go out there. Day by day, River City Marketplace is catching up. But I digress...
I'd like to see a moratorium on road construction, so that we could stop knocking down trees to put up more tract housing and strip malls, adding to an ever-growing road construction budget, and a tax base that can barely keep up.
Since the city buses can't make it into most residential areas--allegedly--I'd like to see those little mini buses do that. Drop the folks off at substations that currently don't even exist, instead of making Rosa Parks the ONLY transfer station.
I'd like to see an END to JTA as we know it. In it's current form, it is an incompentent mutant of an Authority. Whoever in that organization is of any worth, is being overhadowed by a whole lotta suck.
I'd like to see heritage streetcars in the neighborhoods surrounding the Core, painted either Teal or Black. Commuter rail to connected the regions from the airport to the Riverfront to the Beaches and everywhere in between.
The Prime Osborn turned back into a Transportation Hub. Everything decked out in a retro, WWII-era style.
Since that would mean no Convention Center, that the hotels we have in place now take up the slack in the meantime. Our Convention business isn't strong enough to warrant a new one yet, IMO, and should help the hotels make a few pesos.
I do like the idea of "Riverfront" being sort of an interchangeable name with "Downtown".
Public art along the Riverwalk, something sort of like what they have along the San Diego Bay.
I'd like to see Shad Khan and Mark Lamping inundate us with so much Jags advertising that it makes people sick, including wrapping the Skyway trains. I'd like to see the Skyway go to the Sports Complex. It would be nice if each station actually had kiosks/food options.
Stop filtering everyone out of Downtown on gamedays. If we had a funtioning train system, we wouldn't need to use buses and cops to do it anyway.
Riverboats, going up and down the St. John's. Some of them could be gambling boats; others, simply floating restaurants, day cruises, whatever.
I just googled regatta, so apparently we have one. Would be nice if it were advertised. Jet ski races in front of the Landing?
I thought it'd be cool if one street Downtown was peppered with small theaters, complete with old-style marquees. Each of them could play one or two movies. An AMC broken down into several smaller parts, so to speak...They could also host small-venue concerts.
How about a yearly, local music festival? Do we have one of those? I don't mean Jazz Fest; I mean for local rock bands and singers and whatnot. A really cheap affair, in Metro Park or something, possibly sponsored by the local breweries that are popping up...
Become one of America's medical epicenters, like Rick Mullaney was talking about when he was running for mayor.
The Bob Hayes Invitational needs to be moved to a larger venue. For its ability to pull such a high level of talent from across the state the way it does, it should be such a big deal locally at this point, it should be even a bigger deal than it currently is. But instead it's cramped onto the Raines campus where parking is a nightmare, the bleachers look like a tent city, and the concession stands are total chaos. I was thinking UNF.
Sort of off-subject, but not really...I want the FCAT to go away. It's clearly done more harm than good, as kids are graduating without even being able to write a coherent sentence.
I'd like to see the City take some of Ennis's FREE advice on increasing Downtown foot traffic.
That's all I can come up with right now...
The love being showered on 7-Eleven's return, and people getting all gooey inside over every little thing, is simply an indication that people are desperate to cling to "something" that validates the city's worth, IMO. It's just a little misguided since there seems to have been a concerted effort to bury everything that once made the City great.
Quote from: kells904 on March 25, 2012, 05:03:06 PM
This is a really good question...
Some places think they're big time, when they kinda aren't. I don't consider SJTC a "destination", as it appears many do. If anything, I consider it a chance to get in a car accident every time I go out there. Day by day, River City Marketplace is catching up. But I digress...
I'd like to see a moratorium on road construction, so that we could stop knocking down trees to put up more tract housing and strip malls, adding to an ever-growing road construction budget, and a tax base that can barely keep up.
Since the city buses can't make it into most residential areas--allegedly--I'd like to see those little mini buses do that. Drop the folks off at substations that currently don't even exist, instead of making Rosa Parks the ONLY transfer station.
I'd like to see an END to JTA as we know it. In it's current form, it is an incompentent mutant of an Authority. Whoever in that organization is of any worth, is being overhadowed by a whole lotta suck.
I'd like to see heritage streetcars in the neighborhoods surrounding the Core, painted either Teal or Black. Commuter rail to connected the regions from the airport to the Riverfront to the Beaches and everywhere in between.
The Prime Osborn turned back into a Transportation Hub. Everything decked out in a retro, WWII-era style.
Since that would mean no Convention Center, that the hotels we have in place now take up the slack in the meantime. Our Convention business isn't strong enough to warrant a new one yet, IMO, and should help the hotels make a few pesos.
I do like the idea of "Riverfront" being sort of an interchangeable name with "Downtown".
Public art along the Riverwalk, something sort of like what they have along the San Diego Bay.
I'd like to see Shad Khan and Mark Lamping inundate us with so much Jags advertising that it makes people sick, including wrapping the Skyway trains. I'd like to see the Skyway go to the Sports Complex. It would be nice if each station actually had kiosks/food options.
Stop filtering everyone out of Downtown on gamedays. If we had a funtioning train system, we wouldn't need to use buses and cops to do it anyway.
Riverboats, going up and down the St. John's. Some of them could be gambling boats; others, simply floating restaurants, day cruises, whatever.
I just googled regatta, so apparently we have one. Would be nice if it were advertised. Jet ski races in front of the Landing?
I thought it'd be cool if one street Downtown was peppered with small theaters, complete with old-style marquees. Each of them could play one or two movies. An AMC broken down into several smaller parts, so to speak...They could also host small-venue concerts.
How about a yearly, local music festival? Do we have one of those? I don't mean Jazz Fest; I mean for local rock bands and singers and whatnot. A really cheap affair, in Metro Park or something, possibly sponsored by the local breweries that are popping up...
Become one of America's medical epicenters, like Rick Mullaney was talking about when he was running for mayor.
The Bob Hayes Invitational needs to be moved to a larger venue. For its ability to pull such a high level of talent from across the state the way it does, it should be such a big deal locally at this point, it should be even a bigger deal than it currently is. But instead it's cramped onto the Raines campus where parking is a nightmare, the bleachers look like a tent city, and the concession stands are total chaos. I was thinking UNF.
Sort of off-subject, but not really...I want the FCAT to go away. It's clearly done more harm than good, as kids are graduating without even being able to write a coherent sentence.
I'd like to see the City take some of Ennis's FREE advice on increasing Downtown foot traffic.
That's all I can come up with right now...
The love being showered on 7-Eleven's return, and people getting all gooey inside over every little thing, is simply an indication that people are desperate to cling to "something" that validates the city's worth, IMO. It's just a little misguided since there seems to have been a concerted effort to bury everything that once made the City great.
I don't consider SJTC a destination either. Not a bad place to go, though. I didn't think it would kill Regency and the Avenues, though. If anything, I thought it would just add to Jacksonville's shopping scene. If I had the money, I would buy Regency Square Mall and I would totally renovate it to be 3 stories high with an ice skating rink in the middle, an indoor bike ramp/skate ramp, and whatever stores you could think of. Add a parking garage to it, with a crosswalk that stretches from over Atlantic Blvd. to Arlington Expwy., going right through the mall itself, and ending at AMC. That'll give SJTC some competition!
I think excessive road construction goes to far and that money can be put toward better things, but I would like to see more convenient access to get around the city. We have enough strip malls and I cringe when I hear that they're building another strip mall. Build something worth building.
I wouldn't mind over-advertising on the Jags. Yes, build more terminals with trains. Paint more teal and black. Hell, even pictures of Lynyrd Skynyrd on some of the downtown buildings and Jaguars on the other. Give people reasons to celebrate.
Jacksonville used to have a lot of good local bands back in the day. I don't know if I just stopped following or if the scene really did die out. I used to see shows at Jack Rabbit's and Club 5 all the time. Looking back, those were some good times.
Jet ski races in front of the landing? My thoughts exactly! I'm glad someone else sees what I see! I would totally participate in something like that!
And yes! Stop celebrating over stupid things.
I mean, come on. Really? The city gets excited over 7-11??? Stuff like that makes me ashamed to be from here. "Ooh, we're getting a Cheesecake Factory/P.F. Chang's/Dave & Buster's!" "Ooh, 7-11 is coming back! That means Jacksonville really is a city!" Sounds retarded doesn't it?
Who else is with me?
All my friends (military, college degrees, 23-34), spend most of their time at Tinseltown or SJTC. If I didn't drag them out to the urban neighborhoods, they would be otherwise unaware. "Taverna in San Marco" I say. "San Marco? Where's that?" they say.
I think that since Jacksonville doesn't advertise its uniqueness, aside from the kinds of people that frequent this and similar websites, transient residents like me and my friends will stick to stuff they know (stuff that's the same everywhere).
I'm in that age range. I spend a lot of my free time in other cities experiencing amenities I wish Jax had before I get to old to enjoy them. I can't tell you the last time I've been to Tinseltown or SJTC. Every major city has multiple SJTCs. What makes Jax's so special?
Quote from: JFman00 on March 25, 2012, 06:36:11 PM
All my friends (military, college degrees, 23-34), spend most of their time at Tinseltown or SJTC. If I didn't drag them out to the urban neighborhoods, they would be otherwise unaware. "Taverna in San Marco" I say. "San Marco? Where's that?" they say.
I think that since Jacksonville doesn't advertise its uniqueness, aside from the kinds of people that frequent this and similar websites, transient residents like me and my friends will stick to stuff they know (stuff that's the same everywhere).
You'd be surprised at how many students in Jax have never heard of San Marco, Avondale, Riverside, 5 Points after having spent almost a full academic year here. Seriously! 9/10 students I've met had to be introduced to these places (and of course, now they're going regularly). Moreover, 9/10 students, before being introduced, literally thought SJTC, the Southside, Baymeadows, was Jacksonville! People spoke of a "downtown" or "riverfront" like it was a myth.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 25, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
I'm in that age range. I spend a lot of my free time in other cities experiencing amenities I wish Jax had before I get to old to enjoy them. I can't tell you the last time I've been to Tinseltown or SJTC. Every major city has multiple SJTCs. What makes Jax's so special?
+1
Quote from: thelakelander on March 25, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
I'm in that age range. I spend a lot of my free time in other cities experiencing amenities I wish Jax had before I get to old to enjoy them. I can't tell you the last time I've been to Tinseltown or SJTC. Every major city has multiple SJTCs. What makes Jax's so special?
Agreed. Have no idea what makes SJTC so great. Orlando has mulitple SJTC's, as do most cities of similar populations. Boring.
Just spent the weekend in Portland, Maine. Awesome restaurant scene, all very unique places. Very few chains...at least downtown. Some observations/comparisons to Jacksonville from my short stay: parking was a bit of a hassle, but found street parking after a few laps all three days...not scientific, but I would guess Jax has more parking parages. Public transportation was mediocre: no light rail/street car, plenty of buses. No high rise apartment/condo buildings. No major university downtown...University of Southern Maine is suburban and not as big as UNF. Weather was great, but unusual for the time of year...I'm sure it was nicer in Jax. My rambling point: It had no specific "built-in" advantage over Jacksonville, but seemed to thrive. It felt authentic. That authenticity exists in Jax, but it's sometimes hard to find.
^ If anything, Jacksonville should have the built-in advantage you speak of. Situated at the crosshairs of 95 and I-10, easy access to rivers, lakes, ocean, springs. Quick drives to everything from Atlanta to Miami to Savannah and Orlando. A historic center (Avondale) that mirrors parts of a Charleston or Savannah-esque town.
Quote from: blandman on March 25, 2012, 08:04:26 PM
Just spent the weekend in Portland, Maine. Awesome restaurant scene, all very unique places. Very few chains...at least downtown. Some observations/comparisons to Jacksonville from my short stay: parking was a bit of a hassle, but found street parking after a few laps all three days...not scientific, but I would guess Jax has more parking parages. Public transportation was mediocre: no light rail/street car, plenty of buses. No high rise apartment/condo buildings. No major university downtown...University of Southern Maine is suburban and not as big as UNF. Weather was great, but unusual for the time of year...I'm sure it was nicer in Jax. My rambling point: It had no specific "built-in" advantage over Jacksonville, but seemed to thrive. It felt authentic. That authenticity exists in Jax, but it's sometimes hard to find.
I spent some time in Portland a few years ago. One of the authentic things I loved about that city was its working waterfront in the Old Port District.
A lot of people I hear from keep saying the same thing. Jacksonville is a boring city, that it just keeps getting more and more dead. Can't say I disagree. Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
It seems to me that the main complaint of a lot of people on this forum is that there are not enough people in Jacksonville like the people on this forum.
Every time I come to town though, I see plenty of people supporting the "cool" businesses around town. Went to Kickback's last year to watch a Phillies game (my in-laws don't even get basic cable...i.e., ESPN!!!) and it was packed (not many Phillies fans, though). Went to The French Pantry last year when I was working in Jax...packed at lunch in the middle of the week. Went to Bold City on a Saturday the weekend of the Eagles/Jags game last year...good crowd. Went to Bold Bean this last December during a weekday morning...plenty of folks. The beer scene is getting stronger every year.
The progress just seems incredibly slow, and the marketing of Jacksonville appears non-existent. I seriously cannot believe how cheap you can get a 60-70 year old 1,000 sqft bungalow in a very walkable neighborhood in Jacksonville. Young people would be flocking to Jacksonville if there were somewhere to work. It is almost never mentioned in a positive light in the national media (Super Bowl = 7+ years ago). Sadly, I don't know what needs to be done to speed things up, but I have hope!
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: kells904 on March 25, 2012, 05:03:06 PM
This is a really good question...
Some places think they're big time, when they kinda aren't. I don't consider SJTC a "destination", as it appears many do. If anything, I consider it a chance to get in a car accident every time I go out there. Day by day, River City Marketplace is catching up. But I digress...
I'd like to see a moratorium on road construction, so that we could stop knocking down trees to put up more tract housing and strip malls, adding to an ever-growing road construction budget, and a tax base that can barely keep up.
Since the city buses can't make it into most residential areas--allegedly--I'd like to see those little mini buses do that. Drop the folks off at substations that currently don't even exist, instead of making Rosa Parks the ONLY transfer station.
I'd like to see an END to JTA as we know it. In it's current form, it is an incompentent mutant of an Authority. Whoever in that organization is of any worth, is being overhadowed by a whole lotta suck.
I'd like to see heritage streetcars in the neighborhoods surrounding the Core, painted either Teal or Black. Commuter rail to connected the regions from the airport to the Riverfront to the Beaches and everywhere in between.
The Prime Osborn turned back into a Transportation Hub. Everything decked out in a retro, WWII-era style.
Since that would mean no Convention Center, that the hotels we have in place now take up the slack in the meantime. Our Convention business isn't strong enough to warrant a new one yet, IMO, and should help the hotels make a few pesos.
I do like the idea of "Riverfront" being sort of an interchangeable name with "Downtown".
Public art along the Riverwalk, something sort of like what they have along the San Diego Bay.
I'd like to see Shad Khan and Mark Lamping inundate us with so much Jags advertising that it makes people sick, including wrapping the Skyway trains. I'd like to see the Skyway go to the Sports Complex. It would be nice if each station actually had kiosks/food options.
Stop filtering everyone out of Downtown on gamedays. If we had a funtioning train system, we wouldn't need to use buses and cops to do it anyway.
Riverboats, going up and down the St. John's. Some of them could be gambling boats; others, simply floating restaurants, day cruises, whatever.
I just googled regatta, so apparently we have one. Would be nice if it were advertised. Jet ski races in front of the Landing?
I thought it'd be cool if one street Downtown was peppered with small theaters, complete with old-style marquees. Each of them could play one or two movies. An AMC broken down into several smaller parts, so to speak...They could also host small-venue concerts.
How about a yearly, local music festival? Do we have one of those? I don't mean Jazz Fest; I mean for local rock bands and singers and whatnot. A really cheap affair, in Metro Park or something, possibly sponsored by the local breweries that are popping up...
Become one of America's medical epicenters, like Rick Mullaney was talking about when he was running for mayor.
The Bob Hayes Invitational needs to be moved to a larger venue. For its ability to pull such a high level of talent from across the state the way it does, it should be such a big deal locally at this point, it should be even a bigger deal than it currently is. But instead it's cramped onto the Raines campus where parking is a nightmare, the bleachers look like a tent city, and the concession stands are total chaos. I was thinking UNF.
Sort of off-subject, but not really...I want the FCAT to go away. It's clearly done more harm than good, as kids are graduating without even being able to write a coherent sentence.
I'd like to see the City take some of Ennis's FREE advice on increasing Downtown foot traffic.
That's all I can come up with right now...
The love being showered on 7-Eleven's return, and people getting all gooey inside over every little thing, is simply an indication that people are desperate to cling to "something" that validates the city's worth, IMO. It's just a little misguided since there seems to have been a concerted effort to bury everything that once made the City great.
I don't consider SJTC a destination either. Not a bad place to go, though. I didn't think it would kill Regency and the Avenues, though. If anything, I thought it would just add to Jacksonville's shopping scene. If I had the money, I would buy Regency Square Mall and I would totally renovate it to be 3 stories high with an ice skating rink in the middle, an indoor bike ramp/skate ramp, and whatever stores you could think of. Add a parking garage to it, with a crosswalk that stretches from over Atlantic Blvd. to Arlington Expwy., going right through the mall itself, and ending at AMC. That'll give SJTC some competition!
I think excessive road construction goes to far and that money can be put toward better things, but I would like to see more convenient access to get around the city. We have enough strip malls and I cringe when I hear that they're building another strip mall. Build something worth building.
I wouldn't mind over-advertising on the Jags. Yes, build more terminals with trains. Paint more teal and black. Hell, even pictures of Lynyrd Skynyrd on some of the downtown buildings and Jaguars on the other. Give people reasons to celebrate.
Jacksonville used to have a lot of good local bands back in the day. I don't know if I just stopped following or if the scene really did die out. I used to see shows at Jack Rabbit's and Club 5 all the time. Looking back, those were some good times.
Jet ski races in front of the landing? My thoughts exactly! I'm glad someone else sees what I see! I would totally participate in something like that!
And yes! Stop celebrating over stupid things.
I mean, come on. Really? The city gets excited over 7-11??? Stuff like that makes me ashamed to be from here. "Ooh, we're getting a Cheesecake Factory/P.F. Chang's/Dave & Buster's!" "Ooh, 7-11 is coming back! That means Jacksonville really is a city!" Sounds retarded doesn't it?
Who else is with me?
kells, Anti R
I'm with you both. Would either of you like to meet?
It was another gut wrenching day to be Downtown and trying to access our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative. I go to the meetings and its amazing what is being kept from the Public.
The list continues to grow.
Just a brief observation.
I put in at Sidney Gefin Park in a kayak. I look at the empty floating dock at RAM which can only be used on Sat. I continue by the private docks. (I can understand that)
But after my paddle I go and look at Bay St. Pier Park (Shipyards/Landmar) Jacksonville. Wake up. This spot should be rocking right now. What is everyone afraid of? Go and look for yourself.
Then I go to the Maxwell house dredge.
Then I go down to Metroploitan Park. Remember its closed on the weekends. The number of people that I saw that would pull up in their cars get out and try to figure out how they can get to the river. It is truly gut wrenching to watch.
Legislation is the dialogue.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
A lot of people I hear from keep saying the same thing. Jacksonville is a boring city, that it just keeps getting more and more dead. Can't say I disagree. Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
I think there is a lot going on, just open Folio Weekly or look on here, it's just not immediately obvious what it is or where. Also, we are the largest city by land area in the continguous U.S., and there is something about the geography that just isn't handled right to create the right sense of community and place. Basically you have to find what strip mall to go to, and that strip mall can be four miles away from your home in any direction.
Quote from: blandman on March 25, 2012, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
It seems to me that the main complaint of a lot of people on this forum is that there are not enough people in Jacksonville like the people on this forum.
Every time I come to town though, I see plenty of people supporting the "cool" businesses around town. Went to Kickback's last year to watch a Phillies game (my in-laws don't even get basic cable...i.e., ESPN!!!) and it was packed (not many Phillies fans, though). Went to The French Pantry last year when I was working in Jax...packed at lunch in the middle of the week. Went to Bold City on a Saturday the weekend of the Eagles/Jags game last year...good crowd. Went to Bold Bean this last December during a weekday morning...plenty of folks. The beer scene is getting stronger every year.
The progress just seems incredibly slow, and the marketing of Jacksonville appears non-existent. I seriously cannot believe how cheap you can get a 60-70 year old 1,000 sqft bungalow in a very walkable neighborhood in Jacksonville. Young people would be flocking to Jacksonville if there were somewhere to work. It is almost never mentioned in a positive light in the national media (Super Bowl = 7+ years ago). Sadly, I don't know what needs to be done to speed things up, but I have hope!
QuoteYoung people would be flocking to Jacksonville if there were somewhere to work.
All the ideas of this thread is fun but everything comes down to this. Where are they going to work?
Quote from: cityimrov on March 25, 2012, 10:56:18 PM
All the ideas of this thread is fun but everything comes down to this. Where are they going to work?
Yes ultimately it does. We need opportunities where there are more and more professional, creative jobs. 7 Eleven is not going to cut it.
And more of those jobs need to be in that precious urban core, or not so many of these people are going to want to live there.
Quote from: cityimrov on March 25, 2012, 10:56:18 PM
Quote from: blandman on March 25, 2012, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
It seems to me that the main complaint of a lot of people on this forum is that there are not enough people in Jacksonville like the people on this forum.
Every time I come to town though, I see plenty of people supporting the "cool" businesses around town. Went to Kickback's last year to watch a Phillies game (my in-laws don't even get basic cable...i.e., ESPN!!!) and it was packed (not many Phillies fans, though). Went to The French Pantry last year when I was working in Jax...packed at lunch in the middle of the week. Went to Bold City on a Saturday the weekend of the Eagles/Jags game last year...good crowd. Went to Bold Bean this last December during a weekday morning...plenty of folks. The beer scene is getting stronger every year.
The progress just seems incredibly slow, and the marketing of Jacksonville appears non-existent. I seriously cannot believe how cheap you can get a 60-70 year old 1,000 sqft bungalow in a very walkable neighborhood in Jacksonville. Young people would be flocking to Jacksonville if there were somewhere to work. It is almost never mentioned in a positive light in the national media (Super Bowl = 7+ years ago). Sadly, I don't know what needs to be done to speed things up, but I have hope!
QuoteYoung people would be flocking to Jacksonville if there were somewhere to work.
All the ideas of this thread is fun but everything comes down to this. Where are they going to work?
I guess slow progress is better than no progress at all. I'm just the impatient type. And yes, jobs most definitely is a key. Really good jobs. I know the state of Florida was hit pretty badly from recession, but I think it's in a reasonable state now to try and get people back to work. Even get the people back who had to move for job reasons. THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!! >:( LOL!
Quote from: Noone on March 25, 2012, 10:27:35 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: kells904 on March 25, 2012, 05:03:06 PM
This is a really good question...
Some places think they're big time, when they kinda aren't. I don't consider SJTC a "destination", as it appears many do. If anything, I consider it a chance to get in a car accident every time I go out there. Day by day, River City Marketplace is catching up. But I digress...
I'd like to see a moratorium on road construction, so that we could stop knocking down trees to put up more tract housing and strip malls, adding to an ever-growing road construction budget, and a tax base that can barely keep up.
Since the city buses can't make it into most residential areas--allegedly--I'd like to see those little mini buses do that. Drop the folks off at substations that currently don't even exist, instead of making Rosa Parks the ONLY transfer station.
I'd like to see an END to JTA as we know it. In it's current form, it is an incompentent mutant of an Authority. Whoever in that organization is of any worth, is being overhadowed by a whole lotta suck.
I'd like to see heritage streetcars in the neighborhoods surrounding the Core, painted either Teal or Black. Commuter rail to connected the regions from the airport to the Riverfront to the Beaches and everywhere in between.
The Prime Osborn turned back into a Transportation Hub. Everything decked out in a retro, WWII-era style.
Since that would mean no Convention Center, that the hotels we have in place now take up the slack in the meantime. Our Convention business isn't strong enough to warrant a new one yet, IMO, and should help the hotels make a few pesos.
I do like the idea of "Riverfront" being sort of an interchangeable name with "Downtown".
Public art along the Riverwalk, something sort of like what they have along the San Diego Bay.
I'd like to see Shad Khan and Mark Lamping inundate us with so much Jags advertising that it makes people sick, including wrapping the Skyway trains. I'd like to see the Skyway go to the Sports Complex. It would be nice if each station actually had kiosks/food options.
Stop filtering everyone out of Downtown on gamedays. If we had a funtioning train system, we wouldn't need to use buses and cops to do it anyway.
Riverboats, going up and down the St. John's. Some of them could be gambling boats; others, simply floating restaurants, day cruises, whatever.
I just googled regatta, so apparently we have one. Would be nice if it were advertised. Jet ski races in front of the Landing?
I thought it'd be cool if one street Downtown was peppered with small theaters, complete with old-style marquees. Each of them could play one or two movies. An AMC broken down into several smaller parts, so to speak...They could also host small-venue concerts.
How about a yearly, local music festival? Do we have one of those? I don't mean Jazz Fest; I mean for local rock bands and singers and whatnot. A really cheap affair, in Metro Park or something, possibly sponsored by the local breweries that are popping up...
Become one of America's medical epicenters, like Rick Mullaney was talking about when he was running for mayor.
The Bob Hayes Invitational needs to be moved to a larger venue. For its ability to pull such a high level of talent from across the state the way it does, it should be such a big deal locally at this point, it should be even a bigger deal than it currently is. But instead it's cramped onto the Raines campus where parking is a nightmare, the bleachers look like a tent city, and the concession stands are total chaos. I was thinking UNF.
Sort of off-subject, but not really...I want the FCAT to go away. It's clearly done more harm than good, as kids are graduating without even being able to write a coherent sentence.
I'd like to see the City take some of Ennis's FREE advice on increasing Downtown foot traffic.
That's all I can come up with right now...
The love being showered on 7-Eleven's return, and people getting all gooey inside over every little thing, is simply an indication that people are desperate to cling to "something" that validates the city's worth, IMO. It's just a little misguided since there seems to have been a concerted effort to bury everything that once made the City great.
I don't consider SJTC a destination either. Not a bad place to go, though. I didn't think it would kill Regency and the Avenues, though. If anything, I thought it would just add to Jacksonville's shopping scene. If I had the money, I would buy Regency Square Mall and I would totally renovate it to be 3 stories high with an ice skating rink in the middle, an indoor bike ramp/skate ramp, and whatever stores you could think of. Add a parking garage to it, with a crosswalk that stretches from over Atlantic Blvd. to Arlington Expwy., going right through the mall itself, and ending at AMC. That'll give SJTC some competition!
I think excessive road construction goes to far and that money can be put toward better things, but I would like to see more convenient access to get around the city. We have enough strip malls and I cringe when I hear that they're building another strip mall. Build something worth building.
I wouldn't mind over-advertising on the Jags. Yes, build more terminals with trains. Paint more teal and black. Hell, even pictures of Lynyrd Skynyrd on some of the downtown buildings and Jaguars on the other. Give people reasons to celebrate.
Jacksonville used to have a lot of good local bands back in the day. I don't know if I just stopped following or if the scene really did die out. I used to see shows at Jack Rabbit's and Club 5 all the time. Looking back, those were some good times.
Jet ski races in front of the landing? My thoughts exactly! I'm glad someone else sees what I see! I would totally participate in something like that!
And yes! Stop celebrating over stupid things.
I mean, come on. Really? The city gets excited over 7-11??? Stuff like that makes me ashamed to be from here. "Ooh, we're getting a Cheesecake Factory/P.F. Chang's/Dave & Buster's!" "Ooh, 7-11 is coming back! That means Jacksonville really is a city!" Sounds retarded doesn't it?
Who else is with me?
kells, Anti R
I'm with you both. Would either of you like to meet?
It was another gut wrenching day to be Downtown and trying to access our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative. I go to the meetings and its amazing what is being kept from the Public.
The list continues to grow.
Just a brief observation.
I put in at Sidney Gefin Park in a kayak. I look at the empty floating dock at RAM which can only be used on Sat. I continue by the private docks. (I can understand that)
But after my paddle I go and look at Bay St. Pier Park (Shipyards/Landmar) Jacksonville. Wake up. This spot should be rocking right now. What is everyone afraid of? Go and look for yourself.
Then I go to the Maxwell house dredge.
Then I go down to Metroploitan Park. Remember its closed on the weekends. The number of people that I saw that would pull up in their cars get out and try to figure out how they can get to the river. It is truly gut wrenching to watch.
Legislation is the dialogue.
Hmm.... I might. What did you have in mind? I'll admit I do have a fright of meeting people from the internet.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
A lot of people I hear from keep saying the same thing. Jacksonville is a boring city, that it just keeps getting more and more dead. Can't say I disagree. Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
I have lived in big cities such as Philly and Pittsburgh and they don't seem much different than here. Yeah there is more emphasis on the suburbs, but I always find things going on. I mean it is not going to be Vegas or anything, but there are things to do.
I find the residents of Jax very entertaining. I really do believe Jax would be fine if it became less of a restrictive place, thus allowing individual creativity and innovation to place within our urban landscape. There's lots of things to get into but it seems to be a place where you have to make and effort to find them. I know I'm different but I still find it amazing to come across people who have lived here for more than a decade and still haven't made the effort to familiarize themselves with the entire town. I took a lady out to lunch a couple of weeks ago to Soul Food Bistro, who spends most of her time in Arlington. I was shocked when she asked for directions on how to get back to the other side of town from Normandy and Cassat. During my time here (I relocated to Jax in 2003), that has happened several times.
QuoteReally, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
No offense, but you need to get off your couch and check out the city around you.
I typically have to make several choices b/w events or things to do
every day of the week. If you are bored in this town, that's a personal choice. I wish there were 28 hours in a day, that some of those hours weren't filled with work and that there were 8 days in a week just so I could fit everything in that I want to do.
Life requires you to get off the couch, go do something and complain less.
QuoteI know I'm different but I still find it amazing to come across people who have lived here for more than a decade and still haven't made the effort to familiarize themselves with the entire town.
+1
Quote from: Jdog on March 25, 2012, 05:01:43 PM
KenFSU, you brought up a great point. The city needs to expand the young demographic (25 to 34 year olds especially).
The New York Times article linked below is pretty good (it's 2006 but still good).
I liked the referencing in the article to the importance of internships.
So I wonder if there is a way for the city to incentivize / encourage local businesses to increase their number of college / graduate school targeted internships? Heck, the city could help organize and find centralized locations for summer housing for interns coming into town from outside universities. Network, have a good time in Jacksonville, be around other energetic young people...might pay off.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/25/us/25young.html?pagewanted=all
Among the largest Florida cities, Jacksonville has the youngest population...
345. Fort Lauderdale, Florida Avg. Population Age in Fort Lauderdale, FL 36.1
394. Miami, Florida Avg. Population Age in Miami, FL 1,567,681 34.3
304. West Palm Beach, Florida ( Avg. Population Age in West Palm Beach, Fl 37.2
401. Orlando, Florida, Avg. Population Age in Orlando, 33.7
404. Tampa, Florida Avg. Population Age in Tampa, FL 33.5
405. Jacksonville, Florida Avg. Population Age in Jacksonville, FL 33.4
Quote from: fieldafm on March 26, 2012, 08:36:50 AM
QuoteReally, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
No offense, but you need to get off your couch and check out the city around you.
I typically have to make several choices b/w events or things to do every day of the week. If you are bored in this town, that's a personal choice. I wish there were 28 hours in a day, that some of those hours weren't filled with work and that there were 8 days in a week just so I could fit everything in that I want to do.
Life requires you to get off the couch, go do something and complain less.
Amen!
Same experience here. Really, too much stuff to pick between. Pick up a Folio, or an Arbus, of watch this forum long enough and you'll become inundated with upcoming events. The other week, I literally had a Margaret Atwood signing, a beer festival at Intuition, a concert at Freebird, and an event at the TU Center all in one night.
Another important question: How do we create synergy between all of the vastly different clusters of this 800 square mile city? Great mass transit is an obvious answer. But what else? The Jacksonville experience to UNF students, for example, is largely limited -- or at least laser focused -- on the areas around campus and the SJTC. The old joke is that those who live at the Jax Beaches do everything possible to stay on the beach and avoid crossing over the intercoastal. Northsiders have everything they need on their end of town. The Mandarin folk have their own amnenities. Ditto the San Marco/Riverside/Avondale crowd. I think a lot of the lack of Jacksonville pride can be attritubed to the fact that the city has little unified identity or synergy, but rather exists more as a dozen largely self-contained clusters connected by miles and miles of highway. There might be a lot going on at any given time, but the size, scale, and spread of Jacksonville makes it seem a lot more dead than it actually is when you're out driving around on a Saturday night. The million dollar question then becomes, how do we shake up all of the individual Jacksonville experiences and create a unified whole that is greater than the sum of the parts?
QuoteQuitcher bitchin. Make stuff happen. Encourage everyone you know to do the same. Pitch in and help out publicizing stuff that you do know about so that the promoters make enough money and fun to continue with their events. If you have ideas and need help, ask how to do them.
This is your city for now, and therefore your life. Make it worth living in.
+1
Make it happen.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 26, 2012, 08:58:01 AM
Quote from: Jdog on March 25, 2012, 05:01:43 PM
KenFSU, you brought up a great point. The city needs to expand the young demographic (25 to 34 year olds especially).
The New York Times article linked below is pretty good (it's 2006 but still good).
I liked the referencing in the article to the importance of internships.
So I wonder if there is a way for the city to incentivize / encourage local businesses to increase their number of college / graduate school targeted internships? Heck, the city could help organize and find centralized locations for summer housing for interns coming into town from outside universities. Network, have a good time in Jacksonville, be around other energetic young people...might pay off.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/25/us/25young.html?pagewanted=all
Among the largest Florida cities, Jacksonville has the youngest population...
345. Fort Lauderdale, Florida Avg. Population Age in Fort Lauderdale, FL 36.1
394. Miami, Florida Avg. Population Age in Miami, FL 1,567,681 34.3
304. West Palm Beach, Florida ( Avg. Population Age in West Palm Beach, Fl 37.2
401. Orlando, Florida, Avg. Population Age in Orlando, 33.7
404. Tampa, Florida Avg. Population Age in Tampa, FL 33.5
405. Jacksonville, Florida Avg. Population Age in Jacksonville, FL 33.4
To Ock's point... there are indeed young people living in Jax, I think the 25-40 year old age group is actually the largest segment (someone will need to check my work). The key is getting the creative young minds in this city ENGAGED.
Many young people are indifferent in this city, and frankly that is the single largest problem facing our community today in my honest of opinions.
Get up off your couch, bring a friend and make a difference. Problem solved.
Quote from: cityimrov on March 25, 2012, 01:58:01 PM
Jacksonville has been in at the other hand of the handout platter for a long time. So long that the people have forgotten how to work to obtain things. It, as a city are like those welfare queens people in the media always bash about. The Navy, the highways, the companies - most of them are in Jacksonville because of what mother nature and the federal government gave it - not because of anything the population did.
The only major thing the as a population has done so far was beg for them to come to Jacksonville.
In what way does our population deserve to have a nuclear aircraft carrier? Is it because of a strong nuclear industry? Is it because of a strong shipbuilding industry? Is it because the large amount of nuclear scientists? Why does Jacksonville deserve a nuclear aircraft carrier other than the fact Mother Nature put the ocean next to it?
Actually Cityimprov, you'd be wrong about us deserving an aircraft carrier.
NAS JAX is the only large military reservation in America that was bought and paid for by the citizens of the city and GIVEN to the NAVY! I'd call that pretty proactive.
The famous PT (patrol torpedo) boats of WWII fame were indeed created at Huckins Yacht on the Ortega, until that time the Navy didn't have a hull design that could attain those speeds.
Shipbuilding? Yep, Our shipyards serve customers in the following industries, Atlantic Marine/BAE systems has sales of more then $1 billion annually:
Commercial customers, including dredge equipment, research vessels, tugs and barges, cruise ships, offshore rig as well as drilling and support vessels, tankers, containerships and much more
Government customers, including MSC, MARAD, U.S. Navy and various government subsidy vessels
MegaYacht customers, including some of the world's most prestigious private and corporate owned luxury vessels
Industrial customers, including pulp and paper, petrochemical, oil and gas, offshore, marine and power generation
Finally our downtown shipyards turned out dozens of ships throughout WWII, this was done on both sides of the river downtown. The relationship with the Navy, Coast Guard and maritime industries goes deep.
QuoteGet up off your couch, bring a friend and make a difference. Problem solved.
It's a nice idea, but sadly until that age group feels like they can make a difference and March on City Hall to demand changes, I don't see it happening. MJ has been the most progressive thing to come out of Jax since the FTU swallowed up the Jax Journal, and change takes time. Look at Brown, its taken him almost an entire year to get his administration in order, and he still has yet to really make a difference downtown. If we can ever get the Southbank Riverwalk fixed, that will be progress.
Quote from: KenFSU on March 26, 2012, 09:21:10 AM
Another important question: How do we create synergy between all of the vastly different clusters of this 800 square mile city? Great mass transit is an obvious answer. But what else? The Jacksonville experience to UNF students, for example, is largely limited -- or at least laser focused -- on the areas around campus and the SJTC. The old joke is that those who live at the Jax Beaches do everything possible to stay on the beach and avoid crossing over the intercoastal. Northsiders have everything they need on their end of town. The Mandarin folk have their own amnenities. Ditto the San Marco/Riverside/Avondale crowd. I think a lot of the lack of Jacksonville pride can be attritubed to the fact that the city has little unified identity or synergy, but rather exists more as a dozen largely self-contained clusters connected by miles and miles of highway. There might be a lot going on at any given time, but the size, scale, and spread of Jacksonville makes it seem a lot more dead than it actually is when you're out driving around on a Saturday night. The million dollar question then becomes, how do we shake up all of the individual Jacksonville experiences and create a unified whole that is greater than the sum of the parts?
P.S. This problem is one of the main, underappreciated benefits of having the Jaguars here in Jacksonville. At the very least, our NFL team provides some sort of unifying rallying point for our widely dispersed population. You really can't put a price tag on how valuable that is.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on March 26, 2012, 07:24:17 AM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 25, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
A lot of people I hear from keep saying the same thing. Jacksonville is a boring city, that it just keeps getting more and more dead. Can't say I disagree. Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?
I have lived in big cities such as Philly and Pittsburgh and they don't seem much different than here. Yeah there is more emphasis on the suburbs, but I always find things going on. I mean it is not going to be Vegas or anything, but there are things to do.
I agree with many of the posters that Jax has plenty to do, you just have to look. However, having lived and owned a house in the Art Museum neighborhood of Philadelphia, I can't disagree more with your statement that it didn't "seem much different" than Jax. Are you serious? I'm not sure I can think of more than 1 or 2 similarities, and they'd be pretty generic. I've lived in other big cities (London, Tokyo, Atlanta) and I'd say they were also pretty dissimilar. That's part of my fascination with Jax...it's potential!
Quote from: KenFSU on March 26, 2012, 09:38:48 AM
P.S. This problem is one of the main, underappreciated benefits of having the Jaguars here in Jacksonville. At the very least, our NFL team provides some sort of unifying rallying point for our widely dispersed population. You really can't put a price tag on how valuable that is.
Careful Ken, or tomorrow they'll be talking about a new stadium on Talbot Island!
QuoteIt's a nice idea, but sadly until that age group feels like they can make a difference and March on City Hall to demand changes, I don't see it happening.
Mtraininjax, say it isn't so, my "old hippie" detector just went off.
QuoteI can't disagree more with your statement that it didn't "seem much different" than Jax. Are you serious? I'm not sure I can think of more than 1 or 2 similarities, and they'd be pretty generic. I've lived in other big cities (London, Tokyo, Atlanta) and I'd same they were also pretty dissimilar. That's part of my fascination with Jax...it's potential!
blandman, you've struck at the heart of the "problem." Its not that Jacksonville is similar or dissimilar Philadelphia, any more then it is to Medellin, Bogota, San Francisco or Rough-and-Ready California. The problem is far too many Jaxson's want Jacksonville, to 'be' Philadelphia, Medellin, Bogota etc... Now here's the rub, Philadelphia ISN'T like San Francisco, and Bogota ISN'T Rough-and-Ready and Jacksonville nor any of these other places will ever 'be like' someplace else. In the decades between 1890 and 1930, Jaxson's had a love affair with our city, they called it 'The Queen of the Winter Resorts', and 'The City Beautiful.' We were progressive and likely the most liberal city in the American south, a African-American Sheriff, an abundance of early movie stars and a movement to disallow segregation on our streetcars proves it. Some of us ARE in love with Jacksonville, either for what it was, is, or could be, but it will NEVER be 'Rough-and-Ready, Jacksonville is more then that, IT'S JACKSONVILLE!'.
Quoteblandman, you've struck at the heart of the "problem." Its not that Jacksonville is similar or dissimilar Philadelphia, any more then it is to Medellin, Bogota, San Francisco or Rough-and-Ready California. The problem is far too many Jaxson's want Jacksonville, to 'be' Philadelphia, Medellin, Bogota etc... Now here's the rub, Philadelphia ISN'T like San Francisco, and Bogota ISN'T Rough-and-Ready and Jacksonville nor any of these other places will ever 'be like' someplace else. In the decades between 1890 and 1930, Jaxson's had a love affair with our city, they called it 'The Queen of the Winter Resorts', and 'The City Beautiful.' We were progressive and likely the most liberal city in the American south, a African-American Sheriff, an abundance of early movie stars and a movement to disallow segregation on our streetcars proves it. Some of us ARE in love with Jacksonville, either for what it was, is or could be, but it will NEVER be 'Rough-and-Ready Jacksonville is more then that, IT'S JACKSONVILLE!'.
Just a question - when did people from Jacksonville start being referred to as "Jaxsons?" I've seen that a bit on this forum and personally hate it. But I'd never heard it in the 28 years I lived in Jacksonville. Just curious..
Quote from: fieldafm on March 26, 2012, 09:29:31 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 26, 2012, 08:58:01 AM
Quote from: Jdog on March 25, 2012, 05:01:43 PM
KenFSU, you brought up a great point. The city needs to expand the young demographic (25 to 34 year olds especially).
The New York Times article linked below is pretty good (it's 2006 but still good).
I liked the referencing in the article to the importance of internships.
So I wonder if there is a way for the city to incentives / encourage local businesses to increase their number of college / graduate school targeted internships? Heck, the city could help organize and find centralized locations for summer housing for interns coming into town from outside universities. Network, have a good time in Jacksonville, be around other energetic young people...might pay off.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/25/us/25young.html?pagewanted=all
Among the largest Florida cities, Jacksonville has the youngest population...
345. Fort Lauderdale, Florida Avg. Population Age in Fort Lauderdale, FL 36.1
394. Miami, Florida Avg. Population Age in Miami, FL 1,567,681 34.3
304. West Palm Beach, Florida ( Avg. Population Age in West Palm Beach, Fl 37.2
401. Orlando, Florida, Avg. Population Age in Orlando, 33.7
404. Tampa, Florida Avg. Population Age in Tampa, FL 33.5
405. Jacksonville, Florida Avg. Population Age in Jacksonville, FL 33.4
To Ock's point... there are indeed young people living in Jax, I think the 25-40 year old age group is actually the largest segment (someone will need to check my work). The key is getting the creative young minds in this city ENGAGED.
Many young people are indifferent in this city, and frankly that is the single largest problem facing our community today in my honest of opinions.
Get up off your couch, bring a friend and make a difference. Problem solved.
You are very correct. I am 30. I love the city and only want the best for it. I also have a friend who is 30. He moved back here from DC a few years back because he had a death in the family. He stays in the core but was getting discouraged with the city. I convinced him to stay. He recently became invovled on the city's enterprise zone committee and I was very excited about that. My generation needs to get involved in order to make this city what we want it to be. The only reason I am not involved is because I work and go to college full time and just don't have any time to devote to it. As soon as I am available, I will find a way to get involved with the city in some capacity.
Quote from: fieldafm on March 26, 2012, 09:29:31 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 26, 2012, 08:58:01 AM
Quote from: Jdog on March 25, 2012, 05:01:43 PM
KenFSU, you brought up a great point. The city needs to expand the young demographic (25 to 34 year olds especially).
The New York Times article linked below is pretty good (it's 2006 but still good).
I liked the referencing in the article to the importance of internships.
So I wonder if there is a way for the city to incentivize / encourage local businesses to increase their number of college / graduate school targeted internships? Heck, the city could help organize and find centralized locations for summer housing for interns coming into town from outside universities. Network, have a good time in Jacksonville, be around other energetic young people...might pay off.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/25/us/25young.html?pagewanted=all
Among the largest Florida cities, Jacksonville has the youngest population...
345. Fort Lauderdale, Florida Avg. Population Age in Fort Lauderdale, FL 36.1
394. Miami, Florida Avg. Population Age in Miami, FL 1,567,681 34.3
304. West Palm Beach, Florida ( Avg. Population Age in West Palm Beach, Fl 37.2
401. Orlando, Florida, Avg. Population Age in Orlando, 33.7
404. Tampa, Florida Avg. Population Age in Tampa, FL 33.5
405. Jacksonville, Florida Avg. Population Age in Jacksonville, FL 33.4
To Ock's point... there are indeed young people living in Jax, I think the 25-40 year old age group is actually the largest segment (someone will need to check my work). The key is getting the creative young minds in this city ENGAGED.
Many young people are indifferent in this city, and frankly that is the single largest problem facing our community today in my honest of opinions.
Get up off your couch, bring a friend and make a difference. Problem solved.
As someone who works in a college, I agree with this 100%. An engaged and invested young population is necessary for any city to reach its potential. Fortunately I see hopeful signs in this regard at UNF.
Quote from: Adam W on March 26, 2012, 01:13:42 PM
Quoteblandman, you've struck at the heart of the "problem." Its not that Jacksonville is similar or dissimilar Philadelphia, any more then it is to Medellin, Bogota, San Francisco or Rough-and-Ready California. The problem is far too many Jaxson's want Jacksonville, to 'be' Philadelphia, Medellin, Bogota etc... Now here's the rub, Philadelphia ISN'T like San Francisco, and Bogota ISN'T Rough-and-Ready and Jacksonville nor any of these other places will ever 'be like' someplace else. In the decades between 1890 and 1930, Jaxson's had a love affair with our city, they called it 'The Queen of the Winter Resorts', and 'The City Beautiful.' We were progressive and likely the most liberal city in the American south, a African-American Sheriff, an abundance of early movie stars and a movement to disallow segregation on our streetcars proves it. Some of us ARE in love with Jacksonville, either for what it was, is or could be, but it will NEVER be 'Rough-and-Ready Jacksonville is more then that, IT'S JACKSONVILLE!'.
Just a question - when did people from Jacksonville start being referred to as "Jaxsons?" I've seen that a bit on this forum and personally hate it. But I'd never heard it in the 28 years I lived in Jacksonville. Just curious..
"Jaxons" is a term for folks from Jacksonville used by the late, great
Times-Union writer Bill Foley. Insult his memory at your peril.
Quote from: stephendare on March 26, 2012, 01:48:00 PM
Our citizens have transformed industry and life twice by giving the world Containerization and the Personal or Home Computer.
We also gave the country the six pack (Jax Brewing Company), the ability to buy automobiles by installments (Claude Nolan Cadillac) and the concept of giving customers back refunds (Cohen Brothers). The residents of Jacksonville are just as innovative as any other place in the country. We've just have to find a way to let that innovation and creativity freely flow within a compact setting.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 26, 2012, 09:33:42 AM
Quote from: cityimrov on March 25, 2012, 01:58:01 PM
Jacksonville has been in at the other hand of the handout platter for a long time. So long that the people have forgotten how to work to obtain things. It, as a city are like those welfare queens people in the media always bash about. The Navy, the highways, the companies - most of them are in Jacksonville because of what mother nature and the federal government gave it - not because of anything the population did.
The only major thing the as a population has done so far was beg for them to come to Jacksonville.
In what way does our population deserve to have a nuclear aircraft carrier? Is it because of a strong nuclear industry? Is it because of a strong shipbuilding industry? Is it because the large amount of nuclear scientists? Why does Jacksonville deserve a nuclear aircraft carrier other than the fact Mother Nature put the ocean next to it?
Actually Cityimprov, you'd be wrong about us deserving an aircraft carrier.
NAS JAX is the only large military reservation in America that was bought and paid for by the citizens of the city and GIVEN to the NAVY! I'd call that pretty proactive.
The famous PT (patrol torpedo) boats of WWII fame were indeed created at Huckins Yacht on the Ortega, until that time the Navy didn't have a hull design that could attain those speeds.
Shipbuilding? Yep, Our shipyards serve customers in the following industries, Atlantic Marine/BAE systems has sales of more then $1 billion annually:
Commercial customers, including dredge equipment, research vessels, tugs and barges, cruise ships, offshore rig as well as drilling and support vessels, tankers, containerships and much more
Government customers, including MSC, MARAD, U.S. Navy and various government subsidy vessels
MegaYacht customers, including some of the world's most prestigious private and corporate owned luxury vessels
Industrial customers, including pulp and paper, petrochemical, oil and gas, offshore, marine and power generation
Finally our downtown shipyards turned out dozens of ships throughout WWII, this was done on both sides of the river downtown. The relationship with the Navy, Coast Guard and maritime industries goes deep.
I said forgotten because Jacksonville used to do a lot! Compare what it does today to what it did in the past. Jacksonville used to create and build new things instead of just fixing them. Nowadays it just waits for the next contract or the next big thing to happen instead of being proactive and molding it's own future. It's sad.
Don't forget, what everyone is arguing here is considered barely normal in other cities. If you get what you want, the fight still isn't over. Even more has to be done to just go beyond what is the bare minimum in other places. If you stop fighting once you get what you want, your no better than the ones that made this mess we have to live with today!
Quote from: thelakelander on March 26, 2012, 02:46:40 PM
Quote from: stephendare on March 26, 2012, 01:48:00 PM
Our citizens have transformed industry and life twice by giving the world Containerization and the Personal or Home Computer.
We also gave the country the six pack (Jax Brewing Company), the ability to buy automobiles by installments (Claude Nolan Cadillac) and the concept of giving customers back refunds (Cohen Brothers). The residents of Jacksonville are just as innovative as any other place in the country. We've just have to find a way to let that innovation and creativity freely flow within a compact setting.
We also gave the world these horrible, wonderful things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGWJbcTvL_M
Jacksonville has great suburbs, historical neighborhoods, Beaches, rivers, office parks, port, rural areas, recreational parks what we do not have is a great urban area. Five Points, SJTC and the beach have some good urban elements but that is it. We have good tourist, military, professional and industrial money here. What is lacking is a real Urban area that would benefit our entire communities quality of life.
Our Downtown has great bones and infrastructure so we can add the missing element to our mix and the will is growing. We need to make the core easier to do business in with less sign ordinances, parking meters, reduce sidewalk business restrictions and the like. We need to connect our core better through free skyway and bus ordination. (Streetcar would be great bang for the buck but not an absolute requirement.) We need some leadership (that I think we are seeing) on making the existing towers engage the city at pedestrian level.
We don't need to beat the mouse we need to have all the QOL options of multiple lifestyles close enough for us to visit then leave the mouse.
Quote
"Jaxons" is a term for folks from Jacksonville used by the late, great Times-Union writer Bill Foley. Insult his memory at your peril.
I would never insult Bill Foley. Even if I think the term is stupid. But I've got nothing (else) against the guy, that I can think of ;D
Quote
blandman, you've struck at the heart of the "problem." Its not that Jacksonville is similar or dissimilar Philadelphia, any more then it is to Medellin, Bogota, San Francisco or Rough-and-Ready California. The problem is far too many Jaxson's want Jacksonville, to 'be' Philadelphia, Medellin, Bogota etc... Now here's the rub, Philadelphia ISN'T like San Francisco, and Bogota ISN'T Rough-and-Ready and Jacksonville nor any of these other places will ever 'be like' someplace else. In the decades between 1890 and 1930, Jaxson's had a love affair with our city, they called it 'The Queen of the Winter Resorts', and 'The City Beautiful.' We were progressive and likely the most liberal city in the American south, a African-American Sheriff, an abundance of early movie stars and a movement to disallow segregation on our streetcars proves it. Some of us ARE in love with Jacksonville, either for what it was, is, or could be, but it will NEVER be 'Rough-and-Ready, Jacksonville is more then that, IT'S JACKSONVILLE!'.
You know, I totally agree with that sentiment, by the way. I've had this discussion with a number of friends of mine who are artists or whatever who always lament how Jacksonville isn't how they want it to be, etc. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to improve the city; I'm just saying that we should understand that the city is what it is and maybe the 'vision' a small, vocal segment of the city have for its future might not jibe with what most, ahem...'Jaxsons', desire.
Jacksonville is a good city to live in if you like going to church. And that's not a put-down. That's a fact. And it IS politically conservative. You can try to fight against those sorts of things all day long, but it's just going to wear you out.
I really think the thing that would help the city the most would be to figure out some way (tax breaks or something, anything) to attract businesses downtown. I know BoA has a massive campus on the Southside (I used to work there) and maybe they'll never move. But it would be amazing we could get them downtown. Citibank moved from Baymeadows to Bayard or something. How did we ever let that happen? And the First Coast School of Law shouldn't be in the old Citibank building, it should be right downtown.
Once enough people work downtown, it will make public transport more viable: people will see a benefit to taking the bus over paying for parking. And with dedicated bus lanes, there could be a time savings as well.
I used to live outside Hartford, CT and thought it reminded me of Jax (aside from the insurance thing) in that the downtown would be dead after 5 and on the weekends. The big difference, however, was that it was really busy during office hours. I'd settle for a downtown like that over what Jax has now.
It's not beyond the realm of possibility. The southside grew, in part, because the city offered incentives for businesses to move there. It can be reversed.
Yeah sorry I did not mean to say that Philly (5 times bigger than Jax) is exactly the same. For Jacksonville's size, the city is not too bad. I think that cities in the northeast (where I am from) are more compact and vibrant in their core/ generally speaking, but I do feel that we stack up quite well if not better than cites in our population range. I do want the core to be more vibrant, so I will fight for and support that. It will happen. As for saying I lived in all these great cities and this place sucks.. than leave!
Quote from: Tacachale on March 26, 2012, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: Adam W on March 26, 2012, 01:13:42 PM
Quoteblandman, you've struck at the heart of the "problem." Its not that Jacksonville is similar or dissimilar Philadelphia, any more then it is to Medellin, Bogota, San Francisco or Rough-and-Ready California. The problem is far too many Jaxson's want Jacksonville, to 'be' Philadelphia, Medellin, Bogota etc... Now here's the rub, Philadelphia ISN'T like San Francisco, and Bogota ISN'T Rough-and-Ready and Jacksonville nor any of these other places will ever 'be like' someplace else. In the decades between 1890 and 1930, Jaxson's had a love affair with our city, they called it 'The Queen of the Winter Resorts', and 'The City Beautiful.' We were progressive and likely the most liberal city in the American south, a African-American Sheriff, an abundance of early movie stars and a movement to disallow segregation on our streetcars proves it. Some of us ARE in love with Jacksonville, either for what it was, is or could be, but it will NEVER be 'Rough-and-Ready Jacksonville is more then that, IT'S JACKSONVILLE!'.
Just a question - when did people from Jacksonville start being referred to as "Jaxsons?" I've seen that a bit on this forum and personally hate it. But I'd never heard it in the 28 years I lived in Jacksonville. Just curious..
"Jaxons" is a term for folks from Jacksonville used by the late, great Times-Union writer Bill Foley. Insult his memory at your peril.
My apologies to the late Bill Foley, but Jaxson's goes well back into the 1890's and perhaps farther. When the NFL did its research for their mascot, 'Jaxson' wasn't a mistake. I suspect this is also the origin of the city ID JAX.
I find it hard to be bored in this city - & I've never been considered a simpleton. You really aren't trying hard enough if you feel that there's nothing to do. I can spend a day in ANY quadrant of North Florida & get into something. There are certainly pockets (& events) in Jacksonville that wouldn't go unnoticed in other major cities - we tend to take them for granted. There's been no shortage of concerts or festivals YTD - I swear every week there seems to be something happening at one or more venues (including Ponte Vedra & St. Aug amphitheatre). I contend that you could drop all of (charming) Avondale into another metro area & it would/could be just as - if not more, of a destination. I really believe that Mr. Khan is going to bring a strong influence beyond football ownership as already evidenced in his statements & immediate involvement (albeit limited) downtown. I would also like to see a marketing push to ram the Jags down everyone's throats - whether in the airport, or down I-95. I have always felt that we don't advertise the obvious enough when & where necessary. Everyone knows that Disney is down in Orlando, but they still show up on our billboards. Sensationalize a road trip from downtown to Fernandina - a beautiful drive including the Mayport Ferry (for years to come, let's hope). Leverage St. Augustine - it's a top 5 (or 3 in some lists) tourist destination in Florida - hard to get there without passing through JAX for most - they're watching our broadcasts on network television down there too! Get the Amtrak routes in order; offer more (any)international flights out of JIA (especially to the Car ribbean); extend the Skyway - at least one more time to the Sports Complex; put a big neon arrow on the Fuller Warren advertising RAM; pound your chest about the local breweries/tours offered (including A/B); offer river taxi service or a riverboat cruise from downtown to our "above average" zoo; get excited about our beaches & the cool vibe that Jax Beach has to offer; embrace (not shun) the multitude of shopping/dining options @ SJTC; put a historical marker on every remaining building of significance downtown reflecting on any & all notable details; keep the momentum going with downtown nightlife....Oh yeah, bring football to UNF. ;)
Quote from: fieldafm on March 26, 2012, 08:40:43 AM
QuoteI know I'm different but I still find it amazing to come across people who have lived here for more than a decade and still haven't made the effort to familiarize themselves with the entire town.
+1
So fieldy, what's your vision of Jacksonville?
Quote from: ben says on March 24, 2012, 01:15:43 PM
Random, but always thought Jax should advertise its merits more on billboards on 95. Driving south into Florida, you'd hardly even know Jax existed until you hit downtown. We should advertise our historic districts and riverfront more. Furthermore, I wonder how many road trippers know how cool the 5 Points exit is...I mean, jeez, it's right off 95! You'd never know its there because there's NO signage.
Yes, that needs to change.
Responding to the post above, I've never been to Philadelphia or any of those cities named. I just want to see Jacksonville a little more creative in what it's doing. Read my post on the first page and see if that sounds like any other city. I just see what this city could become. I have heard those few say "Oh, we are a city. We don't need any of this." I have also heard those try to compare Jacksonville with other cities and that tells me they don't have much to offer. I don't believe we should compare Jacksonville to other cities. I believe we can compete, however.
I think it's all relative, really. People get bored in Philly as well I'm sure - and subsequently compare themselves to )insert city(.
Quote from: Adam W on March 26, 2012, 03:24:41 PM
Quote
blandman, you've struck at the heart of the "problem." Its not that Jacksonville is similar or dissimilar Philadelphia, any more then it is to Medellin, Bogota, San Francisco or Rough-and-Ready California. The problem is far too many Jaxson's want Jacksonville, to 'be' Philadelphia, Medellin, Bogota etc... Now here's the rub, Philadelphia ISN'T like San Francisco, and Bogota ISN'T Rough-and-Ready and Jacksonville nor any of these other places will ever 'be like' someplace else. In the decades between 1890 and 1930, Jaxson's had a love affair with our city, they called it 'The Queen of the Winter Resorts', and 'The City Beautiful.' We were progressive and likely the most liberal city in the American south, a African-American Sheriff, an abundance of early movie stars and a movement to disallow segregation on our streetcars proves it. Some of us ARE in love with Jacksonville, either for what it was, is, or could be, but it will NEVER be 'Rough-and-Ready, Jacksonville is more then that, IT'S JACKSONVILLE!'.
You know, I totally agree with that sentiment, by the way. I've had this discussion with a number of friends of mine who are artists or whatever who always lament how Jacksonville isn't how they want it to be, etc. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to improve the city; I'm just saying that we should understand that the city is what it is and maybe the 'vision' a small, vocal segment of the city have for its future might not jibe with what most, ahem...'Jaxsons', desire.
Jacksonville is a good city to live in if you like going to church. And that's not a put-down. That's a fact. And it IS politically conservative. You can try to fight against those sorts of things all day long, but it's just going to wear you out.
I really think the thing that would help the city the most would be to figure out some way (tax breaks or something, anything) to attract businesses downtown. I know BoA has a massive campus on the Southside (I used to work there) and maybe they'll never move. But it would be amazing we could get them downtown. Citibank moved from Baymeadows to Bayard or something. How did we ever let that happen? And the First Coast School of Law shouldn't be in the old Citibank building, it should be right downtown.
Once enough people work downtown, it will make public transport more viable: people will see a benefit to taking the bus over paying for parking. And with dedicated bus lanes, there could be a time savings as well.
I used to live outside Hartford, CT and thought it reminded me of Jax (aside from the insurance thing) in that the downtown would be dead after 5 and on the weekends. The big difference, however, was that it was really busy during office hours. I'd settle for a downtown like that over what Jax has now.
It's not beyond the realm of possibility. The southside grew, in part, because the city offered incentives for businesses to move there. It can be reversed.
You know, I never really could understand why anyone would offer businesses incentives to move from downtown into suburbia.
Hmm.... I might. What did you have in mind? I'll admit I do have a fright of meeting people from the internet.
[/quote]
Anti redneck,
We could meet At Jacksonville's Tradeport Pier. Bay St. Pier Park. Its across from the jail and next to the skeleton of Berkman II. Plenty of surveilance cameras around.
I was thinking of bringing my golf clubs and we can hit a few. Are you game? I'm serious. Don't bring your fishing pole or we will definately get cited for that.
QuoteI know BoA has a massive campus on the Southside (I used to work there) and maybe they'll never move. But it would be amazing we could get them downtown. Citibank moved from Baymeadows to Bayard or something. How did we ever let that happen? And the First Coast School of Law shouldn't be in the old Citibank building, it should be right downtown.
I agree 100% on college campuses downtown - but I'm not sure that Florida Coastal or the Art Institute for that matter, would transition as they seem to be commuter schools without much "student/campus life" (imo). Maybe that's how SCAD started? Seems like UNF or JU could offer better extensions.
Regarding BOA, keep in mind that while they don't occupy all floors, they maintain a 43 story iconic presence downtown. BOA's (and Citi, BCBS, Chase, Convergys, etc.) "suburban" campuses are operations/call centers typically built with wide open & expansive production floors/ work spaces - not conducive to high-rise structures. This isn't limited to Jacksonville, rather more of an industry standard in any major city. Citi simply outgrew their building when the mortgage industry went bust & shifted more into collections - I'm sure that it was a lucrative deal to get them to bite on the land "in the middle of nowhere". It's not uncommon for call centers to relocate - even within the same region in an effort to tap into additional demographics (i.e. military/college towns; suburbia) - Convergys is king when it comes to this. Back in the early '80's, when Convergys was still AT&T American Transtech - the story goes that the architect was tasked with "building a skyscraper on its side" for telemarketing & customer service efforts- the purple monster on Baymeadows Way was born (3 stories x 5 "floors").
Quote from: Noone on March 25, 2012, 06:36:57 AM
Nomeus, A homeless person participated in the March 17 cleanup of Hogans Creek and we kayaked together. His story was fascinating. He wasn't one of the slackers. Field took some pics.
My vision is that everyone has an opportunity to follow their dream and if the powers that be put in legislative obstacles that only benefit a few especially as it relates to Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative then they are also part of the problem.
How would you like to kayak under the TU? See for yourself the rookery of McCoys Creek? The Hyatt parking lot? Under the Plaza at Berkman?
Lets reclaim access and fun.
none of what you said has anything to do with what i said. kayaking isnt a priority here...... solutions to jacksonvilles homeless epidemic should be a priority. i saw a guy taking a dump 2 feet from the seminole club which is like 30 feet from city hall. its a huge problem. start with getting these folks off the streets and into jobs and then we can talk about kayaking or whatever.
Florida Coastal did try and move to downtown before ultimately deciding to move to Baymeadows. Parking was billed as the issue for the suburban location. This was a failed opportunity but now that ship has passed, at least for the next decade:
QuoteAmong the school's first changes likely will be a move to downtown Jacksonville. Wippman said the school should have a new location by fall 2005. The school's current home is an 85,000-square-foot office park on Beach Boulevard, but Wippman wants a facility with double that size. He also wants to increase the student body from 685 to 1,000 students.
"We've been encouraged by the city's leaders about moving downtown," he said. "The city is at a point in its evolution where it's ready to take a big leap, just like the school is ready to take a big leap."
He said the school would seek incentives from the city to move downtown.
Kirk Wendland, head of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, said he has discussed possible downtown locations with school representatives but not recently. Factors such as whether the school would construct a new or existing building and location would influence a decision on incentives, he said.
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/012004/met_14585570.shtml
QuoteIt looks like downtown Jacksonville will not be the new home for the Florida Coastal School of Law.
Florida Coastal Dean Peter Goplerud says the private law school has abandoned plans to relocate downtown and will be purchasing and moving into a building in the Southside.
“A variety of considerations went into planing and we assessed the various things that we would have either on site or adjacent to the law school, and it just wasn’t going to happen downtown,†Goplerud said.
Goplerud couldn’t give many exact details about the school’s new location because they are in due diligence regarding the purchase of the new building. He said the new Southside location is roughly twice the size of the current building and “everything will be under one roof.â€
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=42835
QuoteAlthough Goplerud was mum on the school’s location, he did expand on the decision not to come downtown. The school and City worked for years on a deal that would have brought Florida Coastal downtown, near the County and Federal courthouses as well as a majority of the City’s law offices.
In the end, it was parking, not money or space, that drove Florida Coastal’s decision to move to the Southside, said Goplerud.
“Downtown would have been a nice location obviously and we worked hard with the JEDC and the mayor’s office to try to make it work,†he said. “It was somewhat an issue of economics, but really it was the parking issues that couldn’t be addressed.
“One thing I made clear to the mayor, though, was that we want to be as much a part of the community here as possible.â€
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=43292
QuoteFlorida Coastal School of Law has sold its land and building to a New York investment firm for $27 million in a sales-leaseback transaction, according to public records.
FCSL sold the building to Angelo, Gordon & Co. Inc and has signed a 20-year lease for the 225,000 square feet at 8787 Baypine Road, said Brooks Terry, marketing and communications director for the law school, who confirmed that the sale-leaseback ends the possibility of the school moving to Downtown Jacksonville.
“We are not moving. We’re here for at least 20 years as part of the agreement,†Terry said.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2011/02/17/jax-law-school-not-moving-downtown.html
Quote from: nomeus on March 27, 2012, 12:40:57 AM
Quote from: Noone on March 25, 2012, 06:36:57 AM
Nomeus, A homeless person participated in the March 17 cleanup of Hogans Creek and we kayaked together. His story was fascinating. He wasn't one of the slackers. Field took some pics.
My vision is that everyone has an opportunity to follow their dream and if the powers that be put in legislative obstacles that only benefit a few especially as it relates to Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative then they are also part of the problem.
How would you like to kayak under the TU? See for yourself the rookery of McCoys Creek? The Hyatt parking lot? Under the Plaza at Berkman?
Lets reclaim access and fun.
none of what you said has anything to do with what i said. kayaking isnt a priority here...... solutions to jacksonvilles homeless epidemic should be a priority. i saw a guy taking a dump 2 feet from the seminole club which is like 30 feet from city hall. its a huge problem. start with getting these folks off the streets and into jobs and then we can talk about kayaking or whatever.
Potty training 101. I agree its a problem.
So what is a solution for Hemming Plaza. On another thread were Public toilet options. Build one.
I was at a meeting of Downtown Vision where Sheriff Rutherford in a presentation to the Board and using the example of the seminole club dumper pick him up and drive him to the county boarder. Drop him off and let him walk back to Downtown. Will this ultimately result in a positive change of toilet behavior? I'd say yes.
As for jobs. Tonight 2012-202 Taxpayer subsidized parking for Jacksonville city council members will be introduced. Lets just expand this taxpayer subsidy to include valet service and a car wash in front of the St. James Building. Why not?
If Jacksonville solves its homeless problem it will be the first major city in the country to do so. As far as downtown is concerned, invest in a day center outside of the heart of downtown. At this point, whether one believes an investment in a day center is necessary or not, the main public library and Hemming are currently serving those roles.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 27, 2012, 05:58:02 AM
Florida Coastal did try and move to downtown before ultimately deciding to move to Baymeadows. Parking was billed as the issue for the suburban location. This was a failed opportunity but now that ship has passed, at least for the next decade:
QuoteAmong the school's first changes likely will be a move to downtown Jacksonville. Wippman said the school should have a new location by fall 2005. The school's current home is an 85,000-square-foot office park on Beach Boulevard, but Wippman wants a facility with double that size. He also wants to increase the student body from 685 to 1,000 students.
"We've been encouraged by the city's leaders about moving downtown," he said. "The city is at a point in its evolution where it's ready to take a big leap, just like the school is ready to take a big leap."
He said the school would seek incentives from the city to move downtown.
Kirk Wendland, head of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, said he has discussed possible downtown locations with school representatives but not recently. Factors such as whether the school would construct a new or existing building and location would influence a decision on incentives, he said.
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/012004/met_14585570.shtml
QuoteIt looks like downtown Jacksonville will not be the new home for the Florida Coastal School of Law.
Florida Coastal Dean Peter Goplerud says the private law school has abandoned plans to relocate downtown and will be purchasing and moving into a building in the Southside.
“A variety of considerations went into planing and we assessed the various things that we would have either on site or adjacent to the law school, and it just wasn’t going to happen downtown,†Goplerud said.
Goplerud couldn’t give many exact details about the school’s new location because they are in due diligence regarding the purchase of the new building. He said the new Southside location is roughly twice the size of the current building and “everything will be under one roof.â€
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=42835
QuoteAlthough Goplerud was mum on the school’s location, he did expand on the decision not to come downtown. The school and City worked for years on a deal that would have brought Florida Coastal downtown, near the County and Federal courthouses as well as a majority of the City’s law offices.
In the end, it was parking, not money or space, that drove Florida Coastal’s decision to move to the Southside, said Goplerud.
“Downtown would have been a nice location obviously and we worked hard with the JEDC and the mayor’s office to try to make it work,†he said. “It was somewhat an issue of economics, but really it was the parking issues that couldn’t be addressed.
“One thing I made clear to the mayor, though, was that we want to be as much a part of the community here as possible.â€
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=43292
QuoteFlorida Coastal School of Law has sold its land and building to a New York investment firm for $27 million in a sales-leaseback transaction, according to public records.
FCSL sold the building to Angelo, Gordon & Co. Inc and has signed a 20-year lease for the 225,000 square feet at 8787 Baypine Road, said Brooks Terry, marketing and communications director for the law school, who confirmed that the sale-leaseback ends the possibility of the school moving to Downtown Jacksonville.
“We are not moving. We’re here for at least 20 years as part of the agreement,†Terry said.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2011/02/17/jax-law-school-not-moving-downtown.html
Thanks for that, Lakelander. I'm glad someone at least tried, though it makes me a little sad to see it didn't work. I appreciate that the parking thing is a major issue. But that's something the city will need to work out with prospective tenants until there are enough businesses/schools/residents downtown to make mass transit a feasible option.
In response to an earlier comment, I think downtown is ideal for a commuter school, in that it is centrally-located. Of course, a lot of people work on the southside.
The City could have made it happen if they really wanted to. In the end, it was a fail by that administration (not surprising though).
^Yes, if it were a real priority, a deal could have been worked out even if it meant giving away some parking. Charlotte gave away the house for Johnson & Whales University. However, when they came, that section of Uptown forever changed for the better.
QuoteAfter all, just look to the last election. Despite all the unbeautiful gloating before the fact and the seriously sour grapes afterwards, Arch Conservative Baptist Mike Hogan lost the election to the Democratic African American that frankly nobody had ever heard of before the election. Doesn't sound very conservative when the rubber came down to meeting the road does it?
Sorry, Stephen, but I have to disagree. Jacksonville is very conservative, politically. Yes, it is a surprise of sorts that Hogan lost the election. But that doesn't mean Jacksonville suddenly has become liberal. And I wouldn't consider your new mayor to be very liberal at all. But it was a nice surprise.
I wouldn't consider the presence of Islam to be an indicator of liberalism, either. Muslims aren't known for that. It just means Jacksonville has some Muslims now.
I don't fault Jacksonville for being conservative and religious. It's not as conservative and religious as lots of other Southern towns and cities (in places like MS, TN or AL). But it certainly is more conservative than South Florida and definitely more conservative than the North East USA.
Sure, there are plenty or liberal, progressive or even genuine left-wing types in Jax. But for every one of those, there are plenty of the kind of people I worked with at various call centers and offices and the kind of guys I went to HS and university with.
I think spending a lot of time in Riverside (and its environs), San Marco, Springfield, etc makes things seem a bit better than they really are.
I think the fact someone pipe-bombed the local mosque and the fact that a UNF professor almost couldn't get appointed to the human rights commission (or whatever it was) simply because he was a Muslim speaks volumes about how conservative the city can be.
But we could argue all day and offer competing stories a 'proof' and never agree. But I do think the voting record of the city and the number of churches says a lot.
Quote
I agree 100% on college campuses downtown - but I'm not sure that Florida Coastal or the Art Institute for that matter, would transition as they seem to be commuter schools without much "student/campus life" (imo). Maybe that's how SCAD started? Seems like UNF or JU could offer better extensions.
Regarding BOA, keep in mind that while they don't occupy all floors, they maintain a 43 story iconic presence downtown. BOA's (and Citi, BCBS, Chase, Convergys, etc.) "suburban" campuses are operations/call centers typically built with wide open & expansive production floors/ work spaces - not conducive to high-rise structures. This isn't limited to Jacksonville, rather more of an industry standard in any major city. Citi simply outgrew their building when the mortgage industry went bust & shifted more into collections - I'm sure that it was a lucrative deal to get them to bite on the land "in the middle of nowhere". It's not uncommon for call centers to relocate - even within the same region in an effort to tap into additional demographics (i.e. military/college towns; suburbia) - Convergys is king when it comes to this. Back in the early '80's, when Convergys was still AT&T American Transtech - the story goes that the architect was tasked with "building a skyscraper on its side" for telemarketing & customer service efforts- the purple monster on Baymeadows Way was born (3 stories x 5 "floors").
That's an interesting point and one I failed to consider. I would, however, like to point out that I used to work at Wachovia in the call center (right around the time First Union and Wachovia merged) and our whole call center was located downtown, right by Hemming Plaza. I can't remember the name of the building, but it had a Quiznos on one corner. It wasn't the largest call centre, by any stretch of the imagination. I have no idea if they're still there.
When I worked at BoA, I worked in mortgage loan processing, and all of my counterparts in Charlotte (in mortgage processing) worked at the big BoA building downtown. So it's not impossible. I can appreciate the reasons why you need lots of floor space for large, open-plan call centers. But I think the many hundreds of folks in different mortgage departments at BoA could fit in nicely downtown.
(I worked at Citibank, too, and the less said about that place, the better).
& to YOUR point, Everbank is doing just that.
Quote from: blizz01 on March 27, 2012, 04:25:58 PM
& to YOUR point, Everbank is doing just that.
+1000
QuoteYes, it is a surprise of sorts that Hogan lost the election.
Surprise, hell, it was the surprise of the century so far. Hogan got poor advice and got whipped the last few weeks in the public eye. But alas, we're all now with Alvin, good, bad or indifferent. And if the TU is correct, by 2030, whites will be a minority in Jacksonville. So we got that going for us.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 27, 2012, 04:40:01 PM
QuoteYes, it is a surprise of sorts that Hogan lost the election.
Surprise, hell, it was the surprise of the century so far. Hogan got poor advice and got whipped the last few weeks in the public eye. But alas, we're all now with Alvin, good, bad or indifferent. And if the TU is correct, by 2030, whites will be a minority in Jacksonville. So we got that going for us.
I don't see the racial makeup of the city being a positive or negative thing. It just is.
Quote
Its odd that you spent the first half pooh poohing the significance of the election and then turned to the voting record as your proof. ;)
Oops... I guess I wasn't clear. Sorry about that. I was referring to the way the city has voted over time and in lots of elections, not just in the recent ones.
I guess Duval County is 'moderate' enough to vote for Romney over Santorum. But didn't McCain carry the county in the 2008 Presidential election? I can't remember.
Its interesting how there was no mention of the CoRK event this weekend. Probably because its not downtown.
In the past year, a huge amount of original artists have located bone-fide state of the art studios at CoRK.
After All the years, downtown should be written off, with its only goal along the principles of Noone, the utilization of the natural resources centered but not exclusive, of the St Johns River. And obvious center of local government and destitute aid (provided by many charitable organizations centered downtown.
One needs to accept that these underwater aquifers, wetlands, et al are unique to Jacksonville alone. And thats in the whole world. There is current legislation which is, in a general sense, trying to take away these resources and disrupt them to the more populous and politically powerful south (Orlando).
Culturally speaking, the center has broken away from the hopeless downtown and moved to Riverside. Springfield and San Marco also figure in, but riverside has just blown off the map. There are several great nightclubs downtown, but they've been there too long and should re locate to the urban neighborhoods. And that includes new owners and operators who want to jump into the action.
Jacksonville is easily the cheapest place to live in Florida on the Atlantic coast and hipsters know it and are involved in it.
Thats whats my vision was when I relocated back in 2005 and its succeeded tremendously, although thats in my mind.
And now im off to my studio to say high to Jim Draper, kick ideas with Shaun and Crystal, and collaborate with Morrison
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 27, 2012, 05:33:33 PM
Its interesting how there was no mention of the CoRK event this weekend. Probably because its not downtown.
In the past year, a huge amount of original artists have located bone-fide state of the art studios at CoRK.
After All the years, downtown should be written off, with its only goal along the principles of Noone, the utilization of the natural resources centered but not exclusive, of the St Johns River. And obvious center of local government and destitute aid (provided by many charitable organizations centered downtown.
One needs to accept that these underwater aquifers, wetlands, et al are unique to Jacksonville alone. And thats in the whole world. There is current legislation which is, in a general sense, trying to take away these resources and disrupt them to the more populous and politically powerful south (Orlando).
Culturally speaking, the center has broken away from the hopeless downtown and moved to Riverside. Springfield and San Marco also figure in, but riverside has just blown off the map. There are several great nightclubs downtown, but they've been there too long and should re locate to the urban neighborhoods. And that includes new owners and operators who want to jump into the action.
Jacksonville is easily the cheapest place to live in Florida on the Atlantic coast and hipsters know it and are involved in it.
Thats whats my vision was when I relocated back in 2005 and its succeeded tremendously, although thats in my mind.
And now im off to my studio to say high to Jim Draper, kick ideas with Shaun and Crystal, and collaborate with Morrison
I was there on Sunday. Totally off the hook. This is the kind of thing that makes me proud of Jacksonville and optimistic for the future.
Jacksonville is a conservative city, by far as conservative as they come, but that should by no means preclude progress and urban development.
Examples of conservative cities that are absolutely rocking it are everywhere:
Nashville
Salt Lake City
Indianapolis
San Diego arguably (basically extreme right wing for the Left Coast)
Chattanooga
and there are plenty 'o others
Face the fact that Jacksonville may never be liberal and may never have a vibe like Seattle, Boston or San Francisco politically or otherwise, but it still has an opportunity to grow economically and grow sustainably (and grow period). People can be conservative and still have an appreciation for sustainability, good coffee shops and higher education and that's what Jacksonville needs to transition to - a progressive conservative city rather than a backward conservative city.
Most transplants moving down are largely moving down to escape higher costs of living brought on by absurd policies (which increase everything from local taxes to state taxes to license registration fees to transfer taxes to everything) and brought on by extreme density and extreme barriers to entry. They are escaping the snow. They are escaping overcrowding. Many may consider themselves liberal, especially socially, but they will be the first to admit they are tired of being the benefactors of full tilt liberal ideology (it does cost the average working person a whole lot more than conservative states like FL, TN, and TX and conservative cities like Jacksonville). They don't necessarily want to pack their bags, move down, and then see the millage rate go from 19 to 119. They don't want to shovel snow - and they believe they can guarantee themselves that by moving to FL.
I mean seriously Jacksonville won't become a liberal haven, not even if it becomes a hub for immigration. Immigrants don't want to tax themselves out of opportunity either! What Jax can become is more like a 21st century sunbelt city, which is to say full of conservative citizens and politicians, but also diverse, growing, and embracing of progress - even if it means public transportation and expanded social programs.
And since when and where is Jacksonville "blowing up"? I know there is progress and tons more 1st time homebuyers than there were at the top of the cycle, but population growth has slowed, virtually all construction has halted, and every time I am down I get depressed just seeing the lack of landscaping and at the horrible conditions of the roads (in a state which should not have any road problems or high costs of road maintenance).
Not to rag, but other cities much smaller than Jax are actually seeing lots of new construction of intown infill right now, and I don't mean a storefront here and there but whole mid-rise apartments and hotels, even some office. I wish Jacksonville were seeing more progress, but I'm afraid some people haven't yet woken up and smelled the wilted roses. It's time to put more water in the vase, and maybe the wilted roses will come back. Jacksonville should be seeing a ton of infill going up right now, and a ton of infill at the beach, but I monitor this site closely, including the construction updates, and I'm not really seeing anything that perks my ears.
The beach has killed itself, except for retrofitting strip malls and filling up unsold bland stucco condo inventory and some new subdivision communities. The city spent 8 years killing itself and has not recovered. To me there is still a lot of work to be done before it can be said that the city is "blowing up".
Quote from: simms3 on March 27, 2012, 05:49:23 PM
And since when and where is Jacksonville "blowing up"? I know there is progress and tons more 1st time homebuyers than there were at the top of the cycle, but population growth has slowed, virtually all construction has halted, and every time I am down I get depressed just seeing the lack of landscaping and at the horrible conditions of the roads (in a state which should not have any road problems or high costs of road maintenance).
Not to rag, but other cities much smaller than Jax are actually seeing lots of new construction of intown infill right now, and I don't mean a storefront here and there but whole mid-rise apartments and hotels, even some office. I wish Jacksonville were seeing more progress, but I'm afraid some people haven't yet woken up and smelled the wilted roses. It's time to put more water in the vase, and maybe the wilted roses will come back. Jacksonville should be seeing a ton of infill going up right now, and a ton of infill at the beach, but I monitor this site closely, including the construction updates, and I'm not really seeing anything that perks my ears.
The beach has killed itself, except for retrofitting strip malls and filling up unsold bland stucco condo inventory and some new subdivision communities. The city spent 8 years killing itself and has not recovered. To me there is still a lot of work to be done before it can be said that the city is "blowing up".
You and I are talking apple and oranges. In terms of culture, pop and otherwise, I do admire your 5 choices. But J(action)ville out rocks them all. If you want to make financial worth, umm yeah, you're right, Jax isn't a good choice.
But if you like it loud and original, the town of Skynyrd, Limp Biscuit, the Black Kids ect ect ect is the place to be!
Quote from: simms3 on March 27, 2012, 05:49:23 PM
And since when and where is Jacksonville "blowing up"? I know there is progress and tons more 1st time homebuyers than there were at the top of the cycle, but population growth has slowed, virtually all construction has halted, and every time I am down I get depressed just seeing the lack of landscaping and at the horrible conditions of the roads (in a state which should not have any road problems or high costs of road maintenance).
Not to rag, but other cities much smaller than Jax are actually seeing lots of new construction of intown infill right now, and I don't mean a storefront here and there but whole mid-rise apartments and hotels, even some office. I wish Jacksonville were seeing more progress, but I'm afraid some people haven't yet woken up and smelled the wilted roses. It's time to put more water in the vase, and maybe the wilted roses will come back. Jacksonville should be seeing a ton of infill going up right now, and a ton of infill at the beach, but I monitor this site closely, including the construction updates, and I'm not really seeing anything that perks my ears.
The beach has killed itself, except for retrofitting strip malls and filling up unsold bland stucco condo inventory and some new subdivision communities. The city spent 8 years killing itself and has not recovered. To me there is still a lot of work to be done before it can be said that the city is "blowing up".
Jacksonville is NOT blowing up and the way it's going right now, it never will. I just wish people would see that and get with the program. I want people to see what I see instead of just putting in a place like SJTC and say "Oh, Jacksonville is blowing up." There needs to be a change in mentality and it needs to start now. Incase anyone noticed, everyone laughs at Jacksonville. They hate Jacksonville because of how backwards it is. People can say what they want to disagree and defend its "progress". When I see some real progress, that's when I will be convinced.
OK, thats 2 against (anti redneck and simms3) and thats two for (myself and Tacachale) with the edge going to against since they (anti redneck) started the thread!
Lol, if I want real estate info, I'll listen to simms. If I want random opinions, I'll listen to anti redneck. But if I want to know what's happening in the local art scene, sorry guys, I'm listening to Jerry.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 27, 2012, 06:51:04 PM
Lol, if I want real estate info, I'll listen to simms. If I want random opinions, I'll listen to anti redneck. But if I want to know what's happening in the local art scene, sorry guys, I'm listening to Jerry.
Tentative show local street art show May 12th CoRK mainly wheat paste 6pm to 9 pm (not really) oh, no baby strollers!
Thanks Tacachale ;)
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 27, 2012, 06:38:22 PM
OK, thats 2 against (anti redneck and simms3) and thats two for (myself and Tacachale) with the edge going to against since they (anti redneck) started the thread!
???? Don't know what you mean right there. But that's beside the point. I started this thread because I want to hear everyone's ideas on here that could possibly become carried out. I'm hoping this thread gets somewhere up to where someone on the inside hears about all of this and maybe puts them to use.
Back to the topic, what's your idea of what Jacksonville could become?
Quote from: Tacachale on March 27, 2012, 06:51:04 PM
Lol, if I want real estate info, I'll listen to simms. If I want random opinions, I'll listen to anti redneck. But if I want to know what's happening in the local art scene, sorry guys, I'm listening to Jerry.
And taccy (can I call you that?), what's your idea of what Jacksonville could become?
Quote from: Noone on March 26, 2012, 11:21:32 PM
Hmm.... I might. What did you have in mind? I'll admit I do have a fright of meeting people from the internet.
Anti redneck,
We could meet At Jacksonville's Tradeport Pier. Bay St. Pier Park. Its across from the jail and next to the skeleton of Berkman II. Plenty of surveilance cameras around.
I was thinking of bringing my golf clubs and we can hit a few. Are you game? I'm serious. Don't bring your fishing pole or we will definately get cited for that.
[/quote]
Let me think a little bit on that. Sounds tempting though.
Quote from: blizz01 on March 26, 2012, 04:05:35 PM
I find it hard to be bored in this city - & I've never been considered a simpleton. You really aren't trying hard enough if you feel that there's nothing to do. I can spend a day in ANY quadrant of North Florida & get into something. There are certainly pockets (& events) in Jacksonville that wouldn't go unnoticed in other major cities - we tend to take them for granted. There's been no shortage of concerts or festivals YTD - I swear every week there seems to be something happening at one or more venues (including Ponte Vedra & St. Aug amphitheatre). I contend that you could drop all of (charming) Avondale into another metro area & it would/could be just as - if not more, of a destination. I really believe that Mr. Khan is going to bring a strong influence beyond football ownership as already evidenced in his statements & immediate involvement (albeit limited) downtown. I would also like to see a marketing push to ram the Jags down everyone's throats - whether in the airport, or down I-95. I have always felt that we don't advertise the obvious enough when & where necessary. Everyone knows that Disney is down in Orlando, but they still show up on our billboards. Sensationalize a road trip from downtown to Fernandina - a beautiful drive including the Mayport Ferry (for years to come, let's hope). Leverage St. Augustine - it's a top 5 (or 3 in some lists) tourist destination in Florida - hard to get there without passing through JAX for most - they're watching our broadcasts on network television down there too! Get the Amtrak routes in order; offer more (any)international flights out of JIA (especially to the Car ribbean); extend the Skyway - at least one more time to the Sports Complex; put a big neon arrow on the Fuller Warren advertising RAM; pound your chest about the local breweries/tours offered (including A/B); offer river taxi service or a riverboat cruise from downtown to our "above average" zoo; get excited about our beaches & the cool vibe that Jax Beach has to offer; embrace (not shun) the multitude of shopping/dining options @ SJTC; put a historical marker on every remaining building of significance downtown reflecting on any & all notable details; keep the momentum going with downtown nightlife....Oh yeah, bring football to UNF. ;)
+1
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 28, 2012, 04:37:27 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on March 27, 2012, 06:51:04 PM
Lol, if I want real estate info, I'll listen to simms. If I want random opinions, I'll listen to anti redneck. But if I want to know what's happening in the local art scene, sorry guys, I'm listening to Jerry.
And taccy (can I call you that?), what's your idea of what Jacksonville could become?
Like many other on the board, I can see increased connectivity between our increasingly vibrant core neighborhoods and Downtown. I can see Jacksonville extending its well-earned reputation as a business friendly city to sustainable small business growth, particularly in the urban core. I can see us capitalizing better on our abundant natural resources, which are about the best kept secret in the state. All of these things would go a long way to shaking off the city's annoying inferiority complex and cultivate a better sense of identity.
As for specifics, I'd like to nurture our growing brewing industry and art scene. Stuff like this will always be a DIY enterprise but we can certainly embrace it as part of the Jacksonville experience. I'd like better public transit to connect our neighborhoods and promote infill development in the core. In business I'd like to focus on a few key areas where we stand out and promote the hell out of them. I'd push for the carrier relocation, port improvements and a full blown medical school located downtown.
We often have a hard time sustaining our momentum and finding strong leadership. That is something else I'd like to see improved - more public involvement and buy in in local government.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 28, 2012, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 28, 2012, 04:37:27 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on March 27, 2012, 06:51:04 PM
Lol, if I want real estate info, I'll listen to simms. If I want random opinions, I'll listen to anti redneck. But if I want to know what's happening in the local art scene, sorry guys, I'm listening to Jerry.
And taccy (can I call you that?), what's your idea of what Jacksonville could become?
Like many other on the board, I can see increased connectivity between our increasingly vibrant core neighborhoods and Downtown. I can see Jacksonville extending its well-earned reputation as a business friendly city to sustainable small business growth, particularly in the urban core. I can see us capitalizing better on our abundant natural resources, which are about the best kept secret in the state. All of these things would go a long way to shaking off the city's annoying inferiority complex and cultivate a better sense of identity.
As for specifics, I'd like to nurture our growing brewing industry and art scene. Stuff like this will always be a DIY enterprise but we can certainly embrace it as part of the Jacksonville experience. I'd like better public transit to connect our neighborhoods and promote infill development in the core. In business I'd like to focus on a few key areas where we stand out and promote the hell out of them. I'd push for the carrier relocation, port improvements and a full blown medical school located downtown.
We often have a hard time sustaining our momentum and finding strong leadership. That is something else I'd like to see improved - more public involvement and buy in in local government.
Well I do agree with the idea of light rail to connect neighborhoods, as it would eliminate whole concept of keeping everyone isolated in their own parts of town. Many others have brought that up as well. The question is, how can that be carried out? It sounds as if a lot of people support it. Something like that needs to be beaten inside city leaders' heads!
Quote
Well I do agree with the idea of light rail to connect neighborhoods, as it would eliminate whole concept of keeping everyone isolated in their own parts of town. Many others have brought that up as well. The question is, how can that be carried out? It sounds as if a lot of people support it. Something like that needs to be beaten inside city leaders' heads!
While I agree, I think we'd need to get people to start using their cars. Rail by itself might not do that, as people are married to the idea of using cars. If downtown was built up (and a place to work), people could see the advantage of using rail, b/c they wouldn't have to pay for parking and could commute quicker.
As it stands, I don't see people regularly using a train (or tram or bus) to get to the mall or the beach. People love their cars and the culture of using rail or mass transit wouldn't just exist if the options were there. It would need to be cultivated - and the only way to get people to change their habits is to offer an incentive (of sorts).
At least that's what I think.
Quote from: JeffreyS on March 26, 2012, 03:08:43 PM
Jacksonville has great suburbs, historical neighborhoods, Beaches, rivers, office parks, port, rural areas, recreational parks what we do not have is a great urban area. Five Points, SJTC and the beach have some good urban elements but that is it. We have good tourist, military, professional and industrial money here. What is lacking is a real Urban area that would benefit our entire communities quality of life.
Our Downtown has great bones and infrastructure so we can add the missing element to our mix and the will is growing. We need to make the core easier to do business in with less sign ordinances, parking meters, reduce sidewalk business restrictions and the like. We need to connect our core better through free skyway and bus ordination. (Streetcar would be great bang for the buck but not an absolute requirement.) We need some leadership (that I think we are seeing) on making the existing towers engage the city at pedestrian level.
We don't need to beat the mouse we need to have all the QOL options of multiple lifestyles close enough for us to visit then leave the mouse.
Where does the tourist money come from?
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 29, 2012, 04:47:00 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on March 26, 2012, 03:08:43 PM
Jacksonville has great suburbs, historical neighborhoods, Beaches, rivers, office parks, port, rural areas, recreational parks what we do not have is a great urban area. Five Points, SJTC and the beach have some good urban elements but that is it. We have good tourist, military, professional and industrial money here. What is lacking is a real Urban area that would benefit our entire communities quality of life.
Our Downtown has great bones and infrastructure so we can add the missing element to our mix and the will is growing. We need to make the core easier to do business in with less sign ordinances, parking meters, reduce sidewalk business restrictions and the like. We need to connect our core better through free skyway and bus ordination. (Streetcar would be great bang for the buck but not an absolute requirement.) We need some leadership (that I think we are seeing) on making the existing towers engage the city at pedestrian level.
We don't need to beat the mouse we need to have all the QOL options of multiple lifestyles close enough for us to visit then leave the mouse.
Where does the tourist money come from?
Very good point. Its just my experience that, from a general view point, Jacksonville isnt such a great place to visit. Its a great place to live. Once you live here, you start to discover how many great places there are. To go.
^The tourism industry in the region is actually pretty vibrant, though it's dwarfed by other parts of the state. Visit Jacksonville should have some concrete numbers. The main contributors to the tourism industry here are golf, the beach, the waterways, and to an extent big events that are held here. IIRC in Duval County we get over a million annual hotel visitors, and the impact of tourism is like $1 billion dollars. Including the surrounding counties (especially St. Johns, with things like Sawgrass and St. Augustine), the impact is even greater.
This is small potatoes compared to much of the rest of Florida, but it's a good chunk of the local economy.
Two sports-related things I'd love to see:
1) The Jacksonville Suns are a great team and I really enjoy the games, but Jacksonville should be a Triple A city. I know the logistics are difficult (buying a Triple A franchise and relocating the existing team), but this really should be a 5-10 year goal for the city of Jacksonville.
2) Personally, I'd love to see minor league hockey back in Jacksonville at the Arena. With the Jaguars, Florida/Georgia, the Sharks, Suns baseball, Giants basketball, TPC, and WTA Tennis in Amelia Island, the only major sport that doesn't have a decent local presence (that I know of) is hockey. Would be great to see it back and well promoted in Jacksonville.
I am with Simms in believing that the market will tell you how your city is doing. In cities all across the country you see urban infill developments in cities both larger and smaller than Jax. Gainesville is adding over 1,000+ multi-family units within a half mile of their downtown. In atlanta, you couldn't go a quarter mile without seeing a new development. Jacksonville has no significant development going on near the core, and that speaks to the vibrancy of our local market. Thousands of units are going in near 9A and Baymeadows. They actually clear cut another 100+ acres to do so, when a mile to the north there is already a gridded, platted, leveled, vacant development site that is about 70 acres.
The market doesn't see urban jacksonville as a viable option for development. That is reflective of our restrictive policies, auto-centric mentality, lack of a creative class, and relatively small young professional class. We need to change these poisonous conditions and then the developments will happen automatically. In this day and age, the core should be stealing residents from the 'burbs. That is what is happening all over the country. In Jax, the opposite is still happening like it's 2003.
Quote from: KenFSU on March 29, 2012, 10:31:52 AM
2) Personally, I'd love to see minor league hockey back in Jacksonville at the Arena. With the Jaguars, Florida/Georgia, the Sharks, Suns baseball, Giants basketball, TPC, and WTA Tennis in Amelia Island, the only major sport that doesn't have a decent local presence (that I know of) is hockey. Would be great to see it back and well promoted in Jacksonville.
The Amelia Island tennis tourney is now defunct. They moved it to PV a couple years ago and then did away with it. I think it had more to do with the WTA then it did with the location though. I'm with you on the AAA team. They had an opportunity a couple of years ago with the Braves I think but it didn't happen.
Quote from: cline on March 29, 2012, 11:44:44 AM
Quote from: KenFSU on March 29, 2012, 10:31:52 AM
2) Personally, I'd love to see minor league hockey back in Jacksonville at the Arena. With the Jaguars, Florida/Georgia, the Sharks, Suns baseball, Giants basketball, TPC, and WTA Tennis in Amelia Island, the only major sport that doesn't have a decent local presence (that I know of) is hockey. Would be great to see it back and well promoted in Jacksonville.
The Amelia Island tennis tourney is now defunct. They moved it to PV a couple years ago and then did away with it. I think it had more to do with the WTA then it did with the location though. I'm with you on the AAA team. They had an opportunity a couple of years ago with the Braves I think but it didn't happen.
I was sad to learn the Barracudas had left or folded. I went to a few of their games and had a great time.
Why AAA baseball? I don't think it would make financial sense since the closest teams would be Charlotte and Gwinett. Florida just doesn't fit the Pacific Coast League or International League territory.
^We should pursue AAA baseball because we're an appropriately sized city, have a proven history of supporting minor league baseball, and, significantly, we've already got a AAA stadium. True, it would be tricky to land a team for several reasons, but it could be done pretty quickly if we prioritize it. I'd hope we could keep the Suns name though.
I agree with the about hockey. An ECHL team at the Arena would be a good fit for us, if not AHL.
I also think we'd make a good market for pro soccer, at least in the second or third tier leagues. I'd also like to see UNF and JU basketball become more competitive and a bigger draw for the community.
Whatever happened to the Jacksonville Lizard Kings...?!
Quote from: Tacachale on March 29, 2012, 02:07:24 PM
^We should pursue AAA baseball because we're an appropriately sized city, have a proven history of supporting minor league baseball, and, significantly, we've already got a AAA stadium. True, it would be tricky to land a team for several reasons, but it could be done pretty quickly if we prioritize it. I'd hope we could keep the Suns name though.
I agree with the about hockey. An ECHL team at the Arena would be a good fit for us, if not AHL.
I also think we'd make a good market for pro soccer, at least in the second or third tier leagues. I'd also like to see UNF and JU basketball become more competitive and a bigger draw for the community.
Pro soccer is a good idea. There are a lot of soccer fans in Jax and I think their numbers will grow. They could play in a smaller stadium and not have to play in a mostly-empty Gator Bowl.
Quote from: fsquid on March 29, 2012, 01:54:21 PM
Why AAA baseball? I don't think it would make financial sense since the closest teams would be Charlotte and Gwinett. Florida just doesn't fit the Pacific Coast League or International League territory.
Well, before Pensacola joined the league (this year) the closest Southern League teams to Jax were Mobile and Montgomery, both about equally as far as Charlotte and Gwinnett.
Oh wow! the Lizard Kings! brings back some memroies from high school days. Personally, I am fine with the AA ball club. I enjoy going to the games.
Quote from: Adam W on March 29, 2012, 02:18:07 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on March 29, 2012, 02:07:24 PM
^We should pursue AAA baseball because we're an appropriately sized city, have a proven history of supporting minor league baseball, and, significantly, we've already got a AAA stadium. True, it would be tricky to land a team for several reasons, but it could be done pretty quickly if we prioritize it. I'd hope we could keep the Suns name though.
I agree with the about hockey. An ECHL team at the Arena would be a good fit for us, if not AHL.
I also think we'd make a good market for pro soccer, at least in the second or third tier leagues. I'd also like to see UNF and JU basketball become more competitive and a bigger draw for the community.
Pro soccer is a good idea. There are a lot of soccer fans in Jax and I think their numbers will grow. They could play in a smaller stadium and not have to play in a mostly-empty Gator Bowl.
In the early 80's Jax had the Tea Men. The also had the Cyclones in the 90's.
Quote from: cline on March 29, 2012, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: fsquid on March 29, 2012, 01:54:21 PM
Why AAA baseball? I don't think it would make financial sense since the closest teams would be Charlotte and Gwinett. Florida just doesn't fit the Pacific Coast League or International League territory.
Well, before Pensacola joined the league (this year) the closest Southern League teams to Jax were Mobile and Montgomery, both about equally as far as Charlotte and Gwinnett.
Good point, hadn't thought of that. I guess you don't have the long trips into the Northeast and Midwest with the current layout though. It doesn't have anything to do with being an "appropriately sized city", it has to do with what the current owners think they can make money off of.
^There's no doubt an owner would make money here, especially with the stadium basically ready to go. The travel issue isn't really that much of an issue. The real issue would be current owners of the Suns, who'd have to sell the AA franchise. Historically they haven't wanted to (they've got a sweet deal here, playing in an excellent park they didn't pay for in a city of 1.3 million; they top their league in attendance even with their pretty lackluster marketing). But like I say, it could happen right quick if city leadership prioritized it. We built a AAA park, it's time to see some AAA ball in it.
QuoteWe built a AAA park, it's time to see some AAA ball in it.
I'm not convinced that it's worth the effort right now. How much of a drop off is there from AAA to AA? To me, AA is seems to be where you'll see most of your prospects & on-deck stars (who skip AAA altogether - like Stanton); whereas AAA seems to be somewhat stagant & house older/journeymen players - albeit, overall I'd agree that the cumulative talent level in AAA is better. I also like that when the stud players are rehabbing, they will typically drop to AA & often pass through the Baseball Grounds. Considering that they're both minor/farm league entities, what does Jacksonville stand to gain if we're already setting attendance records based on the current/recognized brand? Not much accomplished in fighting for AAA; I say all or nothing - go for the BIGS! (Or, use the stadium for MLS games, too). ;)
AAA is where a MLB team parks the 15 players who are a part of the 40 man roster, but not the 25 MLB roster. The latest trend has been to keep your top prospects in AA, playing against other top young prospects and then calling them straight up. AAA is being used more for rehab assignments and to house the 15 players I described above. You are going to see good baseball regardless of which team is here.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 29, 2012, 02:36:58 PM
^There's no doubt an owner would make money here, especially with the stadium basically ready to go. The travel issue isn't really that much of an issue. The real issue would be current owners of the Suns, who'd have to sell the AA franchise. Historically they haven't wanted to (they've got a sweet deal here, playing in an excellent park they didn't pay for in a city of 1.3 million; they top their league in attendance even with their pretty lackluster marketing). But like I say, it could happen right quick if city leadership prioritized it. We built a AAA park, it's time to see some AAA ball in it.
They top the league in attendance because they play in the largest market in their league. They also have a good in-game experience that caters to many different folks on different nights.
Yes, the owner would have to sell to get a AAA team but their would also have to be a AAA team available and willing to move from down to Jax. Like I said there was an opportunity with the Braves a few years ago, it didn't happen. I think there's other more pressing priorities right now.
Quote from: fsquid on March 29, 2012, 03:15:29 PM
AAA is where a MLB team parks the 15 players who are a part of the 40 man roster, but not the 25 MLB roster. The latest trend has been to keep your top prospects in AA, playing against other top young prospects and then calling them straight up. AAA is being used more for rehab assignments and to house the 15 players I described above. You are going to see good baseball regardless of which team is here.
This is true. Many of the top prospects go directly from AA into the bigs. That's why we got to see Mike Stanton (I mean Giancarlo Stanton) kill it here and then get called up directly to the Marlins in the same season (2010).
What we'd stand to gain with AAA baseball would be a higher profile and a much higher revenue and attendance ceiling. Generally speaking AAA teams make a lot more money than lower level teams, which means more revenue for the city. The Suns top out their league in attendance with about 4-5,000 fans a game. However, some teams are attracting 8, 9, and 10,000 fans a game, and a much higher proportion of them are AAA. Even if they kept the same ticket prices, that's a ton more people and money coming through our downtown 70 nights a year.
And because profit margins on minor league baseball teams are so high (especially in a great sports town like Jax), the jump could be made for little cost to the city beyond perhaps some basic incentives.
I do agree that the Suns have been terrific for Jacksonville and AA is quality baseball, and I'd really hope we could keep the Suns branding. And yes, there are more pressing things to worry about. But I think this is a logical step that would be relatively easy to pull off.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 29, 2012, 02:07:24 PM
I agree with the about hockey. An ECHL team at the Arena would be a good fit for us, if not AHL.
I'd buy season tickets for either on day one.
I lived down in the Fort Myers/Naples area until I was 18, and those Florida Everblades ECHL games were just fantastic. Probably the only minor league team I've seen whose tickets were routinely selling above face value by scalpers outside the arena.
On Triple A baseball, to me, it's taking the logical next step in growing as a baseball city and laying the ground work for a future MLB team in Jacksonville. Sure, the very notion of an MLB team is patently ridiculous right now, but so much can and will change in the next 20 years as the region continues to grow that you just never know. With rumors of MLB eventually adding two more teams, turbulence with the Rays in St. Pete, and several other teams severely underperforming at the box office, there's going to be quite a bit of movement in the next two decades. If we don't start thinking big in the short term, we're going to get caught with our pants down in the long term. On a side note, how incredible would a waterfront PNC/Pac Bell style baseball park look on the river?
Quote from: ben says on March 29, 2012, 02:17:02 PM
Whatever happened to the Jacksonville Lizard Kings...?!
The Lizard Kings played in the old Coliseum. They put in four good years but were losing money and said they didn't think they could make it work in the aging Coliseum. They suspended operations in 2000 in anticipation of the current Arena being built.
Unlike most minor league sports teams who "suspend operations", the Lizard Kings actually stayed active in the league and apparently did intend to return. However, in 2002 they got into a bidding war with the group that became the Jacksonville Barracudas over a lease at the Arena. In the end the Barracudas won the agreement and started play in 2002, even though it meant playing a full year in the much derided Coliseum.
In retrospect it's probably too bad it happened that way, since the Lizard Kings were in a much more stable league (the ECHL). The Barracudas ended up jumping leagues twice, never having great finances, and ultimately fell into a situation that probably wasn't a great fit for such a large (and expensive) arena in a city of this size.
I've always felt that Jacksonville is a fertile hockey market that's just had bad luck with its franchises.
JAX is way too small for a MLB franchise. You have to draw a 20k for 81 home dates. With the way this metro is spread out, there is no way you are going to be able to draw that for a Tues. night matchup against the Royals.
A Stadium open to the River would be very cool.
No clue if a AAA team "raises the profile" of the city. Can't say I think of Rochester, Pawtucket, and Norfolk more highly because they have AAA teams.
Agree with some of the previous posters...AA is plenty good. Between 1994-96, when the Suns were still affiliated with the Mariners I saw Edgar Martinez rehab, Carlos Delgado come through with the Blue Jays for two years, and was at Alex Rodriguez's last minor league game (it was a rainout, but he hung around with his family/friends outside the locker room after he found out he'd been called up). I think there are bigger things to focus on than upgrading from AA to AAA-baseball.
Quote from: KenFSU on March 29, 2012, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on March 29, 2012, 02:07:24 PM
how incredible would a waterfront PNC/Pac Bell style baseball park look on the river?
Isn't the current stadium pretty new?
Quote from: cline on March 29, 2012, 02:21:54 PM
Quote from: Adam W on March 29, 2012, 02:18:07 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on March 29, 2012, 02:07:24 PM
^We should pursue AAA baseball because we're an appropriately sized city, have a proven history of supporting minor league baseball, and, significantly, we've already got a AAA stadium. True, it would be tricky to land a team for several reasons, but it could be done pretty quickly if we prioritize it. I'd hope we could keep the Suns name though.
I agree with the about hockey. An ECHL team at the Arena would be a good fit for us, if not AHL.
I also think we'd make a good market for pro soccer, at least in the second or third tier leagues. I'd also like to see UNF and JU basketball become more competitive and a bigger draw for the community.
Pro soccer is a good idea. There are a lot of soccer fans in Jax and I think their numbers will grow. They could play in a smaller stadium and not have to play in a mostly-empty Gator Bowl.
In the early 80's Jax had the Tea Men. The also had the Cyclones in the 90's.
Yeah, I used to go to Tea Men games. They weren't that popular, but the NASL was on its last legs by that time anyway. Nowadays, I think Jax could support a lower-league pro team (not a first tier team like the Tea Men).
Officially hijacked - we could start a whole new baseball thread, really. BTW, I saw Michael Jordan play when he cam through town years ago. Anyone old enough to remember Tug McGraw or Nolan Ryan? OR, Hank Aaron for that matter (Jacksonville Braves?)?
Quote from: blandman on March 29, 2012, 04:29:30 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on March 29, 2012, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on March 29, 2012, 02:07:24 PM
how incredible would a waterfront PNC/Pac Bell style baseball park look on the river?
Isn't the current stadium pretty new?
Yes, less than ten years old and quite nice.
I was talking long-term hypothetical, if Jax ever managed to land an MLB team.
Look at average MLB home attendance last year. 15 of the 30 teams averaged fewer than 27,000 a game, and three teams averaged less than 19,000 a game. These numbers are only going to decline. Give it 20 years, build a cozy retro 27,000 to 30,000 seat riverfront ballpark, price tickets in the same range as the Rays and Marlins, and MLB baseball could just work in Jacksonville. That kind of foot traffic 81 days a year would almost single handedly revitalize that portion of a city's downtown (see: Target Field). A pipe dream for now, but that doesn't mean it's unattainable in our lifetimes.
Mayor Brown has indicated that he's like to see an NBA franchise in JAX - I'm not convinced that it could survive with the game frequency & ticket prices - but, if the AFL can get ~13,000+ with that product, who knows....Just get us in the International Soccer/MLS mix & I'd be happy.
MLB or NBA, one of the additions would be nice. It could be supported if more people moved here. More people would move here if there was more opportunity here. Anywho, blizz, what is your vision of the city?
QuoteAnywho, blizz, what is your vision of the city?
Haha - he're my input from a few days ago...
QuoteI find it hard to be bored in this city - & I've never been considered a simpleton. You really aren't trying hard enough if you feel that there's nothing to do. I can spend a day in ANY quadrant of North Florida & get into something. There are certainly pockets (& events) in Jacksonville that wouldn't go unnoticed in other major cities - we tend to take them for granted. There's been no shortage of concerts or festivals YTD - I swear every week there seems to be something happening at one or more venues (including Ponte Vedra & St. Aug amphitheatre). I contend that you could drop all of (charming) Avondale into another metro area & it would/could be just as - if not more, of a destination. I really believe that Mr. Khan is going to bring a strong influence beyond football ownership as already evidenced in his statements & immediate involvement (albeit limited) downtown. I would also like to see a marketing push to ram the Jags down everyone's throats - whether in the airport, or down I-95. I have always felt that we don't advertise the obvious enough when & where necessary. Everyone knows that Disney is down in Orlando, but they still show up on our billboards. Sensationalize a road trip from downtown to Fernandina - a beautiful drive including the Mayport Ferry (for years to come, let's hope). Leverage St. Augustine - it's a top 5 (or 3 in some lists) tourist destination in Florida - hard to get there without passing through JAX for most - they're watching our broadcasts on network television down there too! Get the Amtrak routes in order; offer more (any)international flights out of JIA (especially to the Car ribbean); extend the Skyway - at least one more time to the Sports Complex; put a big neon arrow on the Fuller Warren advertising RAM; pound your chest about the local breweries/tours offered (including A/B); offer river taxi service or a riverboat cruise from downtown to our "above average" zoo; get excited about our beaches & the cool vibe that Jax Beach has to offer; embrace (not shun) the multitude of shopping/dining options @ SJTC; put a historical marker on every remaining building of significance downtown reflecting on any & all notable details; keep the momentum going with downtown nightlife....Oh yeah, bring football to UNF.
Quote from: blizz01 on March 29, 2012, 05:13:04 PM
QuoteAnywho, blizz, what is your vision of the city?
Haha - he're my input from a few days ago...
QuoteI find it hard to be bored in this city - & I've never been considered a simpleton. You really aren't trying hard enough if you feel that there's nothing to do. I can spend a day in ANY quadrant of North Florida & get into something. There are certainly pockets (& events) in Jacksonville that wouldn't go unnoticed in other major cities - we tend to take them for granted. There's been no shortage of concerts or festivals YTD - I swear every week there seems to be something happening at one or more venues (including Ponte Vedra & St. Aug amphitheatre). I contend that you could drop all of (charming) Avondale into another metro area & it would/could be just as - if not more, of a destination. I really believe that Mr. Khan is going to bring a strong influence beyond football ownership as already evidenced in his statements & immediate involvement (albeit limited) downtown. I would also like to see a marketing push to ram the Jags down everyone's throats - whether in the airport, or down I-95. I have always felt that we don't advertise the obvious enough when & where necessary. Everyone knows that Disney is down in Orlando, but they still show up on our billboards. Sensationalize a road trip from downtown to Fernandina - a beautiful drive including the Mayport Ferry (for years to come, let's hope). Leverage St. Augustine - it's a top 5 (or 3 in some lists) tourist destination in Florida - hard to get there without passing through JAX for most - they're watching our broadcasts on network television down there too! Get the Amtrak routes in order; offer more (any)international flights out of JIA (especially to the Car ribbean); extend the Skyway - at least one more time to the Sports Complex; put a big neon arrow on the Fuller Warren advertising RAM; pound your chest about the local breweries/tours offered (including A/B); offer river taxi service or a riverboat cruise from downtown to our "above average" zoo; get excited about our beaches & the cool vibe that Jax Beach has to offer; embrace (not shun) the multitude of shopping/dining options @ SJTC; put a historical marker on every remaining building of significance downtown reflecting on any & all notable details; keep the momentum going with downtown nightlife....Oh yeah, bring football to UNF.
Every city has a "SJTC", if not 2 or 3. It's nothing new. How do you attract people to the beaches? How do you incorporate on the beaches? How do you advertise the zoo to visitors? If visitors are going to St. Auggie from South Florida, they don't have to even look at Jax. International flights, skyway extension, +2. Airport/JTA needs to do something about that. I'm sorry, but I'm not too familiar with RAM. What concerts have come through? What types of music? Me personally, I like the hard stuff. Anything for me? How do you promote downtown nightlife? How do you incorporate on it? Bring football to UNF, +1 on that.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 29, 2012, 10:50:03 AM
I am with Simms in believing that the market will tell you how your city is doing. In cities all across the country you see urban infill developments in cities both larger and smaller than Jax. Gainesville is adding over 1,000+ multi-family units within a half mile of their downtown. In atlanta, you couldn't go a quarter mile without seeing a new development. Jacksonville has no significant development going on near the core, and that speaks to the vibrancy of our local market. Thousands of units are going in near 9A and Baymeadows. They actually clear cut another 100+ acres to do so, when a mile to the north there is already a gridded, platted, leveled, vacant development site that is about 70 acres.
The market doesn't see urban jacksonville as a viable option for development. That is reflective of our restrictive policies, auto-centric mentality, lack of a creative class, and relatively small young professional class. We need to change these poisonous conditions and then the developments will happen automatically. In this day and age, the core should be stealing residents from the 'burbs. That is what is happening all over the country. In Jax, the opposite is still happening like it's 2003.
I concur this. Let's see urban core make some strides. From the pictures of beach construction updates, things are looking nice out there. The urban core could take some lessons.
^^^Nobody should take lessons from the beach, that is Jacksonville Beach. The good beach example for an urban beach is obviously Miami Beach and the good example for a planned, semi-urban beach is Seaside. Atlantic Beach to me is much more impressive than Jacksonville Beach, even though it is much smaller. I think Jax Beach is tacky, dirty, crimey (perception), poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs. Atlantic Beach is mixed-income, but has a much better/nicer "facade", is more pedestrian/bike friendly, and while there are all income levels, it seems more like the people are better educated and have better jobs.
Now on to Jax...my personal vision does not include fixed-rail transit for at least 10 years. I may be blasted for this, but the city doesn't even have the basics down or the mentality or really even the density to make it work. Cities like Seattle and Minneapolis are some of the densest in the country, and highly successful urban cities, and they have gotten by with 3-4 million people and no trains. Kansas City has far denser neighborhoods than Jacksonville and is far more vibrant, and larger, and it functions just fine without trains.
Trains are good, but the people and the city have to want and to need the trains. Just having trains won't bring companies to Jacksonville and won't automatically provide the demand for infill. First you have to have a pool of people who want to be downtown and in the core, with or without trains. Then you have to have enough of a central commuting pattern whereby there is actual gridlock enough to warrant rush hour demand for trains and a political demand for the cost of trains.
There are just too many things Jacksonville should tackle first. There need to be more "destinations." There needs to be more of an energy. Most of what makes Charlotte work is the energy of its leadership and the people. Outside of Uptown and the South End, it is not particularly dense, even around the LYNX. But, Uptown is where everyone goes to work, eat, play. It's "the" place to be. Not only that, there is twice as much rentable square feet there, and occupancy is better than Jax, AND there are thousands of residents living in tons of new highrises and low-rise communities.
IF downtown can figure its self out, attract office tenants, build more office space and get a sizable working population, AND we create more destinations like a train station to tie to, a new convention center, a waterfront park, AND there is a demand to live downtown or close by and infill starts occuring along the riverfronts and in Lavilla/Brooklyn/Springfield, then trains might be feasible and worth it.
It's totally fine otherwise to have highly individual neighborhoods that are popular in their own right. And by popular I mean there is actually a good amount of infill going on. Riverside might be popular for Jax, but look at condo sales and new construction. Nobody wants to move there, even with the already highly discounted prices. In Springfield it's impossible to build something new (or so it seems), and believe me, if Riverside ain't booming there is no way in hell Springfield is going to be on the UP.
I think money needs to be spent on infrastructure for the rail yards and the port (not necessarily deepening, but everything else). Money DEFINITELY needs to be spent on image. Advertising is a component, but so is beautifying the horrifying drive in from JIA which is the last thing out of town visitors need to see. Also - landscaping goes a long way. It literally "looks" like the city is in poorhouse, and I can tell you that from an aesthetic perspective Riverside-Avondale-Ortega look like they are in worse shape than they were 5 years ago, and these are supposed to be the crown jewels of the inner areas.
A LOT of the wealthy in Ortega/Avondale/San Marco moved to the beach in this down economy, or at least bought houses there to live (they won't come off their prices on the river intown - and it's sad that nobody even values these 7,000 sf 1920s riverfront mansions with yards at more than $2M, where they would sell for at least twice that in almost any other 1M+ metro).
My vision for Jax is for city leaders and local business leaders find a way to bring the city into the 21st century and start competing for quality jobs and for college educated professionals under the age of 35. Then my vision may change to trains and professional sports teams, etc.
Simms, how can we get your ideas carried out?
And furthermore, Mayor Brown wants to "revitalize downtown". How can we make ourselves be heard with the ideas on here? This is all really good stuff! He would truly be more successful if he heard us out and carried through with a little input from us.
QuoteNobody should take lessons from the beach, that is Jacksonville Beach. The good beach example for an urban beach is obviously Miami Beach and the good example for a planned, semi-urban beach is Seaside. Atlantic Beach to me is much more impressive than Jacksonville Beach, even though it is much smaller. I think Jax Beach is tacky, dirty, crimey (perception), poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs. Atlantic Beach is mixed-income, but has a much better/nicer "facade", is more pedestrian/bike friendly, and while there are all income levels, it seems more like the people are better educated and have better jobs.
Wow, sounds like a lot of generalizations for someone who doesn't live there. Perhaps you have something against Jax Beach. Downtown Jax Beach has progressed farther along in the past 10 years than DT Jax has in the past 30 years. While I'm a fan of AB as well, not sure that it is "much smaller"(...only about 7 sq.mi. smaller) than JB. And while you might think JB is "tacky, dirty, crimey, poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs", I think the masses that flock from UNF and the Southside every weekend might disagree with you (unless you consider them "uneducated and crimey" as well).
At any rate, there's more to Jax Beach than just 1st street...you should look into it sometime.
And I'll assume your comparison to Miami Beach is a joke...Miami Beach is a world renowned destination...only a handful like it the world exist. Not really a valid comparison.
And Seaside...really? Some neo-traditional development built into the dunes of what used to be pristine beaches and that solely caters to rich retirees hardly qualifies as even a "semi-urban" beach.
Quote from: simms3 on March 29, 2012, 08:32:06 PM
Advertising is a component, but so is beautifying the horrifying drive in from JIA which is the last thing out of town visitors need to see.
Great point here about the drive from JIA.
Jax Beach is far from a worldwide destination, but there some places worth hanging out at. Besides, I don't think JB is that bad. Definitely a lot better than Downtown. Downtown Jacksonville could definitely take lessons from Downtown Miami. Attractive skyline, beautifully lit up at night, etc. Good point about the drive from JIA. It gives a bad taste to a visitor automatically. Simms has a lot of good points on here.
My vision of what Jax could be? It would include a genuine momentum of job creation by way of new businesses, particularly in manufacturing. Increased momentum in manufacturing would create other supporting businesses, and thus, more jobs for those who are non-professional and unskilled. We should set ourselves to the path of making something, producing something, and remove ourselves further from the shuffling of paper, the selling of questionable intangibles, and the shuffling of imaginary financial gains via the trickery of stock market and banking shenanigans.
Manufacturing would create an environment where it would make sense for an individual to get training in the various trade schools. Currently, almost any kind of training is useless, as there are very few jobs in the area.
There is only so much warehouse work, cleaning work, or security work for the unskilled workers. Admittedly, many individuals who could work, do not, as they have given up, having been turned down hundreds of times. And for some, it’s easier to get free assistance, or to take by theft what they need, or to simply bum off of a relative or a friend.
BTW, the homeless fellow I hired several weeks ago from Hemming Park, who had been living in the woods for three years after enduring an abusive JSO which is obviously infected with institutional arrogance to the point that they project stupidity, and a Jax court system too often uninterested in the truth and justice of a scenario, is already living in an apartment, owns an auto, has health care, and is working over forty hours per week. The guy is a hard worker, and he is skilled in the type of work I need to have performed.
Therefore, knowing of this individual’s experience, I can also envision a Jax with considerable improvement in our system of justice, better (not necessarily expensive) training for our JSO officers and detectives so that they can be effective and productive instead of working as mediocre wannaby JSO persons.
I’ve personally seen JSO detectives perform with attitudes and mentalities I can only describe as second-rate . All this means of course is that good training is in store. These fellows, not all of them, but I suspect too many of them, function with shameful mediocrity. A journey to a system of high standards is in order.
Currently, it seems that there are some in the JSO and the detective force who, having sensed that they have a temporary power over all citizens, have given themselves the freedom to perform without concern for high standards, or to the exertion of creativity to solve cases. Some seem to serve with a relaxed indifference to justice and to the proper care to the concerns and the welfare of the average citizen.
Power does corrupt, even if only in attitudes and in the failure to focus with good attention to the ideal objectives of their chosen profession. And rest assured, power mixed with failure on their part, means a cover-up is the order of the day. Power, even subtle and temporary power, all too often removes the necessity to be honest and perform with integrity in dealings with the average citizen.
But of course we all possess a temporary and subtle power in our daily jobs as we encounter the public wishing our services. And therefore we all must make decisions every day as to the level of honesty and integrity we wish to exert. We must make a living, a profit, but we must also make happy the customer or the client. Go greedily one way too far, and you go out of business. Go too far in the customer’s favor, and you go out of business. A delicate balance is the key… moderation.
In some ways, the JSO has an easier time in making decisions about how much to favor the public of their immediate concern, as they have very little concern about profit or efficiency. Therefore one would think the average officer would find it easier to offer 100% attention to projecting integrity and honesty, and attention to job accomplishments. There is little excuse for anything other than these attributes. We, as citizens, pay them well so that they can be free from engaging in profit making decisions which might otherwise conflict with their ability to be honest and effective in their efforts to serve the public. Does this sound like I'm bashing the JSO. Not in any way. I'm being honest though. Does the truth hurt? Yes. But it is good.
But yes, I encourage the idea of getting manufacturing into the area, which of course is not an easy task, as the momentum of it has shifted overseas thanks to our concerned politicians and large corporations as they have focused on decisions to line their pockets as the expense of the average American worker.
Money and power and greed = corruption and indifference to the needs of the masses. Thus the one percent, and the increasing debacle of the ninety nine percent. It is time for a revolution. But you guys go for it. I’m too busy making a living at the moment.
Quote from: ronchamblin on March 30, 2012, 12:34:29 AM
My vision of what Jax could be? It would include a genuine momentum of job creation by way of new businesses, particularly in manufacturing. Increased momentum in manufacturing would create other supporting businesses, and thus, more jobs for those who are non-professional and unskilled. We should set ourselves to the path of making something, producing something, and remove ourselves further from the shuffling of paper, the selling of questionable intangibles, and the shuffling of imaginary financial gains via the trickery of stock market and banking shenanigans.
Manufacturing would create an environment where it would make sense for an individual to get training in the various trade schools. Currently, almost any kind of training is useless, as there are very few jobs in the area.
There is only so much warehouse work, cleaning work, or security work for the unskilled workers. Admittedly, many individuals who could work, do not, as they have given up, having been turned down hundreds of times. And for some, it’s easier to get free assistance, or to take by theft what they need, or to simply bum off of a relative or a friend.
BTW, the homeless fellow I hired several weeks ago from Hemming Park, who had been living in the woods for three years after enduring an abusive JSO which is obviously infected with institutional arrogance to the point that they project stupidity, and a Jax court system too often uninterested in the truth and justice of a scenario, is already living in an apartment, owns an auto, has health care, and is working over forty hours per week. The guy is a hard worker, and he is skilled in the type of work I need to have performed.
Therefore, knowing of this individual’s experience, I can also envision a Jax with considerable improvement in our system of justice, better (not necessarily expensive) training for our JSO officers and detectives so that they can be effective and productive instead of working as mediocre wannaby JSO persons.
I’ve personally seen JSO detectives perform with attitudes and mentalities I can only describe as second-rate . All this means of course is that good training is in store. These fellows, not all of them, but I suspect too many of them, function with shameful mediocrity. A journey to a system of high standards is in order.
Currently, it seems that there are some in the JSO and the detective force who, having sensed that they have a temporary power over all citizens, have given themselves the freedom to perform without concern for high standards, or to the exertion of creativity to solve cases. Some seem to serve with a relaxed indifference to justice and to the proper care to the concerns and the welfare of the average citizen.
Power does corrupt, even if only in attitudes and in the failure to focus with good attention to the ideal objectives of their chosen profession. And rest assured, power mixed with failure on their part, means a cover-up is the order of the day. Power, even subtle and temporary power, all too often removes the necessity to be honest and perform with integrity in dealings with the average citizen.
But of course we all possess a temporary and subtle power in our daily jobs as we encounter the public wishing our services. And therefore we all must make decisions every day as to the level of honesty and integrity we wish to exert. We must make a living, a profit, but we must also make happy the customer or the client. Go greedily one way too far, and you go out of business. Go too far in the customer’s favor, and you go out of business. A delicate balance is the key… moderation.
In some ways, the JSO has an easier time in making decisions about how much to favor the public of their immediate concern, as they have very little concern about profit or efficiency. Therefore one would think the average officer would find it easier to offer 100% attention to projecting integrity and honesty, and attention to job accomplishments. There is little excuse for anything other than these attributes. We, as citizens, pay them well so that they can be free from engaging in profit making decisions which might otherwise conflict with their ability to be honest and effective in their efforts to serve the public. Does this sound like I'm bashing the JSO. Not in any way. I'm being honest though. Does the truth hurt? Yes. But it is good.
But yes, I encourage the idea of getting manufacturing into the area, which of course is not an easy task, as the momentum of it has shifted overseas thanks to our concerned politicians and large corporations as they have focused on decisions to line their pockets as the expense of the average American worker.
Money and power and greed = corruption and indifference to the needs of the masses. Thus the one percent, and the increasing debacle of the ninety nine percent. It is time for a revolution. But you guys go for it. I’m too busy making a living at the moment.
I like this post alot. Absolutely agree. +1
Quote from: thelakelander on March 27, 2012, 07:08:32 AM
If Jacksonville solves its homeless problem it will be the first major city in the country to do so. As far as downtown is concerned, invest in a day center outside of the heart of downtown. At this point, whether one believes an investment in a day center is necessary or not, the main public library and Hemming are currently serving those roles.
solve is a bit much, i should have said work on it. solving homeless issues around the world is pretty unrealistic i think. making an effort isnt though.
Quote from: cline on March 29, 2012, 10:22:12 PM
QuoteNobody should take lessons from the beach, that is Jacksonville Beach. The good beach example for an urban beach is obviously Miami Beach and the good example for a planned, semi-urban beach is Seaside. Atlantic Beach to me is much more impressive than Jacksonville Beach, even though it is much smaller. I think Jax Beach is tacky, dirty, crimey (perception), poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs. Atlantic Beach is mixed-income, but has a much better/nicer "facade", is more pedestrian/bike friendly, and while there are all income levels, it seems more like the people are better educated and have better jobs.
Wow, sounds like a lot of generalizations for someone who doesn't live there. Perhaps you have something against Jax Beach. Downtown Jax Beach has progressed farther along in the past 10 years than DT Jax has in the past 30 years. While I'm a fan of AB as well, not sure that it is "much smaller"(...only about 7 sq.mi. smaller) than JB. And while you might think JB is "tacky, dirty, crimey, poor and full of uneducated people who don't work professional jobs", I think the masses that flock from UNF and the Southside every weekend might disagree with you (unless you consider them "uneducated and crimey" as well).
At any rate, there's more to Jax Beach than just 1st street...you should look into it sometime.
And I'll assume your comparison to Miami Beach is a joke...Miami Beach is a world renowned destination...only a handful like it the world exist. Not really a valid comparison.
And Seaside...really? Some neo-traditional development built into the dunes of what used to be pristine beaches and that solely caters to rich retirees hardly qualifies as even a "semi-urban" beach.
All obvious points, but I've got to tell you that while folks in Jax Beach think their place is fine and dandy, it's a micro shithole filled with strip malls, rundown gas stations, faux stucco architecture, and filled with people who ABSOLUTELY do not want change. They pride themselves on physical separation from the rest of Jacksonville, they don't want growth, they don't want change, and I don't even think they like all the UNF kids coming in according to some news articles and editorials I have read. I have personally heard people say they don't want to "be another Miami Beach" as if that is some horrible thing. The people in Jax Beach are more backward than the most backward people in Jacksonville.
And I mentioned Seaside because Jacksonville loves planned communities, and that is at the beach. It's highly successful whether you happen to like it or not. The next door community of Santa Rosa Beach is not for the wealthy and so within a mile of the place there are all incomes, and Destin nearby. People want to go there. Architectural Digest wants to showcase homes there. The press of that area of FL reaches all across the globe, and as a result it has become quite a destination. It is a very polished version of what Jax Beach could become if it didn't go the Miami Beach route, but it appears the locals wouldn't want to go any route except to stay the same.
The truth is the best hotel in Jax Beach is a FUGLY Suites near the Pavilion or that old 70s Holiday Inn on the beach further north with that pool feature. Nobody wants to visit the crappiest city beach in FL - and I live outside of FL and have "come back to visit FL" with others who are from all over the place. Discussions I have taken part in have always been directed at either Clearwater, Miami Beach, or the Keys. I have been down to visit Naples almost as many times as I have come home (college buddy/roommate). I have heard people even discuss visiting Jacksonville, Ponte Vedra, Amelia Island and Saint Agustine, but never Jax Beach.
My sister who was "Miss Jacksonville/Miss Ortega" mentality forever is in college at FSU, and has since made friends with all the south florida guys and girls and is down there all the time. Her Facebook is littered with pictures from 40 floors up at the beach there and in Brickell, and I no longer see photos from Jax. There just isn't anything exciting about Jax Beach and the bars really are lame at best (I have been to Brix and a few others - good for Jax, but would be lame anywhere else). I have to be brutally honest, until more people want to truly compete on a FL level with all of the other FL cities and on a jobs/young professional level with the rest of the big cities in the south and across the country, the metro and its beaches are just going to plain suck suck suck. There is no excitement. The only place in FL that gets quiet earlier than Jax is SW FL, which is silent by 8 in the evening. We are only an hour behind. The rest of FL is much more exciting and makes Jacksonville look like a less desirable Myrtle Beach, i.e. we don't belong in FL.
QuoteMy sister who was "Miss Jacksonville/Miss Ortega" mentality forever is in college at FSU
QuoteHer Facebook is littered with pictures from 40 floors up at the beach there and in Brickell, and I no longer see photos from Jax.
Well, I guess when "Miss Jacksonville/Miss Ortega" starts taking pictures of Jax off of her Facebook page, that's a sure sign the city is going to the shitter.
Love your sarcasm. I think my point is clear. Her mentality has quickly changed and she has seen the light. She never brings friends home, but her friends love showing her Miami and Tampa and she frequently comes up to Atlanta. I am pretty close to her and her group of friends from HS as we are only 3 years apart, and the rest of her friends are in colleges outside the state. It will be interesting to see where they end up, but I won't be surprised if they forgo having the best connections in Jax and just finding their own jobs in other cities.
There are two groups of people in Jax - those who grow up and don't really truly leave the city to live or work elsewhere. They have this view that Jax is the greatest city on earth and they can't understand why others don't think so. They stay. Then there are those who leave for college and then for work, and they don't come back until they raise a family, if they come back at all. These are your highly upwardly mobile folks, the ones you want to come back. Other cities are finding ways of retaining their upwardly mobile folks, Jacksonville is bleeding them. And we are perpetually the FL city where you raise a family and live a cookie cutter lifestyle, shunning the rest of the world and voting for John McCain.
Little Facebook comments and changes on people's profiles, including my once future Ortega mom sister's, can indicate this, believe it or not. This girl was set in her ways - Sperry's, TCC, the simple life you know? Now she wants a job in a big city - complete reverse shift.
I keep reading Jacksonville isn't like this place or that place like that is a bad thing. I am one of the backwards idiots that has lived here most of my life, and think it is the greatest city anywhere. I have been to New York to LA Miami to Chicago, and tons of smaller towns in between. I live in Avondale, and love everything about it. I have a really great job (for a backwards idiot), love to kayak, and indulge in our crappy culinary choices (Mossfire, Biscotti's,Indochine, Taco Lu etc). So continue to wish for something that Jacksonville isn't, me I'm happy as a stupid clam.
I agree CG7, I went to college outside Jax and then moved and lived in big bad Atlanta for several years. I chose to come back to Jax. I dont have kids, just a dog. I love it here. I have travelled the world and the country and always enjoy coming back to Jacksonville. Could things be better, yes. I think we are now seeing some momentum and maybe one day we can grow up to be like Atlanta. NOT! It is all what you make of it.
Quote from: simms3 on March 30, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
Sperry's, TCC, the simple life you know?
Yes, that's truly an image anyone can relate to.
I think Simms hit on a much bigger point, which is:
Does Jacksonville want to change or grow?
Sadly, most empirical evidence seems to point towards "No."
Many of my peers in business around here (30-early 40s with kids) don't expect to stay here. We like it, but as we move up in our corporate careers, we expect to be moved. I know that if my boss here left tomorrow, I would be expected to move to LA, Denver, or Greenville, SC. That probably goes with the theme of people not caring or seem to not care.
Quote from: KenFSU on March 30, 2012, 09:39:49 AM
I think Simms hit on a much bigger point, which is:
Does Jacksonville want to change or grow?
Sadly, most empirical evidence seems to point towards "No."
I think its pretty clear that the intown neighborhoods do want change....at least in the urban core.
It depends on what you mean by change. Mass transit definitely needs to get much better, but as far as day to day living, for me it can't get any better (and I honestly mean that).
QuoteI think its pretty clear that the intown neighborhoods do want change....at least in the urban core.
I live in Avondale, the only thing I want to change about Avondale is add more restaurants. I don't care about public transportation, the buses run up and down St. Johns Avenue and Herschel as well as Park, so there are 3 main lines with busing. I don't need preservation because RAP is in the 'hood. What else could I possibly need?
Oh yeah, I forgot, a 7/11. That's what I need.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 30, 2012, 12:05:56 PM
QuoteI think its pretty clear that the intown neighborhoods do want change....at least in the urban core.
I live in Avondale, the only thing I want to change about Avondale is add more restaurants. I don't care about public transportation, the buses run up and down St. Johns Avenue and Herschel as well as Park, so there are 3 main lines with busing. I don't need preservation because RAP is in the 'hood. What else could I possibly need?
Oh yeah, I forgot, a 7/11. That's what I need.
I feel the same way. I, too, live in the Avondale area. Restaurants, restaurants, restaurants! And not Americana restaurants either...different, please.
QuoteI feel the same way. I, too, live in the Avondale area. Restaurants, restaurants, restaurants! And not Americana restaurants either...different, please.
Have you tried Ginjo Sushi yet? A realtor who works with my wife is going there for lunch and dinner, she loves it. Here is the review from the Times Union:
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/423471/gary-mills/2012-03-28/ginjo-sushi-opens-jacksonvilles-avondale-neighborhood (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/423471/gary-mills/2012-03-28/ginjo-sushi-opens-jacksonvilles-avondale-neighborhood)
More restaurants (more mixed use) is change. I'd like to see that along with better schools, parks, jobs, entertainment, transit, etc. Basically, I want a vibrant urban core.
QuoteBasically, I want a vibrant urban core.
I already see this in Avondale.
Quote from: CG7 on March 30, 2012, 10:46:42 AM
It depends on what you mean by change. Mass transit definitely needs to get much better, but as far as day to day living, for me it can't get any better (and I honestly mean that).
I'm with you CG7. When I look around, I realize I have it pretty damn good. But, I've always been one to want to improve things. So at the top of my list are:
1) a public school system that is so good it puts the private schools out of business
2) a clean, and accessible, river
3) a transit system that would allow me to live a normal life and not own a car.
And if those things are ever accomplished, there will be a new list of stuff to focus on.
Quote from: simms3 on March 29, 2012, 08:32:06 PM
My vision for Jax is for city leaders and local business leaders find a way to bring the city into the 21st century and start competing for quality jobs and for college educated professionals under the age of 35.
Almost a decade ago, I sent a copy of this book http://www.amazon.com/The-Rise-Creative-Class-Transforming/dp/0465024777/ref=pd_sim_b_1 to every member of the city council.
Know how many replies/acknowledgements I received?
ZERO.
Quote from: KenFSU on March 30, 2012, 09:39:49 AM
Does Jacksonville want to change or grow?
Sadly, most empirical evidence seems to point towards "No."
So it would seem.
Quote from: CG7 on March 30, 2012, 08:32:26 AM
I keep reading Jacksonville isn't like this place or that place like that is a bad thing. I am one of the backwards idiots that has lived here most of my life, and think it is the greatest city anywhere. I have been to New York to LA Miami to Chicago, and tons of smaller towns in between. I live in Avondale, and love everything about it. I have a really great job (for a backwards idiot), love to kayak, and indulge in our crappy culinary choices (Mossfire, Biscotti's,Indochine, Taco Lu etc). So continue to wish for something that Jacksonville isn't, me I'm happy as a stupid clam.
Jacksonville not wanting to change IS a bad thing and if they don't like the changes we want to make, then they can leave to go live elsewhere. We don't want the backwoods inferiority here anymore!
That makes no sense, if you aren't happy here, you move somewhere else.
(http://i.imgur.com/KRgwi.jpg)
Stephen if that is in reference to me , do not speak of which you do not know.
QuoteWe don't want the backwoods inferiority here anymore!
Is it too late for us to sell the Westside, also known by its inhabitants as the Bestside, to the Mexicans for some magic jumping beans?
And when I say Westside, all the major news stations believe the Westside to run from I-95 west.
Quote from: stephendare on March 30, 2012, 01:02:30 PM
Quote from: CG7 on March 30, 2012, 01:00:20 PM
That makes no sense, if you aren't happy here, you move somewhere else.
Must have missed that rule in the handbook of "how to avoid civic duty and any responsibility for the world around you"
I disagree. I don't think there's anything selfless in trying to make someplace into what YOU want it to be. And I get tired of those people (I know a few and I'm not referring to anyone on this forum as far as I know) who seem to think they're doing everyone else a favor by putting on art shows and DJing at bars.
It's all selfish and that's not to say it's a bad thing: it just is what it is. (Selfish or self-interested doesn't have to necessarily have a pejorative connotation). I don't have any problem with people doing what they can do to try to make Jax into what they think would be a great place.
Just don't try to act like you're doing it for my sake or that you're some kind of martyr for the greater good. And to reiterate, Stephen, I am not referring to you or anyone else on this forum. But it's something that just winds me up.
Quote from: CG7 on March 30, 2012, 01:00:20 PM
That makes no sense, if you aren't happy here, you move somewhere else.
You see, people like you have held this city back for way too long and it's time for people like you to get out of the way. We're taking over and if people like you have a problem with change, people like you can leave.
QuoteAnd when I say Westside, all the major news stations believe the Westside to run from I-95 west.
???? I-95 WEST???????
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 30, 2012, 09:16:47 PM
QuoteAnd when I say Westside, all the major news stations believe the Westside to run from I-95 west.
???? I-95 WEST???????
I guess I-95 runs West , after a few cases of Schlitz . :), But actually I think the message was supposed to say WEST of I-95 ;) Who can say?
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 30, 2012, 03:51:37 PM
QuoteWe don't want the backwoods inferiority here anymore!
Is it too late for us to sell the Westside, also known by its inhabitants as the Bestside, to the Mexicans for some magic jumping beans?
And when I say Westside, all the major news stations believe the Westside to run from I-95 west.
it's too late for the Westside.It can be and will be sold,but not to the highest bidders.
. We're taking over and if people like you have a problem with change, people like you can leave.
[/quote
great mock chamber promo. "We're being taken over! Is this place for you??"
good future FLAP campaign idea- thanks,I'll Take It from here...........
Quote from: Know Growth on March 31, 2012, 12:01:30 AM
. We're taking over and if people like you have a problem with change, people like you can leave.
[/quote
great mock chamber promo. "We're being taken over! Is this place for you??"
good future FLAP campaign idea- thanks,I'll Take It from here...........
I tell you what, I won't get into it with anyone, since this forum was started to hear everyone's ideas professed on what the city could do to bring out it's potential. I can't believe anyone would want to keep it the way it is right now, though.
Quote from: Know Growth on March 30, 2012, 11:51:54 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 30, 2012, 03:51:37 PM
QuoteWe don't want the backwoods inferiority here anymore!
Is it too late for us to sell the Westside, also known by its inhabitants as the Bestside, to the Mexicans for some magic jumping beans?
And when I say Westside, all the major news stations believe the Westside to run from I-95 west.
it's too late for the Westside.It can be and will be sold,but not to the highest bidders.
Why is it too late? What do you mean it will be sold? How and to who?
I tell you what, I won't get into it with anyone, since this forum was started to hear everyone's ideas professed on what the city could do to bring out it's potential. I can't believe anyone would want to keep it the way it is right now, though.
[/quote]
In fact decisions and events,pivotal during the past two decades of Change,have in fact delivered a city as we see today,future options limited by virtue of a city dangling between past and future "back then".
LOL Nomeus, that was pretty funny.
Quote from: Know Growth on March 31, 2012, 12:50:45 AM
I tell you what, I won't get into it with anyone, since this forum was started to hear everyone's ideas professed on what the city could do to bring out it's potential. I can't believe anyone would want to keep it the way it is right now, though.
In fact decisions and events,pivotal during the past two decades of Change,have in fact delivered a city as we see today,future options limited by virtue of a city dangling between past and future "back then".
[/quote]
So what's your vision of what Jacksonville could become?
Quote from: ronchamblin on March 30, 2012, 12:34:29 AM
I’ve personally seen JSO detectives perform with attitudes and mentalities I can only describe as second-rate . All this means of course is that good training is in store. These fellows, not all of them, but I suspect too many of them, function with shameful mediocrity. A journey to a system of high standards is in order.
Currently, it seems that there are some in the JSO and the detective force who, having sensed that they have a temporary power over all citizens, have given themselves the freedom to perform without concern for high standards, or to the exertion of creativity to solve cases. Some seem to serve with a relaxed indifference to justice and to the proper care to the concerns and the welfare of the average citizen.
In some ways, the JSO has an easier time in making decisions about how much to favor the public of their immediate concern, as they have very little concern about profit or efficiency. Therefore one would think the average officer would find it easier to offer 100% attention to projecting integrity and honesty, and attention to job accomplishments. There is little excuse for anything other than these attributes. We, as citizens, pay them well so that they can be free from engaging in profit making decisions which might otherwise conflict with their ability to be honest and effective in their efforts to serve the public. Does this sound like I'm bashing the JSO. Not in any way. I'm being honest though. Does the truth hurt? Yes. But it is good.
This might stir up controversy, but I think there needs to be some clean-up action on that topic. I personally think it's time to retire JSO and completely rebuild the local police force all the way around. You're right on that.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 31, 2012, 01:55:31 AM
Quote from: Know Growth on March 31, 2012, 12:50:45 AM
I tell you what, I won't get into it with anyone, since this forum was started to hear everyone's ideas professed on what the city could do to bring out it's potential. I can't believe anyone would want to keep it the way it is right now, though.
In fact decisions and events,pivotal during the past two decades of Change,have in fact delivered a city as we see today,future options limited by virtue of a city dangling between past and future "back then".
So what's your vision of what Jacksonville could become?
[/quote]
And furthermore KG, what is your difference between "change" and "grow"? You sound educated on the topic. I'd like to hear you on that. I'm still interested in hearing what your vision of Jacksonville is, though.
I'll throw in some ideas. I really can't speak to how such things should be done, but I can speak to what I think end results should be.
Jacksonville could have stronger, safer neighborhoods and more of a sense of a community despite it's unique and wide-spreading geography. While diverse in its many areas, Jacksonville could be a source of pride for its residents no matter what area they live in or what type of lifestyle the prefer. Urbanites and suburbanites alike could take pride in where they live. There could be centers of community in areas far from downtown, such as Mandarin, Baymeadows, Town Center, Arlington, etc etc. These centers would be parks, ampitheaters, a square--something simple or not so simple, but it would be there and be something that if you lived in that area, the drive or the train ride is not too far.
Transportation within Jacksonville could serve a common outcome: choices and utility. With choices, there is mass transit where appropriate, and with utility, people are getting where they need to go without five lanes of aggravation or taking two hours to go 5 miles. With these two things, Jacksonville could grow in a more healthy way.
Jacksonville could be a destination for businesses of all sizes. The current hi-rises downtown could be filled with small and midsize businesses, even without the help of the big players. But not only downtown...even the southside offices could be a place where there exist many businesses, many JOBS, and not just 7 Eleven jobs.
Jacksonville could have its own identity and it's own culture, both based on history and based on the history that is being made right now. This identity would be well known nationwide, not because we have some kind of "draw" or gimmick, but because we have a community that works.
Again, not even going to get into what's possible or how it should be done. That's just what I think.
Without copying what has been said about the JSO, I look at them like a company with 1700 employees. Yes, there are going to be people with god-like complexes, sure there will be internal strife, sure there will be people who have issues with others outside their employer, but hey, who doesn't have that as an issue?
Add the uncomfortable uniforms, all that body armor the uniformed officers have to wear, and some of the real crappy details or projects they are stuck on, not to mention bad people shoot at them, look at your job and compare what you go through with other people to what they go through.
Rutherford has a good company of people, its not perfect, but they are efficient and I feel better with them protecting me the way they are, or the way I see them. Next time you get a chance to say hello to one, go do it, get an idea of what their day is like as you share yours with them. They are people who pull their pants on just like you do.
Quote from: danem on March 31, 2012, 10:28:39 PM
I'll throw in some ideas. I really can't speak to how such things should be done, but I can speak to what I think end results should be.
Jacksonville could have stronger, safer neighborhoods and more of a sense of a community despite it's unique and wide-spreading geography. While diverse in its many areas, Jacksonville could be a source of pride for its residents no matter what area they live in or what type of lifestyle the prefer. Urbanites and suburbanites alike could take pride in where they live. There could be centers of community in areas far from downtown, such as Mandarin, Baymeadows, Town Center, Arlington, etc etc. These centers would be parks, ampitheaters, a square--something simple or not so simple, but it would be there and be something that if you lived in that area, the drive or the train ride is not too far.
Transportation within Jacksonville could serve a common outcome: choices and utility. With choices, there is mass transit where appropriate, and with utility, people are getting where they need to go without five lanes of aggravation or taking two hours to go 5 miles. With these two things, Jacksonville could grow in a more healthy way.
Jacksonville could be a destination for businesses of all sizes. The current hi-rises downtown could be filled with small and midsize businesses, even without the help of the big players. But not only downtown...even the southside offices could be a place where there exist many businesses, many JOBS, and not just 7 Eleven jobs.
Jacksonville could have its own identity and it's own culture, both based on history and based on the history that is being made right now. This identity would be well known nationwide, not because we have some kind of "draw" or gimmick, but because we have a community that works.
Again, not even going to get into what's possible or how it should be done. That's just what I think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't that been the mindset of Jacksonville for the past 4 or 5 decades?
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 01, 2012, 01:27:33 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't that been the mindset of Jacksonville for the past 4 or 5 decades?
I can't really speak to that, but since I am describing something that doesn't exist, obviously the implementation has failed or some folks in charge have had a different vision and have been trying to implement that.
Maybe I'm being too general? I mean, I read on here that one plan for downtown was to have raised sidewalks so people could walk over the traffic. Or for Riverside Ave to be expanded to six lanes. And then there's the one individual who occasionally posts on here and on the Times Union site that we should bulldoze the entire downtown and replace it with a Town Center clone. I suppose those who think these things think they are accomplishing the same things!
The bottom line of most of what I was saying is that there are a couple neighborhoods who seem to have some sort of order and good function for those who live there, and others who just put crap everywhere and expect is to live in the middle of it and drive to it. I drive through many areas and I'm just like...ewww. My vision is no more "eww"...or a lot less. Hope that clarifies.
^ Hmmm.... raised sidewalks downtown doesn't seem like a bad idea. How could Riverside Ave. be expanded into 6 lanes? Doesn't look like there's enough room. I never heard the idea of bulldoze downtown and replace it with a town center clone, but whoever thinks that is an idiot. Adding a town center in downtown? I'm all for that. But make it its own town center with a different atmosphere. What's the only way to bring Jacksonville residents to an area of town? Build the biggest, latest thing. Look at the track record. What do you mean by "throwing crap in a neighborhood for people to live in the middle of it and drive to it"?
Here's one man's opinion (not mine) of what Jax could be
QuoteSome say, Jacksonville is a diamond that wants to remain coal. What would it be like if Jacksonville were a city that didn't hate itself... led by people who acknowledged its achievements?
http://www.news4jax.com/news/What-if-Jacksonville-suddenly-woke-up/-/475880/10023068/-/ovgpsiz/-/index.html (http://www.news4jax.com/news/What-if-Jacksonville-suddenly-woke-up/-/475880/10023068/-/ovgpsiz/-/index.html)
Quote from: JFman00 on April 01, 2012, 11:44:26 PM
Here's one man's opinion (not mine) of what Jax could be
QuoteSome say, Jacksonville is a diamond that wants to remain coal. What would it be like if Jacksonville were a city that didn't hate itself... led by people who acknowledged its achievements?
http://www.news4jax.com/news/What-if-Jacksonville-suddenly-woke-up/-/475880/10023068/-/ovgpsiz/-/index.html (http://www.news4jax.com/news/What-if-Jacksonville-suddenly-woke-up/-/475880/10023068/-/ovgpsiz/-/index.html)
I remember reading that a while back. Some of those things were pretty good that is not too late to bring out. Is it a possibility that the people who lead this city in the past drove it into the ground because they just hated Jacksonville? I do wish they'd do something today.
On another note, a piano bar dedicated to Ray Charles in the heart of downtown would be really awesome.