Metro Jacksonville

Just curious. How much of a bible-belt would you consider Jacksonville to be now compared to 15 years ago? The city always had a tendency to cater to the most dreaded FBC. Who here still thinks that's going on?

As long as tey sit on downtown property and pays zero they are a threat to the city...and not all of us believe in the bs they feed people.

How many services have you attended there Garden Guy? A threat to who, or what, Anti Redneck?

I believe that the FBC is partially responsible of holding this city back from where it needs to be. As far as I'm concerned, they are not welcome in Jacksonville. Garden Guy says they pay zero? Really? It's about time to start charging them. They regulate downtown for businesses that want to move there, but they won't regulate FBC? I say it's time to send them packing. I don't know how everyone else feels, but personally I don't want them here!

Guess it's time for another anti-Christian rant. Come on guys. This is so old and tired...

Quote from: stephenc on March 10, 2012, 01:06:43 PM
Guess it's time for another anti-Christian rant. Come on guys. This is so old and tired...

By no means am I anti-Christian. But I think there must be boundaries drawn for organizations like them. They have overstepped their boundaries too many times in the past. The city council has allowed them to. If I was Alvin Brown (granted I don't know what church he belongs to), I would tell them to watch themselves. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.

Quote from: Anti redneck on March 10, 2012, 01:13:42 PM

Quote from: stephenc on March 10, 2012, 01:06:43 PM
Guess it's time for another anti-Christian rant. Come on guys. This is so old and tired...

By no means am I anti-Christian. But I think there must be boundaries drawn for organizations like them. They have overstepped their boundaries too many times in the past. The city council has allowed them to. If I was Alvin Brown (granted I don't know what church he belongs to), I would tell them to watch themselves. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.

How have they overstepped their boundaries?

A few years ago, a story went around about how Rev. Mac Brunson paid a JSO detective to get a logger's identity and location because I he did not like what was being blogged. What happened to the blogger I don't know. While I am sure that some if not many people, including city council members and others attend the church, word has it that Brunson and all his little cronies have a few city council members and cops on their payroll. It would not surprise me. Mac Brunson alone makes over $300,000 a year. He can afford it. Besides, does anyone else think it's a little strange that a church gets to have all the incentives they want in an over-regulated downtown, but the city will not bring in the businesses and companies we would like to see?

While I hardly ever agree with anything you write Stephendare, you're spot on here (1st time for everything. lol ). I think if anyone knows anything about this situation it's you.

Quote from: stephendare on March 10, 2012, 02:00:50 PM

Quote from: Anti redneck on March 10, 2012, 01:46:06 PM
A few years ago, a story went around about how Rev. Mac Brunson paid a JSO detective to get a logger's identity and location because I he did not like what was being blogged. What happened to the blogger I don't know. While I am sure that some if not many people, including city council members and others attend the church, word has it that Brunson and all his little cronies have a few city council members and cops on their payroll. It would not surprise me. Mac Brunson alone makes over $300,000 a year. He can afford it. Besides, does anyone else think it's a little strange that a church gets to have all the incentives they want in an over-regulated downtown, but the city will not bring in the businesses and companies we would like to see?

There is literally no sentence in this paragraph that is true, anti redneck.

You are either being propagandized, or you are attempting to do the same thing, anti redneck.

I do know a bit about this one, as we followed the story pretty closely on this site, there was a lot of suspicion that I was the first baptist blogger.

First Baptist is cut out of every incentive and program that is ever offered to downtown development, its congregation is snubbed, maligned and insulted at ever turn, incidentally. 

The First Baptist Blogger, is alive and well, still publishing his blog.

Without first baptist being downtown, the whole thing would have turned into a blasted wasteland an awfully long time ago.

You are correct that the city was taken backwards by a small group of people, but that group was called, The Porkchop Gang, and it was led by Ed Ball, not First Baptist.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=9316.0  try reading here.

I am frankly, also tired of the anti First Baptitst rants, as they are based in ignorance, suspicion and fear.

Read the above link for the story of what ails you, anti redneck.

Trey Brunson, one of the associate pastors of the church, who I met in person at a memorial service for Lisa Neary with my partner from Boomtown, John Allen Harrett is writing a front page guest article for metrojacksonville this next week.

Pork Chop Gang - a group of 20 conservatives in North Florida who supported segregation (or however it was worded). Honestly, besides being the brother-in-law of Alfred and Jessie duPont, this really tells me very little about Jacksonville going backwards. It's 2012 now and still not much has changed. Anyone have a picture of the Jacksonville skyline from the 1960's? I'm sure it doesn't look that much different now.

Btw -- no propaganda going on here. But there is still something going on here. The Good Ole' Boy system still exists in Jacksonville.

With such wonderful support from mr dare it seems that maybe he's on their payroll also.lol.

Quote from: Garden guy on March 10, 2012, 03:08:49 PM
With such wonderful support from mr dare it seems that maybe he's on their payroll also.lol.

I was trying not to say that.  ;D

Point taken. So how would those things get solved?

Quote from: Anti redneck on March 10, 2012, 02:47:21 PM
It's 2012 now and still not much has changed. Anyone have a picture of the Jacksonville skyline from the 1960's? I'm sure it doesn't look that much different now.
Btw -- no propaganda going on here. But there is still something going on here. The Good Ole' Boy system still exists in Jacksonville.

Shame that the church has never used those imagined Billions $$ to actually help anyone in Jacksonville, but as Stephendare has stated so well, it's all about propaganda, NOT FACTS!

Ministry Listing

James 1 Ministry | First Baptist Church
A “helping hands” ministry specifically meant for ministering to our FBC members (single moms, elderly couples, and widows.)
For more information please contact James1@fbcjax.com or call 265.7288

FBC Crossroads Career Page - http://www.crossroadscareer.org/fbcjax-fl
?

Florida Baptist Children’s Home
This home provides Christ centered services to children and families in need.

Location:
2300 Bartram Rd.
Jacksonville, FL 32207
904.721.2711
For more information please go to their website:  www.fbchomes.org


Prayer Room | First Baptist Church
The Prayer Room provides a quiet place to pray and seek God.
Location: 2nd floor of the Main Auditorium â€" Laura Street side
Hours:
Sunday Morning 8:00 to 12:15
Sunday Evenings5:00 to 8:00

For more information please contact missions@fbcjax.com or call 904.366.1325

First Coast Women’s Services
Transforming hearts and saving lives

FCWS is committed to offering truthful information, emotional support, and practical assistance to individuals who are facing unplanned pregnancies.
For locations and more information please go their web site: www.fcws.org



Florida Baptist Convention | Jacksonville, Florida
To equip and provide inspiration (through word and deed) Florida Baptist churches and associations to accomplish the Great Commission.

Location: 1230 Hendricks Ave.32207
For more information please see their web site: www.flbaptist.org



Jacksonville Baptist Association
Is a networking ministry of diverse churches seeking to stimulate church health, develop leaders, and multiply ministries in the Jacksonville area.

Location: 2700 University Blvd. South32216
For more information please see their web site:  www.jaxbaptist.org



Prison Ministry | First Baptist Church
A group of FBC men who go to various prisons in our state to minister to inmates in an attempt to lead them to faith in Jesus.

Yearly Event: In November of each year FBC collects home baked cookies to take to the prisons.  We are the only church allowed to do this.
For more information about this ministry and how you can help please email pastoralcare@fbcjax.com or call 904.366.1236



Sidewalk Funday School
This ministry is designed to reach children who do not have the opportunity to go to Sunday School or church. They bring Sunday School to inner city areas because this might be the only chance for them to hear the Word of God.

Office: 124 West Ashley Street 32202904.265.7252
For locations, how you can volunteer, and more information please see their website:  www.sidewalkfundayschool.com or call 904.265.7252


Silver Creek & Desert Winds
This is our Apartment Ministry.  We educate, have activities and hold Bible Studies on site to encourage the international people who live there.
For location, how you can volunteer, and more information please call 904.366.1382 or email davidmk@fbcjax.com.


Trinity Rescue Mission
This ministry helps transform lives by sharing the   love and life changing power of Jesus Christ.

Location:
622 West Union Street
Jacksonville, FL 32202
For more information and how you can volunteer please see their website:  www.trinityrescue,org or call 904.355.1205

Safe Families
Safe Families is a network of local agencies and churches that are committed to preventing child abuse and helping at-risk families successfully manage crisis situations.
For locations, how you can volunteer, and more information please see their website:  www.safe-families.org click on Jerree Sanders
Some links to great missions resources:
www.commissionstories.com
www.kidsonmission.org and www.kompray.imb.org
www.imb.org/lottieatwork
www.resources.imb.org
www.imb.org/globalresearch
www.peoplegroups.org
www.prayerthreads.imb.org
www.thetask.org
www.imbconnect.net

OMG!  They REALLY DO use that money for some pretty amazing things.

'Brother' OCKLAWAHA eh Stephen?

I was a member from age 5-19 and worked there for a few years and the rumors that fly around about FBC still amuse me. There aren't any scary secrets, dark mysterious cabals or whatever else people say. It's a church. It's a really big church. Some of the people there are kinda jerks, most of the people there I encountered were kind, loving people. They know it's a giant church, they use the classes and groups to try and get folks to know each other on a more personal level.

It's not perfect, I don't agree with everything they preach but I honestly do think they've done more good than bad. A lot of people expect the inner-workings there to be a bit like making sausage but people focused on their job, most seemed to really enjoy it and it was probably the most drama-free workplace I've seen.

Towards the end, Homer really got nutty about lighthouses. Everything needed lighthouses. That was weird. I think the unofficial name of the one on the parking garage was the "Homer-Dome Bum Beacon".

What was the deal with the lighthouses?  Isn't the core function of a lighthouse to keep people away?

Quote from: thelakelander on March 10, 2012, 10:49:08 PM
What was the deal with the lighthouses?  Isn't the core function of a lighthouse to keep people away?

Not really Lake, the lighthouse is a navigation aid which is more of a homing beacon then it is a 'keep away' warning. Each light house has a unique beacon cycle and the charts are marked as such. For example the Amelia Island chart shows a lighthouse 107' feet high, with a 7 second rotation, visible at 19 nautical miles. In theory a ship navigating by the stars could lock onto that light and 'feel' their way to the mouth of the Amelia River and Port of Fernandina. This would not be confused with the Mayport or San Sebastian (Anastasia Island) lights, as they would have different characteristics.

In conjunction with horns, bells, whistles, and lighted buoys, once the light house is lined up, it's fairly easy to spot the red and green beacons of the channel markers. So even though there are some 'keep away' lights at isolated shoals or rocks, tie it all together and it all works together for good.

One of the number one theory's in the tragic sinking of the famed Edmond Fitzgerald, was that in the severe storm, they struck a rocky shoal that was NOT marked on American Charts or protected by a navigation light. In a sense the ship bottomed out while loaded with iron pellets and cracked open like an egg. Oddly the Canadian charts all located the shoal. You can bet that this situation has changed to protect the ships there today. Nothing like a folk ballad to focus attention on something. Meanwhile where are the men of the Fitzgerald memorialized? Where else, Mariners' Church of Detroit (Free and Independent) a church adhering to Anglican liturgical traditions located at 170 East Jefferson Avenue in Detroit, Michigan. This Gothic Revival church dates to the 1840's and this brings our conversation full circle back to THE LIGHT.

http://www.last.fm/music/Gordon+Lightfoot/_/The+Wreck+of+the+Edmund+Fitzgerald

What's the religious connection?

I modified my post in anticipation of your recent comment. Of course I'm pretty sure, You, Stephen and I, realize the connection is 'The Guiding Light' or 'Light of This World' is more then a man made building. It is fairly easy to build a connection between the various forms of way showing lights.

I rest my case.

Quote from: stephendare on March 10, 2012, 04:27:57 PM
Well by all means, go ahead and say it and see exactly how much traction you get.  Unlike some, Im a pretty open book and I probably don't have to defend my progressive, or for that matter, my philosophical beliefs.  There are almost thirty thousand of my posts on this forum which don't leave much doubt about where I stand on things.

However, I also believe in principal over partisanship and accuracy over propaganda.

I don't think anyone should be ridiculed or dehumanized or scapegoated on the basis of their religious beliefs.  But rather on their actions.  All of us are individuals, and we all deserve common courtesy and respect. 

If I despise idealogues (and I do) then I cannot, in good conscience---much less with any self respect---turn around and behave like an idealogue.  If I despise bigotry and bullying, then why on earth would I be interested in falsely demonizng and depersonalizing people who simply believe differently than myself.

Also, its just not good policy, nor is it a sound framework for getting at the truth.  If you are willing to believe any accusation about someone based on whether or not you agree with some part of their philosophy, then you are setting yourself up to be very deceived about the world around you.

And if all of your perceptions of the world are based on lies, distortions, and thoughtless slander, then how on earth can you come up with any solutions to the things that bother you?

Apparently Gardenguy can demand openmindedness all day long, while relentlessly attacking people who disagree with him.  And I suppose that works for him.

But it doesnt work for me, and from what experience I have with public opinion, it doesnt work with the vast majority of thinking people.

Have some of the former pastors of first baptist been closed minded, intolerant bullies?

Yes.  Jerry Vines, springs to mind.

But the church paid dearly for his pastorship.

He followed a very sweet, very beloved man, Dr. Homer Lindsey who grew the church from less than 2 thousand to more than 20 thousand over the course of his life time.

Was Dr. Lindsey a prude?  Did he lead a narrow lifestyle?  Was his message centered on a puritanized vision of community and personal behavior.  Sure.  Welcome to America, friends.  Weve had Puritans for a long time now, and seem to be getting along all the same.  (Thanks for the Turkey on Thanksgiving, incidentally, oh point proving puritans of long ago.)

Apparently most of those 20 thousand Baptists agreed with your own assessment, non redneck.  When Dr. Vines began preaching his message of intolerance, judgement, and narrowmindedness as opposed to narrowliving, the congregation dwindled to less than 8 thousand and is presently less than that.

Does it surprise you that the overwhelming majority of the (mostly former) members of First Baptist agree with you?

The First Baptist Blogger, incidentally is a partisan for the return of Doctor Vines.  Not a critic of baptist doctrine or any of the things that you would find odious about 'Baptistness'  Not by a long shot.  In fact he would prefer a return to the days of Dr. Vines---not a change in Baptist protocol.

There are larger issues at play in that whole rotten scenario than have ever been publicly discussed, and we haven't wanted to empower any side of that conversation by encouraging or covering any of it.

But this issue of whether or not First Baptist is a detriment to downtown is seriously a red herring.

It was Fitzhugh Powell that shut down the downtown scene back in the seventies and eighties.  It was in response to the Southern Fried Rock movement and the general anti hippie hysteria.  Fitzhugh was not a member of First Baptist.

It was Jack Diamond who initiated a long campaign of dynamiting historic buildings out of the ground to 'clear the way' for new development (that never materialized) and to make downtown Jacksonville more "paris' like through the addition of a massive downtown parkland called the 'downtown seam'.

Jack Diamond was not a member of First Baptist.

The list truly goes on and on.

You hear about First Baptist closing down nightclubs.  In almost every case it is usually a competing nightclub that has been calling in complaints---not First Baptist.

You hear accusations that First Baptist has secretly bought up a bunch of liquor liscenses in order to keep them from being used.  Absolutely not true.

You hear about first baptist closing down businesses that they don't agree with.  Again, not true.

The only places that I know of that ever had trouble with a religious group that 'closed them down' never involved First Baptist. 

One was Lee Harvey, the Artist.  His "Lee Harvey Gallery" over in five points was the subject of intense pressure from cops, code enforcement and city pressure.  It was driven by Simon Smith and funded by WW Gay and led to a statewide ridicule session about 'obscene art'.

There was a church involved.  But it wasnt First Baptist.  It was Riverside Presbyterian.

Then there was the firebombing of the Five Points Theatre over the showing of "Hail Mary".  That was a Catholic group.

Its almost impossible to get First Baptist involved in any kind of protest.  Trust me, I know from multiple disappointing experiences while trying to drum up pubicity for naked poetry readings, irreligious art shows and controversial theatre performances.  The consistent no-show was always first baptist.

My point is that the problem with this city is not First Baptist (nor has it ever been).  Its a lot of other things.  And those things need to be solved.

Which you cant do by simply bashing first baptist.

Much as you might wish otherwise.

With all of that maddness said...just sounds like you've been on the payrol since childhood. i kicked the bad habits of listening to pompus  blow hards many years ago. I grew up and learned the church is nothing but a place for people ro kiss eachothers ass and take ur money for the preachers new car and girlfriend...so your church hold nothing special

Quotei kicked the bad habits of listening to pompus  blow hards many years ago.

Yet we are supposed to listen to YOU??  :o ::)

Quote from: Garden guy on March 11, 2012, 07:53:18 AM
... i kicked the bad habits of listening to pompus  blow hards

I'm impressed, what an intellectual approach condemning all churches and all believers in one prejudiced statement. It's becoming obvious that you have little interest in an academic discussion. Your premise that all churches are equally evil could only be made if you had indeed visited all churches. Tell you what Garden Guy, I'd like to invite you to meet me at a Jacksonville church of your choice, I'm betting Stephendare would be willing to join us.

So why would anyone want to go to church? IMO in life's journey faith is nourishment, virtuous deeds are a shelter, wisdom is the light by day and right mindfulness is the protection by night. If a man lives a pure life, nothing can destroy him. Consider that the soul is  immortal and we spend our lives trying to train it to detach from the body.

Not to lead you into despair, but at some point in life, one must consider death, and that is REALLY what church is all about. Death is one of two things... Either it is annihilation, and the dead have no consciousness of anything; or, as we are told, it is really a change: a migration of the soul from one place to another. No one knows whether death may not even turn out to be the greatest blessings of human beings. And yet people fear it as if they knew for certain it is the greatest evil. Garden Guy, do you or anti redneck ever noticed that you cannot prove a negative?

Quote...so your church hold nothing special

I believe we may be getting to the bottom of your problem!

OCKLAWAHA

Thank you Stephen for setting the record straight concerning FBC's 'supposed' stranglehold on everything that is DT Jacksonville. All of that fear mongering against FBC was getting ridiculous, and believe me, I never had any kinda affiliation with that church at all. It's so sad that the FBC takeover rumors (used to shame Jax) still work on alot of Natl' posts all over the country; Similar to misconceptions about the Jaguars organization. 

Quote from: thelakelander on March 10, 2012, 10:49:08 PM
What was the deal with the lighthouses?  Isn't the core function of a lighthouse to keep people away?

Well FBC did irk me when they built the light house and parking downtown, paved over my normal parking spot when I was working in the old JEA building.  But other than that always found members pretty warm and friendly.

Yeah I agree with everyone, its time for this to come to an end. At this point, there is no rift between the city and FBC. And Stephen is right, if it wasnt for FBC downtown would look worse than what it does. Think of all those building they won and occupy being empty??

You guys are fucking hilarious saying that downtown is better with fbc....thats the biggest line of bullsit ive ever heard. That group has helped big time to keep this city in the 1940's.

 
I have one thing to say ..........


                                                                   :o

I think downtown was pretty thriving in the 1940's .    Wasn't there but I'm thinking it was !

Quote from: Garden guy on March 11, 2012, 05:47:43 PM
You guys are fucking hilarious saying that downtown is better with fbc....thats the biggest line of bullsit ive ever heard. That group has helped big time to keep this city in the 1940's.

1940's! Oh that it were only true Garden Guy! Imagine 1/4 of a million people a week coming into downtown from Jacksonville Terminal alone, not to mention a live, working downtown waterfront. City streets jammed with CHRISTmas shoppers, and a sense that this is the only city in Florida anyone in the rest of the country takes seriously. If only First Baptist could get us back there, because if they could, we'd all be waiting for that alter call.

Rather then empty BS, Stephen and I would both like to hear you put up or shut up about your problem with God or church. So I repeat myself as I actually put a little thought into what I previously wrote, IMO in life's journey faith is nourishment, virtuous deeds are a shelter, wisdom is the light by day and right mindfulness is the protection by night. If a man lives a pure life, nothing can destroy him. Consider that the soul is  immortal and we spend our lives trying to train it to detach from the body. Sorry if your not capable of a civil discussion at this level, please, if you believe my statement mindless BS, then refute it.

At some point in life, you must consider death, and that is REALLY what church is all about. Death is one of two things... Either it is annihilation, and the dead have no consciousness of anything; or, as we are told, it is really a change: a migration of the soul from one place to another. No one knows whether death may not even turn out to be the greatest blessings of human beings. And yet people fear it as if they knew for certain it is the greatest evil. So what say you Garden Guy?

Quote from: Anti redneck on March 10, 2012, 02:47:21 PM
Pork Chop Gang - a group of 20 conservatives in North Florida who supported segregation (or however it was worded). Honestly, besides being the brother-in-law of Alfred and Jessie duPont, this really tells me very little about Jacksonville going backwards. It's 2012 now and still not much has changed. Anyone have a picture of the Jacksonville skyline from the 1960's? I'm sure it doesn't look that much different now.

Northbank Skyline - 1960
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Downtown-Sears/i-99G8F9K/0/M/Sears1960-M.jpg)

Northbank Skyline - 2011
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/New-Friendship-Fountain/i-FhtcdJW/0/M/P1470056-M.jpg)

I don't attend FBC but did have the opportunity to take a tour of their facilities a few years back.  I believe it would be good for downtown to actually embrace FBC and work with the entity to help open its buildings up to the streets they surround.  For example, just replacing the glass block windows with transparent windows and awnings on FBC's restaurant would enhance the entire block of Laura, between Ashley and Beaver Streets.

Inside:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/First-Baptist-Church-DT/P1310733/785728125_5d6Q8-M.jpg)

Outside:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/First-Baptist-Church-DT/DSC0062/785751028_SXjfF-M.jpg)

Downtown was a ghost town ,back in the 40s .    :o

Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2012, 10:02:55 PM

Quote from: Anti redneck on March 10, 2012, 02:47:21 PM
Pork Chop Gang - a group of 20 conservatives in North Florida who supported segregation (or however it was worded). Honestly, besides being the brother-in-law of Alfred and Jessie duPont, this really tells me very little about Jacksonville going backwards. It's 2012 now and still not much has changed. Anyone have a picture of the Jacksonville skyline from the 1960's? I'm sure it doesn't look that much different now.

Northbank Skyline - 1960
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Downtown-Sears/i-99G8F9K/0/M/Sears1960-M.jpg)

Northbank Skyline - 2011
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/New-Friendship-Fountain/i-FhtcdJW/0/M/P1470056-M.jpg)

Well I deserve a dirty sock in my mouth.

Quote from: Garden guy on March 11, 2012, 05:47:43 PM
You guys are fucking hilarious saying that downtown is better with fbc....thats the biggest line of bullsit ive ever heard. That group has helped big time to keep this city in the 1940's.

I'm at least trying to keep this non-offensive.

And I appreciate non-offensive language.  FWIW, it wasn't FBC but urban sprawl, metered parking, white flight, and urban shopping malls that emptied downtown of businesses.  The newly consolidated city encouraged suburban development (growth) without thinking about, or maybe without realizing, the ultimate detriment to downtown.

Well, you can't stop people from wanting new stores with acres of free parking, so now the idea is to figure out how to get stuff downtown people want to visit that you can't get in the suburbs.  Specialty shops, cool stuff, stuff SJTC and River  City Mrketplace, Regency and Orange Park Mall don't offer.

My only real objection to FBC is that they seem to close half the streets going into or out of downtown to the north and south on Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings/afternoons. But, so do the Jaguars on games days...

Quote from: Debbie Thompson on March 12, 2012, 07:14:26 AM
And I appreciate non-offensive language.  FWIW, it wasn't FBC but urban sprawl, metered parking, white flight, and urban shopping malls that emptied downtown of businesses.  The newly consolidated city encouraged suburban development (growth) without thinking about, or maybe without realizing, the ultimate detriment to downtown.

Well, you can't stop people from wanting new stores with acres of free parking, so now the idea is to figure out how to get stuff downtown people want to visit that you can't get in the suburbs.  Specialty shops, cool stuff, stuff SJTC and River  City Mrketplace, Regency and Orange Park Mall don't offer.

I believe this is our most critical mistake. Focusing on bringing in things to attract suburbanites is worrying about the effects of an ignored cause. White flight and urban sprawl didn't kill downtown. We killed it accidentally by relocating its economic anchors, the rail, maritime, and logistics industries. It artificially survived with the insurance and banking industries until the mergers of the 80s/90s. Until, we focus on establishing a natural economic base that will allow the area to grow organically,  the revitalization process will continue to struggle.

I've heard several members of First Baptist Church are moving to fundamentalist ground zero Mississippi because Jacksonville has 'gone gay' and is quickly becoming much more diverse. Also because Florida has become a solid blue state. In other words, Florida is evolving.

"As of 2012, Mississippi is widely considered the most religious state in the United States of America, with 59% of Mississippians considering themselves "very religious". In 2000 the Southern Baptist Convention had 916,440 adherents and was the largest religious denomination in the state." Wikipedia

Hell yeah!