I saw a flyer, looks like Occupy Wallstreet is coming to jax:
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyJax
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/occupyjax
Here's their unofficial press release:
QuoteHundreds from across Florida will assemble in downtown Jacksonville to hold the first Jacksonville General Assembly in response to the Occupy Wall Street movement in New York City. As a leaderless organization, Occupy Jacksonville seeks to establish a permanent presence in the First Coast area.
At Hemming Plaza, 135 Monroe Street West, crowds will gather at noon to discuss issues, peacefully protest corporate greed and political corruption, and march Saturday, October 8th at 2:00 p.m. The People of Occupy Jacksonville are not governed by any one individual or group, but instead use the General Assembly forumâ€"established by Spaniards earlier in the year and imitated by the Occupy Wall Street protestorsâ€"to create a symposium through which general consensus can develop. The first Jacksonville General Assembly will act as a “Town Hall†forum for debate, dialogue and dissent amongst Floridians who identify the modern economic climate as a key component to national and global unrest.
With 1% of the population overseeing nearly 40% of the nation’s assets, and with economic decisions in Washington D.C. and on Wall Street hindering progress in every sector across the nation, many are in agreement that something needs to change. However, politicians in both major parties continue to side with financially prosperous individuals and corporations at the expense of the other 99% of the population. Those include people of all political, religious, socioeconomic, racial and educational backgrounds. The Jacksonville General Assembly, in solidarity with the New York General Assembly and others across the nation, seeks to address these issues by hearing from all perspectives indiscriminately and forming a united response agreed upon by the entire collective.
Occupy Jacksonville wants to stress its nonviolent approach to societal conversation. Though many individuals will come together from their diverse traditions to protest and march in solidarity, the Jacksonville General Assembly will act as the cornerstone upon which the needs of the 99% will be cautiously built. The collective as a whole is its own spokesperson; no individual opinion represents the consensus of the Jacksonville General Assembly.
All are welcome. None will be turned away. Nonviolence is paramount.
On the same day as the Zombie Walk.......
YESSS!!
I've got my "Eat The Rich" and "Capitalism Must Go" signs at the ready.
I'll be the naked person with the horribly hideous body. Bring a Sharpie, kids!
Quote from: RiversideLoki on October 04, 2011, 11:04:41 PM
On the same day as the Zombie Walk.......
Might actually fit right in.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/111003095550-occupy-wall-street-zombies-story-top.jpg)
QuoteOccupy Wall Street protesters dressed as "corporate zombies" march this week in New York.
But seriously:
QuoteOn Saturday, a group of US Army and Marine troops reportedly traveled to New York to help support the movement and offer protection for protestors against police abuse. One Army serviceman by the name of Ward Reilly posted a message on Facebook on his way to the protests saying, "I didn't fight for Wall St. I fought for America. Now it's Congress' turn," a sentiment apparently shared by the other servicemen veterans traveling to protest locations (http://antinewworldorderparty.wordp...).
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/224345/20111004/occupy-wall-street-the-american-revolution-that-the-mainstream-media-is-ignoring-au-ibtimes-com-ibti.htm
Maybe our military population in Jacksonville.........especially those who got out and are facing their 16% unemployment rate.......will boost attendance at Occupyjax!
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z276/fayeforcure/occupyjax.jpg)
Atlanta Business News 3:31 a.m. Wednesday, October 5, 2011
Wall Street protest expected to widen
.
By VERENA DOBNIK
The Associated Press
NEW YORK â€" The protests on Wall Street, the fabled center of American commerce, are expected to swell with reinforcements as more groups head toward lower Manhattan, widening the scope of the ongoing demonstrations.
Meanwhile, organizers have called for students at college campuses across the nation to walk out of class in protest at 2 p.m.
http://www.ajc.com/business/wall-street-protest-expected-1194594.html
I don't understand what the protests are for? DO they want corporations to give them money? Corporate greed has always been around. It is what freedom guarantees you. The right to be greedy if you want to be, whether it is morally right or not. It sounds like the occupy movement wants to take some freedoms away from people, unless I am missing the point of this.
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 05, 2011, 09:59:43 AM
I don't understand what the protests are for? DO they want corporations to give them money? Corporate greed has always been around. It is what freedom guarantees you. The right to be greedy if you want to be, whether it is morally right or not. It sounds like the occupy movement wants to take some freedoms away from people, unless I am missing the point of this.
Yup its that freedom card.
Lets just say that the protestors want freedom from abuse. Freedom from a life of servitude to the corporatists that now want to charge them for the use of their debit cards.
Maybe they just want freedom of suffering.........something every civilized nation strives for.
FayforeCure,
I completely understand, but let me bring up freedom again. The nice thing about Capitalistic freedom, is that if someone decides they want to charge me $5 to use a debit card, I can just change to a bank or credit union that does not do that. Is BOA and other large corporations corrupt? Quite possibly yes, but if everyone leaves them and takes their money away, I feel that speaks far greater volumes than this.
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 05, 2011, 10:32:27 AM
FayforeCure,
I completely understand, but let me bring up freedom again. The nice thing about Capitalistic freedom, is that if someone decides they want to charge me $5 to use a debit card, I can just change to a bank or credit union that does not do that. Is BOA and other large corporations corrupt? Quite possibly yes, but if everyone leaves them and takes their money away, I feel that speaks far greater volumes than this.
Holy Crapola!?!? Somebody actually gets it!
If all of these 'protesters' emptied their accounts from BOA, JPM, etc.. that WOULD send a signal - but standing in front of a building while their deposits still gain interest for the bank..... Hell, stand there all year - you're still making money for the evil, greedy corporations.
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 05, 2011, 10:32:27 AM
FayforeCure,
I completely understand, but let me bring up freedom again. The nice thing about Capitalistic freedom, is that if someone decides they want to charge me $5 to use a debit card, I can just change to a bank or credit union that does not do that. Is BOA and other large corporations corrupt? Quite possibly yes, but if everyone leaves them and takes their money away, I feel that speaks far greater volumes than this.
So true Dapperdan.......in a simplistic life view.
Do you think Americans have the time to switch their banking from one big bank to another.........switch their automatic deposits and payments over........that entire process costs them hours of time! Time they do not have while they are working 3 jobs just to keep their heads above water.
The abuse just keeps piling on........ and corporatists know the power of inertia when consumers are faced with change. Besides, behind closed doors, other big banks have already all colluded to do the same to their customers.
That's why a society based on oligopoly doesn't have the normal checks and balances that even Adam Smith (who wrote the bible on capitalism) conceded, could only work in a small setting, not in a mass setting.
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 10:45:05 AM
Do you think Americans have the time to switch their banking from one big bank to another.........switch their automatic deposits and payments over........that entire process costs them hours of time! Time they do not have while they are working 3 jobs just to keep their heads above water.
I think most could find the time if they really cared. I found 15 minutes to save 15% on my car insurance so I'm pretty sure I could spend a few hours to save my retirement fund if needed. Also, I'm thinking that those working 3 jobs 'just to keep their heads above water' don't really give a shit what bank they use - more likely, they're cashing their paychecks at Wal-Mart.
Quote
The abuse just keeps piling on........ and corporatists know the power of inertia when consumers are faced with change. Besides, behind closed doors, other big banks have already all colluded to do the same to their customers.
Because we allow it. While all of these 'protesters' are marching on Wall St., Wall St is still investing thieir money. Qui tacet consentit - Their silence is in the form of doing nothing and leaving their money where it is. If you want to break the system, you have to take away the gears of the system. Walking around and chanting does nothing.
Could we get a list of names of the shadowy "corporatists". I want to write a letter... :)
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 10:45:05 AMSo true Dapperdan.......in a simplistic life view.
Do you think Americans have the time to switch their banking from one big bank to another.........switch their automatic deposits and payments over........that entire process costs them hours of time! Time they do not have while they are working 3 jobs just to keep their heads above water.
Is this sarcasm? It's hard to tell.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 05, 2011, 10:59:08 AM
Their silence is in the form of doing nothing and leaving their money where it is. If you want to break the system, you have to take away the gears of the system. Walking around and chanting does nothing.
Ah so if we want to protest the abuses of big pharma..........we should just stop using their medicine.
I see. ???
Every time we turn around, there is someone sticking it to us.
Lets just stop being consumers because our government won't protect us from corporatist abuse.
Quote from: acme54321 on October 05, 2011, 11:12:56 AM
Is this sarcasm? It's hard to tell.
I'm afraid not. This was, though.....
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 05, 2011, 10:59:08 AM
I found 15 minutes to save 15% on my car insurance so I'm pretty sure I could spend a few hours to save my retirement fund if needed.
Someone must have a list of these shadowy corporatists... <not sarcasm> 8)
Still not worth your precious time to reconsider who you bank with, Faye?
QuoteCiti announces new fees on checking accounts
Tuesday October 4, 2011, 8:28 pm EDT
The fees keep coming. Citi is the latest big bank to slap customers with a round of fee hikes. This time, on its checking accounts.
Starting in December, customers who hold its mid-level Citibank Account will be charged $20 a month if they fail to maintain a minimum balance of $15,000 in their combined accounts. Previously, account holders had to carry a minimum balance of $6,000.
At the same time, customers who have the bank's EZ Checking account will start being charged $15 a month if they don't carry a minimum balance of $6,000. Citi (C) says it is phasing out the EZ Checking package, which currently carries no monthly fee, and is instead offering customers either the Citibank Account or its Basic Banking account, which also carries a fee.
Last month, Citi said it is hiking the fee on its Basic Banking account from $8 to $10. Customers will be able to avoid paying the $10 fee by either maintaining a minimum balance of $1,500 or by making one direct deposit and one automatic online payment through their checking account each month, said Citi.
Currently, account holders must make five online transactions per month in order to avoid paying the fee and there is no minimum balance requirement.
Citi's fee hikes come just days after Bank of America announced it would charge a $5 fee for debit card purchases. Wells Fargo, JPMorgan Chase, Sun Trust and Regions Financial have all also rolled out similar fees in select markets in recent weeks.
9 most annoying bank fees
"The regulatory environment has changed a great deal -- particularly with the Durbin Amendment -- and we're seeing the results of that now," said Claes Bell, banking reporter with Bankrate.com. Going forward, "we're going to see more large national banks announce fees."
With the new regulation that caps how much revenue banks can get from the swipe fees they collect from merchants, banks must look for other ways to cover that lost income, explained Nessa Feddis, vice president and senior counsel of the American Bankers Association.
"We don't expect to pay nothing to ride the train, it's the same thing with a checking account," she said.
Citibank said it chose not to charge a debit card fee because its customers did not want it. "There's a reason why we structured it this way," said Catherine Pulley, spokeswoman for Citi. There are also no hidden fees, Pulley added, and customers will benefit from free online bill pay and free access to non-Citi ATM machines.
Bank accounts: Get a fair shake, not a shakedown
While the majority of checking accounts were free last year, less than half now come without a price tag, according to a recent study from bank-comparison site Bankrate, which looked at 243 interest and 238 non-interest accounts.
Like Citi's new offerings, 92% of checking accounts have fee waivers, meaning that if you can meet certain financially requirements, most checking accounts are -- or could become -- free.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Citi-announces-new-fees-on-cnnm-215283525.html?x=0
Not on the following list: Matresses, Buried Jars and Credit Unions, hmmmmm.....
(http://www.thesoapboxroadshow.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/picturegallery661328.tmp/big-bank-theory-chart-large.jpg)
Wow great chart! If it went back further you can see Barnett, which is when I jumped ship.
If these people would close their bank accounts and stop shopping at walmart, they would hit the corporations where it hurts the most-their wallet.
Join a Credit Union. I have never been with a Bank and never will... :)
Quoteif someone decides they want to charge me $5 to use a debit card, I can just change to a bank or credit union that does not do that
We actually went today and closed our acct with Wells because we were sick of the way they ran their bank (tons of undisclosed fees, lost cash deposits, comingled my personal and biz accts) and opened an acct at Regions - the teller at Regions said it won't be long before
ALL banks and credit unions are emposing a fee for using a debit card/using your own money - the question for the consumer will just be whose fee is less. So basically it doesn't matter who you are banking with - they are all going to be charging you to use your money at some point in the near future. Yeah corporate America (sarcasm)
I am all for the protests - we need to support local business and get rid of global economies which are really turning all of us into 3rd world countries. The only way to really do this though is to hit em where it hurts em - stop giving them your money. stop shopping at corporate businesses and give your money to locally owned businesses. its totally possible
i really miss Jacksonville being the banking capital of Florida....ahhhh the days of Barnett!
QuoteEvery time we turn around, there is someone sticking it to us.
Lets just stop being consumers because our government won't protect us from corporatist abuse.
The government won't protect you Faye because the government is causing it. Thank Dick Durbin for debit card fees increasing.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704073804576023514056278814.html#printMode
Quote from: Sigma on October 05, 2011, 02:37:32 PM
QuoteEvery time we turn around, there is someone sticking it to us.
Lets just stop being consumers because our government won't protect us from corporatist abuse.
The government won't protect you Faye because the government is causing it. Thank Dick Durbin for debit card fees increasing.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704073804576023514056278814.html#printMode
Thank you Sigma!
Quote from: Sigma on October 05, 2011, 02:37:32 PM
QuoteEvery time we turn around, there is someone sticking it to us.
Lets just stop being consumers because our government won't protect us from corporatist abuse.
The government won't protect you Faye because the government is causing it. Thank Dick Durbin for debit card fees increasing.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704073804576023514056278814.html#printMode
Corporatists LOVE to blame the government.........it keeps the focus off of themselves.
The reality is that we need
better government...........government that isn't run by the corporatists who then deflect blame for their atrocious actions back onto the government...........see the pattern yet.
If we really had government of the people, by the people, for the people we would be protected from corporatist abuse.
What Republicans want to do is KILL government. First by gutting regulations, then by cutting the regulators.
A great example was how HAMP was set up to fail, because it does nothing to reign in corporatist abuse.
The whole notion of "self-regulation" was created by the corporatists. Or the sense that "free market" forces work to self-regulate (when Adam Smith clearly stated that those forces only work efficiently in small markets), is such a lie.
All of this was mass propaganda for decades.
Since you wont click the link... Faye... I did it for you... :)
QuoteBUSINESSDECEMBER 16, 2010.Fed's New Debit-Card Fee Rules Hit Hard; Issuers Howl
By VICTORIA MCGRANE, DAN FITZPATRICK And RANDALL SMITH
A set of new debit-card restrictions proposed by the Federal Reserve on Thursday was more aggressive than investors feared, potentially causing billions of dollars in lost revenue for U.S. banks and stiffening competition for credit-card providers.
The new restrictions, most of which won't be made final until April 21, aim to cap the amount of money that debit-card issuers can charge merchants for so-called swipe fees. Banks would face a seven-to-12-cent-per-transaction cap on the interchange fees under either of the two proposals unveiled Thursday. That represents as much as an 84% drop from the current average of 44 cents. Analysts had been expecting a drop of up to 60%.
"Nobody expected it to be this draconian," said David Robertson, publisher of credit-card industry newsletter the Nilson Report. One bank executive said the cut was larger than the company's worst-case scenario. Banks, he said, will "push back."
Stocks of debit-card processors and banks that issue cards got hit. MasterCard Inc. plunged $25.73, or 10%, to $223.49. Visa Inc. tumbled $9.75, or 13%, to $67.19.
The card companies don't actually collect swipe fees themselves, but the new proposed rules would loosen their control over the process and allow merchants to choose rival payment networks. Some analysts say banks will try to pass on some of their lost revenue by reducing what they pay the credit-card networks.
MasterCard general counsel Noah Hanft said, "This type of price control is misguided and anticompetitive, and in the end is harmful to consumers." A Visa spokesman declined to comment on the provisions of the proposed rules.
Share prices of big banks which receive debit-interchange revenues took milder trims because their revenues are more diversified. Bank of America Corp. fell 35 cents just after the Fed proposals became public but still finished up 23 cents, or 1.87%, to $12.52.
Still, the banks most affected by the proposed rules include Bank of America and Wells Fargo & Co., both of which derive 2.5% of their revenues from debit interchange revenue. Bank of America took a $10 billion charge during the third quarter to account for drop in the value of its cards business and predicted an annual decline of as much as $2.3 billion. A Bank of America spokesman said the company can't yet comment on specific implications.
A Wells Fargo spokeswoman said the company is reviewing the rules and will provide comment to the Fed. "At this point, it's premature to speculate on the financial impact," she said.
For consumers, the proposed rules could allow merchants to cut prices, reflecting their reduced costs. A $100 transaction today, for example, means merchants currently pay banks as much as $1.30 in debit interchange fees, according to figures provided by the Nilson Report. Under the proposals, the merchant would pay no more than 12 cents, said David Balto, a fellow with the left-leaning Center for American Progress.
That, he said, goes into the consumer's pocket. "That's pretty simple, you're saving a buck," he said.
But the Fed staff members acknowledged that banks may increase monthly checking-account fees and minimum balance requirements or make debit-card reward programs less appealing.
Small banks also decried the Fed proposal, even though the law technically exempts financial institutions with less than $10 billion in assets from the restrictions on fees.
Small banks and credit unions say that any measure to reduce big banks' fees would make it harder for them to compete with the large banks, and would force them to charge lower fees as well.
The rules "essentially relieve retailers of paying their fair share for a card payments system that offers them tremendous benefits," Ed Yingling, president and chief executive of the American Bankers Association, said in a statement. He added that the Fed's proposal was a "bad deal for consumers."
If implemented in their current state, the draft rules are a victory for merchants who for years tried to persuade legislators to reduce interchange fees, contending that banks are charging them too much for debit cards that are essentially no different than cash or checks. The Fed's proposal suggests it was sensitive to that argument.
But staffers also cautioned that its recommendations were limited by the law. Fed governor Kevin Warsh said he hoped the board could find a more "more pro-competitive" alternative to setting prices.
Fed officials delayed putting forth specific recommendations on key issues, instead proposing a series of alternatives and soliciting feedback.
"The proposal today is one that deserves particularly careful attention from the Board, in light of debit cards' increasingly important role in the U.S. payments system," Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said in his opening statement.
The debit-fee provision, championed by Sen. Richard Durbin (D., Ill.) and included in the Dodd-Frank financial-overhaul legislation, has been a concern for the banking industry, which has waged a lobbying campaign at the Fed in the months preceding Thursday's proposal.
In October, regional bank TCF Financial Corp., one of the nation's biggest issuers of debit cards, sued the Federal Reserve to block the new fee limits. A federal judge has scheduled a hearing for April 4 on the Wayzata, Minn., bank's request for a preliminary injunction against the new debit-card rules, TCF officials said.
Meanwhile, a bipartisan group of 13 senators wrote to Mr. Bernanke in the last week expressing concerns with the provision, specifically that "retailers likely to be affected by the provision make no mention of any benefits to consumers." Many experts predict that consumers will be hit with higher bank fees as a result of the rules, the senators wrote.
The Fed outlined two scenarios Thursday. Under one plan, card-issuing banks could use a formula to determine the maximum amount of the interchange fee that it would collect, based on certain processing costs. The Fed would set a "safe harbor" standard at seven cents per transaction. If a bank chose not to accept the seven cents, however, it could recover any costs in excess of the safe-harbor level up to the 12-cents-per-transaction cap.
The second alternative would just set a cap at 12 cents without any safe harbor. Under the staff proposal, the Fed Board would re-evaluate the cap every two years based on banks' costs.
(http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/MI-BH479_DEBIT_NS_20101216194812.jpg)
No worries BT........it's that age-old Republican warning:
Don't bother to regulate anything that could potentially lead to some profit losses, because businesses will stick it to the consumers in a different way. In the end consumers pay no matter what.
Rather, could we just admit that banks make record profits and could absorb some losses from consumer protections without sticking it to us on the other end?
^amen
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 03:01:21 PM
No worries BT........it's that age-old Republican warning:
Don't bother to regulate anything that could potentially lead to some profit losses, because businesses will stick it to the consumers in a different way. In the end consumers pay no matter what.
Rather, could we just admit that banks make record profits and could absorb some losses from consumer protections without sticking it to us on the other end?
So as a business owner, am I not allowed to maximize my profits? What did we do to offset the fees - we required minimum purchases with debit/credit cards and offered 1%-3% off purchases made in cash. Gov't intervention wasn't really necessary was it?
Guess what? I'm still going to require a minimum purchase and remove my cash discount, why? Because I use the same banking institution that my customers do.
Thanks gov't. When's the next bread and cheese line gonna form up?
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 03:01:21 PM
No worries BT........it's that age-old Republican warning:
Don't bother to regulate anything that could potentially lead to some profit losses, because businesses will stick it to the consumers in a different way. In the end consumers pay no matter what.
Rather, could we just admit that banks make record profits and could absorb some losses from consumer protections without sticking it to us on the other end?
So you'd prefer over regulation by the government, stifling economic growth, while foreign competition passes us by and the consumer takes the hit - so you can blame businesses that produce the wealth? nice logic there.
Quote from: Sigma on October 05, 2011, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 03:01:21 PM
No worries BT........it's that age-old Republican warning:
Don't bother to regulate anything that could potentially lead to some profit losses, because businesses will stick it to the consumers in a different way. In the end consumers pay no matter what.
Rather, could we just admit that banks make record profits and could absorb some losses from consumer protections without sticking it to us on the other end?
So you'd prefer over regulation by the government, stifling economic growth, while foreign competition passes us by and the consumer takes the hit - so you can blame businesses that produce the wealth? nice logic there.
Thank you Sigma for the opportunity to answer that question. As with anything in Life.........it's not an all or nothing proposition.
I and many fellow citizens believe in a steady state economy:
http://steadystate.org/
Appropriate regulation doesn't mean over regulation.
This article explains how financialization infects all areas of our lifes.
All of this distortion in the market occurred due to the direct acts of government acting at the behest of fat cat banksters and industry insiders, using the threat of force to strip your wealth.[/i][/i]
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=195434
I hear the moon is nice place for people who want a redistribution of wealth, this time of year.....
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 05, 2011, 03:39:41 PM
I hear the moon is nice place for people who want a redistribution of wealth, this time of year.....
Don't worry mtaininjax, that redistribution of wealth that you are speaking of is alive and well.
But it's in reverse of what you think.
The wealth redistribution has actually worked magnificently well upward over the last 3 decades:
Most Americans have already “sacrificed,†working longer hours for less, with declining wages and growing insecurity. Meanwhile 40% of all income gains over the last generation went to the wealthiest 1% of Americans. The result?
(http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/financial-wealth-united-states.png)
Quote from: monicabrbr on October 05, 2011, 03:38:09 PM
This article explains how financialization infects all areas of our lifes.
All of this distortion in the market occurred due to the direct acts of government acting at the behest of fat cat banksters and industry insiders, using the threat of force to strip your wealth.[/i][/i]
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=195434
Excellent piece:
QuoteWe did not find ourselves here because of the "free market." We are here because the rich and powerful demanded special protections from government that allowed them to enslave you, they enticed you into taking that first hit off the crack pipe of cheap money, and then once you were hooked good they used the jackboot of the government to screw you through changes in the law and special protections for themselves so that you could not easily escape.
The solution is not to demand "free stuff" or "fairness."
The only solution is to remove the excess leverage from the economy - to get rid of the debt that has been accumulated and force recognition of the fact that not only are many people bankrupt but the financial institutions are as well.
BTW I love Dylan Ratigan.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 05, 2011, 03:17:42 PM
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 03:01:21 PM
No worries BT........it's that age-old Republican warning:
Don't bother to regulate anything that could potentially lead to some profit losses, because businesses will stick it to the consumers in a different way. In the end consumers pay no matter what.
Rather, could we just admit that banks make record profits and could absorb some losses from consumer protections without sticking it to us on the other end?
So as a business owner, am I not allowed to maximize my profits?
Nope - maximizing profits is GREEEEDY. And EEEEVIL. And oh-so REPUUUUBLICAN.
Quote from: Doctor_K on October 05, 2011, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 05, 2011, 03:17:42 PM
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 03:01:21 PM
No worries BT........it's that age-old Republican warning:
Don't bother to regulate anything that could potentially lead to some profit losses, because businesses will stick it to the consumers in a different way. In the end consumers pay no matter what.
Rather, could we just admit that banks make record profits and could absorb some losses from consumer protections without sticking it to us on the other end?
So as a business owner, am I not allowed to maximize my profits?
Nope - maximizing profits is GREEEEDY. And EEEEVIL. And oh-so REPUUUUBLICAN.
No, maximizing profits is unsustainable and self-destructive with huge collateral damage.
Check out the demise of Health South. CNBC just aired GreedyAmerica featuring Health South last night.
Quote from: coredumped on October 04, 2011, 07:59:56 PM
I saw a flyer, looks like Occupy Wallstreet is coming to jax:
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyJax
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/occupyjax
Here's their unofficial press release:
QuoteHundreds from across Florida will assemble in downtown Jacksonville to hold the first Jacksonville General Assembly in response to the Occupy Wall Street movement in New York City. As a leaderless organization, Occupy Jacksonville seeks to establish a permanent presence in the First Coast area.
At Hemming Plaza, 135 Monroe Street West, crowds will gather at noon to discuss issues, peacefully protest corporate greed and political corruption, and march Saturday, October 8th at 2:00 p.m. The People of Occupy Jacksonville are not governed by any one individual or group, but instead use the General Assembly forumâ€"established by Spaniards earlier in the year and imitated by the Occupy Wall Street protestorsâ€"to create a symposium through which general consensus can develop. The first Jacksonville General Assembly will act as a “Town Hall†forum for debate, dialogue and dissent amongst Floridians who identify the modern economic climate as a key component to national and global unrest.
With 1% of the population overseeing nearly 40% of the nation’s assets, and with economic decisions in Washington D.C. and on Wall Street hindering progress in every sector across the nation, many are in agreement that something needs to change. However, politicians in both major parties continue to side with financially prosperous individuals and corporations at the expense of the other 99% of the population. Those include people of all political, religious, socioeconomic, racial and educational backgrounds. The Jacksonville General Assembly, in solidarity with the New York General Assembly and others across the nation, seeks to address these issues by hearing from all perspectives indiscriminately and forming a united response agreed upon by the entire collective.
Occupy Jacksonville wants to stress its nonviolent approach to societal conversation. Though many individuals will come together from their diverse traditions to protest and march in solidarity, the Jacksonville General Assembly will act as the cornerstone upon which the needs of the 99% will be cautiously built. The collective as a whole is its own spokesperson; no individual opinion represents the consensus of the Jacksonville General Assembly.
All are welcome. None will be turned away. Nonviolence is paramount.
Will the homeless outnumber the occupiers?
Quote from: Sigma on October 05, 2011, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 03:01:21 PM
No worries BT........it's that age-old Republican warning:
Don't bother to regulate anything that could potentially lead to some profit losses, because businesses will stick it to the consumers in a different way. In the end consumers pay no matter what.
Rather, could we just admit that banks make record profits and could absorb some losses from consumer protections without sticking it to us on the other end?
So you'd prefer over regulation by the government, stifling economic growth, while foreign competition passes us by and the consumer takes the hit - so you can blame businesses that produce the wealth? nice logic there.
In Sept 2008, the melt down, was attributed to banks investing in "toxic mortgages, toxic assets." Lack of monitoring from the Federal Reserve and Its lethal allowance of "derivatives", "shadow banking systems. the LACK OF FEDERAL REGULATION
was attributed to the failure by the Financial Crisis Inquiry Committee. The committee found that this financial crisis was preventable by this and many other factors listed in this wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_financial_crisis_of_2007-2010
Concerning "foreign competition" many more foreign banks collapsed than American until, like the Us govt, foreign governments chose to bail those banks out. A big difference from us is that the conditions were much MORE stringent in a more firm government regulated policy by those foreign nations.
Its not that the business (the banks) are producing the wealth. Its that those very banks would have collapsed, gone bankrupt, if not for the government, The 99% ers (which includes all of US) the 99% of the people of our country. And now those banks refuse to lend money at reasonable rates, charging HIGHER rates to more endangered people (us) who have a "lower credit rating"
who commonly pay MUCH higher TAXES to have BAILED out those banks(not people, "corporations") than the 1% wealthy!
The paradox goes back further to the beginning of that meltdown when many congressmen, like our own Ander Crenshaw and John Mica, voiced strong thoughts about NOT bailing out the banks. Eventually they agreed with President Bush to support the bailout on the insistence of Fed head Ben Bernanke. But in todays economy, the people are increasingly realising that the banks (corporations, not people) have exploited this whole crisis to actually make unprecedented profits while the 99% are rapidly entering UNPRECEDENTED poverty. Looks like our republican conservative congressmen had a point!
Its not enough about taking your business elsewhere, because many here did such, even before this crisis. Its not about outnumbering the homeless in Hemming Plaza, its not about playing chess in the park. Its about the 99% (people) being "hoodwinked" by the 1%, corporations, WHO EXIST, WHERE? ONLY ON WALL STREET!
How to get the occupiers to occupy anything when they're already pre-occupied is the real trick.
On the other hand, there will be new people to play chess with this weekend in Hemming Plaza.
I don't know about other events in jax............like other protests.........but there sure seems to be interest in OccupyJax on facebook.
Almost 1500 people from jax have already "liked" the Occupyjax page:
http://www.facebook.com/OccupyJax
This might be the one where right and left will join to voice our concern about corporate greed destroying our country. How many of us have lost our homes to foreclosure?
Jax has the dubious distinction of having been at the epicenter of the rocket docket that handled hundreds of foreclosures per day through robo signing without due process.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-courts-helping-banks-screw-over-homeowners-20101110
(http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/matt-taibbi-courts-helping-banks-screw-over-homeowners-20101110/1000x306/main.jpg)
All of us who have been screwed over need to be there.
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 05, 2011, 06:28:18 PM
I don't know about other events in jax............like other protests.........but there sure seems to be interest in OccupyJax on facebook.
Almost 1500 people from jax have already "liked" the Occupyjax page:
http://www.facebook.com/OccupyJax
This might be the one where right and left will join to voice our concern about corporate greed destroying our country. How many of us have lost our homes to foreclosure?
Jax has the dubious distinction of having been at the epicenter of the rocket docket that handled hundreds of foreclosures per day through robo signing without due process.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-courts-helping-banks-screw-over-homeowners-20101110
(http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/matt-taibbi-courts-helping-banks-screw-over-homeowners-20101110/1000x306/main.jpg)
All of us who have been screwed over need to be there.
It will be huge!!! While all of us wont be there, MANY WILL!!!
YAY, First Coast News just aired this:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/1202371381001/1/Occupy-Wall-Street-Coming-to-Jacksonville
1500 likes, and, at the time of this writing, 460 attending:
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=197668320306311 (the count is on the left hand side)
I figure about 75% will turn out, 50% if it's raining, and 25% if dancing with the stars is on:D
All these protests are a massive waste of time, energy and money. If anyone seriously belives they can change corporatism by perching themselves in the middle of a street or park for a few hours, then it is too late for you. You unfortunately will achieve nothing more than a suntan (assuming it is a sunny day).
You folks on MetroJacksonville are all way too smart to take place in this aimless protest. You really are. Left, Right Centrists, it doesn't matter. You are too intelligent sit in a park all day holding signs.
If you really care that much about greed and the broken system we have ( and it is broken), then you have to actually do something about it with your wallet, not your bongo drum. Those rich 1 percenters don't stay rich by not getting monmey from the bottom 80 percenters. The 80 percenters spend every day (out of nescessity and out of desire) and the profits go to that top group that you dislike so much.
....if all these protesters spent less time sitting in a park and spending money on signs and costumes, I think they would realize that they would be better off spending that time planning businesses and co-ops with each other. The best way to make Warren Buffet poorer is to group thousands of protesters together and have them start up a co-op car insurance company. That would be less money for GEICO.
..If you dislike the Koch brothers, don't buy Dixie plates, Angel Soft or any other GP product., etc.
The power of the people is within them. If you don't like the system, change it. That is best way to redistribute the wealth. If you don't want to do that, then save your money, cosume less and buy stock in the companies you use. At least then you will get a say in the company and get back a portion of the profits via dividends.
I never thought that I would be the fervent capitalist on this board, but these protests just make me shake my head in confusion.
Protests are great if they have a specific purpose. These protests unfortunately do not. Ending injustice is not a realistic or quantifiable goal. You can't fight a concept. Our police have learned that in the war on drugs and our military has learned that in our many freedom fighting missions overseas.
ah, the metrojacksonville lurkers are coming out to discourage us.
His/her suggestion: stop being a consumer!
Stop believing in an accountable democracy........it doesn't work/exist.
Sorry chipwich, you're too late. The American Spring has started...........even in Jax!!
Best of luck then. I hope you suceed in whatever it is you are trying to accomplish.
In protest of the protest I am occupying my couch. What gravity hath united, let no man put asunder.
Quote from: chipwich on October 05, 2011, 07:25:48 PM
Best of luck then. I hope you suceed in whatever it is you are trying to accomplish.
Thank you chipwich. Much appreciated :)
I protest by not banking with these horrible banks. Keeping my money in our community is a great side effect:)
I’ve heard it said that the protest on Wall Street is lacking firm statements of intention or objectives. The specifics and demands more aligned with reality will in time emerge to clarity. The population increasingly knows “something†is wrong, but a problem evolved silently and covertly over decades via the pressures of the human passion for greediness, power, and selfish machinations to its current complexity eludes description for now. A struggle’s lack of clarity and awkwardness is no cause for dismissal, but a cause for concern, as the very fact of its existence describes powerful injustices within our society.
The fundamental wrongs placed upon our vulnerable and suffering population over decades of manipulation and abuse by those welding the real power behind the scenes, both in our government, and in our moneyed elites, will finally be brought to light by the pressure of truth. If democracy returns to work again in this country, the emergence of truth during the times of unrest will cause action for change and removal of the current absurd oligarchic power structure that has crept upon us over recent decades.
Although my civility resists it, my imagination takes me still to the ideals of justice, and those ideals include fantasies of the guillotine being used to apply justice to some of the individuals who over the decades have, through their greed, arrogance, and their total lack of consideration for the average citizen, engaged in actions that, if we were to know of their true nature and excesses, would give many of us great pleasure to observe how well the guillotine works upon the heads of these arrogant elites; those who are puffed-up over their three homes and two yachts and millions in offshore accounts, as they look proudly down upon those who, as a direct result of decisions made by these corrupt elites, have no homes, little food, no job, and not even a money to ride the bus.
Apparently there is not even a rough draft list of these shadowy "corporatists" and "elites" who are causing all this damage. Just who are these people?? :o
The corporations bro!
Quote from: acme54321 on October 06, 2011, 06:51:09 AM
The corporations bro!
Ah... so it should be pretty easy to list ALL CEO's, board of directors, and stockholders of ALL corporations. Or maybe it is just the CEO's? Or the Boards? Stockholders? Surely the people who work at corporations must share blame in this elitist attitude...
The irony here is that this protest is probably going to die before it gets off the ground. The organizers are finding out that there's all sorts of "laws" and things they can't say to JSO or they'll have to get a permit and insurance for the event. With the additional fact that they can't stay overnight in Hemming Plaza.
I agree with the message, but if you're gonna protest, protest. Don't go all half-cocked on it.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 06, 2011, 06:55:46 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on October 06, 2011, 06:51:09 AM
The corporations bro!
Ah... so it should be pretty easy to list ALL CEO's, board of directors, and stockholders of ALL corporations. Or maybe it is just the CEO's? Or the Boards? Stockholders? Surely the people who work at corporations must share blame in this elitist attitude...
All of them! Domestic terrorists!!
Quote from: acme54321 on October 06, 2011, 07:47:25 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 06, 2011, 06:55:46 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on October 06, 2011, 06:51:09 AM
The corporations bro!
Ah... so it should be pretty easy to list ALL CEO's, board of directors, and stockholders of ALL corporations. Or maybe it is just the CEO's? Or the Boards? Stockholders? Surely the people who work at corporations must share blame in this elitist attitude...
All of them! Domestic terrorists!!
I thought so... pretty broad brush...
"Although my civility resists it, my imagination takes me still to the ideals of justice, and those ideals include fantasies of the guillotine being used to apply justice to some of the individuals who over the decades have"
Well as long as your civility resists it your cool
QuoteOccupy Jacksonville
There has been some talk about in future "walk abouts" to spread them out all across the city at strategic locations, example walk abouts in Mandarin, West side, , Arlington, Ocean Way, Orange Park. Spread this thing out a bit so there is not such a concentrated number of people in one place. Use Duvals vast area to our advantage.
I learned of this walk about thing back in the late 80's - it's a good way to clear your head, but you have to have the right background music....
http://www.youtube.com/v/8fFRyTZEjb4?
All kidding aside..........
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Occupy Wall Street demonstrators aren't just in New York.
The movement has gone from there to Washington, DC, to Los Angeles and now Jacksonville.
A website called OccupyJacksonville is calling for people to meet at noon Saturday in Hemming Plaza for a peace and solidarity meeting.
Geno Burch is a supporter. "With the people joining together then we can have our voice be heard because the top corporations have ignored us for so long," said Burch.
The leaderless group is spreading its message using social media.
It has more than a thousand followers on its Facebook page and 300 plus on Twitter.
The demonstrators say they stand against corporate greed, social inequality and global climate change.
"Our deficit is at an all-time high, our dollar is at an all-time low, unemployment rates aren't going anywhere...people are mad and they're not going to take it anymore," said Burch.
The Occupy Jacksonville folks say Saturday's meeting in the Hemming Plaza is just to organize what is expected to be an even larger, national movement come October 15th.
Despite more than 700 demonstrators being arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge this past weekend, Occupy Jax supporters say their meetings will be peaceful showing of solidarity.
First Coast News
Check out the video at:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/article/221712/483/Occupy-Jacksonville-Assembly-Set-for-Hemming-Plaza
These people are mostly Mac users. They all have iPods and many have iPhones. They have cars and they most likely drive a car most suitable to their personality and their need. They most likely rent in a property owned by a large real estate company or own a home with a mortgage held by Fannie or Freddie (not to mention the debt on that rental property is probably held by Fannie/Freddie, too). They use GE appliances. They have athletic equipment. They eat food. Their whole lives are run and guaranteed by corporations, many of which provide a great service or build a great product. At the helms of all of these corporations are millionaires and billionaires. And at the helm of the economy is Wall St and banks, whose setup, which was allowed under our great Constitution, has built a system that put our country at the forefront of everything in the world. Without financial markets, we would literally still be stuck in the industrial revolution or worse. Now bad government policies are hurting both Wall St and our manufacturers and setting us back. Regulations are hurting our innovative spirit.
If they TRULY were against capitalism and corporations, they would do what real protesters/anti-capitalists did over a century ago and form a commune whereby they farmed and did everything on their own, all shared.
Instead, these are lazy brats expecting handouts and "changes" for nothing. These are all people who if offered a $70K job with any of these corporations, would take it in a heartbeat and become that company's biggest fan. Granted, I wouldn't expect that to happen because I would expect their laziness here to translate to laziness there, but the point remains.
We're getting to a point where it's not just the welfare society who expects stuff for nothing, it's college kids and now people who have been through perhaps the first rough patch in their lives. As bad as it is now and as poor as we all are now, we still have it better than we did in the 1970s, let alone the 1930s or before.
I'll believe these people when they declare happiness that billionaire CEO Steve Jobs passed away yesterday and they start smashing their Apple products, vowing never to buy Apple products again.
Back to bad policy and regulation: why not protest those? Democrats and Republicans are all passing bills with regulations meant to gain them political trust (as in with all these useful idiots), but that's all these regulations are good for. Keeping the same people in office is the goal, not helping our economy. We need a leader who will tell the American people like it really is, not ask us for favors or tell us who to love and who to hate, and tackle our POLITICAL problem of partisan crap and lies.
I am a salary-paid employee in a small business company who loves to play with Macbook and Android phones. Why you have to jump to the steroetype of some lazy bums?
Come on people, be realistic, and don't be those bunch of assholes who likes to rip new ones on forums.
I want to be part of the protest.
-Josh
I wish I didn't have to work Saturday because I have some preliminary sketches of a guillotine I'd like to offer to the protesters in the event that future events produce a need. I don't mean to get head of the game, but I'd hate be without the necessary contraption if things evolve nastily. Seriously though, I do have some additional general opinions concerning the current flow of things, but I am trapped at work for a spell.
Quote from: simms3 on October 06, 2011, 09:15:37 AM
They eat food.
Who? These people.....
(http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2011/10/occupy-wall-st-zombies.jpg)
Yep, it's a really strict diet they follow, you know......
(http://myspaceantics.com/images/myspace-graphics/funny-pictures/Zombie-food-pyramid.jpg)
Quote from: simms3 on October 06, 2011, 09:15:37 AM
Without financial markets, we would literally still be stuck in the industrial revolution or worse. Now bad government policies are hurting both Wall St and our manufacturers and setting us back. Regulations are hurting our innovative spirit.
If they TRULY were against capitalism and corporations, they would do what real protesters/anti-capitalists did over a century ago and form a commune whereby they farmed and did everything on their own, all shared.
Instead, these are lazy brats expecting handouts and "changes" for nothing. These are all people who if offered a $70K job with any of these corporations, would take it in a heartbeat and become that company's biggest fan. Granted, I wouldn't expect that to happen because I would expect their laziness here to translate to laziness there, but the point remains.
We're getting to a point where it's not just the welfare society who expects stuff for nothing, it's college kids and now people who have been through perhaps the first rough patch in their lives. As bad as it is now and as poor as we all are now, we still have it better than we did in the 1970s, let alone the 1930s or before.
I'll believe these people when they declare happiness that billionaire CEO Steve Jobs passed away yesterday and they start smashing their Apple products, vowing never to buy Apple products again.
Back to bad policy and regulation: why not protest those? Democrats and Republicans are all passing bills with regulations meant to gain them political trust (as in with all these useful idiots), but that's all these regulations are good for. Keeping the same people in office is the goal, not helping our economy. We need a leader who will tell the American people like it really is, not ask us for favors or tell us who to love and who to hate, and tackle our POLITICAL problem of partisan crap and lies.
We want effective financial markets, NOT destructive ones.
We want effective policy, NOT just protections for the corporatists.
But in typical Republican fashion you want to shoot the messenger by name-calling: Lazy.....granola-eating.
Lets examine your own contradiction in this quote:
QuoteThese people are mostly Mac users. They all have iPods and many have iPhones. They have cars and they most likely drive a car most suitable to their personality and their need. They most likely rent in a property owned by a large real estate company or own a home with a mortgage held by Fannie or Freddie (not to mention the debt on that rental property is probably held by Fannie/Freddie, too). They use GE appliances. They have athletic equipment. They eat food. Their whole lives are run and guaranteed by corporations,
And these people were able to purchase thes items by being lazy? Oh sorry, they expected these for free!!
I get it:...............just wish the protesters away with irrational name-calling.
A tad bit immature don't you think?
But go ahead, continue your "laudable" efforts to protect the corporatists who caused our economic crisis, and who do not want to do their share to fix it, because they just LOVE their mega profits while we are the losers..
Who are the only ones asked to sacrifice?
Hmmmmm yeah, I thought so: WE, THE PEOPLE!
I'm sure you'd be happy to hand in your social security in order to help the corporatists restore our economy, right?
Or maybe we should just move our retirement ages up, so we are sure nobody is alive anymore to collect social security!
Those are perfect solutions for the corporatists, while they laugh all the way to the bank as we fight amongst ourselves.
I would never be considered a liberal but even I am taken aback by those who state "just don't do business with them" as that will solve the financialization and graft (not greed boys & girls) of our society. Okay, so 90% of us do not do business with Goldman Sachs. How does that change anything? The corporations do wield too much power over government; a compliant government by the way.
No, protesting or such is not the only solution either but it could be part of it. If consumer sentiment is not relevant why does the FED give any credence to it? Well, let's not get started on the FED as they are the third wheel of our problems.
Hell, I'm from Texas and even I don't drink the Kool-Aid! Look at what has happened . . . this is not a liberal/conservative specific issue. All parties in Congress are culpable.
Been giving a little thought to this, and I know this comment is going to come out wrong, but we are using 10s of thousands of man hours to stage these - Occupy this and that - to try and force the hand of big business, and probably to no avail.
There's a guy laughing in his grave to see how CIVILIZED we actually are. He was able to shut us down financially, and you could say that we still haven't fully recovered, with 19 people and 3 aircraft. Simple. Effective. To the point.
All these protesters can keep pushing the boulder up the hill, but what they don't seem to realize is the hill is being built faster than they can push the boulder. Sometimes, you just need to blow up the hill (figuratively, not literally), and you can't do that while you're pushing a fucking boulder.
But at least they have got all of us talking about it, haven't they. That's one of the things that demonstrations do.
Sure. Talking.
Has anyone done anything?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 06, 2011, 10:32:51 AM
Been giving a little thought to this, and I know this comment is going to come out wrong, but we are using 10s of thousands of man hours to stage these - Occupy this and that - to try and force the hand of big business, and probably to no avail.
There's a guy laughing in his grave to see how CIVILIZED we actually are. He was able to shut us down financially, and you could say that we still haven't fully recovered, with 19 people and 3 aircraft. Simple. Effective. To the point.
All these protesters can keep pushing the boulder up the hill, but what they don't seem to realize is the hill is being built faster than they can push the boulder. Sometimes, you just need to blow up the hill (figuratively, not literally), and you can't do that while you're pushing a fucking boulder.
Yeah, interesting point of view.
Anonymous has been waging a somewhat effective "peaceful" effort, and the Arab Spring (which though wasn't non-violent) waged their effective protest through social media.
In Tunesia, a market merchant started the revolution when he committed suicide.
A woman in Libya who was raped, got a lot of media attention when she stood up against her government.
We will see if this diffuse effort of mass protest across the US will gain even more traction by Oct 15th.
What makes it so effective is that it is "local" everywhere, and right AND left can see themselves being screwed by the corporatists who demand ever more sacrifices from us while they continue to increase their mega-profits at our personal expense, the expense of our environment, and the expense of our future as a nation.
QuoteHundreds hold Hands Across the Sand along First Coast beaches to protest offshore oil drilling
Protesters' goal in Beaches and beyond: 'No drill, no spill!'
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/community/shorelines/2010-06-28/story/hundreds-hold-hands-across-sand-along-beaches-protest-offshore#ixzz1a0tmzcvN
Does anyone remeber this? I do. I had 10 personal friends DRIVE THEIR INDIVIDUAL CARS to this event. Sort of ironic, huh? They were all for the cause, but had things to do later in the afternoon, so carpooling or biking was out of the question. I'm all for it, just don't let it get in the way of my life.
So sure, I have kind of a slanted view towards 'protesting' because of this and other things.
Not to sterotype too much, but I have to agree with Simms on a good deal of this. If you can afford to protest, then obviously you don't need to work, which puts you a little closer to the 1% than it does the other 99%, IMO. And yes, I'm willing to guess that the majority of the 'protesters' are willing to stand up to the big, bad corps - until it actually affects their way of life, and then they'll back down and be worse off then when they started.
It takes actual action, not standing around chanting. Feel free to list off the causes that 'won their fight' without resorting to action.....
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 06, 2011, 10:45:50 AM
In Tunesia, a market merchant started the revolution when he committed suicide.
so his suicide effectively changed the regime? Hardly....
Quote The public's anger and violence intensified following Bouazizi's death, leading then-President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali to step down on 14 January 2011, after 23 years in power.
So much for peaceful, huh?
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 06, 2011, 10:35:37 AM
But at least they have got all of us talking about it, haven't they. That's one of the things that demonstrations do.
Interesting. So what is your overall take on the effectiveness of the Tea Party? just curious. I realize that an 80-year old lady from Muncie, Indiana is a dangerous terrorist and racist and causes far more trouble than these fine citizens, but just wanting to get your take.
I agree with Simms. If the protestors truly want to change the status-quo, they are protesting at the wrong venue. Try going to Washington and protesting at the WhiteHouse and the Capitol. That's where all these wonderful policies are decided, not within the doors of Wall Street. The actions taken by the major corporations in our country are reactive, not proactive. The react to a regulation or policy or law that is put in place. They either try to find loopholes around it so they can stay in business (I know, God forbid a company makes money, right? lol), or in the case of many mortgage companies they abide by it and then take the government's bribe: We'll pay you 'x' if you fall on the knife for us.
I agree that things are really effed up too. But I also know there's a way to change that besides protesting to the point that you prevent hard-working Americans from being able to do their jobs and bring food home to their families: You VOTE!!!
Quote from: second_pancake on October 06, 2011, 11:15:56 AM
I agree with Simms. If the protestors truly want to change the status-quo, they are protesting at the wrong venue. Try going to Washington and protesting at the WhiteHouse and the Capitol, not within the doors of Wall Street.
I agree that things are really effed up too. But I also know there's a way to change that besides protesting to the point that you prevent hard-working Americans from being able to do their jobs and bring food home to their families: You VOTE!!!
That's precisely our point: Wall Street OWNS the White House and the Capitol!!!
Also most messages in DC get out by all kinds of daily protests there. Those anti-war protests in DC sure helped ::)
Besides, we all have plenty of money to travel to DC and take off from work.........now don't we?
For those of us who have tried that route........it's a lost cause.
Take it local...........all across the US!
95% of incumbents get re-elected due to gerry-mandered districts. Message: your vote doesn't count!!
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 06, 2011, 11:32:10 AM
Quote from: second_pancake on October 06, 2011, 11:15:56 AM
I agree with Simms. If the protestors truly want to change the status-quo, they are protesting at the wrong venue. Try going to Washington and protesting at the WhiteHouse and the Capitol.
I agree that things are really effed up too. But I also know there's a way to change that besides protesting to the point that you prevent hard-working Americans from being able to do their jobs and bring food home to their families: You VOTE!!!
Yeah, why no just have your message be drowned out by all kinds of daily protests in DC. Those anti-war protests in DC sure helped ::)
Besides, we all have plenty of money to travel to DC and take off from work.........now don't we?
For those of us who have tried that route........it's a lost cause.
Take it local...........all across the US!
95% of incumbents get re-elected due to gerry-mandered districts. Message: your vote doesn't count!!
You left off the statement which indicating that I was referring to Wall Street, not Jacksonville. How convenient.
Quote from: second_pancake on October 06, 2011, 11:40:59 AM
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 06, 2011, 11:32:10 AM
Quote from: second_pancake on October 06, 2011, 11:15:56 AM
I agree with Simms. If the protestors truly want to change the status-quo, they are protesting at the wrong venue. Try going to Washington and protesting at the WhiteHouse and the Capitol.
I agree that things are really effed up too. But I also know there's a way to change that besides protesting to the point that you prevent hard-working Americans from being able to do their jobs and bring food home to their families: You VOTE!!!
Yeah, why no just have your message be drowned out by all kinds of daily protests in DC. Those anti-war protests in DC sure helped ::)
Besides, we all have plenty of money to travel to DC and take off from work.........now don't we?
For those of us who have tried that route........it's a lost cause.
Take it local...........all across the US!
95% of incumbents get re-elected due to gerry-mandered districts. Message: your vote doesn't count!!
You left off the statement which indicating that I was referring to Wall Street, not Jacksonville. How convenient.
Thank you, it's corrected.
BTW this thread is bringing out people who rarely post on metrojacksonville. Apparently it has started a much needed conversation here, and increased awareness.
It's a beautiful thing to see that we all agree on the problem.........just still collectively looking for solutions.
What inspires me, as an economist, is the Center for the Advancement of a Steady State Economy:
http://steadystate.org/
Quote from: stephendare on October 06, 2011, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: simms3 on October 06, 2011, 09:15:37 AM
These people are mostly Mac users. They all have iPods and many have iPhones. They have cars and they most likely drive a car most suitable to their personality and their need. They most likely rent in a property owned by a large real estate company or own a home with a mortgage held by Fannie or Freddie (not to mention the debt on that rental property is probably held by Fannie/Freddie, too). They use GE appliances. They have athletic equipment. They eat food. Their whole lives are run and guaranteed by corporations, many of which provide a great service or build a great product. At the helms of all of these corporations are millionaires and billionaires. And at the helm of the economy is Wall St and banks, whose setup, which was allowed under our great Constitution, has built a system that put our country at the forefront of everything in the world. Without financial markets, we would literally still be stuck in the industrial revolution or worse. Now bad government policies are hurting both Wall St and our manufacturers and setting us back. Regulations are hurting our innovative spirit.
If they TRULY were against capitalism and corporations, they would do what real protesters/anti-capitalists did over a century ago and form a commune whereby they farmed and did everything on their own, all shared.
Instead, these are lazy brats expecting handouts and "changes" for nothing. These are all people who if offered a $70K job with any of these corporations, would take it in a heartbeat and become that company's biggest fan. Granted, I wouldn't expect that to happen because I would expect their laziness here to translate to laziness there, but the point remains.
We're getting to a point where it's not just the welfare society who expects stuff for nothing, it's college kids and now people who have been through perhaps the first rough patch in their lives. As bad as it is now and as poor as we all are now, we still have it better than we did in the 1970s, let alone the 1930s or before.
I'll believe these people when they declare happiness that billionaire CEO Steve Jobs passed away yesterday and they start smashing their Apple products, vowing never to buy Apple products again.
Back to bad policy and regulation: why not protest those? Democrats and Republicans are all passing bills with regulations meant to gain them political trust (as in with all these useful idiots), but that's all these regulations are good for. Keeping the same people in office is the goal, not helping our economy. We need a leader who will tell the American people like it really is, not ask us for favors or tell us who to love and who to hate, and tackle our POLITICAL problem of partisan crap and lies.
where ever do you get this stuff simms?
I think most people have the same opinion of Ortega raised white bread, but I certainly hope that you don't buy into that rubbish either.
Making a statement at Wall Street, on Wall Street, for Wall Street is about the smartest thing that people have done for a while.
Washington is controlled by money, not protests, take the statement to where the money is and let those bastards know that they personally have arrived on the public radar.
I have a feeling this is going to lead to one of the most effective protests in a while simply because it rewrites the script on where the conflict lies.
+1.
It baffles my why 100% of Americans aren't supporting these people.
Quote from: ben says on October 06, 2011, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: stephendare on October 06, 2011, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: simms3 on October 06, 2011, 09:15:37 AM
These people are mostly Mac users. They all have iPods and many have iPhones. They have cars and they most likely drive a car most suitable to their personality and their need. They most likely rent in a property owned by a large real estate company or own a home with a mortgage held by Fannie or Freddie (not to mention the debt on that rental property is probably held by Fannie/Freddie, too). They use GE appliances. They have athletic equipment. They eat food. Their whole lives are run and guaranteed by corporations, many of which provide a great service or build a great product. At the helms of all of these corporations are millionaires and billionaires. And at the helm of the economy is Wall St and banks, whose setup, which was allowed under our great Constitution, has built a system that put our country at the forefront of everything in the world. Without financial markets, we would literally still be stuck in the industrial revolution or worse. Now bad government policies are hurting both Wall St and our manufacturers and setting us back. Regulations are hurting our innovative spirit.
If they TRULY were against capitalism and corporations, they would do what real protesters/anti-capitalists did over a century ago and form a commune whereby they farmed and did everything on their own, all shared.
Instead, these are lazy brats expecting handouts and "changes" for nothing. These are all people who if offered a $70K job with any of these corporations, would take it in a heartbeat and become that company's biggest fan. Granted, I wouldn't expect that to happen because I would expect their laziness here to translate to laziness there, but the point remains.
We're getting to a point where it's not just the welfare society who expects stuff for nothing, it's college kids and now people who have been through perhaps the first rough patch in their lives. As bad as it is now and as poor as we all are now, we still have it better than we did in the 1970s, let alone the 1930s or before.
I'll believe these people when they declare happiness that billionaire CEO Steve Jobs passed away yesterday and they start smashing their Apple products, vowing never to buy Apple products again.
Back to bad policy and regulation: why not protest those? Democrats and Republicans are all passing bills with regulations meant to gain them political trust (as in with all these useful idiots), but that's all these regulations are good for. Keeping the same people in office is the goal, not helping our economy. We need a leader who will tell the American people like it really is, not ask us for favors or tell us who to love and who to hate, and tackle our POLITICAL problem of partisan crap and lies.
where ever do you get this stuff simms?
I think most people have the same opinion of Ortega raised white bread, but I certainly hope that you don't buy into that rubbish either.
Making a statement at Wall Street, on Wall Street, for Wall Street is about the smartest thing that people have done for a while.
Washington is controlled by money, not protests, take the statement to where the money is and let those bastards know that they personally have arrived on the public radar.
I have a feeling this is going to lead to one of the most effective protests in a while simply because it rewrites the script on where the conflict lies.
+1.
It baffles my why 100% of Americans aren't supporting these people.
Is it because we still do not know who these bastards are that we keep hearing about. Are they Wall St traders? Cleaning crew? IT staff? CEO's? Stckholders? Boards of directors? All Corporations? Some corporations? A few corporations?
Quotetake the statement to where the money is and let those bastards know that they personally have arrived on the public radar.
For it to be personal... at least for me... I need to know who they are...
Quote from: second_pancake on October 06, 2011, 11:15:56 AM
I agree with Simms. If the protestors truly want to change the status-quo, they are protesting at the wrong venue. Try going to Washington and protesting at the WhiteHouse and the Capitol. That's where all these wonderful policies are decided, not within the doors of Wall Street. The actions taken by the major corporations in our country are reactive, not proactive. The react to a regulation or policy or law that is put in place. They either try to find loopholes around it so they can stay in business (I know, God forbid a company makes money, right? lol), or in the case of many mortgage companies they abide by it and then take the government's bribe: We'll pay you 'x' if you fall on the knife for us.
I agree that things are really effed up too. But I also know there's a way to change that besides protesting to the point that you prevent hard-working Americans from being able to do their jobs and bring food home to their families: You VOTE!!!
You don't get the whole point. The reason there are protests EVERYWHERE on the same topic would SEND a message around the world that they are not going to tolerance any big business / corporations infiltrating their own country's political machine / local offices. It is perfectly fine for the corporations to exist and do business, but it is not okay for them to use their resources to control or influence our personal lives through the manipulations of laws and politics.
If we all went to the epicenter where the decisions / source of power, well some people can't just travel long distance because the time and money required to get there are not available because the corporations are too busy counting their own money for themselves, the 1%, not supporting the 99%.
Even the battle does go on beyond the locations, to the Internet. Anonymous is one of the most powerful group you do not want to f*** with.
Let the People like you and me speak for our own good. This can become big. This could be part of the 2012 prophecy. A global awakening of how our societies perceve upon its own members. Yes blame me for going into the conspiracy hokey dokey rubbish stuff.
In my own opinion, this Occupy Wall Street Protest is expect to triple its capacity within 2 weeks globally. -Josh
Statement issued from Zuccotti Park by the general assembly at Occupy Wall Street, copied from last night's transcript of Countdown on Current TV.
“As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members. That our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors. That a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people, and the Earth, and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power.
We come to you at a time when corporations â€" which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality â€" run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here as is our right to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in workplaces based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity, and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is, itself, a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut worker’s health care and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams, but look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products, endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives, or provide relief in order to protect investments that have
already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully kept people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners, even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City general assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble, occupy public space, create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard.â€
In this statement, nearly every action/reaction by corporations (and some of the statements are true, and some are flat out lies or exaggerations) is driven by Washington.
I happen to know that historically Wall St is connected to the Democrat party. How inconvenient! The proof is in the pudding, but the pudding is apparently thrown away.
Take the monopolization of farming...Congress initiated acts that provided subsidies in the 1920s and the whole thing ballooned under Roosevelt's New Deal programs. There is a direct corellation here. Now major ag producers are major beneficiaries of any politician that will increase subsidies or push policies that benefit...oh, say corn growers. George Bush signed into law in 2005 a bill that mandated a higher percentage of ethanol to be mixed in with gasoline and look where we are.
Corporations have money and they can wield sizable influence, but the politicians have the power (and we elect the politicians). I'd say truthfully the buck either stops with us, as we keep re-electing politicians who may have started out ok but have since become corrupted by all of their power, or the buck stops with our publicly elected officials. Choose one.
And regarding Mac books, sure they were bought, but plenty of parents bought their Mac books. Come on...Also, you fail to see my point. Apple is a huge Wall St player as it has had the largest market capitalization of any company at one point, has relied on Wall St for issuances of debt and equity, and has relied on the complex relationships Wall St has with RE and federal programs in order to build up their business. Steve Jobs made BILLIONS, which is more than 99.999% of anyone working on Wall St. I admired and revered the man and I am truly saddened by his loss, but I cannot help but use him as a pawn in my argument. Where is the backlash at Apple? They have been a financial market participator and have benefited from the capital markets and public policy for decades! Apple has wielded tremendous power across multiple sectors. Apple has produced billionaires while those in the stores make low hourly wages (let's not even mention what those working to make parts for Apple make overseas). Apple has outsourced parts and labor. Apple has laid off thousands of people in its history. Where's the outrage about "corporate greed" and "mass injustice?"
The auto industry. The teachers' unions. The Teamsters. Big "Green Energy." Do these people even know that the auto industry has done worse than Wall St? Do they even realize that the teachers' unions are nearly entirely to blame for our failing public schools? Do they realize the Teamsters union and others like the AFL-CIO have gone into business with the mob and hurt consumers significantly by hindering competition and increasing costs? Have they heard about the recent scandals involving "green" companies receiving huge government subsidies and misusing those funds for political purposes?
Seriously, everything traces back to politicians, and then to those of us who stupidly elect or re-elect them.
Our financial system is what has allowed this country to be an economic engine and model to the world. Our financial system is still being replicated in developing countries now so that they can have the same opportunities to grow and expand. What's not being replicated are our silly regulations. World organizations are quick to put in something that acts like the CME or CBOE or NYSE in a developing country, but it makes one wonder why they stop there and why they don't put in the same rules we get to enjoy here.
NOT GOOD -
President Obama said Thursday that the Occupy Wall Street protests show a "broad-based frustration" among Americans about how the U.S. financial system works.
Obama and the unions (why are government workers allowed to bargain with tax payer $) are trying to infiltrate this movement just like the republicans did the TEA party movement. If this is allowed to happened we're all screwed.
I do agree with those who have stated that we have to make government accountable. If we do that it will take care of a lot of the issues. A lot of the reason we're in this predicament is due to regulatory capture.
QuoteFirst they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mahatma Gandhi
JefferyS - you are so reading ZeroHedge correct?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/mike-krieger-useful-idiots#comments
Quote from: simms3 on October 06, 2011, 03:39:36 PM
I'd say truthfully the buck either stops with us, as we keep re-electing politicians who may have started out ok but have since become corrupted by all of their power, or the buck stops with our publicly elected officials. Choose one.
The "we have to blame ourselves" is such crap! Due to gerrymandered districts we have congressmen for life. Our Vote doesn't count!!! that's why 95% of incumbents get re-elected. Our vote is futile.
And here you go again:
QuoteSeriously, everything traces back to politicians, and then to those of us who stupidly elect or re-elect them.
Too bad Republicans like to victimize the victims once again. Never will they point to the actual perpetrators.
Our politicians are bought and paid for by the corporatists...........so, yes, we do agree that they are bad!
And the truth CANNOT be hidden anymore by a myriad of words pointing in a different direction in a desperate attempt to deflect from the REAL cause: the corporatists who OWN our government and who run the show.
+1
Quote from: ghalti on October 06, 2011, 01:30:13 PM
Statement issued from Zuccotti Park by the general assembly at Occupy Wall Street, copied from last night's transcript of Countdown on Current TV.
“As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members. That our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors. That a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people, and the Earth, and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power.
We come to you at a time when corporations â€" which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality â€" run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here as is our right to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in workplaces based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity, and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is, itself, a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut worker’s health care and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams, but look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products, endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives, or provide relief in order to protect investments that have
already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully kept people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners, even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City general assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble, occupy public space, create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard.â€
+ 300,000,000 for the huge number of Americans affected by the disasterous corporatists protecting policies.
The 1% is immune from the troubles that ail us. In fact they keep perpetuatung the problems and have magnified already un-acceptable inequality levels in the US.
There is only a land of opportunity towards insecurity and poverty for the rest of us (the 99percent)..........it's that giant sinkhole that tries to suck us all in:
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/315740_259296307435415_100000651442523_809940_250611821_n.jpg)
Well, boys and girls, the answer seems simple enough. Let's get Wall St.(Evil Corporations) out of Washington and Washington as far from Wall Street as possible. Or is it only a one way street?
Quote from: wsansewjs on October 06, 2011, 01:14:14 PM...............................................You don't get the whole point. The reason there are protests EVERYWHERE on the same topic would SEND a message around the world that they are not going to tolerance any big business / corporations infiltrating their own country's political machine / local offices. It is perfectly fine for the corporations to exist and do business, but it is not okay for them to use their resources to control or influence our personal lives through the manipulations of laws and politics......................................-Josh
Are you talking about the Jaguars ticket sales campagines? The rich corporation wants you to buy a ticket and come the the game. Buy shirts and other stuff to support the team. The mayor wants you to buy a ticket so the rich millionares won't move out of town. The city gives them the naming rights millions .
People tried to close their BofA accounts (this is what people SHOULD be doing):
http://s.ytimg.com/yt/swfbin/watch_as3-vflgmdzEA.swf
In case the embed doesn't work, looks like it's not, here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtI85Zc6Oik
Edit: I'm not saying BofA is trying to stop people from closing their accounts, just a mob with signs and megaphones. My reason for posting this is was to state that if people are unhappy with CEOs, they shouldn't support their companies and close their accounts.
Quote from: coredumped on October 06, 2011, 07:40:10 PM
People tried to close their BofA accounts (this is what people SHOULD be doing):
http://www.youtube.com/v/KtI85Zc6Oik?
In case the embed doesn't work, looks like it's not, here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtI85Zc6Oik
Edit: I'm not saying BofA is trying to stop people from closing their accounts, just a mob with signs and megaphones. My reason for posting this is was to state that if people are unhappy with CEOs, they shouldn't support their companies and close their accounts.
See if the video works now above.
The weather should be perfect for this event...
looking forward to this!
Quote from: coredumped on October 05, 2011, 06:43:44 PM
1500 likes, and, at the time of this writing, 460 attending:
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=197668320306311 (the count is on the left hand side)
I figure about 75% will turn out, 50% if it's raining, and 25% if dancing with the stars is on:D
The numbers updated:
1. 2,000 likes on the Occupyjax facebook page
2. 650 attending Occupyjax event tommorrow at noon at Hemming Plaza according to the Occupyjax facebook event page
How many do you think will show?
First Coast News aired another segment tonight...........so there may also be people attending who have not RSVP'd on facebook at all.
heard from some circles this is simply an event for bums,unemployed,dem Libs......MOBS .......Horrors!!!!....."hired guns".
maybe even a 'Tea Party' bounce......?
that's it what the damn hell
Hmmmm....what to wear in this Socially Constructed world??
ah Ha!!! RADICAL
Upscale Resort Casual wear.
Or maybe the Banker Suit after a creative run through the studio.Green squeegee smear.......to RED.
Speaking of T Party/guns,no guns on display nor handy.Just a permit to prove everything is different now.
That circle was "occupied" by none other Rep Eric Cantor, the square one. In a beautiful quote:
This administration’s failed policies have resulted in an assault on many of our nation’s bedrock principles. If you read the newspapers today, I, for one, am increasingly concerned about the growing mobs occupying Wall Street and the other cities across the country. And believe it or not, some in this town, have actually condoned the pitting of Americans against Americans....
H'mm wasnt talking about those tea party demonstrations???? Probably not since he was attending and speaking at them!
Eric Cantor for Veep!!!!
Heres the link which has the interview praising the Tea Party for those same things Occupy is doing today!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/eric-cantors-breathtaking-hypocrisy-on-occupy-wall-street/2011/03/04/gIQAJcZjTL_blog.html
Bump. See y'all downtown!
Crowd may have been as high as 300, many young people!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/312065_166299936791187_100002335460621_328013_442152230_n.jpg)
Quite impressive when they marched to the Landing. Great signs!!
There may be an Occupy Jax Beach forming too.............and maybe one in St Augustine.
Stay tuned.
Here are some pictures I took at the Occupy Wall Street Jax rally this afternoon. Was a real nostalgia trip for us....early 1960's and early 1970's and we kept running into friends, but missed MJ folk who were in the crowd.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2Am0d-1YjgQ/TpCxyfmklyI/AAAAAAAAA10/XqvRRkSizx8/s400/IMG_1071.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6AIpWaouqCA/TpCx065ZwSI/AAAAAAAAA2A/43gdfzyPI9M/s400/IMG_1075.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bEeXEXtJipM/TpCx16swzMI/AAAAAAAAA2E/LlKwGqjPJrM/s400/IMG_1076.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6_1DLzejc8I/TpCx28aRblI/AAAAAAAAA2I/0TvZDSzm6GM/s400/IMG_1077.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lNIZqopxmBw/TpCx3xogy0I/AAAAAAAAA2M/4zVFGxx4RjM/s400/IMG_1084.JPG)
There were some lurkers in the crowd making sure we didn't get too democratic.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EFE-CroTDyw/TpCx4oh3Q2I/AAAAAAAAA2Q/VSIGJIe58WI/s400/IMG_1086.JPG)
Loved this one:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Kem9hEQnamU/TpCx6fF5Q_I/AAAAAAAAA2Y/prW6dtFo4QA/s400/IMG_1090.JPG)
Thanks Dog walker.
Wish I knew how to post a beautiful video I found on facebook of Occupyjax.
Anyway here are some other great signs:
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/313702_10150351541622351_843587350_8235114_872443099_n.jpg)
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/294298_10150351535392351_843587350_8235030_155841345_n.jpg)
Jacksonville really stood up against corporate greed.
Never seen anything like this in Jacksonville!!!!
http://www.news4jax.com/slideshow/news/29428704/detail.html
Yeah, Get em' guys! I guess...... They are obviously mad as hell, and they're not gonna take it anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/v/9w5WTBfRxfw
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/291777_2427554498388_1537324076_2590501_146481035_n.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EFE-CroTDyw/TpCx4oh3Q2I/AAAAAAAAA2Q/VSIGJIe58WI/s400/IMG_1086.JPG)
QuoteRedman said he wasn’t sure what message Jacksonville residents were trying to communicate.
“I don’t know what they expect people to do,†Redman said. “I don’t know what they expect out of the government. Times are tough here. We’ve had to lay off people.â€
http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2011-10-08/story/occupy-jacksonville-protest-held-hemming-plaza
He can start locally by not giving local developers a hand out at the taxpayer's expense by keeping the mobility fee in tact.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 08, 2011, 10:32:22 PM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EFE-CroTDyw/TpCx4oh3Q2I/AAAAAAAAA2Q/VSIGJIe58WI/s400/IMG_1086.JPG)
QuoteRedman said he wasn’t sure what message Jacksonville residents were trying to communicate.
“I don’t know what they expect people to do,†Redman said. “I don’t know what they expect out of the government. Times are tough here. We’ve had to lay off people.â€
http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2011-10-08/story/occupy-jacksonville-protest-held-hemming-plaza
He can start locally by not giving local developers a hand out at the taxpayer's expense by keeping the mobility fee in tact.
And put in place measures to scale back/discourage sprawl, and give the people back their public transit system (that they let giant corporations take from us) so we're all not 100% reliant on cars (something that eats away at family's monthly bottom lines), and place condemned properties up for auctions to actual residents who'll occupy them instead of letting their cronies bulldoze them, and get rid of the damn parking meters in town instead of having them there solely so a couple of numb nuts can have a job that shouldn't even exist, and let food trucks into neighborhoods (especially ones that need help), and let people grow a damn food garden, farm fish, etc in neighborhoods that are falling apart so those who choose to eat healthy foods (that aren't laced with god knows what) don't have to shop at Whole Foods & get butt-raped by their prices, and some kind of consistent bike network so people who choose to not drive can still get around & not be killed by cars on a road system that is highly favorable to those cars, and...
Seriously, is this guy from planet Earth? If he doesn't understand these things, then it's people just like him who is the problem. He probably should pull his head outta his ass.
Quote from: peestandingup on October 08, 2011, 09:19:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/9w5WTBfRxfw
"For ever and ever, amen".
"Peace be with you".
Soooooooo proud of Jacksonville for being part of the National Conversation by The People, of The People, and For The People:
http://www.youtube.com/v/7ZQARgGj0F4?
Thank you, JSO for not allowing Redman to talk you into shutting down the demonstration. Remember that permits are not required.
Mr. Redman, here is some remedial reading for you. "The right of the people to peaceably assemble shall not be infringed". I know the original document is to long and complicated for you, but that one is right up at the top. We won't mind if you have to move your lips when you read it either.
With very, very few exceptions, the government should not be shutting people up, no matter what their message is.
Dear Jacksonville Sherriff’s Office,
I was a member of the Occupy Jacksonville Protest occurred on 10/8/2011. I want to say thank you for all the officers who were present at the event. All of the officers present did a great job of controlling the traffic flow on the streets, and none of them not one of them, harassed any protestor.
They were all courteous, answered any questions if asked, and did an outstanding job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVuJpned7VM
Quote from: buckethead on October 05, 2011, 06:33:38 AM
YESSS!!
I've got my "Eat The Rich" and "Capitalism Must Go" signs at the ready.
I'll be the naked person with the horribly hideous body. Bring a Sharpie, kids!
lol
Quote from: stephendare on October 06, 2011, 12:01:42 PM
where ever do you get this stuff simms?
I think most people have the same opinion of Ortega raised white bread, but I certainly hope that you don't buy into that rubbish either.
Thats actually kinda funny. lol....Ortega white bread.
Im hanging out with the founders of OccupyJacksonville, talking about the General ASsembly October 15th - 1pm - 4pm.
Good Stuff yall!
I just jumped fully on board after hearing this OWS rant:
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZFZrNSa3b8g
OK... Im in... 8)
Its getting crazier...i wonder how fair these groups will go against each other.
at least the hobos in Hemming will have cleaner company!
Hope the Occupy Jax folks have a better sense of what they're doing than the NYC people. My wife and I have been up in New York for the past week and spent some time down by Zuccotti Park. They seem to be protesting for the sake of protesting. Many of them have "fight the corporateocracy" type signs while smoking corporate-made cigarettes, wearing corporate-made sneakers, etc. Meanwhile the small businesses in the area are struggling. One of them mentioned the locals that they depend on for most of their business no longer stop in due to the squatters. Based on hearing bits and pieces of protester's conversations, a lot of them are out there just because it's something to do.
I totally understand and agree with general anger at the state of the US economy, financial system, both mainstream political parties being corrupt, etc. But if there's a point to be made in these protests, the NYC people are doing a poor job of it. Hope the Jax folks can come up with a more coherent message.
That is because the purpose is more to curb corporate interests taking priority over citizen interests. It is not to do away with corporations.
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 16, 2011, 11:44:22 PM
That is because the purpose is more to curb corporate interests taking priority over citizen interests. It is not to do away with corporations.
Yup same about capitalism. The majority of protesters aren't against capitalism.......they are just against "winner take all," or "cut throat" capitalism.........where the rewards go disproportionately to the 1%, leaving 99% of us behind.
That much touted "land of opportunity" is all but gone for the 99 percenters.
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/308260_288271707867744_196601040368145_1146152_485937437_n.jpg)
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/314627_216800658387019_100001712589756_576229_1845726399_n.jpg)
"We told them the wealth would trickle down ha, ha, ha"
QuoteThat much touted "land of opportunity" is all but gone for the 99 percenters.
I hear Antartica is looking for new inhabitants, if it is so bad here in the US of A, why not just pick up and move?
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 20, 2011, 10:20:22 AM
QuoteThat much touted "land of opportunity" is all but gone for the 99 percenters.
I hear Antartica is looking for new inhabitants, if it is so bad here in the US of A, why not just pick up and move?
Yeah, because making improvements to our habitat is just a lost cause. Excellent message to our young generation, mtraininjax!...........and may I add that it sounds awfully familiar to one of the favorite talking points of the Republican party that prefers regressiveness over being a country of PROGRESS.
OWS supporter Michael Moore just tweeted this: "Wash Post: Obama has brought in more money from banks, hedge funds & WallSt than ALL the GOP candidates COMBINED http://t.co/uumoZHWC (http://t.co/uumoZHWC)"
So can we assume that all of the OWS people are going to band together and vote Obama out of the White House? ;)
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 20, 2011, 07:54:13 AM
Yup same about capitalism. The majority of protesters aren't against capitalism.......they are just against "winner take all," or "cut throat" capitalism.........where the rewards go disproportionately to the 1%, leaving 99% of us behind.
I would add "crony" capitalism to that list as well.
Quote from: Ajax on October 20, 2011, 01:32:34 PM
OWS supporter Michael Moore just tweeted this: "Wash Post: Obama has brought in more money from banks, hedge funds & WallSt than ALL the GOP candidates COMBINED http://t.co/uumoZHWC (http://t.co/uumoZHWC)"
So can we assume that all of the OWS people are going to band together and vote Obama out of the White House? ;)
I sooooo wish we could get Hillary at this point! Those GOP candidates are a joke...........they still believe in trickle down that involves "zero taxes, and tiny government," to enable the complexities of modern day crony capitalism to continue to flourish at the expense of the 99 percenters.
BUT.......why the heck do we only have 2 parties, both of which are bought and paid for in a system of crony capitalism.
At least the Democratic Party rhetoric is pro-people.........that's why it feels extra painful (and deceptive) when they too are bought and paid for. I never liked the word "hope." My battle cry would be "expect better"
The Republican Party is straight up pro-corporatism.........they don't even try to hide it.
Occupy Jax to march at Riverside Arts Market
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Jacksonville Business Journal by Sarah Mueller, Reporter
Date: Friday, October 21, 2011, 3:12pm EDT..
Related:
Media & Marketing, Retailing & Restaurants.
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The protest movement Occupy Jax is planning a march on the Riverside Arts Market tomorrow.
The group is one of many spin-offs from the Occupy Wall Street protests in New York. The protesters voice outrage against corporate greed, bank bailouts and personal income stagnation.
Protesters plan to gather at 11 a.m. at Riverside Park tomorrow. Attendees voted last week to move its protest from Hemming Park to make themselves more visible. Protesters are scheduled to make signs, listen to lectures and take part in a general assembly meeting.
The march is expected to start at 3 p.m. and go from the First Guaranty Bank .. across from the market through the market. The organization's Facebook page said protesters should disperse at the arts market and not disturb the event.
Read about last week's Occupy Jax gathering.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2011/10/21/occuopy-jax-to-march-at-riverside-arts.html
Faye,
I heard that the gathering was going to be at Memorial Park. Did I hear wrong?
That's nice...a great protest march at an art market/non-political gathering. They're really showing well!
They're showing well up here, too. They tried to break into a hospital, borderline turning violent (300-400 of them). They are now inciting riots against the city because the city is going to shut down a homeless shelter and allow the building owner to renovate his own property into something beneficial to the community. Did I mention this homeless shelter refuses to follow code, does not screen residents, does not do job placement, and allows blatant drug and alcohol abuse, even going so far as to promote it with programs at the across the street extended stay motel and nearby convenience stores? No other homeless shelter has any problems, and they are beneficial and humane to the homeless and to the surrounding areas, yet because EVERYONE has a problem with Peachtree Pine (INFAMOUSLY bad shelter), the anarchist Occupy____ group is going to riot and encourage riots.
These people are making fools of themselves, and now it has been proven they are nothing more than ultra lib anarchists. They really don't represent the 99%, but rather the most extreme 5%.
It was kind of cool at first, but now anyone with any self worth would not be caught dead associating with this crowd. Even the liberal publications/dailies/papers up here and around the country are distancing themselves to a degree from Occupy_____. Peaceful is morphing into aggressive, which we'll have to see if that will then morph into violence like we hear about in other parts of the world, including Europe.
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 21, 2011, 04:58:38 PM
Faye,
I heard that the gathering was going to be at Memorial Park. Did I hear wrong?
More details, please!
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 20, 2011, 10:20:22 AM
QuoteThat much touted "land of opportunity" is all but gone for the 99 percenters.
I hear Antartica is looking for new inhabitants, if it is so bad here in the US of A, why not just pick up and move?
I couldn't resist.......mtraininjax prefers to protect the 1% over the needs of the 99%..........as if the 1% needs any protection since they can just BUY their protection:
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/310846_10150327462042286_712982285_8234824_1167425354_n.jpg)
Quote from: bobsim on October 21, 2011, 07:44:41 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 21, 2011, 04:58:38 PM
Faye,
I heard that the gathering was going to be at Memorial Park. Did I hear wrong?
More details, please!
http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=296434583702409
Occupy Jacksonville's Third Meeting Amy Hilton invited you · Share · Public Event.
Time
Saturday, October 22 · 11:00am - 5:00pm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location
Riverside Park
753 Park Street --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Created By
Occupy Jacksonville
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More Info
11:00-12:00pm Gather, Make Signs
12:00-1:00pm Rally (Everyone has the opportunity to join the Stack and speak for two minutes)
1:00-2:00pm Teach-in (Experts will lecture on key areas related to the movement)
2:00-3:00pm General Assembly (Business Meeting/Work Group Presentation of Motions)
3:00pm March to First Guaranty Bank across from the Riverside Arts Market and then disperse and show patronage to all the small local businesses (Remember - we must NOT disturb the Arts Market, but instead encourage it. They are the 99%!).
Some Working Groups may choose to meet up back in the park at 4pm.
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/297201_228013897257755_100001474386120_617963_720454970_n.jpg)
http://www.mediaite.com/online/chris-hedges-on-occupy-wall-street-this-one-could-take-them-all-down/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/chris-hedges-on-occupy-wall-street-this-one-could-take-them-all-down/)
Quote from: bobsim on October 22, 2011, 09:19:13 AM
http://www.mediaite.com/online/chris-hedges-on-occupy-wall-street-this-one-could-take-them-all-down/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/chris-hedges-on-occupy-wall-street-this-one-could-take-them-all-down/)
Thank you for posting this bobsim!
Wow.........that explains how the cops in Jax are so sympathizing.
The power structure of the ruling elite will come down little by little in such movements........
He also mocks the "I feel your pain" lingo that the power structure has employed to pacify the masses.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Tj8UlxhfJLw?
Chris Hedges is a writer and former war correspondent who has a vast amount of real-life experience covering social change and revolution in areas of strife and conflict around the world. The former NY Times contributor, was interviewed during last weekend’s Occupy Wall Street demonstration at Times Square, and
provided a fascinating and emotional commentary on the populist movement calling for wealth equality and an end to the seeming plutocracy alleged by protesters.
From each according to his ability, to each according to their need!
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 22, 2011, 12:41:27 PM
From each according to his ability, to each according to their need!
Hi Ock........thanks for weighing in.
I assume you agree with privatize the profits and socialize the losses..............after all that is according to
corporate ability..........and the
public's needs are irrelevant anyway:
(http://images.floridaindependent.com/2011/10/Occupy-Jacksonville-8.jpg)
I have been hoping for Occupy Jax to actually occupy something. Have you guys picked out a park to camp in yet?
Here's a few I took today:
(http://i.imgur.com/wkG0N.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CiIiI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LseDq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NJpAa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CJFlb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PHynq.jpg)
Yay, I'm in picture 4 and 5!!
Quote from: simms3 on October 21, 2011, 06:57:36 PM
That's nice...a great protest march at an art market/non-political gathering. They're really showing well!
They're showing well up here, too. They tried to break into a hospital, borderline turning violent (300-400 of them). They are now inciting riots against the city because the city is going to shut down a homeless shelter and allow the building owner to renovate his own property into something beneficial to the community. Did I mention this homeless shelter refuses to follow code, does not screen residents, does not do job placement, and allows blatant drug and alcohol abuse, even going so far as to promote it with programs at the across the street extended stay motel and nearby convenience stores? No other homeless shelter has any problems, and they are beneficial and humane to the homeless and to the surrounding areas, yet because EVERYONE has a problem with Peachtree Pine (INFAMOUSLY bad shelter), the anarchist Occupy____ group is going to riot and encourage riots.
These people are making fools of themselves, and now it has been proven they are nothing more than ultra lib anarchists. They really don't represent the 99%, but rather the most extreme 5%.
It was kind of cool at first, but now anyone with any self worth would not be caught dead associating with this crowd. Even the liberal publications/dailies/papers up here and around the country are distancing themselves to a degree from Occupy_____. Peaceful is morphing into aggressive, which we'll have to see if that will then morph into violence like we hear about in other parts of the world, including Europe.
While many question the specifics of the movement ( and rightfully so) OWS continues to grow and, at least at this time, hasnt fallen apart from the novelty of the protests. Even simms3 conceded, "its kind of cool at first" but it seems that a lot of people are becoming "associated with the cause". It seems clear that the group doesn't really care for the specifics that opponents criticize them. Even the points made of how the people are there only to protest are meaningless when we should recognize that this group is looking for a political direction. Its here that the Democrats will capitalize in the elections of 2012.
Newt Gingrich is the only republican that has reached out, conceding favor in the movement and specifically saying they should carry their argument to D.C.
I find Gingrich the most competent candidate of the republicans, both a conservative who was inside but is now outside. He could easily unite the party. But he has no campaign $$$$$!
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 22, 2011, 05:32:09 PM
I have been hoping for Occupy Jax to actually occupy something. Have you guys picked out a park to camp in yet?
Not possible.............police keep protesters walking throughout the night!!!!
QuoteORLANDO, Fla | Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:07pm EDT
ORLANDO, Fla (Reuters) - Police arrested 19 anti-Wall Street protesters in Orlando before dawn on Saturday on trespass charges for sitting in a city park after hours despite warnings to leave, police said.
Orlando Police Lieutenant Timothy Crews said police warned members of the Occupy Orlando group several times they would be arrested if they refused to leave the park when it closed. But protesters chose to remain in violation of the posted hours.
"They decided to make a stand on that issue," Crews said.
Crews and Shayan Elahi, a volunteer lawyer for the group, said the protesters remained calm and peaceful.
Those arrested face a first-degree misdemeanor charge punishable by up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.
Participants of Occupy Orlando, the local offshoot of the Occupy Wall Street movement that began in New York last month to protest against economic inequality, have maintained a vigil in downtown Orlando since last Saturday.
Elahi said an average of 50 protesters normally walk on the sidewalk in shifts overnight, which is permitted.
(Reporting by Barbara Liston; Editing by Colleen Jenkins and Cynthia Johnston)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/22/us-wallstreet-protests-orlando-idUSTRE79L26520111022
And in New York Public Parks consider prohibiting public access to public parks as well:
QuoteOccupy Wall Street supporters target REBNY over parks access
The real estate association took some heat on Twitter, Facebook
October 21, 2011 12:15AM
By Miranda Neubauer
Supporters of the Occupy Wall Street movement have now begun targeting the Real Estate Board of New York on social media and then in turn by phone, following news reports that REBNY seeks to submit a proposal to the city limiting the public access hours of privately owned public parks.
As has been widely reported, protesters affiliated with the Occupy Wall Street movement have for several weeks been camped out in Lower Manhattan's Zuccotti Park, which is owned by Brookfield Properties but is open to the public around the clock. Brookfield has expressed some misgivings about the presence of the protesters, and last week the commercial property owner, manager and developer called off a planned clean-up operation of the park scheduled for sanitary purposes at the last moment, even as the protesters began taking the clean-up into their own hands and vowed to resist any attempt at their removal.
In response to an opinion article in today's New York Times by Jerold Kayden, a professor of urban planning at Harvard University, on the legal gray area of such privately owned public spaces, and the news reports of REBNY's plans, a Twitter user called @OccupyMyCat this morning posted, "Announcement! It's time to Occupy REBNY, the Real Estate Board of New York!" In a related post, the Twitter feed @OccupyWallStNYC posted "Some #OccupyAdvice 2 concerned citizens: Make sure #RealEstateBoard doesnt [sic] close parks on 'reasonable' use pretext," and encouraged its followers to call REBNY's main number to "tell them not 2 pressure city 2 close parks." That post was shared on Twitter at least 64 times.
Occupy Wall Street organizers were not immediately reachable for comment.
Another Twitter user encouraged followers to post on REBNY's Facebook page. At least one comment on the association's Facebook page by Meghan Hines stated, "Your public spaces were gifts from the city. Don't forget that." It was later deleted. Although Twitter users made direct reference to @REBNY's twitter feed, it did not respond to those tweets in any way.
Steven Spinola, president of REBNY, said that the board received a handful of "polite" phone calls on the subject.
He said that REBNY's discussions about the proposal to bring the opening hours of privately owned public parks in line with those of city parks were in their early stages and "would probably take somewhere between six months and a year to actually carry out."
He noted that Central Park and other parks have a 1 a.m. closing time for security reasons.
"So we kind of believe that there should be similar hours for privately owned public spaces and that they have the same concerns about security," Spinola said, "and actually these places are in more residential neighborhoods, including Zuccotti Park, than the [middle of] Central Park is," where residents could also be more bothered by noise.
Spinola said that REBNY's discussions about a new policy were not intended as a direct response to the current protests in Lower Manhattan.
"This has nothing to do with what is taking place down at Zuccotti Park, other than the fact that it's drawn attention to the fact that privately owned public spaces are treated differently than parks [owned by the city]," he said. "This has nothing to do with the people that are down there now; that's going to be dealt with through other mechanisms."
Spinola said the issue came up in conversations he has had with people who are involved with plazas and similar spaces.
Earlier this week, it was reported that new signs forbidding camping had gone up at several public spaces owned by Brookfield and Rudin Management in Midtown.
John Zuccotti, U.S. chairman of Brookfield and former president of REBNY, and for whom the Lower Manhattan park was named, declined to comment. Rudin could not immediately be reached for comment regarding the REBNY proposal, but a spokesperson provided the following statement regarding the signage: "There was signage in some of our locations. It has been enhanced in keeping with City Planning Commission regulations and following the recent recommendations from REBNY on this issue." The Department of City Planning could not immediately be reached for comment.
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/occupy-wall-street-supporters-target-rebny-and-president-steven-spinola-over-parks-access-on-twitter-and-facebook
Hola mis Colombiana!
While I neither believe in Communism or Socialism as a blanket one-size-fits-all governing system, I'm not beyond appropriating one of their favorite slogans to promote what I believe. If we could keep the potentially violent revolutionary types from hijacking events like this, it would be wonderful to ramp up enough pressure to see US Corporations start worrying about their employees as much as their bottom line. It's bad enough that certain guardians of living wages are equally corrupt and no longer truly represent the rank and file. Corporations that make a decision to squeeze another nickles worth of profit from some widget in their manufacturer by shuttering the plant, firing the work force and moving the entire operation to BFE, out to be outed in some way and be made to face the wrath of the true Americans.
I also believe in AMERICA as a collection of states, North, South and Central, from polar Alaska to Tierra del Fuego. Had the American companies been given a carrot and stick treatment to keep them in the America's nobody would be protesting anything. Call it 'States Rights', 'isolationism', or 'protectionism', some of these concepts from our past ought to be revisited. Who among us would flinch if after learning that Utah (for example) had virtually no manufacturing left, so 50 Florida companies agreed to set up facilities and split production and distribution between the two states? We'd probably cheer with pride. The same should be true of production and distribution shared between the USA and every other American state, regardless of continent. The Native American prophecy of "The Eagle and the Condor" uniting and bringing in an era of world peace is reachable.
When our very survival was challenged in 1941, American industry rallied to out produce every player in the world wide struggle. Wal-Mart as recently as the 1980's advertised that they promoted and sold American made products, today there is hardly an American product in the store. The clerks and store level management are not making a living wage and like a bunch of lemmings we all patronize it because it's cheap. Next time we get into a worldwide rhubarb (and history says we will, in fact it's overdue) what do we have left to fight with? Might I suggest Coca-Cola and Cape Cod Potato Chips...? That'll teach them! Freaking tragic.
Oh my God Faye, maybe we have more in common then we thought?! Okay, I'm off my random soapbox.
QuoteTHE EAGLE AND THE CONDOR PROPHECY
NOTE: In the prophecy, the Eagle represents the highly technical North American World, the Condor represents the indigionus peoples of ALL of the Americas.
According to the prophecy of the eagle and condor, we are at the beginning of the "Fifth Pachacuti", a time when the condor will rise again and will once again fly together wing to wing in the same sky as the eagle and the world will come into balance. It is a time of partnership, love and healing, and a transition out of an era of conflict and turmoil into more sustainable and earth-honoring ways. It will be a time of great transition but also with some dangers. The condor will not soon forget the domination of the eagle. The eagle must also change to help restore the balance.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 22, 2011, 10:20:26 PM
Hola miss Colombiana!
While I neither believe in Communism or Socialism as a blanket one-size-fits-all governing system, I'm not beyond appropriating one of their favorite slogans to promote what I believe. If we could keep the potentially violent revolutionary types from hijacking events like this, it would be wonderful to ramp up enough pressure to see US Corporations start worrying about their employees as much as their bottom line. It's bad enough that certain guardians of living wages are equally corrupt and no longer truly represent the rank and file. Corporations that make a decision to squeeze another nickles worth of profit from some widget in their manufacturer by shuttering the plant, firing the work force and moving the entire operation to BFE, out to be outed in some way and be made to face the wrath of the true Americans.
I also believe in AMERICA as a collection of states, North, South and Central, from polar Alaska to Tierra del Fuego. Had the American companies been given a carrot and stick treatment to keep them in the America's nobody would be protesting anything. Call it 'States Rights', 'isolationism', or 'protectionism', some of these concepts from our past ought to be revisited. Who among us would flinch if after learning that Utah (for example) had virtually no manufacturing left, so 50 Florida companies agreed to set up facilities and split production and distribution between the two states? We'd probably cheer with pride. The same should be true of production and distribution shared between the USA and every other American state, regardless of continent. The Native American prophecy of "The Eagle and the Condor" uniting and bringing in an era of world peace is reachable.
Oh my God Faye, maybe we have more in common then we thought?! Okay, I'm off my random soapbox.
QuoteTHE EAGLE AND THE CONDOR PROPHECY
NOTE: In the prophecy, the Eagle represents the highly technical North American World, the Condor represents the indigionus peoples of ALL of the Americas.
According to the prophecy of the eagle and condor, we are at the beginning of the "Fifth Pachacuti", a time when the condor will rise again and will once again fly together wing to wing in the same sky as the eagle and the world will come into balance. It is a time of partnership, love and healing, and a transition out of an era of conflict and turmoil into more sustainable and earth-honoring ways. It will be a time of great transition but also with some dangers. The condor will not soon forget the domination of the eagle. The eagle must also change to help restore the balance.
OCKLAWAHA
So true, I DO think we have more in common than we thought.
Interesting second paragraph.......I also think Central and South America have been relatively neglected as we were fixated on improving things in Africa. (US's strategy may have been to keep things in disarray in Central and South America). I'm trying to learn Portuguese right now, as 300 million Brazilians in South America speak it, and I'm darn proud they have a female President...........no that's not the real reason ;)
Dating a Brazilian man, I will soon travel to Brazil.
So wish to check out Colombia again. How often do you visit?
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 22, 2011, 05:32:09 PM
I have been hoping for Occupy Jax to actually occupy something. Have you guys picked out a park to camp in yet?
I vote we occupy the Gold Club because, you know, it just sounds like 1%ers would hang out there.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 23, 2011, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 22, 2011, 05:32:09 PM
I have been hoping for Occupy Jax to actually occupy something. Have you guys picked out a park to camp in yet?
I vote we occupy the Gold Club because, you know, it just sounds like 1%ers would hang out there.
Perhaps our local protesters aren't jobless leaches looking to hook up and get high, after all?
Maybe working and paying taxes is preventing our protesters from camping out?
I haven't heard these ideas expressed on the news so I suppose it's highly unlikely. ;)
Quote from: buckethead on October 23, 2011, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 23, 2011, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 22, 2011, 05:32:09 PM
I have been hoping for Occupy Jax to actually occupy something. Have you guys picked out a park to camp in yet?
I vote we occupy the Gold Club because, you know, it just sounds like 1%ers would hang out there.
Perhaps our local protesters aren't jobless leaches looking to hook up and get high, after all?
Maybe working and paying taxes is preventing our protesters from camping out?
I haven't heard these ideas expressed on the news so I suppose it's highly unlikely. ;)
As a matter of fact there were three college professors at the Occupy Jacksonville rally yesterday.
Here is the news story with
video............see if you can spot yours truly who will be doing a teach-in next Saturday. Hint: as you watch the video, look for a sign that reflects a topic that is near and dear to my heart......ok, ok.........it has to do with how our elections are bought and paid for by the 1% :o
Hundreds March During 'Occupy Jax'
Movement Hits 1,500 U.S. Cities
POSTED: Saturday, October 22, 2011
See video:
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- More than 200 demonstrators marched from Memorial Park to the Riverside Arts Market during Occupy Jacksonville.
The was the third Saturday in a row the group has gathered, all wanting their voices heard.
"This is not a revolution. We're just like everyone else," said Bill Guerrant, a demonstrator.
Participants in Occupy Jacksonville said they are part of the 99 percent and want to see change in the United States.
"The answer is simple. We need people in government that care about the everyday person, the struggles," said Guerrant.
"People want to have jobs. People want to have living wages. They don't want handouts. They're not lazy people who want to get somebody's money," said
University of North Florida professor Sasha Milicevic.
"They want a chance to live in a country in which they can prosper," she added.
Related: 19 Occupy Orlando Protesters Arrested
Protesters said they want to see a better education and health care system, and less corporate greed. They said they have no plans of going anywhere anytime soon.
"If you observe what is happening here, you can actually see democracy in action. You can see that being expressed all over the cities, in more than 1,500 towns so far. I think it's an amazing movement and hopefully they succeed," said Milicevic.
Previous Stories:
•October 15, 2011: 'Occupy Jax' Protesters March Again
•October 8, 2011: Photo Story: Occupy Jacksonville Rally
•October 5, 2011: Occupy Jacksonville Plans Saturday Protest
http://www.news4jax.com/news/29560934/detail.html
Faye, Libia and I are pretty back and forth from Colombia, in fact we were headed down there this month, then changed plans and will go after the Christmas Holidays. I know you were pretty young in Colombia so I'm not sure that you recall that NOTHING happens from December 1 through the first few days of January.
Growing up in Ortega, my father had a handful of business partners in a cattle and grain corporation. This led to joint ownership in well over 1,000 hectares of land (I don't remember the actual number) in Goias State in Brasil.
I remember going there with him to the Rio Tocantins off highway 153, I believe we were in Palmas. Today one of the primary projects of the massive expansion of the Brasilian Railroads runs right through there between Belem and south Brasil.
(http://www.brazilintl.com/states/tocantins/cities_to/palmas/images_palmas/city-palmas.jpg)
Palmas sure didn't look like this when I was last there.
Here's a link to the railroad project, keep in mind this is only the tip of the iceberg in Brasil, Chili, Colombia and Argentina, all of which are in a red hot expansion mode with soaring economies.
http://www.vale.com/en-us/o-que-fazemos/logistica/ferrovias/ferrovia-norte-sul/pages/default.aspx
It just amazes me that the USA totally gets the 'From each according to their ability,' part but completely misses the 'To each according to their need,' portion. I don't believe as the Communist do, that all of this is the responsibility of the government, rather the government should make it very comfortable for private corporations that live up to that standard, and very hard for those that don't.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 23, 2011, 11:02:56 AM
It just amazes me that the USA totally gets the 'From each according to their ability,' part but completely misses the 'To each according to their need,' portion. I don't believe as the Communist do, that all of this is the responsibility of the government, rather the government should make it very comfortable for private corporations that live up to that standard, and very hard for those that don't.
OCKLAWAHA
So beautifully said Ock!
My Marketing professor at the University of Amsterdam owned one of the largest department store chains in Brazil (Ultralar) in the 70s and 80s, and offered me a job in his inner circle "thinktank," but stuborn as I was, I had already set my mind to moving to California.
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 23, 2011, 11:19:43 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 23, 2011, 11:02:56 AM
It just amazes me that the USA totally gets the 'From each according to their ability,' part but completely misses the 'To each according to their need,' portion. I don't believe as the Communist do, that all of this is the responsibility of the government, rather the government should make it very comfortable for private corporations that live up to that standard, and very hard for those that don't.
OCKLAWAHA
So beautifully said Ock!
My Marketing professor at the University of Amsterdam owned one of the largest department store chains in Brazil (Ultralar) in the 70s and 80s, and offered me a job in his inner circle "thinktank," but stuborn as I was, I had already set my mind to moving to California.
Don't want to get the forum off-track (I like this thread), but I never put 2+2 together about you going to U of A. Are you Dutch, or an American who happened to go to school there? I almost went to U of A. Been to Amsterdam 5-6 times in the past 5 years. Great city. Love it.
Quote from: ben says on October 23, 2011, 01:38:34 PM
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 23, 2011, 11:19:43 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 23, 2011, 11:02:56 AM
It just amazes me that the USA totally gets the 'From each according to their ability,' part but completely misses the 'To each according to their need,' portion. I don't believe as the Communist do, that all of this is the responsibility of the government, rather the government should make it very comfortable for private corporations that live up to that standard, and very hard for those that don't.
OCKLAWAHA
So beautifully said Ock!
My Marketing professor at the University of Amsterdam owned one of the largest department store chains in Brazil (Ultralar) in the 70s and 80s, and offered me a job in his inner circle "thinktank," but stuborn as I was, I had already set my mind to moving to California.
Don't want to get the forum off-track (I like this thread), but I never put 2+2 together about you going to U of A. Are you Dutch, or an American who happened to go to school there? I almost went to U of A. Been to Amsterdam 5-6 times in the past 5 years. Great city. Love it.
I'm Dutch and became American........my parents and four sisters still live in the Netherlands.
We used have professors from the Ann Arbor University of Muchigan come over to the University of Amsterdam to teach urban planning and economic geography. I actually found out recently that all iniversities and colleges in the Netherlands teach in english exclusively. They no longer teach in Dutch.
The world is getting very small indeed. I still LOVE Amsterdam. I was there just 2 months ago.
Too bad you never did attend U of A........you would have really liked it.........but at least you do get to visit Amsterdam!!
All university instruction in English! No wonder everybody in the Netherlands speaks English.
I once asked my distributor in France, who was Dutch, why he spoke so many languages. He was fluent in Dutch, Flemish, German, English, French, Spanish and Italian and could get along in Russian, Urdu and Portuguese.
His response? "We have to do business and who the hell is going to learn Dutch!" He also said that once you knew three or four languages, learning more was easy.
Easy for him to say!
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 23, 2011, 05:58:24 PM
All university instruction in English! No wonder everybody in the Netherlands speaks English.
I once asked my distributor in France, who was Dutch, why he spoke so many languages. He was fluent in Dutch, Flemish, German, English, French, Spanish and Italian and could get along in Russian, Urdu and Portuguese.
His response? "We have to do business and who the hell is going to learn Dutch!" He also said that once you knew three or four languages, learning more was easy.
Easy for him to say!
In several language, no doubt.
In the Netherlands in elementary school it is required to learn english. Then in high school one is required to learn french and german as well.
Nothing makes you get along with your neighbors better than to speak their language ;)
And the military and police is starting to speak our language too!
Mon Oct 24, 2011 at 06:12 PM PDT.
Occupy Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy, Police, to provide OWS Convoy Escort
Apparently spurred by the shoutdown delivered by Marine Veteran Sgt Shamar Thomas to NYPD officers in Times Square (with over 2 million views on Youtube!), more military Occupy groups have been started. The Veracity of the these organizations may be questionable at this moment, but what can't be questioned is the growth of the Occupy Movement, and its ability to attract Military Veterans, Active duty as well as retired and current Police Officers.
Last night I reported on the organizing of OccupyMarines and Occupy_Police, with websites and twitter information. 24 hours later its clear that motivated by the Marine effort an Occupy Army facebook page was created, throwing a friendly jab at the OccupyMarines:
.
Time for us to open our eyes. Time for us to get in this fight, we can't let our Marine brothers get all the glory. Our Marine brothers have started this so let's back them up!
The Occupy Navy Facebook page says:
Occupy Navy is here to support the OccupyMarines effort....
Ironically that mirrors the Navy's traditional role of transporting the Marines. Occupy Air Force jumps onboard:
We are just getting going in our support of Occupy Marines... Please share this page, Occupy Navy, Occupy Army, and of course, Occupy Marines if you haven't. We aren't going to start our own press, we are just trying to help unify the Armed Forces for a push... and the Marines, have taken the lead. We will support them!
Dispensing with the cheerleading here is a listing of facebook pages, twitter accounts and websites.
Marines:
Twitter
Facebook
Website
Navy
Twitter
Facebook
No Website
Air Force
Twitter
Facebook
No Website
Army
Twitter
Facebook
Facebook Occupy Army Supports OWS
Website
Police
Twitter
Facebook
Website
In the comments triumph110 dropped a link to Occupy Coast Guard, why am I not surprised, so I checked google for a twitter account and yes, you guessed it.
Occupy Coast Guard on Twitter
Occupy Coast Guard on facebook
And last not last Veterans:
In Dallas Twitter
In San Diego Occupy Veterans
Occupy, Military and Veterans
Veterans for Occupy Wall Street
Rubberduck, this is Occupy Marines, we got the front door.
10-4 Marines, I'd appreciate if can hold that front door open for us.
10-4 Rubberduck
10-44 Rubberduck.
Go ahead Occupy Air Force
Coast is clear up top.
!0-4 Air Force.
Occupy Navy, whats your 10-20?
Got your back Rubberduck.
10-4 Navy.
Occupy Army good to see you.
10-4 Rubberduck, we got ourselves a Convoy.
'Cause we got a little 'ole convoy, Rockin' through the night
Yeah, we got a great big convoy, Ain't she a beautiful sight
C'mon and join our Occupy, Ain't nothin' gonna get in our way
We gonna roll this truckin' convoy, 'Cross the USA
Convoy by CW McCall, with a slight change.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/24/1029667/-Occupy-Army,-Marines,-Air-Force,-Navy,-Police,-to-provide-OWS-Convoy-Escort?via=siderec
QuoteThe council also delayed another decision, postponing until next month a vote on a $1.25 million incentive package for JP Morgan Chase & Co. to add 250 jobs at two Southside offices.
QuoteThe delay on the Chase incentives was requested by Brown’s office but did not stop a public hearing where people who saw the deal as corporate welfare asked the council to vote no when the bill is taken up next month.
“I think ... they didn’t want our voices there,†said Teresa Rorstrom, one of about 20 people who spoke against the legislation (2011-662). Backers of Occupy Jacksonville and the Libertarian Party had both urged people to oppose the bill.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-10-25/story/jacksonville-city-council-does-u-turn-monroe-issue?cid=hp-justin
"Former Goldman Sachs director Rajat Gupta will surrender to the FBI on Wednesday to face criminal charges, a person familiar with the investigation said. Gupta was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in hedge fund founder Raj Rajaratnam's trial earlier this year. He has denied wrongdoing. Rajaratnam was sentenced to 11-years in prison this month. Gupta's attorney, Gary Naftalis, did not immediately respond to a call seeking comment."
I love it. Occasionally we see a bit of justice for these thieves on Wall Street. Perhaps more and more will serve some good jail time, at least 15 years each. The days of giving light prison terms to these white collar beasts because they were not considered to be a "threat to society" is gone. Any fool now can see that these greedy beasts can be considered to be threats to society. Look at what their accumulated actions has caused. Onward. Prosecute more of the bastards. What was the movie..... Hang Em High with Eastwood? Well.....Hang Em All.
Thank you ronchamblin. White collar (corporate) crime hurts far more people!
Here is a list of grievances against corporations that have cost us all dearly in the past few decades:
QuoteDeclaration of the Occupation of New York City
This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on September 29, 2011
Translations: French, Slovak, Spanish, German, Italian
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
■They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
■They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
■They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
■They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
■They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
■They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
■They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
■They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
■They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
■They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
■They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
■They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
■They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
■They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
■They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
■They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
■They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
■They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
■They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
■They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
■They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
■They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
■They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive.
http://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/
Quote from: thelakelander on October 25, 2011, 10:02:06 PM
QuoteThe council also delayed another decision, postponing until next month a vote on a $1.25 million incentive package for JP Morgan Chase & Co. to add 250 jobs at two Southside offices.
QuoteThe delay on the Chase incentives was requested by Brown’s office but did not stop a public hearing where people who saw the deal as corporate welfare asked the council to vote no when the bill is taken up next month.
“I think ... they didn’t want our voices there,†said Teresa Rorstrom, one of about 20 people who spoke against the legislation (2011-662). Backers of Occupy Jacksonville and the Libertarian Party had both urged people to oppose the bill.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-10-25/story/jacksonville-city-council-does-u-turn-monroe-issue?cid=hp-justin
Looks like it must be a fringe movement after all! :D