I am fustrated beyond belief with these idiots named Del rio and Dirk. Coaching and play calling is the issue. You call passing plays while there is a damn Mosoon outside and nobody can see a thing, then when it clears up you run the ball? Not to mention we kept throwing the ball to mike thomas. dont you think the other team is going to catch on? And why draft cecil shorts as a WR and not throw the ball to him! Im convinced......its not the players, is the staff 100%! Yes we need a #1 WR, but the coaching staff have no idea what they are doing. I am so tempted to sell my ticket for Sunday. I am just depressed at this point.
On the "brighter side", Sunshine did great yesterday. That pass through the rain to Thomas kind of gave me chills. Thats the kind of big plays we need. And Mojo is on track. Sunshine keep dropping the ball, but its being said that the offense was not snapping the ball when he told them too. Gabbert is QUICK, and our offensive is slow. They are used to Garrad. Gabbert gets the ball out fast.
I think the dropped snaps were mostly due to the weather conditions. I like what I saw from Gabbert. Only thing is I was surprised Lewis wasn't involved more.
Gabbert will be alright... more growing pains to come but he looks good.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 26, 2011, 10:08:59 AM
I think the dropped snaps were mostly due to the weather conditions. I like what I saw from Gabbert. Only thing is I was surprised Lewis wasn't involved more.
That surprised me to. They acted as if Lewis was not on the field. I dont understand our play calling one bit. I am beyond frustrated at this point. EVen if we won, it was still a terriable game for the most part. Gabbert and mojo were my only highlights.
My only thinking with Lewis is maybe they were keeping him in to block on most passing plays. I didnt notice during the game but it's hard to tell on TV sometimes.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 26, 2011, 11:49:34 AM
My only thinking with Lewis is maybe they were keeping him in to block on most passing plays. I didnt notice during the game but it's hard to tell on TV sometimes.
That's what was happening. The O-Line hasn't been great, but actually hasn't been horrible either. I completely agree on the play-calling. I usually don't have as much of a problem as most people with Dirk, but I can't understand the second half. I realize it's the kid's first start, but you have to throw it a little bit.
Defense will be giving up late TD's all year if that's how the offensive game plan is going to be. Why draft a QB only to have him hand the ball off. McClown and Tractor man can do that. I thought the defense played well but once again on the field way too much b/c the offense can't sustain drives. They HAVE got to come up with some better offensive plays. I'm not saying air it out, but maybe passing on first down for a change. MJD wont last the whole season at this rate we are going. This will be a long and frustrating season. I do like BG though has all the tools, just need some talent and better coaching around him!!!!
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on September 26, 2011, 12:53:57 PM
Defense will be giving up late TD's all year if that's how the offensive game plan is going to be. Why draft a QB only to have him hand the ball off. McClown and Tractor man can do that. I thought the defense played well but once again on the field way too much b/c the offense can't sustain drives. They HAVE got to come up with some better offensive plays. I'm not saying air it out, but maybe passing on first down for a change. MJD wont last the whole season at this rate we are going. This will be a long and frustrating season. I do like BG though has all the tools, just need some talent and better coaching around him!!!!
Yeah the Defense are killing them selfs. Its nice they have moved up to number four in the league, but they are usually burnt out by the 4th Q. The offensive game play has to change. I wonder how many times they are going to say "were a run the ball first" team before they realize how stupid they sound.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 26, 2011, 11:49:34 AM
My only thinking with Lewis is maybe they were keeping him in to block on most passing plays. I didnt notice during the game but it's hard to tell on TV sometimes.
Lewis was kept in to block on one of the plays that resulted in a sack, I noticed that (the sack wasn't Lewis' fault).
It was frustrating to watch the Panthers' winning drive that consisted entirely of 10- to 15- yard passes to TEs, knowing we have two TEs who are perfectly capable of getting open.
I also don't have as much of a problem with our playcalling most of the time but yesterday was irritating. Running a draw on 3rd and 11 from just outside Scobee range, basically giving up on a series when we held on 1st down, etc.
Gabbart looked great, all things considered.
Between the monsoon and the obvious nerves involved with a 21 year old making his first NFL start, I liked what I saw overall.
Play-calling continues to verge on terrible though (how many times can you run the ball on 3rd and 11 before defenses catch on), penalties continue to be an issue, our recievers are still dropping good passes, and JDR is running out of excuses.
The season is still very young though, and considering the playing conditions, I'm just VERY happy that nobody was seriously hurt out there Sunday.
I believe the footballs were wet or very damp for the entire 2nd half. The rain had stopped but the field was saturated. The Jags offense is definitely way below average now but the conservative play calling had more to do with wet footballs than anything else. Our defense was very good and may statistically be in the top 3 today. The weather Sunday at Everbank will be great. Can't wait!
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on September 26, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
The weather Sunday at Everbank will be great. Can't wait!
Me either! I get to come down from Virginia for this one.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on September 26, 2011, 03:22:02 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on September 26, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
The weather Sunday at Everbank will be great. Can't wait!
Me either! I get to come down from Virginia for this one.
You guys do realize were are playing the SAINTS right? Two TDs in 3 games and BGs TD was a little lucky with the Panthers playing prevent defense in what looked a Tropical Storm. I wouldnt get to excited about this one. Hopefully Brees will be pulled by the start of the 2nd qtr b/c after the SAINTS have a lead > 10 points the game is over and that would be the case even if we still had DG. I just hope I am not sitting next to any SAINTS fans, just getting tired of the opposing team fans having alot to cheer about in our stadium.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on September 26, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on September 26, 2011, 03:22:02 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on September 26, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
The weather Sunday at Everbank will be great. Can't wait!
Me either! I get to come down from Virginia for this one.
Win or lose, the Saints are a VERY high scoring team. Even when they lose, they score ATLEAST 30 points. There is no way we can keep up with them offensively.
You guys do realize were are playing the SAINTS right? Two TDs in 3 games and BGs TD was a little lucky with the Panthers playing prevent defense in what looked a Tropical Storm. I wouldnt get to excited about this one. Hopefully Brees will be pulled by the start of the 2nd qtr b/c after the SAINTS have a lead > 10 points the game is over and that would be the case even if we still had DG. I just hope I am not sitting next to any SAINTS fans, just getting tired of the opposing team fans having alot to cheer about in our stadium.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on September 26, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
I believe the footballs were wet or very damp for the entire 2nd half. The rain had stopped but the field was saturated. The Jags offense is definitely way below average now but the conservative play calling had more to do with wet footballs than anything else. Our defense was very good and may statistically be in the top 3 today. The weather Sunday at Everbank will be great. Can't wait!
Correction: Jags D is #4 at 280 yds allowed per game. Jags O is #28 at 261 yds gained per game.
Saints are #2 in total offense and #3 in passing. They are #21 in total defense: #27 against the pass and #10 against the run. I think our D can slow em down but can our O stay on the field long enough for our D to catch their breath? Maybe if Gabbert improves and gets protection.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on September 26, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
I just hope I am not sitting next to any SAINTS fans, just getting tired of the opposing team fans having alot to cheer about in our stadium.
5-3 at home each of the last two years and 1-0 so far this year. We can do better, but it's not like opposing fans are celebrating dominating us left and right.
EDIT: Just realized this was my 904th post. I feel like I should commemorate that.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on September 26, 2011, 04:26:06 PM
Saints are #2 in total offense and #3 in passing. They are #21 in total defense: #27 against the pass and #10 against the run. I think our D can slow em down but can our O stay on the field long enough for our D to catch their breath? Maybe if Gabbert improves and gets protection.
I'm encouraged that the offensive line has looked adequate and certainly we should have no trouble running the ball (I think that #10 rating is a little inflated considering who NO has played so far). If we're less predictable, hopefully we can control the ball and make things interesting. I'm trying to draw parallels to last year's Week 4 game against the Colts.
The game was just 6 or 7 minutes too long.
Did anyone notice (not unless I'm mistaken) that the NFL Network NFL Replay have been showing only three replayed games (every Tues, and Wed) this year, instead of the four games that they showed last year. For instance, far as I know this weeks Tuesdays games were NE vs. BUF, and NYJ vs. OAK; On Wednesday(today) just HOU vs. NO, and that's it, no fourth game in sight.
I was hoping for the JAX vs. CAR game to be replayed, but I knew that it would be highly unlikely (esp with this reduction of games, and not to mention more entertaining games played this week). The only reason why I wanted to see it was to watch the second half to find out what the hell went wrong; I had the leave the house early in the third quarter to attend my aunt's memorial service. From what I've heard, all that we did was try to run the ball in the 2nd half.
Kind of off subject, but Im sitting here thinking... Before the Jaguars.. Jacksonville attempted to Lure the Baltimore Colts here AND the Houston Oilers at one point. It amazes this city BEGGED for a team for so long. Now we have one, and people dont want to support it. In a way, I think we deserve the media whipping that we receive for being ungrateful. Im sure that fans thought if we got a team they would be a play-off/Championship its entire exsistance or what. If they did, thats not realtic. Every team in the NFL has had their dark years. The Colts and Steelers just to name a few. HOWEVER, I think 2009 has taught us to be grateful for what we have. Because as quite as its keep, the Jags are ALL this city has.
^^^It's funny that you mentioned fan support, because the only games that looks like they're gonna be blacked out on week four are the obligatory Pewter Pirates, the Bungles, and the soon to be LA Chargers. Although the week five CIN vs. JAX game seems like a toughie to avoid a blackout; I'm not giving up hope just yet.
We will pull it off. Week one was tough but we did it.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on September 28, 2011, 12:54:12 PM
I think we deserve the media whipping that we receive for being ungrateful. Im sure that fans thought if we got a team they would be a play-off/Championship its entire exsistance or what. If they did, thats not realtic. Every team in the NFL has had their dark years. The Colts and Steelers just to name a few.
No offense meant, but even as a season ticket holder, I
hate this line of reasoning. Mix a terrible economy, with a small market full of transplants, with poor management, and it's not nearly as a simple as the city being "ungrateful." Pulling in 60,000+ people (almost exclusively from Jacksonville rather than the surrounding areas) in a bad economy in a market of barely a million people is a MASSIVE accomplishment, and shouldn't be considered a given. Entertainment dollars are sparse these days, there are a million other options on where to spend that money. The blackout threats won't go away when the city starts being "grateful," they will go away when upper management instills faith in the population that the team is on the right track (even if they're not winning the Superbowl), and when the first generation of Jags fans start passing down that tradition to their family. It's completely unfair to compare the Jags to any other franchise in the league. It's apples and oranges are far as population and tradition are concerned. I have full faith we'll see a day where there is a waiting list for season tickets, but in the meantime, guilt trips about
football are the single best way to turn people off from the product (see two years ago).
In other news, I hear San Diego has 7200 tickets remaining to be sold for Sunday's game. I think we will manage to sell our 2700 remaining tickets.
Quote from: KenFSU on September 28, 2011, 02:11:06 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on September 28, 2011, 12:54:12 PM
I think we deserve the media whipping that we receive for being ungrateful. Im sure that fans thought if we got a team they would be a play-off/Championship its entire exsistance or what. If they did, thats not realtic. Every team in the NFL has had their dark years. The Colts and Steelers just to name a few.
No offense meant, but even as a season ticket holder, I hate this line of reasoning. Mix a terrible economy, with a small market full of transplants, with poor management, and it's not nearly as a simple as the city being "ungrateful." Pulling in 60,000+ people (almost exclusively from Jacksonville rather than the surrounding areas) in a bad economy in a market of barely a million people is a MASSIVE accomplishment, and shouldn't be considered a given. Entertainment dollars are sparse these days, there are a million other options on where to spend that money. The blackout threats won't go away when the city starts being "grateful," they will go away when upper management instills faith in the population that the team is on the right track (even if they're not winning the Superbowl), and when the first generation of Jags fans start passing down that tradition to their family. It's completely unfair to compare the Jags to any other franchise in the league. It's apples and oranges are far as population and tradition are concerned. I have full faith we'll see a day where there is a waiting list for season tickets, but in the meantime, guilt trips about football are the single best way to turn people off from the product (see two years ago).
Ken this is well said, it sounds you like understand what discretionary income is.
+1
Quote from: comncense on September 28, 2011, 02:15:49 PM
In other news, I hear San Diego has 7200 tickets remaining to be sold for Sunday's game. I think we will manage to sell our 2700 remaining tickets.
Yep, I wouldn't worry about 2700. It was common last year to have about that many left at this point. A lot of people are just late buyers. Macky Weaver just said on Facebook that it's actually below 2000 now.
Quote from: KenFSU on September 28, 2011, 02:11:06 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on September 28, 2011, 12:54:12 PM
I think we deserve the media whipping that we receive for being ungrateful. Im sure that fans thought if we got a team they would be a play-off/Championship its entire exsistance or what. If they did, thats not realtic. Every team in the NFL has had their dark years. The Colts and Steelers just to name a few.
No offense meant, but even as a season ticket holder, I hate this line of reasoning. Mix a terrible economy, with a small market full of transplants, with poor management, and it's not nearly as a simple as the city being "ungrateful." Pulling in 60,000+ people (almost exclusively from Jacksonville rather than the surrounding areas) in a bad economy in a market of barely a million people is a MASSIVE accomplishment, and shouldn't be considered a given. Entertainment dollars are sparse these days, there are a million other options on where to spend that money. The blackout threats won't go away when the city starts being "grateful," they will go away when upper management instills faith in the population that the team is on the right track (even if they're not winning the Superbowl), and when the first generation of Jags fans start passing down that tradition to their family. It's completely unfair to compare the Jags to any other franchise in the league. It's apples and oranges are far as population and tradition are concerned. I have full faith we'll see a day where there is a waiting list for season tickets, but in the meantime, guilt trips about football are the single best way to turn people off from the product (see two years ago).
Im not saying everyone. And Im not referring my MJ family or true Jag fans. (more so the band wagon fans that were all aborad when we first got the team) I for one couldnt afford to buy tickets until last year so the economy is real. I am a season ticket holder as well now. Im talking about the CITY as a whole. Jacksonville in general is a city that wants everything and appreicates nothing. Ive been here my whole life and all this city does is gripe (again IMO) Were not one of those city that can pick and choose what we support. Thats all Im saying. BUt as i mentioned, the past two years things have kicked into high gear and it has truely tested the fan base. And it shows that we really do have real fans out there.
Quote from: I-10east on September 28, 2011, 02:32:21 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on September 26, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
Can't wait!
New Orleans defense can't stop a nosebleed! :)
If our offense can get it going, this will be an exciting game. New Orleans defense is not very impressive. They have a very high scoring offensive, however barely when in some cases because their defense is not so great.
Quote from: KenFSU on September 28, 2011, 02:11:06 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on September 28, 2011, 12:54:12 PM
I think we deserve the media whipping that we receive for being ungrateful. Im sure that fans thought if we got a team they would be a play-off/Championship its entire exsistance or what. If they did, thats not realtic. Every team in the NFL has had their dark years. The Colts and Steelers just to name a few.
No offense meant, but even as a season ticket holder, I hate this line of reasoning. Mix a terrible economy, with a small market full of transplants, with poor management, and it's not nearly as a simple as the city being "ungrateful." Pulling in 60,000+ people (almost exclusively from Jacksonville rather than the surrounding areas) in a bad economy in a market of barely a million people is a MASSIVE accomplishment, and shouldn't be considered a given. Entertainment dollars are sparse these days, there are a million other options on where to spend that money. The blackout threats won't go away when the city starts being "grateful," they will go away when upper management instills faith in the population that the team is on the right track (even if they're not winning the Superbowl), and when the first generation of Jags fans start passing down that tradition to their family. It's completely unfair to compare the Jags to any other franchise in the league. It's apples and oranges are far as population and tradition are concerned. I have full faith we'll see a day where there is a waiting list for season tickets, but in the meantime, guilt trips about football are the single best way to turn people off from the product (see two years ago).
There's a middle ground here.
Ken is absolutely right about the accomplishment that's happening here, given the lack of secondary markets, the poor economy, and the fact that the Jaguars haven't been a consistent winner.
And very few markets have REALLY supported their teams in dark times. The Steelers are an exception - check their records from 1984-91, for instance. The Broncos are another, and the Bears, and the other big, tradition-rich markets where it is simply too hard to get tickets to willfully give them up even if the team is bad for a number of years (Dallas, Giants/Jets).
But the Colts couldn't even sell out a 56,000 seat tin can consistently until a few years after Peyton arrived. The Patriots were down to 17,000 season ticket holders in the early 90s. Yes, you read that correctly. The Bengals and Cardinals and Bucs drew less than 40,000 a game for years, and after the Bucs got to a stage of regular sellouts while the team was winning, that obviously ended a couple of years ago.
I would buy Jag tickets even if they were 0-16, and a sense of civic obligation to Jacksonville is part of that, but I do understand fans' not wanting to use their discretionary income on them if the Jags have a long stretch of (real or perceived) losing or hopelessness. That doesn't mean Jacksonville deserves to be picked on, because this happens in all markets except for the ones where season tickets are worth more than platinum. It is sometimes more noticeable in Jacksonville because we have a smaller margin for error being a smaller market. (And the media DOES go out of its way to pick on and lie about Jacksonville's fan support. We're an easy target because it's a market not as many people know well, they're lazy, they like to pick in the South, and a lot of them are still bitter that they didn't have the nightlife options they wanted for the 2005 Super Bowl, or that they looked stupid in their expansion predictions in 1993. Look at how hardly anyone said a peep about the Cardinals' or Raiders' years upon years of blackouts.)
I understand SOME of the criticism because 1) Jacksonville expressly campaigned for a team on the grounds that it would outperform market-size "expectations" and sell 65,000-70,000 seats per game even in the dark times; 2) though the metro area has grown at a healthy rate, the NFL clearly was under the impression that it would grow even faster. Also, and more to DuvalDude's point, 3) in 2009 in particular, a lot of Jacksonville area "fans" made fools of themselves with their "I only watch teams that win games" public rhetoric (which I think was ridiculous and more excuse-making than the result of a discriminating eye toward how the team was performing) and the ridiculous Jaguars-Gators culture war largely fanned by acolytes of Tebow and the local press (and to some extent, I would argue, the Tebow family itself). The "Just draft him!" shirts, TimTimXL radio rhetoric, et al. was embarrassing when I was taking first-timers to Jacksonville and more so, when the national press got hold of it. People were clinging to these ridiculous ideas about the Jaguars, e.g., ignoring what the team does in the community and its many good character people (on and off the field) and calling them the "Thuguars," etc.
It really made the city look amateurish and like a minor-league town. It was even sillier that the support was for a college that isn't even in Jacksonville. It makes me bristle when people say things like "The Gators are the true pride of Jacksonville" and more recently "this is Sharks town; who needs the Jaguars?" I certainly can understand someone's hearing that and thinking that the Jaguars' NFL future looks weak in Jacksonville, though I do not think that is the case.
I think the media and certain Gator boosters fanned a situation where it became trendy to trash the Jaguars and liking them became uncool to some degree. The change in the atmosphere since Tebow worship (partly) got out of the way and Team Teal came into action is obvious. The overt civic and business community support is much more obvious. The Times-Union's tone toward the team has changed. The anti-Jaguar rhetoric seems to have subsided even as people get angry at the performance on field thus far this year - I mean the Thuguar, "I'll never buy tickets again, I'll support the Gators instead" stuff. I think we are really turning things around both in on-field product (the offensive output thus far notwithstanding - this roster HAS improved) and community support of the team. It's also clear that the younger generation is stepping up and buying tickets and showing steadier support of the Jaguars than did the initial wave of fans who lost interest when the novelty and division titles wore off.
My only concerns for the Jaguars' future are 1) the succession plan and 2) that we do not end up like San Diego, where people buy up just enough tickets to get the game on TV (most of the time) and a bunch of high-dollar seats and boxes are forever unsold.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on September 28, 2011, 02:46:24 PM
...It really made the city look amateurish and like a minor-league town. It was even sillier that the support was for a college that isn't even in Jacksonville. It makes me bristle when people say things like "The Gators are the true pride of Jacksonville" and more recently "this is Sharks town; who needs the Jaguars?" I certainly can understand someone's hearing that and thinking that the Jaguars' NFL future looks weak in Jacksonville, though I do not think that is the case.
I think the media and certain Gator boosters fanned a situation where it became trendy to trash the Jaguars and liking them became uncool to some degree. The change in the atmosphere since Tebow worship (partly) got out of the way and Team Teal came into action is obvious. The overt civic and business community support is much more obvious. The Times-Union's tone toward the team has changed. The anti-Jaguar rhetoric seems to have subsided even as people get angry at the performance on field thus far this year - I mean the Thuguar, "I'll never buy tickets again, I'll support the Gators instead" stuff. I think we are really turning things around both in on-field product (the offensive output thus far notwithstanding - this roster HAS improved) and community support of the team. It's also clear that the younger generation is stepping up and buying tickets and showing steadier support of the Jaguars than did the initial wave of fans who lost interest when the novelty and division titles wore off.
Can I chime in?
I'm not a football fan - not by a long shot - but my dad is, and his wife is. They're both in their 50s and have lived here most of their lives (my dad was born and raised here, as was his dad). The Gator football tradition is long-lived and very strong (so is the FSU tradition, as far as his wife and his brother are concerned). They watch the Jaguars but they haven't had season tickets in years - can't afford it. If they could, I'm still not sure they'd go. They just don't have an attachment to the team.
I think it'll be a long time before the "generational" aspect of supporting a team will start to result in ticket sales. Jax isn't a place that readily accepts anything new. There's that, and there's the fact that honestly, not everyone is a football fan. Those people aren't going to go even if you GIVE them tickets. A lot of us get sick of hearing the "civic pride" thing when it comes to the Jaguars. It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with being more than a casual football fan, and having the income to spend on tickets, and the desire to make the trek downtown and (in the minds of many) pay for parking, and not have to worry about getting someone to watch the kids... Couple that with the fact that even a non-fan like myself knows that the Jags don't have a winning reputation...
They're fighting an uphill battle.
In my opinion their is no civic obligation for one to purchase tickets to a football game. If one chooses to believe that is their civic duty to purchase tickets to see the Jaguars, that's great. If not that does not mean you are less of a citizen.
Entertainment Dollars = Discretionary Income.
I respect the two posters Wacca and Ken, because they are one of the few season ticket holders, who I have heard from who do not try to make you feel guilty for not purchasing season tickets. All they are trying to do is provide logical examples of why people should buy tickets, and why some folks are not.
If Wacca and Ken could be in sales for the jags, the stadium could be sold out in my opinion.
It is hard to criticize your consumer in business, and most importantly, when what you have to offer is not a vital service, it is tougher to fight for their dollars. These two guys seem to get that.
That's why I can't stand the Gators; I didn't started off hating them, but ever since we've gotten the Jags, most of the anti-Jags crap around this city come from Gator fans! I don't want to turn this info a Jags vs. Gator thing because I know that Gator fans are sensitive, but I can say Roll Tide! College ball is like a refreshment, compared to the main course(NFL). I'll never understand for the life of me why someone (esp non-alumni) would prefer college football over the pros, but to each it's own. NCAA football, the only sports organization far as I know WITHOUT a playoff. Whatta joke.
God bless you Wacca for being diehard enough to stick through an 0-16 record; I'm right there with ya!
I agree that no one should feel obligated to buy tickets but you can't deny the negative impact on the city if the Jaguars leave town. Especially the impact on Downtown Jacksonville. I think there's a difference between Civic Pride and Civic Obligation. It does have a measure of Civic Pride I think. Jags leave and that's one more reason for young people to say there's nothing to do in Jacksonville. We all know we hear people say that ALL the time. It's always nice to have options even if we may not partake in all of them.
Quote from: comncense on September 28, 2011, 03:29:03 PM
I agree that no one should feel obligated to buy tickets but you can't deny the negative impact on the city if the Jaguars leave town. Especially the impact on Downtown Jacksonville. I think there's a difference between Civic Pride and Civic Obligation. It does have a measure of Civic Pride I think. Jags leave and that's one more reason for young people to say there's nothing to do in Jacksonville. We all know we hear people say that ALL the time. It's always nice to have options even if we may not partake in all of them.
+1 Civic Pride and Civic Obligation are totally different.
Quote from: I-10east on September 28, 2011, 03:25:17 PM
That's why I can't stand the Gators; I didn't started off hating them, but ever since we've gotten the Jags, most of the anti-Jags crap around this city come from Gator fans! I don't want to turn this info a Jags vs. Gator thing because I know that Gator fans are sensitive, but I can say Roll Tide! College ball is like a refreshment, compared to the main course(NFL). I'll never understand for the life of me why someone (esp non-alumni) would prefer college football over the pros, but to each it's own. NCAA football, the only sports organization far as I know WITHOUT a playoff. Whatta joke.
God bless you Wacca for being diehard enough to stick through an 0-16 record; I'm right there with ya!
Go Gators.
Quote from: I-10east on September 28, 2011, 02:32:21 PM
New Orleans defense can't stop a nosebleed! :)
I'm sure there's a Jets / Raiders / Sanchez / Michael Irvin joke in here somewhere, but I'm gonna let ya'll figure it out.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 28, 2011, 03:55:16 PM
Quote from: I-10east on September 28, 2011, 02:32:21 PM
New Orleans defense can't stop a nosebleed! :)
I'm sure there's a Jets / Raiders / Sanchez / Michael Irvin joke in here somewhere, but I'm gonna let ya'll figure it out.
LMAOOOOO
Quote from: manasia on September 28, 2011, 03:23:04 PM
In my opinion their is no civic obligation for one to purchase tickets to a football game. If one chooses to believe that is their civic duty to purchase tickets to see the Jaguars, that's great. If not that does not mean you are less of a citizen.
Entertainment Dollars = Discretionary Income.
I respect the two posters Wacca and Ken, because they are one of the few season ticket holders, who I have heard from who do not try to make you feel guilty for not purchasing season tickets. All they are trying to do is provide logical examples of why people should buy tickets, and why some folks are not.
If Wacca and Ken could be in sales for the jags, the stadium could be sold out in my opinion.
It is hard to criticize your consumer in business, and most importantly, when what you have to offer is not a vital service, it is tougher to fight for their dollars. These two guys seem to get that.
Thanks for your kind words but I don't think the Jaguars are who are actually doing the criticism. I've heard many people say that people are shirking their civic duty by not buying tickets, but not actual Jaguars officials or ticket sales representatives. I feel rather compelled to defend the ticket sales staff here because they've been extraordinarily nice, far beyond the call of duty, to me; and because I think they have become quite creative in marketing and incentivizing tickets.
It's likely that the Jaguar organization got a bit lazy in ticket sales after the early years - with selling out so easily just from the immediate Jacksonville market, why would it be necessary to make any major fan outreach or secondary market outreach? But that was unsustainable, and I think they have gotten very creative and clever in adapting to that. Similarly, the Colts had to do many years of patient secondary market outreach after the newness wore off in Indianapolis (and the arrival of Peyton obviously helped). This is tougher for us to do since the nearest good-sized secondary markets already appear to be in thrall to other franchises, and underscores what Ken said about what an impressive job we do selling just in the immediate Jacksonville area. I also think the Jaguars do more fan outreach and more in the community than any other pro sports team (a good reason to root for their staying in town even if you don't buy tickets) - to a degree that often wows fans of other teams and in other markets when I describe it.
Quote from: manasia on September 28, 2011, 03:49:42 PM
Go Gators.
Don't you mean Go Gata? Just like the Bull S*it Bowl Championship Series(BSBCS) that yall have won twice not that long ago.
Quote from: Bativac on September 28, 2011, 03:19:14 PM
Can I chime in?
I'm not a football fan - not by a long shot - but my dad is, and his wife is. They're both in their 50s and have lived here most of their lives (my dad was born and raised here, as was his dad). The Gator football tradition is long-lived and very strong (so is the FSU tradition, as far as his wife and his brother are concerned). They watch the Jaguars but they haven't had season tickets in years - can't afford it. If they could, I'm still not sure they'd go. They just don't have an attachment to the team.
I think it'll be a long time before the "generational" aspect of supporting a team will start to result in ticket sales. Jax isn't a place that readily accepts anything new. There's that, and there's the fact that honestly, not everyone is a football fan. Those people aren't going to go even if you GIVE them tickets. A lot of us get sick of hearing the "civic pride" thing when it comes to the Jaguars. It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with being more than a casual football fan, and having the income to spend on tickets, and the desire to make the trek downtown and (in the minds of many) pay for parking, and not have to worry about getting someone to watch the kids... Couple that with the fact that even a non-fan like myself knows that the Jags don't have a winning reputation...
They're fighting an uphill battle.
I agree that no one ought to be bashing the non-fans or casual fans who prefer not to go to the games. They aren't in any way leeches or anti-Jacksonville as some of the more rabid ticket sales boosters might imply.
And even though I much prefer pro football to college and DO think the Jaguars are very important to the fabric of Jacksonville (and losing them would be devastating), I understand that there are people who prefer college football, feel more of an attachment to the Gators, and don't understand (or resent) the argument that one should support the Jaguars out of a sense of obligation to support the city.
I also understand that there are many people who are equally passionate as Gator/Nole and Jaguar fans. It's not impossible to be both. And that there are many people who just don't particularly care about football.
So I do not mean to tar all casual fans or Gator fans. What I am specifically referring to is a distinct subset of Gator fans (this seems to happen a lot more with Gator fans than Nole fans) who seem to be trying to deliberately undermine the Jaguars. And this is a very important distinction.
They openly wax nostalgic about how much nicer it was when there was no pro football team to divert attention from the Gators.
They stoke anti-Jaguar sentiment on radio programs.
They offer themselves up to articles in the national media in which they proudly opine that no one in his right mind would be a Jaguar fan, that the team is full of thugs, that the stadium experience is unequivocally bad (having attended pro games in a number of stadia, I would strongly disagree and not just out of teal-colored glasses loyalty; any of my guests would do the same). They proudly announce that "we're spoiled fans," that the city doesn't deserve a team, that only Tim Tebow would make the team worth watching, that "the Gators are the real pride of Jacksonville," etc.
They also distort the team's reputation, frequently spouting off that the Jaguars "never" win or misstating their history. (As you said, the Jaguars "don't have a winning reputation." But while their fortunes haven't been that fat of late, they've been respectable and a playoff contender every year from 2004-2010 with the exception of their 2008 debacle. Some will deliberately distort their record to make them sound like a perennial 4-12.)
These people have every right to be a fan of whoever they want. No one begrudges them that.
But when they deliberately try to undermine the Jaguars or make those kinds of comments to ESPN and the New York Times and Yahoo Sports, they are embarrassing the city and making it look like a minor-league place, undermining its national reputation, diluting citizens' pride in Jacksonville's status, and in some circles helping to make it into an undeserved national punchline.
I don't resent Gator fans and I don't resent people who prefer college or minor league sports. But I resent that.
^^^Well said Wacca. When I came from NY in 86' I actually liked the Gators (never a serious diehard fan of them) and I actually rooted for FL over GA because afterall I live in FL; but then comes all of the things that Wacca have mentioned concerning alotta Gator fans shortly after the Jags came to town, then I started despising the Gators. Gator fan, can you atleast admit that some of your compadres hates the Jags, and will do anything to undermine them? Can you atleast give me that much?
BTW, I don't hate Gators fans; My freaking best friend that I've known for sixteen years is a diehard Gator(also a diehard Jag, converted by me pretty recently) but that don't stop me from hating the University that is UF. LOL
Quote from: I-10east on September 28, 2011, 04:10:16 PM
Quote from: manasia on September 28, 2011, 03:49:42 PM
Go Gators.
Don't you mean Go Gata? Just like the Bull S*it Bowl Championship Series(BSBCS) that yall have won twice not that long ago.
LOL