Are Republican policies keeping them poor?
Why do these states also have the highest divorce rates, the highest abortion rates and yet they are the most religious?
Why do they care so little about the general welfare of their population?
1. Mississippi
Without health insurance: 18.7% (8th highest in the nation)
2. Arkansas
Without health insurance: 18.5% (9th highest in the nation
3. Tennessee
Without health insurance: 14.7% (20th highest in the nation)
4. West Virginia
Without health insurance: 13.9% (25th highest)
5. Louisiana
Without health insurance 18% (11th highest)
6. Montana
Without health insurance: 16.3% (16th highest)
7. South Carolina
Without health insurance: 17.6% (12th highest)
8. Kentucky
Without health insurance: 15.5% (18th highest)
9. Alabama
Without health insurance: 14.4% (21st highest)
10. North Carolina
Without health insurance: 16.7% (13th highest)
About half of all insured have junk insurance: insurance that is quite useless except they don't know it until they get sick...........they are still at risk for bankruptsy as healthcare costs are the #1 reason for all bankruptsies in the US.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/15/americas-poorest-states-_n_964058.html#s362459&title=1_Mississippi
That's the way the Republican leaders like their constituants...uneducated,,brainwashed and dying...things are working out great don't you think?
Guess what top ten states are most likely to default and go bankrupt? Go ahead , guess. LOL.
As long as the government isn't making them get gay married or abort their babies, then its all good.
Quote from: johnnyman on September 20, 2011, 02:02:54 PM
Guess what top ten states are most likely to default and go bankrupt? Go ahead , guess. LOL.
Not to let the facts get in the way of making up your mind or anything, but the majority of those are Republican too...
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/chriswufgator/2011StateDefaultRiskPricing.jpg)
So let's go down the list;
State:
Controlling Party Affiliation:
Illinois: Democrat
California: Democrat
Michigan: Republican
New Jersey: Republican
New York: Democrat
Nevada: Republican
Florida: Republican
Connecticut: Democrat
Massachusetts: Democrat
Ohio: Republican
Wisconsin: Republican
Pennsylvania: Republican
Texas: Republican
Maryland: Democrat
Virginia: Republican
Delaware: Democrat
So, you'll note, more than half of the states the market (the best indicator) judges to have the highest default risk are Republican-controlled. Which I find funny, since this is allegedly the party of fiscal conservatism.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 20, 2011, 02:25:44 PM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 20, 2011, 02:02:54 PM
Guess what top ten states are most likely to default and go bankrupt? Go ahead , guess. LOL.
Not to let the facts get in the way of making up your mind or anything, but the majority of those are Republican too...
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/chriswufgator/2011StateDefaultRiskPricing.jpg)
So let's go down the list;
State: Controlling Party Affiliation:
Illinois: Democrat
California: Democrat
Michigan: Republican
New Jersey: Republican
New York: Democrat
Nevada: Republican
Florida: Republican
Connecticut: Democrat
Massachusetts: Democrat
Ohio: Republican
Wisconsin: Republican
Pennsylvania: Republican
Texas: Republican
Maryland: Democrat
Virginia: Republican
Delaware: Democrat
So, you'll note, more than half of the states the market (the best indicator) judges to have the highest default risk are Republican-controlled. Which I find funny, since this is allegedly the party of fiscal conservatism.
They are only fiscally conservative when it comes to charity, and their own funds, not tax payers in my opinion.
All of this data is interesting.
Debt to GDP Ratio:
Worst:
Rhode Island 19.9% Debt/GDP Blue
Connecticut 12.49% Blue
Mass 20.43% Blue
Illinois 9.04% Blue
Hawaii 10.36% Blue
NJ 11.78% Blue
New Hamp 14.16% Blue
Least Worst,,lol Debt to GDP ratio
Nebraska 2.91% Red
Ga 3.4% Red
TX 2.66% Red
NC 5% Red
ND 5.5% Red
TN 1.98% Red
Az 4.81% Red
ok....but the top 5 on Chris's list are traditionally Democratic states...as are CT, MA, MD, and DE
oh, and the current Governors of WV and NC (from Faye's list) are Democrats
Quote from: johnnyman on September 20, 2011, 02:35:52 PM
Debt to GDP Ratio:
Worst:
Rhode Island 19.9% Debt/GDP Blue
Connecticut 12.49% Blue
Mass 20.43% Blue
Illinois 9.04% Blue
Hawaii 10.36% Blue
NJ 11.78% Blue
New Hamp 14.16% Blue
Least Worst,,lol Debt to GDP ratio
Nebraska 2.91% Red
Ga 3.4% Red
TX 2.66% Red
NC 5% Red
ND 5.5% Red
TN 1.98% Red
Az 4.81% Red
FWIW, that's a meaningless statistic, because even the highest figure on the list, which is Massachusetts' 20%, is still pretty normal and easily managed. As a point of comparison, the federal debt is projected to grow to 90% of GDP, which is why it is becoming a problem. The difference between the Republican and Democrat states is largely that the Republican-controlled states do not offer the same terms with regard to government employee pensions, benefits, and nor are their healthcare programs generally equivalent, nor welfare or other social programs. These programs account for a large portion of total state debt, and since Republican controlled states are less likely to offer them, naturally they have less debt. It's kind of like saying "the sky is blue" it's a "duh!" kind of comparison, and of course, has nothing to do with your original claim that the states with the highest default risk are democrat-controlled. Most of them are actually Republican, as I showed above. The figures you just posted don't address that, and are really another debate entirely. In which I would argue that money spent on healthcare and pensions is money well spent. But of course, that a completely different subject isn't it?
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
ok....but the top 5 on Chris's list are traditionally Democratic states...as are CT, MA, MD, and DE
oh, and the current Governors of WV and NC (from Faye's list) are Democrats
Tufsu, your ship sunk before it left the dock, unless you can explain why Texas has one of the highest risks of default? lol
Care to tell me when was the last time Texas was controlled by the Democrats?
And Ohio and Nevada? Care to explain those?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 20, 2011, 02:44:03 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
ok....but the top 5 on Chris's list are traditionally Democratic states...as are CT, MA, MD, and DE
oh, and the current Governors of WV and NC (from Faye's list) are Democrats
Tufsu, your ship sunk before it left the dock, unless you can explain why Texas has one of the highest risks of default? lol
Care to tell me when was the last time Texas was controlled by the Democrats?
TX has a 2.66% Debt/GDP ratio. just fyi. Most economist would argue its one of the least likely to default. At least that's what I am reading from various souces. What do I know.
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
ok....but the top 5 on Chris's list are traditionally Democratic states...as are CT, MA, MD, and DE
oh, and the current Governors of WV and NC (from Faye's list) are Democrats
Tufsu1 Controlling and Traditional are two different words IJS. What does that have to do with anything, if they are no longer in power?
That is like saying, we have had a zero murder rate for the last 30 years, but we had one murder 31 years ago. Does the one murder 31 years ago negate the entire 30 years of progress? Absolutely not.
So therefore, the old party cannot make decisions for the incumbent party, especially when they are out of power.
Quote from: johnnyman on September 20, 2011, 02:45:54 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 20, 2011, 02:44:03 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
ok....but the top 5 on Chris's list are traditionally Democratic states...as are CT, MA, MD, and DE
oh, and the current Governors of WV and NC (from Faye's list) are Democrats
Tufsu, your ship sunk before it left the dock, unless you can explain why Texas has one of the highest risks of default? lol
Care to tell me when was the last time Texas was controlled by the Democrats?
TX has a 2.66% Debt/GDP ratio. just fyi. Most economist would argue its one of the least likely to default. At least that's what I am reading from various souces. What do I know.
The economists can argue whatever they want, the chart I posted is the actual cost of insuring debt issued by those states against default. Economists spend careers looking into magic 8 balls to predict what the markets will do. In this case, the question has already been answered, since this is what the market has done. That's the actual cost of CDSs on the debt of the listed states. Historically, the market is the best predictor of actual risk. Game over.
I think my point to posting this data was : What a dumb thread thread with a dumb premise to begin with.
Quote from: johnnyman on September 20, 2011, 02:49:46 PM
I think my point to posting this data was : What a dumb thread thread with a dumb premise to begin with.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/state_summary.php?chart=Z0&year=2011&units=p&rank=D
Texas has a debt percentage of 17% that is pretty high.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 20, 2011, 02:44:03 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
ok....but the top 5 on Chris's list are traditionally Democratic states...as are CT, MA, MD, and DE
oh, and the current Governors of WV and NC (from Faye's list) are Democrats
Tufsu, your ship sunk before it left the dock, unless you can explain why Texas has one of the highest risks of default? lol
Care to tell me when was the last time Texas was controlled by the Democrats?
And Ohio and Nevada? Care to explain those?
I wasn't trying to make a point about D vs R...just noting which states have traditionally been Democratic from your list.....and also correcting Faye's statement that the Top 10 are all Republican (since 2 are currently governed by democrats).
as for your questions:
Texas - Ann Richards (D) was Governor up through 1994 (when defeated by George W Bush)
Ohio - Ted Strickland (D) was Governor from 2007 until this year
Nevada - Bob Miller (D) was Governor from 1989 to 1999
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 03:02:34 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 20, 2011, 02:44:03 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
ok....but the top 5 on Chris's list are traditionally Democratic states...as are CT, MA, MD, and DE
oh, and the current Governors of WV and NC (from Faye's list) are Democrats
Tufsu, your ship sunk before it left the dock, unless you can explain why Texas has one of the highest risks of default? lol
Care to tell me when was the last time Texas was controlled by the Democrats?
And Ohio and Nevada? Care to explain those?
I wasn't trying to make a point about D vs R...just noting which states have traditionally been Democratic from your list.....and also correcting Faye's statement that the Top 10 are all Republican (since 2 are currently governed by democrats).
While 80% is marginally less than 100%, I'd still say that at 8/10 the point definitely stands...
If Faye wants to revise the thread title to be statistically accurate, great, I'm just not sure it changes anything.
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 03:02:34 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 20, 2011, 02:44:03 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 20, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
ok....but the top 5 on Chris's list are traditionally Democratic states...as are CT, MA, MD, and DE
oh, and the current Governors of WV and NC (from Faye's list) are Democrats
Tufsu, your ship sunk before it left the dock, unless you can explain why Texas has one of the highest risks of default? lol
Care to tell me when was the last time Texas was controlled by the Democrats?
And Ohio and Nevada? Care to explain those?
I wasn't trying to make a point about D vs R...just noting which states have traditionally been Democratic from your list.....and also correcting Faye's statement that the Top 10 are all Republican (since 2 are currently governed by democrats).
as for your questions:
Texas - Ann Richards (D) was Governor up through 1994 (when defeated by George W Bush)
Ohio - Ted Strickland (D) was Governor from 2007 until this year
Nevada - Bob Miller (D) was Governor from 1989 to 1999
Ah, so we're going on 20 years, since Texas had a single Democrat governor? Thanks.
As to Ohio, you somehow failed to mention that, aside from Strickland's one term as a Democrat, the State has been exclusively Republican-controlled from January of 1991 through the present. Even longer than Texas. And you already admitted it's been 12 years since Nevada had a Democrat Governor. So that kinds of puts this one to bed, then, doesn't it?
I will agree that Texas and Nevada are red states....but Ohio is pretty much purple.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 20, 2011, 02:25:44 PM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 20, 2011, 02:02:54 PM
Guess what top ten states are most likely to default and go bankrupt? Go ahead , guess. LOL.
Not to let the facts get in the way of making up your mind or anything, but the majority of those are Republican too...
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/chriswufgator/2011StateDefaultRiskPricing.jpg)
So let's go down the list;
State: Controlling Party Affiliation:
Illinois: Democrat
California: Democrat
Michigan: Republican
New Jersey: Republican
New York: Democrat
Nevada: Republican
Florida: Republican
Connecticut: Democrat
Massachusetts: Democrat
Ohio: Republican
Wisconsin: Republican
Pennsylvania: Republican
Texas: Republican
Maryland: Democrat
Virginia: Republican
Delaware: Democrat
So, you'll note, more than half of the states the market (the best indicator) judges to have the highest default risk are Republican-controlled. Which I find funny, since this is allegedly the party of fiscal conservatism.
Please define "republican controlled".
And Faye, haven't all the states you listed been under democrat control for the prior 70 years?
Now before I get accused of toeing the line for republicans, I'm merely pointing out the fact that Democrats have long been in power and therefore share the blame.
Let me be clear... (to borrow a euphemism) The Republican Party is chock full o' stupid. Genuflecting at the alter of the Democrat Party does not absolve their lack of responsible leadership.
They are just as corrupt and stupid.
Two disparate factions seeking to win control of the booty. (No innuendo intended)
I have it on Good Authority that President Obama is the last hope for the American Republic. That he has merely been outplayed by more experienced advisers and adversaries, but that he is just keeping his enemies close.
Could he be on a mission to save buckethead (uninformed, uneducated, unwashed) from himself? I suppose. It all sounds a bit scary to me though.
Republican controlled = Republican Governors, and in most cases, Republican-controlled legislatures.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 08:45:55 AM
Republican controlled = Republican Governors, and in most cases, Republican-controlled legislatures.
Yup, plain and simple.
The buckethead and usually BT "sharing the blame" excuse is pretty lame when clearly there are instigators and enablers.
The Reps are the instigators and the Dems are the enablers. Is the blame equally shared in a situation like that?
Instead of being enablers, we'd like Dems to be more like fighters. But the ideology they stand for, ie protecting The People is more what the constitution intended.
The Reps are single-mindedly protecting profits over people, regardless of circumstances or abuses.
And the surprising result in Republican controlled states is a "poor state."
New Jersey ,,, Republican???? Oh my. I am not sure how to respond to that,, lol. Even the sicophant Koolaide sucking liberal zealots on the Democratic Underground (which I do read) claim NJ as one of their own. Wow, that put some of you on the far far extreme fringe of the fringe. Very exclusive club. lol. We will see who defaults in the not to distant future I have a feeling and we can revisit this thread.
exactly...as I noted, the Top 5 states on Chris's list have traditionally been Democratic strongholds...2010 was an odd election year.
at the same time, I noted that Faye's original list actually included 2 states that current have Democratic Governors.
what I (a pretty strong Democrat) am saying is there's little to no correlation between political party and this list!
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 10:52:57 AM
New Jersey ,,, Republican???? Oh my. I am not sure how to respond to that,, lol. Even the sicophant Koolaide sucking liberal zealots on the Democratic Underground (which I do read) claim NJ as one of their own. Wow, that put some of you on the far far extreme fringe of the fringe. Very exclusive club. lol. We will see who defaults in the not to distant future I have a feeling and we can revisit this thread.
Why don't you look up the histories of governors and controlling legislative parties in New Jersey, Wiki even has nice color-coded lists for you. New Jersey has been Republican more than it has been Democrat. There was a stretch between 2002-2006 when they had 4 Democrat governors in a row, if that's what you're referring to, but that was really due to resignations stemming from scandals, and obviously the outgoing governor gets to choose his Lieutenant Governor, soo...I'm not sure that history supports your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 21, 2011, 11:44:21 AM
exactly...as I noted, the Top 5 states on Chris's list have traditionally been Democratic strongholds...2010 was an odd election year.
at the same time, I noted that Faye's original list actually included 2 states that current have Democratic Governors.
what I (a pretty strong Democrat) am saying is there's little to no correlation between political party and this list!
Are you kidding?
As I've already noted, New Jersey is not traditionally a Democrat state, and Michigan definitely isn't;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Michigan
We already went through this. I know having your claims exploded generally doesn't prevent you from repeating them again anyway, but let's at least be somewhat realistic about it. Michigan a liberal bastion? Really? I guess if you go back to before the Civil War maybe...
And why limit it to top 5? Why not top 1, if it strengthens your argument? Forget the facts, like that there is generally a small deviation between the default risk of the various states, until you get to the list I provided you, where the deviation is extreme. Hence the list happens to contain data related to exactly what we were actually discussing, rather than some strawman, because it directly addresses which states the market indicates have the highest risk of default.
Any other strawmen anybody would like to throw out here while we're at it?
Maybe we should be discussing the 2.33333 states with the largest concentrations of endangered Blue Herons during the period from 1955-1964, and only considering the default risk of that subgroup? I mean, surely, that's more dispositive than judging the default risk by the actual market prices for CDSs, right?
Quote from: buckethead on September 21, 2011, 04:32:35 AM
haven't all the states you listed been under democrat control for the prior 70 years?
Genuflecting at the alter of the Democrat Party does not absolve their lack of responsible leadership.
It's hard to take anyone seriously when they use the FOX News-ish 'democrat' in place of the grammatically correct 'democratic'.
Quote from: finehoe on September 21, 2011, 12:11:15 PM
Quote from: buckethead on September 21, 2011, 04:32:35 AM
haven't all the states you listed been under democrat control for the prior 70 years?
Genuflecting at the alter of the Democrat Party does not absolve their lack of responsible leadership.
It's hard to take anyone seriously when they use the FOX News-ish 'democrat' in place of the grammatically correct 'democratic'.
While I certainly agree with your sentiments about Faux News, I have generally always used the grammatically incorrect version intentionally, only to distinguish between democratic processes/government and the Democratic Party. I always just preferred using one over the other to eliminate the double-meanings that can make some discussions confusing. Faux News probably does it because their viewers appear to be very easily confused, likely a whole different ball of wax. ;D
^^^Be that as it may, when you see or hear the "Democrat Party" it pretty much tells you where the speaker is coming from.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 10:52:57 AM
New Jersey ,,, Republican???? Oh my. I am not sure how to respond to that,, lol. Even the sicophant Koolaide sucking liberal zealots on the Democratic Underground (which I do read) claim NJ as one of their own. Wow, that put some of you on the far far extreme fringe of the fringe. Very exclusive club. lol. We will see who defaults in the not to distant future I have a feeling and we can revisit this thread.
Why don't you look up the histories of governors and controlling legislative parties in New Jersey, Wiki even has nice color-coded lists for you. New Jersey has been Republican more than it has been Democrat. There was a stretch between 2002-2006 when they had 4 Democrat governors in a row, if that's what you're referring to, but that was really due to resignations stemming from scandals, and obviously the outgoing governor gets to choose his Lieutenant Governor, soo...I'm not sure that history supports your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey
California had a GOP gov too. I guess u need to put California in the Red state column. Let's just be consistent then I guess.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 12:04:39 PM
Are you kidding?
As I've already noted, New Jersey is not traditionally a Democrat state, and Michigan definitely isn't;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Michigan
We already went through this. I know having your claims exploded generally doesn't prevent you from repeating them again anyway, but let's at least be somewhat realistic about it. Michigan a liberal bastion? Really? I guess if you go back to before the Civil War maybe...
ok...please show me how those states have voted in Presidential elections since say 1964 (Goldwater revolution)....and how about US Senators?
Here...I'll help you get started....here's data on the last 10 presidential elections
Both New Jersey and Michigan voted R from 1972 through 1988....and D from 1992 through 2008
http://www.270towin.com/states/New_Jersey
http://www.270towin.com/states/Michigan
So, using your logic that 20 years ago is ancient history (see comment on Texas), care to revise your statement that these two states are prinmarily Republican
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 12:36:59 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 10:52:57 AM
New Jersey ,,, Republican???? Oh my. I am not sure how to respond to that,, lol. Even the sicophant Koolaide sucking liberal zealots on the Democratic Underground (which I do read) claim NJ as one of their own. Wow, that put some of you on the far far extreme fringe of the fringe. Very exclusive club. lol. We will see who defaults in the not to distant future I have a feeling and we can revisit this thread.
Why don't you look up the histories of governors and controlling legislative parties in New Jersey, Wiki even has nice color-coded lists for you. New Jersey has been Republican more than it has been Democrat. There was a stretch between 2002-2006 when they had 4 Democrat governors in a row, if that's what you're referring to, but that was really due to resignations stemming from scandals, and obviously the outgoing governor gets to choose his Lieutenant Governor, soo...I'm not sure that history supports your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey
California had a GOP gov too. I guess u need to put California in the Red state column. Let's just be consistent then I guess.
Well there's rather a large difference between California's politics when it comes to local vs. national, when you get into it. Let's not forget the father of the modern Republican party, Ronald Reagan was formerly Governor of California. Richard Nixon was also a Californian. Actually, though most of California tends to lean liberal in national politics, the results are much more of a mixed bag for their state-level politics. The Governor and majority in the legislature often are often Republican. Exclusive Democrat(ic) control of California vanished in 1862. But rather than conjecture, we could always look at the facts; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_California
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 12:36:59 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 10:52:57 AM
New Jersey ,,, Republican???? Oh my. I am not sure how to respond to that,, lol. Even the sicophant Koolaide sucking liberal zealots on the Democratic Underground (which I do read) claim NJ as one of their own. Wow, that put some of you on the far far extreme fringe of the fringe. Very exclusive club. lol. We will see who defaults in the not to distant future I have a feeling and we can revisit this thread.
Why don't you look up the histories of governors and controlling legislative parties in New Jersey, Wiki even has nice color-coded lists for you. New Jersey has been Republican more than it has been Democrat. There was a stretch between 2002-2006 when they had 4 Democrat governors in a row, if that's what you're referring to, but that was really due to resignations stemming from scandals, and obviously the outgoing governor gets to choose his Lieutenant Governor, soo...I'm not sure that history supports your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey
California had a GOP gov too. I guess u need to put California in the Red state column. Let's just be consistent then I guess.
Well there's rather a large difference between California's politics when it comes to local vs. national, when you get into it. Let's not forget the father of the modern Republican party, Ronald Reagan was formerly Governor of California. Richard Nixon was also a Californian. Actually, though most of California tends to lean liberal in national politics, the results are much more of a mixed bag for their state-level politics. The Governor and majority in the legislature often are often Republican. But rather than conjecture, we could always look at the facts; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_California
Ok, well,, i ws never one for using Wikipedia,, but since you did.
"Politically New Jersey is considered one of the more liberal states in the nation. " Straight from Wiki "Politics of New Jersey"
Wow,, seriously dumb thread. I should get back to work. LOL.
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 21, 2011, 12:43:00 PM
Here...I'll help you get started....here's data on the last 10 presidential elections
Both New Jersey and Michigan voted R from 1972 through 1988....and D from 1992 through 2008
http://www.270towin.com/states/New_Jersey
http://www.270towin.com/states/Michigan
So, using your logic that 20 years ago is ancient history (see comment on Texas), care to revise your statement that these two states are prinmarily Republican
Well I already mentioned you'd try another strawman, so I suppose this should come as no surprise.
What the residents of the states in question do when it comes to National politics is irrelevant, and is often contradictory to what occurs with their state-level elections. Sometimes there are mind-boggling contradictions, as with California, when you compare their national and state voting patterns. But who voted for who for President is completely meaningless, as it has nothing do with state-level leadership that affects the state's default risk.
That was a rather easily combustible strawman I'm afraid.
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 12:36:59 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 10:52:57 AM
New Jersey ,,, Republican???? Oh my. I am not sure how to respond to that,, lol. Even the sicophant Koolaide sucking liberal zealots on the Democratic Underground (which I do read) claim NJ as one of their own. Wow, that put some of you on the far far extreme fringe of the fringe. Very exclusive club. lol. We will see who defaults in the not to distant future I have a feeling and we can revisit this thread.
Why don't you look up the histories of governors and controlling legislative parties in New Jersey, Wiki even has nice color-coded lists for you. New Jersey has been Republican more than it has been Democrat. There was a stretch between 2002-2006 when they had 4 Democrat governors in a row, if that's what you're referring to, but that was really due to resignations stemming from scandals, and obviously the outgoing governor gets to choose his Lieutenant Governor, soo...I'm not sure that history supports your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey
California had a GOP gov too. I guess u need to put California in the Red state column. Let's just be consistent then I guess.
Well there's rather a large difference between California's politics when it comes to local vs. national, when you get into it. Let's not forget the father of the modern Republican party, Ronald Reagan was formerly Governor of California. Richard Nixon was also a Californian. Actually, though most of California tends to lean liberal in national politics, the results are much more of a mixed bag for their state-level politics. The Governor and majority in the legislature often are often Republican. But rather than conjecture, we could always look at the facts; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_California
Ok, well,, i ws never one for using Wikipedia,, but since you did.
"Politically New Jersey is considered one of the more liberal states in the nation. " Straight from Wiki "Politics of New Jersey"
Wow,, seriously dumb thread. I should get back to work. LOL.
At the national level, it is. At the local level, not so much. Which affects a State's default risk for its state debt, again?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 01:09:37 PM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 12:36:59 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 10:52:57 AM
New Jersey ,,, Republican???? Oh my. I am not sure how to respond to that,, lol. Even the sicophant Koolaide sucking liberal zealots on the Democratic Underground (which I do read) claim NJ as one of their own. Wow, that put some of you on the far far extreme fringe of the fringe. Very exclusive club. lol. We will see who defaults in the not to distant future I have a feeling and we can revisit this thread.
Why don't you look up the histories of governors and controlling legislative parties in New Jersey, Wiki even has nice color-coded lists for you. New Jersey has been Republican more than it has been Democrat. There was a stretch between 2002-2006 when they had 4 Democrat governors in a row, if that's what you're referring to, but that was really due to resignations stemming from scandals, and obviously the outgoing governor gets to choose his Lieutenant Governor, soo...I'm not sure that history supports your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey
California had a GOP gov too. I guess u need to put California in the Red state column. Let's just be consistent then I guess.
Well there's rather a large difference between California's politics when it comes to local vs. national, when you get into it. Let's not forget the father of the modern Republican party, Ronald Reagan was formerly Governor of California. Richard Nixon was also a Californian. Actually, though most of California tends to lean liberal in national politics, the results are much more of a mixed bag for their state-level politics. The Governor and majority in the legislature often are often Republican. But rather than conjecture, we could always look at the facts; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_California
Ok, well,, i ws never one for using Wikipedia,, but since you did.
"Politically New Jersey is considered one of the more liberal states in the nation. " Straight from Wiki "Politics of New Jersey"
Wow,, seriously dumb thread. I should get back to work. LOL.
At the national level, it is. At the local level, not so much. Which affects a State's default risk for its state debt, again?
Seems pretty liberal all around to me. So State Federal govt doesnt have anything to do with the states default risk. LMAO. Ok,, I swear I won't post again. We are getting into crazy land. This is going nowhere.
Btw,, congrats on your bar lawyer thing. Good job.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 01:08:54 PM
Well I already mentioned you'd try another strawman, so I suppose this should come as no surprise.
What the residents of the states in question do when it comes to National politics is irrelevant, and is often contradictory to what occurs with their state-level elections.
fine...so how about you provide data on the Governors and state legislatures since 1964?
here again...I'll help you get started
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_General_Assembly
(under Democratic control since 1970)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Senate
(under Democratic control since 1962)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey
(Democrat from 1954-1970, alternated 1970-1994, Republican 1994-2002, Democrat 2002-2010, Republican now)
next argument please
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 01:09:37 PM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 12:36:59 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 21, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
Quote from: johnnyman on September 21, 2011, 10:52:57 AM
New Jersey ,,, Republican???? Oh my. I am not sure how to respond to that,, lol. Even the sicophant Koolaide sucking liberal zealots on the Democratic Underground (which I do read) claim NJ as one of their own. Wow, that put some of you on the far far extreme fringe of the fringe. Very exclusive club. lol. We will see who defaults in the not to distant future I have a feeling and we can revisit this thread.
Why don't you look up the histories of governors and controlling legislative parties in New Jersey, Wiki even has nice color-coded lists for you. New Jersey has been Republican more than it has been Democrat. There was a stretch between 2002-2006 when they had 4 Democrat governors in a row, if that's what you're referring to, but that was really due to resignations stemming from scandals, and obviously the outgoing governor gets to choose his Lieutenant Governor, soo...I'm not sure that history supports your assertion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_New_Jersey
California had a GOP gov too. I guess u need to put California in the Red state column. Let's just be consistent then I guess.
Well there's rather a large difference between California's politics when it comes to local vs. national, when you get into it. Let's not forget the father of the modern Republican party, Ronald Reagan was formerly Governor of California. Richard Nixon was also a Californian. Actually, though most of California tends to lean liberal in national politics, the results are much more of a mixed bag for their state-level politics. The Governor and majority in the legislature often are often Republican. But rather than conjecture, we could always look at the facts; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_California
Ok, well,, i ws never one for using Wikipedia,, but since you did.
"Politically New Jersey is considered one of the more liberal states in the nation. " Straight from Wiki "Politics of New Jersey"
Wow,, seriously dumb thread. I should get back to work. LOL.
At the national level, it is. At the local level, not so much. Which affects a State's default risk for its state debt, again?
Seems pretty liberal all around to me. So State Federal govt doesnt have anything to do with the states default risk. LMAO. Ok,, I swear I won't post again. We are getting into crazy land. This is going nowhere.
Btw,, congrats on your bar lawyer thing. Good job.
Well, what would the federal government have to do with a State's default risk on its own debt? Whatever it spends or incurs has to be done at the state level, no? I suppose certain areas like DOT and matching funds requirements can affect state debt, but for the most part a state chooses to spend the money it spends outside of the feds. There is a constitutional prohibition against the federal government imposing unfunded mandates on the states.
how about: the top ten poorest states are all suffering under a broken and artificially divisive system. will that work for everyöne?
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on September 21, 2011, 02:08:15 PM
how about: the top ten poorest states are all suffering under a broken and artificially divisive system. will that work for everyöne?
+1
Fairness will not come until true campaign finance reform is put in place...the haves have overpowered the havenots for many many generations because the wealthy are the only ones that get elected and money is the leader no matter what...fundamentals of sociatal living are piched out the window along with the baby...help us all..
Quote from: finehoe on September 21, 2011, 12:28:51 PM
^^^Be that as it may, when you see or hear the "Democrat Party" it pretty much tells you where the speaker is coming from.
And where might that be, in this case?
Quote from: FayeforCure on September 20, 2011, 12:39:52 PM
Are Republican policies keeping them poor?
Why do these states also have the highest divorce rates, the highest abortion rates and yet they are the most religious?
Why do they care so little about the general welfare of their population?
1. Mississippi
Without health insurance: 18.7% (8th highest in the nation)
2. Arkansas
Without health insurance: 18.5% (9th highest in the nation
3. Tennessee
Without health insurance: 14.7% (20th highest in the nation)
4. West Virginia
Without health insurance: 13.9% (25th highest)
5. Louisiana
Without health insurance 18% (11th highest)
6. Montana
Without health insurance: 16.3% (16th highest)
7. South Carolina
Without health insurance: 17.6% (12th highest)
8. Kentucky
Without health insurance: 15.5% (18th highest)
9. Alabama
Without health insurance: 14.4% (21st highest)
10. North Carolina
Without health insurance: 16.7% (13th highest)
About half of all insured have junk insurance: insurance that is quite useless except they don't know it until they get sick...........they are still at risk for bankruptsy as healthcare costs are the #1 reason for all bankruptsies in the US.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/15/americas-poorest-states-_n_964058.html#s362459&title=1_Mississippi
Well not to put a damper on your stats here, but some of these states are actually bluer than you think. Many of these states happen to have the highest percentages of African Americans in the country, so when it comes to health insurance and poverty, these entire states have similar demographics as many large inner cities, which not coincidentally have the same problems. That in itself is not a Republican or southern problem, but a problem of racial proportions all across this country. If MA weren't as white as it is and instead as black as MS, it would most likely be at the top of this list, too.
West Virginia is also digging itself out of one of the deepest holes any state can be in. Its entire statehood is Appalachia, mountainous in other words. All it can really do is provide coal, natural gas, etc. We all know the history of mining for coal, and natural gas in the Marcellus Shale has been unavailable until now, but in the last year or two WV has been doing just fine! I think we'll see unemployment and uninsured numbers drop dramatically there, at least for the time that they can harvest their resources.
Louisiana the state is red, but its population centers are as blue and corrupt as they get. Hint: New Orleans. Lots of AAs, too. In fact, NOLA could be where Houston is right now if the corruption hadn't driven out the big energy and oil companies (really all but one or two are left there).
Montana has Max Baucus. Enough said. It really is not red territory there.
North Carolina is actually a "purple" state now, shading completely blue on occasion. It's definitely not a red state.
Quote from: simms3 on September 24, 2011, 09:37:19 AM
Louisiana the state is red, but its population centers are as blue and corrupt as they get. Hint: New Orleans. Lots of AAs, too. In fact, NOLA could be where Houston is right now if the corruption hadn't driven out the big energy and oil companies (really all but one or two are left there).
i really don't believe corruption would drive big energy and oil out. quite the opposite, in fact.
Thanks for the two year refresher Stephen....
Interesting that more than half of those states are VERY rural; I wouldn't expect a rural state to be filthy rich. This thread definitely doesn't have a political agenda though....
Weren't most of the states rural at some point?
Seems like there may be some chicken vs egg in there somewhere.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on October 21, 2013, 09:05:59 AM
Weren't most of the states rural at some point?
Seems like there may be some chicken vs egg in there somewhere.
Back in 1976 most of those states were solid democrat states. Perhaps a comparison of where those states were back then to now is in order. Many of those states have had quite a bit of growth since the 60's and have become less rural than they were.
Taking a snapshot of where a state is right now with no point(s) of comparison doesn't tell you anything.
Its not that black & white. Kentucky, for example, is Rep for Presidential but mostly Dem for local. Even in the sticks, and def in the urban areas.
Just sayin. You don't elect an openly gay Mayor anywhere in your state (Lexington's Jim Gray) by being all back water hillbillies. :)
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on October 21, 2013, 09:05:59 AM
Weren't most of the states rural at some point?
Seems like there may be some chicken vs egg in there somewhere.
Okay so screw farming, nat'l parks, and pristine wide open vistas; It's a MUST that every state have crapload of congested bustling metropolises. Because America doesn't have enough of them, right Chris?
Quote from: stephendare on October 21, 2013, 03:59:56 PM
and yet you argue against every effort to relieve the congestions and make urban life better planned and not as hectic.
Only in your mind Stephen; You have never heard such thing from me. Just because I'm not in love with instantly shoehorning your beloved streetcar into Jax right now (esp with these current municipal shortfalls etc) doesn't make me 'anti-transit'. I've spend about twenty-five years exclusively using transit (buses, subway trains etc) before I ever drove a car. Way to switch the subject though....
^^^You said that I'm against 'relieving traffic in urban areas'.
Explain your exact quote..."Yet you argue against every effort to relieve congestions and make urban life better planned". Please state atleast one example of that?
^^^Why do you love pulling up history SO much? No one is trying to waste time, deciphering through thousands of comments. Weaseling your way outta a simple question, vintage Stephen....
Quote from: stephendare on October 21, 2013, 04:45:17 PM
um. expressly because your posting history was what you asked about.
I wanted you to give me one simple example, not pull up my entire existence on MJ. Any coincidence that you have the highest debate count on this site?
The ten states most likely to get hit by a tornado or hurricane are also red. There is a pattern here.
Quote from: stephendare on October 21, 2013, 04:54:24 PM
its literally your posting history. Im sure you can figure it out.
*Sigh*
I-10east is the avatar for Timmie Tebow. ;)