Metro Jacksonville

QuoteI can imagine Jacksonville filling the arena for 41 NBA games ... if Kenny Chesney can be booked for 41 pregame concerts.

Barring that, I just don't see it happening.

I bring this up because the mayor keeps bringing it up.

"Why not an NBA team one day? Can you imagine that?" Mayor Alvin Brown has asked repeatedly, inevitably answering his own question with an emphatic: "I can."

Maybe I don't have a good enough imagination, but I can't.

QuotePeople often point to Oklahoma City and its revitalized, vibrant downtown - part of a place that recently was named the best entrepreneurial city in America - as a reason to pursue an NBA team. And while I'm sure the NBA is part of that vibrancy, it didn't start it.

In the early 1990s, in the wake of the oil bust, Oklahoma City launched a massive, city-changing makeover. And in December 2009, voters approved a 1-cent sales tax for eight projects designed to continue this, "increase the quality of life" and "create economic growth."

The projects include improvements to the Oklahoma River, a convention center, a downtown streetcar, a "world-class destination park" and 57 miles of new walking and biking trails.

Imagine that.

I can.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/401820/mark-woods/2011-08-03/mark-woods-nba-arena-too-long-jump-shot

Word. The mayor needs to drop this pipe dream.

Woods is absolutely right, of course, but I've always interpreted Mayor Brown's vision as more that of a significantly larger Jacksonville that takes better advantage of its resources and has grown enough to support both an NBA and an NFL team, rather than something he would prioritize over other growth opportunities.

I never took him as saying in a term or two, but at some point!  ...and what is wrong with dreaming!

^It's just a silly thing for him to keep going on about. Especially when we have an NFL team to be concerned with.

LMAO at Mark Woods. This is a valid point.

The real thing is that Jacksonville wouldn't support an expansion team and they definitely wouldn't support a below average team that would be moved here. Most of Jacksonville's residents are typical bandwagon fans. If the team isn't great, they won't buy tickets. I'm sure if the Jags were in the playoffs every year, there would be no talks about blackouts. As soon as the Jags started to go to being a 8 and 8 and below team, that's when the problems occurred. I'm hesitant to even say that the economy had a huge part to do with it.

Obviously Jacksonville.

We "all know" that we won't ever support professional football. We "know" that downtown is far to dangerous to support human life. We "know" that there is no point trying to attract tourism when "everybody" will just drive to Disney anyway. We "know" that we can't develop streetcars or commuter rail until we reach that critical 10 million population mark. We "know" that nobody in this Wal-Mart town will ever shop at a Macy's or Sac's store. We also "know" that hoop snakes will bite their tails and thus forming a perfect hoop roll rapidly down hill in persuit of masses of humanity.

I recently asked 10 people at a rock concert how likely they would be to attend the ballet at least 5 times a year, but I was very disappointed in the response. It appears to me that the best course of action is more inaction, lets not do anything at all because, well, you know, its Jacksonville, so it will never work.

Spokane and Knoxville hosted a "Worlds Fair." Salt Lake City, Lake Placid and tiny Mammoth Lakes hosted the international Olympic games. Salt Lake City has the NBA and Oklahoma City is wild about their own basketball team while Charlotte sports both the NFL and the NBA...  And we're a bigger city then any of them.

The main difference and secret of success seems to be that the populace of these other cities have generally traveled beyond their own city limits at least once in their lives.  And not one of these other citizens believes they're descendants of a "town" called Cowford. Finally it appears that "Hoop Snakes" have been completely eradicated in the successful in the municipal coliseums and arenas of the competition.

Somebody needs to tell Mayor Brown to stop his progressive thinking. We all "know" that we can't compete, we're Jacksonville, and we've been snake bit.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: comncense on August 03, 2011, 10:01:56 AM
The real thing is that Jacksonville wouldn't support an expansion team and they definitely wouldn't support a below average team that would be moved here. Most of Jacksonville's residents are typical bandwagon fans. If the team isn't great, they won't buy tickets. I'm sure if the Jags were in the playoffs every year, there would be no talks about blackouts. As soon as the Jags started to go to being a 8 and 8 and below team, that's when the problems occurred. I'm hesitant to even say that the economy had a huge part to do with it.

The same thing happens in most all markets, except ones where the teams are a deeply ingrained tradition that will not experience ticket holder churn regardless of whether the team is miserable.  It was more obvious in Jacksonville because it's a smaller market with a smaller margin for error, and because the media tends to pick on Jacksonville even when other markets are doing significantly worse jobs of supporting their respective teams.  Jacksonville is not more of a bandwagon market than Washington or San Diego or Miami or many other larger metros.

It's really a moot point right now because no NBA team would move into the arena right now anyway, and not just for market size reasons.  It's not big or amenity-loaded enough for current NBA standards.  When it was built, the assumption was that by the time Jacksonville grew big enough to support another pro team, it would be time for a new arena.

Of course, I'd love for Mayor Brown to prove that prediction wrong and accelerate intelligent growth, leveraging of the city's natural advantages, etc. and bring a second pro team to the city as a result.

Hey its just his dream for the city. It may never happen, but I think its part of a bigger vision he has for Jacksonville. What I take away from the article is, if we do what Oklahoma did, we could position our self to possiable attract an NBA ONE DAY. Oklahoma is definately a city that we should take notes from. ( as far as revitilization, etc)

AS far as the Jags, yes the economy played a huge role. I know several people who felt bad because they could no longer afford their season tickets. $330.00 can make a HUGE difference in someone finances, lets be real about it. I could never afford tickets until last year. And this year I bought season tickets, and also purchased two single games tickets to give out to friends. I'll be buying two more when the regular season tickets go on sale. go Jags!!

Let's just try to keep the jaguars in jacksonville first before any NBA talks..This city would be nothing without the Jaguars!

Though I admire Brown's optimism, I do think it is a rather foolish thing to say. Anyone who follows the NBA closely knows that, if anything, the league is looking to contract, rather than expand. They also know that it is extremely difficult for a small market NBA team to be financially viable. Maybe the new CBA will change that similar to what happened to hockey, but even with a season ticket waiting list and a ton of corporate sponsors, I don't see any situation where Jacksonville could even hope to land a team in the next 25 years. Our arena is inadequate, and there are just too many other much larger cities, many with brand new facilities, dying to get their hands on a team. We'd have to take a place in line behind Vancouver, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Kansas City, Seattle, possibly Las Vegas, and if David Stern gets his way, maybe even a few European cities. I respect Brown's optimism, but to suggest that we even have a prayer at an NBA team in the next decade or two is setting himself and the city up for a letdown. One day, sure. But one day, based on current circumstances, is looking to be a long, long, long way out.

I've said this many times elsewhere, but based on simple market size comparison, there is zero chance another major sports league would locate a team here in the next 5-10 years. Jax is in the area of having its one pro team for its market size. Check the latest market rankings - there are only two markets smaller than ours with more than one team: New Orleans (market size crashed after Katrina) and Buffalo (middle of the heart of hockey country and the Bills are frequently mentioned for relocation). The next largest market with 2 pro teams is Milwaukee, and in order to get to their market size, Jax's market would have to increase by one-third it's current size. That's a huge order, no matter who's in charge of the city's growth policies.

And Oklahoma City as an NBA city is a terrible comparison - the better comparison is how many pro sports teams it can support. Put an NFL or MLB team in that market with the Thunder? Someone is going to come out on the losing end of that setup - its just basic market dynamics. OKC has their one pro franchise, Jax has their one. It's what the market will handle.

So even if you can figure out a way around the market size, there's still the idea of which pro league to target. Unless the Magic move (a basic impossibility with the new arena they just built), there's no way the NBA further dilutes the Florida market to put a team in Jacksonville (north Florida/south Georgia isn't a strong enough market to hold it's own between the Hawks and Magic, let alone the evil that shall not be named in the south part of the state). The better possibility (and I use "better" loosely) is to target the Rays and bring an MLB team here instead. Except that's buried in plenty of issues too - the Baseball Grounds is less prepared for a pro team than the arena is (although, given how many people the Rays pull in... ;-) ), so it's play at Everbank (disaster) and/or rebuild the Baseball Grounds less than a decade after it was built (not going to happen).

So yeah, this NBA talk is a pipe dream - about 15 things need to happen in order for it to even be discussed as a possibility. Could it happen? Maybe 15-20 years from now. But this isn't a "this wouldn't work in Jacksonville" thing - it's a "this wouldn't work in any market like Jacksonville."

Did MJ turn into normal Jacksonville?  What's with the pessimism here?  If Mayor Brown wants to bring and NBA team here, why won't you guys let him?  I expected some part from the TU but not you guys.  Look, the NBA is never going to come to this city unless this city actually does SOMETHING!  If Mayor Brown is more than willing to make sure this city DOES SOMETHING, then why won't you guys let him? 

I can't believe I'm writing this here.  I know I should be asking this question to a lot of people in the Jacksonville.com comments, but here?  Really? 

Quote from: cityimrov on August 03, 2011, 12:00:40 PM
Did MJ turn into normal Jacksonville?  What's with the pessimism here?  If Mayor Brown wants to bring and NBA team here, why won't you guys let him?  I expected some part from the TU but not you guys.  Look, the NBA is never going to come to this city unless this city actually does SOMETHING!  If Mayor Brown is more than willing to make sure this city DOES SOMETHING, then why won't you guys let him? 

I can't believe I'm writing this here.  I know I should be asking this question to a lot of people in the Jacksonville.com comments, but here?  Really? 

There's a huge difference between pessimism and realism. Given the NBA's current situation and 20 year plan, the financial struggles of nearly every small market NBA team outside of OKC, a history of attendance problems in the two nearest NBA markets (Orlando and Atlanta) and likely unwillingness to water down either one of those fanbases, the size of our arena, corporate presence in Jacksonville relative other NBA teams, etc., there is quite literally a zero percent possibility that the NBA would place a franchise not just in Jacksonville, but in any market comparable to Jacksonville, anytime in the next 15 or 20 years. I love Jacksonville, and think we have a lot going for us, but I was simply stating that landing an NBA franchise is logistically impossible, from every conceivable angle. It's not bashing Jacksonville, but stating the simple, logical facts. I think the above poster put it perfect when he said: "This isn't a "this wouldn't work in Jacksonville" thing - it's a "this wouldn't work in any market like Jacksonville."

Quote from: cityimrov on August 03, 2011, 12:00:40 PM
Did MJ turn into normal Jacksonville?  What's with the pessimism here?  If Mayor Brown wants to bring and NBA team here, why won't you guys let him?  I expected some part from the TU but not you guys.  Look, the NBA is never going to come to this city unless this city actually does SOMETHING!  If Mayor Brown is more than willing to make sure this city DOES SOMETHING, then why won't you guys let him? 

I can't believe I'm writing this here.  I know I should be asking this question to a lot of people in the Jacksonville.com comments, but here?  Really? 

Its not pessimism to look at the realities of the situation. If Brown can start Jax on the path that in 20 years we land a 2nd pro team, then great. But I'll gladly put a bet of an adult beverage of anyone's choice that there will not be a second pro team in Jacksonville before Brown's term is up (even assuming 2 terms).

Talking about the NBA as a goal is silly and pointless. A 2nd pro franchise will only come here if about a million and one things happen first, about half of which the city has control over. So focus on that, and let the franchise questions settle themselves out later. Focusing on it as a goal just screams "misplaced priorities" more than anything else.

Quote from: Clem1029 on August 03, 2011, 12:13:51 PM

Quote from: cityimrov on August 03, 2011, 12:00:40 PM
Did MJ turn into normal Jacksonville?  What's with the pessimism here?  If Mayor Brown wants to bring and NBA team here, why won't you guys let him?  I expected some part from the TU but not you guys.  Look, the NBA is never going to come to this city unless this city actually does SOMETHING!  If Mayor Brown is more than willing to make sure this city DOES SOMETHING, then why won't you guys let him? 

I can't believe I'm writing this here.  I know I should be asking this question to a lot of people in the Jacksonville.com comments, but here?  Really? 

Its not pessimism to look at the realities of the situation. If Brown can start Jax on the path that in 20 years we land a 2nd pro team, then great. But I'll gladly put a bet of an adult beverage of anyone's choice that there will not be a second pro team in Jacksonville before Brown's term is up (even assuming 2 terms).

I stand corrected then.  I didn't listen to all his speeches so I probably missed the part where he wanted it in 4 years.  I didn't think he wanted to bring the NBA in 4 years which is rather difficult even if the city itself was perfect since there are committees and various things which need to be done.  I thought he was planning on doing the Jake Godbold thing and cheer on changing Jacksonville to bring the NFL.  Mayor Godbold did get the Jaguars but it was many years later. 

Is that really what he's saying, to bring an NBA team in 4 years?  Are any of those speeches online?  I just can't believe he said he would do it in 4 years.  It boggles my mind.  I didn't think the mayor was that ambitious but it would be interesting to see it happen.   We would probably be the fastest awarded franchise in the association history. 

I don't think he ever said he'd deliver a NBA team during his term. 

Quote from: KenFSU on August 03, 2011, 12:12:34 PM

Quote from: cityimrov on August 03, 2011, 12:00:40 PM
Did MJ turn into normal Jacksonville?  What's with the pessimism here?  If Mayor Brown wants to bring and NBA team here, why won't you guys let him?  I expected some part from the TU but not you guys.  Look, the NBA is never going to come to this city unless this city actually does SOMETHING!  If Mayor Brown is more than willing to make sure this city DOES SOMETHING, then why won't you guys let him? 

I can't believe I'm writing this here.  I know I should be asking this question to a lot of people in the Jacksonville.com comments, but here?  Really? 

There's a huge difference between pessimism and realism. Given the NBA's current situation and 20 year plan, the financial struggles of nearly every small market NBA team outside of OKC, a history of attendance problems in the two nearest NBA markets (Orlando and Atlanta) and likely unwillingness to water down either one of those fanbases, the size of our arena, corporate presence in Jacksonville relative other NBA teams, etc., there is quite literally a zero percent possibility that the NBA would place a franchise not just in Jacksonville, but in any market comparable to Jacksonville, anytime in the next 15 or 20 years. I love Jacksonville, and think we have a lot going for us, but I was simply stating that landing an NBA franchise is logistically impossible, from every conceivable angle. It's not bashing Jacksonville, but stating the simple, logical facts. I think the above poster put it perfect when he said: "This isn't a "this wouldn't work in Jacksonville" thing - it's a "this wouldn't work in any market like Jacksonville."

I have to concur, I am a realist not a pessimist on this issue.

No, he didn't say he'd do it 4 years, he's said consistently that it's just his dream. But it's an unrealistic dream for the city's top spokesman to keep going on about, rather than focusing on the big things we already have or could get more easily. Ocklawaha's image would have been more appropriate if it instead showed the kid chasing the hoop.

I have a dream that Jacksonville can be the capital of the United States!  ...and yes, I realize it isn't even the capital of the state in which it resides.  I'm not saying in the next four years, but sometime in the far off furture...

Threads like this is the reason I wish he would have never said anything about the NBA. As SOON as he said I knew how everyone would respond. ATLEAST he has a vision for this city, even if isnt realistic right now. None of our city leaders in the past few decades, except for delaney and godbald, had any vision for the city at all. So lets focus on the good that Brown is doing and stop having a stroke over a comment about the NBA.  :-\

Quote from: Tacachale on August 03, 2011, 01:43:06 PM
No, he didn't say he'd do it 4 years, he's said consistently that it's just his dream. But it's an unrealistic dream for the city's top spokesman to keep going on about, rather than focusing on the big things we already have or could get more easily. Ocklawaha's image would have been more appropriate if it instead showed the kid chasing the hoop.

So the dream of "A computer in every home" is very unrealistic in the 1950s?  So the dream of a country that exists out there that promises "a of the possibility of prosperity and success" vs living under rule of a king and queen and the lords of the manor is nothing but a dream?   So the dream of black people and white people living in harmony is a fantasy and like famous Senator Strom Thurmond mentioned we should just all go back to where we came from and work in little ways to fix things?  So the dreams of every single prosperous, rich, and fantastic organization or place is preposterous and shouldn't be done?

Tell me one organization, one city, one super successful place in this planet that was created without a dream for something so big it was outrageous.  Are you guys telling me the best mayor this city ever had was Mayor Peyton?

It's threads like these that make me want to move away from the city to other cities.  I know people in other cities who have dreams that have never, ever been done by a human being.  The cities they live in are rich and filled with people who also have similar dreams compared to Jacksonville.  The NBA?  30 other cities in this country figured out a way to bring the team to their cities!  30!   This has been done 30 times already.  Two of those cities are located in Florida and at one time in the past this city (Jacksonville FL) had 10x the resources and power as those two.  There's a thread here that mentioned how much more influential Jacksonville was compared to Miami!  Yes, Miami!  What happened to you guys?  What happened to Jacksonville? 

Why do you guys think that we cannot do what 30 other cities have done before us? 

^I think you're taking this way too serious.  If we're looking at a 50 year window, anything is possible.  If the window is 4 to 8, many things aren't.  That's not a negative, that's just reality.  What I take from the article is that if you want an NBA team here, the first priority should be focusing on creating the type of environment that can support such an investment.  That means, following Oklahoma City's path and investing in the community (parks, infrastructure, downtown, streetcars, etc.).

Quote from: thelakelander on August 03, 2011, 03:33:53 PM
^I think you're taking this way too serious.  If we're looking at a 50 year window, anything is possible.  If the window is 4 to 8, many things aren't.  That's not a negative, that's just reality.  What I take from the article is that if you want an NBA team here, the first priority should be focusing on creating the type of environment that can support such an investment.  That means, following Oklahoma City's path and investing in the community (parks, infrastructure, downtown, streetcars, etc.).

+10000

Quote from: Rynjny on August 03, 2011, 11:25:10 AM
Let's just try to keep the jaguars in jacksonville first before any NBA talks..This city would be nothing without the Jaguars!

The best way to keep the Jags is to keep adding things that make Jacksonville more vibrant and more relevant.  I am not looking at the NBA as an answer but the let's just try to keep what we have got is the best way to lose it. You are moving forward or backward that is just the way it is.

Quote from: JeffreyS on August 03, 2011, 04:02:33 PM

Quote from: Rynjny on August 03, 2011, 11:25:10 AM
Let's just try to keep the jaguars in jacksonville first before any NBA talks..This city would be nothing without the Jaguars!

The best way to keep the Jags is to keep adding things that make Jacksonville more vibrant and more relevant.  I am not looking at the NBA as an answer but the let's just try to keep what we have got is the best way to lose it. You are moving forward or backward that is just the way it is.

That was Mayor Peyton's plan.  It resonated quite well with the citizens of the city.  Keeping what we have, maintaining everything while doing minor improvements here and there.  He did pretty much that though for some reason everyone here dislikes him for just doing so. 

The other choice was Mayor Delaney who had this pipe and highly unrealistic dream of turning Jacksonville into Atlanta as remembered by the Better Jacksonville ads.  Atlanta, by the way, has an NFL, MLB, NHL, and a NBA team.  Oh, they also hosted the Olympics.  Mayor Brown has pretty simple goals compared to Mayor Delaney but from looking at this thread, Mayor Delaney was probably one of Jacksonville's worst and most unrealistic mayor.

Edit: Correction, he wanted Jacksonville to be better than Atlanta, to go beyond Atlanta, if I remember those ad's correctly. 

Jacksonville has every natural advantage over Atlanta.  If the citizens here wanted to be Atlanta (they don't) we would wipe the floor with Atlanta.

Quote from: cityimrov on August 03, 2011, 04:17:07 PM
Atlanta, by the way, has an NFL, MLB, NHL, and a NBA team.

Atlanta lost their NHL team to Winnipeg because the market wasn't/couldn't support the franchise. Their NBA team has had major attendance problems in the past few years, despite winning more games, and is rumored to be up for sale. If attendance continues to decline, despite Atlanta being a valuable market for the NBA, it's conceivable that the Hawks could possibly relocate as well. It is really hard for a market to support that many major franchises.

What Delaney said about Atlanta was that he didn't want Jacksonville to have some of the problems it has had in not properly managing its growth. The projects in the Better Jacksonville Plan weren't pipe dreams, they were quite realistic and practical, and in fact the majority of them are complete now.

In fairness to Jacksonville - and I understand and agree with the complaints about citizens' and leaders' all too often manifesting a lack of vision (a description that thankfully does not apply to Mayor Brown) - there have been times in the recent past that with the proper leadership, Jacksonville went for the gold, against the odds, and got it.  The NFL expansion drive and the Super Bowl are two examples. 

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on August 03, 2011, 05:20:08 PM
In fairness to Jacksonville - and I understand and agree with the complaints about citizens' and leaders' all too often manifesting a lack of vision (a description that thankfully does not apply to Mayor Brown) - there have been times in the recent past that with the proper leadership, Jacksonville went for the gold, against the odds, and got it.  The NFL expansion drive and the Super Bowl are two examples.

Those are perfect examples. When we got the Jags, Jacksonville was literally a little country town no one had heard of. NOBODY wanted us to have a team and they are still upset today that we got it. That is also why we are getting picked on now. Its kind of like " I told you they shouldve got a team." A little faith and confidence goes a long way. I think we have just been beat down by the media the past three years and Jacksonville has completely lost its swag. We use to have faith. Now we just claim defeat without even trying.

Well I'm doing my part to support the city and the Jaguars... Hope others would do the same also. If the Jaguars succeed, then that might start some NBA,MLB and other development talks. BTW the ticket price for the Jaguars are so affordable compare to other city.

Quote from: Tacachale on August 03, 2011, 05:11:05 PM
Atlanta lost their NHL team to Winnipeg because the market wasn't/couldn't support the franchise. Their NBA team has had major attendance problems in the past few years, despite winning more games, and is rumored to be up for sale. If attendance continues to decline, despite Atlanta being a valuable market for the NBA, it's conceivable that the Hawks could possibly relocate as well. It is really hard for a market to support that many major franchises.

Wow! ATL lost the NHL two times Atlanta Flames to Calgary in 80'. Note to self, ATL cannot support a NHL team. If the NHL knows what's good for them they should be more teams in Canada/Northern U.S. No more teams in the Southern U.S. Hartford vs. Quebec (two cities that lost their teams) that sounds like hockey; Dallas vs. Florida, not so much. I'll be very surprised if the new Winnipeg Jets have any problems with attendance. They REALLY care about the sport up in Canada.

As for Jax getting a NBA team anytime soon, we probably would be another Vancouver and lose our team very shortly, and that's coming from the most optimistic Jax homer on MJ. Face it, Jax is NOT a basketball city! Look at the comparasion between the Jax Sharks attendance, and the Giants. Whoever said that instead of a NBA team, we should worry about keeping the Jags here, I TOTALLY agree with them 100%.

I read the article and he makes a valid point that OKC is booming more because of rail, convention center, bike trails and other smart planning and building. However...

Downtown Jacksonville NEEDS to get more athletic at the local level. Where are all the pick-up games at night? Many outdoor courts I've seen are rather sorry looking and lack night time lights. San Marco library court, the gym in riverside, indoor gym at JTB YMCA only a few really good spots.

I'd like to see the Sports Bureau he created promote more leagues, invite more local tournaments, etc. An NBA push might help that.

So, who on this board would buy season tickets for an NBA team?  I think the average price is somewhere around $40 and there are 41 home games.

I love college hoops but just can't get excited about the NBA.  I think they have too many games that are meaningless.  I would much prefer for us to stay on the rotation for NCAA tournament games and hopefully move up to hosting regional finals.  Final Four would be great, but these days you need to hold it in an indoor football stadium.

But ... Not much harm in dreaming about it for those who love the sport.  My dream would be for Jax to host the Summer Olympics - with the final mile of the marathon coming across the Hart Bridge and around the track at Everbank Field... Oh forgot - we don't have a track at Everbank.  Oh well so much for that one.

NBA in Jacksonville won't work...even if it did, it would be nearly impossible for them to compete, unless Mark Cuban was footing the bill.  Salaries are way too high, though that may change soon...

Why not something more modest, like an MLS team?  Salt Lake City, Columbus, and Portland have teams...and these all seem like great small cities that Jacksonville should be measuring itself up against...not ATL.  The only teams in the 64-team Premier Development League (the Destroyers' league) that come from cities on par w/ Jax are New Orleans, Nashville, Ottawa, and St. Louis.  As the MLS looks to expand, Jacksonville seems like a reasonable target.  And, the MLS season (Mar-Oct) doesn't completely overlap the NFL's (Sep-Jan)...though the NBA won't be overlapping any other leagues this year...

Quote from: dougskiles on August 03, 2011, 07:50:58 PM
So, who on this board would buy season tickets for an NBA team?  I think the average price is somewhere around $40 and there are 41 home games.

Exactly...not many...

Even if they were $20/game, you could still get Jag's season tickets for 1/3 the price.  And good luck winning games when you're selling tickets for $20.

Quote from: blandman on August 03, 2011, 08:05:04 PM

Quote from: dougskiles on August 03, 2011, 07:50:58 PM
So, who on this board would buy season tickets for an NBA team?  I think the average price is somewhere around $40 and there are 41 home games.

Exactly...not many...

Even if they were $20/game, you could still get Jag's season tickets for 1/3 the price.  And good luck winning games when you're selling tickets for $20.

So what you guys are saying is that Mayor Brown's first initiative to get an NBA team is to find out a way to increase the wages of the people who live here so they can spend money for the games?  Especially those who live in the lower income brackets of the North & Westside community who love the game?

Doesn't sound like a bad start to me.

If his priority is to build up a community with an economic environment capable of winning and supporting a NBA franchise, in the future, then I'm all on board.

Quote from: thelakelander on August 03, 2011, 10:31:02 PM
If his priority is to build up a community with an economic environment capable of winning and supporting a NBA franchise, in the future, then I'm all on board.

+1

I don't think it's a fair to compare the Sharks to the Giants. I know both are cheap tickets but the AFL is actually backed by the NFL and ESPN. So you still have the marketing power and presentation push that's backed by the NFL. I personally haven't attended either though. Though I'm happy to see the Sharks having the success they are having this year, I'd say the Jaguars do more and bring more to this city than the Sharks and Giants combined.

As far as sports go, I'd rather see things happen for the city that would further secure the Jaguars chances of staying in Jacksonville. From support of the residents, as well as the business community financial backing. Anything after that is just icing on the cake in my opinion. 

Oh yeah, get us a Lingerie Football League team while you're at it too Mayor Brown :)

Quote from: I-10east on August 03, 2011, 07:08:44 PM
As for Jax getting a NBA team anytime soon, we probably would be another Vancouver and lose our team very shortly, and that's coming from the most optimistic Jax homer on MJ. Face it, Jax is NOT a basketball city! Look at the comparasion between the Jax Sharks attendance, and the Giants. Whoever said that instead of a NBA team, we should worry about keeping the Jags here, I TOTALLY agree with them 100%.

I completely disagree with your conclusions, and this from the man least likely to EVER attend a basketball game, NBA, NCAA, or High School, hell I'd rather watch cotton grow.

That we can't manage what we have seems to be the gist of about 75% of the comments posted on this thread, most of which are thinly veiled as supposed "logic" and "reality," etc... I submit to all of you that this is our single biggest enemy in Jacksonville, it isn't IF or WOULD we support a team, business, or concept, it's the fact that so many of our citizens are ready to hang up the closed sign before the idea is even fully developed. What a bunch of defeatists. Had Robert E. Lee, Isoroku Yamamoto, George Washington or Martin Luther King taken such a view we wouldn't even know their names today.

So we are NOT a basketball city? Really? Based on what?

Based on memory? Could it be you are too young to remember the JU Dolphins with one Artis Gilmore who rose from complete obscurity to challenge UCLA for the national title? A city that was painted with Dolphin Green? Chants of "Artis, Arits, Artis..." rising from the city streets as the fever caught hold and even I turned to watch a game on TV.

Based on minor league attendance? That's funny, sort of like saying nobody rides our PCT buses so streetcars will fail. Or better yet, remember when our hockey team went to the "national finals" against the "Fayetteville Fire Ants?" Call it snobbery if you wish, but I'm not going across the street to watch my city of 1.4 million play a game against "Fire Ants." Give me a challenge, send our team against Atlanta, Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago, Portland, or Phoenix, but Fayetteville? REALLY? Biloxi and Dogpatch could be next. Yeah, we must not be a hockey city either...

I happen to like our Jags and our "fish" so somebody call me when the Sharks are playing Palatka because only then will you have an apples to apples comparison.

[OCKLAWAHA

...And for even more defeatist fun, check out the TU comments....

Quote"Ocklawaha - we are 4 years away from losing a NFL team."

As is every other city in the league, some with worse attendance or unhappy owners and not one of them with ownership more determined to keep the team at home then the Weavers.

Quote"Just a month ago 4 people were shot downtown..."

Downtown shootings? Really? How about on 6/28, fatal shooting in Panama Park, or 6/22 in Normandy, or 6/23 in Woodstock,  or 6/29 in Glynlea, or 6/29 in Ortega Bluff, or 6/30 in Talleyrand, or 7/5 in East Arlington, or 7/10 in Paxon, or or 7/28 in Atlantic Beach, or 8/3 in Cedar Hills, or... Guess we'd better all stay indoors?

Quote"We can't sustain a rail system ( see skyway )."

A failure on the part of JTA to complete a downtown people mover project to a single one of its proposed terminals hardly counts as a failure of the city to sustain a rail system. BTW, sustain it how? Profit? Like the money we make off of Roosevelt, or JTB each year?

Quote"and the "trolley" doesn't count as streetcars,"

This is VERY TRUE, as the author of the city's streetcar plan some 30 years ago, I'm happy to say the streetcars FINALLY have a funding source as of May 2011. And we should see some action on a heritage streetcar system within 5 years.

Quote"Macy's and Sac's won't be sticking around long enough to branch out to Jacksonville anyway as many of the big department stores are failing."

Its a simple evolution of the marketplace that has continued since the dawn of time. If not Macy's or Sac's it will be another in name or form, they certainly won't avoid us because our 1.4 million people are SO different from anybody else's 1.4 million. Of course we could just shoot ourselves in the foot and convince our citizens and our chamber that there is no use in trying.

Quote"You seem to forget that this city is a military city, with many of the families bringing in median or less than median pay."

And the single largest block of consumer/customers that drive retail is our high schooler's, a group I seriously doubt equal the pay and benefits of our military.

Bottom line, I see the glass is half full, and see no reason why Jacksonville should not strive to be the city of dreams. Certainly as grownup's we all realize that you win some and lose some, but we need a winners attitude in everything we do.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: comncense on August 03, 2011, 10:58:15 PM


Oh yeah, get us a Lingerie Football League team while you're at it too Mayor Brown :)

SMDH  :D

Quote from: Tacachale on August 03, 2011, 08:01:27 AM
Word. The mayor needs to drop this pipe dream.

Mayor Brown is crazy! Jax dont need NBA. NBA only has like 8 teams that draw outside of their metro. Nba sucks anyway.

Dear Mayor Brown. Please put your energy and efforts elsewhere. This idea is a dog. Thank you.

Quote from: ubben on August 04, 2011, 09:21:51 AM
Dear Mayor Brown. Please put your energy and efforts elsewhere. This idea is a dog. Thank you.

And He already has. Thanks

Quote from: thelakelander on August 03, 2011, 10:31:02 PM
If his priority is to build up a community with an economic environment capable of winning and supporting a NBA franchise, in the future, then I'm all on board.

I think the main gist of the Woods article was more a "Cart before the horse" arguement. NBA would fit nicely IMO, provided we had a vibrant downtown (economically and environmentally speaking) to begin with.

The current state of the NBA does not bode well for thoughts of expansion, however.

My problem with Brown's little NBA kick isn't just that it's a dream, it's that it's a dream that's not attainable anytime soon. The worry is that it's misplaced energy and a distraction from pursuing dreams that are actually achievable, which isn't something I want in my mayor.

In terms of sports, first and foremost, our dream should be to make the Jaguars a strongly supported NFL team with no attendance problems. That's attainable.

Beyond the Jags there's plenty more we could accomplish here that we haven't yet. We could get AAA baseball basically tomorrow. We already have an excellent stadium, a well supported AA team, and a long history of supporting minor league ball. We could also easily get high level minor league hockey in the arena, if not the AHL then at least ECHL. We would be a good market for pro soccer, perhaps not MLS yet but at least one of the upper tier leagues, the NASL or USL Pro.

Then there's college sports. If Brown likes basketball he could drum up support for JU and UNF, who are now full members of NCAA Division I as of the 2009-2010 season.

And it wouldn't take much more than some good planning and deal-making to get major league spring training back in Jax.

There are plenty of dreams that have a chance of happening; these would be a better use of energy.

Quote from: Tacachale on August 04, 2011, 01:16:04 PM
We could also easily get high level minor league hockey in the arena, if not the AHL then at least ECHL.

I absolutely love the idea of minor league hockey at the arena. I'd be there in a second.

Its atleast refershing to know that he very passionate about sports in Jacksonville. Hopefully the sports and entertainment department he trying to create can leverage something and maybe come up with new and innovative ways  too attractive and/ or retain current teams and sporting events. I just read on the daily record there is a communication that was sent out by the mayor urging businesses and citizens to go out and buy Jag tickets. So far almost 80 business has purchased/subsidized Jags tickets for their company. And I'm sure if push comes to shove, the Mayor will do more as needed.

What exactly are you guys arguing for?  I get the part where nobody really wants the NBA here but the rest of the arguments is confusing me.  The arguments for other sports - soccer, hockey, etc - I can see but the point but rest of the argument 75% of this thread, I can't figure it out.  What exactly do you guys want? 

It seems like you guys are arguing against the NBA yet at the same time arguing for the NBA since no matter what, bringing an NBA team to Jacksonville means we're going to need to ramp up the city and bring things like a better downtown, a stronger sports presence, higher wages, and more.  Even the Jaguar issue must be solved.  If he's going to convince the NBA to bring a team here, he's going to need to give good evidence to them that the Jaguars are successful here.   I don't see why it matters if he thinks long term vs short term to bring the same results to Jacksonville?  If the end results are the same, what's wrong unless you guys are auguring against the end results. 

If that's the way he thinks about solving problems, that's the way he thinks about solving problems.  Trying to change that thinking means micromanaging the mayor and I'm not sure that's a good thing to do. 

Can someone clear this up for me?

Quote from: cityimrov on August 04, 2011, 02:32:33 PM
If that's the way he thinks about solving problems, that's the way he thinks about solving problems.  Trying to change that thinking means micromanaging the mayor and I'm not sure that's a good thing to do. 

Can someone clear this up for me?

That is EXACTLY what I am getting too. So far he presented a balanced budget, raised money to save the JROTC program for high schools this year, and been traveling in attempt to build partnerships, and lets not forget he's only been in office for....... a month. It seems as if everyone is stuck on his comments about a movie theather and NBA, and we are missing the important stuff. Get a Grip Duvalians

Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 04, 2011, 03:04:35 PM

Quote from: cityimrov on August 04, 2011, 02:32:33 PM
If that's the way he thinks about solving problems, that's the way he thinks about solving problems.  Trying to change that thinking means micromanaging the mayor and I'm not sure that's a good thing to do. 

Can someone clear this up for me?

That is EXACTLY what I am getting too. So far he presented a balanced budget, raised money to save the JROTC program for high schools this year, and been traveling in attempt to build partnerships, and lets not forget he's only been in office for....... a month. It seems as if everyone is stuck on his comments about a movie theather and NBA, and we are missing the important stuff. Get a Grip Duvalians

I agree

i would be willing to re-instate a 1 cent sales tax in order to fund the Hogan's Creek Masterplan, the Streetcar, the riverwalk extension to memorial park, the properly designed transit center, something new for the current courthouse lot, improvements to the shipyards and extending the grid to the river, the public pier, and some redevelopment of Commodore point.  I realize these are spread out across a pretty significant distance, but I think all of these projects are critical to Jax reaching the next level.  The riverwalk park one not so much, but that one is for personal reasons.

I couldn't agree more with you Captain, except I would add commuter rail to the list!

Quote from: cityimrov on August 04, 2011, 02:32:33 PM
I don't see why it matters if he thinks long term vs short term to bring the same results to Jacksonville?

The discussion, as far as I'm concerned, was never even directly about Brown or his other contributions thus far, but rather about the viability of the NBA in Jacksonville in 2011 and beyond. There's no need to blow a very specific argument out of proportion and assume it is the only thing anyone is focusing on. The subject has gotten a lot of attention, including in the TU, because it was an unexpected and intriguing statement.

In my opinion, it is a short term vs. long term argument.

The NBA is, hands down, my favorite professional sports league in the world. But I wouldn't want an NBA franchise in Jacksonville right now, even if it were somehow possible (which it absolutely isn't, for many, many reasons unrelated to our quality as a city). Short term, it would never work. Long term though, an NBA franchise is absolutely attainable, and would have the potential to be a huge success. There are a million other things that need to be done though to ensure long-term viability before we can even begin to think about bringing in an NBA team.  We need to attract a larger corporate presence. We need to improve quality of life in Jacksonville, especially downtown, in order to bring in more young professionals with disposable income to spend on things like NBA season tickets. We need to focus on making the Jags a genuine success. All of these things should be our immediate goals. An NBA franchise isn't a goal you strive for, but rather the byproduct of doing many other things correctly and consistently. When we're there, the NBA will be banging down our doors to put a team here.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 04, 2011, 03:14:23 PM
i would be willing to re-instate a 1 cent sales tax in order to fund the Hogan's Creek Masterplan, the Streetcar, the riverwalk extension to memorial park, the properly designed transit center, something new for the current courthouse lot, improvements to the shipyards and extending the grid to the river, the public pier, and some redevelopment of Commodore point.  I realize these are spread out across a pretty significant distance, but I think all of these projects are critical to Jax reaching the next level.  The riverwalk park one not so much, but that one is for personal reasons.

Quote from: fsujax on August 04, 2011, 03:28:44 PM
I couldn't agree more with you Captain, except I would add commuter rail to the list!

I like all of it. All that can't be funded by a 1 cent sales tax though.

Brown has said - repeatedly - that he wants to attract an NBA team to Jacksonville within the next ten years. He's not saying, "let's build up the community and economic infrastructure so that we're at a level that we can support an NBA team as well as the Jaguars down the road". He's just going on with a big dream without any specifics about how to pull it off. That's the problem. It's just not a reasonable goal for that time frame, and it makes one hope he won't just keep dreaming this particular dream at the expense of others that have a better chance of coming true.

I'm not trying to rail on the guy or his other accomplishments. I just think he's on the wrong track on this issue.

QuoteI like all of it. All that can't be funded by a 1 cent sales tax though.

Actually, it can.  The most expensive thing to the taxpayer on that list is the transit center and this site has proved time and time again that it can be built for well under $100M.

Hogan's: $5M
Streetcar: $20M at most
Transit Center: $80M
Riverwalk: $5M
Courthouse Site: $30M for the public portion and the rest funded by a deal with the Hyatt
Shipyards: $20M
Commodore:$$$???


That's $160M total, or less than a half of the Courthouse.

The mayor is focusing on the most pressing issues in the city right now and we should do the same. Were the ones ranting on for days about this. He's mentioned the NBS in like two speeches and havent said anything about it since. It  seems to be a bigger issue with us than it is him.

^That's the thing, it's not just two speeches, he's brought it up repeatedly, including fitting it into his inaugural address. That was the whole impetus for Woods' column.

^^Who cares!! He can say what he wants, its a free country. Geez. This whole thread is pointless and is beating a dead horse. If had the capibility of locking this thread I would.  >:(

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 04, 2011, 04:01:07 PM

QuoteI like all of it. All that can't be funded by a 1 cent sales tax though.

Actually, it can.  The most expensive thing to the taxpayer on that list is the transit center and this site has proved time and time again that it can be built for well under $100M.

Hogan's: $5M
Streetcar: $20M at most
Transit Center: $80M
Riverwalk: $5M
Courthouse Site: $30M for the public portion and the rest funded by a deal with the Hyatt
Shipyards: $20M
Commodore:$$$???


That's $160M total, or less than a half of the Courthouse.

True enough. The Better Jacksonville Plan was to generate $2.2B in sales tax revenue. It came up short, but still generated enough to fund a substantial portion of the proposed BJP. Another similar plan to BJP could continue with these projects and many more with little or no impact to our bottom line. I mean do we really "feel" that extra penny even when times are difficult as they are now. Minimal impact, much benefit.

A little more to the thread title, I think we need to make what we have work now before wondering out loud abotu another professional sports franchise. A move up to AAA in baseball might be a more logical step if we do anything. In the distant future - and after we have the Jaguars locked in permantly - then sure NBA, NHL, MLB. Why not dream and then make it happen. Our growth will help dictate how that all plays out.

Don't worry guys, we've got lacrosse in the arena!

http://northamericanlacrosseleague.com/splash.cfm?go=article&id=557

Quote from: exnewsman on August 04, 2011, 05:50:05 PM
A little more to the thread title, I think we need to make what we have work now before wondering out loud abotu another professional sports franchise. A move up to AAA in baseball might be a more logical step if we do anything. In the distant future - and after we have the Jaguars locked in permantly - then sure NBA, NHL, MLB. Why not dream and then make it happen. Our growth will help dictate how that all plays out.

I agree entirely. All of the things I mentioned above (baseball, hockey, college hoops, etc) are achievable within 5 years if we put our energies there. AAA baseball could literally happen by next season if we played our cards right. And if we do things right, there's no limit to what we can do in the future.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 03, 2011, 11:20:08 PM
I completely disagree with your conclusions, and this from the man least likely to EVER attend a basketball game, NBA, NCAA, or High School, hell I'd rather watch cotton grow.

That we can't manage what we have seems to be the gist of about 75% of the comments posted on this thread, most of which are thinly veiled as supposed "logic" and "reality," etc... I submit to all of you that this is our single biggest enemy in Jacksonville, it isn't IF or WOULD we support a team, business, or concept, it's the fact that so many of our citizens are ready to hang up the closed sign before the idea is even fully developed. What a bunch of defeatists. Had Robert E. Lee, Isoroku Yamamoto, George Washington or Martin Luther King taken such a view we wouldn't even know their names today.

So we are NOT a basketball city? Really? Based on what?

Based on memory? Could it be you are too young to remember the JU Dolphins with one Artis Gilmore who rose from complete obscurity to challenge UCLA for the national title? A city that was painted with Dolphin Green? Chants of "Artis, Arits, Artis..." rising from the city streets as the fever caught hold and even I turned to watch a game on TV.

Based on minor league attendance? That's funny, sort of like saying nobody rides our PCT buses so streetcars will fail. Or better yet, remember when our hockey team went to the "national finals" against the "Fayetteville Fire Ants?" Call it snobbery if you wish, but I'm not going across the street to watch my city of 1.4 million play a game against "Fire Ants." Give me a challenge, send our team against Atlanta, Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago, Portland, or Phoenix, but Fayetteville? REALLY? Biloxi and Dogpatch could be next. Yeah, we must not be a hockey city either...

I happen to like our Jags and our "fish" so somebody call me when the Sharks are playing Palatka because only then will you have an apples to apples comparison.

[OCKLAWAHA

Oh yeah, the Jacksonville Lizard Kings in ECHL Hockey filled up the Jax Coliseum with fans in the championship game so that means Jax can easily support the NHL. ::) Spur of the moment success (like Artis's Dolphins back in the day) and supporting a NBA franchise fulltime are apples and oranges. Anybody can sell out with success, how things are gonna go when everything isn't so rosy? A coupla subpar seasons + Jax NBA basketball= another Vancouver.

Sure nuff' Common the NFL Network backs the AFL and the ABA doesn't have that financial backing, BUT the attendance contrast between the two in Jax has much more to do with city passion for the sport (football over b-ball) than anything else.   

I have to admit. Jacksonville IS a football city whether its college, arena or NFL. We love some football

MEMO:

TO: All posters in the NBA thread

SUBJECT: Projecting a positive public image for the COJ

Effective immediately those posting in this thread will be welcome at the Times-Union Site, your long lost brothers and sisters have been looking for you.

Ocklawaha loves Jacksonville and you've managed to talk him out of it. My son wants us to move to Colorado and frankly right now I can't think of a single POSITIVE reason to stay here! Thanks guys.

God help us if some industrialist or corporate location specialist reads this thread, talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, you've got that down pat.

(NOTE TO SELF - Abandon hope all ye who enter here and leave town ASAP)

WELCOME TO JACKSONVILLE:

The air is polluted, the fish are dead, the downtown is a wasteland, nobody cares, nobody will support anything, the Jags are leaving, all other sports have failed, we're not walkable, we're too dangerous, too sprawled, to broke, don't have mass transit, can't support it if we did have it, JTA is a joke, have substandard pay, substandard lifestyle, depression, abandonment, dispair, nothing to offer, defeated, ill planned, Godless,  and now we finally have a progressive leader... Have no fear Mayor Brown, they'll have you certified as insane for being positive within days.

Message to the mayor from the citizens? If your going to be a positive person or a dreamer please shut-up about Jacksonville, your taking us into unfamiliar territory and we're feeling nauseous.

This is way deeper then some stupid NBA dream team, what I'm reading here is the spirit and soul of the city which ought to scare the hell out of every progressive person in our leadership. We've got problems, big, HUGE.

OCKLAWAHA

LOL, I think a lot of you guys are taking this thread WAAAYYYYY too serious.  It's getting pretty comical now.

The only thing left for us to do in Jacksonville is to rename the MSA "The Greater Palatka MSA."  Hell if we can just get the last few "believers" to throw in the towel, we could level whatever is left of the town and make the whole place a state historic park.

Almost forgot, too many fire ants for picnics...

OCKLAWAHA

Bringing the NBA to Jacksonville in the next five years is an entirely reasonable goal. 

I'd say there's a 50/50 chance it happens.  But there's a catch.

The Jacksonville Giants in the ABA have proven that, even with a team on a small budget, some fans will turn out for quasi-professional basketball.  They probably gave away more tickets than they sold, but that can be forgiven.

The actual ABA is a joke, it's the same name as the old ABA... but that's it.  Some guy purchased the rights and sells teams to anyone who'll front $10k for a franchise fee.  They have dozens of teams that come online and go out of business each year... and there are dozens and dozens of canceled games each season.  Many teams play in High School gyms with 100 fans or less in the stands.   

Our local team did a great job, considering the league... the Giants were by far the most professional basketball team in the entire ABA. 

Anyway, back to the original point of this - bringing the NBA to Jacksonville.

The arena is too small to support a full NBA franchise and the league would never move a full-blown team here in the next 50 years.  It just will not happen.  If that's what Alvin Brown is saying, then he's smoking dope.

However, the NBA D-League is an entirely different story.

All Brown has to do to declare victory on his "bringing the NBA to Jacksonville" pledge is to convince someone to relocate a D-League franchise here. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_D-League

The D-League brings the NBA brand with it.  The games are sometimes nationally televised on secondary sports stations like Vs. or ESPN2.  The number of fans you need to turn-out for a game is far lower than a full NBA franchise. 

So the team would basically be like the Jacksonville Suns.  Cheap tickets, dollar beer nights and free prize giveaways could keep the arena half-full... which would be good enough.

Bring in the D league!  Then we could watch guys play who are hungry to make something for themselves.  Which is the basic reason I like the college game more than NBA.

^Oh yeah, the D-League would definitely work at the arena. That's a great idea.

I popped this into another thread, but the mayor isn't backing off of his vision.....

From the Lacrosse discussion:

QuoteBrown welcomed the new franchise and also provided those gathered with a glimpse into Jacksonville’s sports future.
“We are a sports city and I believe this is one way to bring Jacksonville to the next level,” said Brown.
“Lacrosse is here. Who would’ve thought several years ago that we could have a professional lacrosse team here? One thing you keep hearing me say, time and time again, one day we are going to have an NBA team. That’s how you get to the next level, having a vision and looking to the future,” Brown said.
The mayor may have found a connection for that. Evans is the former president of the NBA’s Developmental League, a position he held from 2002-07.

^I was just going to post that. The Evans quoted above is North American Lacrosse League commissioner Phil Evans. This could be a good connection toward the D-League at least.

This Lacrosse thing is pretty funny.  It's a developmental league for indoor lacrosse, which is basically what Arena Football is to the NFL (in this case, Major League Lacrosse).

So essentially we got ourselves the Lacrosse equal of an old AF2 team.  Hooray?

The D-League could work here... it would have 5% the economic impact that a real NBA team would have, so it's not such a huge deal.  But it would be fun to watch.

On the downside, it is definitely minor league.  We'd be playing against the likes of the Fort Wayne Mad Ants and the Maine Red Claws.   Certainly no worse than the Suns hosting the Montgomery Biscuits, but not something that makes us really sound like a major league city, either.

I dont think its so much about being a major league. You dont have to be condiered a "major league city" to be considered a sports city. Also, Jacksonville has to find its own nitches and what will work for us. I like having a Lacrosse team and a Rugby team. That makes us unique and different. We NEED to find our own identiy and stop trying to be like other cities.

I'm all for us being a sports city.  If we got a MLL team and people supported it, that would be awesome.

Though, to be honest, I've tried watching several MLL games on TV and it's not all that spectator-friendly. 

There is nothing particularly unique about having a smattering of minor league teams.   Most mid-sized cities have the same thing.

There's a lot to like about sports in Jacksonville.  You could argue that we're already a sports city.

In terms of being unique - we're a golf super-city.  Heck, we have the World Golf Hall of Fame here! 

Our Arena Football team has been spectacularly good recently, so that's a definite plus. 

And we are an awfully small city to have an NFL team... which is also great, so long as we can keep them here. 

What I would personally love to see in Jacksonville within the next ten years, all of which I think are reasonable and attainable goals.

1) A strong Jags franchise without any talk of blackouts or relocation.
2) AAA Baseball with some exciting MLB prospects
3) Continued success for the Jacksonville Sharks
4) Minor league hockey with affordable ticket prices drawing crowds similar to the Sharks
5) D-League NBA, again with some good future NBA prospects and a high quality level of play
6) A genuine, up-and-coming football program at UNF, flanked by a decently competitive basketball team as well
7) A big UFC event at the Arena. MMA isn't quite as popular as it was at its peak in the last few years, but I think a major show, or even a television special, could do pretty well here.
8 ) Yearly big WWE events at the Arena. Though not necessarily a true "sport," it's still amongst the highest rated shows on cable, and their events can have big economic impact on cities.
9) A regular presence hosting the NCAA Tournament.
10) Yearly NBA preseason games, to get the city excited about basketball and behind the idea of making a run for a team in the future.

Quote from: KenFSU on August 05, 2011, 02:27:58 PM
What I would personally love to see in Jacksonville within the next ten years, all of which I think are reasonable and attainable goals.

6) A genuine, up-and-coming football program at UNF, flanked by a decently competitive basketball team as well

The JU football program has been top dog in the Pioneer league for the past couple of seasons -- and their basketball team has been competing for A-Sun title for the past 3-4 years with some strong prospects.  --and was 2-0 versus the SEC last year in basketball.

QuoteThe JU football program has been top dog in the Pioneer league for the past couple of seasons

I have JU, FSU and Jags season tickets.

I have to say... JU offers a tremendous product for the price now that Kerwin Bell has assembled some good rosters.  They had a special this week where you could have bought 4 season tickets for $90. 

And JU has always put out a get basketball team.  Have been going to JU games since '86.  Season ticket holders also get a pre-game meal.  Again, D1 basketball for $200 season tickets that includes food in a great facility is a pretty darn good deal.

^UNF season tickets run even cheaper than that. $120 for D-I hoops, now featuring tournament eligibility. Made that A-Sun final last year, one game away from the big dance in our second year. This train's a-rollin', get on board now. ;)

Quote from: Tacachale on August 05, 2011, 03:12:51 PM
^UNF season tickets run even cheaper than that. $120 for D-I hoops, now featuring tournament eligibility. Made that A-Sun final last year, one game away from the big dance in our second year. This train's a-rollin', get on board now. ;)

Just JU season tickets are $100.  $200 if you want a pre-game meal in the Everbank Arena Club(great socializing place and one of the coaches always comes up and talks before the game) and you get a reserved seat.

Courtside tickets are $400.