http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/401820/mark-woods/2011-03-27/rick-scott-public-housing-governor%E2%80%99s-mansion-then-%E2%80%A6 (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/401820/mark-woods/2011-03-27/rick-scott-public-housing-governor%E2%80%99s-mansion-then-%E2%80%A6)
QuoteRick Scott: Public housing, governor’s mansion, then … nothing?
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Submitted by Mark Woods on March 27, 2011 - 5:39am Mark Woods' Blog
Gov. Rick Scott has proposed eliminating homeless funding from the state budget.
Not just reducing it from $7 million to zero. Getting rid of the line item, making sure the state doesn’t fund it in the future.
With this in mind, homeless advocates from all over the state headed to Tallahassee last week. For the Sulzbacher Center, state funding only represents a small piece of its budget. But Cindy Funkhouser, Sulzbacher chief program officer, says that money â€" mostly devoted to preventive programs â€" is important for the state’s homeless. Or to be more accurate, the state’s nearly homeless.
“By eliminating those dollars, you’re throwing that many more people into the streets,†she said. “And it’s so much harder to stabilize a family after they become homeless. It’s so short-sighted.â€
It appears our state legislators agree. They plan to continue some funding. The governor, however, has not shown any signs of changing his view. Which is that we need to cut spending, lower the corporate tax rate and get to work. That will keep people from becoming homeless.
It’s certainly true that jobs are the best antidote to homelessness.
But here’s what makes this interesting: Scott lived in government-subsidized, low-income housing.
When he and his four siblings were growing up, when their father didn’t have a job and their mother was doing odd jobs, the government helped keep a roof over their heads.
It’s not like it took extensive investigative reporting to unearth this fact.
It is something that Scott repeated on the campaign trail, over and over. He didn’t use the words “government-subsidized.†But in an effort to illustrate that he wasn’t just a former hospital executive who got a $300 million golden parachute, bought a $9 million house in Florida and decided to run for governor, he often talked about his childhood. Particularly the part in Urbana, Ill.
“I have lived the American dream,†he said at campaign stops, in debates and interviews. “I grew up in public housing.â€
Scott even had his mother, Esther, film a television ad talking about it.
“You’ve heard a lot about Rick Scott,†she said. “But I’m going to tell you a few things you don’t know. Rick was raised in public housing ...â€
It turned out to be a bit of an exaggeration to say Scott “grew up†in public housing. When the South Florida Sun-Sentinel reviewed public records, it showed that his family spent about three years in public housing, beginning when Scott was 3 or 4.
But he did indeed live there while his family tried to get back on more stable financial footing. On the campaign trail, Scott frequently recalled how his father, a truck driver, often was laid off by Thanksgiving. One year, he said, his parents didn’t have enough money to buy Christmas gifts.
“I never had a holiday that my parents had it easy,†he said.
Lakeside Terrace was torn down about five years ago. But when Scott lived there in the mid-1950s, it was relatively new. It opened in 1952, right next to a lake and a park, a row of 21 townhouses each with four two-story units.
At the time, public housing was facing much opposition. The National Association of Home Builders had sent members pre-packaged ads for their local newspapers that said, “Can you afford to pay somebody else’s rent?â€
Scott’s family ultimately ended up in Kansas City, Mo., where they lived in a three-bedroom, two-bath house. But when times were tough, the government helped pay the rent. And when he grew up and times were good, checks from government health-care programs such Medicare, Medicaid and Tricare helped make Scott rich.
So now he is living in the grandest of public housing, the Governor’s Mansion.
The night of his inauguration, one of his big fundraisers, Brian Ballard, gave a speech at the Friends of the Inaugural Candlelight Dinner and talked about Scott’s journey from public housing in Illinois.
“He couldn’t remember the house he lived in, because each door was the same, each house was the same,†Ballard said.
Some of the Florida’s homeless and nearly homeless â€" and there are 100 families on the Sulzbacher’s waiting list alone â€" might point out each roof also was the same.
How much should the state spend on homeless programs? In tough times like now? In the better times we all hope lie ahead?
I don’t know. I just know it’s interesting to hear the governor say his answer is nothing. Now and forever.
Quite a fellow.
I hate to write something like this for fear someone will think I'm living in a "compound"... BUT I really fear that this guy is way too radical, way too fast for his own good. Wiping out schools, homeless/housing projects, parks and every other social thing in the budget is pissing off a massive amount of people. So far so good, but when you start pissing off people that have had a tough life, made bad decisions, been down and out and feel they have nothing to lose... well their reaction could be CATASTROPHIC. QuoteWilliam Justus Goebel (January 4, 1856 â€" February 3, 1900) was an American politician who served as the 34th Governor of Kentucky for a few days in 1900 after having been mortally wounded by an assassin the day before he was sworn in. Goebel remains the only state governor in the United States to be assassinated while in office.
A skilled politician, Goebel was well able to broker deals with fellow lawmakers, and equally able and willing to break the deals if a better deal came along. His tendency to use the state's political machinery to advance his personal agenda earned him the nicknames "Boss Bill", "the Kenton King", "Kenton Czar", "King William I", and "William the Conqueror".
Goebel's abrasive personality made him many political enemies, but his championing of populist causes, like railroad regulation... In the politically chaotic climate that resulted, Goebel was assassinated. The identity of his assassin remains a mystery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Goebel
QuoteHuey Pierce Long, Jr. (August 30, 1893 â€" September 10, 1935), nicknamed The Kingfish, served as the 40th Governor of Louisiana from 1928â€"1932 and as a U.S. Senator from 1932 to 1935.
Long created the Share Our Wealth program in 1934 with the motto "Every Man a King", proposing new wealth redistribution measures in the form of a net asset tax on corporations and individuals to curb the poverty and hopelessness endemic nationwide during the Great Depression. To stimulate the economy, Long advocated federal spending on public works, schools and colleges, and old age pensions. He was an ardent critic of the Federal Reserve System's policies. Charismatic and immensely popular for his programs and willingness to take forceful action, Long was accused by his opponents of dictatorial tendencies for his near-total control of the state government.
However, Long was assassinated in 1935.
QuoteJohn Bowden Connally, Jr. (February 27, 1917 â€" June 15, 1993), was an influential American politician, serving as the 39th Governor of Texas, Secretary of the Navy under President John F. Kennedy... While he was Governor in 1963, Connally was a passenger in the car in which President Kennedy was assassinated. Connally was seriously wounded during the incident.
QuoteGeorge Corley Wallace, Jr. (August 25, 1919 â€" September 13, 1998) was the 45th Governor of Alabama. A 1972 assassination attempt left him paralyzed; he used a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Wallace was shot five times by Arthur Bremer while campaigning in Laurel, Maryland, on May 15, 1972, at a time when he was receiving high ratings in the opinion polls. Bremer was seen at a Wallace rally in Wheaton, Maryland, earlier that day and two days earlier at a rally in Dearborn, Michigan. As one of the bullets lodged in Wallace's spinal column, Wallace was left paralyzed from the waist down. Three others were wounded in the shooting and also survived. Bremer's diary, An Assassin's Diary, published after his arrest shows the assassination attempt was motivated by a desire for fame, not by politics, and that President Nixon had been an earlier target.
I know as much as he is disliked in many circles, Governor Scott worries the shit out of me. Something like one of these historical attempts is all we need to set Florida the rest of the way back to the stone age. OCKLAWAHA
When are you people going to learn that republicans have nothing to do with anything public...this man is going to sell this state to the closest friend and fuck us all....i call for a recall of our public "servant"...where do i sign?
Then on the flip side, Blodgett just got a new fancy stucco sign and landscaping....I can think of better expenditures of those funds, like maybe bringing back the childrens library at Brentwood?????
Wow this just keeps getting better and better. This state is screwed for four years (hopefully)
WWJD
Aren't public housing and homeless funding two different things? Seems to me that Mr. Woods is making a stretch to equate public housing projects with homeless shelters.
Quote from: JMac on March 28, 2011, 10:25:16 AM
Aren't public housing and homeless funding two different things? Seems to me that Mr. Woods is making a stretch to equate public housing projects with homeless shelters.
Fair enough, but it isn't a very long stretch from public housing to homelessness in reality.
I would say it's fairly hypocritical on the part of our esteemed Governor.
Public assistance was okay for his family, but not for mine.
Almost Orwellian.
I am certainly not cheering for public housing to be removed from the budget as there is a definite need. But social programs were originally put in place to get people back on their feet, not to be a longterm solution. The real answer is education and jobs, and in some cases people will have to be forced to do for themselves by limiting the term of assistance. BUT we need to have the system and options in place to get people going down the right path, and not having this initial saftey net is an issue.
Quote from: uptowngirl on March 28, 2011, 11:09:44 AM
I am certainly not cheering for public housing to be removed from the budget as there is a definite need. But social programs were originally put in place to get people back on their feet, not to be a longterm solution. The real answer is education and jobs, and in some cases people will have to be forced to do for themselves by limiting the term of assistance. BUT we need to have the system and options in place to get people going down the right path, and not having this initial saftey net is an issue.
7 million within a State of Florida budget is miniscule.
We spend quite a bit more than that just cycling the homeless and vagrants through our jails.
I'd be willing to bet just here in Jax.
Quote from: buckethead on March 28, 2011, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on March 28, 2011, 11:09:44 AM
I am certainly not cheering for public housing to be removed from the budget as there is a definite need. But social programs were originally put in place to get people back on their feet, not to be a longterm solution. The real answer is education and jobs, and in some cases people will have to be forced to do for themselves by limiting the term of assistance. BUT we need to have the system and options in place to get people going down the right path, and not having this initial saftey net is an issue.
7 million within a State of Florida budget is miniscule.
We spend quite a bit more than that just cycling the homeless and vagrants through our jails.
I'd be willing to bet just here in Jax.
I do not disagree, I would like to see less longterm public housing and more education and job assistance so people can stand on their own two feet. This serves multiple purposes- pride in self, reduction in costs to the tax payers, and a legacy to future generations to expect more. If he wants to cut public housing, how does he plan on accomplishing the real long term goal?
Quote from: uptowngirl on March 28, 2011, 11:09:44 AM
I am certainly not cheering for public housing to be removed from the budget as there is a definite need. But social programs were originally put in place to get people back on their feet, not to be a longterm solution. The real answer is education and jobs, and in some cases people will have to be forced to do for themselves by limiting the term of assistance. BUT we need to have the system and options in place to get people going down the right path, and not having this initial saftey net is an issue.
There are times when some people are going to find it impossible to "get back on their feet." Good muscle and weak brain in a era of mechanization and technology, physical handicap, or being a 55 year old buggy whip weaver when Henry Ford comes along. Too old to retrain and start over, to young to retire.
We are always going to need a social safety net and there will always be people who will take advantage of it to lazily bump along on the bottom of life.
I guess we could do what they do in India. The rich and middle class provide food, shelter and an occasional tip to destitute families in return for groveling personal service. I've seen it. It's ugly.
I bet you complaints 20 to 1 that the weakest in our society are getting some benefit compared to large multinationals or wealthy taking advantage of the system. If you ask people on some rant about it they will concede that they do not want the big guy to get away with anything either but for the most part does not seem to inspire the kind of vitriol that a poor man getting a tiny something will.
QuoteQuite a fellow.
WOW, such great ideas to complain rather than dig in and look for areas to cut and save. Its the old analogy, cut anything as long as it does not affect me, or not in my backyard. The guy has to cut 4 billion for this year.
What do you cut, what do you keep? How about some ideas here instead of the same old whining?
QuoteAh yes, cutting.
Well that makes sense. And its driven the country to municipal bankruptcies from east coast to west coast.
Ah yes... well then dont cut. Perhaps we should raise taxes?
QuoteAnd its driven the country to municipal bankruptcies from east coast to west coast.
I know you are just itching to say it, say the Golden State, come on?
The American Dream is alive and well, perhaps I see more opportunity on a daily basis than you and others who funnel the drivel from CNN and online news. Smart people turn off that drivel and realize that people to people interaction, solving problems one on one with people, its happening all around us, but too many people look at life and the country as half empty or nearly empty. That's not the case to those of us who have seen problems and the American people overcome them and persevere. Bury the head if you will, I choose to see the positives.
Quote from: stephendare on March 28, 2011, 06:52:35 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 28, 2011, 06:46:32 PM
QuoteAh yes, cutting.
Well that makes sense. And its driven the country to municipal bankruptcies from east coast to west coast.
Ah yes... well then dont cut. Perhaps we should raise taxes?
Um yeah. Bridge Troll. Pay the debt before it doubles with interest payments.
What is so difficult for you 'conservative' types to understand about that?
Hey... I get it... Mr Obama is the one you should be talking to...
QuoteUm yeah. Bridge Troll. Pay the debt before it doubles with interest payments.
What is so difficult for you 'conservative' types to understand about that?
Stephen, are you just looking to destroy all the incentives to open a business here in the United States? 14 trillion and counting, we have 2 wars going on and a conflict now in Libya, we send money around the globe, like we can just make more, which we do. Has our financial policy improved since Obama has taken office, more of the same or frighteningly, just worsened? I think the latter. Perhaps that is the news story that no one pays attention to, unless its election season, then its news for 5 minutes until we have another TMZ story.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 28, 2011, 06:19:06 PM
QuoteQuite a fellow.
WOW, such great ideas to complain rather than dig in and look for areas to cut and save. Its the old analogy, cut anything as long as it does not affect me, or not in my backyard. The guy has to cut 4 billion for this year.
What do you cut, what do you keep? How about some ideas here instead of the same old whining?
\
I would cut the tax breaks. In a low tax state the tax breaks do not offer much to stimulate our economy where as the revenue is very useful.
QuoteYou were pretty vicious about it actually.
Pot calling the kettle black????
Vicious? Friendly bantering perhaps...
Quotehysterically claiming
More like rationalizing an issue with left wing extremist who see the end of the world is near. I don't share your view. Sorry.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/936full-the-grapes-of-wrath-poster.jpg)
We also have a huge problem associated with failing schools, that translates into graduates that cannot read and write. How's that working out for us? Just another huge sector of society which will either choose the hard road and get the missing education or take the route of less resistance and fall in with homeless, and possibly even a criminal element. Fatherless families, illegitimate children, absentee parents, malnutrition, disease infected and bug infested futures. Let's just dump this entire population on the street with ZERO assistance, that'll teach them!
Then lets then consider the retarded? the autistic? the dyslexic? the hearing impaired? vision impaired? and myriad other handicaps.
Then you have other special needs populations, victims that don't even know they are victims? Bagley & Young did a study and found that 73% of all prostitutes were molested or sexually trafficked as children, compared with 29% in the general population... So what shall we do with them? A couple of years ago an element on these boards was suggesting paint balloons, searchlights and ball bearing sling shots. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/grapes2-1.jpg)
Could it be that RICK SCOTT was posting under an unknown pen name?
Quote(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/judenfrei_neu.jpg)
Quote from: stephendare on March 28, 2011, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 28, 2011, 06:59:03 PM
QuoteUm yeah. Bridge Troll. Pay the debt before it doubles with interest payments.
What is so difficult for you 'conservative' types to understand about that?
Stephen, are you just looking to destroy all the incentives to open a business here in the United States? 14 trillion and counting, we have 2 wars going on and a conflict now in Libya, we send money around the globe, like we can just make more, which we do. Has our financial policy improved since Obama has taken office, more of the same or frighteningly, just worsened? I think the latter. Perhaps that is the news story that no one pays attention to, unless its election season, then its news for 5 minutes until we have another TMZ story.
Hmm. I seem to remember that you supported those two wars and called people names who didnt agree with you Mtrain. You were pretty vicious about it actually. So would that mean that the last time you had a big idea, it was financially disastrous (as you are now claiming)?
Well thats awesome, I suppose. Nice to hear it after four years of you hysterically claiming the exact opposite.
So after the policies you championed created these 14 trillion dollar debts, you think we should just keep up with the same ideas?
This sounds like the definition of something frankly.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Misattributed to various people, including Albert Einstein and Mark Twain. The earliest known occurrence, and probable origin is Rita Mae Brown, Sudden Death (Bantam Books, New York, 1983), p. 68.
I will repeat how I feel about all of this. All we hear about are cuts, cuts, cuts. But has anyone other than me noticed that the only cuts that large corporations and the wealthy have had to be inconvenienced with is a cut in their taxes? Talk about unsustainable. The conservative plague HAS NOT WORKED. The stupid tax cuts that have occurred in Florida in the last 12 or so years have made the state worse off than ever. mtraininjax, this ain't whining baby, this is fact! And never talk about the abuse of the system by the poor, because you are a liar if you believe the corporations and the wealthy don't abuse the system as much. NEVER forget that Mr Scott's family gratefully lived on government assistance to make it through. He is a disgusting hypocrite. And NEVER forget MUCH of his wealth came out of YOUR tax money. He robbed you and me. He has been living a privileged life off the fat of the government. So there is your example of abuse of the system.
The tax code needs to change, any American company offshoring/nearshoring needs to pay a "special tax" a HIGHER tax. Since they are saving so much money by utilizing workers from third world countries they should be paying a portion of that SVA into the tax coffers. Working offshore/nearshore is an incredible pain in the rear end so if these companies are not making a HUGE profit on it they will give it up and more Americans will have jobs. I have no idea how many jobs are actually offshored by I bet the number is in the millions. Millions of American's back to work, more tax revenue, better educational systems (because a LOT of these jobs are not factory jobs), more opportunity for everyone.
Quit whining about foodstamps, public housing, health care, part time benefits, and whether a woman needs a sonogram to get an abortion, and START driving real change that makes a lot of these favorite topics a mute point. Where is this Change we were all promised? This one simple change could really make huge differences in the average American's life.
Our local big employers City Bank probably has more employees in india than they have in the usa...it's rediculous.
Quote from: Garden guy on March 29, 2011, 08:29:01 AM
Our local big employers City Bank probably has more employees in india than they have in the usa...it's rediculous.
Most (if not all) are not Citibank employees actually. Most of them are contractors for companies like AT&T and IBM. Comcast has a big overseas presence as well. I have been to the areas outside of New Delhi where they have these call centers. There are entire towns that are nothing but office buildings housing call centers for American companies. Most are behind security fences and all of the employees are bussed in from the heavily populated areas. It is sort of surreal.
Quote from: avonjax on March 28, 2011, 11:28:51 PM
I will repeat how I feel about all of this. All we hear about are cuts, cuts, cuts. But has anyone other than me noticed that the only cuts that large corporations and the wealthy have had to be inconvenienced with is a cut in their taxes? Talk about unsustainable. The conservative plague HAS NOT WORKED. The stupid tax cuts that have occurred in Florida in the last 12 or so years have made the state worse off than ever. mtraininjax, this ain't whining baby, this is fact! And never talk about the abuse of the system by the poor, because you are a liar if you believe the corporations and the wealthy don't abuse the system as much. NEVER forget that Mr Scott's family gratefully lived on government assistance to make it through. He is a disgusting hypocrite. And NEVER forget MUCH of his wealth came out of YOUR tax money. He robbed you and me. He has been living a privileged life off the fat of the government. So there is your example of abuse of the system.
Again, very well said! Except you left out that the abuse of the system by the ultra-wealthy and corporations is on a much larger scale in terms of costs to our society than what our safety net for the poor costs.
Those who diss on the poor primarily do so because they are too insecure to feel good about themselves............it's an old psychological trick to put others down to feel better about oneself!
Thanks Ock for bringing up a primary reason for poverty: physical disability and mental disability and old age. Things they have no contrtol over........the forgotten.
In closing I want to say that
Rick Scott is the biggest Welfare Queen in the history of the US. First he used our safety net, then he ripped off our seniors for personal gain. What a sick puppy!!!!
I will have to ask you though...............which cost our society more?
Quote1. Rick Scott's family using our safety net
or
2. Rick Scott ripping off our seniors
Ah, you are starting to see the much larger scale damage done by high-level/white collar crime now?
Dissing on the poor has just been a way to distract you from the whole-sale robbing of our nation by the ultra-wealthy and corporations.
Don't believe me?
Here is one more item to make this abundantly clear:
Quote
the share of U.S. taxes paid by corporations has fallen from 30 percent of federal revenue in the 1950s to 6.6 percent in 2009
Why do Republicans continue to wage a
War on Women and Workers instead of looking for REAL revenue sources?:
1. Corporations
2. Ultra-wealthy
Quotethe share of U.S. taxes paid by corporations has fallen from 30 percent of federal revenue in the 1950s to 6.6 percent in 2009
Why Faye?
Corporations are owned by ordinary people, who, by the way, pay taxes on dividends and capital gains. I don't understand the left's anti-corporate hardon.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 30, 2011, 08:13:43 AM
Quotethe share of U.S. taxes paid by corporations has fallen from 30 percent of federal revenue in the 1950s to 6.6 percent in 2009
Why Faye?
Well, let me first explain the currently intensified
War on Women and WorkersQuoteMeet ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council, a national right-wing group that writes "model" legislation for its members. Who are its members? Republican state legislators and private organizations (think ExxonMobil).
Because ALEC is very secretive, only members get to know who its members are, what goes on at meetings, and what legislation is being authored and pushed.
QuoteThe nearest analog to ALEC that I’m aware of on the left is the Progressive States Network, whose website can be perused at
http://www.progressivestates.org/
but PSN was only founded in 2005, does not mainly focus on writing model legislation, and is not as well organized or as disciplined as ALEC.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,11565.0.html
As to corporations shirking their societal duties to pay taxes, after all, taxes are the price you pay to live and do business in a civilized society........
That all started with the conservative resurgence of which Reagan was part ( he was a highly paid sales person for GE, something many of you may have forgotten)
Quoteafter the Goldwater defeat in 1964, visionary conservative leaders began to build a series of organizations and networks designed to promote their values and construct systematic strategies for sympathetic politicians. Some of these organizations are reasonably well knownâ€"for instance, the Heritage Foundation, founded in 1973 by Paul Weyrich, a Racine native and UW-Madison alumnus who also started the Moral Majority and whose importance to the movement is almost impossible to overestimateâ€"but many of these groups remain largely invisible.
That’s why events like the ones we’ve just experienced in Wisconsin can seem to come out of nowhere. Few outside the conservative movement have been paying much attention, and that is ill-advised.
Again from Professor William Cronon:
QuoteALEC’s efforts to disenfranchise voters likely to vote Democratic, for instance, and its efforts to destroy public-sector unions because they also tend to favor Democrats, strike me as objectionable and anti-democratic (as opposed to anti-Democratic) on their face. As a pragmatic centrist in my own politics, I very strongly favor seeking the public good from both sides of the partisan aisle, and it’s not at all clear to me that recent legislation in Wisconsin or elsewhere can be defended as doing this. Shining a bright light on ALEC’s activities (and on other groups as well, across the political spectrum) thus seems to me a valuable thing to do whether or not one favors its political goals.
One of the first things Rick Scott did was:
QuoteRick Scott reintroduced Florida to Jim Crow-style voting laws, which essentially disenfranchise a large percentage of African Americans and just so happen to boost Scott's chances at reelection. The law brought back draconian restrictions on felon's voting rights that Florida's two previous governors worked to reform.
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/juice/2011/03/rick_scott_naacp_felons_voting.php
I'm surprised that you believe imposing a five year waiting period on felons equates to racism, Faye. It is a racist though in and of itself to suggest that one race is more likely to be felonious than another.
Furthermore, why would you believe that a republican criminal would not want to empower his fellow criminals to garner more votes? Surely, convicted felons don't tend towards Democrats!
Quote from: FayeforCure on March 30, 2011, 08:41:37 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 30, 2011, 08:13:43 AM
Quotethe share of U.S. taxes paid by corporations has fallen from 30 percent of federal revenue in the 1950s to 6.6 percent in 2009
Why Faye?
Well, let me first explain the currently intensified War on Women and Workers
QuoteMeet ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council, a national right-wing group that writes "model" legislation for its members. Who are its members? Republican state legislators and private organizations (think ExxonMobil).
Because ALEC is very secretive, only members get to know who its members are, what goes on at meetings, and what legislation is being authored and pushed.
QuoteThe nearest analog to ALEC that I’m aware of on the left is the Progressive States Network, whose website can be perused at
http://www.progressivestates.org/
but PSN was only founded in 2005, does not mainly focus on writing model legislation, and is not as well organized or as disciplined as ALEC.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,11565.0.html
As to corporations shirking their societal duties to pay taxes, after all, taxes are the price you pay to live and do business in a civilized society........
That all started with the conservative resurgence of which Reagan was part ( he was a highly paid sales person for GE, something many of you may have forgotten)
Quoteafter the Goldwater defeat in 1964, visionary conservative leaders began to build a series of organizations and networks designed to promote their values and construct systematic strategies for sympathetic politicians. Some of these organizations are reasonably well known–for instance, the Heritage Foundation, founded in 1973 by Paul Weyrich, a Racine native and UW-Madison alumnus who also started the Moral Majority and whose importance to the movement is almost impossible to overestimate–but many of these groups remain largely invisible.
That’s why events like the ones we’ve just experienced in Wisconsin can seem to come out of nowhere. Few outside the conservative movement have been paying much attention, and that is ill-advised.
Again from Professor William Cronon:
QuoteALEC’s efforts to disenfranchise voters likely to vote Democratic, for instance, and its efforts to destroy public-sector unions because they also tend to favor Democrats, strike me as objectionable and anti-democratic (as opposed to anti-Democratic) on their face. As a pragmatic centrist in my own politics, I very strongly favor seeking the public good from both sides of the partisan aisle, and it’s not at all clear to me that recent legislation in Wisconsin or elsewhere can be defended as doing this. Shining a bright light on ALEC’s activities (and on other groups as well, across the political spectrum) thus seems to me a valuable thing to do whether or not one favors its political goals.
One of the first things Rick Scott did was:
QuoteRick Scott reintroduced Florida to Jim Crow-style voting laws, which essentially disenfranchise a large percentage of African Americans and just so happen to boost Scott's chances at reelection. The law brought back draconian restrictions on felon's voting rights that Florida's two previous governors worked to reform.
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/juice/2011/03/rick_scott_naacp_felons_voting.php
Good God Faye.................. all of the above has NOTHING to do with Corporations not paying taxes!! F-O-C-U-S...
Quote from: JMac on March 30, 2011, 08:37:18 AM
Corporations are owned by ordinary people, who, by the way, pay taxes on dividends and capital gains. I don't understand the left's anti-corporate hardon.
i really have hard feelings towards corporations just recently aggravated by the nytimes story about GEs not paying taxes. I profoundly believe in (ULTRA-liberal) Noan Chomskys definition of corporations as an individual as "if a corporation was an individual, they would be classified as sociopath and in a mental hospital." But JMacs quote is true. Not to mention the charitable causes all corporations give to with billions involved, albeit most is generated by govt tax incentives. A lot of which is in the arts. I guess necessary evil is a phrase i could use. i think this is what rep. Rangel is thinking and doing.
I get disgusted when i hear of so much injustices done by corporations, especially the 2008 meltdown, but its just something i (as an american) have to accept.
"Democracy is terrible!!!! But its the best we got." W.S. Churchill
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 30, 2011, 08:13:43 AM
Quotethe share of U.S. taxes paid by corporations has fallen from 30 percent of federal revenue in the 1950s to 6.6 percent in 2009
Why Faye?
My guess would be the proliferation of loopholes, the diminishing of tarrifs and other restrictions allowing corporations to move opperations and claim their profits elsewhere.
Quote from: JeffreyS on March 30, 2011, 02:42:39 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 30, 2011, 08:13:43 AM
Quotethe share of U.S. taxes paid by corporations has fallen from 30 percent of federal revenue in the 1950s to 6.6 percent in 2009
Why Faye?
My guess would be the proliferation of loopholes, the diminishing of tarrifs and other restrictions allowing corporations to move opperations and claim their profits elsewhere.
That would be my guess also. I 'm pretty sure Stephen mentioned in another thread that those tax loopholes for corporations are actually
beneficial to society and must be carefully considered before closing them.
I would guess that technically he is correct. I just think the standard of what good you have to do to get a tax break has been severely watered down.
Should a corporation be free to move operations offshore?
YES. (and they are)
What needs to happen is for them to be better off keeping operations within the States.
Policy needs to reflect a national desire to retain manufacturing (and other jobs/businesses) here, and encouraging companies to open shop within the borders.
Tariffs are a good idea. Favorable tax policy is another. I don't want to be the nation known for slave wages, however.
It occurs to me, a professed simpleton, that the Fair Tax is the way to achieve these goals.
DW mentioned the VAT, which he claimed promoted quality over mass produced "throw away" products.
I have an ingrained fear of a VAT due to it's obscure, layered nature. Perhaps a vestige of my self indoctrination into the neocon empire.
Somebody feel free to convince me otherwise.