So can we say that this town is rulled by church and oil companies (Gate?)?
Seems like all downtown projects are more or less havign hard time getting developed and with that URBAN lifestyle which meas less spent gas and that equals less profits.
Same with transit development.
Only thing in Jax that gets accomplished are projects designed for suburban lifestyle and that means profit for people involved in oil business primarly but also all buisnesses related to suburban living (and they are many).
Imagine 50 people riding on public transit that automaticly takes 50 cars of street and if every car averages $10 per week,that is $500,$2000 for month or $24000...and that is only for $10 for 50 people.
I think Jax metro has about half of million of cars on street.
Everythign comes down to money and like I said nothing will change in Jacksonville in next 20 years,just get bigger and more suburban...well except traffic will get worse.
Umm but even more traffic means more profit for oil business,imagine all those cars stuck on road burning and wasting gas or just sitting on red traffic light that is not properly synchronized.
$$$$$
Now that I think of it,I should get my own gas station.
Because of greed and/or stupidity, people will do things that are untimately not in their own best intertests. I hate gated communities because there should never have been a reason to have them in the first place, and those inside usually think of themselves before anyone else, ever.
The reason there are so many gray areas is because the white purity of good has been compromised by the black rot of corruption. Things are really more of a yes/no either/or thing.
While I myself am a shade of gray, I am adding Titanium Dioxide all the time, and hope the sunshine and some other elements I choose to live in and with have a bleaching effect.
YES this city is run by money over morality.
You just have to ask yourself what shade you want to be.
Who?Me?
I am like gray with white dots.
No,seriously how anyone in Jacksonville can expect any urban or transit development if they don't understand that city is driven by church and oil business and if that does not change or at least adjust Jacksonville will never progress with proper urban lifestyle with developed mass transit.
Everything else is just wast of time,all those reports how others cities did this or that and proposing solutions will not matter to anyone in Jax city governement.
Why would they allow functional mass transit to develop in Jacksonville if that will mean loss of profit in oil business?They will do anything either to stop it or make it disfunctional...like expensive sytem that will not solve anything over long period of time (like 20 years)..sounds familiar?
Only thing we should worry about is what brand of car to buy.
I should join Republican party I need newer and fancier car.
I would never be able to do that, see my color?????
Although This is sometimes where I fall......
but never.....never ever never.....RED
Yes, Jax is run by people with a suburban minded mentality but I'm not ready to say there's a conspiracy to ruin downtown or urban development. The suburbs are suffering just like downtown is, we just don't hear as much about it.
When you have a class of people who realize that the "lower" classes can have microwaves and cable and everything they have, just less and not as nice, they want to not only be "one better", but destroy other as part of the process.
Think of this... you're a "type A" CEO or COO and you negotiate mega bucks, and go to something like Sea and Sky like we're having this weekend.
You get there in a Lexus or Benz, and someone pulls and parks next to you with a Kia that looks just as good. You see someone YOU KNOW makes way less than you, and your counterpart from "the masses" is wearing the same shirt as you, driving a car that looks like yours, and is entering the same restaurant as you.....
What is the sense of doing better and winning over the poor and lower classes?
If you can't accept that, then you want to destroy them and create a gap between you both, just because you want to feel better about yourself.... so you put pressure on the lower and especially middle classes.
It truly is not enough to get multi-mollion dollar packages and own three yachts, if Joe-Blow can bring his $30,000 Bayliner that he makes payments on right next to your $3,000,000 yacht to fuel up.
You need to step on him, keep him off "your" water... out of your clubs, and unable to eat at your restaurants....
and you don't mind a class of ultra wealthy to play golf with... but they have to earn it by birthright or favors or dirty deals as well... maybe even a few by hard work... but not by merit or quality of character.
So do they conspire to do this, or maybe unaware themselves make decisions that favor them and not us, the middle and lower classes?
Do you honestly think CEO's and Peytons and other untra-rich feel any sense of obligation to society?
Do you think they care if we have light rail shooting down JTB to save personal and social resources? Do you really feel they care if Station Five stay as a mueseum and safety teaching center for kids if their kids have to share it? Class strugle has shifted to silent mode, silent to debate or conscience or social action. They may feel "upset", write a check that is a fraction of their wealth and a week's or month's pay to someone else, and then absolve themselves of their "responsibility".
It is based on human greed, and has shifted from doing one better to knocking the next guy down, because everyone else has the ability to have similar conforts and rewards as they do.
In this post Reagan landscape, mitigated by Clinton and now excelled by Bush, it isn't rewarding just to do well, but to deny the basic comforts and luxuries now shared by those of lesser "social status"
They are unaware that they conspire, because they have no concern for those below them, so they will do everything they can to attain more wealth than they could ever use...
by denial of equality by actions and inactions to make the world better, more even for everyone, they take one more step up, upon our backs. They would extend Craig right into "protected" neighborhoods just to save an ectra 20 minute drive, make the taxpayer pay for it, and smirk on the ride home in a $80,000 car, after leaving their corporate or private jet.
But I think they don't even realize they are doing it themselves....
they don't have the ability or conscience to see it, just to do it.
When the world realizes that we all do better when everything is done right the first time then, and only then, can things ever change....
and the very few at the top that understand this, are at the top, and want to look down upon us, not in our eyes... it defeats the purpose of "winning" to them.
So I agree, but it isn't JUST the church and oil companies. It is the untra-"haves". I see so many great transit ideas on here.... things so simple to call right that a monkey could make the right choice. But remember, you are dealing with people who simply don't care about who is below them, and want the "others" to stay below them.
That was pretty deep. Talk about getting to the root of the problem.
Read my "Dirty Deals" post... see how much Fullwood got between Fidelity and The Hardens alone! I think they think they are doing good by dressing up their own back yard and developing to make money, but at what expense does it come???
How about the concept that very few people want to live downtown, no conspiracy needed, no evil oil companies. How about the concept that people do in fact enjoy their 1/4 to 1 acre lots , regardless of the marxist clap trap posted above, and don't want to be shoved against one another in an urban desert like downtown jax?
I want to live downtown... Yes, it's not right to pay attention to one and ignore the other, but you have to admit there are many options for living the suburban life in Jacksonville. You can go to any side of town and those areas are supported by the 'necessities'. Downtown Jax still lakes a decent grocery store, no late night dining options, few options for shopping and entertainment. The only 'business' that blossoms downtown right now is the Baptist church. So the question is why is downtown's lack being ignored?
Quote from: civil42806 on September 28, 2008, 09:00:07 PM
How about the concept that very few people want to live downtown, no conspiracy needed, no evil oil companies. How about the concept that people do in fact enjoy their 1/4 to 1 acre lots , regardless of the marxist clap trap posted above, and don't want to be shoved against one another in an urban desert like downtown jax?
and compare our downtown to almost any downtown with a MSA population greater than 100,000 - it's pathetic.
Couple of OCK-VER-VATIONSQuoteHow about the concept that very few people want to live downtown, no conspiracy needed, no evil oil companies. How about the concept that people do in fact enjoy their 1/4 to 1 acre lots , regardless of the marxist clap trap posted above, and don't want to be shoved against one another in an urban desert like downtown jax?
Oh my GOD! I'm I agreeing with civil? Yeah, I am. I'm the resident Mass Transit Monster, and love my fancy urban digs in Medellin, Colombia. Downtown Jax, with it's skyline is even more beautiful. So do I want a place in the Strand? Well... I also grew up in the deep South, Old Ortega, Ortega Forest and Yukon, stomping through nearly virgin pine woods and the Ortega River back water. My ideal? Have 20 acres somewhere out in the rolling hills as close in as possible and still wild and affordable... Middleburg maybe? Keystone? Kingsley Lake? Starke? Some place to canoe, plant a garden and lots of flowers and fruit trees. Are there any places like that on tap for our Commuter Rail? Maybe. Still a bit remote but Macclenny and even Gainesville might come into the game. That would allow me to LIVE MY DREAM and still have the urban core I love to play in.
But like Colombia, maybe a pad at the Strand and a little farm would be cool too? But I'm not rich...
As for church, what gives with the FIRST BAPTIST stuff here? Okay so they have a highly successful church, and manage to bring 15,000 people into town every week or several times a week. If these that are crying would get off their dead butts and do something about it maybe we'd be thinking of how to bring that crowd into your downtown venues??? Book stores, gift shops, family oriented entertainment, restaurants, programs that co-op with the church. Make yourselves open to the pastors and staff and let them know you'll provide the show, the dinner, the fun, whatever it takes. I don't care if this was FBC or some Unity, Jehovahs Witness, Mormon, Buddhist temple, or mosque. Be Americans and figure a way to make the great melting pot feed your family. Damn folks, last time I drove by FBC, I saw, SKYWALKS, FOUNTAINS, LIBRARY, MISSION and at 5:00 pm a host of aparent nearly-homeless came out the doors wearing staff uniforms, painters, maids, helpers etc... I wish we had another dozen FBC's downtown. First BUDDHIST, First ISLAMIC, First HEBREW... at least THERE sidewalks are clean, buildings attractive and they are following the City plans laid out back under Jake Godbolds development visions. You would do well to remember that ANY REGLIGION with a church serves as a "Hospital for Hippocrates - rather then - a Museum for Saints."
Lastly, YOU WILL BE AMAZED at the stuff that is going to roll out of JTA in the coming months, and "God Willing" I'll be part of it. Now if you really want to read about conspiracy and how it works in this and other cities, try my article on the "GREAT STREETCAR HOLOCAUST CONSPIRACY" in my jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com site. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/OcklawahaSignature.jpg)
Quote from: civil42806 on September 28, 2008, 09:00:07 PM
How about the concept that very few people want to live downtown, no conspiracy needed, no evil oil companies. How about the concept that people do in fact enjoy their 1/4 to 1 acre lots , regardless of the marxist clap trap posted above, and don't want to be shoved against one another in an urban desert like downtown jax?
LOL, well life is about options. Not everyone wants to drive the big SUV & have the big house out in the sticks, that option DOES exist in Jax, but the affordable apartment complex near a train station that connects to downtown DOES NOT exist. I don't think the founders of this forum want the SUV guy in Mandarin to move downtown, but would like the option of "urban train riding guy" to be able to go
SOME places with out having to gas up. Its only
FAIR.
Quote from: Coolyfett on September 29, 2008, 10:25:18 AM
Quote from: civil42806 on September 28, 2008, 09:00:07 PM
How about the concept that very few people want to live downtown, no conspiracy needed, no evil oil companies. How about the concept that people do in fact enjoy their 1/4 to 1 acre lots , regardless of the marxist clap trap posted above, and don't want to be shoved against one another in an urban desert like downtown jax?
LOL, well life is about options. Not everyone wants to drive the big SUV & have the big house out in the sticks, that option DOES exist in Jax, but the affordable apartment complex near a train station that connects to downtown DOES NOT exist. I don't think the founders of this forum want the SUV guy in Mandarin to move downtown, but would like the option of "urban train riding guy" to be able to go SOME places with out having to gas up. Its only FAIR.
the urbanistas that want to turn JAX into an urban utopia should consider using their energy to engineer a way that they can move to place where all the urban amenities exist. I voted with my feet by moving to NE FLA, they too can can find a metropolis that suits them much easier than trying to transform JAX into what THEY think would make it great
Quote from: apvbguy on September 29, 2008, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: Coolyfett on September 29, 2008, 10:25:18 AM
Quote from: civil42806 on September 28, 2008, 09:00:07 PM
How about the concept that very few people want to live downtown, no conspiracy needed, no evil oil companies. How about the concept that people do in fact enjoy their 1/4 to 1 acre lots , regardless of the marxist clap trap posted above, and don't want to be shoved against one another in an urban desert like downtown jax?
LOL, well life is about options. Not everyone wants to drive the big SUV & have the big house out in the sticks, that option DOES exist in Jax, but the affordable apartment complex near a train station that connects to downtown DOES NOT exist. I don't think the founders of this forum want the SUV guy in Mandarin to move downtown, but would like the option of "urban train riding guy" to be able to go SOME places with out having to gas up. Its only FAIR.
the urbanistas that want to turn JAX into an urban utopia should consider using their energy to engineer a way that they can move to place where all the urban amenities exist. I voted with my feet by moving to NE FLA, they too can can find a metropolis that suits them much easier than trying to transform JAX into what THEY think would make it great
LOL yep
Quotethe urbanistas that want to turn JAX into an urban utopia should consider using their energy to engineer a way that they can move to place where all the urban amenities exist. I voted with my feet by moving to NE FLA, they too can can find a metropolis that suits them much easier than trying to transform JAX into what THEY think would make it great
So let me get this straight. You moved here from NJ or some other place I'd consider a "Hell Hole", and NOTHING that is good about NJ should ever enter your life again? Because you wanted to move to a smaller scale City that is booming at 15% growth, while your home state rusts away, you feel the licence to boot us out of town, or off the boards, if you must pay a penny to improve our lifestyles? Those of us that grew up here, know we are on the march toward greatness, and we're willing to pay the price so we don't repeat the mistakes of our Yankee cousins. Yet we should learn from the good in all places ever reaching for the top bar.
If you REALLY want to sit forever in 1800, I can suggest some religious communities in Maryland, or better yet, outside of tiny and isolated Nuqui, Colombia... (oops that won't work there's a new highway heading right for that beach!)
Waiting to ride that train, I'll even buy your ticket Apvbguy!(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/lightningandTRACTION-1-1.jpg)
Quote from: apvbguy on September 29, 2008, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: Coolyfett on September 29, 2008, 10:25:18 AM
Quote from: civil42806 on September 28, 2008, 09:00:07 PM
How about the concept that very few people want to live downtown, no conspiracy needed, no evil oil companies. How about the concept that people do in fact enjoy their 1/4 to 1 acre lots , regardless of the marxist clap trap posted above, and don't want to be shoved against one another in an urban desert like downtown jax?
LOL, well life is about options. Not everyone wants to drive the big SUV & have the big house out in the sticks, that option DOES exist in Jax, but the affordable apartment complex near a train station that connects to downtown DOES NOT exist. I don't think the founders of this forum want the SUV guy in Mandarin to move downtown, but would like the option of "urban train riding guy" to be able to go SOME places with out having to gas up. Its only FAIR.
the urbanistas that want to turn JAX into an urban utopia should consider using their energy to engineer a way that they can move to place where all the urban amenities exist. I voted with my feet by moving to NE FLA, they too can can find a metropolis that suits them much easier than trying to transform JAX into what THEY think would make it great
Is that one of those "if you don't like it then move" comments? Just curious if thats what that was, if so it is hilarious. LOL ROFLMAO!
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 29, 2008, 12:27:47 PM
So let me get this straight. You moved here from NJ or some other place I'd consider a "Hell Hole", and NOTHING that is good about NJ should ever enter your life again? Because you wanted to move to a smaller scale City that is booming at 15% growth, while your home state rusts away, you feel the licence to boot us out of town, or off the boards, if you must pay a penny to improve our lifestyles? Those of us that grew up here, know we are on the march toward greatness, and we're willing to pay the price so we don't repeat the mistakes of our Yankee cousins. Yet we should learn from the good in all places ever reaching for the top bar.
hahaha, if you become like a northern city then it is inevitable that you will repeat their mistakes! and then you'll have JAX become the hell hole like those you refer to.
It is the small minded jingoistic nonsense like yours that is a part of the problem here, not people who have moved here and have shunned the core.
Too bad you are so against people who don't share your views, spouting nonsense like "if you don't agree with my version just leave", well ockie whether you like it or not I'll leave when I damned well chose to and while I am here I will interject my opinions and ideas and if you don't like it, that is just too damned bad.
Now to correct your misunderstandings,
I am not saying that booting anyone out of town is the answer, too bad that's how you see it, too bad you have an all or nothing approach to things, too bad you are so intolerant of opinions that don't sound just like yours. the way I see it is that it is the urbanistas who are always whining about how bad things in JAX are.
some the usual complaints are that there's nothing to do, there's nowhere to go and no way to get there.
I suggested that if JAX is so horrible that all the energies being expended by y'all to try and turn JAX an "urban utopia" were used to figure out how y'all can just go to a place where your utopian concepts are already in place, you be able to just go there and live the hip urban lifestyle, ride the buses and subways, live life the way you guys think it should be lived, go, go find your dream place. Have a blast, see ya!
Now I am new to JAX and I have accepted it for what it is, it is far from perfect but the vast majority of people are ok with JAX and the surrounding areas just the way it is.
it would be quite presumptuous for someone like me to move here and then bark orders on how to change the place in order to suit my views of a perfect place.
JAX is what it is and I deal with it.
if I wasn't ok with JAX being what it is, I didn't have to locate here, I could have landed elsewhere.
That said there are things that can be down to enhance the viability of the core, but people like you who harbor such animosities for people who aren't in lockstep with your visions are a huge impediment to any improvements ever happening. Many if you need to grow up and learn how to effect real change, what you guys are doing will never work.
How many people at city hall talk to you? even you admit they view you as a kook, and if I were in their place I'd think the same. One day you'll grow up and learn how to play nice, then and only then will you have a shot at making things happen.
by the way what time does that ferry from NYC to AC leave?
QuoteQuoteSo let me get this straight. You moved here from NJ or some other place I'd consider a "Hell Hole", and NOTHING that is good about NJ should ever enter your life again? Because you wanted to move to a smaller scale City that is booming at 15% growth, while your home state rusts away, you feel the licence to boot us out of town, or off the boards, if you must pay a penny to improve our lifestyles? Those of us that grew up here, know we are on the march toward greatness, and we're willing to pay the price so we don't repeat the mistakes of our Yankee cousins. Yet we should learn from the good in all places ever reaching for the top bar.
hahaha, if you become like a northern city then it is inevitable that you will repeat their mistakes! and then you'll have JAX become the hell hole like those you refer to.
It is the small minded jingoistic nonsense like yours that is a part of the problem here, not people who have moved here and have shunned the core.
Too bad you are so against people who don't share your views, spouting nonsense like "if you don't agree with my version just leave", well ockie whether you like it or not I'll leave when I damned well chose to and while I am here I will interject my opinions and ideas and if you don't like it, that is just too damned bad.
Now to correct your misunderstandings,
I am not saying that booting anyone out of town is the answer, too bad that's how you see it, too bad you have an all or nothing approach to things, too bad you are so intolerant of opinions that don't sound just like yours. the way I see it is that it is the urbanistas who are always whining about how bad things in JAX are.
some the usual complaints are that there's nothing to do, there's nowhere to go and no way to get there.
I suggested that if JAX is so horrible that all the energies being expended by y'all to try and turn JAX an "urban utopia" were used to figure out how y'all can just go to a place where your utopian concepts are already in place, you be able to just go there and live the hip urban lifestyle, ride the buses and subways, live life the way you guys think it should be lived, go, go find your dream place. Have a blast, see ya!
Now I am new to JAX and I have accepted it for what it is, it is far from perfect but the vast majority of people are ok with JAX and the surrounding areas just the way it is.
it would be quite presumptuous for someone like me to move here and then bark orders on how to change the place in order to suit my views of a perfect place.
JAX is what it is and I deal with it.
if I wasn't ok with JAX being what it is, I didn't have to locate here, I could have landed elsewhere.
That said there are things that can be down to enhance the viability of the core, but people like you who harbor such animosities for people who aren't in lockstep with your visions are a huge impediment to any improvements ever happening. Many if you need to grow up and learn how to effect real change, what you guys are doing will never work.
How many people at city hall talk to you? even you admit they view you as a kook, and if I were in their place I'd think the same. One day you'll grow up and learn how to play nice, then and only then will you have a shot at making things happen.
by the way what time does that ferry from NYC to AC leave?
You were SO RIGHT, the ferry quit running, so, currently there are two companies working to RESTORE this service, one is being completed in CT. it is HIGH SPEED HYDROPLANE and will soon operate to a Native American Casino NYC-CT, with AC to come later. The other is in the article below:QuoteFirm proposes high-speed ferry from NYC to Atlantic City
by The Star-Ledger Continuous News Desk
Tuesday June 24, 2008, 8:57 AM
A New York company is working to launch a high-speed ferry line that would run between Brooklyn and Atlantic City, according to a report in the Press of Atlantic City.
The report said Unitel Marine Services plans to charge $58 for regular round-trip tickets and $85 for VIP seating aboard the 600-passenger ferry.
I don't know APVBGuy, your like a run away earth worm on here. Doesn't really matter what anyone posts, you attack the messengers with all the self supporting bristle of an injection molded, stereotypical, smoggy reptile. I'm certain we have real differences, but if you would read the thread, you would see that I wasn't the "ista" that started this "ANTI" thread. Yet, there you go again, like a pre-lubricated gum ball machine with an over active diarrhea symptom. That I am guilty of being some kind of "kook" (your term) is just a smoke screen for your own vegetative nonsense. In fact, you fear that the City would listen to me? Come join me. I'm on first name basis with every politico and developer and serve on every darn board, advisory, and meeting in town.
Perhaps you are confused? You think as "The old Hippie" I'm in some drug induced time warp? NOT. I did however carry forward with one thing, I'll grow old, but I'll NEVER GROW UP. I'd much rather die as an enlightened, fun, joking neon beacon, then an irritated old scab, on an off centered wart.
Frankly, if you would ever take the time to be in civil dialog here, you might even lean that MY streetcar plan is PRIVATE and my financing ideas, which are proprietary, would pay us (all citizens or the Corporation) a profit BEFORE the first rail went onto the ties. But you've never given me or anyone else the chance to discuss it with you.
I'll make a public wager here, (legally no cash involved - just pride) that "If I helped a 3Rd world railroad come back from the dead, I sure a heck can put rail in Jacksonville." All we need is a little help from our friends.
So again from the Flaky Flank, to the Inconsiderate Cod, join us in our desire to make Jacksonville great. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/lightningandTRACTION-1-1.jpg)
Quote from: Coolyfett on September 29, 2008, 03:09:07 PM
what is your point, & why are you here?
my point is that I don't need anyone to tell me if I don't like it, leave.
that is complete BS
(http://www.purple-leaf.co.uk/Portals/22/Sunset%20Train.jpg)
QuoteI suggested that if JAX is so horrible that all the energies being expended by y'all to try and turn JAX an "urban utopia" were used to figure out how y'all can just go to a place where your Utopian concepts are already in place, you be able to just go there and live the hip urban lifestyle, ride the buses and subways, live life the way you guys think it should be lived, go, go find your dream place. Have a blast, see ya!
Who said we should leave? I just said if you were so unhappy with progress, I could suggest a few places where you could rust in peace.
"Ista's", "utopia", etc... just an observation from someone who has sat across a table from the little red star, for a guy that labels everything progressive as some sort of Communist take over of Jacksonville, you sure do have their lingo down pat. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/OcklawahaSignature.jpg)
Quote from: apvbguy on September 29, 2008, 03:34:07 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on September 29, 2008, 03:09:07 PM
what is your point, & why are you here?
my point is that I don't need anyone to tell me if I don't like it, leave.
that is complete BS
Who on here said that? You were the only post that I read saying anything close. I agree if someone said that, the yea it is BS, but I have never read a "if you don't like Jax then leave" on here, maybe I missed it. Are you for making Jax better or not?
Ouch, didn't intend on making this post a b#tch slap session. In fact after I reread my post, it was actually too harsh. Thats what happens when I read Marxist crap that was posted much earlier. I have no problem with living in a vibrant downtown. Four years I was in downtown Savannah and loved every minute of it. I certainly hope that our downtown can recover, I'm just too darn old to participate and put up with the crap that it would intail. I can remember going downtown with my parents and going to the banks and all the stores. But people live in the burbs for a reason. While I am having to live out of town for a time. I love working my gardens and having some open space when I get home. But Ock, don't even get me started on the people mover, and you need to hit european street, there is one at the beach.
Personally, I don't support the conspiracy crap. In my opinion First Baptist does not have the grip it once held downtown in the Lindsey days. I feel downtown is just under the impact of the economy, however, it would be a littlle better with better leadership.
QuoteBut Ock, don't even get me started on the people mover, and you need to hit european street, there is one at the beach.
Okay, Civil, I'll bite... What's at European Street? Haven't been there yet. Cool stuff, good food or SOCO? REBEL YELL?
As for the Skyway-People Mover, you do know, I'm the one that told them 30 years ago what they would do and how it would turn out don't you? That was me raising Jakes BP to the point where his ticker quit (not my intent BTW). I do see it now as a massive investment and white elephant. I've been doing my homework and very little needs to be done to make it viable - and I wouldn't stand for another $200 Mil boondoggle. So as long as we're both being Civil, please, let me hear your take on the Skyway... Be as constructive as possible, maybe I can use some of your thoughts.OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Seraphs on September 30, 2008, 06:47:21 PM
Personally, I don't support the conspiracy crap. In my opinion First Baptist does not have the grip it once held downtown in the Lindsey days. I feel downtown is just under the impact of the economy, however, it would be a littlle better with better leadership.
Good leadership is the key for Jacksonville until then nothing will change.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 30, 2008, 11:59:03 PM
QuoteBut Ock, don't even get me started on the people mover, and you need to hit european street, there is one at the beach.
Okay, Civil, I'll bite... What's at European Street? Haven't been there yet. Cool stuff, good food or SOCO? REBEL YELL?
As for the Skyway-People Mover, you do know, I'm the one that told them 30 years ago what they would do and how it would turn out don't you? That was me raising Jakes BP to the point where his ticker quit (not my intent BTW). I do see it now as a massive investment and white elephant. I've been doing my homework and very little needs to be done to make it viable - and I wouldn't stand for another $200 Mil boondoggle. So as long as we're both being Civil, please, let me hear your take on the Skyway... Be as constructive as possible, maybe I can use some of your thoughts.
OCKLAWAHA
Well Ock, not sure what the beach location is like at all. My place is on the westside, so I don't cross the ditch often, in fact the last time I went to jax beach was 15 years ago. But I can speak to the Riverside, San Marco and Beach bouleavard site. First its a unique jacksonville chain, founded by a wonderful man. It initally started at the regency square mall at a place call Dundersmidts. They specialize in sandwiches, very good ones I might add, a selection of soups, usually a very nice selection of draft beers, and a huge number or bottled one from all over the world. They support Bold City brewing, at least at the riverside spot. They have a large selections of european candies and some interesting deserts. The live music at the san marco location is fabulous, they have a great listeneing room where you can here local and traveling artists. The riverside site recycled an old gas station for its site. Look it up, being the history buff you are I think you would enjoy it.
The people mover, I refuse to use the term skyway, we both know the original name, hmmmmmmmm!!!! I'm going to be nice and say my vision includes a large quantity of high explovses and a huge block party afterwards, thats being nice.
It was actually called Mr Dunderbak's (mall chain).
(http://www.angelfire.com/fl/larryxf/MrDunderbaks.jpg)
Quote from: blizz01 on October 02, 2008, 11:47:03 PM
It was actually called Mr Dunderbak's (mall chain).
(http://www.angelfire.com/fl/larryxf/MrDunderbaks.jpg)
I stand corrected it was a few years and a lot of beers ago
Smidts, Baks, whatever - we can agree that it was indeed damn good & the progression to European Street was even better. :D
Quote from: blizz01 on October 02, 2008, 11:52:05 PM
Smidts, Baks, whatever - we can agree that it was indeed damn good & the progression to European Street was even better. :D
Amen!
Oh hell I was probably in Dunderbaks about 500 times before most of you were born. Had a cool deli and lots of German foods and gifts out at Regency? I think it was. I used to love that place, glad to hear it's been reincarnated.
Yeah, Civil, I know, I felt the same way about Horizontal Elevator we call the Skyway for many years. I'm so frustrated that it stopped us for consideration of Light Rail back when we would have been Portland or San Diego! But Jake knew all.... Sorry Boss Hogg, but you blew this one!
I put the remainder of my comments to Civil in the "WHAT IF THE CITY GAVE YOU THE SKYWAY" thread - with 4 part harmony.
OCKLAWAHA