The Jacksonville Civic Council's Plans For Downtown
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1059205955_HhHLU-M.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville takes a look at the Jacksonville Civic Council's recently released Northbank Redevelopment Task Force Final Report.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-feb-the-jacksonville-civic-councils-plans-for-downtown
There are a lot of components to this plan that I have concerns with. But for me and I've said it before and I'll say it again. Keep the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier separate from the other 40 plus acres that was Shipyards/Landmar. The Public Trust has just been crushed.
The DIA wants total and absolute control over the Entertainment District. That is why if the Pier was separate and allowed to operate immediately without this control I believe you would see an immediate cluster of organic activity that would be the envy of every Downtown merchant.
Got that off my chest.
So who on the civic council wants to paddle Hogans Creek or go under the TU? Do you think anyone attending a convention in Downtown Jacksonville would want to participate in that activity?
Lots of things to comment on but I will focus my reaction to one specific element that I believe is missing: transit.
In Section 2, Linkages to Adjacent Sites, an important solution is a streetcar line connecting the west side of Downtown (Performing Arts area) to the east side of Downtown (Sports Complex). This pedestrian accelerator would keep the activity at street level, promote mixed-use development and eliminate the need for so many parking garages. What I feel they failed to grasp is that increasing automobile use to and from these areas of Downtown works against the pedestrian-friendly environment they are promoting. Auto-centricity is too ingrained in our city’s decision making.
In Section 3, Proposed Implementation Agency, the talk is about creating a Development Improvement Agency (DIA) that would take governance of the Public Parking Division. I believe that consideration should be given for DIA to also take governance of the transit systems serving Downtown. Decisions regarding the Skyway and a new streetcar line would then be made from the perspective of accomplishing the goals of Downtown improvement. While I agree that we need more housing Downtown (as discussed in Section 2), I also feel that by providing connections to Downtown from the desirable urban neighborhoods of Riverside, San Marco and Springfield, we can accomplish many of the same goals â€" namely more activity Downtown.
I almost chocked when I read this, but:
The Civic Council's report recommends replacing the Hermiker Block with a parking garage?
The council also wants to take down a 19 story building for a 2 fl exhibition space of the same size we already have? Please tell me I am not the only one who feels this is not being thought out!
Yes this plan leaves a lot to be desired. Taking down that block would be ridiculous.
They want to mow down one of the most historic blocks in downtown for a parking deck and they are basically proposing to build nothing major on the old courthouse site? How about doing it all on the courthouse site? It's certainly big enough.
Originally I never thought they would need to move out of the old courthouse site, but hey you wouldn't have Jacksonville without a surface parking lot. Any group (or council) who wants to tear down more historic sites is not for this city in any why! I am all for Audrey, but I would rather have a mayor do nothing then appoint such a group of numbskulls! This council proposes nothing promising. I am willing to pay taxes for progress, but not for regress!
That would be criminal to tear down baywater square, especially when there are an abundance if surface lots or just plain abandoned lots right in the vicinity.
Replacing the Hermiker Block with a parking garage exemplifies everything that is wrong with downtown. For this reason, I'm certain it will eventually happen.
Parking...why do we need parking...there's noone downtown to park....i see nothing but the status quote in everyone running...noone has any real ideas that would help us. Noone wants to be downtown because it's cheaper to build a new building on the southside where all of your employees live..our problems started when our city government started handing out building permits to these massive complexes...we have killed ourselves for what....so a few judges and bankers'll make a few million....well..they've brought this city to its knees. the conservative leadership that was benifiting from this massive exidus from downtown now live in dearwood or julington creek and have no plans on coming back to downtown...maybe we should just bulldoze the entire downtown and turn it back into a cattle crossing again.
You know thats how i feel somrtimrs too that they all live on the southside do they don't really care you know? I know that's not totally try but I think it does probable have some truth!
Hey but you know i like the report supports Laura street trio plans and i guess the landing thing too but wrecking a nice looking historic building for a parking garage is crazy and id definitely protest that to the fullest!
Just tear down everything Downtown and build one gigantic multi-story parking garage.
I am also excited about the prospect of several "low and mid-rise office structures." After all - the office buildings downtown are already bursting at the seams with tenants! Am I right??
In all seriousness, I'd love to see something happen with the Laura Street trio. The rest of this plan, I'm not impressed with. And the tearing down of more historic buildings is the ONE PART of this plan that I think will 100% come true. Then they'll stop and do another study, and put in either surface parking or another patented Downtown Jacksonville Empty Lot.
My hope is that exposing things like the importance of historic preservation, this early in the process, will give everyone the necessary time to develop a project that seamlessly fits into the surrounding urban context. In decades past, we didn't have venues like MJ to present a different point of view. Now that we do, we should take advantage of it.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on February 14, 2011, 07:23:52 AM
I almost chocked when I read this, but:
The Civic Council's report recommends replacing the Hermiker Block with a parking garage?
The council also wants to take down a 19 story building for a 2 fl exhibition space of the same size we already have? Please tell me I am not the only one who feels this is not being thought out!
Boxing yourself in with an 80,000 square foot hall (basically what already exists at the Prime Osborn) on the courthouse annex site doesn't give room for expansion. I think more focus may have been placed on cost, due to the fact that the courthouse parking lot is actually a concrete platform built over the river. Nevertheless, if we're going to do this thing right, that parcel is the most logical place for an exhibition hall. If the concern is the cost of building on the parking lot, I'd suggest demolishing the courthouse building and constructing an initial exhibition hall with street level retail, in its place. A skywalk across Market Street could be constructed to directly tie it in with the Hyatt's meeting facilities. The current courthouse parking lot could then be beautified and left in place so that there would be no need for a parking garage. When the time comes to expand, that expansion could then take place right over the existing parking lot.
As for the Courthouse Annex building, perhaps we should consider keeping and retrofitting it into a mixed use structure (ex. residential, hotel, office, etc.) with retail and public space at street level, facing Bay.
Quotedue to the fact that the courthouse parking lot is actually a concrete platform built over the river.
Remember folks... that parking lot is basically a pier.
Lakelander - did you also feel that transit was a missing element? Any thoughts on how we can inject this idea into the mix?
lakelander wrote:
QuoteAs for the Courthouse Annex building, perhaps we should consider keeping and retrofitting it into a mixed use structure (ex. residential, hotel, office, etc.) with retail and public space at street level, facing Bay.
Perhaps everything except structural components could be removed from the first 2 floors and new space built out to the edges of the entire lot for exhibition space and retail space. Then the rest of the floors gutted and refurbished into meeting space and offices. I know nothing about construction. Just wondering.
What vision? A bunch of suburban developers and design-build companies propose....some more poured concrete structures and a parking garage. Give me a break. This is a plan that could be for a parcel of land out in the 'burbs.
I like the convention center idea but really how much parking does a CC need? This allows for something like 600 parking spots. Don't most people come to conventions from out of town by plane? Why the heck do we need this many spots? And leaving paved parking on the river?! It's like downtown Jax is living the lyrics to a Joni Mitchel song.
Quote from: dougskiles on February 14, 2011, 10:45:20 AM
Lakelander - did you also feel that transit was a missing element? Any thoughts on how we can inject this idea into the mix?
Yes, transit, bicycle and pedestrian network connectivity are huge missing elements. Especially with a plan that stretches out 1.6 miles. I think its time to move meetings on urban issues from board rooms to actual urban environments. The easiest way to inject connectivity is to take a site visit to a place where that form of connectivity exists. For example, if we want to talk pedestrian connectivity and its role on enhancing urban vibrancy, San Marco Square, Five Points, Shops of Avondale and even the main strip of SJTC are great places consider. Hendricks/San Jose (north of Baymeadows) is a decent example for bicycle connectivity between DT, an urban neighborhood and suburban development. For transit, you really need to visit a place like Charlotte (a pro could probably do it with the skyway) but you can tie it in locally as something that's needed to connect pedestrian friendly spots, considering most aren't walking longer than a 1/4 to 1/2 mile. We have to stop treating downtown and the urban core neighborhoods as separate items when they all are individual pieces that when mixed together, combine to become a salad (thanks Pastor Clinton Bush ;)).
and why destroy a 12 story building if it could be used for additional rooms (if needed) for conventions? All this seems to me is another version of a business park from the southside put downtown.
I know this is just wishful thinking but I'd love to see Jacksonville do a convention site somewhat along the lines of L.A. Live.(http://lalive.com/) I was in LA for an Adobe conference in August and everything you could want was right in that area. Multiple restaurants (places that stayed open for breakfast, lunch and dinner), nightlife, a gathering area for outdoor concerts and the conference site and Staples center was right across the street. The businesses at LA Live even give discounts for downtown residents. Though I know the site we're thinking of probably doesn't have as much open space available, we do have some of those things already in places. It's a matter of making the right choice to put the pieces together. As far as the rest of the study, I agree that we shouldn't tear down that block to construct a parking garage. At this point we have more parking than there's a demand for even if all parking was free. I would love to see the Laura Street Trio project come to reality though.
As I was reading the report, my jaw just dropped at the sheer amount of stupidity and ignorance of the people who proposed this motion.
More buildings?! There are over 40% of vacant spaces in the downtown alone! We got enough parking and workable spaces. We just need some bologona and cheese sandwiches to fill the warm and soothing of the souls for those who visit Jacksonville.
What happened to the great ideas by the students at SCAD's Architecture?
I personally have been to the MoMA in New York City. One of the exhibitions I remember so well from is the Rising Current. There were proposals by different groups in solving NYC's rising sea level that will flood areas permanent. These people came up so many innovative solutions that works in EVERY way from transportation to ecosystem to human sustainable area
Here is the link to that exhibition: http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/1031 (http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/1031)
Having an alternative, liberal, third party who can come in and see what our flaws and help by providing innovative solutions like the fantastic student at SCAD.
Current Jacksonville Politicians (the bad apples) just completely disgust me. Oh man, I need Ock's Band Aid right now.
-Josh
Why is land downtown still so expensive? It would seem like supply and demand would dictate that prices would fall.
W.T.F.?! Why are we taking steps backwards???
Seriously. UGH.
Okay, I'm not an expert...but if the Hyatt has already expressed interest in building an exhibit hall on that land, why not let them do it? That would then leave the entire courthouse and parking lot to build a new convention center in the (hopefully near) future.
Secondly - haven't we learned already that tearing down existing structures to build parking is a horrible idea???
Third - Turn the existing Shipyards project in to low-mid rise office space? Shouldn't we fill the existing vacant office space downtown first? That said, we can't even fill in the vacant land of the already low-mid rise office park we call LaVilla...so why continue to ruin the landscape with suburban office buildings?!?!??! Just hold off and perhaps when everything turns around, something similar to the Shipyards can move forward there!
This city has NO VISION for the future.
Quote from: Riverrat on February 14, 2011, 01:11:00 PM
This city has NO VISION for the future.
Or could it be too much vision.
Okay, here is what I wrote after my first reading of this report:
This report is a botched wire-hanger abortion; there is nothing redeeming about it at all, except if it can be used as an example of what not to do in the future. It's all regurgitated bullshit. It not only lacks vision and understanding, but it is regressive. If this is all what is considered by the mainstream to be "Jacksonville's best and brightest" has to offer, then I swear, if I could get what I paid for my house, I'd be outta here ... It is evident that a long time ago a small group of rapacious villains knowingly chose to maintain a stranglehold on all the power and wealth in this community at the price of its ultimate and obvious demise. The alternative, opening it up by allowing it to grow and prosper beyond their death grip, and thereby surrendering some of their control and foregoing whatever profits they could squeeze out of its decaying corpse, was just as callously tossed aside. In my opinion, they have chosen to smother the city itself.
But now, a little time has passed and the medication has kicked in, so I'm more reasonable. Not any happier, but more reasonable. Plus, I don't think bomb throwing is going to get me anywhere. And, of course, the report is not all bad. It just demonstrates such a glaring lack of vision or understanding of certain core concepts. Haven't they learned any of the lessons of the last 20-30 years? Where is the plan to increase urban core DENSITY? What about increasing MASS TRANSIT and PEDESTRIAN traffic? COMPLEMENTARY USES and SERVICES? CONNECTIVITY? I spend a lot of time every year doing business in New York City (where I'm from) and I can't tell you how many things New Yorker's take for granted that aren't even considered here. I know it's not fair to compare the two, and that's not my purpose. I only mention it to show that these elements can be combined to make a city flourish. But this will never happen with leadership that won't even acknowledge they exist, let alone how important they are. I had hoped for more. I am really disheartened - not surprised, just disheartened. I apologize if my original rant offended anyone.
Combine a new convention center near the Hyatt with a mass-transit corridor along Bay Street and you have a winning combination. Just don't demolish the historic structures.
Is there any way to send this tread to the Civic Council or the mayoral candidates before any more destruction is done on this great city's downtown? I am just afraid that it might be too late, but I guess your never know. I mean this site is one of the most revolutionary sites to change the thinking of Jacksonville, but it is the people from the Civic Council who needs to read these comments more then us!
Why not integrate the parking with one of the buildings? Couldn't there be ground level retail and parking on the upper levels of a building? Seems unecessary to demolish another historic building.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on February 14, 2011, 07:19:22 PM
Is there any way to send this tread to the Civic Council or the mayoral candidates before any more destruction is done on this great city's downtown? I am just afraid that it might be too late, but I guess your never know. I mean this site is one of the most revolutionary sites to change the thinking of Jacksonville, but it is the people from the Civic Council who needs to read these comments more then us!
I believe MJ has set up a meeting with Don Shea....add to this that many of us have been closely engaged with the Mayoral candidates.
I know this plan has flaws....but don't get too worked up...it is obvious from the write-up and the graphics that this is very preliminary.
Well that is a relief! Lets hope his council is up to revisions. Personally I think it is shortsighted in almost every way, but once historic buildings are destroyed they are not coming back.
(http://www.jldr.com/boogerhollowoh1.jpg)
Wanna wager on which "CITY" will win the race to "FIRST TIER?"
Where does this insanity end?
The way I read it:
The city is for automobiles, and we need to do everything in our power to make them comfortable on their visit to downtown.
One can never have too much pavement.
Pedestrians, bicycles and fixed route mass transit, have never crossed the mind of these people.
Let's build an amusement park, and let's make sure it has no theme, moreover, lets make sure it is too small to attract notice, and too bland to survive if it did.
Let's level more of the historic building fabric in downtown, nobody cares about history in this Bold New City of the South. Hell our ancestors must be embarrassed to admit to The Almighty that we are somehow their offspring.
How about a downtown pedestrian plaza that faces the center of the block, just think of the attractive service doors that will front on our streets.
The Shipyards should be a mixed use hotel-entertainment-retail space, something I happen to agree with, but then let's bypass the 600' pier, and completely fail to put any spark what-so-ever to make it unique attractor of patrons, but hey we could always open a "Super NAPA Parts Store."
Let's blast out another 70' feet of asphalt along the shore of the river, remember those cars need the views.
We should keep that riverfront parking, why would the City want to sell or lease land that many fortune 500 companies would jump on in a heartbeat with proper incentives.
Nobody cares about Metropolitan Park, Johnny already TOLD THE CHARETTE to make sure they propose to wipe the whole front half of the property clean so the city can have more stadium "flex space." Last year my sister-in-law traveled half way around the world to see "flex space," in Mongolia.
Ignore Hogan's Creek, never mind the similarities to the San Antonio River or the Oklahoma City Canal with tropical enhancements, its polluted you understand.
Let's talk more about the river, and do less. As long as we dynamite a few dozen more buildings so we can line that view with tin Lizzy's and rubber tires, the colors are stunning.
Let's be a "First Tier City," so let's build a new convention center the same size as the one in ROGERS, ARKANSAS! I understand Uncle Jed has come into some money and might have a hankering to mozy down to Florida... I can see it now, "The International Opossum Innards Cook Off at The Jacksonville Convention Hall."
I'm an admitted OLD HIPPIE, but I'm telling you people, I have never had drugs this good... What the hell are these guys smoking?
GOD JACKSONVILLE! PULL YOU F###IN HEAD OUT!
So much for being in line for that first tier, y'all know I come from "Okie Stock" but my kin folk in Bugger Hollow Arkansas have more class.OCKLAWAHA
Here comes the ole broken record again.......
ABSOLUTELY NO MORE WRECKING/DESTROYING ANYTHING HISTORIC. ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!
I think we could get a group of 6th graders to do a better downtown plan. This is friggin Ridiculous!
This is my humble open-source-Photoshop-alternative fix (click for full-size)
(http://i.imgur.com/ShLdBl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/ShLdB.jpg)
Images sources: Google Maps & Google Street View
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I'm a fan of the City Hall Annex. I have one of the souvenir books that were handed out at its grand opening, and though it is a product of its time, I think it's actually a sleek and elegant design. Also, why is there no love for the building behind the Herkimer Block? What is it called? It's lovely, and perfect for retail!
???? Im lost. Is this a joke? The main thing I have a problem with is the building another parking garage? That has pissed me off. I think I could live with everything else....to a degree.
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 14, 2011, 07:59:43 PM
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on February 14, 2011, 07:19:22 PM
Is there any way to send this tread to the Civic Council or the mayoral candidates before any more destruction is done on this great city's downtown? I am just afraid that it might be too late, but I guess your never know. I mean this site is one of the most revolutionary sites to change the thinking of Jacksonville, but it is the people from the Civic Council who needs to read these comments more then us!
I believe MJ has set up a meeting with Don Shea....add to this that many of us have been closely engaged with the Mayoral candidates.
I know this plan has flaws....but don't get too worked up...it is obvious from the write-up and the graphics that this is very preliminary.
Yeah I feel you. We will have a mayor and city council. If we get the right leadership in, some of these things will not fly.
Quote from: rainfrog on February 15, 2011, 01:08:40 AM
I'm a fan of the City Hall Annex. I have one of the souvenir books that were handed out at its grand opening, and though it is a product of its time, I think it's actually a sleek and elegant design. Also, why is there no love for the building behind the Herkimer Block? What is it called? It's lovely, and perfect for retail!
I love your sketch, Rainfrog. The building behind the Herkimer Block also dates back to the early 1900s. However, I didn't have the name or an image of it to put in the article the other day. Yet, you're right in that it should be preserved as well.
Exhibition HallFrom what I can tell, the civic council appears to believe dealing with the parking lot over the river is something expensive they don't want to do right a way. In this event, I'd suggest an initial 100,000 square foot exhibition hall on site of the current courthouse, with street level retail lining the southside of Bay. For the time being, they could keep the parking lot in place (reduces the need for a parking garage) and use it to expand the hall when the time comes.
City Hall AnnexI'm beginning to fall on the line of preservation in this case as well. Its solid and publicly owned, which would make an adaptive reuse project more feasible than building something of similar size from the scratch. The tower portion could be used for a mix of uses (residential, hotel, office, etc.) and the front could be demolished and replaced by retail/entertainment uses along Bay. On the surface, I'd say going this route would be cheaper than the civic council's layout, yet add more exhibition hall space, preserve room for future expansion and better integrate with the surrounding context.
If this was the plan I would be delighted. Great idea Lake!
I would like to share a link to a riverfront project being proposed in Pittsburgh. I really feel that Pittsburgh is a city getting it right in terms of it's downtown and infill:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11046/1125509-53.stm
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 14, 2011, 07:59:43 PM
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on February 14, 2011, 07:19:22 PM
Is there any way to send this tread to the Civic Council or the mayoral candidates before any more destruction is done on this great city's downtown? I am just afraid that it might be too late, but I guess your never know. I mean this site is one of the most revolutionary sites to change the thinking of Jacksonville, but it is the people from the Civic Council who needs to read these comments more then us!
I believe MJ has set up a meeting with Don Shea....add to this that many of us have been closely engaged with the Mayoral candidates.
I know this plan has flaws....but don't get too worked up...it is obvious from the write-up and the graphics that this is very preliminary.
I think we all understand that this is preliminary - that is why we're concerned. The destruction of historic buildings shouldn't enter the equation at all. When it pops up this early, it shows that it's already at the forefront of someone's mind.
"Y' know, if we just tore down that building, we could put in a parking garage!"
"Sounds great! Git 'ur done!"
SEVERAL DAYS LATER
"We got this block of historic buildings knocked down in record time!"
"Oh - you guys never got the call. The parking garage thing is on hold. There's no money for it in this year's budget. We got three bridges falling into the river that need patching."
"PAVE 'ER OVER, BOYS!"
I agree that a retrofit of the Annex is a good move. Look to the CSX building to see what a few color changes can do to modernize a building. Sure, it won't be an all glass modern building, but it will work just fine and it will save us millions. I agree that the first few floors need to interact with Bay street and should be completely redone. If the bottom of the Annex is done well, the courthouse site can be as minimal as possible as far as amenities go in order to maximize exhibition hall space. A couple bathrooms, a few staging areas, but otherwise uninterrupted space.
The most important thing with this whole development is maximizing retail and entertainment frontage on Bay street. Additionally, allow people to utilize convention center parking facilities for free after 8 pm, unless the event at the center requires every single space. Part of what has helped Bay street is the giant lot on the river.
In my opinion, the civic council is is a strong group of local business leaders, however no one would ever ask them to take a shot at cancer research and expect any tangible results. This is the group that needs to raise money, promote awareness and gain community support, not get involved in the molecular bioscience.
I can't see where this report does any good for anybody interested in downtown. There are better sets of ideas out there, better prototypes, and better forums (like the mayoral election and this blog). If we could ignore the civic council, maybe they would just go away and give the rest of us a chance to fix so many of the things that those people have helped to break over the past 20+ years.
Would it be possible to work with the civic council to teach them about the true issues holding downtown's growth back? Are they open to ideas of those who are better educated in this arena yet can't afford or aren't invited to join the group? If our business leaders take a stronger advocating position and leave the planning/implementation to those who understand urban environments and their historic growth and revitalization characteristics, we'll be well on our way to getting things moving in the right direction.
So how do we show them they've been eating the oatmeal that has led to the downtown environment we see today?
PARC Management wants to jazz up Downtown JaxQuoteA corridor of shopping, dining and entertainment between the Jacoby Symphony Hall and EverBank Field is one proposal to revitalize Downtown Jacksonville.
Jacksonville-based PARC Management LLC, which owns and operates theme parks throughout the U.S., proposed the mixed-use project after being approached by the Jacksonville Civic Council in November, said Randy Drew, PARC chairman and CEO.
The plan includes the SkyQuest, which Drew described as a “powered zipline.†Users would be put into a harness and “fly along a predetermined path†Downtown.
The proposal was included in a report that the council’s Northbank Redevelopment Task Force released Feb. 8.
The proposed development would cost more than $40 million, Drew said, and is “very preliminary.â€
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2011/02/14/parc-management-wants-to-jazz-up.html
Quote from: thelakelander on February 15, 2011, 11:32:38 AM
So how do we show them they've been eating the oatmeal that has led to the downtown environment we see today?
More like drinking the Cool-Aid.OCKLAWAHA
http://www.youtube.com/v/B5gp-bQPnYM?fs=1&hl=en_US
Think RIVERWALK Monorail...
But of course this would require the ability to THINK!
OCKLAWAHA
^ "My gas pedal just keeps going in circles!"
"If I wanted to use my legs, I'd ride the bus!"
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 15, 2011, 12:25:33 PM
Think RIVERWALK Monorail...
But of course this would require the ability to THINK!
OCKLAWAHA
Mooooooooooooooo!
-Josh
LOL @ Josh!
Forget about parking garages, unless there is viable development in, with or around them. Convention Center should go where the old Courthouse high rise presently is, not an exhibition hall! Let's also work on bringing new developments in which will not only make our downtown attractive, but also draw people downtown, and yes, this includes skycrapers but also parks, retail, and other commerce. Good proposal but not a super one. It could use some more better ideas and improvements, but at least someone is thinking.
HU
NO NO NO!!! Why only low to mid rise buildings in the shipyards, that's bullshit!!! We need HIGH rising buildings! When are you goddamn idiots planning these sites going to start thinking "big city" Quit selling all of us so short, pun full heartidly intended! Think big, tall, attractive not only nationwide but worldwide. Sky scrapers, not simple little three story storage areas.
Quote from: rainfrog on February 15, 2011, 06:05:00 PM
^ "My gas pedal just keeps going in circles!"
"If I wanted to use my legs, I'd ride the bus!"
Then for the love of God use them!
Besides, we need more riders to bulster strength against the will of JTA!
I would rather park half a dozen or so blocks from my destination and walk than pull into a parking garage.
If the art walk is any indication, I’m probably not the only one who feels this way.
Too tired to post all of the details now, but today I attended Preston Haskell's presentation at JCCI regarding the Civic Council's plans for the northbank. A lot of my questions were answered, and some concerns addressed.
I talked with Don Shea briefly after the presentation, and told him what a huge mistake I thought the Council made when they included a parking garage in place of the Harkimer block.
He agreed, and said I should expect that suggestion to disappear.
There was also significant talk about mass transit (even streetcars were mentioned) and extension of the skyway....
see....most reasonable people (which negates our Governor) will listen to sound ideas
agree
What's to be gained by engaging with the civic council? Would someone please explain that to me?
What if we could install:
* A micro transit system from the Jacksonville Landing, to the Hyatt/Convention Center, to the Shipyards.
* A major riverfront attraction.
* A FIRST IN AMERICA (not even the mouse has these toys) you know, actually lead in something!
* A micro transit system that allows the weakest person the opportunity of high speed rides, individually or entrain.
* A monorail that REALLY would pay for itself
* 60,000 riders daily
*An easy way to exercise with the near zero resistance of rail, and cycling is a base training activity with myriad benefits.
(http://www.greenprophet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Skyrower_Skybike.jpg)
The elevated mono-rail bike system with patent pending lane changing ability, allows riders to move quickly and efficiently around any environment.SRT many applications including:
- • Sustainable Developments
• Retirement Communities
• Special Needs Centers
• Tourist Attractions
• Fitness and Sport Clubs
• Mountain Ski Resort Towns
• Urban Environments
SRT is safe, fast, quiet to use for people of all ages, abilities and 100% carbon free. There is an unlimited potential for this SRT technology including:
- •Eco-Developments
•Crowded Cities
•Park Reserves
•Rough Terrain
•Beautiful Scenic Skylines
Benefits of SkyBike
- * Provides a new state-of-the-art fitness workout
* Adds variety, speed and excitement to a workout routine
* Ideal for seniors, people with special needs, or the visually impaired, as the SkyRider is securely harnessed into the SkyCapsule.
* No steering is needed
* Makes efficient use of indoor or outdoor space
* Environmentally friendlyâ€"the land remains virtually untouched
* Ideal for year-round useâ€"imagine exercising in a warm SkyCapsule with snow or rain falling around you.
* In warmer climates, your SkyCapsule is air-conditioned!
* Cycling builds strength and muscle tone
* Cycling increases muscle tone
* Cycling builds stamina
* Cycling improves cardio-vascular fitness
* Cycling eats up calories
* Cycling improves heart health
* Cycling improves coordination
* Cycling reduces stress
Benefits of the Skyrower
Arms, legs, chest, back, absâ€"even your mind. Your whole body gets a complete workout from the efficient, rhythmic motion of rowing. Rowing is such a great exercise in so many different ways.
- * Low-impact (easy on the knees and ankles)
* High calorie burner (because it uses so many muscle groups)
* Great for joint health (joints move through a wide range of motion)
* Upper body (completes the stroke)
* Lower body (the legs initiate the drive)
* Works the back and abs too!
* Superb aerobic fitness (great for cardiovascular fitness)
* Relieves Stress (for overall health and well-being)
* Inexpensive install and maintenance
* Capable of switches, side tracks, and can negotiate switches at high speed with a slight twist of the wrist
* People in a New Zealand theme park are paying $35 dollars apiece to ride a demo model around a circle
* A new American made monorail model is now available and it comes in both bicycle and rower configurations, or one can mix the two
* There is also a new American made cable Ropeway model with a two seat configurationOCKLAWAHA
Whoa!! That is insane...never seen anything like it ....... :)
That looks like fun. Any ideas for making that accessible (ADA)?
Hang it from the Hart Bridge and it would be the perfect way to get to a Jaguars game. Imagine the TV coverage during a prime time football game?
Quote from: Dashing Dan on February 17, 2011, 10:59:48 PM
What's to be gained by engaging with the civic council? Would someone please explain that to me?
well among other things, many of them are the power brokers in this City
Quote from: stephendare on February 18, 2011, 09:43:56 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 18, 2011, 09:38:40 AM
Quote from: Dashing Dan on February 17, 2011, 10:59:48 PM
What's to be gained by engaging with the civic council? Would someone please explain that to me?
well among other things, many of them are the power brokers in this City
But more importantly. Engagement is something that everyone deserves. We do all share this city together, after all, and I can vouch for the fact that the conversation has been dominated by well meaning but terribly wrong ideas over the years.
I cannot help but think that given the right information, most people are better equipped and generally end up making better decisions.
But this doesnt just extend to the Civic Council. Weve also engaged many many other groups large and small, powerful and just beginning over the past five years, and the process has always ended up being mutually beneficial, even when we don't agree.
tufsu and stephendare: Thanks for your replies. Let's hope for the best and see what happens.
If bay st becomes a two way street entirely, the middle lane can be used for skyway pylons. Near the POCC the support pylons are small. They may even be small enough to run them down the middle of Bay st! If we can run the skyway over Bay st and put a station next to the current city hall annex, also over the middle of Bay st. (as one stop on the way ultimately to end at the sports complex) There can be park n ride style parking garages around the current POCC. If and, God I hope, when Amtrack comes back to that location, people will have the option to ride the train into town. If not, they can park and ride the skyway to that area.
I attended the JCCI luncheon and listened to Preston Haskell's presentation re Downtown Redevelopment. There were very good arguments made for redeveloping downtown, for increasing downtown residents, and for construction of a convention center near the Hyatt. These are good things. Questions were asked about public transportation; reply: other organizations are dealing with that. And someone pointed out the proposed demolition of an historic building; Preston backed away from that one, saying it was just an idea. Hopefully a dead idea.
But, without mass transit (not just a bus) this plan is destined for failure. Wouldn't it be fun to be able to hop on a streetcar operating along Bay Street between Central ASE station and the Sport Complex! I'd do that.
We all know that a streetcar line down Bay is a no-brainer, but JTA and the COJ apparently have no brain.
Quote from: Mattius92 on February 24, 2011, 12:24:28 AM
We all know that a streetcar line down Bay is a no-brainer, but JTA and the COJ apparently have no brain.
When enough people in Jacksonville demand it, we will get it. It is not their fault we don't have it. It is our fault.
Quote from: tayana42 on February 23, 2011, 08:54:28 PM
Questions were asked about public transportation; reply: other organizations are dealing with that.
This is a disappointing answer. Assuming he meant JTA, they aren't dealing with it because organizations like the Civic Council aren't demanding it.
In 11 hours
Presentation by civic council members on Downtown.
Put on by Impact Jax
5:30-7:00pm
Skyline Cafe 42nd Flr Bank of America Tower
50 N. Laura St. Jax
There will also be a JCCI study released shortly called Recession, Recovery, and Beyond.
I'm going to try and make this one tonight.
On a side note. Anyone want to kayak under the Times Union building? Under the Hyatt parking lot? Hogans Creek and when we pop out into the St. Johns River our American Heritage River we can paddle a little further and look at our Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier?
I will be there tonight